Patterico's Pontifications

10/5/2021

Ignorant DACA Activists Continue to Create Sympathy for Sinema with Invasive and Disrespectful Stunts

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



Yesterday JVW detailed the remarkable lack of curiosity that some parts of Big Media have had about DACA activists following Kyrsten Sinema into the ladies’ room with the video rolling. The harassment continued yesterday on an airplane, where a snotty kid confronted Sinema, in an airplane seat from which Sinema could not escape, as a colleague of the punk kid took video.

Folks like the Angry Face Emoji Guy who embedded the video tried to tell me that the Real Story was Sinema refusing to speak with a respectful constituent. But I see nothing respectful in this approach, given the combination of the camera and the ambush on a plane where a person cannot walk away. Your Mileage May Vary . . . but then, you may also like stopping traffic on bridges and filming in restrooms too. Also, the twit accosting Sinema is not even aware that Sinema can’t realistically do a thing about any of this:

The irony is that they’re badgering her to do something that’s beyond her power to do. The reason a path to citizenship for illegals isn’t in the reconciliation bill isn’t because of Sinema, it’s because the Senate parliamentarian twice ruled that that process can’t be used to pass immigration reform. Even with Sinema in favor, Schumer would either need 60 votes to advance an immigration amnesty through regular legislation or he’d need his caucus to agree to overrule the parliamentarian, a precedent that would swallow the entirety of Senate legislation in short order.

So: you’re not a citizen, you have no idea what the issues really are, and you’re trying to create a viral video while someone is trapped in their plane seat. And you think this is going to help your cause how?

Oh, well. Like our President says about videotaping Senators in the bathroom: it’s all “part of the process.”

99 Responses to “Ignorant DACA Activists Continue to Create Sympathy for Sinema with Invasive and Disrespectful Stunts”

  1. I’m pretty sure this is the same lady who followed her into the bathroom.

    Patterico (e349ce)

  2. Do you think you except from Biden’s statement presents the reader with a fair view of his intent? Because you left out the part where he said it wasn’t appropriate.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  3. I’m pretty sure this is the same lady who followed her into the bathroom.

    I think so, too. Particularly when she mentioned her father (grandfather?) having passed away. And I strongly suspect that she is a sponsored front person. It’s organized.

    nk (1d9030)

  4. I hope she makes clear that this behavior motivated her to take a harder stance against their desired outcome to discourage similar acts in the future. Also I want the bill to fail.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  5. he’d need his caucus to agree to overrule the parliamentarian, a precedent that would swallow the entirety of Senate legislation in short order.

    That’s what the people who devised his strategy want.

    And of course they have to lie about how politely she was asked. They want to make the alternative to overruling the Parliamentarian look very, very bad. (without saying that the way to make t happen was to overrule the Parlimentarian)

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  6. @2 the full quote:

    “I don’t think they’re appropriate tactics, but it happens to everybody. The only people it doesn’t happen to are people who have Secret Service standing around them. So it’s part of the process.”

    cuz remember that time biden got videotaped in a bathroom by vile knuckleheads?

    what a dumb take

    JF (b13d68)

  7. Are we really surprised? Didn’t Democrat politicians tell them to “get in their faces” and/or “to get confrontational?”

    Why yes. Yes they did.

    Hoi Polloi (7cefeb)

  8. Don Lemon and a federal judge creating sympathy for business owners who had their livelihoods (and more) destroyed in 2020:

    CNN’s @donlemon tries to explain why riots destroying mom & pop shops aren’t as bad as when politicians feel threatened

    https://twitter.com/tomselliott/status/1445373806340608012?s=21

    Obudman (86020d)

  9. Hm, if only there were good conservatives modeling proper behavior.

    Wait, there are! One can find them on Youtube easily by searching for ‘COVID Karen’. The primary difference is punching down, not up.

