Patterico's Pontifications

8/16/2008

Open Thread on Rick Warren’s Interview of Obama and McCain

Filed under: 2008 Election — DRJ @ 7:18 pm



[Guest post by DRJ]

I saw part of the Warren interview and recorded the rest to watch later, but I thought it was a superb format that revealed a lot about both candidates.

Feel free to discuss it here.

UPDATE: For those who missed the interview itself, Ann Althouse has an excellent live-blog.

— DRJ

169 Responses to “Open Thread on Rick Warren’s Interview of Obama and McCain”

  1. It seemed tilted in McCain’s favor from the get go. Not because of any bias or unfairness afforded by the format, but rather by the seriousness of the subject matter. Obama simply isn’t cut out for any venue that requires the ability to come across as wise or even competent.

    ccoffer (f7cac6)

  2. They’re both full of it.

    David Ehrenstein (699cff)

  3. I’m not familiar with the issue, Warren asked about this topic. In the clip I saw, he didn’t seem to call BHO on what some say is a lie; in fact, Warren seemed to take his description of the issue at face value.

    I’m going to guess that most of the rest of it was like that, and let me suggest that conducting debates and forums in the style of the SovietUnion is not the way to do things.

    If anyone wants to do a public service, ask one of these questions. You’ll even make $100. And, in fact, WND might even pay you $1000 throught their own offer. And, in either case, you’ll make the MSM look very, very bad.

    TLB (078238)

  4. The Networks should take a lesson from Warren, he asked far better questions than they ever do in debates.

    McCain gets a big WOW! He knocked it out of the park. And the audience thought so too.

    Obama was ambiguous and was putting people to sleep. He was awful.

    I like the format. But, it was definitely McCain’s night all the way.

    Sara (3337ed)

  5. I felt it was a format that should be used often.They both showed there true self, and we were able to form our own opinion on there ansers.

    BOB (56a0a8)

  6. Obama was pretty good, but the old guy was head and shoulders above the Dem’s presumptive nominee. But, then, the comparison isn’t really fair. The Dems sent a boy to do a man’s job.

    Ropelight (42c46d)

  7. Well, the “old guy,” who has been keeping up a grueling campaign schedule looked a lot more animated and vibrant than the young guy who just got back from a laid back vacation.

    Sara (3337ed)

  8. They’re both full of it.

    — A pronouncement from the expert.

    Icy Truth (784175)

  9. Obama on abortion …

    “answering that question with specificity … is above my pay grade.”

    Well he got that right.

    This was equivalent to Obama voting “present.”

    Neo (cba5df)

  10. #3 – TLB

    let me suggest that conducting debates and forums in the style of the SovietUnion [sic] is not the way to do things.

    — The format was one of asking a set of prepared questions related to the issues that concern evangelicals the most, and then allowing the candidate a generous amount of time in which to answer each as he saw fit. Challenging the answers was not a part of the program. They were asked the same questions in the same order. That is not the same thing as a forum in a totalitarian country, where the questions are geared to make the respondent look good; especially since, with a couple of exceptions, these questions were not ‘softballs’.

    Warren asked McCain about the biggest moral failing of his life, and we all know that put him in the position of having to speak publicly about the breakup of his first marriage.

    He asked Obama to state clearly, specifically, and at length his position on abortion . . . something that, as with McCain on the moral question, put Obama in the position of either attempting a flip-flop or telling the truth — at the risk of alienating many in the audience.

    Icy Truth (784175)

  11. I suspect Obama’s battle axe doesn’t think anything is above HER pay grade. Bambi’s going to have hell to pay when he gets back home.

    BTW, did he take her with him to Hawaii, or was it boys only?

    Ropelight (42c46d)

  12. I had my doubts for the first segment, (no follow ups on vague answers) but then I saw that the questions were really about belief systems rather than policies.

    Either Obama is an empty suit or he is something that he really, really, really doesn’t want to talk about in front of an audience. I suspect it’s the latter–can a Marxist and moral relativist get elected president? America, open your eyes.

    Patricia (f56a97)

  13. “answering that question with specificity … is above my pay grade.”

    — Just to be clear (he says, channeling Obama), that was in answer to the question of ‘when does a baby get human rights’. And that answer was terrible; he punted. He showed a little more courage in defending his support of “a woman’s right to choose”. Still the totally wrong position, of course.

    My point to TLB was that with Warren a question guaranteed to make Obama dance like that, there was no need to press him on his position with a directed followup question. Just throwing out the initial question and then sitting back while Obama squirms like a worm wriggling on a hook told the audience all they needed to know. The questions weren’t any less revealing without a confrontational moderator.

    Icy Truth (784175)

  14. correct to: Warren asking a question

    (yeah, and “squirms” should be “squirmed”; guess I picked the wrong week to stop shooting smack)

    Icy Truth (784175)

  15. I liked the format, although I though Warren was maybe too chummy with both candidates. Very little attacks on the other; although Obama did avoid moany questions.

    He did particularly poorly (and McCain did particularly well) on the opening “Name 3 wise people, and whom would you have as advisers.

    Obama: My wife, my grandmother, and blah blah blah. Does he really think that all wisdom comes from his family? Chauncy Gardener would have done better.

    McCain: Gen Petraus (victory from defeat), John Lewis (D-GA) (civil rights leader), Meg Whitman (E-bay). Home run.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  16. As I posted off-topic in another thread, the highlight (read: low point) for me was when Warren asked Obama the “Which Supreme Court justice would you NOT vote to confirm?” question. Given such choices as Roberts or Alito or cattolico eccellente Scalia (yeah, merci beaucoup on that, mother f-er!), it was a bit stunning to see bama_bama_Obama_banana_fana_fo_fama_be_by_bo_bama_Obama make a beeline for Clarence Thomas, the off-the-reservation-of-victimhood Negro (according to the Left). If there were any lingering doubts as to Obama_Lama_Bama_Loo’s stance on welfare and affirmative action, that answer settled the issue: he’s for as much of them as he can get away with doling out.

    Icy Truth (784175)

  17. I missed the beginning with Obama. Did he really pick Granny? the . . . Wait a minute! This explains everything. He was really calling his grandmother a “typical wise person” before. Well, this is great! All is forgiven.

    Icy Truth (784175)

  18. They’re both full of it

    Did you even watch the interviews? John McCain answered each question clearly and seemed to know what he believed, which allowed him to answer more questions. I’m still not sure what Barak Obama thinks, other than I should pay more taxes.

    What does be humble before evil mean?

    If less than $150,000 a year income is middle class and over $250,000 is rich, what defines between $150,000 and $250,000?

    Tanny O'Haley (5f0e11)

  19. Icy Truth #14:

    (…guess I picked the wrong week to stop shooting smack)

    There is never a wrong week to stop shooting smack.

    Trust me on this one.

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  20. America open your eyes be wise,these are all one believe system questions and if we want to rule the world by freeing all mankind from terror,poverty,oppression ETC.We must elect a broader minded candidate and not just somebody that want to rule with one believe system and that is why president Bush and Dick cheney are the worst persons that ever manage those positions and that is what is going to distroy this beloved country the last hope for mankind.

    jude simon (ebf305)

  21. Pappy McSame knows nothing but war. Totally 1984.
    He will take the youth of our nation and send them to die in a new cold war which only exists in paranoid neocon minds.
    Last night was a lynching by well dressed men, women, children, and CNN. In the name of God no less. Shame on them all.
    “Separation of church and state”-period!

    Abbydaddy (a9397e)

  22. Last night was a lynching by well dressed men, women, children, and CNN. In the name of God no less. Shame on them all.

    The thing I love about this is an audience that gave Obama a standing ovation at the end is now his supporters’ definition of a hostile crowd and an interview by a personal friend of his is apparently a “lynching.”

    Dude, you guys have gone well beyond parody into a region that’s not clearly defined yet.

