Patterico's Pontifications

5/2/2013

Carney – Benghazi Happened A Long Time Ago

Filed under: General — JD @ 9:29 am

[Guest post by JD]

You really cannot make this stuff up.

As I noted last night, all along they have told us they have been investigating this matter, and it was too soon to discuss. Apparently there was a magic moment that it went from too early to discuss, to too old to matter. When coupled with Obama’s feigned ignorance in his presser, remember he is the most sophisticated consumer of information to ever occupy the White House, it seems abundantly clear that there is a lot more that has yet to be disclosed.

Toensing’s representation of survivors suggests that Rep Gowdy’s hearings might be a little more than interesting. I would suggest that they start the hearing asking all of Sharyl Atkisson’s questions that remain unanswered.

—JD

194 Responses to “Carney – Benghazi Happened A Long Time Ago”

  1. It happened a long time ago. 8 months. Yet they blame Bush, 5 years ago, daily.

    JD (b63a52)

  2. Being a bit redundant aren’t you? – your post should end after “all of Sharyl Akisson’s questions.” None have been answered so far.

    rfy (0e6466)

  3. asking about Benghazi is raaaaaaaicisssssss.

    besides, what difference does it make now? it was just a non-optimal bump in the road and all because of a YouTube movie…

    redc1c4 (403dff)

  4. Pearl Harbor, Yorktown, Gettysburg-ong time ago.

    Bugg (b32862)

  5. Toensing’s representation of survivors

    Maybe she can get farther with a Repub in charge of the committee like last time
    and hopefully her tacit approval of Holder previously was not because of something he and others hold over her still

    And hopefully she is just as tired as the rest of us with putting up with the nonsense and is in a better position to do something about it

    Please, dear Lord.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  6. Obfuscate, obstruct, stonewall. Wash, rinse, repeat.

    Then claim it’s time to move on.

    I believe I have a recipe book that spells it out.

    “The Chappaquiddick Cookbook.”

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  7. Let’s give Carney the credit he deserves. At least he didn’t call Benghazi a second rate burglary.

    ropelight (00e3cb)

  8. Yesterday is dead and gone
    And tomorrow out of sight
    And I want to eat my waffle
    Tell Michelle the butter’s lite

    nk (875f57)

  9. It is rich in irony that he claims it is being politicized, given Susan Rice and the blame it on a video nonsense.

    JD (32eeec)

  10. What he means is that it happened before Obama was reelected, so it’s completely irrelevant.

    And he’s mostly right.

    Amphipolis (d3e04f)

  11. There is a group of retired special operations types who have been working to bring the truth out about Benghazi via

    http://www.OPSECTeam.org

    Their latest Press Release follows:

    Press Release

    May 1, 2013

    Contact: Chad Kolton
    202-789-4365

    NEW WHISTLEBLOWER CLAIMS ON FAILURE TO USE AVAILABLE U.S. MILITARY ASSETS TO RESPOND TO BENGHAZI UNDERSCORES NEED FOR SELECT COMMITTEE

    WASHINGTON, D.C. — Scott Taylor, president of OPSEC, issued the following statement in response to new reporting about a whistleblower claiming that U.S. military assets were available but not ordered into use to protect Americans under attack in Benghazi:

    “The claims by a whistleblower reported on Fox News are further evidence for what OPSEC has been saying for months: U.S. military assets were available on September 11, 2012, and could have been deployed to Benghazi to try to save the lives of Americans under attack. This most recent corroboration of those facts underscores the need for a select committee to further investigate the lack of a response during the Benghazi attacks.

    “It’s been nearly eight months since the attack and subsequent investigations by 5 House committees. While many Members of Congress have commendably worked hard to get answers on the attack, the recent interim report on the investigations says nothing about the charges by this whistleblower which directly contradict sworn testimony by senior Obama Administration officials. And that same report announced no plans to even look into it.

    “That there even is a whistleblower no one has spoken to after eight months and five committees investigating is a condemnation of the process. The current investigations have relied on paper and not people with firsthand knowledge and they quite simply haven’t worked.

    “The statements and witnesses that need to be investigated cross the tidy boundaries of committee jurisdictions. The interim report demonstrates that they are not able to work effectively together to get real answers and compel truthful and consistent testimony. Yet these whistleblower charges make clear how critical that testimony is and how many answers we still need.

    “More than half of the majority in the House — and growing, even since the interim report — have come out in support of a select committee. It’s time to get it done. The families of those killed, which includes their extended family of Special Operations and Intelligence personnel and veterans, deserve, expect and demand no less.”

    ###

    They are a 501-c4 educational non-profit that is NOT tax deductible. Consider donating something to them. They are one of the few moving parts in the resistance to the administration’s coverup. Working in our favor is the fact that the survivors of Benghazi are themselves special ops and CIA, and presumably they will be a little harder to “silence” than your normal bureaucrat.

    And re: Carney’s explanation for Hillary’s email, if she isn’t responsible for what is sent out under her authority using her email account, who is? What does accountability mean in this new wonderland. What a joke.

    bobathome (c0c2b5)

  12. Bobathome – emails are tricky. What goes out under Hillary’s name is not Hillary’s responsibility. Now, her alias a counts are a different matter. Ask the EPA

    JD (32eeec)

  13. One would think the Scourge would give up hope the Truth will not out and somehow pass pardons all around before its tenure expires.

    All of its human assets are hostelled in urban America, a logistics nightmare when the EBT cards become worthless, the supermercados looted and bare, petrol stations vacant and empty and liquor stores burned to the ground.

    Vermin of the world, the end is nigh.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  14. Obama’s ace in the hole is that his base, The Rabble, have no idea what Benghazi is and have no interest.

    They do know he hangs with Hollywood and rap stars so he must be cool.

    Patricia (be0117)

  15. his base, The Rabble, have no idea what Benghazi is and have no interest

    Nah. They think Benghazi is a Bollywood star.

    Rob Crawford (c55962)

  16. I keep thinking about the bloodless body of Vince Foster in Fort Marcy Park … it’s important to remember that these guys play for keeps. I hope the Benghazi survivors are taking ample precautions. The Newspeak aspects of this administration are awesome examples of how bad things are already. Everyone has been held accountable, but some things are simply beyond accountable because it’s just so complex! Like reading and agreeing with your own email. Or, dare I say it, like reading ObamaCare legislation before voting for it.

    bobathome (c0c2b5)

  17. I keep thinking about the bloodless body of Vince Foster in Fort Marcy Park

    Oh good lord. There are plenty of legit criticisms of this situation that don’t involve conspiracy theories.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  18. 11. What does accountability mean in this new wonderland. What a joke.

    Comment by bobathome (c0c2b5) — 5/2/2013 @ 10:37 am

    “Accountability” in DC in 2013 means finding some underling who can be made a scapegoat.

    Further to your comments, everybody who has ever served in the military knows beyond a shadow of a doubt the Obama administration has been lying it’s a** off from the start. As stated in this classic post on Blackfive:

    “(The) basic principle is that you don’t deploy forces into harm’s way without knowing what’s going on; without having some real-time information about what’s taking place,” Panetta told Pentagon reporters. “And as a result of not having that kind of information, the commander who was on the ground in that area, Gen. Ham, Gen. Dempsey and I felt very strongly that we could not put forces at risk in that situation.”

    Of course, in the circles that I ran with, it will be forever labeled “The Dumbest S*** I Ever Heard Doctrine”.

    To be fair to Leon, however, his audience for this ridiculous statement was not members of the military and especially not for those in the Special Operations arena who immediately recognized that the entire statement is not a doctrine at all. It is horses***, nothing more.

    The “The Dumbest S*** I Ever Heard Doctrine” was targeted toward civilians. Read the doctrine carefully. On the surface it makes a case for Force Protection being an overriding element of critical decision making and it should be and it makes sense. The Secretary of Defense wants to ensure the safety of our troops and understands the value of “real-time information”. Okay, makes sense, good job Leon, end of story, right?

    A couple of points however need to be made.

    First. I am certain that Penetta realizes that we have very specially trained folks whose job it is to execute missions just like what was needed in Benghazi. On the other hand, maybe he didn’t, since both of the Generals who he supposedly consulted with have a grand total of ZERO days duty in any Special Operations organization. In fact, they are both old tankers. The senior of which, General Dempsy, has a Master’s degree in literature from Duke University, where he wrote a thesis on the Irish poet W B Yeats. He was a Captain then, and that thesis alone should have rendered him ineligible for promotion to field grade officer.

    Second, and this is very important. I don’t know what Penetta’s definition of “real-time information” is, but I suspect that, if Eisenhower had the same doctrine, we’d still be sitting in England waiting to invade Europe.

    Let’s review the real-time facts that we know so far. The entire event was being streamed live to the State Department and, in all likelihood, the White House situation room. That’s pretty “real-time” if you ask me, but it gets worse. Not only were we watching the entire damn thing on expensive televisions; we had at least two highly trained special operators on the ground in direct communication!

    Do you think the whole Pointe Du Hoc event would have happened during the D-Day attack if Ike and boys had two Navy SEALs telling them that the artillery had been moved?

    Maybe MacArthur should have cancelled the Inchon landings in Korea because having a live tv stream and two highly trained individuals on the ground just wasn’t quite enough “real-time information”?

    And this is why “The Dumbest S*** I Ever Heard Doctrine” is so ridiculous.

    The best “real-time information” possible is eyes on the objective.
    Even better is people on the objective with eyes on the enemy.
    Even better than that is people on the objective that are highly trained with years of special ops experience in direct communications.

    My God people, this was a perfect intelligence situation to execute a forced entry relief operation!

    I spent my youth (24 years) in Infantry and tier one Special Ops units and have been up to my ass is serious fighting on many occasions. In all that time, I never hit an objective where two Navy SEALs were already there and feeding me all the information I could ever want! Hell, that wouldn’t even be a raid, it would be a link-up!

    What more information do you need? Or was this never about information at all? Was it really the president deciding that the lives of four Americans wasn’t worth as much as a campaign talking point?

    In any case, this was not a military consideration made by Penetta or any Generals, it was purely political.

    And that pisses me off.

    The Obama administration wants people to believe the Benghazi situation had a degree of murkiness that compelled them not to respond. When in fact, if you’re going to respond it doesn’t get any better than this. In the sandbox we’d send regular Marine and Army infantry units to check out the rumor of a firefight with no more “intel” than a grid coordinate.

    Then there’s the excuse that no forces could respond “in time.” What the he** does that mean? Did the WH coordinate with Ansar al Sharia sufficiently to know exactly when the attack would end? And when it ended, what would the situation be? When things start to unravel, there’s no possible way to know just how far they’re going to unravel, or for how long.

    The SpecWar guy Fox interviewed mentioned Medevac. That’s one possibility. What about hostages?

    To refer to the Boston Marathon bombing, ship stain, also known as flash bang, was discovered in hiding one block outside the perimeter the police threw up. The fact of the matter being the more time you give people to move, the farther they get. So the important thing is not to give people that time.

    What this administration is saying with their excuse making is that they were willing to give these people that time. So had Ansar al Sharia or whatever affiliated groups captured hostages, you’d have been seeing videos of them getting their throats slit from Mali to Yemen.

    On the other hand, a competent administration (note how I am manfully avoiding labeling this administration as malicious) would recognize that the sooner they had forces in place the more likely they’d be to bottle up the attackers in Benghazi, reducing the search area.

    How anybody can buy what Obama is selling I don’t know.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  19. Oh good lord. There are plenty of legit criticisms of this situation that don’t involve conspiracy theories.

    Comment by carlitos (49ef9f) — 5/2/2013

    True, but there is at least the issue of trust. Every conspiracy theory that is wrong tends to cost the theorist credibility, but to some extent I also blame anyone in leadership who compromises the integrity of their office.

    Dustin (2da3a2)

  20. Yes, I read Blackfive for commentary on things like this and had seen that post when it was written. That was where I got the idea that the fellow on the roof (and later killed by a mortar shell) must have thought there was something in the air at the time capable of firing missiles or shells or something or else he would not have “painted the target” with a laser and give his own position away.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  21. In response to Carney’s statement, Dr. Krauthammer hits the nail squarely on the head,

    That’s the definition of chutzpah. This administration has stonewalled every inquiry and delayed its answers and not released names and told all kinds of stories is now saying, ‘Well, it’s an old story.'”

    He added, “I have argued from the beginning, the administration’s strategy has always been: string it out over time and count on the mainstream media being uninterested in the story. And that’s worked up until now … But I think they will not get away with it.”

    Dana (292dcf)

  22. Steve, I think you mean “Deceive, Inveigle, Obfuscate”, although it really wouldn’t take Mulder ans Scully to get to the bottom of this, if anyone really wanted to.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  23. I’ve always thought that there is an act of omission that would put Obama in danger of impeachment — something like having the forces in Benghazi but refusing to let them help for base political reasons.

    It just does not make sense to erect such a massive stonewall without something really bad behind it.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  24. I really hate these people. If you believe we should compromise with these people, you’re a part of the problem. We should never compromise with these thugs. They are the enemy.

    NJRob (fe68e7)

  25. Lastly,

    whenever anyone mentions slavery, Jim Crow, etc for reasons why our country is racist, evil, and the white man is to blame, just say that was A LONG TIME AGO.

    NJRob (fe68e7)

  26. I keep thinking about Sec. of Commerce Ron Brown who was scheduled to testify before a House committee in April 1996 but died in a plane crash prior to when he was to appear … it’s important to remember that these guys play for keeps. I hope the Benghazi survivors are taking ample precautions.

    bobathome (c0c2b5)

  27. Benghazi is just a bump in the road. I don’t doubt that Obama tried to cover up what happened, distract from it and now try to downplay and minimize it as “in the past”, but Benghazi really is tiny compared to Bush’s SIX embassy attacks, lying to Congress to begin war in Iraq and the bungling of pre-9/11 intel (which we just learned this week was many times worse than we knew).

