Patterico's Pontifications

8/13/2008

L.A. City Council Requires Home Improvement Stores to Provide Shelter for Day Laborers

Filed under: General,Immigration — Patterico @ 10:10 pm



The Los Angeles Business Journal reports:

Major new home improvement stores opening in the city of Los Angeles may have to build shelters for day laborers under a City Council ordinance approved Wednesday.

Under the ordinance, proposed by Councilmembers Bernard Parks and Ed Reyes and passed unanimously, all proposed home improvement stores of more than 100,000 square feet would have to obtain a conditional use permit from the city. Most Home Depot, Lowe’s and other big box home improvement stores would meet this threshold.

Because when there’s a nuisance, the best thing to do is attract it.

Good job, guys.

Shockingly, the L.A. Times opposed the measure, although the editors too easily dismiss the principle that encouraging a nuisance brings more of the nuisance. Still, the paper’s alternative argument that this is an expensive and unfair burden for the stores makes good common sense.

Too bad the City Council members unanimously lack that trait.

82 Responses to “L.A. City Council Requires Home Improvement Stores to Provide Shelter for Day Laborers”

  1. So, the city council insists that businesses spend money to ensure the comfort of non-customers, while telling other businesses that they can’t open restaurants where poor people live because the food is too fattening.

    L.A. sounds like a perfect storm of stupid.

    Mike Lief (e6260e)

  2. L.A. sounds like a perfect storm of stupid.

    That is putting it mildly.

    The ordinance is also an invitation to stores like Home Depot and Lowe’s to build new job creating, sales tax generating stores outside LA City limits.

    Stu707 (6e4ad5)

  3. One goddam thing after another.

    Icy Truth (865643)

  4. Coming next, shelters for street corner drug dealers and prostitutes. Complete with showers, toilets and beds.
    That will solve the problem.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  5. Or how about safety nets under overhead freeway signs, so taggers won’t fall to the road and get hurt.

    Jack (0b0c9a)

  6. If I were the stores, Perfect Sense has given me the best idea…

    Sue the city for exactly that…to force shelters for “street people,” and see if you could get the courts to agree….under the same terms as the law is written…

    Then, I’d close every one of my stores in the city…

    Advertising just how many people the city is forcing me to put out of work by increasing my costs of doing business…

    I’m sure there are other places that would want my business….

    reff (b68a4f)

  7. Ease off guys, Dems want to help the day-labor force, even if they don’t got no stinkin’ green cards. Problem is Big Labor ain’t exactly keen on non-Union (read non-dues paying) workers getting their own facilities. Think of it as union halls for the unorganized.

    Remember: Organization is the mobilization of bias.

    Ropelight (4a83c9)

  8. When does everyone wake up and discover that LA is being run by a bunch of loony leftists? San Francisco has nothing on these guys.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  9. A modest proposal:

    The 2009 city council elections are coming up. An organized slate of centrist candidates whose SOLE expressed goals are “transit, transit and transit” could make mincemeat of these fools. Especially if they have a plan. Even the Times is getting fed up with all the squabbling and nonsense.

    Reyes, Zine, Weiss (open), Alarcon, Perry, Rosendahl, Garcetti and Hahn (odd numbered districts) are up this time.

    ELECTION CALENDAR – 2008-2009

    OCTOBER 4, 2008, SATURDAY
    Residence deadline.

    NOVEMBER 3, 2008, MONDAY
    First day to file Declaration of Intention to Become a Candidate; Candidates for Mayor, City Attorney, Controller, and City Council also file Statement of Economic Interests.

    NOVEMBER 8, 2008, SATURDAY (until noon)
    Last day to file Declaration of Intention to Become a Candidate. First day to obtain Nominating Petitions. First day to file Nominating Petitions.

    DECEMBER 3, 2008, WEDNESDAY
    Last day to obtain Nominating Petitions. Last day to file Nominating Petitions and/or Supplemental Petitions.

    DECEMBER 6, 2008, SATURDAY
    Last day to withdraw candidacy.

    DECEMBER 10, 2008, WEDNESDAY
    Random alphabet drawing to determine candidate order on the ballot in Council Chambers at 9:00 a.m.

