Patterico's Pontifications

5/6/2005

Michael Schiavo: Still a Lowlife

Filed under: Government,Schiavo,Scum — Patterico @ 10:04 pm



Michael Schiavo’s true self is made painfully apparent once again:

MIAMI (AP) — The family of a severely brain-damaged woman who died after her feeding tube was removed in March said Friday they still have not been told where her remains will be laid to rest.

Terri Schiavo’s parents and siblings, who waged a lengthy court battle over her end-of-life wishes, said on Fox’s “Hannity & Colmes” show that her husband is keeping her remains from them.

“They were supposed to tell us, and we still have not heard from … Michael Schiavo where Terri’s been laid,” said Terri Schiavo’s brother, Bobby Schindler. “Our family expected this. Michael has disobeyed court orders throughout the ordeal and continues to do so today.”

Scum.

UPDATE: For those who defend Schiavo: he is violating a court order by this behavior. Details in this earlier post of mine.

17 Responses to “Michael Schiavo: Still a Lowlife”

  1. I think you are far too kind…I was glad to see the Schindler family didn’t hedge too much when discussing their belief Michael was responsible for Terri’s collapse. I am also glad they know there are many of us who are not going to just move on and forget about this murder. Nope…I frankly don’t feel or think it would be morally right to continue on without justice.

    Crystal Clear (70d9f2)

  2. I was earlier convinced that Micheal Schiavo perceived Terri Schiavo as his possession and now I’m even more convinced that he’s perceiving her remains as a token of his “work.”

    Which is a characteristic of those who murder other human beings.

    -S- (0ae3db)

  3. It is impossible for me to wrap my brain around this sort of behavior.

    Buckley F. Williams (82e13a)

  4. Michael Schiavo’s true self is made painfully apparent once again:…Scum.

    Over the ashes issue, I would not take such a black–white picture. If the whereabouts of the ashes are known, it is possible to speculate the place would turn out to be a new Theresa shrine, second to Teresa of Avila, a saint, in a manner of speaking. Many will come to pay homage. The issue will snowball in some way. Personally I would think that her ashes be scattered in the mountain and river and seas and earth, and thus she is everywhere for all to visit easily.

    On the case itself, an issue, I fault Michael for putting some ideas across during the medical malpractice suit that he did not follow through. The money was claimed for her medical care for her natural life then expected actuarially, to be 50 years and estimated at between $ 6-12 million, but awarded $ 750,000. But at most that makes him an un-honorable person, or someone who has changed with circumstances. The suit was for medical malpractice and the issue is “was there medical malpractice?” If yes, then the award.

    When she had an infection, Michael relied on doctor’s advice that he does not have her infection treated. At that point, Michael could have acted honorably by rejecting the doctor’s advice and following his intent as expressed at the medical malpractice suit. That he did not, does not make it criminal, just not so honorable, a virtue that cannot be legislated.

    So if by scum you mean not so honorable, it’s a matter of opinion of what is honorable. On the other hand, Schindlers went bankrupt and the bulk of $ 750,000 was redirected towards legal costs of Schiavo’s attorneys, with presumably the state bearing the bulk of medical costs. High medical costs for 1 patient is okay but for many is drain on state resources, which can be otherwise better applied to critical growth areas that enhance productivity. Just think what is average cost of 1 full time nurse, which is like the wage of a working adult in any family.

    I disagree with your analysis that there was a fatal error in the date than a non fatal error on date of death of Karen, and thus, I find the decision on her wish acceptable that she would not have wished for such life prolonging measures. I am not so sure of the diagnosis of PVS, more because it was a medical diagnosis than a legal definition as defined in Fla. Stat. Had the court specifically addressed the legal definition of PVS, it would be clearer that she is in PVS. Then again the Fla. Stat. does elsewhere rely on medical diagnosis of PVS of 2 doctors.

