Republican Lawmakers Storm the Gates…Or Something Like That
[guest post by Dana]
It’s simple. The American people deserve transparency, yet House Democrats continue to ram through their impeachment investigation in secret and behind closed doors.
“What are the Democrats hiding about the impeachment inquiry?” pic.twitter.com/nSka8kFIHT
— House Republicans (@HouseGOP) October 23, 2019
So this was a thing yesterday:
Fox News is told that the members led by Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fla., actually entered not just the non-secure anteroom and hallways of the Sensitive Compartmentalized Information Facility (SCIF), but the secure room where Cooper was to be deposed.
That’s where members are not supposed to have electronic devices. Members are asked to agree to an oath that they will not do so. The facility was swept for electronic devices after member gave up their devices.
It appeared one member didn’t surrender their device, prompting a deeper scrub that took around two hours.
The standoff occurred after lawmakers held a news conference accusing Democrats of lacking transparency and specifically calling out Schiff, who is leading the impeachment investigation into President Trump.
From there, the House Republicans stormed in the room where Cooper, who has overseen Ukraine policy at the Pentagon, was set to testify.
[…]
The members who violated the rules of the SCIF could be referred to the House Ethics Committee, one source told Fox News.
“We made our point,” said one Republican who asked not to be identified.
After filling their tummies on Dominoe’s pizza, the invaders allegedly sought martyrdom for their cause:
There was never any threat of arrest, but a source said some members asked to be arrested, citing the optics of being marched out of the SCIF in handcuffs in front of throngs of reporters and news cameras. That would have surely supported a running GOP narrative that Democrats have run amok with the impeachment process.
Be proud and walk tall, GOP.
Today, 44 Republicans signed onto Lindsay Graham’s resolution condemning the impeachment inquiry.
Also, President Trump sent his thanks to Republican lawmakers for their heroic efforts…well, some of them anyway… not the human scum ones:
Thank you to House Republicans for being tough, smart, and understanding in detail the greatest Witch Hunt in American History. It has been going on since long before I even got Elected (the Insurance Policy!). A total Scam!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) October 24, 2019
(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)
–Dana
Full confession: I am bored by the whole impeachment story. I know it’s Very Important, however I am more interested (and amused) by the Republicans’antics than I am interested in the daily details of the inquiry. So there!
Dana (05f22b) — 10/24/2019 @ 5:35 pmThis is a great day for civilization.
Dave (46b27e) — 10/24/2019 @ 5:56 pmDue process bothers you:
https://thefederalist.com/2019/10/24/cnn-failed-to-disclose-biden-apologists-business-ties-to-burisma/
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:00 pmDid they make up sh*t about people spitting on them?
No? Amateurs.
harkin (6776a3) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:03 pmAs lee zeldin pointed out, nor classifed info was discussed.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:07 pmI’m amused and disturbed by storming the SCIF.
Amused because that’s the same crap Democrats pulls..
whembly (c30c83) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:09 pmDisturbed because that’s a major breach of conduct… SCIFs need to be cleared and swept by Intelligence Community before using that room as a SCIF again.
It was a pretext to leak self serving narrative to the press.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:10 pmOh how about that:
https://www.redstate.com/sister-toldjah/2019/10/24/watch-crenshaw-busts-schiff-points-exact-rule-house-rules-book-gives-gop-access-impeachment-docs/
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:12 pm‘Gaetzflies’ like Matt are a dime a dozen. And with that haircut of his, any publicity distracting from it is a plus. But he’s no Newtie.
Anybody check on who quilled these House ‘rules’ they find despicable to start with, Matt?
The GOP, under Leader Boehner– and signed off by the GOP run House, maybe?
Oops. And 17 pizzas for you?? pepperon and mushrooms or just a ‘white’ pie all around? Not only lazy– but lardazzes as well.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:16 pm8… very interesting, narciso!
Also, OT, but the Durham probe is now a criminal investigation.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:23 pmThe inquiry should be treated with the sobriety it deserves, richmont high riles.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:27 pmLOL it’s like a student counsel campaign.
If ever I wonder how the hell Trump managed to be president, I just look at the GOP, then at the Democrats, and realize… yeah.
Dustin (504bb1) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:27 pmTargets of investigations don’t receive “due process” while being investigated. Did the parents charged in admission scandals get to question the persons providing evidence against them before they were indicted? No! Their lawyers can question them at trial (but apparently most of them concede the evidence.)
Trump can question the evidence and witnesses at his impeachment trial in the Senate.
Rip Murdock (b9d253) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:28 pmThere should have been no cooperation with mueller from the getgo, the same treatment they meted out to ken starr.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:29 pmThe democrats clearly have enough to impeach, so indeed why aren’t they just voting on it? They are seeking political advantage through timing, and to some extent, the terrible things Putin will do through Trump become their fault too. Sure, it would be neat for Warren if this is too late for the GOP to figure out a decent candidate.
Dustin (504bb1) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:32 pmDid you think no one should cooperate with Ken Starr? Why?
Dustin (504bb1) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:32 pmThe dems dont care whose lives they ruin through ethical camplaint abuse, malicious prosecution, slanderous defamatiok that put lives in danger.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:33 pmTake the duke lacrosse case, 10 yeara after the jump to conclusions, william cohan comes back and slimes them again, ,
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:37 pmAnd thats the kind of trash that
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:39 pmvanity fair employs, someone who takes a lnowm defamer like cryatal mangum at face value.
