Patterico's Pontifications


Two Unrelated Thoughts That Are Actually Quite Related

Filed under: General,Humor — Patterico @ 12:03 am

First, Ace of Spades:


From: Karl “Ace of Spades” Rove

To: The Dextrosphere

Re: Your apparent mental retardation

Stop linking the foaming, insipid Glenn Greenwald.

. . . .

Not even Glenn Greenwald knows who the fuck Glenn Greenwald is. The other day, he was buying some batteries at Radio Shack, and, per their procedures, they asked him his name. “I have no idea who I am,” he’s reported to have said.

. . . .

I swear to Satan All Mighty, if one of you drooling imbeciles knee-jerkedly links to this no-talent no-account nobody again, I’m going to send Dick Cheney after you dressed in his “Gimp” outfit and a hunting cap.

Good points all — and there’s much more at the link.

Second, a quote from an excellent movie I just finished watching tonight: “American History X.” If you haven’t seen it, I highly recommend it. Here’s a memorable quote that sums up the moral:

Hate is baggage. Life’s too short to be pissed off all the time. It’s just not worth it.

Those are the two unrelated thoughts. Ace’s and the movie’s.

Now. Here’s the synthesis of Ace’s point and the movie’s point.

I hate utter dishonesty. But my hate is baggage. It pisses me off and upsets me. It gets my blood pressure up.

If some people are actually paying attention to the utter dishonesty — like if it is coming from a large media organ like the Los Angeles Times that people actually pay attention to — maybe getting pissed off now and then is worth it.

For the public good.

If some random dishonest leftist douchebag is dishonest — it’s not worth it to get upset over.

[Said to self, with head bowed, eyes clenched shut, and forehead furrowed with concentration:] End the Glenn Greenwald posts, Patterico. End them. Yes, he’s a liar. Yes, he’s a putz. But he’s also not worth your time.

Life’s too short to be pissed off all the time. It’s just not worth it.

Serenity now.

51 Responses to “Two Unrelated Thoughts That Are Actually Quite Related”

  1. I must say it’s been amusing to watch two lawyers in a cage match.

    Steven Den Beste (99cfa1)

  2. That was the point of my comment in your original Greenwald post, Patterico:

    Misha engages in chest-thumping militaristic hyperbole on his site. It only takes about five minutes to realize that. That’s his style. The late Acidman favored it, too. Anyone that takes it seriously enough to condemn it really has too much time on his/her hands.

    Unfortunately that troll Steve took this to mean that I approve of Misha’s commentary. *shrugs* I could care less what some troll thinks of me.

    Go thou and do likewise.

    Robert (91f2c5)

  3. Obviously, Patterico doesn’t appreciate the self-contradictory yet non-self-refuting nature Greenwaldian irony and satire.

    Only a select few do.

    BumperStickerist (002671)

  4. Life’s too short to be pissed off all the time. It’s just not worth it.

    It is indeed, so just let it go dude.

    Yeah, Greenwald is a douchebag. He was before this and he will be afterwards. I guess its worth pointing out once in a while but I wouldn’t get heavily invested in trying to force him to correct his rot.

    Its pointless. He has that odd combination of fantasy, dishonesty and leftism that results in some of the most bizarre nonsense on the web.

    The sad thing is Greenwald is really one of the top 10 or so left-bloggers. That’s right, Greenwald is one of the left’s top thinkers.


    Dwilkers (a1687a)

  5. I swear to Satan All Mighty, if one of you drooling imbeciles knee-jerkedly links to this no-talent no-account nobody again, I’m going to send Dick Cheney after you dressed in his “Gimp” outfit and a hunting cap.

    Ooh! Ooh! Another death threat from the Right! Or at least, an I’m-gonna-shoot-and-injure-you-accidentally-on-purpose threat. Once again the Right remains curiously silent about its own most violent elements.