    It is the conservative way.

    john (cd2753)

  10. It is ironic that these kids will spend the next 50 years being bled to pay the interest on this waste. They are responsible for their own mugging.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  11. I can just see the media not caring if 10 Trump supporters accosted AOC in the loo.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  12. They want to make the alternative to overruling the Parliamentarian look very, very bad. (without saying that the way to make t happen was to overrule the Parlimentarian)

    The Parliamentarian should then loudly resign, calling the Senate “lawless” and opining that while the Senate gets to make their own rules, when they refuse to follow them the Supreme Court ought to step in.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  13. “To my colleagues in the Senate:

    Recently some in the party, clearly orchestrated by some here, have attempted to intimidate me and force my vote. Well, they have. Under no conditions will I vote for this bill, even if you cut the cost back to $1.

    Have a nice day”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  14. What surprises me is that 20 passengers didn’t get up and film the little twits as they berated them for their lack of manners.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  15. The primary difference is punching down, not up.

    When conservatives punch up you call it a riot and send them to jail.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  16. Leftist activists can come to your house with bullhorns. Film you in the bathroom. Loot your business. Burn police stations. The FBI does nothing.
    But if conservative parents raise their voices at a school board meeting, they’re hunted down as terrorists.
    The law is dead.

    — Matt Walsh (@MattWalshBlog) October 5, 2021

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  17. @15, This type of behavior; using force, threats of force, and intimidation to try and coerce elected official needs to stop. Scales are different and an some cases the specifics cross the line into criminality but regardless this isn’t OK. Also, I agree this behavior is of a kind with the Jan 6 terrorist attack on the capital.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  18. Remember these people for what they do and what they condone with every vote you cast.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  19. Jan 6 terrorist attack on the capital.

    FFS… Comedy Gold, Jerry!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  20. @16, what a completely dishonest characterization. I’m not surprised it appealed to your persecution complex.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  21. Mr. Hyperbole

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  22. See 18…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  23. If the Democrats were serious, they would fire the Parliamentarian and replace with someone more malleable. It’s been done before in a 50-50 Senate.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  24. this is pointless, regardless of scale or intent this type of behavior is wrong and needs to be denounced in stronger terms then Biden used and shown to be ineffective.

    Once again when given the chance to show leadership he manages to fail less.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  25. Si a tu asiento llega una chiquita,
    Tratala con cariño, la pobrecita.
    Cuentala tus razoones bien Señora Sinema,
    Por qué no puedes resolver su gran problema.

    Ay, chiquita, que si,
    Ay, si yo fuera dictador,
    Ay, entonces podrías vivir, chiquita,
    A donde vivo yo.

    nk (1d9030)

  26. *razones*

    nk (1d9030)

  27. A better word for these kinds of “activists” is bullies.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  28. The primary difference is punching down, not up.

    lol

    Your leftwing catch phrase is:

    [x] Noted
    [ ] Not Noted

    Hoi Polloi (ade50d)

  29. Hace cuenta de los ratones tambien

    steveg (e81d76)

  30. 25. Google translate

    https://www.google.com/search?q=translate+spanish+into+english

    renders this as: (I changed it where it seemed to get the words in the wrong order and mistake a statement as a question)

    If a little girl comes to your seat,
    Treat her with affection, the poor thing.
    Tell her well your reasons Mrs. Sinema,
    Why you can’t solve his big problem.

    Oh, little girl, yes,
    Oh, if I were a dictator,
    Ay, then you could live, little girl,
    Where I live.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  31. Google translate works, I think, by looking at previously translated text. It doesn’t truly understand anything.

    I note that two times it translates Ay as Oh but the third time leaves it as Ay.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  32. they would fire the Parliamentarian and replace with someone more malleable.

    You would have to get a crook in the job to do what they want.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  33. BTW, if I were a Senator and the president of my party laughed about me being accosted in the loo or on a plane, I would be unlikely to give him the time of day.

    Biden is burning his bridges at both ends.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  34. @33, I’d rather not have this be the thing he starts doing well. I mean, his weak criticism was better then a defense and encouraging more Jacka$$ behavior. But if he’s going to get good at something I’d rather it be the border of economic recovery.

    Time123 (9c0366)

  35. @2

    Do you think you except from Biden’s statement presents the reader with a fair view of his intent? Because you left out the part where he said it wasn’t appropriate.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 10/5/2021 @ 8:50 am

    It’s not enough to say “it wasn’t appropriate” and in the same breath to say “it’s part of the process”.

