Patterico's Pontifications

10/1/2021

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 6:53 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Welcome to the weekend. Let’s go!

First news item

California mandates vaccines for students:

In the first such action in the nation, Gov. Gavin Newsom issued a mandate Friday requiring all eligible public and private schoolchildren in California to be vaccinated against COVID-19, a policy the state expects to affect millions of students.

The mandate would take effect for grades 7 through 12 the semester following the U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s full approval of the vaccine for children ages 12 and older, according to the governor’s office. Students in kindergarten through sixth grade would be phased in after the vaccine is formally approved for younger children…

Medical and religious exemptions would be available.

Under the governor’s order, unvaccinated students will have the option of enrolling in a fully online school, attending independent-study programs offered by school districts or be homeschooled.

Question: Will Gov. Newsom get his 12-year old vaccinated?

Second news item

Just STFU about yellow stars and Covid oppresion already:

The mayor of Alaska’s largest city apologized Thursday for his comments supporting some residents’ use of Holocaust imagery to liken a proposed citywide mask mandate to the oppression of Jewish people in Nazi Germany.

Anchorage Mayor Dave Bronson has said he staunchly opposes the proposal and initially defended the use of yellow Stars of David worn by other critics this week at heated public hearings. Such imagery has been used by opponents of mask and vaccine mandates across the US, drawing condemnation from the Anti-Defamation League and other Jewish organizations.

The proposal before the Anchorage Assembly would require people to wear masks in indoor public spaces and outdoors at large events. If approved as written, businesses and building owners would be required to deny entry to people not wearing masks, though there are exceptions for small children and some others.

It’s nothing less than obscene to equate Covid mandates with anything to do with the Holocaust and imagery associated with it. And yet:

*Assembly Member Christopher Constant is gay.*

Keep covering yourselves in glory, Alaska.

Third news item

Hoo-boy:

The Federal Reserve’s preferred inflation gauge, the core personal consumption expenditures price index, which excludes food and energy costs, soared to a 30-year high in August.

The measure increased 0.3 percent for the month and was up 3.6 percent from last year in its steepest climb since May 1991, a trend suggesting that the pandemic’s inflationary pressures, catalyzed by massive government spending, supply chain bottlenecks and surging demand, are not correcting as quickly as some economists anticipated…

Personal income increased 0.2 percent for the month, while spending increased by 0.8 percent…

Much of the price index data from the last several months has validated the argument that inflation may not be a transitory phenomenon this time around. However, some economists and financial analysts cited by the White House to justify their $3.5 trillion spending bill still believe inflation will subside as soon as market disequilibriums balance.

Fourth news item

Promising antiviral pill on the way?:

An investigational antiviral pill reduced the chances that patients newly diagnosed with Covid-19 would be hospitalized by about 50%, a finding that could give doctors a desperately needed new way to treat the sick, the drug maker Merck announced Friday.

A five-day course of molnupiravir, developed by Merck and Ridgeback Biotherapeutics, reduced both hospitalization and death compared to a placebo. In the placebo group, 53 patients, or 14.1%, were hospitalized or died. For those who received the drug, 28, or 7.3%, were hospitalized or died…

“If this pans out, it will change the landscape,” said Andy Pavia, chief of the Division of Pediatric Infectious Diseases at University of Utah. “There’s still a lot we need to know. What does the side effect profile look like? Do we know how to dose it in populations that are different such as children and the obese? But as a top-line result, this is definitely exciting.”

Fifth news item

Righting a wrong:

In a history-making move…Gov. Gavin Newsom has authorized the return of property known as Bruce’s Beach to the descendants of a Black couple that had been run out of Manhattan Beach almost a century ago.

Senate Bill 796, signed into law Thursday by Newsom…confirms that the city’s taking of this shorefront land — on which the Bruces ran a thriving resort for Black beachgoers — was racially motivated and done under false and unlawful pretenses.

Background:

By 1912, Willa Bruce had purchased for $1,225 the first of two lots along the Strand between 26th and 27th streets. While her husband, Charles, worked as a dining-car chef on the train running between Salt Lake City and L.A., Willa ran a popular lodge, cafe and dance hall — providing Black families a way to enjoy a weekend on the coast.

Many referred to this area as Bruce’s Beach. A few more Black families, drawn to this new community, bought and built their own cottages by the sea.

Then the ugliness happened:

But white neighbors resented Bruce’s growing popularity. Tires were slashed. The Ku Klux Klan purportedly set fire to a mattress under the main deck and torched a Black-owned home nearby. Fake “10 minutes only” parking signs were posted to deter Black out-of-town folk. To reach the ocean, visitors had to walk an extra half mile around property owned by Peck, who had lined it with security and “No Trespassing” signs…

When racism failed to drive the Bruce’s Beach community out of town, city officials in 1924 condemned the neighborhood and seized more than two dozen properties through eminent domain. The reason, they said, was an urgent need for a public park.

But for decades, the properties sat empty. The Bruces’ two oceanfront parcels were transferred to the state in 1948, then to the county in 1995. As for the remaining lots, city officials eventually turned them into a pretty park overlooking the sea.

Sixth news item

But of course:

What got lost amid all the talking this week was another kind of bottom line: while Democrats were fighting about liberal spending priorities in debates that at times resembled a congressional version of fantasy football, they were neither passing Biden’s agenda nor bolstering the case for his Presidency. The stakes for Biden are about as existential as they come in politics; his approval ratings are dropping, and his time is running out to get anything done in Congress before the midterm elections—when the Party’s majorities may disappear. And they may not last even that long, given the actuarial tables in the Senate, where a single sick or retiring senator could overnight end Biden’s Presidency when it comes to major legislative initiatives.

The person who benefits the most from all of this, of course, is someone who was rarely mentioned this week but should have been: Donald Trump.

Seventh news item

More please:

[Thomas Chatterton Williams]…who is known as one of the leading critics of the “progressive” identity politics gripping the west but doesn’t sit comfortably on either side of the divide. To his detractors on the left he is an “anti-woke” crusader who gives racists and transphobes a platform; to others on the right he is an “enabler” of just the kind of illiberalism he denounces…

…I ask him if he ever worries that while he apparently eschews tribal identity politics, he himself has become part of a tribe, a tribe that his critics would call “anti-woke”.

“I am not ideologically anti-woke, I’m just not woke — I think that’s a very important distinction. I think you can get into your own blind religious fervour with anti-wokeness, and then you reproduce the same errors you’re ostensibly trying to counteract,” he says…

Williams opposes CRT…because he doesn’t share the idea that racism is permanent, and because he thinks CRT recreates and exacerbates the forces it claims to want to counteract. But he wanted to make clear that outlawing something you don’t agree with is not the answer.

“It’s not like it gets any good points with the people that hate you from the left — they say it’s too little too late . . . and you get nothing but hate from the right . . . But I’m in this because I’m trying to be honest, I’m not in this because I want to play for a team. I’ve lost people who had become allies — I lost a bunch of them with that op-ed…people that we thought respected us for thinking clearly. No, they just wanted people on their team, and they’re just as tribal as the worst people they say they’re against.”

Eighth news item

Good:

The deadline has passed for unvaccinated New York City public school employees to get their first dose of the COVID-19 shot or face suspension and possible termination, after Supreme Court Justice Sonia Sotomayor declined to provide a last minute reprieve Friday.

Sotomayor denied the request by a group of teachers for an emergency injunction. She did not issue any explanation or statement, and she did not refer the matter to the full court for a vote…

The city had given its roughly 148,000 school employees until 5 p.m. to get their first shot or be suspended without pay when schools open on Monday.

Ninth news item

Couldn’t get it done:

Ah:

Yikes:

Panama foreign minister Erika Mouynes expressed frustration to Axios that the Biden administration seemed caught off guard by the Haitian migrant crisis because “we sounded the alarm when we should have.”

The worst may still be coming. Mouynes said there are as many as 60,000 migrants — mostly Haitian — poised to make their way north to the U.S.-Mexico border.

Panama is expecting more migrants to cross through the dangerous jungles of the Darién Gap this month than in all of 2019 — nearly 27,000, according to Panamanian government estimates provided to Axios.
Mouynes is calling on the U.S. to help enforce a plan coordinated with countries in the region, saying, ultimately, “Let’s recognize that they all are heading toward the U.S.”

…Mouynes expressed her exasperation to Axios after spending months warning leaders across the hemisphere of the impeding Haitian wave.

“We’ve engaged with every single authority that we can think of, that we can come across, to say, ‘Please, let’s pay attention to this,'” Mouynes said.

MISCELLANEOUS

Untitled
Georges Lacombe 1894

The stunning painting hangs at the Norton Simon Museum, perhaps my favorite museum in Los Angeles. It’s a rather large oil on canvas. Coupled with vibrant reds and golds, it really is quite a vision.

Have a good weekend.

–Dana

152 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Thank you for these weekend open threads, Dana! Have you considered auditioning to be the “Weekend Update” anchor on Saturday Night Live. :)

    As for your third item, I wonder how long it will be before we see Two Dollar Stores? I’ve noticed that Three-Buck Chuck wine at Trader Joes is now four bucks. Moreover, they shrank the bottle!

    norcal (b9a35f)

  2. RIP George Frayne (77), frontman for the band Commander Cody and His Lost Planet Airmen.

    Rip Murdock (36e2c3)

  3. Dammit Ron DeSantis

    “I’ve noticed the media have stopped covering numbers in places like FL, GA, TX and TN. I wonder why.”

    “It seems so odd that the media holds Ron DeSantis personally responsible for a surge in COVID cases in Florida in the summer but feel no need to mention a rapid 50% case decline in the fall, doesn’t it?”

    JF (e1156d)

  4. Last month, the State Department updated the stats on George W. Bush’s PEPFAR:

    Since its inception in 2003, PEPFAR has invested over $85 billion in the global HIV/AIDS response, saving 20 million lives, preventing millions of HIV infections, and supporting several countries to achieve HIV epidemic control – all while significantly strengthening global health security.

    PEPFAR’s strategic rigor has allowed the program to significantly expand its lifesaving results and impact without increased financial resources over the past nine years.

    That’s an increase from 18 million lives last year

    Saving those 20 million lives — so far — makes me proud to be an American. And, incidentally, impressed by the skill of the diplomats who were able to make the program work in some difficult places.

    We should recognize that controlling AIDS, and other communicable diseases, world wide, is in our long term self interest.

    (We can be very happy that neither Obama nor Trump tinkered with success.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  5. Dianne Feinstein Introduces Bill To Require COVID Vaccination In Order To Fly Domestically

    https://summit.news/2021/10/01/dianne-feinstein-introduces-bill-to-require-covid-vaccination-in-order-to-fly-domestically/

    Obudman (86020d)

  6. “The U.S. already has a $1.2 billion contract with Merck at $700 per 10-pill course. That’s 1.7 million courses.

    U.S. holds options up to $3.7 billion.”

    https://twitter.com/kerpen/status/1443926073473908738?s=21

    $70 a pill.

    The anti-Covid pill kit in India is $2.50

    Obudman (86020d)

  7. california students must get vaccinated but not teachers

    and not illegals

    french laundry values

    JF (e1156d)

  8. Obudman (86020d) — 10/1/2021 @ 8:29 pm-

    No doubt India (and most countries)!impose price controls and/or ignores patent rights.

    Rip Murdock (36e2c3)

  9. We’re being told 22-23 school year for vax requirements at the earliest.

    @7 Staff too, JF.