    Zen Grünwald, Esq. (f52b4f)

  6. Life’s too short to be pissed off all the time. It’s just not worth it.

    Don’t give Greenwald any anger. He doesn’t rate it. But derision, on the other hand, he has coming to him in spades. If a pinch of disgust makes it in there, ah well…

    Pablo (efa871)

  7. [The following Glenn Greenwald comment contains yet another lie. He says I deleted a comment that pointed out my former praise for Misha back in January 2004. (I used to watch Bill O’Reilly, too. Tastes change.) Greenwald’s accusation is flatly untrue. I did not delete the comment. I approved the comment from moderation. I explain more fully in an update to this post. Greenwald has no apology for his misstatement about me, choosing to rely on this distraction to evade responsibility for his misstatement, which I now believe was a knowing lie and not just irresponsible. — Patterico]

    As I learned from my comments section yesterday, it turns out that — while denying the central point of my point: that you condemned the Deb Frisch comments with such melodrama and flamboyance, you ignore equally bad rhetoric coming from people like Misha — you knew of evidence which proved that point completely, but you concealed it. Namely, Misha came to your little blog here and, right here, in front of your anti-bad-discourse nose, he advocated the summary execution of judges. And, of course, you attacked him for it the way you attacked Deb Frisch, because – as you’ve been screaming for the last two days everywhere you can go, you are not guilty of the inconsistency and double standards of which I’ve accused you, which makes me a “liar.”

    Oh, wait – no, you didn’t condemn him. In fact, you did the opposite. When you saw Misha advocating the murder of judges on your blog, you wrote a whole separate post and expressly welcomed him to your blog.

    And now that this has been revealed (by a commenter whose post you shamefully, though understandably, deleted), you suddenly decide that you want to end your obsession with writing posts about me, calling me a liar and douchebag, and other assorted high-level and oh-so-piercing attacks.

    I think it’s clear who the liar was all along — that would be person who claimed it was a “lie” to apply the point of my post to him, even though there probably is no blogger to whom that point applies more thoroughly, and then suddenly decided he didn’t want to talk about it anymore once conclusive of his dishonesty emerged.

    If I had the power to invent a fact to rebut your hysterical obsession over the last couple days, I don’t think I could have invented anything better than the fact that Misha spewed his violence-inciting rhetoric right here, in front of your face, and you then WELCOMED him to your blog. Isn’t it time to hear again about how much you hate Deb Frisch and her horrible comments. You’re in a perfect position to dole out those lectures. Your history definitely entitles you to lead the charge against hateful rhetoric.

    Yeah, great – you write posts about how you don’t like Ann Coulter. Congratulations. Even Michelle Malkin does that. My point never was, as was painfully clear, that every single blogger to whom I linked never once, in their lifetimes, condemned someone on the Right for excessive rhetoric. Most people on the Right love to do exactly that with, for instance, Fred Phelps or Ann Coulter to show how fair-minded they are.

    The point was that those who engaged in the condemnation rituals aimed at Deb Frisch overlook and even condone far worse behavior from the opinion leaders in their party. The primary, but not only, example I cited was Misha. And despite your petulant and shrieking denials, it turns out that you are the Poster Child for the very hypocrisy and intellectual dishonesty which I was highlighting.

    Apology and retraction, indeed. I wouldn’t hold my breath for those if I were you. But I will give you credit for one thing – you picked an excellent time to declare your obsessive battle to be at an end. And a rather ignominous end it is.

    Glenn Greenwald (7a0fe5)

  8. It isn’t worth trying to debate with these people. They are talking to themselves and to their followers and any attempt to interact is met with screaming rants like the one above. It is a sort of teenage posturing that will go on endlessly if the more mature party doesn’t end it and go on with more important things. That doesn’t mean it is useless to point out lies and errors. It does mean that trying to convince someone who cannot be educated that he is mistaken is a waste of time and bandwidth. It is also characteristic of trolls that responding to them is what they seek, not debate. This sort of stuff wrecked Usenet groups.

    Mike K (416363)

  9. Talk about your projection, Patterico.

    You have been every bit as dishonest over this whole brouhaha as anyone else. You are not the paragon of virtue that you and your heavenly choir of sycophants here think you to be.

    I’m no angel, but I know it. You, on the other hand, look in the mirror and think you see a halo and wings.

    As they say, it’s your place…and I do respect the fact that you’d even let me say that to you.

    (Prediction, the expected satirical response from a sycophant would include a sarcastic reference to one’s self as a sycophant. I’m guessing it will be too difficult a Pavlovian response to avoid acting on.)

