Convicted Border Patrol Agent Beaten in Prison by Illegals?
Via Allah comes a link to a story that one of those Border Patrol agents convicted for shooting an illegal immigrant has been beaten in prison — by illegal immigrants.
At this point, I’m agnostic on what actually happened. Allah sets forth some reasons to be skeptical, but it seems hard to believe it’s entirely made up. Based on what I know, I lean towards the position that these guys were properly convicted. But that doesn’t mean that they should be beaten up — and if they weren’t properly segregated, there’s some gross negligence going on at a minimum.
Unlike Bill Lockyer, I’m not a fan of prisoners getting raped, either. You do the time that you were legally sentenced to, and that’s all the punishment you should get.
If this really happened as reported, heads should roll.
These agents have big targets painted on them. If this report is true, I can’t understand why Ramos was anywhere near illegal immigrant prisoners.
DRJ (605076) — 2/6/2007 @ 12:30 amLike many or most others with this case, I can’t find a single valid side of the fence to stand firmly upon.
There are things that say these agents were doing what the citizens of this country desire BP agents to do. But it also seems that they may have performed beyond said specific transcripts or what they should have done.
This fellow that caught the lead in his ass seems to be responsible for 700 lbs of weed being brought into the country. WHICH is AGAINST the law! ( and this is secret, he also seems to have brught close to 1k lbs over since he got shot in the A$$). Shhhhhhhsh nobody knows about that as it’s an ongoing investigation).
Is the BP supposed to be doing what? EXACTLY?
If their purpose is to NOT prevent illegals from entering this country and to NOT interject illegal drugs from entering this country. Then one must ask why they are even employed? Why does such an organization called Border Patrol exist? To assist drug smugglers and others infiltration routes?
Hand out water bottles for those in need, direct the PG’s to a hospital so that they too can have a hook into the public coffers of their non native nation?
These guys may have actually been some part of allowing the drugs into this country, then decided they could make more by interjecting themselves into the process. It’s possible.
I do not know.
Oh and for a laugh a minute? Some bill has been introduced to exclude payment for the support of these two being held within the confines of a federal prison! Now that has got to be legal eagles at their best eh? Posturing for something, but for what seems out of my range. (no real surprise there).
There was one hella big time hoopla recently about having the national guard troops man the same border. Why? Well to stop illegals from entering the country.
Last I heard the ARMY/NG removed themselves from an area that could have become hot, as the illegals had guns, and our troops were not allowed to have them/loaded them or for a fact shoot the intruders!
Day by day by day I continue to watch this nation self destruct. From within. From intrusion. From Political correctness.
In the words of Andy Rooney, I suppose it will be a much nicer world when we are all brown!
TC (b48fdd) — 2/6/2007 @ 1:36 amI remember making some comment to ADA that something like this would happen (which means I’m smarter than your average potato, but nothing more).
Leviticus (43095b) — 2/6/2007 @ 8:16 amWe make jokes — “Don’t bend over to pick up the soap in the shower.” — about prison rape. Why do you think a typical citizen fears jail so? The loss of freedom is a hindrance. The fear of being assaulted and victimized is the terror.
But now that the inmates are Border Patrol agents that the rightwing have adopted, we are horrified that, allegedly, one was assaulted in prison.
I am a liberal who is absolutely frustrated with illegal immigration. I think the solution is in jailtime employer sanctions. But I also support the border fence, denial of benefits, and the repeal of the stupid protective order in Los Angeles.
Conviction of Campion/Ramos — Absolutely. Their destruction of evidence by picking up the shells and obstructing justice by not reporting points conclusively to their guilt. Should they be in prison? Possibly — it was assault under cover of authority. But for over ten years? Ridiculous, but these are the mandatory sentences enacted by conservative Law and Order types who want to be ever-tougher on crime and enact mandatory minimums to curtail those “activist” judges.
nosh (ee9fe2) — 2/6/2007 @ 12:44 pmAndy McCarthy has a post about this case on NRO. He says in part;
“The rogue duo had two easy opportunities to arrest Aldrete-Davila: First, when he attempted to surrender and Compean decided it would be better to smash him with the butt of a shotgun than to put cuffs on him, as it was his duty to do; and then, when the “heroes,” having felled the unarmed, fleeing suspect with a bullet fired into his buttocks, decided to leave him there so they could tend to the more important business of covering up the shooting.”
I gather these fact are disputed but if they are true I have little sympathy for the agents.
Of course the government is still obligated to take reasonable measures to keep them (like any other prisoner) safe in prison.
James B. Shearer (fc887e) — 2/6/2007 @ 12:51 pmNearly two years after the trial, they still have not released a transcript of the trial. What valid reason could there possibly be for that?
Bush is playing politics with these lives – he hopes these decade long prison sentences will send a message of goodwill to his buddies, the illegal aliens. What a pathetic president Bush has turned out to be on the issues of preventing the smuggle-train of stuff entering from Mexico, and controlling spending.
