The Firehose Effect: The Challenge That Trump’s Non-Stop Craziness Poses to Media
I’m going to discuss the latest entry in the Trump Insanity Files today, but I’m doing it to make a larger point about the challenge that Trump’s constant craziness poses to people trying to cover him. I’m going to propose a term — the Firehose Effect — to explain this challenge. But let’s start our analysis with the latest story.
Remember Trump’s former personal physician, Harold Bornstein, the disreputable hippie doctor who wrote: “If elected, Mr. Trump, I can state unequivocally, will be the healthiest individual ever elected to the presidency.” Every sentient person in America noticed how much that sounded like Donald Trump — and if you believe Bornstein now, that’s because Trump dictated the letter:
When Dr. Harold Bornstein described in hyperbolic prose then-candidate Donald Trump’s health in 2015, the language he used was eerily similar to the style preferred by his patient.
It turns out the patient himself wrote it, according to Bornstein.
“He dictated that whole letter. I didn’t write that letter,” Bornstein told CNN on Tuesday. “I just made it up as I went along.”
Bornstein is not a particularly credible character, and I’m not just talking about his countercultural appearance. He previously claimed he had written the letter. The only solid conclusion we can draw from this episode is that it is more evidence that Trump surrounds himself with lunatics.
But if the story were indisputably true, it would not be out of character for Trump — and his fans would shrug it off, as they shrug off every story about him. Literally anything that you are currently criticizing anyone in public life for today, you would shrug off if it were about Trump. And so we are confronted with the phenomenon of journalists trying to explain, as they have tried to explain about so many stories before, that this story (if true) really says something alarming about Trump.
For example, Chris Cilizza has a piece today Here’s 4 reasons why Donald Trump faking a doctor’s note actually matters. The plaintive tone of that headline must be endlessly amusing to the fiercest Trump supporters, for whom neither this story nor any conceivable story could possibly matter. There is something pathetic in watching Cilizza pile up the reasons that any logical person would deem this is important, if true. The reasons are all perfectly rational and accurate. It’s another instance of the President of the United States being deceptive. He made Hillary’s health an issue. Trump will do or say anything to win no matter how unethical. Trump turns on literally everyone in the end. All quite true, and all stated in a tone I recognize well: Do you see what I’m saying now? I know the previous 500 stories about this guy’s insanity didn’t move you, but surely this one will!
A similar move is made by the people who ask the eternal question: what if it were Obama?
Can you *imagine* what the right’s reaction would be if it came out that Obama or Clinton had, during an election, dictated a letter about their health to their personal doctor who then released it knowing it was at best incomplete or, at worst, false. Can. you. imagine.
— Natasha Bertrand (@NatashaBertrand) May 2, 2018
Of course it would have been different for Obama, or any other politician in public life. And I think I know why. I’ll call it the Firehose Effect.
Basically, there is a firehose of totally insane stories coming out about this guy almost daily, and it has been that way now for years. When you are barraged with a daily firehose of insanity, sometimes all you want is to turn the hose off.
The Scott Adams types who are insistent on characterizing Trump’s 24/7 buffoonery as genius will love this concession: maybe this is a sort of counterintuitive genius. The strategy is to simply act like the world’s biggest ass in every way for 71 years, and then people will get to the point where literally no story can touch you, because they have heard it all before.
if Trump were 1/10 as bad as he is, or 1/100 as bad, arguably there would be more time to discuss each individual crazy thing that comes out about him. There are any number of stories about him that would have been disqualifying for anyone else. Complaining about immigrant labor hurting Americans while going out of his way to employ immigrants. Praising the massacre at Tiananmen Square. Bursting into the dressing room of teenaged pageant contestants who were working for him to catch them naked. Paying porn stars six figures not to disclose that he had slept with them shortly after his son was born. For me, the breaking point was when tapes emerged of the guy calling up journalists pretending to be someone else (“John Barron” or some kind of nonsense). The evidence was overwhelming that it was him — and even though it had happened years before, he blatantly lied about it on “Fox & Friends” as a presidential candidate.
And people shrugged. That’s the moment when I felt the world had gone insane.
I figured his candidacy was going to blow up when he was confronted about it by a major news figure like Jake Tapper and Chris Wallace — someone who would be relentless in pressing him on how he could possibly claim this wasn’t him. But it never happened. Some other crazy story came flying out of the firehose and the media ran and chased that like dogs chasing cars. This brazen and laughable and blatant lie never even came up in any of the debates.
So now, a story comes out saying that Trump dictated an absurd-sounding letter for Doctor Counterculture to transcribe and sign his name to — and nobody cares. We’ve all become desensitized to the lunacy, to the point where it seems like the President of the United States is untouchable.
What is the media supposed to do in this environment? What am I supposed to do? If evidence emerges that the president has engaged in pathologically grandiose and deceptive behavior, am I supposed to ignore it?
It’s tough to ignore stuff like this. Look: I wanted to talk about James Comey this morning. I wanted to talk about his crazy recent claim that Hillary Clinton was “deeply enmeshed in the rule of law.” But this doctor story is far crazier and more newsworthy and interesting to talk about. Because it’s just so nutty.
And, as desensitized to these stories as you are, you still want to read them. There, I said it. Somehow, at the same time, you’re tired of stories about Trump, and yet all you want to talk about is Trump. You gain positive enjoyment from reading these stories, and then complaining that I am writing about them.
I know this because I have tried not writing about Trump in the past, and people were uninterested in those posts. In late November 2015, I made a personal decision to stop writing about Donald Trump. I believed he was getting too much media attention and I wanted to counteract it in my own small way. I wrote about the election, but I did not mention Trump directly. I kept this up, I believe, throughout December 2015.
I’ve gone back this morning and looked at the headlines of my posts from December 2015 and the number of comments on the posts. Aside from a handful of posts about hot-button issues like JVW’s breaking story on the San Bernardino shootings, it was rare for posts to get over 100 comments. The ones that did were the ones that came closest to discussing Trump — like posts about Ted Cruz’s rejection of any notion of banning all Muslims from entering the U.S. I didn’t mention Trump by name or his own proposed Muslim ban; I just said that Cruz rejected any such policy. And a flood of comments came into that post — and they were all talking about Trump and his policy. What a relief! the numbers said. Finally we can talk about Trump!
As I scroll down my page this morning, I see posts where Trump are currently garnering over 700 comments in one case, and over 300, in another.
I honestly don’t know what to do about this. I know that people like me, who believe that Trump is unfit for office, morally, intellectually, and temperamentally, are concerned with the willingness of his supporters to cast aside norms, and disparage entire institutions such as the FBI in service of a single man. We worry about how Trump will behave in a crisis, given his authoritarian tendencies as shown by his past praise for dictators. But nothing we say seems to matter. If we seem frustrated at times, that’s why.
It’s the Firehose Effect. And I’m in the curious position of both wielding one of the hoses and feeling forced to drink from it at the same time. I’m not really sure what to do about it. My stance in the past has always been to just keep soldiering on — saying what I believe and standing for the principles that the Republican party used to stand for.
I’m not sure what else I can do.
One thing that I have noticed is that there is great comfort in realizing that there are other people out there who feel the way you do. Since the RedState firings, we have some new readers and commenters here (hi guys!), and they are among the most sensible people I have met on the Internet. Similarly I recently discovered a podcaster named Sam Harris, who shares my views about Trump almost to the letter and is very well-spoken. It’s nice to know that there are people out there who have the same views about this president as I have, and yet are not dyed-in-the-wool leftists who want to use government to fix every wrong. I seek such people out now, and try to ignore the rest. (Side note: I found Harris as a result of this article in National Review, about Harris’s being smeared by Ezra Klein for standing up for Charles Murray. Harris is one of the those free thinkers who will infuriate you when he talks about Christianity or climate change, but will thrill you when he defends Murray against politically incorrect attacks or joins with Bill Maher to discuss the dangers of radical Islam.)
As those people are a comfort to me, I try to be a comfort to them. So I keep saying exactly what I believe — not filtering it to try to be persuasive or reasonable or kind to the president’s most enthusiastic supporters — because the best way to attract like-minded people is to say precisely what you think. There may be very few people who are willing to both stand for conservative principles and yet reject a moral monster like Trump. But those people are very special to me. I owe it to them not to moderate my beliefs to appeal to wider group of people. This might lose me a gig at this or that Web site, or cost me a bunch of readers here. But I don’t have to censor myself, and the new friends I make — and especially the old friends I retain — are pearls. They’re far more valuable to me than hordes of partisans.
So: I guess the orders are to march ahead just as before.
I still would welcome advice from my new and old friends about what to do with this firehose.
[Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.]
Ding.
Patterico (115b1f) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:55 am“I still would welcome advice from my new and old friends about what to do with this firehose.”
As someone who’s own blogging career was all too brief and none too successful, I’m not sure I am in a position to give you advice. I will just say that coming here and joining your commentariat has been a breath of fresh air, particularly since you pointed me to that blocking script.
You can put me in the “Keep Calm and Carry On” column. 😉
Gryph (08c844) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:58 amCourage and conviction means staying true to yourself when times are tough. You have courage and conviction.
And I think the answer to Trump’s flaws is to encourage him to delegate policy-making and focus on what he does best — marketing and selling himself.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:59 am3. That’s what all politicians do well by necessity. His ability to market and sell himself is not a strength that makes Trump stand out from any other politician in the 545.
Gryph (08c844) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:00 amhe seems healthy enough to me
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:02 amOh and Pat? I’d be happy to submit a few articles/columns that have nothing to do with Trump. Would that help?
Gryph (08c844) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:02 amFirehose Effect is a good way to describe the daily revelations of corruption at the Nazi FBI and the dirty CIA and the unbelievably sleazy Rosytwat DOJ
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:07 amHave we seen Trump’s original birth certificate? Has he ever renounced his British citizenship?
nk (dbc370) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:07 amLiterally anything that you are currently criticizing anyone in public life for today, you would shrug off if it were about Trump.
If only we had the full weight of federal law enforcement behind us, the one-sided criticism could actually materialize into, say, FISA warrants and a special counsel.
As it is, such one-sided abuse of power goes in the other direction and the likes of Cilizza and Tapper couldn’t give a rat’s ass.
Let’s call it the Fire Hoser Effect.
random viking (6a54c2) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:07 amNo, because by writing an article that has nothing to do with Trump, you prove that you hate Trump with every fiber of your being, and your Trump hatred will infect every word.
(I shouldn’t have to say “just kidding”, but I was)
Chuck Bartowski (bc1c71) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:08 amDeclare your candidacy for the 2020 presidential nomination.
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:14 amCompletely leaving politics out of it, what you’re referring to is a systemic effect with different names in different fields. The mechanics of action are that a given system can only process so many somethings per unit of time.
In email, the problem source was commercial interests gaining access to a too-cheap-to-meter channel. In traffic, the problems are more diffuse. In all problems of this sort, the solution is finding a way to redirect a portion of the volume based on some criteria. Spam is comparatively easy in this respect – after a few years (thousands of work-years, but), from the users’ perspective the problem was mostly contained. (We may be unhappy with the ones that get through, but email still works.) Traffic is much harder, but traffic engineers have a lot of tricks that work well until volume completely overwhelms the system. Ultimately the only fix for that is to be smarter about where we build to work and live.
The Crazy-Trump problem will be solved when we find a way to segment a portion of the bad behavior off so that human minds can cogitate on the important ones. We can’t expect the press to help – for whatever set of reasons (and we all have our pet ones), major journalism in this country isn’t wired to help normal people determine what is important in this context. So we need our own filters.
Forget Trump, his success is spawning a thousand wannabes, and the tactic is somewhat politically neutral – Trump’s technique obviously works better on people like Evangelicals, but there’s no reason different versions couldn’t be tuned to any audience. This will continue until we find a defense – welcome, again, to New Normal.
fizzle (faad11) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:18 amI disagree. Just because some of us don’t begin and end each day with some dumbass anti Trump diatribe does not mean we don’t see trumps flaws. It means we don’t let them own us like they own the left. I personally don’t see Trump as a “moral monster”. That’s the type of description I reserve for the likes of Hitler, Pol Pot or Stalin, not an immoral, imperfect dolt like Trump.
But to make a point, so what? What are you going to do beside b!tch and moan about every idiotic thing Trumps Tweets or does? You gonna impeach him? Or are you going to do what others will do and wait till the next election and try and vote him out? Then what? You think having a leftist in the WH is not going to be an actual moral monster?
The only thing all this does is give aide and comfort to those on the left who would love to bring down Trump just like you would. But they will also bring down the Republic with him. So if we’re not going to drive him from office I suggest we direct our attention toward winning and stopping the left from really cancelling the Constitution. Forever.
Rev.Hoagie (1b0402) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:33 amGreat post, though. As you do about 90% of time, it expresses my own exasperation eloquently.
You especially hit the nail on the head when you said that any one of the countless sordid, unethical things Trump has done would be (and is, for me) disqualifying.
I remember early in the GOP primary campaign, when it started to become clear that Trump would actually be a contender. I thought to myself – this guy is generating excitement, he might attract some democrats. I sincerely asked myself: is there any way I could support this guy? After about 15 minutes of researching and reading stuff he had recently said during the campaign, like his insults of PoWs, and his total ignorance of every policy issue, and his shameless lying about everything, I had my answer. No. Hell no. This was not a guy I could support, in fact, it was a guy who I had to oppose.
Nothing that has happened since has changed that determination, in fact, it been reinforced a hundred-fold or a thousand-fold by all the unethical, evil things the guy has done since then. For all the outrages against truth and decency that Trump has committed since the Fall of 2015, those are on top of what he had already done to make it impossible for me to support him.
So yes, a firehose is a very apt analogy. It’s a firehose spraying toxic fecal matter, and he’s covering the party of Lincoln and the greatest country in the world with it.
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:36 am13. For my lifetime (approaching 40 years), the constitution has already effectively been a dead letter. 95% of what government does, and pretty damn close to 100% of what it spends is blatantly unconsitutional. I can say this without reservation or hesitation because THERE IS NO AUTHORIZATION FOR OUR CURRENT MODEL OF GOVERNMENT IN THE CONSTITUTION.
So don’t preach to me about saving what’s left of the constitution, Trump humper. Whatever good Trump has done or can do from his Oval Office listening post can and WILL be undone by subsequent administrations. And the sooner you get that through your thick calvarium, the sooner we can discuss what really needs to be done to RESTORE the constitution.