    Nevertheless, your own words paint you as no more honest than Greenwald and more than usually a lot less. Demand an apology and retraction for that.

    Nash (d66115)

  10. Glenn,

    Re the disappeared comment from Sev, Patterico will maintain that since it is now there, it never disappeared. But that is a lie. It did disappear. That may have been because of the “comments” problem that Patterico claimed occurred, but the fact is it did disappear and for Patterico to now continue to say “it’s there” as if this proves there was never any doubt about the status of Sev’s comment, which contained the damning evidence of Patterico’s own hypocrisy, is further proof of his intellectual dishonesty.

    [No. Nash’s accusation is what is false. I did not remove the comment. I explain in an update to this post. I have had problems with comments lately, and those problems PREDATED THESE ACCUSATIONS. Ask Jim Treacher whether I have had problems. — Patterico]

    Were he honest, he would acknowledge that Sev’s comment DID disappear for some period.

    This discussion is the very definition of irony: Patterico lamenting your “dishonesty” while maintaining a string of lies himself.

    Nash (d66115)

  11. Lastly, over at Glenn’s place, Sev provides screenshots of Patterico’s comment section BEFORE the damning comment disappeared and after it had been removed. As anyone can see now, it’s back.

    And as Sev notes, he earlier posted the same comment and THAT one was removed. Not one other person has mentioned that they had a comment disappeared like that. That is the reason Sev started taking screenshots in the first place.

    The “it’s there” dodge is a lie. Patterico, you must really loathe yourself, if you hate dishonesty so much.

    [No. It is not a lie. It is the God’s honest truth. You don’t like me because we once got into a pissing match in comments and I showed you up, Nash. People should understand that. But I am not a liar. Screw you for saying so. Have a nice day. — Patterico]

    Nash (d66115)

  12. Although I cannot approve of the behavior, sometimes it’s just fun watching monkeys throw poo at each other.

    Wesson (c20d28)

  13. This discussion is the very definition of irony: Patterico lamenting your “dishonesty” while maintaining a string of lies himself.

    I know. Just like he spent the last 24 hours running around to every blog he could find calling me a “liar” for including him in my Deb-Frisch/Misha post, when as it turn that he is literally the best example I could have found, since he is someone who both (a) flamboyantly and endlessly condemend Deb Frisch for her comments but also (b) praised Misha and welcomed him right after he advocated the summary execution of judges on Patterico’s blog (and that leaves aside all of the vile Jeff Goldstein comments which he excused as merely humorous, as amply documented by Sadly, No).

    As I said, if I had the power to invent facts to vividly illustrate the type of hypocrisy and double standards I was highlighting, I don’t think I could have invented ones as perfect as Patterico’s behavior – someone who self-righteously condemns vile comments coming from an obscure nobody on the Left while defending and welcoming equally bad (at least) comments when coming from more influential people on the Right.

    The idea that I’m a “liar” for including him as one of the examples is beyond ironic, given that he is the best example one could find.

    Glenn Greenwald (7a0fe5)

  14. You left out the part where Patterico was demanding condemnation from other bloggers, Glenn. That was your point, remember? Or did your point change again?

    So, when did he do that, Liar?

    Pablo (efa871)

  15. Why bother? Glenn is just going to keep lying. His followers will accept anything he says and his overlords at Townhouse won’t fund him when he tells the truth. It’s in his best interest to lie, since he has probably has no morality in the first place.

    Greenwald = Tar Baby

    J (022fa6)

  16. […] He’s a liberal, which ought to more than adequately answer that question. And of course, we also have the priceless (and accurate) “Glenn Greenwald: Douchebag,” which pretty well covers it, really. Later, Patterico says: If some people are actually paying attention to the utter dishonesty — like if it is coming from a large media organ like the Los Angeles Times that people actually pay attention to — maybe getting pissed off now and then is worth it. […]

    Cold Fury » Blog Archive » What it’s really all about (6f4592)

  17. You don’t like me because we once got into a pissing match in comments and I showed you up, Nash. People should understand that. But I am not a liar. Screw you for saying so. Have a nice day. — Patterico]

    I don’t like you? You showed me up? People should understand that?

