Republican Rep. Ed Henry: Roy Moore’s Accusers Should Be Prosecuted
[guest post by Dana]
In light of the allegations of sexual misconduct against Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore, I wanted to point something out. One of the arguments being made to cast doubt upon Moore’s accuser, specifically Leigh Corfdon, is the same argument that has been repeatedly used with regard to women who have made allegations of sexual misconduct against Harvey Weinstein. The line goes something like this: Why did she wait so long to come forward? The inference often being that if something really happened, accusers would have come forward when it happened. Another assumption is, they waited because nothing really happened, thus are lying. Or, they waited because they got paid to keep quiet (therefore any accusations are moot). And then there’s the belief that they waited just so they could cash in at just the right time. Some even believe that they waited until someone else came forward, providing them with a popular victim bandwagon to jump onto. And unique to the Moore case, they waited for an optimal moment to influence an election outcome because this is nothing more than a political hit job. For the sake of this post, I am going to focus on Moore’s particular situation.
As you are aware, the Washington Post reported that in 1979, Roy Moore, then a 32-year old assistant district attorney, met 14-year old Leigh Corfman in front of an Etowah County courthouse in Alabama:
Alone with Corfman, Moore chatted with her and asked for her phone number, she says. Days later, she says, he picked her up around the corner from her house in Gadsden, drove her about 30 minutes to his home in the woods, told her how pretty she was and kissed her. On a second visit, she says, he Inflatable football helmet tunnel took off her shirt and pants and removed his clothes. He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear.
“I wanted it over with — I wanted out,” she remembers thinking. “Please just get this over with. Whatever this is, just get it over.”
In discussing why she waited so long to tell her story, the now 53-year old Corfman, who is a Republican and voted for Donald Trump, explained:
She says she thought of confronting Moore personally for years, and almost came forward publicly during his first campaign for state Supreme Court in 2000, but decided against it. Her two children were still in school then and she worried about how it would affect them. She also was concerned that her background — three divorces and a messy financial history — might undermine her credibility.
“There is no one here that doesn’t know that I’m not an angel,” Corfman says, referring to her home town of Gadsden.
“I have prayed over this,” Corfman says, explaining why she decided to tell her story now. “All I know is that I can’t sit back and let this continue, let him continue without the mask being removed.”
Sadly, in the age of the internet, Corfman’s concerns are proving to be well founded. She is being maligned in the blogosphere by random people who are using her financial difficulties and poor life choices as evidence that she is not to be trusted (I’m not going to link them). This in spite of Corfman already admitting that these factors kept her from coming forward sooner. Further, she also explained that she considered telling her story at various times during Moore’s career but because of how it might impact her children, she chose not to. I can understand Corfman’s reluctance to come forward. It’s no small thing to see one’s life publicly turned inside out and upside down, as well as face the condemnation and notoriety that would surely come with such allegations. Frankly, it’s easy to see why any woman with a similar story involving a public figure would choose to remain silent. But one thing we haven’t seen yet in the recent onslaught of sexual misconduct accusations in Hollywood and elsewhere, are intimidation tactics being used by…an elected official. Until now.
Alabama State Rep. Ed Henry (R) has not only publicly defended Roy Moore, saying that he believes the Washington Post story is a political hit job, but he has also suggested that legal action should be considered against Moore’s accusers because he doesn’t find their story believable:
If they believe this man is predatory, they are guilty of allowing him to exist for 40 years. I think someone should prosecute and go after them. You can’t be a victim 40 years later, in my opinion.
Rep. Henry doesn’t specify any actual legal statute broken. Instead, the state official has simply decided that these women are guilty in their silence, and must pay. This is not coming from you or me, or any Joe Blow on the internet. This is coming from an elected official. I don’t know if this legally constitutes an abuse of power by Rep. Henry per se, but at the very least, it appears to be an intimidating statement, as well as a warning to others who might have their own stories involving Moore. And it is being made by an individual who is well aware of the fact that what he says publicly carries more weight and power than those not holding public office. If Corfman was already afraid of coming forward for the reasons cited above, how much more now that a politician holding office has publicly decided that she (and the others) should be prosecuted? For some people, perhaps those educated and with a more sophisticated knowledge of the world around them, they would simply shake their heads in disgust and dismiss this self-righteous blowhard. But for others, perhaps those less savvy and without broad experiences, they easily might react to his intimidation by keeping quiet and never sharing their own stories for fear of being threatened with prosecution. In the corrupt world of politics and obscene party loyalty, it really isn’t cynical at all to believe that fear is precisely the reaction that Rep. Henry hoped for with his comments.
(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)
–Dana
I am reminded of Hillary Clinton’s response to the women involved in the bimbo eruption and who made allegations of sexual misconduct against Bill Clinton.
Dana (023079) — 11/11/2017 @ 4:07 pmMr. Henry is correct. If honey boo boo truly believes she spent decades covering for a sexual predator she needs to be held accountable for that.
It’s not necessarily a legal matter, of course, but a moral one.
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 4:15 pmThis is a person who touched her through her bra and panties on their second date, and she just let him walk away.
How many other people subsequently got touched through their bra and panties on the second date as a consequence?
We may never know. But we know the one person that could have stopped this spiraling horror is the one person who decided to remain silent.
And silence is consent.
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 4:22 pm@Dana:I am reminded of Hillary Clinton’s response to the women involved in the bimbo eruption and who made allegations of sexual misconduct against Bill Clinton.
She didn’t say that they were covering up for her predator husband, that I recall.
In Rep. Henry’s place I wouldn’t say what he did. But Rep. Henry faces the prospect, in his next election, of being accused of crimes from 40 years ago that no one can prove or disprove, so I’m not in his place.
At some point our new standard of evidence is going to consume the career of someone who might later be shown to be innocent, too much later to do any good. George Takei might be that person. Or maybe another public figure.
It will get worse before it gets better.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 4:26 pmHenry is not calling for Moore’s accusers to be prosecuted for accusing Moore now, but for failing to accuse him 40 years ago when it happened, if true. I think Dana’s headline makes it very easy to fall into the opposite sense from which I am sure Dana intends it to be taken.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 4:28 pm@Dana:One of the arguments being made to cast doubt upon Moore’s accuser, specifically Leigh Corfdon, is the same argument that has been repeatedly used with regard to women who have made allegations of sexual misconduct against Harvey Weinstein.
In Weinstein’s case there are multiple contemporaneous accounts and indeed an audiotape–that Weinstein did what he did is not actually in doubt at this moment.
In Moore’s case, it is the word of one person. Now this one person may be telling the truth. This one person may have told a consistent story over the years. But the available evidence that proves Weinstein’s guilt is not here.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 4:31 pmIn this image, there are four actresses. Guess which one claims that two (not one!, two!) men, an actor and a director, made indecent propositions to her. Just go ahead and guess.
nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2017 @ 4:32 pmOff topic; but sunset; colors lowered– tip of the hat to America’s service men and women this Veteran’s Day.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/11/2017 @ 4:34 pmShe also was concerned that her background — three divorces and a messy financial history — might undermine her credibility.
honey boo boo had no divorces, and yet she remained silent
honey boo boo got married and divorced, her first divorce, and she kept her silence still
honey boo boo had her second divorce, and she remained steadfast in her silence
honey boo boo had a third divorce, and though she was still haunted by what happened on that fateful second date, her lips remained sealed like gogo lips
Roy Moore runs for Senate forty years after their second date, and suddenly divorce is not a factor! 🙂
zero divorces – not a factor
one divorce – this will not deter her
two divorces – hah she says – these divorces are trivial set against the righteousness of my cause
three divorces! oh how little power over me you have, oh third divorce! You are but water and I am the back of a mighty duck!
these divorces they fall away like dandruff, and she has a moment of clarity
she knows now what she must do
honey boo boo free at last
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 4:35 pmSecond that DC. Veterans..thank you
Surprised there wasn’t a tribute here.