/RANT
Gryph (08c844) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:38 amThis is a tactic of the left. Barrage the culture and the polity on as many fronts with as many “advances” as possible. Obama did this across the government with a politicization never before seen – not even by FDR.
There is no easy solution or counter. We are as the Little Dutch Boy and the dykes. One finger at a time. One thing that can make it easier on an individual is a concentration on a solution one knows best, or well. Just keep plugging a particular type of hole.
In the end, Google and Facebook (the ultimate firehoses) will win. Our choice is whether to fight a good fight, or not.
Ed from SFV (291f4c) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:41 amDuring the last six years of Obama’s administration, after he lost the House in 2010, he accomplished nothing of any real significance.
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:49 amSo Chris Harris is a leftist that hates religion, but worships at the altar of man made climate change, but he’s a fellow traveller because he hates Trump and stood up for free speech once. Sounds like Bill Maher.
NJRob (408c95) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:52 amSam Harris.*
NJRob (408c95) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:53 amWhat to do about the fire hose?
Look, you don’t HAVE TO respond. Respond where your response might serve some of purpose, achieve some sort of goal, change someone’s mind. Responding because “I am a blogger and must comment” is silly. respond when you have something to say, something to add to the conversation. Some insight.
Decide what is personal, unseemly, tasteless, boring, irrelevant, etc. and ignore it. The minute I read “Trump’s doctor…” I was immediately not interested. Why? because the story will be about Trump actually being not healthy, or the doctor lying, or being a flake. What other possible story would there be about Trump’s doctor? Why else would anyone ever give a crap?
Also note that the media is working overtime, night and day, to find new and more interesting ways to hate on trump. You don’t have to be like them. You certainly don’t have to trust them.
The greatest weapon against the left, the most powerful words in the English language, the phrase they have no response to is this “So what?” Use that more often. I completely agree with Rev. Hoagie. Don’t let Trump/the media rent space in your head for free.
Cassandra (a815b9) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:58 amHoagie and Ed are both right in their own words.
Obama did much more lasting damage to our nation than anything Trump has, but didn’t get 1/10 the vitriol from those on here who take on Trump day after day. With Obama it was business. With Trump it’s personal.
Why is that?
NJRob (408c95) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:01 am“Can you *imagine* what the right’s reaction would be if it came out that Obama or Clinton had, during an election, dictated a letter about their health to their personal doctor who then released it knowing it was at best incomplete or, at worst, false. Can. you. imagine.”
Can you imagine that didn’t happen? Or do you think Obama the secret smoker and Hillary the concussion prone/fainting heavy drinker were actually in tip top health?
Oh, and about Kennedy…
Some people are just such suckers.
Cassandra (a815b9) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:04 amIMO, Bill Maher has his own Firehose Effect. He spouts the most intemperate, vile, counter-conservative tripe I have ever heard from someone of national prominence. I don’t know if it has been this way for all of his life, like you claim for Trump, but it certainly has been that way for as long as he has been sharing his views.
He has one thing going for him. His view on radical Islam. Because of that view, Sam Harris and I, extend an olive branch to Maher and overlook his incorrigible past and hope that the common ground will help improve dialog in the future. It never does with Maher, but we accept it and never renounce Maher out of whole cloth. Instead, we give him another chance.
Maybe trying the same with Trump would be helpful. You can even start with the common ground he and Maher share; radical Islam. I wouldn’t pick abortion because Trump grew up on that subject, Maher refuses to change.
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:07 amOver a year into the new presidency… The outcomes of national political races are binary…
Trump or Clinton.
Ended up with Trump.
Move on.
jwt4412 (1af51f) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:08 amTrump shills cannot help but insult people, but look at what you’re saying. You’re fainting over Obama’s poor health because he apparently smoked once in a while. Obama also ate properly and exercised properly.
But like with every single example of Trump being dishonest, you guys reply with “But democrats!” You make no effort to defend that it’s OK to lie to the American people. And it isn’t. I do not care what Hillary did.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:10 ammr. president the trump is as straight as a corkscrew but he is my daddy my sugar daddy to be exact who gives me all the goodies i want and that’s why i love him so who cares
nk (dbc370) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:11 amAgreed.
Because a person’s moral principles are more fundamental and important than their political principles.
An immoral, dishonest person’s political principles and commitments are worth nothing, because they are subject to change without notice, whenever it’s convenient.
Trump’s feigned/temporary/transactional commitment to conservative policies discredits those policies by association.
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:20 amdisparage entire institutions such as the FBI in service of a single man
nobody’s disparaged the FBI more than the trashy and fascist behavior of the men and women of the fbi
and they were trashy long before they set sights on President Trump
we just didn’t know the extent of it until now
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:22 amApparently happyfeet has taken nk hostage, and is hoping to do a prisoner swap for narciso…
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:23 amI thought it was a very fair summary of all the pro-Trump comments ever posted on this site, Mr. Dave.
nk (dbc370) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:26 amspeaking of daddies here’s a fun gift for new ones
you can buy it using the internet and you don’t even have to give amazon turdlord jeff bezos any of your monies yay america
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:30 ami tried to go say hi to Mr. narciso but i think I’m banned there
it must be from forever ago but google doesn’t hardly have any comments from me over there and what I can find is very anodyne
so somebody else will have to rescue Mr. narciso
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:33 amNo, at best, Trump’s health is fine and the letter, though hyperbolic, is true on the facts. Unless you are disturbed that the doctor didn’t include the bit about proscribing Propecia and waited until later to blab to the press about it.
And, what’s the bad part of Trump dictating a letter? Most doctors probably don’t have experience writing letters for release to the media about a presidential candidate’s health. Asking their patient what the letter should say seems to me to be a natural question. At that point, it’s the job of the doctor to write a letter that is acceptable to both the patient and the doctor. The doctor is going to sign his name to it, so obviously what he is signing should be true. It should also be acceptable to the patient as far as how much of his personal medical history is revealed.
No, the only thing this reveals is the lack of ethics by the doctor. He had no business discussing the Propecia prescription publicly, nor the manner in which the letter came to be written.
Anon Y. Mous (6cc438) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:35 amBreaking- Ty Cobb benched; now batting for Team Trump, Emmet Flood.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:37 amSam Harris and others discussing abortion:
https://youtu.be/ZJCN2W7DkAY
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:43 amAll you lawyerly Trump haters would fit in on the Big Island, this place is filled with your ilk.
mg (9e54f8) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:44 amThank the lord I enjoy my life.
On the other hand, Hillary’s problems were routinely covered up by the media.
AZ Bob (9a6ada) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:48 amI just hope I’m as healthy as Trump when I’m his age.
the Bas (3bcea0) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:54 amBoy Scouts now changing their name. Refuting all studies that show separation of sexes for education/activities for certain age groups is best, the lawyers know a better way.
Goddamn teh lawyerman.
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:56 amThere is a reason Red State asked Patterico to post on its main page, and that is because Patterico has had an impact outside the pages of his blog. Maybe that’s why Trump supporters care so much about what he thinks and says.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:59 amC-130 military plane crashes in Georgia
something’s broken
that was today
this is from a month ago:
String of US military aircraft crashes in 2018 continues deadly trend
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:02 amHow many Trump supporters visit here and comment, DRJ?
Is it a representative example of having an impact on a large group of the nation’s population or some tiny group that wanders the internet with nothing better to do?
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:03 amThat is unfortunate, Haiku, but the Executive Board did this:
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:04 amGood entry as usual but your link to the article about 4 reasons why it matters just takes us to he cnn article announcing the dictation. Here’s the link. https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/02/politics/harold-bornstein-donald-trump-health/index.html
Roberta Schwartz (00cadb) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:05 amI’d say the Chicago Black Sox are a better metaphor for Trump’s legal team anyway.
Although I think more than eight of them may already be under investigation…
That said, hiring a lawyer with experience in a presidential impeachment is an uncharacteristically smart legal move.
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:07 am43… they did it to avoid the lawsuits that were coming their way and you know that.
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:12 amThey’d be sued until bled dry.
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:13 amYou tell me.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:14 amThat is a weird link, DRJ. It lists Tillerson as part of the 2011 board and doesn’t list him under the Executive Committee tab. Even though the part you quoted suggests otherwise.
I wonder what is up with that?
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:14 amThe Boy Scouts were sued frequently in the past over various things, including sexual abuse, and they stayed with their mission. Admitting girls was the big change. Calling themselves Scouts USA instead of Boy Scouts USA isn’t.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:17 amThe elves that magically keep every page of Wikipedia up-to-date went on strike?
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:18 amYou tell me.
Sure. I don’t think the millions of Trump supporters that didn’t want the Dems to win in 2016 give a damn about RedState. Anything good or bad that happened there doesn’t affect their next move.
I think a tiny group of people want to trash Trump no matter what and an even tinier group manages to give them fits about it.
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:19 amIf Trump could corrupt one physician…
Paul Montagu (e6130e) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:20 amThis was a test post at RedState, seeing how the powers-that-be respond.
Hey it’s Rex Tillerson again. He gets around.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:23 amI’m curious, how did you get your account problem fixed? There is no customer or technical service link that I could find.
My account there has been “suspended” for no apparent reason for ages. Before that, the last time I could log in, it wouldn’t give me diary access.
Like you, I think I made one mildly-worded comment critical of Trump (mildly-worded meaning no profanity or breach of decorum – the criticism was not mild) in reply to someone else’s post that was also critical of Trump.
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:27 ambuduh, I think DRJ was making a play on words and you may want to reconsider her comment.
But for every populist justification for Trump support, it’s very important to remember that millions more voters opposed Trump than supported him. Every time one of you guys say that he won so who cares what his critics think, you are actually highlighting that Trump won a technicality if ever there was one. Most voters voted against him, and Trump only sits in the Oval Office because Americans greatly value the rule of law and peaceful transitions of power. He can’t really say he won because Americans want him to lead us, which we do not.
I agree most of the voters do not care much about Redstate, but I don’t think this is relevant. The GOP’s cliquish need to crush conservative opinion is actually a huge part of the problem with our country. The fact that most Americans aren’t that interested in reading a contrary political opinion is educational and cultural, the real problems with our country, and the real reason we had to choose between Hillary and Trump. Honestly there needs to be a ‘Neither’ choice so we can do the whole process over again, with both major parties excluded from ballot access, when our political parties fail us. What we have now is basically a con.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:28 amThat isn’t what you asked but hopefully you feel better saying it.
As for the Wiki page, I don’t know for sure but it appears past Boy Scout presidents remain on the Executive Board after their terms end. I think Tillerson was President in 2010-2012 and has been on the Board since 2013.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:29 amC-130 military plane crashes in Georgia
Those things are constantly buzzing our house in the GA mountains. I’ve sat on my porch and watched them come in low off the lake and fly right over my head at tree-top level. Hmm….
Skorcher (5b282a) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:31 amI’ve never said that.
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:32 amIf you knew what I asked then you are capable of answering it.
Give it a shot.
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:34 amCommunication with you appears to be extremely difficult. I’ll stop worrying about your comments from here on out.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:34 amGood post, btw. I tried to comment, but my user account has been “disabled” (not “suspended”, fwiw).
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:36 amI think streiff suspended all diary activity until yesterday, when I noticed some new diaries from others, and then I saw the “+ New” button on the front page.
Paul Montagu (e6130e) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:38 amYou were supposed to stop worrying about it when you treated me horribly the 1st time you spoke to me. I figured you, like Sam Harris, were attempting something greater, so I responded to this 2nd time you addressed me.
Now that I have explained, again, that you have made an incorrect assumption it appears we are back to where we were before you 1st talked to me. I can live with that.
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:38 amCalling themselves Scouts USA instead of Boy Scouts USA isn’t.
I seem to recall that change happened back in the 1970’s as an appeal to black youth. The theory was that they weren’t joining BSA because they took offense at the word “boy”.
Skorcher (5b282a) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:41 amBuDuh said:
I have no idea. That’s why I said “You tell me.” And this is what you said:
I still have no idea how many Trump supporters visit Patterico.com and comment. But there are some, right?
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:41 amEvents beyond our shores -short of an asteroid strike- can change the climate of the times, but until then, you’ll just have to endure this. Americans don’t want to be governed; they wish to be entertained.
And this guy has been one helluva show so far; the man everybody loves or loves to hate; America’s bad boy; the nation’s JR Ewing. It just doesn’t matter which side you advocate. Have you been bored? Or missed a daily episode? Do you wait for the cliffhanging decisions on war and peace or collusion? Do you gawk at the parade of floozies, guffaw at the mangled syntax and chuckle at the carnival barking bluster? My God, this guy makes Reagan actually look like the B-movie actor he was. And the only individual who might possibly beat him at his own game is– Oprah Winfrey.
This is the celebrity culture we’ve created.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:43 amDave, actually I should’ve checked my email. Streiff sent one to all the diarists yesterday morning that he turned them back on. Thanks for the nice feedback.
Paul Montagu (e6130e) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:44 amOk. So it does appear that I answered the questions.
Tiny groups.
And I do believe that a tiny group of people has some people within the group.
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:45 amAs you know, BuDuh, I decided not to talk to you anymore a few days ago. You seemed more amiable today so I gave it another try. Big mistake but that’s on me and it won’t happen again.
As you said to Dustin, you can live with that and so can I.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:45 amI pointed out you were a troll (which you were) and asked you if you changed your name and we had spoken before, at which point you acted… like you’re acting now. You’re acting like a crazy and extremely sensitive person. As usual, I was polite but direct.
You never answered that question, same as in this thread. You ignored everything I said and think the conversation should be about you and what a victim you are.
But no, I don’t recall saying I was going to ignore you.
You’re vaguely claiming you never used another handle to comment here, but you’re doing it like a weasel and not saying this directly, because you are lying.
Yeah, ignoring you is the right decision.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:46 amYou again?
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:48 amAnother day, another brazen threat to the rule of law. Trump just posted a hate tweet lashing out at his own Justice Department:
Can he really be this stupid? Congress leaks like a sieve, and with total immunity. Any material leaked by congress could compromise ongoing investigations and allow law-breakers to skate.
Which is of course exactly what he wants to happen.
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:51 am“Trump shills cannot help but insult people, but look at what you’re saying. You’re fainting over Obama’s poor health because he apparently smoked once in a while. Obama also ate properly and exercised properly. But like with every single example of Trump being dishonest, you guys reply with “But democrats!” You make no effort to defend that it’s OK to lie to the American people. And it isn’t. I do not care what Hillary did. Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:10 am”
So much stupid packed so tightly.