    (beginning of the school year has eaten my brain. Hope y’all are doing well.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  10. Covid is killing rural Americans at twice the rate of people in urban areas
    ……..
    Since the pandemic began, about 1 in 434 rural Americans have died from Covid, compared with roughly 1 in 513 urban Americans, the (Rural Policy Research Institute’s) data shows. And though vaccines have reduced overall Covid death rates since the winter peak, rural mortality rates are now more than double that of urban ones — and accelerating quickly.
    ……..
    Part of the problem is that Covid incidence rates in September were roughly 54 percent higher in rural areas than elsewhere, said Fred Ullrich, a University of Iowa College of Public Health research analyst who co-wrote the institute’s report. He said the analysis compared the rates between nonmetropolitan, or rural, areas and metropolitan, or urban, areas. In 39 states, he added, rural counties had higher rates of Covid than their urban counterparts.
    ……..
    Still, the high incidence of cases and low vaccination rates don’t fully capture why mortality rates are so much higher in rural areas than elsewhere. Academics and officials alike describe rural Americans’ greater rates of poor health and their limited options for medical care as a deadly combination. The pressures of the pandemic have compounded the problem by deepening staffing shortages at hospitals, creating a cycle of worsening access to care.
    ……..
    Vaccinations are the most effective way to prevent Covid infections from turning deadly. Roughly 41 percent of rural America was vaccinated as of Sept. 23, compared with about 53 percent of urban America, according to an analysis by The Daily Yonder, a newsroom covering rural America. Limited supplies and low access made shots hard to get in the far-flung regions at first, but officials and academics now blame vaccine hesitancy, misinformation and politics for the low vaccination rates.
    ……..
    Access to medical care has long bedeviled swaths of rural America — since 2005, 181 rural hospitals have closed. A 2020 KHN analysis found that more than half of U.S. counties, many of them largely rural, don’t have a hospital with intensive care unit beds.

    Pre-pandemic, rural Americans had 20 percent higher overall death rates than those who live in urban areas, due to their lower rates of insurance, higher rates of poverty and more limited access to health care, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s 2019 National Center for Health Statistics.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (36e2c3)

  11. The last time inflation took off, it was as the cost of the Vietnam War was monetized by the Fed. Then the US left the gold standard and let the dollar float. And it did, pretty much untethered, until saner heads prevailed in 1980.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  12. California has strict vaccination requirements now. Try to get a kid into school without a measles vaccine. Unless you have a doctor who is willing to bet his license that your kid is allergic to the vaccine, neither a public nor a private school can admit them.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  13. Nice to hear from you, Nic.

    Dana (174549)

  14. @Dana@13 *waves in v. tired* 😛

    Nic (896fdf)

  15. Corey Lewandowski‘s (and Kristi Noem’s) very bad week:

    Kristi Noem Shows Why Republicans Can’t Have Nice Things

    Multiple sources have informed American Greatness that South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem is having an extramarital affair with adviser Corey Lewandowski, who previously served as a campaign manager for Donald Trump. The alleged fling reportedly has continued for months, sources say.

    Lewandowski accompanied Noem across the country as she stumped for Trump’s reelection last year. According to South Dakota Republicans, former Noem chief of staff Joshua Shields left, in part, because of Lewandowski’s butting in. Lewandowski, who is married with four children, still has the former president’s ear, which he reportedly uses to Noem’s advantage.
    …….
    Noem, a married mother of three, has been eyed as a possible running mate for a Trump presidential bid in 2024. ……..
    ……..
    “There are members of Congress close to Mar-a-Lago who have called the affair ‘an open secret’ and worried that about Noem’s viability as a national candidate and within the movement,” a source familiar with the matter told American Greatness.
    ………
    The Associated Press reported this week that after a South Dakota state agency denied her daughter’s application to become a certified real estate appraiser, Noem met with the state employee who ran the agency, the woman’s direct supervisor, the state labor secretary, and her daughter. Four months later, Noem’s daughter received her certification. Shortly after that, the labor secretary demanded the retirement of Sherry Bren, the agency head, according to a complaint reviewed by the Associated Press. South Dakota’s attorney general announced Tuesday that he is looking into the matter.
    ………
    ……… The reports of an affair with Lewandowski and strong-arming nepotism represent personal duplicity in a woman who has already proven politically hypocritical.
    ……….
    You’ve got to wonder which 2024 Republicans fed this story to American Greatness: Ron DeSantis, Marco Rubio, Darling Nikki? Kristi Noem has denied any affair.

    Related:

    Trump donor: Corey Lewandowski made unwanted sexual advances
    ………
    Trashelle Odom, the wife of Idaho construction executive John Odom, alleges that Lewandowski repeatedly touched her, including on her leg and buttocks, and spoke to her in sexually graphic terms. Odom said that Lewandowski “stalked” her throughout the evening (at a Las Vegas charity event).
    ………

    Kristi Noem cuts ties with adviser Corey Lewandowski after donor alleged unwanted sexual advances

    Rip Murdock (36e2c3)

  16. The end of Lewandowski’s very bad week:

    Corey Lewandowski fired from Trump PAC after sexual harassment allegations

    Rip Murdock (36e2c3)

  17. I came pretty close to writing up the whole Bruce’s Beach saga in a post here, given that it is taking place two towns up from me. There’s a great deal to the story, and given the tenor of the times it won’t surprise anyone to know that modern race issues play a good deal into this, including questions of what students should be taught in the Manhattan Beach schools vis a vis critical race theory.

    Anyway, I think giving the parcels back to the family is a really bad idea. It would have been far better if the city or the county (because as is noted in Dana’s post, the land is now owned by Los Angeles County) had simply figured out the value of the land and just paid the Bruce family what it’s worth. And, according to the historical record, when eminent domain was used to take the land from the Bruce family in 1924, the family was paid the fair market value for that land. So there’s an argument to be made that all the Bruce family is really owed is some compensation for the indignity the family suffered.

    In any case, what happens now is the Bruce family is going to be deeded back the land — not their original land, from what I understand, which is being used for other purposes, but some similar County-owned lots close by. The county and state have to figure out what the value of the property truly is as well as what the Bruce family tax bit ought to be, based on the theory that the current property tax rate would have been locked in 43 years ago by Prop 13 and would have only risen marginally since then. But we looking at the family being given land worth something like $60 million, so they are likely to be socked with an annual property tax of at least $500,000 or thereabout (again, depending upon what they determine the value of the land would have been back in 1978).

    So the Bruce family has some interesting options. I think the smart thing for them to do is just sell the damn things for whatever they can get. But a big part of this initiative was the idea that black families have long been deprived of the ability to build up generational wealth, so immediately selling the land would look quite cynical. They county lifeguard headquarters is located on one of the lots, and the family has the option of becoming the landlord and simply leasing the land back to the county. Or, if they want to give a huge eff-you to Manhattan Beach they could simply kick the lifeguards out and develop the land into something that Manhattan Beach definitely won’t want. I like the idea of putting a huge parking garage there, but nobody has asked me as of yet.

    So that’s a bit more than anyone wanted to know, but it’s been quite an interesting debate to follow and it is nowhere near being over just yet.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  18. It’s nothing less than obscene to equate Covid mandates with anything to do with the Holocaust and imagery associated with it.

    Given that the Holocaust refers to the some 6 million murdered Jews and that – as far as I know – dead Jews were no longer required to wear the yellow stars, I’m not sure that the imagery is quite so obscene. The yellow star was required to be worn by living Jews, as they were quarantined into ghettos, refused the right to travel, refused entry to shops, refused services, demonized and scapegoated as degenerate, evil, sub-human, filthy disease-spreading vermin. Once it became established that Jews deserved the treatment they were receiving, it became not only thinkable but acceptable, even desirable, to exterminate them. Any of that sound familiar?

    Jerryskids (999ce8)

  19. Trumpcake logic: Hitler treated Jews like plague carriers ergo we are treating plague carriers like Jews. And you’ll never make them smart enough to understand the fallacy.

    But you know what? That whiny guilt trip only works on people who care. “I’m not your mommy, Trumpcake! If that’s the way you want it, that’s the way you’ll get it. Get the vaccine or get in the boxcar!”

    nk (1d9030)

  20. nk (1d9030) — 10/2/2021 @ 5:04 am

    This comment gives me the “Boxcar Willies.”

    felipe (484255)

  21. It’s been a real train-wreck, felipe.

    nk (1d9030)

  22. $70 a pill.

    The anti-Covid pill kit in India is $2.50

    Obudman (86020d) — 10/1/2021 @ 8:29 pm

    A lot more to be made on PreP-style COVID pills (which cost about $1900 a month for those who do take it) than off-patent medications, plus the general cost of the US healthcare system. That’s why Pfizer’s been trying to get a similar pill done since the spring.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  23. DeSantis has nothing to brag about when it comes to his performance with Covid. His state is 9th worst in deaths per million and 3rd worst in cases per million. Had he handled the pandemic like Jay Inslee, 33,000 Floridian lives would not have been cut short.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  24. Trashelle Odom, given her home state, might be the first female test question subject in the Black or Mormon game, joining such greats as NFLers Rulon Jones and Taysom Hill.

    urbanleftbehind (d1db56)

  25. “scapegoated as degenerate, evil, sub-human, filthy disease-spreading vermin”

    But most understand that this was an unfair scapegoating….that Jews were not degenerate, evil, or sub-human….that this was propaganda launched by an evil cabal of nazis. With Covid….which side is creating misleading propaganda? Is the vaccine effective….is it reducing the number of infections and is it reducing the number of infected that must seek hospital care? Is the number of adverse vaccine reactions exceedingly small compared to the number of unvaccinated getting infected and getting seriously sick and even dying? Hasn’t the vaccine reduced the spread of Covid and thus helped protect others with compromised immune systems?

    The anti-vaxxers seem to be on the wrong side of the data…and history. I get that mandates could go too far…..and we should be careful with social stigma…..but analogies can also go too far. Vaccinations are free, safe, and imperfectly effective. People are letting ideology and tribal prejudices obscure this. How many grieving families do you think would want a do-over?

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  26. @23 You actually don’t know that and it’s really myopic to compare stats like that. There are nuances in each state/locality/population that plays a larger role as to how the numbers ends up.

    For one, we know covid is a killer for the elderly, regardless of vaccination status. Guess which state retirees go to?

    whembly (7e0293)

  27. Trashelle is a real name? Whatever. No tears for Trump mega-donors. Lie down with dogs, feel Lewandowski’s wet nose on your nether regions.

    nk (1d9030)

  28. The Indian “pill kit” only happened in one state* and did not contribute to the decline in cases and deaths.

    * Goa, representing 0.13% of the country’s population.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  29. Vaccines used to grant immunity. What’s changed?

    Claiming those without disease are the same as those with disease. Where have we seen that before?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  30. You actually don’t know that and it’s really myopic to compare stats like that. There are nuances in each state/locality/population that plays a larger role as to how the numbers ends up.

    I hear that excuse all the time among the Trump sect. Maine has more old people than Florida, and they’re 47th in deaths per million. It’s a fact about where Florida is and it’s a fact that this all happened on DeSantis’ watch.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  31. From Paul’s link at 28:

    “While the world is on a vaccine frenzy, the Indian government is distributing a home Covid Kit with Zinc, Doxycycline, and Ivermectin. The cost: $2.65 per person.”

