Patterico's Pontifications

1/14/2018

The Two Real Problems with Donald Trump’s “Sh*tholes” Comment

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 10:00 am



The Sunday shows have revived the controversy about President Donald J. Trump’s “sh*tholes” comment. So before we close the book on the comment, I thought it would be worth taking a step back and evaluating what the real problems with the comment were.

First, let’s talk about what the problems aren’t.

The issue is not that the President used the s-word in private. All presidents and most other humans curse in private.

The issue is not that there are indeed countries in the world that can be described as “sh*tholes.” Many people have tried to make this the issue, so that Trump can be defended as fearlessly speaking the truth about what other people won’t say. Look at the physical conditions of this country! Sh*thole! Look at the way that country is run! Sh*thole!

True enough. But not the point. You don’t get to demonstrate that sh*tholes exist, do a victory dance, and dust off your hands — because you have missed the point.

The point is that the fact that a country is a bad place to live does not mean its people are bad people. The fact that a country is a sh*thole does not mean that immigrants from that country will be sh*tty citizens.

Iran is a terrible country. Cuba is an awful country. The American citizens I have met who are immigrants from Iran or Cuba are some of the most solid Americans I know. They are passionate about the ideals of this country in a way that few native-born citizens are. They embody the spirit of American in a deeply significant way. Here’s Ilya Shapiro making a similar point about the USSR:

The rhetorical bomb there overstates the case to draw a parallel to a commonly used phrase, but the point is still clear: immigrants from every country on Earth add value to America, regardless of the country they come from. India is not a particularly clean or prosperous country. But India sends us STEM geniuses all the time. I could go on and on.

And the President’s comment sends a message to American citizens who immigrated from “sh*thole countries” in general, and African countries in particular, that they are not wanted. That is not presidential, and what’s more, it’s not right.

We can set different standards for the type of people we want to allow into our country. We can insist that they bring something to the table, rather than simply coming because they have relatives here. That’s fair. But we shouldn’t smear the entirety of the citizens of any country or set of countries in the process. That’s not “virtue signaling.” It’s simple common sense and decency.

The second problem with Trump’s sh*thole statement is what it reveals about the honesty of the people who attended the meeting. You don’t have to believe every word of what Sanctimonious Dick Durbin said to know that, if Donald Trump referred to any countries as “sh*tholes,” that would be an attention-grabbing moment that people would remember. Yet we see people who have an incentive to maintain a good relationship with Donald Trump coming out and saying that … they just don’t remember whether it was said. Watch this clip, for instance, of DHS Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen saying she doesn’t remember Trump saying that precise exact specific phrase:

WALLACE: You were in that meeting in Oval Office. Did the President say that ?

NIELSEN: I don’t recall him saying that exact phrase. I think he has been clear, and I would certainly say undoubtedly, the President will use, will continue to use strong language when it comes to this issue, because he feels very passionate about it.

. . . .

WALLACE: I can understand you either saying they were said or they were not said. It is pretty shocking language, and to say, “I don’t recall” seems implausible. If the President of the United States used the word blankhole, talking about countries in the Oval Office, or didn’t say it, I would know.

NIELSEN: I understand the question. It was an impassioned conversation. I don’t recall that specific phrase being used. That’s all I can say about that.

If it didn’t happen, she would say: “I was there. It didn’t happen. Nothing like that happened.”

She’s either lying, or using a Clintonian parsing of “that specific phrase” to try to mislead the citizens of the country she serves. And the same goes for Republican Sens. Tom Cotton and David Perdue, who also used the “We do not recall the President saying these comments specifically” gambit, combining a professed lack of memory with the weaselly “specifically” caveat.

Let’s state the problem starkly: These people are not being honest.

Look: I understand why they are lying or dissembling. If they admit the truth of what Trump said, Trump will fly into a rage. Nielsen would lose her job if she told the truth. Cotton and Perdue would find themselves personae non grata with Trump, who might run to Twitter and set his base against these Senators. The easy thing to do is to sacrifice what seems to them like just a small bit of their integrity — to find a way to wriggle out of the unpleasant situation without upsetting Dear Leader.

I can already hear Trump supporters telling me to get over it; politicians and political appointees lie, all the time. And that is absolutely true. Shall we abandon all political commentary then? Shall we cease pointing out lies, and rationalize our failure by arguing that everybody lies, so why bother noting it when it happens?

As you ponder that question, understand that the Trump supporter’s stance that he doesn’t care about lies is itself a lie. Tomorrow — hell, probably later today! — that very same Trump supporter will be whining about the lies allegedly told by one of Trump’s opponents, whether it’s Hillary Clinton or Michael Wolff or somebody in the #FAKENEWSMEDIA. Just hours later, lies will be important again. So spare me your “everybody lies” argument, because it is based on a political stance (“I’m too worldly to care about politicians’ lies!”) that is itself dishonest. All this argument is, is a partisan hack’s way of saying “don’t apply to me and to the politicians I like the same standards that I apply to others.” Sorry, guy, not happening.

These, to me, are the problems with Trump’s sh*tholes comment. I suppose there could be others. Happy Sunday!

UPDATE: Cotton and Perdue are now denying the comment more forcefully:

A Republican senator who attended a Thursday immigration meeting at the White House forcefully denied on Sunday that President Trump had used the phrase “shithole countries” in describing Haiti and African nations, saying a Democratic senator’s account of the session was “a gross misrepresentation.”

Senator David Perdue, Republican of Georgia, said on ABC’s “This Week” that Mr. Trump “did not use that word,” and accused Senator Richard J. Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, of distorting what the president had said at the meeting, which included more than a half-dozen lawmakers.

Senator Tom Cotton, an Arkansas Republican, joined Mr. Perdue later in the morning in questioning Mr. Durbin.

“I didn’t hear that word either,” he said on CBS’s “Face the Nation.” “And I was sitting no further away from Donald Trump than Dick Durbin was.”

I’d say it’s time to ask Lindsey Graham directly. I have not seen the segments, so I don’t know if the Senators were asked why their initial statement was so mealy-mouthed.

UPDATE x2: Rich Lowry says his sources tell him the word Trump said was “sh*thouse” and not “sh*thole.” Now run back to Perdue, Cotton, and Nielsen, and ask them if he said that. If they totally dodge the question, you’ll know why they got so cute about denying remembering that exact precise phrase. If Lowry is right, their comments are not honesty, but Clintonian nonsense. Non-partisans have been able to tell they were hiding something.

258 Responses to “The Two Real Problems with Donald Trump’s “Sh*tholes” Comment”

  1. “the President’s comment sends a message to American citizens who immigrated from “sh*thole countries” in general, and African countries in particular, that they are not wanted. That is not presidential, and what’s more, it’s not right”.

    Exactly. How can anyone disagree with that?

    noel (b4d580)

  2. As we saw with Jennifer Palmeri, the real issue here is that Dems want people from sh!tholes because they believe it will give them electoral supremacy.

    That’s it. End stop.

    NJRob (b00189)

  3. It’s been percolating in the GOP for some time now as the suspect nations swallowed WMDs from Iraq, whole and unquestioning. Of course it’s just the 35cents developing their Ends justify Means ideology, but the entire Republican party has been irretrievably been led down that extinction road.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  4. there’s no proof he even said it

    it’s starting to look like this is just a drawn-out fake news wank fantasy for those CNN bottom boys

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  5. …suspect minions..

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  6. Jeff Flake said it was true based on reports from attendees..

    But he’s a flake

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  7. but was worrisome is how virtue signalers are needing their fix more and more often

    they’re like those monkeys in that cage where pressing the one bar gives them tasty monkey kibble and the other one gives heroin

    you say you wanna revolution monkey?

    oh yeah

    we all wanna change the whirl

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  8. ugh that should say but *what’s* worrisome

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  9. Flake says many things mostly related from el comandante.

    narciso (21eb6d)

  10. Survey after survey finds that immigrants are more likely to support a larger state, including things such as hate speech laws and race-based affirmative action that are incompatible with the Constitution. (The Constitution doesn’t actually constrain the daily functioning of the state anymore, but good job by Ilya for trying.) But how many other immigrants are committed to defending the Constitution? How many other immigrants can read the Constitution?

    Mike P. (dddb3b)

  11. Yes, njRob. That’s it. There is no universal right to emigrate to the USA. This country faces significant challenges and it will need the best and brightest of those who wish to come here to help overcome them. Chain migration and quotas are not the answer. So-called “systems” are not the main issue, the issue is culture… and there are many around the world that should not be given entry into ours. We need to secure our borders and then address immigration policy, in that order.