Calling you a sucker is not an insult, it is a recognition that you are having your pocket picket, you are being robbed, you are falling for a scam. The scam in this case s that Trump is somehow different than anything and everything that came before.
I’m not “fainting over Obama” I’m pointing out that lying about your health is a time honored tradition. I point to Obama and Hillary because they are recent, but look at McCain. I suspect Romney was well, but Reagan, I don’t think he had a sudden onset of Alzheimer’s six months after he left office – no doubt he had symptoms while still in office. And W was a former alcoholic, probably not completely well from that.
Most people to this day don’t know FDR was crippled and in a wheelchair.
Sucker.
Cassandra (a815b9) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:58 amHere:
And here is where I explain how your “question” wasn’t a question:
And all that took place in the middle of a civilized conversation that Leviticus and I were having.
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:58 amAnd during the Obama administration, your response to Obama’s dishonesty and scandals was also “who cares, because it’s no different from everything that came before” too, right?
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 11:09 amPatterico: You have a problem with “norms”. You consider the FBI a bunch of good guys as if this is gospel and not to be denied. Screwing with them, then, means you’re really a bad guy.
Richard Aubrey (10ef71) — 5/2/2018 @ 11:18 amThis is the bunch that withheld exculpatory evidence on Ted Stevens. Tried to frame Richard Jewell. Massacred the innocent at Ruby Ridge and Waco. Gave Noor a pass because his old man was an informant. Drove one man to suicide over the anthrax investigation and treated another so badly that the fed settled for $6 mill and they still don’t know who did it. Russian intel gave them the Tsarnaev clan. A concerned citizen called about the Cruz kid in Broward County and the feebs couldn’t be bothered to pass it on. That Broward wouldn’t have done jack doesn’t retroactively excuse the feebs. Can’t get straight with the Army who told who what when about Hasan. Told a couple of guys to tear up Texas and, when they tried, fled the art show in Garland. Took a bogus prosecution on the White House travel office in order to let others know not to get crossways with the Clinton machine.
Somebody tried to get agents to change their 302 after talking to Flynn so they could get him in a perjury trap nobody actually believes happened. He’s out a mill and his house and Trump haters are likely giggling at what happens when the DoJ goes after Trump associates. That they’re not actually guilty adds piquancy, I am certain.
Patterico, you do your argument no good by insisting we believe, as you do, that resisting the FBI is prima facie evidence of moral failings.
She said calling people sucker isn’t an insult. Trump’s done something to the right’s psyche where lies flow like water.
It’s impossible to dialogue with someone who pretends they didn’t mean what they said. And it’s impossible to talk about politics with someone who believes both
A) the other party is demonically evil and has committed every possible sin
B) anything the other party does is OK for my party to do
There’s nothing Trump can do that they won’t respond to with “Democrats!” Of course, as soon as it’s time to criticize democrats, anything the GOP did wrong is irrelevant.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 11:22 amIt’s rare that someone defends Flynn because Flynn pled guilty. But you’re right that many in our federal government have made some huge mistakes. You’re right to be skeptical of feds. I don’t understand how this leads you to defend a fed who was dishonest.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 11:25 am73. That’s an excellent, and yet troubling point Dave. +1
Tillman (a95660) — 5/2/2018 @ 11:27 amBreaking- Ty Cobb benched; now batting for Team Trump, Emmet Flood.
Ha, ha, ha! No real attorney can stand to be Trump’s attorney for long. Sooner or later the ethical problems become insoluble. That’s why he ends up with jumped-up errand boys with law licenses like Michael Cohen who get eaten alive when they go up against halfway competent lawyers.
nk (dbc370) — 5/2/2018 @ 11:41 amfeets,
If you are talking about being banned from “that other web site” to find narciso, reconsider please and try again. There only has been one person banned — ever — and he migrated over here for a while. No, the typepad host is very quirky, and sometimes posts just get swallowed and never appear. The regulars call it “typhuspad.” It appears to be random, and it is nothing personal.
Passing Through (72e560) — 5/2/2018 @ 11:41 amoh sure will thank you
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 11:46 amDustin, you should go back to the months before the election, when you declared you would vote for Hillary, and review your dire predictions on how Trump would govern as president. NONE of them were correct.
Trump has been great for the economy, great on immigration, great on foreign policy, great for the military, great on judges, and great at exposing the rot of the deep state. Given that, whatever flaws the man had as a flamboyant billionaire private citizen aren’t important to those of us that were horrified by the left’s advancement of the fundamental transformation of our beloved republic.
So you nevertrumpers can complain until you are blue in the face about how unfit the man is, it will have no more effect than your silly predictions back when. We who want to MAGA take no stock in the blathering of the allies of the left. Or the moral protestations of those who told us there was no difference between Trump and Hillary (as even Patterico did) and no distinction between the partisans of those on the left and those on the right.
the Bas (3bcea0) — 5/2/2018 @ 11:48 amPatterico, I just wanted to drop you a quick note to say that I really appreciate your writing. Although i don’t always agree with you I’ve found you to be intellectually honest, thoughtful and willing to engage in good faith far more often than not. I started reading Redstate when you started publishing there and stayed for some of the other writers. I’m sure I’m not alone in that I hope that you continue to blog as frequently as you do.
Time123 (b4d075) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:01 pmCan you quote me saying this, or are you lying?
They were quite accurate. Really, the only thing Trump did that is good is that he doesn’t care about judicial nominations, so he’s let other people do that for him. These nominations are great.
Otherwise, I was right to say Trump’s promises on immigration would be broken. They have been. I was right to say Trump’s promise to end Obamacare would be broken. It was. I was right to say Trump would break his promise to balance the budget. Our deficit is terrible. I was right to say Trump would be dishonest and scandalized his entire time in office. So far, he’s been lying a lot and his staff seem to plead guilty to crimes of moral turpitude, and the world considers him to be bad at everything.
In fact, Trump’s foreign policy success so far is to copy Madeline Albright’s strategy on North Korea. It’s a failure, but we won’t have ‘proof’ that North Korea is lying until they test another nuclear weapon.
You’re the ally of the left. You’re the ally of an unethical federal government that governs by fiat, imposes Obamacare, and leaves us in extreme debt. If that’s not the left, then what is? America is great already, and its greatness has nothing to do with our politicians. If you hate America so much, just go to Russia already.
BTW, like I asked the other troll: have you commented here under another handle? If so, why did you change your name? Did you destroy your reputation?
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:09 pmDave: Can he really be this stupid? Congress leaks like a sieve, and with total immunity. Any material leaked by congress could compromise ongoing investigations and allow law-breakers to skate.
The meme of the anti-Trumpers on this site regarding the Nunes memo was #ReleaseTheDocumentation, was it not?
So, Trump pushes for exactly that and now it’s “another brazen threat to the rule of law.”
My god, this anti-Trumper bit never gets old.
random viking (45621b) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:21 pm“Can you quote me saying this, or are you lying?”
Are you going on record as denying it? My internet skills are limited, but I’m sure someone could find it. DRJ?
the Bas (3bcea0) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:22 pmAnd during the Obama administration, your response to Obama’s dishonesty and scandals was also “who cares, because it’s no different from everything that came before” too, right? Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 11:09 am
Well, I cared a lot. But the public and media decided “meh”. I realized my caring didn’t change a damn thing. So this time I decided to fool them. I’ll go “meh” when the public and media freak out. I feel I am growing as a person.
Perhaps it is outrage exhaustion. Perhaps I don’t really believe everything I am being told. Perhaps I’ve just decided to enjoy the many conservative fruits trump seems to be shaking from the tree, and stop questioning where they are coming from. Perhaps I’ve decided the outrage game is just what trump wants, or the media wants, or the democrats want. I don’t want to play that game anymore. Perhaps I’ve just decided I don’t have a lot of better options at the moment, and hope to just ride this horse till a better one comes along.
Cassandra (a815b9) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:23 pmDustin. Surely you know better. Flynn was out of money and his son was under threat. So he copped a plea. How on Earth do you think the feds get a KGB-like rate of convictions/pleas?
Richard Aubrey (10ef71) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:31 pmSounds like a declaration to me. Now the argument will be over who “Beelzebub” represented to the individuals that said it.
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:32 pmPatterico, your essay is an important one. Notice how the over the top types have already derailed your comment section, proving your point.
I believe that the gazillion posts you get are from very argumentative people and trolls…and I would ask you to reflect on the substance of those threads, compared to the the essay you originally posted.
They want THUNDERDOME. Two trolls enter, one troll leaves.
https://youtu.be/pHU6K47qgc8
Except no one actually gets hurt. Well, other than calm discourse and careful thought.
Look at the number of times your own point of view has been misrepresented—all to turn a topic into a bumper sticker slogan to hit you over the head with.
Maybe it’s evolutionary: sort of a version of the flight or fight response.
But I do think that DJT understands the current media ecology, and he knows perfectly well that his approach wearies regular people, and gets either end of the spectrum furious. His supporters get very over the top supportive. And his detractors race to the other end.
I agree that creating a place where people can discuss things calmly is important. For me, its finding a place where I can read and think about issues with more nuance than I see every day on campus. So I’m irritable that some people are turning this environment into a trollfest. But that’s because I work in a nest of trolls.
Funny thing: lots of people on campus are middle of the road, or at least polite. They feel that they cannot talk or express themselves because of the crazies. Either they get their careers destroyed by people lying about them, or they just keep quietly to themselves. Either way, they get shouted down.
So I encourage you to create a place where folks can disagree without being jackwagons about it. Because as it stands, the extremists rule right now. In either direction.
Thanks again for a good post. Firehose indeed. Very true.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:32 pmAs a long time Scout family and the mom of an Eagle Scout I may not 100% agree with the Scouts decision but I understand it. My grandson is currently working on his first class rank and his sister is doing exactly what my own daughters did. Shadowing the brother and learning alongside him without the benefit of the organization. I tried Girl Scouts with my 3 girls but could not embrace the liberal anti-God agenda of the organization so my daughters just did the Boy Scout program on their own. I would have welcomed an opportunity to have the girls in the Boy Scout organization. The Scouts are exploring different options as how this is going to look, separate patrols or troops or ? Girls in Boy Scouts is not new. They’ve been in the Explorer program for many years. I did a backpack trip to Philmont (82 miles!) as a female leader for a group of mixed Scouts over 20 years ago.
Marci (98fec4) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:37 pmI thought that was the purpose of The Jury Talks Back?
https://patterico.com/jury/2018/05/02/the-firehose-effect-the-challenge-that-trumps-non-stop-craziness-poses-to-media/
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:39 pm“She said calling people sucker isn’t an insult. Trump’s done something to the right’s psyche where lies flow like water. There’s nothing Trump can do that they won’t respond to with “Democrats!” Of course, as soon as it’s time to criticize democrats, anything the GOP did wrong is irrelevant. Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 11:22 am
Ah Dustin, really, you are a fool selling your cow for magic beans. But sure, I suppose it is an insult. So Dustin, you are wise and thoughtful, a lovely person.
The rest of your post isn’t really representative of anything I said. Not my position, not what I have said, not what I represented myself as. For a guy who hates lying, you sure are spending a lot of time putting words in my mouth. Tell you what, you do you, hero. I’ll do me.
Want to know what has happened to many republicans? We got woke. We realized that no one other than us cared about honesty in politics. That the media and democrats routinely lied, and were rewarded for it. That republicans routinely lied to the voters about what they would do, and got reelected.
So we hired King Liar himself. Why? Because he promised to fight. To win. And so far he has done fairly well at it.
Republicans – you want your party back? Okay – fight for what you say you want. Spend less time snipping at Trump, and more pushing forward the policies we all agree to. That means, shut up about Trump, unless the issues actually materially and directly impact pushing forward the conservative policies. You don’t have to praise trump, or love trump, or whatever. Just ignore it. Easy as pie.
Cassandra (a815b9) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:40 pmI don’t recall him saying that – not so baldly, anyway.
JP (699888) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:42 pmMarci. WRT the Scouts: Will it turn the organization into Jr. Hi?
Richard Aubrey (10ef71) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:46 pmAs to the actual topic of this post I can only place the blame of the development of this fire-hose effect on the media itself. During the campaign they reveled in reporting the wild stories. The real intense reporting of the crazy stuff started after the primaries and the media went nuts probably thinking that reporting all the stupid comments etc would assure a Hillary win. That didn’t work and now they are stuck with reporting the crazy while the important lies deserted to below the fold because people want their pablum. It is easier to read sensationalism and fluff than have to think on important things.
Marco (98fec4) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:47 pmWe can take your word for it, if you can show me that you are here with integrity (which you haven’t), and give your word that I said this (which you haven’t). I don’t recall if I said that or not and can’t really remember. You’re acting like the grand inquisitor, demanding I deny your assertions, while ignoring anything I ask you. You’re not better than me and I don’t have to pay attention to trolls.
The other two Trump fans in this thread have refused to answer any questions. They are here to insult people and troll, not engage in a conversation. I asked you a few questions, and like the two trolls, you ignored that completely and are focusing on talking about me rather than any issues. This is very typical on this blog when someone is losing an argument, I guess because it’s so hard to get banned here.
Here’s an example. Did you change your handle? If so, why? If not, who are you? If you can’t answer this with your next comment I’ll just ignore you, because it means you’re here in bad faith.
You attempted to make a case that Trump proved his critics wrong. You offered no specific examples except that ‘the economy is great’ and ‘MAGA’. I showed you that you’re mistaken. He’s broken his promises, in some cases hilariously , and by any objective criteria of his results, he’s leaning left as a president with only one exception (judicial appointments). In other words, I listened to your argument and responded reasonably, and you simply ignored it. That’s how a troll acts. Are you here to discuss Trump’s deficit spending, his Obamacare record, his coddling dictators? Or are you here to attack Trump’s critics personally
Just to be clear, the troll is being dishonest. Beelzebub is the devil. It’s very clear from this context that I was not pledging to vote for Hillary when I said I would vote for her over Hitler or the devil or Mao or any of those kinds of comments. He’s just trolling for a reaction and this blog would be a better place if BuDuh were required to revert to his original handle. Trolls who change their names should be banned, like the rules used to be.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:49 pmRichard. @97
As with any organization the individual groups within it are guided by the leadership on a local level. It is important for each family to look at the character of the leadership AND to be involved themselves as possible. This is true of one-sex troops as well as the soon to be two-sex troops of the future. My biggest concern would be that well-meaning women would take over leadership roles and the men would step back from leadership. (Women can be a bit pushy). I believe that strong masculine men need to lead the troops as our boys are already facing a feminization of culture in every other venue (ie school). I also would not be in favor of weakening requirements or feminizing the curriculum. So basically I am in favor of girls being in the program but not changing the program to accommodate them.
