First George W. Bush submerges terrorists underwater. Now, we find, he makes them float on water — in floating prisons.
I’d rather be on one of those than, say, the U.S.S. Cole. But that’s just me.
UPDATE FOR THE BENEFIT OF LEVI: Uh, I didn’t mean now, Levi. I meant when it was bombed.
I sort of thought that was obvious.
Pronounced "Patter-EE-koh"
E-mail: Just use my moniker Patterico, followed by the @ symbol, followed by gmail.com
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First off the number of brig cells on most ships is very small and even a conversion for prison spaces would likely have leaked when any such modifications were being done.
Second if you hunt down the group Reprieve, they are among human rights groups fairly recent on the scene since around 1999 in England and 2001 in the US if I recall.
Here they work mainly on Death Penalty issues and are pretty much located near Angola Prison in Louisiana with a few other offices.
From looking at the boards and staffing it seems to be a real thin organization.
It might be a stretch to think that a group with their recent history and minimal resources would break something that the longer established and much better funded groups had not done before them to any large extent.
Simply saying here that a grain of salt may be of value on this issue.
SlimGuy (ea6549) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:01 amAs to your Cole example , even for a sailor getting brig time from a Captains Mast there is no brig facility on that size ship.
If deployed the prisoner would be shipped to a Cruiser at a minimum or more likely a carrier which as big as it is still has only a hand full of cells.
Otherwise the prisoner would be remanded to a shore facility for detention.
Just doesn’t pass the smell test here.
In general a brig doesn’t exist on a ship unless it is big enough to have Marines onboard since they run the brigs.
SlimGuy (ea6549) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:09 amShoot, I’d be almost willing to donate time and money to BUILD a floating prison.
Use Navy standards.
Beats the heck out of the BS they get down at Gitmo.
Bonus: no rent!
Foxfier (15ac79) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:12 amHey the Kitty Hawk just left Japan heading home for retirement.
Lets convert her out and anchor her miles offshore for prison space.
Believe me others have suggested that for civilian prison space alternatives.
SlimGuy (ea6549) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:45 amI love these stories. I want the bad guys to be scared shitless about what we will do to them.
Perfect Sense (b6ec8c) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:58 amSlimGuy,
NYC already has a prison barge, the Vernon C. Bain, in use since 1992.
RickZ (8df857) — 6/2/2008 @ 3:44 amYou think this scares them?
These guys will blow themselves up in a market to kill kids, you think they’re scared of anything we would do to them?
Putting aside your willingness to completely abandon every American principle and virtue, that shit doesn’t even make sense.
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 3:49 amYes, you know there really is a moral equivalency between water boarding, forcing them to listen to Barbra Sreisand, fake menstrual blood, panties on the head and blowing up kids, sawing off heads, feeding people feet first through wood chippers, etc.
What is it with bleeding heart liberals? They want Bush and Cheney to suffer horrible deaths, have no trouble with delivering babies alive and then piercing their skulls to destroy the brains, feeling sympathy for the likes of Mumia abu Jamal and other killers, child rapists, etc. Is it a bad gene? Why don’t they actually move to those worker paradises like N. Korea and Cuba?
madmax333 (d3c813) — 6/2/2008 @ 4:07 amCannot wait for Dubya to declare martial law and deport the moonbat, assorted traitors and jetsam/flotsam of the tingle up the leg media asshats. Oh wait, first Urkel has to have an accident in Iraq.
Yes. Sure. Whatever.
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 4:54 amSounds like a really good idea. Anchor in shark infested waters, feed the sharks daily. I bet there would be no prisin riots.
What exactly is wrong with this, if it’s even true?
Didn’t the terrorist outside the Danish embassy in Pakistan just today demonstrate the proper way to do it?
bill-tb (26027c) — 6/2/2008 @ 5:34 amLevi,
Did this go over your head. But then, everything except Daily Krap goes over your head.
PCD (5c49b0) — 6/2/2008 @ 5:45 amSlimGuy,
Did you catch the sarcasm? If the prisoners were on the Cole, they’d have been blown up by AlQaeda.
Only this in this country does the grasping organization of a candidate (and incumbent bent on moving up) be allowed to disenfranchise voters based on the fact that they are military overseas.
PCD (5c49b0) — 6/2/2008 @ 5:48 amDon’t worry all the Republicans around here that claim to be lawyers, I’ll take this one.
It violates just about every tenant of the American legal system, not to mention a number of international treaties that we signed and agreed to abide by, as well as just being patently un-American as an idea. Holding people in secret prisons (if this isn’t true, it’s happening elsewhere) and regularly torturing them with no charges and with no promise of any sort of trial is not what this country is about. It took thousands of years and billions of dead people for civilization to come up with the great ideas that founded this nation, ideas like equality and due process and basic human rights, yet, inexplicably, it makes you feel good to abandon all of those ideals so we can do these things to…. well, whomever we’re doing them to.
You’ve convicted them of being terrorists simply because your government has told you they’re terrorists, but why do you insist on freeing them of the burden of actually proving their allegations? Isn’t it supposedly a conservative position to not trust the government? Doesn’t the fact that they’re actively trying to maintain the secrecy of these prisons cause you to worry about the authenticity of their claims and accusations?
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 5:50 amI love a little twooothiness in the morning.
Levi – Proof that anyone, anywhere is being regularly tortured? Or should we just chalk that one up to the fevered imagination?
Do you think that any information should be classified?
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 5:56 amI’d like to just note that my big sister is serving, at this very moment, on the U.S.S. Cole. She likes it there. She’s not afraid of being on it.
And you’re stateside, with your family and friends, living in a house, uttering cowardly little platitudes about how you’d prefer to be sitting in a jail cell than to serve in our armed forces.
Way to go, Patterico!
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 6:02 amLevi – You are a mendoucheous small little man, aren’t you?
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 6:05 amLevi’s knowledge of history does not go back to pre-2000.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 6:06 amLevi,
People like you ought to be introduced to terror. How about we Super Glue a yarmeluke to your head and put you in Tehran?
PCD (5c49b0) — 6/2/2008 @ 6:22 amPCD,
You’re like, a really big dork! How about we, like, send you to dork school?
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 6:27 amNow now, folks… DOn’t break Tiny Dancer’s world view too much…
Levi, since you claim to be smarter than those amongst us who claim to be lawyers, I would like to refer to you comment #13.
Care to actually NAME and LIST those which we violate? Especially since New York state operates a prison ship of it’s own.
So list those tenants of our legal system, and the international treaties that prohibit use of ships as prisons… It certainly does make it hard to escape…
Fixed that slight ommision, Tiny Dancer…
Scott Jacobs (fa5e57) — 6/2/2008 @ 6:30 am#14: May we infer that based on your puny response here, your only gripe with Levi’s explanation is whether or not people are “regularly” or “occasionally” tortured?
—
And here on patterico.com, the Conservative Response™ to this possibility is… “so what?” Good to know.
Does fit a pattern though:
Floating prisons… “so what?” They’re illegal… “so what?”
Water-boarding… “so what?” It’s torture… “so what?”
Spying without warrants… “so what?” It’s unconstitutional… “so what?”
Environmental destruction… “so what?” It’s immoral… “so what?”
…
Tom (9e67bd) — 6/2/2008 @ 6:31 amHmmm… Seems Tom’s editors were on break…
Seriously, could you try and use a fact or two, bucky?
You make my eyes bleed with all the stupid you posted…
Scott Jacobs (fa5e57) — 6/2/2008 @ 6:35 amReal quick, you realize I’m not talking about the legality of having prison ships, don’t you?
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 6:39 amTom – You may infer nothing. Quit arguing with the voices in your head.
Levi – How foolish of anyone to think that you might have been discussing the actual topic.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 6:48 amConsidering the post you quoted made NO REFFERENCE to anything but HAVING a prison ship, what else oculd you have been refering to?
Oh, wait, that’s right… You’re retarded, so you just randomly add stuff to what people ACTUALLY say, in order for it to seem like they THINK what you THINK they think.
I keep forgetting your a dumb-ass… Silly me.
Scott Jacobs (fa5e57) — 6/2/2008 @ 6:49 amTom
Floating prisons… “so what?” They’re illegal… “so what?”
Please provide substantive proof of this assertion.
Water-boarding… “so what?” It’s torture… “so what?”
Whether or not it is actually torture is open to much good faithed debate. Given your propensity to infer, you do not seem inclined to engage in same.
