49 Killed While Attending Prayers At New Zealand Mosques
[guest post by Dana]
Some horrible news out of New Zealand:
At least 49 people were killed in mass shootings at two mosques full of worshippers attending Friday prayers in an attack broadcast in horrifying, live video by an immigrant-hating white nationalist wielding at least two rifles.
One man was arrested and charged with murder, and two other armed suspects were taken into custody while police tried to determine what role they played.
“It is clear that this can now only be described as a terrorist attack,” Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said, noting that many of the victims could be migrants or refugees.
She pronounced it “one of New Zealand’s darkest days.”
The attack shocked people across the nation of 5 million people, a country that has relatively loose gun laws but is so peaceful even police officers rarely carry firearms.
The gunman behind at least one of the mosque shootings left a 74-page manifesto that he posted on social media… identifying himself as a 28-year-old Australian and white nationalist who was out to avenge attacks in Europe perpetrated by Muslims.
Using what may have been a helmet camera, he livestreamed to the world in graphic detail his assault on worshippers at Christchurch’s Al Noor Mosque, where at least 41 people were killed. An attack on a second mosque in the city not long after killed several more.
Police did not identify those taken into custody and gave no details except to say that none of them had been on any watch list. They did not immediately say whether the same person was responsible for both shootings.
I’m not the least bit interested in talking about any self-promoting, manipulative and attention-seeking politicians who shamelessly politicized the tragedy right out the gate. Their unseemly behavior speaks for itself. While so many families are in shock and trying to grapple with their loss, my simple prayers go out to them. Because, as it is whenever a terrorist attack takes place, the pain that those left behind must be going through is just unimaginable.
(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)
–Dana
Terrible.
Dana (023079) — 3/15/2019 @ 10:15 amWhat a horrible, senseless atrocity. May the families affected find comfort in their faith and may those responsible beheld to account.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/15/2019 @ 11:02 amHate is never an answer.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/15/2019 @ 11:03 amBeware the Ides of March… 🙁
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20vdRHOxSJ0
Why should anybody today- particularly the sensation driven, now suddenly squeamish, self-censoring media – both mainstream and social- be shocked or sickened by this… does the New Zealand ‘live stream’ have a Lynyrd Skynyrd track layed down on it, too?
This is the culture we’ve created.
“… War, murder, death are all the same to you as bottles of beer…” – Max Schumacher [William Holden] ‘Network’ 1976
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/15/2019 @ 11:22 am@4. Postscript: BTW, the New Zealand boxoffice numbers for ‘Kingsman’:
$2,098,400
– source, https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Kingsman-The-Secret-Service/New-Zealand#tab=summary
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/15/2019 @ 11:34 amI think there’s almost no question: Russia’s (that is Vladimir Putin’s) hands are involved in this thing. All of these murders were only to troll people.
The gunman’s manifesto includes too much familiarity with too many things. Almost all of his arguments fit into Russian propaganda, except that he says he wants to divide people in the United States, which is what the people explaining what Putin is doing say. It’s almost like a wilderness of mirrors, but Russian disinformation operations are like this.
So I would say that Putin’s motives in arranging for this troll attack are not simply to divide people. It’s more complicated. It’s 3-dimensional chess – probably to the point that it actually doesn’t make any sense.
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 3/15/2019 @ 11:54 amOk, i’ll beat Pops to the punch… and Putin snarled…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/15/2019 @ 12:02 pmAussie version of Helter Skelter.
harkin (e15868) — 3/15/2019 @ 12:59 pmdon’t they have strict gun control laws in new zealand?
lany (4a2d38) — 3/15/2019 @ 1:08 pm@9. ‘What We Know About The Gun Used In The Mosque Massacre In New Zealand, Where Gun Laws Are Some Of The Most Lax In The Developed World’
-source, https://www.businessinsider.com/new-zealand-mosque-shooting-weapon-used-gun-control-laws-2019-3
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/15/2019 @ 1:20 pmRush Limbaugh said the guns laws in New Zealand were tough. You need approval, especially for pistols.
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 3/15/2019 @ 1:35 pmY’all remember this site’s responses to the Pulse Nightclub shooting? I do.
Leviticus (efada1) — 3/15/2019 @ 1:35 pmI’m with the Colonel. It’s a horrific tragedy, and I do not trust the news trying to adjust facts to fit political agendas.
I’m much more concerned with the families of those who were lost. And I don’t think people here disagree.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 3/15/2019 @ 1:38 pmI think I can trust this organization to raise money to help folks in New Zealand who are dealing with this tragedy:
https://jewishpgh.org/
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 3/15/2019 @ 1:41 pmMuslim shooter = Crisis, Travel Ban
White Anti-Muslim shooter = ?
Leviticus (efada1) — 3/15/2019 @ 1:42 pmI miss Steve57, Leviticus.
mg (8cbc69) — 3/15/2019 @ 2:05 pmFirst let me state my prayers are with the families of the victims. My next words may sound strange but this tragedy has made me think about: a Gun Free Zone emboldens a would be shooter, but does the layout of apt worship- many with back turned to main entryways, focused on one clerical figure, need to be reevaluated and changed because it also facilitates a shooter? Zig zag rear facing seating sections, more audio then visual components of services; even with several good persons with guns, there is lost reaction time from having to turn to face the threat.
urbanleftbehind (3439dc) — 3/15/2019 @ 2:07 pmThere was one good person who went home to get a gun.
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 3/15/2019 @ 2:12 pmMuslim shooter = Crisis, Travel Ban
White Anti-Muslim shooter = ?
New Zealand should seriously consider a ban on white Anti-Muslim shooters. It already has bans on overweight people and foreign home buyers.
nk (dbc370) — 3/15/2019 @ 2:21 pm“Muslim shooter = Crisis, Travel Ban
White Anti-Muslim shooter = ?”
When people who criticize Islam start approaching the same ratios as Muslims for committing terror acts, I might listen.
