The Jury Talks Back

2/27/2017

Oh, Kellyanne…

Filed under: Uncategorized — Dana @ 7:22 pm

[guest post by Dana]

I started to write a post about President Trump’s meeting with leaders of the nation’s historically black universities and colleges at the White House today but I got so distracted by this photo that I lost my train of thought:

kellyanne

This isn’t helping your boss, Kellyanne. Appearances matter, optics matter, and how you carry yourself matters.

–Dana

42 Comments »

  1. Good grief.

    Comment by Dana — 2/27/2017 @ 7:24 pm

  2. I’ve never seen an adult sit like that on a sofa. That’s… appalling to do in any sort of a formal setting IMHO. Doubly so to do it in the oval office!

    I’m an admirer of Conway, but this is a jaw-dropper. Good grief indeed.

    Comment by Arizona CJ — 2/28/2017 @ 12:38 am

  3. Not a lady.

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 4:38 am

  4. It’s fascinating to read here and compare these comments to those at the main site. The commenters sometimes have to struggle to figure out how to defend The Donald and his merry band but they always find a way. Typically, they end up attacking the website’s host or whoever wrote the post.

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 4:48 am

  5. It’s not the worst thing that has happened in that room, however, it’s not the best way to conduct one’s self during a formal gathering and occasion where cameras are present. The best part about this is seeing all of those leftists that defended a sexual act in that room feign offense, while those that were outraged at photos of Obama’s feet on the desk say this is a big setup or not worth our time and outrage.

    Comment by Sean — 2/28/2017 @ 6:47 am

  6. Sean,

    There was a time when pointing out hypocrisy was an effective way to make people rethink their positions, but it doesn’t work with many people anymore. There has also been a decline in empathy. I think they may be related.

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 7:16 am

  7. The galvanic response of Trump’s pithed Pepes is very unlikely to change. It’s conditioned – there’s no evidence of thought playing any part in the reactions.

    Conway failed to exhibit situational awareness with the press present. Hopefully the incident will improve her understanding of the fish bowl in which she operates as well as the fact photographers can be worse piranha than the scribblers.

    Comment by Rick Ballard — 2/28/2017 @ 8:14 am

  8. DRJ, I do drop in to read the comments in the main site from time to time. It’s the impugning of the article-writer’s motives that irks me most – it’s downright sophomoric (not to mention rude).

    However, sometimes I see thoughtful things that make me think, and in so doing question my own perceptions. I always like that, and today was no exception. Mike K wrote (#142) ” if that photo had not been pushed by WaPo, Trump’s meeting with the black college presidents would never have been reported”

    Now that is a very, very interesting point – and makes me seriously question my initial reaction to this post.

    Said another way, is it possible that Conway’s preposterous pose is intentional and intended to order to generate coverage? I can see motive – the media would surely not have given the meeting any coverage at all, save for that.

    I looked at the picture again; it’s clear from the poses of the other people that they are all aware that the photgs are snapping away, it’s the “group shot moment”. And Conway, who is by any measure very skilled at messaging and political appearance (She managed a winning campaign, after all) plops herself down closest to the photographers, and sits like that, with no intent?

    Comment by Arizona CJ — 2/28/2017 @ 10:12 am

  9. I prefer the discussion here, AZ CJ, because it lets us have spirited but thoughtful debate about important issues, such as the issues raised in your comment.

    I, too, am bothered by the way commenters treat the bloggers. The attitude that it’s a good thing to get in someone’s face may have been introduced by Obama but it has been perfected by Trump and many of his supporters. It is a disappointing to see the one thing the left and right agree on is that civility is for wimps.

    Maybe Trump and his advisers are constantly playing games with the media. I hope not because it shows they view the Presidency as something fundamentally unserious, a game. Even if the Democrats treat the Presidency as a lark, the GOP should take it seriously or there won’t be many reasons to vote Republican. Americans know we need an adult in the White House every 8-12 years. Why vote Republican if the GOP wants to play teenager?

    Finally, the President doesn’t need the media to get his message out. Even Obama realized that and used social media to bypass the media. Trump has perfected it. Maybe this was his or Conway’s way of getting attention but doesn’t that bother you? Adults don’t need to get attention like 12-year-olds. They have adult responsibilities, and no one has more than a President and his advisers. If we have to remind them to grow up, sit up straight, and be courteous, they failed as adults.

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 10:55 am

  10. As was pointed out first by Harkin on the other thread (thank you), she was getting in position to take a picture.

    Perhaps it was not the most distinguished of poses, even while taking a picture,
    but even WAPO thinks the context absolves her if scandal.

    Comment by MD in Philly — 2/28/2017 @ 10:55 am

  11. Perhaps Dana will decide to post here and not there. It’s an option for bloggers who want real discussion and not Gateway Pundit-style hostility.

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 10:59 am

  12. She is not the White House photographer. She is a Presidential adviser and should act like an adult, not a contortionist. Would she stand on her head for Trump?