    Good grief! That’s not a Covid kit. That’s a rosacea kit. (For real.) Okay, India is India, but where are you from, Obudman?

    nk (1d9030)

  32. Trashelle Odom (pronounced “TRU-shel) with her husband and Donald Trump.

    Rip Murdock (36e2c3)

  33. Vaccines used to grant immunity. What’s changed?
    ………
    NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/2/2021 @ 7:14 am

    Some Vaccines Last a Lifetime. Here’s Why Covid-19 Shots Don’t.

    Rip Murdock (36e2c3)

  34. @25, AJ very well said.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  35. COVID vaccine immunity is waning — how much does that matter?
    ……….
    “Things wane,” says Nicole Doria-Rose, an immunologist at the US National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in Bethesda, Maryland. But not all things wane equally.

    ‘Neutralizing’ antibodies that can intercept viruses before they infiltrate cells might not have much staying power. Levels of these molecules typically shoot up after vaccination, then quickly taper off months later. “That’s how vaccines work,” Doria-Rose says.

    But cellular immune responses are longer lasting — and as Jennifer Gommerman, an immunologist at the University of Toronto in Canada, explains: “Cellular immunity is what’s going to protect you from disease.” Memory B cells, which can rapidly deploy more antibodies in the event of re-exposure to the virus, tend to stick around, and so do T cells, which can attack already-infected cells. Both provide an added measure of protection should SARS-CoV-2 sneak past the body’s first line of defence.

    In one of the only long-term studies to consider these three planks of the immune system simultaneously — antibodies, B cells and T cells — researchers found that vaccination spurred durable cellular immunity. Memory B cells continued to grow in numbers for at least six months, and got better at fighting the virus over time. T-cell counts remained relatively stable, dipping only slightly over the duration of the study period.
    ……….
    Should that immune memory give durable protection against severe disease?

    For the most part, it should. But, says Theodora Hatziioannou, a virologist at the Rockefeller University in New York City, “if protection from disease relies at any level on circulating neutralizing antibodies” — and those molecules are clearly on the decline — “then, yes, the longer out you are from natural infection or from vaccination the worse you will be”.

    Real-world data from diagnostic-testing records and hospital databases suggest that this might be the case. In Israel, for example, elderly people who got their shots at the beginning of the year seemed to have almost double the risk of severe illness during a July outbreak compared with similar individuals who were immunized more recently. As researchers reported this week, older individuals given a third dose of vaccine were less likely to become infected and much less likely to develop severe disease than those who had not received the boosters.
    ………
    Preliminary data from the United Kingdom and Qatar would seem to confirm the Israeli experience.…….
    ……..
    ……..Although the results are preliminary, the vaccine’s ability to ward off hospitalization and death seems to drop off. “The (Qatari) data now forced a change in thinking,” says Abu-Raddad. (A comparable study from the United States has so far reported data only on waning protection against infection, not severe disease10.)

    Still, globally, there is as yet no indication that the rates of severe illness among the vaccinated are spiking in any appreciable way. “The vaccines are really designed to prevent disease,” says Julie McElrath, an infectious-disease specialist at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle, Washington. “That is still holding up.”
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (36e2c3)

  36. Lewandowski’s getting up into Prince/Jeter/Costner territory.

    urbanleftbehind (d1db56)

  37. https://althouse.blogspot.com/2021/09/claims-that-conservatives-are-higher-in.html

    “People with left-wing economic political views had higher rates of anxiety disorder symptoms/People with liberal economic views tend to be higher in neuroticism and lower in conscientiousness than their conservative counterparts/The relationship between threat sensitivity and political ideology may be more complex than previously thought.”

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  38. “ The U.S. already has a $1.2 billion contract with Merck at $700 per 10-pill course. That’s 1.7 million courses.

    U.S. holds options up to $3.7 billion.”

    https://twitter.com/kerpen/status/1443926073473908738?s=21

    $70 a pill.

    The anti-Covid pill kit in India is $2.50

    Obudman (86020d) — 10/1/2021 @ 8:29 pm

    I’m sure Phillip Kerpen is not supporting this:

    POLITICO-Harvard poll: Drug price negotiation is Americans’ top priority in spending bills
    ……….
    Asked to chose among 20 policy priorities, 39 percent of respondents picked direct government price negotiations with drug manufacturers first. That was followed in order of preference by increased federal spending to prepare for pandemics, more resources for long-term and home-based care and expanding Medicare to include dental, vision and hearing care. All of the proposals are included in the sweeping $3.5 trillion social spending package, but have been hotly contested as the Democratic caucus splits over ways to lower the overall price tag and garner enough votes.

    Only 23 percent of poll respondents rank rebuilding roads, bridges and airports “extremely important,” and just 15 percent said high-speed internet in rural communities was vital, despite those issues being cornerstones of Biden’s agenda and key provisions in the $500 billion infrastructure package.
    ………
    The health priorities also cut across party lines, with Democrats and Republicans alike ranking drug price negotiation high.

    A House-leadership drug pricing plan was projected to save as much as $700 billion over a decade by allowing the government to directly negotiate prices on some of the highest-priced drugs in Medicare. But lawmakers are now discussing narrowing the list of drugs covered by the plan and dropping language that would have made the negotiated prices apply to private insurance.
    ……….
    Poll cross tabs.

    Socialist governments, like those in Europe and Asia, impose government mandated price controls and force Americans to shoulder the research and development costs. They should pay the same prices as the United States.

    Rip Murdock (36e2c3)

  39. “People with left-wing economic political views had higher rates of anxiety disorder symptoms…”

    Come on, no one is more stressed out than you Rob! I think your anxiety level is epic.

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  40. Mail delivery slowdown: USPS to slow delivery starting October 1
    ………
    Starting on October 1, the postal service’s current three-day delivery standard for first-class mail — letters, bills, tax documents and the like — will drop to delivery anywhere within the U.S. within five days. In other words, Americans should now expect that letters and other mail could take up to five days to reach their destinations, and vice versa.

    The USPS will continue to have a two-day delivery standard for single-piece first-class mail traveling within a local area, a USPS spokeswoman said, adding that the postal service has improved its delivery standards in 2021.
    ……….
    It’s possible that people who are paying their bills by mail and not prepared for the change could incur late fees, for instance, if their checks don’t arrive on time. Others may face longer delivery times for important documents such as tax forms or passports. The change could further undermine customers’ faith in the U.S. Postal Service, which took a hit in 2020 when delivery delays snarled everything from prescription medication to election ballots, experts say.
    ………
    But the Postal Regulatory Commission (PRC), the federal regulator that oversees the USPS, earlier this year questioned if the postal service’s plan to slow delivery standards would save money.
    ……..
    Among the regions that will feel the greatest impact are Western states like California and Nevada, as well as Florida, according to a Washington Post analysis of the USPS delivery changes earlier this year. Other pockets across the nation will also suffer from slower delivery times…….
    ……..
    (The changes) might help the USPS’ bottom line, but consumers should be aware that their mail could take longer to reach their destinations — and that the change is permanent, unless Congress gets involved or attorneys general sue the USPS, experts said.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (36e2c3)

  41. NJRob (eb56c3) — 10/2/2021 @ 7:58 am:

    To sum up, people on the left care too much about society’s losers (poor and marginalized groups and the environment) while conservatives don’t. This study is a perfect example of this.

    Rip Murdock (36e2c3)

  42. Here’s a discussion about vacc immunity vs natural immunity. Thanks, John.

    felipe (484255)

  43. Vaccines used to grant immunity. What’s changed?

    Nothing, except that this misconception has been made more evidently a misconception.

    Some vaccines are so effective that it seems like immunity (it is not, you can still be infected but the disease is quickly slapped down by the antibodies the vaccine created). Others vaccines are less effective, mainly due to the variation and mutation of the virus. In a pandemic, where there is a constant reservoir of disease carriers, even a 95% effectiveness can be overcome by repeated exposure.

    The idea then is to reduce to zero the reservoir of disease carriers and this is best done by immunizing everyone. You could, of course, exempt those who have had the disease, but people lie.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  44. Socialist governments, like those in Europe and Asia, impose government mandated price controls and force Americans to shoulder the research and development costs. They should pay the same prices as the United States.

    It should be noted that if Medicare and Medicaid negotiated down the price they pay for drugs, the price everyone else pays would have to go up. Much like the uninsured pay for a hospital procedure that is far cheaper to insurance companies.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  45. (The changes) might help the USPS’ bottom line, but consumers should be aware that their mail could take longer to reach their destinations — and that the change is permanent, unless Congress gets involved or attorneys general sue the USPS, experts said.

    Did you know that in most new developments the Post Office is insisting on community mailbox “clusters”, where several hundred mailboxes are colocated like they would be in an apartment complex. This reduces the number of mail carriers they USPS needs in those communities.

    They generally aren’t doing this in existing communities because they don’t want the torches and pitchfork assemblies that would result. So, they slow the mail instead.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  46. Which states have the highest death rates from COVID, now?

    You can find the answer here.

    I am sure that Trumpistas will assert that the fact that 9 of the top 10 (all but Georgia) voted for Trump is pure coincidence (or a plot by socialists or “neoconservatives).

    And they will assert that Vermont’s Republican governor, Phil Scott, deserves no credit for the consistent low numbers in the Green Mountain state.

    That Trumpista reluctance to face facts is sad, because following Trump, rather than, for example, Scott, is bad for your health.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  47. Friends, it is interesting to read about molnupiravir. It is getting lauded in the media right now.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/10/01/pill-to-treat-covid/?no_nav=true

    But two things:

    1. Folks opposed to the vaccine, put approving of the antiviral pill are in a quandry: if the vaccine was rushed into production, not tested enough to suit them, and may have side effects…why is the antiviral any different?

    2. If you dig down into the mode of action of molnupiravir

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molnupiravir

    More detailed:

    https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/drug-development/emerging-antiviral-takes-aim-COVID-19/98/web/2020/05

    and

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41594-021-00651-0

    You will find it causes errors (and “error catastrophe”) in the RNA genome of the virus (I do not call these mutations, since they are at the RNA level—this applies to RNA viruses, like SARS-CoV2, but folks usually see mutations applying to DNA). I have yet to see data showing that mRNA made by the cells of patients are not also impacted by the drug, and what that impact might be.

    https://pesquisa.bvsalud.org/global-literature-on-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov/resource/pt/covidwho-1250916

    And honestly, this worries me.

    https://www.science.org/content/article/emails-offer-look-whistleblower-charges-cronyism-behind-potential-covid-19-drug

    So I am delighted that folks are interested in antivirals. But I hope that people will be fair in their criticisms, and cautious. A LOT of people have had the vaccines, thus far. I wonder what the side affects of molnupiravir will be on a similar scale?

    Just to reiterate: yes, we need to have virologists look into more general antivirals (specific to the RNA-directed RNA polymerase that RNA viruses need to replicate their genomes). But I think that the vaccines are pretty good. “Waiting for the pill” will not help the vulnerable.

    But we all know how the press is….

    Simon Jester (24a6a2)

  48. Dear Dana: I wrote a post with some links on the antiviral drug…it may have been caught in the filter. Apologies.

    Simon Jester (24a6a2)

  49. They’ll eff up cluster mailboxes like they mess up the drive_up mailboxes, my 2 closest towns installed them on passenger side sidewalks. Say what you will about the USPS being an old people thing, but aren’t old people still able to drive very likely to be without partner or just alone?