1. I am bored with the whole American Body Politic.
Gryph (08c844) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:39 pm15. That’s the ugly truth about all this. A vote for impeachment will almost certainly fall along party lines, which means such a vote would succeed with the current makeup of the house. I think the Dems fear what will happen in the Senate should this go forward now. Even if most of the electorate has forgotten what happened to Bill Clinton in the course of his impeachment, the Dems haven’t forgotten.
Gryph (08c844) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:41 pm— A la Bastille, mes frères!
nk (dbc370) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:44 pm— Liberté!
— Égalité!
— Oranges!
Apres le deluge, vien en terror.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:47 pmWhy would holding this interviews in public hinder fact finding? Easy, it wouldn’t
iowan2 (9c8856) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:47 pmIt would, however eliminate selected leaks. Leaks of highlighted testimony, 70 seconds of
testimony, from a 10 hour interview.
Democrats demand all the transcripts be locked down, but every single leak, is by Democrats.
proving that Democrats are incompetent. Can’t secure their own hearings.
Star chambers deserve all the crap they get.
Kevin M (19357e) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:48 pm“Star chambers deserve all the crap they get.”
This isn’t a trial, that happens in the senate.
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:51 pmThe democrats clearly have enough to impeach, so indeed why aren’t they just voting on it? They are seeking political advantage through timing
If they have a credible case (e.g. the man is unfit) and take it to the Senate this year, they might get a conviction.
If they play if for political timing and send it to the Senate after the GOP is stuuck running Trump, it will not only be rejected by a unanimous GOP, but the voters will see it for an obvious political ploy — the ultimate negative campaigning — and the backfire will be legendary.
Kevin M (19357e) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:52 pm“Star chambers deserve all the crap they get.”
This isn’t a trial, that happens in the senate.
It’s a trial in the House, too. If a preliminary one. Both Nixon and Clinton’s hearings were open and televised, with witnesses called by all sides. This is cherry-picked testimony in a back room, with the “grand jury” being all people who would be disqualified from a real one.
Kevin M (19357e) — 10/24/2019 @ 6:55 pmFor the Clinton impeachment, you might remember there was an independent council that spent years in closed door investigations, before turning over the documents to the House. Nixon, the same thing.
If you want a Special/Independent Counsel/Prosecutor fine, but it’s not required as in just a few weeks, ample 1st hand evidence has been collected. The likelihood of Barr appointing one if Trump shoots a baby, a white one with two republican Trump supporter parents from Alabama, on live TeeVee on Fifth Avenue is nil.
The protest of this particular witness, who was testifying to classified, DoD information specifically, is idiotic. But looking at the participants, idiotic is par for the course.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:00 pmUnfortunately, the democratic party is such a dumpster fire Trump was possible.
The thing is, this isn’t really the Bill Clinton situation. Trump’s made severe and bizarre mistakes in foreign policy. His G7 decision was corrupt. That’s just the last few weeks. This is more than perjury, not to minimize that.
Trump’s calling many republicans “scum” at this point. The political party should consider whether it wants to be one.
Dustin (504bb1) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:05 pmThe good thing about these Trumpablicans is that they’re not betraying America out of loyalty to Trump. They’re betraying America to keep their phony-baloney jobs. (Can I get a harrumph?) They’ll turn on Trump in a New York minute if they figure that’s more expedient for their job security.
nk (dbc370) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:10 pmNo there is no such info, otherwise it wouldnt appear in the new york times, just like they laundered political skulduggery in order to surveil carter page for a year.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:18 pm@30 His G7 decision, that was rolled back, is worthy of impeachment? It’s more serious than perjury?
Frosty, Fp (f27e97) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:20 pmLOL
Dustin (504bb1) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:21 pm“It’s a trial in the House, too. ”
It’s more like a grand jury, which are typically held behind closed doors.
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:22 pmR.I.P. The Watchmen franchise.
The wokest, most racist, far-left America-hating crap you ever did not want to see.
Kevin M (19357e) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:24 pmIt’s more like a grand jury, which are typically held behind closed doors.
Grand juries aren’t usually composed of people who hate the accused. Matter of fact you try to avoid people like that.
Kevin M (19357e) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:26 pmYes that one stank from the get go, robert redford has been president for life, reparations have not made thinks hunky dory?
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:30 pmWe’re talking a dc grand jury, all bets are off.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:30 pm“The democrats clearly have enough to impeach, so indeed why aren’t they just voting on it? They are seeking political advantage through timing, and to some extent, the terrible things Putin will do through Trump become their fault too.”
I think that the reason it’s being run this way is that the Democrats believe that the Articles of Impeachment will be their primary means of communicating Trump’s criminality to the public. I’m certain that McConnell is going to do everything in his power to mess with the Senate trial, so this might be the Democrats only chance to get a clear unified message out.
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:31 pmThe thing is, this isn’t really the Bill Clinton situation. Trump’s made severe and bizarre mistakes in foreign policy. His G7 decision was corrupt. That’s just the last few weeks. This is more than perjury, not to minimize that.
Trump’s calling many republicans “scum” at this point. The political party should consider whether it wants to be one.
As I’ve said, trying to force this process into a criminal trial is delusional. Trump needs to be impeached because he is a clear and present danger. Even if he was a total Boy Scout he would need to be impeached. Luckily the Constitution does not limit Congress to any specific reasons.
As for the G7 thing, are you saying that Reagan having Gorbachev to his ranch was corrupt? Must a president divest himself of hotel stocks so that no bureaucrat “enriches” him? The whole “emolument” thing is BS anyway, invented due to a misguided need to have a “crime” for impeachment.
You can impeach and convict a president for wearing a green tie, if you have the votes.
Kevin M (19357e) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:33 pm“Grand juries aren’t usually composed of people who hate the accused.”