    FEBRUARY 2, 2009, MONDAY
    First day to apply for and vote a Vote-By-Mail Ballot for Primary Nominating Election.

    FEBRUARY 17, 2009, TUESDAY
    Last day to register to vote in Primary Nominating Election.

    FEBRUARY 24, 2009, TUESDAY
    Last day to apply by mail for a Vote-By-Mail Ballot for Primary Nominating Election.

    MARCH 2, 2009, MONDAY
    Last day to vote a Vote-By-Mail Ballot in the Election Division Office for Primary Nominating Election.

    MARCH 3, 2009, TUESDAY
    PRIMARY NOMINATING ELECTION

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  10. At least in Chicago the City Council implemented a living wage law to keep those pesky big box stores and their jobs and tax base out of the city. The suburbs have to deal with shit like that.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  11. Oddly, Chicago has the highest combined sales tax in the country (10.25%). We’re headed there, too, I think.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  12. Read properly, this is an anti-new-big-box law. Note the “larger than 100,000 square feet” qualifier.

    Just in case the direct approach is found unconstitutional, maybe throwing endless annoyances and red tape at them will do the trick. Unions are very pleased and the public employee union folks are the only ones SURE to vote next March.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  13. Sounds like it’s time to shut down the big-box stores in LA — because abiding by this idiocy will just open the stores up to more lawsuits. What happens if someone gets hurt in one of these restrooms? What if these restrooms aren’t maintained to the same standards as the ones inside the store (presumably for customer and employee use)? What if these restrooms become havens for drug use, public sex, or other crimes? Are the stores liable? My guess is, yes, they would be.

    So rather than deal with the liability, just pick up, move out, and write off the stores as losses.

    Rob Crawford (6c262f)

  14. This sounds like criminal coercion to me, forcing law abiding people and businesses to become part of their criminal plans. These companies need to resist though or they should be boycotted.

    It’s hard to believe that there isn’t federal law against this sort of thing, but if not, congress better start writing it.

    j curtis (c84b9e)

  15. Read properly, this is an anti-new-big-box law. Note the “larger than 100,000 square feet” qualifier.

    Also this isn’t going to affect stores that already exist, as the words “all proposed” are used, meaning new construction.

    What the hell does LA have against new construction?

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  16. In order to obtain the permit, the developers of the stores would have to present plans to address the issue of day laborers congregating on the property and waiting to be picked up for jobs.

    Well, that’s easy enough.

    Call ICE to come and get them.

    That would seem to “address the issue of day laborers congregating on the property and waiting to be picked up for jobs.”

    Mike Lief (e6260e)

  17. It’s hard to believe that there isn’t federal law against this sort of thing

    Just what we need, another federal law. That is sure to fix it.

    JD (75f5c3)

  18. j curtis is on to something. Wouldn’t the building of these shelters make the store complicit in the employment of Illegal Immigrants? Isn’t that a practice ICE is cracking down on???

    Color me confused…

    Why would any store comply with this ordinance?

    h2u (81b7bd)

  19. Just what we need, another federal law. That is sure to fix it.

    No, but more federal laws seem likely.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  20. I hope the big-box retailers close their current stores and tell the city council to go pound sand. My second choice would be for the retailers to also build conspicuously painted and labeled “ICE/LAPD Substation” offices next door to the day laborer shelters, and offer free coffee, donuts, etc to any law enforcement that want to stop by…I met even hire some guys to wear plain green uniforms to show up periodically…

    Eric (162f1f)

  21. Why would any store comply with this ordinance?

    They wouldn’t. The idea is to create an obstacle to new Home Depot stores. Domestic protectionism, pure and simple.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  22. I often wonder why you don’t see more “corporate rebellion” in cases like these. It would be awesome to see Home Depot and their competitors announce that they will not build any new stores in the city limits if the legislation passes. I’ve only ever seen Walmart pull a move like that though, and it seemed to work.

    Josh (f6ffef)

  23. 17Just what we need, another federal law. That is sure to fix it.

    Have you ever noticed that liberals all of a sudden become states rights advocates when the issue is the Federal Government’s constitutional duty to protect the US from invasion?

