Nora Ephron on Race, Gender, and Racist White Men (Updated x2)
[Guest post by DRJ]
The NY Times’ Politics Blog The Caucus has surveyed the internet regarding the Democratic race between Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. There seem to be as many opinions as there are blogs. The one that most interested me was Nora Ephron’s 4/20/08 entry at the Huffington Post (emphasis supplied):
“Here’s another thing I don’t like about this primary: now that there are only two Democratic candidates, it’s suddenly horribly absolutely crystal-clear that this is an election about gender and race. This may have always been true, but weeks ago it wasn’t so obvious — once upon a time there were eight candidates, and although six of them withered away, their presence in the campaign managed to obscure things. Even around the time of Ohio, when there were primarily three candidates, the outlines were murky, because Edwards was still in there, picking up votes from all sectors.
But now there are two and we’re facing Pennsylvania and whom are we kidding? This is an election about whether the people of Pennsylvania hate blacks more than they hate women. And when I say people, I don’t mean people, I mean white men. How ironic is this? After all this time, after all these stupid articles about how powerless white men are and how they can’t even get into college because of overachieving women and affirmative action and mean lady teachers who expected them to sit still in the third grade even though they were all suffering from terminal attention deficit disorder — after all this, they turn out (surprise!) to have all the power. (As they always did, by the way; I hope you didn’t believe any of those articles.)
To put it bluntly, the next president will be elected by them: the outcome of Tuesday’s primary will depend on whether they go for Hillary or Obama, and the outcome of the general election will depend on whether enough of them vote for McCain. A lot of them will: white men cannot be relied on, as all of us know who have spent a lifetime dating them. And McCain is a compelling candidate, particularly because of the Torture Thing. As for the Democratic hope that McCain’s temper will be a problem, don’t bet on it. A lot of white men have terrible tempers, and what’s more, they think it’s normal.“
That’s the gist of it, although Ephron slings still more insults at white men in the final paragraphs when she opines that for Hillary to win, she has to convince Democrats that she can attract more “racist white male voters” than Obama can.
I’m not generally into identity politics. One reason I like the internet is that you can’t tell someone’s gender, race or religion unless they tell you and even then you don’t know if it’s true. It’s easier to understand the real person from the written word because writing forces us to get to the core of who we are and what we believe. In this case, Ephron’s writings obviously expose her as someone who has no respect for white men. She comes across as angry and bitter, some of the same qualities she sees and denigrates in white men.
I agree with those who view the Democratic Presidential race as good news for the Republican Party. Clinton and Obama are beating each other up more effectively than Republicans could do at this point in the election cycle. Ultimately, I expect many Democrats will come together behind a nominee but, for now, they aren’t a gathering of true believers. They seem to have a fair share of bitter, angry, and disillusioned believers.
UPDATE 1: Tom Hayden and his peaceful, organic wife join Ephron’s club.
UPDATE 2 – ABC News jumps on the bitter bandwagon: “Dems’ Bitter Path to the Bitter End”
— DRJ
Nora Ephron…”She comes across as angry and bitter…”, as does her NYT stable-mate MoDo.
Are there any female writers at the NYT who don’t fall into that classification?
Another Drew (f9dd2c) — 4/23/2008 @ 4:02 pmAnd, as the leading journal of the country, what does that say about our society as a whole?
Well, blacks are voting for Obama at around a 92% clip and Hillary’s got the white women vote locked down. If there is any voting bloc that has reliably weighed the candidates on their relative merits, it’s been white males who Ephron so casually denigrates in her rant. If Ephron’s claim had any merit, white males wouldn’t be voting Democrat at all. The only suprising thing is that someone bothered to publish this drivel that’s so easily refuted.
the wolf (3cd7f8) — 4/23/2008 @ 4:23 pmIt’s easier to understand the real person from the written word because writing forces us to get to the core of who we are and what we believe.
God bless you, DRJ. What an amazing comment on not only your posts but on the subject of this one as well.
The Democratic party will eat itself over its own orgy of unreasonable PC identity politics. Does Nora not understand that there is no room for her in Obama’s Anti-Semitic “church”?