    This is not a tit-for-tat, it’s more like you made your bed, now lie in it. When you hear complaints about Bush today, it’s not just because he committed these offenses, it’s because NOTHING WAS EVER DONE ABOUT IT. So why would you expect something is going to happen for much smaller things done by the next administration.

    When Nancy Pelosi took impeachment of Bush off the table, she decided that lying to Congress about WMD, torture and wiretaps were all forgivable offenses because it’s too unseemly to hold the Office of the President to account. These were trillion dollar mistakes. You didn’t complain then, you were happy, but it created this precedent that you now face, so own it. Four deaths compared to four thousand? Nothing will happen for this, it’s only a matter of how much the right wants to complain.

    Me, I’m consistent. I’d love to see Obama, Hillary (and especially Eric Holder) face investigations and consequences for “stuff”. But DC doesn’t work like that. If you haven’t learned from the MULTIPLE Bush scandals, with dozens of potentially impeachable offenses going completely unexamined with clear-cut evidence, then you are in a (right wing) bubble.

    This is a blip for Obama, even if those deaths may have been preventable in hindsight. In the moment, Panetta wrote them off by refusing to send in help, a “decision point” that ensured the losses would be limited.

    Carney’s excuse that this “is old” is the political way of saying “you have a valid point but the time for recourse is past”.

    So what is possible now? Patterico and Breitbart never wrote about the defunding of embassy security before – or after – Benghazi. If you guys really feel strongly about embassy security, say how much you want to boost spending on embassy security, lay out where the new revenue will come from, and explain the strategy for getting it through both Houses in an upcoming appropriation.

    This is like Clinton lying to investigators, majorities in the public saw it as negligible. Meanwhile the crimes of Reagan and Bush got papered over. The elite political fraternity writes it all off in the backrooms while they continue to pretend there is a vicious battle going on between the left and right. They want you to attack me now, to believe Obama is wrong for Benghazi but Bush was right for Iraq. And you will take the bait, starting with…

    Mahalia Cab (c5ecc8)

  28. Funny how the FBI just posted the pics (taken at the embassy attack) of the perps yesterday.

    Wonder how much BS the Stevens family can handle for the sake of Teh One.

    Patricia (be0117)

  29. True, but there is at least the issue of trust. Every conspiracy theory that is wrong tends to cost the theorist credibility, but to some extent I also blame anyone in leadership who compromises the integrity of their office.

    Well, that would seem to be all leaders everywhere.

    carlitos (49ef9f)

  30. Mahalia is a verbose imbecile.

    JD (32eeec)

  31. As i said on twitter:

    According to the whitehouse, Benghazi was a long time ago. The Bush presidency, on the other hand, ended yesterday.

    Btw, JD you totally need a twitter account. I could send you tips.

    Aaron "Worthing" Walker (23789b)

  32. 27. Me, I’m consistent.

    Comment by Mahalia Cab (c5ecc8) — 5/2/2013 @ 1:17 pm

    In exactly the same way Obama is transparent.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  33. Mahalia Cab IS consistent—consistently foolish.

    Elephant Stone (65a34b)

  34. Only 29% of Amerikkka believes armed conflict will be necessary, once again.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  35. This reminds me of a scene from Duck Soup
    Groucho: Now for the old business.
    Minister: I wish to discuss the Tariff!
    Groucho: No, we haven’t finished old business! No more old business? Then on to new business..
    Minister: About that Tariff…
    Groucho: No, that’s old business already!

    From Karl to Groucho, all in one administration.

    OmegaPaladin (f4a293)

  36. Mahalia, you are consistent. Consistently nuts. There have been no “impeachable offenses” by Bush unexamined. Utter and complete fabrication on your part.

    SPQR (768505)

  37. And SLAVERY was a recent phenomenon??

    Gus (694db4)

  38. Mahalia, Bush is not President. What’s the matter President Wonder Boy not living up to COMMUNITY ORGANIZER of the YEAR??
    You can run your pie hole all you wish about W.Bush. He isn’t President. Your boy is. And your boy is a lying crap weasel.

    Gus (694db4)

  39. Obama’s re-election is ancient history, too, judging by his polling numbers this month.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  40. What is really amazing is that Obama makes W look like an icon of competence. I would have bet serious money that would not happen.

    Kevin M (bf8ad7)

  41. It’s the old Carville dodge:
    Stone-wall an issue long enough, and then claim that the issue is “old news” and isn’t germane anymore.

    askeptic (6775e7)

  42. Benghazi is just a bump in the road

    Yes, those four bodies create quite a large “bump” in the road.
    What a disgusting moron you are MC.

    askeptic (6775e7)

  43. If you guys really feel strongly about embassy security, say how much you want to boost spending on embassy security

    Damn, the way the brain of a liberal works never ceases to amaze.

    To always think that money, money, money is at the root of what makes something good or bad — or a success or failure — interestingly and ironically enough, illustrates a peculiar form of greed that animates the left. So money, money, money — or a lack of such — is why a lame video posted to Youtube was long touted by the fools in the White House as the reason for the bloodletting at Benghazi?

    The following may seem OT, but to me it perfectly encapsulates the idiocy of the “money, money, money” mantra of liberals, be it as the reason for a lack of enough security at American embassies or — in general — the reason that left-leaning perceptions are not just a bunch of BS, they’re also a pathetic joke…

    cato.org: For decades critics of the public schools have been saying, “You can’t solve educational problems by throwing money at them.” The education establishment and its supporters have replied, “No one’s ever tried.” In Kansas City they did try. To improve the education of black students and encourage desegregation, a federal judge invited the Kansas City, Missouri, School District to come up with a cost-is-no-object educational plan and ordered local and state taxpayers to find the money to pay for it.

    Kansas City spent as much as $11,700 per pupil–more money per pupil, on a cost of living adjusted basis, than any other of the 280 largest districts in the country. The money bought higher teachers’ salaries, 15 new schools, and such amenities as an Olympic-sized swimming pool with an underwater viewing room, television and animation studios, a robotics lab, a 25-acre wildlife sanctuary, a zoo, a model United Nations with simultaneous translation capability, and field trips to Mexico and Senegal. The student-teacher ratio was 12 or 13 to 1, the lowest of any major school district in the country.

    The results were dismal. Test scores did not rise; the black-white gap did not diminish; and there was less, not greater, integration.

    Mark (695b11)

  44. Patterico and Breitbart never wrote about the defunding of embassy security before – or after – Benghazi. If you guys really feel strongly about embassy security, say how much you want to boost spending on embassy security, lay out where the new revenue will come from, and explain the strategy for getting it through both Houses in an upcoming appropriation.

    Lack of money had not one damn thing to do with the utter lack of security, and the active indifference to the requests from Benghazi.

    JD (b63a52)

  45. I’ve heard a rumor that Jay Carney actually used to have a soul — but that was a long time ago.

    Icy (fe58af)

  46. Gus said:
    “Mahalia, Bush is not President. What’s the matter President Wonder Boy not living up to COMMUNITY ORGANIZER of the YEAR??
    You can run your pie hole all you wish about W.Bush. He isn’t President. Your boy is. And your boy is a lying crap weasel.”

    “MY” boy – the guy I called to impeach? it is to laugh.

    For those who read my post with comprehension, Gus walked right into my prediction. Also, he has just declared a ban on criticism of Social Security and Medicare because even though they are FDR’s lasting legacy, he is no longer president.

    I guess the trillions owed for the Afghanistan and Iraq war are Obama’s fault. If you’re Gus….

    Mahalia Cab (cb3d51)

  47. Also, he has just declared a ban on criticism of Social Security and Medicare because even though they are FDR’s lasting legacy, he is no longer president.

    I guess the trillions owed for the Afghanistan and Iraq war are Obama’s fault. If you’re Gus….

    That is an impressive army of strawpeople that you just erected, and torched.

    90% income tax rates are good for the economy too.

    JD (b63a52)

  48. We have spent around 1.7-1.9 trillion in Iraq in 10 years Barack Obama’s first year in office produced a deficit of 1.4 trillion. Mahalia is breathless and wailing and gnashing her teeth and rending her garments over a number that will be a rounding error in comparison to the damage Barack Obama is doing. In short, Mahalia is an imbecile.

    JD (b63a52)

  49. Ms. Cab fails to recognize it took 0 dollars to secure the lives in question.

    All it took was the decision not to send them to Benghazi.

    Lots of governments didn’t send their people there. Such as the British. It is the decision to send them there without adequate security that requires investigation. Not the GOP budget (which didn’t effect embassy security at that time) no matter how much Ms. Cab’s feverswamp of an imagination tells her otherwise.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  50. Although there will be many deserving candidates, I hereby nominate Jay Carney for the “Baghdad Bob” award for 2013. Perhaps this site could run a poll toward the end of this year to choose the most deserving selection?

    Bar Sinister (b48c12)

  51. Comment by Kevin M (bf8ad7) — 5/2/2013 @ 12:09 pm

    It just does not make sense to erect such a massive stonewall without something really bad behind it.

    But the something really bad is willful stupidity of various kinds.

    There are alos probably lower ranking people who would really get hurt who have an interest in stonewalling questions.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  52. I think there was an awful lot of incredible stupidity, not a decesion to abandon poeople.

    One of the stupidities that night wass to believe what they were being told by Wanis al-Sharef, the Libyan deputy minister of the interior for eastern Libya. Or should that be Wanis el-Sharif?

    Or maybe, Wanees Sharif?

    Would you believe, Wanis al-Sharif?

    And the general Obama policy of never doing anything for yourself that somebody else can do.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  53. 52. …There are alos probably lower ranking people who would really get hurt who have an interest in stonewalling questions.

    Comment by Sammy Finkelman (d22d64) — 5/3/2013 @ 9:01 am

    The press tried that dodge in the Gosnell case.

    There are consequences that go along with being good Germans, Sammy.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  54. Now you have a few lies also, and misstatements after the fact, and how they happened.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  55. “it was a long time ago” refers to what happened in the aftermath.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  56. Good Allah

    JD (b63a52)

  57. That’s what I think Carney is referring to. The statements made in the aftermath.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  58. Carney says”Benghazi happened a long time ago” (compartoively speaking. And that they were not aware of anybody asking their lawyers be given a security clearance.

    He seems to be accusing the lawyer of lying.

    Says they could have talked to the accountability review board. And he is not aware of any agency blocking anyone who wants to testify before Congress.

    Could be people in the middle ranks of govt are lying

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  59. “And he is not aware of any agency blocking anyone who wants to testify before Congress.”

    Sammy – Obama also use the word blocking, but that was not the word(s) used in the question. The whistle blowers could be getting threatened and intimidated the heck out of, but Carney and Obama could still say legitimately nobody is actually blocking them.

    And that they were not aware of anybody asking their lawyers be given a security clearance.

    Is that the process Sammy? Are the whistle blowers supposed to identify themselves to their superiors well in advance of their testimony so that more pressure can be brought on them? Issa asked for the Government to inform the Committee of the procedures required for the lawyer to get clearance, not for the whistle blowers to step forward.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  60. I honestly think Jay Carney is going to melt down and have a public nervous breakdown right in the WH press room one day soon. Just look at his eyes. I am stunned his wife allows him to continue to do this job when he is so obviously both flailing and failing. Of course it would be even more dangerous for his health if he regularly had to face a reliably inquisitive and traditionally adversarial press corps.

    elissa (d7873a)

  61. elissa – They will just rotate in another liar from the media to cover Obama’s butt.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  62. Just look at his eyes. I am stunned his wife allows him to continue to do this job when he is so obviously both flailing and failing.

    Carney’s wife (Ms. Shipman) is probably every bit as much of an Obama-zealot and True Believer as Carney is. Either that, or maybe she hates her husband and wants him to be driven insane by the job. Either scenario is plausible.

    JVW (4826a9)

  63. We can all see the lies he tells us. Can you imagine the lies he tells himself?

    I honestly think Jay Carney is going to melt down and have a public nervous breakdown right in the WH press room one day soon. Just look at…

    Comment by elissa (d7873a) — 5/3/2013 @ 10:05 am

    I honestly hope so. That would indicate the remnant of a conscience.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  64. askeptic, if for people makes a bump in the road, what does a hundred thousand make? A molehill? Should we ask the goldstar moms if Benghazi is worse than out mission to find the WMD that Bush said were in Iraq?

    What’s “disgusting” is not that people are diminishing four dead in a terrorist attack, it’s diminishing that thousands of our soldiers are dead. The big difference is that Obama at worst took his eyes off the threat in one Libyan outpost and then tried to cover his ass. That’s the worst of it.

    So when we compare that to Bush’s Iraq team (Cheney, Rummy, Rice) going on TV and telling the American public WMD were found in Iraq, that Saddam means to use them on us, you don’t feel the slightest tinge of “disgust”? This is what needs to be put in perspective. As the CIC called for our troops to be shipped out into harms way where they immediately started losing limbs and lives looking in earnest for WMD, did you lower your eyes and eat a chicken sandwich, saying it was worth it to have tens of thousands of paraplegics come home?

    Now that the evidence shows Cheney and Tenet withheld the intel proving there were no WMD and they knew it from day one, do you feel “disgust” for the mounds and mounds of dead US soldiers – the hundreds of thousands of civilian Iraqi women and children killed in the crossfire?

    Only the four dead in Benghazi disgusts you, showing that you have no principle, just partisanship. To me, a human life is a human life, an American life is an American life. But to you, the dead that came under Obama’s watch are a big deal, and the troops that were doomed in OIF are justified, they knew what they were getting into, they were fighting for freedom and liberty and American values.

