The Jury Talks Back


GOProud, RedState, and who I think the asshole is

Filed under: Uncategorized — Scott Jacobs @ 6:29 pm

First, let me save you some suspense. The assholes are RedState, specifically Erick Erickson, Moe Lane, and pretty much all of them.

Now here’s the “why”.

Erick is all bent out of shape that those dirty gheys didn’t just go to CPAC, but that Christopher Barron (GOProud board chairman) would have the audacity to speak up in GOProud’s defense.

(side note: Go read the comments there.  The last ones about closing comments were especially awesome. Poor, poor Erick.)

You see, he dared to call Cleta Mitchell what she is – a bigot.

It is Erick’s contention that only people who opposed DADT’s repeal and who don’t want gay couples to have anything resembling the rights of married couples, in addition to the list of other things a conservative should believe in, can be called a Conservative.

I suspect that Erick also doesn’t like libertarians.  Just a hunch.

Did Barron have some harsh words for Pawlenty when the latter said that he thought it would be ”reasonable” to rescind funds for implementing ”Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” repeal?

You bet he did, and good on him for having the courage to call out one of the beloved of the “We like people who can’t possibly win” club.

Look, assholes – I don’t give two fucks if you “approve” of the “gay lifestyle”. You aren’t being asked to live it, so it really isn’t any fucking concern of yours. They aren’t out there rapin’ everybody. They just want to live and work, and find someone who likes them. Maybe get some sex outta the deal.

How is any different from anybody else?

Many also would like the ability to have a recognized union with someone. Have some rights in probate court. Be able to make medical decisions for a loved one. Maybe get a tax break outta the deal.

Again, how is that different from anyone else?

Look, I’m long on record as being very much for civil unions. So long as you don’t use the “m” word, I’ll help you stump for votes.

Don’t think it should be a federal issue, mind you – it is and should remain an issue for each state to decide on their own.  But I’ll go to any state to help you get the vote out.

Apparently, that makes me “not good enough” for the likes of Erick Erickson.

To paraphrase a man: ‘Let me be fucking clear.”

Conservatives, Republicans, think very fucking carefully about how you act for the next 633 days. You have the choice as to whether the 6th of November 2012 looks like November 2nd 2010, or November 4th 2008.

Your actions will determine who the independents vote for. It is going to be your election to lose, and pulling that “No true Scotsman” bullshit is going to see you royally fucked.

Not that I give two shits. Your party is just as bad as the Democrats.  I haven’t voted FOR a Republican in nearly a decade. All I’ve been doing is voting against a Democrat.

So Erick, Moe, everyone at RedState?

Go fuck yourselves. You can keep your pure party.

I hope you enjoy returning to the minority, because that’s where you’ll end up if you keep this shit up.

[UPDATE BY PATTERICO: I disagree with the poster’s thesis that Erick Erickson, Moe Lane, and “pretty much all” of the people at Red State are “assholes.” In addition, I think Scott is over the top here, with the language especially. I don’t think it contributes to his point; on the contrary, it detracts from it.

However, while I will ask Scott to watch his language in the future, I am not going to censor or disappear this post. It is what it is. Somewhere under all the profanity, Scott has an argument. It is not the most informed argument, as it refers to a woman as a “he.” But in his own way, he is expressing a viewpoint that a segment out there agrees with, and I think it’s appropriate to have that viewpoint registered. I wouldn’t choose to have it expressed the way it has been. But the post has been up for a little while, and I’m not going to take it down — though I did think it appropriate to register my disagreement with the way it is expressed here. — Patterico]

[Further update by Scott – Awwww.  Did a couple of RedStaters e-mail ya, Patrick?

Jesus.  You miss one “s”, and all of a sudden you’re an uninformed boob.  “he” corrected to the proper “she”.]


  1. I’m sure you have plenty of useful information to offer about Cleta Mitchell and what “he” thinks.

    Comment by Crank — 2/12/2011 @ 7:20 pm

  2. I think both Red State and yourself are way out of line. I think Gabe said it best:

    I was definitely not pleased to see a quote in there of GOProud chairman Chris Barron calling a prominent conservative a “nasty bigot.” Because that’s what they do, the “Gay Taliban”, as Chris calls liberal gay activists. It’s the gay equivalent of a liberal yelling “racist” — an attempt to shame or shock another into silence. And that’s not supposed to be what we do.