    It has failed at the one simple purpose for which its existence was justified.

    j curtis (c84b9e)

  24. Creating new federal laws to combat new bad local laws is guaranfuckingteed to make things worse.

    JD (75f5c3)

  25. We certainly don’t want to encourage these day laborers to do, well labor. They should be smuggling drugs and other immigrants — that’s where the real money is, anyway. Why make it attractive for them to do something socially productive?

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  26. I would like to see a movement to eliminate 90% of what is on the books, fed/state/local.
    I venture that government could largely continue as before, but would be tremendously more focused in what it would be doing.
    After the fed/state/local registers were reduced to 10% of their previous size, we could then work on reducing them by additional 10% increments until they were winnowed down to the skeletons they deserve to be.

    Another Drew (249078)

  27. So a new business will be forced to provide accomodations for “trespassers” – people who are neither customers nor employees?

    Good job, Los Angeles City Council…that’s the way to attract business.

    Darwin Akbar (11823f)

  28. Los Angeles has not learned anything from Detroit. Have any of you visited Detroit ? The city, itself, looks like Berlin in 1946. Vacant stretches of land, burned out buildings, no stores. Outside of Detroit there is a ring of beautiful suburbs with huge, beautiful markets and shops and restaurants. This is what the left wing Democrats do to their cities. New York was headed that way until they elected Giuliani in desperation. Boston and San Francisco have tiny, water surrounded city centers. Chicago has been smart enough to elect the Daleys although the present Mayor Daley is behind Obama so he may not be as smart as his father was.

    Mike K (155601)

  29. #25 is kinda like a fart in a room full of fresh air. Thanks Phil!

    Old Coot (43e1f1)

  30. Why make it attractive for them to do something socially productive?

    like loiter?

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  31. Is it legal for a legitimate day laborer to solicit business outside of a Home Depot?

    I’m trying to formulate my opinion, thanks.

    Oiram (983921)

  32. #29, no problem buddy. Just pointing out where the attitudes about day laborers ultimately lead. Unless you want to line up these people and shoot them (I wouldn’t be surprised if you guys do, but never mind that) it’s certainly better to encourage them when they try to be productive, don’t you think?

    After all, our drug policies are certainly encouraging them to become drug smugglers, by jacking up the price of illegal drugs. So if we also discourage them from doing productive labor, what do you think they’re going to do — sit down and die? Hell no — they’re going to start making money where the opportunity is, in the smuggling market.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  33. Phil,
    As not to discourage illegals from productive labor, please provide your address so we can send over a few thousand hard working illegals to camp out on your lawn, use you bathroom, etc.

    Don’t want to give out your address? You must be a racist.

    Perfect Sense (9d1b08)

  34. #31 – Oiram

    — It depends upon the particular jurisdiction.

    Icy Truth (e52465)

  35. Thanks Icy

    Oiram (983921)

  36. As not to discourage illegals from productive labor, please provide your address so we can send over a few thousand hard working illegals to camp out on your lawn, use you bathroom, etc.

    Nah, I’d rather they keep smuggling drugs for my kids to buy.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  37. And here I’d rather the illegals not get here in the first place…

    What different world-views we have.

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  38. Are there many day laborers who aren’t illegal immigrants? I’ve been assuming they all were.

    If they are illegal, enforcement of current laws would take care of most of the problem.

    MamaAJ (788539)

  39. I have no idea about the work jurisdictions surrounding Los Angeles home improvement stores.

    If they allow Legal day laborers, and by legal I not only mean documented workers but also people with working permits, then they probably should provide shelter.
    I know that this creates a nuisance, but perhaps the nuisance would be the perfect excuse to check not only immigration but working permits.

    We need to not only check for illegal aliens doing these jobs, but also for the underground untaxed money that changes hands.

    Oiram (983921)

  40. Isn’t LA a sanctuary city?

    Scott Jacobs (fa5e57)

  41. So if we also discourage them from doing productive labor, what do you think they’re going to do — sit down and die? Hell no — they’re going to start making money where the opportunity is, in the smuggling market.

    Baloney!

