Patterico's Pontifications

12/22/2018

President Trump’s ‘Big, Beautiful Wall’

Filed under: General — Dana @ 7:58 am



[guest post by Dana]

Untitled

President Trump:

The Democrats, are saying loud and clear that they do not want to build a Concrete Wall — but we are not building a Concrete Wall, we are building artistically designed steel slats, so that you can easily see through it.

(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)

–Dana

194 Responses to “President Trump’s ‘Big, Beautiful Wall’”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (023079)

  2. …and long for what you see on the other side. Heh.

    Gryph (08c844)

  3. This is too ridiculous for words.

    If you give an adult a Lego set–the latest version of which costs $800–what’s he going to do with it? He’s going to read the instructions, follow directions, and put the pieces together in whatever form whoever wrote the instructions commanded.

    If you give a child a Lego set, what is he going to do with it? He’s not going to read the instructions or follow directions, and put the pieces together in some form whoever wrote the instructions never imagined in the first place.

    The difference is, if you give a child $800, he’s not going to waste it on a Lego set. The question is, what if you gave a child $5 billion? Well, he’s not going to waste on some stupid wall to no effect. Yet that is exactly what an adult would do and is doing in fact.

    This is what happens when adults elect a child, who is not smart, as president.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  4. Unlike electric cars or decapitating windfarm you mean:

    https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2018/12/the-supreme-court-would-prefer-not-to.php

    Narciso (d1f714)

  5. The last 30 years shows the adults aren’t interested in fixing things

    Narciso (d1f714)

  6. So called, because they aren’t affected they didn’t overhaul Obamacare for reasons.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  7. Well, it efficiently combines pikes with walls, so there’s that going for it.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  8. Has nobody else noticed that this fake wall leaves more than half the length of the border (the gaps between the slats) wide open??

    THIS WILL NOT DO!

    Dave (1bb933)

  9. Of course, some kid will get his head caught and it will be Trump’s fault.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  10. What if someone gets impaled on the wall??

    Dana (023079)

  11. This addresses the primary objection of Trump’s critics: the gaps between the slats will let small refugee and immigrant CHILDREN into the country, but keep the large job-stealing scab identity thieving ADULTS out.

    It lets the innocents in, and keeps the sinners out.

    What’s not to like?

    Pouncer (df6448)

  12. Mexico says they won’t pay for the wall?

    The wall just got a few more slats.

    Patterico (91e2b3)

  13. I’m not a conservative. But the man did run on a wall and he won the election. So let him have it.

    JRH (fe281f)

  14. But the man did run on a wall and he won the election. So let him have it.

    He ran on a wall paid for entirely by Mexico.

    Always read the fine print.

    Dave (1bb933)

  15. Of course, some kid will get his head caught and it will be Trump’s fault.
    Kevin M (cb624b) — 12/22/2018 @ 9:32 am

    What if someone gets impaled on the wall??
    Dana (023079) — 12/22/2018 @ 9:34 am

    Some forward-thinkers have already raised that tragic possibility.

    But we have the tightly-reasoned legal opinion of a putative expert that it’s not a problem.

    Dave (1bb933)

  16. We could pay for it with a surcharge on money wires to Mexico from currency exchanges. Or Western Union could just write a check so we don’t.

    nk (dbc370)

  17. What if someone gets impaled on the wall??

    Dana (023079) — 12/22/2018 @ 9:34 am

    Someone climbs your fence to break into your house and gets impaled on it? Are you liable?

    NJRob (4d595c)

  18. I see the supreme court making it illegal to lock your house and lock your car.

    mg (8cbc69)

  19. Heck below the mason dixon line they may make you take the door off the hinges for easy peasy access.

    mg (8cbc69)

  20. Western Union’s entire annual revenue (revenue, not profit) wouldn’t be enough to pay for the fake wall that Trump couldn’t get from Mexico.

    Dave (1bb933)

  21. Probably, NJRob. But this is not the fence of a private homeowner with a duty of reasonable care to his fellow citizens.

    nk (dbc370)

  22. That could have been 22 months ago, but wanna bet Mnuchin or even Happyfeet’s favorite political spouse raised holy hell.

    urbanleftbehind (335b02)

  23. Clarification: It wouldn’t even be enough for the $5.6B fake PART of the fake wall that Trump is demanding we pay for because Mexico beat him.

    Dave (1bb933)

  24. Western Union’s entire annual revenue (revenue, not profit) wouldn’t be enough to pay for the fake wall that Trump couldn’t get from Mexico.

    So they can pay it over ten years and we’ll discount the note to the Chinese like it was T-bill or bond.

    nk (dbc370)

  25. Trump is not willing to compromise on building a big beautiful wall from coast-to-coast even if it costs $100 billion or more and that’s why the government shut down and millions of children are dying in the streets as we speak.

    Well, except he’s compromised on calling it a wall, building it from coast-to-coast, and only wants $5 billion earnest money. The Democrats on the other hand are more than willing to compromise, they’re willing to say no, no way, hell no, not gonna happen, nothing doing – a multitude of alternative compromise positions.

    Jerryskids (702a61)

  26. 2,000 miles of lightning rods? Mexicans should get a charge out of that, Captain, sir.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  27. Agreed, JRH (#13), Agreed!

    urbanleftbehind (335b02)

  28. @13. Americans are ‘letting him have it’ all right— but don’t omit the key line of his sales pitch: Mexico will pay for the wall, not the U.S.