    Yi-Ling (bd5980)

  5. I agree with Yi-Ling. In Michael Schiavo’s shoes, I would do exactly the same thing. Terri’s parents have given him nothing but grief for several months. Why would anyone expect him to cooperate with them after they slandered him publicly?

    There is no doubt that if the location of her grave were public knowledge, there would be no end of ridiculous posturing on-site by people who don’t personally know anyone involved.

    It’s easy to be judgmental when you have nothing at stake.

    Al Jackson (f97db8)

  6. Yi-Ling and Al Jackson- Michael Schiavo is in violation of a court order. He publicly stated that he would not tell her parents where their daughter was buried, and they asked the court to intervene. For once the court intervened on their behalf. The court ordered Schiavo to release that information to Terri’s parents and siblings. He’s refusing since the press has stopped paying attention to him.

    deputyheadmistress (aa5dbf)

  7. Michael Schiavo is in violation of a court order

    Anyone has a link to this particular court order, before I take it that there is such a court order.

    Yi-Ling (8698b0)

  8. It has been reported that there is a court order, and I have never seen any report that Michael Schiavo denies this.

    I have updated the post with a link.

    Patterico (756436)

  9. It has been reported that there is a court order, and I have never seen any report that Michael Schiavo denies this.

    Patterico, I had checked the Terri’s fight link, which has a huge number of court applications and orders. It does not have this. The home page has an article which deals with this “purported” court order. The link does not work. I also checked another more lean towards Michael’s link by Matt Abstract Appeal. It does not list this court order either.

    Even if such a court order is not linked, the date of application, date of hearing and terms of order are needed.

    To say that, because it has not been denied, it therefore exists, is weak, because it seems Michael has not denied other things too that others would think he should have denied. The best denial would be an offence that is a defamation suit, but that he has not, does not create the existence of a court application, hearing, order in terms.

    Thus I would like those who insist that there is such a court application, hearing and order, to provide good and sufficient details of it, for me to see that, indeed there is such, and also to see if the precise terms of the order is sufficiently clear to say affirmatively that, there is non compliance of the precise court order thus opening the defendant to contempt of court.

    Surely good sense, would ask for a copy of the court order, and close scrutiny of the court order to see if there is compliance or not.

    At this time, one sees many things on the internet that are flawed, and thus the need to ask for verification of what does not seem sensible, where Michael has paid bulk of $ 750,000 for legal fees , from the award for Terri, that, on a simple matter of strict compliance with court order on pain of contempt, he has not been advised to comply with the law. Because it goes against reason, I would therefore again repeat request for proof of court application, hearing date, order on a matter that those who insist the order does exist.

    Yi-Ling (2800fb)

  10. For those who defend Schiavo: he is violating a court order by this behavior.

    I do not defend Schiavo. I defend the law as it is and as I think it should be. In an ideal world, I would like all sentient life [ animals, insects, …] to be treated on par as humans, that animals are not killed for food, insects are not killed by pesticides. That way I can uphold a religious belief /principle of respect for all sentient life. Likewise, I would like all humans with MCS or PCS to have life prolonging measures to the extent that science & technology can permit, with costs $ being a non issue. But that is an ideal world. According to Schiavo’s attorney statements, at opening of medical malpractice suit, $ 500,000 had been spent already, and it is estimated $ 12 million would be spent if she is taken care of in hospital and higher sum of $ 16 million, is she was taken home and cared for at home. In one other hearing it came up in evidence that Schindlers went bankrupt and thus, the lease could not be in Mr. Schindlers name. Whoever is bearing the cost, of her care, it shows it is not without severe financial repercussions to the family and to the state and economy. Because we live in the real world, we need to consider real issues, like $ issues, even when dealing with idealism, couched in any language, whether religion or abstruse constitutional points. Because law is an expression of economy, in new areas, I therefore apply my mind first to economy and then, what the law should be in terms of the real economy for now and for the future. I therefore do not argue from abstract high idealism, while maintaining for myself, private religious principles of non violence, and as far as possible non taking of any sentient life, and separating my belief system on the one hand from the legal system and laws as it is and as it should be, on the other hand.