    I quake in your presence, Patterico. Anyone willing to fall back on “I’m badder and better than you…no tag backs” in a verbal joust comes to the joust with far, far superior skills and weapons than I could ever hope to obtain. I’m left speechless…by your persistent projection and self-loathing.

    You are a liar, though. It’s a character fault you might hope to reduce over time.

    And my day is getting better by the minute, thank you so much for mentioning it.

    “We once got into a pissing match in comments and I showed you up” is a magical talisman that you should carry with you always, Patterico. From now on, any time I mention you I will be certain to repeat that “we once got into a pissing match in comments and [you] showed [me] up.” People will be awed that I came that near to greatness.

    [Tell you what. Call me a liar one more time, and when I come home I’ll find the whole comment thread and reproduce it here so people can see what an idiot you are. Go ahead. Or find it and reproduce it yourself. The whole thing. I’m not scared of it. I bet you are. — Patterico]

    Nash (d66115)

  18. Open Memo to Glenn Greenwald:

    If you don’t want to look like a fool when writing about these internet-related events, please use your super-dooper lawyer training and do eight seconds worth of your own discovery prior to posting about a comment made by a person on a thread.

    eight seconds. That’s all I ask. eight seconds.

    For example, your observation about the heinousness of Jeff Goldstein’s comment about Tim’s sister is about to take the Handbasket Express to Hell. Enjoy the ride.

    Follow this link:


    now scroll up two or three comments.

    {Note: In general it’s also not a bad idea when doing the internets-related commenting to see what the original post is about. And, for this context, Moxie’s post referenced the whole OSM ‘who’s in/who’s out’ phase of the launch, which got kind of nasty.}

    But, anyway, here’s Tim’s comment in the original thread.

    At least Roger has an Oscar nomination and Charles Johnson was a professional musician. But Jeff Goldstein and Security Mom? Who the fuck are those no talent jerks, and why would anybody pay them to write awful boring derivative unfunny suckass posts?

    Posted by: Tim at November 17, 2005 05:35 PM

    Tim –

    Jeff, just described by Tim as a no-talent jerk who writes boring derivative unfunny suckass posts, then followed up with the ‘touching your sister’ comment.

    Reasonable people in either the left or rightwing commentariat might consider Jeff’s comment about touching Tim’s sister in light of Tim’s comment referencing Jeff.

    They might.

    No, actually they would.

    Those reasonable people would then conclude that it’s ‘schoolyard banter’ sort of stuff.

    The non-threatening nature of Jeff’s comment is clear for a couple of reasons: 1) it’s not evident that Jeff even knows if Tim has a sister (meanwhile Deb Frisch went so far as to ask detailed questions about Jeff’s kid before doing her ‘french kiss’ thing) and 2) the sister in question doesn’t make another appearance in the thread. Presumably, the sister is being used by Jeff as a rhetorical device rather than, you know, discussed as the actual object of unwanted physical attention.

    Now, had Tim posted something like ‘Bush’s Medicare Plan B ended up screwing my sister out of the medications she needed, now what’s going to happen?’ and Jeff said his bit about touching the sister, then you’d have a point.

    But you don’t.

    You seldom do.

    For example, Patterico made a point of saying he had technical difficulties with his site as have other bloggers. For you to read as much into Sven’s analysis as you do and ascribe as much bad faith to Patterico over this makes you, well, not only a douche bag, but one that doesn’t know much about the technical aspects of blogging.

    I look forward to your detailed analysis on how airlines really send ‘lost’ luggage to blackops CIA depots for analysis. Because, you know, that might actually happen. Ask Larry Johnson.

    But, Glenn, please (or Mona, if you could ask him) for the love of God, *simply* *take* *eight* *seconds* *and* *do* *some* *original* *research* rather than relying on research by guys named Retardo Montalban or Sven you’d be better able to have more points.

    And that would be more interesting.



    BumperStickerist (002671)

  19. By all means, liar, please do reproduce it here. It will be a grand meta example of you showing me up now by showing how you showed me up then, and I wouldn’t want to deny you that enjoyment. As I said, I bow to the brilliance of anyone who thinks “Sorry guys. I win this round — big-time” is an effective rhetorical parry.


    Day job time? You wouldn’t lie about that as well, would you?