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  50. They generally aren’t doing this in existing communities because they don’t want the torches and pitchfork assemblies that would result. So, they slow the mail instead.

    I live in a giant condo cluster of almost 300 units spread over about 70 buildings. Each building has it’s own mail box with four or sometime six boxes, one for each unit. The local postal carriers have been on us for years to consolidate and build a central mail depository — or maybe two or three of them if we don’t have the space for one — which they claim will (1) allow all of us to have larger mailboxes, (2) will prevent porch pirates from doing their business, and oh yeah, by the way (3) make it a hell of a lot easier for them to deliver. The problem is we really don’t have the space to create these mail repositories, so they made a real ham-handed attempt to force us into compliance at which point we contacted our Congresswoman (back in the Jane Harman days) whose office called the local post master who shut down their nonsense.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  51. Approved it, Simon Jester.

    Dana (174549)

  52. Folks opposed to the vaccine, put approving of the antiviral pill are in a quandry: if the vaccine was rushed into production, not tested enough to suit them, and may have side effects…why is the antiviral any different?

    Given that the antiviral pill is taken within 5 days *after* symptoms appear, perhaps that will put enough of a scare in those with symptoms to take it. At least it may prevent the need for hospitalization and free up resources for other critical needs. But if people are so deadset against the vaccine despite its success, I don’t see that they would approve of taking a pill (that has undergone less testing). Unfortunately, even after being given full approval, the fact remains that there is a massive lack of trust in Dr. Fauci, and he called the results from Merck’s testing “very good news,” so… Further, I think it will depend on how politicized the antiviral pill becomes. I think had the vaccines not been so politicized and weaponized (so to speak), and had we not had Trump and his conspiracy nuttiness in our midst for four years, had we not so many jump on the crazy train, we would have far more vaccinated Americans. I’d like to think that things have settled down, and that common sense has returned, but I don’t think it has. Thus, this pill is going to be viewed as a potential political weapon, and as a threat to some people’s way of life and very belief system. The science of it all will be brushed off and superfluous.

    Dana (174549)

  53. A TX court just ruled that Alex Jones is financially liable for his lies about the Sandy Hook massacre. Good. I wonder how much coin he made on his talk shows, dishonestly exploiting murdered children for ratings.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  54. Here’s my problem with the whole mandates.

    Covid19 is dangerous to several groups, mainly the elderly and those with co-morbidity (ie, obesity, immunocompromised, etc).

    We absolutely know who’s in the risk group by now. Treatments and therapies ought to continually be focused on those risk groups.

    But, arguments for vaccine mandates and the likes is really a dangerous conversation because it’s often framed that its the responsible thing to do to protect others.

    There is no ethical reason for taking a treatment for somebody else. It’s an unethical, immoral, and really a criminal construct. You can only prescribe a medication for someone who can benefit from it, and it’s up to them whether they take it or not.

    Both my boys had the vaccines, but I had to pucker up because they faced higher risks to potential severe myocarditis than being severely sick from covid.

    I’m concerned because I don’t think the public and officials are well informed on the tradeoffs. Have we really done enough deliberations in assessing these tradeoffs?

    I honestly don’t think so.

    whembly (7e0293)

  55. @30

    You actually don’t know that and it’s really myopic to compare stats like that. There are nuances in each state/locality/population that plays a larger role as to how the numbers ends up.

    I hear that excuse all the time among the Trump sect.

    Buddy, it’s basic statistics.

    What do they say about statistics?

    There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
    -Mark Twain

    Maine has more old people than Florida, and they’re 47th in deaths per million. It’s a fact about where Florida is and it’s a fact that this all happened on DeSantis’ watch.

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 10/2/2021 @ 7:23 am

    And still misses my point. You simply cannot compare statistic like that and affirm that policies from one state works better or worst than the other. It’s literally cherry picking, or at worst confirmation bias.

    These things are super complex and there are myriad of reasons why the numbers are the way they are.

    Florida was among the few states that prioritized the elderly and immunocompromised early in the pandemic, and yet DeSantis never got credit for that for purely partisan reasoning.

    Did you catch this political Ad?
    https://twitter.com/RemoveRon/status/1443352258662576134?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1443352258662576134%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.foxnews.com%2Fmedia%2Fanti-desantis-ad-mocked-as-unintentionally-helpful

    Was this a pro-DeSantis or anti-DeSantis ad?

    Interestingly, this ad is sort of a new political Rorschach Test.

    whembly (7e0293)

  56. “Since the pandemic began, about 1 in 434 rural Americans have died from Covid, compared with roughly 1 in 513 urban Americans”

    Given the fast and loose way interpretations of dying ‘with Covid’ and ‘of Covid’, the actual explanation is most likely ‘remote hospitals couldn’t handle the initial shutdown and staff firings of the original Sinovirus panic, then all the ‘elective’ surgeries the country retirees postponed eventually killed them.

    “Good grief! That’s not a Covid kit. That’s a rosacea kit. (For real.)”

    Works just as well for Covid as the Sinovax(INGREDIENTS: Saline, state propaganda) and has fewer unpredictable side effects and contraindications than whatever smacked-up experimental drug you’re pushing.

    “Trumpcake logic: Hitler treated Jews like plague carriers ergo we are treating plague carriers like Jews. And you’ll never make them smart enough to understand the fallacy.

    But you know what? That whiny guilt trip only works on people who care. “I’m not your mommy, Trumpcake! If that’s the way you want it, that’s the way you’ll get it. Get the vaccine or get in the boxcar!””

    The actual bubonic plague was in fact the most helpfully impactful event for standards of living, social, and technological development in Europe, and your ignorant elitist attitude expresses exactly why. Whether by the hand of God, Nature, or Man, may we see you and your genocidal ilk dead sooner rather than later.

    Boxcard Child (2cd1d8)

  57. Both my boys had the vaccines, but I had to pucker up because they faced higher risks to potential severe myocarditis than being severely sick from covid.

    I’m concerned because I don’t think the public and officials are well informed on the tradeoffs. Have we really done enough deliberations in assessing these tradeoffs?

    thoughtful points, Whembly.

    I got the vaccine because the risks were probably very low, and the reward seemed very high. For me. But the risks included the unknown, since it’s a new medical product. Getting back to living more life was great. I am in and out of a jail every few days at most. It worked out.

    But there’s a very powerful dogma that any reference to risk with the vaccine is insane. I think that fury convinced many (Already distrustful of our government and media) to take a stand against the vaccine. And the cycle just heats up from there. Very few on the left are trying to patiently and lovingly change minds. They are having fun posting funny memes about every dead Trump fan who refused to get vaccinated.

    Those of us who seriously had a problem with Trump need to acknowledge the trends that made him viable.

    Dustin (7d34b7)

  58. https://spectatorworld.com/topic/harvard-went-woke-ruth-wisse/

    Thanking me for the course at the end of the semester, my student surprised me by singling out Saul Bellow’s Mr Sammler’s Planet, a demanding indictment of the counterculture and permissiveness of the 1960s. It was not a young person’s book, but it had had its effect. ‘When I arrived here,’ the student said, ‘I was the you-go girl! I was going to change everything. I was going to change the world. Well, this book showed me that I could also change it for the worse.’ She articulated better than I had done what a course on modern Jewish fiction could hope to transmit.

    I had the opposite experience with a Muslim student from Pakistan who refused to deal with Shmuel Yosef Agnon’s Hebrew novella, In the Heart of the Seas, because he deemed it racist. A student could only find this ‘racist’ if he was raised to disbelieve in the Bible’s formation of the Jewish people and the natural right of the Jews to their homeland. The Arab and Soviet coalition had rammed through the villainous resolution equating Zionism with racism at the United Nations; this highly intelligent young man took that equation as much on faith as Agnon’s travelers believed in their return to Zion.

    The student had until then been doing very well. It being too late to withdraw from the course, he demanded to complete it without having to deal with this book. This was technically possible since assignments and exams left him enough to choose from without it. I discussed it with a teaching assistant, and we decided to accede to his request. We had by then experienced enough of Harvard’s swelling bureaucracy to know what it would cost in time and energy if we were to refuse his petition.

    I have always regretted taking the easy way out. It was obvious that Agnon’s novella had as much to teach this student as Mr Sammler’s Planet had the other. He might have realized that it was in many ways closer to his own cultural tradition than other books in the course. If there was any truth to the claim that college exposed students to diversity or offered any hope of undoing anti-Jewish prejudice, here was an opportunity. Instead, after an unsuccessful attempt at persuading him to deal with the book, I allowed a member of Harvard’s ‘educated elite’ to have his prejudices confirmed.

    NJRob (0bf784)

  59. @48:

    Thank you Simon. A drug that is only marginally effective AND causes essentially random mutations in the intruding virus and may do the same to naturally-occurring mRNA doesn’t seem like it should be used except in extremis.

    Yes, most mutations destroy the virus, or make the RNA message unusable, but that one case where it doesn’t … oh boy.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  60. One bowl of chicken soup, 975 mgs of regular aspirin, 50 grams of grape brandy, and a two-hour nap, every four to six hours as long as symptoms persist.

    nk (1d9030)

  61. @58

    Those of us who seriously had a problem with Trump need to acknowledge the trends that made him viable.

    Dustin (7d34b7) — 10/2/2021 @ 2:20 pm

    Absolutely.

    I have problems with Trump myself. I don’t really begrudge those who didn’t vote for him in 2020… I get it.

    I just hope that we now have a clearer picture with the direction of this country with a Democrat in office, versus a Republican in office.

    To me, it difference couldn’t be clearer.

    That’s not an endorsement of Trump, or any other hypothetical Republican. It’s more of an indictment against Democrats, and I hope in 2022 and 2024 Republican/conservative voters keep that in mind.

    I mean, just look at what they’re trying to pass via reconciliation. It’s a monstrosity and the only reason why it hasn’t passed is because of sheer incompetence or obstinance.

    Politics aside, the policies regarding covid need to be de-politicized fast. I’m not sure how we get there, but it starts with honest conversations on what we know today and having these “trade off” discussions over these policies.

    whembly (7e0293)

  62. Zimbabwe, hold my beer. Venezuela subtracts six zeros from currency

    This is the second “revision” in 3 years — last time they cut 5 zeros. Back in Chavez’ day they cut 3 zeros. What took one bolivar to buy when Chavez took power would now take 100,000,000,000,000, or 100 quadrillion bolivars. They stopped claiming it was about taming inflation, which is running at about 1700% annually, but simply because banking systems had a problem with all the digits.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  63. One bowl of chicken soup, 975 mgs of regular aspirin, 50 grams of grape brandy, and a two-hour nap, every four to six hours as long as symptoms persist.

    Why do I have to keep taking it every 4 to 6 hours?! If it was effective, I’d be immune after the first one!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  64. Why do I have to keep taking it every 4 to 6 hours?! If it was effective, I’d be immune after the first one!

    It can’t hurt.

    nk (1d9030)

  65. Kevin M, it’s even worse than I thought. Some of the ribose based elements can tautomerize to deoxribose based elements in the nucleotide pool. So you might actually get mutations in the DNA proper. I *really* want to see the experiments.

