French Presidential Election Marches Onward In Spite Of Hacking Claims
[guest post by Dana]
Apparently, we should now expect the disruption of democratic elections in the West:
Leading French presidential candidate Emmanuel Macron’s campaign said on Friday it had been the target of a “massive” computer hack that dumped its campaign emails online 1-1/2 days before voters choose between the centrist and his far-right rival, Marine Le Pen.
Macron, who is seen as the frontrunner in an election billed as the most important in France in decades, extended his lead over Le Pen in polls on Friday.
As much as 9 gigabytes of data were posted on a profile called EMLEAKS to Pastebin, a site that allows anonymous document sharing. It was not immediately clear who was responsible for posting the data or if any of it was genuine.
In a statement, Macron’s political movement En Marche! (Onwards!) confirmed that it had been hacked.
“The En Marche! Movement has been the victim of a massive and co-ordinated hack this evening which has given rise to the diffusion on social media of various internal information,” the statement said.
In spite of President Putin’s jaw-dropping denial, “It has never occurred to us to interfere in other countries internal affairs,” eyes are on Russia:
The French Election Committee has instructed voters to be responsible and not share the hacked materials. Perhaps the French citizenry take their election ethics so seriously that they will resist the urge to google the documents. But wouldn’t it be irresponsible for voters to not make every effort to be as fully informed as possible before casting their votes?
“On the eve of the most important election for our institutions, the commission calls on everyone present on internet sites and social networks, primarily the media, but also all citizens, to show responsibility and not to pass on this content, so as not to distort the sincerity of the ballot,” the French election commission said in a statement on Saturday.
And this is most interesting – Le Monde newspaper will not publish any leaked information until they deem it suitable:
“If these documents contain revelations, Le Monde will of course publish them after having investigated them, respecting our journalistic and ethical rules, and without allowing ourselves to be exploited by the publishing calendar of anonymous actors,” it said. As the #Macronleaks hashtag buzzed around social media on Friday night, Florian Philippot, deputy leader of Le Pen’s National Front party, tweeted “Will Macronleaks teach us something that investigative journalism has deliberately kept silent?”
Suggesting that journalists may have a favorite candidate and would work toward protecting that individual doesn’t really speak to any election ethics, does it? Of course, we wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if French voters discovered less than favorable details about France’s leading presidential candidate and his campaign staff, similar to how we did last year.
On a side note, and following Macron’s lead with his political movement, En Marche! (Onwards!), comes Hillary Clinton’s new anti-Trump political PAC, “Onward Together”. Mrs. Clinton is marching onward toward 2020. Whether for herself, or on behalf of Chelsea, who knows.
(Cross-posted at The Jury Talks Back.)
–Dana
The NYT reports on the election. Editor missing in action:
Dana (023079) — 5/6/2017 @ 4:37 pmIF they were obvious Photoshops of Le Pen in bed with a camel, they would have run them this morning above the fold.
Kevin M (25bbee) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:00 pmoh my goodness Max Boot’s even dumber than ivanka
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:02 pmToo late to make a difference. Except perhapss to put a finer point on what kind of crook the French are getting. Establishment crook, the ordinary type, presenting himself as “independent” for camouflage.
Hint – media doesn’t bury insider dirt for real independent candidates
papertiger (c8116c) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:02 pmI see that Max Boot in still in need of a mental health intervention.
Mike K (f469ea) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:07 pmLe Pen. Le Pew. One skunk’s as good as another.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:14 pmAnd one ignored the deep state intervention against both fillon and le pen, which otherwise might have put the former in the runoff.
Remind me again who sold the mistrial frigates to volodya?
narciso (89c110) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:17 pmThis is interesting:
Dana (023079) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:21 pmClinton, Obama and their agents still employed by Trump most likely have something to do with the French erection.
mg (31009b) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:31 pmOnward through the fog, pantsuit.
Yes McCain Feingold on steroids, btw did they resolve that double counted overseas vote.
narciso (89c110) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:32 pmI just posted this book review of Floyd Abram’s The Soul of the First Amendment: Why Freedom of Speech Matters. The last bit is relevant to this thread as we watch what’s happening in France right now:
Beldar (fa637a) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:34 pmI’m rooting for Macron (to the extent I give a sou). Not only because Angela Merkel is not our enemy and Putin is. Because I admire that he fulfiiled his teenage (he was 15) crush on his high school teacher by eventually marrying her.
nj (9651fb) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:39 pmThat should have been nk.
nk (9651fb) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:42 pmold lady teacher sex is le disgusting i think especially socialist old lady teacher sex but i think france will elect the weaker more cowardly-seeming of the two
so nasty old lady teacher sex it is
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:45 pmAnd they are going to fight volodya, tell me another one are they closer to the 2% threshhold.
narciso (89c110) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:47 pmMacron the former socialist finance minister is the centrist, like red queen?
narciso (89c110) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:52 pmLePen is far less likely to fight Putin than Angela Merkel, who will have Macron’s cooperation, is.
nk (9651fb) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:54 pmThat only tells me that your teachers were all ugly, happyfeet.
nk (9651fb) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:57 pmmy brains turned out really good but i probably cheated i think
i did diced skillet potatoes in olive oil for a bit then added fresh chopped garlic and some diced onions
salt, pepper, and cavender’s
i drained the brains and added them in with the vegetables, cooked for a bit, then hiked up the heat and covered until i heard popping and sizzling noises, stirred, recovered, turned off the heat and came back in 20
had them in corn tortillas topped with shredded red cabbage
so it would’ve been pretty hard for this to go badly
i ate four tacos – had just a little left that i’ll probably add to scrambled eggs in the morning
from what i could tell the taste isn’t all that yummy
the texture was fine – i was worried about that, but taste-wise it didn’t taste like pork, it tasted more like an organ meat, which makes sense i guess
i think i was expecting something more like cabeza, which is not rational but I think i had that in the back of my mind
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:58 pmTo do what exactly will they follow the path to crimea
https://mobile.twitter.com/BlaiseInKC/status/860885033418207232
Both of them went along with the Rhodes road show which required russia’ s cooperation.
narciso (89c110) — 5/6/2017 @ 5:58 pm#12 a psychologist might be able to help you deal with your unreq
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:00 pmyes that was probably untoward of me to say, about the old teachers
that picture i saw of him and her when he was 15 was squicky i thought
matthew caulfield married haley mill’s sister, and she was way older than him like she coulda been his mom
that was a judgment call on his part i guess
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:03 pmArgue with Benjamin Franklin. https://www.swarthmore.edu/SocSci/bdorsey1/41docs/51-fra.html
nk (9651fb) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:04 pm#12 a psychologist might be able to help you deal with your unrequited feelings for that high school teacher from your past
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:05 pmHave you developed any pig derived super powers? The ability to sniff out truffles perhaps?
papertiger (c8116c) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:17 pmThe force De frappe came into being because degaulle who it turned out had a Soviet spy ring in his inner circle didn’t trust americans
narciso (89c110) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:17 pmFrance also legislates the time of year when French retail outfits can put merchandise on clearance.
