Christian Leaders Pray For President Trump
[guest post by Dana]
Last week, a photo of President Trump being prayed for by evangelical leaders and Vice President Pence made the rounds.
In a Facebook post, Pastor Rodney Howard-Browne, who was part of the prayer group, shared this:
Yesterday was very surreal for @ahowardbrowne & I. 30 years ago we came from South Africa to America as missionaries. Yesterday I was asked by Pastor Paula White-Cain to pray over our 45th President – what a humbling moment standing in the Oval Office – laying hands and praying for our President – Supernatural Wisdom, Guidance and Protection – who could ever even imagine – wow – we are going to see another great spiritual awakening…
Howard-Browne further clarified that what took place “was normal, what a lot of us pray when we pray for elected officials. It was like a meeting of friends.”
When I first saw the photo, I reacted with cynicism: Evangelicals. Pfft. Trump. Pfft. All sorts of nuttery rolled into one photo. But then I thought about it. Say what you will about evangelicals, President Trump, and prayer, but I don’t know why anyone would object to prayers going up for a president. Particularly this one. While only God can say if these were the prayers of righteous men, I think it’s a positive thing when anyone, anywhere asks God to grant Trump wisdom. How could it not be?
Anyway, as a reminder, Trump’s claims of Christianity have been questionable and conveniently timed, in light of an impending election. Consider when asked about seeking God’s forgiveness in this life, then-candidate Trump said,
“I have great relationship with God. I have great relationship with the Evangelicals,” Trump said in the interview before pivoting to his poll numbers among Evangelical voters.
“I like to be good. I don’t like to have to ask for forgiveness. And I am good. I don’t do a lot of things that are bad. I try to do nothing that is bad.”
…
Trump told Republican pollster and focus-group guru Frank Luntz that when the real-estate mogul has done something wrong, he tries to correct his error without getting God involved.
“I am not sure I have,” Trump said when asked if he’d ever asked God for forgiveness. “I just go on and try to do a better job from there. I don’t think so,” he said. “I think if I do something wrong, I think, I just try and make it right. I don’t bring God into that picture. I don’t.”
To me, his comments revealed an individual completely unfamiliar with the Christian faith, mankind’s fall from grace, and the personal relationship between the believer and God. And yet, he somehow managed to con(vince) any number of leaders in the Christian church that he was the real deal.
But to answer the question of whether anyone objected to the president being prayed for, it appears they did. The Washington Post dug up a pretty dumb example from a supposed Christian, because why choose a robust and challenging objection intelligently articulated by a solid Christian when you can instead choose a dumb one because every cosmopolitan knows that Christians = dumb:
The White Wing Evangelical Christians visit the White House, laying hands on Trump. Now Trump thinks he’s Jesus. Sacrilegious.
They also included the objections of a well known Protestant pastor. This in spite of his rank hypocrisy. Consider the Rev. William Barber II, who serves as North Carolina’s NAACP chair and the leader of the protest group, Moral Mondays, which protests against President Trump’s policies:
On MSNBC’s “AM Joy” Saturday morning, Barber called the now-viral photo “theological malpractice bordering on heresy.”
“When you can p-r-a-y for a president and others while they are p-r-e-y, preying on the most vulnerable, you’re violating the most sacred principles of religion,” Barber told host Joy Reid.
Barber considers Trump (and Republicans) hypocrites, because their views and policies are not representative of Jesus’s words about how people are to treat “the least of these.”
When we have this extremist Trump Republican agenda that takes health care, transfers wealth to the greedy, that’s hypocrisy and sin. Seven hundred billion dollars, Joy? You haven’t seen that kind of transfer of wealth on the backs of bodies of people since slavery. Claiming to care about life, but then passing a bill when you know thousands will die — 22 million people, poor, working people will be hurt — that is hypocrisy and sin. When you know it will hurt children, the disabled and veterans, that is sin. That is hypocrisy.
Further, he accused Trump-Ryan-McConnell’s agenda as one of rank “hypocrisy and sin.”