Wesson (c20d28) — 2/6/2007 @ 1:55 pmThe BP agents union has released two statements that suggest to me that there was some monkey business between the drug smuggler and the agent who actually brought the complaint. That person was NOT present and seven other agents were, including a supervisor. The beating, if true, stinks to high heaven.
There was recently a deputy sheriff in Texas convicted of shooting an illegal on the testimony of the illegals only. She was being smuggled and he says he fired at a tire when threatened. Something is going on that may bring collapse of border security just like there was a collapse of law enforcement in New York City in the 70s. I have a home and family in Tucson. That state is becoming over run with illegals who are increasingly lawless.
These are all federal prosecutions. Patrick tends to give prosecutors the benefit of the doubt but I was not far from Ruby Ridge when that went down and I don’t trust federal prosecutors in these politically charged cases. The Idaho jury acquitted Randy Weaver and indicted the FBI agent.
Mike K (6d4fc3) — 2/6/2007 @ 3:17 pmWe have problems in Texas, especially in areas where the immigrant population is so large that an average jury identifies more with the illegals than with law enforcement.
DRJ (8b9d41) — 2/6/2007 @ 4:55 pmWhat’s going to happen here is that eventually all the facts are going to come out, and those who support the Bush administration’s side of things are going to look even worse than they do now.
For instance, a government document shows that BP supervisors were either present at the incident or knew about it after it occured.
And, BP rules say that agents can only file verbal reports (as appears to have happened) and that they can’t file written reports. That seems to contradict statements from the Bush-linked prosecutor.
More on the case (cc42f6) — 2/6/2007 @ 5:08 pmDHS official now admits he lied to members of Congress concerning this case.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54132
[If anyone can get me a link from a *reputable* outlet reporting the same thing, I’ll link it later. Headed to a concert now . . . — P]
Mark (2dedd8) — 2/6/2007 @ 6:19 pmYeah, not good. Thanks for the link, Mark.
DRJ (605076) — 2/6/2007 @ 6:57 pmDaily Bulletin
Darleen (543cb7) — 2/6/2007 @ 7:36 pmIs the Border Patrol morphing into all of the other regulatory agencies that government creates: they end up representing the interests of those they are to regulate, and not the taxpayer?
Another Drew (8018ee) — 2/6/2007 @ 7:49 pmI will tell you one thing, with this case and the Duke “rape” case I have lost a ton of respect for prosecutors. Hell, at least when a defense attorney acts like a scumbag he is doing his job.
[Let me give you a tutorial on how to make distinctions. I might lose respect for *you* because you generalize a couple of prosecutors’ conduct to * all* prosecutors. But that wouldn’t mean that I have lost respect for *all* of my commenters, because they haven’t all made comments like that. See how that works? — P]
Mark (2dedd8) — 2/6/2007 @ 7:54 pmOn the FoxNews Cavuto show, Bush said that he would not pardon now because there is a process that goes through Justice, after appeals are done, and all that. The clever Bush/Gonzales/Snow tactic here is that the feds continue to refuse to allow the transcript of the trial to be released, delaying appeals, and preventing the pardon proposal from being reviewed. Everything about this smacks of appeasing the illegal alien/smuggling community, at all costs. Nothing is more important to these Bush clowns.
… or at least that’s what I learned from today’s John&Ken KFI-640 show.
Wesson (c20d28) — 2/6/2007 @ 8:31 pmPatterico,
Dallas Morning News
Darleen (543cb7) — 2/7/2007 @ 6:42 amPatterico is agnostic on this. I thought after they were convicted and Johnny Sutton issued his little diatribe, you were all for these guys being locked up vigilantes. Why don’t you read this article from World Net Daily http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=54132 ?? The insult is that, not only was Ramos beaten up last Saturday, but the government, more specifically the Office of Homeland Security, testified before Congress that they lied about all those specific “FACTS” that Johnny Sutton said were indisputable.
And Patterico is agnostic. You wonder why we lost the Congress? Why Republicans are peeved at Pres. Bush? Do you feel that they’re doing what we ask about immigration? Or is there another agenda at hand!?!
Terri (bca4f8) — 2/7/2007 @ 8:34 amI saw one agent’s father interviewed last night. Admittedly, he is not impartial but they say they were told the agents would be held in a minimum security facility near Phoenix, close enough for family visits. Instead, they were taken to Yazoo, a medium security prison with lots of illegals, and they were not segregated from the general population. The agent who was beaten was using a false name to avoid being recognized but the America’s Most Wanted segment showed his picture and he was recognized. He was beaten by four or five men after he went to bed. I may be paranoid but why did this series of events occur ? I’m starting to wonder if they are being taught a lesson for going to the news media with their case.
Too paranoid ? I wonder.
Mike K (416363) — 2/7/2007 @ 9:17 amFollowing up on the World Net Daily article regarding DHS IG Skinner’s statements to Congressman Culberson yesterday in the Subcommittee hearings:
I called Congressman Culberson’s office today. They confirmed the story is true.