But to understand France, compare their version of the Bill of Rights (although it really functioned as their Declaration of Independence)–the Declaration of the Rights of Man–to the real thing. You’ll notice how often it trwsts rights as communal, not individual, and is as much a declaration of the Rights of the State as it is the Rights of Individuals. Hard to believe that Jefferson helped write it.
kishnevi (31ec7b) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:21 pmno superpowers so far
i have 3 more cans though but i should wait a good month before i go at it again cause of the cholesterols
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:27 pmYou shoulda had a hot dog, happyfeet.
mg (31009b) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:29 pmi’m kinda wary of them now after Mr. nk’s report
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:29 pmAren’t they on version 8.0, now? And they also coined the word “communism”.
nk (9651fb) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:30 pmI’ll try some Hebrew National, they answer to a higher authority, and report back.
nk (9651fb) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:32 pmWell no, but they did try to put it in practice the Paris commune?
narciso (89c110) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:33 pmgood good that sounds like a good way forward
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:34 pmChicago must have a super duper good hot dog joint, or sausage shop.
mg (31009b) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:47 pmFranksville at Harlem and Addison. Best gyros and Italian beef too. Been going there for over forty years. Same owners — we watched each other getting older.
nk (9651fb) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:55 pmAgreed, nk. Hebrew National are the best dogs IMHO. Also, their Kosher Salami, cut about 1/4″ thick and grilled on the outdoor grill. Fan-f’in-tastic.
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 5/6/2017 @ 6:59 pmgyros with cukes, tomato, dill and tzatziki sauce, nk?
mg (31009b) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:01 pmAmbiguous. In France, commune can correspond to what we call municipal or local political entities like town, city, county.
kishnevi (31ec7b) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:03 pmBTW, Dana, that’s a beaux double entendre you managed in the headline. Or perhaps belle double entendre. Unlike the biological sort, my knowledge of French language gender is minimal.
And sliced onion, mg.
nk (9651fb) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:10 pmpiglipsandanus
Colonel Haiku (92ce59) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:12 pmain’t no amount of grilling
that will make it right
But the Jacobin spirit is the predecessor to predecessor to the Soviets and the khmer
narciso (89c110) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:14 pmsounds so good, nk.
mg (31009b) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:14 pmbut Lockeford sausage
Colonel Haiku (92ce59) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:16 pmnow you’re speaking my language
onions peppers bun
In Mexico the media black-out period extends beyond the polls closing to midnight, whereupon a spokesman from their FEC equivalent goes on television and announces a clear winner or too close to call. That made the Lopez Obrador hootenanny of 2006 even more interesting. It was tough enough to start seeing states slip from their grip by 10 pm ET, but could you imagine a 12:00am announcement sans buildup with only PA as uncertain but the clincher – you would hear agonizing screams instead of the whimpers.
urbanleftbehind (847a06) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:18 pmSo I’m cutting some growth back behind the waterfall that spills into our pool and a hen duck flies out and startled me. I’m thinking, this is not good, explore further and find a nest with 9 eggs. We’ve had a mallard drake and hen that have been a real nuisance for a couple of weeks, I’ve had to chase them away and out of the pool a couple of times a day. This explains it. They could’ve been like normal ducks and set up their domicile 2 blocks away in a slough or the lake, but no.
Colonel Haiku (92ce59) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:20 pmNarciso, I would say it’s the immediate ancestor. Did you ever read Schama’s history of the Revolution?
kishnevi (31ec7b) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:21 pmOnions and Orange Peppers steamed but allowing for carmelization are the go-to for both round steak and for Italian sausage for me.
urbanleftbehind (847a06) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:23 pmCareful, Col. You may find your backyard declared a wetlands.
kishnevi (31ec7b) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:24 pmOh God no! lol, kishnevi!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:25 pmRobins used to set up a nest between my porch light and adjoining wall every spring. Before the days of selfie sticks, would always crane the arm to catch a picture of four blue eggs in the nest and then the chicks once born.
urbanleftbehind (847a06) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:25 pmJust checked Google. Duck eggs take 28 days to hatch. Unless they turn out to be Muscovy, in which case it’s 35.
kishnevi (31ec7b) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:26 pmYes and winik who pointed out the sjw nature of the leader of the terror, somewhat like the people’s will a century later attempted
narciso (89c110) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:28 pmAll I get on my patio are spider webs.
kishnevi (31ec7b) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:28 pm@ kish (#27), this is from Abrams’ book:
Beldar (fa637a) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:37 pmJust like freedom of worship means practically nothing.
narciso (89c110) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:39 pmthat barack guy is interfering with an international election
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:53 pmon top of that, he’s revealing his misogyny by opposing the female candidate
i’m sure the media will hammer him for it
Does Eritrea have a functional government?
The French version is instructive. Notice how the left hand in the last clause has the ability to take away what the right hand of the firstclause gives in both articles.
(Wikipedia here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Rights_of_Man_and_of_the_Citizen)
Just like freedom of worship means practically nothing.
kishnevi (31ec7b) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:58 pmBut freedom of religion can be pushed too far. Hobby Lobby represents the idea that a person can pick and choose whatever laws he wants to obey by claiming religious freedom. Ultimately that destroys the rule of law.
It’s much more nuanced than that. It was an attempt to crush public religion expression that runs counter to the latest fad.
narciso (89c110) — 5/6/2017 @ 8:04 pmFire-able lapse of judgement/vetting (pardon the source)?
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/05/paul-ryan-obliviously-poses-with-protester-wearing-anti-trumpcare-go-fck-yourself-shirt/
urbanleftbehind (ea8ec6) — 5/6/2017 @ 8:16 pmRaw story gives morbo , irregardless not the softest move on Hanskell’s part.
narciso (89c110) — 5/6/2017 @ 8:25 pmYou got that exactly wrong kishnevi. I’m not surprised.