Let me just cut to the chase: Rev. William Barber II exhorting Republicans and the president about Jesus’s commands on how to treat the most vulnerable among us is the same Rev. William Barber II who stood in solidarity with Planned Parenthood to protect the rights of women to have an abortion. This says all anyone needs to know about how much he really cares about who lives and dies and the most vulnerable among us.
These “Christians”. As a believer (albeit one who no longer attends church and has no intention of taking up the practice again), this is really frustrating. The hypocrisy of Trump, the hypocrisy of Barber, the seedy efforts of church leaders to convince voters that Trump was someone that he really wasn’t brought to mind a question that filmmaker Ken Burns asked during a recent interview. And it’s one that I’ve been chewing over. (Yes, I’m talking about that Ken Burns. The one about whom we can say much regarding his politics, historical views, etc., but this post isn’t about that.) He has simply articulated a compelling question, and one that I wish I could answer. But I can’t.
“The Republican Party has been extraordinarily successful at getting many groups of people to vote against their self-interest. Evangelicals are voting for Donald Trump. What part of Donald Trump reminds you of Jesus Christ? Trump lusts after his own daughter on national radio, talks about women’s bodies and breasts in such a disparaging way, and mocks them. How is this in any way Christian? When you make the “other” the enemy, how is that Christian?”
(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)
–Dana
Hello.
Dana (023079) — 7/19/2017 @ 9:53 pmIs that… dandruff?
America, take note:
“Live flake free.” – ad tag line Head & Shoulders shampoo
DCSCA (797bc0) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:01 pmPeople vote for those they like. It’s impulsive, imperfect and served Donald Trump (and Obama, Clinton, Reagan, JFK) very well against an opponent who wasn’t as likeable.
Voting blocs vote much more precisely based on interests. They’re well organised, active and care about political results rather than any soft measure of shared values.
In a hypothetical race between Ted Cruz or Rick Santorum, Trump would have lost this bloc in a landslide. Against a social liberal backed by diametrically opposed voting blocs who else were they going to vote for? Trump did more than enough to stop them from staying at home, but the idea that they somehow buy his crap about being a conservative or a Christian insults their intelligence and misunderstands the US political system.
Bob (277092) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:01 pmAnd the Democrats wonder why their brand isn’t selling. Objecting to pastors praying over a President! Oy vey!
At my church, we pray for the President every Sunday:
nk (dbc370) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:10 pmPresident Trump is comfortable with all kinds of people and he just loves being in the moment
Trump greets Egyptian-American woman after working behind the scenes to free her
look at that picture and tell me he’s not wholly embracing that moment
then go back and look at some president food stamp pics
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:12 pmThat is an easy question to answer, for me; the sight of any sinner, from the least to the greatest, reminds me, first and foremost, of Gods love for us sinners. He sent His only Son to Die for our sins. To pay the price of all our sins past, present and future.
When I see a sinner, I see myself, and that remimds me of my need for mercy and forgiveness. If Ken Burns cannot see this, as it may be, then his question reveals more about the state of soul more than it says about Trump’s soul.
felipe (023cc9) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:19 pmReally not an appropriate time for this article Dana. The last article on McCain was only recently posted and people are being admonished for saying ill of the man who is suffering. To allow an outlet to bash the President for those who say it is wrong to criticize McCain is rather hypocritical.
NJRob (7f4bec) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:20 pmI left out a word:
…then his question reveals more about the state of [his] soul more than it says about Trump’s soul.
felipe (023cc9) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:25 pmIn other news
https://mobile.twitter.com/thomasjoscelyn/status/887741732875624448
narciso (d1f714) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:30 pmI see your point, NJRob, and it is unfortunate that this is the case for a few commenters, but I welcome any post that touches upon Christian witness.
felipe (023cc9) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:33 pmNJ Rob,
I don’t believe it is hypocritical at all because they are two different posts entIrely. McCain is very likely going to die of brain cancer. Trump is not facing death from the presidency. In one post, an aged American hero is dealt some pretty bad news. In this post, a sincere question is being asked about how a voting bloc went fairly all-in for a man that does not represent the values and ideals upon which they stand.