    While you can easily see that it would take away fun of fishing, if first example is followed through, you do not so easily see, it would also take away fun of ordinary fun time apart from working hours and days, if a family member in PVS is cared for at home, for then funds are diverted to such care.

    Where you easily see an animal is not a person, and thus this primates are allowed to be in captivity, say like orang utans, and chimpanzees, but not humans, except in accordance with law, you do not so easily see that a person even if in MCS or PCS, is not a person in the full sense, that, if family funds do not permit, they should be allowed to get on with their life, and remove the feeding tube, whatever may be the wish of the patient, if the patient did not provide for sufficient funds for his/her medical care for prolonged time, depleting family resources for children’s education and family building for next generation.

    Some defend a point because it has been made, and thus need to be propped up all the time, others defend a point because of deeply rooted spiritual feelings and belief or high idealism expressed in abstruse & abstract constitutional points, and others defend a party without taking note that as in human life, there is no clear cut always one side is 100% right, even when the law courts created by humans, require a verdict.

    So on the point of the “court order” for Michael to tell them where the ashes are kept, they who assert there is such a court order, owe it to us, to tell us the precise terms of the court order, date of the order, and the terms of the application sought for that obtained such alleged court order. Until then, it is possible that, this is a rumor however well intended the feelings and sentiments that underlie it when it began, and when it changed and spread to a concrete court order, in the absence of a real court order issued by a lawfully constituted court.

    Yi-Ling (0a0e72)

  11. Here’s another report regarding the court order:

    “We still don’t know where Terri’s ashes were laid,” Bobby Jr said. “They were court-ordered, they were supposed to tell us, but we have not heard from Michael Schiavo.”

    Mr Schiavo’s lawyer, George Felos, could not be reached for comment.

    Xrlq (c51d0d)

  12. Xrlq, I checked your link and the terri’s fight link [ which was also referred to in your article as “The family has set up the Terri Schindler Schiavo Foundation to speak out on behalf of others in a similar situation.”] and did not find the court order. I have to for the moment take Bobby Jr’s comments placed by you as “suspect” as in Patterico’s link of Bobby Jr’s comments, he [ if he is the same Bobby Jr] made wide sweeping comments “They were supposed to tell us, and we still have not heard from … Michael Schiavo where Terri’s been laid,” said Terri Schiavo’s brother, Bobby Schindler. “Our family expected this. Michael has disobeyed court orders throughout the ordeal and continues to do so today.”

    IF indeed it was as Bobby Jr has said, “Michael has disobeyed court orders throughout the ordeal and continues to do so today” the teams of attorneys of Schindlers, would have good grounds to obtain relevant satisfaction from the court, for such “disobedience” of court orders”.

    It is possible that, reading Patterico’s quoted comments of the link, that, there has been unintentional merger by a secondary party reporting after reading the first reporting, and adding their own interpretation to it. What I mean is, is
    (1) first reporter says “They were supposed to tell us, and we still have not heard from … Michael Schiavo where Terri’s been laid,” said Terri Schiavo’s brother, Bobby Schindler. “Our family expected this. Michael has disobeyed court orders throughout the ordeal and continues to do so today.”
    (2) Second reporter ASSUMES there is a court order on “They were supposed to tell us, and we still have not heard from …” after reading the later portion “Michael has disobeyed court orders throughout the ordeal and continues to do so today” and “Our family expected this”. In other words, the second reporter, thinking the worst of Michael and also attorney of Michael, reads into first reporting that, there IS a court order requiring reporting of the ashes.