What part of free exercise do you not understand?
NJRob (68f3b2) — 5/6/2017 @ 10:07 pmTurnout is 28.2%
narciso (2e2155) — 5/7/2017 @ 6:31 amhttp://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2017/05/hillary_the_girl_cant_take_it.html
58. kishnevi (31ec7b) — 5/6/2017 @ 7:58 pm
It does, but it doesn’t function any way anyone would want a government to function.
All males and all females withot children are drafted into the army for very long periods – something like the cantonists in Czarist Russia only worse.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/baobab/2014/03/national-service-eritrea
It’s basically slavery, under another name, and there are no individual owners, in theory.
However, for money, it is possible to bribe people to escape the country. Avoiding the draft or deserrtion is not that firmly aestablished as grounds for asylum.
Many many people outside the country become some sort of criminal.
Sammy Finkelman (845007) — 5/7/2017 @ 9:18 amIncidentally, Eritrea comes up in a what the Wall Street Journal called a real case of defamation by Alex Jones against the Greek yogurt company Chobani..
https://www.wsj.com/articles/chobani-vs-alex-jones-1493589530
or https://www.facebook.com/wsj/posts/10155907354943128
They claimed Chobani had brought Syrian refugees to rape. Chobani didn’t actually bring anybody – they just volunteered to emply people, and rapists were neither Syrian nor employed by Chobani. They were Eritrean and Iraqi. The interesry=ting thing here is the the actual story does not back up the headline. But there a real attempt to defame and to have consequences for the business – although the real target of the defamation was Syrians. And they wanted everybody to be cold to them.
Sammy Finkelman (845007) — 5/7/2017 @ 9:33 amNJRob (68f3b2) — 5/6/2017 @ 10:07 pm
The proposition in Hobby Lobby is that someone can exempt themselves from obeying a law on the grounds it violates their freedom of religion, with no need to prove that it actually does so, and without regard to any detriment to any one else.
Suppose that Jihadi Jamil is arrested for beheading Christian Charlotte, and claims that his freedom of religion exempts him from obeying the law against murder, despite the obvious detriment to Christian Charlotte.
Now, no one except a jihadi would accept that claim. But there is no way to distinguish Jihadi Jamil’s claim from that of Hobby Lobby, except by the assertion (and necessarily arbitrary, at that) that freedom of religion does not apply to homicide cases. Jihadi Jamil is merely an extreme version of Hobby Lobby: the principle is the same.
So either Jihadi Jamil’s freedom of religion allows him to behead whomever he wants, or Hobby Lobby was wrongly decided.
I say Hobby Lobby was wrongly decided.
kishnevi (d764f4) — 5/7/2017 @ 10:09 amCongress shall make no law probiting the free exercise of religion does not mean either that all laws can ignore the impact it may have on a religious belief, or that if someone has a religion that says he has a religious duty to kill people that can’t be made illegal for him.
Somehow courts maage to thread their way through this.
Sammy Finkelman (3fda43) — 5/7/2017 @ 10:17 amNot quite. The government did not demand that Hobby Lobby refrain from government-disapproved conduct, it demanded an affirmative act from Hobby Lobby which was against its principals’ religion. The proper analogy is not prople who kill in the name of their religion, it is people who refuse to kill because their religion forbids it even though the government orders it. Such as conscientious objectors to military service.
nk (9651fb) — 5/7/2017 @ 10:20 amAnd whereas the defense of our country from foreign enemies is a compelling governmental interest, what is the government’s interest in forcing Hobby Lobby to insure that its employees don’t get pregnant?
nk (9651fb) — 5/7/2017 @ 10:28 amJihadi Jamil will respond that allowing infidels to live is itself an affirmative action. And the Hobby Lobby rule doesn’t allow you to argue he’s wrong. And ensuring that an employer who offers prescription coverage does not interefere with their private medical choices (in this case, whether or not to use birth control) is a governmental interest, as much a governmental interest as keeping Charlotte alive.
I repeat: the proposition behind Hobby Lobby is the idea that people can pick and choose what laws to obey, something that undercuts the whole idea of rule of law.
kishnevi (d764f4) — 5/7/2017 @ 10:42 amhobby lobby is good for crafts and stuff
i don’t know if you can get pregnant there or whatever
it’s a good place for to get artificial flowers for mom and dad cause of real ones are banned cause the deers eat em up
personally i think mom would get a kick out of deers eating up her flowers
rules are stupid
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/7/2017 @ 10:45 amMeanwhile, the Europeans are at it again.
kishnevi (d764f4) — 5/7/2017 @ 10:59 amhttp://www.jewishpress.com/news/global/europe/eu/norway-again-mulls-circumcision-ban-on-baby-boys/2017/05/07/
If I had my druthers nobody would ever cut on my schmeckle.
But when you’re two weeks old nobody asks your opinion.
papertiger (c8116c) — 5/7/2017 @ 11:03 amHell, I’m just glad Jews don’t cut off their ears to signify their covenant with God.
papertiger (c8116c) — 5/7/2017 @ 11:06 amOr gouge out an eye.
papertiger (c8116c) — 5/7/2017 @ 11:07 amThe French polls have closed as of t minus oh. Belay that. T plus 9
papertiger (c8116c) — 5/7/2017 @ 11:09 ami have no opinion on the circumcisions in norway at all
in michigan they cut off clitorises, which is shocking to me
probably not so shocking to Justin Amash but to me it is very shocking
i’m like you did WHAT
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/7/2017 @ 11:09 amFranceinfo took six minutes from the close of polls to declare Macron the winter.
kishnevi (d764f4) — 5/7/2017 @ 11:15 amThe Telegraph gives Macron 65.5 percent to LePen 34.5, with large numbers of voters not showing up to vote.
Telegraph link
kishnevi (d764f4) — 5/7/2017 @ 11:16 amhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/french-election-results-analysis/
Wrong. The proposition behind Hobby Lobby was that lawyers for leftists can force Christians to finance abhorrent, immoral acts for other people against their will and against their religion. All they need to do was compromise and remove all the birth control and abortion crap and there was no problem. But that wasn’t a good enough compromise. They had to force leftist dogma down the throats of everybody. There is nothing “unreasonable” about not covering something that previously was not covered. But the point was never to cover contraception. Hell, it’s only a few bucks. The point was to do harm through lawfare against leftist enemies and therefore diminish America.