Further, with regard to the time of publication: I have to leave very early tomorrow morning, and as such, won’t have time to get this up before I leave. It’s a practical matter.
Dana (023079) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:33 pmInteresting max Blumenthal
narciso (d1f714) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:33 pm, so of sid, did not regard his experience on tuckers show as enjoyable.
I would also add, that personally, I make it a rule to be respectful toward any serious illness. No matter who it is, no matter their politics or how much I may dislike what they stand for, we’re all just trying make it through as best we can. Life is hard enough without cancer being involved. And it costs me nothing to be gracious.
Dana (023079) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:38 pmMake it a *practice* is more accurate.
Dana (023079) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:40 pmHe was diagnosed at practically the same age as kennedy.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:42 pmit’s not good (is it good?), to define “American hero” down in this way
it portends a downward spiral
and i will not be complicit
to whom was this man a hero exactly?
Lindsey Graham?
Jeff Flake?
Sarah Palin?
and then let us ask to whom was this man NOT a hero
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:42 pmMaybe someone you tie your arms and practically rear them out of their sockets, this is what iS standard practice at la cabana and rancho boyeros, admiral stockdale was a,little hard of hearing, as demnis miller pointed out because they busted his eardrum
narciso (d1f714) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:50 pmThe difference McCain couldn’t appreciate was aq operated without uniforms or a,designated flag.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:52 pm“And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.” – Matthew 19:24
Dave (711345) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:53 pmYes no longer a fan
http://babalublog.com/2017/07/19/colombias-santos-looks-to-strengthen-ties-with-cubas-corrupt-terror-sponsoring-dictatorship/
narciso (d1f714) — 7/19/2017 @ 10:56 pmHow about praying for common sense government while we’re at it?
Remember the ridicule from some for CA citizens fixing potholes instead of waiting for government to get around to it?
Keep chirping, its spread to Canada:
“A Toronto man who spent $550 building a set of stairs in his community park says he has no regrets, despite the city’s insistence that he should have waited for a $65,000 city project to handle the problem. The city is now threatening to tear down the stairs because they were not built to regulation standards.
Retired mechanic Adi Astl says he took it upon himself to build the stairs after several neighbours fell down the steep path to a community garden in Tom Riley Park, in Etobicoke, Ont. Astl says his neighbours chipped in on the project, which only ended up costing $550 – a far cry from the $65,000-$150,000 price tag the city had estimated for the job.
A Toronto man who spent $550 building a set of stairs in his community park says he has no regrets, despite the city’s insistence that he should have waited for a $65,000 city project to handle the problem. The city is now threatening to tear down the stairs because they were not built to regulation standards.
Retired mechanic Adi Astl says he took it upon himself to build the stairs after several neighbours fell down the steep path to a community garden in Tom Riley Park, in Etobicoke, Ont. Astl says his neighbours chipped in on the project, which only ended up costing $550 – a far cry from the $65,000-$150,000 price tag the city had estimated for the job.
“I thought they were talking about an escalator,” Astl told CTV News Channel on Wednesday.
Astl says he hired a homeless person to help him and built the eight steps in a matter of hours.
Astl’s wife, Gail Rutherford, says the stairs have already been a big help to people who routinely take that route through the park. “I’ve seen so many people fall over that rocky path that was there to begin with,” she said. “It’s a huge improvement over what was there.”
Astl says members of his gardening group have been thanking him for taking care of the project, especially after one of them broke her wrist falling down the slope last year.
“To me, the safety of people is more important than money,” Astl said. “So if the city is not willing to do it, I have to do it myself.””
http://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/toronto-man-builds-park-stairs-for-550-irking-city-after-65-000-estimate-1.3510237
harkin (536957) — 7/19/2017 @ 11:35 pmThis says all anyone needs to know about how much he really cares about who lives and dies and the most vulnerable among us.