Spying without warrants… “so what?” It’s unconstitutional… “so what?”
Please provide substantive proof of this assertion, insofar as how it related to the current debate about international phone calls, and data packets.
Environmental destruction… “so what?” It’s immoral… “so what?”
Please specify the environmental destruction that people are saying “so what?” to.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 6:53 amLevi’s “tenant’ should be spelled “tenet” although his hate america/Bds-consumed lackeys should actually be tenants on prison ships or perhaps in ANWR breaking rocks in the icy arctic.
Love how they throw in the environmental goracle/peta crap. Still wondering why the clinton/gore administration did nada about global “warming”. Oh right cruise missiles directed at asprin factories or empty tents, cigars inserted in a young vagina in the Oral office, selling secrets to Chinese, hiding records in underwear, socks and under rocks, pardons for criminals still on the run (Marc Rich) and so on. Liberal double standards abound. Same old torture/ violation of our basic rights’ canards. What rights have we lost? Oh, I see libs want the fairness doctrine back so they can inhibit conservative free speech and McCain’s love lets them funnel money into Soros’ and other filthy treasonous slimes’ electioneeering efforts but the Swiftboaters are liars for questioning Lurch’s honor even though the facts are not dispelled. If we ever do have another terrorist disaster, imagine the justice meted out if it were to wipe out the US Senate in session (not that I’m calling for that). It would be truly a great loss to have all those candidates for prez lost to posterity or a future Urkel administration. ..imagine Urkel, Hillary, Dodd, Biden, McCain et. al. unable to work their statesmenship magic. Might actually have to replace them with the likes of Chrissie Matthews.
madmax333 (500598) — 6/2/2008 @ 6:53 amThis is that basic read comprehension problem you all seem to be having collectively. I made no mention of a prison ship in MY post, you know, the one that I wrote, but because I quoted somebody else that was talking about a prison ship, then I must be talking about it, too right?
Well, why don’t we go back to my post and see what I said?
Holding people in secret prisons (if this isn’t true, it’s happening elsewhere) and regularly torturing them with no charges and with no promise of any sort of trial is not what this country is about.
I don’t know how much clearer I can make myself. It’s not prison ships that is the issue here, it is the issue of secret prisons where anyone could be being held for any reason and have anything be done to them, with no sort of oversight or process in place to make sure that their basic rights are protected.
Do you get it now? Hooked on Phonics man, give it a shot.
This is brilliant, way to polish off a masterful post.
Uh-huh.
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 7:00 amScott Jacobs, JD:
Sorry guys, I just pulled an all-nighter and my filter that normally converts “knee jerk reaction” into “reasoned thinking” apparently was taking a cigarette break.
Regarding my previous wide-sweeping-generalizations, I’m not even going to try to challenge you on points right now. You win…this time.
Tom (9e67bd) — 6/2/2008 @ 7:03 am(if this isn’t true, it’s happening elsewhere)
Translated from Levi-speak – I may be lying about this, but I know deep down in my dark little soul that it is true, somewhere.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 7:08 amTom – Not a problem. I am not above making wide sweeping generalizations myself. I just expect to either get called on them, or can support them.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 7:09 amHe’s a small, retarded chimp, isn’t he JD?
Scott Jacobs (fa5e57) — 6/2/2008 @ 7:15 amMadmax,
What a broadside! You are the USS Wisconsin of the right. Bravo!
PCD (5c49b0) — 6/2/2008 @ 7:18 amScott, you can say that all you want, but I just demonstrated precisely how poor your reading comprehension is, did I not? In all the exchanges we’ve had, I’ve never misinterpreted your argument as badly as you just did mine, have I?
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 7:21 amYes, Levi. You do that as a matter of routine. You assert motive on a routine basis. You make generalizations that would make Tom blush. I would just point you back to your “everybody hates Republicans” from last week. You do not argue from fact, nor in good faith, nor even make an attempt to. You spew your opinions as facts, and you BDS guides your every position. You are a sad small little person, but for purely academic reasons, are entertaining.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 7:25 amScott – Why do you hate retarded chimps?
Racist.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 7:25 amHey I agree, terrorists prisoners should not be transported on ships, they should be tied to a rope and dragged behind the ship. Is that what the liberals are suggesting in their lame attempt to slam President Bush? The anti-american lame stream media and the anti-american democrats are one and the same, stupid.
Scrapiron (c36902) — 6/2/2008 @ 7:39 amI had a opportunity recently to talk to a man who is active duty US Army, just back from Iraq. He said he captured dozens of of terrorists over there and they all say the same thing. Once they push us out of Iraq they are coming for us in America.
It would be a good thing to avoid this.
tyree (e24364) — 6/2/2008 @ 7:54 amI can think of one good way to not let this happen … don’t elect someone that vows to surrender as soon as they take the Oath of Office.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 8:01 am“It violates just about every tenant of the American legal system,”
Generalization of the most elementary level that avoids having to give specifics to back up a point but maintains sense of righteous indignation. But remember, he’s schooling the lawyers.
“not to mention a number of international treaties that we signed and agreed to abide by”
Which ones? for someone so quick to curse people as dumbasses you sure lack the ability to back up general hysterics with actual facts and details.
“regularly torturing them with no charges and with no promise of any sort of trial”
Again, Mr. “Why won’t you dumbasses debate the facts”, where are your facts, dates, details, proof of this hysterical assertion?
You never did back up daleyrocks’ challenge to you to back up a huge, ridiculous string of ranting, hysterical generalizations, by the way. I think he’s still waiting several threads ago for you do address a single one of his questions to you.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 8:09 am#7 Levi stated …you think they’re scared of anything we would do to them?
Yes I do. That is why most of their leaders are hiding in caves in Pakistan. They don’t seem as eager to collect their virgins anymore.
Perfect Sense (b6ec8c) — 6/2/2008 @ 8:20 amAnd how exactly are they going to do that?
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:08 amThey lived in caves in Pakistan before we started torturing people, too. Kind of invalidates your point.
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:09 amLevi – Actually, they are not going to have to push us out of Iraq, Baracky is going to pre-emptively surrender.
JD (5f0e11) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:14 amNow, then, it doesn’t matter. You’d rather be deprived of all your freedoms and rights than take on the very minute risk of bodily harm or loss of life while serving your country during peacetime. I get it. I call that cowardice.
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:15 amYes I remember going in for a check up to see Dr. Zawahiri the Egyptian at his office in the caves of Pakistan, you know before we started torturing everyone.
“And how exactly are they going to do that?”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:16 amMaybe they’ll work on a plot to fly airplanes into buildings. It’s a novel idea and a longshot but hey one can think of something far fetched and ridiculous.
You, Levi, are a small pathetic sad little man. You speak waaaaaaaay beyond your place in this world.
JD (5f0e11) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:17 am“You’d rather be deprived of all your freedoms and rights than take on the very minute risk of bodily harm or loss of life while serving your country during peacetime. I get it. I call that cowardice.”
Well seeing as how we are suffering under this torturous regime that has no respect for “basic human rights”, is “shredding the Constitution” and basically making a complete mockery of anything and everything decent human beings stand for in this calamitous display of fascistic oppression under the evil Bush regime, it seems like you’re not being very brave by not launching the obviously much-needed armed revolution to produce the coup d’etat freedom loving Americans so desperately need to happen to rescue the world from this tyranny.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:19 am“You, Levi, are a small pathetic sad little man. You speak waaaaaaaay beyond your place in this world.”
I used to get extremely angry at this petty little man to the point where I was cursing incessantly at him, in an overdone “taste of your own medicine,” but realized I was just stooping to his sad, shallow, juvenile level. It’s more fun to just point out what an idiot he is by shoving his own silly little ravings back at him.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:22 amLevi – Name a freedom or Right you have been deprived of.
This latest verbal diarrhea of yours is Leftist Chickenhawk Rant v843.6.
JD (5f0e11) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:23 amAnd how exactly are they going to do that? ~ Levi
Are you that naive? No, don’t answer that.
Once a lib president of your choosing gets into office, and the security measures currently in place in the US are relaxed, there are any number of ways for them to do that. Visas, student or tourist, entering illegally through Mexico or Canada, or just using a tried and true method of hopping a plane over and having it ‘land’ suddenly, wheels up, into something convenient.
They will use the freedoms we enjoy to destroy those freedoms and us. I have never grasped why fools like you see no threat.
