Patterico's Pontifications

9/21/2021

The Text of the Enabling Act for Trump 2020

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



CNN has published John Eastman’s plan to overturn the 2020 election:

John Eastman, a conservative lawyer working with then-President Donald Trump’s legal team, outlined in a two-page memo a scheme to try to persuade then-Vice President Mike Pence to subvert the Constitution and throw out the 2020 election results on January 6.

The memo was obtained by The Washington Post’s Bob Woodward and Robert Costa, the authors of “Peril,” and which was subsequently obtained by CNN.

This was a carefully thought out and very detailed plan to steal the presidency from someone who had conclusively won it. There was no fraud greater than the picayune stuff that happens in every election. Yet the simple fact that a would-be strongman could not admit defeat was enough to set a machine into action to steal the election.

My thoughts about what ought to happen to people like John Eastman, I will keep to myself. Minimally, I will agree with Sonny Bunch, who tweeted: “Any pol who would go along with this nonsense should be run out of public life on a rail. Any party that would throw their support behind a nominee who wanted to do this is fundamentally broken.”

An aspiring fascist does not write his own Enabling Act. He has a flunky like John Eastman write one for him. There ought to be some societal response — shunning and general constant shaming seems quite mild — pour encourager les autres. But I don’t see it happening. What I see is what Kevin D. Williamson sees. Writing in the New York Times, Williamson says:

In the normal course of democratic politics, people who disagree about one issue can work together when they agree about another. We can fight over taxes or trade policy.

But there isn’t really any middle ground on overthrowing the government. And that is what Mr. Trump and his allies were up to in 2020, through both violent and nonviolent means — and continue to be up to today.

When it comes to a coup, you’re either in or you’re out. The Republican Party is leaning pretty strongly toward in. That is going to leave at least some conservatives out — and, in all likelihood, permanently out.

Biden is doing a horrific job. His Afghanistan policy would be a joke if the consequences were not so tragic. The crisis at the border continues apace. He has his own fringe element to manage and he’s doing a terrible job of it.

Shall I return then to the creepy embrace of those who would destroy our system to re-install a lunatic? Nope. I am out. “[A]nd, in all likelihood, permanently out.”

169 Responses to “The Text of the Enabling Act for Trump 2020”

  1. I am truly enjoying the fact that Mr. Eastman’s strategy to steal the election was so strongly based upon legal theories and ideas taken from the execrable Professor Laurence Tribe of Harvard Law School. How Prof. Tribe has any place in polite society after a career built around plagiarism, self-promotion, and rank partisanship is beyond me.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  2. @#1… Now do Jeffrey Toobin…

    DenZel (5a7c58)

  3. And, again, you must choose: Become a Democrat (with whom you share few values), join another (new?) party, or resign yourself to the choices of others.

    The other observation is that you assign much virtue to the Democrat Party, which has supported things just as bad in the past (secession, slavery and Jim Crow come to mind) and is not at all above its own electoral games. The massive gerrymander of the mid-20th century that perpetuated Democrat control of Congress well past its loss of support was probably as wrong as what Trump attempted.

    That it was elected Republicans that stopped Trump at every turn also deserves mention.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  4. “Don’t yet rejoice in his defeat, you men! Although the world stood up and stopped the bastard, the b!tch that bore him is in heat again.” — Bertolt Brecht

    nk (1d9030)

  5. BTW, you ignore also the Democrats’ proposal to similarly obviate the electoral vote:

    https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/sites/default/files/1-pager-npv-v221-2021-9-20.pdf

    “Agreement among the States to Elect the President by National Popular Vote”

    The National Popular Vote law will guarantee the Presidency to the candidate who receives the most popular votes in all 50 states and the District of Columbia.

    It will apply the one-person-one-vote principle to presidential elections, and make every vote equal.

    The National Popular Vote law has been enacted by 15 states and the District of Columbia, including 4 small states (DE, HI, RI, VT), 8 medium-sized states (CO, CT, MD, MA, NJ, NM, OR, WA), and 3 big states (CA, IL, NY). These states have 195 of the 270 electoral votes needed to activate the law.

    In addition, National Popular Vote has passed one legislative chamber in 9 states with 88 electoral votes (AR, AZ, ME, MI, MN, NC, NV, OK, VA), including the Republican-controlled Arizona House and Republican-controlled Oklahoma Senate. It has been endorsed by 3,529 state legislators.

    Why a National Popular Vote for President Is Needed

    Under the current system, close vote totals in a handful of narrowly divided states repeatedly create controversy, uncertainty, recounts, hair-splitting legal disputes, and a loss of confidence in elections.

    Under the current system, five of our 46 Presidents have come into office without winning the most popular votes nationwide. In the last six presidential elections, there have been two second-place Presidents (2000 and 2016) and two “near-miss” elections when this almost happened (2004 and 2020).

    In the “near miss” election of 2004, if 59,393 voters in Ohio had changed their minds, President Bush would have lost, despite leading nationally by over 3 million votes.

    In 2020, if 21,461 voters had changed their minds, Joe Biden would have been defeated, despite leading by over 7 million votes nationally. Each of these 21,461 voters (5,229 in Arizona, 5,890 in Georgia, and 10,342 in Wisconsin) was 329 times more important than the 7 million voters elsewhere.

    Presidential candidates only pay attention to the concerns of voters in closely divided battleground states. A dozen battleground states received virtually all (94% or more) general-election campaign events in the last three elections. The politically irrelevant spectator states included almost all of the small states, rural states, agricultural states, Southern states, Western states, and Northeastern states.

    How National Popular Vote Works

    The shortcomings of the current system stem from state “winner-take-all” laws that award all of a state’s electoral votes to the candidate receiving the most popular votes in each separate state. Winner-take-all is not in the U.S. Constitution and was never mentioned at the 1787 Constitutional Convention.