    Biden NEEDS Sinema, and for him to treat this so cavalierly is some strange 4D chess game.

    But frankly, how is this any different then those accosting Trump Whitehouse staff in restaurants, or BLM protestors confronting folks trying to eat in restaurants?

    It’s more of the same bullying tactic we’ve seen and Biden is largely ambivalent about it.

    whembly (7e0293)

  36. IRS would track all bank transactions over $600 under Biden plan; businesses revolt

    “A letter signed by more than 40 trade associations calls on Congress to reject the proposal, saying it violates customer privacy and would create an incredibly expensive and elaborate reporting requirement for banks.

    A major component of President Joe Biden’s plan to raise revenue to pay for his trillions of dollars in new federal spending is now under fire from trade associations across the country.

    The Biden administration has made clear its plan to beef up IRS auditing by expanding the agency’s funding and power. Biden’s latest proposal would require banks to turn over to the Internal Revenue Service bank account information for all accounts holding more than $600.

    In a sharp pushback against the proposal, more thn 40 trade associations, some of which represent entire industries or economic sectors, signed a letter to U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) raising the alarm about the plan.

    “While the stated goal of this vast data collection is to uncover tax dodging by the wealthy, this proposal is not remotely targeted to that purpose or that population,” the letter said. “In addition to the significant privacy concerns, it would create tremendous liability for all affected parties by requiring the collection of financial information for nearly every American without proper explanation of how the IRS will store, protect, and use this enormous trove of personal financial information. We believe that this program is costly for all parties, not fit for purpose, and loaded with potential for unintended and serious negative consequences.”

    The groups argue it would target “almost every American” and question whether the IRS could keep that information secure from hackers and bad actors.“”

    https://justthenews.com/nation/states/irs-would-track-all-bank-transactions-over-600-under-biden-plan-businesses-revolt

    There are conservatives who voted for this.

    Obudman (86020d)

  37. Only a fool would have sympathy for that shape shifter. She started out running as a green party candidate and when she couldn’t get elected changed to being a progressive democrat. She got to congress by being a progressive in the primary and a blue dog in the general. The libertarian candidate siphoned off republican votes from a black republican to allow sinema to skate thru. She became even more conservative when she ran for the senate against martha mcsalley in the 2018 republican disaster. She is a political hack who will say and do anything that will help her politically. She believes in nothing.

    asset (e6d0de)

  38. I hope she makes clear that this behavior motivated her to take a harder stance against their desired outcome to discourage similar acts in the future. Also I want the bill to fail.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 10/5/2021 @ 8:51 am

    I’m going to repeat what I said in the other thread because I think it’s important. What you’re suggesting is a terrible, unprincipled way to make public policy. I’m surprised you’re doing it. Cornering people in bathrooms and on airplanes is contemptible. The perpetrator and her abetters should be ridiculed and shunned. But for a US Senator to alter a position on any bill or policy in response couldn’t be more wrong. Bernie and the Squad’s tax and spend reconciliation proposal is terrible policy. It deserves to fail on its merits. But imagine it was something worthwhile and important. Should the American people be deprived of something valuable, maybe even essential because an entitled jerk does something obnoxious? When Nazis march in Skokie, principled people don’t try to infringe the First Amendment. They separate the people from the policy.

    lurker (59504c)

  39. Biden, the cavalier caballero? He maybe used the wrong fuse box when he said “part of the process” but he’s right. It does come with the territory.

    And I’ll also repeat myself from the other thread. Sinema did not get to where she is by not knowing what to say.

    nk (1d9030)

  40. French’s latest.

    Both sides of the political spectrum should loudly and unequivocally condemn stalking and harassment of elected officials and private citizens.

    Here’s another: Both sides of the political spectrum should support police protection for threatened citizens and vigorous prosecution of unlawful threats or attacks.

    And for goodness sakes, can we not first waste time debating “which side is worse” before we set some basic principles and basic parameters? The partisan posture all too often goes something like this: “I will take you seriously only so long as you acknowledge that my side is mostly right, and the other side is mostly wrong.”