I am sure he would counter that fetuses aren’t “among us” until they are born. Really. He would.
Kevin M (752a26) — 7/19/2017 @ 11:50 pmI’m still trying to figure out why the Jesus of the progressives did not heal all of the sick, feed all of the hungry, free all of the captives. He had all the power and riches of all of the heavens at his disposal and Jesus only gave away less than .000000000000000000000000000000000001% of it
steveg (c6e6c8) — 7/20/2017 @ 1:25 amWith deep respect, it’s a nothingburger question. It’s a variation of the consistency ethic argument that Cuomo famously foisted upon us at Notre Dame. The Left forever demands purity on our side. Stupidly, we fall for it. A perfect example being Sessions’ Russian recusal.
If a Christian chooses to participate in the governance of her country, she necessarily must deal with sinners.
For Evangelicals, this was as easy a choice on principle as they have had. HRC demonstrated that she would attack the rights of all Christians. She guaranteed more access to abortion and a SCOTUS which would most definitely destroy any hope of a government informed by a reliance on a Creator.
DJT, for all his myriad faults, spoke forcefully about restoring religious rights already eroded. His answer to the “gotcha” abortion question in the debate crystallized everything in a remarkable fashion.
Of course, all of our voted are subject to the integrity of the given candidate. So far, DJT has largely delivered in the area of religious rights.
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 7/20/2017 @ 1:37 amKen Burns? Seriously? Try this as an answer: Matthew 7:1-5
No clue if Trump is actually a Christian or not, but Pence sure seems to be and that’s the reason I’m willing to give Trump the benefit of the doubt.
Dana, I sincerely love your posts. If you consider yourself a believer, that’s even better. But if you’re not going to church regularly, you’re missing out on real fellowship, accountability and knowledge that all christians need. Without all that the reason you can’t answer Burns question might be because you’re not qualified. I’m not sure I’m qualified either honestly, but it’s hard for me to even take the question seriously considering the source.
Dealing with our country’s current state of affairs and Trump especially is a lot like dealing with an ungodly church. You either help to fix it or you find a new one. Praying for Trump and everyone else in DC is the right thing to do and I will do it as well. In the mean time I’ll be trying to pull the log from my eyes.
ay (7b1435) — 7/20/2017 @ 5:26 amAlmost everyone here, myself included, has harshly disagreed with Senator Mccain, but right now we recognize his accomplishments and feel it’s not necessary to be nasty about him. The Trump fan interpretation in the other thread was that we were just defending Mccain because we like him so much (which reminds me of the bizarre way Trump fans used to insist every Trump critic loved Jeb Bush, with no apparent basis).
It was tacky to see Trump’s fans pile ugliness on Mccain yesterday because Mccain is terminally ill. Trump is not terminally ill, nor are these criticisms remotely as ugly, so there is no hypocrisy. And you know this. You’re muddying the waters of discourse, not intending to communicate or convince anyone, but rather just hoping to attack Trump critics over and over and over.
And yeah, Dana’s post is great. Trump has argued against the basic facets of Christianity. He’s boasted about not asking for forgiveness. He boasts about groping women who are weaker than him, because he got away with it. He boasts that he abandoned his marriage vows and the mother of his kids for a ‘hot piece of ass’, this wife then complaining of violent abuse. None of us are without sin, and it’s not out place to judge Trump’s worthiness as a Christian, but Trump’s argument against Christianity is something reasonable people can discuss, particularly in context of televangelists laying hands on Trump.
The gospels describe Jesus’s reaction to those who abused religious authority, and that’s as good of a response as any.
Trump represents such a moral weakness of the GOP, such a failure of the conservative movement. Obama and George W Bush were clearly better people, better examples, and Bill Clinton not clearly a worse man.