    They won’t. And neither will American taxpayers. The highly paid right wing radio squawkers forget that. So government shuts down. But their holiday checks still clear.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  29. The MLS has rightfully feted him for his efforts, and maybe his sole remaining club the Galaxy can pilfer some prime age Euro or EPL talent with that dividend.

    urbanleftbehind (335b02)

  30. is that about beckham, Miami has grateful hocked up some heavy quid for his soccer franchise,

    narciso (d1f714)

  31. Anschutz subsidized half the league at one point, owned all or pieces of 6 franchises. Only owns the Galaxy now.

    urbanleftbehind (335b02)

  32. I thought he was mostly into film, I think the next Narnia is upcoming, but there is something about finding the team you’re on, and joining it, become the soccer ball hits you in an unconfortable place,

    narciso (d1f714)

  33. Donald, you ignorant slat…
    ICE could go really medieval and put heads on the tops of those pikes, but that would assume he’d get the slats that Mexico paid for.

    Paul Montagu (e20d45)

  34. “ICE could go really medieval and put heads on the tops of those pikes, but that would assume he’d get the slats that Mexico paid for.”
    Paul Montagu (e20d45) — 12/22/2018 @ 11:10 am

    Or, if we were “smart” conservatives we would up the medieval ante and just invade Mexico.

    Munroe (54af9a)

  35. Yes, yes, and pretend to lose and give them California for reparations. I’ve been saying that for a long time.

    nk (dbc370)

  36. Let them into your unlocked homes, let them drive your car, let them sleep with your wife, boyfriend, tranny, whatever… wonder what will be the last straw for you.

    mg (8cbc69)

  37. I wish you’d stop encouraging the Democrats that way, mg.

    nk (dbc370)

  38. Donald Trump has never built anything in his life. He is not a developer. What he does is dell licenses for his name to developers, who consequently go bankrupt, while he counts their losses as his profits on tax returns, short changes contractors, and hires low wage foreigners, mostly from Eastern Europe but also Central America to clean “his” properties.

    How do you think he was able to import his third wife? He flagrantly cheated on his first two wives, then trades them in for a foreign import model, who illegally worked here. He’s shouting out about some caravan from Central America, while hiring illegal immigrants from Central America.

    Trump is what he always has been and forever will be, a total fraud. But as long as he has enough butt gerbils to tickle his colon, he will continue Tweeting on Twitter. Whatever that is or means.

    Meanwhile, the entire country is going bankrupt–the stock market is in the tank, home building is way down, and the federal deficit adds $1 trillion a year on top of $21 trillion in national debt. All so he can go screw his imported wife at Mar-a-Lago?

    There is no sense to be made of any of this. Other than that a small minority of the American people have gone butt gerbil crazy.

    The Republican party is doomed to irrelevancy. All its voters are doomed to bankruptcy. And Trump just smiles and walks away, with his fake hair and orange spay-tan?

    Give me a break. I personally know several multi-millionaires who have owned and developed property. None of them bankrupted their investors or short changed their contractors. None of them hired illegal immigrants with fake visas. None of them cheated on their wives to be seen with some model.

    They all made money the real way, honestly and impeccably. That’s why they’re actual millionaires. Meaning they have a net worth of over $1 million. Not like Trump, whose net worth is probably in the minus. He is not a billionaire, never has been. He is not a millionaire, never has been. He is not even a thousandaire, never has been. He’s a broke, bankrupt businessman who lucked into a Reality TV show.

    He barely won the electoral college by 80,000 votes spread out over a few counties in three states. He lost the popular vote by 3,000,000, and that was against Hillary Clinton, for crying out loud!

    He has nowhere to go but down from here. Nor do his supporters, which will soon be relegated to the septic tank of history.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  39. I find it odd that numerous supporters of our president are appearing on television and stating that they never believed that Mexico was going to pay for the wall. So why did they believe the part about building a wall?

    John B Boddie (73e5f3)

  40. no Mexico’s still paying for their share of the wall

    they’re actually pretty excited about it, cause of how pretty it is

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  41. Let them into your unlocked homes, let them drive your car, let them sleep with your wife, boyfriend, tranny, whatever…

    I think you may have omitted a step or two in your reasoning here.

    Could you elaborate on why refusing to subsidize Donald Trump’s pharaonic monument to his own ego means we need to do any of those things?

    Dave (68a548)

  42. Go fund me “the wall” approaching $20,000,000 dollars. If everyone of the 6o million trump voters donates $20 dollars the wall will get built!

    az jay (6491d5)

  43. Trump has completely shattered the faith we once had in political promises.

    Munroe (b11042)

  44. America is polluted with crimaleins.
    National Parks are being damaged by the illegal dope growers as well as many natural drainage flows below the grow.
    Its sickening watching the entitled few give our great land away to these thug crimalein dope growers.

    mg (8cbc69)

  45. no Mexico’s still paying for their share of the wall

    their share is 100%

    100.0% to be more precise

    Dave (68a548)

  46. they’re having a bake sale sunday

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  47. “Someone climbs your fence to break into your house and gets impaled on it? Are you liable?”
    NJRob (4d595c) — 12/22/2018 @ 10:24 am

    No, but if you aren’t entirely truthful with the details and you’re associated with Trump, you belong to Mueller.

    Munroe (aa84d6)

  48. I have to give Ryan credit for passing the bomb to McConnell as time expired.

    mg (8cbc69)

  49. happyfeet (28a91b) — 12/22/2018 @ 12:21 pm

    sounds like a good idea

    sopapillas are yum and those late fees can really start to add up quickly

    Dave (68a548)

  50. Jheff Fhlake thinks it’s all about him (arizona slucky-dooks these ones all the same)

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  51. sopapillas are yum

    ugh i have to figure out brunch on monday still

    gather only does it on weekends and that was kinda what i had in my head cause i wanna stay in the neighborhood

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  52. Should have already built a wall around cantafordya, oregon and washington.

    mg (8cbc69)

  53. I find it odd that numerous supporters of our president are appearing on television and stating that they never believed that Mexico was going to pay for the wall. So why did they believe the part about building a wall?

    Because Donald Trump (PBUH) was sent to free the white race from the tyranny of logic.