DRJ (605076) — 2/7/2007 @ 10:48 amPatterico,
I think you know by now that I am a strong defender of law enforcement and prosecutors. However, the fact is that officials at the highest levels of the Bush Administration are eager to placate the Mexican government. In addition, I suspect the US Attorney for the Western District of Texas may share their concerns. I think those concerns color how they view the skirmishes that regularly take place on the Texas border, and it probably bothers them more that it’s happening in their home state of Texas as opposed to elsewhere on the border.
I don’t think there’s a conspiracy or that anyone has intentionally tried to harm these BP agents. Far from it, which makes it that much more dangerous. I think the problem is that, rather than letting the process work, they have let their desire for a specific result push them to view complicated, ambiguous facts as clear-cut.
Illegal immigrants are so pervasive in El Paso and the entire border area (extending at least 200 miles in) that most jurors will have friends and extended family members who are illegal. I haven’t had many cases in El Paso but I know enough about it to say that probably any state or federal court jury would be equally or more sympathetic to illegals than to the Border Patrol.
This case is a perfect storm scenario and I, for one, am glad that a few Congressmen are pursuing this matter. I’m also grateful for checks and balances and this is one of those rare moments when I’m even grateful for Congress. I hope they don’t give up on these agents.
DRJ (605076) — 2/7/2007 @ 11:08 amDon’t worry Patterico, the pesos they will pay you will spend just fine in California, Texas, New Mexico and Arizona.
Jorge Bush y sus amigos are pursuing a policy that endangers the Republic but, as long as the lawyers are satisfied, nuestro peons should be nice and quiet. La verdad, no?
MCPO Airdale (1b0347) — 2/7/2007 @ 12:34 pmI just saw a clip from a press conference held today on CNN. Congressman Dana Rohrabacher is threatening impeachment. He didn’t direct the threat at any particular individual.
Mark (2dedd8) — 2/7/2007 @ 3:46 pmOh sure, now that they are under oath the story starts to crack… Really, why on earth would they leave this disgusting story floating out there uncorrected for months? Jackasses.
The Department of Homeland Security on Wednesday apologetically retracted staff members’ comments that two Border Patrol agents convicted of shooting a Mexican drug smuggler had told investigators they intended “to shoot Mexicans.”
Wesson (c20d28) — 2/7/2007 @ 7:37 pm…
Skinner told McCaul that his aides apparently misquoted a statement that the two agents were attempting “to shoot the alien” after they received a telephone briefing on the case from Texas. But he said that exchange had no bearing on the outcome of the criminal case and occurred after the trial in El Paso.
U.S. retracts statements that agents were out `to shoot Mexicans’
Patterico’s insert in comment 10:
How’s this for a reputable source?
DRJ (605076) — 2/7/2007 @ 7:39 pmIf that link doesn’t work, try this one for Congressman Culberson’s website. It’s the top story for 2/7/07. (Is there something going on with WordPress that causes it to block links to government websites?)
DRJ (605076) — 2/7/2007 @ 7:45 pmSorry. I think I botched the first link. Here’s the short version:
I’ve written my Congressman urging him to join Congressman Culberson in trying to sanction the DHS and help Agents Ramos and Compean.
DRJ (605076) — 2/7/2007 @ 7:50 pmHere’s a better link from Contra Costa Times, also part of McClatchy. Sorry, this is frustrating.
Wesson (c20d28) — 2/7/2007 @ 7:51 pmU.S. retracts statements that agents were out `to shoot Mexicans’
Wesson,
Your link is far superior. Thanks.
DRJ (605076) — 2/7/2007 @ 8:10 pmPatterico,
I think the bulk of your commenters are right, this one really stinks. As someone who supported Bush in 2000 and 2004, I *hope* this was the work of some overzealous types in the Dept of Homeland Security and Bush’s defense of it is out of ignorance. It’s sure starting to look like the Administration hung these guys out to dry to send a message to BP agents regarding the perils of performing their jobs too aggressively.
At the news conference today, Rep Rohrbacher stated it may be time to talk impeachment if one of these guys is killed in prison. Rohrbacher is my congressman and a solid Republican who used to work for Ronald Reagan. He would not have said this lightly. I’m conviced there will be more to come out over the coming days.
Jeff C. (428193) — 2/7/2007 @ 9:27 pmI’m working on a new post, hoping to incorporate all available information.
Keep in mind: I SUPPORTED THE PROSECUTION WITHOUT QUALIFICATION AND THEREFORE AM WRONG WRONG WRONG if there are any questions about the case at all.
Patterico (a8fa4a) — 2/7/2007 @ 9:33 pmAs far as “reputable source” goes, and considering that most of the reputedly reputable media will not want to cover this to protect the rat infested DHS and the remainder won’t cover it so as to protect the rat infested White House…you are left with the horse’s mouth.
J Curtis (d21251) — 2/7/2007 @ 9:55 pmThe thugs should all get life in prison and to hell with what mexico says
krazy kagu (557722) — 2/9/2007 @ 6:53 pm