    I actually didn’t think he did that bad, it’s just that McCain did much better. However, seeing how upset you guys are at this – maybe he did screw up.

    Anon (db8e0c)

  23. For example, what would you think ’bout a repeat “interview” on Democracy Now? With Michael Moore asking the questions in front of a left wing crowd. I think it would be just as unfair.
    Again: complete separation of church and state.

    Abbydaddy (a9397e)

  24. With Michael Moore asking the questions in front of a left wing crowd. I think it would be just as unfair.

    Abby, again, Rick Warren is a personal friend of Barack Obama’s. For that matter, the guy’s a pretty moderate one at that – on right wing websites before the debate we were complaining about him being too much of a touchy-feely liberal.

    In any case, they gave you’re guy a standing ovation and you’re complaining about a lynching. Did you even watch it?

    Anon (db8e0c)

  25. (#20 Jude Simon)

    Jude, there are a lot of ways to really screw up a country, but only a couple of ways to have a country with a strong economy and lots of individual freedom. The more you have in the way of private property, rule of law, less regulation, fewer and less taxes, the better that country is a place to live. Oh,and lest I forget, no laws designed to enforce religious dogma, which one finds in Muslim countries. Freeing people from terror, poverty and oppression is not about giving their governments money. It is not about a candidate with only “one belief system”, it is about laws and institutions that protect the individual from the government and other members of the populace.

    It isn’t about having an open mind, it isn’t about being sensitive, it is about providing a political and economic environment where people can persue their own happiness without fear of physical violence and government corruption.

    The above systems exist in the Hong Kong, US, Australia, Japan,Taiwan, Canada, to a lesser extent in the EU, less in most of the Pacific Rim countries, including China, and except Israel, not at all in the Middle East.

    The important thing is to learn from history, experience (vicarious and otherwise) and your own eyes. Obama is a Carter redux, this time with a post modern slant. We have a long history of learning what doesn’t work….your comment implies that you would like to try all of the previously failed policies again, only this time with feeling.

    Maybe it is people like Robert Mugabe, Putin, Kim Jong Il, the Saudi Monarchy, Muslims every where, Hugo Chavez, Castro who should have “open minds”. Of couse, I imagine that sort of idea is too outside the box for you to consider.

    Jack (d9cbc5)

  26. Yeah I watched the whole thing. I’m not trying to be a lefty troll on here, I just followed a link from CNN.

    And CNN just did this interview or whatever it was to beat out the other msm news channels. I think we always feel our personal candidate is being mistreated no matter what. I gotta go to work now, but I’ll bookmark this site. Maybe talk more. Thx for the conversation Anon.
    Peace be with you.

    Abbydaddy (a9397e)

  27. Nicely said, Jack.

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  28. As biased as the framing was for the setting of this Q & A session was for the candidates, I must say Rick Warren asked some pretty good questions. Unfortunately due to the framing of the setting, they were trying to be more Christian than the other… which always gives the false impression of one candidate faking their Christianity to be fodder for skeptics.
    I simply wish we separated church from state… when did being Christian become a prerequisite for being President? I think the direction the US is heading in will respect a future presidential candidate, even if he was atheist. No one candidate should try to have to curry favor from one group of crazy people who believe in an invisible man high in the sky, afterall – it’s all in your biased filled susceptible/gullible head anyway.

    Daniel (0dc70c)

  29. The interview was interesing. Check out some good analysis here

    http://www.techbanyan.com/972/rick-warren-obama-mccain/

    summer (71f2ff)

  30. Again: complete separation of church and state.

    Territorial sovereignty for churches then? And no talking about society on church property ever?

    Pablo (99243e)

  31. Well, now we know the “secular humanist” perspective (again).
    They couldn’t make Marxist-Leninism work, so all they can do is attempt to destroy Freedom wherever it exists.

    Another Drew (688ffe)

  32. Daniel – Being christian is not a prerequisite for getting elected president, but if 80% of Americans self-report as christians, doesn’t it make sense that the candidates talk to christian audiences. I fail to see why common sense throws agnostics and atheists into rages.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  33. Abbydaddy –

    Welcome! Here is how you can avoid being perceived as a left-wing troll: Whatever your opinion is on a particular issue, be willing to acknowledge the facts of the matter. For example, you wrote “[McCain] will take the youth of our nation and send them to die in a new cold war which only exists in paranoid neocon minds.” Now, keeping in mind that — unless you count the casualties from satellite battles in Korea and Vietnam — we won the Cold War without firing a shot, there are three problems with that statement: 1) It implies the re-institution of a draft; 2) It says that McCain is a NeoCon; 3) Putin’s actions are out there for everyone to see.

    Pappy McSame knows nothing but war. Totally 1984.
    — The allegation that McCain will plunge us into a state of ‘perpetual war’ is just that, an allegation. McCain wants us to be in a perpetual state of readiness to do the right thing, which includes preventing vulnerable allies from being overrun by tyrants.

    Last night was a lynching by well dressed men, women, children, and CNN. In the name of God no less. Shame on them all.
    — Refraining from the use of grossly over-the-top rhetoric will also help you avoid the “troll” label. Children engaged in a lynching? As Anon, who is a regular poster here, pointed out, Obama considers Rick Warren to be a friend. They were asked the same questions. The questions were derived from the major concerns evangelical voters have about the issues.

    complete separation of church and state.
    — It’s one thing to say it; it makes for a concise bumper-sticker sentiment; but here is an opportunity for clarity and debate: Please define exactly what you mean by that, and how it relates to freedom & liberty.

    Icy Truth (612a80)

  34. Jack, I couldn’t have said it any better–Thanks for the dose of rationality.

    dorothy (f74228)

  35. Icy Truth: I am not a well versed debater, so, I have to answer your question with a question: what if the interviews were conducted by Michael Moore? I use Michael as an ‘over the top’ individual to make the point that objectivity is never pure. In no way do I consider him an objective interviewer. But to have an evangelical pastor ask the questions is similar in that it is far less objective than even the msm attempts at objectivity. If the msm do try at all.
    The right claims the msm gives the left a pass, and the left the same. Each with ‘evidence’ to back up their claims.
    Last night’s show was either over the separation of church and state line, or the toes standing a hair width away from that point.
    I will admit lynching was a strong word. In the end I stand by: the whole exercise was a ‘scoop’ by CNN putting “the 2 candidates on the same stage for the first time”. They beat MSNBC, and FOX for the first such show. If that was not the case CNN would certainly have waited until after the olympics for better ratings. And today they are splashing the sound bytes all over, and advertising a rerun.
    The above is what the show’s bottom line was about.
    Unfortunately..

    Abbydaddy (a9397e)

  36. daleyrocks –

    This agnostic, who watched (almost) the entire Saddleback forum, is feeling rage over being lumped in with atheists.

    Atheists don’t believe, and claim to know it as an undeniable fact; therefore denying the possibility.
    Agnostics don’t believe, but also acknowledge that we don’t know; therefore, we do not deny the possibility.

    Since our take on the issue is not absolute we are not threatened by the beliefs of others. We peacefully coexist. Since the position of atheists is absolute they do feel threatened by the possibility of finding out that ‘everything they know is wrong’ (to paraphrase an ancient comedy album title).

    And of course you are completely correct; there is no reason why a candidate should not speak to a gathering of religious people. Someone should explain to the Daniel’s of this country (do you think he ever forgave his parents for giving him a biblical name?) that Christians are voters too.

    Icy Truth (612a80)

  37. 36. daleyrocks – Comment by Icy Truth — 8/17/2008-not sure how it works but: an agnostic also says “show me proof”, Raised in a get down holy roller church, 40+ years later I say “show me proof”.

    Abbydaddy (a9397e)

  38. I have not been impressed with Rick Warren, and for that reason didn’t watch the show last night (Also I had better things to do such as take a walk and smoke a cigar), but I have to say that, having read the accounts of how it went, I am more impressed with him. I expected a sloppy TV evangelist exhibition and was wrong.