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 5/7/2017 @ 11:19 amno way Le Pen would’ve won if Putin hadn’t released that little boy’s emails
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/7/2017 @ 11:20 amHoagie, you’re so overwrought that you managed to get right and left mixed up in that last sentence. The court rejected the argument you put into the the mouths of “leftists”. Or more precisely, the Court said Hobby Lobby’s owners could exempt themselves from a law based on the owner’s own say so that it was immoral and abhorrent, and without any regard to the effects on others, or the reasonableness of the exemption.
Again: the premise of Hobby Lobby is that people can pick and choose what laws they will obey.
kishnevi (d764f4) — 5/7/2017 @ 11:34 amdrudge already has a pic up of macron and his mom before the votes are even all tallied up and counted using the french number system
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/7/2017 @ 11:39 ampapertiger (c8116c) — 5/7/2017 @ 11:06 am
Now if someone comes looking for a slave, or for slaves who escaped from Babylonia, he’s going to see someone with a partially cut off or damaged ear, but they are not going to be slaves who wants to escape – just the opposite. The bounty hunting is frustrated. Even of the damage is not the same, and maybe it was.
And this is maybe what Moses was referrinbg to in his first farewell address Deut 4: 5-6
Now what statutes are they going to find out? They’re going to find out this little thing that frustrates the hunt for escaped slaves. Now actually they didn’t invent them on their own, but Moses does justify the term great nation.
——————————–
Sammy Finkelman (3fda43) — 5/7/2017 @ 11:45 am* The lead king was actually another king, Chedorlaomer, but Amraphel was remembered in the days of Moses, this would probably be because of his code of laws – also his imppact in other ways – so it says the days of Amraphel)
The eye (most vauable part that does not heal) – or the tooth (least valuable part that does not heal) had to be ransomed in certain cases. This system fell apart in later years.
Sammy Finkelman (3fda43) — 5/7/2017 @ 11:48 amVladimir Putin doesn’t know a thing about winning elections. Does he really think that releasing random em-mails, even maybe seeded with forgeries – is going to swing votes? There’s got to be a reason for people to switch votes. (He was for Le Pen, and had even gotten her a lot of money. And now this release of e-mails, like it was magic bullet.)
https://www.ft.com/content/010eec62-30b5-11e7-9555-23ef563ecf9a
One thing, by the way, that this lek shows you is what is wrong with blackout periods for campaigns.
Over the past several years, the Russian leader and the far-right politician, who share a similar nationalist outlook, have developed close ties. These links have been cemented by complex financial arrangements and overwhelmingly positive coverage of Ms Le Pen in the Russian state-backed media.
Sammy Finkelman (3fda43) — 5/7/2017 @ 12:00 pmDid LePen ever say she “would be more flexible” after the election, Sammeh?
Colonel Haiku (92ce59) — 5/7/2017 @ 12:28 pmWhich means what? That they didn’t introduce her as Hitler’s god-daughter, or make clear her first name isn’t Far-right Le Pen?
papertiger (c8116c) — 5/7/2017 @ 12:34 pmNothing spells gestapo quite like “French banks refuse to lend to them because they fear”.
papertiger (c8116c) — 5/7/2017 @ 12:38 pmYes tiger if they could kick out a well meaning sort like Lieberman out of the Democratic party, JFK would be a far right candidate by their lights.
narciso (4abc80) — 5/7/2017 @ 12:39 pmBy happenstance I clicked on C-Span Presidential Historian Survey.
They list Obama at #12 just behind #11 Woodrow Wilson, and #10 Lyndon Johnson.
Who comes up with this crap? How could they be that twisted?
Turns out they’ve got a page to answer that question. https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=participants
Many of them are history teachers at colleges – tiny obscure colleges. I don’t feel qualified to credit their opinion.
But there are a few names in there I did recognize.
Hiltzik, Michael
Journalist and Author
Roberts, Cokie
Journalist and Biographer
Sabato, Larry
University of Virginia Center for Politics
Suddenly the cockeyed list of best to worst Presidents becomes crystal clear.
papertiger (c8116c) — 5/7/2017 @ 1:23 pmIt’s Macron May, knit-wits.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/7/2017 @ 1:31 pmNorth Korea nabs another American…
At a certain point you have to write these guys off. Like that dude who moved to Alaska to live a year with the grizzly bears, or people who nap on train tracks.
Nothing screams BAD IDEA like “Christian missionary planning to”.
I don’t think it reflects poorly upon the Lord for me to say so.
papertiger (c8116c) — 5/7/2017 @ 1:46 pmQuite an achievement, overcoming an Obama endorsement.
papertiger (c8116c) — 5/7/2017 @ 1:58 pmHaven’t sold you, eh, kishnevi? But wait, there’s more. The Hobby Lobby case was not decided under the First Amendment. It was decided under the RFRA. Which is Congress placing a blanket limitation on its own legislation, in this case the ACA. And however Jihadi Jamil might interpret it, I doubt that any court would interpret it as Congress’s intent that it would be a license to commit murder provided it was for religious reasons.
nk (dbc370) — 5/7/2017 @ 2:15 pmMany of them are history teachers at colleges – tiny obscure colleges. I don’t feel qualified to credit their opinion.
Size matters, eh.
Purdue? Notre Dame? Gettysburg College? William & Mary? Rice? Clemson? Princeton? Duke? Brown? Univ., of Texas? Duquesne? Penn State? U.S. Naval Academy? Naval War College? Iowa State? Howard? Univ. of Pennsylvania? Georgetown? Pepperdine? Hunter? MSU? Stanford? Hell, even the Herritage Foundation.
Dallek? MacDougall? Brinkley? Farber? Richard Norton and Lou Cannon, etc? Ignorance is bliss, fella, so you must be one happy clam:
Ackerman, Kenneth
Lawyer and Historian;
Anthony, Carl Sferrazza
First Ladies Library;
Arnold, Peri
University of Notre Dame;
Ayers, Edward
University of Richmond;
Borneman, Walter R.