RickZ (8df857) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:27 amJack – I suspect you only said what many were thinking. As I have said before, I do not think ignoring sad pathetic little people like Levi is appropriate. They should be called on their mendoucheity every single time.
JD (5f0e11) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:29 amBut RickZ don’t you know that that’s just fearmongering that the eeeeeeeeeeeeeevil Republicans do to justify their blood-for-oil torture regime and distract people from voting in their own best interests?
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:30 am52 – JD. I agree but it gets tiring sometimes. I was born and raised in Philadelphia, a one-party lock-step town of political idiocy. I think it also accounts for how quickly I’m ready to throw down and pull out every gutter level insult when faced with the ranting stupidity of a name-calling little punkass like Levi.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:34 amWith you so far….
… and here comes the stupidity again. I called someone a coward, so now you call me a coward, in the most nonsensical way possible. How witty! What a comeback! I’ve never tried to take Bush out with a sniper rifle, so I must be a pussy! Makes perfect sense.
Try having your own thoughts, stop stealing mine.
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:35 am“I’ve never tried to take Bush out with a sniper rifle, so I must be a pussy!”
The second part is correct regardless of the reasoning.
“Try having your own thoughts, stop stealing mine.”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:38 amYou’ve yet to show anyone that you have even one remotely original thought but you do provide endless amusement to your detractors.
Jack – I can dish it out with the best of them, so I know where you are coming from. The pathetic one is so juvenile, so aggressively stoopid, that I continually find myself wanting to respond, in kind, to his rants.
JD (5f0e11) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:39 am57 – I know. It’s the aggressive part that gets me. It’s like that fly that keeps landing on the lip of your glass no matter how many times you try to swat it away.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:41 amLevi – Typing your version of the chickenhawk rant is far from original. It is pathetic. Calling the host a coward, even more so. That is about what we have come to expect from you. Great job on lowering those expectations.
JD (5f0e11) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:43 amJD- like take this gem and all of its sad, psychological implications:
“… and here comes the stupidity again. I called someone a coward, so now you call me a coward, in the most nonsensical way possible.”
In other words, his attack is perfectly justified, based on what he seems to think is impeccable logic. Someone turns his own words on him to point out how juvenile his “coward” bomb is and look at the toddler throw the tantrum – “stupid”, “nonsensical”. The complete lack of self-awareness is hysterical entertainment.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:46 amYes, Jack K., I do understand. Better to put back up the Gorelick Wall, as nothing really bad happened during Blow Job Billy’s terms as President. And then can that mistitled Patriot Act, which as we all know is taking away the right to read a book in a public library without a hassle or make a cell phone call overseas or electronically transfer money around the world. Oh, and we shouldn’t drill in ANWAR, we shouldn’t build nuclear reactors, but we should use corn as a biofuel instead of using it as a food source. Yep, I really do understand.
I have to go hit my snooze button now.
Rip van Winkle had it good. He didn’t need no stinking snooze button.
RickZ (8df857) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:46 amI’m the toddler? You mindlessly repeated my insult, directed at somebody else, back at me. You could have called me a coward for not trying to assassinate George Bush at any point, you could have done it yesterday, the day before, last week, literally, any time. But you decided to do it only after I did. That’s what kids do. And you want to pretend like you’re not just mindlessly parroting me? Whatever.
Look, I don’t run around calling people cowards for nothing, and it’s not like I’m exactly insulted or offended by what Patterico said, but it is somewhat personal to me, and I think that such a statement is pretty revealing.
Finally, lol at you saying I’m throwing a tantrum. If what I just did was throw a tantrum, then what do you call this:
First of all, dickhead, I’m not a “Bush person” whatever the fuck that is. What’s to debate with adolescent tantrums like “Bush has demonstrated that he has no respect for anyone or anything, not the military, not the tax-payer, not the foreigner, or the Constitution, or basic human rights, or the rule of law, nothing.” Use much hyperbole, asshole? Oh that’s right, that’s your style. Cram as much overbearing loudmouthed over-the-top rhetoric that it would take forever and a day to waste dissected your juvenile rants like “His entire focus has been on repeatedly slamming the military against a wall.” What’s the point?
Try looking in the mirror at what? Fuck you, you fucking adolescent piece of shit. And working? I guarantee I’ve worked harder and at more jobs to earn what I have than you ever will in your fucking life you spoiled little worthless bitch. Scared to debate you? You think anything you say or do scares anyone? Again, fuck you, you pathetic little sack of shit. Your “challenges” and provocations are meaningless because you yourself are worthless. You are a cancer. I cannot fathom that your repulsive personality has not earned you thousands upon thousands of merciless beatings worthless shit-for-life loser fuckheads like you deserve, you meaningless pile of shit.
– Jack Klompus, May 29, 2008
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:10 amFor the record I apologized for reducing myself to your level, but I stand by my opinion of you as an intellectually retarded moron completely and without reservation.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:15 amLevi, if you want to pretend like you’re the sane and rational one while pulling posts from other to show them as vulgar…
Well, I don’t think I need to tell you the speed with which others could post many, MANY examples of posts just as bad, if not worse, by you.
So please, try and remember what happened before you got up this morning. Those events happened, and many of us remember them.
Scott Jacobs (fa5e57) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:15 am“then what do you call this:”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:18 amI call it a well crafted statement of the opinion that I, and most likely many others, have of you.
Except those times when you run around and call our host a coward for nothing.
But, we must all remember that Levi is our self-annointed moral better, and everyone hates Republicans.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:21 amAnd republicans thing all democrats are fags…
Never forget…
Scott Jacobs (fa5e57) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:26 amLet’s see it buddy. I know I’ve sworn in the past, and I’d be swearing now if I wasn’t explicitly told not to do so, but I know for a fact I’ve never degraded into a rant like good ol’ Jack Klompus did. ‘You’re a this, you’re a that, I hate you, I hope you’ve received beatings,’ etc. I’ll pepper some insults to be sure, but the bulk of my posts are dedicated to arguments. Find me one that’s not.
Can you try and remember how I schooled you a few hours ago because you can’t read?
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:30 amAwwwww… Tiny Dancer…
You think you won that? So cute…
Scott Jacobs (fa5e57) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:32 amLevi – You could not “school” your own shadow. Let us look back fondly to the days where Levi informed us that he was our moral better, when everyone hated Republicans, when George Bush allowed 9/11 to happen, when all Republicans think Democrats are fags …. the list is practically endless, Levi.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:33 am“I know for a fact I’ve never degraded into a rant like good ol’ Jack Klompus did. ‘You’re a this, you’re a that, I hate you, I hope you’ve received beatings,’ etc. I’ll pepper some insults to be sure, but the bulk of my posts are dedicated to arguments.”
And I continue to stand by it because it’s about all your posturing merits.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:34 amIf by arguments you mean unsourced assertions of your opinion presented as fact, then yeah. Otherwise, you appear to be using a different dictionary than the rest of the world.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:36 amStill waiting for your response.
It got really quite from you all of a sudden, after all…
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:39 amGreat. I hope you do stand by it. I just thought it would be very useful if we were going to start throwing around the ‘tantrum-throwing toddler’ insult.
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:40 am72 “If by arguments you mean unsourced assertions of your opinion presented as fact, then yeah.”
Don’t forget posting links to 300 page documents that he admits he hasn’t read but still uses it to back his assertions.”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:42 amWhich one of these assertions/bald faced lies, was a sourced and reasoned argument, Levi?
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:43 amI can’t read the actual report because my computer can’t do PDF files, and I probably would only skim it anyway. I have read the summaries,however, but they’re provided by the ACLU, and I didn’t want to open up the whole liberal-linking-to-the-ACLU-web-page on-a-Republican-message-board can of worms. I’d be happy to link to a right-wing website’s summary of the report, but all of them seem too busy obsessing over pastors and plotting boycotts of Dunkin’ Donuts because of a scarf to take any interest in such trivial matters as a sitting President wiping his ass with the Constitution.
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:51 amHow about you read something before you claim it supports your position? Is that too much to ask?
Please provide us documentation of President Bush wiping his ass with the Consitution. This should be fairly simple, given the enormity of the charge.