    Personally, since Durbin is so quick to run to microphones and cameras, I’d like him to disclose the email (or other) exchanges he had with the mental midget who shot Scalise and the DC cops in that attack last year.

    Now… on to the next outrage!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  12. Agreed Colonel. Glad to have you around.

    NJRob (b00189)

  13. how to do blue model governance all up in it tip #26

    Gov. Jerry Brown this week predicted that his 2012 pension law will survive union challenges in court and blow a hole in the so-called “California rule” that has restricted changes to public employee retirement plans for half a
    century.

    “When the next recession comes around, the governor will have the option of considering pension cutbacks for the first time in a long time,” Brown said at a news conference this week where he unveiled his 2018-19 budget plan.

    wait for a recession to do pension cuts!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  14. 11, considering the Senators previously professed love of the wooden baseball bat (I posted it the Durbin thread from Friday), he may have at best been duped into providing practice logistics to Hodgkinson or at worst been grooming this guy for the right time to pounce.

    urbanleftbehind (1d0126)

  15. Well good on them, maybe the Calperians won’t be so blase about illegal immigration.

    urbanleftbehind (1d0126)

  16. Ah, so the problem with the “sh**hole” comments is that it shows Trump’s lack of understanding on immigrants from countries many people would describe as same?

    That’s strange because I’ve just witnessed a 24 hr wall-to-wall msm presentation that it shows Trump’s racism.

    “Among the celebrities who said they would move if Trump won the election were: Chelsea Handler to Spain; Lena Dunham to Vancouver; Barbara Streisand to Australia or Canada; and Snoop Dogg to Canada. Notice that none of them identified their final destinations as the slums of El Salvador.”

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/the-media-dont-like-shithole-countries-either/article/2645805

    MS-13 ain’t sneaking in from Poland or Japan folks.

    harkin (8256c3)

  17. The point is that the fact that a country is a bad place to live does not mean its people are bad people. The fact that a country is a sh*thole does not mean that immigrants from that country will be sh*tty citizens.

    So what you are saying is we aren’t allowed to make judgments about groups which are true on average even if there are individual exceptions? Some convicted felons are nice people so we aren’t allowed to take points off for being a convicted felon?

    And many countries are bad places to live because they are full of bad people (or more precisely have a higher than average fraction of bad people). Just like bad neighborhoods.

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  18. This country faces significant challenges and it will need the best and brightest of those who wish to come here to help overcome them.

    I’d prefer hard-working people with common sense. Like the sort of people who, when they find themselves living in a sh*thole, try their hardest to escape. Have you seen what kind of sh*thole the “best and brightest” in the EU have been turning Western Europe into?

    Jerryskids (cfad51)

  19. My problem with the sh!thole comment is that the sh!thead called it “tough talk”.

    “No, Demented Donna, that’s sh!t talk. A sissy-boy trying to fake toughness in order to bully. Tough talk would have been that there would be no amnesty unless it was accompanied by severe restrictions on family unity visas that would prevent the DREAMers from being anchor babies.”

    “Moreover, you orange-skinned pansy, you not only lost the high ground in the negotiations you also lost the bargaining advantage. Everybody is talking “sh!thole” and not how unfair chain migration is to aliens who do not have relatives already here. Sh!thead!”

    nk (dbc370)

  20. 17… I’m thinking the BandB from India and a few other countries… don’t imagine that many Western Euros want to come here, JerrySkids. But I could be mistaken.

    And I don’t think the qualities you write of are exclusive.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  21. 1

    “the President’s comment sends a message to American citizens who immigrated from “sh*thole countries” in general, and African countries in particular, that they are not wanted. That is not presidential, and what’s more, it’s not right”.

    Exactly. How can anyone disagree with that?

    I can disagree with it. There are plenty of people I don’t want immigrating to the United States and if some idiot lets them in anyway I don’t see why I have to pretend I wanted them here. And if these people turn out to be liabilities rather than assets I don’t see why I am not allowed to point that out. Especially if that might encourage more sensible decisions about who to let in going forward.

    It’s nice for people in charge of immigration policy if no one is ever allowed to criticize their admission decisions but I don’t see why the rest of us should go along with that.

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  22. We should not be focused on country of origin, except as one of many factors that go into an individualized merit-based set of immigration criteria designed to select for those who will most benefit America and who have the best chances of individual success themselves.

    A large chunk of the country thinks with its (bleeding) heart on the subject of immigration, and even many of those who don’t nevertheless think of this in terms of conferring the greatest possible humanitarian benefit upon the potential immigrants. Arguing over countries of origin — as if that were a useful determinant on its own, upon the basis of which we could make individual immigration decisions — is a diversion, a sideshow, an example of fuzzy thinking, that detracts from the ability of anyone on the right to persuade these people to consider a merit-based immigration system instead.

    Alas, Trump — who should be the clearest thinker and ablest persuader, as putative head of his party and of immigration conservatives everywhere — is among the very fuzziest thinkers even if one doesn’t impute racist motivations to him. (I generally don’t, because I think he’s too narcissistic and lacking in empathy to be a racist.)

    Beldar (fa637a)

  23. No, the problem isn’t whether he said or not or who’s offended because he said it or not, it’s that the parrties (likely Durbin and Graham) who made it an issue anonymously so they could make it a bigger issue on camera have destroyed any possibility of reasonable compromise and knew it when they did it. Nobody gains from this except the open-borders non-enforcement faction of immigration reformers. The rest as you say is how they all talk behind closed doors.

    crazy (d99a88)

  24. the more illegal immies from squalid poophole countries we get the faster the california pension bomb explodes all up in it

    34%

    Of the nation’s welfare recipients live in California but only …

    12%

    … of the U.S. population resides there

    poophole all up in it yay!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  25. Kye Lee (kyelee1952@verizon.net)To:you Details

    Mia Love is taking Little Dick Turban;s word over Trump’s..
    From her own website:

    “Her parents fled Haiti to escape from political corruption taking with them
    the powerful hope that comes from the possibility of freedom.”

    https://love4utah.com/about/

    yet it’s racist to say Haiti is a sh!thole…

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  26. Three classic tasks for robots are those that are dirty, dangerous, and dull.

    wow these are the same “classic tasks” for illegal immies from poopholes!

    the boolean diagram is a circle on top of a circle to where you only see one circle!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  27. Mia Love wants attention so bad them u-tosser people is scared she’s gonna bungee topless from the arches

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  28. Assumed he said it. Word for word.

    The problem is that it’s taken out of context and that such is leaked.

    Looking at it that way … he was dealing with the Norwegian gov official for 3-4 days just before… and given that he wants a merit based immigration system clearly he expects beneficial legal immigration to come from all sides, but given the merit system more people from countries which have none of the classifiers he uses for the s-no er (corruption, civil unrest, poverty, racial discrimination systems) .

    Martin (585926)

  29. Patterico (115b1f)

  30. It was a one off colloquial comment. It was never meant for public consumption. Durbin realized he was not going to get the immigration deal that would benefit Democrat interest groups, so he decided to tattle to the media that Trump said a bad word.

    The media, of course, amped the outrage machine up to help Democrats damage the president.

    That’s what is going on here.

    So Trump is insensitive, callous, and some say racist because he called a country a shithole.
    I’m not sure how calling a country a shithole is a racial slur, but that’s where we are. There’s a video of Lindsey Graham saying in an open session of the Senate that people flooding across the southern border were leaving countries he described as “hellholes”. No outrage ensued. Jeff Sessions, another person the media accuses of racism, called Graham out.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LR–os0jGr0

    At any rate, we knew Trump was crude, brash, insensitive and callous when he was elected. He is who he is. I’m so tired of all the swells hand ringing about “norms” or whatever. If you don’t like him, then win an election. Primary him or vote Democrat in 2020.

    Scott (fa165a)

  31. UPDATE: Cotton and Perdue are now denying the comment more forcefully:

    A Republican senator who attended a Thursday immigration meeting at the White House forcefully denied on Sunday that President Trump had used the phrase “shithole countries” in describing Haiti and African nations, saying a Democratic senator’s account of the session was “a gross misrepresentation.”

    Senator David Perdue, Republican of Georgia, said on ABC’s “This Week” that Mr. Trump “did not use that word,” and accused Senator Richard J. Durbin, Democrat of Illinois, of distorting what the president had said at the meeting, which included more than a half-dozen lawmakers.

    Senator Tom Cotton, an Arkansas Republican, joined Mr. Perdue later in the morning in questioning Mr. Durbin.