    The U.S. Constitution (Article II) gives the states exclusive control over the choice of method of awarding their electoral votes— thereby giving the states a built-in way to reform the system.

    “Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors….”
    The National Popular Vote law will take effect when enacted by states with a majority of the electoral votes (270 of 538). Then, the presidential candidate receiving the most popular votes in all 50 states and DC will get all the electoral votes from all of the enacting states. That is, the candidate receiving the most popular votes nationwide will be guaranteed enough electoral votes to become President.

    Under the National Popular Vote law, no voter will have their vote cancelled out at the state-level because their choice differed from majority sentiment in their state. Instead, every voter’s vote will be added directly into the national count for the candidate of their choice. This will ensure that every voter, in every state, will be politically relevant in every presidential election—regardless of where they live.

    The National Popular Vote law is a constitutionally conservative, state-based approach that retains the power of the states to control how the President is elected and retains the Electoral College.

    How is this less reprehensible?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  6. Kevin, I can’t think of any policy goals I hope the Dems accomplish. You list some of their historical sins but what the party was 60+ Years ago isn’t as relevant. I don’t think they’re going to try to turn Jim Crow back on.

    Trump tried to execute a coup, complete with an armed mob seizing capital. The leaders of the party not only have no interest in pushing back or holding him accountable they actively punish anyone that does.

    My choices are the party with bad policy, the party run by traitors, or joke candidates. It sucks but that’s where it is.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  7. Kevin, a proposal to change the rules (even a bad one) ahead of the next election is not the same thing as trying to ignore the results of the previous election and keeping the candidate who lost both the popular and electoral college in office.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  8. The first act of the incoming Democrat Governor and legislature here in New Mexico (Jan 2019) was to join the Electoral Vote Compact, even though that is not in the interest of a small state like NM. To me, this says that the long-term goal of the national Democrat Party is to supplant the Constitutional method of choosing a president by extra-constitutional means.

    Trump’s excuse is that he’s crazy. What excuse do the Democrats have (other than their surrogates in the press will make it sound like virtue)?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  9. Nevermind whatever else he wrote, it never gets to step #2. There was no competing slates of electors.

    whembly (ae0eb5)

  10. Time, yes, of course, but to assign them virtue when they are trying the same thing by other means does not seem reasonable. Had Trump laid out his plan in October, would you be OK with it?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  11. There was no competing slates of electors.

    Sure there was. Those guys over there, jumping up and down.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  12. @5 It’s just as reprehensible imo, and legally dubious.

    The only change that I’d think would past muster, is to award the electors by congressional district.

    whembly (ae0eb5)

  13. Moving from the EC to popular vote should require a conditional amendment. But again, a bad rule change isn’t the same thing as stealing an election by force.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  14. Whembly, tell that to the violent mob of Trump supporters that seized control of the capital while they were trying pull this off.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  15. Note: I do not defend Trump here. Trump is assh0le. But I find the idea that one party is reprehensible and the other virtuous to be risible. Both parties are trying to get advantage by tilting the process towards their strengths. Yes, Trump did it clumsily and dishonestly, but that’s Trump for you.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  16. Worse than Trump/2024
    It’s all you have.

    mg (8cbc69)

  17. The only change that I’d think would past muster, is to award the electors by congressional district.

    It obviously would, as Maine and Nebraska do that now. I don’t think it helps the Democrats as it cuts up CA and other urban states. The real problem with it is it increases the incentive to gerrymander.

    They could also do a proportional system, perhaps with a floor to avoid 3 Green electors from tossing it into the House.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  18. Kevin, I’m not saying the Dems are virtuous. I’m saying Trump tried to steal the presidency and the GOP went along with him. That’s not “tilting the process towards your strengths”.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  19. But again, a bad rule change isn’t the same thing as stealing an election by force.

    I don’t see “force” mentioned in the Eastman plan. It might have come up after the West Coast seceded, but it wasn’t in the plan. The EV compact could result in a different secession.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  20. @14

    Whembly, tell that to the violent mob of Trump supporters that seized control of the capital while they were trying pull this off.

    Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/21/2021 @ 9:35 am

    “seized control” is a bit hyperbolic.

    What were they going to do? Tell the congress critters to overturn the election with mean words, provided that they were able to overcome security and get to them?

    While it was a stain to our nation, the idea that the rioters had any semblance of a plan to do what you articulated is nonsense on stilts. It was a protest that went out of control and turned into a riot. There’s no need to exaggerate and in doing so weakens your positions on this sordid event

    whembly (ae0eb5)

  21. the GOP went along with him

    No, the GOP did no such thing. In the Senate a majority of GOP Senators had nothing to do with it. The plan was stopped cold by GOP officials in AZ & GA. The House members who signed on were a disappointment though. Trump had their balls in a vise.

    I was saddened by the failure of the second impeachment though. Unlike the first one, it had popular support.

    I also question whether this is “the GOP” or whether this is a GOP that has been infiltrated by previous non-voters, who have driven much of the rank & file out of the party. Maybe that’s a distinction without a difference, but if we get to the point where Trump is no longer an influence, it will matter.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  22. I should also point out that the only thing that Trump accomplished was to lose two Senate races in GA.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  23. @22x Trumps incompetence is his best feature. But if you say the GOP isn’t going along with this what have its leaders said or done to hold him accountable or discourage similar coup in the future?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  24. The GOP is still going along with their continuing “forensic audits”, even in counties that Trump won handily. Paranoia runs deep.

    Rip Murdock (2c90e9)

  25. @24 lol how long was the mueller probe?

    JF (e1156d)

  26. The Dems only needed to play their game in 6 large cities in 6 states. Which they did, Rip.

    Colonel Haiku (a28946)

  27. if you’re curious how democrats steal elections, look at the southern border

    JF (e1156d)

  28. Welcome to 1964.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  29. I should also point out that the only thing that Trump accomplished was to lose two Senate races in GA.

