Patterico's Pontifications

2/9/2009

Levi Juhl: His Blog About Stalking People (UPDATE: Likely Not His)

Filed under: — Patterico @ 7:15 pm

Posted as a public service for anyone interested in the University of Montana at Missoula student.

UPDATE: It is not certain that Juhl created this bizarre blog. Until I am certain this caveat will remain. Juhl has shown himself to be a stalking type personality in the past, but since I have learned that the claims made on the blog are not true, I question whether the site is genuine.

UPDATE x2: I now believe, although I can’t prove it definitively, that the likely culprit is someone who has commented under the name “shad.” shad has been accused of being a sock puppet on this site before, and while I don’t know that to be true, I believe he did sock-puppet Levi Juhl on one site recently.

This does not change the fact that Levi Juhl came on to my site using University of Montana computers and called a co-blogger of mine a “dumb fucking cunt.” I have ample evidence of that and can provide it to anyone upon request. But the below site is likely not Levi’s.

shad, j’accuse! Defend yourself!

136 Responses to “Levi Juhl: His Blog About Stalking People (UPDATE: Likely Not His)”

  1. Classic!

    I love it.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  2. Thanks, Patterico. Unfortunately, this twatwaffle is likely proud of its efforts. It is sad to see people that have no sense of shame.

    JD (c6800b)

  3. I love the line “and their STILL too stupid….”

    Great unintended humor there, courtesy of our favorite irony-impaired scum.

    Steverino (b12c49)

  4. Dude, what a she-bitch! I am ROTLFMAO at him.

    This is some kid who needs to get some ass (male or female) and stop creating Facebook, Google, MyBarack profiles.

    Dude, Levi, get a life. You are in college. Go do something fun and put away the PC. Go back to Germany — great porn there and lots of godless people to play with.

    Oh man, I am laughing so hard at this child. He is so the typical college boner.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  5. What a freaking sitzpinkler.

    LOSER!!!!111!!!eleventy!!!

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  6. I wish I could get on his blog. I think they pulled it.

    I am a bit sadistic and love arguing with tarts. So sad.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  7. FWIW – I do not believe that Levi did that blog.

    JD (c6800b)

  8. #6: Uh, whatever. I suspect “Obama über alles!!!!!” is probably Levi as well.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  9. JD,

    I wonder about that myself.

    And if he didn’t — then what in the hell is going on?

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  10. More specifically, JD, if this isn’t Levi’s blog — then what explains this set of coincidences?

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  11. Pat, um, no. Not Levi from MT. Go talk to your ISP if you want confirmation. Just not a sycophant though I find your site fun and informative at times.

    As I said, would be fun to blast him (Levi, Vox, Whatever) on his own blog. When you google it and click through, Levi’s alleged site has been pulled it seems.

    Cheers ladies.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  12. Hmmm, definitely something weird going on. May take a lot of DDT to spray all the trolls away.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  13. It can’t be real. Although it’s pretty damned funny whatever the hell it is.

    Peter (e70d1c)

  14. Patterico – I do not know how to explain the irrational. Having said that, in the post devoted to me, he says in the intro that people were making him look like an ass. The Levi that we have come to know and love would never in a million years admit that. Having said that, the connections outlined in your other thread show that there is clearly some relationship amongst the twatwaffles. How fucking difficult is it for people to simply be themselves, and not be a complete douchenozzle?

    JD (c6800b)

  15. Hmmm. No previous posts out there. So this is clearly some kind of moby. And the tone is, again, familiar.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  16. Yes SPQR, by the time you get rid of the opposition Patter-EE-koh will own an echo chamber with the usual suspects posting ranting about Obama and the LAT.

    Don’t you find the Levi’s of the world funny and entertaining? It is what makes the Blog interesting to read at times even if it gets boorish at times. Then you log off.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  17. OuA – Why don’t you email Patterico with your bona fides?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  18. Obama uber alles, if you don’t know the difference between trolls and people who discuss in good faith, then you ought to be lumped in with the Levi clones and banned too.

    The idea that removing trolls results in an echo chamber is either a lie, or an admission that none of dissenting view discuss in good faith.

    Given the sophistication of the latter thought, we’ll ascribe the former to you.

    SPQR (26be8b)

  19. Obama uber alles showed up on January 21, right about the same time that Levi reappeared.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  20. Oddly, Hax has e-mailed claiming not to be Levi and providing some details regarding himself (which I won’t share). I’m not 100% convinced he is Levi. Just 99%.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  21. OuA writes:

    “…Then you log off…”

    An excellent idea. Give it a try for a while, perhaps?

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  22. Patterico – Do those details match back to Levi’s facebook page from January? Hey, I’ll have a friend email Patterico. Since I have an anonymizer he won’t know the difference. ISP’s change all the time.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  23. Sadly, the Name Game is precisely that.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  24. SPQR,

    It is a blog. Have you seen what blogs look like across the internet? Some good, some bad but mostly junk.

    But frankly what makes a blog better than a Newspaper, et al is the fact that it does allow some silliness. Levi included.

    Not everything is ON POINT in blog world, it is rapid fire and individuals can find a vehicle of expression they have not been afforded in life. How refreshing.

