Friday Open Thread
My main post today is about the Sopranos. In case you’re not interested in that, discuss other things here. Some ideas:
Have fun and be polite.
My main post today is about the Sopranos. In case you’re not interested in that, discuss other things here. Some ideas:
Have fun and be polite.
Pronounced "Patter-EE-koh"
E-mail: Just use my moniker Patterico, followed by the @ symbol, followed by gmail.com
Disclaimer: Simpsons avatar may resemble a younger Patterico...
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Reid commenting on anyone competences, approval rating, or pretty much anything about anyone is like the pot calling the kettle black…
Scott Jacobs (90eabe) — 6/15/2007 @ 6:40 amThe Libby case is one more step toward mutally assured destruction by both parties toward their ability to govern. The impeachment of Clinton was a response to the Bork hearings and the attacks on Reagan appointees. Pretty soon, the only people willing to accept appointments will be political hacks with no career choices outside of government. Since Republicans have more options for private careers than Democrats, it may actually be an effective tactic for the latter. Few Republicans would be willing to risk what Libby is going through. Raines and Gorelick have made a good thing of Fannie Mae but the Democrats thrive in government and have few options in the private world. The reverse is true of Republicans.
Mike K (86bddb) — 6/15/2007 @ 6:53 am“since republicans have more options for private careers than democrats…”
wtf? citation, please!
assistant devil's advocate (8499da) — 6/15/2007 @ 7:08 amBrit Tzedek v’Shalom talks with Amjad Atallah
On Libby you should read the Judge’s words. He’s not a democrat.
AF (4a3fa6) — 6/15/2007 @ 8:14 amI believe Mike K is referring to high paying careers. But he is probably overlooking the numerous well paid law related careers deeply intertwined with corporate entities. Not to mention all those private equity deals, compliance work, lobbying, you know the drill. And before you say yes but that’s just one industry, the law, just do a little straw poll of any room with politicians inside and see how many have law degrees. Any lawyers do know where the bigger money is. Blue, red, the dominant color is always green, and not the ecology one. Although the money is headed that way lately. One example…corn futures, anyone?
Marshal Dillon (2ceb4b) — 6/15/2007 @ 8:18 amAF has the top portion of the Hamas takeover. Here’s the bottom portion from this morning’s news:
“…A resident of a Hamas-dominated neighborhood, identifying himself only as Yousef for fear of reprisal by his neighbors, said Gazans would always back the winner, regardless of ideology.
“Today everybody is with Hamas because Hamas won the battle. If Fatah had won the battle they’d be with Fatah. We are a hungry people, we are with whoever gives us a bag of flour and a food coupon,” said Yousef, 30. “Me, I’m with God and a bag of flour…
Marshal Dillon's deputy (2ceb4b) — 6/15/2007 @ 8:29 am#4 Ah, I see. The Hamas-Fatah Civil War is the Bush’s the US’s fault. Hamas really wants to live in peace with Israel if only Israel and the U.S. would let them.
I have read Judge Walton’s words and understand he is not a Democrat. Read the Amicus brief. The signers are not all Republicans. The issue before Judge Walton was whether or not Libby should go to jail while his appeal is pending. I think he made the wrong decision. We will see what the Court of Appeals has to say on Libby’s request for bail.
Stu707 (5b299c) — 6/15/2007 @ 8:56 amCould our society’s problems be traced to some people’s testosterone allergy?
Alan Kellogg (09ea03) — 6/15/2007 @ 9:06 amin re: testosterone allergy
AF (4a3fa6) — 6/15/2007 @ 9:50 amJesus fuck AF… 2003… We’ve admitted that Abu Ghraib happened. We’ve convicted the people who did that crap…
Jesus christ man, you must have a pathological need to beat a dead horse, don’t you?
And ffs… STOP THE CUT AND PAST YOU MORON!
I not you left out the DATE those things happened.
Scott Jacobs (90eabe) — 6/15/2007 @ 10:22 amClick the link Scott.
AF (4a3fa6) — 6/15/2007 @ 11:02 amYou’ll learn something.
How about you fucking learn to post original fucking content, you empty shell of a poster?
I see you and yours getting all pissed off every time someone brings up how horribly abused those folks were at Abu Ghraib, but exactly where was the fury and rage when they released video tape of american captives being BEHEADED??