    How about this: Let’s call out, condemn, and prosecute (if appropriate) threats and harassment whenever they occur, wherever they occur, and then make partisan judgments accordingly.

    I would also add that behavior such as that against Sinema are tactically stupid and counterproductive, akin to protesters blocking freeways.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  41. @40 How is blocking freeways counter productive? Daca kids blocked a road to a trump rally in az. This infuriated republicans that they passed a law against it. This is a tactic that is hard to ignore.

    asset (e6d0de)

  42. How is blocking freeways counter productive? Daca kids blocked a road to a trump rally in az.

    They block our freeways and then they expect us to let them live in our country?

    nk (1d9030)

  43. …if for no other reason, DACAns forfeit the “at least we don’t block freeways like those BLM (Spanish slang performative)” argument

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  44. If Garland had the time to craft a memo instructing the FBI to investigate school board meetings, I see no reason he could not have dedicated a paragraph or two ensuring the FBI investigated people harassing and filming women in bathrooms, or sitting in an airplane with no way to escape. Or even instructed the FBI to investigate groups of people who somehow congregate at protests and end up burning buildings.

    But hey, at least the FBI will stop those nasty conservative Karens and Kens from voicing their displeasure with Liberal Canon.

    Hoi Polloi (998b37)

  45. Protesters blocked freeways in Florida supporting the Cuban protests in July.

    Demonstrators expressing solidarity with the thousands of Cubans who waged a rare weekend of protests around their island nation shut down a stretch of a major South Florida expressway Tuesday.

    The large group gathered at a busy Miami intersection chanting support for the Cubans, who had taken to the streets in the communist nation Sunday to air grievances about poor economic conditions and other complaints.
    ………
    Miami wasn’t the only Florida city where demonstrators gathered. For a second day, Cuban-Americans in Tampa gathered Tuesday at an intersection, blocking traffic and waving Cuban flags. Like the group in South Florida, Tampa demonstrators attempted to gain access to Interstate 275, but police held them back. Television images showed dozens of protesters in a city that traces its Cuban heritage back generations. Orlando also had hundreds of protestors blocking a busy street for about an hour Tuesday evening.

    …….
    News helicopter footage from broadcaster WTVJ showed demonstrators earlier Tuesday marching to Miami’s Palmetto Expressway, where many blocked traffic in the afternoon.
    ……..

    And there were no arrests. I guess it depends on the popularity of the issue.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  46. ..”perjorative)”

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  47. Blocking a freeway in Arizona in 110 degree heat should be treated the same way as stealing a man’s horse in the desert used to be.

    nk (1d9030)

  48. A word to protesters: Don’t you touch my damn freeways. It’ll only make me hate you and your stupid little causey cause.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  49. You affecta my commute, I breaka you face.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  50. Protesters blocking roads have been run over and even shot (some times protesters shoot back) It is a tactic that is difficult to ignore. In other countries and in other times in this country protesters have set up road blocks to stop cars and “DEAL” with people they don’t like in the car. Both sides have done this.

    asset (fc1f58)

  51. She believes in nothing.

    If she doesn’t believe in socialism, it’s a start.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  52. But for a US Senator to alter a position on any bill or policy in response couldn’t be more wrong.

    Why? Would you rather they did if for the National Kumquat Museum in their state?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  53. Blocking a freeway in Arizona in 110 degree heat should be treated the same way as stealing a man’s horse in the desert used to be.

    Blocking a freeway in Los Angeles should be treated …. oh wait, how could you tell?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  54. Why don’t you people hold a candlelight vigil for your cellar dweller?

    mg (8cbc69)

  55. Weekend Open Thread 10/1: “It’s nothing less than obscene to equate Covid mandates with anything to do with the Holocaust and imagery associated with it.”