All the more reason to avoid committing high crimes and misdemeanors.
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:34 pmIt was a long time coming, but Washington DC is finally just one poorly-scripted reality TV show.
JVW (54fd0b) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:37 pmYou can impeach and convict a president for wearing a green tie, if you have the votes.
The Washington version of “you can indict a ham sandwich.”
JVW (54fd0b) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:39 pmWhat I suspect is that the Democrats all know that none of the dipwiddles lining up for the Democratic nomination has any chance against anybody other than the criminal traitor Trump.
It’s 2016 all over again, same strategy, slightly different tactics. Then they wanted Trump first in the Republican primary, now they want him alone with no serious challenger at all (which is what is happening with the foot-dragging impeachment).
nk (dbc370) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:39 pm@34 That’s been my reaction a lot lately. Are you going to be able to cope with never getting past the inquiry phase? There’s a real possibility we’ll never get a vote in the house and you seem to have a lot emotionally invested.
Frosty, Fp (f27e97) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:40 pmYou could ask ted stevens about dc grand juries (complete with jurors appearing in fl star fleet uniform)
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:45 pmKeep pressing Schiff and his gang of assclowns for the documents which are not to be withheld per what Crenshaw found.
Trump is a threat to the entrenched old guard… he doesn’t care about their protocol, doesn’t care about how much they loved making money there in China, doesn’t care for keeping our military involved where there is no clear objective or exit strategy, he seems to believe it’s all detrimental to our national security.
They want him out and that’s what this entire stinking mess is all about.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:49 pmI do love my country, true. I’m not sure I understand the rest of this troll. The USA is better than Trump and every moment the corrupt coward is in office is shameful.
Dustin (504bb1) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:55 pmVote for Trump = ISIS
Dustin (504bb1) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:56 pmThe “grand jury” comparison is fine, but pick your procedure and stick with it.
Is this a criminal investigation? Then the DoJ is in charge. The house of representatives has no constitutional power to investigate crimes. So which is it? Criminal, are political? The house has an enumerated power to impeach, and by SCOTUS rulings, the power to conduct impeachment inquiries. So,again, political, or criminal?
No, you can’t pick a little of this and some of that. Criminal power to prosecute, with none of the criminal due process.
House rules are what the rules are. The parliamentarian was asked for the rules governing these hearings, and so far has not produced the rules Schiff is operating under. The house rules also state that when no written rule is on point, house precedent shall be controlling. Precedent would be the ranking member with subpoena power, and the Presidents counsel can sit in on testimony.
So again, what are the Dems doing? Criminal? Political?
iowan2 (9c8856) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:03 pmNo that was the other guy, who pulled kut of iraq, kept malaki in power for eight years brett mcguirk might have had something to do with that.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:04 pm”All the more reason to avoid committing high crimes and misdemeanors.”
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 10/24/2019 @ 7:34 pm
Sounds like a proud graduate of the Nifong School of Law.
Munroe (53beca) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:09 pmWhat I have never understood is how Trump and Pelosi never fight when it’s time to fatten Deep State some more with another trillion dollar increase to the national debt. Why is that, do you think?
nk (dbc370) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:16 pm“Sounds like a proud graduate of the Nifong School of Law.”
Lol if you think Trump is being railroaded.
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:16 pmIt’s similar not same. The DOJ still has zero roll in impeachment, no matter how much squirrel you through around. Either learn what the constitution says, or, well, continue to spout nonsense.
Article One, Section Two, Clause Five
They’re following their mandate, in the constitutionally prescribed way, if they wanted to do it via tweet, so trumpkins can understand it, that’s up to Nancy Pelosi. Kind of like how Newt chose the process for Clinton.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:20 pm“Criminal power to prosecute, with none of the criminal due process.”
What due process is Trump not being afforded? Impeachment is not a trial. That comes in the senate.
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:23 pmmr. donald the president has an article eleven (that’s ii to you human scum who don’t know your roman numerals) and he cannot legally commit any crimes so of course he’s being railroaded
nk (dbc370) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:23 pmI guess we are to expect the corrupt justice that is the coin of the realm in chicago.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:26 pm”Lol if you think Trump is being railroaded.”
Davethulhu (fe4242) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:16 pm
Verdict followed by “grand jury” would seem to be a railroad in action.
Munroe (53beca) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:30 pmBut Clinton! But Obama! But Chicago!
nk (dbc370) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:33 pmDid I miss something, is the Congress of the United States now in Chicago? Did the trial in the Senate not allow Trump his constitutionally mandated defense?
Do they not explain that in the troll farm intro course?
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:33 pmWow, I can’t believe the Senate convicted him in the trial. Now Hillary Clinton is president, right?
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:34 pmThey were never held account, now lucille bluth dispenses justice, and theve emolumenting for nearly 20 years.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:35 pmTroll farm is what this place has become, there were some and shallow people that would pop up here, but they didnt atay long.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:36 pmYou should have the writers of your script correct that before you post it to other places, it’s incomprehensible.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:38 pmSays 3rd shift farmer.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:39 pm”Wow, I can’t believe the Senate convicted him in the trial. Now Hillary Clinton is president, right?”
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:34 pm
It seems your troll farm intro course glossed over comment reading comprehension, or you audited it.