    For serious discussion with intellectuals IMHO, I suggest other forums where individuals can’t hide behind anonymity.

    Daley,

    What purpose would sending Patter-EE-koh my bona fides do? I am here for enjoyment and I care a wit who you or Patterico are so why should you care about me. Take my comments for what they are and if you agree, great, if not fine too.

    If I am ever compelled to “know” someone here, however, I will be sure to reach out to Patterico and give him all my contact info.

    You all seems like fine chaps. Men with jobs and families who believe the same things I do but we don’t have to agree on everything.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  25. I do not think Hacks is Levi. Having said that, I do think that Hacks is a dishonest little twatwaffle, which places him in the same part of the Venn Diagram as Levi.

    JD (c6800b)

  26. Eric, I am not the one on this site in every thread posting 10-15 times.

    If anyone should log off and spend time with the family it might be you chap.

    Again, lighten up dude.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  27. Hmmm….

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  28. “What purpose would sending Patter-EE-koh my bona fides do? I am here for enjoyment and I care a wit who you or Patterico are so why should you care about me.”

    OuA – You are very good at misinterpreting the statements of others. I personally don’t give a shit about you. You are a relatively new commenter here as you have repeatedly demonstrated. You have made an ass of yourself on a number of threads, including one about the departure one of Pattericos co-bloggers that rubbed regulars of all persuasion the wrong way. You don’t know the history of the blog and you can be excused for that, but don’t read crap into peoples’ comments that isn’t there. That part of your act is as juvenile as Levi’s.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  29. “Eric, I am not the one on this site in every thread posting 10-15 times.”

    Drunkblogging about conception?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  30. Okay, I think that JD is a little too mean-spirited, and is a name-caller, etc… but I have to admit 24 is actually pretty funny.

    Ed from PA (d99227)

  31. Hax e-mailed me. I believe he is not Levi, but rather the commenter formerly known as “bunkerbuster.” He is a Marc Cooper fan and was active here a while back.

    I e-mailed him back and told him I prefer for people to use consistent names.

    This now raises the issue of whether the above page was truly written by Levi. It is possible that it was written by someone who suspected Hax was Levi and wanted Hax banned. If the page was not written by Levi, I want to know.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  32. By the way, Hax didn’t say he was bunkerbuster. I had to figure that out on my own. (Hax did not use the same IP address as bunkerbuster, or I would already have known this. It took investigative work of a different sort.)

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  33. (All Google, just so the nutcases don’t go ballistic.)

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  34. I saw that blog yesterday and at first didn’t know what to believe. It seemed too inane to be for real.

    Bradley J. Fikes, C. O.R., who wants DRJ back! (0ea407)

  35. Dear Patterico: despite my posting “10-15 times in every thread” (!) I appreciate your efforts.

    I wondered about the site above, too. There were several “homosexual slurs” directed at LJ on that blog, and it seemed odd for him to direct them at himself.

    But Byzantine is the mind of a undergraduate avoiding studying for an exam, I can promise you.

    Isn’t the website above via “Blogger”? Surely they would have an interest in a situation where Person B creates a website to cause Person A possible employment trouble?

    I’m no lawyer, but I know one thing. The internet is not truly private, and it is forever.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  36. I guess that is two things, isn’t it?

    I need coffee.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  37. Thank you, Bradley.

    “..fallaces sunt rerum species…”

    As for me,

    “…parva leves capiunt animas …”

    Sigh.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  38. Eric,
    But on a blog like this, the small minds are soon called out and discredited.

    The price we pay for this vigor of expression and free debate we get here (unlike at the LAT’s sterile conformist precincts), is some trolldom. I think what we gain justifies the price.

    Bradley J. Fikes, C. O.R., who wants DRJ back! (0ea407)

  39. Oh, I meant that MY mind was small for being overly concerned with all this!

    I have always been concerned with that version of Gresham’s Law as it applies to blog comments….

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  40. And such are the internets. A kid from the south side of chicago is sipping vino in san francisco, reading on his blackberry a site written by a texan in LA, on which the provenance on a pseudo-latin/greek-monickered overseas american commenter is discussed in the context of whether he’s *that* college student from Montana. The world isn’t just flat; it fits in my front pocket.

    Oh, and just for the webcrawlers – mendoucheous. And “manshake” just to throw them off too.

    Patterico, it is a credit to you that you care about what appears on your site. The huffington post was called on by name by President Obama today. (I’m sure that they were all like OMG!!!) But think about the bile, the venomous hate that appears there, with the only exception being the cheney/tony snow death-threat threads that are locked down. On one hand, you are a credit to your (part-time) profession; on the other, you should probably relax and let most of it go. Its not the real world.

    carlitos (70c2ba)

  41. Please tell me that comment appeared. It was long.

    carlitos (5e0805)

  42. Oh, bunkerbuster was banned. No wonder he didn’t want to come back under the same name.

    Here’s the thread that explains why he was banned.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  43. And that thread also reminds me of how we had the same tired arguments with bunkerbuster. Rush Limbaugh bad. LAT good. My site filled with errors (which he could never identify one). Wrong to criticize LAT unless a comprehensive study is done comparing it to every paper under the sun. Blah blah blah.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  44. I have e-mailed Hax and asked him to try assuming good faith on my part and see if we can start again from a basis of agreement on some points and respect for each other’s intellectual honesty. I enjoy having lefty commenters here and he seems smart, if (in my opinion) misguided on several matters. We’ll see what happens.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  45. Well, that does make for a rather convenient, if not “good” comparison:

    Who gets their facts wrong more often: Rush Limbaugh, or the LAT?