Marci (98fec4) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:58 pmCassandra, Dustin, like Patterico, DRJ, Beldar, and others here were sane, reasonably balanced, polite and interesting thinkers prior to the GOP Primaries. During the debates, as Trump began to shed the irrelevant outsider image and emerge as a powerful force, the Cruz supporters panicked.
So completely invested in their candidate that it was inconceivable to them that a few commenters might actually favor Trump, they felt somehow personally betrayed, they overreacted with insults, name calling, and smears. Of course the split wasn’t confined to this site, the same unfortunate tantrum was playing out nationwide under the #NeverTrumper banner.
In fact, it was so bitter that even now, 2 years later, the same angry #NeverTrumpers are still spewing venom at every opportunity. However, as President Trump has gone from election victory to one triumph after another (with few exceptions) criticism has shifted away from claims of incompetence and inexperience, to accusations of sub-standard morality and consequently being unfit to hold high office.
#NeverTrumpers just can’t see how wrongheaded they are, how their hurt feelings and emotional immaturity have swept them so far outside the scope of reality, and possibly most significantly that the audience for their prattle has closed their ears and turned their backs.
ropelight (649314) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:02 pmThere’s a lot loaded into this brief comment.
No, I don’t know that Flynn is innocent. You’re the one who seems to know this. He pled guilty so I actually know he’s guilty.
All prosecutors enjoy a high conviction rate because they can be selective about what they bring to trial, and they can negotiate. This does not mean the feds are the KGB, but Flynn was a fed and he pled guilty to acts of great immorality so I can appreciate your skepticism of those in power. That’s healthy, but the paranoia maybe isn’t.
All I know is that Flynn proved I was right to warn that the Trump administration would be filled with dishonest people. I was pretty much on the money when I said he would spend lots of money and try to govern by fiat. I was right to say Trump would coddle dictators and fail to make deals, because he’s a lousy businessman. I promise you guys I wasn’t psychic to warn y’all about Trump. The writing was on the wall.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:04 pmaccusations of sub-standard morality
he banged a fungus-riddled hooker 15 years ago
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:07 pmno Flynn’s being railroaded by the sleazy men and women of the gestapo fbi
this is why they keep postponing his sentencing
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:09 pmropelight, your need to jump in with the other Trump trolls to insult me a few times is noted. You’re a good follower. It’s amusing that after all the venom directed my way, you’re complaining about my treatment of Cassandra.
Anyway, this blog is so unpleasant to comment at these days. Is that your point?
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:10 pmthere’s not enough recipes Mr. Dustin
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:12 pmI think I’m getting closer:
kishnevi got that idea from somewhere. I’ll keep looking.
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:12 pmFlynn was our national security advisor. He lied about his contacts with Russia’s government regarding sanctions. Trump demanded the FBI back off, which is obstruction of justice, albeit it will be tricky to press charges against the president I am sure something will come of this.
I’m disappointed Flynn, the ultimate partisan, was not charged with treason for his actions in betrayal of the United States. I’m dead serious. Russia’s meddling with our democracy may be a laugh to Trump’s fans, but it shouldn’t be.
Flynn stated, and I quote “I accept full responsibility for my actions.” So I am being reasonable to assign responsibility to Flynn no matter what excuses emerge now.
These vague comments about Flynn’s son are amusing. Michael Flynn Jr is a lobbyist. He flew with his father to Moscow. He’s been accused of unlawfully lobbying on behalf of Turkey. If he was caught up in his father’s proven unethical conduct, he should be like his father and “take full responsibility.”
Oil and Gas lobbyist Papadopoulos has also pled guilty to lying about the investigation, with respect to Russian/Trump campaign collusion.
At some point I suspect the people saying this is all nothing are hacks.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:19 pmIt’s just plain become nasty for conservatives. Trump fans hate conservatives more than they hate anything else. This whole ‘nevertrumper’ hysteric thing shows they don’t mind a bit of Trump keeps Obamacare and spends trillions of dollars we don’t have. They just care if conservatives point out they were right.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:22 pmHe lied about his contacts with Russia’s government regarding sanctions.
no he didn’t the sleazy men and women of the FBI are the ones who are lying
they have no integrity
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:23 pmI promise you guys I wasn’t psychic to warn y’all about Trump. The writing was on the wall.
I believe the word used at that time was “psycho”…
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:23 pmI kid, I kid…
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:24 pmyes yes Flynn’s son is a sub-literate douchebag
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:24 pmIt’s just plain become nasty for conservatives.
i’m the most conservative one and I see so much good in what President Trump is doing on America
lots of good conservative stuff
he’s unshackling the tremendous engines of prosperity
he’s exposing corruption at every level of government
and he’s working hard to secure our borders
this is why he’s every bit as delicious as the wife of the australian prime minister
yummy!
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:27 pmThis is incorrect, Flynn’s finances are fine.
This is correct, in the sense that both Flynn and his son were conspiring with Turkey to black bag a political sanctuary recipient in return for $15 million. Flynn pled to keep his son out of jail, in return for his testimony. Which is why this
is also incorrect. His testimony is still ongoing.
Davethulhu (fab944) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:28 pmWRT Flynn: When, as is the case, interviews are not recorded, and any contradictory evidence, no matter the provenance, is presumed to be absolutely true–see Scooter Libby–and the entire program is overseen by the organization whose major accomplishments I listed–but forgot Whitey Bulger–then the way to bet is that it’s a hack job.
Richard Aubrey (10ef71) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:33 pmDealing with Russia is not treason. If it were, more people than Flynn would have to worry but we know DoJ and FBI have given them a pass. The issue is what the deals are.
that makes no sense the FBI needs to stop being so gay and pick up the shreds of what little dignity it has left
SO embarrassed for them
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:34 pmPatterico wants us to ignore them by using the blocking script, Dustin. I prefer The Jury or real life when people get unpleasant. This is one of those unpleasant days.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:35 pmand Lisa I believe these are your panties
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:37 pmLOL
Truth is, if we want to talk about Trump’s performance, the judicial appointments I said he’d made, before the election, were completely wrong. He’s done much better. And this is a huge deal because these judges will make a difference in our lives for much longer than anything else Trump does.
But if we’re going to talk about his performance, we need to talk about the bad stuff. Obamacare, the deficit, immigration, the North Korea BS, ISIS, Syria. And the guilty pleas.
Too many conversations about politics, both here and elsewhere, with Trump fans and democrats, are 99% personal insults. Any point I’ve raised against Trump, backed up with fact, is completely ignored. One of the Trump trolls is digging into years of my past comments to prove I said I’m a Hillary fan. Which brings us back around to your joke because I do think this buduh guy is being a psycho, and his reaction to me asking what his original name is suggests he knows he’s a psycho and he’s ashamed of himself.
Just saying.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:37 pmIt’s even worse than that, ropelight. It’s a psychotic break. When Trump was running as a primary candidate the idea of #NeverTrump had validity among Republicans. A lot of us would have accepted anybody to be our candidate but Trump. I was in fact one of them. I went from Santorum, then Fiorina, then Walker then Cruz. I never was for trump. BUT! Once the primary is over the idea of #NeverTrump became #NevereverHillary for me. Trump is president, the very idea of neverTrup is stupid, it’s too late. Now you can join forces with the left, the democrats, the socialists anarchists and communists, the womens/black/immigrant/gay/etc. movements or you can stick with our conservative principles despite the clown in the WH. I choose the latter.
I however never turned into a Trump supporter. I have remained a nevereverHillary person and I remain a conservative partisan supporting my party and my country even though Trump leads it. The party is still moral regardless of Trump. After all we aren’t Nazi’s. That would be the leftists.
NTW, I have lots of cop friends. They’ve told me stories of “moral monsters” and Trump doesn’t come close. That’s just naïve hyperbole and all it helps is the left. You know, the folks who support killing half a million babies a year in abortion mills. That kind of “moral monster”. The Goebels kind.
Rev.Hoagie (1b0402) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:44 pm@103. he banged a fungus-riddled hooker 15 years ago
No, no, no– backwards, Mr. Feet; she got lucky and rode The Great Pumpkin 15 years ago.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:50 pmBuDuh likes to make things personal, Dustin.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:52 pmDustin started our relationship being very personal, DRJ. He was not polite at all and never asked his “question” in a manner that anyone would answer. It was incredibly rude.
As far as doing research that The bas asked for your help on? I’m not sure how being helpful is rude. Unless I overstepped and did a job you would normally do. I’m new here, so I apologize if I broke with research protocols.
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 1:57 pmDRJ, you’re right in your suggestion that I block. You’re usually right!
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:03 pmPatterico, please let me know if you would prefer that I not comment here anymore. I made corrections twice since I started posting here and you admonished me. I doubt I can change my style too much more. It is who I am as an individual. Also, do you have the ability to look at some sort of internal information to assuage Dustin’s fear that I am some name changing troll? I’m not sure why he started off thinking that, but I think he needs an answer. If you can help.
I will respect your decisions and not comment anymore until I see a response.
Thank you
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:06 pmthat’s quite the imagery
so the gestapo FBI are the evil sleazy Agents
i knew it all along
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:07 pmI should say I made the corrections after you admonished me.
Let me know. I’ll stay silent until then.(which also means, DRJ and Dustin, I will remain silent if there is no response from Patterico)
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:10 pmDustin,
BuDuh — in his obsession to prove you were so unhappy with Trump the nominee that you considered voting for Hillary — has shown us that you are consistent in your unhappiness with Trump.
BuDuh’s obsession with me is to pinpoint exactly why and when I decided to vote for Trump, despite my unhappiness with Trump. Just before the election, I commented that I was concerned many Texas conservatives/Republicans were so unhappy with Trump that they were considering voting for Hillary. They were like you. I know a many Texans who felt the way you did, people that I doubt had ever voted for a Democrat.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:10 pm“Imagine the uproar if Clinton or Obama did this!” Just assume they did. Pick some similar event, and look at what actually happened.
“Trump dictated his health status letter to his doctor.” Can I imagine something similar? Yes, there were conspiracy theories about Hillary’s health. And the people pushing those theories were labelled cranks and loons. Then she collapsed during the 9/11 memorial service. And the Secret Service and her staff hid it from her pool of reporters. Then they claimed it was pneumonia and she was resting in the same house as her infant grandchild. Hillary’s doctor even said she was “Recovering nicely.” Recovering nicely from a sickness her campaign had claimed was not there and you were crazy if you said she was sick at all.
And what happened there. The press accepted Clinton’s story, didn’t pursue the issue. Continued to call people cranks and loons. And the issue festered (still festers in fact), seeding doubt in the minds of marginal Hillary supporters.
Compare that to the bombast of Trump’s doctor’s note. From THAT doctor. Did anyone believe it? Of course not. But, was Trump coughing at the very frequent, hours long rallies he was holding for the past year? No. Was he online all day, tweeting random crap and posting photos of himself? Yes. Was there any reason to think Trump’s doctor’s note was an attempt to hide something? Other than the fact that Trump was 70 and overweight, No (or Yes if you think Trump is suffering from syphilitic dementia.)
Xmas (e63a38) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:11 pmnobody puts BuDuh in a corner
you have to sing your truth Mr. BuDuh
you have to sing it with sass and verve
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:12 pmBe yourself, BuDuh. So what if Dustin and I aren’t interested in talking to you? There are lots of folks here.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:15 pmthat’s so prejudice
I’ll be your friend Mr. BuDuh I’m not prejudice
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:16 pmCNN’s Toobin: Adding Clinton impeachment lawyer increases odds Trump fires Mueller
CNN’s Toobin banged Jeff Greenfield’s hot-to-trot daughter Casey and knocked her up but he’s still married to some low self-esteem chick
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:21 pmhf, since I’m one of the few (?) people here who still reads your comments, you might want to think of another word to describe me than prejudiced. But I am curious to learn what class of people you think I’m prejudiced against?
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:23 pmWell, we all just should have voted for Hillary, since Trump is an obvious liar, fake, fraud and general nut case. Had we done that, all would be calm, peaceful and sane. Right? Right!
Ike (eb50fb) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:26 pmyou’re prejudice on Mr. BuDuh
i’m not sure why
prejudice means you made up your miond about something and you won’t allow yourself to be swayed to another perspective
that’s what the blocking script is all about it’s let’s you do prejudice on people
I abjure this on one level but on another level I think it’s good that people are being honest, and you are nothing if not honest DRJ
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:26 pmoops you made up your *mind* about something i mean
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:27 pmoops *it* let’s you do prejudice on people
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:28 pm*lets*
sorry for all the typos I’m all embroiled in a contretemps on skype but I wanted to reply to your vexation cause of you seemed vexed
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:30 pmIt’s just plain become nasty for conservatives. Trump fans hate conservatives more than they hate anything else.
Revisit 1964; it wasn’t pleasant for te then ‘Rockefeller Republicans’ as the cycle began shifting, either. Trump is a transient; a transition to an emerging hybrid party with the ascendency of a form of that ‘Rockefeller Republicanism’ and the containment, if not retiring, of de-energized ideological conservatism. Clearly Trump drew cross-over voters. What will be interesting is who comes after him; who emerges as the new, young standard bearer. It’s likely no one on anybody’s radar, yet.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:31 pmI was open to conversations with BuDuh up to and including the Shulkin thread. In a later discussion, he told me that was his idea of how adults engage in rational discussions. It’s not my idea of how adults talk to each other, so I decided to avoid him — until today. Not the best decision on my part but it’s not based on prejudice. It’s based on experience.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:34 pmwho emerges as the new, young standard bearer. It’s likely no one on anybody’s radar, yet.
her name is nikki haley
she can’t be stopped
she can’t be reasoned with
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:34 pmWho made it up? Trump or Bornstein?
Or is the way to understand that that they worked it out together?
Sammy Finkelman (02a146) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:35 pmWhat you describe sounds like the same old GOP establishment to me, DCSCA.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:35 pmok if you say so but it’s a *choice* and i think Mr. BuDuh has gamefully engaged here with everybody in a new environment that he’s not familiar with
these things take time
a beginning is a very delicate time that’s what Frank Herbert said once when he was alive
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:37 pmThanks Ropelight.
I do find it quite amusing that Dustin is such a large part of the unpleasantness he constantly complains about. We get it – he doesn’t like Trump. And he doesn’t seem to care much for anyone who does, or anyone who doesn’t share his passionate hobby of hating Trump. Meh to you sir, meh to you.