Apogee (366e8b) — 4/23/2008 @ 4:36 pm#1 Another Drew:
Well, I was going to ask who the heck Ephron was, but you’ve answered that.
And I thought Dowd was bitter…
EW1(SG) (84e813) — 4/23/2008 @ 4:43 pm“because writing forces us to get to the core of who we are and what we believe”
Well said.
EdWood (c2268a) — 4/23/2008 @ 4:48 pmTom Hatin’s shrew of a wife, behind the peasant blouse and granny glasses and Nora Zectron, the superball of wall-bouncing lunacy…screeching shrill “us vs. them” slogans leftover from Woodstock, have become stale and trite reminders of what happens when you leave raw meat out to decompose for 40 years.
The “heady” days of Haight-Ashbury have become the graying, wrinkled, sepia photos of a tedious and tiresome Baby Boomer home movie we are forced to endure for the umpteenth time.
Tom Hatin’ is so passe’, he’s so irrelevant, there aren’t words left to describe his nobody wife’s nothingness. He’s Mr. Irrelevant, and she’s the invisible screeching sidekick.
Hasn’t the day passed when even the most imbecilic hard leftist sees the idiocy of screeching about “typical white males”? Is there anything more puerile? With less traction for all but the terminally braindead? Does anyone get inspired by this pap any longer?
Oh, I forgot. When your a cultist, brainwashing is forever. I pity the braindead zombies for whom that crap was aimed to motivate.
cfbleachers (4040c7) — 4/23/2008 @ 4:52 pmWhy does she only date white men? Is she afraid of miscegenation or something?
Glen Wishard (02562c) — 4/23/2008 @ 5:00 pmSay Nora dissed only half as many people as
Mike Myers (31af82) — 4/23/2008 @ 5:30 pmObama did with his “typical white person” comment.
An example of someone who hasn’t bothered to read the statistics. According to The New York Times, white male voters in Pennsylvania divided their votes rather evenly, 53% for Mrs Clinton and 46% for Mr Obama.
Yet, apparently the 53% who voted for Mrs Clinton hate blacks, and the 46% who voted for Mr Obama hate women, or so Miss Ephron would have us believe.
In the Democratic race, white men are the only ones without a demographic candidate: women have Mrs Clinton, and blacks of both sexes have Mr Obama, and both of those groups have been rather substantially locked up in voting for “their own kind.” White men don’t really have a demographic candidate to support, and they’ve divided roughly evenly — but they’re the hateful racists and sexists.
Typical liberal “thought.”
Dana R Pico (c36902) — 4/23/2008 @ 5:32 pm…apparently the 53% who voted for Mrs Clinton hate blacks, and the 46% who voted for Mr Obama hate women…
And those who didn’t vote at all … hate both? Man, it’s tough to keep score these days.
ras (fc54bb) — 4/23/2008 @ 5:52 pmI disagree with your characterization of Hayden’s column; it’s totally unlike Ephron’s (you should excuse the expression) fit of hysteria.
Most of Hayden’s column is devoted to pointing out that Hillary was in her younger days intimately involved in the leftist causes of the day, and rubbing shoulders with plenty of people who were at least as radical as the Weather Underground, and theat her campaign should be the last ones to criticize Obama for any radical associations–and a call for the lefties to boycott her campaign if she does become the nominee. He doesn’t criticize anyone for being a white male. (I suppose that might be a little hard for him to do, seeing he is one.) He’s just criticizing Hillary.
kishnevi (3cf898) — 4/23/2008 @ 5:53 pmI just watched Olberman and I am now convinced that the Baracky’s are completely off their rocker. He stated, unequivocably, that Hagee is McCain’s spiritual advisor. The Left truly is unhinged.
JD (5f0e11) — 4/23/2008 @ 5:54 pmKishnevi,
I meant that Hayden and his wife joined Ephron’s club for bitter, angry, and disillusioned Democrats. Her white-man-hating club is a subset to which I agree Hayden doesn’t belong.
DRJ (a431ca) — 4/23/2008 @ 6:25 pmDana R Pico,
I suspect Ephron would respond that the white men that voted for Obama are reasonable fellows. Those who vote for Hillary or McCain are the racists.
