Patterico's Pontifications

1/13/2007

Our Senator’s Remarks Stir Controversy in the New York Times — but Not in the L.A. Times

Filed under: Dog Trainer,General — Patterico @ 2:35 pm

Why is it that the New York Times considers newsworthy Barbara Boxer’s recent remarks to Condi Rice regarding her lack of children — but the L.A. Times does not, even though Boxer is our Senator? OkieBoy looks into the question.

55 Responses to “Our Senator’s Remarks Stir Controversy in the New York Times — but Not in the L.A. Times”

  1. Words can’t describe my disgust with Boxer’s incredibly mean-spirited jab at Rice. What is the LAT thinking???

    Bradley J. Fikes (1c6fc4)

  2. I think it’s pretty clear that Boxer was pointing out that the people making Iraq policy haven’t had to pay familial consequences for our prolonged occupation there. I don’t think that it is an unreasonable point to raise.

    One must have a pretty wild and petty imagination to interpret Boxer’s comments as being critical of Condi for not having children.

    Come on, guys. When are you going to grow up?

    [It’s a one-off of the chickenhawk argument, which I didn’t think you subscribed to. Then again, you never responded to my point that you were implying I am a coward for not going to Iraq, even as you post blog comments without telling anyone your full name — something that would take far less courage than going to Iraq, but which you still apparently lack the courage to do. — P]

    The Liberal Avenger (c93dac)

  3. And since when did personal considerations become a good basis for making decisions of public policy?

    That line of argument is so tired. One might as well say a water official would knowingly agree to harmful elements in a public water supply because he lives in a different district and wouldn’t have to drink the water. It is an accusation of ethical negligence, to say the least.

    Anwyn (a130c1)

  4. Above comment directed in response to Liberal Avenger.

    Anwyn (a130c1)

  5. Obviously LA read’s the garbage on Huffington’s bloog.

    Dubya (c16726)

  6. …just part of the lefty echo chamber.

    Dubya (c16726)

  7. Since Boxer admitted she doesn’t have anyone involved, is she gonna shut up about Iraq now?

    sharon (dfeb10)

  8. The point is that miltary families are the ones who pay the price for the failed war. Barbara Boxer was articulating the fact that the decision makers – herself included – don’t pay a familial price.

    Who speaks for the military families? I would argue that Boxer was attempting to speak for the military families.

    As an advocate for escalation, Condi Rice is NOT speaking for military families, the vast majority of whom do NOT want to see an escalation.

    Your wonderful little war has turned out to be a worse nightmare than any of us could have imagined. It says a great deal about you and your war when the talking point Republicans distilled from that meeting had nothing to do with the war itself and only served to make a false partisan attack on an opponent of the war.

    In other words: the war is going so poorly and the “escalation” is so ill-advised that instead of seeking intelligent debate on the issue the best the Republicans can come up with is character assassination.

    You sound like children.

    The Liberal Avenger (c93dac)

  9. The point is that military families don’t make policy, nor do advocates for military families. Advocates for the interest of the nation make policy. Who the hell are you to say what “the vast majority” of military families want?

    A worse nightmare? For you, personally, LA? If not, then by your own logic you have no right to speak.

    Anwyn (a130c1)

  10. Apparently active uniformed members of the military oppose the “surge” 60%+ against. Bush said he’d listen to his generals. The generals he just swapped out last week were all against the surge.

    Tell me, then: if the majority of servicemen and women oppose the surge, is the administration really speaking on their behalf when they advocate an escalation of the war?

    The Liberal Avenger (c93dac)

  11. Hey, Lunatic Appeaser:

    We’re all paying the price for this war being pursued in a pansy-assed reactionary mode while wringing our hands about what the rest of the world thinks about us. Boxer and the rest of the disloyal opposition are making us the laughingstock of the planet. Is it any wonder the jihadis think they can dominate us?

    Iraq is a sideshow of this war: the real battles lie ahead when our “leaders” finally understand and acknowledge the true enemy is political Islam and the mullahs and ayatolahs screaming “jihad,” not the terrorists who battle to impose it on the world. Unfortunately it’s going to take something bigger than 9/11 to get “humanitarian liberals” like you to wake up and smell the corpses.