    Left wing trolls are easy to spot. They go to right wing or moderate sites and spout off with outrageous comments.

    Mike K (155601)

  39. Abbydaddy –

    what if the interviews were conducted by Michael Moore?
    — The questions would be in the form of accusations; “What are you going to do for the poor and disadvantaged of this nation; those that previous administrations have ignored?” – and – “How can the richest nation on Earth not provide health care to all of its citizens?” etc. As opposed to Pastor Warren’s questions, which were in the form of “This issue is important to my parishioners and myself. What is your position on the issue?”

    I use Michael as an ‘over the top’ individual to make the point that objectivity is never pure. In no way do I consider him an objective interviewer.
    — With all due respect, that’s a statement of the obvious on both points.

    But to have an evangelical pastor ask the questions is similar in that it is far less objective than even the msm attempts at objectivity.
    — And your point is what? that the general public is too stupid to realize this? that there needs to be an objectivity meter employed during the election cycle? (How do you test the objectivity of the person who adjusts the meter?) As noted, the entire forum was subjective in that the questions were limited to, and worded in such a way as to reflect the concerns of Evangelical voters. If a candidate wants their votes, that candidate will be willing to take their questions and address their concerns.

    The right claims the msm gives the left a pass, and the left the same. Each with ‘evidence’ to back up their claims.
    — I think most of us know which claim is more credible.

    Last night’s show was either over the separation of church and state line, or the toes standing a hair width away from that point.
    — Again, I ask you to clearly define exactly what you mean. Are you saying that a sitting US Senator should not be allowed to appear at a religious forum? that to do so violates the 1st Amendment? Let us review exactly what it says: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion … Two Senators do not constitute “Congress”; no law was made. Now, if 51 Senators were there all at the same time, and every single one of them stood up and said “I am here in an official capacity”, then you would have an argument to make . . . except that there still would have been no law made, even if 50%+1 of the House of Representatives and the President & Vice-President were standing there with them.

    the whole exercise was a ’scoop’ by CNN
    — I’m guessing that CNN picked up the broadcast, which I believe was officially broadcast by DAYSTAR, because – go figure – it featured the two candidates for POTUS. Slightly important, that.

    They beat MSNBC, and FOX for the first such show. If that was not the case CNN would certainly have waited until after the olympics [sic] for better ratings. And today they are splashing the sound bytes all over, and advertising a rerun. The above is what the show’s bottom line was about.
    — Keeping in mind that, as I said above, CNN picked up DAYSTAR’s broadcast … uh, what’s your point? CNN, which is not an NBC network and therefore has no primary access to Olympic coverage, broadcast an important event for the ’08 campaign. So?

    Icy Truth (612a80)

  40. #37 – an agnostic also says “show me proof”

    — Show me proof before I will believe, YES. Both agnostics and atheists can make that statement.

    Show me proof, otherwise I will deny the possibility, NO. Only atheists can make that statement.

    Icy Truth (612a80)

  41. Icy Truth: I am not a well versed debater, so, I have to answer your question with a question: what if the interviews were conducted by Michael Moore? I use Michael as an ‘over the top’ individual to make the point that objectivity is never pure.

    Moore is the antithesis of objectivity. Moore is also a lair. It would never have happened with Moore because no candidate would be foolish enough to participate in such a charade.

    The question is silly. What if it were conducted by Hulk Hogan?

    Pablo (99243e)

  42. In the end I stand by: the whole exercise was a ’scoop’ by CNN putting “the 2 candidates on the same stage for the first time”. They beat MSNBC, and FOX for the first such show. If that was not the case CNN would certainly have waited until after the olympics for better ratings. And today they are splashing the sound bytes all over, and advertising a rerun.
    The above is what the show’s bottom line was about.

    For CNN, that’s true, because they are an advertising supported television network. For McCain, Obama, Warren and those who watched to hear the candidates speak, well, they don’t care about the ratings/revenues game.

    Are you CNN, Abby? Do you think you’re talking to CNN?

    Pablo (99243e)

  43. Abbydaddy, first of all, anyone who calls McCain “McSame” is showing a complete and utter ignorance of McCain’s history in political life. Great way to show you really don’t have any idea bout him.

    Secondly, if you think asking two candidates the same questions is a “lynching”, you need to learn what a dictionary is used for.

    And lastly, if you don’t like the discussion of religion, then tell your favorite candidate to quit bringing it up and politicizing churches.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  44. AbbyDaddy – Also keep in mind that neither candidate was compelled to participate in last night’s forum. Apparently both thought it was a worthwhile use of their time. As is customary, format details would have been negotiated and agreed upon by both campaigns in advance. Obama has certainly avoided appearances with McCain at other venues where he may not have felt welcome, such as military bases, so calling it a lynching is somewhat intellectually dishonest.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  45. what the hell is “complete separation of church and state”? does that mean everyone involved in gov’t should be secular and not participate in any religious events? do you really think that is what the founders meant when they wrote an amendment guaranteeing religious freedom?

    chas (e36377)

  46. I think Abbydaddy just likes using the word lynching when referring to Obama. Of course it was a racial attack on him. He’s black, you know. What else could it be?

    Pablo (99243e)

  47. Icy Truth: no, the forum wasn’t like something from the SovietUnion. It wasn’t in Russian for one thing. They weren’t extolling socialism for another. And, for the rest, let me get back to you, I’m sure I can find some other differences.

    BTW: it looks like Rick Warren (someone I’d never heard of before this) let BHO lie to him, and in a field that Warren should be familiar with.

    TLB (62c4c5)

  48. Separation of church and state defined:

    The unalterable dogma that Democrats may embrace any nitwit nostrum imaginable and to insist it be universally accepted as scientific fact. (example is man-made global warming)

    The corollary inference allows Democrats to dismiss anything already proved, including the Laws of Science, which conflicts with their political agenda.

    ipse dixit!

    Ropelight (42c46d)

  49. TLB – That’s correct. Warren allowed Obama to lie to him; and I’m sure that many voters — not just you — picked up on that. In other words, instead of Abbydaddy’s vision of a lynching, what Warren did instead was hand the Senator a rope and allow Obama himself to tie the knot and leap from the platform all on his own.

    Icy Truth (612a80)

  50. Did someone here say that CNN got a scoop on FoxNews?
    It sure looked to me that Fox picked up the same feed that was on CNN, and on C-SPAN, and a couple of others.
    Or, perhaps the importance of the message overpowered DirecTV’s satellite, and just pushed the signal everywhere.
    (((take off tin foil hat now)))

    Another Drew (688ffe)

  51. Warren wasn’t asking any follow ups or challenging the answers of either guy. That’s just the format. Of course Obama was going to lie to him and not be called on it. I could have told you that before the debate started.

    It was a great forum anyway. I wish we could have a dozen more. And I for one would not object to Hulk Hogan moderating… OH YEAAAAH.

    Juan (4cdfb7)

  52. I am shocked to read all this retoric about the Rick Warren Debate. This only shows the differences we all have out here. We did not need to be reminded, we know it. If some of those answers were from “Christians”, we need to be reminded again, to be civil tongued. For those who are of other faiths , or none, it would not hurt you be less rude.

    Regina (811980)

  53. Baracky manages to use more words to say nothing than anyone in history. I thinks he seems stiff in these things, because he has to think about what he wants us to think he believes, rather than just being who he is.

    And I have held my tongue, but the likes of Regina and abby are painful.

    Racists

    JD (5f0e11)

  54. Obama: My wife, my grandmother, and blah blah blah. Does he really think that all wisdom comes from his family?

    He’s afraid of Michelle. Wouldn’t you be?

    Patricia (f56a97)

  55. Patricia #54:

    Wouldn’t you be?