    Now that the evidence is public showing the CIA knew there were never any WMD and were trying to stop the White House from lying, you should be saying wow, Bush and his cabinet should be prosecuted because you can’t argue with evidence. But you are instead saying hey, let’s take this Benghazi think and see if we can milk it to get Obama censured or impeached, because there were FOUR DEAD. You are the exploiters, you didn’t give a sh|t about embassy security before this, did you?

    Ironically, the Benghazi attack is said to have come because we used enhanced interrogations on Libyan militants in that consulate site. This, according to Petraeus’ mistress, which suggests blowback from Bush’s policy to intentionally give up our moral high ground and start becoming just like them, kidnapping, rendering and torturing.

    We have to join the “dark side”, even though that’s exactly what bin Laden wanted, predicted and succeeded in doing.

    Mahalia Cab (e5c7a2)

  65. ==Ironically, the Benghazi attack is said to have come because we used enhanced interrogations on Libyan militants in that consulate site. This, according to Petraeus’ mistress,..==

    Can you provide the dates of those alleged interrogations of Libyans, Ms. Cab? I ask because I think I’ll want to check my calendar to see who was President of the United States on those dates.

    elissa (d7873a)

  66. “What’s “disgusting” is not that people are diminishing four dead in a terrorist attack, it’s diminishing that thousands of our soldiers are dead.”

    Mahalia – Who exactly do you believe is diminishing our soldiers?

    Are the efforts of our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan diminished by Obama’s policy of ignoring the spread of Al-Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood and lying to the American people about it?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  67. “Now that the evidence is public showing the CIA knew there were never any WMD and were trying to stop the White House from lying, you should be saying wow, Bush and his cabinet should be prosecuted because you can’t argue with evidence”

    Mahalia – Have you ever read the Congressional AUMF for Iraq?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  68. ==hey, let’s take this Benghazi think and see if we can milk it to get Obama censured or impeached, because there were FOUR DEAD. You are the exploiters, you didn’t give a sh|t about embassy security before this, did you?==

    Mahalia, your royal indignation would be more credible, I think, if you showed even the slightest interest or curiosity about what really happened in Benghazi that night. I believe that we the American people, as well as the State Department staff around the world (and their families) have every right and reason to expect that our consulates and embassies are secure and safe for employees. What happened in Benghazi proved beyond doubt that that was a false assumption. You’re damned tootin’ people are asking questions and you should be, too.

    elissa (d7873a)

  69. Well actually the interrogation of one Libyan, Abu Faraj Al Libi, brought us one step closer to Bin Laden, as he had lived in Abbotabad, for a time.

    narciso (3fec35)

  70. Mahalia dear, that sarin gas Assad is using on his people was Saddams.

    The World Order assessed Saddam for 500K Iraqi deaths and having stolen at least $10 Billion in ‘Oil for Food’.

    We know many would like to re-litigate the decade 1993-2003 but we’re talking here and now.

    Have a care.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  71. More of your lies, Mahalia. Lies debunked years ago.

    SPQR (5557ef)

  72. Mahalia – Have you ever read the Congressional AUMF for Iraq?

    No, but she memorized the talking points she learned on MSNBC and from Kos!

    JVW (4826a9)

  73. “No, but she memorized the talking points she learned on MSNBC and from Kos!”

    JVW – Mahalia never sticks around to defend her cowardly turd drops.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  74. Because she knows she can’t.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  75. denizens of Benghazi and Cyreniaca generally, directed by Hasady, were among the second largest contingent of jihadists in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    narciso (3fec35)

  76. Laser target designating was after my time, so I’m tentative here:
    An ex-SEAL was reported to have been lasing a target. I don’t think–being tentative here–youi’d bother lasing a target if you didn’t have somebody ready to shoot for you. Waste of time. Better off shooting actual bullets.
    So if the lasing report is correct, the guy probably thought there was somebody ready to drop the hammer. Possibly in contact with the shooter, aircraft, drone, chopper.
    Nothing happened.
    Like to hear that interchange.

    Richard Aubrey (6c93a4)

  77. Richard, it’s actually slightly more suspicious than you say, as it’s been well known for ages that using a digital camera (or a phone’s camera) will easily identify the targeting beam. If you paint a target, you are also painting a target on yourself.

    So it’s unwise to do that unless there’s a strike on the way.

    However, the real smoke to this fire is how the administration has behaved from the beginning. The hysterics over the video, with arrest, the ‘what’s the difference’ excuse when asked questions, the quarantine on information and witnesses, and a lot more than that. They are plainly hiding their entire decision process. We don’t even know where Obama was or what he was doing throughout the key points of this disaster.

    It blows my mind that this didn’t turn the election.

    Dustin (2da3a2)

  78. Comment by Richard Aubrey (6c93a4) — 5/3/2013 @ 12:51 pm

    Agreed, based on what I read from the special ops guys at blackfive and elsewhere. I’ve also read at the same sites where there is technology to track back the laser, so not only is one wasting time, but actually asking to be the target if nothing above comes through.
    I personally think this story is likely true and something that got out through one of the survivors before they were whisked away and told to shut up.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  79. Dustin, you beat me to it.
    If we had a responsible press it would have turned the election.
    Hopefully enough of the story will get out, with a willing press or not, in time to make the 2014 election an anti-obama landslide. I’m praying for such, or something better in God’s wisdom.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  80. Mark, you seem to not understand that one of the major Obama knocks is that he did not provide adequate security for the Benghazi consulate and that is why Americans got killed.

    But Congress had defunded embassy security, led by John Boehner, Paul Ryan and the deficit hawks who voted to spend trillions we didn’t have before O. Hussein got into the White House and suddenly wanted to pinch pennies out of embassy security.

    What this has to do with black schools in Kansas City is beyond me, but you can take a second chance at explaining what you are talking about, if you want to be understood. Are you upset that the black children got more funding? Did you think the swimming pool was going to raise test scores shomehow?

    Mahalia Cab (8f67b1)

  81. Hopefully enough of the story will get out, with a willing press or not, in time to make the 2014 election an anti-obama landslide.

    My friend, I wonder if many voters even care. Not only to I question whether they recognize the significance of losing an ambassador, I question whether they recognize the desperate valor men showed that night as our country let them down.

    They care about their Obamaphones and their ‘free’ health care and their food stamps and their 99 weeks of funemployment. They care that evil Republicans want to take away these free things all Americans are entitled to… just to fund a tax break for private jets (this is sarcasm).

    I’m praying for such, or something better in God’s wisdom.

    Me too. I wonder if in His wisdom he has us on a more challenging path. Does this country really deserve the gifts we’ve been given? No. We never did, either. We had all this prosperity and used to be grateful, humble, and at least moral to our families. Now most are rolling their eyes at Gosnell and flipping the page to drunk celebrities and other crap.

    Our culture has rotted. It began with education and media, and we let it get there.

    If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

    Solzhenitsyn

    Dustin (2da3a2)

  82. I personally think this story is likely true…

    I don’t know if it’s true or not. I wasn’t there.

    I do know this isn’t a desperation move, if it happened. In an emergency you need to be pulling triggers, not deploying a Ground Laser Target Designator.

    If it happened then there must have been an asset overhead. If there was no asset overhead, it didn’t happen.

    Guys like Doherty and Wood are professionals. They don’t d*** around.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  83. Mahalia, that’s absurd. It’s the Secretary of State who rejected a specific call for security. We also had quick reaction forces that were not used, despite obvious need and plenty of specific warning.

    This was an executive decision problem centered around saying Obama won the war on terror and Al Qaida was no more.

    The fact is that we actually do have some ridiculously overbuilt embassies that resemble palaces. Obama has quite a powerful military at his disposal and did not use it to protect people he deployed into harm’s way, much like Clinton failed in Somalia.

    It’s sickening that every time a democrat has truly failed, the democrat shill’s response is to just say ‘both sides messed up’, usually pointing to republicans not writing a blank check in every possible way they are asked to. That is so simple and frankly dishonest.

    Dustin (2da3a2)

  84. Is that from his 1978 speech at Harvard, Dustin,

    narciso (3fec35)

  85. Couple of points. Earliest hearing was shortly aftewards. Four lower-level people. The lady in charge of security said funding wasn’t the issue.
    There you go, Mahalia, and take your accusations of racism someplace else.
    I can’t imagine, unless it’s been destroyed, that there isn’t a recording of the SEAL talking to his air asset. And somebody’s going to be on the air telling him, sorry. Against orders.
    Which brings up the question of who’d obey orders not to shoot in a situation like that?

    Richard Aubrey (6c93a4)

  86. Which brings up the question of who’d obey orders not to shoot in a situation like that?

    That is a disturbing prospect, but I can see this being the case for some a drone pilot. Drones separate combatant from combat, which can create a different kind of ruthlessness. I would prefer drone pilots be (actual) combat veterans in military uniform, but I don’t think they are all even in the military at all.

    Dustin (2da3a2)

  87. 87. …I can’t imagine, unless it’s been destroyed, that there isn’t a recording of the SEAL talking to his air asset. And somebody’s going to be on the air telling him, sorry. Against orders.
    Which brings up the question of who’d obey orders not to shoot in a situation like that?

    Comment by Richard Aubrey (6c93a4) — 5/3/2013 @ 1:41 pm

    I highly doubt there’d be a recording of the conversation. I’ve never seen it done. At most you put the fact the conversation took place in the log.

    There’s just too much going on to record everything, even if you wanted to.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  88. saying it was worth it to have tens of thousands of paraplegics come home?

    Outright fabrication. Even going by some leftist estimations, there were around 1500 amputees as of JAN 13, which is the category this would most likely fall in, as there are no official numbers based on this type of injury. Total injuries number over 50,000.

    Mahalia whines that you cannot refute her “evidence”. I would argue that it is hard to refute unicorn farts, which are objectively more real than your “evidence”.

    JD (283b0e)

  89. But Congress had defunded embassy security, led by John Boehner, Paul Ryan and the deficit hawks who voted to spend trillions we didn’t have before O. Hussein got into the White House and suddenly wanted to pinch pennies out of embassy security.

    Outright fabrication, on multiple levels. Basic history informs us that Boehner and Ryan were not in charge prior to Obama becoming President. Basic history tells us that what happened at Benghazi had nothing to do with inadequate funding. You are brazenly dishonest, Mahalia.

    JD (283b0e)

  90. The talking points were first distributed to officials in the interagency vetting process at 6:52 p.m. on Friday. Less than an hour later, at 7:39 p.m., an individual identified in the House report only as a “senior State Department official” responded to raise “serious concerns” about the draft. That official, whom The Weekly Standard has confirmed was State Department spokesman Victoria Nuland, worried that members of Congress would use the talking points to criticize the State Department for “not paying attention to Agency warnings.”

    From the link I posted at 1:57pm.

    That’s called consciousness of guilt. Mahalia is blaming this on a lack of funding, and frankly the repetition of that talking point is simply dishonest. It also dishonors the memory of those who were sent into harms way by leaders whose reaction was focused on ass covering instead of truth.

    Do we really think the Obama administration would stonewall at every step if the problem was simply a lack of funding? This would be their favorite story, and they would want us to talk about it all the time, instead of cynically telling us it’s nothing to focus on as it happened months ago.

    Dustin (2da3a2)

  91. The fairy dust Mahalia is spewing is very codepinko and truth-outy.

    JD (283b0e)

  92. 93. ….Mahalia is blaming this on a lack of funding, and frankly the repetition of that talking point is simply dishonest.

    Comment by Dustin (2da3a2) — 5/3/2013 @ 2:04 pm

    Before you can blame Congress for not funding the security of these installations, first you have to look at whether or not state ever justified these installations to begin with. And with what? Truth or lies?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  93. Mahalia Cab sure likes to cling to long debunked lies.

    SPQR (768505)

  94. to SPQR on impeachment, Bush and his cabinet told Congress that WMD were found in Iraq, and meant to launch attacks on US interests, that they had ties to 9/11. Serious treasonous lies. The WMD claims were based on Curveball, who made everything up. The CIA knew this at the time and told the White House. The White House ignored this fact, and falsified graphics that made Curveball’s fairy tale about bio-weapons labs look real to the public, Congress and the UN. The facts are out now, if you look beyond Fox News and Breitbart.com for news and information.

    What’s more, Bush said he would never wiretap Americans without a warrant after he had already been doing it, in violation of the FISA law designed for judicial oversight over Presidents because of Nixon.

    Bush waterboarded detainees in violation of a treaty Ronald Reagan signed that banned the practice, taking strict moral high ground and legal bans against “intense pain, serious injury, impairment of bodily functions”.

    Let’s review – treason, eavesdropping, torture. There’s much more stuff too, like trashing emails to cover this up, but let’s just concentrate on the big stuff. Bush knew these were crimes because he hastily tried to get the laws changed after the fact. He tried to get his personal lawyer on the Supreme Court for f_çk’s sake.

    Bush, Cheney and others cannot travel to Canada, Switzerland, London, Russia and elsewhere because they will be arrested or protested because of international war crimes. I know you say Saddam was a bad guy so it’s all a wash, but you simply cannot lie to Congress, invade nations and get our soldiers killed, it’s against the law. If you think it’s ALL NECESSARY in the war on terror, under War Powers, executive privilege and state secrets, tell us why Obama does not get the same latitude for in covering up Benghazi.