Munroe (53beca) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:41 pmBut you stuck around, like it’s your job, and oddly it’s 80% spam, 19% incomprehensible, sometimes there’s a kernel, like a couple hours after you eat corn on the cob.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:42 pmSure, one of us knows things, one doesn’t. You probably think that one is you.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/24/2019 @ 8:50 pmhttps://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRaZzKiWDPcypoiOiexgp-oZ3RIv_Nzsa6y2f5LxsR3ojCCa11KNBFZhb-Aqw&s
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:15 pmHe knows nothing.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:15 pmBut hes so confident in what he doesnt know:
https://mobile.twitter.com/ClimateAudit/status/1187521584250212352
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:17 pmLucille bluth is the harridan pelosi, who in turn is responsive only to cortez and nutbars like maxine watersn
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:20 pmNews you can use?
https://medium.com/the-mission/higher-cholesterol-is-associated-with-longer-life-b4090f28d96e
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:22 pmU.S. Attorney John Durham’s ongoing probe into potential FBI and Justice Department misconduct in the run-up to the 2016 election through the spring of 2017 has transitioned into a full-fledged criminal investigation, two sources familiar with the investigation told Fox News on Thursday night.
One source added that DOJ Inspector General Michael Horowitz’s upcoming report on alleged FBI surveillance abuses against the Trump campaign will shed light on why Durham’s probe has become a criminal inquiry. Horowitz announced on Thursday his report would be available to the public soon, with “few” redactions.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/john-durham-investigation-fbi-misconduct-criminal-probe
Munroe (53beca) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:22 pmHmmm, you guys are so clever. Now, about that Trump guy, and how great he is, and how all those terrible people tattling on him are so mean. Those mean people just don’t understand that just because Trump is breaking all of those pesky “rules”, he’s doing it for his people.
You know, Vlad, his peeps.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:24 pmTaylor was out of the picture for 10 years, kent could do nothing re corruption issues through 2016, hill was also out of the picture for nearly that long, they seem to have forgotten that obama gave no real firepower to ukraine.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:29 pmSo the (Ret) isn’t an abbreviation for “Retired” after all…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:31 pmThey make up carp, thats how they survive:
https://mobile.twitter.com/Techno_Fog/status/1187564052488306688
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:34 pmMeanwhile real spies just traipse through and steal the kitchen sink.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:35 pmKeep drinking that vodka klink, sooner or later you’ll see your ghost Putin. YFD.
mg (8cbc69) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:40 pm@76 Wait. Wait! I know how this works!
The… sources… aren’t?…um…. named? So they don’t… exist? AND! They are… liars? from the … wrong? ….political… party?
Right? Did I get it right?
Nic (896fdf) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:41 pmIn Germany we drink bier, it always go back to Russia with you guys, you’re all about defending the Putin. Even if that means defending that moron Donald J Trump, what a doofus.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:47 pmNo pay attention:
https://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/culture-news/292763/angelo-codevilla?fbclid=IwAR2CcA9E9EfRzmM7h0sOii8_HgvxTGWwYf-E3h1yg998MkAfMC2i_ElRTuA
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:53 pmAgain, get better translations.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:54 pmIn germany they trust russia so much, they put a former atasi agent and counterpart of putin in charge of the gas pipeline.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 9:54 pmThe whole reason they created this smokescreem which has been going for at least three years was to hide their own footprints and ben rhodes was right the average washington journalist doesnt know anything
narciso (d1f714) — 10/24/2019 @ 10:02 pmTrump to attend World Series game on Sunday. He did play ball at military school so please, do have him hurl a white projectile at a black catcher for the left/right punditry to umpire.
This is all such a waste of time and money. Censure him an move on. The ‘big stall’ over the SCOTUS nom a few years ago should tell you what McConnell thinks of institutional procedure. Just as Pelosi stalled w/t Mueller Report in hand– she wants the voters to do the dirty work and reap the rewards.
Both these major political parties just plain suck from top to bottom. And that does make Putin smile.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/24/2019 @ 11:45 pmLieawatha voters congregate here and spew they’re democrat talking points. The hate puts never trumpers at the gates of hell.
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2019 @ 1:55 amnever trumpers won’t even get a trophy for participating in these hoax exhibitions. get back to your mommies basement and pout.
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:05 amPierre Delecto/2020
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:11 amhttps://legalinsurrection.com/2019/10/branco-cartoon-secret-police/
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:21 amhttps://thefederalist.com/2019/10/24/why-its-not-surprising-voters-dont-think-trumps-rhetoric-is-disqualifying/
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2019 @ 3:03 amHistory proves presidential rhetoric has been around for many many years.
Good link, mg. There was one incite I must commend:
It boils down to “if you wish to persuade, you must listen.
felipe (023cc9) — 10/25/2019 @ 4:20 am“incite” LOL!
felipe (023cc9) — 10/25/2019 @ 4:21 amOT: Can the legal eagles here comment on Powell’s latest court filing for Flynn??
https://www.scribd.com/document/431958737/Flynn-Filing-October-24th-Brady-Material-1
I get that Powell is a defense attorney for Flynn and vigorously defending him… so this is sorta one sided of course.
But, man this is compelling.
This taints everything and anything that has to do with the whole Russian Collusion ordeals.
whembly (c30c83) — 10/25/2019 @ 4:37 am56.I already pointed out the DoJ does criminal investigations. You agree with me. Now explain it to Democrats. Democrats are the one saying they must conduct their investigations in private like a grand jury. Like a grand jury, that is impaneled for a criminal investigation. Except it is NOT criminal.
iowan2 (9c8856) — 10/25/2019 @ 4:51 amPolitical. Hearings in public unless classified information is needed to conduct the inquiry. Reporting has every single witness being told by Schiff, that the hearing is not in anyway handling classified information. Why is this in a SCIF? So no documentation can exist, but for that Schiff creates.
