Politicization of the Katrina Disaster
Rosa Brooks has an op-ed in this morning’s L.A. Times raising the familiar meme of comparing Bush (recently holding a guitar) to Nero fiddling while Rome burned:
NERO FIDDLED while Rome burned.
President Bush, who’s not big on the classics, probably wasn’t thinking about this when he mugged for the cameras Tuesday, playing a guitar presented to him by country singer Mark Wills.
But with the photo now Exhibit A for many liberal bloggers, he may find the comparison hard to shake.
Rosa Brooks, who’s also not big on the classics, apparently doesn’t know that the first sentence of her op-ed is not true. Nero didn’t fiddle while Rome burned. The fiddle had not yet been invented.
But Brooks’s comparison may be even more apt than even she realizes. Contemporary accounts show that Nero took steps to help the Romans deal with the tragedy. One might question whether these steps were really sufficient, but Nero clearly didn’t get any credit for what he did do, and ended up being blamed for having caused the whole thing to begin with. His popularity suffered greatly.
And so it appears to be with President Bush.
The Wikipedia entry for Nero states:
Rumor circulated that Nero had played his lyre and sang, on top of Quirinal Hill, while the city burned. (Tacitus, Ann. xv; Suetonius, Nero xxxvii; Dio Cassius, R.H. lxii.) Over the years, this turned to a legend that Nero had fiddled as Rome burned, an impossible act as the fiddle had not yet been invented. The same accounts depict him opening his palaces to provide shelter for the homeless and arranging for food supplies to be delivered in order to prevent starvation among the survivors. However, Nero lost his chances at redeeming his reputation when he immediately produced plans of rebuilding Rome in a monumental –and less inflammable – style.
The confused population searched for a scapegoat and soon rumors held Nero responsible.
Sound familiar?
It is now emerging that President Bush personally called the governor of Louisiana to appeal for a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans, sometime before August 28. But the Administration certainly has not done much to publicize this; it is a factoid buried in an August 28 AP article, found by a Power Line reader.
Also, much as Nero was baselessly accused of having started the Rome fire, a meme has been circulating that Bush is personally to blame for the crisis in some fashion, by cutting funding to reinforce the levees. Indeed, that meme is a main point of Brooks’s column this morning. As John Cole notes, “[t]here is, however, more and more evidence that this is not the case.” Others (see here and here, for example) have noted the same thing.
Even if you believe the “levees were underfunded” meme, there’s plenty of blame to go around. It turns out that the New York Times editorial board, which has recently taken some opportunistic potshots at President Bush over the New Orleans crisis, is on record as having opposed giving the Army Corps of Engineers the money it needed to reinforce the levees.
Moving away from Nero into the present day: Brooks and others have made the point that the New Orleans disaster seems to illustrate our lack of readiness should there be a terrorist attack. They have something of a point. But what specific suggestions do they have? Stuart Buck did a serious post pointing out the resources that would be required to provide food, shelter, and water to any part of the country to respond to a disaster. Many took his post as satire (I was one of them), because the money required would be staggering. But Buck actually means it. Either way, it’s eye-opening to realize what would be required.
I will say this: Bush certainly has done little to appear to be in charge of the tragedy. It was, in my opinion, foolish for him to be seen clowning around with a guitar while this tragedy was unfolding. What clearer example could you have of a president who seems to be out of touch with the facts on the ground? And it didn’t help to release, days after the fact, pictures of the president assessing the scene from the safety of Air Force One. What more concrete demonstration could there be of a president who appears to be (literally) aloof — within view of the tragedy, but at a distance?
Kevin Murphy recently commented on this blog:
Much as I hate to see it, Bush has been surprisingly tone-deaf on this issue, almost aloof. He had an opportunity to rally America and unite us, as he did after 9/11. To say he’s squandered it would be an understatement. His political capital is rapidly draining into the muck of New Orleans. The Bush Presidency is badly damaged.
I find it hard to disagree with Kevin. Bush is not a nasty human being like Nero was, but his popularity seems likely to take it on the chin in much the same way.
UPDATE: Daou Report readers: read the whole post. No, I don’t think Nero was a great guy. Yes, I understand he scapegoated and murdered Christians. That’s why I said Bush is not a nasty human being like Nero was. Bush would never throw Christians to the lions! He likes Christians!
“It is now emerging that President Bush personally called the governor of Louisiana to appeal for a mandatory evacuation of New Orleans, sometime before August 28.”
He *personally* made a phone call. Great!
actus (518762) — 9/3/2005 @ 4:32 pmWhat the hell did you want? Him sending her a hallmark card?
You know what this is all about? Iraq.
I’m not saying Bush and the Feds don’t clearly deserve major grief for not getting today’s National Guard aid convoy into downtown New Orleans a couple of days earlier. Some people are probably dead as a result. But the commentators on Washington Week in Review seemed a little too happy when proclaiming this a “debacle” that will damage Bush politically for a long, long time. And I don’t think they were happy just because Bush has suffered a blow. I think it’s because the hurricane and its New Orleans aftermath at least seemed to solve a big problem for anti-Bush commentators and politicians. Previously, they couldn’t grouse about the Iraq War without seeming defeatist (and anti-liberationist and maybe even selfishly isolationist). Even the Clintons never figured a way out of that trap. But nature has succeded where they failed; it has opened up a way out, at least temporarily. Now Bush opponents can argue, in some cases quite accurately, that without the Iraq deployment aid would have gotten to New Orleans faster. And ‘if we can [tk] in Iraq, why can’t we [tk] in our own South?’ They aren’t being selfish. They are just asserting priorities! In short, Katrina gives them a way to talk about Iraq without talking about Iraq. No wonder Gwen Ifill smiles the “inner smile.”
The Angry Clam (a7c6b1) — 9/3/2005 @ 4:35 pmExcuse me but I believe his title is “President” Bush, NOT Bush.
SAVET (9aa169) — 9/3/2005 @ 4:45 pmPatterico,
I would quibble with your assessment of Bush a little, or just make this argument:
While I agree that Bush could’ve been more forceful in front of the cameras early on, I don’t think the 9/11 reaction and this one are good comparisons.
On September 11 and in the days following there was nationwide panic because nobody–from the government down–knew if, when or where more attacks would take place. At the time everyone was a potential target. Thus, there was a real need for Bush to appear calm, strong and resolute. People were terrified. The hurricane, while devastating and tragic, was not an act of war that amounted to a continuous threat to every citizen. In this case actions are much more relevant that posturing, in my opinion.
Sav (f539ce) — 9/3/2005 @ 4:55 pmIf Clinton were President, the press would be blaming state and local authorities. They can hardly do that here, since the Governor is a Democrat female and the Mayor is a Democrat African-American. News is skewed here, just as in Iraq, to only show the bad things; not the heroism.
bureaucrat (825e78) — 9/3/2005 @ 5:37 pmBush just can’t win… so it doesn’t matter what he does
Patterico says Bush hasn’t done a particularly good job of looking good in Katrina’s wake… but he doesn’t acknowledge that no matter what Bush did, the other side would have criticized him for it…
ThoughtsOnline (d3e296) — 9/3/2005 @ 5:59 pmLeave it to Acthole to substitute snark for substance and always miss the point. Which, in this case, is that it actually took a personal phone call from the Prez to get Gov. Blanco to do her own f’ing job.
Xrlq (428dfd) — 9/3/2005 @ 6:27 pmShe referred to the fiddling story as an “allegory,” so I don’t think you have much of a point there.
I do take your point about politicization but Bush is just looking like an idiot on this one. He’s completely tone deaf.
Tacitus (127fb9) — 9/3/2005 @ 7:07 pmI would suggest that President Bush either:
1. Is out of touch with the American people.
2. Is poor at appreciating the political impact of appearances.
3. Goes about doing what he knows his job to be and trusts that enough people of sense and goodwill understand his position.
Personally, I think #3. I don’t think he is out of touch with the american people, and to hear his enemies go on about the evil genius of Karl Rove it doesn’t seem that #2 would be a view consistent with other things.
I could be wrong, but I think a lot of failure was on city and state level, along with a populace that didn’t take appropriate measures, all compounded by the lack of appreciation for the lawlessness that would erupt to the point of car-jacking relief trucks, etc.
If the President was to do more that would have really helped I think it would have looked like declaring martial law and have the army along with the national guard oversee evacuation procedures before the storm hit. Can you imagine the flack he would get for that? “Bush takes despotism to a new level.” “Totally bypasses city and state governments and orders military to occupy a US city”.
Malkin indeed has some great links, including one of a knowledgeable person who describes what it would take to have stored by the feds to respond in 24 hrs to a major disaster affecting a million people over an area as large as the state of Utah.
This was far greater in immediate overall impact on people than 9/11. Perhaps even more than a major terrorist strike with a dirty bomb or bio/chem weapon. Those things would not wipe out the functional resources of an area the size of Utah, they would not even do the destruction in the city of New Orleans that has been done. (And in the case of a terrorist attack, the National Guard and Army would be there at combat readiness much quicker, as the need would be anticipated.)
While we have heard much about the inadequacies, we have not heard as much about the good. How many thousands have been rescued by the Coast Guard? And how many more (stranded and isolated) are still awaiting rescue? (And how many are awaiting rescue because they are afraid of going outside of their house because of the armed thugs?) Did you hear the story of the 20 year old who hot-wired a schoolbus and picked people up along the road and by pooling money they bought enough gas, water, and diapers to get to the Astrodome? I heard a report of two guys who were headed about the city with their medical equipment and armaments (two 12 gauge shotguns and two Glock handguns) who decided to turn around and leave because they didn’t want to clash with the gang in the street up ahead with the AK-47’s.