    Just as we crushed a religious/political Shinto culture that was determined to dominate the world in 1945, we need to crush this religious/political Islamist culture that is determined to dominate the world today. The fountain of that culture is both the Islamic Republic of Iran and the Wahabi radicals supported by our “pals” in Saudi Arabia.

    We took Saddam’s government out in 3 weeks when the Iranians couldn’t do it in 8 years. How long do you think the Iranian government can stand against a determined USofA? The Saudis won’t lift a finger to stop us and will promptly silence their Wahabbis.

    Pray that day comes soon instead of haughtily looking down your nose at those who see what’s real.

    Dubya (c16726)

  12. The generals he just swapped out last week were all against the surge.

    The generals he just swapped out were failing to get the job done.

    Dubya (c16726)

  13. Apparently active uniformed members of the military oppose the “surge” 60%+ against.

    Back that up.

    If I was a serviceman there now and saw the Congress “acting like children” to use your analogy and saw the Iraqi gov’t opposing us crushing the militias and troublemakers, I’d likely be against sending more toops into the fray.

    If Congress gets their shit together and supports the troops like they all say they do (out of one side of their mouths) and the Iraqi gov’t gets behind crushing the militias, your “polls” will change overnight.

    Dubya (c16726)

  14. “For I myself am a soldier, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, ‘Go,’ and he goes; and that one, ‘Come,’ and he comes. I say to the other, ‘Do this,’ and he does it.”

    The nobility of the soldier is obedience. The nobility of the slave is defiance.

    LA is projecting his slave mentality upon our soldiers.

    nk (8214ee)

  15. Tell me, then: if the majority of servicemen and women oppose the surge, is the administration really speaking on their behalf when they advocate an escalation of the war?

    Nobody ever said the administration is or should be speaking on behalf of servicemen. Not even you, Lib. Av. You said somebody should speak on behalf of military families.

    Completely discounting and evading, meanwhile, the points I’ve made that 1) Military families (nor servicemen/women in the ranks, since you brought it up)do not make policy. Advocates for the interest of the nation, not the individual soldier, make policy. 2) Stating that one of those policy makers can afford to deliberately put out a policy that will cause more harm than good because he/she doesn’t have a son or daughter in the military is an accusation of breach of ethics, to say the very least. Boxer’s accusation, which was the subject of the post. If you recall.

    Anwyn (a130c1)

  16. if the civil war was fought only by those sent by their family, the south would have left the union land slavery would be alive and well. all wars would be won only by the fanatics and we would all be serving a dictator

    robert wallis (a25ea5)

  17. i applaud barbara boxer for her remarks. she was just making the point that neither she nor condi rice had children of draftable age. nothing wrong with that. the next 3000 american soldiers to die in iraq are gonna have to come from somewhere, and the senator was just illustrating that other, less visible families will be paying a terrible price for condi and dubya’s policies.

    besides, inquiring minds want to know, what _is_ the story on condi? no man, no kids…lesbian? asexual? hermaphroditic? extraterrestrial alien? you wanna be our secretary of state, we wanna know a little more about you.

    assistant devil's advocate (43b476)

  18. So, single women should stay out of politics? Is that what Boxer is saying? That Rice ought to get a man and start having kids? To say that it’s a riff off of “chickenhawk” is too kind, Patrick. It’s that combined with sexism. At least.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  19. The Democrats have an awfully twisted way to support the troops by undermining and negating all that those who have been wounded and those that have died have accomplished, and they have accomplished much. If one goes back to before the beginning of this war, Bush told the Congress and the country that this would be a long and tough conflict. Iraq is actually only one of many fronts in the West’s war against Islamofascism.

    Now that Bush’s words have become fact, many of those Dems that voted for the war have changed their minds, and want to retreat and leave. Some no doubt do so with the conviction of despair over the loss of American lives, but my guess is that most are simply following their nutroot base, trying to keep their seats in ’08. Isn’t it interesting how many of them wanted to increase the number of troops in Iraq, until that became Bush administration policy. Now they can’t deplete our forces there fast enough.

    That sure sends a powerful signal to Syria and Iran, and also to the Chinese and the Russians — hope no one thinks that those guys are really our buddies!

    Thanks for the link Patrick.