    Dave (1bb933)

  54. it’s just a wall why’s everyone’s having a Mattis-level drama queen meltdown

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  55. *everyone*

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  56. *fake* wall

    Dave (1bb933)

  57. Well you know nk is gonna skip cause if he doesn’t do street tamales and empanadas what makes you think he’s gonna risk on cream goods and jellied fruits?

    urbanleftbehind (335b02)

  58. Because everything is fine, and nothing needs to change.

    Narciso (a7d019)

  59. because wage suppression, higher school taxes, higher taxes in general, higher rents, and fentanyl and MS13 are preferable.

    jb (402d7c)

  60. It’s too bad even a simple majority could not be had due to flaky corks or cork flakes.

    I had a way to get structural wall with some dem votes in that scenario…
    get the co senators of these states CA Feinstein, DE Coons, MA Markey, NJ Menendez, VT Leahy and have them insert the condition that the Wall start as close to physically feasible to El Paso. My question back to the board is what is the grand scheme behind such a strategy?

    urbanleftbehind (335b02)

  61. i decided to grab some boreks tomorrow from this bosnian place and just have some fruit and tea and cocktails … trying to find somewhere to go was becoming too much of a chore

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  62. Back in the day, the government cratered financing for the SST; the SSB won’t get off the ground, either.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. He ran on a wall paid for entirely by Mexico.

    “…and you can KEEP your doctor!”

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  64. Those seem pretty tasty pikachu.

    If Paul Ryan had been willing to force the house to vote as this week, maybe they would have held it.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  65. Let them into your unlocked homes, let them drive your car, let them sleep with your wife, boyfriend, tranny, whatever… wonder what will be the last straw for you.

    Better dig another subbasement in that bunker, mg. “Them” is coming.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  66. Some desperate mother is going to scale that wall with her two children and the kids will playfully impale themselves. As she heads north, Mom will leave a tearful note about how this is all Trump’s fault.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  67. Back in the day, the government cratered financing for the SST

    And the SSC too…

    Dave (1bb933)

  68. “…and you can KEEP your doctor!”

    Most people did keep their doctors.

    Mexico hasn’t contributed a single peseta to Trump’s wall, though.

    Dave (1bb933)

  69. No 10 million lost their plans,

    Narciso (d1f714)

  70. I went to this restaurant that had “Authentic Puerto Rican Cuisine” on its sign. I said, “Yeah, right. Only if you stole that Ellengee Meats truck outside along with the chicken.”

    nk (dbc370)

  71. @66. It’s a $30 co-pay w/a doctor, not $30 billion, Kevin.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  72. @70. Very dis-Cerning, Dave. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  73. Senator McConnell has stated that he will not hold a vote until Republicans, Democrats and the President reach agreement on the bill to be presented. Unless he includes Laura and Rush in this group, I don’t think consensus is reachable.

    John B Boddie (73e5f3)

  74. You will save $2,500 a year. This isn’t trying to collapse the system and create single payer. Pinky swear.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  75. This is why I’ve resorted to posting recipes, next I’ll be including spoilers from aquaman.

    I know our newest straggler honestly doesn’t care about the consequences of policy.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  76. Most people did keep their doctors.

    That’s because only 5% of the working population was forced into the ACA system. The rest of you were exempted so you would say idiotic things like “I kept MY doctor.”

    Not one single person on a private plan in California kept their medical plan. Not one. BEcause California added such weird stuff to plans that no “grandfathered” plan was acceptable under the ACA guidelines. Instead they had to get an ACA plan, go without, or close their self-employed businesses and take a job with an employer.

    Typical divide and conquer, and to top it off, we had to listen to STUPID rants from both sides by people who didn’t know SH1T about the actual situations with ACA plans, but had an opinion informed by propaganda.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  77. Ten million people were privately insured. Then the government forced another 10 million — who had mostly never seen a doctor — into the same risk pool and capped their costs. Guess what happened to the premiums, networks, co-pays and deductibles of the original 10 million. Everything but the networks went way up; the networks got cut in half or worse.

    Then everyone else who was not in either of those groups prided themselves on their goodness.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  78. It’s a $30 co-pay w/a doctor, not $30 billion, Kevin.

    The average added premiums to the 10 million I mentioned above were more than $3K a year, so yeah, $30 billion.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  79. The rest of you were exempted so you would say idiotic truthful things like “I kept MY doctor.”

    You’re arguing against strawmen. I didn’t deny that Obamacare screwed some people over.

    Nevertheless, Obama’s “keep your doctor” claim was much closer to being true than Trump’s “Mexico will pay”.

    That you would even make the (irrelevant *and* inaccurate) comparison is mystifying and seems like just the sort of banal tribal dissimulation Donald Trump relies on when confronted with unwelcome truths.

    You claim to be outraged by Obama’s lack of candor, so I fail to see how it could possibly be a defense for Trump’s.

    Dave (1bb933)

  80. @82. Yep.
    _____

    The Ripe Stuff, Captain, sir!- Ol’Chuck Schumer breaks Steel Barrier?!