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 11/11/2017 @ 4:39 pmYou are a poet, happyfeet!
nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2017 @ 4:41 pmI am a Republican but I would walk over glass to vote against this bunch. I only regret that the election is a year away.
Roy Moore, Steve Bannon and our Putin-loving President who dumped on our intelligence community while overseas today. If last Tuesday was any indication, it will be a long night for Republicans candidates next November. A well deserved rebuke.
noel (b4d580) — 11/11/2017 @ 4:43 pmDana, you should see Henry’s CNN AC360 interview from Friday night. He ‘backed off’ some on the prosecution babble but he was rambling on so oddly it got a loud and hilarious “This guy is crazy!” from an aging parent watching in another room.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/11/2017 @ 4:46 pmMultiple independent witnesses corroborated that Jackie Coakley told them she was raped by Haven Monahan at UVa. It took months to examine those stories to the level of detail required to conclude that it was more likely than not that there was no such person as Haven Monahan and no rape. And everyone who did question that evidence was at first accused of being an apologist for rape.
I have little use for Roy Moore, but I am concerned about how we treat these kinds of accusations, where the actual act is known only through one person’s word.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 4:49 pmAccording to Juanita Broaddrick, Hillary (using her position) attempted to intimidate accusers to keep. quiet, using veiled warnings, IIRC.
Dana (023079) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:17 pm@Dana:According to Juanita Broaddrick, Hillary (using her position) attempted to intimidate accusers to keep. quiet, using veiled warnings, IIRC.
These warnings were not, “Since you knew my husband was a sex offender, you should have told others”.
She has never acknowledged that he was a predator.
This is not the same thing Henry is saying. Henry is saying, if you know a man is a dangerous predator you should say something at the time. Hillary was saying, these women are lying.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:20 pmFrederick, the point I am making is that like Hillary, I believe Henry is warning others who may have their own stories involving to keep quiet. It’s an effort at intimidation.
Dana (023079) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:22 pmDana, Henry is saying women should have come forward.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:23 pm@ Frederick,
I did not say they were.
Nor did I say that she had.
Nor did I say that. What I did said – and inferred in light of the post – was that Henry’s efforts at intimidation and veiled warning reminded me of Hillary’s similar efforts. Please don’t misconstrue nor mischaracterize what I actually said.
Dana (023079) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:26 pm@Dana: was that Henry’s efforts at intimidation and veiled warning reminded me of Hillary’s similar efforts.
I’m denying your inference by pointing out what is very different between the two. That is not misconstruing.
I am saying one thing is unlike the other in an important way. Same thing with Weinstein, which is unlike this case in an important way.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:30 pmthat one honey boo boo what was kissed twice in three months came forward *before* Mr. Henry began his intimidation campaign
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:30 pmIt’s also possible that instead of fear Rep. Henry hoped that justice under the law might somehow prevail in this insane witch hunt atmosphere of guilt by accusation.
Either we respect our legal traditions or submit to mob rule by the most brutish among our self-righteous savages.
ropelight (3dc687) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:32 pmFrederick,
Does it bother you that an elected official publicly said that because these women kept silent for a period of time, they should be prosecuted?
Dana (023079) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:33 pmtake back the night!
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:33 pm@Dana:Does it bother you that an elected official publicly said that because these women kept silent for a period of time, they should be prosecuted?
If the elected official had said exactly that, I might, but what he said has an important qualifier that you left out here, to wit: “If they believe this man is predatory, they are guilty of allowing him to exist for 40 years.”
Some professionals are legally culpable if they fail to report such things.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:35 pmI could not help but think about some of my friends who I lost in Vietnam today. I’m old now but we were young men then. Times were different. A lot of us got shot up and a few died. But we managed to kill a lot more of the enemy than they did us. I killed a lot of communists in Vietnam. Some no doubt, were good citizens and patriots to their cause. Now I see a great many Americans wanting to limit other people’s speech that they disagree with and they even call it “hate speech”. A bad guy or a crazy guy kills a bunch of people and they want to limit firearms to those of us who didn’t commit the crime. They blame the NRA and so far I haven’t seen any indication that the killers were NRA members. Of they were I’m sure the media would have broadcast it long and loud.
Our right to own property is under assault with decisions like Kelo and the belief by some that you are free to earn money but once you earn “too much” you become a 1%’er and need to have it taken away. If you’re stopped by the cops on a suspicion of DUI you have to take a breath test or you are guilty. They call that “implied consent”. They can take your home, business and bank account, even your IRA’s and they call that “forfeiture”.
If you believe that nobody has a right to come to America and that anybody who wants to mas to do it according to our rules and it should benefit America, not them you’re a racist. If you believe people should be judged by their character you are also a racist. If you don’t believe in abortion you’re an anti woman misogynist. If you think homosexuality is a disorder and want to encourage them to get help you’re a homophobe. And if you think the phony religion of peace that has been murdering and raping its way across the globe for 1500 years should not be imported into America so they can make us like Iraq you are of course an Islamophobe.
I can’t help but think I fought for the wrong country, killed the wrong enemy, bled for the wrong cause. There always seems to be a good reason to tear down historic statues, remove names from pews and buildings, burn flags, take a knee and erase our history, but there never seems to be a good reason any more to be proud Americans. The radical left has no love for America and they show that by wanting to change everything about it. They say “diversity makes us strong”. That’s a lie. What made America strong was people came from all over to be Americas, E Pluribus Unum.
Perhaps it is time for another civil war. It would be a real mess since one team has 200 million firearms and four trillion rounds of ammo and the other team can’t figure out what rest room to use.
Have a good Veterans Day.
Rev.Hoagie® (6bbda7) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:41 pm@Rev’m Hoagie:I can’t help but think I fought for the wrong country, killed the wrong enemy, bled for the wrong cause.
No, you didn’t. You fought for the right one. It’s just imperfect. There is no perfect country out there you could have fought for (except Switzerland, which wouldn’t have needed you).
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:43 pmRoy Moore proved well before this latest stink bomb that he was unfit for office. Literally. Yes, literally removed from office. Twice!
Maybe my fellow Republicans should remember that we actually lost the 2016 election by three million votes. (No Donald… you didn’t win.) And they are headed for a tsunami in 2018 that’ll make that look like nothing.
noel (b4d580) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:44 pmAlabama teen
Which one do you mean?
Alabama teen
Just bought her ice cream
Way down towards Mobile
The Etowah county way
I met a junior high lady
I called the Alabama teen
Didn’t know she was a freshman
Algebra’s better with wine
While the rest of these lawyers was a billing their hours
I don’t mind saying I was counting mine
Alabama teen
I might know who you mean
Alabama teen
I taught her everything
This lady she told me
Watch my daughter man
Won’t swear that I told her
I’ll do the best that I can
She looked young, pretty
With an oily T Zone
While the rest of them judges was a getting their their robes
Buddy, don’t you know I was losing mine
Knows her way around a corkscrew
Don’t like screw cap wine
While the rest of these lawyers was a making partners
Brotha don’t you know I was grooming mine
Ohhhhhhh Alabama Teen!!!!
Pinandpuller (2e01d0) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:45 pmYes, I know. He won the presidency. He won the electoral college. But no, he cannot create a reality in which he won the popular vote.
noel (b4d580) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:47 pmMaybe my fellow Republicans should remember that we actually lost the 2016 election by three million votes.