Once you clear away the false arguments of the National guard being in Iraq and budget cuts to the Army Corps of Engineers, you have a class 4 hurricane overwhelming structures designed for a class 3, and questions of logistics of who was responsible for what when. If a tremendous earthquake hit Southern California over an area as large as Utah, so powerful that it overwhelmed the integrity of structures built to resist “all but the one in a million” earthquakes, just think what a mess it would be.
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/3/2005 @ 8:12 pm“Tacitus”:
Here’s her actual statement:
One of the definitions of “allegory” is “A symbolic representation: The blindfolded figure with scales is an allegory of justice.” Brooks seems to be saying that Nero’s fiddling was a symbolic representation of self-centered leadership. Doesn’t mean she doesn’t think it really happened; if she didn’t, then it was rather odd of her to begin her op-ed with the sentence: “NERO FIDDLED while Rome burned.”
Patterico (756436) — 9/3/2005 @ 8:59 pmIt’s quite a strech to rehabilitate Nero just because Bush has been compared to him.
Scaramouche (267875) — 9/3/2005 @ 9:31 pmMay I assert my originality of this “familiar meme” in the context of the current situation? I had not seen this idea used before my post (although it is common enough that it should have occurred to many independently).
I have been pressing for federal military intervention for several days now–pleased to see the action is now fully underway.
Of course, it would be interesting to see if anyone can find an earlier instance of the meme. Probabilistically, I wouldn’t be surprised if they did.
BTW, Patterico, speaking of bias in the press, I noticed that the “Fool’s Union” reference was not picked up on yet.
Paul Deignan (664c74) — 9/3/2005 @ 9:33 pmPatterico,
Assuming that is indeed you commenting on my website – it might be nice if you respond to an email.
Dan Riehl (7910a5) — 9/3/2005 @ 9:38 pmNot much of “strech” when you consider that I’m not rehabilitating Nero. I call him a “nasty human being” in the post.
Patterico (756436) — 9/3/2005 @ 9:39 pmDan,
What are you going to do to me if I don’t respond to an e-mail of yours at lightning speed? Try to get me to a link to a video of a male stripper?
I have been at a birthday party with the kids tonight, and have been monitoring this sorry episode on my Treo. Further, when I comment, I leave an e-mail for my Hotmail account, because I don’t care if that one gets spammed, since I check it rarely.
So, be assured, I have now read your e-mail. I’m not very convinced, and I’m working on a post that may help sort it all out. At present, I don’t think you’re going to come off looking very good.
Patterico (756436) — 9/3/2005 @ 9:59 pmOn the blame game (or accountability in a democracy):
The administration bears responsibility for infrastructure oversight, a slow response, and lack of forcefullness in correcting embedded corruption. So they will get tagged with the Rome burning and the clueless meme. Bush has only himself to blame for this as he has not come out in public strongly stating policy objectives with followup (townhalls, like campaign dinners are mot sufficient).
The problems of the Democratic government in LA are too numerous to mention. Obviously, the Mayor and Governor are culpable tp the point that they should be run out of office. Alas, the
dependentscitizens of LA will have to correct that problem themselves.I am concerned that too many GOP supporters are too quick to defend that administration from just criticism. When the fault being criticised is a lack of responsiveness, this reaction does not help–especially when the GOP is the majority party in the federal government.
The best anetedote for just criticism is accepted responsibility and responsiveness. Since the minority party is absent on the issue, the entirety of this burden falls on the GOP. They must be their own best critics.
So, Eddius, rls, and others, if I am impatient with you, now you know why.
Paul Deignan (664c74) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:08 pmI am concerned that too many GOP supporters are too quick to defend that administration from just criticism. When the fault being criticised is a lack of responsiveness, this reaction does not help–especially when the GOP is the majority party in the federal government.
I assume you aren’t talking about me. I have no idea whether the feds could have done better — but they’re doing a great job of seeming like they don’t much care. And I just got through saying so.
Patterico (756436) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:14 pm“Leave it to Acthole to substitute snark for substance and always miss the point. Which, in this case, is that it actually took a personal phone call from the Prez to get Gov. Blanco to do her own f’ing job.”
No. I get it. The president delegated, and then partied on. Out of his hands.
actus (5b2f21) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:17 pmActus,
I guess you agree that the carpers who say he had no idea this might be a serious disaster were full of shit — right?
Patterico (756436) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:20 pmDelegated?
Do you know anything about federalism and the roles of mayors and governors?
Sav (f539ce) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:22 pmNo Patteric (JoelB and assorted others),
My guess is that you are tough enough that I wouldn’t need to worry about the possibility of hurting your feelings or the need to inflate what seems to be a rock solid ego.
I had just spent the previous days lobbying my Polipundit friends with a negative reaction (and Dean’s kids before that on other matters)–so much so that I feel that I am concerned that my predictions for a 1-2 seat pickup in the Senate are now in jeopardy. Pride comes before the fall and that is what I am seeing.
Paul Deignan (664c74) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:22 pmPatterico,
Just wanted to give you a heads-up on some more distorted truths in the L.A. Times. (This article only appears on the Web site now; I don’t know if it will be in tomorrow’s paper though.)
Robert Hilburn writes in his “Critic’s Notebook” that rapper Kanye West’s inflammatory comments about President Bush’s attitude towards black people shouldn’t have been edited out by NBC for their west coast broadcast of the Katrina fundraiser.
I won’t get into the problems I have with Hilburn’s stance, even though there are many.
Instead, I’ll take issue with the following statement:
Hilburn is half-right. West is the dominant creative force in hip-hop and isn’t a thug (he’s from suburban Chicago). But, Kanye is someone who would use a moment on national television for shock and/or exploitation. He did so last year at the American Music Awards when the threw a temper tantrum after losing Artist of the Year to Gretchen Wilson.
Chris Chase (1e219d) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:22 pmWest didn’t care that he lost, an AMA to a rapper is like a People’s Choice Award to an acclaimed thespian. He went on a tirade to get his name in the papers, just like he did last night.
Kanye’s sophomore album was released Tuesday and despite making the cover of Time andRolling Stone he likely wanted more publicity. And he got it. Everyone was talking today about Kanye West’s comments. Even my mom called me to ask whether I listen to that “Cane guy who criticized the president.”
Maybe Kanye didn’t rip Bush to get his name on the news. He probably believes what he said and maybe saw his chance to speak his mind on national TV and had no alterior motives.
But, Robert Hilburn doesn’t know that and never should have claimed he did.
Maybe the President should have sent Navy Seals armed with bigass machine guns to deliver some aid to the convention center on Wednesday night, when I learned about that mess from TV. Perhaps the government thought getting to the convention center was too dangerous for the military, but not for Fox News. Maybe the military should have called me up and asked me to google the longitute/latitude of the convention center, if they didn’t know where it was. At some point people are going to have to stop defending all this legal mumbo jumbo that prevented ANYONE from dropping a water shipment on that shithole convention center for 2 days. The Wednesday “FEMA juristiction” press conference I saw was absolutely discusting. Thousands have died, some at the convention center.
Shredstar (532850) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:23 pm“Try to get me to a link to a video of a male stripper?”
Well, if Saddam Hussein in briefs which say “WIll trade oil for food” is your idea of a male stripper, or pornography, I’m glad you’re getting out some. I’m working on my own version of events but will be happy to link whatever you do.
Dan Riehl (7910a5) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:24 pmBTW, I hereby claim the “pride before the fall” meme as original in this context.
Paul Deignan (664c74) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:29 pmThe president did not delegate the authority and responsibility for ordereing the evacuation of New Orleans to the Mayor and Governor. That authority and responsibility goes with their offices. President Bush urged them to to order the evacuation.
Stu707 (7c4f65) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:33 pmI didn’t look at the video, guy — but you’re the one who described it as a video of a “male stripper” in the title of your own post. Which I have retained a copy of. I believe you described it in the body of the post as follows:
Are you starting to believe that I really saved the whole thing? Good. Now apologize.
Patterico (756436) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:35 pmIf a tremendous earthquake hit Southern California over an area as large as Utah, so powerful that it overwhelmed the integrity of structures built to resist “all but the one in a million” earthquakes, just think what a mess it would be.
Yeah! We are in East Bay and I shudder to think if the likes of such happens. I ponder why we stay and not move to another area that has no natural disaster risk like earthquake or tornadoes. I wondered whether New Orleans would be rebuilt even when it is now known as a clear risk area.
What is it of us humans that we rebuilt, after every natural disaster ?
Yi Ling (f42fca) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:39 pmA good rule of thumb is if you are building a city by the sea, the buildings should be above sea level.
Shredstar (532850) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:46 pm“Are you starting to believe that I really saved the whole thing? Good. Now apologize.”
I never questioned that – post it – the video is far less vulgar than this from your blog:
“Case study #2: another Pendagon post by a blogger named Amanda, titled Dear racist fucks who complained about looting:”
Dan Riehl (7910a5) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:47 pmI didn’t save the video. I saved the post where you bragged about switching the video on Malkin.
I’m giving you overnight to apologize. I will publish my post tomorrow as soon as I wake up, if you don’t come clean and admit what an utter jackass you have been.
Patterico (756436) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:52 pmI have a sister and a niece living in southern Florida. For days I watched as a giant spinning saw blade the size of Texas creep accross the Gulf. It was going to land somewhere!!!
If Godzilla had been marching towards New Orleans would W. have played a game of golf, attended a birthday party, and then played a little guitar at a fundraiser before “personally” calling the governor???