DRJ (a431ca) — 4/23/2008 @ 6:26 pmNora Ephron’s understanding of men must certainly be qualified by the fact that.. well she’s been married three times. And she wrote ‘When Harry Met Sally’. Surely that counts for something, considering all the black people in that movie (and all her other movies). Bow before her superior intellect and wisdom!
Cobb (995ecc) — 4/23/2008 @ 6:44 pm“…white men cannot be relied on, as all of us know who have spent a lifetime dating them. “
Dear Nora, bitterness is a very unattractive quality and only gets uglier with each passing season. Seriously, consider that it just may be the very thing that has kept you dating for a lifetime.
And you know what? Some of us have enjoyed decades of loving very reliable white men.
Dana (ba17e0) — 4/23/2008 @ 6:44 pmI still don’t agree. Ephron is bitter at the whole process. Hayden is bitter at Hillary, and only Hillary. And certainly still quite illusioned about Obama.
kishnevi (db1823) — 4/23/2008 @ 6:47 pmp.s. its a curious thing that someone so bitter has made such sentimentally gentle films like ‘You’ve Got Mail’ or ‘Sleepless in Seattle’ and ‘Hanging Up’.
Cobb, all I came up with was the black sidekick to Tom Hanks in ‘You’ve Got Mail’….
Dana (ba17e0) — 4/23/2008 @ 6:49 pmDidn’t Hayden run for office in California? I have no idea what result was but think it was in his days married to Hanoi Jane. I guess the attraction she had for him was the radicalism.
In any case, being a misanthrope, misogynist AND a racist, I have no idea whom to vote for at all. The only woman in the race is the Big Pussy who is a mulatto boohoo obamalamadingdong. So I guess she’s the odd woman out.
madmax333 (aa367c) — 4/23/2008 @ 7:31 pmI second the comment about Nora Ephron’s movies. She should try harder to hang onto a husband maybe. Her movies are about courtship and that’s all. She and Dowd are getting pretty long in the tooth, too. I recall her once commenting that she had been groped when she was an intern in the Kennedy White House. That was a long time ago.
Mike K (86bddb) — 4/23/2008 @ 7:41 pmKishnevi,
Your idea of Ephron’s club membership (if she had one) is more precise than mine. I think Democrats who are bitter, angry, disillusioned, or any combination of the foregoing can join. After all, aren’t Democrats supposed to be the party with the big tent?
DRJ (a431ca) — 4/23/2008 @ 7:42 pmEphron’s marital history according to IMDB:
DRJ (a431ca) — 4/23/2008 @ 7:48 pmSorry, DRJ. I am, after all, still officially a Democrat. And I’m certainly disullisioned about the party and angry at the pols and the MSM. Not sure about bitter–I am a white male, but not bitter about God and guns.
But there is no tent big enough to hold me and Ephron or Hayden in it. Not even a circus tent.
kishnevi (a117ab) — 4/23/2008 @ 7:54 pmI’ve seen Nora speak. She had the same loaded comment about white guys, conservatives… Republicans as a lower sub-class. I was a little surprised, disappointed that she would air her views that way.
Hayden basically positions the Hillary of today and yesterday. He tries to reprimand her for her negativity against the celestial one. Actually, her past radical ties seem downright tame compared with Obama’s evolving persona. Hayden frames her strategy to bash Obama as a response from her years of conservative beatings. I had actually thought that this week myself (..but not in any agreement with Hayden, longform).
Aside from her work at the SF law firm (the Black Panther ties), she more or less exercised her right to oppose Nixon and Vietnam. Tom Hayden is certainly more reasonable in his approach than Nora Ephron. And what is she, auditioning for the left’s version of Ann Coulter?
Happy Hayden also omits the fact that Barack’s radical tendencies aren’t from 3 decades ago, but are of the here-and-now variety. Pastorpal Wright. The Wife. His votes in the Senate. The literally off-color remarks.
As a Typical White Person, Tom Hayden is just another vote for Obama.
Vermont Neighbor (04023f) — 4/23/2008 @ 7:55 pmRe 22:
kishnevi (a117ab) — 4/23/2008 @ 8:03 pmAnd Heartburn is her version of the Bernstein marriage.