If you’re a Republican, I’m a Martian. If you were a Republican, you’d know that your [snicker] “fellow Republicans” not only won the House and the Senate but they did it with a raw vote total of 63,173,815 versus the Dems’ 61,776,554.
nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:51 pmAnd if they haven’t come forward by now, they should keep their tramp mouths shut or go to jail.
This is what you are defending, Frederick.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 5:52 pmSlate: Roy Moore’s Democratic Challenger Recently Ran an Ad Praising the Confederate Army.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2017/11/10/doug_jones_ad_confederate_officer_brave_soldiers_believed_in_their_cause.html
Obviously a white supremacist nazi, must withdraw from race.
harkin (a9a478) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:03 pmthe tawdry second date episode with honey boo boo #1 happened only months after Mitt Romney’s church finally decided black people were worthy of becoming priests Mr. Harkin
it was a dark time
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:06 pmoops Mr. *harkin* i mean
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:07 pmThe nation has turned into a cesspool.
mg (60b0f7) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:09 pmGo Convicts Go!!!
destroy t.d.j.
@Patterico:And if they haven’t come forward by now, they should keep their tramp mouths shut or go to jail.
That is your characterization of the quote, not the actual quote.
This is what you are defending, Frederick.
I am not defending your characterization of the quote. I am disagreeing with your characterization.
Please refer to my earlier comment:
“At some point our new standard of evidence is going to consume the career of someone who might later be shown to be innocent, too much later to do any good. George Takei might be that person. Or maybe another public figure.”
That is my overriding concern here.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:10 pmIncidentally all 50 states have seen fit to impose mandatory reporting requirements on some professionals, and 18 states have carried this so far as to impose them on every citizen. Suspicions are what is to be reported.
Alabama has had mandatory reporting since 1975. Medical professionals, local and state officials, and clergy are included. Jail time is one of the penalties. Suspicion is what they are mandated to report.
I think those laws are likely to do more harm than good.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:16 pm35 to 40 years later… statute of limitations in play decades ago…no way to prove or disprove… Moore has run for several offices over the years, nothing alleged, nothing said… this is what Democrats do.
Grow some stones and do the right thing for a change.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:18 pmHere’s a 2014 article on it. I don’t know exactly what the law said back in the 1980s when this all happened, but some of the people corroborating this story were mandated reporters at the time.
The issue of who and when suspected child abuse is to be reported came up last week when a man stepped forward to say that the former pastor at Lakeside Baptist Church in the late 1990s had covered up allegations of sexual abuse by the church’s youth minister Mack Allen Davis.
The pastor, the Rev. Mike McLemore, who is now executive director of the Birmingham Baptist Association, has denied the accusation, although he acknowledged dealing with the situation privately and confidentially with the family, which included forcing a youth pastor to retire early. McLemore said he advised the family what they had the right to do…
…According to Schiffman’s synopsis:
Who needs to report?
Hospitals, clinics, sanitariums, doctors, physicians, surgeons, medical examiners, coroners, dentists, osteopaths, optometrists, chiropractors, podiatrists, nurses, school teachers and officials, peace officers, law enforcement officials, pharmacists, social workers, day care workers or employees, mental health professionals, members of the clergy, or any other person called upon to render aid or medical assistance to any child.
When?
When the child is known or suspected to be a victim of child abuse or neglect.
Immediately by phone and follow up in writing.
What is abuse?
Harm or threatened harm to child’s health or welfare.
Non-accidental physical or mental injury, sexual abuse or exploitation, rape, molestation, prostitution, child pornography, incest.
Who do I tell?
Department of Human Resources
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:19 pmLocal law enforcement agency
The real way the story, if false, could be exploded, is with the question of how this came to the attention of the Washington Post reporter.
None of the women, (and that includes Leigh Corfman) it is repeatedly stated, as if that would be some indication of the truth of the allegations, rather than just the opposite, approached the reporter.
Instead he was tipped off.
I’ll ell you more. Most likely not very specifically. They made the reporter work for his story, so he’d have more confidence in it.
Except that I suspect the story of “how I got that story” is going to turn out to be a long chain of “coincidences” that shouldn’t pass the smell test.
My guess is that, if this is false, what the intermediate sources say as to how they came to know about it and how a reporter came to be told about this, is not going to check out.
We cannot judge the truth or falsehood of Leigh Corfman’s claim without knowing who those sources were , and there is no reason for the Washington Post to protect them. I won’t buy it. But nobody’s asking. It’s like it’s hopeless to ask. I’m sorry, if you want to get to the bottom of this, you’ve got to. And people are being pushed not to have any doubts. I’m sorry, that’s wrong too.
Maybe Roy Moore found out something (he seemed to be saying today he’ll have some information) to reveal), but I wouldn’t put it above the deviousness and the skills of the people who got this story going to feed Roy Moore false or half false information, in order to rebut his refutation, t furtehr “prove” he’s got no defense but lies..
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:20 pmIn this image, there are four actresses. Guess which one claims that two (not one!, two!) men, an actor and a director, made indecent propositions to her. Just go ahead and guess.
nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2017 @ 4:32 pm
One of those girls employs a lawyer named Dagget from Yell County and you do not wish to meet him.
Pinandpuller (2e01d0) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:26 pmshe married
she divorced
she persisted
Pinandpuller (2e01d0) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:29 pmAlone with Corfman, Moore chatted with her and asked for her phone number,
What!? She had her own phone number? Being age 14, poor and all that? What number did she give?
Corfman says, explaining why she decided to tell her story now.
But the Washington Post says elsewhere, she didn’t decide to tell her story.
Somebody tipped off a Washington Post reporter, or rather, left a trail of breadcrumbs for him or her to follow.
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:30 pmlynch NOW there’s gonna be plenty of time for questions later
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:31 pmA valid concern that does not justify your defending this shitbag’s threat of prosecution.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:33 pmSammy, what was the rabbinical penalty for bearing false witness?
nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:35 pm@Patterico:this shitbag’s threat of prosecution.
Mandatory reporting laws make this threat possible. I have grave reservations about these laws, since they require reporting suspicions. But if someone, who was a mandatory reporter, says now that they suspected this at the time but didn’t say anything, then it would seem the law allows for it.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:45 pm@Patterico:this sh*tbag’s threat of prosecution.
Mandatory reporting laws make this threat possible. I have grave reservations about these laws, since they require reporting suspicions. But if someone, who was a mandatory reporter, says now that they suspected this at the time but didn’t say anything, then it would seem the law allows for it.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:46 pmwell said Mr. Henry I’ve never heard it put quite like that before
but also
I think this says a lot about the esteem in which Mr. Moore is held in Alabama, and maybe suggests that the more Alabama voters hear from people like grand wizard Mitt Romney and goober-ass John McCain, the more likelihood Mr. Moore has of coming out of this smelling like the proverbial Mateus Rose
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:49 pmAnyway, I am not defending Henry. I am disputing the characterizations of his statement that are being made here.
People do get prosecuted for failing to report suspicions. I think this is wrong. I think it is a perverse incentive built into these laws.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:51 pmThat’s all so very well-researched and sensible, Frederick.
*Columbo turns around with a puzzled look*
Just one more thing:
Who’s the mandatory reporter here?
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:55 pmthat chick in the DA’s office maybe?
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:56 pmI’m sure if Leigh Corfman had a separate phone number, it was listed. What was her maiden name? I suppose the same as what her mother’s is now.
Anybody check Alabama telephone books from the area that includes Etowah County (includes Gadsden) from 1978 or 1979??