    “I didn’t hear that word either,” he said on CBS’s “Face the Nation.” “And I was sitting no further away from Donald Trump than Dick Durbin was.”

    I’d say it’s time to ask Lindsey Graham directly. I have not seen the segments, so I don’t know if the Senators were asked why their initial statement was so mealy-mouthed.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  32. So Trump is insensitive, callous, and some say racist because he called a country a shithole.
    I’m not sure how calling a country a shithole is a racial slur, but that’s where we are.

    No matter what you do, don’t respond to the actual arguments from the post.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  33. At any rate, we knew Trump was crude, brash, insensitive and callous when he was elected. He is who he is. I’m so tired of all the swells hand ringing about “norms” or whatever. If you don’t like him, then win an election. Primary him or vote Democrat in 2020.

    Translation: criticism of a sitting President is illegitimate.

    That’s a fair translation of the utterly insane opinion you just expressed.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  34. It was a one off colloquial comment. It was never meant for public consumption.

    Time for chucklehead to learn that if you say something inflammatory in front of a Democrat U.S. Senator, it will be repeated to the press.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  35. In the “olden days”, we did not have welfare. If people, for whatever reason, did not want/were not capable to stay in the US, many returned home (fuzzy number alert):
    http://www.exodus2013.co.uk/immigrants-who-returned-home/

    Prior to the 19th century, return migration was far less frequent. Travel was expensive, time-consuming and dangerous, and immigrants tended to settle since returning was so difficult. In the late 19th century, trips home became more frequent, and by the early 20th century, we begin to see clear statistical patterns of return migration.

    For example, some scholars have estimated that a full third of American immigrants returned home. During certain periods, such as the Great Depression, return trips were even higher.

    Interestingly, however, immigrants from the UK had a fairly low return rate compared to many other nationalities. English immigrants returned at a rate of about 10.4%, while only 6.3% of Irish immigrants ever returned home.

    And, a few maps listing sh*thole (open defecation) countries by UN Data:
    http://riceinstitute.org/blog/new-maps-which-country-has-the-most-open-defecation-in-the-world/

    BfC (5517e8)

  36. Yep, same old game. Dump on the President just as you dumped on the candidate last year, criticizing him for things he didn’t say.

    Trump said nothing at all about immigrants. He said (if he DID say, maybe he didn’t … in which case, he should have) COUNTRIES. But you hear “immigrants”. You’re as perverted as Maureen Dowd. She can hear the damnedest things which were never said, too … and made a career of it.

    Hell, the way you prance about, one would think you’d have something the President DID say that you could whine about.

    Apparently not.

    tom swift (239367)

  37. Yep, same old game. Dump on the President just as you dumped on the candidate last year, criticizing him for things he didn’t say.

    Trump said nothing at all about immigrants. He said (if he DID say, maybe he didn’t … in which case, he should have) COUNTRIES. But you hear “immigrants”. You’re as perverted as Maureen Dowd. She can hear the damnedest things which were never said, too … and made a career of it.

    Hell, the way you prance about, one would think you’d have something the President DID say that you could whine about.

    Apparently not.

    Let’s all pretend that the remark was not made in the context of deciding who should be allowed to immigrate! That way we get to ignore the real argument and pretend that critics are being unfair! All it takes is a fundamentally dishonest assumption, and we’re off to the races. GO!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  38. Is there anyone — anyone at all — who wants to defend Trump against the actual arguments made in the post? Not against strawman arguments that the post already explained are not the real issue. Not phony arguments that ignore the context of the comments. But a real, genuine, honest defense against the actual argument made in my post?

    Or is the Venn diagram of “people who support Donald Trump no matter what” and “people who can’t argue honestly” one big circle?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  39. Why do we bother with things that aren’t said, instead ofpolicies and personnel that are being implemented in reality. And got intrusions against persons private as well as public. Based on spurious gtounds

    narciso (d1f714)

  40. Now as to policy preferences, you want on balanced skilled or unskilled, schooled or less educated.

    narciso (d1f714)

  41. Two things to keep in mind: Anomaly and hoax. In my mind the “sh1th0le” kerfuffle is a mix of the two. I’ll explain.

    First, let me tell you what happened in front of me during Mass a week ago: A member of a well known family in my Parish has a micro-cephalic in his 50’s; our friend. Directly in front of this family sat another family whose mother held a small child, of about two years of age, in her arms such that the child ‘s view was the pew behind them.

    I, like the others who sat around these two families, noticed a sudden agitation in our friend, whose aged mother patiently tried to becalm him. I noticed the unbroken gaze of the small child upon our friend, and supposed this to be the source of our friend’s vexation. When this became apparent to others within vision of this incident, all concerned exchanged looks, ranging from embarrassment to total outrage.

    Thought to myself, “this child, not understanding the situation, and in complete innocence, is bringing to everyone’s attention, an anomalous member of the human race; bringing to the surface, our own baggage on the matter. This anomaly.

    Second, recall climate change. To me, the hoax is not about its existence, but rather, its meaning.

    Trump is no innocent child, duh. But he has fixed his clumsy gaze, however fleeting, upon another anomaly; the immigrant determined not to assimilate, not to escape slavery, not to flee evil. But, rather, to force assimilation, bring slavery, and import evil. This brings to the surface, our baggage on immigration.

    Again, the truth has has been enslaved by a hoax; the hoax being the meaning of the “sh1th0le” kerfuffle. Dubious data will be paraded before us. Lies will be told. Passions kindled and inflamed. All through the distorted lens of our fourth estate.

    Drop the baggage. Then do what you think is right. But have a concern for what is just.

    felipe (023cc9)

  42. Patterico,

    I hope Trump was saying that he would only agree to let the DACA Dreamers stay if the Democrats agree to reform chain migration laws in which some bad people come to America with minimal vetting and often from the same impoverished/corrupt places. I hope that was the context — chain migration associated with questionable/criminal immigrants — and not simply targeting countries and regions because he doesn’t like them.

    But he seems unable to clearly form/express specific ideas, so who knows what he said let alone meant?

    DRJ (15874d)

  43. Flippy should stick to scriptural errors.

    He’s not fully socialized as yet.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  44. which some bad people come to America with minimal vetting

    Have you been blessed with the ability to read hearts and minds?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  45. @ Tom Swift,

    Trump said nothing at all about immigrants. He said (if he DID say, maybe he didn’t … in which case, he should have) COUNTRIES. But you hear “immigrants”

    Consider this regarding Haitians and explain how this is *not* about immigrants, and how is this *not* a slur toward a specific group of would-be immigrants :

    “Why do we need more Haitians, take them out,” he said, according to sources.

    Dana (023079)

  46. Let’s all pretend that the remark was not made in the context of deciding who should be allowed to immigrate!

    The idea was never that people from poophole countries shouldn’t come at all. The question is why do we tilt the scales in favor of people from poophole countries and away from countries that have high rates of literacy and low rates of cholera.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  47. narciso, I think unskilled and uneducated to start. Then throw in some deadly communicable diseases, a score of STD’s, criminals especially murderers-rapists-pedophiles, people with drug addictions, alcoholics, cripples and the handicapped, and finally communists/moslems and other anti American/Anti Christian groups guaranteed not to believe in or obey or laws. Diversity is the strength of the democrat party which is why they spent the last four score years teaching not only that America is not exceptional but it is down right racist and oppressive.

    You see, if you tell somebody Haiti is a sh!tholes they call you a racist. But allow me to propose a question: if all the people were removed from Haiti and replaced with Japanese do you think Haiti would still be a sh!tholes in five years? Now remember, we’re replacing people of color with other people of color.

    Haiti is a sh!thole because of the Haitians made it that way not because they are people of color.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  48. Trump helped make it shi!holey by corrupting it further with Papadoc money laundering. Do your freaking honework hoagie!

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  49. 47… I’m somewhat troubled by saying this but Feets has a good point buried in that poop.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  50. Felipe,

    Are you saying that Trump is the anomaly or the child without understanding?

    Dana (023079)

  51. I grow tired if educating you barbarians.

    There is little compensation..

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  52. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 1/14/2018 @ 12:51 pm

    I know, right? Seems Patterico has taught HF something.

    felipe (023cc9)

  53. 43… well said, felipe!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  54. countries that have high rates of literacy and low rates of cholera.