    I am.

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  56. Where does this fear of Michelle Obama come from?
    Sounds irrational to me.

    David Ehrenstein (699cff)

  57. David @ 55 – From the same people willing to believe any conspiracy theory under the sun involving Republicans I’d say that is absolute, definitive, ironclad proof that McCain ripped off Solzhenitsyn for the POW story.

    It’s too bad you gobble this stuff up so easily. I’ll bet next thet’re going to say McCain never even served in Vietnam.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  58. I am enjoying the fact that the Obama campaign is floating the rumor that McCain did so well at the Saddleback event because he was either tipprd in advance by Warren what questions would be asked or because he was not actually in a cone of silence while Obama was speaking and he could hear Obama’s responses. One of the Obama campaign’s usual mouthpieces, Andrea Mitchell, was spouting this theory on NBC this morning. Floating garbage rumors like this to excuse the comparative weakness of your candidate’s performance is not a sign of strength from the Obama campaign.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  59. “Conspiracy”? I thought that story was funny. Can’t you people appreciate a joke?

    “Hey — it’s a joke!” (copyright Ann Coulter)

    David Ehrenstein (699cff)

  60. I think that Rick Warren should have invited Ted Haggard to ask questions with him. Should have also asked McCain why he would pick an economic adviser that was responsible for the Enron Crisis, Mortgage Crisis, and the fake gas shortage that has raised gas to $4 + a gallon. Don’t tell me supply and demand…because when is the last time you went to the gas station and they were out of gas. Supply and demand and drillig are not the answer. If you think so read the Department of Energy Information Reports. Don’t be foolish…or like Obama says…don’t be proud of your ignorance.

    stu (1ed35a)

  61. “why he would pick an economic adviser that was responsible for the Enron Crisis, Mortgage Crisis, and the fake gas shortage that has raised gas to $4 + a gallon.”

    Stu – That must be one powerful adviser. I thought only Bush was responsible for that much bad shit! Can you educate the rubes here how one person, apart from Bush of course, can do all that damage?

    Pretty please.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  62. stu – Thank you for enlightening us. That was a barrel full of teh stoopid.

    JD (5f0e11)

  63. By stu’s standards, Warren should have invited Farrakhan to question Baracky, and should have asked him about having direct ties and associations with an unrepentant domestic terrorist.

    stu – that sound you hear. It is the rest of the world, laughing at you. I suspect you are familiar with it.

    JD (5f0e11)

  64. Yes a barrel full of stoopid is what you get when you give away America’s natural resources so they can be sold to China and India. Besides calling me stoopid JD…why don’t you call me a marxist or unpatriotic. That seems to be the number 1 tactic of the right. I will put my years in uniform up against anyones. Oh yeah…since I am soooo so stoopid, I will match my education to your high school ed any time.

    stu (1ed35a)

  65. Hmmm….since when is Farrkahan a part of Obama’s political team? Never… JD the only people who are laughing are the Oil companies, the speculators and the energy executives who have been stealing money from the American people because of McCain’s good buddy. Also… I know the right likes to call Obama a muslim because they can’t get away with the N-word anymore. JD…make sure you have your bumper sticker that states “they don’t call it the white house for nothin” I bet that one just cracks you up.

    stu (1ed35a)

  66. 59.

    …because when is the last time you went to the gas station and they were out of gas.

    That would be last Friday.

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  67. Here’s a Newsbusters’ link on the Andrea Mitchell interview mentioned by daleyrocks #58.

    DRJ (a5243f)

  68. Could they have been out of gas due to bad supply chain management.

    stu (1ed35a)

  69. stu – No reason to get snippy because of one racist, misogynystic, misanthropic, homophobic commenter. I denounce you JD. Your comments do not help put fresh fruit on the Obama’s table.

    I await your explaination of how one main, now McCain’s adviser can create such disaster, stu. Surely you are not employing the commonly overused tactic of the left, hyperbole.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  70. #67…
    No, that couldn’t be right.
    It must have been Cheney had a brain-cramp.

    Another Drew (688ffe)

  71. Dalyrocks, here is a little on Phil Graham and the Enron crisis. I urge you to look into more info on how legislation crafted by Graham has led the the weakening of our economy. The legislation contained a provision—lobbied for by Enron, a generous contributor to Gramm—that exempted energy trading from regulatory oversight, allowing Enron to run rampant, wreck the California electricity market, and cost consumers billions before it collapsed. (For Gramm, Enron was a family affair. Eight years earlier, his wife, Wendy Gramm, as cftc chairwoman, had pushed through a rule excluding Enron’s energy futures contracts from government oversight. Wendy later joined the Houston-based company’s board, and in the following years her Enron salary and stock income brought between $915,000 and $1.8 million into the Gramm household.)

    stu (1ed35a)

  72. Racist

    JD (5f0e11)

  73. stu – With all due respect, California wrecked it’s own electricity market. People like Enron helped it along. Gramm and his wife did not create the trades or phony accounting that took Enron under. You are just mouthing more of the standard democrat talking points that when you do actually look below the surface you realize that semocrats in fact know nothing about how business operates in this country and are making up excuses to attack people.

    Good luck with this line of bullshit.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  74. Price controls had nothing to do with California’s problems. Nothing.

    stu reminds me of John Kerry. Thanks for your service, stu, but that is no shield from criticism. You pulled the Kerry, how dare you question my patriotism, when nobody was doing so. The rest of your puke was a standard list of Leftist canards, talking points, BS memes, and bizarre conspiracies.

    JD (5f0e11)

  75. stu…
    Is that Sen. Graham of Florida;
    or Sen. Gramm of Texas.
    Or both?

    Another Drew (688ffe)

  76. stu’s talking points don’t even pass the pink face test.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  77. Dalyrocks…the current gas crisis has many different causes, one being the aforementioned lack of regulatory oversight. There is also the Bush Administrations refusal to support the dollar, also that has led to the rise in commodity prices, and compounded by the Admistration continuing to buy oil for the Stratigic Oil Reserve. If you read the Department of Energy Information reports on oil drilling you will see that drilling offshore and in Anwar would only reduce our dependence on foreign oil 3-4% for 3-4 years. Also, if this oil is so stratigic to the United States. Now is not the time to drill it and sell it to China and India. Lets wait until we have an actual oil crisis. Make the oil companies give back that off shore oil leases that they are not going to develop. Don’t these resources belong to United States and they should be developed (with profit for the company that develops them) with regards to stratigic national interest.

    stu (1ed35a)

  78. Graham of texas..and since when do facts not pass the pink face test.

    stu (1ed35a)

  79. JD…my service does not exempt me from criticism. If I was afraid of criticism I would not be voicing my views here. Daily rocks says that my responses don’t pass the test, then please explain to me why Enron happened and the current oil crisis. Oh yeah, supply and demand…thats right.

    stu (1ed35a)

  80. stu – You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts, nor to state your opinions as facts.

    JD (5f0e11)

  81. Dailyrocks, I am familiar with the Enron accounting and yes Graham did not make the trades. He just made them possible and his family benefited from them. I do understand how business works and I am a fan of free trade. But like anything…business, individuals, and governments need a rule of law that ensures they act in ethical manner. Unfortunately your party seeks to undue the regulations that ensure and protect the American people.

    stu (1ed35a)

  82. JD…I agree with you. Fact and opionion are 2 different things. But it is a fact is something that actually happened. It is a fact that Graham crafted regulation that exempted energy trading from regulation. And maybe it is your opinion that this has been good for the United States. I respect that you have that opinion. I just don’t agree. I do disagree when people want to refer to what I say as talking points, BS, etc. and at the same time fail to give detailed solutions or causes to these issues. If you have ever done any type of cause analysis in you work, you should know that sometime A+B does not equal C. I urge you all to look past. The price of gas goes up, i.e. there must be a shortage of gas. This is refered to as faulty reasoning. Any undergrad student can tell you this.

    stu (1ed35a)

  83. I thought Enron was Chimpy’s fault. Has the Left been lying to us all along?

    Canards, memes, talking points, and opinions, all being passed off as fact-y. This is textbook stuff, folks.