    Neutering the modern ideological conservative movement and rendering it irrelevant.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  30. @23. See 29.

    Glorious X10 23rd power.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  31. Oh good, the pro-treason lobby has joined the conversation.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  32. RIP, I think the Sheriff in Barry Co MI is fully committed. I think we’re likely to see pole like that in power mostly in places where Trump won by a lot. I also think there’s a bit of nut-picking in the linked story.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  33. @31 wrong thread

    this isn’t about your hero milley

    JF (e1156d)

  34. Biden is doing a horrific job. His Afghanistan policy would be a joke if the consequences were not so tragic. The crisis at the border continues apace. He has his own fringe element to manage and he’s doing a terrible job of it.

    50 years of experience.

    Here’s the deal: he’s always been a swamp creature and precisely why the likes of a Trump-type was spawned and finally elected to begin with.

    You bought him. You own him.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  35. @31. Sentiments of a Redcoated lieutenant sipping warm ale at public house after an April afternoon of musket practice on Lexington Green.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  36. #28

    Gol darn it, my TV only gets two stations, and one of them is all snowy. Plus I can’t stand having to go to work in this Sears-Roebuck suit. (Martha says the JC Penny is more stylish but you can’t get good tools at JC Penny) Least I’ll be able to retire from the tire plant when I’m 65, and I can go warm myself up from the cold when the river catches fire.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  37. “seized control” is a bit hyperbolic.

    What were they going to do? Tell the congress critters to overturn the election with mean words, provided that they were able to overcome security and get to them?

    While it was a stain to our nation, the idea that the rioters had any semblance of a plan to do what you articulated is nonsense on stilts. It was a protest that went out of control and turned into a riot. There’s no need to exaggerate and in doing so weakens your positions on this sordid event

    whembly (ae0eb5) — 9/21/2021 @ 9:46 am

    We don’t know for sure what Trump’s plan was, and I doubt we ever will. But it looks like part of it was to push the situation out of the existing process to buy more time for /something/.

    If you believe what they said at the time the rioters saw themselves as the vanguard of Trump using the military to seize power.

    What would have happened is obviously hypothetical but there are plenty of ways they could gummed up the works and further prevented the certification for the election. Some injuries, some hostages, (god forbid deaths) and the shambolic mob might have had an impact. I don’t think the fact they were idiots and Trump is incompetent makes what they did less wrong When it’s clear in their own words what they were trying to do.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  38. #36, that makes me yearn for the old days on this blog when Colonel Haiku used to make fun of DCSCA and his Barca lounger.

    urbanleftbehind (34aa87)

  39. The Evil’s Nest: Project for the New American Century

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  40. @36. Conservative whine; bitter dregs.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  41. I also think there’s a bit of nut-picking in the linked story.

    Lincoln Project-related?

    Colonel Haiku (a28946)

  42. ulb- You mean the the days when America truly was great… when white males ran everything. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  43. #25-27

    Obviously you fail to grasp my point- which is not only are Republicans investigating elections they clearly lost, but now they are investigating elections they won by 20 points or more. It has nothing to do with the Mueller probe or Democratic cities or the southern border.

    The paranoia runs deep here too.

    Rip Murdock (2c90e9)

  44. The GOP is still going along with their continuing “forensic audits”

    As long as it brings in money, they will run the “audits.” It’s for the children, you understand.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  45. @37. While it was a stain to our nation, the idea that the rioters had any semblance of a plan to do what you articulated is nonsense on stilts.

    Only to the pucker-butted-podium-hugging-$15-a-pint-ice-cream-Royalist-types. A little rebellious behavior is a good safety valve. Unless you prefer the Royalists showing up at the front door and skulking you away, one by one, to a place where ‘Arbeit macht frei.’

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  46. You mean the the days when America truly was great… when white males ran everything.

    You may be joking but that’s how Trump thinks. Replacing ideological conservatives with Dixiecrats isn’t the way forward.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  47. @43. Clearing out the refuse of disgruntled neocons and dislodged, ideological conservatives is messy; like a duststorm on Mars- it’ll hang around in the atmosphere for a while; takes time- like sweeping out the wreckage of the Birchers. Some leave vowing to start a news party which always fizzles; survivors adapt to the change and vow to stay and work from within for a few decades. The rest die off.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  48. @46. And Trump is a Reagan Creation, Kevin. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  49. @2. Now do Jeffrey Toobin…

    He does himself.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  50. Kevin Williamson has written, “The white working class should die off.”

    Trump will not be the GOP candidate in 2024.

    Trump may not be alive in 2024.

    DN (d6bed4)

  51. It wasn’t a plan to “overturn an election”, it was a plan to steal it.
    In the context of Eastman’s scheme, I can see why Trump was so upset at Pence, because it all hinged on his VP acting outside his authority.
    All I can say is, thank you, Mr. Pence. If there was ever a day to rebel against your unfit, unhinged boss, January 6th was that day.
    But yes, Mr. Brecht’s words are prophetic.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  52. The GOP is still going along with their continuing “forensic audits”

    As long as it brings in money, they will run the “audits.” It’s for the children, you understand.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 9/21/2021 @ 10:50 am

    I have nothing but contempt for the election fraud conspiracy theorists and grifters. But if you read the article and look up Barry country it’s pretty clear that this is being pushed by a true believer with a little bit of power.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  53. @36. (Martha says the JC Penny is more stylish but you can’t get good tools at JC Penny)

    Appalling: that’s spelled JC Penney.

    “My tailor, Savile Row.” – James Bond, 007 [Sean Connery] ‘Dr. No’ 1962

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  54. @50. Kevin Williamson has written, “The white working class should die off.

    AKA “Reagan Democrats.”

    “That’s-a-tellin’-him, Birdie.” – Twelve O’Clock High, 1949

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  55. @51. “It wasn’t a plan to “overturn an election”, it was a plan to steal it.”

