Given the News About Schumer and Feinstein, My Idea Probably Isn’t Necessary Any Longer
I was thinking this morning about the predicament the AG nominee finds himself in with respect to “defining” waterboarding as “torture”.
Then, I had an epiphany while listening to the Dennis Miller show while driving to work — well, maybe not an epiphany, it was really just a Miller caller who had an idea that I liked.
A spa should be built at Gitmo to go along with the various other lifestyle accoutrements afforded to the guests.
A CIA directive could require that any waterboarding be done only using Gatorade.
Then, by Executive Order, “waterboarding” could be defined as “Fluid Replacement Therapy” or “Electorlyte Balancing Therapy” since its very humid in Cuba throughout most of the year.
As Miller noted after the caller hung up, maybe the CIA could get Keith Jackson to narrate the demostration video.
That would work, except for the jihadis that are trying to starve themselves to death. Remember, the Left informed us that feeding someone against their will was torture too.
JD (49efd3) — 11/2/2007 @ 3:31 pmSo refreshing that you can find water-boarding so funny. And if we’re going to torture, what moral superiority, moral authority, or moral compass do we have left?
Any comment about the Daniel Levin story?
nosh (53dd5b) — 11/2/2007 @ 4:12 pmI’ll consult Cindy Sheehan on that moral compass direction thing.
SteveG (4e16fc) — 11/2/2007 @ 5:11 pmNavy SEAL’s sit in the shorebreak of a 58 degree ocean for 20 minutes at a time. They are forced to run which sand chafing them raw and to huddle together in a pile to stay warm.
They are waterboarded. They are deprived of sleep and food.
Is that illegal?
Because it sounds like it should be from the lefts point of view. Our government can legally waterboard a class of its own employees, it seems like it should be able to do this to a class of non uniformed combatants.
General Hayden said that “enhanced interrogation methods” have been used on mid double figures of terrorists since 9-11.
Take a cordless drill to your knee or blow metal filings into your own eyes. Use a blowtorch on your nuts Tie yourself toy the bumper of your car and have your teenagers drive you around the neighborhood,
Nosh, how about the moral superiority that we don’t behead our Al Queda prisoners and put the video on the Internet?
Or do you not find our failure to do so “morally superior”?
SPQR (6c18fd) — 11/2/2007 @ 5:16 pmHit the button too fast… anyway.
Those last things are real torture…
Big wave (and even average size) surf can bring a person much closer to actual death and do more real harm than waterboarding done by a professional will. But the surfers still paddle out or get towed in.
SteveG (4e16fc) — 11/2/2007 @ 5:25 pmNot saying Navy SEALs, surfers, or river kayakers wouldn’t be terrified by waterboarding, but they would surely recognize the sensation as one they’ve dealt with before.
nosh – We only torture according to your perverted definition of the word.
JD (49efd3) — 11/2/2007 @ 6:28 pmso when other countries start doing this to american soldiers, it’ll be no worse than a fraternity initiation in your view, right?
assistant devil's advocate (3d4752) — 11/2/2007 @ 7:44 pmada – That is patently ridiculous. I do not dare speak for them, but I suspect that the Americans that have been beheaded and had the videos splashed all over the internet would have prefered to have been waterboarded. Just guessing.
JD (49efd3) — 11/2/2007 @ 7:51 pmAccording to ABC only three people have ever been waterboarded by the CIA and none under Hayden
SteveG (4e16fc) — 11/2/2007 @ 8:28 pmada #7…
This is a specious, and intellectually dishonest arguement. It doesn’t matter how pious we are, the thugs who oppose us will do what they wish.
In VietNam, we did not have a policy of torture; and, in fact, treated prisoners as we have always done under the Geneva Conventions. That did not stop the North VietNamese from killing and torturing Americans incarcerated in the Hanoi Hilton, and other prisons.
John McCain’s position on the anti-torture legislation is morally indefensible for this reason. When we (the West in general, and the U.S. in particular) conduct ourselves to the letter-of-the-law, our opponents torture, starve, kill and otherwise violate those standards of civilized behavior. If we allow ourselves to operate at their level, what would change re their behavior? Are they going to do even worse to our people? How would we notice the difference?
Now, the above has been a defense of what the published position of how U.S. should conduct itself on the field of battle. I do not intend to engage in any argument re the acts of individual soldiers/etc. Individual acts contrary to the GC, have and are prosecuted by the military. I am waiting to hear about a reciprocal act by our opponents.
