You know the old saying: if you don’t have anything nice to say, start a website.
John Ziegler, outgoing KFI talk show host, followed this advice. He doesn’t have anything nice to say about KFI’s John and Ken — and he says it here. (Via Roderick.)
There’s nothing particularly edifying about watching one guy viciously snipe at some other guys.
But it is pretty entertaining.
Pronounced "Patter-EE-koh"
E-mail: Just use my moniker Patterico, followed by the @ symbol, followed by gmail.com
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Did someone say “MASSIVE EGOS”?
Alta Bob (15dc2c) — 1/11/2008 @ 7:19 amThat was pretty amusing Patterico.
SPQR (26be8b) — 1/11/2008 @ 7:27 amI pretty much gave up on KFI years ago. I am sorry to see Zieglar go.
tired (561cf1) — 1/11/2008 @ 7:32 amNothing like burning all your bridges in one great big blaze of glory. hahahahaha Thanks for the laugh.
no one you know (1f5ddb) — 1/11/2008 @ 7:36 amIt was a cheap shot on Ziegler’s part to bring up Ken Champeau’s alleged homosexuality.
tired (561cf1) — 1/11/2008 @ 7:39 amtired, I thought he did it fairly tastefully. Well, except for one line … 😉
SPQR (26be8b) — 1/11/2008 @ 7:53 amWhat a whining little waste of Earth’s precious living space. If petulant [derogatory term for male homosexual] fits anyone, it fits him.
nk (dda711) — 1/11/2008 @ 8:01 amP.S. And I don’t know about “entertaining”. This is entertaining. Wait for the punchline. It’s worth it.
nk (dda711) — 1/11/2008 @ 8:10 amI quit listening to KFI when those two got really going. Talk radio must be one of the worst places to work in the western world. Unless, of course, you’re Limbaugh. I like Bill Handel (mostly on Saturday, not the morning show) but that scene with the kids is surreal. I listen to him once in a while and have noticed that he seems more conservative than he was a few years ago. One night time host I liked was Mr KFI, who got himself fired and went to KABC but is now gone as best I can tell. He actually had one of the better explanations of the California power meltdown back in 1996. That was before blogs and it was a good source for facts on the situation.
KABC made a stupid move when it forced Dennis Prager to move because he wanted a national show. He went to a small station in Glendale, which then got a couple of other major conservative hosts and is doing fine, at least during the week. Now KABC has syndicated O’Reilly, and Hannity in those time slots showing how badly they misjudged the market.
I’ve heard Ziegler a couple of times. I don’t know if this was the wisest career move for him but it will probably stir up some interest and the old saying goes, “There is no such thing as bad publicity.”
Al Rantel got jerked around at KABC after he came but he seems to be doing quite well with his evening slot. A year ago, the college GOP at UCLA got defunded by the student government. Rantel had the chapter president on his show and his listeners sent in about $35,000, making the GOP club the best funded at UCLA. That sounds like a devoted audience.
I wish Ziegler well. John and Ken are noise.
Mike K (86bddb) — 1/11/2008 @ 8:18 amThe Hour of Power! And that was in 2000. My favorite is Doug McIntyre especially when he had his night show. I’m afraid they will be getting rid of him next. What a lost. McIntyre is smart, literate, a long time republican and conservative, and is quite familiar with the Hollywood television and film business.
tired (561cf1) — 1/11/2008 @ 8:25 amWouldn’t it be great to have Justin Levine comment on this post?
JVW (13af87) — 1/11/2008 @ 8:35 amWhat do you have against Justin?
tired (561cf1) — 1/11/2008 @ 8:44 amI agree with tired. Considering the harem mentality that seems to exist in the vaudeville act which is KFI, this post alone could hurt Justin (because of his association with this site).
nk (dda711) — 1/11/2008 @ 8:48 amTired,
Justin is close to Bill Handel. I don’t foresee a comment from Justin on this at all.
There is some truth in what Zig wrote about the other hosts at KFI. I was more into KFI during the David B. (Ass)Hall era.
I never listened to Zig. The hosts I did listen to were Rush, Handel, and Hugh Hewitt.
PCD (5c49b0) — 1/11/2008 @ 8:52 amMike K.
Mr. KFI, Marc Germain, has moved on to a NPR station. I forget which one. The reason was more freedom to do what Marc wanted to do with the show.
Fight On! (a USC Dad)
PCD (5c49b0) — 1/11/2008 @ 8:53 amDid anyone read The Atlantic article by David Foster Wallace? If you assume that was 10% true and that Ziegler’s screed was 10% true, I think that you start to get a pretty good sense that John and Ken should be known as Dog and Pony. Maybe John and Ken will sue John Z. for libel. Now that would make for good radio.