    Pshaw! Corporate espionage! Capitalism 101.

    Reaganomics. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  56. “Nope. I am out.”

    What!? Poo slinging and Trump butt-sniffing isn’t your thing? Shocked I tell you, shocked.

    The GOP is being driven by right-wing media….which primarily wants drama and hyperbole….and thus Trump. If mg wants my vote to avoid worst-than-Trump…..or NJRob wants my vote to stop Critical Race Theory and transsexuals invading women’s locker-rooms….then they have to broaden their appeal….and message. A man who actively tried to subvert the election is a non-starter. Getting more Trump apologists elected is the wrong direction. Being awful in a different way…is still being awful.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  57. We’ve seen how VP Harris hasn’t handled the border mess at Del Rio. But what would Darth Cheney have done as they waded ashore from the Rio Grande?

    [ ] Greeted them as liberated

    [ ] Shoot them in the face

    [ ] Invaded Iraq. Again.

    Choose.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  58. @56. ‘My way or the highway’ is the principled ideological move, you know.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  59. Not one yearly budget in McConnell’s control of the Republican senate. Since 2006. Orange man bad.
    Worse than Trump is all you have.

    mg (8cbc69)

  60. @56. They don’t want your vote, AJ. Take the hint: they want you to leave the party.

    It’s always been intriguing to listen to ideological conservatives whine about the ‘inefficiencies of big government’ and how it should be ‘run like a business.’ Did a thesis on this and there’s hard data about it. And when a business/corporate type gets elected [the inevitability was projected in the thesis] and starts/tries to operate with the ‘ruthless efficiency’ of an executive, CEO corporatist– like keeping bureaucrats on ‘temporary status’ or firing people, forcing deadbeat ‘contractors’ [aka NATO] to ‘pay up’ etc., they whine.

    “Never mind what I told you. I’m telling you!” – Captain Morton [James Cagney] ‘Mister Roberts’ 1955

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  61. And Trump is a Reagan Creation, Kevin

    Just because you’ve said this 1000 times doesn’t make it true. Or even likely.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  62. He does himself.

    Boom shakalaka

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  63. “My tailor, Savile Row.” – James Bond, 007 [Sean Connery] ‘Dr. No’ 1962

    “My tailor, Skid Row”

    –Trump’s impeachment counsel.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  64. Forgettable UN speech topped by memorable line spoken by speechifying President What’s-His-Name at the UN in NY today “borders” on Titanic flooding ignorance:

    “We’re getting it under control.”

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  65. @61. Except it is.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  66. Observation- Woodward’s face has the look of an old, tired chimpanzee. Dining out on Watergate for 45 years is long enough. Retire, Bob.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  67. “I am out. And, in all likelihood, permanently out.”

    Ditto.

    DRJ (20f2f0)

  68. “Did a thesis on this and there’s hard data about it.”

    Sometimes it’s hard to imagine you writing a thesis

    “‘inefficiencies of big government’ and how it should be ‘run like a business.’ ”

    However, government is not the private sector….the whole premise of the Constitution is to compel government actors to compromise and make it difficult to run roughshod over the minority. CEO’s are more akin to autocrats and bullies…with little need for compromise. To a conservative, government is about limited enumerated power…..and focusing on just the things that government does well…and administrate those things competently. The idea of making it like a business is not really a conservative formulation. If the GOP was so enamored with business types….why didn’t Steve Forbes take off? Here’s a guy who is both bright and accomplished in the private sector. Romney was plausible because he had been a governor and worked the olympics. The GOP went for Trump because right-wing media raised the volume to 11….and there’s where Trump lives. You can’t keep making people angry and hateful….and not end up with someone angry and hateful. Right-wing media needs to be de-constructed….eventually it will happen….

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  69. Just wanted to say hi, DRJ.

    Dustin (150498)

  70. @68. =yawn= Personal slur; beneath you, AJ; but then, typical conservative whine; bitter dregs. You’ve got long 30 years ahead of you. Buy that compass.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  71. “I am out. And, in all likelihood, permanently out.”

    Unlike Rockefeller Republicans, circa 1964, whi stayed and worked the problem.

    Sunshine patriots can start their own party. Lottaa luck.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  72. calm down, he didn’t say you plagiarized your thesis. we all know how you feel about plagiarism

    Dustin (150498)

  73. AJ, The GOP went for Trump because it had 15 or 16 weenies on the menu and a T-bone, albeit a little fatty. The rank and file were tired of being seduced, used and abandoned. They passed on the pork and went for the steak. And will again.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  74. CEO’s are more akin to autocrats and bullies…with little need for compromise.

    Shorter: capitalists.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  75. The idea of making it [government] like a business is not really a conservative formulation.

    Except it is. Don’t run away from what you are, AJ.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  76. The GOP went for Trump because

    the normals split the vote, and the dumbs had a dumb celebrity option

    those who care about celebs a lot a lot dont understand why this was bad

    Dustin (150498)

  77. @76. 74-PLUS million dummies, eh.

    those who care about celebs a lot a lot dont understand why this was bad

    ROFLMAOPIP! “Bad” indeed; gets you ‘in Dutch':

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYeNuISN4Dc

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  78. At least no one is proactively defending this horribleness beyond trying to change the subject or make the case the the dems have flaws also.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  79. @78 Why not both?

    You can say 1/6 was a black mark in our political history and also say Democrats aren’t good actors either.

    whembly (ae0eb5)

  80. I thank the Lord for keeping me unenrolled. Republicans will do better with a smaller tent. Let the Worse than Trump voters flee.

    mg (8cbc69)

  81. Oh no. Its much much much worse to be clumsily dishonest than it is to be cleverly dishonest. Ask James Comey whose FBI had the definition shaved down so finely to the point where the difference between honesty and dishonesty was simple elitism. In the upper echelon of the FBI? Everything you do is good, virtuous and “harrumpf” certainly not prosecutable

    steveg (e81d76)

  82. You can say 1/6 was a black mark in our political history and also say Democrats aren’t good actors either.

    whembly (ae0eb5) — 9/21/2021 @ 2:07 pm

    Correct. Should be easy for anyone to agree with this.