I don’t even want to discuss all the people spending days the Superdome and at the New Orleans convention center. I still haven’t heard one semi-reasonable excuse as to why food and water could not be delivered. It just makes me so mad I can’t think….
Nero did not have cable TV, satellite weather, the marine corps. ect.
Eric (d8f062) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:53 pmI didn’t save the video.
Oh, it was part of an old post when photos of Saddam pictured in briefs was in the news. By all means, take a look. It isn’t pornographic, in my opinion. Let’s see if we agree on that, first. As I would never have done such a thing with a “pornographic” video. Check it out:
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/05/newsweek_to_rel.html
Dan Riehl (7910a5) — 9/3/2005 @ 10:58 pmI didn’t call it “pornographic.” Malkin did, but she probably did that based on complaints from readers — I doubt she looked at it herself.
Dude, I am going to bed soon. When I wake up, I am publishing my post.
I don’t even begin to understand your defense about the troll who supposedly sent an e-mail under your name. Your post speaks for itself — loud and clear. You have a few hours to apologize. Quit fucking around and do it already.
Patterico (756436) — 9/3/2005 @ 11:04 pmPatterico: I can’t believe you’ve fallen for the MSM spin on the Katrina natural disaster. Come on guy. The fact is that Blanco failed all together in her job and denied President Bush his request to coordinate the evacuation. See captain’s Quarters. This is a black eye for Bush in the same way that the Tet Offensive in 1967 was a defeat for the U.S. Armed Forces. The mayor of New Orleans was so out of touch that he didn’t even use the public transportation buses (including school buses) to evacuatue those without transportation (which were primarily black poor people). Get your facts right and quit helping promote the lies and distortion of the MSM. After all your experience with the MSM fracturing the truth, you of all people should know better.
john (fb05db) — 9/3/2005 @ 11:06 pmNight
Dan Riehl (7910a5) — 9/3/2005 @ 11:07 pmJohn,
Name one single distortion I have helped perpetuate. I specifically noted that Bush implored the governor of Louisiana to get people the hell out of there. But since then, he has seemed out of touch, like he doesn’t understand the enormity of what has happened there. That’s just the truth. It’s not my fault.
Patterico (756436) — 9/3/2005 @ 11:09 pmCheck your gmail account. Interesting stuff by Riehl in there.
Samuel (8f2fd3) — 9/3/2005 @ 11:15 pmPatterico,
According to a source at NBC he added a daily briefing on the storm to his routine and is planning to travel there on Monday – not disclosing details yet because of security. Rumsfield is there tomorrow, I believe. I put it all in a post.
Dan Riehl (7910a5) — 9/3/2005 @ 11:16 pmCheck your gmail account. Interesting stuff by Riehl in there.
LOL Good Lord – a private eye.
Dan Riehl (7910a5) — 9/3/2005 @ 11:17 pmDan,
I just left a comment on your site proving I have your post saved.
Honestly, dude. You screwed up. It happens to the best of us — though usually not like this. All you gotta do is be honest about it and apologize. It’s so simple.
Do you not believe you have anything to apologize for????
Patterico (756436) — 9/3/2005 @ 11:33 pmIf Nero had declared a Natural Disaster almost four days before a major flood of Rome, the press wouldn’t have hounded him half this hard.
Al (00c56b) — 9/3/2005 @ 11:42 pmIt is not true that Bush is out of touch. The evacuation was a state and local matter because they refused Federal coordination when requested. To blame the Bush because of our federalist style of government is ridiculous. Is the federal government to blame when your local police fail to answer your 911 call? We have a national government ,state governments and local governments, each with their separate responsibilities. Some of those responsiblities overlap and some do not. When the local government screws up, they need to be held accountable. When the state government screws up the state needs to be held accountable. So where have you been when the MSM keeps blaming bush for local and state government inaction and incompetence? Dutifully waving your hands in the air saying yeh that’s the problem–Bush is out of touch. Look it would be wrong to blame you for another deputy district attorney’s mistakes. Its just as wrong to blame Bush for the mistakes of local and state governments. Bush is not a dictator. He has to respect state government and local government. If Bush has fouled up let him be held accountable, but I have seen no instance where his actions were the main cause of this government made disaster. I have already posted about the disastrous transportation foul up by the Mayor of New Orleans and Blanco’s failure to call up her national guard in coordination with the Federal government. Quit ducking and start swinging. The truth is not going to appear all by itself of its own accord. The MSM and their sycophants are in full roar. You need to get back on the ramparts and start pushing them back by simply stating the truth which is that Bush’s actions are not the cause of this government made disaster. And That Governor Blanco’s refusal to allow the Federal government coordination combined with the Mayor’s transportation snafu caused the unnecessary deaths we have witness.
john (fb05db) — 9/3/2005 @ 11:47 pm“Do you not believe you have anything to apologize for????”
Oh, I think it was an unfortunate event all around and, yes, for the misunderstanding I certainly owe an explanation to several people and an apology to Michele – who seems to still have up her post indicating I am accussing her of stealing bandwidth – which has been retracted.
Rather than addressing that, though, I have been chasing you from blog to blog in comments this evening. Tell me, as I have no post up accusing her of anything, have you gone there to ask that she pull that post down while the unfortunatelt dilemma is sorted out? No, I didn’t think so. Fact is, you are only making things worse, as is Wizbang – which is a total joke. But, hey, it’s a free world. Why you can’t let two adults, Michele and I, address this, I have no idea. And I am certainly pepared to address it to “her” satisfaction. But, you seem upset I am not addressing it to yours, just now. All you’re doing is acting like an ass.
Dan Riehl (7910a5) — 9/4/2005 @ 12:20 amWell, the post is now up. Check my main page. People can now judge for themselves who is the ass.
Patterico (756436) — 9/4/2005 @ 12:23 amWhat I find most amazing, Patterico, is that there are tens of thousands of people suffering as a result of Katrina, the Chief Justice of the Supreme COurt passed this evening – and this is what you are obsessed with.
Have a good evening.
Dan Riehl (7910a5) — 9/4/2005 @ 12:39 amDanny Boy,
That is rich indeed, coming from the guy whose stats are dependent on nonstop discussion of Natalee Holloway.
What I find amazing is that you published the post I set forth here, in which you whine like a stuck pig about someone using the link you gave them — and then 1) tried to pretend like it never happened and 2) act like someone else is “obsessed” when they call you on it.
I’ve discussed Katrina and Rehnquist on this blog — both today, in fact, before I ever got to you. And I’ll probably still be discussing both, long after you are a footnote.
Patterico (756436) — 9/4/2005 @ 12:54 amPaul Deignan,
” . . . rock solid ego . . .”
It’s a new testimonial for my rotating testimonials! Thanks!
Patterico (756436) — 9/4/2005 @ 1:26 amActually, if Patterico, an attorney, is
obsessedmore concerned about the passing of Chief Justice Rehnquist, it’s completely understandable. And given that the damage caused by what Rush Limbaugh called Hurricane Katrina Vanden Heuvel is the top story on every newscast and every weblog, it’s actually refreshing to see something that concerns a different subject.Of course, since President Bush sent the hurricane to destroy New Orleans just in time to keep the confirmation hearings of Judge Roberts off the news . . .
Dana R. Pico (1d6514) — 9/4/2005 @ 4:05 amIt takes an extremely…um, unusual mentality to assert that Nero wasn’t so bad or incompetent an emperor after all. Especially at this time. Among other problems with bringing up Nero is that Patterico inadvertently draws attention to the emperor-like ambitions of Bush’s circle of advisers. And Bush himself joked about how much easier it would be to govern if he were empereor. A not-very-funny joke for the leader of a democracy.
But there’s more.
Nero was blamed for having the fire deliberately set and was seen watching the fire spread with pleasure. Looking to deflect blame, it was Nero himself who went looking for scapegoats, and he found them: Christians. And they were horribly, unfairly, persecuted and torched to death.
(Now, obviously, the hurricane is an act of nature, but since Patterico wants to compare Bush and Nero, it does beg the question as to whether the lack of an adequate response was intentional incompetence instead of the negelectful kind. The governor of Louisiana is, after all, a Democrat.)
Speaking of incompetence, Nero’s lack of ability to focus effecitvely on governance – he loved sports but, unlike Bush, the arts as well – is blamed for the first civil war in Rome in over a century.
Patterico also has problems both with language and music history.
“Fiddled” in this context clearly puns on a secondary meaning: “dithered” or “flip-flopped,” a reference to the back and forth motion of the bow on the strings. So Nero fiddled while Rome burned; that is, Nero waited too long to provide aid. The comparison to Bush is quite apt.
Now, bowed string instruments have a most ancient history. The specific incarnation of the instrument that is called “violin” wasn’t in existence until the late Rennaissance/early Middle Ages, but its obvious ancestors were around long before Nero fiddled in Rome. In fact, many believe (plausibly in my opinion as a professional musician) that the violin’s ancestors hail from India where sources place the origins of the instrument in the Mauryan Empire, ca. 323 – 185 BC. Therefore, it is more than possible that in addition to lyres, there were violin-like instruments in Nero’s palaces. (Whether Nero actually played any instrument at all is not something I know about.)
Patterico should also be aware that it is common informal usage, at least among the musically educated, to call performing on any bowed instrument “fiddling.” For example, acceptable slang for the acoustic bass is “bass fiddle.” Therefore, it would be appropriate to describe a Roman’s performance in the first century AD on an ancestor of the violin as “fiddling.” (But not, it is true, the lyre, which does not use a bow, as far as I know.)