    We need more tolerance on both sides. Barron, Mitchell and Erickson are all acting like young children. Add yourself to that list because you are no better.

    Comment by Dawnsblood — 2/12/2011 @ 9:00 pm

  3. Did neither of you see what I told ReStaters they could go do?

    Comment by Scott Jacobs — 2/13/2011 @ 2:30 am

  4. […] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Dan McLaughlin, Ablative Meatshield. Ablative Meatshield said: @ChrisRBarron Not my best work, I'm afraid… […]

    Pingback by Tweets that mention The Jury Talks Back » GOProud, RedState, and who I think the asshole is -- — 2/13/2011 @ 6:54 am

  5. Your party is just as bad as the Democrats. I haven’t voted FOR a Republican in nearly a decade. All I’ve been doing is voting against a Democrat.

    I’m amused that I have to cut the quote so the blog filter doesn’t eat my comment.

    Anyway, Scott, the GOP is not as bad as the democrats. It matters a lot that we all find a way to work together.

    There are a lot of people on Erick’s side of this who believe that certain gay-rights platform conservatives aren’t conservative. But the reason they think this is because they have defined conservative to include a set of values.

    And there are a lot of people who define conservative in a more strict sense, simply in reference to limited government.

    It isn’t bigoted to take the former view, that conservatism rests on certain family values, the definition of marriage, etc. And it’s not bigoted for someone who uses that logic to reject GOProud as part of their movement. That’s the opposite of prejudice. It’s still judgmental, but it’s informed judgment, based on reason.

    I don’t agree with Erick or the view I just defended, but I do realize this isn’t quite the same thing as excluding people in a bigoted manner.

    Excluding them in a bigoted manner would look more like someone who thinks conservatism is strictly about limited government, and excludes GOProud simply because they don’t like gays, and not because there’s any logical contradiction.

    It’s a subtle difference, and it’s made even more difficult because some of the people arguing the logical exclusion argument are insincere, and really do hate gays. Those guys are just smart bigots. But those guys are not the only people opposed to GOProud.

    Anyway, Scott, you’re right that we all do make some level of difference in our coalition’s ability to end the Obama Administration in 2012. This division is just one of so many potential heated divisions.

    As soon as we start to pigeonhole people as ‘just a nasty bigot’, ‘a bunch of a-holes’ we embrace a victim mentality. It’s completely counterproductive. It’s a shame GOProud went that route, because as I noted above, it’s actually not the case that opposition to GOProud’s agenda must be bigotry.

    I’m delighted GOProud was at CPAC, and I recognize them as conservative, even though I do not agree with their entire agenda.

    I think I should also add that Scott’s right to be really ticked off at Redstate, and I don’t really care that Redstate can’t take the heat.

    “GOProud was aligning itself with the AFL-CIO and the SEIU.” Click that link on Redstate and you see that it’s based on the lamest argument (that GOProud supports the Domestic Partner Benefits and Obligations Act, rather than making any effort to be aligned with SEIU. SEIU probably agrees with Erick on something, if you look hard enough).

    Redstate has a lot of dishonesty like that. I stopped reading them when they tried to get attention for a Will Folks story they simply made up (And teased like Will Folks does).

    All I’m saying is that there is a distinction between being a bigot and defining conservatism in a way that GOProud isn’t compatible with.

    Both houses need to lighten up.

    Comment by Dustin — 2/14/2011 @ 5:03 am

  6. Click that link on Redstate and you see that it’s based on the lamest argument (that GOProud supports the Domestic Partner Benefits and Obligations Act, rather than making any effort to be aligned with SEIU.

    Remind me what RedState’s position is on Palin…

    I ask, because Palin got Alaska to extend the same State Employee benefits to gay couples that straight couples enjoyed. If they support Palin, they support that notion, and thus are also aligned with the SEIU.