    Dustin (150498)

  83. Kevin Clinesmith was trying to be cleverly dishonest and claimed he only altered the email ever so slightly to say what he felt was true about Carter Page. Judge Boasberg said that his feeling was that Clinesmith’s feelings were honestly come by and thus felt falsifying documentation to that tiny sliver of a sliver degree in a packet for a FISA warrant was no big deal because feelings. Clinesmith got 1 year probabtion and 400 hours of community service.
    Carter Page suffered more damage than Clinesmith. Why? Clinesmith is in the club, working with the righteous paragons of all that is true and good. His heart was determined to have been in the right place but had to pay an appropriate price for the clumsiness of getting caught lying to the FISA court. Probation.
    But sure the grandma from J6 who took a selfie in the Capitol and spent 6 weeks in lockup is guilty of a way worse attack on the very fabric of our nation than lying to a FISA judge as an FBI lawyer because he was clever. Nuanced. She was walmarty

    steveg (e81d76)

  84. Trump Campaign Knew Lawyers’ Voting Machine Claims Were Baseless, Memo Shows
    …….
    The court papers, which were initially filed late last week as a motion in a defamation lawsuit brought against the campaign and others by a former Dominion employee, Eric Coomer, contain evidence that officials in the Trump campaign were aware early on that many of the claims against the companies were baseless.

    The documents also suggest that the campaign sat on its findings about Dominion even as Sidney Powell and other lawyers attacked the company in the conservative media and ultimately filed four federal lawsuits accusing it of a vast conspiracy to rig the election against Mr. Trump.
    ……..
    ……..[The memo] found:

    That Dominion did not use voting technology from the software company, Smartmatic, in the 2020 election.

    That Dominion had no direct ties to Venezuela or to Mr. Soros.

    And that there was no evidence that Dominion’s leadership had connections to left-wing “antifa” activists, as Ms. Powell and others had claimed.
    ………
    It remains unclear how widely the memo was circulated among Trump campaign staff members. According to the court documents, Mr. Giuliani said in a deposition that he had not seen the memo before he gave his presentation in Washington, and he questioned the motives of those who had prepared it.
    ………
    Mr. Trump continues to falsely argue that the election was stolen from him, and in recent months Ms. Powell and Mr. Giuliani have stuck by their claims that the election was rife with fraud. A lawyer for Mr. Giuliani said in a court filing last month that at least some of his claims of election fraud were “substantially true.”

    But at the time that the internal report was prepared, Mr. Giuliani and Ms. Powell were both “active supervisors,” as he (Giuliani) put it in his deposition, in the Trump campaign’s broader plan to challenge the election results — an effort that eventually included more than 60 failed lawsuits filed across the country……..
    ………
    When lawyers for Mr. Coomer asked Sean Dollman, a representative of the Trump campaign, in a deposition if the campaign still believed that the election was fraudulent, he answered, “Yes, sir.”

    The lawyers then asked, “What is that opinion based on?”

    According to the court documents, Mr. Dollman gave a less than certain answer.

    “We have no underlying definite facts that it wasn’t,” he said.

    “We have no underlying definite facts that it wasn’t,” he said.
    >>>>>>>
    The Big Lie is still alive and well.

    Rip Murdock (2c90e9)

  85. I bet if all the david french kissing republicans left the tent, The leftover boobs might have a chance.

    mg (8cbc69)

  86. @84.I bet if all the david french kissing republicans left the tent, The leftover boobs might have a chance.

    Some folks just have to go ‘over the side.’ 😉

    “Well, that leaves just one thing… You’ve gotta evict some of the tenants.” – Frank Kelly [Lloyd Nolan] ‘Abandon Ship!’ 1957

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  87. C’est la sélection naturelle.

    mg (8cbc69)

  88. Correct. Should be easy for anyone to agree with this.

    Dustin (150498) — 9/21/2021 @ 2:47 pm

    Agreed, but who says otherwise? Which anti-Trump commenter here has uttered a kind word about the Democrats? I know I haven’t. Have you? Has Patrick? Dana? DRJ? Time? AJ? Radegunda? Saying that the party led by a demagogic insurrectionist who loudly purges anyone that opposes his schemes to overthrow a central pillar of our constitutional republic is irredeemably anti-democratic and anti-American is not leftism, communism, or an endorsement of Democrats.

    That’s a straw man. I’m not saying you’re suggesting otherwise. You’re not. But I read that as maybe the implied accusation in whembley’s comment. And it’s often leveled more directly by Rob, mg and others.

    In justifying his endorsement of Hillary Clinton in 2016, P.J. O’Rourke articulated the reasoning behind my vote for Biden and what I expect will be my vote for the least extreme Democrat for the foreseeable future: “[They’re] the second worst thing that could happen to this country. But [they’re] way behind in second place, you know? [They’re] wrong about absolutely everything. But [they’re] wrong within normal parameters.”

    lurker (59504c)

  89. Keep voting worse than Trump.

    mg (8cbc69)

  90. Worse than Trump/2024

    mg (8cbc69)

  91. david french kissing republicans could form a new party, and call it the “Lip Service” party.

    mg (8cbc69)

  92. @#87- Dustin (150498) — 9/21/2021 @ 3:37 pm

    =yawn=

    Biden underwater in Iowa: New poll shows just a 31 percent approval rating

    While 31 percent gave Biden a thumbs up, 62 percent disapprove of his performance, a Des Moines Register/Mediacom Iowa poll shows.

    https://nypost.com/2021/09/21/biden-approval-rating-in-iowa-dips-to-31-percent/

    Disastrous Iowa Poll Shows Even More Bad News for Biden

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/reaganmccarthy/2021/09/21/biden-iowa-poll-n2596226

    =mikedrop=

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  93. Vice President Kamala Harris slams Border Patrol for ‘horrible’ horseback attacks on Haitian migrants

    Vice President Kamala Harris Tuesday said she was “deeply troubled” by images of Border Patrol officers attacking desperate Haitian migrants at the southern border — and called for an investigation.