Finally, I must give Patterico some credit. While he tries, futilely in my opinion, to pass the buck from Bush for the debacle of New Orleans and Mississippi, there is someone conspicuously absent from this list of scapegoats (don’t get me started on that etymology!):
At least Patterico doesn’t think Clinton is responsible. Quite a change from 9/11 blame-throwing.
For info on Nero: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/nero.shtml
For info on the violin, google up “origins of violin.”
tristero (07658e) — 9/4/2005 @ 6:41 am“I guess you agree that the carpers who say he had no idea this might be a serious disaster were full of shit — right?”
He’s the one that said that. On TV. That no-one had any idea the levees would go.
If you want to argue that it rehabilitates him that he knew how bad it was, and we still got what we got. Go ahead.
actus (5b2f21) — 9/4/2005 @ 7:04 amTwo liberals, each with severe reading problems. First tristero:
It takes an extremely…um, unusual mentality to assert that Nero wasn’t so bad or incompetent an emperor after all.
It takes, um, an extremely, um, unusual mentality, um, to read my post in which I call Nero a “nasty human being” and use that to claim that I have asserted Nero “wasn’t so bad . . . after all.”
Nor do I defend his (or Bush’s) competence in the response to the actual disaster: “One might question whether these steps were really sufficient . . .” I just point out that, according to contemporary accounts, he did take some steps to help — and it did him little good.
Time for some remedial reading classes. Now, onto Actus, who suffers from a similar reading deficiency:
“I guess you agree that the carpers who say he had no idea this might be a serious disaster were full of shit — right?”
He’s the one that said that. On TV.
No. He said (as you note next) that nobody had any idea the levees would go. I have expressed consternation at that statement myself — but also noted in the same post that Clinton said the exact same thing.
But that is quite different from saying that he didn’t think it would be a serious disaster — which is what I said in the post, dumbass. Why in the world would he have been on the phone to the governor, personally imploring her to conduct an unprecedented mandatory evacuation, if he (or at least his advisors) had no idea this would be a serious disaster?
Guys, if you’re going to, um, cop an attitude with “um”s and that kind of crap, respond to what I’m actually saying. Capeesh?
Patterico (756436) — 9/4/2005 @ 7:52 amBush dropped everything and came back to Washington in the middle of the night to sign the infamous Terri Schiavo bill. Talk about politicizing a tragedy!
But he could not get off his butt to return to Washington on Monday and mobilize the National Guard and the incompetents at FEMA to bring relief to the people stranded in New Orleans.
What’s next? Are you going to be apologists for Caligula?
Neo-progressive (d6f5a0) — 9/4/2005 @ 8:14 amNobody who reads my whole post could possibly think I am being an unthinking apologist for Bush. I think the jury’s still out on whether he actually could have done more. I *know* he could have *seemed* like he was doing more.
Patterico (756436) — 9/4/2005 @ 8:17 am“Why in the world would he have been on the phone to the governor, personally imploring her to conduct an unprecedented mandatory evacuation, if he (or at least his advisors) had no idea this would be a serious disaster?”
Because he was told it was. I have no idea why him and chertoff were later on TV making excuses that the expected was unexpected.
I’m ready to admit he was well aware of the disaster that was coming — I didn’t really think his excuses were credible. And its with this awareness that we got the response we got.
actus (5b2f21) — 9/4/2005 @ 8:23 amI’m ready to admit he was well aware of the disaster that was coming . . .
I think he was aware that *a* serious disaster was coming, but wasn’t aware of *the* serious disaster that was coming.
But he should have been.
Patterico (756436) — 9/4/2005 @ 8:26 amTwo things:
1. From john at #43:
“The evacuation was a state and local matter because they refused Federal coordination when requested.”
Pardon me if I missed something, but do we know this to be true? If so, when, who, how, and where did this occur?
2. Just curious, I saw little reference to my first post at #9. Was it too boring, too ridiculous, beside the point, not controversial enough?
Thank you.
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/4/2005 @ 12:00 pmI’m not sure if this has been brought up, but, since there are attorney’s present, perhaps one of you could enlighten a layman as to just what authority President Bush could invoke to order the LANG mobilized. I know that he cannot, by law, order active duty military to police US citizens.
Do any of you who are claiming Bush did not act quick enough to get troops into NOLA know when the Gov called up NG and how many she called up?
Since President Bush has no legal authority to activate the LANG, how could he be responsible for them not being deployed until Thursday?
And for all of you harping on FEMA, they were prepared, they just could not get civilian personnel into the city because there were no NG to provide for their safety.
Another item I do not see discussed here is the lack of water, food and sanitary conditions staged at the Superdome, where incidently, the Mayor instructed his citizens to go. It would seem prudent that sufficient supplies would be arranged, in advance, if people were expected to be sheltered there.
If you want to blame the President for the perception that he was doing nothing, I guess that would be fair. Fair only to the extent that you have no knowledge as to what exactly he was and has been doing.
For those of you that believe Nagin and Blanco have no culpability in this tragic event, look to the other states involved and how they have handled the situation. First Responders, local and state personnel, have the primary responsibility for initial triage. They determine what specific aid is needed in the way of personnel and materials, they are responsible for maintaining order so aid can be administered.
Where am I wrong here?
rls (0516f0) — 9/4/2005 @ 1:55 pmAnother comment. If a cat 4-5 hurricane was on target to come up the Delaware Bay into Philly (a hurricane almost did in ’85) and we were told to evacuate, I would get into my car and drive to one of several friends or family within 10 hours drive who would be willing to put us up for a few days at least to start. We would be able to take a few others along if needed. That so many 100,000’s apparently had no such option or didn’t take advantage of it is sad.
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/4/2005 @ 2:32 pmPart of it seems to be the “Boy who cried wolf syndrome”, people who had toughed out previous hurricanes (including Camille years ago) and just assumed they would get though this one too.
I avoid conservative sources, but check now and again on the off chance of actual information. Recent check confirms that ignorance is embraced, that bigotry abounds, and that you mostly spin in your own venom.
Barbara Taylor (ed9876) — 9/4/2005 @ 2:36 pmRecent check confirms you are incapable of citing a single specific fact. Recent check confirms you’d be happier spouting off at DU or Pandagon, where such deficiencies are a plus.
Patterico (756436) — 9/4/2005 @ 3:01 pm“Another comment. If a cat 4-5 hurricane was on target to come up the Delaware Bay into Philly (a hurricane almost did in ‘85) and we were told to evacuate, I would get into my car and drive to one of several friends or family within 10 hours drive who would be willing to put us up for a few days at least to start.”
If you were in center city, 10 hours of everyone leaving would get you to King of Prussia.
actus (5b2f21) — 9/4/2005 @ 3:31 pmMD in Philly:
I would answer the first question in your post #9 by stating the Bush is as out of touch with the American people as his father was when he famously went to a store and was surprised to see scanners checking bar codes when he bought some socks. He surrounds himself with acolytes and like-minded wealthy Republicans. His campaign appearances in 2004 excluded anyone who was not screened for their political beliefs; he is known for not tolerating dissent among his advisors; even last week, outside of a photo op (which also included screening) he was as careful to avoid seeing “real people” as he was in avoiding Cindy Sheehan.
2) Did state and local governments fail? Of course. Does this excuse the inadequacy of the federal response? Of course not. Bush appointed a political hack with no experience to run FEMA; his administration cut funding on infrastructure; even after the hurricane struck (with two days’ advance warning) they were caught flat-footed and unaware of the scope of the problem. Bush clained that “nobody expected” New Orleans to be flooded, and as late as Thursday FEMA head Brown was unaware that there were people stuck in the Convention Center. Hundreds (or perhaps thousands) of lives were lost because of incompetence at all levels of government, but the failure was most notable at the federal level. These are the consequences of trying to shrink govermnet by “starving the beast” — the ineluctable result of a smaller government is a less effective government. My guess is that they do a better job in Bengladesh than we did here. Is this the kind of government you want to have?
the seeker (f41e82) — 9/4/2005 @ 3:59 pmI would answer the first question in your post #9 by stating the Bush is as out of touch with the American people as his father was when he famously went to a store and was surprised to see scanners checking bar codes when he bought some socks.
I would answer your comment by stating that your citation of this urban legend shows you are as out of touch with the facts as you claim Bush is with the American people.
Patterico (756436) — 9/4/2005 @ 4:16 pmSeeker
Please elaborate. How specifically was the Federal response inadequate?
Not true. Read my post above & check the link.
Also not true. Refer again to the posst above.
You are citing your opinion with no facts to back them up. Put up links or cites. Look at my post above and answer my questions. What would you have had the Federal Government, including FEMA, Homeland Security, President Bush and Homeland Security, do different? And you even get the benefit of hindsight.
Here is your chance to be the Chief Executive, you get to run the Executive Branch of the Government and make all of those life and death decisions that you claim President Bush is too stupid to make. So take up the challenge and tell me what you would do, how you could do it better.
I have a feeling your answer is going to be, “I don’t know what should have been done, except it just should have been better, faster, different.”
rls (0516f0) — 9/4/2005 @ 4:58 pmWell actus, we live in Oak Lane, not center city, and would get farther in 10 hrs. If we left 24-48 hrs when warned we would have time to go much farther. In addition, even King of Prussia is a heck of a lot farther above sea level than a 10 hrs drive from NO (I can get 350 feet above sea level without leaving Philly). In addition, not everyone was leaving, which was part of the problem. Lastly, no matter how poor the interstate system leaving NO is, it must be better then the Surekill, I mean Schulkyl.