Lawyer and Historian;
Brennan, Mary
Texas State University;
Brinkley, Douglas
Rice University;
Burton, Vernon
Clemson University;
Calhoun, Charles
East Carolina University;
Cannon, Lou
Journalist and Biographer;
Clements, Kendrick
University of South Carolina;
Clinton, Catherine
The University of Texas at San Antonio;
Cordery, Stacy
Iowa State University;
Cramer Brownell, Kathryn
Purdue University;
Crapol, Edward
The College of William & Mary;
Dallek, Robert
Historian and Biographer;
Edwards, Laura
Duke University;
Edwards, Lee
The Heritage Foundation;
Egerton, Douglas
Le Moyne College;
Farber, David
The University of Kansas;
Fauntroy, Michael
Howard University;
Felzenberg, Alvin
Historian and Author;
Ferguson, Andrew
Journalist and Author;
Fleming, Thomas
Historian and Author;
Folsom, Burton
Hillsdale College;
Gellman, Irwin
Historian and Author;
Goodrich, Debra
Historian and Author;
Gordon-Reed, Annette
Harvard Law School;
Gormley, Ken
Duquesne University;
Greenberg, Amy S.
The Pennsylvania State University;
Greenberg, David
Rutgers University;
Greene, J. Robert
Cazenovia College;
Greenstein, Fred
Princeton University;
Guelzo, Allen
Gettysburg College;
Hamby, Alonzo
Ohio University;
Hamilton, Nigel
University of Massachusetts Boston;
Heclo, Hugh
George Mason University;
Henriques, Peter
George Mason University;
Hiltzik, Michael
Journalist and Author;
Hoff, Joan
Montana State University;
Holt, Michael F.
University of Virginia;
Holzer, Harold
Hunter College;
Hubbard, Charles
Lincoln Memorial University;
Jackson, Maurice
Georgetown University;
Jeansonne, Glen
University of Wisconsin – Milwaukee;
Kaufman, Robert
Pepperdine University;
Kengor, Paul
Grove City College;
Kennedy, David
Stanford University;
Knott, Stephen
U.S. Naval War College;
Madonna, G. Terry
Franklin & Marshall College;
Mann, James
Journalist and Author;
Maranto, Robert
University of Arkansas;
Marszalek, John
Mississippi State University;
McDougall, Walter
University of Pennsylvania;
Medford, Edna
Howard University;
Merry, Robert
Journalist and Author;
Miroff, Bruce
University at Albany, State University of New York;
Morris, Seymour Jr.
Historian and Author;
Neuman, Johanna
Historian and Journalist;
Newby-Alexander, Cassandra
Norfolk State University;
O’Mara, Margaret
University of Washington;
Painter, Nell Irvin
Princeton University;
Pika, Joe
University of Delaware;
Pious, Richard
Barnard College;
Pitney, Jack
Claremont McKenna College;
Randall, Willard Sterne
Champlain College;
Renshon, Stanley
CUNY;
Ritchie, Don
Senate Historian – retired;
Roberts, Cokie
Journalist and Biographer;
Roberts, Randy
Purdue University;
Rockman, Bert
Purdue University;
Sabato, Larry
University of Virginia Center for Politics;
Seale, William
White House Historical Association;
Sheldon, Garrett
University of Virginia at Wise;
Shirley, Craig
Historian and Author;
Sibley, Katherine
Saint Joseph’s University;
Simpson, Brooks
Arizona State University;
Smith, Richard Norton
Historian and Biographer;
Stuckey, Mary
Georgia State University
Symonds, Craig
U.S. Naval Academy;
Thomas, Evan
Journalist and Author;
Troy, Gil
McGill University;
Troy, Tevi
Historian and Author;
Warshaw, Shirley
Gettysburg College;
Watson, Robert
Lynn University;
Waugh, Joan
University of California, Los Angeles;
White, Jonathan
Christopher Newport University;
White, Ron
The Huntington Library;
Wilentz, Sean
Princeton University;
Wood, Gordon
Brown University;
Woods, Randall
University of Arkansas.
But I’ll give you Grove City– we’d kick their tiny butts in football every year.
“Read, brother. Read.” – Jack Gilford, – Public Service Announcement, 1960’s
DCSCA (797bc0) — 5/7/2017 @ 2:33 pmlike I said, I don’t feel qualified to credit their opinion.
BUT judging by the company they keep, and the barnacles attached to their undercarriage
papertiger (c8116c) — 5/7/2017 @ 2:42 pmI believe it was Mark Steyn who coined the phrase, and the French election is a great example of a win “Beyond the margin of theft.”
Ed from SFV (3400a5) — 5/7/2017 @ 2:42 pmHoly moley Sammy.
That whole bit with the bondsmen ear piercing.
papertiger (c8116c) — 5/7/2017 @ 2:54 pmiT’s enough to make you call for Jesus.
papertiger (c8116c) — 5/7/2017 @ 2:55 pmSang froid, mon cher! Better the closet socialist than the national socialist, ne c’est pas?
nk (dbc370) — 5/7/2017 @ 3:02 pmJe demande un recu! Recommencer. Recommencer. Recommencer.
papertiger (c8116c) — 5/7/2017 @ 3:25 pmThe Russians queered this round. Recommencer.
papertiger (c8116c) — 5/7/2017 @ 3:27 pmNo,
Nothing closet about the internationalist socialist Macon. He earned his chops in the stew of socialism.
NJRob (fb367f) — 5/7/2017 @ 3:52 pmKishnevi,
Show me in our Founding documents where they intended to force the faithful to violate their faith because the government deems it so.
And yes, I mean Christian faith as all of the 13 colonies were Christian.
I’ll wait.
NJRob (fb367f) — 5/7/2017 @ 3:54 pmRobert merry is very good, a chronicler of the alsop clan among others, Shirley the leading biographer of Reagan, quality drops after that, sabato, don’t get me started
narciso (d1f714) — 5/7/2017 @ 3:56 pmDouglas brinkley, seriously
narciso (d1f714) — 5/7/2017 @ 3:58 pmDouglas brinkley, seriously
Kengor and Mcdougall are in the first group.
narciso (d1f714) — 5/7/2017 @ 4:01 pmhttps://theconservativetreehouse.com/2017
narciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 4:35 pm/05/07/head-of-isis-in-afghanistan-confirmed-dead/#more-132328
i imagine most of those historians are left-leaning
otherwise, they wouldn’t have attained tenure at those higher institutions of indoctrination
by the way, that creepy creepy michael hiltzik guy has been suspended by the la times on at least two separate occasions for conduct unbecoming of a *journalist*
Cruz Supporter (102c9a) — 5/7/2017 @ 4:42 pmHolzer was a good chronicler of our 16th president.
narciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 4:52 pmI was referring to this, kish
http://www.erythrospress.com/store/communards.html
narciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 4:57 pmKengor has a good take on WW1.
mg (31009b) — 5/7/2017 @ 4:58 pmThe second fall of man
Niall ferguson of hard? And Cambridge shared a similar view.
narciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 5:06 pmnarciso is amazing.
mg (31009b) — 5/7/2017 @ 5:34 pmThanks, merry was one of the few historians that actually predicted trump’s victory.