    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/vice-president-kamala-harris-slams-border-patrol-for-horrible-horseback-attacks-on-haitian-migrants/ar-AAOFWXa?ocid=uxbndlbing

    Yes. She is a dumb, dark, stupid bitch.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  94. 89. Lol. In my lifetime I’ve yet to see a plausible candidate on my ballot, left or right, who was worse than Trump.

    lurker (59504c)

  95. Memo to Queen Karamalla- sorry this border thingy interferes with your football game coin-tossing duties and plans to cackle on The View on Friday.

    Howza about a drone strike instead of reining in illegals on horseback instead. You hear the one bout the illegals who ‘hijacked’ a bus, overpowered the driver and fled into the Texas countryside, dear?

    Better still, why don’t you get your lazy, fat azz down to the border and manage it like you’re supposed to.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  96. Never been one to praise Texas but God bless them all! So proud of those Americans.

    Cowboying those miserable, Covid carrying illegals back into the Rio Grande on horseback is just ballsy. Pull out your Winchesters and wing a few of ’em– that’ll srun ’em off the range. Bet your ass they’d have done a better job of protecting the Kabul airport than Drone Strike Milley and his over-the-horizon toys.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  97. #80 “Republicans will do better with a smaller tent.”

    Republicans won’t, if by “do better” you mean win more elections; Trumpistas will feel better, since they are unable to tolerate any criticism of their idol. And I use a religious word, intentionally.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  98. When a person asserts, over and over something obviously false — such as Trump being Reagan creation — you hope that, if they believe what they are saying and are not just making propaganda, Communist style — that they will get some help from a cognitive psychiatrist.

    Perhaps, if they get that help, they will stop abusing this site.

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  99. Whembly, Didn’t mean that both aren’t bad. Was commenting on the subject change. I’m good with both.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  100. 94 -rotflmmfao – You voted for one

    mg (8cbc69)

  101. @80. I thank the Lord for keeping me unenrolled. Republicans will do better with a smaller tent. Let the Worse than Trump voters flee.

    It’s more a matter of clearing out the brush and ideological deadwood. Ronnie won by expanding the tent and drawing in those famed ‘Reagan Democrats’ who abandoned Jimma.

    The irony is, today, Jimma looks increasingly like an unlucky fella caught up by events set in motion before his time and beyond his control, not of daily disasters of his own making like President What’s-His-Name and his side kick, Karamella.

    “I’m a victim of circumstances!” – Jerry ‘Curly’ Howard, almost any of his ‘Three Stooges’ short, Columbia Pictures

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  102. Jim Miller – Are you a dr. like jill the shill?

    mg (8cbc69)

  103. 100. I’m happy for you to believe that.

    lurker (59504c)

  104. @102. It’s a cinch she’s a nurse of some kind. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  105. Four years of Deep State perfidy and bullsh*t… and nothing but perfidy and bullsh*t.

    Colonel Haiku (cbe514)

  106. January 6 sent a loud and clear message to both parties. Too bad the Royalists are old and can’t hear very well.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  107. 103 – I know worse than Trump and you republicans are full of them. Voted for Harold Levander back in the 60’s. A good republican.

    mg (8cbc69)

  108. You’d have to look in New York’s sewers to find worse than Trump, and I think Hurricane Ida drowned most of them anyway.

    nk (1d9030)

  109. 107. I’m not a Republican. (Like you I believe ?), I’m a registered independent. Even so, I can’t think of any Republican who’s worse than Trump. Even if there may be one who’s as unprincipled, or another who’s as dishonest, or as corrupt, or as pig-ignorant, or as pathologically disordered, there’s nobody even close to being all those things. Trump is the Shohei Ohtani of bad. He’s five-tool, all-time worst bad.

    lurker (59504c)

  110. Your guy the cellar dweller is far worse than Trump

    mg (8cbc69)

  111. Sunshine patriots can start their own party. Lottaa luck.

    I do not think I will live to see the GOP win a statewide election in California. Another party might.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  112. those who care about celebs a lot a lot dont understand why this was bad

    Trump capitalized on something that people were ignoring: half the voters have 2-digit IQs. ANd it sure helped that both major parties were seeing who could do the best BJ on the upper-middle-class.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  113. @109. Even so, I can’t think of any Republican who’s worse than Trump.

    Think again:

    Joseph McCarthy, The Big Dick, Spiro Agnew, Randy ‘Duke’ Cunningham, Budd Dwyer… etc., etc.,

    =mike-drop=

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  114. @111. It’s a well financed party so it likely will once it cleans house, retools and joins the 21st century– but it’s not going to happen from the top down but the ground up- district by district. And as long as the borders remain open, it’s only going to take longer. One in four San Diego County residents now are ‘Latino’ w/a significant percentage, illegals. They ain’t GOP fodder.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  115. Trump capitalized on something that people were ignoring: half the voters have 2-digit IQs.

    That’s an elitist POV- the very thing the GOP attacks the Ds about.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  116. 113. Trump embodies the worst qualities of all those people and then some. If you set out to design a comprehensively awful person and political leader, you’d be hard-pressed to do better than Trump.

    lurker (59504c)

  117. Republicans won’t, if by “do better” you mean win more elections

    Some people enjoy being oppressed. They know they’re right, too, so it’s extra special.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  118. You can too…

    https://www.us.mensa.org/join/

    Colonel Haiku (a28946)

  119. david french kissing republicans could form a new party, and call it the “Lip Service” party.