    In fact, Obama is guilty of 27 of the same 35 impeachable offenses as Bush. This might get Gus upset, because he cannot fathom the idea that I can be even handed in calling for prosecution of both Obama and Bush, but leave him in his binary world for now.

    elissa at least admits it’s wrong to torture, she just wants to make sure Obama goes down for it, while we wait for her to chime in on Bush’s torture. I don’t have the dates, but I would be against torture whether it was before or after 1/21/09 because it’s immoral. A lot of what happened at Benghazi is unknown or not public, so I think we need to wait and see. But I wouldn’t support Obama or Susan Rice or Hillary if they did something illegal like you guys cover for Cheney and Bush.

    narciso, we could have had bin Laden years earlier if we didn’t torture. Rapport-based interrogations work better and faster, and even the Iraq study team acknowledges our torture helped them recruit, it gave us false confessions, made us waste time and cost lots of taxpayer money in legal settlements and litigation.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/06/torture-may-have-slowed-h_n_858642.html

    to gary, Saddam’s WMD were in part supplied by the Reagan Administration and his special envoy Donald Rumsfeld, then CEO of Monsanto Chemical. Saddam used them to genocide Iranians and Kurds with tacit approval of the Reagan administration. You’re also right about Saddam smuggling oil, but did you know he did this with Chevron at the same time Condi Rice was one of their top executives? Interesting points you raise.

    to Steve, bravo for seeing this after it’s too late. Did you call for evacuating Benghazi before the attack? No. Did the ambassador? No. Now can you use your prescience to predict where the next attack will be, because if you didn’t call to evacuate BEFOREHAND, you are simply a monday morning quarterback. There are better things to blame Obama for.

    “Who exactly do you believe is diminishing our soldiers” – anyone protecting Bush administration officials for sending troops to die on false pretenses. The Iraq AUMF stated specifically that Saddam had WMD and ties to 9/11, which they did not have. The main conditions in the AUMF were never met.

    To daleyrocks, the spread of al Qaeda happened precisely because we responded to 9/11 with an invasion of sovereign nations. War cannot be waged against an enemy unless you know who they are and where they are. Stupidly, we invaded Afghanistan and started a hot war with the Taliban, tribal druglords and random militants dug in for centuries.

    We invaded Iraq looking for WMD that weren’t there, causing tribal warlords in every region to put together an armed resistance. Aside from letting loose deathsquads to show we had no control there, they sat around waiting for our convoys to come and just blew them up one by one, putting videos of the attacks online to show how easy it was to kill Americans like sitting ducks. After a while, we would pay them to stop this in the “surge” (Sunni Awakening).

    The whole idea is that 9/11 was a criminal act, not a war. Bin Laden knew Bush would overreact. The Iraq Study Group confirmed we caused recruitment to skyrocket by occupying sovereign nations, causing mass casualties, arming roving mercenaries and because of highly publicized torture scandals like Abu Ghraib.

    But on a more basic level, bin Laden scared all you guys into changing your morality, changing the Constitution, giving up our precious civil liberties. I don’t think there was anything wrong with the Constitution before 9/11, I think the problem was our involvement in coups and propping up dictators in the Mid East, and the way Bush handled PDBs about al Qaeda.

    As far as blaming Obama for the spread of the Muslim Brotherhood, he actually supported Mubarak till the last second. What was he supposed to do, invade Cairo? Sanctions? Plant a puppet candidate in a democratic election? Withhold aid? Egypt knows they bought a lemon in Morsi. This is not Obama’s fault, this is an example of democracy being messy as Republican backseat drivers mistakenly think America can micromanage everything to our liking.

    If you want something REAL to blame Obama for instead of wasting time on Fast and Furious, Benghazi (and Egypt of all places), look at drone attacks killing thousands, look at his refusal to prosecute Wall Street criminals, his attack on our Constitutional right to trial, and look at the revolving door his administration has with the tax-evading industries they are supposed to regulate.

    Mahalia Cab (8f67b1)

  95. All of your claims were debunked long ago, Cab. You keep repeating stuff that was completely and utterly shown to be false over a decade ago.

    Why do you live in this bizarre fantasy world of yours?

    SPQR (768505)

  96. Truthout, Mahalia. Truthout.

    JD (283b0e)

  97. Lies in service of Mahalia’s narrative are just hunky dorey. It is breath-taking to watch in action.

    JD (283b0e)

  98. Anyone know where this troll gets her copy/paste job from? They’re insane talking points, but ones she obviously didn’t think up herself.

    NJRob (fe68e7)

  99. I thought it was a war for oil?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  100. ==A lot of what happened at Benghazi is unknown or not public, so I think we need to wait and see==

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha, Mahalia. Did you really have the gall to write that? On this thread, yet? With the “most transparent administration in history” in office, now how is it possible that so much of what happened is “unknown” or “not public”?

    elissa (d7873a)

  101. It’s Huff Po, Truth Dig ‘seasoned with media matters.

    narciso (3fec35)

  102. JD, did you miss the Jason Chaffetz admission on TV saying he absolutely voted to defund embassy security? Those votes were held in 2012 and 2011 so Boehner was in charge of the House and there was nothing brazenly fabricated about anything I said readers can see it all here:

    “In 2011 they came in and passed a continuing resolution for the remainder of that fiscal year. The House proposed $70 million cut in the WSP and they proposed a $204 million cut in Embassy security,” says Mr. Lilly. “Then the next year, fiscal 2012, they cut worldwide security by $145 million and embassy security by $376 million. This year’s bill is the same thing all over again. The House has cut the worldwide security budget $149 million below the request.”

    Dustin, I’m not saying both sides messed up so let’s no do anything about it, I’m saying both sides messed up, let’s prosecute, impeach them all. The problem is there is no crimes in a Benghazi cover up, it would be censure at best, while you are ignoring assassinations, renditions and shielding widespread corporate fraud that better indicate direliction of duty. YOU guys are the ones being selective, ignoring every crime Obama has done that Bush also did because you are painted into a corner.

    Try admitting treason is a crime, it’s cathartic…imagine if Obama lied to Congress about Syria having used sarin, and sent our troops in there and they got ambushed by the truckload. Would you be tempted to prosecute?

    To JD, I was wrong to assume tens of thousands of paraplegics if we only count US troops, but counting the Afghans and Iraqis, there is no question it’s in the tens of thousands. One good point there.

    To SPQR, back up your claims – you were debunked, not me – these are important facts. You know Curveball lied, so how did the Bush SOTU get written if the CIA and BND debunked Curveball at the time? A lot is riding on this, let’s get it right…I’ll admit I’m wrong if you can explain how those CIA/BND got lost on the way to Congress. They said the witness was lying and Iraq had no WMD. How did that happen that the President said they did? Give your explanation.

    Mahalia Cab (8f67b1)

  103. Mahalia Cab, a bipartisan report by the Select committee on intelligence debunked you a decade ago. You need to quit smoking that ganja.

    SPQR (768505)

  104. By Mahalia’s logic, President Gutsy Call killing Osama bin Laden and spiking the football created more terrorists than George Bush.

    Plus his ongoing drone war in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and elsewhere, air raiding innocent women and children generates an ongoing supply of jihadists. Heckuva job Barcky!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  105. Anyone who poo poohs Fast and Furious as not being worth looking into, or pretends it was not an evil and illegal operation for which this administration must ultimately be blamed and held accountable, is simply not a person whose opinions on any other subject can be taken seriously.

    elissa (d7873a)

  106. Mahalia, have you eaten today? You seem a little grumpy.

    elissa (d7873a)

  107. It’s striking how Obama is still using the ‘Fast and Furious’ cover story, more distressing is Pena Nieto is allowing him, to get away with this undeclared proxy war on Mexico.

    narciso (3fec35)

  108. Mahalia – congrats, that was brilliant. You proved a point that neither you, nor I had made. Wow. Regardless, and despite your running around with the goalposts, it really does not matter. Lack of funds have nothing to do with Benghazi.

    JD (283b0e)

  109. Narcisco – how did his head not assplode?

    JD (283b0e)

  110. Narciso, that Weekly Standard story that Dustin linked above is breathtaking in its exposure and documentation of the administration’s intentional lies and malfeasance from the earliest hours of the Benghazi cover-up and beyond.

    And the president’s speech in Mexico which you reference @111 just puts the icing on the cake of the F&F outrage as far as I am concerned. Does POTUS even know that his agencies’ F&F operation facilitated the smuggle of deadly guns into Mexico? If he does, how could he make that statement with a straight face. Does he even know that a huge part of the drug violence to which he refers and blames the United States for involves criminal gangs with free access back and forth across the Mexican border because we seem to have no control whatsoever over who enters the country–and he refuses to allow enforcement of our existing immigration laws?

    elissa (d7873a)

  111. Of course he knows, it is part of the cover story, to make the facts, match ‘the narrative’ going back to the spring of 2009.

    narciso (3fec35)

  112. 91. The Dhimmis had better hope they never lose the reins cause it will be very bad for them.

    The suck you feel is that of a perfect vacuum.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  113. 97. “to gary, Saddam’s WMD were in part supplied by the Reagan Administration and his special envoy Donald Rumsfeld, then CEO of Monsanto Chemical. Saddam used them to genocide Iranians and Kurds with tacit approval of the Reagan administration. You’re also right about Saddam smuggling oil, but did you know he did this with Chevron at the same time Condi Rice was one of their top executives? Interesting points you raise.”

    Jared Loughner? Jan. 24 2003, the Israelis notified us Russian engineers were shipping chemical agents by rail to Syria. An early find at an airfield west of Tikrit was a bunker with 500 55 gallon drums of cyclosarin. The Lamestream labelled it ‘insecticide’.

    I prescribe Thoazine

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  114. Mahalia Cab, since your monniker elicits one to think of a taxi driver, I’m guessing you look like Danny DeVito, and talk like Christopher Lloyd.
    But you probably don’t box like Tony Danza.

    Yeah, and I am talkin’ to you.

    Ha, ha, ha.

    Elephant Stone (a59d01)

  115. The whole idea is that 9/11 was a criminal act, not a war. Bin Laden knew Bush would overreact.

    Three thousand die, and to Mahalia that is just “a criminal act.” With 2,500 dead at Pearl Harbor, I guess that too was “a criminal act.” Silly us, actually going to war over it when we should have just hauled the Empire of Japan into court.

    Why does Mahalia’s callous quote remind me so much of Stalin’s infamous quip that “one death is a tragedy; a thousand deaths is a statistic”?

    JVW (4826a9)

  116. Tojo and Hitler knew that Roosevelt would overreact.

    JVW (4826a9)

  117. Mahalia is trolling y’all into defensiveness. It’s willing to say 9/11 wasn’t an act of war and that the unanimity of America’s reaction to this atrocity was an overreaction.

    There is no reason to take such a character seriously, or let them suck the oxygen out of an adult conversation.

    It does seem that the Clintonian focus away from the realities of the world, which led to a nuclear North Korea and 9/11 (among other atrocities) is again being forced by democrats. 9/11/2012 was a result. That’s the root of what went wrong and why the administration now says this is old news after asking what difference the truth makes.

    Let them eat cake and Obamaphones.

    Dustin (2da3a2)

  118. Bin Laden knew Bush would overreact.

    How did Bin Laden know Bush would be president when he planned 9/11 in the late 1990s of the Clinton administration?

    Dustin (2da3a2)

  119. “How did Bin Laden know Bush would be president when he planned 9/11 in the late 1990s of the Clinton administration?”

    Dustin – Mahalia also needs to remember that Clinton knew Saddam had WMD and called for regime change in Iraq, but progs don’t like to talk about that.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  120. Most here didn’t really cotton to the Libyan intervention, then again, if you’re going to go to all that trouble, one would think you would protect
    the lead US representative of that operation, and support the regime, that arose from it,

    narciso (3fec35)

  121. There is no reason to take such a character seriously, or let them suck the oxygen out of an adult conversation.

    The problem is, Dustin, that crazy lefties like Mahalia surround themselves with like-minded people who emphatically agree with their nonsense. She’s welcome to do that, but when she comes here she needs to suspect that her idiocy will be challenged and vigorously refuted by people who don’t live in her little lefty fairytale land. It’s easy to say “just ignore her,” but doing so only gives her the idea that we lack the intellectual wherewithal to oppose her stupidity.

    JVW (4826a9)

  122. If it happened then there must have been an asset overhead. If there was no asset overhead, it didn’t happen.
    Comment by Steve57 (da9e0e) — 5/3/2013 @ 1:24 pm

    I agree, which is why I think there was an asset overhead that didn’t fire. I think the story from an observer/survivor was that they saw/knew the guy was using a laser to paint a target. They didn’t know anything else, it may have even been a non-military person who didn’t realize all of the implications.
    Maybe the source of the story was mistaken, but given the amount of smoke put out to obscure things, I think it very possible that some of the early things that slipped out were real. Who would have come out with a fake story about painting a target with a laser?
    As far as who didn’t pull the trigger? I’m, guessing someone who was told that Gen so-and-so is ordering to stand down on the order of the president, and don’t speak about it or you will be up for court martial for disobeying orders.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  123. 113.Narcisco – how did his head not assplode?
    Comment by JD (283b0e) — 5/3/2013 @ 4:28 pm

    Practice, lots of practice.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  124. Comment by Dustin (2da3a2) — 5/3/2013 @ 1:19 pm

    Certainly many people have been dumbed down in being more interested in entertainment and gadgets that do the entertaining than thinking seriously. As has been said, one can survive and even enjoy life in our culture without much thought and effort if your aspirations are low enough.

    Then a lot of people who do care are the types who are busy living their own lives, not going into politics and agencies to tell someone else how to run theirs.

    Then there are those who are fed up with trying to sort it all out who throw their hands up and also go about trying to take care of their own business.

    Some simple, basic, and important things need to be communicated clearly and enough people will catch on. In one way I think it is crazy that John “Winter Soldier” Kerry was anywhere near getting to be president, but then again, given how much the press let him slide and give him a 5-15% edge or whatever as the one media person said, it’s clear that enough Americans had the sense to see him for what he was.