    JD (5f0e11)

  84. JD…textbook…aka something you should open sometime.

    stu (1ed35a)

  85. ok…It has been fun, but it’s time to get ready for work. This is what makes America great. The ability to get together and discuss these issues, not matter how wrong you guys are. Just Kidding. I will be waving to you guys on the 28th of August. Look for me in section 524 of Invesco Field.

    stu (1ed35a)

  86. daleyrocks,

    I am enjoying the fact that the Obama campaign is floating the rumor that McCain did so well at the Saddleback event because he was either tipprd in advance by Warren what questions would be asked or because he was not actually in a cone of silence while Obama was speaking and he could hear Obama’s responses.

    I’m enjoying that while this is going on, Obamaphiles are declaring a decisive victory in the debate/forum.

    “NOT FAIR!! HE CHEATED!!! Oh, and we totally won anyway.”

    Tune in again next week for When Narratives Collide…

    Pablo (99243e)

  87. I hope it rains.

    JD (5f0e11)

  88. stu, did that Gramm bill pass in a Democrat controlled Congress?

    Dennis Kucinich crafts a lot of legislation, if you see what I’m saying.

    Pablo (99243e)

  89. Pablo – Doncha know that Gramm came up with the idea and passed it all by his lonesome, just to enrich his family?

    JD (5f0e11)

  90. Stu,
    Of course the gas stations haven’t run out of gas. The Dems haven’t been elected yet.

    The Great Democrat Gas Shortage

    Patricia (f56a97)

  91. #83

    Well, she paid back over a mil of her own money as part of the UC settlement. So they’re all politicians, stu. And it doesn’t make her admirable or anything more than a skilled economist in a political setting with numerous priorities. Unlike Gramm, I’m not an economist and can’t begin to dissect the elements of her work. She’s pro-business; what the specific benefits were to her planned exemptions would be worthy of argument. But it’s still not enough for me to consider an Obama candidacy. Just what resonates with each of us, though…

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  92. stu…
    If you’re going to accuse someone of committing major misconduct in office, the least you can do is spell his name correctly:
    Senator Phil Gramm!
    If you can’t give the man that courtesy, than you need to drop it.

    Another Drew (688ffe)

  93. Vermont Neighbor…I am pro-business too. I want all American’s to have the opportunity to excel and be a part of the opportunities that our great country has to offer. Trust me…I know the opportunities are there. Unfortunately, I have to disagree and do not excuse the behavior of people who insist on profits over country and lack integrety. Abuse of power is wrong no matter what party you belong to. Trust me I don’t think the Democratic party is without fault. When it comes down to choice of party I have to choose the party that even with faults, represents the interests of all Americans. Not just the few or just business. I just don’t understand the anti-tax party. Trust me…my wife and I make more then most Americans, so I pay my fair share of taxes. I look at it as my responsiblity to help pay for the infrastructure and defense of our nation, or make sure our elderly have Soc. Security and medicare, the FDA is funded, the VA has the resources it needs, and yes…make sure those less fortune then myself, receive the help they need. Maybe this is what John McCain means when he talks about how he would like Americans to value service to their country. No why would a republican want to do that because its “my money…give me more! I love money more then anything. Money is my republican god!”

    stu (1ed35a)

  94. stu – Your words:
    “why he would pick an economic adviser that was responsible for the Enron Crisis, Mortgage Crisis, and the fake gas shortage that has raised gas to $4 + a gallon”

    I’m familiar with Enron’s accounting and electricity deregulation as well. I guess you can weasel around on what you mean by the word responsible, but here is a simple question related to your first assertion above.

    Did all the utility holding companies in the country go belly up as a result of the elctricity deregulation and commodity deregulation that you claim Gramm is responsible for?

    stu – The answer is clearly no, so something set apart Enron. Mismanagement, fraud and a host of other factors were involved. As you have already admitted, there was no direct involvement of Gramm. It’s a nice sounding talking point, but when you dig below the surface, there is nothing there.

    You haven’t responded to why Gramm was responsible for the Mortgage Crisis or $4.00 per gallon gas. I can’t wait to hear your theory on that!

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  95. I would not give a man with no morals any courtesy. The name is my mistake. Doing this posts in between a buch of other stuff. I also know that he started out a Democrat…people with no vaules but money can be a part of both parties.

    stu (1ed35a)

  96. stu – You used the word shortage, not anyone else.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  97. 94.

    Money is my republican god!”

    Explain, then, why clear majorities of citizens serving in the armed forces, as policemen, and other jobs in service to the nation of so often conservative?

    And why, in fact, do Republicans as a rule give more to charity, year in, year out, than Democrats? (Especially when expressed as a percentage of income?)

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  98. daleyrocks…you are correct Enron did have more then one fact, but deregulation made it possible for this conduct to take place. As far as Enron, Banking, Gas look at his time on the Senate Banking Committee. He threatened to cut money to the Security Exchange committe if they instituted rules prohibiting accounting firms getting to close to the companies they audit (enron anyone), also pushed through banking deregulation bill that decimated Depression-era firewalls between commercial banks, investment banks, insurance companies, and securities firms. Also please do some research on the Commodities Futures Modernization Act. Credit default swaps are essentially insurance policies covering the losses on securities in the event of a default. Financial institutions buy them to protect themselves if an investment they hold goes south. It’s like bookies trading bets, with banks and hedge funds gambling on whether an investment (say, a pile of subprime mortgages bundled into a security) will succeed or fail. Because of the swap remained utterly unregulated, meaning no one made sure the banks and hedge funds had the assets to cover the losses they guaranteed(mortgage crisis).

    stu (1ed35a)

  99. EW1…I can ask the same questions. Why do so many more Democratic lawmakers have a history of military service. Also, why have more service members contributed to Obama? Hmmm…maybe because John McCain did not support enlisted troops by voting for the GI bill. Oh yeah, because his daddy was a RADM.

    stu (1ed35a)

  100. EW….I think the correct term for a republican lawmaker who has never served in the military as a “chicken hawk.” Like to act tough when its someone else doing the fighting…trust me that goes for pundits like Hannity and Co. Man I would like to take that Hannity guy in a All American bare fist fight. One on One…his prepschool ass wouldn’t know what hit him…nah he’s a coward. Would never agree.

    stu (1ed35a)

  101. “…Why do so many more Democratic lawmakers have a history of military service…”
    You better have some stats to back that up, stu.

    Another Drew (688ffe)

  102. 100: Fact is, they don’t. Far fewer Democrats serve. And there is no way in hell that Obama has collected more campaign contributions from servicemembers than McCain.

    Any other bald faced lies you’re gonna pull out of your pocket?

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  103. Wow…that one made the chick hawks mad. I will give you the website that lists what lawmakers have served.
    http://www.awolbush.com/whoserved.html

    stu (1ed35a)

  104. 101.

    Man I would like to take that Hannity guy in a All American bare fist fight. One on One…his prepschool ass wouldn’t know what hit him…

    That would be that Hannity guy who worked his way through college as a construction worker?

    I’d pay to watch him clean the floor with you.

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  105. Actually, EW, stu’s got us there.
    The latest campaign contribution reports do show that The One has received more money, from more individuals, that report that they are active duty military.

    Now, about this Chicken-hawk shit….

    Another Drew (688ffe)

  106. 104: Riiiighhhttt.