Let’s suppose he got a telephone number, and it was her mother’s. How would that play out?
Calls the number. Mother picks up. Hangs up. Calls the number, mother picks up hangs up. Calls a third time. Mother picks up. Hangs up. Calls a fourth time. Daughter picks up finally. Asks her when she’s home alone so he can speak further. Calls a fifth time and arranges a date.
Or does he tell the mother?
Her response is:
Are you out of your cotton pickin’ mind? You don’t want to date me, you want to date my barely teenage daughter?Fine, go ahead. When do you want to pick her up?
Or is there some other way he calls her up without her mother knowing? Like he learns when she’s at work? Why is that detail missing, though?
I mean, there are pieces of this story just glided over.
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:56 pmColombo’s going to ask about that telephone number.
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:57 pmDo mandatory reporting laws require that a customer service representative at a payday loan business report something that happened to her?
Sounds like some bullshit, Frederick.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:57 pmWhen I was dating teenagers as a teenager, they gave me their phone number. It went to this thing called a house phone, Sammy.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:58 pmone of honey boo boo’s renditions of the story says she made the guy pick her up around the corner if i remember right Mr. F
and I think Mama June said she didn’t know about anything until a long time after any of this happened
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:59 pm@Patterico:Who’s the mandatory reporter here?
“Teresa Jones, who served as Deputy District Attorney for Etowah County, Ala., from 1982 until 1985, said that multiple people thought it was unusual that Moore dated high school girls, but that no one ever raised the matter with him.”
If she had suspicions at the time that Moore sexually assaulted a child, then she was obligated to report those suspicions.
Maybe she had no such suspicions then.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:01 pm@Patterico:Do mandatory reporting laws require that a customer service representative at a payday loan business report something that happened to her?
In 18 states any person who suspects child abuse or neglect is required to report suspected abuse or neglect regardless of profession. Alabama does not appear to be one.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:04 pmNah only a prosecutor which had gone after Dr hatfill based no evidence, or one who would put a reporter in jail even if they aReady the source would do that.
narciso (d1f714) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:05 pmNoticing Moore was dating teenagers would not, IMO, he knowledge of “Non-accidental physical or mental injury, sexual abuse or exploitation, rape, molestation, prostitution, child pornography, incest” that had to be reported.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:07 pmRichard Shelby was Democrat who used Penn & Schoen * as his pollster when he first ran for the Senate in 1986, but he switched parties in 1994 when the Republicans again won a majority in the Senate.
——-
* The same polling firm used by Mayor Ed Koch, and I think by Pennzoil and the USFL for purposes of jury selection. (they found out the less anyone knew about football, the better they would be as jurors for them.)
They also did push polls on abortion by Planned Parenthood. (that Planned Parenthood could later cite)
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:07 pmI am not dumb, Frederick. I can easily see through your deception here.
Teresa Jones is not who Ed Henry was talking about.
Try again. This time be honest.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:07 pmLook, Patterico, I didn’t make these laws, which in California say a person who fails to make a required report is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by up to six months in jail and/or up to a $1,000 fine. And I’m not defending Henry’s statement, which I already said I wouldn’t make in his place.
But at least one of these people quoted on Moore was a mandated reporter and anyone in Alabama who was a mandated reporter at the time, has suspicions then, and did not report them as obligated could potentially be prosecuted. That’s a terrible law, but there it is.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:09 pm57. Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:58 pm
But that’s the problem.
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:09 pmThis is true, and I wanted to add that even Jones appears to have no obligation to report.
BUT
Ed Henry was not talking about Jones.
So who’s the mandatory reporter and why did Frederick bring up mandatory reporting?
To confuse the issue. Just like Mike K tried to confuse the issue by conflating Gibson with Corfman and lying about which was which.
It’s all part of a smear job.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:09 pmYou’re taking this too far afield, Frederick. Ed Henry is a squirrel. He is just another person out of millions talking about this. What he has to say does not make Moore any more or any less guilty nor his accuser any less or more truthful.
The gist of the matter is that this lady is now someone important for the first time in her life. Like Monica Lewinsky, and without having to buy zinc throat lozenges. And if this stuff manages to bring down Roy Moore, she too might get a book deal.
nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:12 pm58. happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:59 pm
So how did he get in touch with her without her mother knowing, being as she didn’t have her own phone number? (if that is correct)
Oh, there are all sorts of ways that could have happened, but it’s an important part of the story.
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:13 pmthis contrived nonsense won’t bring down Mr. Moore
Alabama people aren’t stupid you know
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:13 pmFrederick, we’re talking about Henry’s threat of prosecution.
You’re trying to make it sound like it had validity.
That is dishonest because it had no validity. It’s just thuggery.
So be honest and say it had no validity and was just thuggery.
Then, if you want to have a discussion about whether AS TO OTHER WOMEN there might have been a reporting requirement for a DA, triggered by a belief that it was weird Moore was dating young girls, we can have that discussion, and you can start by acknowledging DRJ’s smackdown of that stupid argument.
But ONLY after you acknowledge that Henry’s statement had no validity and was just thuggery.
Or you can keep pretending otherwise in which case you are being dishonest. And I don’t care if you want to get all butthurt that I’m saying so, because it’s the truth.
So which is it gonna be?
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:13 pmRep. Henry should be censured. So should the Congressman who said the Senate should refuse to seat Moore. The voters of Alabama can decide whether to believe Moore or the one witness against him who has described criminal and immoral behavior. But it would be outrageous to prosecute the alleged victim, or to refuse to seat an elected Senator, because of subjective opinions about who’s telling the truth concerning events of 38 years ago for which there is no evidence but the two competing claims.
David Pittelli (c51465) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:14 pmSo how did he get in touch with her without her mother knowing, being as she didn’t have her own phone number? (if that is correct)
maybe she just made it all up
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:14 pm@Patterico:I can easily see through your deception here
I’ll thank you not to accuse me of bad faith. I will try very hard here to stick to people’s actual words.
Dana: “I don’t know if this legally constitutes an abuse of power by Rep. Henry per se, but at the very least, it appears to be an intimidating statement, as well as a warning to others who might have their own stories involving Moore.”
These others “who might have their own stories” that Dana believes Henry is threatening, who are they? If they were mandated reporters, yes there is a law about this. A very well-intentioned and stupid law.
Only one of the people cited on the Moore story was, to my knowledge, a mandatory reporter and if she didn’t suspect sexual assault of a minor–just the dating-legal-teens part, which is highly inappropriate and was then–then she didn’t do anything wrong.
But these future corroborators that Dana believes may exist, who may be intimidated by Henry’s statement–if they were mandated reporters then then yes there is a law the prescribes penalties. That is a fact. In all 50 states.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:15 pmnk @68 We know exactly how Monica Lewinsky’s story became known. Linda Tripp told someone – I think Paula Jones’s lawyers at first. Who’s the Linda Tripp here, and does she have an explanation as to how she knew both the fact of the physical encounter and who to tell about it?
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:16 pmReverse the parties in the late 1990s and most of the people here would have been smearing Monica Lewinsky like there’s no tomorrow.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:16 pmI’ll thank you not to engage in it, when you stop.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:16 pm73. happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:14 pm
I don’t think that’s very likely.
Maybe somebody else made it up for her. That would be more likely.
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:17 pmAnyone remember the near universal smear campaign to railroad the Duke LaCrosse players? Remember how a significant portion of the Duke faculty assumed the players were guilty without a shread of real evidence. Remember how the District Attprney got so caught up in the lynch mob mentality he suppressed exculpatory evidence?