I am not sure what you are seeking, but President Bush doesn’t limit himself to his contacts to the degree you claim, or he wouldn’t have met with Cindy Sheehan the first time, or with a friend down the street when he was on a reserves assignment at Walter Reed .
When Senator Kerry was in town campaigning on the Penn Campus you couldn’t even get into the large venue unless you were screened (I couldn’t get in).
Urban legends die hard. The majority of the wealthiest Senators, including John Kerry, are Democrats, not Republicans. Sen. Kerry has about 5 more “homes” than President Bush. The largest individual contributors to the last presidential campaigns were for Kerry, and a larger percentage of Kerry’s contributions came from fewer donors than for President Bush.
Re Infrastructure cuts: Michael Parker,
Fmr. Head, Army Corps of Engineers (quit in protest under Bush).
Part of an interview on CNN Friday night, 9/2
“AARON BROWN, CNN:
If the money had been spent, if the levee project had been completed, I don’t think you believe, do you, that the city would be dry?
PARKER: It would not be dry. No, no. In fact, the president of the United States, when he first came into office, and we’d given him $100 million. It would not have made much difference as far as this incident.
BROWN: Why would it would not have made much difference? I thought the idea was to take it sort of raise the level of its strength from [Cat 3] – to withstand a Category 5 hurricane?
PARKER: But you have to understand, these projects are huge in nature. And they take a long time to build. … Infrastructure is not something that we build for ourselves. We build it for our children and our grandchildren. …
If you look in New Orleans, in 1965 when Hurricane Betsy came through, the Congress of the United States passed legislation. And in that legislation, it was supposed to be protecting the city of New Orleans. And it was the Pontchatrain, the Lake Pontchatrain New Orleans Levee and Hurricane Protection Plan. The fact of the matter is, is that Congress wanted to have that paid for – completed by – in a 10 year period of time by 1975. We are now at 2005. 40 years after the inception, 30 years after it was supposed to be completed. And it is only 80 to 85 percent complete.”
http://www.balloon-juice.com/?p=5477
So much for Mr. Parker blaming President Bush.
Enough said, Bush still not out of touch.
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/4/2005 @ 5:01 pmEnough said, Bush still not out of touch.
I liked his remarks about the feds fixing up one of Lott’s houses and sitting on the porch.
actus (5b2f21) — 9/4/2005 @ 5:13 pmThank you, Patterico for chiming in. Let it be said, I was quite baffled a few weeks ago the first time I tried a “self check-out” at Home Depot.
Patterico and rls, there are times when I would like to know when to ignore comments that are just recitation of the latest talking points. I’m not sure what seeker is seeking, and whether it is worth responding to when actual info has been posted.
What could have been done in 20-20 hindsight?
1. Make sure New Orleans city evacuation plan was followed.
2. Make sure there were some supplies at places people were told they could congregate.
3. At the first rumor of things being disorganized and violence breaking out, send in active military with shoot to kill orders on anyone with a firearm who will not put it down when requested. A couple of SEAL teams (with navy uniforms) in their skiffs zooming around. The news would get around soon enough.
#1 and 2 were not the feds, #3 would have been screamed at just as hard as the screaming now, even if it stabilized then situation.
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/4/2005 @ 5:16 pm“#1 and 2 were not the feds”
Why not?
actus (5b2f21) — 9/4/2005 @ 5:18 pm#3 was and is still unlawful.
rls (0516f0) — 9/4/2005 @ 5:22 pm69. Hey actus, let’s turn this around. What makes you think that they were the Fed’s? Enlighten us would you please? You seem to have knowledge and sources we do not possess.
If you truly want to know the answer to your question just look at the comments here. Shouldn’t be too hard to find.
rls (0516f0) — 9/4/2005 @ 5:24 pm“69. Hey actus, let’s turn this around. What makes you think that they were the Fed’s? Enlighten us would you please? You seem to have knowledge and sources we do not possess.”
Because they say so, from the DHS website:
“n the event of a terrorist attack, natural disaster or other large-scale emergency, the Department of Homeland Security will assume primary responsibility on March 1st for ensuring that emergency response professionals are prepared for any situation. This will entail providing a coordinated, comprehensive federal response to any large-scale crisis and mounting a swift and effective recovery effort.”
Also, because I think Federal governments are better at evacuating a city to multistate location. What sense does it make to have a mayor send people to other towns? A governor send people to other states? What resources does a mayor — or even a governor, have to protect a port that services the country from the rockies to the appalachians? I have no idea what the laws are, just that it makes more sense to have it be the feds that are prepared to deliver food quickly, than to have mayors be ready to feed their towns. Specially when the situation is that the town is destroyed.
actus (5b2f21) — 9/4/2005 @ 5:38 pmThe city of New Orleans had a disaster evacuation plan, using their own police, using their own schoolbuses, etc. http://www.cityofno.com/SystemModules/PrintPage.aspx?portal=46&tabid=26
[Thanks to http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/9/3/112236/1123%5D It is not the feds job to tell every city administration what to do, nor would they want it. If the Mayor says, ok, how are we going to get meals and water and ice for 50,000 in the superdome a call to the governor and the feds would be in order. It is not President Bush’s job to see that the school buses have gas. Are national guard troops needed to drive the buses? Call the governor. FWIW, I heard the governor of Colorado on Hugh hewitt the other day. He made it sound like FEMA is just sitting by the phone waiting to say, “How can we help you?”
I’m perfectly happy for responsibility to go to President Bush for things on the fed level. But if everyone is so busy talking about how stupid he is all of the time, why should they complain if they can’t do anything to help themselves unless he tells them what to do.
I just came across this
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/4/2005 @ 5:40 pmhttp://www.redstate.org/story/2005/9/2/151117/6847
which if true as it reads, should make the mayor of NO think twice about who he wants to get their “butt” down there.
:
Read page 26.
You are assuming in every instance that the town is going to be destroyed? And you are right you do not know about the law. Read above post re unlawful acts by the President.
By your scenario, the Feds would need to deploy teams (you know, medical, Police, Search and Rescue, heavy equipment, food, water ,etc) to every city that was possibly in the path of the Hurricane. If the Hurricane switched paths, which they are wont to do, then those teams would have to be rerouted, or new teams dispatched. Oh, by the way, they would have to be on site, carrying out evacuations at least 48 hours before the storm’s arrival.
What a nighmare, bureaucratic, mess that would be. The reason that local authorities are taxed with local evacuations is because they know where their shelters are, they know the local conditions and most of all, they are on site. If the storm sputters out, changes direction or intensifies, they can adapt. The reason they are tasked with providing most of the disaster aid in the first 72 to 96 hours is because that is usually how long it takes to get massive amounts of personnel and equipment to the disaster site.
You know, they can’t take all that stuff and stick it right in the middle of the hurricane.
I’m tired of your, “Gee, I don’t know, but it seems the poor locals don’t have the resources (500+ buses under water) and the Feds should be better able to do it.”
To do what you want the Feds to do would take a Government at least twice as big as the one we have now. Get a clue.
rls (0516f0) — 9/4/2005 @ 6:21 pm“Read page 26.”
I see it. I still see someone saying they have primary responsibility. As well as having the governor and the mayor overlap. No reason why the feds can’t overlap.
“You are assuming in every instance that the town is going to be destroyed? ”
That is what was expected of a storm like this hitting NOLA.
“By your scenario, the Feds would need to deploy teams (you know, medical, Police, Search and Rescue, heavy equipment, food, water ,etc) to every city that was possibly in the path of the Hurricane.”
Well, my scenario is that they would be ready to deploy as soon as it passed. And my scenario understands that a hurricane hitting NOLA like this is a specific, serious threat that has been modeled.
Its not like by your scenario, a million people are supposed to leave NOLA (500 school buses or whatnot), but the feds can’t deploy there.
“I’m tired of your, “Gee, I don’t know, but it seems the poor locals don’t have the resources (500+ buses under water) and the Feds should be better able to do it.””
Ya. Evacuation isn’t just it. A mayor may be able to get 500 buses out of town. But a mayor has no ability to find those people some place to be out of his jurisdiction. And even then, there are still going to be thousands left behind. And a city with no buses.
actus (5b2f21) — 9/4/2005 @ 6:50 pmHey, actus, for further information regarding the response, local, state and federal, check this. It will give you an idea about what the NG was up against and explain how the law works governing militia and military.
Then you won’t have to make comments like,
.
This site also explains that over 1000 of NO’s finest either never showed up or deserted. I suppose that is something Bush should have foresaw also.
rls (0516f0) — 9/4/2005 @ 6:54 pm“It will give you an idea about what the NG was up against and explain how the law works governing militia and military.”
Maybe they ought to be changed. How does the law work now? Is it good enough for you?
I don’t know what they’re against. When did they start moving? from when blanco declared her emergency on the 26th?
“This site also explains that over 1000 of NO’s finest either never showed up or deserted. I suppose that is something Bush should have foresaw also.”
I’ve heard of 200 leaving. They had a force of 1400. You tell me that less than 400 were at work? But ya. I think we should foresee that when a city is underwater, it can’t provide any services, such as cops driving by in their cars. For whatever reason.
actus (5b2f21) — 9/4/2005 @ 7:10 pmI guess you didn’t read it, huh. And yes it works fine for me. I believe in our system of Federalism. I think that the State should control their own militia in times like these because they would know (or supposed to know) how best to utilize them.
I’m not going to supply the link and read it for you.
How about in their boats?
rls (0516f0) — 9/4/2005 @ 7:19 pmrls,
Thanks for the link. While my #3 is unlawful, given the breakdown in police presence and the desire to have a large NG force before being deployed, it seems to regain order earlier would have required a few SEAL teams going in and “qwelling the violence”.