While you are at it, I would still like to know of even one freedom and Right of yours that has been trampled on.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 11:00 amCan’t go letting facts get in the way of Teh Narrative.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 11:01 amThen don’t past the link to a document that you shove in people’s faces as somehow the proof of your argument WHEN YOU HAVEN’T READ IT!!!! You’re like the amazon readers who write one-star reviews of books by their political opponents that they haven’t read. Nice dodge though getting caught looking like an ass (a real tall order there)with some of your patented, unfunny, juvenile swipes at your opponents on completely unrelated topics.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 11:02 am“a sitting President wiping his ass with the Constitution.”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 11:05 amThese brilliant assertions of course need no detail whatsoever to back up with anything – they’re just a given that should be soooooo obvious to “you Bush people”. Hilarious.
I can’t read the actual report because my computer can’t do PDF files, and I probably would only skim it anyway. ~ Levi
Cliff notes as political opinion.
RickZ (8df857) — 6/2/2008 @ 11:06 amSurely there is a .jpg of President Bush cleaning his taint with the Constitution. Nothing cleans up following a deuce like an important historical document. Charmin and Northern got nothing on the Constitution.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 11:07 amWe await your documentation, Levi, or again, were you allowing your sphincter to do the talking ?
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 11:20 amYou don’t have to read something to know its contents. I’ve gotten A’s on papers I’ve written and tests I’ve taken about books I’ve never read. The ACLU nicely summarized the key points, but I’ve been repeatedly chided for linking to ‘leftist’ websites, so I thought I’d give you the straight up report. What else can I do? Do you want the link to the ACLU summary so you can just dismiss it as leftist propaganda and you can start rolling out your ACLU talking points? What’s the god damn point?
Also, it’s not a dodge, and I freely admitted to not reading the thing, primarily because it is physically impossible for me to do so, so you didn’t ‘catch’ me doing anything. I’m just trying to be practical. And I know that 300 page documents is too much reading for this sort of forum anyway, I linked to it mainly to illustrate a point. That’s also why I gave you the other link, to the very simple picture that very effectively proves how very full of shit this administration is. I’m just trying to help you out.
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 11:21 amUn-freakin’-believable! And you think you and your magic intuition should be taken seriously and not seriously deranged? LOL!
RickZ (8df857) — 6/2/2008 @ 11:24 amIf anyone needed documentary evidence of the degradation of our public school system, this should suffice.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 11:26 am“You don’t have to read something to know its contents. I’ve gotten A’s on papers I’ve written and tests I’ve taken about books I’ve never read.”
HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!! POST OF THE YEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 11:38 amThese are the same clowns that want us to trust them to reform the education system.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 11:46 amJD – better hope that their manifesto of reform isn’t on a pdf document because you know Levi won’t be able to read it. He can still post the link to it and call you an idiot though because you refuse to accept the content of that manifesto that proves his point because he got an A on a paper he wrote about it without reading it. How can you be so stupid JD? And is the Constitution two-ply super absorbent?
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 11:50 amNotice how Levi slinked away after that most recent wave of Teh Stooopid.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 11:52 amJD – of all the myriad of idiocy that that simple-minded little cretin has posted here I really think he will never top:
“You don’t have to read something to know its contents. I’ve gotten A’s on papers I’ve written and tests I’ve taken about books I’ve never read.”
Does it get any better than that? I mean that is just pure gold on so many levels.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 11:55 amYou don’t have to read something to know its contents. I’ve gotten A’s on papers I’ve written and tests I’ve taken about books I’ve never read.
I can’t read the actual report because my computer can’t do PDF files, and I probably would only skim it anyway
My mom always makes me do my real homework before I get to watch cartoons and play video games on the computer, it’s a real hassle having to read stuff, you know, with parents over your shoulder and stuff.
Civics class is taught by this real 60’s hippie professor who was actually at Woodstock and stuff and he is way cool, because, you know, like I can take tests without having to read the whole book and he still gives out grades like candy…he’s not into the whole, you have to earn your grades type thing, by, you know…actually knowing stuff. You just kinda give him a basic hateAmerica rant and …that’s it…you made an A on a test that you didn’t read the book in….this zit cream is wearing off, so I gotta go, my mom is making meat loaf for dinner.
cfbleachers (4040c7) — 6/2/2008 @ 11:57 am93 cfb – Don’t forget you get extra credit for writing “Zinn and Chomsky are like rad man!” even though I only got through the first paragraph of the back of the book and that was the capsule reviews from Mother Jones.”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:03 pmLevi is the embodyment of all that is wrong with the left.
PCD (5c49b0) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:15 pmSo THAT’S how so many think Microsoft is infringing on Free Speech when folks get suspended for profanity/racism…
It explains so much…
Levi, do you ONLY take the ACLU’s word that something supports their fairly narrow view?
Would you have accepted Patterico’s word if he had linked that same document and said it supported the other side of the argument?
Scott Jacobs (fa5e57) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:31 pmWould you have accepted Patterico’s word if he had linked that same document and said it supported the other side of the argument?
No, Scott…Republicans are icky!!!
cfbleachers (4040c7) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:36 pm97 – “No, Scott…Republicans are icky!!!”
Is that why EVERYONE hates them? I think I saw a book that explained why but I couldn’t read it since it was a pdf. I still got an A on the paper I wrote on it though.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:37 pmI just can’t win with you guys, can I? I link to a liberal website, and it’s a biased, unreliable, meaningless source. I link to a an unbiased, reliable, meaningful source, and I’m a dumb liberal because I didn’t read it, even though I know exactly what is contained in the report and didn’t really expect any of you to read it, either, I only included it in my post because someone was insisting there is no evidence that this administration has tortured people.
I would say that a 300 page report by the guy responsible for oversight of the DoJ that documents instances of FBI and CIA agents futilely objecting to their superiors about the legality and effectiveness of the administration’s torture policies, that proves that Ashcroft and Rice knew all about these activities, and that describes individual cases of the people we’ve tortured, pretty conclusively disproves the notion that there isn’t a single ‘shred of evidence’ to support accusations that these jerks running our government are torturing people.
But you can all just keep circle-jerking with your petty insults. Any excuse to not actually think about this stuff, right?
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:39 pm“I didn’t read it, even though I know exactly what is contained in the report”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:41 pmAs much as we appreciate your oh so noble efforts to try to get us to dare engage in the act of thinking, you just keep providing gems like this and our laughter can’t subside long enough to take on this bold challenge.
Levi, petty insults? Odd, we got the impression from your own conduct that that was all you were interesting in.
Guess you need to work on your sense of irony more.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:42 pmActually Jack, how can you argue with this brilliant insight of Levi’s: “I’m a dumb liberal because I didn’t read it, even though I know exactly what is contained in the report ” ?
Does that not sum up Levi better than anything?
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:43 pm“and I’m a dumb liberal because I didn’t read it”
I’d replace the L word with all kinds of more accurate terms that I’m sure your fans here would love to take turns filling in the blank and see who comes up with the best one.
You left out a couple of important words here:
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:44 pmI would say that a 300 page report that I didn’t read by the guy responsible for oversight of the DoJ that documents instances of FBI and CIA agents futilely objecting to their superiors about the legality and effectiveness of the administration’s torture policies, that proves that Ashcroft and Rice knew all about these activities, and that describes individual cases of the people we’ve tortured, pretty conclusively disproves the notion that there isn’t a single ’shred of evidence’ to support accusations that these jerks running our government are torturing people.
Ok, I have to ask: Are you refering to the ACLU???
No, you don’t, and that’s the point.
Without having read it, you can’t know. You have only the ACLU’s word, which should be taken with a grain of salt. The ACUL, after all, works to make sure pedophiles have the right to live next to grade-schools…
Tell you what… We’ll stop with the insults when you address the questions/chalenge posed to you by Daleyrocks several blog-entries ago.
And/or when you start actually using facts instead of grand sweeping generalities. You know… Debate.
Scott Jacobs (fa5e57) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:45 pm102 – He really is the gift that keeps on giving.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:45 pmYeah, actually. You guys have your pillars of credibility, your Rush Limbaughs, your Michelle Malkins, and we have ours. The ACLU has a demonstrated track record and are one of the only groups mounting any meaningful opposition to this joke of an administration.
Of course not, no one that runs a right-wing blog has any credibility with me, none that I’ve seen anyway, and I have seen many. You guys talk about silly things like scarves and pastors and how great it is that the President went on Deal or No Deal.If only you’d actually post documents from time to time.
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:49 pm“If only you’d actually post documents from time to time.”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:50 pmWe actually prefer to read them despite the fact that teacher will still give us an A even if we don’t.