    Why don’t you start with these two:

    http://www.senate.gov
    http://www.house.gov

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  107. #101,

    Hannity used to be better. He’s a bit much, but he’s still passionate about history. Actually, he didn’t go to college or prep school. And his background is construction, so he probably could handle a pretty basic brawl.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  108. And Ew1…you say there is no way in hell that the military contributed more to Barack. Well I retired after 21 years in the military less then a year ago, and I guess you think the that soldiers/Aeamen, and Airmen love 15 month deployments, being on their 3rd or 4th deployement, or seeing their friends killed. All for an administration that lied to them and tried to do a war on the cheap. Oh yeah…wifes are happy with that too. Not sure if you have ever been to the funaral of a 19yo military member who has been killed in Iraq. I have…its very sad.

    stu (1ed35a)

  109. Well I would love for him to bring it on. I’m not a big guy either..5 10 180…but no coward.

    stu (1ed35a)

  110. #108+

    I may be wrong about what amount of college he finished. For a fact, he was doing conservative radio at UCSB’s student station but was eventually derailed by the liberal powers that be. He was a regular phone-in caller at local radio, edged his way into paying work… went to the South… Atlanta, New York…

    He’s definitely no silver spoon case.

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  111. 106 Another Drew:

    … that report that they are active duty military.

    You don’t think there might be a little tampering there?

    Frankly, I’d say that little bit of campaign propaganda is just that: propaganda in order to make the Obamassiah palatable to those who might be swayed by the idea that our servicemen and women have an iota of respect for him. (To see what I’m talking about, you might want to head over to Blackfive if you haven’t been there in a while.)

    Although, I will admit that there are currently more sitting Democrat Senators than Republican Senators that served. But that isn’t what the twit above claimed, and when counting the numbers in both houses, the Dems are outnumbered about 2 to 1.

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  112. So EW1…you are saying that the people on that list actually served in the miltary? Riiight

    stu (1ed35a)

  113. That fact is many of our service members are praying that he gets in office. Sorry to burst your bubble that the military are not sheep at the alter of republicanism (yes there are many conservative in the military, but many more democrats then you think). I know chicken hawks like to think of us as cannon fodder that they can march into battle with no concern. Well that and military members make a good photo op for the chicken hawks.

    stu (1ed35a)

  114. 109 What you are saying doesn’t jibe at all with what my sailors, soldiers and airmen have been telling me (other than deployments suck. Well, guess what? They always have.)

    So, either you’re lying, or you’ve been hanging out with some sad sack mofos.

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  115. EW…
    All campaign donars have to be reported to the FEC, which releases the reports. They have to be identified as to who they work for, their position, and other pertinent data.
    If the campaign alters the data prior to reporting it, major problem!

    Another Drew (688ffe)

  116. Vermont Neighbor…busted..I have no idea where Hannity is from…but now I know what happened. When he was working construction he got hit in the head with a pallet of bricks…cause that is the only way the stupid ass stuff he says would come out of his mouth.

    stu (1ed35a)

  117. lol…now the obama campaign is altering the data. And I’ve been accused of consiracy theories on this site…too funny. I love you guys.

    stu (1ed35a)

  118. 113:

    you are saying that the people on that list actually served in the miltary? Riiight

    The entire Senate and House? Is that what you think I’m saying?

    Hardly. I suggest it because I think the official biographies that are accessible from there are a lot more creditable than that hogwash you’re spraying around.

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  119. 116 Another Drew: The data is self reported, non? Further, the campaign has absolutely no way of verifying the data.

    Its very similar to conducting a health survey~researchers very often reach a result that supports their thesis…and I think it happens quite a bit in campaign finance reporting as well.

    EW1(SG) (84e813)

  120. You are right they do suck. No I didn’t hang out with sad sack mofos. If you have been a leader of men in the military…and I guess you are saying that you have Soldiers, Sailors and Airmen. You know that 99% are hard working and do whatever it takes to get the mission done. Even if the mission makes no sense. When I was on Active Duty I never stated a political view (I served conservative and liberal americans), it is unprofessional and inapproprate. Probably the same with many of your troops, especially if you are their superior and they know your political views. Oh yeah…lets go tell the Commmander or 1st Shirt he doesn’t know shit about politics. Yeah right!

    stu (1ed35a)

  121. Stu, I see you like to use that “chicken hawk” label – guess you don’t like democracy much.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  122. EW…
    For more info on campaign finance reports, you might go here:
    http://www.fec.gov/disclosure.shtml

    Another Drew (688ffe)

  123. stu – You are admitting your point is bullshit with these words:
    “deregulation made it possible for this conduct to take place”

    Mismanagement and fraud is what caused bad decision making to occur and the company to go under. Other companies engaged in similar activities managed to avoid the same fate. So are you attempting to hold Gramm responsible for both good and bad decision making to have your talking point hold any water? He didn’t install the masnagement teams at the companies. You can’t have it both ways stu.

    I’m familiar with credit default swaps as well, stu, but I don’t see how YOU’VE created any linkage between them to the mortgage crisis or with your elementary description of the breakdown barriers between banks and other institutions. Your point about the auditors in interesting in that it ignores the implementation of the Sarbanes-Oxley Act emphasizing the separation of auditors, which was written as a knee jerk reaction to the the Enron and other corporate scandals before the mortgage crisis began unfolding unfolding. Lawyers in Congress should not make rules for accountants.

    stu – you really haven’t given a description of the origins of the mortgage crisis and why Gramm is responsible. Based on your first talking point, I’m not sure I can trust you.

    I’m still wainting to hear why HE is responsible for $4.00 gas as well. I also don’t want to read any DOE reports. If they’re wothwhile, link them and excerpt them here. What are we giving away to India and China, by the way?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  124. daleyrocks, stu has no understanding of those issues, he’s just regurgitating nonsense he’s heard on MSNBC.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  125. “deregulation made it possible for this conduct to take place”

    The dem philosophy writ large. People are not responsible for their behavior, the goverment is!!!11!!eleventy!!

    Phil Gramm caused Enron, nevermind that corporate fraud is as old as the ages, he is responsible!!11!!

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  126. One more thing before I head off to bed. Can the party of Nancy Reagan…just say no, really have Cindy McCain as first lady. We better all lock our drugs cabinets. Wow…who would of ever thought we would want a first lady who is a criminal…give me the fist bump any day. Fist bump is very popluar with Baseball players an all american sport. Of course lots of Americans do drugs too. Hmmmm Just say yes…the new motto of the white house…cause we can’t have an African American first lady…all African Americans are radicals. And if Obama gets elected they will steal our white wifes.

    stu (1ed35a)

  127. stu, that’s the bottom line of the Democrats campaign – slander others. Good job, stu.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  128. Don’t want to read DOE reports because they have facts…good night…got to go before the wife gets mad

    stu (1ed35a)

  129. There he goes playing the race card again, just like Obama.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  130. daleyrocks, the Democrats are so desperate to find racists that they are willing to make them up.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  131. #127 – The party that brings us Obama, an admitted blow and pot user, slanders Cindy McCain. The party of tolerance for gays, second chances for drug addicts, and voting rights for felons can’t wait to slander a republican for being gay, an addict, or committing a crime. Stu, you’re a p.o.s. hypocrite.

    Annie (daf73a)

  132. #94 stu,

    You say you could never give a man without morals any courtesy. Yet you’re giving him YOUR VOTE. That man is Obama. His platform and promises are so radically different from when he first hit the scene, it’s like he’s working a room. He is working a room. And he’s just not very good at it. Having no moral or ethical foundation is catching up with this man.

    As an aside, we all want to pay for infrastructure and logical welfare assistance and social programs. Democrats largely seek control through numbers via a play for empathy. Depend on us, be the lesser little people and we’ll rule you. Very, very selfish. Not at all compassionate.

    It’s not the empathy you cite. Where the hell is Nancy Pelosi when we have a price problem to solve. She’s away, more worried about her legacy and playing shell games that every American has to deal with. No, stu. She’s not concerned about me. And Dems control through numbers. The compassion isn’t there.