    10/4: “Yellow badges to identity the vaccinated in Germany 🇩🇪 “

    https://rp-online.de/nrw/staedte/moers/moers-gelber-ansteckknopf-wirbt-fuers-impfen_aid-63323479

    Obudman (86020d)

  56. Lurker, I’m not saying she should let these intimidation tactics be the sole, or even main, factor. But you’re dreaming if you think decision makers aren’t moved by things like this and I would like her to let it be known that this behavior had a negative impact.

    that’s an easy stance for me to take since my desired policy outcome is that we not pass the budget bill with all this social spending.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  57. It’s a shame the MAGA base (see comment 44 for an example) can’t differentiate between the completely unacceptable behavior of these protestors and the possible criminal behavior of protestors making threats of violence.
    https://nsba.org/-/media/NSBA/File/nsba-letter-to-president-biden-concerning-threats-to-public-schools-and-school-board-members-92921.pdf

    In Ohio, an individual mailed a letter to a school board member labeling the return address on the envelope from a local neighborhood association and then enclosing threatening hate mail from another entity.21 This correspondence states that, “We are coming after you and all the members on the … BoE [Board of Education].” This hate mail continues by stating, “You are forcing them to wear mask—for no reason in this world other than control. And for that you will pay dearly.”

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  58. It’s a shame the MAGA base (see comment 44 for an example) can’t differentiate between the completely unacceptable behavior of these protestors and the possible criminal behavior of protestors making threats of violence.

    It’s a shame you can’t see the difference between arson and violence and a strongly worded letter.

    BTW, here in Virginia McAuliffe is getting lit like a Christmas tree for saying parents shouldn’t have any say in their children’s education.

    Yes, you heard that right. But you shouldn’t be surprised.

    A Democrat wants bureaucrats making all the educational decisions for the children, free from any of the desires of those pesky parents.

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9)

  59. Way to justify the a$$holes threatening local school board members HP. But it’s good people like you keep reminding me that as bad as they far left is, MAGA is, as bad if not worse, and the mainstream of the GOP.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  60. Way to justify the a$$holes threatening local school board members HP. But it’s good people like you keep reminding me that as bad as they far left is, MAGA is, as bad if not worse, and the mainstream of the GOP.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 10/6/2021 @ 5:16 am

    You have provided no evidence of any threats. Strongly worded letters are not threats of violence.

    Hoi Polloi (093fb9)

  61. I have. I quoted one threat ( “we’re coming after you ….and will make you pay dearly”) and there’s more at the link. they also provide more in the footnotes. But you like the people making these threats so you’re OK with it. The only reason you object to the bathroom harassers is that you disagree with them.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  62. @63 Time, nothing you quoted is a threat of violence and contextually it reads to me that the “threat” is going after the political office.

    whembly (28d712)

  63. “We are coming after you” and “you will pay dearly” can be fairly seen as threat, Hoi. It’s no longer a political matter. It’s criminal, and the purveyor should be prosecuted.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  64. @64, Seems pretty threatening to me. As do many of the other examples in the linked document. As does following a woman into the bathroom to badger her on a controversial issue. But YMMV.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  65. Whembly, does this scene sounds non-threatening to you as well?

    https://www.heraldnet.com/opinion/editorial-mobs-actions-at-school-board-meeting-unacceptable/

    Again, I’m not saying this is worse or justifies or minimizes behavior by people advocating other things. I’m saying *all* of this is unacceptable.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  66. The part of the quote Time left out starting with the line he chose as important:

    …This hate mail continues by stating, “You are forcing them to wear mask—for no reason in this world other than control. And for that you will pay dearly.”

    Among other incendiaries, this same threat also calls the school board member a “filthy traitor,” implies loss of pension funds, and labels the school board as Marxist.

    I would think that an “educator” losing their Cadillac pension would be a version of “paying dearly.” But that isn’t narrative worthy. Should make you wonder about the “coming after you” context. I know the answer because I looked for the entire letter. What is funny is that there is one line in the letter that actually does sound like a problematic threat, and that wasn’t included in the NSBA tear jerker.

    The quality of comments around here hasn’t improved much, but the outrage grows.

    Later.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  67. School board members aren’t educators, they’re elected officials who typically don’t get pensions. But by all means keep making stuff up to pretend this behavior is OK.

    When you wonder why the average voter doesn’t rebel at the left because things like their activists did in the OP it’s because people like you make clear you’re OK with these actions, you just want them aimed a different direction.