Had this been preachers with Bill Clinton the Trump fans would not see any problem in criticism.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 7/20/2017 @ 6:00 amYou’re right it’s not our place to judge him, but he’s boasted about not ever asking for forgiveness. That’s no example and I’m not seeing the benefit in pretending we don’t know what this means.
You’re right. Trump needs prayer, not only because he shoulders tremendous responsibilities, many of which he is not attempting to satisfy, but also because he will one day be judged, and it would be good for him to make a change. The likelihood of that ever happening don’t change the value in trying.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 7/20/2017 @ 6:03 amAw, for crying out loud! Those people were clergymen. Maybe not my denomination, but still pastors. They pray for serial killers about to be executed. It’s what they do. Pray.
And the day I give a sh!t what some Hollywood degenerate has to say about religion, prayer, or anything else ….
nk (dbc370) — 7/20/2017 @ 6:16 am25 – Agree about Ken Burns.
The United States gave us the world’s two greatest documents of freedom but he considers the national park system America’s “best idea”.
harkin (536957) — 7/20/2017 @ 6:19 amMacho grande, interestingly behind the scenes trump is working very diligently on the situation in Venezuela with Marco rubio, which is mostly directed at people of color.
narciso (7a266b) — 7/20/2017 @ 6:20 amOf course he has to work around Santos a man I used to respect, who has turned into an enabler for Raul and Tommy boy maduro
narciso (7a266b) — 7/20/2017 @ 6:23 amBurns’ blast:“……….extraordinarily successful at getting many groups of people to vote against their self-interest.” is a hoot.
Is there a more apt descriptor for the Democratic Party and Black America??
Destruction of the black family unit which had been making gains till the Dems decided to put blacks on a vote-for-welfare plantation.
Higher rates of illiteracy, illegitamacy, unemployment, crime and drug use.
20 million aborted blacks at Planned Parenthood since Roe v Wade.
Encouraging young blacks to be ‘woke’ with racial grievances instead of learning skills to get jobs, raise children and reach individual excellence.
Get back to us Kenny after you’ve done a documentary on that racial dumpster fire. The Cloward-Piven, heroin and Moynihan episodes ought to be a hoot.
harkin (536957) — 7/20/2017 @ 7:03 amBoy Trump fans sure are obsessed with what’s wrong with blacks and jews, huh? They seem to see the world that way.
I guess David Duke was right to endorse the guy.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 7/20/2017 @ 7:22 amMatthew chapter 23. Pray for the hypocrites..
Ben burn (b3d5ab) — 7/20/2017 @ 7:27 amDana,
I still feel it was poor timing, but I accept your reasons.
If anyone sincerely needs our prayers it is the ungodly man who is trying to do right, but isn’t sure how. Trump has done more standing up for the rights of the godfearing in his 6 months than Obama did in 8 years.
Obama was an evil man.
NJRob (7f4bec) — 7/20/2017 @ 7:28 amHangs out with sinners.
Unpopular with the Teachers of Law.
Has his quotes taken out of context by supporters and detractors alike.
Known to drink wine on occasion.
Most of his success comes from his Father.
I’m sure other commentators can point out others that I’ve missed.
CayleyGraph (4db457) — 7/20/2017 @ 7:33 amTrump is a teetotaler. He has stated that he has never had an alcoholic drink, and according to one reporter who did an in-depth article on him (and not in a friendly way), does not even keep booze in his home for others.
nk (dbc370) — 7/20/2017 @ 7:51 amEvangelicals are voting for Trump because he is defending their rights to religious freedom, not because he is like Jesus Christ! And that is very much in their self-interest. So again, hatred makes these leftists kind of lose their mental faculties.
I saw one article that stated that this prayer session meant that Trump is failing miserably and the Christians are trying to save him. Oh Lord!