Fritz (babcd1) — 1/11/2008 @ 8:55 am16, Fritz, from my personal dealings with “Joke and Cliche”, they both are as Phoney as $3 bills with Bill Clinton’s face on them.
PCD (5c49b0) — 1/11/2008 @ 8:59 amI just realized that my link to David Foster Wallace’s article is deficient for two reasons: it’s black and white, so you don’t get to appreciate his odd use of color coding, and it’s truncated.
Here’s a better link (you may need to register).
Fritz (babcd1) — 1/11/2008 @ 9:01 amFritz,
Wallace’s piece is from the view of a long winded, condescending Liberal who, if he had his druthers, would consign Talk Radio to Hell and force people to only read and accept his opinions as fact.
Maybe try working between the studio glass and the incoming phone lines for an extended time like I did, Fritz. You might get a different opinion or just harden you Left winger’s hate for the opposition.
PCD (5c49b0) — 1/11/2008 @ 9:07 amMy favorite line from the Wallace piece:
I have to admit that I enjoy John and Ken in the same way that some people enjoy professional wrestling: I don’t care if it’s fake. I mean, it’s show business, of course it’s fake. After reading his screed, I beginning to think that Ziegler is a bit naive and a bit self-important.
Fritz (babcd1) — 1/11/2008 @ 9:08 amPCD,
One should be careful when one “assumes” the political bias of a particular individual.
I believe Fritz made it clear that he understands that Wallace has a bias when he wrote, “If you assume that was 10% true.” Yet, you still had to write, “You might get a different opinion or just harden you Left winger’s hate for the opposition.[sic]” A sentence that implies that you either believe that Fritz somehow “owns” David Foster Wallace — since the “you Left winger’s hate” is likely “your” and thus possessive — or you are implying that Fritz himself is a Left Winger. I can assure you he isn’t, not that it matters.
I respect that you have real world experience, and have issues with the Wallace piece, I don’t respect the giant inductive leap you made regarding Fritz’s sentiments.
Christian Johnson (babcd1) — 1/11/2008 @ 9:37 amWhat does matter is your willingness to assume what you consider the worst in people merely because they point to a source you may not like. That, my friend, is a typical example of Internet Anonymity Syndrome where flame wars begin at the same point where ignorance and anonymity meet.
Please invert my second and third paragraphs, for narrative consistency.
Christian Johnson (babcd1) — 1/11/2008 @ 9:38 am22, and please picture me sticking my tongue out at you in defiance of your condescension. :->
PCD (5c49b0) — 1/11/2008 @ 9:57 amJohn and Ken’s practice of replaying the three o’ clock hour segment of their show at five is pretty lazy.
Tom (ad8087) — 1/11/2008 @ 12:02 pmYou mean my $3 bills are phoney?!?!
Long ago gave up on J+K. Larry Elder and Hugh Hewitt are on at the same time and have far better shows. Gave up on Bill Handel too. Zeigler was pretty the only KFI host I could stomach.
Viktor (348f17) — 1/11/2008 @ 12:03 pmI’ve been listening to J&K for years, and always thought it was a known inside joke that they were full of shit when it came to the causes they chose to champion. It’s always seemed to me that their show was always about ratings first. If illegal immigration wasn’t such a hot topic issue for SoCal residents, they wouldn’t bother to tap into it, but it is, and they do.
I’ve never once thought they were giving me “the truth” on an issue, mainly because when you start to do any form of research on an issue they start hitting heavily (by research, I mean reading multiple articles, and staying away from the LA/NY Times) one tends to find gaping holes in their timelines and conclusions. The obvious comparison is the Ramos/Compean debacle, which they clearly were willfully ignorant about.
Anyone who has listened for a long time, knows exactly how thin skinned John is, and that Ken was a closeted homosexual (pretty obvious to anyone who lives down here). I wouldn’t be surprised to know that Ken is a bottom (he’s very submissive) and that would probably explain a lot about his on air personality.
That said, Zigler’s tirade comes off as petty at some times, and vindictive, which is his right. I think he’s putting a little too much “principle” into his side of things. I enjoyed his show when I had the chance to listen to it as well, but I think longterm listeners to all the KFI shows know full well what the score is with that station. So all of this shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone.
gabriel (6d7447) — 1/11/2008 @ 12:06 pmGabriel,
Do you have to push David E’s buttons?
Fritz (babcd1) — 1/11/2008 @ 12:10 pmHonestly Fritz, I can’t think of anything I might say that wouldn’t push his buttons.
gabriel (6d7447) — 1/11/2008 @ 1:03 pmFor Ziegler to bring Kobylt’s wife’s physical appearance into this is really low class and has nothing to do with anything between John Ziegler and John Kobylt. That kind of thing reveals a lot about the person that says them. Same for the comment about Handel’s daughters.