    Film at 11.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  81. I lost my Dr. after 22 years. stop. and the cost quadrupled.stop. obamacare is hurting many Americans. stop. Build the wall

    mg (8cbc69)

  82. https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/12/22/report-huber-and-horowitz-investigations-deep-state-cons-constructed-by-doj/l lawyers are questionable individuals working for anyone but the American Taxpayer.

    mg (8cbc69)

  83. The rest of you were exempted so you would say idiotic things like “I kept MY doctor.”

    And they still insist on saying them. Of course, they have federal, state, county or city paid health insurance, so the question is academic to them. On the other hand, the Wall is Trump’s idea, so that’s ipso facto proof that it’s bad. Bad, bad, baddity-bad, bad!

    nk (dbc370)

  84. They make me sick. They want America to fail so they can claim Trump failed. They are what they accuse Trump of being. Agents of our enemies, foreign and domestic, and traitors to America.

    nk (dbc370)

  85. Summing up the weak:

    https://www.americanthinker.com

    Narciso (d1f714)

  86. slippy-sloppy boy-girl General Mattis is secretly if not openly rooting for a lebanon barracks fiasco in syria i think

    such a sick treasonous little twist that one is

    and the fish rots from the place where they get an opportunistic infection all up in it and there’s not much you can do cause we don’t really have a lot of good treatments for fish but sometimes if you isolate them it can bring their stress levels down and promote healing but some fish get even more stressed out in isolation so it’s really kinda touch and go whatever you do

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  87. slippy-sloppy boy-girl General Mattis is secretly if not openly rooting for a lebanon barracks fiasco in syria i think

    Yeah, I blame the person who hired that sick treasonous little twist.

    Paul Montagu (8476d1)

  88. me personally i’d never blame President Trump for anything but that’s the difference between me and you

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  89. And they still insist on saying them.

    I guess we can only applaud Kevin’s tactically brilliant non-sequitur of bringing up Obama and health-care in a thread about Trump’s broken immigration promises. He has demonstrated why Donald Trump’s toxic tribal cant is so effective by parroting it.

    And as a result, we’ve gone from criticizing Donald Trump for lying to demonizing me for telling the truth.

    Of course, they have federal, state, county or city paid health insurance, so the question is academic to them.

    You conveniently left out the largest category: company.

    Dave (1bb933)

  90. I’m buying stock in Kleenex.

    mg (8cbc69)

  91. Oh no! If the House doesn’t pass a resolution, then the owner of the Trump Wall GoFundMe account will have to return the money, which means there will be cash money for ladders but none for slats!

    Paul Montagu (8476d1)

  92. Oh no! If the House doesn’t pass a resolution, then the owner of the Trump Wall GoFundMe account will have to return the money, which means there will be cash money for ladders but none for slats!

    Maybe they could use the money to buy back the autographed Tim Tebow helmet that Trump had his “charity” buy for him with donors’ money and recently had to sell to avoid fraud charges.

    After not getting the fake wall he asked Santa for because he wasn’t a good boy this year, I’m sure getting his football helmet back would really cheer him up this Christmas!

    If they have any money left over, there are also two “large portraits” of his favorite person in the whole world the charity paid for that I’m sure Melania can find a place for in the White House.

    Dave (1bb933)

  93. Heh, the Trump portrait painter looks like Weird Al. Fitting.

    Paul Montagu (8476d1)

  94. Timmah Tebow’s Christmas was shaping up to be a real downer.

    His favorite Christmas helmet was missing – he’d looked everywhere – and to make matters worse Santa Jesus hadn’t answered any of his letters AGAIN this year! (metaphor jesus)

    Nevertheless, Timmah was determined to make it through the season. But little did he know that a handsome stranger and a mysterious package would put him on a path to the most magical Christmas ever!!

    A CONCUSSION FOR CHRISTMAS: A HALLMARK INSTA-CLASSIC!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  95. Heh, the Trump portrait painter looks like Weird Al. Fitting.

    I loved this little gem:

    Trump’s wife Melania won the auction, with a bid of $10,000. Then the auctioneer convinced her to double it.

    I guess Melania hadn’t gotten around to reading The Art of the Deal yet…

    So schweet that she wanted a portrait of her little snookums to dote on – I guess he wasn’t around much, since that (2007) was exactly the same time he was off humping Stormy, Karen and god (or maybe Michael Cohen) knows who/what else.

    Dave (1bb933)

  96. the wall is very pretty and butterflies in particular will enjoy the slats

    it’s a wall of peace it’s a wall of cheer

    it’s a wall of love growing every year

    there’s so much that is nice

    plus it stops the head lice

    it’s a great wall after all

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  97. As to the shift to slats, I think he figured out that he who builds in concrete can also be buried in it.

    urbanleftbehind (335b02)

  98. Can I see the hands of those that actually expected Mexico to pay for the wall?

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  99. https://hotair.com/archives/2018/12/23/cbp-nabs-convicted-sex-offenders-ms-13-members-border/

    Some guys that sure share the feelings of the open borders types. Just doing the work Americans won’t do.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  100. ugh a lot of times with the sex offenders they forget to run the lice comb and then they release them into the elementary schools and all the kids come home scratching

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  101. Dave,

    Obamacare is a terribly sore spot with those who want to buy private health insurance but have incomes too high for subsidies. If you understood how terribly pernicious the system was, you’d stop poking the festering sore.

    For a person my age, with my income, the premiums for a catastrophic plan are about 30% of pre-tax income, and then there’s still another $7K per person of deductible before any payment is made. And that’s the cheapest plan, and the network is still narrow. Plans with lower deductibles have much higher premiums. The subsidies are huge.

    I bet your employee plan is better. As I said, the pain was focused on about 5% of households, in a divide-and-conquer arrangement. The experiences of the other 95% are irrelevant to the analysis and infuriating to the afflicted when they are used to defend Obama.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  102. Kevin I’ve read your descriptions of the many problems it caused you, and I absolutely sympathize. I was against the stupid law from the day it was born, and every day since.

    But as for poking at a festering sore, you are the one who introduced the topic into an entirely unrelated discussion, in response to my factual observation that Trump promised that Mexico would pay for 100% of the wall.

    We seem to agree that the program was (relatively) benign for the 95% or so who could keep their group coverage and their doctors. Obama claimed that it would be benign for 100% and that was untrue.

    We also agree that Mexico is going to pay for 0% of any wall-like border security infrastructure. Trump claimed Mexico would pay for 100% of it and that was also untrue.