    Simon Jester (24a6a2)

  66. Those of us who seriously had a problem with Trump need to acknowledge the trends that made him viable.

    Still make him viable. We may all disapprove of the Alaskan clowns with their yellow stars and gay-bashing, but there’s a slope that lead from civil rights for gays to “my pronouns” and they may just be on a different part of it. Trump’s stand in the social wars often isn’t pretty, but there are a lot of people who think that way.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  67. Simon, I don’t have the biochemistry (my chemistry ended with Pchem). I look at this as a statistics problem — but getting essendially random DNA segments does not sound like a good thing.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  68. It might indeed be a numbers game, Kevin M. Eeek.

    Also eeek to Pchem. I tip my hat.

    Simon Jester (24a6a2)

  69. The only parts I fully understood in you two’s conservation were “Simon” and “Kevin”. Are you saying that this is/may be a drug of desperation when the alternative is almost certain death?

    nk (1d9030)

  70. A study published Thursday in a medical journal estimated a federal database failed to count more than 50% of deaths attributable to police violence over nearly 40 years.
    The study’s authors, who used statistical modeling to extrapolate the number of uncounted deaths, concluded that police have been involved in more than 30,000 deaths between 1980 and 2018.
    The researchers, from the University of Washington’s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation, estimated roughly 56% — or 17,100 — of the deaths were not recorded in the National Vital Statistics System, a federal database kept by the National Center for Health Statistics, a division within the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The study compared deaths reported to that system with deaths reported in three non-governmental databases that were compiled by looking at news reports and other public records.

    According to the researchers’ estimates, Black people were killed at a rate 3.5 times higher than non-Hispanic White people, and Hispanic people of any race were killed at a rate 1.8 times higher than non-Hispanic White people. The findings are similar to another study’s, from 2019, which also found that police kill Black people at disproportionate rates.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/30/us/study-police-deaths-undercount/index.html

    Davethulhu (017f04)

  71. Davethulhu (017f04) — 10/2/2021 @ 4:54 pm

    “statistical modeling to extrapolate”
    “concluded”
    “estimates”
    (Your excerpt leaves out “inference” which is also in the article I read.)

    What these guys did was not 29 years of “research”. It was a comparison of a couple of years of one whatsis with other watchamacallits and then “inferring back” (their term) to 1980 to reach their attention-grabber.

    Not to mention that they published in The Lancet.

    nk (1d9030)

  72. George Will explains why Australia wants nuclear subs:

    China’s clumsy bullying has transformed Australian public opinion and propelled Australia into a long-term alignment against China. When Australia called for an investigation of the origins of covid-19, China’s juvenile, state-controlled media denounced Australia as “a giant kangaroo that serves as a dog of the U.S.” and “chewing gum stuck on the sole of China’s shoes.” Beijing also fired a blunderbuss of severe impediments to Australian exporters, who powered their nation’s pre-pandemic run of 29 years without a recession. And Beijing presented Canberra with an insulting 14-point ultimatum, the distilled essence of which was: Shut up, or else. AUKUS is Australia’s riposte.

    Americans are beginning to respond to “Emperor” Xi’s bullying too, including, Will points out, about 40 percent of House Democrats.

    To punish Australia, China banned Australian coal imports, and is now suffering serious power shortages.

    (It’s my impression that you can’t actually substitute kangaroos for dogs, but I am no expert on marsupials.

    Me? I am doing what little I can, avoiding Chinese products where possible, and buying more Australian wine and, in season, oranges, than I had before. And I will be looking for other Australian products to buy.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  73. Definitely an excuse to eat more lamb outside of the Easter season. They’d been pushing corn beef briskets as part of Halfway to St. Patty’s Day at local Jewel-Osco super markets.

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  74. Radical leftist Joe Biden demands socialist AOC bill must pass in order to support any other spending bill.

    Congrats guys on getting what you voted for.
    But no mean tweets.

    NJRob (7d7da4)

  75. Where’d you see that, NJRob?

    nk (1d9030)

  76. The only parts I fully understood in you two’s conservation were “Simon” and “Kevin”. Are you saying that this is/may be a drug of desperation when the alternative is almost certain death?

    The way the drug works is it break the virus. Pretty much at random. The virus is an RNA construct, which in its unbroken form gets human cells to make more virus. So, something that instructs cells is mangled by the drug. Most of the time this is a win. But not always. Also, it is possible that the drug breaks other RNA sequences that the body uses to instruct cells in the massively complicated organism that is the human body.

    This poses a risk.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  77. Radical leftist Joe Biden demands socialist AOC bill must pass in order to support any other spending bill.

    Oh, I do accept congrats. Just as all the Democrats congratulated the House Freedom Caucus from preventing Speaker Ryan from neutering Obamacare.

    They will now get nothing. If they try to force the issue they will lose the Senate earlier than expected.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  78. Not to mention that they published in The Lancet.

    The Lancet is much better now, having learned from all those retractions in the past.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  79. And I will be looking for other Australian products to buy.

    Grass-fed beef. https://www.trueaussiebeefandlamb.com/where-to-buy/

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  80. This claim would be even more hilarious:

    Former President Donald Trump lauded himself for the way he served religious communities in the U.S. during his time in office.

    “Nobody has done more for Christianity or for evangelicals—or for religion itself—than I have, [doing] so many different things,” he said during a phone interview with Devin Scillian on the show Flashpoint.

    If it weren’t for the fact that some Trumpistas will believe it. Some readers will wonder whether Trump also mentioned his great humility. The article doesn’t say.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  81. Kevin – Thanks for the tip on Australian beef and lamb.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  82. “And I will be looking for other Australian products to buy.”

    https://twitter.com/vegemite

    A local delicacy, or so I hear.

    Davethulhu (017f04)

  83. Meanwhile, China is playing chicken with Taiwan in the air:


    China sends 77 warplanes into Taiwan defense zone over two days, Taipei says

    While I really don’t expect China to invade Taiwan itself, I do wonder what is holding up some of its outlying possessions, particularly Kinmen Island (aka Quemoy), which is pretty much a breakwater, less than 5 miles from the Chinese mainland city of Xiamen.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  84. “Nobody has done more for Christianity or for evangelicals—or for religion itself—than I have…”

    Trump has done more for Christians that Jesus Christ.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  85. And still misses my point. You simply cannot compare statistic like that and affirm that policies from one state works better or worst than the other. It’s literally cherry picking, or at worst confirmation bias.

    A state’s performance is what it is, whembley. Every governor had every opportunity to enact social distancing and vaccination measures. Excusing Florida because they more old people than other states is just that, an excuse.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  86. Trump is suing to get his Twitter handle back. In other words, the Former Guy wants the privilege of squatting on a site that he doesn’t own, despite Twitter owning its platform and despite their right to publish or not publish the content it pleases.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  87. Where have I see this name “Nic” before? It seems vaguely familiar.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  88. https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/01/first-workers-now-blacks-democrats-betrayals-for-big-business-are-piling-up-but-can-republicans-seize-it/
    No way they can figure out how to seize the opportunity, republicans are stupid, or in on the sting.

    mg (8cbc69)

  89. Trump is suing to get his Twitter handle back.

    The suit was filed in July.

    In July, Trump sued Twitter, Facebook and Google, as well as their chief executives, alleging that they unlawfully silenced conservative viewpoints on their platforms and violated his First Amendment rights by suspending his accounts. Legal experts and business associations predicted the lawsuits had little chance of succeeding in court, given that the First Amendment to the Constitution protects against censorship by the government, not by private companies.

    This is for preliminary relief once all the parties had been served. “Donnie want Twitter now! Don’t want wait till trial! Waaah! Mommy!”

    nk (1d9030)

  90. “Nobody has done more for Christianity or for evangelicals—or for religion itself—than I have…”

    For Diet Coke, too.

    nk (1d9030)

  91. As Victoria Premier Daniel Andrews prepares to institute a vaccine mandate for all authorized workers, another Australian state is refusing to enforce the state’s vaccine passport mandate.

    “Earlier this week, the police commissioner of New South Wales refused to enforce the state’s vaccine passport mandate, stating that officers will not check anyone’s vaccination status in public venues. The move appears to go against efforts by the government to pass a mandate that would ban all unvaccinated people from gaining entry to restaurants and other public spaces until at least early December.”

    There are still a few people who understand freedom.

    Obudman (86020d)

  92. 53 Dana (174549) — 10/2/2021 @ 11:03 am

    Given that the antiviral pill is taken within 5 days *after* symptoms appear, perhaps that will put enough of a scare in those with symptoms to take it.

    There is less hope of avoiding both.

    At least it may prevent the need for hospitalization and free up resources for other critical needs. But if people are so deadset against the vaccine despite its success, I don’t see that they would approve of taking a pill (that has undergone less testing).

    It’s not how much testing something has, but how much opposition.

    In 2020 the FDA didn’t help matters by saying they needed to be very, very careful about authorizing it and (in effect) that they weren’t going to bullied by Donald Trump. The fact that they took so much time, or talked about needing more time and testing to approve it, didn’t raise confidence (when they finally did it) it lowered it compared to what would have happened had they just authorized it at the first opportunity.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  93. … Further, I think it will depend on how politicized the antiviral pill becomes.

    The problem is that it might be treated as better at preventing hospitalizations than the neutralizing antibodies, which, of course, it isn’t. It’s only 50% successful! Neutralizing monoclonal antibodies has a 70& reduction rate in preventing hospitalization. The Biden Administration seems to be limiting distribution of the antibodies – West Virginia got less than it wanted. I don;t know whether that;s the best they can do at the moment, and/or whether they are ordering more, or whether they want to make states suffer where less than the average number of people got vaccinated by giving them only what they “deserve” And, of all things, are they trying to save money???

    The only advantage the pill has over the neutralizing antibodies is easier distribution (but it has been manufactured in limited quantities, and besides that is best used in conjunction with rapid Covid tests, which are expensive in the United States and have delayed full approval because the FDA insists on treating it like a medical test – instead they say President Bden should sign something declaring it a public health measure.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/opinion/rapid-tests-covid.html

    The problem is that rapid-test makers who want to sell in the United States need to comply with the Food and Drug Administration’s medical device authorization process, which requires rapid tests to meet the same standards as laboratory-based medical diagnostic tools. (The agency has given emergency use authorization to some tests.)…Using executive action, President Biden should redefine rapid Covid-19 tests as public health tools rather than medical devices. The president has already declared these tests a public health priority, and an executive action making rapid tests official public health tools would be the natural next step.

    An executive action that redefines rapid tests as public health tools could enable a new pathway for federal authorities to conduct their own evaluations of which rapid tests most accurately identify infectious levels of virus. This could also allow global manufacturers with tests already approved for use in other countries to more easily enter the U.S. market, increasing supply significantly.

    While step one is breaking the logjam to scale up production and use of these tests, the White House should also treat rapid testing with the same urgency and private sector partnership approach that Operation Warp Speed pioneered for vaccines….

    …The U.S. government should provide rapid tests to every American household, business and organization for free to complement the vaccination campaign and make abiding by the vaccine mandate more feasible.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  94. It also has the advantage of cost, but that is an artificial, monopoly advantage. Merck knows ot needs to charge much less than others charge for the antibodies.

    If this is approved it could be worse for people, because it might be given instead of monoclonal antibodies or, saying it could be given earlier, once started, a person might not be eligible for the antibodies.

    All this to save money, when, after all, the last thing Washington is interested in is saving money. But Washington is capable of contradictions.