Vermont Neighbor–Hayden didn’t mention Barack’s current radicalism because he’s glad about that. His beef with Hillary is that she stopped being radical, and for him radical=good.
kishnevi (a117ab) — 4/23/2008 @ 8:07 pmI happen to be watching the 1953 movie version of Cole Porter’s “Kiss Me Kate.” A theme song for Nora Ephron appears in Act One. “I Hate Men!”
MIke K (86bddb) — 4/23/2008 @ 8:10 pmI don’t think she’s overly fond of husband # 2, which is ironic given that he and Woodward are liberal icons.
DRJ (a431ca) — 4/23/2008 @ 8:11 pmWhilst married to Jane, she used the profits from her fitness book/video to buy him an Assembly, and then a State Senate seat, both from the People’s Republic of Santa Monica.
Another Drew (8018ee) — 4/23/2008 @ 8:24 pmThen she married Ted.
Tom’s intellectual high-point was the Chicago Seven Trial.
kishnevi: I appreciate your views and expressions, politically speaking. It’s thoughtful and real… kudos and all.
yes, Tom loves that aspect in ‘Bam. Just as he loved it in Jane.
Vermont Neighbor (04023f) — 4/23/2008 @ 8:26 pmThe question all of us should be answering at this point is, Is America ready for a black president? I mean HONESTLY. The way I see it the answer will be demographically divided between those who say yes and those who will try to spin this question into another racist issue. If Barrack Obama was white, with all the things going for him: More states won, ahead in pledged delegates, still ahead in popular votes. With so much appeal and likeability not just in America but world over. If he was white, would this contest still be going on against this Hillary Clinton, with all her negatives, baggages and scandals. Adding the fact that he, an unknown quality has overthrown the Clintonite dynasty within one year of just stepping into the political limelight. Its clear to me that people secretly love Obama more than Clinton, they dislike her but are still bound to choose her over a fresh, charismatic, intelligent candidate who will surely make a good commander in chief. The question comes as recent polls revealed that alot of people, 8 percent, have problem voting for a black candidate. 75% voted for Hillary instead of Barack. So I ask again, is America really ready for black president. Think this through before resonding.
love2008 (d2a57f) — 4/23/2008 @ 8:58 pmThis is the maint point Hillary is trying to make to the Superdelegates.
Vermont Neighbor (04023f) — 4/23/2008 @ 9:03 pmNora seems to be under the misguided impression that white males get more than one vote per person according to her piece. She should be corrected.
“To put it bluntly, the next president will be elected by them”
Somehow she can divine that the last half percent that put the winning candidate over the top in the general election was the white male vote? Why not the hispanic vote or the black vote or female vote if all votes count equally. She is a cartoon.
daleyrocks (906622) — 4/23/2008 @ 9:04 pmI think America is perfectly ready for a black candidate. Obama’s problem is not that he is black, his problem is that too many people think that if he wasn’t black he would not have a candidacy.
Frankly, I think the same of Hillary, if she was not a woman and one who had rode the coattails of Bill, she would not be a candidate either.
It is hilarious to me that these two – each of whom is playing off the Democrats’ love of identity politics – have sucked the oxygen out of the room from more qualified Democratic candidates.
SPQR (26be8b) — 4/23/2008 @ 9:06 pmThe question all of us should be answering at this point is, Is America ready for a black president?
Shit, love2008, nobody told me Barack was black. I just think he’s a lousy candidate as is Hillary. I think Barack’s a bigger danger to the country and would rather have McCain run against Hillary in case he loses.
daleyrocks (906622) — 4/23/2008 @ 9:10 pmlove2008 – Unlike you clowns on the Left, some of us could not give two flying farts about Barcky’s skin color, or Hillary’s gender. Their policies suck, and would be a disaster.
JD (5f0e11) — 4/23/2008 @ 9:15 pmYes to America and a black leader for the new millenium. No to a racist who plays the race card while claiming to be the post-race candidate.
Robert Johnson of BET said that Barry would not even be a candidate now, if as a white man. Not enough experience. (Kid glove treatment in the Illinois Senate).