    OkieBoy (112216)

  20. ADA–

    thanks for illustrating my sexism charge so clearly.

    Kevin Murphy (0b2493)

  21. besides, inquiring minds want to know, what _is_ the story on ada? no man, no kids…lesbian? asexual? hermaphroditic? extraterrestrial alien?

    nk (50d578)

  22. less visible families will be paying a terrible price for NOT IMPLEMENTING condi and dubya’s policies.

    Dubya (c16726)

  23. There is no woman alive who could possibly be mistaken about Boxer’s intent and goals when speaking those words. That was a very specific attack against another woman, which took a very specific and instantly recognizable form.

    Boxer might as well have whipped out her cat claws and taken a swipe at Condi while speaking. Again, there isn’t a woman alive who failed to understand exactly what Boxer said and why.

    Federal Dog (9afd6c)

  24. The great Uterine Conspiracy:

    Cindy Sheehan: Bush lied and killed my son; join Mothers Against the War

    Carmella Soprano: I hate Bush, vote for Kerry; won’t you join the MOB? Mothers Opposed to Bush.

    Nancy Pellosi: the granny 1.5 heartbeats from the Presidency

    Barbara Boxer: only mothers make good policy decisions

    Hillary Clinton: there’s never been a mother as candidate for President. Vote for me and get “twofers.”

    Dubya (c16726)

  25. Oh for heaven’s sake… I haven’t read all of the comments yet, but I see at the top Leftist Acolyte jumping to the late-issued memo on how to treat this story that is being spread.

    I watched the tape, I read the news stories. Babs Boxer not only trotted out the perfidious chickenhawk meme, but then quite pointedly attempted to pull moral authority because Dr. Rice hasn’t bred to Babs specifications.

    In deference to Patterico, I won’t repost what I would have said to Babs for pulling “my uterus is better than yours” schtick, but it is also interesting to note that that few left-feminist site that also got the memo and are now actually commenting are putting the spin on how Dr. Rice is being “kept deep in the closet” [wink wink nudge nudge].

    Darleen (543cb7)

  26. besides, inquiring minds want to know, what _is_ the story on condi? no man, no kids…lesbian? asexual? hermaphroditic? extraterrestrial alien? you wanna be our secretary of state, we wanna know a little more about you.

    Geez, ada, did you have the same requirement for David Souter?

    Darleen (543cb7)

  27. To expound on my #11 comment:

    Take this memo and substitute the word “Islamist” for the words “Shintoism” and “Shinto” and substitute the words “Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Indonesia, and Afghanistan” for the word “Japanese” and you have the most viable Strategy For Victory in the war on terrorism.

    Dubya (c16726)

  28. Laura Bush said essentially the same thing about Condi in this People Magazine interview:

    [Link]

    Nothing like a bunch of puffed up wingnuts feigning outrage over nothing.

    How’s that war going, folks?

    Remember, nobody in the Bush Administration has ever lied about Iraq because they believed what they were saying when they said it!

    The Liberal Avenger (c93dac)

  29. Laura Bush said essentially the same thing about Condi in this People Magazine interview

    Jaysus on a Pony, you did get a memo, didn’t you? I’m seeing that irrelevant quote tossed up yet again….

    There is a world of difference between speculating on why Dr. Rice might herself choose not to run (“it’s rough without close family”) and Bab’s “you have no moral authority because you haven’t bred” judgement on Dr. Rice’s personal choices.

    And, btw, LA… YOU don’t have a uterus, I DO and I have bred, so my moral authority trumps yours so STFU on this subject.

    Your rules, LA.

    Darleen (543cb7)

  30. Err, it does not look like “essentially the same thing” to me:

    “Nancy Pelosi shattered Congress’s glass ceiling by becoming the first female Speaker of the House. Do you think there’s anything a woman would do differently with the Presidency?
    THE PRESIDENT: I think it depends on the individual, but there’s no doubt in my mind a woman could do the job.
    Mrs. Bush: I agree. But it isn’t easy to live here. Dr. (Condoleezza) Rice, who I think would be a really good candidate, is not interested. Probably because she is single, her parents are no longer living, she’s an only child. You need a very supportive family and supportive friends to have this job.”

    nk (5e5670)

  31. Translation:

    “An unmarried woman without children is incapable of being president.”