    When someone says: “Trump promised 100% of X and the truth is 0%,” responding (in effect) “Yes, but Obama promised 100% of Y and the truth was 95%” just seems like a really bizarre and weak argument, and attempt to change the subject, to me.

    Suppose the situation were reversed. Suppose Trump had miraculously gotten the government of Mexico to pony up 95% of the full cost of a big, beautiful wall along the entire border. And suppose Obamacare had left literally every person in America in the same situation you found yourself in.

    If someone pointed out the (much bigger) gap between Obama’s statements and the truth in this scenario, would you consider “Yeah, but Trump only got 95% of the wall money from Mexico” a sensible counter-argument?

    Dave (1bb933)

  103. Employer plans have to be ACA compliant too, and not all could claim a religious exemption like Hobby Lobby.

    As for that BS WaPo Tebow’s helmet article, Trump’s foundation is a private foundation and not a publicly supported charity. It was founded with Trump’s money. WaPo does not say whether or not Trump’s seed money had run out, just a lot of “might haves” and “could haves” about violating IRS rules. You know what’s a more likely “could” and “might”? That Jeff Bezos is violating IRS rules by treating his hobby, namely The Washington Post, as a business.

    nk (dbc370)

  104. “We seem to agree that the program was (relatively) benign for the 95% or so who could keep their group coverage and their doctors. Obama claimed that it would be benign for 100% and that was untrue.“
    Dave (1bb933) — 12/23/2018 @ 10:41 am

    Unlike Obama’s false claim (and Bush’s bogus WMD claim, while we’re at it) Trump’s bogus claim was benign for 100%. Who exactly was harmed by his false claim that Mexico would pay for it?

    Munroe (75c371)

  105. For Munroe. I can post this as often as you regurgitate the Bogus WMD claim.

    DRJ (15874d)

  106. Post it as often as you like, it doesn’t make Trump’s bogus claim any less benign.

    Munroe (32b2b6)

  107. It was a republican/conservative vomited up by heritage foundation and later romney care. put in place when drug companies bought enough senators to filibuster single payer medicare for all. republican/conservative ideas on healthcare have always been crap.

    lany (18cacf)

  108. No Perry this came from Gruber and Robert creamer.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  109. @100. Just look at the design of that barrier, Mr. Feet! Our Captain will make a deal with the manufacturers; he is a shrewd and clever negotiator– steel combs sell for under $10 at CVS.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  110. it’s a fun wall that’s for sure

    people are certainly going to enjoy having it, and referencing the design in their own creations

    the hermeneutics of this wall connote the non-passage of head lice, and, by extension, the non-passage of vermin more broadly

    but the adorable slats, so friendly to the passage of butterflies and small rodent-like creatures, speak of the ebb and flow of cultural exchange

    you could slip a roasted butternut and tilapia taco through these slats and say hola amigo here is a tasty taco for you

    SO fun

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  111. how you going to get Mole through?

    mg (8cbc69)

  112. There were certainly caches of wmds some even used against coalition forces, the quantity was not what was expected, however it took only a few shells and the right wind conditions, for halabja

    Narciso (d1f714)

  113. i think you could do the mole in a freezer bag and just slip it through like that, but there’s going to be lots of innovation and experimentation to directly address these sorts of things

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  114. It might also curb obesity in that all those head liced yoots will want to be rail thin enough to squeeze thru the slats rather than pack on the pounds and hope for manual labor and a spot on the company soccer team to sweat it off.

    urbanleftbehind (335b02)

  115. fake wall is fake

    i feel kinda sorry for it

    i think real walls consider it a slap in the face

    and honestly it’s hard to blame them

    Dave (68a548)

  116. Mole in a freezer bag is not cool.

    mg (8cbc69)

  117. these are dark times

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  118. @121. December 21 has passed, Mr. Feet; the days get longer and brighter now ’til June!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  119. oh who knew

    that’s kind of a gamechanger

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  120. Mole in a freezer bag is not cool

    Taste wise or spoilage/getting sick wise?

    urbanleftbehind (335b02)

  121. This is a long, insightful and provocative paper that I recommend reading:

    THE CENTER CAN HOLD: Public Policy for an Age of Extremes

    I hope Patrick sees it shares his impressions. Of course thoughtful discussion by anyone is always refreshing. The authors are former Cato Institute guys who lost faith in libertarian orthodoxy.

    If you’re not up for reading 14.5 pages, there’s an editorial-length review here:

    A New Center Being Born (trigger alerts: David Brooks, NY Times)

    I don’t Brooks really does the full paper justice, so I suggest reading the whole thing.

    Of course it’s easy to talk in generalities, which, as a sort of manifesto, the paper does (they do also give some examples of specific policies), but their arguments are persuasive enough to make me reconsider some of my own entrenched ideological positions (gasp!). The authors have considerable sympathy for the concerns of Trump voters, but none for the man himself.

    (h/t: Hot Air)

    Dave (1bb933)

  122. Well omidyar got his money’s worth, Market fundamentalism, gah it makes my teeth hurt, ignoring that the housing bubble was driven and sustained by govt coercion, that’s just in the intro, the remedies are likely to be much worse.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  123. i prefer storing in glass, for taste.

    mg (8cbc69)

  124. See, Dave! They understand that you have to come up with new material every once in a while if you want to hold people’s attention at cocktail parties or on blog comment threads. You can’t just keep saying the same thing over, and over, and over again.

    nk (dbc370)

  125. Yes but does it have to sound so ignorant of past causes much less current realities.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  126. Nobody takes those guys seriously. If they ever got themselves an army of Bolsheviks, then maybe.

    nk (dbc370)

  127. the remedies are likely to be much worse

    They seem to be generally hostile to regulation (both in the form of mandates and corporate favors/welfare). One exception they note is when necessary to prevent “perverse incentives” where an unregulated market would allow people to shift costs onto third parties via externalities. It’s hard for me to disagree with that philosophy, general as it is.