    If anything, I think just how far out Obama is has helped him. No one wants to believe they have a president who is pals with domestic terrorists, it is just too far out there.
    But give a real time terrible blunder, and a bunch of military and others who are furious at what they’ve seen happen, and congressional hearings with people protected by whistleblower status, then there might be enough things clear to make a difference.
    But whether that will lead to substantial ongoing change in a good direction or simply a momentary upswing in a downward trajectory is beyond me.
    Yes, evil exists in the heart of everyman, but evil can only be faced by those willing to recognize that and call it for what it is.
    Courage is chief among the virtues.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  125. . It’s easy to say “just ignore her,” but doing so only gives her the idea that we lack the intellectual wherewithal to oppose her stupidity.

    Comment by JVW (4826a9) — 5/3/2013

    I suppose. I was being a hypocrite anyway.

    Comment by MD in Philly (3d3f72) — 5/3/2013 @ 7:46 pm

    Amazing comment. I have nothing to add.

    Dustin (2da3a2)

  126. 97. …to Steve, bravo for seeing this after it’s too late. Did you call for evacuating Benghazi before the attack? No. Did the ambassador? No. Now can you use your prescience to predict where the next attack will be, because if you didn’t call to evacuate BEFOREHAND, you are simply a monday morning quarterback. There are better things to blame Obama for.

    Also known as “when Mahalia Cab descends into sheer lunacy.”

    Mahalia, hon, had I been anywhere in the decision loop and called for the Benghazi diplomatic facility to be closed, you wouldn’t know about it. Because I wouldn’t have done it on a comment thread on a blog.

    You know what call I didn’t make, chica? I didn’t make the call to beef up security with a Marine detachment or whatever island in the Caribbean this malicious administration sent them to on 9/11/2012.

    But back to Benghazi, it required no “prescience” to decide to close it. Lots of other countries closed their diplomatic facilities in Benghazi to avoid exactly the type of trouble we received. This wasn’t exactly a hard call, little girl.

    In other news, the fog of war wasn’t so foggy, the facts weren’t so blurry, the decisions weren’t so hard, and the means of execution weren’t nearly so remote as this traitorous administration wishes against all fact and reason for you to believe.

    http://www.weeklystandard.com/articles/benghazi-talking-points_720543.html#

    The Benghazi Talking Points
    ADVANCE ARTICLE from the May 13, 2013 issue.

    Even as the White House strove last week to move beyond questions about the Benghazi attacks of Tuesday, September 11, 2012, fresh evidence emerged that senior Obama administration officials knowingly misled the country about what had happened in the days following the assaults. The Weekly Standard has obtained a timeline briefed by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence detailing the heavy substantive revisions made to the CIA’s talking points, just six weeks before the 2012 presidential election, and additional information about why the changes were made and by whom.

    …The exchange of emails is laid out in a 43-page report from the chairmen of five committees in the House of Representatives. Although the investigation was conducted by Republicans, leading some reporters and commentators to dismiss it, the report quotes directly from emails between top administration and intelligence officials, and it includes footnotes indicating the times the messages were sent. In some cases, the report did not provide the names of the senders, but The Weekly Standard has confirmed the identities of the authors of two critical emails—one indicating the main reason for the changes and the other announcing that the talking points would receive their final substantive rewrite at a meeting of top administration officials on Saturday, September 15.

    …A cable sent the following day, September 12, by the CIA station chief in Libya, reported that eyewitnesses confirmed the participation of Islamic militants and made clear that U.S. facilities in Benghazi had come under terrorist attack. It was this fact, along with several others, that top Obama officials would work so hard to obscure.

    …After a briefing on Capitol Hill by CIA director David Petraeus, Democrat Dutch Ruppersburger, the ranking member of the House Intelligence Committee, asked the intelligence community for unclassified guidance on what members of Congress could say in their public comments on the attacks. The CIA’s Office of Terrorism Analysis prepared the first draft of a response to the congressman, which was distributed internally for comment at 11:15 a.m. on Friday, September 14 (Version 1 at right).

    …After the internal distribution, CIA officials amended that draft to include more information about the jihadist threat in both Egypt and Libya. “On 10 September we warned of social media reports calling for a demonstration in front of the [Cairo] Embassy and that jihadists were threatening to break into the Embassy,” the agency had added by late afternoon. And: “The Agency has produced numerous pieces on the threat of extremists linked to al Qaeda in Benghazi and Libya.” But elsewhere, CIA officials pulled back. The reference to “Islamic extremists” no longer specified “Islamic extremists with ties to al Qaeda,” and the initial reference to “attacks” in Benghazi was changed to “demonstrations.”

    The talking points were first distributed to officials in the interagency vetting process at 6:52 p.m. on Friday. Less than an hour later, at 7:39 p.m., an individual identified in the House report only as a “senior State Department official” responded to raise “serious concerns” about the draft. That official, whom The Weekly Standard has confirmed was State Department spokesman Victoria Nuland, worried that members of Congress would use the talking points to criticize the State Department for “not paying attention to Agency warnings.”

    …“White House officials responded by stating that the State Department’s concerns would have to be taken into account.” One official—Ben Rhodes, The Weekly Standard is told, a top adviser to President Obama on national security and foreign policy—further advised the group that the issues would be resolved in a meeting of top administration officials the following morning at the White House.

    …Gone were the reference to “Islamic extremists,” the reminders of agency warnings about al Qaeda in Libya, the reference to “jihadists” in Cairo, the mention of possible surveillance of the facility in Benghazi, and the report of five previous attacks on foreign interests.

    What remained—and would be included in the final version of the talking points—was mostly boilerplate about ongoing investigations and working with the Libyan government…

    …The CIA had softened “attack” to “demonstration.” But as soon became clear, there had been no demonstration in Benghazi.

    More troubling was the YouTube video. Rice would spend much time on the Sunday talk shows pointing to this video as the trigger of the chaos in Benghazi.

    …It was a preview of the administration’s defense of its claims on Ben­ghazi. After pushing the intelligence community to revise its talking points to fit the administration’s preferred narrative, administration officials would point fingers at the intelligence community when parts of that narrative were shown to be misleading or simply untrue.

    This administration has it’s collective head firmly implanted in this colon if it didn’t think the truth would get out. If anyone is interested you can go back to comment threads immediately after the attack and I’ve been saying all along that:

    -The Cairo demonstration was not over a YouTube video. In the article the CIA references jihadist chatter on social media. But the regular media published the details ahead of time as well. And I’ve provided samples. The radical groups announced, in advance, their intention to hold a protest in Cairo, and that the protest was over detainees in GITMO and elsewhere in the US. Particularly they were interested in the Blind Sheikh, Abdel Rahman. It was NOT about a video. This was no secret. And as I knew for a fact, the CIA (and other intel agencies including I might add the DoS’s own Bureau of Intelligence and Research) knew it as well. Which is why I knew they were lying from the start.

    – Eyewitnesses. Key word. This happened in downtown Benghazi. There was never any way the administration was going to keep a lid on this story.

    – There was no demonstration. DoS’s own timeline confirmed that. I’ve mentioned several times in the past that a surgeon from Massachusetts General Hospital was in Benghazi to assist doctors and administrators at the Benghazi Medical Center, and was also blogging from there.

    http://www.massgeneral.org/emergencymedicine/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=3729

    oday is a tragic day for Americans and Libyans alike. All over the world our hearts ache for the loss of our U.S. ambassador, Christopher Stevens, and those who died at his side last evening. Our courageous Ambassador held a unique passion and hope for all of Libya but especially Benghazi. Our ambassador was beloved by the people of Benghazi.

    This is my second trip to Benghazi; the first one was in late May. My close colleague and friend, Dr. Stephen Bohan and I have been working with the leaders of the Benghazi Medical Center (BMC). BMC director general and hematologist, Dr. Fathi al Jehani, and chief medical officer and obstetrician /gynecologist (and human rights leader), Dr. Laila Bugaighis, are hoping that the Massachusetts General Hospital (MGH) can assist them with two critical areas of need; training in leadership and management skills, and establishment of the country’s first modern emergency department and pre-hospital care system. I can tell you first hand, the people of Benghazi are absolutely lovely – kind, generous and curious. However, they are just barely emerging from 42 years of brutal rule.

    The good doctor was on the phone with an official at the Benghazi diplomatic facility. They were discussing an event at BMC scheduled for the next day when the attack commenced. The doctor heard an explosion both over the phone and from his window because BMC just isn’t that far from the US diplomatic compound. Had there been a protest prior to the attack the personnel at the diplomatic facility would not have been sitting around discussing the next day’s schedule. Especially given the events of that day throughout the region. This is not speculation on my part.

    Furthermore the guards reported all quiet outside the facility prior to the attack.

    – The administration instructed the intel community to rewrite its talking points to conform to its preferred narrative in the run-up to an election, then blamed its public narrative on the intel community. Did they seriously think the spooks were going to let them get away with this? I was in the military and people subject to the UCMJ don’t push back when an administration scapegoats them. But careerists at the intel agencies in the DC area sure do.

    I’ve gone on long enough. There are so many angles I could attack this administration’s Benghazi fable from the mind boggles. It’s been a lie from the start, and what’s more everyone who has ever been in the military (well, not everyone if you were so incompetent you were assigned to handing out towels at the rec center) knew it from the start. Listening to this administration make excuses is like listening to some 16 year old trying to explain it was mechanical failure that caused him to drive the car into the living room to his dad the engineer at Ford. It’s not just a lie. It’s a transparent, low quality, intelligence insulting lie.

    When it comes out that other western nations had special forces in Benghazi and we didn’t ask them for help this administration will be ****ed three ways from Sunday. Because that request can only come from one guy. The guy who’s been lying to us from the start:

    “If people don’t think that we did everything we can to make sure that we save the lives of folks who I sent there, and who are carrying out missions on behalf of the United States, then you don’t know how our Defense Department thinks or our State Department things or our CIA thinks. Their number one priority is obviously to protect American lives. That’s what our job is,” President Obama said about the attack in Benghazi.

    “I can tell you that immediately upon finding out that our folks were in danger, that my orders to my national security team were, do whatever we need to do to make sure they’re safe. And that’s the same order I would give any time that I see Americans are in danger, whether they are civilian or military,” Obama added

    See what Obama tries to do? Spread the blame. But DoD, DoS, and CIA can only do so much. Sooner or later “President Gusty Call” (anyway the wind blows…) needs to weigh in. Panetta has a lot of faults and deserves blame for many things, but the bottom line is he can’t be the one to call the Prime Minister of a European nation and ask that PM to commit his or her nation’s forces to a firefight on our behalf. Like CBA, he isn’t invested with that authority.

    This administration is as transparent as Mahalia Cab is consistent. And everyone knows it. Particularly the people they first convinced to go along with their program, and then tried to blame for coming up with the program. What the he** were they thinking?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  127. *I didn’t make the call to beef up security with a Marine detachment or on whatever island in the Caribbean*

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  128. Oh, forgot to add that DoS has sets of security standards, depending on the facility (an entire building, an office they’re renting in a commercial office building, etc.) Deviations from those standards require the Secretary’s personal authorization. The secretary can’t delegate that authority. The Benghazi diplomatic compound deviated from those requirements. So Hilary! isn’t going to get away with her BS about not having any knowledge about the inadequate security in Benghazi. Like the spooks, the bureaucrats at State won’t let her or any other appointee blame them for her screw up. Political appointees come and go. The careerists have been there a long time, plan to be there a long time, and have a lot of practice in backstabbing and undermining people who pose a threat to their plans.

    For your listening pleasure, Sharyl Atkinson of CBS discusses the amazingly inept stonewalling of Benghazi:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6oFfVHm67qA#!

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  129. …It was a preview of the administration’s defense of its claims on Ben­ghazi. After pushing the intelligence community to revise its talking points to fit the administration’s preferred narrative, administration officials would point fingers at the intelligence community when parts of that narrative were shown to be misleading or simply untrue.

    They are brazen in their mendacity.

    JD (b63a52)

  130. It’s curiously a projection of how they imagined the WMD evidence, came to light;

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/04/benghazi-names-whistleblower-witnesses-revealed/?intcmp=trending

    narciso (3fec35)

  131. narciso – Two of the three witnesses have not testified or talked to the ARB but had been in Libya. Why would anybody want to hear from them? Pure crazy talk!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  132. I know, when we can have people who weren’t even in the same continent, tell us, that our own lies, and camera feed was lying to us.

    narciso (3fec35)

  133. But but but Carnie said that everyone with any information had already testified.

    JD (b63a52)

  134. 133. They are brazen in their mendacity.

    Comment by JD (b63a52) — 5/4/2013 @ 9:00 am

    Too brazen in this case. The administration ordered the people who knew the truth to conceal it in their talking points, then blamed the talking points for the fact the administration didn’t tell the truth. What idiocy. What kind of fool thinks they’ll get away with that.

    The best part is that it’s the administration itself that’s calling attention to its stonewalling.

    http://news.yahoo.com/fbi-releases-photos-three-men-benghazi-attack-211354488.html

    When Carney says Benghazi happened a long time ago, the press sort of cocks its head and says, “Yeah, it was a while ago. And you’re just now releasing pictures of some guys you want to talk to? What have you been doing all this time?” Well, some in the press, anyway.

    CNN had a typical reaction to these photos that were just released. They noted it took eight months. They noted it sure doesn’t look like there was any protest. What CNN failed to note is that this and more is what the DSS agent in the TOC would have been looking at. So he would have known there was no protest. And he was in constant communications with the embassy in Tripoli, so the embassy in Tripoli would have known immediately there was no protest. And Tripoli was in communications with DC, so the people at the Diplomatic Security Command Center would have known immediately that there was no protest. Which means everyone in DC with a need to know would have known there was no protest. Which means the story about protest was a deliberate lie, and a lot of people knew it.