“During this time period, there were 99 Islamic attacks in 20 countries, in which 701 people were killed and 697 injured.“
That’s the last 30 days.
“During this time period, there were 1976 Islamic attacks in 56 countries, in which 11769 people were killed and 11483 injured.“
That’s for 2018.
https://thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/attacks.aspx?Yr=Last30
Feel free to link a list of recent Christian terror acts.
harkin (e15868) — 3/15/2019 @ 2:24 pm“Feel free to link a list of recent Christian terror acts.”
harkin (e15868) — 3/15/2019 @ 2:24 pm
There was that Holmes guy of the Colorado Tea Party (h/t Brian Ross).
Munroe (84aad1) — 3/15/2019 @ 2:28 pmY’all remember this site’s responses to the Pulse Nightclub shooting? I do.
I did not, but I went to your link and read mine. Thank you. I’ll repeat one, appropriately rephrased for these circumstances:
nk (dbc370) — 3/15/2019 @ 2:32 pmAin’t she the cutest niece?
Narciso (72d34b) — 3/15/2019 @ 2:35 pmLike a pet tarantula.
nk (dbc370) — 3/15/2019 @ 2:37 pmI went back and read the post (which I wrote). I’d be interested in what you found/find objectionable in what I said (at either post). The only major difference (I can see) with what I wrote then and now is that I did not name the suspect in this attack. That is because I like Ben Shapiro’s new policy at his site where they no longer name suspected terrorist in order to avoid giving them their sought after publicity.
Also, yesterday’s terrorist attack took place on foreign soil, and the terrorist was not an American. The massacre at The Pulse nightclub took place on American soil, and the shooter was also an American.
I’m not sure what you’re driving at, but clearly something. Can you be explicit?
Dana (023079) — 3/15/2019 @ 3:03 pm@Dana and thread…
I know Trump flames many aspects of bigotry (fairly or unfairly)…
What would you say to Trump critics who’s laying the blame for this shooting?
whembly (f68468) — 3/15/2019 @ 3:30 pmSocial media is the accelerant that allows this kind of horrendous thing to happen.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/15/2019 @ 3:49 pm@11. And if Foghorn broadcasts to go jump off a bridge– be sure you wear a parachute.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/15/2019 @ 3:53 pmFacebook didn’t even know the murderer was posting and streaming this evil schiff.
Perhaps they would’ve reacted quicker if he’d written “learn to code”…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/15/2019 @ 3:53 pmThoughts & prayers… thoughts & prayers…
Lock ‘n’ load: we know the drill.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/15/2019 @ 3:58 pmRush Limbaugh said the guns laws in New Zealand were tough. You need approval, especially for pistols.
New Zealand is a colonialist nation with a large native population which eats people. As in cooks them and eats them. Long pig, yum, yum! It is important that the colonialists have guns but they have to be the right kind of colonialists.
nk (dbc370) — 3/15/2019 @ 4:05 pmIf Putin had a son
mg (8cbc69) — 3/15/2019 @ 4:05 pm… they’d call him Shorty…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/15/2019 @ 4:12 pmThis is clever and sez it all… https://youtu.be/IABRgZH12YA
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/15/2019 @ 4:29 pmNot your post, Dana. The comments on that thread vs. the comments here. I should’ve been more explicit.
Leviticus (348c28) — 3/15/2019 @ 5:02 pmFrom the New Zealand lunatic’s manifesto:
nk (dbc370) — 3/15/2019 @ 5:06 pmSo he has only noble purposes at heart. Burn him at the stake, he’s a witch.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/15/2019 @ 5:12 pmIn my book, it’s always unfair/wrong to fan the flame of bigotry, whembly. And that includes it being wrong for President Trump to do so. Always. But in this case, the shooter was not an American, nor did the terror attack take place on American soil, so I don’t see how Trump could be reasonably blamed. Also, I’m a big believer in individual responsibility. Clearly the vile person who committed this atrocity made his own decisions. And from reading portions of his manifesto (which the media cautions has not been verified), the suspect was clear-minded enough to thoroughly plan this attack well in advance, including selecting his targets, location, weapons, etc.
Dana (023079) — 3/15/2019 @ 5:20 pmI have no issues with what I said on the Pulse thread. Stated facts, nothing more.
This seems to be a barbaric attack trying to create a response. And the mentality of filming yourself doing it is deeply disturbing.
NJRob (20ab76) — 3/15/2019 @ 5:32 pmAlso, today Chelsea Clinton is being blamed. This is how utterly insane the world has become.
Dana (023079) — 3/15/2019 @ 5:32 pmThe ‘I don’t see how Trump could be reasonably blamed’…
Still, the supposed “manifesto” credits Trump as a “…symbol of renewed white identity and common purpose…”
Certainly not directly blamed; but if you’re leading a crowd shouting up to a fella out on a 35th floor ledge of Trump Tower to ‘Jump! Jump!’ – you’re certainly not helping– and part of a problem.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/15/2019 @ 5:33 pm“Facts”
Leviticus (348c28) — 3/15/2019 @ 5:35 pmLike “both Islam and communism seek to create hell on earth”?
Leviticus (348c28) — 3/15/2019 @ 5:36 pm“Never let a crisis go to waste.”
nk (dbc370) — 3/15/2019 @ 5:38 pm@44. Indeed; saved Tucka’s bacon; knocked his problems down to D-block, page 16, stale-news-status.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/15/2019 @ 5:41 pmNot Robert Francis “Beto” O’Rourke, DCSCA? https://www.foxnews.com/politics/beto-orourke-wrote-murder-fantasy-children-was-part-of-famed-hacking-group-report
nk (dbc370) — 3/15/2019 @ 5:46 pmIt’s rather clear when you attack a house of worship, it’s a terrorist act, like the Coptic churches in egypt.