We know from documents presented to a Judge yesterday by Sydney Powell, representing Micheal Flynn, Government Agents edit hand written 302 documents. Evidence presented shows the edited 302 contain facts not present in the hand written contemporaneous memos written during the interview. Those hand written notes are presented as evidence to support the findings of Govt agents altering the fact.
Schiff has history of lying, about more than circumstantial evidence of President Trump colluding with Russia, and about him or his committee having no contact with a Whistle Blower.
The only way to keep political actions honest, is to conduct as much of their activities as possible in open.
Impeachment is a political undertaking. Precedent, a stated House Rule, mandates impeachment inquires happen in public
I don’t know if Trump did it or not. I suspect her did.
I also suspect that if there were damaging public testimony his defenders would be saying that this was just theater to embarrass president and that it should be done in private and only brought public only once there was a compelling case.
Personally I’m fine with them holding hearings in private to try and actually learn what’s going on. Public hears have a terrible signal to noise ratio.
I won’t support impeachment until the testimony is entered publicly and all the non-classified transcripts are released.
Time123 (c9382b) — 10/25/2019 @ 5:01 am97. Powell has evidence the Flynn 302 contains statements unsupported by the contemporaneous notes take during the interview. Powell has communication with FBI agents and leadership, actively, knowingly subverting FBI protocol to interview Flynn. Communication reveal the purpose of the Flynn interview, was specifically designed to trap him into a mis-statement that could be used to force a resignation.
I followed the last sentencing hearing of Flynn live the day it happened. The Judge was insistent that Flynn may want to challenge the charges, but he refused, instead reaffirmed his guilty plea. The Judge delayed the sentencing yet again. It is obvious, Flynn was protecting his son from malicious prosecution, something the Govt promised it would do if Flynn fought the charges in any way. I don’t doubt Powell had a heads up about Barr and Durham, being back in charge of the DoJ, and honest men now have nothing to fear.
Barr and Durham, have now elevated their inquiry on the origins of the Russian scam, to a criminal investigation. That elevation is due to evidence already collected.
iowan2 (9c8856) — 10/25/2019 @ 5:04 amHouse Republicans say: “It’s simple. The American people deserve transparency”…. “What are the Democrats hiding about the impeachment inquiry?”
Yes. Indeed. What are the Democrats hiding? But wait… Who is refusing to cooperate with the inquiry?
You don’t say.
noel (f22371) — 10/25/2019 @ 5:31 amThe White House refuses to cooperate with an impeachment inquiry then has the gall to demand “transparency”. You can’t make this stuff up.
noel (f22371) — 10/25/2019 @ 5:33 amOne, there were closed hearings during Benghazi. Gowdy bounced Issa for crashing.
Paul Montagu (00daa1) — 10/25/2019 @ 5:35 amTwo, 13 of the 40-some storming Republicans are on the committee and were already in the SCIF before the other Republicans went on their publicity stunt. It’s not as if the GOP were being shut out of the process.
Three, the event was coordinated with the Trump White House.
Four, open hearings would only result in grandstanding and delays, which is what Trump & Co. really want.
Five, Gaetz is an unlikable hyperpartisan douchebag.
I didn’t watch it live. But did watch a clip. My conclusion was different. To me it looked like the judge wanted Flynn to stop trying to have it both ways. Either change his plea to not guilty or admit what he did was wrong. Than when he didn’t change his plea the judge delayed sentencing so he’d still have to co-operate. Keep in mind that Flynn is likely to get probation with a chance of a few weeks in jail. He’s not looking at months or years.
But ymmv
Time123 (cd2ff4) — 10/25/2019 @ 5:43 am89 – DCSCA, would a Japanese-American with possible interned forebears (Nats C Kurt Suzuki) suffice?
urbanleftbehind (e3cc8c) — 10/25/2019 @ 5:57 am…on further review maybe not, he’s Hawaian born might have the stain of knowing some judges.
urbanleftbehind (e3cc8c) — 10/25/2019 @ 5:59 am103
True.
I’m on record that “storming” the SCIF is dumb for practial reasons and while its the same crap the Democrats pull, it’s still dumb.
Actually, only the Chairperson can issue subpoenas so GOP cannot call their own witnesses. So, yeah they’re not full participant of this impeachment ‘inquiry’.
While dumb… I don’t see how that matters, other than giving appearance of being sycophants for the Whitehouse.
Conducting impeachment hearings in the open, ala Clinton/Nixon, should be the standard because this is literally a political process. In that, consensus need to be built publicly to proceed on Articles of Impeachment in a good faith endeavor.
I don’t see a lot of good faith on the Democrat’s side here.
Agreed. He annoys me to no end.
whembly (fd57f6) — 10/25/2019 @ 6:20 amAs compared to whom, the last administration was conducting treason as a matter of course.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/25/2019 @ 6:24 amDouble or triple standards:
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/nicholas-fondacaro/2019/10/24/cbs-nbc-censor-ethics-probe-dem-rising-star
narciso (d1f714) — 10/25/2019 @ 6:29 amThe dems prespin like with lois lerner, fast and furious benghazi.
narciso (d1f714) — 10/25/2019 @ 6:44 am“Witch hunt”
Even John Bolton called it a “drug deal”. (I haven’t heard him deny it.)
NYT: “I am not part of whatever drug deal Sondland and Mulvaney are cooking up,” Mr. Bolton, a Yale-trained lawyer, told Ms. Hill
I guess Bolton is now part of the “Witch Hunt” and “Deep State”. Add him to that long list.
noel (f22371) — 10/25/2019 @ 7:05 amThing is, “collusion” is not a sine qua non:
nk (dbc370) — 10/25/2019 @ 7:30 amThe Black Plague did not collude with Russia (its point of origin in Europe).