    Maybe we should export

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  55. Dana (023079) — 1/14/2018 @ 12:52 pm

    The micro-cephalic is the anomaly.

    felipe (023cc9)

  56. 52… You must bide your time and wait for the hot corner of Hell that awaits you.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  57. I was a dressing the wider point, the democrats aren’t interested in a deal, they have succeeded spectacularly in securing power and keeping it under the current system in the large states

    narciso (21eb6d)

  58. Colonel, you made me curious as to the contents of #52.

    Just wages, Ben. Just wages. You prolly don’t understand what I mean, so let me translate: It is a result of justice that you receive so little compensation for you efforts.

    felipe (023cc9)

  59. @ Scott,

    It was a one off colloquial comment. It was never meant for public consumption. Durbin realized he was not going to get the immigration deal that would benefit Democrat interest groups, so he decided to tattle to the media that Trump said a bad word.

    And:

    At any rate, we knew Trump was crude, brash, insensitive and callous when he was elected. He is who he is.

    So although we know – and have seen it proven over and over again – that Trump is crude, brash, insensitive and callous, we’re supposed to dismiss this particular lack of discretion as a one-off??

    That it wasn’t meant for public consumption, as you say, confirms again what we also know about the president: he is without discretion, discernment or common-sense, considering in whose presence he made the comment. Would that lack of prudence then possibly be a problem when meeting with less than friendly leaders from unfriendly nations?

    Dana (023079)

  60. OT, Pitt has alligator blood! What a game!

    felipe (023cc9)

  61. No they lie to shut down the conversation like durbin has done again and again, that was the strategy ‘re gitmo and specially the 20th hijacker who would have turned capitol hill into a channel

    narciso (21eb6d)

  62. The issue is not that the President used the s-word in private.

    Except this wasn’t quite an ‘expletive deleted’ moment ‘in private’– he wasn’t in the residence ‘off-duty’ after ‘close of business.’ This occurred in the Oval during a scheduled meeting w/other gov’t officials during conduct of government business. And the sauerkraut juice chaser with this ‘sh!t sandwich’ was why his not ‘more from Norway’ crack– which is very white– and not just from snowfall; ‘Norwegians are an ethnic North Germanic people.’

    The point is that the fact that a country is a bad place to live does not mean its people are bad people. The fact that a country is a sh*thole does not mean that immigrants from that country will be sh*tty citizens.

    Bingo. Still, to slur the homeland is to slur the people.

    And the ‘expletive’ characterization is not limited to countries. Consider sections of South Central Los Angeles, Queens, the Bronx and Brooklyn; much of Staten Island and Newark, Detroit, the Hill District in Pittsburgh, Haiku’s outhouse [the Navy would call his a sh!thead] my own garage and, of course, Texas.

    _______

    Something smells; Cotton and Perdue got splashed when our Captain stepped in it and no matter how fast they spin, they won’t shake the stink.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. I know that, Felipe. I was asking who Trump was, the Anatoly or the child with little understanding. I admittedly asked with a smidge of sarcasm…

    Dana (023079)

  64. @62. Go Steelers!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  65. Scott, Dana: “It was a one off colloquial comment.”

    Let me fix that: “It was a one of many colloquial comment.”

    felipe (023cc9)

  66. narcissist Mia Love spent all day yesterday working the pole and screeching like a spurtled scrunt

    today?

    “I hope that we are actually going to work on fixing DACA,” said Representative Mia Love on CNN’s “State of the Union” program on Sun. “We cannot let this derail us.”

    sweetie honey baby you’re in no danger of being taken seriously that’s for sure

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  67. Ben D. on the s-hole kerfuffle.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  68. Dana (023079) — 1/14/2018 @ 1:10 pm

    Like DRJ, I have trouble recognizing internet sarcasm. You point is well made.

    felipe (023cc9)

  69. I think my understanding transcends your own, Flippy.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  70. That it wasn’t meant for public consumption, as you say, confirms again what we also know about the president: he is without discretion, discernment or common-sense, considering in whose presence he made the comment.

    there’s no proof he ever even made this comment

    nevertrump once again follows perverted Mitt Romney’s famous “no proof no problem” dictum – but only against Republicans never against Democrats

    then when all the Rs are out of office they’ll go back to posting abortion porn and whining about the fetuses

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  71. From a terrible start to a great game, the Steelers are impressive!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  72. Problem is Trump is right. Haiti is a shithole. Even communist Cuba never tried to subvert it. Knew better. And it should be a tropical paradise.

    Thud Muffle (5a4596)

  73. http://thefederalist.com/2018/01/12/haiti-werent-shithole-citizens-wouldnt-need-refugee-status-u-s/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 1/14/2018 @ 1:13 pm

    For once, I agree with one of the Colonel’s links.

    In this case, I’d gladly argue that America has the potential to take people from shithole countries and turn them into great Americans. In fact, America has been doing this for a very long time. That is one of the wonderful things about our nation – that it takes the rejected refuse of the world and turns them into citizens, with the same rights as those born here, and the same potential to be men and women who do great things. That is part of what makes us exceptional. I wish our president understood that.

    Amen.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  74. It’s “Let Rear Admiral Mince Sunday”!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  75. I don’t know, yinzers…looks like halal is getting snuck into Foxboro next sunday.

    urbanleftbehind (1d0126)

  76. That is one of the wonderful things about our nation – that it takes the rejected

    Thank God for the Irish..

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  77. In this case, I’d gladly argue that America has the potential to take people from [poophole] countries and turn them into great Americans.

    nobody’s saying America doesn’t have this potential

    they’re asking what is the opportunity cost

    it’s a very mature and grown up position President Trump is staking out

    thank you Mr. Trump for starting this conversation

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  78. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 1/14/2018 @ 1:13 pm

    Thanks for the link, Colonel.

    felipe (023cc9)

  79. 45 – 42 What a game. Glad I had no wager on this.

    felipe (023cc9)

  80. It’s clear; our Captain prefers immigrants from Norway over Haiti. At best he’s a bigot; at worst, a racist.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  81. 75, that’s cause Zoe Pound gangsters, with help from old school Cuban Americans (They get along qawell in So Fla) would make quick work of the commandantes forces.

    urbanleftbehind (1d0126)

  82. Sometimes they remember they are at the game, but a runaway first half is anticlimactic

    narciso (21eb6d)

  83. Thwe problem is taht people don’t know exactly what Donald trump said:

    I am guessing:

    1) He used the word.

    2) He may not have used any that as an adjective that applied to any specific countries.

    3) Some of what he really said may be worse than what’s reported.

    4) The problem is the policy.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  84. Trump has invaded UKIP

    “The girlfriend of the leader of the radical pro-Brexit British political party UKIP made a series of racist remarks about Meghan Markle, sending texts to a friend in which she said Prince Harry’s “black American” fiancée will “taint” the Royal Family with “her seed” and pave the way for a “black king.” Harry and Meghan are due to marry on May 19.”

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/british-political-leaders-girlfriend-sent-vile-racist-abuse-of-meghan-markle

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  85. It’s reported that Lindsey Graham and Dick Durbin were ambushed. They expected to present an immigration proposal to Trump – basically that some of the people now here on Temporary protected Status be given visas, which would be deducted from either the visa lottery or regular immigration.

    Trump, at the instigation of Stephen Miller, former aide to Semnator Jeff Sessions, confronted them with immigration hardliners. He said he wanted to hear a debate.

    I remember how Sessions claimed that family reunification, even when starting with people admitted on “merit” would bring millions of people to the United States. He was dishonest.

    It should have been obvious:

    1) He was double-counting. (persons could be elighinle through more than one relative)

    2) The close relatives of educated people are probably also disproportionately educated as well

    3) Under current law there is an annual quota on close relatives.

    It’s still not explained why the most important thing is the total number.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  86. looks like bastard prince harry and leggy meggy are getting off to a bad start

    🙁

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  87. Felipe,

    I don’t like being sarcastic with courteous fellow commenters, so I apologize. However, it was too good of a set up to not make the point.

    Dana (023079)

  88. 81.

    In this case, I’d gladly argue that America has the potential to take people from [poophole] countries and turn them into great Americans.

    That’s basically what Emma Lazarus’ poem says.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  89. Dana (023079) — 1/14/2018 @ 1:39 pm

    Apology accepted. I don’t blame you one bit.

    felipe (023cc9)

  90. What Trump says follows inexorably from saying he supports an immigration policy based on “merit” or skills and not on family. Some people, in this view, are better than others, and some countries are better than others.

    The White House in fact issued a.statement afterwards, saying in part: “Like other nations that have merit-based immigration, President Trump is fighting for permanent solutions that make our country stronger by welcoming those who can contribute to our society, grow our economy and assimilate into our great nation.”

    People are horrified about what he said but they are not coming to grips with what’s wrong with it.