In addition, I read somewhere that NO already had low police staffing on best days compared to other major cities.
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/4/2005 @ 7:34 pm“I guess you didn’t read it, huh.”
That link has very little about the law.
“And yes it works fine for me. I believe in our system of Federalism.”
I can’t think of anything that has affected interestate commerce more than this hurricane, and its evacuation.
“How about in their boats?”
Sure. Is every town supposed to have boats, or just the feds have them to move to the one town that needs them?
actus (5b2f21) — 9/4/2005 @ 7:44 pm.
I didn’t say anything about interstate commerce.
I would think a city that has a propensity for flood, on the mouth of a major river, with canals would have boats. Sort of be negligent if they didn’t don’t you think? Maybe they could even have sometype of volunteer corps set up for something like an emergency?
rls (0516f0) — 9/4/2005 @ 7:54 pm“I didn’t say anything about interstate commerce.”
I did. That’s where congress is allowed to act. Federalism and all.
“I would think a city that has a propensity for flood, on the mouth of a major river, with canals would have boats”
I think the idea was that if there was a flood, it would be total. But sure. They should have bought some boats. And gas for them too.
actus (5b2f21) — 9/4/2005 @ 8:08 pmThe concept of Federalism is that states have autonomy.
rls (0516f0) — 9/4/2005 @ 8:13 pm“The concept of Federalism is that states have autonomy.”
I hear them autonomously saying “come help me.”
actus (5b2f21) — 9/4/2005 @ 8:36 pmYou’re hearing must be more acute than mine.
rls (0516f0) — 9/4/2005 @ 8:48 pm“You’re hearing must be more acute than mine.”
Really? I mean, have you been paying attention to this?
actus (5b2f21) — 9/4/2005 @ 9:04 pmH/T to http://www.redstate.org/story/2005/9/2/151117/6847
September 14, 2004: Paul at WizBang asks us to “pray” for New Orleans as a powerful Category 5 storm barrels through the Gulf – citing a study that the bowl could overflow with 30 feet of water and 50,000 could be left dead. The Hurricane was Ivan, not Katrina. The post is TrackBacked by 26 blogs – none of them among the group now whipping itself into an orgiastic frenzy of Bush Derangement Syndrome.
July 8, 2005: Brendan Loy on Hurricane Dennis: “A direct hit on New Orleans by a major hurricane would, as we’ve discussed before, be very, very, very bad. Like 100,000 deaths bad. Like the complete destruction of an entire city bad.”
August 25-26, 2005: Katrina hits South Florida.
August 26, 2005, 5:23 p.m.: Meteorologist Jeff Masters: “Threat threat of a strike on New Orleans by Katrina as a major hurricane has grown… It would be no surprise if later advisories shift the forecast track even further west and put Katrina over New Orleans.”
August 26, 2005, 11:25 a.m.: Masters: “I’m surprised they haven’t ordered an evacuation of the city yet. While the odds of a catastropic hit that would completely flood the city of New Orleans are probably 10%, that is way too high in my opinion to justify leaving the people in the city. If I lived in the city, I would evactuate NOW! There is a very good reason that the Coroner’s office in New Orleans keeps 10,000 body bags on hand. … New Orleans needs a full 72 hours to evacuate, and landfall is already less than 72 hours away.”
August 26, 2005, 1:57 p.m.: Brendan Loy: “At the risk of being alarmist, we could be 3-4 days away from an unprecedented cataclysm that could kill as many as 100,000 people in New Orleans.
August 26, 2005, 9:44 p.m.: Governor declares state of emergency.
August 26, 2005, 11:22 p.m.: Loy: “[I]f I lived in New Orleans, I would definitely leave at this point. Tonight. Barring a major change in forecast, I expect the evacuation orders to come tomorrow.” The order would not come for another 24 hours.
August 27, 2005, afternoon: Mayor Nagin says “this is not a test,” “batten down the hatches” – but evacuation is still voluntary.
August 27, 2005, 7:34 p.m. Loy: “I can’t emphasize enough what a bad decision I think it is for New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin to delay the mandatory evacuation until tomorrow morning… Will Ray Nagin go down in history as the mayor who fiddled while New Orleans drowned? Could be.”
August 27, 2005, evening: Governor Blanco interrupts Mayor Nagin at dinner Update [2005-9-2 18:54:36 by machiavel]: after President Bush appeals for a mandatory evacuation of the city, telling him to call the National Hurricane Center. He subsequently orders a mandatory evacuation for Sunday, 24 hours before landfall.
August 27, 2005, 9:16 p.m.: Masters: “New Orleans finally got serious and ordered an evacuation, but far too late. There is no way everyone will be able to get out of the city in time…” He places New Orleans’ chances of being destroyed at 20 percent.
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/4/2005 @ 9:12 pmacthole – Feel free to collect your thoughts.
Shredstar (532850) — 9/4/2005 @ 9:15 pmAugust 27, 2005, 9:16 p.m.: Masters: “New Orleans finally got serious and ordered an evacuation, but far too late. There is no way everyone will be able to get out of the city in time…” He places New Orleans’ chances of being destroyed at 20 percent.
MD from Philly,
If you have the time, can you analyse the difference in response between the towns in Mississippi that were actually HIT by the hurricane compared to New Orleans that was NOT but the levees broke because of the excess water.
If you could cover the
1. who is responsible for the safety plan in such crisis
2. what are the safety systems that are in place
3. how was the safety system activitated
4. how did press cover each place
many thanks 🙂
Yi Ling (9349f5) — 9/5/2005 @ 12:58 amHow come everytime a blog finds an excuse for one of Bush’s blunders, Bush never uses this particular excuse?
Sirkowski (a7e5fa) — 9/5/2005 @ 1:40 amExemple: “Why doesn’t the White House publish the info about the tons of WMDs they found in Iraq? Damn MSM!”
Just wondering, ‘cuz you know, akward…
A quick aside to Sirkowski:
President Bush is either incredibly stupid (but his officer testing scores were better than Senator Kerry’s), or he is inclined to do his job and not spend time defending himself (to a fault some would say). Besides, if you read David Kay’s statement there is plenty to worry you.
On to nastier things:
FYI: Michhelle Malkin (and Powerline too?) have been following things closely, especially if you follow links. For instance, NO police had to shoot and kill ~6 gunmen who shot at contractors going to repair a bridge. And many police and fire fighters are having lots of trouble, including two police who have killed themselves, including the Police Department spokesman. Good reasons not to get into finger pointing now as Hewett says, but when the Senator from Louisiana wants to hit people…
Yi Ling, I can’t look for the info you request, but I would start looking at the reactions of the governors of the two states- when I’ve read about the federal response to hurricanes last year it was prominent that the gov. of Florida initiated the calls. Also this: (via Malkin)
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/5/2005 @ 6:27 am“he is inclined to do his job and not spend time defending himself (to a fault some would say). Besides, if you read David Kay’s statement there is plenty to worry you.”
The defending and the lying is left to his officials, who tell newspapers that, for example, Blanco never declared a state of emergency.
actus (5b2f21) — 9/5/2005 @ 6:35 amReference please.
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/5/2005 @ 6:39 amMD from Philly, thanks .
OPEN QUESTION TO ALL
What is the difference in response between the towns in Mississippi that were actually HIT by the hurricane compared to New Orleans that was NOT but the levees broke because of the excess water.
1. who is responsible for the safety plan in such crisis
Yi Ling (5a5925) — 9/5/2005 @ 6:50 am2. what are the safety systems that are in place
3. how was the safety system activitated
4. how did press cover each place New Orleans vs towns hit in Mississippi
“References please”
To what? the lie, or the refutation?
Linky
actus (518762) — 9/5/2005 @ 8:54 am[…] The Bush defenders have ambition, I’ll grant them that. For if they can attempt to resurrect Nixon, why not reach farther back in history? Now, a prominent conservative blogger takes on an LA Times op-ed by Rosa Brooks: […]
The Light Of Reason » Blog Archive » BREAKING NEWS: NERO DESTROYED BY LIBERAL MEDIA! (05ef6a) — 9/5/2005 @ 9:19 amSo the Washington Post mentions in a story that a “senior Buch official” tells them Blanco never called a state of emergency. Instead of telling the Post’s reporters to check their sources, as all would tell the LA Times to do, you attribute the responsibility directly to President Bush. I’m afraid it will take more than that to convict of conspiracy.
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/5/2005 @ 10:40 am“Instead of telling the Post’s reporters to check their sources, as all would tell the LA Times to do, you attribute the responsibility directly to President Bush.”
Actually I said he didn’t do the lying. That was left to ‘senior administration officials.’
actus (518762) — 9/5/2005 @ 10:44 am“Actually I said he didn’t do the lying. That was left to ’senior administration officials.’”
Left to the ‘senior administration officials’ by whom? The Whitehouse switchboard operator??
A really senior administration aide said to me today, “Quit all of the carping, get to work, and wait for the Congressional hearing, if they can do one that is worthwhile”.
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/5/2005 @ 10:53 amMost people aren’t aware of what happened to Nero afterwards. The Talmud holds that he repented and became a Jew.
Can’t say that I see that in the cards for Bush.
Stephen Hirsch (fb93ef) — 9/5/2005 @ 11:07 am‘Left to the ’senior administration officials’ by whom? The Whitehouse switchboard operator??’
