The Jury Talks Back

7/28/2009

Laying To Rest The “Birth Certficate” Nonsense

Filed under: Uncategorized — WLS @ 11:27 am

Posted by Shipwreckedcrew:

Lets put this issue to rest once and for all.  Lou Dobbs please pay attention.

The State of Hawaii maintains a DATABASE of vital records concering births.  Currently, that DATABASE if populated with information provided on a form completed by the parents at the time the baby is born.  

The hospital issues a “Notice of Live Birth”, which is a TEMPORARY substitute for a official state record.

Upon written request — and payment of a fee — the State Department of Health will GENERATE a “Certificate of Live Birth” from the information in it’s database.

So, there is no “BIRTH CERTIFICATE” sitting in a file somewhere in Hawaii.  There is data regarding births in a computer database which is used to create such a document when one is requested.

Prior to 2001, Hawaii had paper files of birth records.  At that time, the information in those files was converted to electronic form, and those paper files were discarded.

If you want to know why they would have done that, all you need to do is go to the main office of the Hawaii DMV Division for Drivers’ licenses and look at the gigantic filing cabinets they still maintain with hundreds of thousands — maybe millions — of paper copies of old license applications they keep in alphabetical order.  It’s a joke watching the workers go look for some old record by pulling out a stack of documents and then hand searching them one by one.

30 Comments

  1. So, there is no “BIRTH CERTIFICATE” sitting in a file somewhere in Hawaii. There is data regarding births in a computer database which is used to create such a document when one is requested.

    Please stop spreading misinformation:

    Hawaii officials confirm Obama’s original birth certificate still exists

    Hawai’i’s Health Department confirmed yesterday that it has President Obama’s original Aug. 4, 1961, birth certificate in storage, but the announcement is unlikely to satisfy conspiracy theorists who insist Obama was born in Kenya.

    “We don’t destroy vital records,” Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo said. “That’s our whole job, to maintain and retain vital records.”

    The Health Department’s director reiterated yesterday that she has seen Obama’s birth records.

    * * *

    CNN’s Lou Dobbs last week demanded Obama’s original birth certificate. That was followed by CNN/U.S. President Jon Klein telling staffers of “Lou Dobbs Tonight” that the issue is a “dead” story, according to a Los Angeles Times report.

    In an e-mail, according to the Times, Klein wrote that CNN researchers had determined that Obama’s 1961 birth certificate no longer exists because Hawai’i officials had discarded paper documents in 2001 — a claim denied yesterday by Isle health officials.

    In 2001, Hawai’i’s paper documents were reproduced in electronic format but “any paper data prior to that still exists,” Health Department spokeswoman Okubo said.

    Comment by Northeast Elizabeth — 7/28/2009 @ 1:03 pm

  2. Another really good reason for electronic records of this type is the possibility of fire. For example, most Army records prior to 1946 were destroyed in a fire at the St. Louis National Personnel Records Center in 1973. This sucks if you want to get, say, a copy of a WW2 vet’s discharge papers.

    Comment by Kevin Murphy — 7/28/2009 @ 9:39 pm

  3. I find it so funny watching people help Obama hide his past from the public. If this were W, you’d have Kos making up documents. Wait a minute, the Kos Krew did make up fake documents for Obama, got caught, and admitted it. Now, why do you think people have had it with the obfuscations? Just make the documents public without reservation or weaseling.

    Also, you people never explain why Obama’s Kenyan relatives SWEAR he was born there. All people are asking this liar to do is come clean and satisfy the Constitutional Requirments, not shyster them.

    Comment by PCD — 7/29/2009 @ 9:27 am

  4. Also, you people never explain why Obama’s Kenyan relatives SWEAR he was born there.

    That’s because they haven’t.
    But please, don’t let reality encroach upon your elaborately crafted fantasy. I’m sure if you offer enough money, someone will eventually supply you with the story you want to hear. Maybe they’ll even throw in Michelle’s “whitey” tape at half price?!

    Comment by Bob Loblaw — 7/29/2009 @ 10:47 am

  5. Here is the evidence the birthers have been looking for!!!!!!!

    Comment by kaf — 7/29/2009 @ 8:38 pm

  6. Bob,

    http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Blogs/Message.aspx/3074

    http://thearizonasentinel.com/2009/07/07/obamas-grandmother-says-he-was-born-in-kenya/

    Comment by PCD — 7/30/2009 @ 6:21 am

  7. Taranto has a good post on this topic today: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204619004574320190095246658.html In particular, it also refutes WLS contention here that the original certificate was “discarded.” WLS, where did you read that the original doc was discarded?