Scott Jacobs (90eabe) — 6/15/2007 @ 11:10 amI would think there’d be comments on Nifong’s trial in NC. The guy ought to get every punishment they are able to hand out to him. And yes, I am judging him to be guilty of ethics violations and misconduct.
I also am dismayed that NO ONE is taking the 88 professors of the Duke Faculty that persecuted the Lacrosse players without cause. Those 88 should be facing a trial and loss of their tenure.
PCD (b50035) — 6/15/2007 @ 11:13 amScott,
you are wasting time with “people” like AF. They are only about taking down the guardrails of life and avoiding the responsibility for the human wreckage they leave in their wake.
PCD (b50035) — 6/15/2007 @ 11:15 am““since republicans have more options for private careers than democrats…”
wtf? citation, please!
Comment by assistant devil’s advocate ”
I have neither the time nor the interest to do a search of the pre and post government careers of political appointees in Democrat and Republican administrations. If you had the slightest familiarity with the subject, you would note where they come from and where they go. The campaign against Republican appointees goes back at least to Reagan. Remember Ray Donovan (Where do I got to get my reputation back ?) and Cap Weinberger? Take the top 50 political appointees of each of the last four administrations and look where they come from. I will grant that there are a lot of lawyers and they can be called private sector in cases like Warren Christopher. The majority, however, show the trend. Democrats consider a career in government a successful career. With the exception of hacks like Trent Lott, Republicans tend not to.
Mike K (6d4fc3) — 6/15/2007 @ 11:52 amDont feed the trolls.
Gabriel (6d7447) — 6/15/2007 @ 1:09 pmHamas really wants to live in peace with Israel if only Israel and the U.S. would let them.
Stu, what planet do you live on? Hamas says it doesn’t want to live in peace with Israel, and no one forced them to say that. If you seriously believe that, go over to Alternet and such places, where you can share your illusions with the rest of the jihadis fellow travellers.
Mike K–I don’t have any data at hand, but I think your proposition is true only if you define such things and lobbying and the World Bank as private sector.
If you paraphrase the matter as “going into jobs where government connections matter” and “going into jobs where government connections do not matter” you would, however, probably be correct.
kishnevi (8b6e4e) — 6/15/2007 @ 1:37 pmMy comment about Hamas wanting to live peacefully with Israel was facetious. I have no illusions about Hamas. Hamas would murder every single Jew it could get its bloody hands on. Including me.
Stu707 (5b299c) — 6/15/2007 @ 1:53 pmsince republicans have more options for private careers than democrats
Not true, I suspect, in either direction. The problem at its roots is narcissism, and both parties certainly have their share of narcissists. True, I think the Dems have more – a consequence and catalyst, both, of their nanny-state mentality of rule by the elite – but neither party has much reason to boast about their level of infestation. Hello Howard Dean. Hello Ted Stevens.
Moreover, narcissists, being essentially amoral, “hunt” for status and power wherever they see it. If either party were to jettison a significant portion of their bad apples, and thereby reform and start to be seen as good, the narcissists would return tout de suite just to jump in front of the parade and claim leadership.
Or to put in another way, does George Soros have no options for a private career?
ras (adf382) — 6/15/2007 @ 2:16 pmIs it normal for defendants to be sent to jail while awaiting appeal?
Eric (09e4ab) — 6/15/2007 @ 3:03 pmIf I recall correctly, there was a post on here a while back by WLS, a Federal prosecutor that discussed the criteria for granting bail pending appeal in Federal criminal cases. I think they are: the appellant is not a flight risk or danger to the community, the appeal raises important legal questions, there is a likelihood that the defendant will prevail on appeal, and the appeal is not intended as a device to keep the defendant out of jail.
The legal scholars who wrote the Amicus brief are politically diverse. They contend that the appeal does raise “close [legal] questions.”
Stu707 (5b299c) — 6/15/2007 @ 4:11 pm”
Mike K–I don’t have any data at hand, but I think your proposition is true only if you define such things and lobbying and the World Bank as private sector.
If you paraphrase the matter as “going into jobs where government connections matter” and “going into jobs where government connections do not matter” you would, however, probably be correct.