    RetState, in theory, has a lot of talented people there. In practice I find that I dislike pretty much the entire lot of them.

    Erick’s intellectual dishonesty is just one example of why.

    For the record, I believe that Cleta is one of those “smart bigots” (an oxymoron, if you ask me). I also think that Erick is one as well. Whether or not the rest are, I couldn’t say…

    I suspect not, but only because I don’t believe them as being all that smart.

    Comment by Scott Jacobs — 2/14/2011 @ 6:35 am

  7. Also, dude…

    Just post what you want, and let me know to check the filter. I have no problem releasing it from moderation. :)

    Comment by Scott Jacobs — 2/14/2011 @ 6:35 am

  8. I’m too vain to let my comments sit in the filter if I can just keep them out with self moderation!

    Anyway, I’m not going to pretend to know you’re wrong, that these aren’t ‘smart bigots’. And to be honest, I don’t pay attention Red State anymore, and have a hard time accurately defining their POV on anything. It’s not really them I’m talking about.

    There are a lot of dishonest people out there, who will use the good faith distinction I mentioned as a way to exercise bigotry. But there are also a lot of honest conservatives who really mean no bigotry against gays, and have this intellectual difference, which is judgmental but not prejudice.

    I followed your link to Red State, and didn’t finish it because I got tired of following links that Red State was not honest about.

    Anyway, we need to proactively avoid victim mentality, even if you don’t mean to put GOProud in that position. If it’s not proven that someone’s argument is prejudiced, we should avoid calling people bigot, or at least be guarded. You do this when you say you believe Cleta is being coy, and has bigotry underneath.

    Even that probably doesn’t help, electorally, but it’s not your responsibility to change your commentary just so we win more elections (kinda wish everyone would, though).

    I’ve begun to really appreciate Ann Coulter lately because of how well she handles this issue. She recognizes that marriage is about men and women, while embracing that the GOP is better off with gay rights activists who want to work with us on the more important issue of our nation’s debt. And I personally resent conservatives who aren’t embracing gay conservatives. It’s just bad strategy, and I think it’s also immoral. Even if gays are living in sin, I think we are supposed to realize everyone is living in sin and try to make the best of it.

    Right now, DADT or Gay marriage is so unimportant compared with foreign policy, our rights vs Obamacare, and the government spending. Making the best of it requires putting everything else aside.

    Great point RE: Palin, BTW.

    Comment by Dustin — 2/14/2011 @ 7:09 am

  9. I don’t know why the groups who boycotted boycotted, or what their actual beef with GOProud was.

    I *do* know that people who aren’t hooked into the conservative movement – and who get their news from the mainstream press – came away with the impression that the reason the groups withdrew was that it was unacceptable to them that openly gay people might be invited to speak at the conference.

    Which is to say that at the very least, the groups in question have a public relations problem.

    Comment by aphrael — 2/15/2011 @ 10:10 am

  10. Well, for at least one of the boycotters, I think that was the case.

    The others? No idea.

    I still say that RedState is run by complete fuckwits, however.

    Comment by Scott Jacobs — 2/15/2011 @ 10:28 am

  11. What Scott said. Maybe with fewer f- and s-bombs, but I totally understand his point. I (a totally straight dude) also happen to agree with it. Ideological purity be damned, I say.


    Comment by EdT. — 2/16/2011 @ 4:27 am

  12. yes. Very well said. Cleta Mitchell is a bigot Cap’n Ed can be dishonest about that if he wants but he’s an ovaltine-swilling anachronism.

    Comment by happyfeet — 2/22/2011 @ 6:29 am

  13. Ha! Scott, you rock! My new favorite conservative! (Sorry, Stranahan.)

    Comment by Feminazi Slut — 7/13/2012 @ 11:24 am

  14. […] boyfriend, Scott Jacobs (@AblativMeatshld mentioned above)  You’ll remember him, he’s the one who told everyone at RedState to “Go fuck yourselves!” because they didn’t agree with his very radical leftist perspective on homosexuality. Or […]

    Pingback by Check It Out: Breitbaren’ts Are Attacking Conservatives Again — 8/3/2012 @ 9:15 pm

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