Remember that even after it became obvious the accuser was a lying slut, the true believers continued to condemn the innocent players? Remember that those who refuse to learn the lessons of the past are most likely to commit similar errors?
ropelight (3dc687) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:17 pm@Patterico: Before this gets worse, do we agree about this statement? If so, perhaps we can work forward, without rancor, from there:
But these future corroborators that Dana believes may exist, who may be intimidated by Henry’s statement–if they were mandated reporters then then yes there is a law the prescribes penalties. That is a fact. In all 50 states.
True, or false?
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:17 pm“Henry’s threat had no validity and was just thuggery.”
Say it, Frederick. You’re trying very hard not to. Because you’re being dishonest.
I’ll thank you to make that very obviously true statement. Then I’ll thank you for not engaging in dishonesty.
As long as you keep trying to make it sound like Henry had a point, I’ll keep calling you deceptive. And you can try to pretend to be all dignified but you’re still peddling bullshit and I’m calling you out.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:18 pm@ropelight. Here, this is not likely to ever get into any court, where there could be discovery and cross examination.
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:19 pmI’m not going to be asked to agree or disagree with your statement because the issue is what Henry said, and the fact that what Henry said had no validity and was thuggery.
STEP ONE is dealing with that.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:19 pmAmazon/WAPO needs to be interred.
jcurtis (226923) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:21 pm@Patterico:Because you’re being dishonest.
Going to chalk this up to cross-posting. True or false: anyone who in the future says they suspected this about Moore at the time, if they were a mandatory reporter, could be punished for not having reported it at the time.
If you agree this is true, then let’s talk about whether what Henry said was a threat and whether it was valid.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:21 pmLet’s review the quote:
He is talking about prosecuting the victims. Not this DA. The victims.
They are not mandatory reporters of anything.
“Henry’s threat had no validity and was just thuggery.”
It’s true. Say it.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:22 pm@Patterico:STEP ONE is dealing with that.
Definitely cross-posting.
I’m sorry, these laws exist, whether I say what you want me to or not.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:22 pmIt’s my blog and my comment section and I asked you first.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:23 pmDone with you. You’re distorting what Dana said and deliberately squirting octopus ink to obscure the real issue.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:24 pm@Patterico:It’s my blog and my comment section and I asked you first.
If anyone who was told by Corfman about a sexual assault did not report it, and they were not mandated reporters, Henry’s statement should not apply to them. If they had been it would, but I don’t know that anyone who knew of Corfman’s charges would count, since I don’t know what their jobs were then. The article does not say which of Moore’s accusers Henry had in mind. Perhaps a full transcript of his remarks, which I have not seen, would indicate which. The threat of prosecution can be fairly characterized as thuggery, but it only exists because of mandatory reporting laws.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:28 pmThe questionis anyway, who would have been a mandatory reporter in 1979? And of what, and when? Who supposedly knew about any of this? Not even her mother.
The question how does somebody know about it and also know who to tell, in 2017?? Leigh Corfman was not the original source who contacted the Washington Post reporter.
So, who’s the Linda Tripp, here? And how does the Washington Post find the other three women?
I mean with Harvey Weinstein, with Bill Cosby, with Kevin Spacey, we didn’t have several people who didn’t know each other all coming forward at the same time in some publication. Now we had Ronan Farrow collecting stories that were out there known to some people.
Did somebody obtain Roy Moore’s little black book from 1979? I mean, what are we supposed to believe? A gigantic series of coincidences? Luck??
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:28 pmthis whole thing really is a lot more like a reality show than something you should take super seriously i think
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:29 pmI am pre turkey day thankful the republican party is imploding.
mg (60b0f7) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:29 pmHenry seems to be assuming this was maybe like the Harvey Weinstein situation: a lot of people knew.
Or rather, that it is being portrayed that way.
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:30 pmThe on;y way anybody would know is if the women talked. Makes sense in Hollywood. At any workplace. Not here.
Anyway nobody could be prosecuted because the statute of limitations for that if it ever applied, has long expired and the people are probably even retired from their jobs.
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:34 pmTune in tomorrow for teh next episode…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:35 pmwhat probably happened was her brother was on the sofa eatin chocolate pie
and her mama – follow along now – she was in the kitchen cuttin chicken up to fry
her daddy was in the backyard rollin up a garden hose
and roy was on the porch with leigh just feelin’ love down to his toes
and they was swingin!
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:36 pmWe could imagine things. When Roy Moore called her home, he pretended to be a teacher.
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:38 pm97. Her father wasn’t there because her mother was divorced because her mother was in court on a child custody matter.
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:39 pmIt sure as shit wasn’t the DA because he said the people he wants prosecuted are people who are calling themselves victims.
Bullshit and a lie. The women calling themselves victims 40 years later have zero obligation under these laws. This is total horseshit you are deceptively making up to obscure the issue.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:42 pmLord, I hate the Republican party. It may not be worth much, but at least Saint Peter won’t be able to say I voted for McCain and Romney.
At least someone like Obama is somewhat what he pretends to be: an urbane, modern, big-city loving, progressive. So he opposes those of us clinging to old things like the Bill of Rights. The Republican establishment hates nationalists, populists, non-big-money conservatives, and most definitely those of us who think the past was better than today in many ways. All they want to do is feed us BS about gay marriage, flag burning, and Obamacare, while you know they need to keep the children locked away in DC on the Republican side even more than the Democratic one.
Donaldo (95053d) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:44 pm96. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:35 pm
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/11/us/roy-moore-alabama-senate.html?_r=0
RELATED COVERAGE
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:46 pmRepublicans
Paula Cobia, I think, just promoted him to District attorney.
How did he defame Gloria Thacker Deason?
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:49 pmGloria’s the Mateus Rosé one
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:49 pmthat’s her whole thing is she was 18 and went on a date with Roy she says and they had a glass of Mateus Rosé but the legal drinking age was actually 19 and she went into a downward spiral or something
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:51 pmIt’s like a Taylor swift song gone horribly wrong (Yes I know she’s from nashville)
narciso (d1f714) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:58 pmhah yes yes
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:59 pmseriously though i can’t believe the Mateus Rosé chick lawyered up
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 8:05 pmand in the 80s?
and in the 90s?
and in the 00s?
and for the last 7 years?
Paula you’re stupid.
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 8:08 pmI thought it was Paula Cole from the Dawson creek soundtrack.
narciso (d1f714) — 11/11/2017 @ 8:10 pmi liked her one on the City of Angels soundtrack
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 8:11 pmhere
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/11/2017 @ 8:12 pmFrom as they say, combined dispatches, this is what Roy Moore has said:
He “doesn’t remember dating any girl without the permission of her mother” but yes, “he dated a lot of young ladies” when he got out of the military though “not generally” 16 or 17 year olds. (or maybe that “not generally” refers to teenagers.
Dating a woman in her late teens “would’ve been out of…my customary behavior.”
“Allegations of sexual misconduct with [Leigh Corfman] are completely false. I believe they are politically motivated. I believe they’re brought only to stop a very successful campaign, and that’s what they’re doing.”
“I’ve never talked to [Leigh Corfman] I’ve never had any contact with her.”
“I have never known this woman or anything.”
He knew several of the women (mentioned in the article?) but did not “remember going out on dates”
“This was 40 years ago, and after my return from the military I dated a lot of young ladies.”
He said he did not serve one of these women here wine because the alleged date would have been in a dry county.
“She said he believed she was underaged. As I recall, she was 19 or older. I never provided intoxicating liquor to a minor. I seem to remember her as a good girl.”
“I have never provided alcohol to minors, and I have never engaged in sexual misconduct.”