Re the character of mdme le pen’ s movement it had echoed in boulanger in the late 19th century and poujade in the 50s, the latter pushed for intervention in Algeria after dien Ben phu
narciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 5:43 pmThis was in the Weekly Standard, NJRob and it sort of says what I mean:
The problem we have here is kishnevi believes the Hobby Lobby decision was wrong because it allowed an entity to pick and choose the laws it wants to obey. First of all we all obey ONLY the laws we want to obey that’s why there are cops and courts. Secondly I believe the Hobby Lobby decision was correct (but will be overturned in favor of leftist corruption) because the law demanded that an entity pay for and provide a service an/or product for someone else at their own expense even if it violated their moral and religious conscience. As you wrote, none of that is in the Constitution but that hardly matters when the Constitution says whatever a leftist judge decides.
The left uses the Constitution and our laws not as guides toward justice but as bludgeons to beat their enemies. That’s why they are “resistance”. Resistance is not law it’s anti-law, fake law. It’s using the law as a weapon. Like they use every other facet of our society: against us.
Lawyers like that have bad equipment, their moral compass is broken. But what would you expect in a country where they graduate 40,000 new lawyers every year and that has over 70% of all the friggin’ lawyers on earth.
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 5/7/2017 @ 6:12 pmnk (dbc370) — 5/7/2017 @ 2:15 pm
kishnevi (ab2b70) — 5/7/2017 @ 6:14 pmObviously no court would buy Jihadi Jamil’s argument. Which is why Hobby Lobby needs to be thrown out. It’s bad law. The proper decision would have been, “Don’t like it? Get Congress to exempt you.”
NJRob (fb367f) — 5/7/2017 @ 3:54 pm
Your second sentence vitiates your first sentence. I will bear in mind that you don’t consider me a true American, being that I am not a Christian.
kishnevi (ab2b70) — 5/7/2017 @ 6:19 pmIt was the predominant faith at the time, hence the Danbury letter, which apparently has more weight than the actual amendment.
narciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 6:22 pmRev H., Fake Law is a good term. It describes Hobby Lobby, SCOTUS’s approval of Obamacare, Roe v Wade, Citizens United, and a host of other cases in which the judges were more interested in reaching a result, than applying the Constitution. Reach far back enough in time, and you can throw in Marbury v Madison, Dartmouth College, and a number of other cases.
kishnevi (ab2b70) — 5/7/2017 @ 6:25 pmWith respect, its more akin to making honny Lobby how before a statue of Augustus or the golden calf, citizens United was about outright speech suppression like what carried the day In france, today.. I disagree with the remedy proposed.
narciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 6:32 pmI think the most accurate statement of the Founders’s views would be
kishnevi (ab2b70) — 5/7/2017 @ 6:57 pm1) They understood freedom of religion to be what you call freedom of worship. Claiming exemption from a general law on religious grounds is, beyond CO status re military conscription, a modern development. Ask the Jehovah’s Witnesses.
2) They would be totally astonished by the idea of Obamacare, and want the whole thing thrown out, not just the birth control provision.
From the Danbury letter
I am fairly sure that Jefferson would agree with me.
kishnevi (ab2b70) — 5/7/2017 @ 7:03 pmNo freedom of worship is what Leopold Lopez has, if he’s still Alive, what cardinal mindzenty was allowed.
narciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 7:09 pmSadly its probably a dead letter in France as well. People have to actually be motivated by something, the revolution salted the ground and the tree of liberty now does gasping.
narciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 7:12 pm99. papertiger (c8116c) — 5/7/2017 @ 2:54 pm
I am not sure if they did (or were suppposed to do) the exact same thing to slaves who didn’t want to go free in Israel as they did to slaves who tried to ewxcape in Babylonia.
Many, many years later, the Romans had the idea of tattooing he forehead of a slave who tried to escape with the words (in Latin) “Stop me, I’m a [would-be] runaway.” Earlier, the Greeks had had a practice of incribing words on vases like the vase was saying them, so this woudl derive from that.
Sammy Finkelman (5818f3) — 5/7/2017 @ 7:13 pmNo sammeh it doesn’t mean that either, as in the time of Isaiah you don’t return trying to escape their bondage whether physical chains or psychological ones.
narciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 7:16 pmoverwhelmingly positive coverage of Ms Le Pen in the Russian state-backed media
The Financial Times doesn’t make too clear what they mean by that, but any kind of “home team” type coverage or cheerleading or positive coverage meant Russia was for her.
Sammy Finkelman (5818f3) — 5/7/2017 @ 7:19 pmLet me spell it out for you, sammeh, remember Westminster, nothing to see here, and you dare not point out, that’s for Neanderthals like Katie Hopkins, insert charlie Hebdo bataclan, louvre, notre dame. Etc etc.
narciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 7:27 pmThe irony is they think they can surpress this populist feeling well that generally doesn’t hold in France for long, in part because history always comes knocking also other outlets emerge, often unhealthy ones.
narciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 7:49 pmStatement of fact without evidence. Assertion is not fact.
I am fully aware you are not Christian and your faith and its inherent biases color your beliefs.
That does not change the fact that all 13 colonies were Christian nations and practiced as such.
Contrary to what the left believes, Jefferson’s letters are not Constitutional law any more than Adam’s proclamation that our Constitution was made for a “moral and religious people and wholly unfit for any other.”
Since you won’t cite the Constitution or the discussions that led to it, I will presume you have no such evidence.
NJRob (68f3b2) — 5/7/2017 @ 8:03 pmHobby Lobby was about RFRA, not enforcement of First Amendment rights per se.
If you’re not accounting for that in your argument, from either side, you’re guaranteed to be mistaken.