Narciso (93ca36) — 3/15/2019 @ 5:49 pm“Fredo” O’Rourke is a uni-party dreamboat.
mg (8cbc69) — 3/15/2019 @ 5:56 pm40 – re Chelsea Clinton
The elite, white Judeo-Christian liberal politicians and celebritiy/media types who have been jumping on the bandwagon to be ultra-woke for their pet groups/radicals and accusatory to those they disagree with are just starting to realize their errors.
They thought this reality-free emotion-fueled police work would be their ticket to fame and glory and most-of-all power to take revenge on the rubes……but now are just starting to realize the target area aka enemies list is expanding in a direction they hadn’t anticipated.
Would have served them well to study, process and consider history instead of merely seeking to re-write it.
It’s accelerating too – welcome to the party folks!
harkin (e15868) — 3/15/2019 @ 5:59 pmNk, Beto’s more than halfway toward being like one of the Jeff Flake kids.
urbanleftbehind (b9194f) — 3/15/2019 @ 6:00 pm@46. To get his attention, just jiggle ‘n’ jingle your keys.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/15/2019 @ 6:08 pm45… just another leftwing fever-dream down the tubes…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/15/2019 @ 6:14 pm@52. He’s outta news cablers and never done the Hallmark Channel; they do have an opening…
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/15/2019 @ 6:21 pm39) clearly a psychopath,
Narciso (93ca36) — 3/15/2019 @ 6:21 pmWidespread nihilism and BarcaLounger Generals are a stain on humanity.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/15/2019 @ 6:22 pmWhen a large segment of the population has marginalized personal accountability and responsibility, everyone gets blamed for the heinous actions of society’s monsters.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/15/2019 @ 6:29 pm“People who have the discipline to make decisions crave freedom.
People who don’t want to face the consequences of their decisions despise it.”
h/t sooper mex
harkin (e15868) — 3/15/2019 @ 6:35 pmnk (dbc370) — 3/15/2019 @ 5:06 pm
Yet almost all the ideological and political blather in that manifesto has been expressed multiple times in the Breitbartsphere. Not a few of its claims have been stated at one time or another even here in the comments threads by non-trolls. The only one I don’t remember being touted here is “white genocide”. But almost all the rest is standard discourse among significant portions of the Dextrosphere.
The only real difference is that no one here seems psychologically warped enough to go out and kill people.
Kishnevi (c3ac61) — 3/15/2019 @ 6:55 pmKish, the white genocide dude left here a year ago.
And I thought sooper mex disappeared after being “Warren’d”
urbanleftbehind (b9194f) — 3/15/2019 @ 6:59 pmYes that was a foolish fellow, regardless defending western civilization in anything but general terms is in very bad odor.
Narciso (93ca36) — 3/15/2019 @ 7:03 pmDenver what’s his name, now this roided knave probably couldn’t make a logical argument if he was forced into it with a chokehold.
Narciso (93ca36) — 3/15/2019 @ 7:06 pmSadly she’s done for:
https://babalublog.com/2019/03/15/former-argentine-president-visits-ailing-daughter-in-cuba/
Narciso (93ca36) — 3/15/2019 @ 7:10 pmKish, the white genocide dude left here a year ago.
Kishnevi (c3ac61) — 3/15/2019 @ 7:12 pmThat’s the one claim I don’t remember any serious commenter here ever making.
If I am thinking of the one you are thinking of, I counted him as one of the trolls.
Breitbart? Po’ ole me, it reminded me of Baader-Meinhof. One of the commenters at Uncle’s was reminded of Charles Manson.
nk (dbc370) — 3/15/2019 @ 7:13 pmI’m thinking the sandwich mogul who may or may not have engaged in stolen valor.
urbanleftbehind (b9194f) — 3/15/2019 @ 7:16 pmKirschner was overrated in the looks department, at best she was a “Cincinnati Bengal”.
urbanleftbehind (b9194f) — 3/15/2019 @ 7:17 pmUbl, I think it was Christoph in one of his guises. I certainly don’t remember Hoagie saying that, whatever the facts behind his multiracial family may have been.
nk, go back, read the quote you posted at comment 36, and then tell me whoever wrote it was taking Kurt Schlichter’s (sp?) talk about civil war too seriously.
Kishnevi (c3ac61) — 3/15/2019 @ 7:24 pmHe took a turn after his south African cousins were set upon and killed. Got worse and worse but sounding more like fa far (worse than alt-) right script than reality to the point nk called him on his bulkrappe in re where and with what units he served with in Vietnam.
urbanleftbehind (b9194f) — 3/15/2019 @ 7:28 pmI decline, Kishnevi. I am not going to analyze that loony’s ideas about America or how the world works. And not the New Zealand lunatic’s, either.
nk (dbc370) — 3/15/2019 @ 7:36 pmNow he picked New Zealand because it hasn’t gone down the rabbit hole of gun confiscation, yet, however you think if our favorite niece had the power, she would at least attempt it, thatd the point behind trying to marginalize the NRA most recently with the times attacking nra tv.
Narciso (93ca36) — 3/15/2019 @ 7:42 pmHere’s Rod Dreher’s take on the lunatic’s manifesto…
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/radicalization-degeneration-brenton-tarrant-white-supremacist/
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/15/2019 @ 8:01 pmI read again about McCain and his handling of the Dossier. Very sad day for America.
mg (8cbc69) — 3/15/2019 @ 8:14 pmSeeing the contortions of logic necessary for those who seek to equate very valid criticism of anti-semitism/Islam/Sharia with gunning down people at prayer is a wonder to behold.
harkin (e15868) — 3/15/2019 @ 8:21 pmIt’s the invalid criticism of Islam that is the problem, especially when it is touted as valid criticism. But the Christchurch killer was not really concerned with Islam or sharia. His problem with Moslems is not what they are, but what they are not. He can not forgive them for the crime of not being white.