    The Liberal Avenger (c93dac)

  32. YOU don’t have a uterus, I DO and I have bred…

    Good lord – please – don’t remind us.

    The Liberal Avenger (c93dac)

  33. LA, when you have a post on you site entitled Condi the childless negro dyke, (written by Sirkowski, not you), you’re going to have somewhat of a difficult time telling us how the lovely Mrs Boxer’s comments were not mean-spirited.

    Dana (556f76)

  34. LA wrote:

    Translation:

    “An unmarried woman without children is incapable of being president.”

    Actually, it said nothing at all about being president; it referred to running for president.

    Dana (556f76)

  35. “Condi the childless negro dyke,”

    It would be difficult to jam more rage and racist hatred into a mere five words. That site is raw sewage.

    Federal Dog (9afd6c)

  36. The assistant devil wrote:

    besides, inquiring minds want to know, what _is_ the story on condi? no man, no kids…lesbian? asexual? hermaphroditic? extraterrestrial alien? you wanna be our secretary of state, we wanna know a little more about you.

    Why is it that our liberal friends think that we should never discriminate against homosexuals, that we ought to allow same-sex “marriage,” and that homosexuals are perfetly normal people, just like us — until they get a chance to slam a conservative by casting doubts on his sexuality?

    Dana (556f76)

  37. “Condi the childless negro dyke”?

    Jesus.

    LA, aren’t you embarrassed by that?

    Really.

    Patterico (a8fa4a)

  38. “Why is it that our liberal friends think that we should never discriminate against homosexuals, that we ought to allow same-sex “marriage,” and that homosexuals are perfetly normal people, just like us — until they get a chance to slam a conservative by casting doubts on his sexuality?”

    They don’t believe any of these principles, as this and other leftist attacks on gays have proven beyond all possible doubt. The left’s true hatred and anger explode at the drop of a hat, as witnessed in their rash of recent homophobic attacks, including the one you cite.

    Federal Dog (9afd6c)

  39. Fed, to be fair, LA’s site is a group blog (even though LA is the site owner), and he didn’t write that article. The guy (?) who did styles himself Sirkowski, is (I think) a Canadian (don’t they have same sex marriage there?), and whose vocabulary is limited to one adjective.

    LA’s site isn’t raw sewage (and I troll there on occasion), but a turd does float to the top every once in a while.

    Dana (556f76)

  40. @nk:
    my own personal situation might be newsworthy if i were a high-ranking public official. so far, you’re the only person to inquire about it in 2007.
    @darleen:
    i had never heard of souter before he was nominated, and he was confirmed well before anybody could figure out who he was. with a supreme court justice, all that matters is their votes and opinions, and i’ll take a gay justice who agrees with me over a straight one who doesn’t. with administration officials, i’m a little more inquisitive. who is this woman who talks to the president every day? is it true that she’s the oldest, most powerful virgin in the world? for years everybody’s been saying how brilliant she is, ok, where is the evidence for this proposition and why can’t she talk some sense into the president?

    identity is all; from it flows outlook, and then in turn, words and actions. i like to know who it is i’m being asked to vote for. one thing that bugged me about the first president bush: i could never figure out if he was a texan or a new englander, he was trying to be both at the same time to capture a favorite-son candidate aura from two highly disparate regions with mutually exclusive identity aspects. i distrust people who reshape their identities to appeal to voters; it suggests to me that they have a weak personal identity or no identity at all.

    assistant devil's advocate (38d85f)

  41. Translation:

    “An unmarried woman without children is incapable of being president.”

    LA…I suggest you take a remedial reading course concentrating on comprehension.

    I mean that, of course, when you decide to actually use your brain rather than your gonards for thinking.

    Darleen (543cb7)

  42. identity is all

    Your problem in a nutshell, ada.

    Darleen (543cb7)

  43. yes darleen, it’s tough being a straight, middle-aged white man, i just get up every day and keep on keeping on, like gladys knight suggested. thank you for your sympathy.

    assistant devil's advocate (38d85f)

  44. I just visited the Lunatic Apologist’s site and now I get it…

    His site’s been so badly polluted and overrun by potty-mouthed, conspiracy-loving, Bush-hating, retarded attack dogs that he has to come over here for R&R and (mostly) logical debate.