    So, yes, too brazen in their mendacity. Way, way too brazen. But as I said they really jumped the shark named brazen mendacity when they lied about who invented the lie. At that point they were asking for what it is they’re going to get.

    Eventually when people start pulling on all the loose threads this administration never bothers to tidy ups and the whole story unravels, the ultimate question will be why there even was a diplomatic facility in Benghazi at all. The best way, after all, to secure people is to not put them in danger. The administration will not have a good answer for that. Because there is no legitimate reason to have the ambassador at that compound in Benghazi. Which means of course that according to the Book of Obvious there was an illegitimate reason that the administration needs to hide for the ambassador being in that compound in Benghazi. Hence the stonewalling. The administration is calling attention to their own stonewalling, and the stonewalling is calling attention to the illegitimate nature of the business this administration was conducting out of that facility in Benghazi.

    Of course we’ve all heard bits and pieces of what they were doing. But of course we’ve just seen the tip of the iceberg. Remember that the Turkish consul general dined with Amb. Stevens on the night of the attack. He left a half hour after neighbors told the press that Ansar Al Sharia began setting up roadblocks. The neighbors described the checkpoints as being manned by bearded jihadis armed with machine guns in pickups bearing the insignia and name of Ansar Al Sharia. They said no one could get in or out of the area of the American diplomatic facility. Yet the Turkish consul general did get through these checkpoints. There is no way he could not have noticed them. Yet he obviously didn’t warn anyone at the US facility. The clear implication is that he was in on it.

    In some ways this Benghazi attack and murder of US diplomatic and CIA personnel is similar to past attacks and murders. It has certain similarities to the Boston Marathon bombing because this did not take place at some remote location. Benghazi is a large city and like the Boston Marathon bombing there were a lot of people and cameras around. Including people with cell phone cameras. There was just no way the Obama administration could silence everyone or stop them from uploading their pictures and videos.

    It reminds me in certain ways of the USS Liberty incident because of the involvement of a nominal ally and the fact that there were forces within range to lend assistance.

    And in some ways it reminds me of the 1973 kidnapping and murder of Amb. Cleo Noel Jr. and his deputy George Moore in Khartoum Sudan. They were kidnapped, interestingly enough, from a reception at the Saudi embassy. Fatah’s Black September organization, the same group that killed the Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics the year before, kidnapped them. When the USG refused to release the Palestinian who murdered Robert Kennedy and other prisoners, they murdered Noel and Moore on the personal verbal orders of Yassir Arafat.

    We had the audio on tape.

    The USG was able to keep that quiet because the only people in the US who knew were a small group of top government and CIA officials. The only eyewitnesses were Fatah terrorists.

    But the Benghazi attack was a public event like the Boston Marathon bombing. The whole city witnessed it. And note, nothing about the Boston Marathon bombing itself was classified. This, again, was another clue that the administration was lying and in full cover-up mode. There was nothing classified about the attack that took place in full public view. It was a ridiculous claim. That would mean the Libyans, foreign nationals, who had eyewitness accounts were in possession of of classified US information. It was such a preposterous thing to assert that like so much else simply drew attention to the fact that the Obama administration had something to hide.

    And like the USS Liberty incident the attack went on too long and there were just too many US personnel who took part for the government’s flimsy excuses for its own actions and the cover-story it concocted to stand for long.

    The people in this administration are brazen in their mendacity, but they are also so clueless they don’t realize they are obviously so.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  135. we had the compound tape, and the one from the drone, the lack of definition, suggests the latter;

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2013/05/the_complete_benghazi_timeline_in_spreadsheet_format.html

    narciso (3fec35)

  136. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/04/benghazi-names-whistleblower-witnesses-revealed/#ixzz2SKxaq5mQ

    Fox is reporting:

    Appearing before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee will be three career State Department officials: Gregory N. Hicks, the deputy chief of mission at the U.S. Embassy in Libya at the time of the Benghazi terrorist attacks; Mark I. Thompson, a former Marine and now the deputy coordinator for Operations in the agency’s Counterterrorism Bureau; and Eric Nordstrom, a diplomatic security officer who was the regional security officer in Libya, the top security officer in the country in the months leading up to the attacks.

    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/05/04/benghazi-names-whistleblower-witnesses-revealed/#ixzz2SMi3MRLR

    Of course like all press reports, even Fox, it remains to be seen if these are in fact some of the whistleblowers. This can’t be all because apparently there’s at least one individual at CIA who wants to come forward. And Rep. Jason Cheffetz (R-UT) appears to have confirmed that Hicks at least will testify. And the list makes perfect sense.

    Nordstrom is the RSO who testified before Congress that for him “the Taliban were inside the building,” referring to Hillary!’s DoS. And he was closer to the truth than he imagined. Huma Abedin is Hillary!’s close adviser and she’s attached at the hip to the Muslim Brotherhood.

    Hopefully these words will come back and haunt John McCain:

    “These allegations about Huma and the report from which they are drawn are nothing less than an unwarranted and unfounded attack on an honorable woman, a dedicated American and a loyal public servant… The letter and the report offer not one instance of an action, a decision or a public position that Huma has taken while at the State Department that would lend credence to the charge that she is promoting anti-American activities within our government… These attacks on Huma have no logic, no basis and no merit. And they need to stop now.”

    What a clueless idjit.

    These guys are not nobodies. If they testify this is going to cause huge problems for the administration. Hicks would have been the highest ranking diplomat in Tripoli while Stevens was in Benghazi. He would have been at the top of the information pyramid the night of 9/11/2012. He would also be in a position to know what decisions Hillary! was personally involved in.

    And Thompson would know what intelligence had been given to Hillary! regarding the threat in Benghazi. As Deputy Coordinator the DoS’s Counterterrorism Bureau he would be in a good position to know what information was passed to the WH situation room, when and who saw it. I’ve had occasion to deal with the WH situation room. When you communicate with them (generally getting a call from the WH situation room isn’t good) that gets logged, along with who you spoke to and their position. He would also know what intel DoS had regarding the attackers as well as the cause of the attack and expose Susan Rice once and for all as a liar.

    I have a hard time imagining if he were at all available the Deputy Director for Coordination at the Department’s Counterterrorism Bureau wasn’t called in and/or involved somehow the night the balloon went up and putting in some overtime in the days following. And I also have a hard time imagining the Deputy Director for Coordination at the department’s Counterterrorism Bureau would have taken leave or otherwise made himself unavailable on the anniversary of 9/11/2001.

    As an aside did you notice how the WH and their lackeys in the press played down the significance of the date when it hurt the narrative they were trying to put out in advance of the facts? But how quickly former WH official/current press lackey Axelrod and other MFM water-carriers seized on the significance of “tax day” and “Patriot’s Day” when they were trying to manufacture a narrative the Boston Marathon bombing was probably right wing terrorism in advance of the facts? These are not mistakes they’re making.

    I doubt that any of them can shed light on what the President knew or even if he was involved unless there was a teleconference, but I doubt there was. But if they can shed light on Hillary!’s involvement it won’t matter if she claims not to remember what work if any she did at DoS related to Libya, as she did 99 times when asked about the work she did for her friends at the Whitewater S&L.

    One more interesting tidbit; according to the report it appears the Accountability Review Board did not talk to these people. That they did not want to talk to these people. Although the report is a bit unclear and the ARB simply rejected their accounts of events leading up to the night of the attack, the attack itself, and subsequent events.

    Either one would expose the ARB’s report as a whitewash and a cover-up. If a panel convened with the sole purpose of investigating the Benghazi attack didn’t even want to hear from the top diplomat in Tripoli and probably the last person at the embassy to talk with Ambassador Stevens, the RSO who was oversaw security at the Benghazi facility, and they didn’t want to talk to this guy?

    http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/biog/bureau/203400.htm

    Mark Thompson is the Deputy Coordinator for Operations in the Bureau of Counterterrorism at the U.S. Department of State. He joined the State Department as a U.S. Marine in 1996, transitioned to the Civil Service in 1998, and assumed this position in 2006.

    In this position, Mr. Thompson advises senior leadership on operational counterterrorism matters, and ensures that the United States can rapidly respond to global terrorism crises. Specifically, Ops coordinates policy and operational proposals; plans for crisis response during significant international events; collaborates with USG and international partners to develop technologies for countering terrorism; develops and conducts overseas counterterrorism exercises; and leads the Foreign Emergency Support Team (FEST).

    The FEST is the U.S. Government’s only interagency, on-call team poised to rapidly respond to terrorist incidents worldwide. The FEST assists and advises the U.S. Ambassador in assessing the situation and coordinating USG crisis response activities. Mr. Thompson has led numerous FEST deployments in support of U.S. Ambassadors, including deployments to Latin America (2001), Southeast Asia (2002), and Africa (2006). Previously, he deployed as a FEST Operations Officer in response to the 1998 East Africa U.S. Embassy bombings and the 2000 attack on the USS Cole in Aden, Yemen.

    FEST, if you recall, was one of the resources available to the Obama administration immediately after the attack. Instead they decided to wait a few weeks so their precious FBI agents could safely leave their hotel in Tripoli. Another assed available during the assault that was also ignored was the Counterterrorism Security Group. But Obama didn’t convene the CSG. Even though it’s not listed on his bio I doubt that given his position at State his involvement in it is nil.

    If the ARB didn’t talk to these guys that’s huge. There’s no excuse for that. Even if the talked to them to make the whitewash appear less like the cover-up that it obviously was but excluded their accounts from the report, that’s still big. And again there is not excuse for it.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  137. If you have not already done so you must watch this clip of Rep. Issa and Bob Scheiffer discussing Benghazi from this morning’s Face the Nation show. It is going to leave a mark. Both Issa and Scheiffer showed what a professional interview about a serious topic interview looks like

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-3460_162-57582929/official-we-knew-benghazi-was-a-terrorist-attack-from-the-get-go/

    elissa (fc49fa)

  138. Finally. It’s ON!!!
    Dem congressman Stephen Lynch on Fox this morning:

    Lynch said that U.N. ambassador Susan Rice provided “false information” about the attacks during her now-infamous round of appearances on the Sunday-talk-show circuit in September 2012. “It was scrubbed. It was totally inaccurate,” he said.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/347420/dem-congressman-benghazi-talking-points-were-scrubbed

    elissa (fc49fa)

  139. elissa – There was an election to win, by any means necessary. Foreign policy failures the Administration couldn’t blame on a felon who made a video would not have been helpful.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  140. Thanks for that elissa.
    Benghazi may have been a long time ago, but CBS is actually asking the right questions.
    I’m not sure exactly what was meant, but it sounded like the other whistle-blower to testify is a relatively high counter-terrorism official who was “locked out of the room”- does that mean physically locked out of the situation room when he should have been among the people managing the crisis (or some metaphorical meaning)?

    Painted Jaguar (a sockpuppet) (3d3f72)

  141. is the video guy still in jail or god help us is he out making more youtubes

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  142. Oh, but Carnie says it’s the dang Republicans who are politicizing Benghazi, daley.

    elissa (fc49fa)

  143. yes feets, he is still in jail.

    elissa (fc49fa)

  144. America is creepy how cheaply it values human freedom elissa

    creepy creepy creepy

    but at least the fancy CIA boys are still free to take a break from buggering each other silly for to make crap up and feed it to our hungry hungry propaganda slut media

    we have to hold onto at least that

    we have to hold on tight

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  145. Jag–Not sure, but I took it to mean that the terrorism guy in the State Dept. was locked out of the room when “they” were scrubbing the talking points down to nothingness.

    elissa (fc49fa)

  146. feets, the founding fathers valued freedom.
    The current admin and others who are lib-light think they know what is best for everybody and fairness is it, so they will do what they need to do to make sure everything is fair for all of us,
    while those who are in charge of the rest of us are being treated “more fairly”.
    Somehow that “fraternity/fairness/equality” thing didn’t work out too well for the French when it was first tried either.

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  147. Comment by elissa (fc49fa) — 5/5/2013 @ 11:39 am

    Painted Jaguar
    (Twitching tail): Could be. I guess we’ll find out who was locked out of which room by who and when, and Mr. Schieffer can next week ask, “Why?”.

    Painted Jaguar (a sockpuppet) (3d3f72)

  148. yes they did value freedom

    they really did

    but this was back before we had fancy CIA creampuffs to make up lies for to help food stamp fascists win elections

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  149. Painted Jaguar: And Mr. Issa can reply, “Well, I can’t be sure, but if it looks like a hedgehog, talks like a hedgehog, and rolls up with its stickly pricklies all sticking out like a hedgehog, it is probably a hedgehog. And if it looks like a coverup, smells like a coverup, and is denied like a coverup, then it is probably a coverup.”

    Painted Jaguar (a sockpuppet) (3d3f72)

  150. Painted Jaguar: And then Mr. Issa can ask, “Mr. Schieffer, how bad do you think something would have to be to be covered up by the most transparent and popular and messiahicical administration ever?”.
    And when Mr. Schieffer says, “Well, I guess pretty bad when you put it that way”,
    Mr. Issa can then just give a Cheshire Cat grin and say, “Yep”.

    Painted Jaguar (a sockpuppet) (3d3f72)

  151. I don’t see the Proletariat walking on this, nor Fast & Furious, and a whole host of stonewalls, e.g., the Gulf Spill, Solyndra et al.

    This should, should, open the floodgates or the dikes are going to ‘splode.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  152. Seems like something is not Optimal in this Administration, but that’s just me, your mileage may vary.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  153. it does look like it’s not optimal Mr. daley but that’s cause you’re not including the food stamp multiplier

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  154. 141. If you have not already done so you must watch this clip of Rep. Issa and Bob Scheiffer discussing Benghazi from this morning’s Face the Nation show. It is going to leave a mark. …

    Comment by elissa (fc49fa) — 5/5/2013 @ 10:31 am

    Yes it will leave a mark. That firm “No” that Hicks gave congressional investigators, especially, when asked if there was ever any protest. He also added it was unbelievable that there could have been a protest and that Stevens wouldn’t have reported it.