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/11/2017 @ 8:12 pmPoint 1. It is not clear to me exactly who or what behavior the Hon. State Douche Henry is suggesting criminal charges against/concerning. His reported statements are vague and ambiguous, and as is all too often the case in news reports (from outfits large and small alike; big-city and rural), the reporter apparently did not have the wits and/or spunk to ask the follow-up questions to clarify (or to expose an unwillingness for forthrightness/clarity by the quoted party).
Point 2. Frederick, who are the potential defendants for such prosecutions under your “mandatory reporting violation” theory-of-the-case? And why/how precisely (how were they mandatory reporters due to their position and how due to their knowledge and/or suspicion; etc.)? What were the precise terms of the law in Alabama at any relevant time? Have any successful prosecutions been brought under the Alabama MR statutes ever, and if so, under what circumstances (speak to the egregiousness of the underlying “child abuse” itself and the egregiousness of the breach of duty of the MR on all relevant parameters)?
Point 3 What is the statute of limitations on the violation of the relevant MR statutes? Assuming, e.g., Ms. X was an MR who was legally obliged to have reported Conduct A back in 1982 (but w/o legal excuse did not do so), when did the statute run on her criminal failure to report? Don’t you suspect that all such potential offenses have been barred, like for decades, now? I certainly do.
Point 4.The Hon. Henry is no doubt a thug and likely intended his words to pose a general threat to other women coming forward. Myself, I suspect there are more than a few more true and damaging stories which could be told about Roy-Boy-Toy Moore from this period in his life. But Henry seems to be more bluster-and-confuse than anything else. And as I mentioned (in another thread, I think), if the Alabama Republicans really feel strongly that Roy’ll come out squeaky and that these accusing women are jonny-come-lately-lying-sluts, well, by all means, they should go ahead and immediately launch and conduct legislative hearings with witnesses and subpoenas and all, so to timely vindicate their man and to protect the electoral process. Hell, it would seem to be their duty, wouldn’t it? For both Alabama and for the commonweal of the Republic itself! Don’t hold your breath.
Q! (86710c) — 11/11/2017 @ 8:16 pmBut if someone, who was a mandatory reporter, says now that they suspected this at the time but didn’t say anything, then it would seem the law allows for it.
Frederick (53c627) — 11/11/2017 @ 6:45 pm
Like officers of the court? Like everyone who knew Roy Moore courted 14 year olds?
Pinandpuller (2e01d0) — 11/11/2017 @ 8:36 pmhttp://thehill.com/homenews/media/359956-advertisers-distance-themselves-from-hannity-after-moore-interview?amp
kishnevi (aef29b) — 11/11/2017 @ 8:43 pmThe gist of the matter is that this lady is now someone important for the first time in her life. Like Monica Lewinsky, and without having to buy zinc throat lozenges. And if this stuff manages to bring down Roy Moore, she too might get a book deal.
nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:12 pm
Or sell purses on QVC.
Pinandpuller (2e01d0) — 11/11/2017 @ 8:45 pmSo how did he get in touch with her without her mother knowing, being as she didn’t have her own phone number? (if that is correct)
Oh, there are all sorts of ways that could have happened, but it’s an important part of the story.
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:13 pm
In High School my folks and I and another family would go to Wendy’s after church, quite often. This other family’s daughter knew a girl who worked there. This girl wanted me to call her after school. I did successfully once.
I called again and her mom answered. She asked how old I was, I told her 17. She said I sounded a lot older. Don’t call back. So I didn’t.
Single mom was probably working a lot. I can’t imagine how ruined I would be if I had a smart phone back then.
Pinandpuller (2e01d0) — 11/11/2017 @ 8:51 pmWhat ever did happen to the studios like Disney and dreamworks that were in partnership with Einstein
narciso (d1f714) — 11/11/2017 @ 8:53 pmThis guy points out the blindingly obvious (hat tip: Allahpundit):
Dave (445e97) — 11/11/2017 @ 8:55 pm“James Wallner
harkin (a9a478) — 11/11/2017 @ 8:56 pm@jiwallner
·
13h
Replying to @Gaelan_Connell
Point is not to minimize allegations. It’s to push back against argument that allegations are disqualifying per se. That is dangerous to our democracy. Voters in Alabama get to disqualify when they cast their ballot, not others.”
seriously though i can’t believe the Mateus Rosé chick lawyered up
Smart move if she wants to protect her intellectual property rights to her story. She should get an agent or maybe two — one for the book rights and one for the movie and TV rights — and a publicist as well.
nk (dbc370) — 11/11/2017 @ 9:04 pmMaybe somebody else made it up for her. That would be more likely.
Sammy Finkelman (8b8667) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:17 pm
Tennessee Williams?
Did you know he choked to death on a medicine bottle cap? Sad! Who saw that coming?
Pinandpuller (2e01d0) — 11/11/2017 @ 9:04 pmWe could imagine things. When Roy Moore called her home, he pretended to be a teacher.
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:38 pm
If she gave him a dollar he could pretend to be her lawyer.
Pinandpuller (2e01d0) — 11/11/2017 @ 9:12 pm“He knows full well why these women did not tell what he did to them before this week,” the lawyer, Paula Cobia, said in an email. “As young teenage girls in the late 1970s, they had no way of knowing their rights
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/11/2017 @ 7:46 pm
You mean to tell me he patted them down before he read them their rights?
Pinandpuller (2e01d0) — 11/11/2017 @ 9:18 pmhttps://hotair.com/archives/2017/11/11/think-roy-moore-think-didnt-youre-wrong/
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/11/2017 @ 9:33 pmYes mediamatters had nothing to with that.
narciso (d1f714) — 11/11/2017 @ 9:56 pmNarciso @127: Who mentioned Media Matters where? Or didn’t mention it where they should have?
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/11/2017 @ 10:06 pmAbout Moore being a district attorney. This is what Wikipedia says (and I assume – and this also could be checked – this part was not added the last few days
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Moore
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/11/2017 @ 10:11 pmSo the ovErlap was indeed slight
http://www.montgomeryadvertiser.com/story/news/politics/southunionstreet/2017/09/21/life-wartime-roy-moore-fights-battles-and-often-goes-looking-them/678577001
narciso (d1f714) — 11/11/2017 @ 10:24 pmSo to recap: Contrary to what lawyer Paula Cobia said, unless she’s using very imprecise language, he never was district attorney, although he lost a race for that position in 1986. He was, per Wikipedia, a full-time prosecutor, and the first one there ever was in that county.
Sometime around 1981 or 1982 he started an investigation, and was then himself investigated for doing the investigation! Both inquiries went nowhere, but shortly after the investigation of him for investigating was dropped he quit to run for Circuit-court judge on an anti-corruption platform.
He made the runoff, but lost it to someone he later described as an honorable man.
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/11/2017 @ 10:27 pm130. So assistant district attorney. And a very bitter political campaign in 1982.
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/11/2017 @ 10:31 pm@130 So the ovErlap was indeed slight
Don’t know what you mean by “slight”, precisely, and I expect you don’t either. Moreover, the “office overlap question” seems rather less material than the “Gadsen overlap question”.
See the other thread, thar and yonder.
Q! (86710c) — 11/11/2017 @ 11:04 pmHow is this hard? The claim made by Henry was asinine. The only thing that this, and other similar claims about others tells me is that it is IMPOSSIBLE to defend against charges of this sort after 40 years.
Consider Moore, or Takei. If this were someone making a charge about what happened last Saturday, they could have some way of proving an alibi, or have other witnesses or otherwise mount a defense. After 40 years all you have is: Who do I believe?