Cassandra (a815b9) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:39 pmThen you talk to him, happyfeet. Help him out.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:39 pmWell said. Really my frustration started with Mitt Romney’s nomination. But before 2006, the GOP’s discretionary, domestic spending showed me my lifelong GOP faith was misplaced. My involvement with the GOP was low level, but I think it was considerable. I went all around the country working for the party. But at that point I believed that comparing the parties was easy. Democrats are worse on spending, so let’s try to fix things with the GOP. But the GOP’s reliance on this policy dodge meant everything has been leaning more and more left. The democrats push a little left, the GOP is free to do the same, year after year. The guys calling the shots don’t give a crap because more spending, more power, more intrusion, it all means more opportunities for them.
Now we’ve got Trump. The party that used to have family values has Trump. Trump is, for all intents and purposes, a lifelong democrat hack, parroting Hillary talking points on Larry King Live. Now he’s cynically acting like a cliche of a republican. It’s as though Anthony Weiner started pretending he didn’t mind David Duke and ran as a Republican. Of course I would not be a fan.
I’m frustrated that a lot of republicans are fans. Especially because a lot of them are just as jaded with the GOP as I am, but they fell for it anyway. The GOP stands for nothing now. 2016 was such an opportunity. So many great candidates. Walker, Cruz, or several others, in a year when we were destined to run against Hillary (and therefore destined to win). It was a turning point for reform that we wasted on someone who will never get landmark legislation passed because, at the end of the day, Trump does not want to end Obamacare or balance the budget. He’s got them New York Values. He is no more conservative than Anthony Weiner.
The GOP’s cowardice since his nomination has been no surprise. But fortunately I am blessed with seeing this crazy point in American history and hopefully seeing how we overcome the mistake of electing Trump.
George Washington warned us that partisanship opens the door to foreign meddling in our elections. Trump’s obvious corruption (and it is quite obvious) is ignored by one side, just as Hillary’s was by the other side. Anyone pointing either side’s problems out is ignored as a heretic.
I believe BuDuh is desperately trying to punish me for asking him what his last handle was here. Anyone know?
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:40 pm@146. We don’t really know yet, DRJ. It takes time to gel and it has only been 18 months- but as rickety as it is, Trump is a bridge to something different; look how long it took from Goldwater’s defeat to Reagan’s win. But clearly Trump drew in cross-over voters. He got my vote; if memory serves, yours, too. Try to look at it longer term. Familiar names now aren’t likely the ones to carry the flag forward.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:41 pmok i will
Mr. BuDuh sometimes it helps to just make your comments without engaging per se, that is…
just put it out there what you think about the topic
that’s what adds value
unless you’re a lawyer
lawyers like to get all socratic about stuff, but that doesn’t mean we all have to do it that same way
but maybe that’s your thing too
but either way just sing your truth knowing in your heart you’re adding something valuable to America’s discussion
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:43 pmI think Mr. Buduh has been commenting here for years. He’s all bit admitted this when I asked him what his last troll name was, and he flipped out and began his little research project. To think, he’s now absorbed years and years of my opinions to prove that I hold these opinions. He basically trolled himself.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:46 pmXmas (e63a38) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:11 pm Exactly.
But you left out the best part, the Benghazi hearing, where she suddenly couldn’t testify because she had fainted, fallen, then showed up with special glasses commonly prescribed to patients who had had a stroke. What the hell was that all about? Guess we will never know. her doctor ain’t going to talk. Which is fine because the media will never ask him any questions.
Cassandra (a815b9) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:47 pmGood advice, hf, and good insight into how lawyers think. We are Socratic.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:48 pmhe may have been someone else before but he transitioned and we have to respect that but now I’m curious i wonder who it is
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:48 pmThat’s what some of us have been worried about from the beginning and why we fear Trump, maybe more than Hillary. Republicans would have stood up to Hillary. They are getting rolled by Trump.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:50 pmthat little discussion that came up about Protein Wisdom and then the misapprehension I just had at JOM has made me think a bit on how long we all been at this DRJ
it’s a durable little medium
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:52 pmI have the feeling he has been here before, too, but JD and Stash were always the best at spotting them and I’m not sure if they are around.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:55 pmIt has been years, more than a decade. It’s neat to have that bond.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:56 pmOn what, precisely? Most of Trump’s successes have come through his powers as POTUS. As far as what came out of Congress, we have the tax bill. We didn’t get Obamacare repealed because of GOPe weasels who refused to vote for the very same bill they had voted for when Obama was President.
What are they doing or not doing because Trump has rolled them?
Anon Y. Mous (6cc438) — 5/2/2018 @ 2:59 pmDon’t know if I believe this but some pollster is reporting a huge surge in the black vote for trump and by extension the gop. Like I said I don’t know how you can poll people by race on the phone accurately
EPWJ (3f4832) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:00 pmI never mention this fact, but it’s a great point. Trump’s deficit spending is terrible. Would debt be this bad under Hillary with a GOP house? No. We’d have some shutdown brinksmanship, but Hillary didn’t have the PR chops that Obama did.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:00 pmWhat successes are you even talking about? Obamacare? Immigration? Signing into law an enormous deficit? These are failures.
Excuses. Trump promised he would get results because of his ability to make “such great deals”. He has failed at this, and now you guys are saying it’s not his fault. Well he made the promises. One of them was a balanced budget. He has shown no interest in keeping his promises. Of course I told ya so.
The GOP congress is spending a ton of money. The GOP congress is asking for secrets about a corruption investigation in progress, knowing this will lead to leaks and damage the investigation.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:05 pm@157. Republicans would have stood up to Hillary. They are getting rolled by Trump.
You mean ‘conservatives.’ It’s ideological conservatives– the old clan who inked those ‘no-Trump’ essays in that special National Review issue. ‘Rocky Repubs’ aren’t so displeased. In spite of Gorsuch, which was a given w/t in anyway, it’s the ideologues who are getting rolled by Trump. He has no ideology. And if there’s a blue wave, he’ll ride it any way he can to score ‘wins’ on the TeeVee. He’s a transient. Folks are just tired of ‘stood up to’ and ‘my way or the highway’ politics. Many voted for Trump believing he’d get things done– and when he doesn’t they’re letting him know about it. Like that wall…
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:06 pmHundreds of students walk out of classes in support of gun rights
i love them
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:07 pmDustin, I don’t believe I’ve insulted you, I’ve disagreed with you at times, but that’s not an insult, it’s actually complementary to engage on an intellectual level. Don’t you agree?
Until you went #NeverTrump our differences were ones of modest degree, never of principle. Yet, now you’ve recently denounced me as lacking in personal integrity Then failed to respond, as far as I know, when asked for examples. (Please correct me if I missed something.)
Next topic: I’ve been commenting here as long or longer than most others and I’m not about to turn tail or be marginalized by other guests, not Beldar, not DRJ, not by any of the upstarts, and not by you. Only Patterico calls the shots here and my respect for his personal integrity far exceeds his current delusional opinions of The Donald.
I can express my affection for Patterico and continue to hold him in high regard while at the same time disagreeing with him and suffering undeserved criticism. He’s earned the mulligan.
The same does not apply to you.
ropelight (649314) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:08 pmI am happy we don’t have Hillary as President but even a weak GOP Congress would not have agreed to fund PP or increase the deficit for her, but it did for Trump.
Also, Republicans opposed DACA but it’s still here because Trump feels sorry for the Dreamers. I get it. It’s hard to be tough on immigration because the liberals trot out attractive immigrant children and families to tug at our emotions. But Trump promised to be tough on immigration. (And I still don’t have a Wall.)
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:08 pm167. Then I’ll say it as well. Trump supporters are lacking in personal integrity. And I’m happy for you that you refuse to be marginalized. It’s a good thing I can decide for myself who I have to listen to around here.
Gryph (08c844) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:10 pmI absolutely agree that establishment Republicans are fine with Trump, DCSCA. He wasn’t their first choice but they did eventually choose him. They like his values.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:11 pmPP was funded under Obama by the GOP. If they weren’t willing to stand up to him, why would they against Hillary. Answer: because Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski are pro abortion. They don’t have the numbers to kill it and that’s not Trump’s fault.
Trump attempted to suspend DACA. Robed lawyers (judges) overruled him. It will take time, but my bet is it will get done. As will the wall.
Anon Y. Mous (6cc438) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:16 pmif the Rs can’t repeal obamacare there’s no rational reason to think they can defund PP
they like abortion is why
they love it so much
we saw that in Alabama
and we saw it when they nominated Mitt Romney
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:16 pmropelight,
In comment 101, you said that I (and others) went from a “sane, reasonably balanced, polite and interesting thinker” to “insults, name calling, and smears . .. spewing venom at every opportunity … [with] emotional immaturity.”
Given that, it’s hard to understand how I’m the one who is marginalizing you or insulting your integrity. But I am happy you hold Patterico in high regard despite his “delusional opinions.”
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:24 pmTrump:
DRJ (15874d) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:27 pmDershowitz-
Dershowitz said, “Mueller has the ultimate card in his hand, the subpoena card. Because you subpoena the president, he has to go in front of the grand jury without his lawyer, without any opportunity to limit the questions.”
“He continued, “But this gives the president some options, too. He can challenge the subpoena in court. He can go to the federal district court, the court of appeals, the United States Supreme Court. He can argue you can’t subpoena a president in a criminal case in front of a grand jury. He would possibly lose that broad issue. He can then argue you can’t ask a president why he engaged in acts that are authorized under Article II of the Constitution. He might well win that argument. Then he might argue you can’t ask me questions that go beyond the scope of the special counsel’s authority, namely to business dealings before he became president of the United States, and he may win or may lose that. It’s unclear.”
EPWJ (cf29f3) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:28 pmRopelight, sometimes I read things on the internet that make me laugh. And laughter is good, so thanks. You said I wasn’t sane anymore, among a bunch of other insults, while projecting your issues. You and the other Trump fans aren’t here to discuss a thing.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:29 pmit’s not even about Mr. Trump
if the sleazy mean and women of the FBI gestapo can weaken the office of the presidency then they’ve taken out the only institution capable of holding them in check
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:30 pmugh *men* and women I mean
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:30 pmGood grief!
I recall how the Trump fan complaint was that Rubio or Jeb would be a tenth as bad as Trump turned out to be on immigration.
It’s interesting that with all this look at the talk of 2016 they aren’t looking at what they themselves said. But other than ropelight, who I generally like reading, the other Trump fans all changed their names and are upset to be reminded of this.
I think Ropelight in particular was very frustrated with Rubio’s dishonesty on immigration (my apologies if I’ve got this switched up). So why aren’t these Trump fans critical of Trump’s progressive immigration actions? This is a broken promise that formed the heart of his basis for running in the first place.
Why it’s as though a democrat is pretending to be a republican or something…
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:33 pmA corrupt president is a special problem, poorly foreseen or addressed by the founders.
I think we shouldn’t bother pretending to have a president. We have a legislator in chief. We should just change things around wildly and have a PM and parliament. We should change ballot access. Hell, we should set a maximum percentage of seats any political party can hold, and have a lot of deal making among various factions.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:35 pm@170. He wasn’t their first choice but they did eventually choose him. They like his values.
More likely tolerate them. And the establishment GOP today isn’t the same; McConnell is no Dirksen. Remember, 63 million Americans voted for Trump, too. They didn’t have to– and his opponent, who lost due to the system, actually got more of the popular vote- nearly 66 million… which may reveal more about the actual mindset of the country as a whole. This is one of those few-times-a-century periods change. The real question– assuming he survives Mueller and doesn’t collapse face down in a piece of chocolate cream pie– is who comes after him. Doubt it will be Pence or anyone from the past few cycles.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:36 pmMeanwhile.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2018/05/02/texas-v-daca-draws-federal-judge-andrew-hanen-big-trouble-looms-for-immigration-activists/
Anon Y. Mous (6cc438) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:36 pmhttps://hotair.com/archives/2018/05/02/former-trump-doctor-dictated-letter-2015-claiming-super-healthy/
Allahpundit turns a valve
EPWJ (cf29f3) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:43 pm#25
Trump shills? This is the problem: everyone who doesn’t see some nefarious motive in everything Trump does is a dupe, a deplorable, a “shill”. Guess what, some of us sit in the middle. We’re able to see the good and the bad. Not everything is an outrageous outrage worthy of moral indignation and labeling those who disagree with us as moral degenerates with no sense of right and wrong.
“Shill”. Oh, please. Who exactly are the ones who are bound by their over the top reactionary orthodoxy. It’s like trying to speak to someone who has bought into the cult of “climate change that they label everyone who may be just a bit skeptical as “deniers”, a term purposely chosen to lump said skeptics to people who deny that six million Jews were slaughtered by the Nazis.
But try to be reasonable with zealots. It’s impossible. You’ll always be labeled as monsters. So to this post I say, “so what?”. To people who would label others as shills, I say “so what?”. I don’t like to use terms like “NeverTrumpers”, because it’s easy then to dismiss what the have to say out of hand. But you know what? So does labeling people “Trumpalos!”. Think I’m a rube because I’ll call people out for their intellectual bankruptcy? Fine. I’m a jerk? Great. But you get what you give. That’s what happens in the absence of any hope of, you know, engaging in a civil dialogue.
So what. No matter what you do, you’re a dullard and evil. But go right ahead, let you’re head explode on a daily basis. You do you. So what?
Estarcatus (dfbf49) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:47 pm“Trump is, for all intents and purposes, a lifelong democrat hack, parroting Hillary talking points on Larry King Live. Now he’s cynically acting like a cliche of a republican. Of course I would not be a fan. I’m frustrated that a lot of republicans are fans. Especially because a lot of them are just as jaded with the GOP as I am, but they fell for it anyway.” Dustin
Okay, I appreciate your point of view, and you might be surprised that we are no more than a scintilla away from each other.
The fundamental difference between you and me, is that while I am disappointed in this turn of events, I am neither surprised, nor especially angry about it. I have accepted the situation, as it is, not as I wished it were. I don’t blame anyone. In fact I am bemused. All our plans and schemes, and we get Trump. Hubris – man plans, god laughs.
“Trump is acting like a cliched republican.” I agree – he has zero conservative values. he’s just going through the motions of a conservative agenda. Trump wants one thing – it is all he has ever wanted. Fame, adoration, his name on the front page, his face on the $100 bill. Simple.