    Dave (1bb933)

  128. Except the subprime snafu was market driven,

    Narciso (d1f714)

  129. Ah, the fundamental beauty of the President telling weak-willed Congressional Republicans: ‘You won’t vote for my wall? Well I won’t vote for your war!’

    You neocons thought you could marginalize and insulate yourself indefinitely, forever riding overseas contracts and government payola on someone else’s reputation, forever using the ‘NATIONAL SECURITY’ excuse against upstarts who didn’t know how the game was played, just like Bob Mueller uses the ‘PART OF AN ONGOING INVESTIGATION’ excuse.

    All the while forgetting that you actually have to remain popular within your own party and aligned with people that the voters respect. Rest assured that peacemaking is one of those things!

    And Jim Mattis was FIRED, not simply resigning. His last act was to authorize withdrawal from Syria, and Trump is putting in his replacement now. Amazing how timetables can move up when you have a can-do attitude and the willingness to follow through!

    As for the wall, ain’t nobody ever said we can’t add multiple layers later and send Mexico the bill if people get uppity about funding. But apparently even they’re tired of Central Americans using their country as a thoroughfare, and now they’re funding development projects down there just to tighten up on the flow a bit-which isn’t exactly paying for the wall, but the Democrats aren’t about to tax the remittances of their only remaining constituency!

    Essence Thief (e54c20)

  130. he was fired cause he’s a dirty lickspittle that wasn’t up to the job

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  131. You neocons thought you could marginalize and insulate yourself indefinitely, forever riding overseas contracts and government payola on someone else’s reputation, forever using the ‘NATIONAL SECURITY’ excuse against upstarts who didn’t know how the game was played, just like Bob Mueller uses the ‘PART OF AN ONGOING INVESTIGATION’ excuse.

    We’ve got another escapee from The Journal of American Greatness folks!

    (Jonah does a very entertaining take-down of the TJOAG polishers-of-fecal-matter and their knee-slappingly dumb “neocon” tropes this week).

    but the Democrats aren’t about to tax the remittances of their only remaining constituency

    So you believe the Democrats just elected a 35 seat majority in the House, and won the national House vote by 6 or 7%, with Mexican immigrants as their sole constituency?

    LOL

    Dave (1bb933)

  132. Well the surprise will be ‘you get a tax, you get a tax’ ala oprah before she burns Madeleine l’engles master work in a funeral fure.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  133. Is that a reference to her school in S.A.?

    urbanleftbehind (335b02)

  134. Ha, but watch the Jim Jordan contingent get greedy and want all remittances taxed…then Chinesers y los Hindu H-1B will have their star wars cantina reps in Congress swat down that poison pill post hadte..

    urbanleftbehind (335b02)

  135. “housing bubble was driven and sustained by govt coercion”

    No it wasn’t. It was driven by a poorly regulated market (financial derivatives) and sustained by collusion amongst rating agencies.

    Davethulhu (c2a30b)

  136. No, a wrinkle in time, Jordan won’t have the votes then. And that referred to her car giveaway

    Narciso (d1f714)

  137. I knew the first part, I swear she was the original GM bailout with those folk all getting Pontiac C6s, with many later kvetching about the tax they owed.

    urbanleftbehind (335b02)

  138. No it wasn’t. It was driven by a poorly regulated market (financial derivatives) and sustained by collusion amongst rating agencies.

    That was The Meltdown. The Housing Bubble was caused by too many mortgages given to people who couldn’t make the payments, in response to government regulators who pressed lenders to issue loans to high credit risk debtors.

    The Bubble was Stage 1. The Meltdown was Stage 2. The finance industry could have avoided Stage 2 by using due diligence, etc, but without the Bubble there would have been no Meltdown, and government intervention was a major cause of Stage 1.

    Kishnevi (86d06e)

  139. No, they couldn’t because some of the same officials who pushed the policies like Franklin Raines turned around and became lobbyists stieglitz was one of the more high profile academics as was Krugman there were a few heroes like falcon that house staffer who investigated the scams

    Narciso (d1f714)

  140. Holy buckaroo banzai

    https://t.co/ldv5r251LF

    Narciso (d1f714)

  141. “The Housing Bubble was caused by too many mortgages given to people who couldn’t make the payments, in response to government regulators who pressed lenders to issue loans to high credit risk debtors.”

    You’re right about the first half, but wrong about the second.

    “Despite these caveats, we believe that this research
    should help to quell if not fully lay to rest the arguments
    that the CRA caused the current subprime lending boom
    by requiring banks to lend irresponsibly in low- and
    moderate-income areas. First, the data show that overall,
    lending to low- and moderate-income communities com-
    prised only a small share of total lending by CRA lenders,
    even during the height of subprime lending in California.
    Second, we find loans originated by lenders regulated
    under the CRA in general were significantly less likely
    to be in foreclosure than those originated by IMCs. This
    held true even after controlling for a wide variety of bor-
    rower and loan characteristics, including credit score,
    income, and whether or not the loan was higher priced.
    More important, we find that whether or not a loan was
    originated by a CRA lender within its assessment area is
    an even more important predictor of foreclosure. In gen-
    eral, loans made by CRA lenders within their assessment
    areas were half as likely to go into foreclosure as those
    made by IMCs (Table 2). While certainly not conclusive,
    this suggests that the CRA, and particularly its emphasis
    on loans made within a lender’s assessment area, helped
    to ensure responsible lending, even during a period of
    overall declines in underwriting standards.”