    It’s too harsh, it’s wrong morally and it is wrong economically, but people mostly focus on one of these things. They get distracted by one of these faults and don’t go into the others. Or they don’t know how to argue against it any more than for many years people knew how to argue against socialism.

    It’s too harsh: In the first place, you don’t label whole countries bad.

    Its wrong morally and ethically: this is the philosophy of Sodom, and not the philosophy of Abraham. The Torah always makes the “ger” a prime recipient of financial help. And this doesn’t mean full converts, although of course it does not mean enemies.

    The economic reasoning is wrong and invalid. It is based on the “”lump of labor” fallacy or similar ideas. The economy in fact is like a circle – therefore nobody takes away any jobs, which are NOT in limited supply. In fact it even works the other way. Wages in a city – where there are many people – , go up about 15% for every doubling of population.

    In the third place all of this reasoning is economically invalid.. . There is no historical or empirical evidence to support any of the notions animating this. Every policy that could ruin a country has been tried somewhere – different immigration policies – de jure or de facto – have been tried and they’ve never ruined a country’s economy.

    If you believe this kind of propaganda then you also must believe that the poor man is poor because the rich man is rich – only, unlike most people who believe that , you want to keep it that way. (Because all you’re doing is keeping people poor and keeping them from working for better wages than they could otherwise get.)

    If you believe that, then you should oppose work requirements for welfare, as that would only replace good workers with bad and inexperienced ones, since there are only so many jobs available. You should support mandatory retirement as well, and oppose automation as well as imports.

    If you believe that you believe in central planning – with a vengeance.

    Now the truth is a country can survive just about as well with or without immigrants,
    but immigrants generally bring more prosperity., whether they be skilled or unskilled.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  91. The rhetorical bomb there overstates the case to draw a parallel to a commonly used phrase, but the point is still clear: immigrants from every country on Earth add value to America, regardless of the country they come from. India is not a particularly clean or prosperous country. But India sends us STEM geniuses all the time. I could go on and on.

    So you advocate for open borders. I didn’t know that from the last ten years reading your blog. Been playing those cards pretty close to the chest.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  92. Do you prefer electronic surveillance over wall? Drinking fountains deployed at regular intervals over local law cooperation with ICE?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  93. Uber drivers stationed at the border? Yeah or nay?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  94. “Like other nations that have merit-based immigration, President Trump is fighting for permanent solutions that make our country stronger by welcoming those who can contribute to our society, grow our economy and assimilate into our great nation.”

    this my friends is what an awesome president looks like

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  95. Is Rajendra Pachauri a valuable STEM campaigner, or a gross pervert embezzeling from the world’s pocket, when he doesn’t have his hand down the secretary’s skirt?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  96. Burton is really make Nigel garage seem a stable chap,

    narciso (d1f714)

  97. Sorry Pachauri is the only Indian STEM “genius” I know {although the genius part is conditional to his usefulness selling Dem party shiboleths. Probably revoked now that he has the #metoo stigma.}

    papertiger (c8116c)

  98. There are many, now amampour is generally a Pill but ahmari is a star. Preset is insufferable but dnesh is aces tunku is pretty good as well.

    narciso (d1f714)

  99. Probably more fair to call Indian work visa imports a smart bargain for the Silicon Valley Dot coms.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  100. Vivek Ranadive’s a bright guy

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  101. If you have to do a major rewrite to a core policy position in order to preserve your TDS, that’s called a clue.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  102. Or maybe it’s called a symptom? Is TDS a clinical pathology?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  103. Can you take two asprin and get over it?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  104. Patterico (115b1f) — 1/14/2018 @ 11:56 am

    I note with pleased amusement that the point I make in the tweet I used in that comment makes use of the very same idea DRJ articulated at The Jury in comments to the parallel post to this one — yet I had not seen her comment until long after I posted the tweet.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  105. So you advocate for open borders. I didn’t know that from the last ten years reading your blog. Been playing those cards pretty close to the chest.

    “So you’re saying [insert made up position I never said here]” comments are my favorite kind of comments.

    I see you’re really running with it too, papertiger.

    You do you.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  106. Today, a feminist asked me how I view “lesbian relationships”.

    Apparently, “in HD” was not the right answer.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  107. @110. =Haiku= Gesundheit!

    “Blu-ray.” Always.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  108. Farage always was stable…comes off as a dignified Robin Leach.

    urbanleftbehind (1d0126)

  109. UPDATE x2: Rich Lowry says his sources tell him the word Trump said was “sh*thouse” and not “sh*thole.” Now run back to Perdue, Cotton, and Nielsen, and ask them if he said that. If they totally dodge the question, you’ll know why they got so cute about denying remembering that exact precise phrase. If Lowry is right, their comments are not honesty, but Clintonian nonsense. Non-partisans have been able to tell they were hiding something.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  110. You advocate for the odd Haitian genius to be allowed in. The rest excluded?

    papertiger (c8116c)

  111. @113. There’s an awful lot of verbal diarrhea piling up over this.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  112. Lorry who was taken in by gorlin eisenstadt, nearly 10 years ago.

    narciso (d1f714)

  113. Sh^thouse rat sounds better than sh^thole country..

    Give them that before they implode.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  114. I prefer “sh*thole”. More memorable and to the point.

    Might be why the WH didn’t bother with denouncing the Wapo’s formulation.

    Layers and layers of fact checkers, mining for gold, are bound to find a nugget once in a while.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  115. @113. postscript– of course to asked them about the ‘why not more from Norway’ crack would be telling.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  116. Norwegian prime minister had a meeting with His Excellency, the Honorable Mr. Donald Trump, prior to being plagued with the disreputable Mr. Durbin.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/norwegian-prime-minister-says-europe-is-on-alert-about-russian-interference/2018/01/10/1784ebc0-f61e-11e7-beb6-c8d48830c54d_story.html

    That’s why Norway was fresh in his mind.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  117. Would that these “non-partisans” were equally bent out of shape around issues more important than a vulgarity, e.g., Big Tech… lapdog media… rogue DOJ, FBI actions/activities… the Administrative State…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  118. layers and layers of fact checkers, mining for gold, are bound to find a nugget once in a while.

    The alternative is mining FOX fool’s gold and calling it BITCOIN.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  119. always getting sidetracked. Sad.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  120. “My understanding from the meeting is he used a different but very closely related vulgarity,” [Conservative editor of National Review Rich] Lowry noted. “He said S-house, and not S-hole.”

    Don’t believe Lowry’s obfuscation. ‘My understanding’ is he advocates a conservative agenda which rhymes at times with Trump’s.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  121. The alternative is mining FOX fool’s gold and calling it BITCOIN.

    If I knew what he was talking about I might be insulted.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  122. China, what loves doing feckless Rex Tillerson’s Paris Agreement all up in it, is *literally* codifying Big Coal

    China said on Friday it plans to create several “super-large” coal mining companies by the end of 2020 as the world’s biggest producer of the fuel ramps up years of efforts to streamline the fragmented sector and slash outdated capacity.

    by creating giant entrenched coal behemoths while demanding American mines close immediately, the Chinesers are signaling their concern for the global warming!

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  123. PT: aspire to haikus intellect. It’s a short trip.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  124. If Lowry is right, their comments are not honesty, but Clintonian nonsense.

    however you slice it, slick dick durbin’s a dirty liar and the CNN bottom boys ran off half-cocked again

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  125. “I take a little offense to allegations that the president is racist,” Nielsen said during an interview on “Fox News Sunday.”

    https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5a5b68e5e4b04f3c55a36b45

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  126. Bitcoin, is the latest pet.com, sans pets.

    narciso (d1f714)

  127. Would that these “non-partisans” were equally bent out of shape around issues more important than a vulgarity, e.g., Big Tech… lapdog media… rogue DOJ, FBI actions/activities… the Administrative State…

    As I noted in the post, the vulgarity is not the issue. But strawmen are easier to refute, aren’t they? And nobody notices what you did, so you look, like, really smart in the process.

    Patterico (fcc13e)

  128. It seems like an unhappy life, hanging around a blog that expresses opinions you don’t like, but being unable to refute them honestly, so you have to twist what is said to make your point sound good, and then you get caught doing it, but you have to respond with something to show you don’t care…is this fun for you, Colonel?

    Patterico (fcc13e)

  129. Whether we are going to use nationalities and perhaps skin color as a proxy for desirability in immigration (the actual issue) is indeed significant, by the way.