    Biden was at least able to offer weak, mealy mouthed criticism. You can’t manage even that.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  68. There may be a few commenters here who should be beaten with the jawbone of an ass. Theirs, preferably.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  69. “Those who know how to enjoy life do exactly that. Those who don’t, well, they argue about politics.”

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  70. Just to keep the context clear

    A state senator was followed into the bathroom and badgered with questions. We agree that’s. NOK.
    Medium sized town school board members get threatening letters, have things thrown at them, are physically prevented from leaving after a meeting and you want to twist yourselves in knots to pretend that’s just fine.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  71. What’s all this than!?!?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  72. @67

    Whembly, does this scene sounds non-threatening to you as well?

    https://www.heraldnet.com/opinion/editorial-mobs-actions-at-school-board-meeting-unacceptable/

    Again, I’m not saying this is worse or justifies or minimizes behavior by people advocating other things. I’m saying *all* of this is unacceptable.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 10/6/2021 @ 7:00 am

    To the level of having the AG sicc the FBI on them?

    Sure we can criticize these behaviors and maybe even advocate for social opprobrium.

    But what are the “rules” Time?

    The only thing I’d ask is that we apply the same rules equally, even if I don’t like it or advocate it.

    whembly (28d712)

  73. Whembly, that’s fair. Here’s the actual letter: https://www.justice.gov/ag/page/file/1438986/download

    It directs the FBI to have a meeting and discuss strategies and open dedicated lines of communication to report threats. Is there context I’m missing that makes this objectionable?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  74. Whembly, I Wanted to add that if the actual action by the DOJ was to open an investigation on these a-hole protestors, i would agree they were ‘siccing’ the FBI on them. But that wasn’t what he did. He told the FBI to meet with the local authorities, discuss how to deal with the problem that’s being alleged, and make sure they have a process to report actions they feel merit FBI follow up. That doesn’t feel very punitive at any given tribe. And, if by sides we’re talking about Sinema, she has those communications channels.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  75. https://www.foxnews.com/us/colorado-health-system-denies-kidney-transplant-unvaccinated

    Deciding the great unwashed are worthy of survival or helping others survive.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  76. @77 Wrong again. There are over 100,000 people waiting for a kidney and they prioritize for factors that makes a positive outcome more likely. They aren’t picking on you or your team.

    https://www.uclahealth.org/transplants/kidney/adult-transplant

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  77. “For transplant patients who contract COVID-19, the mortality rate ranges from about 20% to more than 30%. This shows the extreme risk that COVID-19 poses to transplant recipients after their surgeries,” the health system told CBS4. The health system also noted that patients have been required to receive other vaccines, such as for hepatitis B, to help ensure a transplant won’t be rejected.

    Transplant recipients will be on immune-suppressants for the rest of their lives, so whatever antibodies they want to have, they’d better get them in advance. Never mind Covid, a mild pneumonia could kill them.

    nk (1d9030)

  78. @76 and @77: The issue is the chilling effects on discourse. Especially since these local issues that the shouldn’t warrant the FBI’s limited attention/resources.

    whembly (0a8536)

  79. @78 and @79:
    Something doesn’t jive here.

    I donated my kidney to my inlaw 17 years ago, so I’m familiar with the process.

    It’s not automatic that recipients must get a bevvy of vaccinations. You don’t want to super-charge your immune system right before the surgery. (you’re literally trying to accept a foreign tissue!). So, when it’s scheduled, these vaccinations are mapped out strategically with constant oversight.

    After the surgery, the patient is monitored continually until the right cocktail of immuno-supressent meds are optimized, THEN at that point vaccinations are considered. But there’s a very regimented manner how this is done pre/during/post surgery.