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 11:01 am

  13. But by all means, use WaPo as an official source for good things. Media cherrypicking is a feature for the left and the new right. When Dana or Patterico links sources like that, the howling never ends.

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 11:03 am

  14. DRJ
    I am terribly sorry for how all of this has played out.
    Yes, Dana and P and whoever can post what they want, and I don’t have to come here and read it.

    I would have been disappointed if anyone here made a big deal of a picture of Obama with his feet on the desk. Sure, such a thing was unbecoming, but there were so many other bigger fish to fry.
    That’s all.

    Comment by MD in Philly — 2/28/2017 @ 11:11 am

  15. Dana didn’t make a big deal out of this. She blogged it. That’s like mentioning it in the breakroom at work and, perhaps, sharing a laugh. But if someone thinks blogging is “making a big deal” out of topics, then commenting on ot at a blog is just as big a deal.

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 11:30 am

  16. DRJ,

    I know that about everything I say anymore is seen as insulting or attacking,
    even when I am truly trying to give thoughtful feedback from a friendly source.

    Above you said that you liked this blog because of the ability to debate important issues, then you suggest that I am wrong to suggest making a post is “making a big deal” out of something
    As one who rarely comes by anymore, I am just offering that criticizing an official over this doesn’t appear to me to be an important issue.

    Comment by MD in Philly — 2/28/2017 @ 11:42 am

  17. Sean,

    There was a time when pointing out hypocrisy was an effective way to make people rethink their positions, but it doesn’t work with many people anymore. There has also been a decline in empathy. I think they may be related.

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 7:16 am

    I fear you’re right

    Comment by Sean — 2/28/2017 @ 12:02 pm

  18. MD in Philly,

    “I do not like your post criticizing Donald Trump” is the most tiresome comment imaginable. If you feel you absolutely must post such unwanted and unhelpful comments, please, do not do so at the Jury. I am tempted to take down the comments but there has been so much back and forth that I don’t want to. However, “I find this topic boring” is not a comment I would expect to hear in my living room. Therefore I will delete any further comments along this line including attempts to justify it or protests that I am unfairly characterizing your comments or literally any other comment here on this topic. You are free to take such comments to the main site but the discussion about whether this post was worthwhile is officially over with this comment of mine and I do not want any more discussion on it here, please.

    Comment by Patterico — 2/28/2017 @ 12:25 pm

  19. My apology. It will not happen again.

    Comment by MD in Philly — 2/28/2017 @ 12:53 pm

  20. Following up on my comment 4, first they criticize Patterico and now they criticize Dana for speaking their minds. It’s not hard to see a pattern developing that seems designed to rally the base no matter what the leader does.

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 1:01 pm

  21. I’m sorry but I didn’t see comment 18 before I posted my last comment.

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 1:04 pm

  22. Please understand that I welcome any politely expressed disagreement supported by an argument. What I despise is “you post about x too much” or “you are deranged about x” or “I don’t think x is a worthy topic of conversation.” It’s not possible to constructively debate the truth of such assertions and they end up feeling personal.

    Comment by Patterico — 2/28/2017 @ 1:05 pm

  23. Yeah, I didn’t mean to carry on the discussion myself but I felt it necessary to clarify that I am not ruling out disagreement or debate here or anywhere. Just a certain type of non-debatable personal criticism.

    Also I’d like to say I accept the apology, MD in Philly.

    OK, now let us speak of this no more. :)

    Comment by Patterico — 2/28/2017 @ 1:07 pm

  24. My first reaction was “good grief.”

    My second reaction was “is it more inappropriate if she took off her shoes first, or if she didn’t?”

    But the notion that she did it so the meeting would get SOME attention from the anti-Trump press is… intriguing. She is intelligent and cunning enough to have done so deliberately.

    Comment by Jenos The Deplorable — 2/28/2017 @ 1:25 pm

  25. I just have a quick moment to dictate a comment on my phone. The point of the post, as I explained in the comment section on the front side of the blog, is to point out the foolishness of Conway giving the media so much to work with by behaving unprofessionally in front of cameras and guests in the Oval. That point seems to be being willfully ignored, as people keep defending Trump and Conway. If people cannot accept that the media is looking for any small insignificant thing with which to smear this administration or belittle them with, then they are not dealing in reality. And if the Trump people can’t see this, then they are fools.

    Both the media and the Trump administration have acknowledged that there is a war between them. How does it benefit the Trump administration then if someone like Conway does something foolish that plays perfectly into her opponent’s hands? I don’t see how her foolishness can’t be lumped in with and assumed that surely this is being anti-Trump just attacking needlessly

    What’s even more pathetic, is that I am not attacking Conway per se, I am saying, repeatedly, that she needs to be smarter about how she carries herself and presents or south wall in the oval office before cameras and guests.