    As I stated in an earlier thread, I think that even if the Birthers are right, there’s no practical recourse. But Taranto’s post shows that this issue is not as cut-and-dried as the PleaseShutUpBirthers and LayItToResters insist.

    Comment by gp — 7/30/2009 @ 1:01 pm

  8. PCD,
    I almost don’t know where to start.

    First off, as your second cite clearly notes, “Obama’s Kenyan relatives” have not sworn to anything – the sworn affadavits are from persons who spoke with Obama’s relatives (if you are feeling overly generous you might characterise it as an interview). As I previously asserted, none of Obama’s relatives have ever “sworn” he was born in Kenya.

    Secondly, both of the blog entries you cite only provide a portion of the story – the portion provided in Philip Berg’s dismissed lawsuit (“frivolous and not worthy of discussion”) against Barack Obama. As you might suspect, Mr. Berg only provides in his lawsuit such information as bolsters his erroneous claims, such as edited transcripts for the first 5 minutes of a 14 minute recorded conversation. I should note that the conversation itself was conducted through two translators (Sarah Obama speaks no English but some unknown amount of Swahili; Lao being her native language), and if you listen or read through the transcripts you’ll note that there is a great deal of confusion and mixed messages back and forth as you might expect from translated messages over a bad telephone connection. This exchange took place immediately following the portion of the conversation that Mr. Berg transcribed, (and which Mr. Berg of course did not include):

    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE (to McRae): No! Obama was not born in Mombasa! He was born in America!
    MCRAE: Wh-whereabouts, whereabouts was he born? I, I thought he was born in Kenya.
    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: No he was born in America, not in Mombasa.
    MCRAE: OK. Do you know whereabouts he was born?
    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: (Pause.) Huh?
    MCRAE: Do you know where he was born? I thought he was born in Kenya. I was gonna go by and see where he was born.
    (two male voices in background in foreign language speaking at the same time. Mrs. Obama or another woman in background.)
    VOICE (background): It was Hawaii.
    VOICE OF MRS. OBAMA OR ANOTHER WOMAN (background):
    Hawaii.
    BROTHER TOM (background): Hawaii, yeah?
    VOICE OF MRS. OBAMA OR ANOTHER WOMAN (background): Yeah.
    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE (background): Yes.
    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE (to McRae): Sir, she says he was born in Hawaii.
    MCRAE: OK.
    TRANSLATOR OGOMBE: Yeah, in 1960 this was Hawaii, where his father, his father was also marrying there. This was Hawaii.
    MCRAE: OK.

    Don’t trust me? The full taped conversation is available here (http://www.americasright.com/2008/11/sarah-obama-tapes.html – the site itself is sympathetic to your cause, but is itself sceptical of the claims being made of the tape as well as of the actors in the drama).

    Here (PDF file) is a full transcription of the recorded conversation (transcript starts on page 12). Extremely sceptical (and not at all likely to be sympathetic) analysis from which I quote:

    The full tape transcription makes clear that this phone conversation has not been represented accurately. There never was a statement by Sarah Obama at any point in this phone call saying or intending to say that Barack Obama Jr. was born in Kenya. Sarah Obama herself said that Obama was born in Hawaii and never said differently. There was a confusion over the meaning of where Mrs. Obama was “present” when Obama was born in Hawaii, but not over whether Obama was born in Hawaii. The Berg lawsuit affidavit transcript quotes a portion of the phone call in which, according to the Berg transcript, Sarah Obama answered that she was “present” when Obama was
    born (actually others speaking for Mrs. Obama, not Mrs. Obama, may have given that particular answer). But the Berg transcript omits the rest of the phone call which shows the sense intended was not that Barack Obama Jr. was born in Kenya, but rather that Mrs. Obama was present in Kenya when Barack Obama Jr. was born in Hawaii.

    Now I’ve clearly spent too much time on this by now (I actually listened to the full recording!), but perhaps in doing so I can help you move on with your life or at least pursue more promising avenues for removing the legitimate 44th President from office.

    Best of luck.