Mark1971 (c92bfa) — 1/11/2008 @ 1:04 pmBoth Kobylt’s wife and Handel’s kids have been made part of their shows, much to the dismay of listeners. So, I wouldn’t say criticism of them was off limits.
tired (561cf1) — 1/11/2008 @ 1:24 pmI would.
Btw, I *hope* this post doesn’t reflect badly on Justin. I admit the possibility didn’t even occur to me. In any event, let it be clearly understood he had nothing to do with it.
Even I am not endorsing what Ziegler said. It’s just weirdly entertaining whenever a disgruntled employee lets the vitriol fly on his way out. Same with Andres Martinez’s exit, or a horrible traffic accident. You can’t not look.
Patterico (23930c) — 1/11/2008 @ 1:29 pmWhat does John’s wife’s weight have to do with the issues between Kobylt and Ziegler? What does it have to do with any of the criticisms Ziegler made about the way the John and Ken Show operates? It is a cheap shot, pure and simple.
Mark1971 (c92bfa) — 1/11/2008 @ 1:33 pmActually Mark, if you actually read it, you would realize that John’s wife’s weight had to do with a cheap shot at John himself.
SPQR (26be8b) — 1/11/2008 @ 1:43 pmThat doesn’t mean it wasn’t a cheap shot at John’s wife as well.
Mark1971 (c92bfa) — 1/11/2008 @ 1:49 pmOddly enough I didn’t say that it wasn’t. You asked what did John’s wife’s weight have to do with the issues between Ziegler and Kobylt. There is an answer to your question if you read Ziegler’s rant. It had to do with a shot Ziegler was taking about John Kobylt.
SPQR (26be8b) — 1/11/2008 @ 1:58 pmMaybe, he got tired, like I have, of all the cheap shots Kobylt makes, i.e., calling everyone else fat? The over all theme of Ziegler’s article is that Kobylt is a nasty, two-faced, hypocrite. The comments about his wife support his argument that Kobylt is a hypocrite.
tired (561cf1) — 1/11/2008 @ 2:00 pmApparently you’re speaking from personal experience, gabriel.
A number of years back I listened to John & Ken occasionally. It seemed to be an off-the-cuff comedy show about topical issues. No notion of any sexual dynamic. But maybe that emerged later. Like the baroque bitterness of this Ziegler link.
Interesting that the article notes David Dreier as one of their targets — what with Ken’s sexuality and all.
David Ehrenstein (da3648) — 1/11/2008 @ 2:07 pmHey if you 145k a year job got pulled out from underneath you by a smug, self righteous, judgmental asshole like John I think you’d lash out at any possible angle too. The part that most rings true about Zeigler’s screed, is his characterization of Kobylt as a insecure schmuck.
gabriel (6d7447) — 1/11/2008 @ 2:09 pmTalk radio overflows with insecure schmucks.
David Ehrenstein (da3648) — 1/11/2008 @ 2:26 pmAs does opinion journalism.
JVW (13af87) — 1/11/2008 @ 2:38 pmAnd blogging.
Pablo (99243e) — 1/11/2008 @ 2:49 pmIn your dreams, Pablo.
David Ehrenstein (da3648) — 1/11/2008 @ 2:54 pmCan’t say I am David, as much as my lithe body may intrigue you, I don’t swing that way.
More on the topic, from years of listening to the show, one has a far more useful insight than say a casual listener may enjoy. And, I would be willing to wager a small sum of money, if Ken was a rabid right winger like Rush, and was a closeted homosexual, the lefty blogosphere and its agents would be doing everything possible to expose him.
gabriel (6d7447) — 1/11/2008 @ 2:56 pmReally? Then why hasn’t Rush been exposed?
David Ehrenstein (da3648) — 1/11/2008 @ 3:06 pmRegarding Post #39: ditto posters who seem overly concerned with their genitals or the genitals of others.
Lurker (2708f4) — 1/11/2008 @ 4:40 pmDavid(44), time for you to calm down or the nurse will be in with your meds again. You were doing so well, too.
Mike K (86bddb) — 1/11/2008 @ 5:44 pmFrankly, the only schtick of J&K’s that I have enjoyed was when the put the fear into David Drier. He should have lost that primary.
Another Drew (8018ee) — 1/11/2008 @ 6:30 pmI’m a regular KFI listener (since MSM here in China is all state-run) and tend to like John and Ken and Handel (I found KFI while actually looking for Handel on the Law).
I personally didn’t listen to Ziegler much – too high pitched a voice, a bit verbose for my tastes.