You are arguing with those caricatures in your head again, Levi.
Then why do you bother? You are not the least bit interested in offering a rational differing point of view. You come here to call names.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:52 pmThe ACLU has never met a pedophile it didn’t like. A real pillar of credibility.
RickZ (8df857) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:54 pm“your Rush Limbaughs, your Michelle Malkins”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 12:56 pmThese of course are the only living, breathing examples of anyone who publishes points of view that in any way reflect a “right of center” philosophy.
I’m sure of equally little credibility are Hayek, Hazlitt, Bastiat, Burke, Von Mises, Friedman, Sowell – you know, those intellectual midgets. Oh wait, Levi already knows what’s in ALL of their writings – he got an A on a paper he wrote about them.
No, and I guess your reading comprehension deficiency is flaring up again.
I’ll let you just think about what I was referring to for a minute. If it’s not the ACLU, then what must it be?
I just don’t even know what to say to this. I do know what’s in it. You guys didn’t even know the thing existed. I taught you that. There are all kinds of things happening in the world and within our government that you guys remain blissfully unaware of because you’d rather talk about a god damn scarf. I certainly don’t believe everything I read, but I know a sourced, factual summary from a credentialed organization when I see one.
I don’t need you to stop the insults. You go right ahead. And daleyrocks can argue with me on his own, I’m sure.
Also, facts. Would that include things like, say, a 300 page report about torture from the Inspector General of the DoJ?
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:02 pmWhy would we stop the insults before you have, Levi? Your sense of entitlement to insult others but not be the recipient in return of what you so profanely dish out is just one of the many reasons we find you a joke.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:04 pmI’m curious to know why your computer can’t “do” PDF files. Adobe makes readers for Windows, Mac, Unix etc. Free readers exist and Adobe even has a service that will convert online pdf files for you for free.
bonhomme (a0e80f) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:05 pmAlso, facts. Would that include things like, say, a 300 page report about torture from the Inspector General of the DoJ that I admit I didn’t read but still try to hammer people with to try to back my assertions?
Magically, somehow, I do know what’s in it even though I didn’t read it.
I certainly don’t believe everything I read, but I
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:08 pmknow a sourced, factual summary from a credentialed organization when I see one.will still cite something that I DIDN’T read and claim that I DO believe what’s in a document that I admit that I did not read.Jack – ROFL
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:10 pm“your reading comprehension deficiency is flaring up again.”
Hmmm…this could perhaps be the reasoning behind your inability to actually read a document that you’re going to slam people with as evidence of your assertions. Talk about faulty I.N.T.E.L.L.I.G.E.N.C.E.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:14 pmI’m curious to know why your computer can’t “do” PDF files. Adobe makes readers for Windows, Mac, Unix etc. Free readers exist and Adobe even has a service that will convert online pdf files for you for free.
The computer science room at school has restricted access, it has a parental controls to limit porn sites and downloads of stuff…even if we have to stay after for detention and stuff.
I can still get A’s on papers I read on the Internet, cuz mostly the Wikipedia and Kos Kidz sites have all the stuff, you know…like summary formed already and it’s pretty kewl.
cfbleachers (4040c7) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:22 pmcfb- LOLZ!! Oh like I know! This super hotty Levi who has the same lunch as me is like so smart and stuff. He told me bout how Bush is like stupid and stuff. I wuz like what book is that and he wuz like Oh I know what’s in it but I don’t have to read it and I hate Salisbury Steak its worse than the what Bush does to people!
Levi's Super Sweet Crush! (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:26 pmPlus I can trade Anti-Flag CD’s with my friends in the facebook group “Bush Sucks!” and impress that chick who writes poetry who has the same lunch period as me. She gave me this one poem to read that went “Because I could not stop for death..” and that’s all I read because I KNEW the rest was about how Bush tortures innocent citizens.
Levi's Super Sweet Crush! (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:32 pmPlus I can trade Anti-Flag CD’s with my friends in the facebook group “Bush Sucks!” and impress that chick who writes poetry who has the same lunch period as me. She gave me this one poem to read that went “Because I could not stop for death..” and that’s all I read because I KNEW the rest was about how Bush tortures innocent citizens.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:32 pmKeep it coming you group-thinking morons.
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:50 pmOh we will. In fact don’t even bother to read our commments, since you know what’s going to be in them. Maybe you can write a paper on them – I’m sure you’ll get an “A”, you one true bastion of original thought. Must be being surrounded one’s entire life by nothing but white people 24-7 that gives you so much clear, logical, points of view based on a wealth of real, genuine life-experience. Ha! Go read a book – oh wait you don’t actually do that.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/2/2008 @ 1:55 pmThat would suggest that you were able to consturct a viable sentence in the first place. By leaving out all names, you leave it to the reader to infer absolutely everything.
Thus why I ASKED, you drooling, incompetent dullard.
And you wonder why I asked who you were talking about… The ACLU has on several occations cited a document, which upon reading the document reveals that indeed those limited citations back them up, but the rest of the material disagreed.
Which isn’t surprising… Why would you cite something in a paper that didn’t support your position? If you think all 300 pages agree with the mindset of the ACLU, you really are retarded.
I know it is rathe crass to “go there”, but I have no other word that fits. You would have to be retarded to think that a) the ACLU summary is unbiased and b) all 300 pages support the ACLU’s position.
And more to the point, you can’t possibly know the summary is factual unless you read paper. Without reading it, how the hell do you know it isn’t a 300-page, illustrated dirty story?
You take for granted that a very left-leaning organization has been absolutely truthful with you. That’s as insane as assuming a very RIGHT-leaning organization is being absolutely truthful with you.
“Trust, but verify”.
You fail at word two. Way to go, dip-shit.
Scott Jacobs (fa5e57) — 6/2/2008 @ 2:11 pmYou heartless and nefarious neocons lack all soul and refuse to recognize the true genius of Levi in your midst. Do you feel like big men picking en masse on someone who stands up to your actual talk of facts? He who is without sin should throw the first stone. And he who digs graves for others, falls in himself or perhaps people who live in glass houses should not throw stones?
madmax333 (1e682f) — 6/2/2008 @ 2:13 pmHow dare you insult/belittle that great institution of the “american” civil liberties union? So what if they are more prone to worrying about the rights of the poor widdle mistreated islamomutants at guantanamo? We are our brothers’ keepers, eh?
And if the ACLU doesn’t stand up for groups like NAMBLA, pray tell who will protect the rights of pedophiles? Children are old enough to have sexual desire for adults. If they’re old enough to be aborted or to pee, they are old enough to satisfy dirty old men also. /
Must be really tough that those here who think with a legal mind and actually read Law books are mental midgets compared to an incandescent mind like Levi’s, who can absorb books unread and ace tests on the. Even that great liberal JFK could only digest knowledge by speed reading the contents.
C-c-c-a-a-n-t we all just get along? Where is Love2008 when you need him? Btw Teddy’s brain surgery was successful so I suppose it is time for Dubya to compromise/cave in more to Ted’s desires. And news in that Bo Diddley expired today at 79.
Peace out, bro’s.
madmax – thanks for the obit on Bo. Heard it here from you first. God rest a musical giant’s soul. I hope they’re already brushing off a pedestal in the Smithsonian for a rectangular guitar tribute.
Jack Klompus (b796b4) — 6/2/2008 @ 2:42 pmThis trick of linking to articles he has not read, nor can explain the significance of to his arguments, has been Levi’s MO for months.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/2/2008 @ 2:43 pmScott, in fact, I think it was on this blog some time back that we saw a debunking of the ACLU position on the PATRIOT Act.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/2/2008 @ 2:45 pmHis is a towering intellect indeed SP. But it doesn’t matter becuase he gets A’s on papers he writes about books he hasn’t read, thereby discrediting the need to actually read material that you use to back your argument. I think having to do that is like imperialist or something. I tried it actually, I read: “It was the best of times it was the worst of times. It is a far far better rest that I go to than I have ever known” and loudly proclaimed that Dickens sucks period and anyone who disagrees is a neocon groupthink moron.
Jack Klompus (b796b4) — 6/2/2008 @ 2:47 pmGood Lord:
You don’t have to read something to know its contents. I’ve gotten A’s on papers I’ve written and tests I’ve taken about books I’ve never read.
That should be emblazoned on a plaque and hung in the Education Wing of the Moron Museum.