Of course, every now and then, a little good old-fashioned Roman Justice does wonders as an attitude adjustment.
Another Drew (8018ee) — 11/2/2007 @ 9:02 pmSo much courage shown by the fans of waterboarding and of waterboarding comedy. I suppose these 2 men are similarly devoid of moral fiber and senses of humor:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/WN/DOJ/story?id=3814076&page=1
http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2007/10/waterboarding-is-torture-perio/
eyeball (bc3377) — 11/2/2007 @ 10:28 pmThis is just sick. If you think this isn’t torture, then support it for criminal investigations, too. Afterall, a legitimate interrogation technique shouldn’t stop finding out who was selling dope to the local car club, right?
If not, please explain why domestic crime laws that frequently draw longer sentences than terror related laws should be more protected than the big scary evil? I’m sure waterboarding a few low-level drug dealers will produce a bunch of people to investigate. Let’s get on it.
fishbane (1f2790) — 11/3/2007 @ 1:57 amfishbane, I don’t support forcing criminal defendants to do push-ups and chin-ups — or getting hosed down with cold water as do recruits — or being forced to stay awake in the middle of the night in an ice trench at risk of and often reality of frostbite — but none of these things are torture.
Christoph (92b8f7) — 11/3/2007 @ 2:00 amI think your suggestion is a constructive one, but I would replace Gatorade with the awesome new sports drink Brawndo.
Brawndo’s got electrolytes, which is what plants (and Gitmo detainees) crave:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbxq0IDqD04
Brian (2b3c00) — 11/3/2007 @ 4:15 amWater boarding is torture. So we are torturing terrorist members, so what. We’re not chopping of their heads, castrating them or torturing their families in front of them. How are the americans being treated in the terrorist POW camps, oh right, there isn’t any.
This is a culture war, against an enemy who’s purpose is to destroy our way of life. They know they can’t beat the US on the battlefield and only hope of victory is for the cry babies in the US to force a surrender.
When you’re fighting for your life, there is but one rule, WIN.
Gerald A (1761a5) — 11/3/2007 @ 5:28 amYou’re a real piece of work pat. A real scumbag. I’m sure you’re one of those prosecutors who argues against the use of new DNA testing for old cases, since the defendant was convicted after “due process” and innocence is less important than bureaucracy.
blah (fb88b3) — 11/3/2007 @ 6:32 amOh sorry , it’s WLS. my apologies.
Love your friends pat
blah (fb88b3) — 11/3/2007 @ 6:33 amThose Balko, Greenwald and even Instapundit links which brought new commenters to this site have their downside.
nk (7aed24) — 11/3/2007 @ 6:47 amGreat idea! Then we can stick bamboo under the fingernails and call it “advanced manicure”. And we can bury someone up to their necks in sand and call it “facial tanning”. Hardee har har. You guys are so funny. Torture is just a riot.
Ken Hirsch (92c4bc) — 11/3/2007 @ 9:42 amblah and Ken:
Get a life, and a sense of humor.
This subject wouldn’t be ripe for mocking if the libruls and nutroots weren’t so unserious about they way they treat the intersection of national security and the Constitution.
If Congress wanted to include waterboarding in the statutory definition of torture, they had 3 chances to do so.
They didn’t.
Why should I?
wls (fb8809) — 11/3/2007 @ 4:02 pmNK #17 – Amen.
DRJ (5c60fb) — 11/3/2007 @ 4:09 pmWe get the silly comment above:
“This is just sick. If you think this isn’t torture, then support it for criminal investigations, too. Afterall, a legitimate interrogation technique shouldn’t stop finding out who was selling dope to the local car club, right?
If not, please explain why domestic crime laws that frequently draw longer sentences than terror related laws should be more protected than the big scary evil? I’m sure waterboarding a few low-level drug dealers will produce a bunch of people to investigate. Let’s get on it.”
This person obviously does not understand the discussion at all. No one is recommending that these techniques be used for any criminal prosecutions, for terrorism or anything else. The question is whether or not these techniques should be available for use in intelligence gathering for the purpose of finding, and stopping terrorism and for opposing insurgent operations.
I’ve never seen so many strawmen in any discussions before.
SPQR (6c18fd) — 11/3/2007 @ 4:57 pmChucky Schumer this wacko has a few screws loose
krazy kagu (4ca035) — 11/3/2007 @ 9:20 pm