Comment by kishnevi ”
Fair enough. The post government examples are weaker but Weinberger and Cheney both came from heavy industry. Paul O’Neill came from Alcoa although he had been a career bureaucrat before his private sector experience. I don’t think you will find many Democrats coming from anything but law and government and academia. All three of my examples had previous backgrounds in government but they were serious executives, unlike Raines and Gorelick who traded influence for millions and may yet get tripped up.
Mike K (86bddb) — 6/15/2007 @ 4:29 pmFeed the trolls, and maybe they’ll suffocate under their own weight. 🙂
Alan Kellogg (90cdd2) — 6/15/2007 @ 6:23 pmPCD you are so very right!
Nifong is the biggest national news story of the week, and it seems to be getting ignored. Very Sad IMHO.
Nifong all but screamed “I am a fucking liar every time my lips move”!
The really sad thing is that He is not the only Nifong in this nation! The same shit happens almost every day somewhere across the nation. I hope they hang him in a public square and televise it. Along with a warning to others that may choose such a path that their trial was also this week.
Scum like Nifong need to be drug in the streets, he needs to be fired, lose any monies he may have had coming to him, pension? Demonstrate that the public will not tolerate such behavior from those WE pay! EVER!!!!
TC (b48fdd) — 6/15/2007 @ 8:22 pm“Raines and Gorelick have made a good thing of Fannie Mae” By good thing I can only think you mean made a killing. They got paid a fortune in salaries and bonuses (millions). Sallie Mae is under Federal Investigation for the changes made during their tenure.
davod (3392f5) — 6/16/2007 @ 5:08 am“How about you fucking learn to post original fucking content, you empty shell of a poster?”
-Scott Jacobs
You are such a moron.
When AF posts an article, he is endorsing its content. If you can’t figure out his feelings from the articles he posts, you’re even stupider than I think you are.
If you can figure out his feelings from the articles he posts, than your grievance is little more than the petulant flailing of a mentally frustrated man-child who gets his ass kicked in open debate, and must resort to the same tired remarks for the sole sake of having something to say.
Leviticus (0d4c35) — 6/16/2007 @ 9:06 amAm I going to have to do away with open threads?
Examples of things I don’t like seeing in comments:
“How about you fucking learn to post original fucking content, you empty shell of a poster?”
“You are such a moron.”
This sort of thing drags down the comment section, which I think is one of the better comment sections out there in terms of intelligence and a high level of discussion. Please avoid it.
Also, at least AF appears to be excerpting, which I appreciate.
Patterico (2a65a5) — 6/16/2007 @ 9:34 amC’mon, Patterico. “One of the better comment sections out there”? Here are some examples of the high level of intelligence and discussion in this thread:
“Reid commenting on anyone competences [sic], approval rating, or pretty much anything about anyone is like the pot calling the kettle black…”
-Scott Jacobs
“you are wasting time with “people” like AF. They are only about taking down the guardrails of life and avoiding the responsibility for the human wreckage they leave in their wake.”
-PCD
“Scum like Nifong need to be drug in the streets, he needs to be fired, lose any monies he may have had coming to him, pension? Demonstrate that the public will not tolerate such behavior from those WE pay! EVER!!!!”
-TC
…And, of course, my little exchange with Scott Jacobs (which I feel free to say I won hands down).
This thread hasn’t exactly been the epitome of informed, adult conversation.
Give your other comment sections some credit.
Leviticus (6b378d) — 6/16/2007 @ 5:49 pmYes… How dare three people state opinion built upon fact…
Ried’s a hack who’s Senate has done jack and shit and is possessed of about a 19% favorable rating, Nifong is a legal hack who railroaded three young men and tried to ruin their lives, and AF’s a dolt who’s C/P-to-original words ratio is WAY tilted to sut and paste…
Yeah, we’re real jerks…
Scott Jacobs (a1de9d) — 6/16/2007 @ 6:32 pm“AF’s a dolt who’s C/P-to-original words ratio is WAY tilted to cut and paste”
It’s not about you and me dear, it’s about knowledgeable opinions concerning FACTS AND EVENTS.
AF (4a3fa6) — 6/17/2007 @ 8:29 amIf I wasn’t there then I’ll link to someone who was. If I don’t read Arabic, then I’ll link to someone who does. If I’m not a lawyer but I follow legal argument I’ll defer to those I respect.
You think of all conversation is chitchat at the bar. You defend “talking out your ass” and are offended if anyone refers to actual knowledge rather than simple opinion.