BTS I’m reading Rod Dreher’s memoir about how Dante affected his religious beliefs. Excellent!
https://www.amazon.com/Dante-Save-Your-Life-Life-Changing-ebook/dp/B00T0GIBTC/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
Patricia (5fc097) — 7/20/2017 @ 8:07 amExactly patricia, a flawed vehicle but still necessary
narciso (d1f714) — 7/20/2017 @ 8:11 amhttps://mobile.twitter.com/glcarlstrom/status/887895178782093312
Another example
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/07/charlie_gard_is_the_face_of_singlepayer.html
narciso (d1f714) — 7/20/2017 @ 8:13 amWell I agreed Trump does need that prayer.
What’s your favorite piece of major legislation Trump has managed to deliver? Oh that’s right, hasn’t managed to get that done yet, even once. He hasn’t even replaced most of the Obama administrators running his government. Hasn’t even bothered to appoint many of the replacements.
Trump’s major accomplishment: undoing Obama’s EOs, complaining about Obama making excessive EOs, and hypocritically signing a bunch of EOs. A lot of solo stuff then, just as predicted. Trump lacks the experience needed to lead our form of government, so he’s just… not doing it.
He’s tweeted around one thousand times so far in his presidency, has spent more than a month of his six months in office playing golf, and as far as I can tell, Trump is the best gift the GOP has ever given the democrats. At a price of no major legislation, and no real legacy.
Pray for him.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 7/20/2017 @ 8:44 amWhat does this even mean? Trump tweets a lot, but in his own personal defense. He’s in this for himself. And twitter isn’t leadership. A president builds a coalition of support, using his persuasive power and political capital, to get things done. Trump hasn’t even appointed his team yet. Obama’s guys are still running a lot of things.
This blind boot licking thing is creepy and cringey.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 7/20/2017 @ 8:47 amRight Dustin you chose a bearded Marxist over a naive perhaps too trusting Christian woman, how did that work out last time
narciso (d1f714) — 7/20/2017 @ 8:49 amyes yes we should pray for President Trump
he’s oft-beleaguered
those treacherous peons of lilliput come to mind
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/20/2017 @ 8:50 amAre you talking about that Christine O’Donnell? Still not over that one? How many years ago was that?
She was a weasel. Don’t you recall what a slimeball she was? Granted, she was a victim of that IRS thing, but I don’t think the way you do. Just because someone’s enemy is a bastard doesn’t mean they become some kind of saint.
I’ve never supported marxism and I doubt you’re remembering accurately.
Like I said, the boot licking for Trump is creepy. I just call them like I see them. Sometimes, both sides have serious problems, and I’m going to say so when I believe so. I owe your political party nothing. It’s on Trump to unify and lead and he’s failed to win me over. Something about bashing the family of Ted Cruz comes to mind. That’s on him.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 7/20/2017 @ 9:21 amHis worst enemy is that billionaire Hillary donor who praised the Tienanmen Square massacre and bragged about sexually assaulting women.
Dustin (ba94b2) — 7/20/2017 @ 9:22 amDevil’s advocate, how many casualties when the oligarch’s appropriated themselves the Soviet patrimony.
narciso (d1f714) — 7/20/2017 @ 9:29 ami still think the actual harms what can be attributed to our new president are paltry
what’s he done that’s been so contrary to the public interest?
I’m hard-pressed to think of anything.
People who abjure President Trump primarily do so on the basis of aesthetics I think.
Which, that in itself makes him rather wonderfully American (old testament America).
Because it tells you that he’s already quite iconic. A larger than life figure – people experience President Trump; they don’t merely become acquainted with him do they
happyfeet (28a91b) — 7/20/2017 @ 9:30 amI wish God would send a Tweet telling us which side he’s on. It would be a lot easier that way.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/20/2017 @ 9:55 amPeople who remind you of Christ don’t need your prayers . Res ipsa loquitor.
Bill Aaracino (5f4d2c) — 7/20/2017 @ 10:05 am“People who abjure President Trump primarily do so on the basis of aesthetics I think.”
Absolutely, and Gallup has the numbers.