    Dubya (c16726)

  45. ada

    I don’t deal in identity politics. It is the antithesis of a ideology that holds individuals responsible for their own behavior.

    Darleen (543cb7)

  46. “I don’t deal in identity politics.”

    Good call considering it’s Martin Luther King
    Day. Did you oppose the concept of Women’s
    Sufferage, as well?

    Semanticleo (e8f396)

  47. Semanticleo

    “identity politics” is collectivism and in it one’s authenticity as a “woman/black/gay/asian/mother, et al” becomes dependant on how in lockstep one is with the Revealed Political Truthiness of that group.

    Thus, Dr. Rice is “fair game” for Babbling Boxer, since she is an inauthentic black. Regardless of Dr. Rice’s own accomplishments, she can be attacked on gender, “race” and even her use of her reproductive organs because she doesn’t hew to Boxer’s orthodoxy.

    We honor Dr. King due to his accomplishments, not his melanin level.

    Darleen (543cb7)

  48. Regardless of one’s definition of the term, it seems the derogation to which you refer is an unfortunate adjunct of the enmity resulting from Dr. Rice’s
    cognitive dissonance. Clearly, she is suffering
    enough from her association with GWB and it is unnecessary to bring gender or race into the discussion in order to fully discredit her role
    in this administration.

    Semanticleo (e8f396)

  49. “Regardless of one’s definition of the term, it seems the derogation to which you refer is an unfortunate adjunct of the enmity resulting from Dr. Rice’s cognitive dissonance.”

    Can anyone translate, please?

    Federal Dog (9afd6c)

  50. Federal Dog

    shorter Semanticleo: “It’s Skeeza’s own fault.”

    Darleen (543cb7)

  51. Thanks, Darleen.

    I am now, painfully enough, having Amiri Baraka flashbacks, but I now get Semanticleo’s unique semantics.

    Federal Dog (9afd6c)

  52. […] At Patterico’s there is a great thread of comments on this topic. Be sure and check those out! […]

    “Okie” on the Lam » Sen. Barbara Boxer Slams Condi For Being Childless — An LA Times Update (e2cef7)

  53. The man without a shift key on his keyboard wrote:

    with a supreme court justice, all that matters is their votes and opinions, and i’ll take a gay justice who agrees with me over a straight one who doesn’t. with administration officials, i’m a little more inquisitive. who is this woman who talks to the president every day? is it true that she’s the oldest, most powerful virgin in the world? for years everybody’s been saying how brilliant she is, ok, where is the evidence for this proposition and why can’t she talk some sense into the president?

    identity is all; from it flows outlook, and then in turn, words and actions. i like to know who it is i’m being asked to vote for. one thing that bugged me about the first president bush: i could never figure out if he was a texan or a new englander, he was trying to be both at the same time to capture a favorite-son candidate aura from two highly disparate regions with mutually exclusive identity aspects. i distrust people who reshape their identities to appeal to voters; it suggests to me that they have a weak personal identity or no identity at all.

    Well, ada, from what you wrote, you must think it completely justified for whites to vote solely for white candidates, since “identity is all; from it flows outlook, and then in turn, words and actions.” After all, from your point of view, a black politician could never put his country ahead of his race. Keith bin Ellison should, of course, be kicked out of Congress and shipped to the Middle East, given that, under the ada criterion, he’s incapable of being anything other than a Muslim congressman.

    Dana (556f76)

  54. identity is all; from it flows outlook, and then in turn, words and actions. i like to know who it is i’m being asked to vote for. one thing that bugged me about the first president bush: i could never figure out if he was a texan or a new englander, he was trying to be both at the same time to capture a favorite-son candidate aura from two highly disparate regions with mutually exclusive identity aspects. i distrust people who reshape their identities to appeal to voters; it suggests to me that they have a weak personal identity or no identity at all.

    Shorter ada: “i couldn’t pigeonhole him with a stereotype, so i found my own!”

    OHNOES (3b3653)

  55. #46 ““I don’t deal in identity politics.”

    Good call considering it’s Martin Luther King
    Day.”

    Yes it was, given that King steadfastly opposed the vicious destruction of identity politics:

    “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character.”

    Federal Dog (9afd6c)


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