Beldar (fa637a) — 5/7/2017 @ 8:38 pmYes but what does rfra concern itself but the believers obligations to the state, what prompted the trek to the new world in the first place.
narciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 9:06 pmGinzburg’s dissent, also fairly called a meltdown, was illustrative. She wanted religious freedom to be only what the Supreme Court says it is, not Congress. The RFRA’s legislative history, however, was Congress saying “No, dammit, we’re going to give religious people more protection than you black-robed old fogies give them”, in response to the Oregon peyote case. When Hobby Lobby went before it, the Court had already knocked the RFRA down as it applied to state law (Tenth Amendment), but could find no non-risible hook to keep it from applying to federal law. The RFRA is in fact what kishnevi demanded: An exemption for religious persons from some laws and regulations, but as stand-alone blanket legislation and not an additional provision in each law passed by Congress.
nk (dbc370) — 5/7/2017 @ 9:25 pmHappyfeet (#3), Max Boot has issues but read a favorite piece of mine he wrote about a super warrior from of all places, France. It is well worth reading.
AZ Bob (f7a491) — 5/7/2017 @ 9:31 pmYes that seems so long ago, auseresse btw ended up training inmpressionalable Latin American and even south african nofficers some of these techniques at st. Cyr, his syllabi made the school of the Americas seem like weeblp scouts
narciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 9:47 pmMagnus Malan the one behind the total strategy campaign against umkhonto.
narciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 9:50 pmhttps://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/10310/emmanuel-macron-islamism?utm_source=TheDeplorables
narciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 10:04 pmi bookmarked about the consummate warrior i think i’m a try to get into work early today
happyfeet (28a91b) — 5/8/2017 @ 4:14 amFile this under both What a Waste (of a fine woman) and Instant Law and Order Episode:
urbanleftbehind (a88e42) — 5/8/2017 @ 6:17 amhttp://www.yahoo.com/news/2-doctors-killed-penthouse-boston-luxury-condo-141735478.html
France. Still surrendering.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VykcNE9Zg_4/WQ-gTY6i7pI/AAAAAAABhYk/qBb952dFb9oDqxPx6S3ReVvpYy2EwxqxQCLcB/s640/macron.jpg
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 5/8/2017 @ 6:18 amYes as bigeard and auseresse and even papa le pen point out, the French fought 16 years back to back conflicts,
https://pjmedia.com/election/2017/05/07/what-happened-in-france/
narciso (b695fc) — 5/8/2017 @ 6:30 amkishnevi 123,
They would be astonished but given where we are in terms of the scope of government power, I think they would applaud the application of RFRA in the Hobby Lobby decision. IMO legally authorizing “the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself” when it comes to all sincere religious beliefs — as RFRA arguably does — is exactly what the Founders would have embraced if their government had the powers ours has.
DRJ (15874d) — 5/8/2017 @ 6:48 amnarciso (2f8ade) — 5/7/2017 @ 7:16 pm
It was in foreign countries that they would try to gte escaped slaves (well in the time of Jeremiah they released them and then took them back, (Jer 32) but they were not supposed to.
What I am saying is tha a slave who never wanted to leave – who refused to go free (pfor reasons outlined in Exodux 21:4-6) looked a lot like slaves who escaped from Babylonia, and this was on purpose. A later Rabbi gave a different reason for the boring of the hole – soething about the ear that listened at Mt Sinai – but by that time they no longer knew about the Code of Hammurabi, which was discovered in Shusan (Susa) in 1901 by French archeologists. That was not its proper place. This had been kept by differenet kings in their collections of artifacts.
The palace in Susa burned down late in the reign of Artaxerxes I and that city was never again used as a capital in the Persian Empire. Mordechai certainly knew about it, and probably took custody of it because all the references to idol worship are erased from the stele.
This is the modern explanation of the scraping away:
http://www.livescience.com/39393-code-of-hammurabi.html
Like they know that that’s what happened or that that’s even remotely plausible.
It was probably one of the trophies collected by the Baylonian empire (particularly Nabonidus)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabonidus
Well, later on, of course that passed io the hands of the Persian Empire. The stele with the code of Hammurabi probably hadn’t been in Susa for very long – less than a century or even a half a century.
I say it was Mordechai who scraped some of the inscription away, and it was not preparation for writing anything else there. We know how much he was against anything that resembled (in his mind) idol worship. You remember, he wouldn’t bow down to Haman.
The law is not like Mordechai, and later editors of the book of Esther removed the specific reason as to why his being a Jew caused him not to bow down to Haman. (there’s like a little thing missing there – a little piece of explanation – in Esther 3:3-4, and I say the Anshei Knesses HaGedolah removed it because the Halacha (the proper law) is not like Mordechai and they didn’t want people to think so. There was the authority and/or the ability to do that kind of editing till about the time of Alexander the Great because it was just Writings – something read at assemblies of Jews every year around the 14th of Adar. It wasn’t from the Pentateuch or the Prophets. By the way Haman didn’t know Mordechai was not bowing down to him because Mordechai avoided his presence, so they had to tell him and they did it as a test case, because nobody much liked bowing down to Haman.)
Mordechai also, I think, gave money to build the Parthenon (which was actually origially part of an older peace proposal from the time of Xerxes) but evidently only on the condition that it would not be used for idol worship, and the Parthenon in fact was not a temple, and not thought to have been so for generations laterm and the statue of Athena was just decoration and Pericles I think said was just a store of gold. It was also a semi-secret for many years that the money to build it came from the Persian government. All of the terms were secret. Some hisrorians for some reason don’t want to acknowledge even the existence of this treaty now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_of_Callias
Some ancient historians didn’t want to mention it.
Sammy Finkelman (5818f3) — 5/8/2017 @ 7:28 am95. nk (dbc370) — 5/7/2017 @ 2:15 pm
135. nk (dbc370) — 5/7/2017 @ 9:25 pm
But Justice Scalia said, and he got other Justices to agree, including Kagan, that we don’t pay attention to legislative history, but just should look at the text of the law!
I suspect there’s something in the text that rules that out, that limits the application of the RFRA to not include mirder for religiously motivated reasons.
Sammy Finkelman (5818f3) — 5/8/2017 @ 7:40 amPlease don’t do that, kishnevi. Again it is disingenuous to read into “all of the 13 colonies were Christian” that NJRob doesn’t consider you a true American. And it’s silly. He doesn’t even infer that. He merely states the colonies were Christian and the laws were written accordingly. Or maybe you think they weren’t. Maybe you think the whole American experiment was created by heathens for the benefit of moslems to be governed by communists. God only knows what they taught you in law school. However, before the Mandela Effect sucked the white and Christian out of the Founding of America certain Truths were held to be self-evident. But those Truths only work if the general society agrees to them. If some believe it’s okay to use the law to bully their neighbor then the law becomes hostile to the citizens it’s supposed to serve. For example: giving religious freedom to a religion that would eliminate religious freedom is a fools errand. Another example is the conversion of government to the religion of atheism. It’s a religious belief, based on faith, that there is no God. Yet the government is supposedly not allowed to establish a religion. The abuse of America by law is legion. The ACA is but one example among thousands.