    How about the “Kiss our ass or the commies win” party? Oh, wait, that’s Trump’s platform.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  120. @116. Shorter: a capitalist.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  121. 89. Lol. In my lifetime I’ve yet to see a plausible candidate on my ballot, left or right, who was worse than Trump.

    Wallace/LeMay in ’68, although it wasn’t *my* ballot.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  122. https://www.us.mensa.org/join/

    Bah. A mere 2 sigma.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  123. @109: Can I pick from all members of Congress? Ms Greene, for example? If I can pick from state GOP officials, I’m sure I could find worse just in Arizona.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  124. 89. Lol. In my lifetime I’ve yet to see a plausible candidate on my ballot, left or right, who was worse than Trump.

    Goldwater/Miller in ’64.

    ‘Johnson beat Goldwater in the general election, winning over 61% of the popular vote, the highest percentage since the popular vote first became widespread in 1824. In the end, Goldwater won only his native state of Arizona and five Deep South states—Louisiana, Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama and South Carolina—which had been increasingly alienated by Democratic civil rights policies… The 1964 election was a major transition point for the South, and an important step in the process by which the Democrats’ former “Solid South” became a Republican bastion. Nonetheless, Johnson still managed to eke out a bare popular majority of 51–49% (6.307 to 5.993 million) in the eleven former Confederate states. Conversely, Johnson was the first Democrat ever to carry the state of Vermont in a Presidential election, and only the second Democrat, after Woodrow Wilson in 1912 when the Republican Party was divided, to carry Maine in the twentieth century. Maine and Vermont had been the only states that FDR had failed to carry during any of his four successful presidential bids.

    Of the 3,126 counties/districts/independent cities making returns, Johnson won in 2,275 (72.77%) while Goldwater carried 826 (26.42%). Unpledged Electors carried six counties in Alabama (0.19%).

    The Johnson landslide defeated many conservative Republican congressmen, giving him a majority that could overcome the conservative coalition.

    This is the first election to have participation of the District of Columbia under the 23rd Amendment to the US Constitution.’- source, wikiconservativebuttkicked.org

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  125. But I read that as maybe the implied accusation in whembley’s comment. And it’s often leveled more directly by Rob, mg and others.

    I know. But when put the way Whembley does, might as well agree. Because he’s definitely right.

    I recognize another key similarity between nevertrumpers and anti-nevertrumpers (a more accurate way to describe Trump fans). We all have the best ‘toldya so’. Biden and Trump were both terrible. We all knew it about our opponent. It’s miserable seeing how right we are/were. And we got here by focusing on opposition. It’s lazy to destroy, difficult to build.

    That’s why most of Dcsca’s comments that aren’t obsessing over media celebrity are just ‘no. bla bla bla’ or ‘yawn (about something he’s actually obsessed with).

    It’s a hell of a lot easier to screw the country up than it would be to improve her, a hell of a lot easier to damn the movement because Ronald Reagan is scary, and say the wreckage is glorious.

    And it’s pathetic. We can all see how pathetic. https://www.npr.org/2020/11/07/928803493/biden-wins-presidency-according-to-ap-edging-trump-in-turbulent-race

    biden barely even tried to campaign and easily rolled over the weakest incumbent president in the nation’s history. He started weak, losing a popularity contest to hillary, ended weak, losing to a guy who is good at eating ice cream cones.

    We could do better if we wanted to, but we don’t. This is a matter of willpower and confidence.

    Dustin (eea9f7)

  126. @125. You really don’t get it. But then, those on the wrong side of history seldom do… for decades.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  127. Dustin (eea9f7)

  128. Ahem

    Dustin (eea9f7)

  129. “We will get it under control.” – President Plagiarist 9/21/21

    Referencing:

    [ ] Covid

    [ ] Southern border

    [ ] Drone strikes

    [ ] Hunter

    [ ] What’s his name

    [ ] Incontinence

    Choose.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  130. @128. Lactose Incompetent.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  131. yes

    and still much stronger than Trump and all his fanboys, even if they break every rule and crap on every principle of democracy

    you guys are only that weak by choice

    Dustin (eea9f7)

  132. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1j0FS0Z6ho
    Your loser has been worse than Trump for a long, long time.

    mg (8cbc69)

  133. Except at winning against Trump tho

    Dustin (eea9f7)

  134. Apologies to Julia Ward Howe…

    Biden Hymn To The Public

    Mine eyes have seen the horror of the coming of the hordes;
    They are trampling ‘cross the border as the Rio Grande they ford;
    They are Covid laced, unstoppable by rifle, fist, or sword;
    The virus marches on!

    Glory! Glory! Joseph Biden!
    Glory! Glory! Folks be dyin’!
    Glory! Glory! Joe you’re lyin’!
    The virus marches on!

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  135. posted 21 hours ago by 1BlueFalcin4Lyfe +25 / -0

    mg (8cbc69)

  136. @135. A plagiarist? 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  137. I consider Eastman as dangerous as anyone who does not support Voter ID.

    Obudman (4c6cec)

  138. @139 disagreeing about the balance between fraud prevention and voting access is in no way similar to stealing an election you clearly lost.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  139. “it had 15 or 16 weenies on the menu and a T-bone, albeit a little fatty. The rank and file were tired of being seduced, used and abandoned. They passed on the pork and went for the steak.”

    The analogy would be better if you had Trump as the Twinkee and the rest of the field had a variety of healthy foods…..some were sushi, some were lean chicken, some were chopped salad, some were Thai…..the healthy foods all split the vote….and too many voters voted for Twinkees…probably secretly knowing they are unhealthy, not filling, and just generally bad for them….but like fast food….it’s quick and gives them a great sugar high. Trump similarly has no substance…and feeds people’s worst instincts. The GOP no longer really talks policy….just grievances….and shoots its ideological allies who want more than Twinkees. For you that’s “Glorious”….for mg, he’d rather lose…again and again….rather than give up his Twinkees. He is invested in Twinkees…..maybe they’re the next big cure for Covid…..