Your question? Yes to a qualified, thoughtful experienced candidate. We’ve yet to see that politican. Obama’s resume is a projection, and it’s certainly not a reality. I feel sorry for your dream as it’s truly based on guilt, hope, agendas, trends . . . he’s a shell. A false prophet.
Vermont Neighbor (04023f) — 4/23/2008 @ 9:17 pm#31 is obamalamdingdingdong black or half black/half white? Would a WHITE man even be in a position to be the possible nominee given the paucity of experience Barry Hussein has? I don’t know as that ambulance chaser the Breckgirl was only a first term senator also and didn’t even bother trying to run again because he was a likely loser for Senate seat. And yet he did manage to be Lurch’s running mate. We can recall that Dan Quayle took much grief for his own youthful demeanor despite having far more experience in Congress than any of the current dems running.
madmax333 (aa367c) — 4/23/2008 @ 9:20 pmI am certain that no Republican would escape scrutiny into a past that included a white racist pastor, a terrorist on the order of Timmy McVeigh friendship, a corrupt Rezno as $$$$ backer.
Personally I don’t give a rat’s asp if anyone thinks I’m racist because I refuse to vote for a marxist black power mutant a-hole like B. Hussein. And I fail to see why his appearance and speeches make some people swoon and get tingles down their legs (Matthews and Olberdork come to mind). Let’s not forget that substantively Obambi is lost while talking about taxes being fair, despite fact that increasing capital gains rates decreases the amount taken in, etc. And of course he’s so brilliant that he won’t take advice from military regarding Iraq- just pull out regardless of consequences.
America will NEVER be ready for a pussy like Hussein, who incidentally is the only woman in the race. Dudette is afraid of Hillary and yet thinks he can handle world’s dictators? Not very likely. I hope he is buried in a landslide vote. Who are the racists if about half of white boys have voted for him and 90+ % of blacks do? And in my opinion YOUR opinion that Barack will surely make a good CIC is total camel dung. He would gut the military and raise taxes for more BS social programs that make health insurance more expensive and harder to obtain. America does NOT need an affirmative action punk as POTUS.
Well said folks! Do you know of any black, experienced, no wrong ties, eloquent, savvy, trustworthy, intelligent politician you would rather vote for, for president. Not minding his color. (Although I dont subscribe to affirmative action or pity, guilt or anything like that. I believe a man has to be chisen becos he can deliver, not because it is his due. But since race has come into this, lets take it head on. Respectfully, intelligently and objectively.)
love2008 (d2a57f) — 4/23/2008 @ 9:37 pmDo you know of any black, experienced, no wrong ties, eloquent, savvy, trustworthy, intelligent politician you would rather vote for, for president.
No, but I play one on TV.
daleyrocks (906622) — 4/23/2008 @ 9:51 pmIn any election we don’t get a whole lot of choices. As for Barry Obama… No.
Vermont Neighbor (04023f) — 4/23/2008 @ 9:57 pmlove2008, yes, I know of several black politicians that I would vote for before voting for Obama. But they are not running this year.
SPQR (26be8b) — 4/23/2008 @ 10:19 pm“One reason I like the internet is that you can’t tell someone’s gender, race or religion unless they tell you”
I remember once in a comment thread, the late SG claimed to be able to divine a poster’s race solely from the posts.
gp (17f247) — 4/23/2008 @ 10:19 pm“Do you know of any black, experienced, no wrong ties, eloquent, savvy, trustworthy, intelligent politician you would rather vote for, for president?”
Colin Powell.
gp (17f247) — 4/23/2008 @ 10:21 pmAnd I’d pick Condi over HRC and BHO, but not against McCain.
gp (17f247) — 4/23/2008 @ 10:24 pmHayden does exactly what he accuses Hillary of: he enumerates her long history of leftist causes, but only to make his point. Yeah, that’s the story.
Patricia (f56a97) — 4/23/2008 @ 10:38 pmComing late to the debate, but. . .
Do you know of any black, experienced, no wrong ties, eloquent, savvy, trustworthy, intelligent politician you would rather vote for, for president.
Colin Powell, Condoleezza Rice, Ken Blackwell, J.C. Watts, Michael Steele. . .