    As of June 5[2006], apprehensions of illegal immigrants in Eagle Pass, where Operation Streamline II began Dec. 6, were down 51 percent, and they were down 32 percent in Del Rio, compared with the same period a year ago. Apprehensions of drug smugglers increased substantially between Dec. 6 and June 5, because agents were no longer tied up processing illegal immigrants, Clark said. Since the program began, the value of narcotics seizures has increased 309 percent to $13 million in Eagle Pass and by 176 percent to almost $40 million in Del Rio, he said.

    MamaAJ (788539)

  42. Businesses will have to raise prices which results in more tax income for the city. And you thought the city council members were stupid.

    Cure, close existing stores and locate any new ones out of the city. If you sell must have items people will travel to buy them. More traffic and more polution but the city doesn’t care about that.

    That’s the way a democrat brain functions, red light flashing danger, danger, but the democrats ignore it until disaster strikes.

    Scrapiron (d671ab)

  43. Here in the land of semi-sanity (Central Arizona) business owners can call Sheriff Joe, and his deputies will roust out the loiterers and the trespassers on private property. Of course, there are vocal protestors of the Phil’s leave-them-alone-otherwise-they’ll-have-no-choice-but-to-turn-criminal school of non-thought; it’s a big issue on local talk-radio.

    As for soliciting Day Labor on Public Property, we just had this decision come down this past Friday:

    http://www.aclu.org/immigrants/discrim/36368prs20080808.html?s_src=RSS

    — An unintended(?) consequence of this decision is that it could be interpreted that panhandling is legal on public property.

    Icy Truth (e52465)

  44. #42 Scrapiron

    I’m glad only a few Republican brains thinks like yours does. I’m referring to your statement: “That’s the way a democrat brain functions, red light flashing danger, danger, but the democrats ignore it until disaster strikes.”

    I’m not even sure what that means, but anyways.

    No one is closing stores, providing legal workers are allowed to be hired, it is no different than requiring restaurants to have bathrooms and handicap stalls. We live in a society here.

    Oiram (983921)

  45. #29, no problem buddy. Just pointing out where the attitudes about day laborers ultimately lead. Unless you want to line up these people and shoot them (I wouldn’t be surprised if you guys do, but never mind that) it’s certainly better to encourage them when they try to be productive, don’t you think?

    After all, our drug policies are certainly encouraging them to become drug smugglers, by jacking up the price of illegal drugs. So if we also discourage them from doing productive labor, what do you think they’re going to do — sit down and die? Hell no — they’re going to start making money where the opportunity is, in the smuggling market.

    Coming from the man that states that all we want to do is kill, oppress, or jail minorities … Predictable as the sunset at Asilomar being stunning.

    Racists.

    JD (75f5c3)

  46. #39

    As far as I know, no adult is required to have a work permit.

    Fair and efficient enforcement of our labor and tax laws would reduce incentives for employers to hire illegal aliens. It would also level the playing field for honest, law-abiding employers.

    Stu707 (6e4ad5)

  47. Icy @ #43…
    Well, Cave Creek could make it illegal to stop, and block traffic. If you can’t arrest the dalaborers, arrest the “johns”.

    Another Drew (249078)

  48. Icy,

    It seems to me that decision might also put vagrancy laws in question.

    DRJ (a5243f)

  49. Ya know what? Gas costs too much for me to be running back and forth to the home improvement store all day. From now on I’m going to bring my projects to the store with me, and work on them out front; that way if I need a tool or some parts I can just stroll on inside, pick up what I need, and get right back to work — but they better provide me with some shade, and water upon request; ’cause if I collapse from heatstroke you know there’s gonna be a lawsuit to follow. I mean, Who the hell do they think they are — telling me what I can and can’t do? This is America, dammit!

    Icy Truth (e52465)

  50. #39, oriam…

    So, Home Depot should build a shelter, with restromms, etc., so that a private businessman would not have to provide his own??? On Home Depot property??? At Home Depot expense??? Paying for the utilities with Home Depot funds??? Providing security at Home Depot expense???

    I hope you see the disgust in my post, and reconsider your point….

    thanks…

    reff (959425)

  51. oiram, sorry I misspelled your name….

    reff (959425)

  52. #48 – DRJ

    — Exactly!

    Cop: Are you a vagrant?
    Bum: No. I’m out job hunting.
    Cop: Are you panhandling?
    Bum: No. I’m requesting an advance on my salary.