Kishnevi (c3ac61) — 3/15/2019 @ 8:28 pmOh I think he ended up there but Charlie Hebdo Westminster berlin might have been wayatations
Narciso (93ca36) — 3/15/2019 @ 8:44 pmLeviticus,
if you’re going to quote me, please do so in its entirety. Thank you.
And yes. Those are facts. Communism and islam have both proven it time and time again.
NJRob (4d595c) — 3/15/2019 @ 9:53 pm“His problem with Moslems is not what they are, but what they are not. He can not forgive them for the crime of not being white.”
Kishnevi (c3ac61) — 3/15/2019 @ 8:28 pm
I guess then it was just happenstance that he didn’t come upon a Buddhist temple or Hindu shrine first, or some other non-white place of worship.
Munroe (c87974) — 3/15/2019 @ 10:19 pmI’m invoking the 49 hour rule here, other than offer prayers for the dead, the wounded and their families.
Kevin M (21ca15) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:58 amhttps://www.thetablet.co.uk/news/8380/double-the-number-of-christians-killed-worldwide-last-year
mg (8cbc69) — 3/16/2019 @ 1:07 amMunroe, perhaps he would have, but if he needed surgery to survive the police shootout, probably not a good bet.
urbanleftbehind (b9194f) — 3/16/2019 @ 6:23 am“I guess then it was just happenstance that he didn’t come upon a Buddhist temple or Hindu shrine first, or some other non-white place of worship.”
You’re using logic and that’s not fair when used against dhimmitude.
harkin (09d352) — 3/16/2019 @ 6:40 amI guess pulse is a comparable event except they paid all these games hiding the nature of the anti gay animus, to this day. Doing the gay lover squirrel, the aggrieved widow every conceivable trick to obscure this event. To relate it to a much larger network.
Narciso (a12b20) — 3/16/2019 @ 7:08 amGays and Latinos all of a sudden didnt matter, to this day they dont even bother to match the ammo to the victims, so no one is responsible.
Narciso (a12b20) — 3/16/2019 @ 7:11 amThis doesn’t make a whole lot of semse:
Narciso (a12b20) — 3/16/2019 @ 7:37 amhttps://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/alleged-christchurch-gunman-identified-as-former-grafton-local-20190315-p514nm.html
https://www.jpost.com/American-Politics/Cardoza-Moore-hand-delivers-petitions-to-Washington-requesting-Ilhan-Omars-removal-583626
mg (8cbc69) — 3/16/2019 @ 8:00 amcrickets from the “loonatics” in Minnigoshoo.
It will though:
Narciso (a12b20) — 3/16/2019 @ 8:08 amhttps://www.city-journal.org/new-zealand-massacre
Christians and Jews are headed for the endangered list.
mg (8cbc69) — 3/16/2019 @ 8:15 amRight, narciso, but in addition to caring a little less about people from other locales, we in the lower 48 have enjoyed a combination of:
A lack of a mass kill incident since the Somali at OSUin late 2016.
Easily foiled plots b/c of inept actors and expertise firmly entrenched in law enforcement (e.g. the FBI going from old Italians to middle aged Arabic speakers).
The courtship of some in the current administration of Saudi/Sunni interests.
And frankly a lot more teeth against Central Americans.
urbanleftbehind (b9194f) — 3/16/2019 @ 8:35 am“Today, a Norwegian friend noted that while two of the country’s leading dailies, VG and Dagbladet, ignored two major jihadist attacks in recent weeks—one that took 20 lives in a cathedral in the Philippines, and another that took 32 lives in a church in Nigeria—those same newspapers are packed with stories about the events in New Zealand.
This same pattern is being replicated in media around the world. Note, too, that while routine acts of mass jihadist butchery never seem to inspire Western officials or journalists to look squarely at the scriptures that inspire the perpetrators, the reprehensible events in Christchurch will doubtless—like those at Oslo and Utøya eight years ago—provide many people of influence with a rationale for seeking to stifle frank discussion of those scriptures, and of their sobering implications for the future of the West.“
https://www.city-journal.org/new-zealand-massacre
harkin (09d352) — 3/16/2019 @ 8:39 amMan bites dog is news.
Kevin M (21ca15) — 3/16/2019 @ 9:56 amFebruary 2016: Trump refused to condemn the KKK and disavow David Duke, then made up a phony excuse about a malfunctioning earpiece.
Paul Montagu (d49d0a) — 3/16/2019 @ 10:05 amAugust 2017: Trump declared that the neo-Nazis marching in Charlottesville were “very fine people”. On both sides!
October 2018: A white nationalist murdered a dozen Jews in Pittsburgh, triggered by the FakeNews that Jews were behind the migrant caravans.
February 2019: A white nationalist was arrested before he could assassinate Democratic politicians and media types.
Can’t we leave the politics behind on this one!?!? Seriously
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/16/2019 @ 10:29 amAn Australian nutjob goes to New Zealand and murders 49 innocent people at prayer. That f***ing Trump! Is there no limit to his evil?
nk (dbc370) — 3/16/2019 @ 10:38 amThe Australians will be taking orders from the ex-South Africans soon enough.
urbanleftbehind (b9194f) — 3/16/2019 @ 10:46 amOT… I just saw a New Mexico license plate with not one but two chili 🌶 peppers on it… may be a new one, don’t know. But it’s sweeeeeet!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/16/2019 @ 10:47 amNo. This was a political attack by a whackjob with a political agenda.
Paul Montagu (d49d0a) — 3/16/2019 @ 11:20 amThat’s a habanero alert.
Narciso (b52dcd) — 3/16/2019 @ 11:29 am96… so don’t become one!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/16/2019 @ 11:32 am@91. Poor management can be a killer:
October, 2018; New Boeing 737 Max 8 Lion Air crash: 189 dead. ‘Software’ fix in work.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/16/2019 @ 11:33 amMarch, 2019; New Boeing 737 Max 8 Ethopian Air crash: 157 dead. ‘Software’ fix in work.