    Let me ask you professionals in the comment section, would any of you ever dream of perching on the couch in the same position as Conway, and for the females,, wearing a dress doing so, while in your boss’s office as your boss met with important guests or clients??

    Comment by Dana — 2/28/2017 @ 1:26 pm

  26. Dana:

    I’m no professional, but I can see a reason to do so — to draw attention to an event that would otherwise be ignored by the anti-Trump press.

    Whether or not that was Conway’s intention I have no way of knowing. But I am willing to admit it as a possibility.

    On the other hand, it could have simply been a crass and thoughtless move on her part.

    Comment by Jenos The Deplorable — 2/28/2017 @ 2:16 pm

  27. There is no reason to sit that way, especially in a dress. My law firm colleagues would have been appalled to see that conduct by anyone associated with the firm. It is not professional and there is no reason to do it unless you want to get fired in a spectacular way.

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 3:08 pm

  28. I’m no professional, but I can see a reason to do so — to draw attention to an event that would otherwise be ignored by the anti-Trump press.

    Whether or not that was Conway’s intention I have no way of knowing. But I am willing to admit it as a possibility.
    You have said this twice now and I still can’t believe that you even said once.
    The Media not covering the event? While photographers are there? And a couple dozen members of congress?
    And you think it’ll be “ignored’ by the evil MSM, unless the intrepid KA Conway is there to the rescue?
    That’s a joke, right?
    Sometimes a cigar is a cigar, sometimes a crass operator acts crassly. Not all that is done is double secret 3D chess. It’s stupid, but it’s a mistake. Accept it for what it is.
    I know you followed it up with:
    On the other hand, it could have simply been a crass and thoughtless move on her part.
    But please, stop searching for intent. There is none. Not in this case.

    Comment by Tom M — 2/28/2017 @ 3:11 pm

  29. If there are special rules for politics that make that acceptable, then we shouldn’t call them leaders or professionals. They are attention-seekers.

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 3:12 pm

  30. For those who think this might be a media stunt, is there anything Trump, Conway or other Presidential advisers shouldn’t do? Does professional behavior and decency matter, or did Bill Clinton put a permanent end to that for both sides?

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 3:32 pm

  31. The fallacy of this attitude is that getting media attention is a way for Trump to enhance his poll numbers and popularity. It does nothing to implement an agenda. But maybe that’s Trump playing 3D chess, because he doesn’t want to do things. He just wants to have someone to blame. That’s what his strategy seems to be.

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 3:41 pm

  32. Go view the entire video. She is checking a photo she just contorted her position to take, before returning to a demure posture.

    Sorry, the rest of my comments are not genteel enough for this side of the curtain.

    Comment by Steven Malynn — 2/28/2017 @ 3:43 pm

  33. I understand that. Wby does that matter?

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 3:54 pm

  34. Did Trump fire the White House photographer and ask Conway to substitute? She should at least wear pants if she has to get in awkward positions to do her job.

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 3:55 pm

  35. https://www.2knowmyself.com/Attention_seeker_psychology/attention_seeking_behaviour_personality

    That reminds me of what my father said when people claimed they had to curse to express themselves. He said they needed to work on their vocabulary.

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 3:58 pm

  36. Oops, wrong quote. Here’s the quote I meant to copy:

    Sorry, the rest of my comments are not genteel enough for this side of the curtain.

    That reminds me of what my father said when people claimed they had to curse to express themselves. He said they needed to work on their vocabulary.

    Comment by DRJ — 2/28/2017 @ 4:01 pm

  37. Here you go, DRJ. John Astin cussing a blue streak and the worst word he uses is “suffragette”. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVb_pwi8JfI Skip to 1:10 if you want to avoid the spitting and belching contests.

    Comment by nk — 2/28/2017 @ 5:15 pm

  38. The biggest problem with what Conway did is what happens next. There is no way to get out of the position she is in without flashing some group in the room. That’s another reason this is such appalling conduct.

    Plus, advisers shouldn’t take personal photos in the Oval Office during photo ops. It makes them look like groupies — which they are with Trump –but have some pride. Don’t act like groupies even if you are.

    Comment by DRJ — 3/1/2017 @ 5:43 am

  39. This meeting with the Presidents of the HBCU announced the transfer of authority over the institutions from the Education Department to the White House.

    Comment by DRJ — 3/1/2017 @ 9:17 am

  40. And Trump said in his second Weekly Address that helping black education is one of his top priorities.

    Comment by DRJ — 3/1/2017 @ 9:20 am

  41. It seems like a big announcement. Too bad Conway overshadowed it.

    Comment by DRJ — 3/1/2017 @ 9:21 am

  42. Of course, maybe Trump got negative feedback from using his second Weekly Address to highlight Black History month and concern for black education, instead of education in general, so the Conway kerfluffle was planned to distract. If so, then Trump is playing 3D chess to distract his supporters, not the media.

    Comment by DRJ — 3/1/2017 @ 9:27 am

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