    I worked for the Navy regional commander during one of the tours when I was stationed in Japan, and I spent enough time at the embassy to know that DoS has roughly similar reporting procedures as the military. And when I stood watch as staff duty officer we were required to report demonstration. If memory serves just the fact of a demonstration rated a Unit SITREP. But you stand SDO in operations, and Unit SITREPs are operational reports.

    What was coming into State’s Diplomatic Security Command Center from the Benghazi TOC, or tactical operations center, was not intel. The DSS agent who was manning the TOC and who was in constant contact by phone and no doubt email was reporting on the diplomatic facility’s own situation. That’s just not what intelligence is.

    There clearly was no protest. That fell apart immediately. And it wasn’t an intelligence issue, so when the Obama administration tried to claim it was that’s when it became glaringly obvious they were in full cover-up mode.

    You just didn’t see this kind of stonewalling when it was the USS Cole, for instance.

    It’ll be good when Hicks testifies about the fallout after Rice repeated the administration’s lies and insulted the Libyan president by doing so. Then they can call Clinton back and read her the list of why it matters “at this point” what happened before during and after the attack. Then ask her why someone so stupid should ever have been SecState in the first place.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  155. There was never any protests in Benghazi, the Gamaa Islamiyah tape dropped the evening before, then there were the protests in Cairo, which fell on the 25th of Shawwal, an important date in their calendar

    narciso (3fec35)

  156. “but that’s cause you’re not including the food stamp multiplier”

    damn static analysis again!

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  157. well in your defense not all the textbooks have been updated yet

    happyfeet (8ce051)

  158. narciso, the administration might have well have tried to claim the Boston bombings grew out of a spontaneous protest over an anti-Muslim youtube video. That’s a bit of an extreme example but that’s about how idiotic it was to claim there was a protest when there wasn’t.

    We don’t put diplomatic facilities out in the middle of nowhere or in inaccessible areas. Where they can’t do diplomacy or conduct consular business. The press was talking to Benghazi residents who witnessed the attack almost immediately.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  159. THat’s entirely possible, Steve, their minions certainly went full ‘squirrel’ for the better part of a week.

    narciso (3fec35)

  160. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19587068

    Here’s a link to a BBC report with overhead imagery showing the location of the diplomatic facility in Benghazi. It’s not in one of the most built up areas of the city, but if a crowd had gathered for a protest lots of people would have seen it.

    Also note it’s not that far from Benghazi Medical Center. A Mass. General surgeon was on the phone with embassy staffers then at the Benghazi site from either BMC or his nearby hotel when the attack began. That wouldn’t have been happening had there been a protest. They wouldn’t have been able to talk with him because the Benghazi site wasn’t very secure; they would have had other things to do.

    I don’t know the scale, but the diplomatic facility can’t be very far from BMC as the doctor heard the explosion that marked the beginning of the assault simultaneously over the phone and through his window.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  161. Nor has there ever been any love lost between Hillary and Obama; she felt cheated out of the nomination by an upstart nobody with a negligible record of accomplishment in any field, but swallowed her pride and took one for Team Clinton in order to maintain her viability to succeed Obama. If he decides to throw her to the wolves over Benghazi, there will be hell to pay.

    And hell is what is coming, one way or the other, because this time — unlike the Clinton impeachment — the big dogs are in play, in the form of hordes of very pissed-off special ops agents, patriotic spooks, forcibly retired generals and clandestine operatives who know where the bodies are buried. If the Obama administration turned its back on Chris Stevens and the three other brave Americans who died that day for crass political purposes — and, worse, if it let them die as collateral damage in its own gunrunning operation to Syria — the men and women who stand watch for this country all through the night are going to come out of the shadows, quickly.

    http://pjmedia.com/michaelwalsh/2013/05/05/benghazi-blues/?singlepage=true

    elissa (fc49fa)

  162. 164. Stevens saw the Turkish envoy out and outside the compound the fellow departed with the attackers assembled waiting for him to leave.

    The real question is what could have been the reason to lose an Ambassador? Certainly not the US election or the failure of Obama ME policy, or gun running to Syria, although all three might begin to compare with the loss.

    Either the Ambassador was to be swapped for the blind sheikh or Brennan had something really important going down.

    Every one knew about the gun running to Al Qaeda affiliated rebels. And some of the attackers claimed to have been sent by Morsi.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  163. elissa @165, that is all very true. Which is why any of my earlier comments, going back to the immediate aftermath of the attack itself, shouldn’t be interpreted as an attempt to claim some sort of unique analytical ability or insight that no one else possesses.

    For instance I know for a fact that you report a protest against or an attack on an overt US installation as an operational matter. It isn’t an intelligence issue. And it’s no more classified than a news report about Occupy Wallstreet or on the attack on the Boston Marathon or the twin towers. In fact the initial voice report and follow on messages are according to the reporting guidance to be unclassified.

    But then, so do millions of other US citizens walking around the country. So when Rice tried to claim she was just repeating the “best intel” that was a lie that was obvious to millions, not just me.

    Mahalia cab seems to think it wasn’t the obvious decision to close the diplomatic facility. But the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic relations of 1961 is clear…

    http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf

    …that it’s the responsibility of the receiving state, or host nation, to defend the premises.

    This wasn’t even a regular consulate. DoS insists it was some sort of special diplomatic facility. It doesn’t appear it ever had foreign service officers assigned to it; they deployed to Benghazi when Stevens traveled there from Tripoli. In fact, DoS has been so insistent that point it seems like they’re firing off flares and erecting a neon sign begging Congress to look into why we even had it.

    But again, there are a lot of people in this country who know that this was a bizarre situation. The government (this government) has admitted that the Libyan government has a tenuous grasp on the reins of power in Benghazi, that they can’t control the militias that run wild in the place, and that the central government in Libya couldn’t protect the facility.

    So it’s a glaringly obvious question to ask. If in Benghazi the Libyan government couldn’t fulfill its obligations under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations and everyone including those at the highest levels of the Obama administration knew it, why have the facility? What was so important about it that made it worth the risk?

    As an aside, this is why if I were a GOP Congresscritter I’d relish the opportunities to ask those and other questions the Obama administration seems eager to provide me by trying to change the subject to Congress cutting embassy security funding.

    Here are two posts from Powerline that appeared on 16 Sep 2012, when Rice went on all those Sunday talking head shows.

    “Fools and knaves:

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/09/fools-and-knaves.php

    Among recent news reports that suggest this story won’t stand is this CNN story, currently linked on Drudge:

    According to one of the Libyan security guards who was stationed at one of the gates armed with only a radio, the assault began simultaneously from three directions.

    Heavy machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades were used, according to the guard. He said masked men threatened to kill him at gunpoint for “protecting the infidels.[“] He declined to appear on camera for fear of repercussions.

    Rice is faithfully conveying the administration’s talking points, dutifully repeated on Meet the Press as well. This fish is, of course, rotting from the head.

    Fools and knaves, part 2:

    http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2012/09/fools-and-knaves-part-2.php

    A reader has forwarded links to a number of sources strongly suggesting, Susan Rice to the contrary notwithstanding, that the Benghanzi murders constituted a premeditated and organized attack:

    A lot of people knew the Obama administration’s Benghazi story was pure BS from the start. Things just don’t work the way they were trying to spin it. They really thought they could get away with this pathetic cover-up? Tell me again why I’m supposed to think people like Obama and Hillary! are even reasonably smart let alone endowed with superhuman intelligence as their press flacks claim?

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  164. Interesting, the deputy interior minister, Wanis Sharif, who blamed the attack on Qaddafi loyalists, was a former member of the Libyan Fighting Group,
    Al Libi’s brother Hussein Quaid, was in charge of a border outpost in the South.

    narciso (3fec35)

  165. The real question is what could have been the reason to lose an Ambassador?

    Yes, gary. That’s another way of getting to the glaringly obvious questions revolving around the fact that for some reason it was vitally important for the Obama administration to have a special diplomatic facility in an area effectively outside the control of the Tripoli government.

    I realize the Obama administration and the Democrats think it’s a clever trick to try and falsely divert blame to the Republicans voting to cut the budget for embassy security. First of all it’s a stupid claim.

    But mostly because it gives the Republicans carte blanche to ask questions such as yours. And there will be no good answers.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  166. Cretz, who was replaced by Stevens, having been previously burned by Wikileaks, were the two top
    North African area experts,

    narciso (3fec35)

  167. 165. CBS seems to have broken ranks doubtless knowing the magnitude of the story, a la Nixon.

    Easier to replace a Spokesmodel than the whole freakin’ machine.

    gary gulrud (dd7d4e)

  168. ==CBS seems to have broken ranks doubtless knowing the magnitude of the story, a la Nixon.
    Easier to replace a Spokesmodel than the whole freakin’ machine.==

    Well said, GG. It took a while but this example of CBS showing the way on Benghazi should be quite instructive in another way for the many of us here who are frustrated with the seeming hopelessness of it all. Even now in the dark times, just two people–one creaky but professional old-school journalist/program host (Scheiffer), and one seriously dogged and competent reporter (Attkisson) who understood it was her job to sniff out the facts of an important story and drag it to the ground terrier-style, (alone and all the while up against almost insurmountable odds)– clearly can still make a world of difference in bucking the 24/7 propaganda machine.

    elissa (b26d6e)

  169. I don’t think CBS is breaking ranks. It’s basically a dogged Attkisson and a reluctant Schieffer.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  170. DRJ@174–Do you think the Sunday program yesterday would have been conducted in the manner it was had it not been done with the full knowledge and with the imprimatur of higher ups at CBS news (who both seek and saw a way to differentiate and distinguish their decaying network)?

    Among other things I get the feeling that in retrospect they are not at all comfortable with the interplay and their unintended role in propagating the Benghazi narrative on their last September’s show that had both the Libyan president and Ambassador Susan Rice as guests and Rice essentially called him a liar.

    elissa (b26d6e)

  171. elissa,

    I think Bob Schieffer and his producers decide who the guests and topics on Face the Nation will be, not the bigwigs at CBS. As Schieffer said in this Texas Monthly interview, he was making independent decisions on the program since at least 2008:

    ES: You’ve just published a book, Bob Schieffer’s America, that’s a collection of the commentaries you write and then deliver at the end of Face the Nation. You’re the only Sunday host who does such a thing.

    BS: It all started, literally by accident, on the Sunday after Richard Nixon died. We had a roundtable on Nixon, and I thought the program needed a little button, so I wrote up this short commentary that said, “He left the White House in disgrace, but he left the earth with dignity.” I got such a huge response that a couple of weeks later I thought maybe I should try it again, and again I got a huge response. And so the next year, we incorporated it as a regular feature, and it’s now the most popular part of the program. It’s kind of interesting because it shows you how television works. When I started doing it, I never heard anything from the bosses in New York, and I started to worry that maybe I was violating CBS guidelines, because they’re very strict about not having a point of view. I thought, “Well, if I’m doing something wrong, they’ll tell me to stop.” But no one ever said anything. Then I won the Sigma Delta Chi award for commentary on television, and everyone from New York called down, “Great work! Keep up those commentaries!”

    I suspect Schieffer and his producers still control the substance and style on Face the Nation, although it would be interesting to know if they are getting any blowback from the upper echelons.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  172. Bonb Schieffer tried to get a discussion going on Benghazi in the third debate, but Mitt Romney wouldn’t bite.

    http://foxnewsinsider.com/2012/10/22/transcript-president-obama-mitt-romney-in-final-presidential-debate-at-lynn-university

    And everyone wanted to say he was tilting toward Obama.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  173. Bob Schieffer comes from a Democratic family but they are moderate (or even conservative) by Washington standards. I don’t believe Schieffer has been a moderate in Washington but sometimes we go back to our roots as we age, or maybe the Benghazi story is more than he can stomach.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  174. 178. Democratic family:

    The Wikipedia article starts:

    John Thomas “Tom” Schieffer (born October 4, 1947) is an American diplomat who served as U.S. Ambassador to Japan from 2005 to 2009 and as U.S. Ambassador to Australia from 2001 to 2005. Schieffer is a friend and former business partner of President George W. Bush. He is the younger brother of Bob Schieffer, a CBS News reporter and host of Face the Nation.

    Earlier, Tom Schieffer was elected as a Democrat to the Texas state legislature in the 1970s and the article states he belongs to the John Connally and Senator Lloyd M. Bentsen, Jr wing. He was also the Fort Worth area co-ordinator for Democratic Governor Mark Wells White’s election campaigns. In 2009 he ran for Governor as a Democrat nbut then dropped out and endorsed Houston mayor Bill White although White was actually running for the Senate. The Wikipedia article hasn’t been kept up to date.

    Sammy Finkelman (d22d64)

  175. 179- I was not aware that Bob Schieffer has a bro who is/was an overseas diplomat. That could in fact be a very key factor in his interest in this case, overriding any politics. It must pain him to picture his younger brother in a similar situation–scared, under attack, unable to defend himself, and unable to rely on the U.S. government. Because of his brother Bob Schieffer probably also knows a little more about the inner workings of the State Dept. than the average journalist and may have some inside contacts.

    Thank you for posting that, DRJ and Sammy.

    elissa (b26d6e)

  176. Good insights, elissa.

    DRJ (a83b8b)

  177. To daley, Bin Laden should have been put on trial – if he was unarmed, they could have tasered and cuffed him just as easy as they shot him. Obama abandoned the Constitution, but it was only to steal the swing states from the Republicans because he’s got you defending him now, against the law. You can say we had to kill bin Laden, but we didn’t bother to change the law first. Now we have no moral high ground if someone puts a bullet in the eye of one of our leaders.