    Icy Truth (e52465)

  53. #47 – Another Drew

    — A statewide law was passed last year, but our lovely sanctuary-state governor, Janet Napolitano, vetoed it. Now get this: There was a provision in the legislation that said the law would not apply to those younger than 18; that language was included to ensure that teens raising money through car washes would not face criminal charges. Napolitano said that constitutes potentially illegal age discrimination; and, therefore, was one of the reasons for her veto. I’m telling ya, I don’t know how The Onion stays in business; not only can you not make this stuff up, you don’t have to — they do it for you.

    Scarier still is the latest news on our governor: If John McCain wins she might run for his then-vacated Senate seat. She would be the junior to then-Senior Senator (and solid conservative) John Kyl, but still . . . the horror . . . the horror! And I don’t even want to think about who might replace her as Gov.

    Icy Truth (e52465)

  54. I bet nobody but people looking for jobs would be attracted to a day time shelter in the city of LA.
    Will the stores be able to control who hangs out there? I can just imagine the first lawsuit from some guy that is denied access to the shelter.

    MayBee (b0edc2)

  55. Build a new Big Box store, have the footprint for a 100,000 sq ft store. But put a very prominent 10′ x 10′ notch in the store bringing the total square footage down to 99,900. Problem solved.

    kimsch (2ce939)

  56. #50 Ref:

    All I’m saying is that if private legal contractors are allowed to solicit business in front of Home Improvement stores then they should be provided with shade. We are living in a society here.
    By the way, I have not seen a Home Depot that doesn’t provide this. They usually have a restroom and vending machines.

    Now if you tell me that it is illegal for non alien legal contractors to do business in that fashion then I will agree with you.
    And employment laws as well as immigration laws should be enforced at these shelters.

    Ref, Business in this country is forced to do a lot of things that unfortunately they wouldn’t do on their own. You of course are going to tell me “Great, then if you don’t like it don’t go there, let the market dictate…etc.”
    Big business is now for the most part dictating every way business is done. They need to be curbed a little, not a lot, a little.

    “We’re living in a society here people” George Costanza (couldn’t resist)

    Oiram (983921)

  57. #37 And here I’d rather the illegals not get here in the first place…

    I know, I know — you would love it if we would better enforce the laws requiring that employers hire YOU rather than someone who’s willing to work harder for less money. But let’s leave your laziness out of the equation for now.

    #41 — gee, according to that linked story, after a crackdown on illegal immigrants who just wanted to work ordinary jobs started, suddenly a lot more drugs were discovered coming over the border.

    That doesn’t support my argument that cracking down on immigrants who work honest jobs will drive them into smuggling AT ALL.

    And in case you hadn’t noticed, it doesn’t matter how many millions of dollars worth of drugs the government confiscates — there is still plenty more where that came from.

    It’s called supply and demand — arrest and confiscation just creates more opportunity for everyone who hasn’t been arrested. After all, if I had a bale of pot I was smuggling across the border, I’d be THRILLED to see my competition arrested; itmeans I can charge more for my product!

    As a libertarian, I actually wholeheartedly disagree with the proposed ordinance; I just also disagree with most of the xenophobic, counterproductive policy reasons you guys oppose it.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  58. I just also disagree with most of the xenophobic, counterproductive policy reasons you guys oppose it.

    Folks, Phil cannot even imagine a reason why anyone would disagree with illegal immigration that is not racist or xenophobic.

    JD (75f5c3)

  59. Phil,

    I don’t think businesses should be forced to provide services for people who aren’t customers. If a business wants to provide a place for its customers to rest or wait because it perceives a need, fine. But it’s the city’s responsibility to provide public places for people to congregate.

    DRJ (a5243f)

  60. But DRJ, (sorry to butt in here) If a business attracts congregating the way Home improvement businesses do, shouldn’t they provide shelter?

    I mean, the public sidewalks the city provides are not big enough right?
    Without shelter they wouldn’t have enough room thus spilling out into the streets.