    Unfortunately, I have to disagree and do not excuse the behavior of people who insist on profits over country and lack integrety. Abuse of power is wrong no matter what party you belong to.

    I think it’s obvious we all agree on this. The Enron guys were brought to justice, too.

    It’s a total fallacy to claim that you vote Democrat because you have ‘morals and empathy’ beyond those who disagree with your choices.

    I’ve never been to a service member’s funeral, just as you’ve never been to a 9/11 funeral. (Or to the funeral of someone killed by a terrorist).

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  133. At #86 – Stu’s getting ready for work,,,at 9:05 he’s gotta get to bed cause the “wife” might get mad. Me thinks momma is calling from upstairs, and it’s past his bedtime.

    Annie (daf73a)

  134. “Don’t want to read DOE reports because they have facts…good night…got to go before the wife gets mad”

    stu – People like you have a habit of claiming things say things they actually don’t. The proof is to link to them or excerpt them here. You seem like you have the mad computer skilz to do it. Go for it dude!

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  135. stu – Don’t quit now. I wanna swat you around some more. I didn’t get my quota in today.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  136. the new motto of the white house…cause we can’t have an African American first lady…all African Americans are radicals. And if Obama gets elected they will steal our white wifes.

    Don’t delve into this nonsense again. Do you understand? It’s racist and offensive. It’s also telling that Obama has tried it – and on too many occasions. Try to compensate for him, will you?

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  137. #127 – stu

    Can the party of Nancy Reagan…just say no, really have Cindy McCain as first lady.
    — “The party of” usually refers to the head of the party, not his wife. And, believe it or not, we don’t elect a president based on whether or not his wife is a saint.

    We better all lock our drugs cabinets. Wow…who would of ever thought we would want a first lady who is a criminal…
    — Yeah, ’cause you know that being First Lady gives her carte blanche to enter homes without a warrant; plus, you can’t believe those stories about her being clean now.

    give me the fist bump any day. Fist bump is very popluar with Baseball players an all american sport.
    — Oh, good for you! You’re trendy.

    Of course lots of Americans do drugs too. Hmmmm Just say yes…the new motto of the white house…
    — Well, those of us that actually read Barack’s book . . .

    cause we can’t have an African American first lady…all African Americans are radicals. And if Obama gets elected they will steal our white wifes.
    — Yet another lib plays the race card. Ho-hum. HOMER SIMPSON: Boring.

    Icy Truth (9e6f2a)

  138. stu @ 6:12PM – It has been fun, but it’s time to get ready for work.

    stu @ 9:05PM – One more thing before I head off to bed.

    — Well, either he meant getting ready for work the next day, or getting ready to do work around the house (both lame, I know); or he really did go to work (there’s that mysterious gap between 6:12 & 7:51); or in this case “get ready for work” means turning down the lights, setting the hand lotion and tissue box next to the couch, popping the “Bitchez In Heat” disc into the DVD player, and preparing to get busy!

    Icy Truth (9e6f2a)

  139. stu wrote: I will be waving to you guys on the 28th of August. Look for me in section 524 of Invesco Field.

    — He will be the one holding his hands to his shock-expressioned face (ala Macaulay Culkin in Home Alone) and mouthing the words, “I served in the military for two decades only to turn around and vote for a Marxist? What the fuck was I thinking?”

    Icy Truth (9e6f2a)

  140. A fairly accurate gaze into the crystal ball.

    “I served in the military for two decades only to turn around and vote for a Marxist? What the fuck was I thinking?”

    Vermont Neighbor (a066ed)

  141. Anon, if you’ve still interested in ferreting out a possible “Moby,” take a close look at stu. There’s something about his claims that doesn’t quite ring true. If you get my drift.

    I could be wide of the mark, but about now would’t be a bad time to reef the sails.

    Ropelight (42c46d)

  142. “There’s something about his claims that doesn’t quite ring true.”

    Ropelight – You’re a quick study. What was your first clue?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  143. Mr daleyrocks,

    Excessive reliance on military experience to bolster idiot nonsense, that, an a pronounced lack of bearing.

    Ropelight (42c46d)

  144. Ropelight, I was just yanking your chain.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)


  145. Pastor Warren came up with by far the best format to allow people to see both candidate’s candid response. Old Johnny McCain obviously has the life experience, wisdom, humor and grit to do a great job leading our country through the next four years. Obama’s answers showed just how much of life he has yet to experience, if ever. He’s a lawyer and he sounded like one – evasive and unspecific.
    Vicki S.

    Vicki Sempek (0d2c61)

  146. goldielocks, you’re as flighty as a new born filly.

    Ropelight (42c46d)

  147. You guys are so silly..you say I play the race card…but you guys play the marxist card. At least when I bring up race in this country it is an actual issue. Race is something that our country has struggled with for a long time. It is something that should be played, and discussed. Even my party struggles with race (see mad Hillary supporters) are you guys so in denial that you can’t admit that the party Lincoln, now struggles with racism and people of color. You guys hate drug users, but only if they are poor. I mean use your brain a bit…I use a lot of hyberbole in these posts and they are filled with exagerations to make a point. Yes Phil Gramm did not cause Enron, etc all by his self, althought he was a key player. Anyone with half an education knows that many factors play into any economic crisis. Economy’s are complex. Some say I libel Cindy McCain because she is a recovering drug addict, but in reality I feel for her. Addiction affects people from all economic background. I just believe that as Americans we should make sure all Americans should have access to treatment. Unfortunately if you are poor and do what Cindy McCain did, you end up in jail. I like to believe that as Americans we have compassion for all. I really wonder what your party stands for. You don’t want to fund the daily functions of American Government. You hate the Bill of Rights (yes I disagree with my party on the 2nd, but got to love the 4th). You hate congress and the constitution, because it is their constitutional obligation to regulate business. You hate people of color, gays, science, intellectuals, the working class. Democrats built the infrastructure of this nation with the new deal, put a man on the moon, passed civil rights legislation, we are the party that looks to the future and the posibilities of what we can do and become. Your party looks to the past and dreams of the good old days we can go back to. We supported unions (yes union structure needs to change and they are far from perfect) who built the middle class. What are you guys going to do when white males are a minority in the country and your base is weak and dying. Damn the democrats, if they weren’t spending all their days killing babies we could maintain power. Damn all this and all I wanted to do was make a joke about Rick Warren and his lover Ted Haggard. Oh yeah…the best thing about McCain is his daughter Megahan she is smokin. Lets hope she shows her McBush all over the internet like young Laura Bush…or should I say Laura (lack of bush) did. Ok..thats it…I will never come back to this site.

    stu (1ed35a)

  148. Stu, you’ve got to be kidding.

    Please read up on the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and tell me the numbers and percentages of Republicans and Democrats.

    You just made yourself look like a fool.

    steve miller (b589d7)

  149. I am not a fool. The civil right act was originaly authored by the justice department headed by Robert Kennady (democratic administration). Southern Democrats (who are now known as republicans) were against the civil rights act.

    stu (1ed35a)

  150. Nice try.

    What were the percentages and the votes by party, Stu? You’re the one that made the claim, and you’re the one that can’t back it up.

    BTW, I was a supporter of Robert Kennedy through the 60s. I think I know the score, even though you don’t.

    steve miller (b589d7)

  151. stu-pid – You did not even demonstrate that Gramm was a key player in the bankruptcy of Enron, except perhaps in your mind, where you of course split atoms. I’m waiting to hear from you why he is responsible for the Mortgage Crisis and $4.00 gas. You promised.

    And yes, you did play the race card last night, along with the stupid card. When you are the party of identity politics, it’s tough to avoid.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  152. Stu, you are great at saying things, but pretty lousy at backing them up with what we like to call “facts” and you seem to call “impossible to find.”

    steve miller (b589d7)

  153. stu just sprinted right past Peter and Oiram for the most mendouceous troll on here. Stay classy, a-hole.