    Do you guys really want to go there?

    Hax Vobiscum (23258e)

  46. I thought this one sounded familiar. It is no less mendoucheous today than when it came around last time. I still think it has some kind of relationship to the LA Times.

    JD (c6800b)

  47. Now it wants to compare opinions on political matters to alleged factual reporting in the LA Times?

    JD (c6800b)

  48. Hax writes:

    “…Who gets their facts wrong more often: Rush Limbaugh, or the LAT?…”

    Hmmm. I was unaware that Rush Limbaugh has ever wrapped himself in the lofty cape of bias-free journalism. And last time I checked, Mr. Limbaugh doesn’t report straight news, but opinion.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  49. Definitely not real. Too many indicators:”…the great balancer to that crappy Patterico’s Pontifications blog where those fuckers laugh at me and everything I say.””I’m a tough motherfucker, don’t mess with me or I’ll spam your blog! Also, PLEASE DON’T CALL MY DAD!””…the bastards were responding to every comment I left and making me look like a total ass.””…I have made it my goal to spam and harass those fuckers because they won’t talk to me anymore.”Tags: irony, JD, pathetic, Patterico, stalking This isn’t the real deal. Nobody is overly-vindictive AND self-deprecating in the same breath. It’s clearly a caricature created by a detractor. It does seem to have effectively played on people’s ideas about Levi around here though…

    Tom (ee3708)

  50. I agree with JD and Patterico – no way Levi did that blog. Which means (and I say this in good faith) that it’s some weird-ass conservative’s attempt to parody him.

    In the words of Jim Morrison… “People are strange.” And they have way too much time on their hands.

    Leviticus (ceb0e1)

  51. I still think it has some kind of relationship to the LA Times.

    I’ll let Hax speak for himself, but I can tell you you’re wrong about that. I won’t say more than that. As part of an effort to show he’s not Levi, he revealed one or two things about himself — but it would be wrong for me to reveal any of that. That’s his business to reveal or not as he sees fit. But no, he’s not an LAT guy.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  52. So it’s ok to get facts wrong, as long as you say you’re giving an opinion?

    Or is the point that Limbaugh’s produce is fact-free and, therefore, cannot be compared to LAT?

    If you get stuff wrong, it doesn’t matter whether you wrap it in paper, plastic, opinion or news, it’s still wrong.

    Hax Vobiscum (8cb4c3)

  53. Patterico….

    Boy, I hate writing this. But.

    If Levi Juhl didn’t write that bizarre website above, is it still “findable” by potential employers?

    What to do about that, if anything?

    I don’t know. I’m just asking.

    I’m thinking about this for a related reason. I often sit on Academic Dishonesty Review boards at my college. We had a case last quarter in which a student was caught plagiarizing a term paper. The decision was made to give the student an “F” in that course, with an annotation on the student’s transcript stating “…grade assigned due to review board finding…

    I objected to the annotation, stating that the “F” was quite serious punishment. Expel the student, okay. But giving them a transcript with a statement bound to cause employers to inquire about this kind of thing is a ticket to zero job offers. Or so it seemed to me.

    Well, I was overruled. Nothing new there.

    Getting back to what may be a “fake blog” above. What to do?

    I’ll be interested in the pros and cons of this.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  54. Wow. I reread that thread from the summer and bunkerbuster’s absurd bluster and refusal to back up any of his sweeping generalizations about the media or conservatives. He demands explicit proof from others on their points, though. His act certainly hasn’t changed for the better.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  55. “If Levi Juhl didn’t write that bizarre website above, is it still “findable” by potential employers?”

    Eric – I think it’s an extreme jump into the world of fantasy to assume that Levi will ever be employed.

    Don’t get too excited.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  56. Heh.

    Leviticus (ceb0e1)

  57. The huffington post was called on by name by President Obama today. Comment by carlitos

    A hollow, psuedo-like president who most certainly glommed onto Zsa Zsa Gabor’s (aka Arianna’s) Internet site because of its political leanings, during a period of time when the MSM is gasping for air, has a rather surrealistic, squirrelly, bad-movie quality about it.

    Mark (411533)

  58. daleyrocks – 10:05 – double Heh.

    Also, the fact that the comments Levi wrote are findable, combined with what must be his ‘personality’, makes that false blog completely immaterial.

    Apogee (f4320c)

  59. Eric Blair,

    I added a prominent update above the image: a caveat that nobody could miss.

    Man, this page is getting a lot of comments for something that never appeared on the main site, and which I included only because people’s curiosity had been piqued regarding the site.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  60. Hey, I’m defending the guy. I’m just irritated that someone appears to have created an “anti-Juhl” site that claims to be authored by the guy.