    Oiram (983921)

  61. Oiram,

    I think it should be up to the businesses. Let’s put aside the legal/illegal question and assume everyone would be a legal day laborer. Most businesses don’t want people to loiter and get in the way of paying customers, so some stores may decide to provide a special area that lures day laborers away from the entrance. Those stores may see a pool of available day laborers as a good thing because it encourages customers to shop where they can get supplies and workers at the same time.

    On the other hand, some businesses might want to discourage day laborers if their customers are primarily do-it-yourselfers who won’t shop at a store where there are day laborers waiting to harass them about work. Those stores might be more likely to call the police to disperse loiterers on their property.

    DRJ (a5243f)

  62. Anyway, Oiram, as has been mentioned upthread, how do we know all the people who stay in these areas will be real day laborers? Homeless laborers may bring their families to stay with them because there are bathrooms and shelter available, and it may attract homeless persons with no interest in working. Will the city enforce this or is the business at risk of becoming a homeless shelter?

    DRJ (a5243f)

  63. These big box retailers obviously do not know what is good for them. As retailing experts, the City Council has bravely taken it upon themselves to inform the big box retailers what is good for them. In order to comply with what has been determined is good for them, the big box retailers will spend their own money to erect shelters, which if they thought were good for them in the first place, they would have already done without the intervention of the retailing experts at the City Council.

    Ain’t big government grand?

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  64. Does the LA City Council even take into consideration how this might directly effect businesses being forced to enact this policy?

    What if the already frustrated public who are increasingly angry at the lack of law enforcement re illegal immigration, now see privileges being mandated by law at the expense of the businesses toward this same segment of the population, simply decide enough is enough and take their home improvement needs elsewhere – like to their local mom & pop hardware stores? There are plenty of communities where the local hardware is still lumbering on in spite of the serious competition. I would much rather spend my money there to support them than to support an inequitable decision by a clueless city council. Its a shame the box stores would pay the price, literally and figuratively, but so be it.

    If enough people felt this way, big box stores could start to see a profit loss and perhaps their complaints would have more of an impact than an already frustrated public’s which seem to fall on deaf ears.

    Dana (b4a26c)

  65. I find it amazing that people who don’t have a nickel invested in a business, have all of the answers. Two years ago we bought and completely remodeled our own building, 9,000 sq ft. near downtown OKC. When we moved in we placed a park bench near the front entrance for the employees to go outside and take a break. I’ve quit counting the times the cigarette receptacle has been emptied by someone looking for a key. Six months later the park bench was stolen, and we still get the occasional transient who thinks we have a public restroom, because we’re a business. Periodically we get some 1980’s clunker that died left in our. Then we had the folks who came up from south of the Rio Grande to buy used vehicles at auction held nearby and thought that our parking lot was the place to repair them before heading home.
    Oh never mind ……….. I’m sure Phil and Oiram have an answer for me.

    Buckshot (c46fd2)

  66. according to that linked story, after a crackdown on illegal immigrants who just wanted to work ordinary jobs started, suddenly a lot more drugs were discovered coming over the border.

    Uh, no the article said they were finding more:

    because agents were no longer tied up processing illegal immigrants

    And:

    arrest and confiscation just creates more opportunity for everyone who hasn’t been arrested.

    That is such a bizarre way of looking at law and order. I’m going to stick with the whole idea that enforcing the laws encourages people to follow them.

    MamaAJ (788539)

  67. Just to keep piling on, the article I linked was from 2006 and was talking about what happened when Streamline started. From an article dated June 2008:

    We have seen significant reductions and apprehensions, a decrease in the recidivism rate of aliens prosecuted under the program, meaning once they get prosecuted, they stop trying to come in again, and a reduction in smuggling — in smuggling organizations and illegal entries in the relevant urban areas

    MamaAJ (788539)

  68. If a business attracts congregating the way Home improvement businesses do, shouldn’t they provide shelter?

    Some other types of businesses can have lines that go down the block, or lots of traffic lining up at some times. I wonder what laws there are about those cases.

    I’m not being sarcastic or anything, I have no idea if other businesses are typically responsible for things like this. And what’s the difference between a store’s responsibility for customers vs. non customers?