    I think had the vaccines not been so politicized and weaponized (so to speak), and had we not had Trump and his conspiracy nuttiness in our midst for four years, had we not so many jump on the crazy train, we would have far more vaccinated Americans. I’d like to think that things have settled down, and that common sense has returned, but I don’t think it has. Thus, this pill is going to be viewed as a potential political weapon, and as a threat to some people’s way of life and very belief system. The science of it all will be brushed off and superfluous.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  95. I think had the vaccines not been so politicized and weaponized (so to speak), and had we not had Trump and his conspiracy nuttiness in our midst for four years, had we not so many jump on the crazy train, we would have far more vaccinated Americans. I’d like to think that things have settled down, and that common sense has returned, but I don’t think it has. Thus, this pill is going to be viewed as a potential political weapon, and as a threat to some people’s way of life and very belief system. The science of it all will be brushed off and superfluous.

    I think vaccines have a history of people being anti-vax but that is not true for pills, esecially when given to people who are already infected.

    But a lt of what s going on has to do wwith with legalities, not science. I mean proposing that President Biden should sign an executive order redefining rapid Covid-19 tests as public health tools rather than medical devices?

    What does that have to do with science? With philosophy maybe a little, but it is really a means to an end.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  96. From the NYT article about rapid tests:

    In Germany, you can buy a rapid Covid-19 test at the grocery store for one euro (a little more than a dollar). In Britain, any household can obtain a pack of seven rapid tests every day for free. In Singapore, you can get a free rapid test from a vending machine. Families in Israel receive at-home rapid tests for their children to use before school. Rapid testing is commonplace in many parts of the world because policymakers recognized early on that the tests could blunt the pandemic by stopping chains of transmission. By letting people know they are infectious, rapid tests are useful even in areas with high vaccination rates and can allow for a safer return to in-person activity.

    But in the United States, if you’re lucky enough to find tests on a pharmacy shelf, they can cost from $7 to $50…

    This varying price, by factor of 7, is a sign of a broken market, by the way, and even the lowest price is still six times too high.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  97. @norcal@89- *waves* This school year is exhausting.

    Nic (896fdf)

  98. 94, Mad Max would be proud!

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  99. Breaking: Small scale explosion at, or rathem outside te entrance to a Kabul mosque, the Eid Gah Mosque. It killed several people.

    It was an anti-Taliban attack.

    It targeted the funeral prayer service for the mother of the Taliban’s chief spokesman, Zabiullah Mujahid, and he and several other members of the Taliban leadership were praying inside. They weren;t hurt.

    There have been a string of attacks on the Taliban in the eastern city of Jalalabad in recent weeks, attributed (by the Taliban) to the possibly defunct ISIS-K.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  100. Meanwhile, JVW might want to give this guy a call.

    https://news.yahoo.com/maga-supporters-raised-2-million-171106738.html

    urbanleftbehind (c073c9)

  101. https://www.nationalreview.com/news/key-inflation-measure-soars-to-30-year-high/

    Supply chain problems, government spending us to bankruptcy, government paying people to stay home to destroy work ethic and artificially inflate the minimum wage and you wonder why inflation is skyrocketing.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  102. despite Twitter owning its platform and despite their right to publish or not publish the content it pleases.

    When the Supreme Court sides with Trump, you will probably still be saying this. Twitter wants to be the leading form of instant communication, it needs to accept the public as it comes.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  103. Further, I think it will depend on how politicized the antiviral pill becomes.

    The SCIENCE isn’t on its side.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  104. you wonder why inflation is skyrocketing

    And it’s going up faster than they admit.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  105. Regarding the science of antivirals—

    I support such research.

    BUT folks have to apply the same concerns and judgments as any other medicine.

    I think that everyone is all messed up these days regarding relative risks, acceptable side effects, etc.

    And there is not a single that politics cannot contaminate.

    Simon Jester (1fa4e0)

  106. At least four mid-level officers have publicly revolted against military leaders. What’s going on?
    ……
    Since May, a Space Force lieutenant colonel has claimed that the military’s diversity and anti-extremism training are rooted in Marxism; a Marine lieutenant colonel became a lightning rod for openly critiquing military leadership over the Afghanistan withdrawal while in uniform; an Army lieutenant colonel has tried to resign just short of retirement because he believes that requiring troops to be vaccinated for COVID-19 is an “unlawful, unethical, immoral, and tyrannical order”; and a Navy commander has gone on Fox News to promote conspiracy theories about COVID-19 vaccines.
    …….
    …….[F]or reasons that are still unknown, the four officers who have decided it’s better to flame out than to fade away have all been the same paygrade. Three of them are lieutenant colonels and one is a Navy commander. All those ranks are the fifth officer paygrade in the military, commonly referred to as O-5s.

    Officers at that rank are above the company commander level, but not at the point where they have a star on their collar. Getting there is no small feat either, but it’s also an odd position in that field-grade officers aren’t quite “high ranking” but they have just enough rank so that people notice when they act out in public.

    Most recently, Navy Cmdr. J.H. Furman, a foreign area officer assigned to the United Nations Peacekeeping Operations office in Washington, D.C., recently appeared on Fox News personality Tucker Carlson’s show to claim that COVID-19 vaccines pose a strategic threat to the Navy.

    Furman’s argument leaned heavily on disputed figures from the U.S. government’s Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System, which allows people to report possible side effects from vaccines. ……In fact, one entry in the database claims that the side effects of a measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine included “alien abduction” along with “super strength” and “rage attacks,” according to WTHR, an NBC affiliate in Indianapolis.
    …….
    Yet Furman claimed the VAERS data shows that COVID-19 is less dangerous than the vaccines, especially since service members are among the healthiest people in the United States.

    “Combine that with the unknown long-term impacts of the vaccine from this aborted fetal cell line, either derived or manufactured gene therapy vaccine,” said Furman, who appeared to spread a debunked claim that one of the vaccine’s ingredients includes DNA from aborted fetuses.
    …….
    When Carlson asked the Navy commander if he expected to be relieved of command for appearing on his show, Furman replied “No, absolutely not.”
    …….
    ……Army Lt. Col. Paul Hague described the mandatory vaccines as “an ideologically Marxist takeover of the military and the United States government at their upper echelons” in his resignation letter, which his wife posted on Twitter on Sept. 9.

    Two other lieutenant colonels have also publicly torched their careers this year by challenging senior military leadership. Space Force Lt. Col. Matthew Lohmeier was relieved in May as commander of 11th Space Warning Squadron after making comments on a podcast about his book, in which he claims that Marxist ideology is seeping into the military. The Air Force Inspector General’s Office is currently investigating him.

    Then in August, Marine Lt. Col. Stuart Scheller lost his job as commanding officer of the Advanced Infantry Training Battalion at the School of Infantry East, Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, after demanding on social media that senior military leaders be held accountable for their mistakes that led to the chaotic Afghanistan evacuation.

    In subsequent social media posts, Scheller vowed to “bring the whole f–king system down” and to charge Marine Gen. Kenneth McKenzie Jr., the head of U.S. Central Command, with dereliction of duty.

    The unanswered question remains: Why is the Defense Department facing an epidemic of O-5s who are embracing the “YOLO” (“you only live once”) philosophy in their careers.
    …….

    Related:
    Marine officer who blasted leaders over Afghanistan withdrawal now in the brig
    …….
    “Lt. Col. Stuart Scheller Jr. is currently in pre-trial confinement in the Regional Brig for Marine Corps Installations East aboard Marine Corps Base Camp Lejeune pending an Article 32 preliminary hearing,” said Capt. Sam Stephenson, a spokesman for Training and Education Command. “The time, date, and location of the proceedings have not been determined. Lt. Col. Scheller will be afforded all due process.”

    (After publication the Marine Corps confirmed that Scheller is accused of the following offenses under the UCMJ: Article 88: Contempt toward officials, Article 90: Willfully disobeying superior commissioned officer, Article 92: Failure to obey an order, and Article 133: Conduct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman.)

    Scheller first gained notoriety on Aug. 26, when he posted a video on Facebook and Linkedin criticizing the handling of the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan. In the video, Scheller accused senior military leaders of shirking their responsibilities, and questioned some of the command decisions that were made leading up to, and during, the final moments of America’s longest war.
    ……

    US Marine who says he rescued baby at Kabul airport investigated for appearing at Trump rally
    A Marine who says he saved a baby in Kabul by lifting the infant over the walls outside Hamid Karzai International Airport is now under investigation for appearing on stage with former President Donald Trump at a recent political rally in Georgia.

    Lance Cpl. Hunter Clark was one of nearly 6,000 U.S. troops tasked with guarding the airport last month as thousands of desperate people tried to get in to escape the Taliban. On Sept. 25, Clark appeared on stage with Trump for just under a minute at a “Save America Rally” in Perry, Georgia.

    Clark quickly introduced himself as “the guy that pulled the baby over the wall,” adding that “it’s definitely probably one of the greatest things I’ve done in my entire life.”

    The Marine continued, saying “I just want to thank all the support from all y’all. It really means a lot and I’m glad to be home now.”

    Clark did not specify when he pulled a baby over the wall at Hamid Karzai International Airport. After this story was first published, Clark’s command told Task & Purpose that he was not the Marine shown in an Aug. 19 viral video hoisting an infant above the razor wire outside the airport.
    …….
    “The 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit (MEU) has initiated a command investigation regarding LCpl Hunter Clark’s attendance at the event last weekend to determine if any DoD policies were violated,” [Capt. Kelton J Cochran, a spokesman for the 24th MEU]said. “Any details pertaining to this incident are not releasable while the investigation is being conducted.”
    …….
    Cochran did not specify what policies that Clark may have violated, but the Defense Department does not allow active-duty troops to “speak before a partisan political gathering, including any gathering that promotes a partisan political party, candidate, or cause.”
    ……
    Whenever a member of the military speaks publicly, talks on a television show, or goes viral because of their service, it comes with a certain amount of scrutiny, and depending on what they say or do, it might bring with it some professional risk. This is because it’s generally assumed that when a member of the military speaks in their capacity as a service member, that they are representing the military. In other words: if the only reason you’re on television or have a microphone shoved in your face is because you start a sentence by saying “My name is Sgt. so-and-so” then people are going to assume you’re speaking on behalf of the military.
    ……

    Rip Murdock (80e6b4)

  107. Seen ion social media:

    “The border crisis is BAD.

    Husband just called (he’s in the National Guard) and said 6 out of the 9 people in his office are being called down for 120 days.

    Gov. Abbott is calling down thousands of Texas National Guard troops to help bc the Federal government won’t do anything.”

    There are conservatives who voted for this.

    Obudman (86020d)

  108. In a previous thread (The Looming Constitutional Crisis), someone with the screen name of Factory Working Orphan made a long list of charges against neoconservatives and Bush Republicans. He provided no evidence and refused to answer even simple questions.

    I intend to take a few of these charges and show that they are false, beginning with this one: The United States has, because of neocons and Bush Republicans, “a gutted manufacturing base that’s made us reliant on a foreign adversary for most of our goods”.

    In fact, in 2019, the value of US manufacturing hit an all-time high, more than 2.3 trillion dollars. (Because of COVID, 2020 will be worse, but recovery has been rapid.) That’s up almost 1 trillion from 1997.

    So why do so many people think otherwise? Because manufacturing employment, as a percentage of total unemployment, has fallen steadily since World War II, thanks to productivity gains. (There have been similar trends in farming and mining.) The trend began long before there any neoconservatives, and was established before George H. W. Bush was drilling for oil in Texas, much less running for office.