    As you say, I don’t particularly “care a wit” (to coin an odd phrase) regarding LJ’s previous egregious statements.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  61. All Hack Scum is doing here is repeating the exact same debate that brought him out from under his rock last time.

    Patterico – I accept that I was wrong about him having some type of relationship to the LA Times. I would argue that since the threads where he has shown himself to be a complete douchebag, where he crawled out from under his rock, were threads where he has been voiciferously defending the fundamentally flawed reporting of the LA Times, it was not some crazy leap in logic on my part. Especially when he referred to the LA Times with the collective and possessive “our” in a prior thread.

    At any rate, it was mendoucheous before, and it has not changed a bit. The only difference in this thread is that it has not cowardly hid from your repeated requests to document your mistakes, since he cannot. The rest of the canards, faux intellectual superiority, and overal asshattery remains the same.

    Whoever parodied that site for Levi was funny. Very funny. I have my guess who it may have been, but unless someone wants to come clean, no need to venture any guesses.

    JD (c6800b)

  62. FWIW – Levi, even if you did not make the blog in question, you are still an asshat mendoucheous twatwaffle.

    JD (c6800b)

  63. Jeez, but it is late!

    “I’m NOT defending the guy.”

    Wow.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  64. JD: I’ll bet I know, too, now that I think about it.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  65. “Man, this page is getting a lot of comments for something that never appeared on the main site, and which I included only because people’s curiosity had been piqued regarding the site.”

    Patterico – That’s because Levi OWNS this site. He said so himself on many occasions, the little fuckstick.

    /sarc

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  66. And I will state, for the record, it is most certainly not me. I would have been exponentially more funny 😉

    JD (c6800b)

  67. All right, I’m shutting down comments on this page.

    Y’all can take your Levi and bunkerbuster/Hax arguments and such back to the original thread where it all arose.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  68. So it’s ok to get facts wrong, as long as you say you’re giving an opinion?

    Or is the point that Limbaugh’s produce is fact-free and, therefore, cannot be compared to LAT?

    It seems we’ve already been around this block with you, Hacks. But I’ll tell you what, you list 25 factual errors made by Limbaugh, and I’ll list twice that made by the LAT. Ready, set, go.

    Pablo (99243e)

  69. I will also state, for the record, that Hack Scum / rubberbabybuggybumpers is a dishonest hack.

    JD (c6800b)

  70. I’m re-opening this page for comments. See UPDATE x2. I believe I have located the culprit who created the phony Levi page.

    shad.

    shad, I want an apology or I am going to ban you.

    Patterico (cc3b34)

  71. And so once again a troll, so convinced of his own cleverness, makes the same mistakes as Nofanofrepublicans and is exposed by Patterico.

    Hilarious.

    Bradley J. Fikes, C. O.R., who wants DRJ back! (0ea407)

  72. Wow! A whole thread dedicated to “Levi”. The guy has become a hero of some sort here. Why the excessive attention? This is becoming ridiculous. How do you think he will feel, reading this thread? Seems like he’s gotten what he wanted: Attention. But let me not get in your way. Have fun kids.

    Emperor7 (1b037c)

  73. The thread concerned a stalking situation and that is why it gets the attention it did. There is a certain wild west flavor to the internet and blogs that allow comments. Patterico is a bit unusual because he puts all the effort into monitoring the comments and dealing with those who abuse the privilege. There have been a few instances, and Levi was one of them, where actual threats, implied or overt, were made by trolls. One involved Protein Wisdom a year ago where a crazy woman adjunct professor at U of Arizona threatened the bloggers children. She has since gotten into more formal legal troubles back in Oregon.

    If Tim is reading this, this is why I am not that impressed with adjunct law professors’ credentials. There was a Glen Greenwald example of threatening someone by contacting the family. Greenwald is also known for suing sock puppets, as is Hiltzik.

    Patrick has identified some of those sock puppets and even a stalker or two. Some of us post with real identities and have no worries about pimply faced undergraduates threatening us but others do have employment or family concerns and must be careful. There are nuts out there. This thread concerns the nuts.

    Mike K (2cf494)

  74. lovey:

    I am annoyed at shad for making this creep a topic of conversation again.

    Patterico (d5b947)

  75. Lovey – What is your native language?

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  76. Dr. K.:


    “…There is a certain wild west flavor to the internet …”

    I know what you mean by that, Dr. K., but I keep thinking of how Doc Holiday and Wyatt Earp would comment about internet “gunslingers.” Hmmm.

    That doesn’t mean that there are not really deeply disturbed people online. The awful Deb Frisch business is illustrative. There is at least one entire website devoted to that mess, which is a good thing, so that people who come across her know what went on (and is ongoing).

    I saw a commercial on television the other day. A little girl is standing in front of an audience, and then says some very hateful things, while smiling, about another little girl in the audience. The tagline was: “If you wouldn’t say it to their face, why would you write it on the Internet?”

    For MOST of the trolls, this is relevant. For a few others, they must get beaten up regularly. Civility isn’t a sign of weakness.