    MamaAJ (788539)

  69. just wonderful….. let’s *encourage* illegal activity.

    at my local HD here in the Valley i have seen drug use, drinking, fights, a minivan with a woman in back, a pimp at the side door and a line down to the corner. calling the cops is a waste of time, because they simply don’t come. the manager told me they have flat out refused to enforce the no loitering & no trespassing laws when we complained to him.

    my wife & i are routinely accosted by “help” that tries to grab things out of your cart to load them for you, and then expects to get paid for their unwanted services. they also make rude, lewd and insulting remarks in spanish, which you aren’t supposed to understand. the look on their face when you reply in kind is priceless, especially when it’s my wife who cuts them down.

    we often drive the extra mile each way to Lowe’s in Burbank where you have none of these marvelous culturally broadening experiences.

    it’s long past time for the Valley to secede, except for the fact that our taxes support the rest of the city, so they will never let us go.

    redc1c4 (ae7a64)

  70. That is such a bizarre way of looking at law and order. I’m going to stick with the whole idea that enforcing the laws encourages people to follow them

    If you want to look at the world with blinders on, then you’ll be blind — that’s all there is to it. Of course, America’s been that way for 40 years now with an immeasurable cost in lives and human freedom. So you’re certainly not alone in your blindness.

    Phil (6d9f2f)

  71. Racist

    JD (5f0e11)

  72. “Alessandra Soler Meetze, Director of the ACLU of Arizona said, “The courts have continually found that day laborers and others who wish to exercise their First Amendment right to solicit employment in public places have the right to do so without fear that they will be discriminated against simply because of the color of their skin or because they are perceived to be foreign born.” (from the link provided by Icy Truth at #43)

    However, do these day laborers have the right to deprive federal, state and local authorities of the income taxes due from the income earned from these “protected” labors. It took the tax code code to get Al Capone, and though I abhor the use of the states power to tax for any reason except revenue, in the case of illegal aliens I would make an exception.

    C. Norris (afde71)

  73. To all of my Conservative friends.

    It could be said that the government should not dictate how big Home Improvement stores run their outside shelters, or any at all. We could say “If you don’t like it, don’t shop their!”. Let the markets dictate right?
    Good points

    However, the market is dictating that their be day laborer’s outside of these establishments. Somebody is hiring them right? Sure most of these people are illegal aliens, but their could be some legal contractors…..no? Why not provide for them coverage for the hot sun and then go after anyone who is illegaly soliciting customers and go after anyone who hires “under the table” day laborers?

    Oiram (983921)

  74. Oiram, did you read my post #49?

    Icy Truth (e52465)

  75. Let’s make sure they do not get sunburned or uncomfortable while breaking the law. This is the most fuckin’ ridiculous proposal I have heard of in a while. No surprise Oiram thinks it is a good idea.

    JD (5f0e11)

  76. Here in the land of semi-sanity (Central Arizona) business owners can call Sheriff Joe,

    Icy Truth, that’s why I am edging toward Arizona and will probably move next year. We’ve had a house in Tucson for three years and my daughter starts U of A in two weeks. California is turning into a third world, at least near the coast. Last week two biology professors had their homes torched in Santa Cruz by animal rights nuts. LA will soon look more like Guadalajara than America and San Francisco already looks a bit like a human zoo. We took some friends from England to see a gay festival in SF last September. Their eyes popped. Ringling Bros never had such acts.

    Mike K (155601)

  77. Mike – Did you catch the inflated ball sack guys. Those are my favorites.

    daleyrocks (d9ec17)

  78. #76 – Mike K

    — I was born and raised in Tucson and attended the UofA (25 years ago). It has its share of troubles, but nothing like the nuttiness of CA.

    Icy Truth (e52465)

  79. Jesus H. Christ Pat,
    Why the hell does anyone stay in CA? I cannot believe that rational people tolerate the sheer moonbattiness!
    Florida aint’ perfect, I’ll be the first to admit it…but this whole sheltering thing….
    yeeeeesh.

    paul from FL (4dd8c4)

  80. Another example of how far from the interests of their purported constituents the Democratic party has gotten.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  81. Please, SPQR, let’s be fair.
    The LACC is a Non-Partisan body.

    Another Drew (249078)

  82. the LACC is *not* non-partisan…..

    they’re in it for themselves and their next campaign fund.

    redc1c4 (ae7a64)


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