    (IMC = Independent Mortgage Company, not regulated by CRA)

    https://www.frbsf.org/community-development/files/cra_lending_during_subprime_meltdown.pdf

    Davethulhu (c2a30b)

  142. That’s what a cra stooge would say, there was never a market for this junk till the govt based on a bogus Boston fed study, pushed the banks to lower their standards they got greedy

    Narciso (d1f714)

  143. From my personal experience, it was unscrupulous mortgage brokers committing bank fraud for their 1% commission with such things as (and I saw this firsthand) faked financials with forged signatures.

    nk (dbc370)

  144. “So you believe the Democrats just elected a 35 seat majority in the House, and won the national House vote by 6 or 7%, with Mexican immigrants as their sole constituency?”

    All you need is a list of names, a willing political machine, a bunch of people who love the cheap labor and votes, and a positive attitude, and you too can have California take over the House Democratic Caucus!

    (And considering how disproportionately the Republicans who lost were of the NeverTrumper persuasion, I really don’t think you should be saying anything about what voters want and why!)

    Essence Thief (e54c20)

  145. Essense Thief is one of the numerous handles of the VPN troll. Ignore him.

    nk (dbc370)

  146. And Dave is for real, shirley, If the house had been able to wrangle the votes for the wall, and perhaps on the off chance repealed Obamacare you think they would have lost

    Narciso (d1f714)

  147. In more important news: Miley Cyrus Reveals What She Texted Ariana Grande After Pete Davidson Split (actual headline, Google it)

    This country is not a serious place.

    nk (dbc370)

  148. nk (dbc370) — 12/23/2018 @ 9:10 pm

    Well sheesh, don’t keep us in suspense – what’d she say?

    Dave (1bb933)

  149. Well you saw my last link, holder quartermadtering the Sinaloa cartel cannot be spoken of, so watch aquaman

    Narciso (d1f714)

  150. And btim amber heard,

    Narciso (d1f714)

  151. “there was never a market for this junk till the govt based on a bogus Boston fed study”

    Incorrect, again. There was an episode of This American Life, truly outstanding in my opinion, that goes over a lot of this. The episode name is “The Giant Pool of Money”. And it explains, along with a bunch of other things, why there was a “market for this junk”.

    https://www.thisamericanlife.org/355/transcript

    It’s too long for me to excerpt, but, basically, between 2000 and 2007, the pool of money invested in fixed income securities worldwide doubled, from $36 trillion to $70 trillion. However, the number of safe investments for this money did not also double. So financial innovations, like mortgage backed securities became popular. As demand for MBSs rose, there was increasingly less interest (on the part of issuers) on ensuring that the mortgages were sound, because they had no intention of holding onto them. And there certainly wasn’t any interest by the rating agencies to accurately rate the securities produced by these increasingly sketchy loans.

    Davethulhu (c2a30b)

  152. “From my personal experience, it was unscrupulous mortgage brokers committing bank fraud for their 1% commission with such things as (and I saw this firsthand) faked financials with forged signatures.”

    It’s this, plus fraud on the part of the companies bundling the loans into MBSs, and fraud on the part of the rating agencies in rating them AAA.

    Davethulhu (c2a30b)

  153. Use deductive reasoning squid ask why this is happening?

    Narciso (d1f714)

  154. Greed. I was not that far up the food chain, but I saw the banks shrugging off the mortgage brokers’ fraud because they were getting as much as 4% of the loan up front in points and junk fees.

    nk (dbc370)

  155. From my personal experience, it was unscrupulous mortgage brokers committing bank fraud for their 1% commission with such things as (and I saw this firsthand) faked financials with forged signatures.

    I don’t believe you should exclude banks either. I used to work at WAMU in the 20th century (starting in the Audit Department, then moving over to Special Credits) but kept in touch with colleagues now and again. Their once solid underwriting standards were tossed so they could generate more fees. They used to keep a third to half of their loans in their portfolio but they went away from that as well. I’m guessing a lot of other banks did the same, for competitive reasons.

    Paul Montagu (e1a1e3)

  156. I’m just going to leave this right here.

    https://althouse.blogspot.com/2018/12/how-about-you-just-admit-you-hate.html

    Merry Christmas Eve.

    NJRob (4d595c)

  157. How about moving the discussion to policy proposals that have a greater chance of getting 60 votes and improving the immigration situation:

    1. More and selective security fencing (supplement the already existing 651 miles of it);
    2. More cameras, sensors, drones to give better situational awareness;
    3. Stop catch and release – immediately deport;
    4. All aliens convicted of felony immediately deported after sentence served;
    5. Partner with states to more effectively leverage their resources and expertise;
    6. Promote more economic freedom in Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador;
    7. Improve E-verify and crack down on social security fraud; enforce stricter penalties on businesses that hire illegals;
    8. More resources for finding visa over-stays;
    9. Restrict federal security grants from sanctuary cities;
    10. Higher cap on H-1B visas;
    11. Effective temporary work program with actual return to home country tied to wages being paid;
    12. Supplement the 21,000 border agents;
    13. Permanent legal status for DREAMers vs. citizenship;
    14. Limit chain migration to the highly skilled or educated.

    The wall is just lazy thinking. Do things that are necessary to change the dynamic of illegal immigration.

    AJ_Liberty (165d19)

  158. No the wall is a concrete example, whereas most of these other items have been unmet promises for 30 years.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  159. Exactly Narciso.