And it’s worse than that because people change. That event 40 years ago might not represent the person today in any shape or form. As someone who has utterly transformed his own life in less time, I grieve a bit when people attack a person for ancient indiscretions.
There is a reason we don’t prosecute folks for ancient crimes.
Kevin M (752a26) — 11/12/2017 @ 12:17 amInnocent until proven guilty is for criminal convictions, not elections, Mr. M.
Grand wizard Mitt Romney has been very clear about this.
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/12/2017 @ 12:22 amThere is a reason we don’t prosecute folks for ancient crimes.
Take that up with the family of the late Arthur Rudolph.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/12/2017 @ 12:46 amNitwit Torquemadas as far as the eye can see… 💩
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/12/2017 @ 12:59 amThe Washington Post had a different kind of attack against Roy Moore a month ago:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/undisclosed-deal-guaranteed-roy-moore-180000-a-year-for-part-time-work-at-charity/2017/10/11/5f56679e-a9de-11e7-850e-2bdd1236be5d_story.html
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/12/2017 @ 9:36 am**Not Confirmed in the LA Times**
As the accuser’s story is subject to actual examination it’s looking a bit shakey. It’s being revealed that a WaPo reporter (named Beth) was actively beating the Alabama bushes and willing to pay $1000s for someone to level sexual accusations against Roy Moore.
A picture of Beth and recordings of phone comversations are said to have been turned over to the local DA.
ropelight (3dc687) — 11/12/2017 @ 10:08 amAlibi for when, and besides Moore was deeply involved in religious activities going back to his west point days as his life long nemesis Lucian truscott vi points out in the Montgomery paper
narciso (f848af) — 11/12/2017 @ 10:17 amI have a severe issue here.
No matter what, Moore can’t prove this didn’t happen. There’s just no way.
Barring physical evidence, the story cannot be proved true.
I hate this story.
Dianna (c1b8e5) — 11/12/2017 @ 10:27 amThat’s why it was printed Dianna, precisely because it is unverifiable.
narciso (f848af) — 11/12/2017 @ 10:34 amYep, narisco.
It’s bringing out the worst in everyone, too. Including me. I’m afraid my initial reaction was horrified outrage. Then I started actually thinking about proof…. Then I had to ask why I started off by believing it.
Ugh. Awful, and I’m not happy with myself.
Dianna (c1b8e5) — 11/12/2017 @ 10:56 amA typical Democrat tactic and smear and those who fall for it should feel shame and embarrassment. But teh willfully gullible don’t embarrass easy.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 11/12/2017 @ 11:00 amnevertrump’s go to move is to cast someone as a victim then exploit that person and it’s usually women
they’re stunted that way
they did it to Ted Cruz’s wife to where that wretched woman will be defined by a whimsical re-tweet for the rest of her life
they did it on Michelle Fields to where that poor little thing is more or less unemployable anymore
they did it on that nasty gold star widow who imploded like a poltergeist house once they put her on tv and people got an unfiltered sense of her character
same with the obnoxious and hateful mayor of san juan with her tacky titty tees
and now they’re exploiting some random-ass honey boo boos
this is just how they roll
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/12/2017 @ 11:20 amIt really ticks in my craw, but this was rightly denounced against Cruz which probably came from Paul singer what Jon Meacham allowed with Joe mcguinness against the huntress.
narciso (d1f714) — 11/12/2017 @ 11:40 amGlenn Simpson was party to this
narciso (d1f714) — 11/12/2017 @ 11:44 amhttps://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/bracewell-wins-dismissal-for-dr-alexander-mirtchev-and-krull-corporation-300123294.html
The Republican and Democratic parties are terrorist, pedophilic cults. Anyone who supports these parties is a traitor and enemy of the people of this country. Republicans and Democrats are worthless, subhuman garbage. And it is long past time for the people to take the trash out.
mama (3b68d8) — 11/12/2017 @ 12:05 pm“It’s being revealed” — you mean by the liar on Twitter whose account of his military history has him joining the Navy at age 5 and who can’t remember whether he has three or four Purple Hearts?
LOL that might explain the lack of a link in your comment.
We hate hearsay also here’s some bullshit hearsay wut sez them tramps is bein BRIBED
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/12/2017 @ 12:40 pmI’ll say it again:
Flip the parties in the late 1990s and make it a Republican president who got his knob polished in the Oval Office, threatened witnesses over it, and lied about it under oath,
The crowd here would joyfully smear Monica Lewinsky.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/12/2017 @ 12:43 pmSomething not discussed in any of the issues surrounding the Henry/Moore saga is the fact that the Alabama GOP is currently at war with itself, and has been for some time over a corruption investigation at the Alabama State House. The FBI was involved for a long period of time, and there have been rumors for a few years that the FBI had wiretaps on various Alabama state politicians where various matters of graft and corruption were dismissed.
The State AG — Luther Strange — who lost the GOP primary to Roy Moore, indicted the Speaker of the Alabama House. That set the two sides of the GOP against each other — the more mainstream GOP establishment, and the populist/fundamentalist/religious wing of the party.
Henry and Moore are members of the latter group, which was the first group to swing heavily towards Trump. Henry was previously campaign chair for Huckabee in Alabama in 2008, before running for office for the first time in 2010.
Henry has charged that Luther Strange was appointed to Sessions’ Senate seat to avoid being impeached from his position as AG over his handling of the indictment of House Speaker Mike Hubbard.
So, from Henry’s perspective, this is just as likely a plot against Moore and his wing of the GOP by the more mainstream GOP establishment as it is from Democrats. Moore has denied the incident, and Henry has chosen to believe Moore’s denials.
Henry has a front row seat to the political machinations of Alabama GOP politics, and I can’t say he’s entirely wrong to see the outline of a dirty trick by the GOP establishment on Moore. This could have nothing to do with which party controls the seat in the Senate, but everything to do with which wing of the GOP controls the party in Alabama.
shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 11/12/2017 @ 12:47 pmMonica had a blue dress
the honey boo boos don’t got nothing
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/12/2017 @ 12:49 pmAs for his statement that the women should be prosecuted, I would only note that he’s not a lawyer. His undergraduate degree is in radiological sciences, and his career seems to have been in politics for many years.
shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 11/12/2017 @ 12:50 pmropelight,
One of the reporters of the original Washington Post story about Moore is Beth Reinhard. Is that who you are talking about in your comment 139? Can you provide a link for what you said?
DRJ (15874d) — 11/12/2017 @ 12:55 pmForgot to add — I first learned of the stuff in the Alabama state house while still an AUSA. I was at a conference with others, including a couple from Alabama. This was in the same time frame as the recruiting violation controversy over Cam Newton, who played for Auburn and won the National Championship. There were allegations that Newton’s father had been given $200,000 by Auburn boosters to convince him to sign with Auburn rather than Alabama to play football.
The AUSAs from Alabama were talking about RUMORS that there were FBI wiretaps where lawmakers were talking about funneling money to Auburn or Alabama boosters so that the money could be given to Newton’s family in a bid to entice him to attend one school or the other.
It was out of those conversations that the AUSAs from Alabama explained how tribal politics was at the State level — and it had nothing to do with party. It had to do with whether the Pol in question was an Auburn grad or a Bama grad. Which school you went to dominated civic life for lawmakers, and in some ways was the trigger or flashpoint for one group going after another group, with power shifting back and forth between the two.
shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 11/12/2017 @ 12:56 pmThanks for sharing this. It sounds like the national GOP.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/12/2017 @ 12:59 pmWe have some of that in Texas, chiefly with Aggies and Longhorns but also other schools in recent years.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/12/2017 @ 1:10 pm157 — yep, very similar, but in a much smaller state and where the rival factions live right on top of each other.
shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 11/12/2017 @ 1:17 pmThe individual pushing the “Beth” story has provided no evidence for his claim. Rather it sounds like a game of telephone:
However, that isn’t stopping Gateway Pundit and Alex Jones…
Dana (023079) — 11/12/2017 @ 1:19 pmEven speaking as a liberal Democrat, this isn’t a scandal that should be partisan.