    By the way, a smallish instance of you lying? It’s a lie by omission–when you first acknowledged the existence of Sev and the comment gone missing, you said Sev was a liar because his comment was there (twice). At the time, you failed to mention that it HAD disappeared. You were happy to leave the impression that Sev’s comments had never disappeared, whether because your comment system is misbehaving or for any other reason. That’s a lie of omission in my book.

    Another thing? You continue to say that Sev’s comment went into a moderation folder for you to review and that you THEN allowed it? My question for you: Are you saying that comments go into your moderation folder and onto the blog simultaneously or to the moderation folder first? Because if the latter, Sev’s screenshots contradict your testimony. They show that Sev’s comment appeared on your thread immediately upon posting (moderation not possible), then it disappeared, then it reappeared (twice).

    I await the glorious meta-ness of the doubled down (you really seem to like that phrase) slapdown I’m going to receive from you. I demand that you demand a retraction and an apology. Liar.

    Nash (d66115)

  20. Why bother? Glenn is just going to keep lying.

    Well, because it’s hilarious to watch the contortions!

    Greenwald = Tar Baby


    Pablo (efa871)

  21. Nash, you’re fool of shit. I am a regular commenter here and Patterico’s spam filter had been messing us around even before that thread. As to that particular thread, I was commenting at the time and saw comments apear, other commenters respond to them, get eaten and reappear renumbered. Just like your hero, you lie, trim, distort and twist the truth because that’s the only way you can sustain an argument. Do you want to consider that merely the fact that your bullshit is being allowed to be posted here disproves your fantasies?

    nk (77d95e)

  22. I’ll tell you, Patterico, you were right. It’s more fun to respond to the insensate clods with a light-hearted attitude.

    nk (77d95e)

  23. Misha’s posted about this phenomenon on his site:

    I’ll post excerpts here for the faint of heart Lefties who can’t click there for fear of crapping their pants:

    First off, our Imperial Welcome to all of the new commenters arriving here as a result of, we believe, this post in particular.

    Now, as you’ve no doubt noticed by now, some of your posts seem to not post at all, disappear later or you get a message that your message has been held for moderation.

    I’m sorry about that, but I have nothing to do with it.

    You see, what happens is that when you register as a new user and start commenting furiously and repeatedly (which is a Good Thing™ that I am in no way trying to discourage, post away!), Spam Karma (the nifty filter that keeps me from drowing in trackbacks from pr0n sites, credit scams and the like) “flags” you as “possible spam” and sticks you in the moderation queue for me to inspect.

    What THEN happens is that I, whenever I have the time and I try to be as diligent as possible, yank your comment back out of the swamp, which tells Spam Karma to show a little more faith in you in the future. Eventually your “karma points” will rise to the level where your commentary will be automatically accepted without me having to inspect it.

    Also, Spam Karma seems to work retroactively, which means that your initial comments may well come through but then, when Spam Karma later decides to flag one of your comments when you trigger the “snowball filter”, it pulls everything out again and puts it in moderation.

    Short version: You’re not being banned, I rarely ever ban and on the exceedingly few occasions where I’ve had to, I’ve always let the bannee know.

    It’s just a technology issue and it’ll resolve itself.

    I left off the part where Misha uses eliminationist rhetoric to describe his breakfast order at IHOP. {just kidding. It was Denny’s.}

    Obviously, Spam Karma is a Rovian device created by a Bush Kultist for the purpose of ENTRAPPING Greenwald into making spurious allegations about Patterico and/or his ilk.

    Or not.

    eight seconds, Glenn. Really.

    Is it that freaking tough to do your own research?


    BumperStickerist (002671)

  24. From today’s “Townhouse” email directive:

    “Dear comrades: Just a warning that Nash has been purged from the Movement. He will now be referred to as ‘that neocon twit.’ Interact with him at your own risk. – Kos”

    Townhouse Email (022fa6)

  25. Why aren’t YOU all furious with this latest abuse of power by the USSC legal “experts” who stripped warmaking authority from the CinC, Pentagon – the US military – real experts? The USSC is the least representative branch of the US government – where we the people have the least influence and know the least about the men and women who serve as judges for life.