    Comment by Bob Loblaw — 7/30/2009 @ 5:39 pm

  9. No, Bob, you can keep your Obama Kool-aid. You keep dancing, but the base question unanswered is why you Democrats are doing anything and everything to obfuscate Obama’s past?

    Comment by PCD — 7/31/2009 @ 6:31 am

  10. Bob,

    It’s a conspiracy theory. There is no amount of evidence that will satisfy its adherents.

    -Fritz

    Comment by Fritz — 7/31/2009 @ 7:52 am

  11. I’m waiting for Bob to try to tell me Bush stole the 2000 and 2004 elections.

    Comment by PCD — 7/31/2009 @ 11:19 am

  12. Bob Loblaw : When you refer to Mrs. Obama are you refering to his mother or another person? I sincerely doubt that his mother was not present at his birth. Asto the question of birth – this is a non-issue. Barrack Obama is a “natural born ” citizen no matter where he was born – either in Hawaii or Kenya according to our laws. It requires, after all this time, an almost invincible ignorance to continue to believe that there is a “birth question.”

    Comment by Longwalker — 8/1/2009 @ 2:28 am

  13. Longwalker, review the Constitutional meaning of Natural Born. It involve being born on US Soil, whether it is territory or Armed Forces installation. Even the radical Democrats who wanted to disqualify McCain knew he had to be born on US Soil.

    Comment by PCD — 8/1/2009 @ 6:21 am

  14. PCD,

    Was John McCain really born on U.S. soil?

    Comment by Fritz — 8/1/2009 @ 8:33 am

  15. More details by Andy McCarthy: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZmJhMzlmZWFhOTQ3YjUxMDE2YWY4ZDMzZjZlYTVmZmU=

    WLS, where did you read that “those paper files were discarded”?

    Comment by gp — 8/1/2009 @ 10:51 am

  16. Fritz, McCain was born on the US Base in the Panama Canal zone BEFORE Carter gave the zone back to Panama.

    Want to try again Fritz? Maybe take the tinfoil off first.

    Comment by PCD — 8/1/2009 @ 11:12 am

  17. PCD,

    Was he? I think the evidence will show that he wasn’t born “on the base”, i.e., an Armed Forces installation. Let’s make it even more clear: John McCain wasn’t born on U.S. owned territory. He was born in Panama, off the U.S. controlled territory.

    So, what does natural born really mean, then?

    Comment by Fritz — 8/1/2009 @ 12:22 pm

  18. The Snopes article to which I refer regarding John McCain and the problem of “Natural Born” citizenship. McCain was born in 1936. It is also further evidence to support the notion that much of the steam behind the Birther movement can be chalked up to playing fast and loose with the facts, having a tenuous grasp of the relevant law (which is itself, the McCain situation being illustrative, a little murky), and not being particularly interested in really thinking out the question.

    Comment by Fritz — 8/1/2009 @ 12:29 pm

  19. Longwalker,
    The Mrs. Obama referred to in the transcript excerpt above is Sarah Obama, President Obama’s step-grandmother (at least as attested to in sworn affadavits from an African gentleman using a false name, and an American “street preacher”). Otherwise, please re-read my comment as you seem to have misinterpreted my intentions – i.e. I don’t disagree with your own assessment.

    (PCD, I have provided you a response that might be caught up in the site’s filters – confession: I occasionally use bad words!! I will await the comment’s likely inevitable release rather than repost at this time. I trust you will bear with me with your usual level of patience and decorum.)

    Comment by Bob Loblaw — 8/1/2009 @ 12:44 pm

  20. Interesting John McCain fact: he isn’t president.

    Comment by gp — 8/1/2009 @ 3:01 pm

  21. WLS will first studiously ignore the correction, to the point where it’s clear nothing will be done unless I bring it up repeatedly.

    Comment by gp — 8/1/2009 @ 8:34 pm

  22. Why Obama’s birth certificate issue won’t go away: Vanderbilt expert

    The controversy over President Obama’s birth certificate will not go away as long as he refuses to release sealed records, including the original birth certificate, according to Carol Swain, professor of political science and law at Vanderbilt University .

    “I believe that the president should end the speculation by being transparent about all aspects of his background,” Swain said. “In fact, it can be argued that the president belongs to the people and to scholars, biographers and others who are entitled to know every aspect of his past. Only great men can ascend to this height, and their lives should be examined and studied for the lessons they offer.” Swain said that what is posted online for the president is a certificate of live birth. “It is the failure to release the long form that keeps suspicion alive,” she said.