    Patterico (fcc13e)

  130. the vulgarity is not the issue

    he president trump been quotes as saying we need to look at the persistent bias towards unskilled immigrants and maybe look at striking a new balance, as he has said many many times before, we wouldn’t be having this thread today

    vulgarity is indeed the issue

    it give posers like the execrably needy weaksuck Mia Love something to whine about on twitter and use to do identity politics all up in it

    without the vulgarity she wouldn’t have been invited on the cable tv to spew her vapid pablum

    and without the vulgarity them pitiful DACA losers would be well on their way to amnesty

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  131. UGH that first sentence is a hot mess!

    it should say

    *had* president trump been *quoted* as saying we need to look at the persistent bias

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  132. It’s OK, all your writing is a hot mess. No need to obsess over small details.

    Patterico (fcc13e)

  133. Trump is unfit for Office.

    There ’tis.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  134. Andrew Sullivan was trying to get to the bottom of Sarah Palin’s uterus the last time I read a Huffpo article.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  135. i do many good writing it’s just sometimes i don’t multi-task as well as i think and something distracts me and i forget to prove before hitting the submit

    tonight i got M texting me cause of we’re planning a trip to the Disney Whirl!

    planning is so key to making the most of the magic

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  136. Andrew Sullivan was trying to get to the bottom of Sarah Palin’s uterus the last time I read a Huffpo article.

    I’ve forwarded my prognosis via email.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  137. Are they still a thing:
    dailycaller.com/2018/01/14/dixie-chicks-lead-singer-slams-trump-as-mentally-ill-and-elderly

    narciso (d1f714)

  138. 137.Trump is unfit for Office.


    So was Hussein but they elected him twice. Go figure.

    Rev.Hoagie (6bbda7)

  139. 131, 132… Just my observations and they were directed beyond you, Patterico. The matters I mentioned have gotten short shrift. They don’t seem to matter to a lot of the people who would normally care. But this one sure as sh!t does.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  140. Trump said the wrong thing to the wrong people. And they’ve taken it from there. As I stated earlier… on to the next outrage.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  141. You can tell the wrong people at the wrong time most of the time, but you can’t tell the wrong people at the wrong time all the time.

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  142. 118.I prefer “sh*thole”. More memorable and to the point.

    Flows more naturally in the cadence of language than “sh*thouse.” Yet apparently not ‘memorable’ enough to two senators from the South.

    _________

    What we can do is credit our Captain with elevating the term “sh!thole” from the shadowed sewer of gutter parlance into the disinfecting sunshine of national discourse, brightly bantered in television studios across the land.

    F-ckin’-A, Captain sir, what’s next on the list!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  143. I prefer the term Yellow sh’tstorm from the Bowels of Hell.

    Were we talking about Trump?

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  144. I don’t seek to refute your opinions, Patterico, I’d like to understand them better… how you’ve arrived at them, why you believe certain issues to be more important, more relevant than others I think are far more consequential.

    Everyone has an opinion. I disagree with you more often than not these days, but that’s okay… at least by me. I still find your writing and many of the commenters here to be insightful. If that doesn’t sit well with you, just say the word.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  145. 76

    For once, I agree with one of the Colonel’s links.

    In this case, I’d gladly argue that America has the potential to take people from shithole countries and turn them into great Americans. In fact, America has been doing this for a very long time. That is one of the wonderful things about our nation – that it takes the rejected refuse of the world and turns them into citizens, with the same rights as those born here, and the same potential to be men and women who do great things. That is part of what makes us exceptional. I wish our president understood that.

    Amen.

    If America actually has this amazing ability to transform people perhaps we should prioritize the people who are already here in places like Detroit.

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  146. It’s interesting that winning the told-you-so argument about potty words is more important than making a deal. If Durbin wanted a deal this isn’t the way to get it. If Durbin wants an issue and division – mission accomplished.

    crazy (d99a88)

  147. I don’t seek to refute your opinions, Patterico, I’d like to understand them better… how you’ve arrived at them, why you believe certain issues to be more important, more relevant than others I think are far more consequential.

    Everyone has an opinion. I disagree with you more often than not these days, but that’s okay… at least by me. I still find your writing and many of the commenters here to be insightful. If that doesn’t sit well with you, just say the word.

    That’s a tone I feel like I haven’t seen from you in a long time, but never mind that. I like this comment and if this is your attitude we’ll get along fine going forward.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  148. Apparently Rand Paul (R, KY) can’t visualize the difference between a ‘hellhole’ and a ‘sh!thole.’

    He really ought to see an ophthalmologist.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  149. Seems to be the night soil brigade has been extra busy, well all our other problems have been solved.

    narciso (d1f714)

  150. Given the flavor and taste of public discourse these days, it’s reasonable to characterize our Captain’s mouth as a ‘sh!thole’ too.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  151. Jeff the Flake absolves himself from any responsibility whatsoever for the yellow sh’tstorm he enabled..
    https://www.axios.com/flake-compares-trumps-1515950342-3f0d27f5-ae18-4330-9b6a-8c0bef10e53c.html

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  152. Tuck that tail- bone tight and keep a tight grip on your self-respect as>wipe g rifter all you retiring Republican cowards!

    Admiral Ben Bunsen Burner (e96021)

  153. Saints vs Viking going to the wire. 1:29 saints ball

    felipe (023cc9)

  154. I pretty much agree with you Mr Patterico with a slight modifier:

    the point is still clear: immigrants from every country on Earth [can] add value to America, regardless of the country they come from.

    I don’t think you are saying it’s an automatic thing but some folks seem to think so.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  155. New Orleans just kicked Norway in the … It’s hurting down in Oslo.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  156. It’s a miracle TD for the Vikings!

    felipe (023cc9)

  157. famous attorney Mr. John Hinderaker nails it:

    This story is a good illustration of the bizarre times in which we live. Trump made a good point in a private meeting with a small number of legislators. He may have used profanity while doing so, but he wasn’t making a speech.

    His political enemy, Dick Durbin, then ran to the press to damage Trump by quoting – probably misquoting – his private comments. The press jumped on the story eagerly, assuming Durbin’s account was correct and happily damaging America’s interests, as Democrats and Democratic reporters smugly told us was happening.

    Lost in the shuffle was the fact that Trump is right about immigration–chain migration and the lottery are crazy and need to go, in favor of a merit-based system–and a large majority of Americans agree with him.

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  158. Norway wins! {cue the music}

    papertiger (c8116c)

  159. Saint back threw it… WTF

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  160. Note to the Saints DB’s: sometimes pass interference or a personal foul is a righteous thing.

    urbanleftbehind (1d0126)

  161. NFL trash gonna be trashy Mr. Colonel

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  162. Threw the game… conspiracy theory… No reason to not tackles that receiver.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  163. Tackles teh sweaty menz…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  164. Even Keenum couldn’t believe it. Holy smokes!

    Lenny (5ea732)

  165. That looked like on purpose to me

    papertiger (c8116c)

  166. Me too. That made no sense, nobody got time fo dat!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  167. Shades of Neil O’Donnell and that multigrand check he got after his bad 1995(1996) Super Bowl against the Cowboys.

    urbanleftbehind (1d0126)

  168. I pretty much agree with you Mr Patterico with a slight modifier:

    the point is still clear: immigrants from every country on Earth [can] add value to America, regardless of the country they come from.

    I don’t think you are saying it’s an automatic thing but some folks seem to think so.

    It’s descriptive, as in: it happens and it is happening right now.

    The sun rises every morning.

    People go to work each day.

    Immigrants from every country on Earth add value to America.

    It doesn’t have to be this way, of course. Not everyone goes to work — and of those who do, most don’t do so every day. Not every immigrant adds value.

    But it happens that many do. And there are immigrants who add value to this country from every country on the planet.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  169. One of our most valuable immigrants, named Ynwie J Malmsteen, just happens to be a white guy from Sweden. If you can find people from other lands to be the second wave of Neoclassical Music I welcome your introduction.

    Mozart Symphony 25 rendered into Overture 1622 Ynwie J Malmsteen

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  170. the rookie defensive back didn’t want to interfere as the queens would have been in field goal range. where were the rest of the aints?

    mg (8cbc69)

  171. Maybe I need to get out more. I’m sort of the opposite of an immigrant, I’d rather stay home.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  172. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 1/14/2018 @ 5:09 pm

    Absolutely! I watched the replay enough to see that the DB clearly tackled air on purpose, or, or, maybe he thought Diggs inertia would take him into that space. DB didn’t count on Diggs change of velocity.

    felipe (023cc9)

  173. I guess my biggest problem with the last administration was plunking 500 people from a rape culture in the middle of BF Idaho. Seems like it was not so random.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  174. OK, I see that the ball had not yet arrived. So hitting Diggs would have resulted in a penalty.