Paul (90f626) — 6/2/2008 @ 5:23 pmPaul: We’ve been enjoying that one all day.
Jack Klompus (b796b4) — 6/2/2008 @ 5:27 pmJack: I saw that.
Paul (90f626) — 6/2/2008 @ 5:49 pmI like how he hit the road with “Keep it coming you group-thinking morons.”
Jack Klompus (b796b4) — 6/2/2008 @ 5:52 pmWhich had followed Levi’s: “But you can all just keep circle-jerking with your petty insults. ”
He is pretty predictable.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/2/2008 @ 6:32 pmOkay, let me walk you through this again.
Here is what I said:
I link to a an unbiased, reliable, meaningful source
You think I’m referring to the ACLU. I’m not. The link is on the ACLU website, but all that’s presented in the actual link is the report itself, alone and naked, in all of its unbiasedness, reliability, and meaningfulness. I consciously didn’t link to the ACLU summary or ACLU blog posts because you guys freak out whenever I cite or link to a liberal website. Remember, this all started when someone asked for a ‘shred of evidence,’ and I provided it with two links, and that’s just the two most recent shreds, both released in the past 2 weeks. You guys can work yourself into a frenzy because I didn’t read it, which isn’t something I ever tried to hide or deny in the first place, but my ultimate point is absolutely proven. There are many pieces of evidence that prove this administration is torturing people, viciously and in secret, and I provided two official government documents to support that. Not a blog post from DailyKos, not a dispatch from MoveOn.Org, but official government documents. Documents none of you would even know existed had I not told you about them.
Do you understand?
When did I say such a thing?
If you mean the ACLU is biased against torture and evil, stupid Presidents, I would agree with you. Sometimes, in American politics, one side is just, simply, wrong.
When did I say that?
Why would the ACLU misleadingly summarize a document that they themselves provide in its entirety?
And like I’ve said, the ACLU is one of the most credible and important organizations in the country. They don’t succeed by making shit up, and I know bullshit when I hear it. Nothing in this document or the summary is all that surprising or new anyway, we’ve known field agents were objecting up the ladder from a variety of sources, and it wasn’t long ago that we learned all the top Bush officials, including Rice, knew and authorized these ‘techniques.’
I take nothing for granted. Like I said, this stuff is all very verifiable, most of it is stuff I already knew. I know they’re being truthful, that is what they do. And I don’t need to have you qualify that statement, I’ve judged them for myself. I trust myself more than I trust you to tell me who is lying to me, would you not say the same about yourself?
You are the one that confessed to being ‘duped’ by George Bush, are you not?
Please.
The entire Republican party’s existence is dependent on unquestionably believing whole-heartedly every single thing that George Bush says.
Yeah, yeah. What else you got?
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 7:44 pmNo, Levi, the ACLU is not “one of the most credible and important organizations in the country”. That’s pretty hilarious.
But that’s rather typical of your vapid, incoherent nonsense.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/2/2008 @ 7:56 pmOf course, that you are vouching for the credibility of the ACLU’s summary when you have not read the document is just yet another example of your continual attempt to make yourself into the biggest buffoon on the internet.
A tough competition, but you’ve broken into the top 10 in this thread.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/2/2008 @ 7:58 pm“The link is on the ACLU website, but all that’s presented in the actual link is the report itself, alone and naked, in all of its unbiasedness, reliability, and meaningfulness.”
And amazing how meaningful it would be to you if you actually took the time to read it.
” and I provided it with two links”
to documents which you did not read.
“You guys can work yourself into a frenzy because I didn’t read it,”
What frenzy? You’re in the frenzy because what miniscule smidgen of credibility you had with anyone here disappeared with your own words and the subsequent laughable attempts at justification like “You don’t have to read something to know its contents. I’ve gotten A’s on papers I’ve written and tests I’ve taken about books I’ve never read.”
“There are many pieces of evidence that prove this administration is torturing people, viciously and in secret, and I provided two official government documents to support that.”
Present them all and your analysis of the facts contained therein. You provided a link to a document that you admitted that you didn’t read.
“Nothing in this document or the summary is all that surprising or new anyway,”
How would you know if you didn’t read the document?
“I take nothing for granted.”
Except an entire 300 page document that you did not read but still present as evidence vindicating your opinion.
“The entire Republican party’s existence is dependent on unquestionably believing whole-heartedly every single thing that George Bush says. ”
Jack Klompus (b796b4) — 6/2/2008 @ 7:59 pmThis remark needs no reply.
Why would the ACLU misleadingly summarize a document that they themselves provide in its entirety?
Because they are counting on buffoons like you who will defend their summary without reading the original document.
Paul (90f626) — 6/2/2008 @ 8:05 pmThere must be an error in my TV guide, as it claims that Comedy Central is on channel 72 … but I find it here instead.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/2/2008 @ 8:06 pmLevi – I would argue with you but you are a coward. You won’t back up your assertions with facts as you have demonstrated once again on this thread. There have been a number of torture threads on this blog before you began commenting in which liberals participating and they were able to produce very little hard evidence against the Bush administration. Maybe your mad skilz and ability to intuit the content of material you haven’t read make you a better researcher. I think not and believe you are just spitballing once again.
You KNOW nothing.
I thought your sister was an only child.
daleyrocks (ae5951) — 6/2/2008 @ 8:14 pm“There are many pieces of evidence that prove this administration is torturing people, viciously and in secret, and I provided two official government documents to support that.”
Levi – Let’s hear about those documents sonny and don’t make any more assumptions about what people here know about. You haven’t been here long enough and missed a lot of interminable torture threads. You’re also a moron for making such assumtions and an idiot in general.
daleyrocks (ae5951) — 6/2/2008 @ 8:20 pmIt would not be difficult for Levi to learn of the many previous times that the ACLU misrepresented something.
If Levi actually bothered to read a link …
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/2/2008 @ 8:24 pmBTW, I’ve a comment trapped in spam blocker hell if anyone gets a chance.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/2/2008 @ 8:26 pmYeah, because that’s exactly what happens here.
“Truly, your’s is a dizzing intellect..”
Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec) — 6/2/2008 @ 8:29 pmHow do you KNOW???
You haven’t fucking read it, you thundering moron!! How the HELL can you even THINK about making claims about what’s in the document if you haven’t even LOOKED at so much as 10 pages of it??
Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec) — 6/2/2008 @ 8:32 pmYou guys can work yourself into a frenzy because I didn’t read it, which isn’t something I ever tried to hide or deny in the first place, but my ultimate point is absolutely proven.
How does one know if one’s point is proven if one hasn’t read the supporting-of-the-point documentation?
MAGIC!
Paul (90f626) — 6/2/2008 @ 8:33 pmMaybe Levi went outside the ring to try to find a foreign object under the apron.
Jack Klompus (b796b4) — 6/2/2008 @ 8:36 pmThe entire Republican party’s existence is dependent on unquestionably believing whole-heartedly every single thing that George Bush says.
Oh yeah. That’s why he’s been slammed on his education bill, his immigration stance, and some of his choices for high-level government positions by Michele Malkin, Rush Limbaugh and our host, among many others.
Because we unquestionably believe whole-heartedly every single thing he says.
Oh, and the Republican Party was around before the Civil War, genius. It rose from the remnants of the Whig party; and will be around long after George Bush is taking a dirt nap.
I woud cite links, but no need; I’m sure you already know they contain without actually reading them.
Paul (90f626) — 6/2/2008 @ 8:45 pm“I woud cite links, but no need; I’m sure you already know they contain without actually reading them.”
Jack Klompus (b796b4) — 6/2/2008 @ 8:48 pmAre you kidding? His teacher already gave him an A on a paper he wrote for social studies class about how George Bush started the Civil War because he hates black people.
Are you serious The cheapest Windows box out there can download Acrobat Reader. Try Adobe’s web site, that’ll get you started.
I’m beginning to believe you are insane. Do you have some kind of Divine Sight, enabling you to see the contents of written material in your mind’s eye? How can you possibly have anything beyond the shallowest of knowledge of a document without reading it?
Don’t tell me: California Public School?
Your statement is less a paean to your intellect than it is a condemnation of your teachers.
Steverino (102c0e) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:09 pmBut, apparently you believe everything you don’t read.
Steverino (102c0e) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:15 pmMan…swinging off of my balls.
Good night, losers.
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:23 pmMan…swinging off of my balls.
LMAO!!!!!!!!!!