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 5/8/2017 @ 7:41 am145. Or, because the RFRA doesn’t apply to sate laws, let’s say terrorism for religiously motivated reasons. I don’t think a defense lawyer would have much success with such a claim. But the question is, why would that not work?
Sammy Finkelman (5818f3) — 5/8/2017 @ 7:55 amI was referring to the legislative history in the context of America’s appreciation of freedom of religion generally, and not in the context of statutory interpretation, Sammy. That’s why I mentioned Ginzburg’s dissent. In the RFRA, Congress recognizes greater religious freedom than the Supreme Court’s First Amendment cases do.
nk (dbc370) — 5/8/2017 @ 7:57 amAfter the Supreme Court ruled that the RFRA could not apply to the states, many states passed their own religious freedom laws.
nk (dbc370) — 5/8/2017 @ 7:59 amNone of them permit conversion by the sword, human sacrifice, or temple prostitutes.
nk (dbc370) — 5/8/2017 @ 8:00 amThanks Hoagie,
I didn’t bother quoting that because it was obvious he was trying to put words in my mouth to attack my character instead of debate the facts. Why he chose to do that is up to him.
There were enough non-Christians at the time of the nation’s founding to disprove his obvious lie. It’s also obvious that the 13 States were all Christian and the laws were created with that in mind.
NJRob (68f3b2) — 5/8/2017 @ 8:04 amIt’s silly even to argue that Christianity is not the central pillar of Western civilization. Even for atheists — their humanistic ideals are Christian ideals missing only acknowledgment of a Higher Power.
nk (dbc370) — 5/8/2017 @ 8:08 amAll Western civilization, not only America.
nk (dbc370) — 5/8/2017 @ 8:08 amI agree, nk. I also think admitting that is not admitting you agree with the religion itself. You are just aware that it was they who created the West. And I believe it’s they who are destroying it too. IOW, we have met the enemy and it really is us. We have taken the “classically liberal” Protestant Ethic and worked it to the absurd where we can’t tell people who want to destroy us to get the hell out. Or to the point where we can’t point out there are two sexes and if you disagree you need professional help not a parade.
Seems we have turned the Constitution into a suicide pack after all.
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 5/8/2017 @ 8:29 am“If some believe it’s okay to use the law to bully their neighbor then the law becomes hostile to the citizens it’s supposed to serve. For example: giving religious freedom to a religion that would eliminate religious freedom is a fools errand. Another example is the conversion of government to the religion of atheism. It’s a religious belief, based on faith, that there is no God. Yet the government is supposedly not allowed to establish a religion. The abuse of America by law is legion.”
– Rev. Hoagie
That is authentic frontier gibberish. I don’t even know where to begin.
Leviticus (efada1) — 5/8/2017 @ 9:18 am“our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions any more than our opinions in physics or geometry, that therefore the proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence, by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument, unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion, is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages, to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natural right, that it tends only to corrupt the principles of that very Religion it is meant to encourage, by bribing with a monopoly of worldly honours and emoluments those who will externally profess and conform to it…”
Leviticus (efada1) — 5/8/2017 @ 9:25 amSo, Leviticus, are you saying that we should not have religious freedom laws unless, in addition to sacramental peyote for American Indians and communion wine for Christians under 21, they also remit coerced conversion for Muslims, human sacrifice for Aztecs, and temple prostitutes for Hindus?
nk (dbc370) — 5/8/2017 @ 10:39 amremit=permit
nk (dbc370) — 5/8/2017 @ 10:40 amOf course not. I’m saying that our courts have articulated tests to decide when and how government may regulate religious practice – tests which easily dispense with such meaningless statements as “giving religious freedom to a religion that would eliminate religious freedom is a fool’s errand.”
Leviticus (efada1) — 5/8/2017 @ 11:00 amBruce bawer explains upthread,
narciso (ba0522) — 5/8/2017 @ 11:16 amgirl from Paris I
Colonel Haiku (92ce59) — 5/8/2017 @ 12:09 pmsaid she was a lady perhaps
she said “I may be”
“…they also remit coerced conversion for Muslims, human sacrifice for Aztecs, and temple prostitutes for Hindus?”
heh… he forgot Acme products for coyotes…
Colonel Haiku (92ce59) — 5/8/2017 @ 12:11 pmI was kidding, Leviticus. And kishnevi more than you.
nk (dbc370) — 5/8/2017 @ 12:14 pmHeh… https://static.pjmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Screen-Shot-2017-05-08-at-1.21.32-PM.png
Colonel Haiku (92ce59) — 5/8/2017 @ 12:18 pmToday is V-E Day – there was a president of France who wanted to cancel it. And tehn he backed down. What’s the status now?
Sammy Finkelman (6f9f42) — 5/8/2017 @ 2:11 pmThere’s alittle issue in New York City now about the city honoring a Nazi collaborator.
How did this happen?
It seems like the City of New York recently decided to honor all the people honored with ticker-tape parades since 1886, with markers marker honoring them along 13 blocks of Broadway and calling it the “Canyon of Heroes”.
One of them was…
Marshal Henri Philippe Petain, given a ticker tape parade in 1931.
He was the World War I general who led the French Second Army at the Battle of Verdun in 1916. A big hero.
But later on, at the age of 84 in 1940, he became the head of the government of France that collaborated with the Nazis. Not only did they do thsi, but they actually volunteered on their own to round up Jews (for what they had to know was probable death) in the hopes of getting a bit more independence.
After World War II, Marshal Petain was convicted of treason and got a death sentence later commuted to a life sentence behind bars. He died at the age of 95. (I thought 94 but I looked it up on Wikipedia.)
Sammy Finkelman (6f9f42) — 5/8/2017 @ 2:23 pmThis is for Steve57. These are some of our salon girls cleaning up a lot in North Philly for Habitat for Humanity under the watchful eye of our Society Hill manager. Notice how even when doing community outreach Korean ladies always dress to impress.
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7IcYeetUsus/WQ6swQACDiI/AAAAAAABhX4/M9QtsFTGMj4wZDz-Bgnzj4R2JFNICpmUQCLcB/s1600/daily_picdump_2499_52.jpg
Rev.Hoagie® (630eca) — 5/8/2017 @ 3:51 pm