    Why aren’t you defending America, and America’s laws and traditions from Justices who seek to please America’s global critics – ignoring the deadly consequences of international laws leading to tyranny across Europe? Across Europe, international nannies are playing god, treating the people like infants (“Hello Kitty” currency, kick god out of the public square), lest they open their eyes and see that their nanny-authorities are selling them into slavery with everincreasing laws to disarm the lawabiding population, stripping them – under law – of the ability to defend their lives, their families, property, ideas, beliefs – souls – from the enemy.

    Elites in positions of authority in free nations who ignore the will of the people to appease tyrants and stay in power, betray their precious heritage, their braver nighbors, their nations – outraged Misha, and should outrage every free man and woman in the world.

    Anyone of you modern legal big wigs care to defend America’s far superior “international law” – defend America, a nation that still produces heroes who are taking the harder high road daily to defend humanity – doing the work weaker European nations are unwilling to do?

    EU today:

    Seeds of hope in Iraq from Iraqis facing terrorist threats daily, surrounded by Arab neighbors who ignored the mass graves and took Saddam’s blood money for decades, with Americans “occupying” their country, posted July 8, 2006:

    “Our hearts go out to the family of the Israeli soldier who was kidnapped by some Palestinian group. We share your suffering and we fully support anything you do to free your missing soldier”
    Hassan al-Shami: Baghdad/Iraq.

    “I wonder how much time and blood it will take until Arabs and Muslims realize that the world is not the property of their ancestors and that God is not a trademark of their minds and that terror is a dead-end that leads only to more destruction.
    Israel is a civilized country defending herself from barbaric savages whose minds are made of stone…minds that do not want to believe they are living in the 21st century.
    What’s happening to the Palestinians despite its cruelty is going to be a good lesson for them to learn they must clear their community off the hateful fundamentalist terror mentality…[Quranic verse] “God will not change people until they change what’s within themselves”…but, will you change?!!”
    Abu Ayoub al-Iraqi.

    “To answer Mr. Jihad (the Palestinian from Jordan) and his advice for Iraqis: Iraqis are singing outside the Arab flock for one reason which is that they distinguish the truth from the Arab illusions. Only 13 years ago Iraqis used to speak like the rest of Arabs; equipped with the illusions of the “Zionist conspiracy” created by Islamists and pan-nationalists. But Iraqis now have discovered the bitter truth. Who is murdering Iraqis on daily basis?? Who is prolonging the stay of foreign troops? That’s the terrorists coming from Arab and Islamic countries!!
    Israel doesn’t want to become the “Great Israel” because Israelis are only several millions in this world…
    We are people with long history that we are proud of and we possess enough education and awareness, so long live the new Iraq and let Israel live as our neighbor. I’d love to say that I wish Israel could rule the entire region; better than any Arab government except for the Iraqi”
    An Iraqi in exile: Asia.

    “I just want to say that I stand in admiration and respect for the nation that wouldn’t mind destroying the world for the sake of her sons’ safety; a nation that doesn’t care about the consequences for their operations in Gaza as long as the soldier is still kidnapped and has to be set free.
    Let Arabs and Muslims learn how human life is highly valued in all non-Arab, non-Muslim countries”
    Hassan al-Shami: Baghdad/Iraq.

    “From following the participations I am gaining more faith in the maturity of thinking of my Iraqi brothers.
    Thank God.
    And to Olmert I say: Go forward and abolish the fountains of terror in Gaza”
    A free Iraqi: Baghdad.


    “The purpose of the Bill of Rights was to give Americans rights that were recognized practically nowhere else in the world at the time. The Framers did not want Americans to have the rights of people in France or the rights of people in Russia or any of the other countries on the continent of Europe at the time; they wanted them to have the rights of Americans.” – Sam Alito

    “No Jew ever blew himself up in a German restaurant.” – Wafa Sultan, Arab American psychologist, secular, free woman.