    I think requiring a covid vaccine for transplant recipient before surgery by policy is a mistake as, you don’t have enough data to effective determine that such a mandate is in the best interest for the donor recipient. It really should be adjudicated in a case-by-case basis, which is pretty much how most transplants are conducted anyways.

    whembly (0a8536)

  80. @76 Time123, this pretty much sums up my perspective too:
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/10/dojs-appalling-crackdown-on-parents/

    whembly (0a8536)

  81. Whembly, my problem with that is that what they’re criticizing has little relationship to the actual letter Garland wrote. They’re getting outraged at phantoms.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  82. I’ve been thinking about your comment @80. If they opened actual investigations, or stated they were in panning to I’d completely agree with you. But I don’t see how their actual statements create a chilling effect.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  83. have. I quoted one threat ( “we’re coming after you ….and will make you pay dearly”)

    “We are coming after you” and “you will pay dearly” can be fairly seen as threat, Hoi. It’s no longer a political matter. It’s criminal, and the purveyor should be prosecuted.

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 10/6/2021 @ 6:27 am

    I would submit to the both of you that when a sitting president told his supporters “when they bring a knife, we bring a gun” it was seen by most as hyperbole, or someone taking a movie quote out of context at worst. I think the same case can be made with these “threats.”

    Again, on the flip side, we have the sitting FBI Director telling Congress that Antifa is an idea, not an organization. No FBI investigation into a group of violent protestors that somehow converge on a protest and start violence and burning.

    Which is more important to investigate – an HOA or Antifa?

    Let me guess…the HOA.

    Hoi Polloi (15cfac)

  84. 12. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/5/2021 @ 10:06 am

    The Parliamentarian should then loudly resign, calling the Senate “lawless” and opining that while the Senate gets to make their own rules, when they refuse to follow them the Supreme Court ought to step in.

    That would be telling an independent branch of government what to do. Some might also say that the proper response to anything like that is political.

    And how would the Supreme Court get involved? Only by a lawsuit, in which it was claimed a law was not validly passed. But all that the constitution requires is a majority of a quorum. (although precedent holds that even a few paltry members can pass a bill, if they do it without a roll call vote – without taking down the names – without the Ayes and Nays – so long as nobody calls attention to the fact that they are missing a quorum, sort of like when a cartoon characters runs off a cliff, but doesn’t fal till he looks down and sees there’s nothing underneath him but air.

    And the constitution says:

    Anyway, the budget resolution will fail to pass, or not come to a vote by October 18.

    Related:

    https://constitutioncenter.org/interactive-constitution/full-text

    Article I, Section 5, Clause 2:

    Each House may determine the Rules of its Proceedings, punish its Members for disorderly Behaviour, and, with the Concurrence of two thirds, expel a Member.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  85. Haiku: “Those who know how to enjoy life do exactly that. Those who don’t, well, they argue about politics.”

    BuDuh: “The quality of comments around here hasn’t improved much, but the outrage grows.”

    Interesting comments. I agree with the subtext of Haiku’s comment, that most political stuff…especially these days when little of importance is actually done….should occupy a small 1% of life. Yes, taxes matter…and regulations matter….and mandates matter…..and foreign policy and trade matters, but being a decent person and interacting in the real world is far more important. Too many people are serially angry and fearful and it reflects in their disposition.

    I think it’s important to understand what’s going on politically, but to not exaggerate its importance and hyperbolically attack someone who is not on your team….with all the obligations that being on that team entails. Much of the political gamesmanship going on these days is extremely tedious….seen it…know the result…spins up some people….nothing much changes, except some people get even more hardened in their attitudes. I’m not sure how healthy it is to come here and lash out at people….I don’t really know….and in many cases are just interacting to elicit that acidic response. You know, push someone’s buttons to get off on their response. It’s not that it doesn’t happen in person…it does…it’s just that we don’t generally want to come across as an a$$ in the real analog world. Anonymity and the fact that there is no-cost at being an internet a$$…has normalized it.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  86. HP, You’re not going to convince me that it’s OK to use threats an intimidation to influence elected officials. I think it’s not. You disagree.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  87. Like the use of informants in conspiracy cases, I think the FBI should only investigate overt crimes, and not statements, whether or not they are threats to individuals. They should let them play out, and only arrest perps when an actual crime has been committed against someone.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  88. @89, not relevant. So far the FBI isn’t investigating anything here. They’re going to have a meeting to talk strategy and make sure there’s a dedicated line of communication people can us to report threats.