Syphilis did not collude with Spain.
AIDS did not collude with Haiti.
Nickelback did not collude with Canada.
Likewise, the criminal traitor Trump does not need to have colluded with anyone to be a loathsome infection on America’s nether regions!
Lance the boil! Drain the pus! Wash away the germ!
112. Trump isn’t the problem. He’s a symptom of a much deeper problem that virtually all Americans are either ignorant or in denial of.
Gryph (08c844) — 10/25/2019 @ 7:32 amAmericans are a good and decent people, Gryph. We don’t deserve any of those clowns in DC. Not Trump, not the Democrats, not the putative Republicans. They are the ones who are sowing division, discord, and dissension. And for what? Trump because he’s a sicko, the rest of them to keep their snouts in the public trough.
nk (dbc370) — 10/25/2019 @ 8:07 am114. Oh, don’t we? We voted them all in. We enabled (even if reluctantly) every last government program to come down the pike in the last 150 years. My point in bringing this up is that there seems to be a search for someone “better than Trump.” That anyone better than Trump would run for elected office is a delusion. The system is broken. And “We the People” broke it.
Gryph (08c844) — 10/25/2019 @ 8:11 amGryph, exactly. Also in regards to what a dumb, dumb, dummy Trump is. Just like Reagan. Anyone any smarter wouldn’t be dumb enough to take the job, let alone pursue policies that everyone knows are dumb. Supply-side economics. Sheesh. Gimme a break. Now where did I put my iPhone?
PTw (894877) — 10/25/2019 @ 8:26 am116. Have you ever heard me say that I believed in Ronald Reagan’s fundamental decency? I’ll say it again: Ronald W. Reagan was the last fundamentally decent person to occupy the presidency.
Gryph (08c844) — 10/25/2019 @ 8:44 am@114. Tempting to agree, but there were much better candidates than Trump. Any of the GOP nominees would have been better. Frankly Hillary would have been better but nobody wants to admit that.
JRH (52aed3) — 10/25/2019 @ 8:50 am118. That depends on what you mean by “better.” Politicians aren’t going to fix what politicians broke. Period. Full-stop. Politics holds as much meaning in my life as basketball and football do — which is to say, none. This powderkeg we’re sitting on won’t be defused before it explodes.
Gryph (08c844) — 10/25/2019 @ 8:51 amSorry meant to direct that to 115. I agree wholeheartedly w/ 114.
JRH (52aed3) — 10/25/2019 @ 8:52 amI’m sorry. Did I say that Trump was a paragon of morality? Didn’t say they were exactly alike in all ways. Just that they were both dumb. Dumb like eating fatty meats is dumb. Dumb like questioning AGW is dumb…or is it AGCC now?…Dumb like phonics is dumb. Dumb like…well, supply-side economics is dumb. Dumb. Just plain dumb.
Now smart people, they can be of high moral character. They can be. It’s true. There are statistics and stuff to prove it. There’s even empirical evidence.
PTw (894877) — 10/25/2019 @ 8:57 am@118. I dunno. we got through JFK, RFK, MLK assasinations, Watts riots, Vietnam. I don’t think it’s going to explode. I think some would like it to, and maybe it would be easier to blow up the whole thing and start over. I think eventually some flawed-but-not-utterly-corrupt person is going to get in the WH and the pendulum will start swinging the way it always did, but (hopefully) not as wildly. We have to figure out how to be nicer to each other and I think most of us want to be.
JRH (52aed3) — 10/25/2019 @ 9:00 amIt is fascinating how many Trump fans try to explain that he was somehow like Reagan in any respect whatsoever. They think they can even say that to insult Trump is to insult Reagan. If I say Trump was a coward or immoral or a weak leader who failed to make any lasting change… I must think the same of Reagan, and therefore be a total RINO or something.
You don’t hear these people ever say that they admire Trump, or that he has accomplished a specific legislative change, or that he is a courageous leader, or someone they want to be like. They always have to make an underhanded argument that drags others down instead of elevating Trump.
The very fact they resort to this so much shows they understand who Trump is.
Dustin (7b1047) — 10/25/2019 @ 9:01 amReagan’s Presidency is to Trump’s *administration* what True Grit is to Pink Flamingos.
nk (dbc370) — 10/25/2019 @ 9:13 am@103
I think people are capable of recognizing that. If the evidence and testimony were favorable to impeachment open-door proceedings would benefit the D’s and they could also point to any grandstanding by the R’s. I also think people are capable of seeing the problem with closed-door proceedings and it undermines the D position.
There were some closed-door hearings and the reasons seemed valid. Having closed-door hearings that involve national security issues, for example, is something people understand. It looks like the entire investigation by Schiff’s committee is closed simply because R’s will engage in politics.
Frosty, Fp (f27e97) — 10/25/2019 @ 9:14 amThe plan to storm the hearing room was discussed the night before with President Trump, although I am sure they didn’t go into details about the possibility of carrying devices into a secure room.
Sammy Finkelman (ccce11) — 10/25/2019 @ 10:41 amSchiff’s committee is not on;y violatin precedent, it’s violating House rules in not releasing letters they sent to poyential witnesses like Mike Pompeo. They are comparing this to agrand jury, but with agrand jury, it’s a big thing if they even mention that there is an investigation going on. This is more like a preliminary hearing. During the Senate watergate hearings they did have staff interview witnesses in advance, while otheer witnesses were testifying in public, but they didn’t say anything about what they said or maybe even didn’t dscuss who was beng interviewed when.