    That isn’t to say that vulgarians should not be treated in kind, of course.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  77. I’m your Huckleberry …

    JD (c6800b)

  78. Suing a sock puppet? geez……

    Mike K – is that really true???

    crazies out there total looney tunes

    EricPWJohnson (8e86b5)

  79. Comment by Patterico — 2/10/2009 @ 8:31 am
    I don’t believe I know that name. He must be a new poster here. In any case. Don’t feed the beast. It’s not worth your time. You have been doing an excellent job.

    Emperor7 (1b037c)

  80. JD:

    I guess that means, in this context, that Patterico should drawl “You’re no daisy”?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGpajGj07BU&feature=related

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  81. Daley

    1) Why do want me to send my “bona fides” to Patterico unless you wish to know something? You say I read into things that are not written — well then please explain oh dear one. Why send Patterico info unless you want to know something?

    2) I could spend 50 years here and I still wouldn’t understand the hyperventilating over any anonymous poster. Patterico can shut this down and so what, but somehow people like you who read things that don’t exist and turned that into some personal attack on DRJ. Pot meet kettle.

    3) The discussion about the beginning of human life and your referring to me as “drunk” for holding my position is pretty small of you, but hey now! I still suggest most of the folks advocating human life starts sperm/egg are using faith as a basis for discussion more than scientific reason. A zygote is a zygote. No way of feeding itself. No way of growing. No brain activity. No heart beat. Just the potential for human life — potential is a big word. BUT THAT STILL MISSES THE POINT AS TO WHY THE DISCUSSION STARTED …..

    4) Which is that certain posters were advocating the morning after pill is akin to murder. No better than a mother aborting a 3 month old pregnancy. AND as yet all the “intellectuals” on this have not spoken clearly on this issue and YES I AM INTERESTED IN HEARING.

    I would say 3 month abort is murder but morning after is not.

    So when you wish to dialogue, let me know. All your profanity, bluster and pompousness really are of no consequence.

    If you want to go beat up some pot head in MT on this blog go right ahead, it certainly is fun in my book but it is not the “Hi-Brow Intellectuality” you claim to wish to engage in.

    Gotta go. C ya

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  82. A whole thread dedicated to “Levi”. The guy has become a hero of some sort here.

    That’s funny, lovey. The last one had him looking like a fool.

    Pablo (99243e)

  83. Ummm..

    “A zygote is a zygote. No way of feeding itself. No way of growing.”

    Wrong again. In terms of biology, remember?

    Here we go again, threadjacking or not.

    What you are trying to discuss, I think, is when human life becomes a human being. That is quite different. What you have written several times—that a zygote is not human life, that it cannot grow until it implants in the uterine wall, and so forth—are, to be charitable, inaccurate.

    But you will continue to carry on about this. Why not move on?

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  84. Patterico can shut this down and so what, but somehow people like you who read things that don’t exist and turned that into some personal attack on DRJ.

    That would be Exhibit A that you have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about. Do carry on.

    Pablo (99243e)

  85. Victim OuA:

    1) Previously answered
    2) Previously answered – your comments to be deleted from thread
    3) Yawn
    4) Yawn

    When you figure out you’re not a victim here let people know.

    KBYTHX

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  86. Patterico can shut this down and so what, but somehow people like you who read things that don’t exist and turned that into some personal attack on DRJ.

    Lovey, please see my comment in that other thread.

    I’m going to stop being so polite with my suggestions.

    Scott Jacobs (a1c284)

  87. Eric – I think my favorite is where Doc says, “I will not be pawed at, thank you. I have not yet begun to defile myself”. Or, when he is quoting Latin with Johnny Ringo. Truly an epic classic movie.

    JD (c6800b)

  88. That’s better than my attempts to actually answer this person, daley. In the thread to which he refers, he challenged people to show “one” reputable source about a topic. Several people did. Then he changed the goalposts of the discussion. Then returned to the “no one believes” business. Sigh.

    This guy (I’m guessing) is just a troll.

    Here are his own words:

    “….I am a bit sadistic and love arguing with tarts. So sad…..”

    It’s just a game. Hence the name games, the snotty asides, the shifting standards (followed by the famous “don’t take things seriously” schtick), and so forth. And he did emerge at just about the time LJ did.

    Who knows who he really is, and it isn’t important. I just wish he would be more civil, and honestly discuss things with people. If he wants to play, he could always pretend to be a Republican at “Sadly No.”

    But then, that isn’t his game.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  89. Eric – I actually think that OuA fancies itself to be some type of conservative. From time to time, it does provide an interesting perspective. However, even I find its style off-putting, and I am no shrinking violet, to be sure.

    JD (c6800b)

  90. I trust your judgment, JD. But I smell bored undergraduate crossed with moby.

    However, I could be wrong.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  91. Eric and JD – The “I don’t understand” fallback excuse is just disingenuous in the extreme for someone who claims to play around on the internet. To act like a total dick one minute and they want to be nice, sort of like Lovey, coupled with pretending ignorance about his prior conduct rubs me the wrong way. Not someone to trust.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  92. Comment by Scott Jacobs — 2/10/2009 @ 9:12 am
    What the @^%$ are you talking about? And why do you keep threatening to be nasty? It’s becoming really tedious Scotty. The comment you were responding to is not even mine.