I don’t think that’s who directs senior administration officials. At least, I hope not.
actus (5b2f21) — 9/5/2005 @ 2:25 pmWow. Defending Nero. That pretty much summarizes how fucking deranged you douche bags on the right are. I’m no lefty but you people are so off your collective rockers it’s absolutely astounding. With the idiots on the left and you loonies on the right, this country may be doomed to years of unrealistic attempts at steering us straight down the road. Nero as misunderstood goody guy. It’s insanity.
Michael Deme (d5ff3a) — 9/5/2005 @ 6:52 pmDear Michael:
God, you’re dumb.
Love and kisses,
Xrlq (428dfd) — 9/5/2005 @ 7:59 pmXrlq
Michael:
What Xrlq said. Develop some reading skills. Calling someone a “nasty human being” is not quite the same as portraying them as a “misunderstood goody guy.”
I figured out where all these idiots are coming from: Salon (Daou Report). They’re reading the summary there and running here to comment without reading the post.
Patterico (756436) — 9/5/2005 @ 9:56 pmI was travelling yesterday and couldn’t follow up. Patterico chose to niggle and not comment on the substance of my post. By default Patterico does not dispute that:
1. Nero actually did fiddle, ie flip-flop and procrastinate, while Rome burned, just as Bush fiddled in re: New Orleans, although eventually both sent assistance.
2. In political trouble, Bush, like Nero, quickly found scapegoats to blame for the tragedy. For Bush, it was the poor black victims of the storm themselves. And the Democratic Louisiana politicians, of course. For Nero, it was the Christians, an uncomfortable fact Patterico ignored in his original post as it makes for the queasiest comparisons.
3. Regarding Rosa Brooks’ “mistake” which inspired the post -that Nero couldn’t actually have fiddled because he couldn’t have had one – Patterico concedes that he, in fact, is wrong. It is more than likely that ancestors of fiddles -early bowed string instruments from India- could be found at Nero’s palace as they already were hundreds of years old by then. Nero was, unlike Bush, quite an aesthete and would have been the sort to collect exactly such exotica as fiddles from India.
4. Comparing Bush to Nero brings up very disturbing memories of Bush’s cheesy joke that it would be a lot easier for him if he was a dictator.
Finally, I cannot agree that I misread Patterico’s original post. His meaning was quite clear:
Nero was nasty, but not really that bad, after all. He just got an inaccurate bad rap from the (presumably liberal) buffoons in Rome and their apologists among the (presumably liberal)academics who wrote that Nero did something – fiddle- which he clearly couldn’t have. Sure, he burned some Christians -nasty, that – but his critics’ charge that he didn’t care about the victims of the Roman fire is pure trash.
Like I said, it takes an, um…unusual mentality to try to rehabilitate Nero’s reputation at a time like this, especially when that mentality doesn’t know the first thing about Nero, music history, musical slang, or the nature of puns.
tristero (adf9b1) — 9/6/2005 @ 4:05 amactus, that’s exactly the point. When I comment that you are [implying] that the “lies” are [eventually] attributable to Bush, you say, No, that’s not what I meant. When I question just who tells “senior officials” what to say (with a sarcastic suggestion), you respond “I hope not”.
One either thinks the senior officials represent what Pres. bush wishes to communicate or not. if you think the pres is behind it, to call a senior advisor a liar is to say Bush is a liar. If you think Bush gives people free reign to say whatever, that speaks for itself.
In the end, you are referring to a newspaper story quotingan unnamed source.
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/6/2005 @ 4:18 amWhen and where did president Bush blame anybody for anything? last I heard, he had met and was amiable with people who had cussed him out on national media and someone who refused to allow the La national guard to come under fed control.
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/6/2005 @ 4:23 amHmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…. bad press overseas what’s happening – *whoever* at fault
Potato Couch (81f9ac) — 9/6/2005 @ 4:36 am“actus, that’s exactly the point. When I comment that you are [implying] that the “lies” are [eventually] attributable to Bush, you say, No, that’s not what I meant. When I question just who tells “senior officials” what to say (with a sarcastic suggestion), you respond “I hope not””
I think senior admin officials are big boys and came make some decisions on their own.
actus (5b2f21) — 9/6/2005 @ 5:28 amTristero,
Um, I wasn’t, um, conceding, um, anything. Brooks was not making a “pun.” The fiddle was not invented. The story was a rumor that spread because the guy was unpopular. Contemporary sources said Nero took steps to help. And yes, Nero did awful stuff scapegoating (and killing) people afterwards, which I didn’t bring up (other than to make clear that he was a nasty human being) because it wasn’t brought up by Brooks and wasn’t relevant. If you, um, think the point of my post was to praise Nero as a great guy, then you are, um, an idiot. But I don’t really think so; I just think that (like most of the people who came here from Salon) you didn’t read my actual post before spouting off.
Patterico (756436) — 9/6/2005 @ 7:01 amI do like your “if you’re not buying that there really was a fiddle, then it was a pun” defense, though. Reminds me of the Monty Python Dead Parrot Sketch. When the pet shop owner tells the customer he came to the wrong pet shop, saying the customer is in Ipswich and not Bolton, the customer complains to British Rail, who tells him that he really is in Bolton. The customer returns to the pet shop and has the following exchange with the pet shop owner:
Patterico (756436) — 9/6/2005 @ 7:10 amMD,
Bush is responsible for the behavior of his underlings, minions, sycophants, etc. He better be, because my tax dollars are paying their salaries and if they are not doing the president’s bidding, something is seriously awry. They have gone around for days now, lying through their teeth, pretending the governor of Louisiana didn’t declare a state of emergency, blaming everyone but themselves. Bush himself naturally won’t say a thing. But they speak with his authority and with his voice. And if they don’t he’s even a more out of control leader than I think he is.
Patterico,
Why yes, Nero helped. After he stopped fiddling about. That is, once someone got his attention. Then, and only then did he help. AND simultaneously scapegoated Christians whom he turned into human torches. Why would you, by carping on Brooks’ alleged mistake in Roman history, invite people to remember this in the context of Bush?
The fiddle didn’t appear magically. It was a long process of development which began long before Nero. The word – by all means, go the OED and look it up – is itself ancient, and it has multiple meanings. Musicians use it all the time today as slang for a bowed instrument although originally it wasn’t slang, apparently. Indeed, the OED that I have says, somewhat incompletely, that fiddle is slang for instruments in the “viol family.” A viol, by the way, is not a violin but another ancestor of the modern violin. Nor is the erhu, a one-string bowed instrument often described as a “Chinese fiddle.” Nor is a bass fiddles, sometimes also called a bull fiddle.
Who said Brooks was making a pun? She was repeating a pun, and a clever one. The pun is probably very old. Gibbons? Earlier? I have no idea.
I repeat: I have no idea whether Nero played a lyre, an early form of fiddle, or any other musical instrument. However, I do know that it is more than likely that Nero’s palace would have had both lyres and early Indian fiddles, given Nero’s intense interest and support of the arts (and, in a genuine comparison to Bush, to sports, much to the detriment of his ability to focus on governance).
I may be an idiot, but this is not an example (nor, since you are no neurologist, are you in a postion to pass judgment, so your opinion would only be valid through self-recognition). I never said you were out to praise Nero, but to rehabilitate his reputation. Nasty, but not that nasty. Misunderstood, a victim of historical distortions. Like that un-nasty George W. Bush. Not so.
Nero was an incompetent, brutal, self-absorbed dictator whose neglect apparently hastened the onset of Rome’s first civil war in 100 years. His initial dithering and procrastination in providing help for the fire victims epitomized how out of touch he was, and how inept.
Why any supporter of Bush would bring up Nero right now and claim he was misunderstood – just like George Bush is – is beyond my imagination. I can only assume that it requires an, um…unusual mentality (note: one “um” will suffice, two is tacky). Because the more you look at Nero, the more distressing the superficial parallels are to Bush. And the more dangerously inept Bush appears.
No, Bush is not Nero (nor is he comparable to any other equally odious tyrant from the past). Bush is sui generis. His incompetence and failures are uniquely his and while there may be analogs to the past, including Nero’s fiddling, nothing should take our minds away from Bush’s unique way of making life miserable for his country; for those foreigners he has tortured and killed in his jails; and for his sheer inability to focus on anything but his own will to power.
And his vacations, of course.
tristero (adf9b1) — 9/6/2005 @ 7:43 amPatterico,
Have you no sense of the sacred? To bring up the Dead Parrot Sketch in this context?!!??! Shame, shame!
Of course it’s a pun. It’s a great pun. It’s a pun only if there was a fiddle. No fiddle, no pun. The meaning is then completely transparent. Nero dithered.
tristero (adf9b1) — 9/6/2005 @ 7:46 amAll I’ve seen of the “President and his underlings” “lying through their teeth” is one reference to one news story that quotes one unnamed source who is supposed to be a “senior official” who is “a big boy who can make decisions on his own”. I’ve seen/heard much more from the mayor of NO, the governor of LA (who still has refused to let the LA guard come under federal control, demanding her own chain of command), and the one Senator from LA.
And I haven’t heard much complaining from MS or TX.
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/6/2005 @ 8:43 am‘All I’ve seen of the “President and his underlings” “lying through their teeth” is one reference to one news story that quotes one unnamed source who is supposed to be a “senior official” who is “a big boy who can make decisions on his own’
I don’t think these news sources quote senior administration officials without having talked to them.
But if you want a lie by bush, look at the ‘no-one expected the levees to fail’ excuse.
actus (ebc508) — 9/6/2005 @ 8:55 amMD in philly.
You say you haven’t seen any news of Bush officials blaming everyone but themselves. Golly, I guess they don’t deliver newspapers, have radio or tv, or the internet in Philly anymore. They used to, at least up until a couple of months ago when I was there (nice city). I wonder what happened?