Who said it?
I made only minor alterations to the quote from nk above.
Patterico (115b1f) — 3/16/2019 @ 11:33 amAre we going to leave the politics behind on all mass shootings, or only ones committed by right-wing nutjobs?
Patterico (115b1f) — 3/16/2019 @ 11:35 am“When tragedy or atrocity strikes — as it just did with the mosque shootings in New Zealand — thoughts and prayers are not just an expression of compassion. They are, more importantly and more wisely, an expression of humility and helplessness. They are a way of saying: “There is nothing we can do in the face of this wickedness but we stand in solidarity with the victims and ask God to comfort their families in their sorrow.”
Almost every other reaction is absurd. To suggest you have the solution to the eternal problem of evil in the form of addressing your pet peeve or of blaming and attacking your political opponents is disgraceful. It is to use the bodies of the slain for a soap box. It degrades you and insults the victims.”
—- Andrew Klavan
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/16/2019 @ 11:38 amIsnt that what has already happened in California, Newsom knows between the illegals the felons and sjws he doesn’t have to pay attention to anyone else.
Narciso (b52dcd) — 3/16/2019 @ 11:39 am@101. With an 87 page manifesto published online and ‘slaughterhouse jive’ painted on his weapons as he GoPro-ed along, got a chuckle out of that plea; thought the Colonel was trying to be funny- seriously.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/16/2019 @ 11:41 amSame for New York, or Colorado, add the stoners (now they want to put pot in the beer) as the other voting bloc
Narciso (b52dcd) — 3/16/2019 @ 11:42 amAm I missing how Cuomo can dismiss pro lifers or or gun owners with remarkable ease, now the thing about this jackalope is he wanted to accelerate
Narciso (b52dcd) — 3/16/2019 @ 11:55 am“Are we going to leave the politics behind on all mass shootings, or only ones committed by right-wing nutjobs?”
Patterico (115b1f) — 3/16/2019 @ 11:35 am
I would guess that nutjobs are impervious to political solutions.
Munroe (ec74bc) — 3/16/2019 @ 11:59 am“ “There is nothing we can do in the face of this wickedness but we stand in solidarity with the victims and ask God to comfort their families in their sorrow.”
Almost every other reaction is absurd. To suggest you have the solution to the eternal problem of evil in the form of addressing your pet peeve or of blaming and attacking your political opponents is disgraceful. It is to use the bodies of the slain for a soap box. It degrades you and insults the victims.”
Your shamelessness and hypocrisy know no bounds, Colonel.
Leviticus (348c28) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:00 pm#95:
That’s one of three available for no charge. By they way, for you guys in CA, a one-year car registration with a standard plate is $27. The only added fees are $5 or $10 convenience fees if you use one of the MANY local MVD Express shops run by local government. Sometimes you have to wait 15 minutes or so, though, so it isn’t perfect. It really was an eye-opener.
OT/OT: Did you know there is no gun registration here of any kind, although there is a bckground check now for all buyers. You can buy any federally legal gun, and you can keep it anywhere but concealed on your person without a license. They do advise that you tell a traffic cop that you have that gun in the glovebox ahead of time, but you technically don’t have to.
Kevin M (99889a) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:07 pmWith an 87 page manifesto published online and ‘slaughterhouse jive’ painted on his weapons as he GoPro-ed along, got a chuckle out of that plea; thought the Colonel was trying to be funny- seriously.
Did you know that the Unabomber Manifesto is still online at the Washington Post. Never mind that it is hate speech against scientists and engineers by a man who blew up some scientists and engineers.
Always good to remind the more easily shocked that some killers seem to be more worthy than others.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/unabomber/manifesto.text.htm
Kevin M (99889a) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:12 pmharkin (09d352) — 3/16/2019 @ 8:39 am
That’s called completely missing the real reason.
New Zealand is a full fledged member of the Anglosphere, rooted in EuroAmerican culture. The Philippines and Nigeria are not. So European media pays attention to New Zealand far more than it does to the Philippines or Nigeria.
If there is a tendency to focus on right wingers by Norwegian media in particular, perhaps it has to do with the fact that the biggest mass murder in recent Norwegian history was not by a jihadist…
Kishnevi (86bb64) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:14 pmfor the first time in a long time I am inclined to feel sympathetic to Chelsea Clinton
Kishnevi (86bb64) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:17 pmhttps://nypost.com/2019/03/16/nyu-students-confront-chelsea-clinton-say-she-stoked-hatred-behind-new-zealand-shootings/amp/
Leviticus, I love you, you know I do, but I have to consistently enforce a rule of no personal attacks. Help a brother out.
Patterico (115b1f) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:18 pmFair. Sorry. My apologies for the policy violation, I will restrain myself.
Leviticus (348c28) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:25 pmSo his goal was to stigmatize anyone opposed to the left and the Islamist agenda or did you miss that:
Narciso (b52dcd) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:26 pmKishnevi,
It also has to do with the pressure the Norwegian government is under regarding the non-assimilation of Islamic refugees, the problems it creates in society, and the governments wish to stick its fingers in its ears.
In the last 40 years, California has gone from a state where 67% were non-Hispanic whites (versus 20% Hispanic) to one where Hispanics now outnumber non-Hispanic whites and all other groups save Asians have diminished. These changes have profound impact on society. There are winners and losers and the losers — who were FORCED to rely on the federal government to enforce its laws (it didn’t) — are righteously pissed off.
I can see how the Norwegian opposition is making waves, and how the Norwegian government is using every tool of propaganda it has to convince people its opponents are all bad people.
Kevin M (99889a) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:28 pmSchiester, Sphincter, ????!!! Alex, who is Kurt Schlicter? (but I may revert to Buckeye blockheadedness and say Art Schlicter)
urbanleftbehind (b9194f) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:31 pmHe studied dunblane and port Arthur and arouana and Oslo, seeing how the populace a d the media would react.