He’s got a dozen raw eggs splashed on his face, and he’s licking it off, declaring, “What a great meal!”
He has no idea what’s coming…that this comment will stick to him like stink on shit:
Paul (90f626) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:33 pmI know it’s coming. I might not have read that report, but I can read you people like a book. That will follow me around as long as I comment here, and I’ll stand by that shit forever. I’m not embarrassed. Carve it into my headstone. A bunch of Republicans think I’m a moron? I must be doing something right.
Levi (76ef55) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:39 pmPaul – I already posted that gem in other places and have had conversations with people where I’ve said, “Oh get this remark I saw on a comments section…” because it richly deserves to be spread throughout humanity as a testament to just…wow…so many things. Of all the volumes of monumental, jaw dropping stupidity that have emanated from the mind of that moron, I think that line is his magnum opus, his Citizen Kane, his Sgt. Pepper. His parting remark is a priceless signature on his work.
Jack Klompus (b796b4) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:41 pm“I might not have read that report,thereby destroying any credibility I may have aspired to but I can read you people like a book that I never opened but still know all of its contents.”
“A bunch of Republicans think I’m a moron?”
Jack Klompus (b796b4) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:46 pmDon’t sell yourself short! I’m sure that assessment of your intellect is a true bipartisan effort. Even the Greens and Libertarians think that you are a colossal idiot.
Yep, he’s an “A” rated BS artist.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/2/2008 @ 9:59 pmYou, sir, win the internet…
Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:14 pmYou’re proud that you claim intimate knowledge of something you didn’t read…
Steverino’s right. You are insane…
Scott Jacobs (d3a6ec) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:15 pm“I’ll stand by that shit forever.”
Jack Klompus (b796b4) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:17 pmI don’t think “by” is the correct preposition.
“That will follow me around as long as I comment here, and I’ll stand by that shit forever. I’m not embarrassed. Carve it into my headstone.”
Jack Klompus (b796b4) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:19 pmIt truly is a touching moment when someone wishes their legacy to be “Here lies Levi…a complete fucking idiot.”
Levi wrote: I just can’t win with you guys, can I? I link to a liberal website, and it’s a biased, unreliable, meaningless source. I link to a an unbiased, reliable, meaningful source, and I’m a dumb liberal because I didn’t read it, even though I know exactly what is contained in the report and didn’t really expect any of you to read it, either, I only included it in my post because someone was insisting there is no evidence that this administration has tortured people.
I can’t speak for anybody else here, but I don’t link anything I haven’t read. And I don’t accept someone else’s word about details that most people are too lazy to read. It’s too fun to catch people trying to lie.
For example, when Joe Wilson was telling the MSM one version of his trip to Niger and his certainty that VP Cheney saw and ignored his report, and how he told a completely different story when he was under oath before the Senate Intelligence Committee. Or when Cindy Sheehan made believe that the Duelfer Report proved Saddam didn’t have any intention of building nuclear weapons — in fact, Charles Duelfer transcribed taped conversations in which Saddam spoke of his goal of keeping the framework of his abandoned nukes program, and waiting out UN sanctions before proceeding anew.
Nowadays, my study ethic is paying dividends because I can say with certainty that Scott McClellan is lying when he parrots the oft-repeated falsehood that President Bush ‘didn’t keep his word’ about firing anyone who “leaked” Valerie Plame’s identity. McClellan says that Bush initially didn’t say anything about ‘breaking the law,’ and that he only added that once he knew Rove was likely a source about Plame. But in his very first public comment about the entire kerfuffle in 2003, Bush said plain as day:
Don’t let other people do your thinking for you, kid.
L.N. Smithee (5fef25) — 6/2/2008 @ 10:42 pmI can’t speak for anybody else here, but I don’t link anything I haven’t read. And I don’t accept someone else’s word about details that most people are too lazy to read. It’s too fun to catch people trying to lie.
L.N., I wholeheartedly concur. There is nothing more sublime to me than to smack comment trolls upside the head with their own links.
Paul (90f626) — 6/3/2008 @ 2:28 amHe’s got a dozen raw eggs splashed on his face, and he’s licking it off, declaring, “What a great meal!”
I wrote that comment, and it took Mr. Sunny only six minutes to prove my assertion (after he supposedy left the site for the night):
Absolutely priceless.
And Scott, you nailed it with this line:
I agree with Patterico; why would you ban Mr. Sunny?
Paul (90f626) — 6/3/2008 @ 2:36 am“[M]ight not have read”? That’s not what you said, but way to move those goalposts.
How so? You don’t read books. It takes like too much time and stuff — and it’s really hard.
Of that I have no doubt. Unfortunately for us, when you “stand by that shit forever”, you pick up the stench of feces which then assails our nostrils.
Here’s lies a moron not embarrassed to be a moron.
Poor choice of a verb there. ‘Know’ would be more accurate.
I love how because you are a moron, you must be doing something right. Is that something you were taught in a book that you didn’t read, too?
RickZ (8df857) — 6/3/2008 @ 3:51 amLevi is the bestest moron troll ever. I know this because I did not read it in a book.
JD (5f0e11) — 6/3/2008 @ 4:49 amI don’t know what’s more disturbing: the fact that Levi really believes he has knowledge of documents he’s admitted to never reading, or that he’s wearing his ignorance like a badge of honor.
Trust me, Levi, it’s not just Republicans who think you’re a moron based on your conduct in this thread. The more intelligent liberal posters here are undoubtedly ashamed to count you in their numbers.
Steverino (544172) — 6/3/2008 @ 5:30 amI wonder what handle Levi uses on other blogs or if he bothers to frequent places where he actually preaches to the choir?
Just read one 40 year old lady teacher’s succinct statement elsewhere that she’s more dem than gop and obama truly inspires her. A nation of clueless sheeple.
So will Hill wihdraw? Did Obama campaign agree to help with her debts? Will other shoe actually drop tomorrow regarding Michelle O?
madmax333 (71493a) — 6/3/2008 @ 5:47 amLest we forget, one of Levi’s opening salvo’s on this thread was calling our host a coward.
“You don’t have to read something to know its contents. I’ve gotten A’s on papers I’ve written and tests I’ve taken about books I’ve never read.”
Followed shortly thereafter by …
That will follow me around as long as I comment here, and I’ll stand by that shit forever. I’m not embarrassed.
I am going to have to cover my monitor and keyboard with plastic. Projectile coffee can really mess them up.
Thank you, Levi, for such aggressive idiocy.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/3/2008 @ 7:43 amIf an M-80 is set off in Levi’s jock, is that a product of a Rethuglican conspiracy or of Levi’s own not reading of the instructions on how to use the damn thing?
PCD (5c49b0) — 6/3/2008 @ 7:52 am170 PCD – Why would Levi be wearing a jock?
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/3/2008 @ 7:57 amWhere else would he keep his Mentos?
Scott Jacobs (fa5e57) — 6/3/2008 @ 8:04 amActually, Levi is the poster child for the “useful idiot” described by Lenin.
Naive, uninformed and childlike, he believes what his handlers tell him to believe. He doesn’t need to actually read any document, he already knows what it says.
Of course he does, they all do. Like trained seals they know when to bark, know when to clap, know when to balance the beach ball on their noses.
This, my friends…is what a braindead liberal looks like. The lack of critical thought, the willingness to accept inane arguments and then regurgitate them, the unyielding stances, the constant harangue against our country…symptoms all of leftist brain death.
The sound and the fury is unleashed on anyone and everyone who isn’t “lefitst enough”. They eat their own, as witnessed by the treatment of left of center and soft hearted Joe Lieberman and well to the left of center and not soft-hearted Hillary Clinton.
Once paragons of liberal chic, Bill and Hillary were savaged by the hate machine, as weasels ripped their flesh.
It’s quite a spectacle. I actually feel sorry for the traditional liberals and truly like the ones who visit here. Their gentle souls and articulate ways are replaced by the snarling, venom-spewing, knee jerk bile and hatred of the far left.
Once, the ability to reason and the encyclopedic grasp of all pertinent facts made the traditional liberal a substantial debating opponent. It was a badge of honor to be able to create, hold and defend a traditional liberal opinion because it was based upon sound reasoning and worthy alternatives.
Today? “Badges, we don’t need no stinkin’ badges”…”we don’t need to read, we already know what it says”. A slogan more fitting could not be found.