Seriously, if you need help keeping up with the news, why don’t you contact Michael Brown of FEMA or Michael Chertoff DHS? Y’know, they were having the exact same problem in the early days of the hurricane, they didn’t know half of what a casual viewer of CNN could see during a random tune-in. Well, now they claim they’re on top of it, plugged in. They should have some great tips for you to stay informed and if you’re lucky, they may even repeat to you their very own remarks blaming others for their own unconscionable mistakes.
tristero (a9602f) — 9/6/2005 @ 9:19 amMD in Texas,
In re: Texas, just wait.
As for MS see below. True, they are Democrats, so who cares what they think? I suspect, tho, we haven’t even begun to hear from the good folks of Biloxi, Pass Christian, Gulfport, et al. Maybe it’s because many are dead and they still don’t have enough access to the rest of the world. In any event, as Rumsfeld said, absence of evidence isn’t evidence of absence (although in his case it was):
“Some local officials have described a far different response. Mayor Johnny L. DuPree of Hattiesburg, a Democrat, complained over the weekend to The Hattiesburg American that it had taken days for federal help to arrive.
“I started trying to get federal help in here on Monday, and six days after this town has struggled to get enough water and ice for its people, we finally hear from the feds,” the newspaper quoted Mr. DuPree as saying.
State Senator Gloria Chisholm Williamson, Democrat of Philadelphia, said she believed that the criticism by Louisiana oficials was instrumental in having the federal government step up its response.
“When they started getting criticized,” Ms. Williamson said, “all of a sudden we got the troops coming in, which is what we needed to begin with. I’m sorry that Governor Barbour is such a loyalist to his Republican president that he appeared to be putting that before the concerns of the people.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/06/national/nationalspecial/06barbour.html
tristero (a9602f) — 9/6/2005 @ 9:26 amThere is no question that incompetent and local officials need to be put over the grill.
But one of the oldest and most established rles of federal government is to gather and focus resources in case of emergency. This emergency would have overwhelmed the best organized local authorities.
I think there is no question that the federal government has still failed to mobilize many availible resources, the kind of things that can sweep a whole battalion in in one wave of helocopters, the various public and private resources that could be focused. In fact there is evidence that Fema blocked these. Skim the articles at this link, some of them are editorial, but many document claims that outrage and shame us.
http://femafailures.blogspot.com/
Nearly 4 years ago the Republican leaders of this nation promised us that they would change business as usual, that they would put increased effort into spotting dangers and to responding to crisis.
New Orleans was one of the biggest potential tragedies facing this country. Rather than increase efforts to reduce the potential crisis funds were cut. Pork was more important. This is not setting priorities.
The response was tepid and scary to those who believe terrorism and other things are serious threats. We are more alone than under Clinton.
Republican’s won elections on claiming the opposite to what turns out to be reality. This is called failure. It happened under President’s Bush watch. He will be punished. This is called responsibility.
To deny failure and claim it a success, to resist the need for reform because of partisan interests is called a lack of moral values.
bothered republican (ee67ae) — 9/6/2005 @ 9:42 amBothered Republican,
You’re absolutely right, and while I don’t hold out any hope that Bush will be punished, your intelligent post does give me hope that there are some in your party who may be able to wrest Republicanism back from the abyss. I may not agree with you on much, but I, at least, find your honesty a reason to hope politics, someday, may return to substantive issues of governance instead of a frantic attempt to prevent ideologues from hijacking the government.
I’m done commenting on this thread. Anyone who has questions on fiddles, music, Nero, etc, please feel free to write. My email is at my website.
tristero (a9602f) — 9/6/2005 @ 10:38 amactus-
1. whatever Bush II meant by that comment-Bush I and Clinton both said the same thing
2. “I don’t think these news sources quote senior administration officials without having talked to them.” It’s been done many times, why do you think there was a scandal with Jason Blair and others? Even if not completely fake a misquote is a more common occurrence.
Tristero, I was referring to the fact that the Astrodome had supplies in it, and not provided by the feds.
http://www.effwa.org/main/page.php
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.nagin/
MR. McCLELLAN: You know, David, there are some that are interested in playing the blame game. The President is interested in solving problems and getting help to the people who need it. There will be a time
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/6/2005 @ 9:15 pmMR. McCLELLAN: The time for bickering and blame-gaming is later. The time for helping people in the region is now.
Program on the emergence of civilization.
“14 species of large animals capable of domesitcation in the history of mankind.
13 from Europe, Asia and northern Africa.
None from the sub-Saharan African continent. ”
Favor.
And disfavor.
They point out Africans’ failed attempts to domesticate the elephant and zebra, the latter being an animal they illustrate that had utmost importance for it’s applicability in transformation from a hunting/gathering to agrarian-based civilization.
The roots of racism are not of this earth.
Austrailia, aboriginals:::No domesticable animals.
The North American continent had none. Now 99% of that population is gone.
AIDS in Africa.
Organizational Heirarchy
Heirarchical order, from top to bottom:
1. MUCK – perhaps have experienced multiple universal contractions (have seen multiple big bangs), creator of the artificial intelligence humans ignorantly refer to as “god”
2. Perhaps some mid-level alien management
3. Mafia (evil) aliens – runs day-to-day operations here and perhaps elsewhere (“On planets where they approved evil.”)
Terrestrial management:
4. Chinese/egyptians – this may be separated into the eastern and western worlds
5. Romans – they answer to the egyptians
6. Mafia – the real-world interface that constantly turns over generationally so as to reinforce the widely-held notion of mortality
7. Jews, corporation, women, politician – Evidence exisits to suggest mafia management over all these groups.
Survival of the favored.
Movies foreshadowing catastrophy
1986 James Bond View to a Kill 1989 San Fransisco Loma Prieta earthquake.
They can affect the weather and Hurricane Katrina was accomplished for many reasons and involves many interests, as anything this historical is::
1. Take heat off Sheenhan/Iraq, protecting profitable war machine/private war contracts
2. Gentrification. New Orleans median home price of $84k is among the lowest in major American cities, certainly among desirable cities.
Journal: 10 composition books + 39 megs of text files
The anti-nuclear movement is a petroleum industry scam to protect their market.
Destroyed for exploitation (a19c9e) — 9/8/2005 @ 12:22 amDestroyed, I am fascinated by the things of which you speak. Never have I realized how things really are, but you have laid them bare for all to see, like a big naked butt. Speaking of which, if they know you know this, I’d watch your rear if I were you.
See Dubya (fe73ea) — 9/8/2005 @ 1:47 am“whatever Bush II meant by that comment-Bush I and Clinton both said the same thing”
I know. Those latter guys I don’t expect to be up with the times, or even briefed. Bush II? ya. I expect him to know what he’s talking about when it comes to preparation for this hurricane.
‘“I don’t think these news sources quote senior administration officials without having talked to them.” It’s been done many times, why do you think there was a scandal with Jason Blair and others? ‘
You forgot the WMD’s too.
actus (9982e6) — 9/8/2005 @ 5:45 am24-
[Patterico:]”“Try to get me to a link to a video of a male stripper?”
[Dan Riehl:] Well, if Saddam Hussein in briefs which say “WIll trade oil for food” is your idea of a male stripper, or pornography, I’m glad you’re getting out some. I’m working on my own version of events but will be happy to link whatever you do. “
OT, but this pretty much cinches it that the Riehl/Malkin thing was done by Dan himself, not some hacker.
Scott (57c0cc) — 9/8/2005 @ 6:17 amTo whom it may concern-
Governor Blanco requested assistance from Bush in the form of troops on Wednesday, August 31.
They started arriving the next day, i.e. the earliest that they could have done.
What’s that you say? Bush should have sent in troops sooner without waiting for the governor’s request as was done on 9/11? Traditionally the president only overrides state authorities in matters of national security, not local disasters of nature.
Now if you want to argue that it is time for that tradition to be re-evaluated, fair enough. That’s sure to be one of the central topics considered by Congress in the coming months. I’m sure most if not all states would be happy to be divested of the responsibility of being the primary responders in major disasters – however I doubt they will be equally eager to see the following results of such a divestment:
1) Tax revenues slated for the support of state emergency response resources will be turned over to the federal government
2) General reduction of the rights of individual state’s rights needed to smooth the way for easy federal access in preparation for and in times of emergency
As far as the comments about Bush being “tone deaf” – duh. He’s always been a bit of a klutz in front of the cameras. That’s why they’re bringing in Slick Willy.
Scott (57c0cc) — 9/8/2005 @ 7:35 amNew Orleans median home price of $84k is among the lowest in major American cities, certainly among desirable cities.
Why is the government spending “up to $100 billion” to rebuild the homes of only 500,000? That works out to $200k per person, or $800k for a family of four. The guys deserve to be helped in a major way, but that is just way too much money. Just give each of these guys a new home in West Virginia and let the floodland revert back. That would be much cheaper.
Shredstar (532850) — 9/8/2005 @ 7:42 amI have heard it esplained that Bush’s comment was meant to say that on Monday, after the hurricane had passed, no one expected the failing of the levees as occurred later that night, and that the usual bite-size quote led to the misunderstanding. That sounds reasonable enough, but I have not looked at the first hand details.
WMD’s have been discussed ad nauseaum elsewhere. An opinion that we should not have gone into Iraq when we did in itself is a valid opinion. But I have heard no one voice it as a reasonable opinion on it’s own merits, only in the context of slandering President Bush with half-truths (at most).
MD in Philly (b3202e) — 9/9/2005 @ 9:59 am