All Republicans are not completely cut off – members of the committee can ask questions and their staff too I think, but they’re not allowed to talk about it, and Schiff has even strengthened privacy protections, like making only one transcript and allowing committee members to view it on;y under the watchful of eyes of Democratic staffers (to make sure they’re not making notes?) and warned members not to discuss anything outside the committee.
Except that one Republican said Ambassador Bill Taylor’s story (he released his opening statement) was destroyed (or some part of it I guess) and that much I guess they can say.
Sammy Finkelman (ccce11) — 10/25/2019 @ 10:51 am125. It;s closed because they want to say thins that are not in exact accordance with the truth, and things are leaked to bias people’s judgement.
Sammy Finkelman (ccce11) — 10/25/2019 @ 10:52 am118. JRH (52aed3) — 10/25/2019 @ 8:50 am
Not true.
Trump is more honest and a much less skillful (or prepared) liar, nor is he trying to entrench the Republican Party in power.
Sammy Finkelman (ccce11) — 10/25/2019 @ 10:55 amProbably so, but protesting is what the minority does and deciding on the process is what the majority does. The GOP will decide in the Senate but this is what happens because the Republicans lost control of the House.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/25/2019 @ 11:14 am111. noel (f22371) — 10/25/2019 @ 7:05 am
Sammy Finkelman (ccce11) — 10/25/2019 @ 11:43 amThis gets my vote for dumbest idea of the year (original article is pay-walled):
Pray to god this guy never gets on Fox & Friends…
Dave (1bb933) — 10/25/2019 @ 12:05 pmThe Democrats didn’t change any rules, they’re operating under the rules passed by the house in 2015, when John Boehner was speaker.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/25/2019 @ 12:10 pm@124. No. The Reagan Adminstration is to the Trump Administration what ‘Dynasty’ was to ‘Dallas.’
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/25/2019 @ 12:17 pmAnother great day for civilization!
FY2019 has ended, and our Dear Leader has succeeded in increasing the budget deficit by $268B, compared to the year before.
The FY2019 deficit of $984 billion is the largest, as a share of the economy, since 2012.
And best of all, it’s projected to grow even larger next year!
As a reminder, the Dear Leader promised to eliminate, not just the budget deficit, but the entire national debt.
#MAGA
Dave (1bb933) — 10/25/2019 @ 12:25 pmYou can make a case that “Closed Door sessions” results in less grandstanding and better questions BUT that doesn’t mean you can’t release the Transcript the day AFTER the Committee concludes the questioning. And of course, did Adam Schiffless ever disagree to the R’s having a “closed door meetings”? I think he did. At that time it “America has a right to know”.
Look, the whole problem from the beginning of Trump-Russia and now TRump-Ukraine, is that we the American people were told dribs and drabs and all the meetings were held behind closed doors. Or witnesses, like Comey, would refuse to answer questions unless it was behind closed doors. Or stuff would be redacted, because it was “so sensitive”. And later found out that was all BS. It was just the FBI, DOJ, who ever trying to CYA. There was almost nothing that was truly classified and would hurt national security.
rcocean (1a839e) — 10/25/2019 @ 12:27 pm@134, re-@124. Or maybe rather than ‘Dynasty,’ ‘Falcon Crest’ instead– Wyman did that, likely drawing on life experience. 😉
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/25/2019 @ 12:30 pmAll this information, all the meetings and questioning should be out in the Open. Let the American people judge. Lets hear the cross-examination. BTW, “The Dispatch” actually had something interesting about the R Senators and their resolution about the House Trump-impeachment. Sen Cotton and said the resolution was a bad idea, it would hurt the signer in close Blue state elections, and those who didn’t sign would be trouble with the base LOL! In other words, to heck with Trump, lets look after our Senate buddies, even the ones who hate Trump.
Just confirms that if it gets to the Senate, we’ll have 5-10 R Senators grandstanding and siding with the D’s to string it all out and make a big show. It’ll be like Kavanaugh, only worse. Look for Susan Collins to make a big speech, about how she’s for removing Trump: “Here I stand, I can do no other (Vote Collins Nov 2020)”
rcocean (1a839e) — 10/25/2019 @ 12:37 pmTrump says “never trumpers” are human scum. Repeats it in his press conference. Given their actions, you can’t disagree. It applies to many of them in DC, who are stabbing him in the back.
rcocean (1a839e) — 10/25/2019 @ 12:39 pmActually, since Trump likes Mike rather than LeBron, follow MJ’s example in the donut hole between the 2 separate 3-peats of the 1990s – resign post-haste, but run in the election next year as “challenger” rather than incumbent.
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 10/25/2019 @ 12:39 pmI still want Cruz to be vote #67 one can dream.
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 10/25/2019 @ 12:40 pmnever trumpers will be less irrelevant in the 2020 election than the Lyndon Larouche flock.
mg (8cbc69) — 10/25/2019 @ 1:26 pmRC, does that disqualify Tom Cotton’s run as the palatable perfectionist conservative alternative?
urbanleftbehind (5eecdb) — 10/25/2019 @ 1:28 pmRC, I’m OK with having testimony behind closed doors so long as the evidence is made public at some point. Don’t need 24 hr turnaround.
Time123 (cd2ff4) — 10/25/2019 @ 1:55 pmEven at the expense of allowing the majority to craft their preferred narrative? Because that’s what is happening here….it’s bare-knuckles raw politics here.
whembly (fd57f6) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:14 pm144. It’s better than nothing but a massive data dump on say the Friday afetr Thanksgiving will result in many people not analyzin it carefully.