    OF COURSE his ongoing drone war in Afghanistan and Pakistan has been killing innocents and creating a backlash, glad to see you catching up. The problem is that jihadis were already against us, the drone raids have steadily cost us the support of moderate Pakistanis and Afghans (using moderate as a relative term, of course). So how come the GOP is years behind on this? (The answer rhymes with tush).

    To elissa, the one that wasn’t looking into F&F was Holder. But I’m still back on the Katherine Eban debunking because I read the debunking of her debunking and it was not convincing. Holder survived, unfortunately, and the whole thing lost traction.

    To gary, if those were not pre-’91 stockpiles, you better tell George Bush because he already admitted Iraq had no WMD on live TV. Also tell Rick Santorum because he lost his Senator’s seat in PA trying to say he found the WMD. He lost in a landslide because he was wasting everyone’s time referring to pre-’91 stores. If you found the WMD, share the link, but remember the pre-’91 WMD was accounted for and under UN guard, not under Saddam’s control as Bush said.

    To JVW, I don’t know what grade you’re in but the death toll has nothing to do with it, it’s the nature of the attacker. Japan was a sovereign nation whose government ordered the strikes and whose military carried it out, in an alliance with Nazi Germany. Afghanistan was a corrupt, failed state with a total power vacuum that had an al Qaeda terrorist cell hiding out there temporarily.

    We have been spinning our wheels there ever since, pitting the birth rate of the Taliban against the death rate of our troops and sinking economy. And if you say, well then screw it, let’s just fight the Taliban, after all they’re Arabs too – you’d be a massive hypocrite because George Bush was negotiating a pipeline deal with them in the months before 9-11.

    We know now the perpetrator of 9-11 was a small band of terrorists Reagan hired to fight the Russians. They got pissed when the US wasn’t funding them anymore. Then when we put bases in Saudi Arabia, bin Laden’s holy land, he swore jihad, but with no affiliation with any government or military body. That made this a law enforcement matter, time for detective work by intelligence agencies and action to be carried out by small footprint striketeams. History has already shown the error – we lost more lives in the “war” then we did in the original attack.

    Dustin, that question was not serious was it?

    Daley, Clinton kept Saddam’s WMD contained and didn’t lose trillions we don’t have in a ground war, right?

    Steve, my argument isn’t that there’s no there in Benghazi, it’s that you cannot go after Obama while giving Bush a pass. There are bad decisions and CYA, but lying to Congress about a WMD threat that got our troops killed by the thousands is a little more serious than temporarily shifting blame for a surprise attack onto a video. So my complaint is that you guys are all not consistent.

    A lot of conservatives just try to avoid the Bush era war crimes, to move on and forget or ignore it and hope it’s not brought up, but I think about the goldstar families that can’t move on so easily. I notice only a few dead enders here try to defend the WMD claim but you all ignore the recent revelations that show the deliberate deception of the WMD claims. It’s awkward to support a war for a decade and then hear new evidence that shows the administration buried the proof there were actually no WMD.

    It’s a shame you guys can’t come clean on Bush because then you could impeach Obama for failing to protect and defend the Constitution. Just like the GOP won’t go after him for shielding banks with slam dunk evidence of rampant fraud, there’s no principle there, the GOP is no check on the Dems, they just want to win so they can get the donations instead. Neither cares about the actual taxpaying voter.

    Mahalia Cab (98126c)

  178. Mahalia Cab, you continue to repeat lies long ago debunked. Osama Bin Laden was not “hired” by Reagan to fight the Russians. Bin Laden and the Taliban were Pakistan intelligence constructions, not US. There are no “recent revelations” in WMD – a bipartisan select intel committee report debunked your fraudulent claims.

    And “Bush era war crimes” is just more of your slander.

    You continue to bathe yourself in conspiracy theories debunked a decade ago.

    SPQR (6b2dff)

  179. Steve, my argument isn’t that there’s no there in Benghazi, it’s that you cannot go after Obama while giving Bush a pass. There are bad decisions and CYA, but lying to Congress about a WMD threat that got our troops killed by the thousands is a little more serious than temporarily shifting blame for a surprise attack onto a video. So my complaint is that you guys are all not consistent.

    Ms. Cab, did I not mention that during one of my tours while stationed in Japan I was on the staff of the regional naval commander? Well, that’s not quite true. When I was recalled in November 2001 I was reassigned to that same staff. I was privy to the intel that the Bush administration directed be distributed to major commands. What’s more I knew and communicated with the analysts who produced the intel. Unlike Prom Queen who is satisfied with reading the brief I’d actually contact the analysts to determine why they were saying what they were saying.

    I’ve mentioned that I spent some time at the embassy. That’s because, if you’ll recall, we did in fact build a coalition although the MFM would like to airbrush that out of the history books. Japan did contribute a couple of destroyers and an oiler (on a rotating basis) to pass us gas and keep our ships on station during Operation Noble Eagle. That involves a lot of down-in-the-weeds military-to-military coordination, but also government-to-government interaction well above my level.

    So what I’m saying, Ms. Cab, is don’t lecture me on how I need to be consistent if I’m going to go after Obama for reasons that I know for a fact are true then I need to go after Bush for complete fictions that you find appealing.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  180. So, do you have any actual solutions to offer to get us off of your so called hamster wheel, Mahalia? Benghazi stands on its own and Obama owns it. Bush has not been president for a long time and R candidates have been pretty much distancing themselves from him for three election cycles now (although he’s starting to look better and better to a lot of Americans).

    I think most people who comment here believe there are multiple banksters both private (including a former governor of NJ) and Fannie Mae types who should be in prison but have never even been prosecuted by the Obama administration’s Justice Dept. Holder does not buy a can of pop without checking with Obama and Valerie. They tell him what to do. Meanwhile, in other areas time after time, in situation after situation, Obama has kept many Bush policies in place and in some cases enhanced them, even after campaigning against them and calling Bush the devil incarnate.

    What do you suggest? “A pox on all their houses” is a copout. That’s a favorite observation by Leviticus, too –but not a solution. Please try to add some value here if you’re going to comment rather than just insulting people you don’t know.

    elissa (b26d6e)

  181. Benghazi was a long time ago. But, BUSH!!!!!

    JD (283b0e)

  182. I meant to say Japan had those assets in the Indian Ocean in support of Operation Enduring Freedom.

    Sorry.

    Steve57 (da9e0e)

  183. “but remember the pre-’91 WMD was accounted for and under UN guard, not under Saddam’s control as Bush said.”

    Mahalia – Wrong. They were never all accounted for. Saddam claimed he destroyed a portion outside of allied supervision and then spent ten years complaining that nobody would believe him because he was fundamentally such an honest soul. Go figure.

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  184. daleyrocks, not to mention what the Duelfer Report showed us remained of materials that were supposed to be under UN control but never were.

    SPQR (768505)

  185. “George Bush was negotiating a pipeline deal with them in the months before 9-11.”

    Mahalia – Mahalia, can you tell us anything concrete about this pipeline or negotiations or just the fantasies created on loony left websites?

    daleyrocks (bf33e9)

  186. NOWAR4ORBLOODFOROIL !!!!!!!!

    JD (b63a52)

  187. The pipeline deal thing was an absolute lie tossed around first by Robert Scheer who made it up out of whole cloth. Just as he made up the false claim that we were funding the Taliban government in Afghanistan prior to 9/11.

    SPQR (768505)

  188. And Ted Rall and Michael Moore, picked up the ball from there,

    narciso (3fec35)

  189. SPQR, the US indeed funded and armed the Mujahadeen fighting forces during the 10 year war in Afghanistan which led to the economic collapse of the USSR. There is a striking photo of the Mujahadeen, decked out in dirty military garb, sitting with the Gipper in the Oval Office.

    Bin Laden made his name during this conflict, planning to bleed the US dry economically by engaging us in costly, unwinnable asymmetrical wars in the Mid East. The idea that the US lied it’s way into Iraq is widely held internationally, with Bush and co. convicted in absentia in a symbolic trial held in Kuala Lampur by war crime activists. They want to question Bush officials in Canada, London, Russia, Spain, Switzerland and elsewhere for various war crimes.

    You can say I am debunked and pull your hair out as much as you want, but if you can’t explain how the Curveball dissent got spiked, you will not be of much use in this discussion. This goes for anybody else too – explain how the reports from the CIA and BND saying Curveball made up phantom mobile bio weapons labs did not forestall the claims made by Powell to Congress.

    The career pros who made those dissents all have memoirs out now with granular detail, so I can explain this as specifically as needed for those who have not been following these developments.

    I know the concept of high treason is awkward, but it happened before when Nixon made a secret deal with the enemy to cuckold LBJ – on this, the evidence is irrefutable now. The same charges were leveled when Reagan made a backdoor deal with the Iranians to beat Carter, but I don’t know if Ronnie was read in to that treasonous plot because he didn’t seem to know about a lot of crimes taking place under his nose.

    Steve, just because you heard the lies earlier than the public doesn’t change a thing. The claim that Saddam meant to cause us harm with mobile bio weapons labs was false, and we know know when they knew this was false – as soon as the claims were made.

    You do need to be consistent, actually, that’s the idea of a “law”, and the Constitution isn’t there only when it’s convenient. I’m still trying to understand what law you say was broken in Benghazi – lying about a YouTube video? Couldn’t Obama just say “mistakes were made” like Bush? How can we hold one guy’s feet to the fire but not the other, explain it to me.

    to elissa, the solutions are clear, one was announced on TV in 1961 as Eisenhower turned the White House over to JFK. He said beware the military industrial complex because they will start wars just for financial gain. The other solutions are in the Constitution, but no one seems to be heeding them since 9/11.

    Did you hear yourself just using the “Jay Carney excuse” headlined above in regard to Bush – “that was a long time ago”?. Full circle there.

    The Benghazi incident with 4 dead is one thousand times smaller than the WMD goose chase in Iraq. So why would Obama go down for something as common as an embassy attack? Where is the consistency. It’s like you getting on my case for incivility, while giving the others a pass – you didn’t speak out on “insulting people” evenhandedly, though the most and worst insults on this page came from others.

    The most important suggestion is getting the money out of politics, so these guys can’t be bought off by special interests, and need the voter, NOT campaign cash to stay in their jobs. I realize 90% of Democrats and about 99% of Republicans are tainted right now, but the next generations will never make it if the Waltons and Kochs continue to stovepipe US wealth out of the economy.

    We can also solve a lot of problems right now by insisting our media present all relevant sides of an issue instead of those that benefit their parent corporations. Americans are so misinformed on the biggest issues of the day, they thought Iraq was in on 9/11, they thought ACORN was active in the last election and they thought the background checks bill would lead to a federal registry.

    daley – we had assets inside the heart of Saddam’s weapons program assuring us right up to the last second that there were no threats, nothing active, that we had cleaned them all up long before.

    But let’s say I believe you, that there were some loose stockpiles you found evidence of that you are sharing with me in 2013. It doesn’t in the least change the fact that Bush took Curveball’s claims to Congress when he was told by multiple sources they were lies. Bush/Cheney didn’t send Powell out to cite the WMD that YOU claim were unaccounted for. He testified to Congress about mobile bio weapons labs that were eyewitnessed.

    It’s like a kid who got caught stealing an iPod saying it doesn’t work anyway. The WMD not cited by Bush makes no difference – we already knew Saddam was a bad guy, that he killed people but we were specifically told he was going to attack America, that he had mobile bio weapons labs, and that he tried to purchase uranium from Niger.

    You can’t possibly be going after Obama for lying to cover up Benghazi and give these statements a pass, can you? Isn’t it in the exact same category? Obama will simply say it’s a partisan witch hunt and he’d be right about that, even if he’s lying through his teeth about the video.

    You might be tired of hearing about Iraq, but the fact that the WMD lies went unprosecuted are what helped to create an air of unaccountable executive hubris Obama seems to be enjoying. This is your chickens coming home to roost.

    On the pipeline, Bush was originally following through on Clinton era dealings with the Taliban, but Enron and Halliburton came into the mix. Bush was wooing the Taliban because they stood in the way of the pipeline linking Western control to Central Asian oil and gas.

    Just four months before 9-11, Bush gives $43 million in taxpayer cash to the Taliban, over the cries of the Cato Institute that they treat women unfairly:
    http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/how-washington-funded-taliban

    But while the right was complaining about the Taliban suppressing women at the time Bush gave away our money, the left interestingly, was complaining that the Taliban was even worse for harboring Osama bin Laden, a terrorist who bombed our embassies:
    http://www.thenation.com/article/bushs-faustian-deal-taliban

    “Christina Rocca, in charge of Central Asian affairs for the U.S. government, met the Taliban ambassador to Pakistan in Islamabad on August 2, 2001.”

    “Bush also appointed as our envoy to Afghanistan Zalmay Khalilzad, who was also a former Unocal advisor… In the mid-1990’s, he briefly defended the Taliban while working as a consultant for Unocal, the oil company that was then trying to build a pipeline through Afghanistan.”
    http://www.globalpolicy.org/component/content/article/198/40163.html
    http://www.alternet.org/story/12525/the_enron-cheney-taliban_connection

    But we never stopped funding the Taliban either – during the war we routinely paid Taliban warlords not to attack our convoys. Bribes and extortion fees were common as late as 2009, reports Reuters: http://blogs.reuters.com/global/2009/08/13/who-is-funding-the-afghan-taliban-you-dont-want-to-know/

    but this was even before Obama and General Petraeus proposed exporting the Iraq “surge” strategy to Afghanistan, in which we directly pay the enemy who has been shooting at us for years to lay down their arms in exchange for cash payoffs.

    Mahalia Cab (2cdacb)


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