    Emperor7 (1b037c)

  93. Eric,

    What you have written several times—that a zygote is not human life, that it cannot grow until it implants in the uterine wall, and so forth—are, to be charitable, inaccurate.

    A zygote/embryo is human life? Charitable and inaccurate indeed ….. you may also wish to read this article from ACOG which supports my position and educates you in some way I hope ….

    http://www.acog.org/from_home/publications/ethics/co347.pdf

    Here is another great link which is more “hi brow”…..

    http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.all.org/abac/abac2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.all.org/abac/jch008.htm&usg=__0JPGtl72tubLuEkARJpCDDybcDE=&h=252&w=750&sz=34&hl=en&start=14&um=1&tbnid=9Dz3dB58R0dbcM:&tbnh=47&tbnw=141&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dembryo%2Bhuman%2Blife%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26hs%3DJLU%26sa%3DG

    But to me the thing that gets me is the Embryo as Human Life crowd don’t talk about uncomfortable things like …..

    1) Is the Morning After Pill akin to Abortion?

    2) A couple doing In-Vitro, are they guilty of murder because eventually some eggs need to be destroyed.

    3) What if a couple harvested an embryo for stem cells for a dying child? ** those cells are quite vunderful since they program themselves **

    So, hey, I am 100% anti-abortion but there is one hell of a graaaaay area in those first 14-18 days after fertilization.

    Again, ready to talk but as yet nothing but bluster and insults.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  94. Good dear Lord. “Nothing but bluster and insults”?

    There is little use talking with you about this. I think you are a moby, for one thing: a person who claims to have a shared political ethos (“…I’m a long term Republican who is voting for Obama…” etc) while actually believing the other “direction.” In other posts, you are open that you like to argue and battle with people. I’m not interested in your word games.

    Getting to the point of your latest post.

    You make extreme statements (which you condemn in others, incidentally) and then when confronted, claim you never made them—or you “change the goalposts.” And then you have the temerity to act snotty about biology with someone who is a professional biologist and biochemist. I’m not bothered by it; I deal with it from freshmen quite often. Their grades usually demonstrate that confidence without background preparation is a poor choice. Facts are facts, but you are used to politics where opinion is more important.

    What you are really doing is discussing philosophy and politics, not biology. But you apparenlty need to believe that biology serves your politics (as do most pro-choice individuals), but biology does not care, to be anthropomorphic about the discipline.

    The fact is you repeatedly stated that zygotes do not grow. This is untrue, as even the most cursory search of a textbook will show you. Zygotes multiply many times prior to implantation in the uterine wall. You now imply what you “really” meant was something else. You appear to want to say that a blastocyst prior to implantation is not human life, I would guess. What you mean, again, is that it is not a human being by your definition. Others may disagree with you. But the fact is you originally described a fertilized egg as static and incapable of growth by itself—because you need to believe that to support your political position.

    But I am discussing biology, not politics.

    You also claimed that birth control pills act differently than they do, and when confronted, moved to the “morning after” pill. That is moving the goalposts, and you tried to argue about that. Whatever. It’s tiresome.

    Bluster indeed.

    Overall, you seem to think that a fertilized egg is not human life. It terms of biochemistry, genetics, and the like, it most certainly is human life. It is not fully developed, no. It is the difference between “human life” and “a human life,” perhaps. Human life versus a human being, and I have stated over and over again in these posts. Are your tissues human life? Yes. If they are not human life, what are they? Are your tissues a human life? Not so much. And zygotes are different in terms of potential, compared to tissues.

    Regardless, claiming that fertilized eggs don’t grow and reproduce is inaccurate.

    I recommend you read an introductory biology textbook (Campbell et al is the one most commonly used in AP high school biology and introductory biology courses at the university level). You need to be very careful about letting politics direct your science. It is a dangerous conceit when politicians claim that science supports their position on a political question.

    None of what I am talking about here relates to the ethics of abortion. The determination of when a fertilized egg becomes a human being is a complicated, difficult, and a deeply troubling debate on all sides. It is not simple. RvW uses a Solomon like approach. But politics has gotten so extreme that even partial-birth abortion is supported by politicians as a right, including the new President of our nation.

    I’m not interested in discussing this with you further. You presumably have work to do, and so do I. And before you get all offended about insults, you might look to your own behavior.

    But then, you have been open that you like to battle people. I do not. Not to worry: there are plenty of people here who enjoy trading insults.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  95. And this:


    “…So, hey, I am 100% anti-abortion…”


    Is a great example of the Moby Concept.

    Eric Blair (ec334b)

  96. Discussing biology by saying zygotes grow? Define “grow” Eric?

    Grow usually implies increasing mass/weight. Grow in context to this discussion is “grow into a human being.”

    In neither context does a zygote grow. It does subdivide.

    A 10 acre plot of land does not GROW if divided into 24 1/2 acre plots.

    So let us talk biology now ………

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  97. Here is an example of your lack of honesty ..

    “You also claimed that birth control pills act differently than they do”

    False. I said birth control pills prevent implanting of zygotes. That is correct. Birth control pills do work this way. You then added they prevent menstruation. It is also true.