This Gallup poll has it 65 to 16 style over substance among Trump critics.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/20/2017 @ 10:07 amThe Elite think they know what is best for everyone. This conceit is a distinguishing trait – it is at the core of every authoritarian world view. It is precisely what the huddled masses were yearning to escape.
ThOR (c9324e) — 7/20/2017 @ 10:19 amThOR,
I have some people I’ve grown up with who are liberal elitists and socialists because they believe the masses are too stupid to make the right decisions for themselves and must be told what to do.
Very disturbing outlook.
NJRob (7f4bec) — 7/20/2017 @ 10:21 am@ ay,
It’s too bad who asks the question matters more to you than what is being asked. God gave us brains to use, I think we should do so. Do you think that one’s political views preclude asking thought-provoking questions? If you read the post carefully, in no way do I extol Burns’s positions on matters of politics or history. He articulated a question that I was willing to think about. Are Christians suppose to cower away from a liberal’s question, or is the rule that Christians are not supposed to be critical of, or think critically about Trump?
Further, I don’t believe for a minute that there is any bar of qualification to be met to answer the question, or at least chew it over and posit an answer. How sad to think that there would be. You have a brain, you know how to critically think and analyze with the information and evidence before you. Also, to suggest on one hand, that there is some bar of qualification that must be met in order to come up with possible answers, while simulatneously not giving me the benefit of the doubt with my claim of being a believer and instead using the carefully worded “if you consider yourself a believer,” suggests to me that while you don’t believe me qualified to answer the question in the post, you believe yourself qualified to assess my spiritual state. That, along with your assesment of church attendance, reminds me of precisely why I am no longer involved in organized religion.
Thank you for taking the time to read the post and comment.
Dana (023079) — 7/20/2017 @ 5:40 pmI’ll take a stab at Burns’s question
Citation, please. Burns’s opinion of people’s self-interest may not be what they identify as their self-interest, and may not be accurate.
Nothing in particular. However, I can’t say I can think of any recent presidents who particularly called Christ to mind. The Bushes are, I believe, at heart decent men though flawed like the rest of us.
Trump lusts after his own daughter on national radio, talks about women’s bodies and breasts in such a disparaging way, and mocks them. How is this in any way Christian? When you make the “other” the enemy, how is that Christian?”
It’s not. I would note, though, that Burns’s question does not exist in a vacuum. If we’re to take his assertion that Christians should not support a candidate who is not sufficiently Christ-like, then who CAN they vote for? Who is the final arbiter of sufficent Christliness?
HIs question also ignores the reality on Election Day … there was not a Christ figure on the ballot. The choice was between Trump and Clinton. Third party candidates existed, but if you were in a swing state, you pretty much had to choose which of the two main candidates you would support.
I did not vote for Trump, I wrote-in. I did not believe he had the temperament and judgment to be.president, though I have prayed for him since the election. I spoke with several very strong believers, and there are a few recurring themes I heard:
I can vote for someone who MAY support Christians and their values as a matter of political necessity (Trump) or I can vote fo someone who will NOT support Christians and their values as a matter of conviction (Clinton).
I cannot vote for either.
I respect those who could not vote for either, and I respect those who took a “this is a ‘Caesar until Caesar’ thing, and some good MAY come of voting for Trump – NO good comes of voting for Clinton.
In repose to his final point, making the other is not Christian (nor is it terribly liberal, tolerant, nor progressive). However, while I’m sure Burns could dig up some example from online comments somewhere to back up this assertion, to what is it relevant? There are plenty of believers who pray for their progressive friends and families, and there’s a recent article that points out that progressives are more likely to end relationships over political issues than conservatives, so who’s REALLY setting “the other” up as “the enemy?”
At the end of the day, we should all of us be better than this. Pray for one another, pray for our leaders, do good for someone who needs it. Give others the benefit of the doubt. Be humble. Gently instruct, rather than lash out – I know how good that feels, but it accomplishes nothing. Even if they have it coming, no good comes of it.
The Ghost of George Parr (d97249) — 7/21/2017 @ 8:08 pm