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:24 pmhttps://www.nationalreview.com/2019/10/missing-server-conspiracy-theories-are-a-convenient-smokescreen
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:25 pmJonah Goldberg:
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:28 pmAn attempt to get the backstory.
This is not boring, it is just compliccated and everybody gets at least something wrong.
https://www.economist.com/briefing/2019/10/12/from-paul-manafort-to-donald-trumps-fateful-phonecall
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:30 pmPicked up from the news this week:
While Ukraine did not know aid was being withheld on July 25, some officials there did know by early Augist. They were told to talk to Mulvaney. (I think therre was still no quid oro quo for the aid/ Sondland tried a quid ro quop for meeting between Zelensky and Trump
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:33 pm121. Quit putting words in my mouth, and I won’t put any in yours. Douchebag.
Gryph (08c844) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:34 pm”All the more reason to avoid committing high crimes and misdemeanors.”
“Don’t like cattle-prods up the ying-yang? Next time don’t roll that stop sign.”
Besides, “high crimes and misdemeanors” is a euphemism for “we really don’t like what you are doing.”
Kevin M (19357e) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:39 pmSays 3rd shift farmer.
narciso was here long before you showed up, and he’ll be here long after you are gone.
Kevin M (19357e) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:41 pm@148: Not all nutty conspiracy theories are created equal. One launches a two year SC probe. The other launches an impeachment railroad.
Munroe (53beca) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:45 pmYes, it’s the catchall that the founders, you know, those guys who wrote that document, put in there in case of general scumbagery. It’s not a foreign language, it’s meaning was, and is, well known.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:45 pmTrump’s said the one on national TeeVee, as well as the second, and released the “transcript”. He’s getting impeached due to his actions, whether he gets convicted is another matter, Bolton will be tossing in his own grenade, will Guiliani throw himself on it, or does it take out the whole mess? Will Senate Republicans see him as an anchor around their necks and just dump him because even beige-man is a vast improvement, we’ll see in a month or two.
Impeachment is a political action, as it was always intended to be.
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:50 pmReagan’s Presidency is to Trump’s *administration* what True Grit is to Pink Flamingos.
You denigrate Pink Flamingos.
How about Godfather II to Gigli?
Kevin M (19357e) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:56 pmYes, it’s the catchall that the founders, you know, those guys who wrote that document, put in there in case of general scumbagery.
Considering that they were VERY worried about the possibility of a scoundrel like themselves attaining the office, they wanted a way to get rid of him short of assassination (and yes, they DID put it that way). Their deliberations are widely available to read.
Kevin M (19357e) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:58 pm”Impeachment is a political action, as it was always intended to be.”
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:50 pm
So is a SC probe, apparently. But, obstruction of partisan politics sounds much more benign than obstruction of justice, doesn’t it?
But, you’ve developed muscle memory moving those goalposts. It’s so easy now.
Munroe (53beca) — 10/25/2019 @ 2:58 pmHow is the former, not the definition of the latter?
Colonel Klink (Ret) (6e7a1c) — 10/25/2019 @ 3:20 pmIndeed, and that is certainly an important point but that is different than my point. My point is that the Democrats had a choice regarding how to proceed because they are in the majority. Here, they choose to follow the rules established by the Republicans. The Democrats did not have to do that. They could have chosen different rules … because they are the majority.
If the Republicans don’t like that result — and clearly they liked this process a lot when they were in control, because these are their rules — then the solution is to win enough seats to once again be in the majority.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/25/2019 @ 3:52 pmI’m reading that the Rules that Boehner updated to just allow the Chairperson him/herself to issue subpoenas w/o a committee vote.
So… I would think that the Rules during Nixon and reaffirmed by Gingrich for Clinton are still in effect. Which, by the rules, required a full House vote to initiate impeachment inquiry.
Did Democrats change that rule?
whembly (c30c83) — 10/25/2019 @ 4:09 pmAs I understand the debate, the primary issue is who in the House has the authority to subpoena and depose (question) witnesses. This is a matter of House rules, and it is not limited to impeachment proceedings. If a committee chairman has the power to subpoena and depose witnesses, he can do so in closed sessions and thus effectively in secret. Committees/chairmen that do not have that power are dependent on the House voting for a specific action that enables an investigation.
In earlier times, including earlier impeachment efforts, the power to subpoena and depose witnesses was more limited. Those powers have been expanded, including in 2015:
I apologize for the lengthy excerpt but I don’t know how to edit it and make the point. Also, the 113th Congress was 2013-2015.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/25/2019 @ 4:30 pmAH… very good point.
Just goes to show that the GOP is furiously spinning this.
Can we sidebar here?
Can we agree that the minority party will always complain and make ridiculous soapboxes about how the majority is running roughshed over them? Whenever the Majority exert “political muscles” simply because their the ones in power… when the opposite party regains power, they cannot wait to using those same muscles for their ends.
Maybe I’m just jaded.
Just win the damn election next time….eh?
whembly (c30c83) — 10/25/2019 @ 4:49 pm@162, @163 There aren’t new or special rules because this isn’t a new or special process. An impeachment inquiry isn’t an impeachment. It’s regular oversight with the intent to find something impeachable. That’s why they don’t need a full vote. An impeachment would require a full vote. Since D’s won the house largely on the promise to investigate Trump they are doing what they were elected to do.
Impeachment inquiry is just the subtitle of the show this season.
Frosty, Fp (cac650) — 10/25/2019 @ 5:53 pmI agree, whembly, as I said in 130.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/25/2019 @ 6:47 pmOk, frosty. Fine.
DRJ (15874d) — 10/25/2019 @ 6:49 pm