    NJRob (b14ffd)

  160. The cotton bill included some of these reforms but it was stalled by the possums

    Narciso (d1f714)

  161. El Salvador is run by an ex guerilla, Honduras and Guatemala are run by center right govts

    Narciso (d1f714)

  162. Holy guacamole! Today I learned that libertarians have turned whining and complaining (they say “airing of grievances”) into a holiday which they call Festivus. But tell me, isn’t that what they do the whole rest of the year, anyway?

    nk (dbc370)

  163. Ayn rand will bring them a bag of coal.

    Narciso (d1f714)

  164. The lack of a sense of irony, the lack of self-awareness, the selling of the legalization of marijuana for the tax revenue it will generate, the horror, the horror!

    nk (dbc370)

  165. ugh i hate how they tax the crap out of everything chunkybutt taco-lick toni preckwinkle is a baleful and obscene woman who has no virtues

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  166. they didn’t need 60 votes to jam harvardtrash john roberts’s obamacare all up in it

    they’re very whimsical about needing these 60 votes

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  167. They did. They had 58 Democrats and two Communists in the Senate at the time. Obamacare passed 60-39.

    nk (dbc370)

  168. well ain’t that a kick in the pants

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  169. Or maybe it was one Communist and Joe Lieberman, I don’t want to look it up.

    nk (dbc370)

  170. Davethulhu (c2a30b) — 12/23/2018 @ 9:22 pm

    wasn’t any interest by the rating agencies to accurately rate the securities produced by these increasingly sketchy loans.

    This wasn’t the problem. Most of the rating is completely wrong, and all people buying and selling mortgages knew that. I mean how can you ignore differences in state levell of income tax? and the rest of the criteria were mstly irrelevent also. Experience told them that the only thing that really mattered was the credit rating of the borrower (for the first year) and the value of the house. If the value of the house stayed above the mortgage the holder of the mortgage although maybe not the borrower, was pretty close to being made whole.

    What went wrong was:

    1) They relied on the appraised value of houses.

    If someone couldn’t pay the mortgage a borrower would just simply sell the house! No one could reasonably agree to sell for an amount below the value of the mortgage. They would just wait until they could get a better price. So home prices couldn’t drop. Q.E.D.

    And if the value of the house rose, they’d refinance. Prices did tend to rise because, as time went on, banks made it easier and easier to qualify for a mortgage.

    2) Borrowers, when income was taken into account, were rated on their ability to pay back the current mortgage. But now people were being issued adjustable rate mortgages. The idea that a adjustable rate mortgage might reset higher was not taken into consideration. The market did not reflect the possibility that interest rates might rise in the future (which would mean all long term bond were priced wrong.)

    Now someone who actually lived through previous periods of rising and lowering interest rates should have known better. Bond prices never reflect what actually will happen. The Fed is too strong.

    So when the Federal Reserve Board began raising interest artes about 2004, the stage was set for a crash. Sales of houses slowed down, and then stopped around July or August 2007. Home prices, that, for very cogent and irrefutably logical reasons, could never fall, dropped – because of foreclosures.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  171. If it makes you happier, ten of them didn’t come back.

    nk (dbc370)

  172. AJ_Liberty (165d19) — 12/24/2018 @ 6:30 am

    3. Stop catch and release – immediately deport;

    There’s no agreement on that. The Democrats in fact are in favor of more catch and release, and if this goes into the next Congress, they will force an increase in catch and release into any apprpriation bill that goes through to the end of the fiscal year (although not into a continuing resolution that lasts till Feb. 8)

    https://www.immigrantjustice.org/eliminate-detention-bed-quota

    The bed quota prevents ICE from exercising discretion and expanding more efficient alternatives to detention (ATD) that would allow individuals who pose no risk to public safety to be released back to their families while awaiting immigration court hearings

    https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/rosa-delauro-lucille-roybal-allard-trump-close-tornillo-facility-migrant/

    Two key Democratic members of the House Appropriations Committee are demanding that the Trump administration close a controversial West Texas shelter, outside of El Paso, housing more than 2,000 migrant children. “There is no justification for keeping Tornillo open,” representatives Rosa DeLauro of Connecticut and Lucille Roybal-Allard of California said in a letter on Tuesday to Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar.

    Sammy Finkelman (102c75)

  173. Well how much pot does it take to make voting for polis, a good idea?

    Narciso (d1f714)

  174. i feel quote badly for Mr. Stevens

    and the sleazy corrupt DOJ didn’t even pay a price for that

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  175. oopers *quite* badly i mean

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  176. Alaska should not even be a state.

    nk (dbc370)

  177. i agree with that but it’s a nice practice state for tundra bunnies like sarah palin to play governor on without hurting anything

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  178. Right let Seattle run it. What could go wrong?

    Narciso (d1f714)

  179. ugh seattle people have nasty tattoos all up in it and they’re hostile to individual liberty

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  180. Today I learned that libertarians have turned whining and complaining (they say “airing of grievances”) into a holiday which they call Festivus.

    Very open-minded of you to participate by whining and complaining (we could say “airing your grievances”) about the holiday itself!

    Dave (1bb933)

  181. Think nothing of it. It’s not a special occasion for me. I ridicule libertarians year-round.

    nk (dbc370)

  182. don’t give up on festivus mr nk!

    Dave (1bb933)

  183. 10. Higher cap on H-1B visas;

    What? So that corporations have more opportunity to replace their American tech workers with low-paid workers from staffing firms? You obviously don’t understand how H1-B is used.

    Kevin M (cb624b)

  184. I may have been the the first to enunciate the libertarian litmus test on the internet: “Do you like a good pot-party with hookers?”

    That’s me being quoted, but xrlq’s site that he links to, where I had originally posted it, has been since retired.

    nk (dbc370)

  185. you obviously don’t understand the issues

    you should study more and buy a goat

    and teach the goat how to play parcheesi

    and you will never be lonely

    and you will never give up on Christmas

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  186. i once saw a man playing chess (not parcheesi) with his dog in the park

    i said sir that’s a pretty smart dog you have there

    i don’t think he’s so smart he said

    i’m beating him two games out of three

    nk (dbc370)

  187. ha good christmas pupper

    it sure is cold in the park today

    but sunny!

    it sure is sunny

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  188. Science Says That Dogs Can Tell If You’re A Good Or Bad Person http://www.dailyamericanbuzz.com/2018/12/science-says-that-dogs-can-tell-if.html

    Quantumbug (14ccab)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.5698 secs.