The only way for him to get those things, things he has coveted his entire life, is to follow a conservative agenda and accomplish conservative goals. He has exactly zero opportunity to convert Democrats to his cause, even he sees that. Nothing he can ever do will change their minds. It is conservatism or nothing.
Herein lies our opportunity. He is going to give us exactly what we tell him we want.
Why can’t we go into this situation, eyes open, and make the most of what is? What is more important here, being right (which seems to be your position) or actually accomplishing conservative goals? We (insert obnoxious adjective here) Trump people have grown weary of your seemingly endless winging, sniping, whining, crying, moaning, and have started to seriously doubt your commitment to the cause. Grow up, accept what is, and work toward something better. Let go of your pride.
Cassandra (a815b9) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:47 pmLast time I checked, the USA had coasts. Trading a wall for the willpower to enforce immigration laws is a classic Trump move though. Lots of graft from a project that big. It’s symbolic. It’s going to damage a lot of stuff and take a lot of land and not thwart immigration. Trump has a history of employing illegals so this all makes sense.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 3:49 pm“Conversing” with dustin is akin to repeatedly running headfirst into a brick wall. He argues exclusively with assertion and projection. I advise saving yourself a headache.
the Bas (3bcea0) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:08 pmthat’s very narrow thinking Mr. Dustin
many countries have tidy little walls and there’s no reason we can’t have one too
here is what your thinkings fail to encompass
once the wall is built the whole discussion changes!
the immigration paradigms will all shift
my hope is that in a post-wall America
immigrants will be spoken of as a resource not a scourge
and building the wall is how you get there
President Trump is a visionary leader
and whatever I can do to help him achieve that vision, I will gladly do that for him
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:09 pmThank you for such a refreshingly honest post Patterico. We don’t fight this way about WJC anymore but the polarized battles were every bit as passionate and the views of his fitness for office every bit as hardened. Who can forget W’s battle cry to “return dignity” to the office, for example. Those of us that opposed him, or Obama too for that matter, never could understand how others didn’t see the disqualifying flaws we saw in them so the more things change the more they stay the same. Eventually we had to accept the legitimacy of the election results in those years while continuing to fight for what we believe.
Before commenting I took the time to refresh my memory about what you’ve posted through the years and found the 2013 Patterico.com Turns Ten Years Old Today to be worth every minute I spent looking back at the kind of posts that drew me here and kept me coming back. IMHO this is another very worthy one.
You’ve built a strong brand and remarkably candid forum so I can understand how you could be conflicted about how to proceed in the days of Trump. The people who voted against him because of who he is and the people who voted for him in spite of who he is see the same things they just don’t agree on what to do about it. The effect each president has on his party and the country fades with the passage of time but the institutional changes and decisions on war and peace endure.
Until Trump passes you’ll have to decide whether your views of the Constitution or your views of Trump defines your brand. As for me, I agree with your views but just don’t think Trump is important enough to get all worked up about. The voters will decide that. I expect to be reading and thinking either way.
crazy (5c5b07) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:12 pmThere’s a lot of truth to this. A lot of Trump’s fans express a view of his morality that is even more negative than my view, but they see him as something they’ve resorted to.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:23 pmHmm, I think if we look over our exchange today I answered you with arguments and you wouldn’t do this.
But what other names have you commented here under? I’m guessing all the trolls in this thread cannot honestly say “none.” People who reject their own reputation can’t expect me to worry that much about what they think of mine, especially the one of y’all that has refused to say what his last name was here, but is obsessed with my comment history. You were saying something about projection?
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:25 pmmarci. WRT the Scouts. The point of having girls in the program in the first place is to feminize the whole thing and cut down on toxic masculinity.
Richard Aubrey (10ef71) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:35 pmI know this because I have tried not writing about Trump in the past, and people were uninterested in those posts. In late November 2015, I made a personal decision to stop writing about Donald Trump. I believed he was getting too much media attention and I wanted to counteract it in my own small way. I wrote about the election, but I did not mention Trump directly. I kept this up, I believe, throughout December 2015.
I’ve gone back this morning and looked at the headlines of my posts from December 2015 and the number of comments on the posts. Aside from a handful of posts about hot-button issues like JVW’s breaking story on the San Bernardino shootings, it was rare for posts to get over 100 comments. The ones that did were the ones that came closest to discussing Trump — like posts about Ted Cruz’s rejection of any notion of banning all Muslims from entering the U.S. I didn’t mention Trump by name or his own proposed Muslim ban; I just said that Cruz rejected any such policy. And a flood of comments came into that post — and they were all talking about Trump and his policy. What a relief! the numbers said. Finally we can talk about Trump!
You claim to dislike reading pro-Trump comments but when you found a way to stop them you were unhappy.
James B. Shearer (a9b467) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:46 pmApparently happyfeet has taken nk hostage, and is hoping to do a prisoner swap for narciso…
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:23 am
A few of us tried a summoning but the geas was too strong. How about a seance?
Narciso, can you hear me?
*snorfle. shirley your joking macho grande
Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:48 pmthe scouts got so thoroughly hijacked by the mormons putting chicks in there was the only way to navigate a path forward and remain relevant
kinda like the failed experiment at the fbi
yeah I’m lookin’ at you Lisa
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:49 pmi tried to go say hi to Mr. narciso but i think I’m banned there
it must be from forever ago but google doesn’t hardly have any comments from me over there and what I can find is very anodyne
so somebody else will have to rescue Mr. narciso
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:33 am
no no no I could read you’re comments.
Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:49 pmikes
last one i left was this note to Mr. JOM i figured would land in moderation (i got a bounce from his email)
hrm
maybe i just need a different browser
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:52 pmNah, it’s The Matriarchy. Getting the boys to learn how to play house with the girls at an early age leading to marriage and a lifetime of enslavement taking care of them and their squalling brats.
nk (dbc370) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:55 pmYou can’t spell “Scouting BSA” without BS.
gwjd (032bef) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:55 pmi just love how it parallels with the fbi thing and I hate Lisa
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:56 pmDo the girl scouts take boys now?
Not that self respecting boy would join the girl scouts.
the Bas (3bcea0) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:58 pmDavid Goodall: Scientist, 104, begins trip to end his life
BBC News 8h ago
the BBC like the rest of that tacky fascist little island can butterfly my shrimp
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:58 pmOkay, since no one is paying attention to the topic of Patterico’s post:
Narciso’s situation was very simple. And it’s all there for people who are interested.
It really seems as if some commenters here don’t understand that this is Patterico’s site. Heck, I have seen Patterico call posters very unpleasant names, and yet those people continue to post.
So every time people try to make it seem as if Patterico “bans” people, I get confused. He gives trolls waaaay too much freedom to troll, in my opinion. But it is Patterico’s site. And he is a very, very patient man.
Simon Jester (c8876d) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:58 pm8th Grade Mean Gurl Syndrome has gone pandemic.
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:58 pmthe scouts got so thoroughly hijacked by the mormons putting chicks in there
The Mormons are a matriarchy.
nk (dbc370) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:59 pmscouting in general is an anachronism
i’m glad it’s not my problem
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:59 pmfeets,
Maguire (“Mr. JOM”) never has checked his email much, so I’m not surprised it no longer works. I’ve seen a post or two of yours recently, so they do go through. Sometimes it takes quite some time.
There is no moderation on JOM, and banning actually is very difficult.
Passing Through (72e560) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:00 pmThe Mormons are a matriarchy.
you know who’s an awesome matriarch is childless husbandless Jennifer Lawrence
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:00 pmMaguire (“Mr. JOM”) never has checked his email much, so I’m not surprised it no longer works. I’ve seen a post or two of yours recently, so they do go through. Sometimes it takes quite some time.
how embarrassing let me go see if i can find the note i sent I think I got a bounce
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:01 pmHi Mr. Maguire. Came by your site yesterday or so looking to say hi to our friend Mr. narciso and noticed I couldn’t comment on your site, which I think probably means I’m banned so to speak.
This is ok I know I’m not for everyone, but I googled to see if I could discover where I’d caused offense and didn’t come up with much. Just wanted to say I’m almost certain I never meant to say anything untoward, and I can’t remember mixing it up with anyone on your site.
best regards,
happy
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:02 pmmarriage and a lifetime of enslavement taking care of them and their squalling brats.
Given what’s happened to marriage rates in my lifetime, this doesn’t seem to be working.
I would have thought that more marriage and less illegitimacy were desirable outcomes from a conservative point of view. But then I am in my mid-50s and my notions of “conservatism” were formed in the 70s and 80s. Back then, it was the Left (well, at least parts of it) that thought sex whenever-whereever-with whomever, without regard for consequences, was the Good Life.
gwjd (032bef) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:03 pmnow that i look at it i think when i threw that into the comments thinking it would go to moderation i changed that to
your friend,
happy
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:05 pmI think naciso didn’t think he was lying, it was a recollection that he mis-remembered, and so didn’t want to cop to something he didn’t think he did. Too bad it became a matter of honor instead of leaving it as a misunderstanding that was corrected by our host.
the Bas (3bcea0) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:05 pmIn lieu of The Ban, it’s Speak to the Hand.
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:06 pmColonel Haiku
The new Scout Orienteering Merit Badge had nothing to do with a compass.
Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:09 pmI think naciso didn’t think he was lying, it was a recollection that he mis-remembered, and so didn’t want to cop to something he didn’t think he did. Too bad it became a matter of honor instead of leaving it as a misunderstanding that was corrected by our host.
the Bas (3bcea0) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:05 pm
It’s like when you ignore a ticket and they put out a bench warrant for you.
Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:10 pmi miss him so much
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:12 pmBreaking- Ty Cobb benched; now batting for Team Trump, Emmet Flood.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:37 am
Apres Cobb le Deluge
Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:12 pmdid you see that pull quote about the new lawyer with the harry potter glasses?
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:12 pm121… I remember Dustin had said he would vote for Clinton, but later said he hadn’t voted for her. That’s my recollection, anyways…
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:13 pm“These scandals run hot, and he has the gift of cooling them down and slowing them down,” Eisen said. “It is like the way Neo slows down time in the Matrix to dodge bullets.”
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:13 pmI cannot count the letters of recommendation or reference I have signed for people who dictated much or all of those letters. If I did not accept what was dictated, I changed it to what I thought was true. I never signed a false letter.
This happens all the time. Question: “Will you write me a reference?” Answer:”Sure, what would you like me to say?”
The difference between me and the doctor is that I don’t change my mind and weasel out of what I once wrote.
Fred Z (05d938) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:13 pmif he voted for McMullin he still voted team vagina
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:14 pmA lot was said in those days, it was a heated environment.
I have to say that claiming ISIS was a Trump failure is hard to understand. I sure don’t look at it that way, I think the gloves were taken off.
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:16 pmThose things are constantly buzzing our house in the GA mountains. I’ve sat on my porch and watched them come in low off the lake and fly right over my head at tree-top level. Hmm….
Skorcher (5b282a) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:31 am
My dad would say they have the glide slope of a tool box. I remember as a kid visiting my grandparents in the Mogollon Rim country, the sonic boom from the jets would open the sliding patio door.
Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:20 pmThere are two kinds of failure. There’s one where a politician makes ridiculous promises he cannot keep, such as Trump’s ISIS promise, and there’s the other where a politician makes promises that were realistic but are broken, such as Trump’s promises on immigration.
I’m not sure what Trump’s foreign policy is, because it can be very all over the place. It’s really easier to understand it if you assume some countries have better lobbying access than others. He’s being very foolish with North Korea and ineffective with Syria, but with Iran he’s not. There’s no question he couldn’t defeat ISIS in the timeline he said he would. It’s just another iteration of something that has been active for generations.
But Trump compared himself to the “worse president in US History”, George W Bush, and was very, very specific in how he would crush ISIS and when. He hasn’t kept this promise.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:26 pmSounds accurate.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:27 pmI vehemently disagree. America and its allies won a war that 2 1/2 years ago had us reading headlines about decapitations sundry atrocities and somehow nobody seemed to notice… especially the media.
The war against ISIS, whose expansion was just one among numerous Obama presidential calamities, with executions of Americans that made the U.S. look completely helpless best case, uninterested worst case, was won. To call that a Trump F-up tells me the person saying it either has a blind spot or an axe to grind.
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:31 pmThere are two kinds of failure.
ok so you’re saying failure is a binary
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:32 pmGiven what’s happened to marriage rates in my lifetime, this doesn’t seem to be working.
And it’s got The Matriarchy running scared, Mr. gwjd. That’s why they pass draconian paternity and child support laws; and “sex trafficking” laws that make it a crime for the man to consort with strange women but not a crime for the women; and you’ve seen, with all this #MeToo crap, how it, The Matriarchy, is trying to make it a crime for a man to even look at a woman who is not his ball and chain.
nk (dbc370) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:37 pmI’m joking.
And I have to admit that Fred Z’s comment @ 222, calling Dr. Bornstein’s letter a “reference”, is much funnier that my Al Bundy impression. LOL, Fred Z!
nk (dbc370) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:40 pmWhat I’m saying is that you can fail when you don’t keep a promise, because you’re an F up. Or you can fail when you make a promise that is BS. Trump’s commentary about war in the middle east was full of grandiose nonsense, disrespect for those who did a great job, and promises that could never be kept.
I don’t think this is true. The last time ISIS did this stuff was yesterday. https://www.google.com/search?q=isis+executions&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS771US771&source=lnms&tbm=nws&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjr5_6hp-jaAhUl4IMKHWMVBLEQ_AUICygC&biw=1396&bih=702
I think ISIS is still a thing and that Trump’s promise to stop ISIS in his first 30 days was not kept because Trump promised a lot of stuff that couldn’t be kept. Trump said this stuff in order to show us that Bush and Obama were doing a terrible job, but I don’t see how Trump is an improvement.
Your response sounds like you think Trump is doing the best he can, and at least with respect to ISIS, let’s assume for the sake of argument you are right (I think Trump’s foreign policy is generally quite terrible). Trump set the standard for his performance when he said ISIS would be stopped by Feb 20 2017. It was a dishonest promise, but I can hold him to it and by that metric he has failed, objectively.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:43 pmyou’re not seeing the big picture
clearly we’re gonna take the tatters off the board and unleash the boy-girl he-she scouts on ISIS
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:55 pm@175. Lawyer caught mugging cameras. Film at 11.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:55 pmI seem to recall that change happened back in the 1970’s as an appeal to black youth. The theory was that they weren’t joining BSA because they took offense at the word “boy”.
Skorcher (5b282a) — 5/2/2018 @ 10:41 am
Is that the theory behind KFC? Black people hate Kentucky?
Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:55 pmOMG. Laughing all day about this. I am so glad to check in and see that you wrote about the President’s “health assessment”. I just kept thinking to myself how humiliating it must be for Trump supporters to pretend to believe the man. Or worse, to be in such a dark, moist place as to actually believe all of his alternative facts.
He wrote his own damn physical assessment…. while running for President of the United States! Another whopper spewed like a true “flash-bang grenade”. And it’s funny as hell.
noel (b4d580) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:55 pmGot a headache yet Haiku?
the Bas (3bcea0) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:57 pmIs that the theory behind KFC? Black people hate Kentucky?
you don’t get enough credit
shine on lil diamond
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 5:58 pmActually, it turns out that we’re not allowed to hold Trump to his promises.
Dave (b19bbb) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:02 pmAll he has to do is google, the Bas, to glimpse what others, more knowledgeable than I, have to say on the subject. If he has an interest. Otherwise, it’s just his opinion. No big deal. He’s been stubborn about what’s been plainly obvious to the majority before.
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:05 pmGoldiConDave. Not fast enough.
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:06 pmAre you going on record as denying it? My internet skills are limited, but I’m sure someone could find it. DRJ?
the Bas (3bcea0) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:22 pm
From memory I would say he preferred Hillary to win over Trump, but I can’t say for certain he was actually going to cast a vote for Clinton.
Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:07 pmActually, it turns out that we’re not allowed to hold Trump to his promises.
He’s such a great president and you’re not even aware how good he is.
wake up dude
life’s just passing you by
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:07 pmEven most of Trump’s detractors give him good grades on the results of his Middle East policies so far.
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:08 pmDave, it seems that a lot of people feel that way.
But this exchange seems like going to the used car dealer. He tells you that his 1997 Dodge Ram will get 55 miles per gallon. You return it because it only gets 20 miles per gallon. The dealer tells you (accurately) this is pretty good mileage for a pickup truck. You point out he lied when he made the promise, but to some people, this promise can be waved off because used car dealers lie about everything.
If you’re dumb (which Haiku is not) you would hear all these promises about a balanced budget, no obamacare, an end to illegal immigration, and destroying ISIS in 30 days, while hearing how W was the worst president in American history (worse than Obama BTW) and think, hey, Trump really has his act together and can solve all this stuff. So you buy in and vote for the strong sounding promises. After all, Jeb is weak and Ted’s a liar and Rubio’s penis is not as big as Trump’s.
But now we see Trump’s wayyyyyyyy to the left of Rubio and Jeb on immigration, granting tons and tons of amnesty. ISIS is still killing innocent people. The budget is actually the worst in American history. Obamacare is still a thing last time I did taxes. But hey, 20 miles per gallon. Not bad if you move the goal posts.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:09 pmHere’s an opinion from Patterico’s new spot http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-abrahms-glaser-isis-assad-20171210-story.html
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:13 pmI needed this distraction. I broke my leg last weekend while skydiving. With the help of 200 pounds of tandem instructor on my back…. on my first jump! I would have preferred that he applied the brakes BEFORE landing but you get what you get.
For real.
noel (b4d580) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:14 pmConceded.
They shouldn’t if this is true. He’s too conflicted by what Russia wants. He’s going through national security advisors and secretaries of state quite fast.
He has no plan to remove Assad from power and no clear vision for what the hell he’s trying to do there. Saudi Arabia’s recent comments are nice, I guess, if you respect that country, which I don’t. Qatar’s situation is destablized (they are a critical ally) but they don’t lobby like the House of Saud so who is Trump going to side with?
Trump’s progress on ISIS is roughly the same as Obama’s last year of office.
Respectfully, someone who thinks Trump’s critics are giving him good marks on the middle east is probably not listening to a lot of Trump’s critics, but I readily admit an axe to grind, a bias, a stubbornness, all that. Definitely who I am and I don’t pretend to be something I’m not (like buduh, the grand inquisitor of my years of commenting who insists it is horrible to ask him what he used to say and under what name).
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:16 pm“what if it were Obama?”
You mean the Obama who could claim that he had no scandals in his administration simply because the media didn’t really cover the multitude of scandals.
jack burton (2e57fd) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:17 pm“The momentous news of ISIS’s defeat was greeted, in large part, with silence. Why?
The announcement came on Saturday. Just three days before the Alabama special election that transfixed the nation, and on the same day that President Trump fact-checked the Washington Post’s Dave Weigel, Iraq’s prime minister declared victory in the war against ISIS. Iraq — with indispensable American help — has regained control of its cities and its border with Syria. ISIS has been reduced to a shadow of its former self.
The victory isn’t confined to Iraq. American-allied forces control ISIS’s former capital in Syria, and the world’s largest jihadist army is gone. Bands of insurgents still prowl the countryside, and ISIS cells exist across the world, but the war against the “caliphate” is over. It’s been won.”
—- David French, National Review
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:17 pmThat LA Times link was a good read.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:17 pmfeel better Mr. noel I never did no skydive cause of i live in a whirl where people die just trying to grab their tennis racket out the back of the honda odyssey
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:21 pm“If at first you don’t succeed, maybe skydiving is not for you.” — Anonymous
Truer words have never been spoken, noel.
nk (dbc370) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:22 pmHaiku, Trump said he would eliminate ISIS over a year before your ‘mission accomplished’ stories, and those stories are brushing over a lot of reality. Radical Islamist unrest still controls a lot of land in Syria, still has a lot of support from Assad, and ISIS is still executing people.
Like I said, 20 miles per gallon isn’t that bad, but the promise Trump made with respect to ISIS was absurd and he didn’t keep it. You’re saying that what’s happened with ISIS is not bad, but it’s certainly not what Trump promised. All Trump really did was continue Obama’s successful 2016 efforts for a while.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:23 pmMeghan’s coward-pig daddy chief among them
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:25 pmMore David French…
“Remember how debates about ISIS dominated the presidential primaries? Remember how Donald Trump and Ted Cruz ratcheted up their rhetoric until they both seemed to promise that they’d commit war crimes like carpet bombing and torture to defeat the deadly threat? ISIS was often the most important and most prominent story in the world.
Now, however, the caliphate is a smoking ruin. It courted conflict with the great powers. It craved Armageddon, and it got its wish. No one knows ISIS’s exact casualty figures, but its fighters have died by the tens of thousands. I’ve spoken to men who were directly involved in the air campaign, and they have told me that the public doesn’t yet understand the sheer scale and ultimate effectiveness of the American attacks.
Yes, we withdrew from Iraq too soon. Yes, our counteroffensive against ISIS unfolded slowly. But we fought back, we trained and equipped allies, and we won.
This is one of the best stories of the young Trump administration. While many of the battles were fought under Obama, Trump pursued the enemy relentlessly. He delegated decision-making to commanders in the field, they fought within the laws of war, and they prevailed. Trump promised to defeat ISIS, and he has delivered a tremendous victory.”
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:28 pmBush was an OK president. A good wartime president. Not perfect, hardly (Medicare D, no child left behind, the DHS, failure to stop the dems mortgage for the unqualified scheme leading to the great recession). But way better than Obama, or Hillary would have been. A lot of his problems, like now, were due to a republican congress betraying their base.
He wasn’t in the same league as Reagan or Trump though. For one thing he wouldn’t stand up for himself. Too worried about image to fight the media narrative.
the Bas (3bcea0) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:30 pmI don’t think any sane person would call French a Trump fan… but hold on…
Many other opinion pieces out there, if interested.
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:31 pmThanks mr. happyfeet. Good point.
noel (b4d580) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:31 pmI’d vote for Beelzebub if it would keep Hillary Clinton out of the White House. – Ropelight
And I would vote for Hillary if it would keep Beelzebub out of the white house.
Dustin (2a8be7) — 5/11/2016 @ 6:25 am
https://patterico.com/2016/05/10/straight-outta-options/#comment-1885480
Sounds like a declaration to me. Now the argument will be over who “Beelzebub” represented to the individuals that said it.
BuDuh (fc15db) — 5/2/2018 @ 12:32 pm
You can’t keep The Devil out of a house built by slaves. There’s not enough salt or goofer dust in the world.
Goofer Dust
Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:32 pmSorry, Haiku, but even if we grant that ISIS is completely destroyed and will never execute another person like they did yesterday, Trump promised he could this in 30 days.
Instead, he simply continued the Obama strategy and pace, and yes, that worked pretty well, but nothing remarkable. Trump did not keep the grandiose promise. Your own links credit Obama equally, and Trump’s promises to wildly improve on Bush and Obama were BS.
time will tell if this problem of insurgent Islamofascists in Iraq and Syria is gone. But I’ll go ahead and predict more of the same for a long long time, no matter how much Trump’s fans want to say otherwise.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:34 pmI’m not a big fan of Saudi royal perverts but I’m starting to think the current Head Saudi Pedophile In Charge is kind of a game-changer.
I think I’d defer to Mr. narciso on this subject though
but the idea has taken hold no lie
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:38 pmThis is the problem with Haiku’s analysis. It’s obvious that anyone using the US Military can, eventually, defeat just about any military force. But Trump’s grandiose claims suggested he’s in a league beyond the other presidents.
Haiku’s many links actually prove Trump is about as good at this as Obama was. In fact, they actually credit Obama equally. ISIS lost about the same amount of land about as fast, and they aren’t really eliminated by any stretch of the imagination. But after many years of fighting, they are pushed into Syria. And as soon as we declare victory they will probably rebuild their armies and come back, unless Trump changes his mind and removes the Baathist Assad who is supporting them.
Did Trump do something that shows him to be in the greater league like Bas says? Nope. His BS promises and the inflated credit suggest he did, but this is what BS does.
By ignoring the specific promise Trump made, one can declare victory on anything. You can say he’s succeeded at immigration reform even if he grants amnesty to hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants. You can say he succeeded at beating Obamacare if he simply keeps complaining about it but has no legislative success, no ‘such great deal’ as promised to defeat it.
This is partisanship.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:43 pmBush Jr. was NOT a good wartime President. He over-reacted when he should stayed calm and measured and under-reacted when he should have seized opportunities. A lot of the stuff you are complaining about in the DOJ and the FBI are the result of his haphazard responses following 9/11. And for sure as there’s chimichangas in East LA, the deficit is.
nk (dbc370) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:43 pmYeah, I’ll grant this could be a big deal. But I don’t have a lot of trust in that regime.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:44 pmThirty injured in explosion at Jewish celebration in London…
just when you think Leggy Meggy’s perverted adopted country can’t get any nastier
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:45 pmSpeaking of chimichangas in LA, my daughter had dinner at a place called Yxta Cocina Mexicana by Skid Row when she was there last week. Do you know it, happyfeet?
nk (dbc370) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:48 pmQuestion for #NeverTrumpers: how in the name commonsense and reason can you continue to heap approbrium on the elected leader of our country when the liars and traitors left over from Obama’s thoroughly corrupt administration continue to pervert the justice system in order to drive Trump from office or to indict him for immaginary crimes?
Do you not see that your insane intransigence is undermining the rule of law, individual freedom, Constitutional government, and contributing to leftist efforts to restrict the right of citizens to elect their own leaders?
ropelight (649314) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:53 pmi do not
i did some memorable dining in LA but nothing like i do here
i was in LA pre-uber and so I went to any and every restaurant in my hood but outside of that i just hit a few random highlights, a lot of them on the company dime
but I bet it’s good
I’ve yet to find any kind of mexican here in Chicago what’s staked any kind of claim on my heart
and Topo was just silly (elk with mole sauce are you cereal)
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:53 pmDo you not see that your insane intransigence is undermining the rule of law, individual freedom, Constitutional government, and contributing to leftist efforts to restrict the right of citizens to elect their own leaders?
No.
nk (dbc370) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:55 pmLol. No.
I suspect these guys would scoff if an Obama fan said that a few years back to… Megabirther Trump.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:57 pm#NotMyMeme
The Nunes memo was a dishonest propaganda stunt to provide Trump’s credulous worshipers another helping of lies to regurgitate all over each other, and I never said anything other than that.
I’m glad you’re comfortable with Trump threatening his own Justice Department with “the powers of the presidency” to personally obstruct an investigation directly involving him and his closest relatives and henchmen.
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:57 pmThe Fed sold America’s soul to the Saudi’s after Nixon nixed the gold standard. Now our fiat currency is based on the petrodollar. This has caused the deep state elite into some rash acts.
the Bas (3bcea0) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:58 pmWith more desperation to come I’m sure.
the Bas (3bcea0) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:59 pmNo, they credit Obama but to say they credit him equally is disingenuous.
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:00 pmThat’s your habit of mischaracterization to fit your narrative coming through, Dustin.
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:01 pm266
Kishnevi (7bc26d) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:04 pmUnlikely to be terrorists
https://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/general/1515087/watch-10-injured-after-lag-baomer-fire-explodes-in-stamford-hill-was-it-caused-by-fuel-or-a-smartphone.html
“Sorry, Haiku, but even if we grant that ISIS is completely destroyed and will never execute another person like they did yesterday, Trump promised he could this in 30 days.“
Was that an American that was executed, Dustin? I’d be surprised if it was. Decapitation of Americans happened all the time during Obama’s second term.
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:05 pmmy favorite thing about east-of-mississippi-river mexican food is the hamburguesa, which really wasn’t a thing in LA
I’ve had it in brooklyn and here in chicago at latinicity and a couple other random places
here’s the general idea, but i had to pick one that’s representative of my experience it’s this one
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:07 pmoopers *if* i had to pick one
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:07 pm“You’re saying that what’s happened with ISIS is not bad”
No, I’m saying that rational people think what has happened is very good. That is what I and many others are saying
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:09 pmWTF… you damage your reputation with that sort of nonsense.
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:10 pmNuthin from nuthin but Tucker Carlson has Zippy the Pinhead on his show at 5:12pm Pacific (I’m watching a recording)
No… wait… it’s just Chris Hahn, progressive radio host… wow.
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:13 pmchedda burger has one called la tula
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:14 pmwas the fuel stored in the rear compartment of a honda odyssey?
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:19 pmHappy, now you know how I felt when I saw rice and black beans in the burrito in SF and DC. Chicago Mexican suffers from its proximity to big Ag – larded beans, cheese like it’s going out of style, generous meat.
urbanleftbehind (24e2ff) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:21 pmBush can be criticized for less than perfect wartime decisions in hindsight. You don’t get the benefit of hindsight when making those decisions, though. The question that should be asked is whether he disregarded sound military advice or failed to meet reasonable requests for resources, and its not clear to me that he ever did.