JVW (835f28) — 4/23/2008 @ 11:50 pm“it’s suddenly horribly absolutely crystal-clear that this is an election about gender and race. ”
Is this supposed to be like NEWS?
The libs defined this race months ago on many campuses as they asked openly if students were going to vote for a black or a woman.
I predict, that it won’t matter, they will vote for a man, even a confirmed geriatric over gender or race.
Besides Hussine is but a half breed! He is no more black than he is white, but more than willing to throw his white side in the sewer in order to pander votes. THAT ALONE SHOULD DEFINE WHAT HE REALLY IS!
One more time I will mention that one crazy guy, is the only candidate that STILL tells you what he will do to make actual changes in our life and the nation.
America does not desire change, they only desire that they can upgrade to HD TV when such is all that is offered.
Change?
Nope, we will all enjoy paying 9$ a gallon for fuel by Dec.
Ask these candidate’s today if oil is a commodity, like sugar, taters, lettuce, or, is oil a utility like water, electricity, sewer service?
As a reminder, fuel is the only expense that has doubled in cost within two years. Seemingly poised to double again this year alone. The production cost has remained the same, ME oil still only costs producers 2-5$ a barrel. The brokers on wall street could not be happier getting 120$! BTW 100% of all COL increases with the cost of fuel to deliver all goods to you, the ultimate consumer. Biz pass such on with higher prices or surcharges.
So what’s it’s gonna be for you, gender, color of skin, or a really old guy. Or an old guy with a REAL platform of REAL change? ( currently being totally ignored by the MSM as if he died years ago).
Maybe, just maybe it is time for a bit of crazy in the White House. Explore how much REAL change we can. Throw him out if needed, but I’ve a feeling most of those that express desire such change, will not cast a vote for such.
Hang on for one very wild ride.
TC (d16524) — 4/24/2008 @ 2:49 am#31:
I’ve thought it through before “resonding.” [sic]
You are an idiot.
EW1(SG) (84e813) — 4/24/2008 @ 6:13 amTC – Let me guess … Nor Laup ?
JD (75f5c3) — 4/24/2008 @ 6:28 am#50,(EW1(SG). It is “responding” not “resonding”. I guess your stupid brain couldnt figure that out for you. Its not your fault, its your parents who failed to teach you how to conduct yourself in public. Who is the “idiot” now? You sound like a racist. You should be sent back to the dark ages. You dont belong to this generation.
love2008 (d2a57f) — 4/24/2008 @ 1:59 pmlove2008, calling everyone who disagrees with you a “racist” is not the sign of an intelligent person.
SPQR (26be8b) — 4/24/2008 @ 2:05 pmI meant number 49 not 50. Lets act like adults.
love2008 (d2a57f) — 4/24/2008 @ 2:05 pm#52, maybe you should first read what was said in the 49th comment before jumping into the matter. Calling someone you hardly know an idiot is not necessarily an intelligent way to express your disagreement. All those who responded did so repectfully, even when they disagreed. To which I said in number 39 “well said folks” This a public interaction forum where everyone is free to air his or her views, not a madhouse. So lets all behave ourselves. Politics is not everything.
love2008 (d2a57f) — 4/24/2008 @ 2:17 pmSo calling you an idiot is racist? You need a new dictionary. And some style.
SPQR (26be8b) — 4/24/2008 @ 2:18 pmlove2008 – This is not a public forum where everyone is free to air his or her views. This is privately owned blog site and comments are moderated at the whim of the blog proprietor who does happen to operate a fairly open comment section unlike those of most liberal blog sites.
daleyrocks (906622) — 4/24/2008 @ 2:43 pmSPQR. I take it you are a very matured, thoughtfull, person. For your sake I take back the “racist” comment. Maybe it was a little harsh. Hope you wont use that agaisnt me in the next election. LOL.
love2008 (d2a57f) — 4/24/2008 @ 3:51 pmI think that both Democrat candidates should come right out and say it:
As Obama drags his party off to the far Left, pure in thought and mind, all I can say is: “Say hello to Goldwater and McGovern when you see them.”
Kevin Murphy (0b2493) — 4/24/2008 @ 9:29 pm