Narciso (b52dcd) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:33 pm@110. See #4 & #5. Just another “bottle of beer…”
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:36 pm5) That was the lindsay era, the beto of the Hamptons, Mind you koch wasnt much better. But when they had a proactive police force in the 90s
Narciso (b52dcd) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:44 pmSorry that was the previous link, this avengers update with palmer elements did have some violent set pieces.
Narciso (b52dcd) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:51 pmIf we keep ratcheting up the hate and distrust, we shouldn’t be surprised by what often results.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:51 pmBUT… this mook is evil and he needs to be made an example of and put down hard without theatrics or drama.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:55 pmYes and the police in Kiwiland made the same mistakes we’ve seem from Columbine on,
Narciso (b52dcd) — 3/16/2019 @ 12:58 pmAnd I’m retired now… I’ve turned over a new leaf… or at least giving it as much effort as an old-timer can muster.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/16/2019 @ 1:00 pm“It also has to do with the pressure the Norwegian government is under regarding the non-assimilation of Islamic refugees, the problems it creates in society, and the governments wish to stick its fingers in its ears.“
Pretty much. They’re doing it here too and learning absolutely no lessons from the dumpster fire project that is Europe.
harkin (09d352) — 3/16/2019 @ 1:29 pmany muslim asked if they support sharia law if yes your out of here. if no give them lie detector test. simple start with ilmar oman and rashida tlaib.
lany (4a76e1) — 3/16/2019 @ 1:48 pmKeeping the pool clean, Col.?
mg (8cbc69) — 3/16/2019 @ 2:12 pmAs well as the cars?
Oh, yeah. And I have a substantial honey-do list, she’s wearing me out.
We have a tool closet inside our courtyard that I have to replace a door on. I sitting watching some college BB and I hear a scream from outside… wife comes in and tells me that she opened the door, moved a rake and heard a rustling. I went outside, opened the door started moving stuff around and sure enough, there was a rat inside. So I made sure the shovel was handy and started poking around and the rat starts running around frantically. I chase it up the wall where it finds a hiding spot of sorts. I train a flashlight up above my head, still can’t see it so I start poking around with a stick and – like that squirrel in Christmas Vacation – it jumps down falling right in front of my face… I give one of those Three Stooges “naugh…naugh” and it scurries out and under the front gate heading for the neighbor’s landscaping.
Rat bastard!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/16/2019 @ 2:32 pmDavid French as usual misses the point, this nazgul is evil in what he did, and how he knew it would be used by the enemies of his supposed allies, this is why his trips to Pakistan and turkey are of interest.
narciso (d1f714) — 3/16/2019 @ 2:41 pmPatterico, Dana, did you read about this fellow?
https://www.apnews.com/ccf69233a36446c2b6c9e92f3e6cf417?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=newsletter_axiosam&stream=top&fbclid=IwAR24kANP-PxhTIat9gWLSOAodaM6BsSeOKw0G0_FNH9EE_RPTBrvFQ3jG1k
Of course, the press has its own agenda, but I sure do like what I read.
Simon Jester (5721e2) — 3/16/2019 @ 3:06 pmThat’s a great story, Simon. Just imagine the courage it would take to do that!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/16/2019 @ 3:20 pmyes media matters went after dana Loesch for pointing that out, note how I haven’t mentioned the shooters name,
narciso (d1f714) — 3/16/2019 @ 3:31 pmThe shooter’s name is “Scumbag”.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/16/2019 @ 3:51 pmI had pulled some leads about the pulse matter, back then,
http://narcisoscorner.blogspot.com/2016/06/jihad-comes-toorlando-by-narciso-week.html?view=sidebar
narciso (d1f714) — 3/16/2019 @ 4:15 pmColonel: my late father was a firefighter. I used to ask him about bravery, since he and his crew ran into burning buildings fairly often to save other peoples’ lives. He told me you don’t think about it; you just do it.
I have two reactions: (1) I hope I am never tested the way Mr. Aziz was, and (2) if I am, I hope I can emulate his bravery.
And to me, the funny part is that no one on social media is really talking about this. It’s Islamophobia this, and white supremacy that. With gun control hysteria (do we even know how this worm of a human being got hold of his weaponry?) thrown in.
And I think that all misses the point. We don’t defeat terrorists with propaganda, or with gun control. We defeat them as human beings. Or so it seems to me.
Simon Jester (5721e2) — 3/16/2019 @ 5:04 pmBecause it doesn’t serve anyone’s narrative, Simon, certainly no one the networks are interested, of course the shooter will gain the notoriety that Will inspire as Breivik inspired this punk.
Narciso (b411db) — 3/16/2019 @ 5:18 pmFinishing the Honey Do List takes a lifetime…as it should.
mg (8cbc69) — 3/16/2019 @ 5:28 pm@136. (do we even know how this worm of a human being got hold of his weaponry?)
Yes, “we” do: per CNN, legally- had the proper permits- in NZ.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/16/2019 @ 5:34 pmJohn Hineracker of Powerline read his manifesto and states “he described himself as an “eco-fascist,” expressed hatred for conservatism and said that Communist China is his ideal country.”
sounds like he has a lot in common with NY Times lefty columnist Thomas Friedman.
kaf (bd613c) — 3/16/2019 @ 5:56 pmWell China isnt really concerned with ecology.
Narciso (b411db) — 3/16/2019 @ 6:31 pmYes, “we” do: per CNN, legally- had the proper permits- in NZ.
He was not on any watchlist, nor did he have invalidating convictions. Their gun laws are tougher than ours, though; by “lax” newspeople mean “people can own guns.”
Kevin M (21ca15) — 3/16/2019 @ 8:30 pmAmerica’s media laws, the most lax in the world, allow newspeople to say almost anything they want.
nk (dbc370) — 3/16/2019 @ 8:34 pmPerhaps, but they’d regulate blogs first.