    Here’s how a 2018 article from Forbes summarized the bad and the good:

    As the chart shows, US manufacturing employment in absolute numbers grew strongly through WWII, then steadily for another few decades afterward, with recessions driving the only real hiccups. But total industrial employment hit a peak in the late 1970s, then began an accelerating forty year decline. This had a number of causes, including increasing use of automation, increasing imports, and strong labor productivity improvement.
    . . .
    In the past thirty years, a time during which lots of ink was spilled about American manufacturing disappearing, absolute output has risen almost nonstop. Again, the only real hiccups were during recessions, which is to be expected.

    (Emphasis added.)

    An example may help: GE, as far as I know, doesn’t make toasters any more, but they make jet engines and a jet engine sells for more than a toaster.

    We are making more, with fewer people. That makes us richer as a nation, but can be tough on those who can’t find the jobs their fathers had, in the places their fathers found them.

    (What did neoconservatives and Bush Republicans have to do with these trends? Almost nothing, one way or the other.)

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  109. First, Jim makes this claim:

    The trend began long before there any neoconservatives, and was established before George H. W. Bush was drilling for oil in Texas, much less running for office.

    Then, quotes an article that says:

    As the chart shows, US manufacturing employment in absolute numbers grew strongly through WWII, then steadily for another few decades afterward, with recessions driving the only real hiccups. But total industrial employment hit a peak in the late 1970s, then began an accelerating forty year decline.

    Belying his claim that this all began “long before” the neocons (who were already worming their way into the GOP’s upper ranks during Reagan’s administration) took effective control of the party in 1989.

    (What did neoconservatives and Bush Republicans have to do with these trends? Almost nothing, one way or the other.)

    A claim that’s contradicted by the very pull quote he cited, and had to resort to cherry-picking to bolster it. One might think that a loss of manufacturing jobs–and the neocons certainly had plenty of help from the Democrats in this after the Clintons took over–and the attendant socio-economic harms might be cause for concern. After all, seven years ago it was estimated that over 3 million jobs had been lost to outsourcing, and that’s not even taking the H1B tech jobs into account:

    US News
    Outsourcing to China Cost U.S. 3.2 Million Jobs Since 2001
    New research shows that more than three-quarters of jobs lost were in manufacturing.
    By Katherine Peralta
    Dec. 11, 2014, at 4:57 p.m.

    But as long as numerical output has grown, then in Jim’s mind, nothing bad has actually happened and those loss of jobs are something to be dismissed.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  110. We are making more, with fewer people. That makes us richer as a nation, but can be tough on those who can’t find the jobs their fathers had, in the places their fathers found them.

    This. All day long. People can’t expect to have the same jobs generation after generation. The economy is dynamic, not static. Buggy whip makers had to yield to the automotive industry, and so on.

    Yes, China makes a lot of things. But guess what? Blue jeans cost about the same as they did forty years ago, in nominal terms ($20-$30 at Costco last time I checked). If we adjusted for inflation, the average pair of blue jeans in 1980 would cost well north of $100 in today’s dollars. A minimum wage job these days would buy a lot more blue jeans than a minimum wage job in 1980 would. That is just one example of the benefits of free trade.

    Countries don’t trade with each other. It’s not like Biden gets on the phone with Xi and says, “I’ll give you X amount of soy beans for Y amount of shoes.” No. Companies trade with each other. To think that the government should inject itself between two companies is very misguided in most instances (sensitive technology is one exception). We can’t hurt China without hurting ourselves in the process. Trade wars make the countries on both sides worse off.

    Free trade is one of those issues that is counterintuitive. On the surface it seems like we’d be better off if we just made everything in the U.S. Unfortunately, economics says no. If there is one thing that economists agree on, it is the virtue of free trade.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  111. CBS News: Fauci says it’s “too early to tell” if we can gather for Christmas this year.

    Don’t make any plans till he tells us what we’re allowed to do.

    Obudman (86020d)

  112. “One bowl of chicken soup, 975 mgs of regular aspirin, 50 grams of grape brandy, and a two-hour nap, every four to six hours as long as symptoms persist.”

    Np

    Thank you. Every mother has known about chicken soup forever. It has been known for thousands of years.

    Why? Because it has every life sustaining thing in it. It is also well tolerated no matter how yucky you feel. A good chicken soup will stimulate the appetite. It will get your gut moving. It will get you hydrated. The greatest oral medicine ever invented.

    Echo (dffc56)

  113. But as long as numerical output has grown, then in Jim’s mind, nothing bad has actually happened and those loss of jobs are something to be dismissed.

    Teamsters’ leaders couldn’t have said it better, FWO.
    I ask again: Who did you vote for president in 2016 and 2020? Try not to evade the question this time.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  114. Brandy?

    As a recovering Mormon, I’ve tried beer and wine, along with a couple of the stronger offerings like tequila and whiskey. Why does brandy have going for it that those two don’t?

    norcal (b9a35f)

  115. 111. Jim Miller (edcec1) — 10/3/2021 @ 3:30 pm

    We are making more, with fewer people.

    We are making things of higher value.

    Some things that used to be made in the United States are no longer made, except in niche ways, and that can cause problems, but it doesn’t make us poorer as a whole. It can cause shortages.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  116. I ask again: Who did you vote for president in 2016 and 2020? Try not to evade the question this time.

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 10/3/2021 @ 9:12 pm

    Paul, the captious contingent avoids answering questions like this. They love to oppose, but are often silent about proposing anything.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  117. thanks biden voters

    Catch-and-release at border up more than 430,000% in August

    What a difference a year makes on the border.

    In August 2020, the Trump administration managed something stunning. Border Patrol agents caught more than 47,000 illegal immigrants and immediately released just 10 of them into the interior.

    This August, under President Biden, the Border Patrol made more than 195,000 arrests and released 43,941 people — an increase of more than 430,000%.

    Security experts say that’s the difference between a secure border and an unprecedented migrant surge.

    JF (b13d68)

  118. And there is not a single [thing] that politics cannot contaminate.

    I never blame politics when the sensationalist news media is a sufficient explanation.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  119. Yet Furman claimed the VAERS data shows that COVID-19 is less dangerous than the vaccines

    Anyone who cites VAERS data should be cashiered as too stupid to serve.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  120. [What] does brandy have going for it that those two don’t?

    Brandy is made from fruit, not grains.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  121. @123 Tequila is made from a cactus, I believe.

    Yes, I know brandy is made from fruit, but it doesn’t seem to be all the rage like tequilas and whiskey (or even vodka). I wonder why.

    norcal (b9a35f)

  122. 122. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 10/3/2021 @ 10:21 pm

    Anyone who cites VAERS data should be cashiered as too stupid to serve.

    But that proves something is not right. Only, it’s not the approval of the vaccine, it’s the VAERS system. Which gets a lot of garbage. \Sometimes unrelated, And sometimes true of only a tiny minority, either because of genetics or because of diet.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  123. The strategy of Pelosi, Schumer and Hoyer (Biden is mostly just being supportive of what the legislative leaders devise) is to come to an agreement in principle with the majority of the Senators on the big bill, and then pass the small bill.

    If the small bill passes the House it goes to the president and is signed. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi can hold it up a little after that but that won’t sit well with the centrists and she wouldn’t get their votes for the big bill. They cannot pass the big bill without passing the small bill first because of about nine or ten centrist Democrats. They matter because it will have no Republican votes and they need the nine or ten Democrats

    And they cannot pass the small bill first because there are about 100 “progressives” who think the most horrible outcome is to get just the small bill, and around 50 of them are prepared to vote against it and they don’t have enough Republican votes to pass the small bill, even though you might expect around 80 of them to vote for it, but House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy is trying to hold the caucus together in opposition.

    There are, in the House, only about 10 Never Trumpers, who probably don’t want Kevin McCarthy to be the leader and around 26 potential votes in the “Problem Solvers” caucus – not enough..

    Reaching agreement on the big bill is even more difficult than you might at first think, because it’s not only the total amount of the bill (which is by the way a fake figure and also fiscal gimmickry like starting some entitlements late and ending them early while counting the full ten years for revenue raising measures)

    Not restoring SALT (income tax deductions) is a deal breaker for at least 3 House Democrats, and illegal immigrant amnesty for even more, and the Senate Parliamentarian so far rejected two out of the five different approaches they want to try. I get no details in the news reports, which only touch tangentially on this. Maybe a good enough search could find the details, although the Democrats probably haven’t disclosed what their plans C, D and E are on immigration. They are lobbying the Parliamentarian, and maybe the Senators (the Parliamentarian can be overridden by a majority of Senators voting.)

    Nancy Pelosi is relying on hope. Hope against hope. She herself (and president Biden) would probably settle for the small bill alone if she can’t get anything else, but she hasn’t got a majority for that.

    So they are saying the two bills are linked. They are not quite trusted on that by the progressives and indeed they are trying to fool them because she can’t guarantee passage of the big bill.

    The “progressives” want the moderates to at least be squeezed first.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  124. The strategy of Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell is to refuse to vote for lifting the debt ceiling (they did vote for the continuing resolution but only after the debt ceiling provisions were taken out of it) in order to force the Democrats to use reconciliation for that.

    That gives Nancy Pelosi a tight deadline for coming to an agreement – a deadline that is not likely to be met. The debt limit must be raised or waived by sometime between mid-October and late November — unless Biden goes for minting the trillion dollar platinum coin.

    Note: Although the Senate Parliamentarian ruled that this year they can pass two budget reconciliations, one for 2021 and one for 2022, and in addition, pass a second one for eah year, the second one for each year may have difficulty getting out of committee. the Democrats may not be readyy to use up the 2022 budget resolution now.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)

    In April 2021, the Senate Parliamentarian—an in-house rules expert—determined that the Senate can pass two budget reconciliation bills in 2021: one focused on fiscal year 2021 and one focused on fiscal year 2022. In addition, the Senate can pass additional budget reconciliation bills by describing them as a revised budget resolution that contains budget reconciliation instructions.[3] However, the Parliamentarian later clarified that the “auto-discharge” rule that allows a budget resolution to bypass a Budget Committee vote and be brought directly to the Senate floor does not apply to a revised budget resolution.[4] As a result of this ruling, a revised budget resolution would need to be approved by a majority vote of the Budget Committee before proceeding to the Senate floor, or deadlocked with a tied vote and then brought to the Senate floor via a motion to discharge. In a 50-50 Senate where committees are evenly divided between parties, this has the functional effect of requiring at least one member of the minority party on the Budget Committee to be present in order to provide a quorum for a vote. Considering the inherently partisan nature of reconciliation legislation, it is highly unlikely that a member of the minority party will cooperate with the majority by providing a quorum on the Committee, thus practically limiting the majority of a 50-50 tied Senate to one reconciliation bill per fiscal year.

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  125. The New York Times had a story Saturday about the Arizona election audit.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/us/arizona-election-review.html

    Basically, it was hoax.

    THEY DIDN’T RECOUNT ALL THE VOTES!

    Now you may ask, if they made up numbers, why didn’t they have Trump win the state?? They are partisan Republicans, after all, given the contract by partisan Republicans.

    The answer, I think, is if they reported that |Biden lost what they said would undergo more scrutiny — and they were anxious to get paid and/or keep the money they were paid, whatever the case may be.