    Swain noted that she strongly disagrees with those who want to criticize Americans, including journalist Lou Dobbs, who continue to raise the issue. Other sealed records that Swain has called for the president to release include those pertaining to his education, foreign travel and state legislative business.

    Carol Swain is available for media interviews at carol.swain@vanderbilt.edu.

    Media contact: Ann Marie Deer Owens, 615-322-NEWSannmarie.owens@vanderbilt.edu

    http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/07/why-obamas-birth-certificate-issue-wont.html

    Comment by PCD — 8/2/2009 @ 9:10 am

  23. PCD : I graduated law school in 1979 and passed the New York Bar on my first try. Please tell me what scources you are referring to about the “Constitutional meaning?” I just happen to prefer to read the relevant statutes rather than “sources.” Whether he was born in Hawaii or Kenya, as long as his mother was an American citizen at the time of his birth, he is a “natural born citizen” according to our laws. So this whole “birth certificate” issue is the equivalent to “Bush and Cheney blew up the Twin Towers.” Same paronia but different people!

    Comment by Longwalker — 8/3/2009 @ 1:36 pm

  24. Longwalker, get your tuition back, being a liberal ambulance chaser has clouded you views. Even the Moonbat Democrats know that you have to be born on US Soil or US Military installation as McCain was.

    What you libs, especially Obama, are afraid of is Obama’s records coming out showing him to be a total and constant liar, and possibly ineligible to be President because he and his family played fast and loose with his citizenship.

    Comment by PCD — 8/4/2009 @ 7:33 am

  25. PCD,

    FYI: John McCain was born on a U.S. military institution a year before the law was passed making that good enough for natural born citizenship.

    Comment by Fritz — 8/4/2009 @ 9:34 am

  26. Fritz,

    The bottom line is that kooks like you were disgraced when they challenged McCain’s citizenship. You still looking to get even from that slapdown?

    Comment by PCD — 8/4/2009 @ 10:08 am

  27. PCD : Your mental telegraph is not working. I am 70 years old and have voted for conservatives in every national, state and local election since I reached voting age in 1960.

    I agree that Moonbat Democrats are as equally ignorant of the law as are the “Birthers.”

    However, the law is the law and I believe that my interpretation of the relevant statutes is correct. In fact I would expect that all eight sitting Supreme Court Justices would agree with me.

    The problem with the “Birthers” is that they are barking up the wrong tree. It is his other records that can provide evidence of the great gap between how he has been presented to the public and the reality of his life.

    When you chase after the “Birther” issue, you are being Brer Fox throwing Brer Rabbit into the brier patch. A real sucker.

    Comment by Longwalker — 8/4/2009 @ 10:13 am

  28. Longwalker, I agree that people should not stop making other arguments just to solely focus on the whether or not Obama was born in Kenya.

    But a lot of people just think the original birth certificate has something embarrassing about Obama that doesn’t impact eligibility, and think this is part of a great and general argument about how Obama has hidden so much about himself and the press has helped.

    If you think the birthers aren’t covering something you want covered, you should go out and cover it.

    Comment by Juan — 8/4/2009 @ 2:06 pm

  29. Juan : I suppose that you never read the Brer Rabbit story. Brer Fox had caught Brer Rabbit and wanted to kil him in the most horrible way he could think of. Every idea he came up with, Brer Rabbit would say ” Yes, Brer Fox, do that but PLEASE don’t throw me into the brier patch. Not being the sharpest knife in the drawer, Brer Fox finally threw Brer Rabbit into the briar patch. Brer Rabbit, born and raised in the brier patch was safe.

    The birth certificate issue is Obama’s “brier patch.” There is nothing there that could embarrass him so he wants people’s attention focused on the birth certificate and not on his other records : school, community organizer, property buyer, etc. where there may be damaging information. Al the time and effort wasted on trying to get him to release his birth certificate might be better spent looking at how he financed his education or on how he purchased his home.

    Comment by Longwalker — 8/4/2009 @ 2:43 pm

  30. I dont get it. Did the birth certificate issue stop someone from looking into Obama’s other records?

    I think it’s awful it did, but find that unlikely as hell. I doubt it’s doing any damage to the right, actually. But I understand the idea.

    Comment by Juan — 8/4/2009 @ 3:13 pm

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