Kevin M (21ca15) — 3/16/2019 @ 10:38 pm@142. See #10; you’re swinging after the bell.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 3/16/2019 @ 10:58 pmBusiness Insider, for when Russia Today is down:
nk (dbc370) — 3/17/2019 @ 3:39 amHaven’t had cable in a decade, sorry to see Fox go sharia.
mg (8cbc69) — 3/17/2019 @ 4:36 amOne less Noo Yawk goomba might be welcome, though. There’s still the Puerto Rican looking Italian guy Bongino, Neil Cavuto….
urbanleftbehind (b9194f) — 3/17/2019 @ 6:05 ammg (8cbc69) — 3/17/2019 @ 4:36 am
I, too, eschew cable, but also tv. When and how did fox go sharia?
felipe (023cc9) — 3/17/2019 @ 6:30 am146… and Putin leered…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/17/2019 @ 6:53 am146)Yes he was into trig denialism even more severe than sullivan, for a time he gave schindler a wide berth.
narciso (d1f714) — 3/17/2019 @ 7:24 amLast night, I made it a point to peruse LiveLeaks and, sure enough, they had the video of the scumbag terrorist murderer’s streaming. What an evil, heartless, soulless, good for nothing POS. As filmed, it resembles a video game, the sort I’ve read about. May the families who lost loved ones find comfort in their faith and the knowledge of a loving and just Lord God.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 3/17/2019 @ 7:38 amFox is “pre-empting” Jeannine Pirro for 1 week with some bogus miniseries because of her states about Ilhan Omar.
urbanleftbehind (b9194f) — 3/17/2019 @ 8:34 amCol, that’s the one venn diagram you will find me and Wayne LaPierre sharing circle edges. Since Nintendo and Sega systems dropped into the USA circa mid 80s, I wondered if the post-Atari video game industry was not a revanchist Japanese plot, first to take our money, then to make us lazy and unfit and now perhaps to fill in gaps where Russian gaslighting stops shirt of.
urbanleftbehind (b9194f) — 3/17/2019 @ 8:39 amColonel, in 1979 Dean Ing wrote a book called “Soft Targets” (original title was “Very Proper Charlies”).
The idea was a terrorist group who USED journalists’ love of reporting bad news to advance their cause and get them funding.
Until a group of journalists started making fun of them. And laughter was not on the terrorists’ agenda.
https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/very-proper-charlies
Simon Jester (5721e2) — 3/17/2019 @ 9:39 amfelipe – just my unhinged opinion after they wouldn’t allow Judge Pirro to be on the air because of scheduling changes. In other words for what she said to the muslim from minnigooshoo and probably so close to the insanity in N.Z.
mg (8cbc69) — 3/17/2019 @ 10:24 amKevinM
I think the media sees their laws as “lax” because they used to treat military style weapons as just another semi automatic rifle, rather than as some special powers weapon
steveg (a9dcab) — 3/17/2019 @ 10:40 am155… i’ll have to check that one out, Simon. The author’s name registers with me from his work in the past.
Colonel Haiku (54860c) — 3/17/2019 @ 10:55 amhttps://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/very-proper-charlies
nk (dbc370) — 3/17/2019 @ 11:09 am130. narciso (d1f714) — 3/16/2019 @ 2:41 pm
Pakistan, too?
This guy clearly got trained by Islamic terrorists. Whether he found them on his own, by pretending to be converty to Islam, or was steered to them with the help of Russia, I would not be sure.
And he professes admiration for China. What kind of white nationalist would profess admiration for China? One whose manifesto was written for him by Russian intelligence.
The manifesto borrows its title “The Great Replacement” and many of its ideas from Renaud Camus, a 72-year old French writer who has flounded a small political party that changes its platform from tiem to time. he has complained of being plagiarised by the killer, and also that his ideas are being applied in ways contrary to what he’s written in his entire life.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/terrorist-suspect-traced-his-radicalization-to-a-visit-to-france-11552695240
Wikipedia article:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/terrorist-suspect-traced-his-radicalization-to-a-visit-to-france-11552695240
If more people could read and study the manifesto, like with the Unabomber they could find links,
One immediate thought: The word “replace” was also used by the neo-Nazis in Charlottsville, Virginia in 2017. They had a slogan going “Jews will not replace us.”
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 3/17/2019 @ 12:14 pmMore on Camus:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renaud_Camus
We all know how Putin is mixed up in French politics.
And yes, Camus is pro-Putin:
https://www.source-material.org/blog/blog-russia-is-the-rock-the-yellow-vests-and-france-s-far-right
That blog post focuses, not on Camus but on on Frank Buhler, one of the founders of the “yellow vests” movement, who says he has had no contact with any authority in Russia, no FSB, no Duma, no Putin, no-one in the Kremlin, although he frequently visits Belarus (whose dictator is close to Russia, and his spy agency even still uses the name KGB) He claimed not to ever visited Russia but was shown social media posts where he did so he said he visited a long time ago amd refused to answer further questions.
Renaud Camus founded something called the National Council of European Resistance, and Buhler is so one of its 33 members.
From the above blog post:
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 3/17/2019 @ 12:20 pmRe: Aziz: It takes time to get the story straight.
Reports were somewhat unclear (of course) but from what I read in a newspaper today, combined with soemthing I read before, at that point it seemed like:
1) This happened at the second mosque, and is probably the main reason the death toll there stopped at 7. (it took some time to get it clear this was at the second mosque)
2) He grabbed whatever he could. It was a credit card reader. The killer began fleeing, evidently fearing it was some kind of a gun. He may have been out of ammunition at that time.
3) The killer dropped his weapon. Then Aziz picked it up and continued chasing him. But he was un= familiar with the weapon and could not find the trigger.
4) The killer got into his car and drove away. Police now seem to indicate therew as nobody else in the car with him.