    So this jsutifies a rant that you know biology and have a Ph.D. and I am some moron who knows not even 9th grade bio?

    You got be be kidding. How can you talk to someone so silly? All you can do is joke with them and beat them with one lines.

    Frankly, you are a habitual “Fabricationist” who thinks himself uber alles. With respect to me, you are either inventing things not said or simply attacking a position based on some bad assumption you make.

    Example ….

    Questioning that I am 100% against abortion.
    Why question it when I posted NOTHING to contradict this point. Why argue otherwise when you see no evidence of it AT ALL?

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  98. In neither context does a zygote grow. It does subdivide.

    You’re an idiot. And your minimal IQ is subdivided into even smaller parts with every comment you make.

    nk (a12124)

  99. So now zygotes increase weight and mass … ergo grow.

    And I am an idiot?

    http://www.ask.com/bar?q=do+zygotes+grow&page=1&qsrc=0&zoom=Stages+of+a+%3CKW%3EZygote%3C%2FKW%3E|Development+of+a+%3CKW%3EZygote%3C%2FKW%3E|How+Is+a+%3CKW%3EZygote%3C%2FKW%3E+Formed&ab=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ehow.com%2Fabout_4587245_what-zygote.html

    Size
    A zygote is microscopic, the size of an egg cell. Although the cells in a zygote rapidly divide, the zygote does not grow larger. It only contains more cells and becomes hollow before implanting into the uterine lining.

    AND THEN GROWING … Idiot heal thyself.

    PAWNED as the kids say today.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  100. Size
    A zygote is microscopic, the size of an egg cell. Although the cells in a zygote rapidly divide, the zygote does not grow larger. It only contains more cells and becomes hollow before implanting into the uterine lining.

    ….. sorry, I am too busy laughing. It only grows larger once it embeds itself in the uterus . Hey now ain’t that waht I wrote 5,235 times …

    Let me repost the ACOG article for those interested in learning …..

    http://www.acog.org/from_home/publications/ethics/co347.pdf

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  101. I think that a fertilized human egg is clearly a hippopotamus.

    OuA – ’tis easier to simply admit you were wrong, that to act like an ignoranus.

    JD (341fdd)

  102. *yawn*

    TLove (012115)

  103. Is OUA still talking……..

    EricPWJohnson (8e86b5)

  104. Tlove !!!!! How goes it, hottie?!

    JD (341fdd)

  105. Hehehe. Same old here. =)

    TLove (012115)

  106. JD,

    I am 100% correct. Not one inaccuracy identified.

    Calling a fertilized, non-implanted egg human life is SCIENTIFICALLY speaking a major reach.

    It can not grow.
    It can not develop into its end state.
    It can not become anything remotely approaching human life.
    It has no brain, no nervous system, no organs.

    It/they are a bunch of cells which after implantation starts to “define themselves” and “organize themselves” into all our biological systems as we have right now.

    I just don’t even get what folks are retorting to. It is like chatting with a flat earther. Funny but not very intellectually stimulating.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  107. I see you guys are still arguing over the same old stuff. =)

    TLove (012115)

  108. I’m a farmboy. We raised chickens. Chicks with beaks and feathers and stuff got out of eggs and weighed less than the eggs my mother fried for us. You’re an idiot.

    nk (a12124)

  109. Eric,

    Read, you might learn something.

    Sitting around chatting with folks in the Patter-EE-koh Echo Chamber is not very Socratic.

    Eric Blair (48dd5e)

  110. I think fertilized non-implanted eggs are Komodo Dragons too.

    Tlove – How goes the career? I miss seeing you around here. I play nicer when you and DRJ are around 😉

    JD (341fdd)

  111. Hehe. I am still unemployed (a victim of Bush, as I like to call it). =)

    You should always play nice. Not everyone will always share your views, but that doesn’t mean they are wrong.

    TLove (012115)

  112. nk,

    I am an idiot but zygotes grow and are akin to human life. You got me there sport!!!!!!!!!!!

    Still waiting for all the lightweights to comment on the weightier issues because on the scientific ones the issue is dead an you’ve been pawned ….

    1) Is the Morning After Pill akin to Abortion?

    2) A couple doing In-Vitro, are they guilty of murder because eventually some eggs need to be destroyed.

    3) What if a couple harvested an embryo for stem cells for a dying child? ** those cells are quite vunderful since they program themselves **

    Obama uber alles (48dd5e)

  113. Sorry Eric, I typed your name and then screwed up.

    #113 is mine ladies.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  114. The morning after till prevents pregnancy. If you want to call that fghusmsdedh to make yourself feel better. Go right ahead. It is basically contraception.
    Comment by Obama über alles!!!!! — 2/6/2009 @ 8:51 pm

    Sorry if I sound pugnacious here but “contraception” means something prevents conception. The morning after pill does not prevent contraception; it stops a nascent life from developing. By definition, abortifacient. A tiny human life, yet a life nonetheless.
    Comment by no one you know — 2/6/2009 @ 8:54 pm

    noyk’s comment reinforced by Eric a short time later.