    ULB called it.

    Note to the Saints DB’s: sometimes pass interference or a personal foul is a righteous thing.
    urbanleftbehind (1d0126) — 1/14/2018 @ 5:09 pm

    felipe (023cc9)

  175. Yeah but I’d rather take the chance that the Viking historic bad luck afflicts them for the game winning luck attempt (Mortem Andersen, 1998; Blair Walsh 2014).

    urbanleftbehind (1d0126)

  176. queens over eagles
    patriots over jags

    mg (8cbc69)

  177. That’s possible but you can’t count on that, you bave to anticipate that the ball was going there.

    narciso (d1f714)

  178. I meant Gary Anderson. That’s the one job that has become less peopled by immigrants since the 1980sdue to it being a specialty in itself instead of a lark for foreign students reared in soccer.

    urbanleftbehind (1d0126)

  179. 178… All he had to do was hold back a little, let the guy make the catch and then tackle him. Not enough time on the clock. He misjudged it all the way around.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  180. I guess my biggest problem with the last administration was plunking 500 people from a rape culture in the middle of BF Idaho. Seems like it was not so random.

    I think the refugee crisis from Syria presents a unique situation. It’s obviously worked out poorly for Germany and the same could happen here. Taking in tens of thousands of people who don’t necessarily have anything to offer us except the risk that they are refugees, and have a 1/3 chance of approving or supporting ISIS — that’s a bad bet.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  181. The Manhattanites Credo: “Do we really want any more of ‘them’ coming in from sh!thole boroughs like Queens?”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  182. Maybe these Syrians should man up and fight for their own piece of a sand dune instead of raping their way through Europe before coming state side.

    mg (8cbc69)

  183. Keep Syria populated with Syrians. Keep Libyans in Libya. We do not want or need them here.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  184. 174

    Immigrants from every country on Earth add value to America.

    So what? It is probably also true that there are immigrants from every country on Earth that are subtracting value from America. However immigrants from some countries are better bets than immigrants from other countries.

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  185. Make sure their “unique situation” remains THEIR unique situation.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  186. I guess Trump trusts Democrats like Durbin to understand what he’s saying and not try to hurt him. Silly Trump. He isn’t one of them anymore.

    And Texas high school quarterbacks had a good night. Abilene Wylie doesn’t play Austin Westlake and probably couldn’t beat them, but they did tonight.

    DRJ (15874d)

  187. You know I forgot at Christmastime a guy named Mohammed wished me Merry Christmas and Hindi Subway was closed. As a matter of fact, Hindi Subway is almost always closed on Christian Holidays so maybe there is hope for America.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  188. 186

    … that’s a bad bet.

    Seems like we have been making a lot of bad bets lately.

    James B. Shearer (951d11)

  189. If the db had hit the receiver from underneath and behind while he was in the air like that it would have been a flagrant foul, fifteen yards tacked on the spot of the foul, well within the kickers range.

    I’m sure the coach took the dbs aside and cautioned against the interference call/he wax just following the coaches orders.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  190. Well have the example of mariel, that was about 120,000 people, mostly in a community that had a common support structure of culture and language, about a 1/1000th of what merkel permitted, but Fidel a little like assay has seeded thiscwave with a bunch of not very nice people. Its a shame really because there were many very good people i was aware of however coming with the rise of the cartels and the mcduffie verdict, it created a perfect storm. That lasted about 2 years

    narciso (d1f714)

  191. Overall, I was thinking in the very abstract, Mr. Patterico. We are stuck with the last administration’s immigrants whether we like it or not.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  192. Is taking the best and brightest from other countries worse than Colonialism?

    Obama’s daddy went back to Kenya with a degree and an Western education (?) but did he really learn anything? He ended up a double amputee dying in a drunk driving accident. Sounds like the ideal immigrant for his son’s era.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  193. And sayed qutb who could have advanced high up in egyptian education circles returned for greeley Colorado to wage war against nasser and to die in the Citadel, just a few blacks from where Obama would give his Cairo speech 40 some years later. The late Mrs Raul Castro the daughter of a bacardi exec and an mit grad, would be the one the company would use to vouch for Fidel.

    narciso (d1f714)

  194. i read today where Kenya’s cutting the amount of money it gives to local (kenyan) governments out of its new oil revenue to 20% of the revenue down from 30%

    to be clear these are just the local governments in the crude-producing areas, and it gets divided between the county and the communities (15%/5%)

    i though oh wow that’s a big reduction

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  195. obama’s dad was a drunk-ass loser his mama sure new how to pick em

    and pick em

    and pick em

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  196. So maybe here’s the problem:

    Sh!thole countries send their best and brightest to American Universities where sh!thole leftist professors teach them sh!thole economics and viola-it’s a race to the bottom!

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  197. After that rant I think I’m qualified for grandpa status.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  198. i love president trump and how he expresses himself so forthrightly about the immigrations

    it’s a refreshing and bold approach that only gets better over time

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  199. Indelicately put the first generation of students after independence didn’t have hard skills like engineering degrees , Nehru was lse taught by haroldclaski , the fellow who thought Dr should have nationalized industry. You can start to note the problem the next generation was mostly engineering and hardvsciences you can think of examples that ran awry.

    narciso (d1f714)

  200. BREAKING…..

    Indisputable proof of Russian collusion found:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DThHoSyXkAAzkD3?format=jpg

    harkin (8256c3)

  201. @206 A literal LOL here. Hilarious.

    ‘The clever cat eats cheese and breathes down rat holes with baited breath.’ – WC Fields

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  202. Is that some kind of rick roll, we don’t know about?

    narciso (d1f714)

  203. Can anybody remember, oh, I dunno, maybe a year back, when the British would have considered it a horrible snub for the new President of the United States to have made three world tours and not have yet visited London?

    nk (dbc370)

  204. london’s a no go zone now even leggy meggy won’t go out without security

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  205. You mean because of the Al queda apologist who became mayor over there, who thinks terrorist acts are just signs of mideen society.

    narciso (d1f714)

  206. nk (dbc370) — 1/14/2018 @ 7:28 pm

    nk – 1
    everybody else – 0

    felipe (023cc9)

  207. London would be scary for that reason alone I don’t blame him for snubbing, but it would not behoove President Trump to be in the same chickenspit category as Gov. Target (Mark Dayton, who abandoned his DC Senate office after bomb threats).

    urbanleftbehind (1d0126)

  208. And if the iron lady were brought back to life aftervthe initial surprise she would look upon theresa may and what were my nearly 20 years in leadership about.

    narciso (d1f714)

  209. Russia is just not the threat it was in 1982,

    narciso (d1f714)

  210. Patterico: “The American citizens I have met who are immigrants from Iran or Cuba are some of the most solid Americans I know. They are passionate about the ideals of this country in a way that few native-born citizens are.”

    You are selectively and conveniently choosing political refugees, which are wholly different from economic refugees.

    Both are fleeing a flawed system, but the difference is that the former agree that the system they’re fleeing is flawed. If the latter think likewise, I just haven’t observed it.

    Canoga Park, to take just one example of many, has changed significantly in the past fifty years. I know, as I was born and raised there. It’s been changed almost wholly by economic refugees. Changed for the better? You tell me.

    random viking (1ce48c)

  211. It is not Mr. President who is snubbing the British, urbanleftbehind. It is the British who are snubbing Mr. President. And what does that say about him given our special relationship with the UK?

    nk (dbc370)

  212. It says they are fools that they elected sadik khan proved the point, that they will probably put Jeremy corbyn in power confirms the point.

    narciso (d1f714)

  213. But Maggie left the barricade watching to Enoch Powell and his crowd, she was much more animated against the domestic working class left (miners, footie fans, transit users). She uttered the line “A 30 year old man on a bus is a failure”.

    urbanleftbehind (1d0126)

  214. The Londoners are screwed unless they convince Bannon forerunner Boris Johnson to be the Rudy G.

    urbanleftbehind (1d0126)

  215. That’s not the point, the mind of the British particular the younger generation has been sapped as if by the triffids.

    narciso (d1f714)

  216. You downy need to complete the sentence, the folkscthatvthough paying the EU 40 million pounds in order to exec, well its as daft as the saints tonight.

    narciso (d1f714)

  217. 209
    Or remember, say, two years ago when the Special Relationship was endangered by a Churchill-bust hating son of a Kenyan?