We’ve seen predatory behavior in Hollywood, every political party, in universities, churches, sports organizations, governments, and corporations.
The solution isn’t to fixate on whose team is going to get the trophy this time, its to confront how our society is going to ensure that everyone is treated with dignity and respect.
Chip Daniels (fc0400) — 11/12/2017 @ 1:20 pmyour party lost all credibility when it turned Bill Clinton’s rapey herpes penis into a sacred relic
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/12/2017 @ 1:25 pm141. Dianna (c1b8e5) — 11/12/2017 @ 10:27 am
Actually, there might be a way.
It could be proven how this was made up, for instance. A good line of investigation is how the Washington Post got this story. Moore should be very careful about being misinformed and lied to here, though.
And it could be proven false by contradictions and impossibilities, although you have to be wary of just the details being wrong. A story could be mostly true, but have details wrong.
One place where Leigh Corfdon might get caught up on a contradiction is about how he contacted her without her mother knowing about it. Adding details and answering ancillary questions could trip up the whole story. Like in Colombo.
And I have an example of how a story was proven false:
It was pretty clearly proven in 1991 that Anita Hill was lying because 1) She claimed that, while she was working for Clarence Thomas, she was trying to avoid Clarence Thomas, and her co-workers said that was not so, and, if anything, she wanted to see him more 2) Her explanation for why she followed Clarence Thomas from one job to the other was that at that time they were talking of abolishing the Department of Education, but that would not have cost her her job because she had civil service protection and abolishing the Department of Education would not mean ending its activities and when Senator Arlen Specter repeatedly asked her about how could fear that given that she had civil service protection, she had no answer.
How terrible Ronald Reagan and the Republicans were abolishing the Department of Education had been political nonsense in the early 1980s.
You mean DNA? But there is no claim that any should ever have existed.
This is supposedly proven true by 1) similar stories told by other women, except they are not similar stories, neither with regard to age, nor with regard to conduct while out on a date. 2) People she allegedly told from time to time. That could be disproven if it was discovered that any or all of these witnesses were lying.
We have a teenage friend of hers, who claims that Leigh told her the name of the person who got into his underwear, but she didn’t recognize the name (even when television ads both for and against him began running in 1982?) Now it would nice for her to elaborate on that. Like three years later she knew who it was. Was t discussed again between them?
Another person is a man Leigh was involved with for about two years in 2009.
3) also you have people whom she should have told but perhaps didn’t, like if she had a therapist)
I think there are ways of doing this, if people will waive privacy considerations, but what I really don’t like is this pushto hyperfast condemnation.
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/12/2017 @ 1:29 pmI don’t think the Washington Post would do that kind of opposition research, and certain;y not contact people at random.
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/12/2017 @ 1:31 pmJust flip the parties between Moore and Menendez.
Sammy Finkelman (8e756e) — 11/12/2017 @ 1:31 pmwhat I really don’t like is this push to hyperfast condemnation
it’s the exact same as how they did with Evan McMullin’s no-platforming campaign against Milo
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/12/2017 @ 1:41 pmyes yes if people falsely accuse people of sexual misconduct that should be illegal i think because it’s corrosive to the fabric of a trust society when you do lies on people, expecially if you get to do it with impunity
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/12/2017 @ 2:34 pmThey’ve done a pretty good job of documenting people whom she told over the years, and corroborating it with similar approaches to young girls. I believe it, and I’m not unhappy with myself for believing it. I recognize that I could be wrong, but it seems pretty credible and bulletproof as such stories go. As Andrew C. McCarthy says:
That’s pretty much where I’m at.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/12/2017 @ 2:39 pm167 — I’m leaning there too. Story is pretty sound IMO, and I don’t see actual evidence of a dirty trick. But I can’t dismiss out of hand the possibility that Henry is right.
shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 11/12/2017 @ 3:35 pmMe, too, for the reasons stated above. In addition, victims are reluctant to come forward when claims involve a high-profile person like a state official/judge. Each one thinks they are the only one and nobody will believe them. Knowing that it happened to others helps them decide they can finally come forward.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/12/2017 @ 3:48 pmThe Worm is turning..
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 11/12/2017 @ 3:53 pmBut I admit that part of me doesn’t care because Moore isn’t that different from Trump. I don’t like or trust either of them but values don’t matter now.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/12/2017 @ 3:54 pmNotwithstanding my view, I think there will be quite a surprise on election day when Moore wins this seat handily.
What this episode has done is that its created a “Trump” effect with regard to polling. Bama GOP voters might tell pollsters they are less likely to vote for Moore now. But they are not going to vote for the Dem. candidate who happily accepted the endorsement of Planned Parenthood.
So every vacillating Moore voter is not a potential Dem vote.
And I think there are probably a lot of likely Moore votes who aren’t being honest with pollsters about their intentions, putting themselves in the undecided category when that’s not really the case.
But most significantly, in a race that the GOP normally wins by 20, and turnout isn’t a big issue, this kind of seeming-dirty trick might just drive GOP turnout — especially among Moore supporters who might have otherwise stayed home confident that he would win comfortably without them. THey are going to flock to the polls now.
shipwreckedcrew (56b591) — 11/12/2017 @ 4:26 pmOh, Moore will win alright:
Dana (023079) — 11/12/2017 @ 4:44 pmFrom Blackstone to Ben Franklin it has often been said it’s better for 10/100 guilty persons to escape than for a single innocent person to be punished.
Hysterical ninnies rush to judgment based on an emotional response to unsubstantiated accusations, then spin like a dervish trying to rationalize lynch mob mentality.
Is there still room in our jurisprudence for ‘considered innocent till proven guilty? Or, has the bedrock principle of our legal system become one of those outdated concepts no longer relevant to a ‘living’ code of laws?
ropelight (3dc687) — 11/12/2017 @ 4:56 pmThis isn’t about criminal charges. It’s the court of public opinion and the rules are different.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/12/2017 @ 5:04 pmThis is an election not a criminal trial. Even in civil trials the standard is merely a preponderance of the evidence, and as of now the evidence preponderates against Moore.
But the people who will judge this are the voters of Alabama, and right now a large group of them will cheerfully vote for a man whose political ideas boil down to religious authoritarianism.
kishnevi (80558c) — 11/12/2017 @ 5:04 pm@93. Coming apart like a 4 lb., chicken in a crockpot for 8 hours.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/12/2017 @ 5:09 pmSpeaking off:
https://mobile.twitter.com/neontaster/status/929735860806914048
narciso (d1f714) — 11/12/2017 @ 5:18 pmThis isn’t about criminal charges. It’s the court of public opinion and the rules are different.
DRJ (15874d) — 11/12/2017 @ 5:04 pm
Then a certain amount of impeaching the witnesses is fair.
Pinandpuller (16b0b5) — 11/12/2017 @ 5:41 pmi’ll say
happyfeet (28a91b) — 11/12/2017 @ 5:46 pmIt may not be a criminal trial, but the underlying concept is an enduring tribute to justice itself. There is no place in American life for ‘guilt by accusation.’
That’s one of the hallmarks of the facist state: guilty till proven innocent.
ropelight (3dc687) — 11/12/2017 @ 6:18 pm