That said, Ziegler did make some good points like when he eviscerated J & K on their sanitized account of Ramos and Compean.
Socrates Abroad (5af450) — 1/11/2008 @ 9:49 pmI also found most of Ziegler’s current rant really interesting. Sure, a couple of digs are pretty harsh (Kobylt’s wife), but I’ll probably listen more critically to Kobylt’s bombast to figure out what’s an act and what’s heartfelt.
What fun! I liked reading that John Kobylt’s wife is pudgy!
Radio is more interesting with these visuals!! 🙂
John Ziegler is the BEST! His truthful take on news events, both local and national is real. Not canned, not for ratings. He is Everyman, but with intelligence and also humor.
His “Here’s what happened” site is great. I appreciate knowing all the dirt that KFI did to him.
View the movie The Foundationhead, and John Ziegler is Cary Cooper, for sure!!!
The world celebrates the mediocre, but it’s the true talent that gets the shaff.
Ziegler is TRUE Talent… on Loan from God!
reformjoy (846c2d) — 1/11/2008 @ 11:55 pmSee movie: * “The Fountainhead” staring Cary Cooper, available at Amazon.com.
Theme: The Mediocre trying to squash talent.
When the Great are mistreated, it’s so wonderful to see someone like John Ziegler take a giant Swing and swat ’em down!
Hey, why not? Never walk away in weakness.
reformjoy (846c2d) — 1/12/2008 @ 12:23 amdang it, the site is down! I came to this thread late & missed everything.
Susan (0bf1df) — 1/12/2008 @ 7:38 pmNo comment.
Though I do have some advice for those in the working world who have to deal with an atmosphere of office politics (which pretty much applies to most everyone in the working world): Just do your job, keep your head down, and try to remain cordial with all sides as best you can. 😉
Justin Levine (9896d5) — 1/13/2008 @ 4:16 pmWow – that pompous gasbag Ziegler even manages to belittle Leah Brandon in his cuckoo-clock crazy diatribe by noting “…Leah Brandon begged me not to get myself fired, partially because she felt that she might also get fired and she badly needed the paycheck. In the end, I decided that out of loyalty to her…” More than anything else, the thing I hated most about his show was the cringe-inducing banter between Leah “Obviously In Love” Brandon with her host. Her lapdog behavior was bad enough, but Ziegler’s delight in exploiting it was unforgivable. He had his ego constantly stroked by her falling all over herself to anticipate his reaction to whatever news story of the day he’d be covering and agree with him in advance only to quickly change her position if he surprised her with a different take. That he could do this to someone who was obviously very enamored with him – night after night – really shows his lack of compassion and definitely his lack of character.
Ted (b7742d) — 1/14/2008 @ 5:11 pmI never really like Ziegler’s show, but something’s telling me his tirade is not that far off the mark…
Greg Stanton (e8d6bb) — 1/14/2008 @ 9:21 pmI never really liked Ziegler’s show, but something’s telling me his tirade is not that far off the mark…
Greg Stanton (e8d6bb) — 1/14/2008 @ 9:22 pmYou can say *that* again!
Patterico (4bda0b) — 1/14/2008 @ 9:26 pmTed is exactly right about the way Ziegler allowed Brandon to stroke his ego and then didn’t hesitate to pull her name into his cry baby postscript KFI tell all. I was listening the night Ziegler came on the air near the end of John and Ken to promote his show. He took the opportunity to call Kobalt out on his Iraq war views. I don’t remember his exact words, but is wasn’t pretty. So here’s Kobalt, with this Zeigler guy, who’s supposed to just come on for a minute to throw a few teasers out to the audience before the news, and instead he takes a shot at Kobalt on his own show, basically calling him an idiot for his switch on the war, and wanting an explanation. I gotta tell ya, I’d be damn pissed too. Ziegler had to know that Kobalt, not known for his patient tolerance, would not like it. But Ziegler didn’t care. And that is Ziegler’s fatal flaw. He is self righteous and arrogant, to the point of self destruction. It’s like he can’t help himself. Reminds me of the scene in Annie Hall when Woody Allen’s character gets stopped by a cop in L.A. and tears up his license to show his contempt for police. As he does it he says, “I’m sorry, I can’t help it, I have this thing about authority”
Dave (76c3e3) — 5/23/2008 @ 11:41 amIt’s too bad Ziegler couldn’t help himself because I kinda liked his show. And as for his parting rant, I say, grow up Ziegler and learn how to play well with others. Sure, I’ll bet the other hosts had a role in getting him fired, but for Ziegler to put it all on them is laughable and pathetic. If you go out of your way to make enemies, don’t be surprised if you get attacked.