    JD (5f0e11)

  154. stu 5:26 pm: I will never come back to this site.

    stu 5:38 pm: I am not a fool.

    Apogee (366e8b)

  155. Stu, it is amusing how much you “know” that simply isn’t true. Not least about the New Deal ( which actually prolonged the Great Depression ), Gramm, Enron or the ’64 Civil Rights Act. ( By the way, look up Robert Byrd’s current party affiliation some day ).

    And all your list of supposed “hates” are quite silly, not least your false assertion that Congress has an “obligation” to regulate business.

    What a truly astonishing list of things that just ain’t so that you’ve given us.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  156. Oh dear, I’ve missed another meltdown.

    Shoot.

    #123 Another Drew: I understand your point about the campaign finance regulations~they seem pretty onerous. But I think there is still a LOT of wiggle room in them for statistical word games at the campaign’s level (on both sides,) and more importantly, the fundamental data is self-reported: never a good source of data when attempting to accurately quantify. (The likelihood of individual, small donors actually facing any sanctions for “incorrect” or “sloppy” self-reporting is pretty small.)

    A few more thoughts: The Obamassiah’s campaign is oriented at the youth vote (well, those who have never grown up, anyway) so there is a chance that young servicemembers caught up by the flash of the campaign have contributed disproportionately. In contrast, the folks that make decisions and provide direction (in the services) aren’t going to be taken in by the likes of Obama. And although they are a little more rare now than in the days of conscripted service, you still find some ‘lifers,’ sad sacks in the service whose goal is that “pension” that generally have nothing positive to offer but can tell you all the way back to Hannibal how screwed up the military is. And the Commander in Chief.

    EW1(SG) (2dee73)

  157. #148 – stu

    — First of all, paragraphs!

    Now: You guys are so silly..you say I play the race card…but you guys play the marxist [sic] card. At least when I bring up race in this country it is an actual issue. Race is something that our country has struggled with for a long time. It is something that should be played, and discussed.
    — Well, at least you’ve admitted that you played the card, at the same time that you parrot talking points from Obama’s Philadelphia speech. And can you please capitalize “Marxist”? You’ve got Uncle Karl spinning in his tomb. Show some respect to the man who has inspired your candidate’s political philosophy!

    Even my party struggles with race
    There’s an understatement. You struggle to go five minutes without mentioning it. Hint: the way for you to resolve your “struggle” is you STFU about it.

    are you guys so in denial that you can’t admit that the party Lincoln, now struggles with racism and people of color.
    — No. We do struggle with racism directed against us. I put it to you that there are far more people on the left promoting, perpetuating, and participating in the culture of ‘victimology’ than there are outright racists on the right.

    You guys hate drug users, but only if they are poor.
    — Another swipe at Cindy McCain? Give it a rest, huh? If you’re supporting Obama you obviously believe in forgiving past drug use, so attacking someone for holding the same position as yourself is a bit silly. We hate drug dealers.

    I use a lot of hyberbole [sic] in these posts and they are filled with exagerations [sic] to make a point.
    — How about using spell-check? Or does not doing that also make a point?

    Some say I libel Cindy McCain because she is a recovering drug addict, but in reality I feel for her. Addiction affects people from all economic background. I just believe that as Americans we should make sure all Americans should have access to treatment. Unfortunately if you are poor and do what Cindy McCain did, you end up in jail.
    — Is that her fault? Oh, and all Americans do have access to treatment.

    I really wonder what your party stands for. You don’t want to fund the daily functions of American Government. You hate the Bill of Rights (yes I disagree with my party on the 2nd, but got to love the 4th). You hate congress [sic] and the constitution [sic], because it is their constitutional obligation to regulate business.
    — You see, it is blanket absolute statements like these that get you into trouble around here. ‘Running up the deficit’ = we don’t want to fund the daily functions of govt. ‘Warrant-less wiretapping’ = we hate the Bill of Rights. Pushing for deregulation = we hate Congress (at 9% approval I’d say that most of the country hates Congress right now) and the Constitution. BTW (and I know this is going to shock people to find out that you’re wrong on this one), it is not a constitutional obligation of Congress to regulate business. The Constitution reads: To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes. Does that give them broad powers? Yes. Does that require them to regulate every detailed aspect of every business there is? Not even close.

    You hate people of color, gays, science, intellectuals, the working class.
    — You dwell in a sea of ugly stereotypes.

    Democrats built the infrastructure of this nation with the new deal, put a man on the moon, passed civil rights legislation
    — I guess Eisenhower building the interstate highway system was an afterthought, and Nixon following through on the Apollo program was just an inheritance, and the fact that a higher percentage of Republicans Voted for the Civil Rights Act than Democrats is just an inconvenient truth.

    we are the party that looks to the future and the posibilities [sic] of what we can do and become. Your party looks to the past and dreams of the good old days we can go back to
    — You are the poster with an endless string of clichés.

    We supported unions
    — Including the Soviet . . .

    What are you guys going to do when white males are a minority in the country and your base is weak and dying.
    — Well, what are you then? [Bonus points for knowing the reference.] Oh, and let us worry about it.

    I won’t comment on the remainder of your post. I’m not offended by it (not after I previously said something rude about you), just saddened. The key to being a liberal and debating on this site is very simple: do not lie, do not misrepresent an opinion as fact, do not engage in non-sarcastic hate speech. Is that so tough?

    Icy Truth (1d424e)

  158. Civil Rights Act of 1964 –

    Vote in the Senate:
    Democratic Party: 46-21 (69%-31%)
    Republican Party: 27-6 (82%-18%)

    Vote in the House:
    Democratic Party: 153-91 (63%-37%)
    Republican Party: 136-35 (80%-20%)

    Overall Senate membership:
    67 Democrats, 33 Republicans

    Overall House membership:
    258 Democrats, 176 Republicans (1 vacant seat)
    — It appears that 5 Republicans and 14 Democrats did not vote.

    — As should be obvious, not only did a higher percentage of Republicans in both houses vote for the act, but the legislation would not have passed either house without the support of Republicans.

    Icy Truth (1d424e)

  159. What did I miss?

    Oh, stu-pid flamed out and didn’t back up his assertions?

    WHAT A SURPRISE!!!!!!

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  160. Icy #159

    To add to your informative post, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 would never have been voted on in the Senate without Republican votes to break the filibuster mounted by Democratic senators.

    My namesake Stu, or as we say on the eastside, Tocayo, can you tell us the name and party affiliation of the Senator who spoke for 14 hours and 13 minutes in a vain effort to kill the bill?

    Stu707 (6e4ad5)

  161. Oh, Icy, they were Democrats then, but now they’re Republicans!!! I swear it’s true, so don’t ask me to back it up, ok? Republicans are racists and Democrats love everybody…except for Republicans. Everybody knows that.

    Pablo (99243e)

  162. Pablo, you need an exorcism. That was too good. 😉

    Icy Truth (1d424e)

  163. Stu707 –

    — Would that have been my favorite Democratic Senator, Robert ‘KKK’ Byrd?

    Icy Truth (1d424e)

  164. Icy Truth #164:

    – Would that have been my favorite Democratic Senator, Robert ‘KKK’ Byrd?

    That would be my recollection, but I was planning to wait until tomorrow to look it up to confirm it…just so I could be pleasantly surprised.

    (Either surprised that I remembered correctly, or had actually forgotten some other racist scumbag. Either way would work …)

    Of course, Stu707 could just ruin the suspense and tell us…

    EW1(SG) (2dee73)

  165. It’s all good, Icy. All I have to do is take off the makeup, like Heath Ledger in the Joker role.

    Wait a minute! Was I just thinking about voting for Baracky?

    Pablo (99243e)

  166. #166

    — Come back, Pablo! Don’t follow Heath into the darkness . . . for there lies stu!!!

    Icy Truth (1d424e)

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