We don’t need the facts, we already know what we are supposed to say.
cfbleachers (4040c7) — 6/3/2008 @ 8:06 am“Their gentle souls and articulate ways are replaced by the snarling, venom-spewing, knee jerk bile and hatred of the far left.”
It’s a shame also that they have hijacked the term “liberal” and have voided it of all its original meaning in the classic sense. I think “progressive” has stuck long enough such that its adherents are blind to its irony.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/3/2008 @ 8:22 amI remember back in the teenage years, sure it was fun to be “punk rock” about the government and take on this anarcho posture but for God’s sake my dad came and picked me up after the Dead Kennedys concert. It just seems like the left side of the spectrum has embraced an ideology with all the depth of a Black Flag lyric while by proxy placing themselves on the side of bloodthirsty fascists motivated by a bastardized fundamentalist religion.
Levi is indeed a great example of the outcome of a lousy education that poo-poo’s rigorous study of facts, figures, dates, history, you know actual knowledge, and is replaced by this warped, overbearing sense of self and the barking of little red book style slogans. It’s frightening how easily a demagogue could whip the Levi’s into an irrational frenzy and who knows what in its wake. Oh shit….who’s the Democratic nominee again?
JD (75f5c3) — 6/3/2008 @ 8:32 am
JD – I like the flair you’ve added to it. I think it merits engraving on a novelty plaque. Would make a great gift to give to teachers at Christmas. I would definitely mail one and pay the shipping to send it to the superintendent of the school system Levi attended.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/3/2008 @ 8:34 am176, That quote encapsulates the Liberal idea of education. The Kennedy bill without McCain.
PCD (5c49b0) — 6/3/2008 @ 8:47 am177 – I started a master’s program in history at Temple University is Philadelphia a couple of years ago and left after the mandatory “Third World History”, taught by an aging ditz who loved Mao and claimed that all of the deaths during his reign were because of bad weather. I remember one of the students in the class, a Ph.D. candidate, said to me in the elevator after class, “See, I can tell you’re really smart because you actually know history.”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/3/2008 @ 8:54 amIt seems to me, that if I’m such a liar and a moron, each of you should be more than capable of proving it by pointing out how what I’ve said is in the document is incongruent with what is actually said in the document.
Have any of you taken that most obvious of steps? You could, you know, actually prove to the entire internet that I have no credibility, as opposed to simply assuming I don’t.
You talk about this like you’ve proven something, as if you ferreted the fact that I didn’t read the thing out of me with some cunning argument, as if I was pretending to have read it, as if you went into the specifics of the document and I couldn’t keep up and you caught me flat-footed. I freely admitted to not reading it. None of you tricked me, none of you argued me into a corner. If I told you that I had read the whole thing, you’d all be sitting there believing it.
Again, my point in posting the link wasn’t to have an in-depth discussion about its contents, but merely to point to a ‘shred of evidence’ that supports allegations of torture against this administration, and of course, that whole argument has to be dropped so we can all call the liberal a retard. This whole, pathetic thread is proof positive that you people need distractions like you need air.
Now who wants to follow me around for the next couple of weeks derailing threads?
Levi (76ef55) — 6/3/2008 @ 9:25 amYassuh Masser Levi-
madmax333 (bd0876) — 6/3/2008 @ 9:34 amYou be brilliant polemicist and show these ignorant bush-luvin’ racist crackers what for. Would that their lives were united by the starry bounds of logic. Wed your fate to the wisdom of Levi and let him woo you with his Mensa IQ.
The truth is that Levi would make an excellent candidate for the US Senate from Montana. He’d fit right in with fat Teddy, Bobby Byrd and the pompous asses that obfuscate everything political.
179, Levi, you are a liar in that there are nearly countless instances where you were proven wrong with your own citations that you failed to either read or to understand what you were posting. You saw a few words you liked and posted.
You are so stupid that you don’t realize when you’ve been hoisted upon your own petard.
PCD (5c49b0) — 6/3/2008 @ 9:54 am“if I’m such a liar and a moron”
IF???
“You could, you know, actually prove to the entire internet that I have no credibility, as opposed to simply assuming I don’t.”
You did a fine job proving it yourself.
“If I told you that I had read the whole thing, you’d all be sitting there believing it.”
So you deserve credit for admitting that you don’t read what you present as evidence of your point instead of just outright lying. Interesting hierarchy of reward.
“Again, my point in posting the link wasn’t to have an in-depth discussion about its contents which I’d obviously be incapable of having since I didn’t read it, but I’ll still use it as a source, claim that I know what’s in it and call you a moron.”
“that whole argument has to be dropped so we can all call the liberal a retard.”
Well yeah, duh, you are.
“Now who wants to follow me around for the next couple of weeks derailing threads?”
Sure let’s do it.
“You don’t have to read something to know its contents. I’ve gotten A’s on papers I’ve written and tests I’ve taken about books I’ve never read.”
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/3/2008 @ 10:10 amThe FBI now keeps a list of over 900,000 names belonging to known or suspected terrorists, the American Civil Liberties Union said today.
But if the ACLU’s figure isn’t accurate, it’s also unlikely to be off by that much. Last September, the ACLU notes, the Department of Justice’s Inspector General reported the FBI watch list was at 700,000 names, and growing at 20,000 names per month.
The ACLU says they “extrapolated” from those figures to determine the list’s current size. ACLU’s Barry Steinhardt added that the group had spoken privately with people familiar with the watch list, who told them the 900,000 figure was not outlandish.
..
Update: The FBI responded late Wednesday afternoon. The number of people on the watch list, he said, was around 300,000, and only 5 percent are U.S. persons. Kolton noted that the list is “regularly reviewed for accuracy.” Last year the bureau removed 100,000 records “related to people cleared of any nexus with terrorism,” Kolton said.
But hey, if the ACLU says so and they summarize the report…then it should be taken at face value. I mean, we don’t actually need the FACTS to forumulate an opinion…we already KNOW they are right.
cfbleachers (4040c7) — 6/3/2008 @ 10:15 ammadmax333 wrote: Just read one 40 year old lady teacher’s succinct statement elsewhere that she’s more dem than gop and obama truly inspires her. A nation of clueless sheeple.
I’ve often heard people describe great coaches as being able to inspire people to charge through a brick wall. The problem is, it is yet to be proved that any human being — no matter how much adrenaline he or she mustered — can actually accomplish this.
Obama has not shown any intention of using his skills of inspiration to do anything but send people rushing against the same old walls.
L.N. Smithee (0931d2) — 6/3/2008 @ 12:55 pmL.N. – Don’t forget. Michelle will be taking some of your pie. And making it easier for millionaires to keep fresh fruit around the house for their children.
JD (75f5c3) — 6/3/2008 @ 1:26 pmJD I don’t think that conversation is helping Michelle make her Harvard Law student loan payments NOR does it pay for her kids to go to ballet. Obviously you don’t realize that Barack Obama will require you to work. He is going to demand that you shed your cynicism.
Jack Klompus (cf3660) — 6/3/2008 @ 1:29 pmYou really don’t understand how the world works, do you? The minute you admitted you hadn’t read the document, you disqualified yourself from serious debate. No one has to disprove you: it’s up to the person making the claim to prove it. Since you have admitted you haven’t read the material, any claim you make is automatically assumed to be false. Now you get to reap the fruits of your idiocy, in the form of mockery from your intellectual superiors.
The fact that you claim knowledge of something you haven’t read is prima facie proof that you have no credibility. Is this such a hard concept for you to understand?
Steverino (74937d) — 6/3/2008 @ 7:55 pmExactly, Levi, you proved your lack of credibility all by yourself … without any help … in your own words.
And it was hilarious.
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/3/2008 @ 8:12 pmWhat are the chances of bringing a libel suit against the Guardian for this report? It’s obviously a lie. One of the main problems with GOP is they capitulate to moonbat crazy reports like this by refusing to engage.
It’s damaging to our national integrity. It gives pinheads like Levi a bumpersticker moment.
To hell with that.
I am being taxed for the common defence. The Government has for all intents and purposes, an unlimited budget for this sort of legal action.
The Guardian would be humbled or perhaps even made to pay. Can you think of any media outlet more deserving of a crippling, possibly fatal, libel action?
papertiger (ab2f41) — 6/3/2008 @ 8:46 pmPapertiger, suppress free speech? What? Do we look like Canadians?
SPQR (26be8b) — 6/3/2008 @ 9:03 pm