    Kishnevi (e85727)

  218. I think most of the British may think many areas of the USA are pretty much sh!tholes, so who’s kidding who?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  219. Yes that illustrates how daft they really are:

    https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/285966/

    The odd thing is there want that big a difference between oublications

    narciso (d1f714)

  220. They have aired pulp fiction among other recent fare (expletives included) also the mechanic , their 24, mi 5 painted the us and Israel almost as great an enemy as Al queda.

    narciso (d1f714)

  221. A thirty year old man driving a bus through a crowd is a Muslim.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  222. And it isn’t Sh*t___ that is the issue. It is whether he referred to people from enerally non-white places as being sh*tty people.

    If THAT is a lie, then heads should roll, starting with Durbin and his running dog lackeys in the press.

    If THAT is true, then Trump’s should.

    Kevin M (752a26)

  223. *generally

    Kevin M (752a26)

  224. But by now the issue is so muddled that people believe what they want to believe.

    Kevin M (752a26)


  225. I think most of the British may think many areas of the USA are pretty much sh!tholes, so who’s kidding who?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 1/14/2018 @ 8:19 pm

    My dad said they hosted some English at the family ranch. This old girl’s horse ran away with her and she said,” I fear I cannot stop the beast!” Her old man commented,” Huh, huh, huh! Come a bit of a cropper, have you?”

    I think I may have mentioned it but probably the first time QE2 used currency was in Sheridan, WY.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  226. Whis going to make them roll, chuck schumer, we saw last year you can accuse someone of accessory to murder going on 8 years ago,,have it be
    proven false, then repeated and no legal penalty attached.

    You want me to give you ten other examples.

    narciso (d1f714)

  227. #206

    That’s priceless, harkin. Now, about the coffee stains on my shirt….

    Kevin M (752a26)

  228. Just like certain people believed discredited claims that scalise had been at a meeting with David duke, now did that enter the mind of the Alexandria shooter who was previously in contact with durwood and duckworth, who knows but it would be an interesting question.

    Just likevwgat wee the real motive the Las Vegas shooter and how many people worked with him.

    narciso (d1f714)

  229. You want me to give you ten other examples.
    narciso (d1f714) — 1/14/2018 @ 9:04 pm

    “We cannot do with more than two, to give a hand to each.”

    felipe (023cc9)

  230. I mentioned the iseman story, which some think wee some kind of victory but the atormtpy Daniels atoey by the previously respectable journal is just one recent example. More seriouslupy in eichenwalds misrepresentation of texaco in q996.

    narciso (d1f714)

  231. I heard someone earnestly say the Alexandria shooter had no ideology.

    Pinandpuller (16b0b5)

  232. Right this is when graham Chapman walks onset and atarta slapping people with his riding crop.

    narciso (d1f714)

  233. 224.I think most of the British may think many areas of the USA are pretty much sh!tholes, so who’s kidding who?

    =Haiku!= Gesundheit!

    Much worse; plastic and nouveau riche.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  234. Re Haiti, yes after the peraltist in the 20s there was surprising little resiatance, by the time of the early 60s dyvalier Pete was becoming an embarassment so there was an operation to dispatch him as had been to Trujillo two years before guess what happened.

    narciso (21eb6d)

  235. I think I may have mentioned it but probably the first time QE2 used currency was in Sheridan, WY.

    Don’t sell Liz short; you won’t find any bone spurs in her past:

    ‘After months of begging her father to let his heir pitch in, Elizabeth—then an 18-year-old princess—joined the Women’s Auxiliary Territorial Service during World War II. Known as Second Subaltern Elizabeth Windsor, she donned a pair of coveralls and trained in London as a mechanic and military truck driver. The queen remains the only female member of the royal family to have entered the armed forces and is the only living head of state who served in World War II.’ – history.com

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  236. omg the vapid royal tart wore overalls let’s give her a medal

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  237. If someone said “Iran is a poophole” when their government was shooting its own people protesting on the streets, no one would be particularly offended by that statement. And if another said “we should totally take in less immigrants from this poophole nation” most fair minded people would know what’s argued. It’s not a “slur” against an entire people, or that all of them will hate America and refuse to contribute when they arrive.

    There’s no doubt this isn’t presidential behavior, but we’ve seen enough of Trump in action to know how he operate. He calls Rosie O’donnell a fat pig, belittled Kim Jong Un as “Rocketman” in the UN (even offhandedly calling for his demise) and calls gang members “bad hombre”. He’s a hardliner, almost in the Michael Savage mold, and he likes to taunt his opposition.

    Trump called Haiti (or Africa?) “poophole” for the same reason any of us call us Detroit or New Jersey “poopholes”. In his mind it’s a broken world with lots of crime, poverty and radicalization, and he wants less of it in America. He didn’t single out Vietnam or India, which are poor non white nations but aren’t wrecked by anarchy. Of course this isn’t a nuanced position, given that stats show most immigrants aren’t any more dangerous or less productive than natives. But it’s an argument that can be made, in better terms.

    Jake Tapper says “take them out” was referring to taking Haitians out of DACA or amnesty deals. To me Trump was being Trump in articulating his “we should take in less people from hostile regions for the safety of America.” Bad language aside, I don’t believe this was a freudian slip of racism.

    I would be displeased if some random liberal trash talked a red state as some hicktown, and I’ve never been to the south. So the anger over Trump’s comment is understandable. Whether he can ever moderate himself is a mystery.

    lee (b56b65)

  238. isn’t it strange how mother-of-the-year rosie o’donnell hasn’t had a #metoo moment?

    so weird

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  239. happyfeet (28a91b) — 1/14/2018 @ 10:19 pm

    That’s because it is still a man’s whirl.

    felipe (023cc9)

  240. i wish i had your confidence

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  241. I could tell you a secret, and then you would.

    felipe (023cc9)

  242. whisper

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  243. @217.It is not Mr. President who is snubbing the British… It is the British who are snubbing Mr. President. And what does that say about him given our special relationship with the UK?

    It says it all. Britons are tough birds; often underestimated. Londoners endured plagues, fires, Nazis bombing their city day and night for months and the IRA terrorizing it for years. They stay calm and carry on. Americans, not so much, judging by the reaction of befuddled-if-not-panicked Hawaiians scurrying about from one mistaken missile alert.

    Brits aren’t snubbing an American president, they’re snubbing a putz from Queens.

    “I hate the British! You are defeated but you have no shame. You are stubborn but you have no pride. You endure but you have no courage.” – Colonel Saito [Sessue Hayakawa] ‘Bridge On The River Kwai’ 1957

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  244. 246.i wish i had your confidence

    New Year’s recharge, Mr. Feet!! Watched some tape tonight of the 2016 election returns. Mr. Matthews and Ms. Maddow were so sad; Mr. O’Donnell insisted America was crying; the Dow futures free-falling at 17,000. Could our Captain ‘Make America Great Again’??? Stay-tuned!

    “What a difference a day makes; 24 little hours…” – Dinah Washington

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  245. If only we could send William Holden over to sort out the Vichy mayor of londinistan.

    Kill him! Kill him!“Bridge on the River Kwai”

    Turban Durbin would pitch a snit. We can’t have that.

    papertiger (c8116c)

  246. is it weird how repressed military homo lindsey graham who’s spent his whole life living a lie

    is suddenly the preeminent arbiter of truth?

    i think it’s really weird

    happyfeet (28a91b)

  247. I have been saying Iran is a poophole since 1979. HELLO! Where have you been. Mostly because I know Iranians. And I share their dislike for the theocracy.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  248. I get a lot of my ‘tude toward Islamic theocracies from Muslims came to this country to escape that crap.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  249. Then there was the self-study.

    Steve57 (0b1dac)

  250. judging by the reaction of befuddled-if-not-panicked Hawaiians scurrying about from one mistaken missile alert.

    Relatively speaking, they handled it pretty well for a place where the men go out in public in wrap-around mini-skirts.

    nk (dbc370)

  251. Well, tying 2 items together discussed upthread – this might set off some people in a bad way: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/watch-vikings-win-on-impossible-walk-off-td-pass-destroy-gamblers-by-taking-knee-on-xp/

    urbanleftbehind (1d0126)

  252. isn’t it strange how mother-of-the-year rosie o’donnell hasn’t had a #metoo moment?”

    Too late. It’s already jumped the shark:

    GUANTANAMO BAY NAVY BASE, Cuba — The first war court session of the year got off to a rocky start Monday with the alleged 9/11 plotters accusing the guard force of sexual harassment by conducting “groin searches” instead of using scanners.

    Miami Herald
    January 8, 2018

    harkin (8256c3)


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