    Another of OuA’s scientific definitions:
    I don’t consider the morning after pill abortion because a) she does not even know she has a fertilized egg floating in her uterus and b) I don’t consider a fertilized egg life ANYWAY since it is not capable of growing.
    Comment by Obama über alles!!!!! — 2/6/2009 @ 9:19 pm

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  115. I don’t understand why you guys are all still arguing over abortion. The current law is fine. It is a compromise, probably the best we’ll get. Just deal with it. What ever happened to good old compromise??

    TLove (012115)

  116. I am not always so good at playing nice, Tlove. I tend to call a douchenozzle a douchenozzle. It is a flaw. I accept my shortcomings.

    I have no problem with people having different views. I like different views. I try to change nobody’s views. But folks that have differing views are interesting, provided they are capable of being honest in their beliefs, like yourself, aphrael, Leviticus, etc…

    Problem is that since Teh One’s ascension, the Leftists have been coming around like flies at a 4th of July picnic, showing their asses. I have little tolerance for that type.

    JD (341fdd)

  117. I’m a leftist, remember? The kind you hate – the far far left, liberal to the core, tree-hugging, animal-loving, abortion supporting, anti-Bush type…

    TLove (012115)

  118. TLove – But you’re hot. We can temporarily forgive you as long as you don’t smell too bad. Even then if you’re hot enough……

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  119. We already went through this crap with OUA on that abortion mill kills newborn thread. And a biology prof tore him up.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  120. #115,

    I said it stops pregnancy and is basically contraception. Inaccurate?

    I contended it is not human life as “no one you know” claims it is. Inaccurate?

    Ergo, morning after pill is not abortion to me. Inaccurate?

    I presented a paradigm for making this point stating that for it to be human life it needs to meet some prerequisites which as yet zygotes don’t meet. Not now, not ever.

    The American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology agree with me. They disagree with you.

    The rest is intellectual mediocrity wrapped in insults like JD, You, Eric, etc …….

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  121. See, that is where you are wrong. I do not hate Leftists. I just do not like the dishonest mendoucheous ones. You are not in that category, yet 😉

    JD (341fdd)

  122. John,

    You mean the biology prof who says zygotes grow when they don’t?

    At lest not if grow means grow and not sub-divide.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  123. JD, nice stream of insults.

    I guess you and the 5-6 guys who post ad nauseum through-out the day on every thread are the only ones welcomed here.

    Big cheerleeding squad mocking college age morons with low intellects and worse educations. Echo chamber indeed.

    Still as yet has anyone presented any argument or research to invalidate my points or reasoning on this issue.

    Go read the ACOG article.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  124. This is going absolutely nowhere . . .
    Comment by Bradley J. Fikes, C. O.R., who wants DRJ back! — 2/10/2009 @ 8:04 pm

    I agree …

    Go read the ACOG article and stop objecting to something without some objective research to challenge your beliefs.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  125. OUA, your assertions of definitions never survived any dialectical examinations.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  126. “The rest is intellectual mediocrity”

    OuA – Opinions are like assholes. When you get to define your own terms as you do here, everyone’s but your’s stinks.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  127. #127, ok so please examine my definitions of Human Life or even “Life” …

    #128, you can call my position an opinion but some are better researched, better grounded in facts and more logical.

    As I said, go argue with the ACOG. I am sure your (plural) opinions and insight are so powerful as to over-turn the leading researchers and practitioners of Obstetrics and Gynecology in the USA. Take Eric the biologist with you too.

    I suggest you test it out on me first however. I present a slightly more critical thinking process than what others present here……even if I am mendouchas jerky jerky mousishish right wing communist Obama loving Reagan rejoicing, Goldwater liberterian.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  128. FYNQ

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  129. OUA, you are far more annoying than Emp. Really, you are.

    John Hitchcock (fb941d)

  130. OuA – You were carved and served on these points four days ago, you just can’t admit it and your further flailing and lying about your prior positions today proves it. You are not worth my time. You are an intellectual hack.

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  131. #130, #131

    towel,
    ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding
    ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding
    ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding
    ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding
    ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding

    Finally, have a nice evening ladies.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  132. #132,

    ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!

    Go argue with the American Board of Obstetrics and Gynecology. Hacked indeed.

    light …..

    ….. weight.

    Obama über alles!!!!! (48dd5e)

  133. Heh. Lightweight? Do tell junior.
    __________________________________
    Fertilized Egg + Working Womb = Human Life.
    Fertilized Egg + Working Womb = Human Life.
    Fertilized Egg + Working Womb = Human Life.
    Fertilized Egg + Working Womb = Human Life.
    Fertilized Egg + Working Womb = Human Life.
    Fertilized Egg + Working Womb = Human Life.
    Fertilized Egg + Working Womb = Human Life.
    Fertilized Egg + Working Womb = Human Life.
    Fertilized Egg + Working Womb = Human Life.
    Fertilized Egg + Working Womb = Human Life.
    Fertilized Egg + Working Womb = Human Life.

    Comment by Obama über alles!!!!! — 2/6/2009 @ 10:01 pm

    __________________________________________________

    daleyrocks (5d22c0)

  134. Yet, eh? =P

    TLove (012115)


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