    “Only liberal societies tolerate Pacifists. In the liberal society, the number of Pacifists will either be large enough to cripple the state as a belligerent, or not. If not, you have done nothing. If it is large enough, then you have handed over the state which does tolerate Pacifists to its totalitarian neighbor who does not. Pacifism of this kind is taking the straight road to a world in which there will be no Pacifists.” – C.S. Lewis, “Why I am not a Pacifist”

    “Pacifism is objectively pro-Fascist. This is elementary common sense. If you hamper the war effort of one side you automatically help that of the other. Nor is there any real way of remaining outside such a war as the present one.” – George Orwell

    “Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those who did not return.” – Colin Powell

    “It is a worthy thing to fight for one’s freedom; it is another sight finer to fight for another man’s” – Mark Twain

    “If you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed, if you will not fight when victory will be sure and not so costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no chance of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.” – Sir Winston Churchill

    “Despite the headlines yesterday, violent crime in the US remains below levels in the 70’s 80’s and 90’s and below that of Europe, Canada and Australia.” –

    ghost (4df608)

  26. And as Sev notes, he earlier posted the same comment and THAT one was removed. Not one other person has mentioned that they had a comment disappeared like that.

    Well, I have, but it was in an e-mail to Patterico; I didn’t realize I needed to provide evidence for people who don’t like him. His comments have been messed up because of his spam filter. I’m pretty sure he doesn’t have anything against me, and none of my comments showed up for like a week. Or sometimes they showed up and then disappeared and popped up again with a different timestamp. Technical difficulties. Okay? Try to relax.

    Jim Treacher (c3be1b)

  27. Ask Jim Treacher whether I have had problems. — Patterico

    I think it is rather obvious. No need to bother Treacher…

    tbogg (d9499d)

  28. I’ve never posted here before, but good god there’s a lot of inside baseball going on. And from where did all this complaining, demanding, and criticism for the (lack of) policing or (lack of) condemnation of one petty comment or acrimonious statement start?

    The comments in this post (mostly) sound like a bunch of juveniles. And Glenn Greemwald? Never been there. No one I’ve ever read, having linked to Greenwald, has ever written anything about the item linked that has caused me to click through to Greenwald. After reading this spat, I realize my judgement was correct.

    Look at the substance of what you’re arguing about. (Hint: There is none.) Me thinks some people need to take a breather–especially from making rhetorical demands upon second parties, for what some third party has posted on their blog or web site.

    Got a beef? Take it up with the perpetrator of your outrage. “I am not my brother’s keeper.”


    Forbes (7ff51a)

  29. My goodness, Glenn Greenwald really is an idiot, isn’t he?

    N. O'Brain (5deb6d)

  30. Did you have this many moonbats commenting before the Hitzlik sock puppet story ? They seem to be like orcs rallying in response to the Dark Lord in some tower. Maybe we need some walking trees. What the hell did they call them in LotR ?

    Mike K (6d4fc3)

  31. To Forbes:

    This thread of comments is indeed a lot of “inside baseball”, and atypical overall for the blog. Hopefully you will review other threads, as this is blog is on the top of my list to visit when I have the chance (IMHO).

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  32. Boy, what a waste of time.

    Greenwald is a dickhead. Nash — dickhead.

    Move along now, nothing here.

    Matt (f67d74)

  33. Nash–

    There is a moderation folder. As a guest blogger here, I can access it. It currently contains a post from Sev, wondering whether he’s been banned yet. It also contains posts from more reputable sources, such as discount herbal you-know-what merchants.

    Posts go in that folder all the time. Automatically. Without any action from Patterico or anyone else. This comment even went into the spam queue the first time I tried to post it, where I also saw a trackback from Jeff Goldstein.

    You can pretend this is an ideological witch hunt if you like, Nash, but it looks pretty ridiculous.

    I think you’re out of your reckoning here.

    See Dubya (921613)

  34. Ents, Mike K., they are called Ents. They would readily agree that many are a bit too “hasty” in making posts. (Indeed, I even missed a typo in my previous post).

    MD in Philly (3d3f72)

  35. You didn’t give a full answer, See Dubya. Does Patterico maintain that Sev’s post did NOT get posted to the thread until AFTER he had reviewed it in the moderation folder? If so, that’s a lie and Sev can prove it.

    Nash (d66115)

  36. Pat, I just added a new category on my site, “Things that piss me off.” Sounds like you need the same one.

    Dana (3e4784)

  37. We need some ents. Maybe Entwhistle himself. Weed out these orcs. Now I’ll be accused of wanting to hang left wing bloggers. Hmmm.