    The team of pro bono attorneys for Schindlers would be failing in their task, if it was true that “Michael has disobeyed court orders throughout the ordeal and continues to do so today.” And given the time cost of these pro bono attorneys for Schindlers

    If you check http://www.msnbc.msn.com; on the Count down with Keith Obermann site, he refers to the millions [ pro bono time cost of Schindlers team of attorneys- • OLBERMANN: Millions of dollars. • MCGEE: At least $20,000 for each filing.] the Schindlers have received to fight the legal case for Terri. With pro bono attorneys time cost or otherwise firms billing running into millions of dollars, are we saying that NONE of these competent attorneys can direct the relevant or necessary course of action to take, when “Michael has disobeyed court orders throughout the ordeal and continues to do so today”. I hope you are not asking me to assume that all of the pro bono attorneys are incompetent to advise legal recourse where a party to the case is “Michael has disobeyed court orders throughout the ordeal and continues to do so today” OR that the legal system will fail a party where another party “Michael has disobeyed court orders throughout the ordeal and continues to do so today” and the legal system provides no avenues of recourse or system to ensure compliance.

    IF indeed there is such a court order, then we can wait for the details of the court order to come out, as it must eventually come out. The details of it, would determine how it is to be read, and whether a reading of it would give the idea of non compliance. With legal fees paid to Michael’s attorneys’
    Attorney A: $ 10,000
    Attorney B: $ 65,000
    Attorney C: $ 7,000
    Attorney D: $ 1,000
    Attorney George Felos: $ 397,000

    I would also assume that Michael would be appropriately advised to comply with court orders as his attorneys have advised on law, not morality or ethics or religion or politics.

    Yi-Ling (255ff8)

  13. Apologies for erroneous HTML , redone for easier reading

    If you check http://www.msnbc.msn.com; on the Count down with Keith Obermann site, he refers to the millions [ pro bono time cost of Schindlers team of attorneys- • OLBERMANN: Millions of dollars. • MCGEE: At least $20,000 for each filing.] the Schindlers have received to fight the legal case for Terri. With pro bono attorneys time cost or otherwise firms billing running into millions of dollars, are we saying that NONE of these competent attorneys can direct the relevant or necessary course of action to take, when “Michael has disobeyed court orders throughout the ordeal and continues to do so today”. I hope you are not asking me to assume that all of the pro bono attorneys are incompetent to advise legal recourse where a party to the case is “Michael has disobeyed court orders throughout the ordeal and continues to do so today” OR that the legal system will fail a party where another party “Michael has disobeyed court orders throughout the ordeal and continues to do so today” and the legal system provides no avenues of recourse or system to ensure compliance.

    IF indeed there is such a court order, then we can wait for the details of the court order to come out, as it must eventually come out. The details of it, would determine how it is to be read, and whether a reading of it would give the idea of non compliance. With legal fees paid to Michael’s attorneys’
    Attorney A: $ 10,000
    Attorney B: $ 65,000
    Attorney C: $ 7,000
    Attorney D: $ 1,000
    Attorney George Felos: $ 397,000

    I would also assume that Michael would be appropriately advised to comply with court orders as his attorneys have advised on law, not morality or ethics or religion or politics.

    Yi-Ling (255ff8)

  14. New adjustments noticed today

    Click “constitutional law” and the only 2005 item left is Xrlq’s “4/11/2005 Still More on State Action” the rest have either been archived or removed.

    So that I can wait for Dom’s reply on MCS and PVS, can anyone advise where I can track the prior items on Terri and Schiavo or where they have been archived or removed to?

    Yi-Ling (255ff8)

  15. he is violating a court order by this behavior

    It has now been suggested to me also that “It’s possible he’s done nothing with them yet, which I doubt would violate the order.” I am waiting to see the court order and the precise terms of it.

    Yi-Ling (dd993a)

  16. […] is a murderer. There is ample evidence that he is scum. Apparently having failed in his efforts to hide his wife’s remains from her parents, he has done the […]

    Patterico’s Pontifications » Michael Schiavo’s Latest (0c6a63)

  17. […] is a murderer. There is ample evidence that he is scum. Apparently having failed in his efforts to hide his wife’s remains from her parents, he has done the […]

    🙂

    Yi Ling (f0ff8a)


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