    None of which has anything to do with overtly threatening behavior directed at school board members for mid sized towns, not matter how much people who identify with those making threats want to make that the point.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  89. I disagree, it is relevant. The FBI shouldn’t investigate ” overtly threatening behavior” (whatever that is) until the “threats” are carried out.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  90. Screaming obscenities at a school board member from the hall way, throwing things at them, blocking their car so they can’t leave is not acceptable. Following Sinema into the bathroom to badger her and creat a viral moment is not acceptable. Whether or not the FBI investigates the behavior has no bearing on if the behavior is itself appropriate.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  91. There is a limited federal nexus. It could involve using the mail or interstate communications to make threats.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  92. But you’re dreaming if you think decision makers aren’t moved by things like this and I would like her to let it be known that this behavior had a negative impact.

    That politicians do something doesn’t make it right. I never said they don’t. I said they shouldn’t.

    that’s an easy stance for me to take since my desired policy outcome is that we not pass the budget bill with all this social spending.

    If I read that correctly that you may have a different view when the policy is one you support, that’s what makes what you’re encouraging Sinema to do unprincipled.

    lurker (59504c)

  93. Lurker, I think what the activist did is wrong. Further I see it as part of a broader erosion of norms that both parties are participating in. I think this type of behavior needs pushback. I want Sinema to take a harder stance then she otherwise would have. I’m admitting that this desire aligns with my policy preferences. So in this case both my preferences about norms and policy get me to the same place.

    If it helps think of it as the opposite of a politician being moved by an especially sympathetic constituent’s situation. So instead of her saying “I met little Ralph, say his horrible situation and now I’m more opened to modifying may position.” I want her to say “because these ppl are a who sack full of a holes I’m not not inclined to budge.”

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  94. 2010 was a turning point with the tea party in the republican party on civility. The democrat party’s turning point was 2016 with trumps election. The democrat establishment forced the base to except the corrupt hillary clinton under the guise of being the safe electable choice and moderate republicans would vote for civility. It was discredited. google 2016 election night coverage the young turks part 2 on what the base thought of “when they go low we go high” BS! The discredited establishment barely got joe biden thru the skepticism of the base thru covid 19 subterfuge of the primaries. When the base says jump joe biden and pelosi have to ask how high? The squad not the dnc is the thought leader of the democratic party now as are populist trumpsters for the republican party.

    asset (822f0c)

  95. Lurker, I think what the activist did is wrong. Further I see it as part of a broader erosion of norms that both parties are participating in. I think this type of behavior needs pushback.

    I agree. But that doesn’t mean tying a Congressional vote to avenging a personal grievance.

    I want Sinema to take a harder stance then she otherwise would have.

    And the difference between the stance you want her to take and the one she otherwise would have taken is personal payback, not principled pushback.

    I’m admitting that this desire aligns with my policy preferences. So in this case both my preferences about norms and policy get me to the same place.

    It aligns with my policy preference too, but just because something causes a result I like doesn’t make it OK. You’re not addressing the fact that a politician engaging in behavior you approve of when it gets you a result you like, but might disapprove of if it didn’t, is unprincipled. In fact, it’s the same ends-justify-the-means reasoning that apologists for the bathroom intruders rely on.

    If it helps think of it as the opposite of a politician being moved by an especially sympathetic constituent’s situation. So instead of her saying “I met little Ralph, say his horrible situation and now I’m more opened to modifying may position.” I want her to say “because these ppl are a who sack full of a holes I’m not not inclined to budge.”

    I happen to think that that kind of policy-by-moving-anecdote is bad too, but at least in your hypothetical there’s a substantive nexus between the anecdote and the policy. Here, the behavior you want Sinema to respond to with Senatorial power has nothing to do with the proposed legislation you want it to inform.

    lurker (59504c)

  96. Unlike the fake Trump pee story that cost Hillary cash, a pee tape with a blond lady US Senator should find a ton of buyers. Ummm, or so I’ve heard…

    steveg (e81d76)

  97. Patterico always seems surprised by what the Left does. You would think someone who prosecuted dozens of murderers wouldn’t be surprised by much of anything.

    DN (9791af)

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