    Mike K (6d4fc3)

  38. +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    You didn’t give a full answer, See Dubya. Does Patterico maintain that Sev’s post did NOT get posted to the thread until AFTER he had reviewed it in the moderation folder? If so, that’s a lie and Sev can prove it.

    Comment by Nash — 7/13/2006 @ 12:30 pm

    Per Misha’s explanation, if Sev started making comments which ended up tripping the software’s filter, his comments would have been pulled back for moderation after they’d initially been displayed in the thread.

    Whether that’s what happened is a technical ‘blog comment spam filter’ question which Patterico said is handled by another guy.

    Keep digging, Nash.

    BumperStickerist (002671)

  39. Hint to Gnash & Friends: You know those comments from “adult movie clip” and so forth? That’s because the spam filter that was causing the problem has been turned off.

    Jim Treacher (c3be1b)


    Here’s a comment I made about my disappearing comment to actus. The words that got it flagged were apparently “ugly as.” I know, it’s not positive proof, but I want to hear how you explain it. And don’t use the Deb Frisch line about Jeff Goldstein’s having tampered with it after the fact.

    I believe that Patterico discussed this very issue with commenters prior to the sh*tsquall with Greenwald at some reasonable lenght. If you think he was setting things up to be able to nuke comments that contradict his evidence, I’ve got some good conspiracy theory URLs for you.

    Dan Collins (9d319c)

  41. I think the comment conspiracy theorists need to go back to the front page and scroll down until they find the post entitled Comment Problems.

    And then, as always when facts don’t break your way, ignore it.

    Pablo (08e1e8)

  42. Comments appeared. Then disappeared. It was farked. Get over it.

    I think the name you’re searching for, Mike K, is Treebeard. :)

    Anwyn (9ca7a1)

  43. I’ll say this for you Patterico: I’ve been a dissenter here for almost a year now, giving you a hard way to go and I’ve never seen any of my comments disappear.

    But I’m disappointed. Two of arguably the best minds in the blogsphere, in my humble opinion, and what does the lofty, intellectual exchange quickly become? Each side jumping up and down and exclaiming, “Liar, liar, pants on fire!”

    Heh, better luck next time guys. If you two could stick to politics rather than resorting to personal attacks, I think the dialogue would be fascinating.

    Psyberian (dd13d6)

  44. Psyberian, if you believe Glenn Green-whatever is “one of the finest minds in the blogsphere,” then you should not be surprised that he has attacked Patterico with lies and name-calling— after all, that’s what Glenn is ubiquitous for.

    That’s like going to see a Jerry Bruckheimer-produced film, and claiming to be surprised to see loud explosions and a car chase.

    Desert Rat (d8da01)

  45. OK, Desert Rat. Who do you think is an intelligent lefty blogger who is also an attorney then? I think you’re so partisan that you can’t name another one, much less one that you like.

    Psyberian (dd13d6)

  46. “Who do you think is an intelligent lefty blogger who is also an attorney then?”

    Come on. That’s too tough.

    Mike K (416363)

  47. I’ll tell you, Patterico, you were right. It’s more fun to respond to the insensate clods with a light-hearted attitude.


    In context, coming on the heels of me telling Nash repeatedly to screw himself, that was pretty funny.

    Patterico (50c3cd)

  48. Psyberian, it doesn’t take a “partisan” to find fault with dishonesty, which is obviously Greenwald’s stock in trade. If a higher percentage of left-wing bloggers – attorneys or otherwise – are routinely dishonest than their right-wing counterparts, that’s a problem for honest lefties to deal with. It’s not something you can blame your political opponents on. We don’t blame you for Michael Savage or Debbie Schlussel. Don’t blame us for Glenn Greenwald.

    Xrlq (4ab0a3)

  49. he has attacked Patterico with lies and name-calling— after all, that’s what Glenn is ubiquitous for

    What was the name-calling?

    jade (21ca70)

  50. […] Greenwald then spammed the same comment to four other threads involving him, to make sure everyone coming to my blog to read about him would see it. The comments were left at 6:39 a.m., 6:40 a.m., 6:41 a.m., and again at 6:41 a.m.. Later, at 7:19 a.m., he left another comment on the first thread, again calling me a liar. […]

    Patterico’s Pontifications » Annotated WuzzaDem: The Facts Behind the Greenwald Sock-Puppetry (421107)

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