He is more open to criticism, IMO, for not identifying unsound advice, particularly in regard to the size of the occupation force. I would say, moreover, and he admits in his book, that insufficient attention was devoted to the post-war situation, and this is one area where he could have done better.
The deficit was under well under control through 2007, and hardly excessive even in 2008, when the economy began to falter. Budget deficits as % of GDP, by fiscal year.
2002: -1.5
2003: -3.3
2004: -3.4
2005: -2.5
2006: -1.8
2007: -1.1
2008: -3.1
Every Dubya budget had a smaller deficit, as a % of GDP, than the one Spanky just signed (~4% of GDP).
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:22 pm“Forget about all the death threats against my family. I want to know who cost us so much money, who crushed our kids, who forced us out of our home, all because you lost an election. I want to know because God Damn you to Hell.”
—- Michael Caputo
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:22 pm@144. She’s a blip, Mr. Feet.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:24 pmGiuliani just admitted on CNN that Trump repaid Cohen for Stormy’s $130K.
Just one brazen lie after another…
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:26 pmlarded beans, cheese like it’s going out of style, generous meat
yes yes and the burritos here are obscenely bloated and engorged with rice
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:26 pmDavid Goodall: Scientist, 104, begins trip to end his life
BBC News 8h ago
the BBC like the rest of that tacky fascist little island can butterfly my shrimp
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:58 pm
He’s doing The Socratic Method all up in it.
*I got my your/you’re mixed up mocking narciso. I shouldn’t mock narciso because when I mock narciso it looks like I’m mocking narciso but I’m not.
Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:27 pm🙂
love that!
(see that’s funny Mr. Jester cause Socrates committed suicide lol)
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:29 pmMeanwhile Rudy proves he has dementia.
Kishnevi (7bc26d) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:30 pmOr perhaps revenge for not being picked as AG.
“Emmet Flood, a serious attorney who presumably cares about his reputation, should be asked–try him at Williams & Connolly, 202-434-5300–whether he agrees the investigation is a witch hunt, and if he thinks it appropriate for the White House to call a DOJ investigation that.”
—- Bill Kristol, bon vivant
Colonel Haiku (af8791) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:31 pmRudy’s more than a match for herr mueller and his sleazy von slutstein wife
he knows people
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:32 pmCorrection, Giuliani admitted it in a Hannity interview on Fox; CNN just reported what was said in the interview.
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:32 pmWe need Melania’s reaction on this.
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:33 pmMr. Dave why do you take so much joy (obscene glee) out of humiliating of first lady, Melania Trump
that’s not america it’s some dark-ass land of misfit toys psychodrama
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:36 pmUGH humiliating *our* first lady that should be
brb
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:37 pmI’d suggest that it’s Trump who humiliated her, if anyone. She knew what she was getting into, it’s not like his penchant for adultery was a big secret.
Davethulhu (7e7722) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:40 pmGiuliani just admitted on CNN that Trump repaid Cohen for Stormy’s $130K.
The worser part is that Cohen is not the most flaccid of Trump’s boobs. The “best people”. Right.
nk (dbc370) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:41 pmoops so sorry try again
President Trump is nothing if not a gentleman.
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:42 pm248
He has no plan to remove Assad from power …
That’s good since it would be a bad idea.
James B. Shearer (a9b467) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:44 pmThe firehose runneth over – more classic Trump stupidity, pettiness and dishonesty!
Great news for the families, right? Who cares, what matters is it’s great news for Donald Trump!
Just one problem with Trump’s childish dig at Obama:
So, according to Trump, “as everybody is aware”, “the previous administration” was trying to get two of the captives released even before they were even arrested!
That’s pretty damn impressive, and it seems to me “the previous administration” deserves some credit for trying to help solve Donald Trump’s problems.
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:46 pm@303. President Trump is nothing if not a gentleman.
Not according to Ms. Giuliani, Mr. Feet:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBKu9OJ8Ltk
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:50 pmOMG HOW DO I UN-SEE THAT?
Dave (445e97) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:54 pm@302. Giuliani just admitted on CNN that Trump repaid Cohen for Stormy’s $130K.
Was he wearing Dior or did he go with the Versace this evening?
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:55 pm@307. “Really love your peaches wanna shake your tree.”
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/2/2018 @ 7:56 pmDo not go to the Urban Dictionary for information regarding this delicacy. You will not come away enlightened.
Anon Y. Mous (6cc438) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:01 pmbasically the muy authentico ones are the ones with no vegetable except maybe some carmelized onion
it’s very much a meat cheese and bread sort of thing
kind of craving one now
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:06 pmI hope the officers are called Jedi masters.
the Bas (3bcea0) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:13 pmThe Mormons are a matriarchy.
nk (dbc370) — 5/2/2018 @ 4:59 pm
Are any men supporting a stay at home wife victims of the matriarchy?
Jerry Clower The She Coon of Women’s Lib
Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 5/2/2018 @ 8:19 pmSpeaking of chimichangas in LA, my daughter had dinner at a place called Yxta Cocina Mexicana by Skid Row when she was there last week. Do you know it, happyfeet?
nk (dbc370) — 5/2/2018 @ 6:48 pm
Park Avenue leads to Skid Row
Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:17 pmmr nk, did your daughter see sign that said Coming Soon More Skid Row
Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 5/2/2018 @ 9:19 pmAssad’s regime is a major part of the regional problem and a direct contributor to the expansion of ISIS. His immediate neighbours are understandably fed up with the refugee crises created by Baathist brutality and in several instances (notably Afrin) have taken police actions to mitigate the chaos, deliberate or accidental, that his misrule has begotten.
Whether or not Trump is planning to do away with Assad, it’s entirely likely that the Assad family won’t be ruling the country in the long-term, even if the Baathist state survives all this.
JP (699888) — 5/3/2018 @ 4:50 am78. Dustin do you believe the crap you type or just trying to see how hyperbolic you can be?
“It’s impossible to dialogue with someone who pretends they didn’t mean what they said.”
“There’s nothing Trump can do that they won’t respond to with “Democrats!” Of course, as soon as it’s time to criticize democrats, anything the GOP did wrong is irrelevant.”
My personal partial list of things Trump could do that would be unacceptable and I would look for him to be impeached;
1. Weaponize the IRS against average citizens to win reelection.
2. Sell weapons to South American Drug Cartels.
3. Trade terrorist for Army Deserters.
4. Fly Iran ton’s of cash under the cover of night.
5. Allow hostile foreign nations to acquire American Assets and Natural Resources like Uranium.
In regards to your items, sometimes A) is true, see any party that opposed Communist, Socialist, Nazis, etc. Yes parties can be demonically evil. Forming an organization like the KKK to suppress political opponents and a race is demonically evil, scary that you can’t see that.
B) No Trump supporter has ever said this, see my list above. Stop beating strawmen, nothing impressive about it. Your trying to subject Trump Supporters to your list of things you care about, that’s your problem not ours, don’t lie about it and pretend your list is all inclusive.
Nate Ogden (223c65) — 5/3/2018 @ 6:05 am151. Besides maybe Carson, which I doubt, what other Republican candidate could have opened this bridge?
“A poll taken on April 22, 2018 had Trump’s approval rating among black men at 11 percent, while the same poll on April 29, 2018 pegged the approval rating at 22 percent.”
Nate Ogden (223c65) — 5/3/2018 @ 6:39 amIt cannot have escaped your notice that Trump was elected because he was a disruptor – and not Hillary, but mostly the first thing.
You don’t have to like him or fall in line, but if you want something different next go round you’re going to have to argue something different than Trump is unworthy.
SarahW (3164f0) — 5/3/2018 @ 9:45 amSorry, I can’t respond to every outraged Trump fan in thread, but I did want to note that I’m amazed that Haiku mischaracterized Trump’s campaign pledges to such a radical extreme that taking 18 times as long to accomplish maybe half the task he said he would, is a kept promise, and then complains that I’m mischaracterizing his own quotes that give Obama shared credit for this limited accomplishment.
It’s extreme enough that every other broken promise was ignored, butthe Trump supporting cherry-picked example of a kept promise really cannot be honestly characterized as kept. I didn’t set the terms. Candidate Trump did. If his promise was not possible, that’s still a broken promise, but given the newer threads, I understand that Trump’s dishonesty is not that important to many of his fans. They just don’t care.
SarahW, always awesome to see you commenting. I agree Trump is a disruptive element and many people support him simply because they are mad at the world, much like in that idiocracy movie. If Trump wants my vote, he will indeed have to be worthy of it. I can only imagine how much better a disrupter of the status quo Ted Cruz would have been. Trump, a lifelong Hillary supporter and friend, is not that much different from electing Hillary, with the sole exception of his great judicial nominations. On spending, immigration, Obamacare, and especially on foreign policy, Trump is very similar to Hillary. Just look as his North Korea nonsense, which is literally exactly what Madeline Albright tried (and failed with).
Dustin (ba94b2) — 5/3/2018 @ 12:37 pmTed Cruz is a sleazy DOJ swampturd
that’s where harvardtrash ted made his bones
he’s so dirty with DOJ corruption his fingers smell like Rosytwat
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/3/2018 @ 12:42 pmA demonstration of the firehose effect.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/3/2018 @ 4:44 pmpuppy got a bah good puppy
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/3/2018 @ 4:50 pmHa!
Dave (445e97) — 5/3/2018 @ 5:06 pm316
… His immediate neighbours are understandably fed up with the refugee crises created by Baathist brutality and in several instances (notably Afrin) have taken police actions to mitigate the chaos, deliberate or accidental, that his misrule has begotten.
This is complete nonsense. Afrin (which had previously had been spared most of the fighting) was taken over by Islamic extremists supported by Turkey and it’s Kurdish inhabitants were expelled. This added to the chaos and refugee problems, it didn’t mitigate anything.
James B. Shearer (a9b467) — 5/3/2018 @ 5:49 pmThere are almost 3.5 million Syrian refugees in Turkey. Some of them are Arabs, Turkmen, and Assyrians who were displaced by wholly Kurdish or Kurdish-dominated militant outfits that are affiliated with (if not de facto fronts for) the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, a NATO-defined terrorist organization.
The Turkish-backed “Islamic extremists” to which you refer exist because Assad declared war on Syrian civilians; their ranks are made up of displaced persons that are the direct result of mass murder and forced migration by the Baath regime. The Arabs and others being “resettled” in these areas (where as you point out, thousands of Kurdish civilians have been driven out by Turkish-backed rebel dependencies) had been evicted from neighbourhoods elsewhere in Syria, usually by Assad and sometimes by independent Kurdish militants.
For all its heavy-handedness, the Turkish state has a legitimate complaint that Assad’s cruelty and weakness has left an entire swath of its border territory at risk from depredations by a violently hostile, deeply illiberal, and thoroughly anti-Turkish set of groups that will in all probability produce alumni that will pose a threat to Europe generally and NATO allies specifically. There would be no Afrin intervention without the baleful incompetence and savage legacy of the Baath party.
Even accounting for this kind of unpleasantness, the various Turkish-Kurdish disputes fade into pales insignificance compared to what Assad’s troops and Iranian-supported militias have inflicted on the rest of the country. But yes, by all means, let’s keep Assad – as he crams more people into his concentration camps, as he feeds his crematoria, as he guns down more deserters, as he invites in Hezbollah and the Iranians, as lets more of the worst Islamic extremists that the Turks are blamed for out of his jails so they can traumatise the rest of the Levant, and as he helps maim and cripple Iraq’s unfortunate Sunni Arab and Kurdish communities once more.
JP (699888) — 5/4/2018 @ 4:07 amAssad’s regime is a major part of the regional problem and…
Or the Iranian regime is a major part of the regional problem, or Islamic extremism is a major part of the regional problem, or on and on and on…The aggregate values, beliefs, attitudes, etc of the people of the region ARE the regional problem. Until enough of ALL the evil factions are killed or driven into hiding/cowering in fear AND the few rational elements in a position of some relative prestige (hahahahaha but who am I kidding?) can find the space to overcome the tribalism that is still quite thick in those societies nothing will change. It’s just rearranging deck chairs on a rats-infested-with-plague infested Titanic. Icebergs have a purpose in God’s great plan as well.
Skorcher (094b61) — 5/4/2018 @ 4:58 am326
For all its heavy-handedness, the Turkish state has a legitimate complaint that Assad’s cruelty and weakness has left an entire swath of its border territory at risk from depredations by a violently hostile, deeply illiberal, and thoroughly anti-Turkish set of groups that will in all probability produce alumni that will pose a threat to Europe generally and NATO allies specifically. There would be no Afrin intervention without the baleful incompetence and savage legacy of the Baath party.
So the Turks support an insurgency against Assad that weakens his regime until it loses control of northern Syria. Kurdish militia heavily backed by the United States fill some of the power vacuum. Blaming Assad’s “weakness” for this doesn’t seem like a legitimate complaint to me.
James B. Shearer (a9b467) — 5/4/2018 @ 7:44 pmBut Assad didn’t have control of Afrin, nor did Turkish-sponsored rebels, until early this year. The PKK and its Kurdish umbrella groups did. The Turks didn’t support the PKK and have been reluctant to assist any Syrian Kurdish outfits, who were the authority in these areas, and for good reason: those outfits have a habit of imposing their ideology on Kurds and non-Kurds in areas they occupy, and they have sought to displace more moderate Kurdish parties and bodies (like those that exist in northern Iraq) with whom Turkey has decent working relations.
Assad lost control of northern Syria six years ago because the SDF and the various fronts for the PKK took control of it as pro-regime units withdrew to fight uprisings in Damascus, Aleppo and Homs. Assad was in no position to challenge their seizure of Afrin, he hasn’t been able to for years, and may never be able to, considering how seven years of conflict and desertion has bled regime forces.
This is at least partly his father’s fault: in conjunction with the Soviets, Assad Sr. provided sanctuary and training to the PKK and allowed it to foment further trouble in NATO member and regional power Turkey, with the understanding that Ocalan and his cronies would limit their militancy to the Kurdish areas of Turkey. We see how well that worked out.
Occasional US assistance for the various PKK fronts in much of Syria is for the most part transactional, and should remain so. The US and its allies should remain skeptical of the viability and the direction of PKK-related Syrian Kurdish groups, particularly since they rely so heavily on asayish to suppress dissent and forcibly conscript young men and women into their ranks.
JP (699888) — 5/5/2018 @ 4:04 am