    They did throw Trump some bones, which he uses to keep on claiming Arizona was stolen from him/

    Sammy Finkelman (b434ee)

  126. https://redstate.com/nick-arama/2021/10/03/did-leftists-who-stalked-and-filmed-sinema-in-the-bathroom-commit-a-crime-n451507

    So a criminal alien harassed and stalked a sitting US Senator and it’s not newsworthy for any major publications? Why hasn’t the criminal alien been arrested and deportation proceedings begun?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  127. And yes I know the rags at the WaPo and a couple of others did mention it in articles, but they did so from the viewpoint of an activist left that framed the stalking as heroic and that Sinema had betrayed them when they helped elect her.

    Disgusting.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  128. Ms. Sinema is absolutely correct. Shame on the cultural Marxists who invaded her classroom and restroom.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  129. The stalking of Senator Sinema is just another aspect of cancel culture.

    Another issue with the big infrastucture bill (not actually called an infrastructure bill by its Democratic proponents but the Build Back Better bill) is the Hyde amendment, which says federal money cannot be used to pay for abortions (states of course can pay for it 100%) where the big bill loses votes whether they take it out (Joe Manchin in the Senate) or whether they put it in (Representative Pramila Jayapal (D. Wash.), chair of the progressive caucus.)

    And with her, and maybe on both sides, it’s the principle of the thing, it’s not the money.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  130. https://nypost.com/2021/10/03/nyc-vaccine-mandate-putting-an-end-to-underage-partying

    For awhile, till they all learn the workaround. The problem is that genuine untampered with vaccine IDs contains a date of birth.

    Still, at least some immunized underage club-hoppers say they’ve come up with a ruse to solve their booze dilemma.

    Jordan, a recent high-school grad, said it just takes a little Photoshop magic since most bars and clubs will accept snapshots of vaccine cards.

    “We got turned away a couple of times before we figured out all we had to do was edit the [photos] of our vaccine cards,” the Brooklyn teen said. “One of my friends can use Photoshop, so he just changed my birth year on the screenshot [of the card] on my phone.”

    Underage partiers producing doctored vaccine cards was a big issue this past summer, an East Village bouncer said. And some of young people trying to sneak in have fake immunization cards altogether, the Manhattan bar worker said.

    “There’s some app that they use” to try to align the cards with their fake IDs, he told The Post.

    “You can add in an Excelsior Pass template and then just put in your name and date of birth. It’s that easy,” he said, referring to the state’s free voluntary digital platform to show proof of vaccination. …

    …Nina, a college junior in the city, said, “Most places don’t even scan the Excelsior Pass, they just glance at them.

    “So all you have to do is change the birth year — that’s what a bunch of my friends did.”

    She added, “I’m under 21, but I’ve never been carded.

    “Usually bars and restaurants don’t ask for my ID, they just want to make a sale.

    `

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  131. https://nypost.com/2021/10/02/weak-joe-biden-caves-to-loony-left-goodwin

    It’s an oft-told tale that, given Friday’s developments in Washington, bears repeating.

    As Joe Califano describes it in “Triumph and Tragedy,” his revealing memoir of his time in Lyndon Johnson’s White House, the president summoned civil rights leaders during racial unrest in the explosive summer of 1967….

    …Frustrated, he launched an attack on the left-wing of his party, declaring, “A liberal is intolerant of other views. He wants to control your thoughts and actions.”

    As Califano writes, Johnson then moved closer to his guests to deliver the final punch: “You know the difference between cannibals and liberals? Cannibals eat only their enemies.”

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  132. Biden’s comments after the meeting revealed his capitulation, saying first that “we’re going to get this done.” But that bravado was instantly neutered when he added: “It doesn’t matter when. It doesn’t matter whether it’s in six minutes, six days or six weeks. We’re going to get it done.”

    Try to imagine LBJ saying he was fine with a minority of his party sidelining his agenda until they felt like addressing it. In fact, try to imagine any president folding like Biden did.

    His flop is especially odd in that passing the infrastructure bill would give him something he desperately needs: a victory.

    I don;t think they can get the small bill – right now anyway – because too many Democrats won;t vote for it without the big bill.

    They are trying to figure out what programs to leave out of the big bill.

    Sammy Finkelman (02a146)

  133. Andrew Yang has just changed his registration from Democrat to No Party

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  134. “Hmm… but they are all vaccinated…”

    Did you read the article NJRob?

    1) They’re not all vaccianted.
    2) The ones being hospitalized are unvaccinated.

    Davethulhu (017f04)

  135. Teamsters’ leaders couldn’t have said it better, FWO.

    Pointing out that your side destroyed jobs should be a cause for self-reflection, Paul.

    I ask again: Who did you vote for president in 2016 and 2020? Try not to evade the question this time.

    Paul Montagu (5de684) — 10/3/2021 @ 9:12 pm

    Why can’t you defend a single neocon policy, Paul? Try not to evade the question this time.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  136. This. All day long. People can’t expect to have the same jobs generation after generation. The economy is dynamic, not static. Buggy whip makers had to yield to the automotive industry, and so on.

    Except those jobs still exist–in China. And the conditions are so bad, in some instances they have suicide nets outside the factories so the workers don’t kill themselves. But hey, at least the Boomers don’t have to spend an extra $2 on a hammer.

    Paul, the captious contingent avoids answering questions like this. They love to oppose, but are often silent about proposing anything.

    norcal (b9a35f) — 10/3/2021 @ 9:20 pm

    The neocons’ overall record of failures, short-term thinking, and venality isn’t something to be taken at face value. If their policies and practices actually helped the GOP base, the voters wouldn’t have kicked them to the curb.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  137. I don’t think that any of the speakers about public health have any idea of what they are talking about when they speak of herd immunity.

    Now they are saying: Maybe we need to get to 90% vaccinated to reach herd immunity.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  138. “Now they are saying: Maybe we need to get to 90% vaccinated to reach herd immunity.”

    I’m no expert, but delta is more contagious than the original covid, so presumably that affects the herd immunity percentage.

    Davethulhu (017f04)

  139. FWO

    Except those jobs still exist–in China. And the conditions are so bad, in some instances they have suicide nets outside the factories so the workers don’t kill themselves. But hey, at least the Boomers don’t have to spend an extra $2 on a hammer.

    Do you take the time to buy locally sourced goods? Other then consumer electronics pretty much everything you use, eat, and wear can be purchased as domesticly made. You’ll have a lot less choice, and the price goes up so you’ll have fewer and older items, but it’s a option.

    And it’s the option you want to force on everyone else with protectionist trade policies; less choice and more money spent to acquire fewer things.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  140. untaxed crimaliens-ok by the sophisticated neocons and they want
    Lifelong Americans with antibodies shoved in an oven.

    mg (8cbc69)

  141. unvaxed.

    mg (8cbc69)

  142. Do you take the time to buy locally sourced goods?

    Of course, to the greatest extent I’m capable.

    Other then consumer electronics pretty much everything you use, eat, and wear can be purchased as domesticly made.

    The consumer electronics alone are problematic enough, as the DoD eventually woke up and began to realize that relying on Chinese electronics to put in their $80 million-dollar next-generation jets, to say nothing of the computer terminals in their SCIFs, might not be all that great for national security.

    This is, of course, beside the point, as just because those jobs could be outsourced doesn’t mean they should have been.

    And it’s the option you want to force on everyone else with protectionist trade policies; less choice and more money spent to acquire fewer things.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 10/5/2021 @ 4:03 am

    Once upon a time, domestic production was considered to be patriotic. Employing people here to produce the goods we consume here is hardly an oppressive economic policy. What’s even more ironic is that the decimation of these production centers and the working-class towns who relied on them, ended up pushing more people in to the cities and increasing the Democratic vote totals there even further–meaning that the neocons ended up cutting their own political throat from two directions.

    Factory Working Orphan (2775f0)

  143. @139, Neocons are principally defined by foreign policy goals….and aggressive interventionist policies. Their economic policies are less defined, though they tend to be less extreme….favoring capitalism and free trade but being open to the role of government….ie, they don’t favor eliminating the welfare state completely…..or eliminating all business regulation…..or being strict balanced budgeters.

    Now were they correct in their policy and opposition to the Soviet Union? Most would say “yes”. And most would say that their vigilance at wanting to avoid the emergence of a new competitor provides an important voice. Were they wrong on Iraq? Yes, but it was primarily on implementation. Opposing Saddam and changing the Middle East dynamic…especially with regards to Israel…..had some moral clout but the planning and execution were dismal…..and certainly showed the limitation of American military power and the ability to compel democracy. Some of the same goes for Afghanistan as well, though I have more empathy for maintaining a foothold in the cauldron for extremism. We will see in the coming decade what “leaving” costs….it’s too early to tell.

    As per free trade and capitalism…..most conservatives…let alone Neocons…support both. So globalization is not a plan hatched by Neocons…..though Neocons would probably see a role for government to smooth the transition more so than paleocons, libertarians, or tea partiers. There are winners and losers with trade but on net it’s hard to argue against trade being made easier. Pining for the 1950’s ignores that that was a unique time following a global war that wrecked much of the world. The economy is about skills and knowledge and hard work….and being willing to risk…lose…and learn. I’m not sure it’s about security blankets and hyper-protectionism…..at least not from a conservative perspective. But the problem here is that it seems like you’re trying to look backwards and settle scores…instead of addressing what new facts and situations demand. Labels and name-calling are poor substitutes to identifying what are real proposals for emerging problems. Maybe the Neocon impulse to Iran is wrong…but then what is the right mix of carrot and stick? It’s time to look forward with what we do understand….

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  144. What’s even more ironic is that the decimation of these production centers and the working-class towns who relied on them, ended up pushing more people in to the cities and increasing the Democratic vote totals there even further–meaning that the neocons ended up cutting their own political throat from two directions.

    While that remains the dynamic in most of the developing world, mainland China, and with illegal migrations, the movement of the citizen rural/interior into the cities poor hasnt really been a prominent trend since the immediate post WW-2 years (i.e. the Applachian migration into rust belt cities, the dust bowlers into California cities), and had usually been related to the diminished extraction of minerals or failure of agriculture, not closure of manufacturing. In fact for about 40 years manufacturing has been moved away from cities due to unions, perception of crime and taxation to suburbs, then exurbs then rural parts of right to work states, and unfortunately, off to foreign shores.

    It’s probably the same 10% “nerds” that would have moved to the cities anyway, but 90% most chosing to stay in place. However, you can fairly argue that the drug related issues have also come to them the ways they hadn’t before.

    urbanleftbehind (b39650)

  145. Why can’t you defend a single neocon policy, Paul?

    You’re still changing the subject, FWO, and I’ve already expressed my opinion about the Iraq invasion.
    Your non-answers speak well to your non-credibility.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  146. Do you take the time to buy locally sourced goods?

    Of course, to the greatest extent I’m capable.

    Then you understand the choice is there. Consumers could get US made vehicles, clothing, shoes, furniture, stationery supplies, & food. But they chose to buy cheaper goods that were designed and manufactured elsewhere. No one is forcing us to buy less expensive goods made over seas. We’re choosing to so. Realizing that I think the better approach is social spending to help people whose lives have been harmed by international trade. Even Adam smith acknowledged in the wealth of nations that the benefits wouldn’t accrue equally within a nation.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  147. BTW, manufacturing jobs have been in decline since the 1940s. To lay blame to the neocons and no one else, including the general operation of a free-market economy, is not honest.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)


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