5) Unfortunately, maybe, (I’m not sure that would have been a good thing to see) this second attack was not being livestreamed.
Here’s the New York Times version, just posted the last two hours or so:
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/17/world/asia/new-zealand-shooting.html
The New York Times version is probably the most accurate. (and makes the most sense)
Way down in the article:
So, he flung the credit card machine at the killer. Also, the gun he picked up was empty, and it was not that he couldn’t find the trigger. Also, he is from Afghanistan originally, (Kabul) not Pakistan, and lived in Australia for 27 years before moving to New Zealand a few years ago.
So he left Kabul sometime after 1973 or 1979, moved to Australia in the mid-1980s, and to New Zealand circa 2013.
The killer was probably heading to a third attack site that he mentioend somewhere but by that time he was being chased by police and his car was run off the road.
Note: While the guns were purchased legally, the killer had magazines of a capacity which were illegal and normally unobtainable in New Zealand.
He had help.
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 3/17/2019 @ 12:50 pmnarciso @70.
He claimed he went to New Zealand for a break, or maybe to train, or sime idea like that, but then decided that New Zealand would be a good place to do it anyway.
And he said he switched his targets from another city because the mosque buildings in Christchurch looked like they were more foreign architecture (!) and besides it was a good idea to do this in a far away place.
Now we should not accept anything he wrote as the truth.
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 3/17/2019 @ 12:59 pmIn all of 2018, there were only 35 murders in New Zealand.
Paul Montagu (d49d0a) — 3/17/2019 @ 9:03 pmhttps://twitter.com/byHeatherLong/status/1106590260102905856
164. And the number of murders committed with guns in New Zealand each year has been less than 10 for several years.
Ihe low from 1994 to 2014 was 3 in 2011 and 2012, and the high was 11 in 2009. It oreviously was in double digits in 1994 (16) 1997 (13) and 2002 (10)
https://kiwigunblog.wordpress.com/2017/03/04/new-zealands-true-rate-of-firearm-homicide/
This was on a scall with Sept 11, 2001, proportionately to the total population of New Zealand. There are only about 4,800,000 people living there.
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 3/18/2019 @ 1:12 pmSome more corrections to the Aziz story. The credit card machine was about the size of a rock, and he threw it at the attacker. The killer had started already shooting people before he entered the second mosque and it looks like he never did. The weapon he dropped was a shotgun. It was out of ammunition and he threw it at the killer.
Police came relatively quickly, even the special armed tactical unit, but this was partially a result of the waqy things worked out. We are not getting full details, including when the ambulances came.
The killer started live streaming at 1:33 pm New Zealand time, four minutes before actually beginning his attack. He wanted to show all the weapons and so on. He arrived at 1:37. The attack began at 1:39. (he wss looking for the right place, in his mind, to park.)
One person charged him right away and was gunned down. The killer was very ruthless, and would fire at bodies lying down. he fired at peole who had run out of the mosque – and went back in. When he was leaving, he fired two shots at a woman lying in the street crying “help me, help me!” and then ran over her for good measure. And he would stop the car, and pause to shoot more people.
He still didn’t kill all. Some were protected some were hiding. And he wanted to leave before the police came. A police car probably passed him at 1:46 (a siren is heard on his video, still being streamed) and police arrived at the mosque at 1:47.
When he first entered the first mosque, there was one elderly New Zealand woman, a convert to Islam and volunteer at alocal food bank, named Linda Armstrong, who attempted to reason with him, urging him to calm down. She was quickly shot dead and killed. The imam’s wife, who was a close friend of hers, wrapped her arms around her and was shot in the arm herself, but not killed.
The first attempt to call police failed because the operator could not hear or understand the caller over the noise. The second, by the same person, succeeded.
Theer are not that many police in New Zealand. There is a district on the east coast of New Zealan’s South Island that includes Christchurch called the Canterbury District — the New York Times says it is pastoral – and the total number of constables there is 827. They cover a population of about 612,000 people. For comparison, Boston has a population of 617,000 and over 2,000 polie officers.
There would have been about 30 front-line police officers on the streets of Christchurch on a regular Friday afternoon, and they were probably all sent initially to the forst mosque. They are not armed, but keep weapons (either a Glock pistol or a M4 rifle) in the trunks of their cars. They don’t wear bullet proof vests but only stab proof vests. They have ballistic armor in their trunks as well. So it would have taken them a little bit extra to get them out of their police cars. But he was gone anyway by the time they arrived.
There is also a special armed tactical unit. That arrived at the Al Noor (the first) mosque four minutes after the first police officers, and ten minutes after the first emergency call, or at 1:51. The first emergency all, therefore, was at 1:41, or two minutes after it started, and when it started the imam or the people inside didn’t understand what it was. Now the tactical unit only arrived there so soon because they were in a training session in the city center (where the mosque was) and all suited up. Still, that didn’t help.
At the time they were arriving, at 1:51, the killer was arriving at the second (newer) mosque. That’s where he seems to have been stopped in his tracks (althouh not before killing seven people) When abdul Aziz threw the shotgun at his car (like an arrow he says) the gunman just fled.
At some pointhe was chased by poice. the police who arrested him were from another town, called Linwood, about 20 kilometers (or 12 miles) outsde of Christchurch and the police car crashed into his car about four kilometers (or two and a half miles) outside of Linwood. There is video of teh end, shot by a bystander. The front of the police cruiser is wedged into the right side of the killer’s SUV, tilting it up against the curb. The trunk of the killer’s SUV is open, the driver’s door is open and the front tire is spinning. One oficer, holding a handgun, approaches the driver’s door. Anotyer policeman, wkith arifle, circles the front of the car. The policeman with the handgun pulls arifle out of teh car and then the suspect. This was at 2:17 pm
Sammy Finkelman (102c75) — 3/18/2019 @ 1:58 pm