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  140. It should be state by state. Up here in Illinois, we know who we are and we just tell the poll workers. In other places, maybe people should carry an ID poll workers can quickly look at. It’s not fair to the poll workers to have to check the name tags the voters’ moms sewed on their underwear.

    nk (1d9030)

  141. While they were setting up a plan to steal the presidency they also knew that their pretext was a lie.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/573227-trump-campaign-knew-soon-after-election-that-voting-machine-tampering-claims

    Former President Trump’s campaign reportedly knew soon after the November election that claims it made about voting machine irregularities leading his defeat were inaccurate.

    Court documents released Monday show that by the time a campaign news conference on the issue took place, an internal memo had already been circulated confirming that the claims about Dominion Voting Systems and software company Smartmatic were false, according to The New York Times.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  142. they also knew that their pretext was a lie

    According to Alyssa Farah, inter alia, the campaign’s own internal polling showed that DJT was likely to lose. His “I can’t possibly lose unless they cheat” narrative was primarily a product of pathological narcissism, but it served to prepare his followers’ belief that the Dems or the Deep State must have cheated when he lost.

    A portion of the American electorate chose to view DJT as a courageous voice of truth who exposes the lies and corruption of “elites” and the Deep State. In reality, DJT’s version of truth is whatever serves his ego and interests, but most of his voters elevated it to gospel.

    Radegunda (33a224)

  143. How to make the border disaster worse: Al ‘Tawana Brawley’ Sharpton is headed for Texas.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  144. Maxine Waters Calls Haiti Migrant Treatment ‘Worse Than What We Witnessed in Slavery’

    https://www.newsweek.com/maxine-waters-calls-haiti-migrant-treatment-worse-what-we-witnessed-slavery-1631707

    Congresswoman Maxine Waters said the images and videos of Border Patrol agents on horseback confronting Haitian refugees at the border is “worse than what we witnessed in slavery.”

    “What we witnessed takes us back hundreds of years. What we witnessed was worse than what we witnessed in slavery,” Waters said at a Wednesday press conference. “Cowboys with their reins, again, whipping Black people, Haitians, into the water where they’re scrambling and falling down when all they’re trying to do is escape from violence in their country.”

    We? Yes. She’s that old.

    And now, OFFICIALLY ODD.

    One. Dumb. Darkie.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  145. June, 2015:

    Joe Biden: ‘A Good Thing’ When Whites ‘Absolute Minority’ in 2017 (Census Bureau Projects Majority-Minority Nation in 2044)

    “By 2017, those of us of European stock will be an absolute minority in the United States of America,” Biden said at a State Department luncheon for Brazilian President Dilma Rousseff. According to pool reports, Biden added that that’s “not a bad thing, that’s a good thing” because it means the country is becoming more diverse.

    The U.S. Census Bureau revealed last week that in 2014, minorities made up a majority of children under five years of age in the United States for the first time.

    Biden is reportedly considering a run for the White House and his party’s chances of keeping the White House depend on whether minorities and young voters who made up Obama’s coalition turn out again with the same level of enthusiasm. Recent polling has found that non-white voters are less enthusiastic about the 2016 election than white voters who tend to lean more Republican.”

    And where are Haitians chiefly coming from?

    Brazil.

    Idiot.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  146. This was a carefully thought out and very detailed plan to steal the presidency from someone who had conclusively won it.

    But it did not involve a riot.

    This is what Giuliani talked about at the rally at the Ellipse on January 6.

    https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/rudy-giuliani-speech-transcript-at-trumps-washington-d-c-rally-wants-trial-by-combat

    …Number one; every single thing that has been outlined as the plan for today is perfectly legal. I have Professor Eastman here with me to say a few words about that. He’s one of the preeminent constitutional scholars in the United States. It is perfectly appropriate given the questionable constitutionality of the Election Counting Act of 1887 that the Vice President can cast it aside and he can do what a president called Jefferson did when he was Vice President. He can decide on the validity of these crooked ballots, or he can send it back to the legislators, give them five to 10 days to finally finish the work. We now have letters from five legislators begging us to do that. They’re asking us. Georgia, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Wisconsin, and one other coming in.

    It also wasn’t carefully thought out in all its aspects, as, for one thing, it did not have the concurrence of Mike Pence.

    So it couldn’t even get started.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  147. I thought the reason they only disputed six states: Georgia [16] Pennsylvania [20] Arizona [11] Michigan [16] Wisconsin [10] Nevada [6] was that was the minimum they needed to drag Biden down below Trump. They could then make the count 232-227 in favor of Trump.

    What’s the seventh state that drags Biden down to 222? New Mexico? It was the only state with 5 Electoral votes.

    This plan also counts on most Republicans in Congress supporting Trump – and they didn’t, especially in the Senate.

    Eastman also wanted to drag debate on – till January 20? Nancy Pelosi then becomes Acting Presidemt.

    But that was the Election of 2020. What could happen in 2024 I don’t know.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  148. 18. Time123 (9f42ee) — 9/21/2021 @ 9:40 am

    I’m saying Trump tried to steal the presidency and the GOP went along with him.
    The GOP did NOT go along with him – when it mattered.

    Many did go along when it didn’t matter.

    The oath of office to support the Constitution means something.

    The problem is in the future.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  149. “Why did they try to suppress this and keep it hidden?”

    Love to climb over barricades when I’m in a tour group.

    Davethulhu (017f04)

  150. Just tourist things.

    Davethulhu (017f04)

  151. Enjoying the historic architecture.

    Davethulhu (017f04)

  152. DCSCA clearly wants a vacation. I’ll arrange it.

    Patterico (87951e)

  153. The cellar dweller[ the worse than Trump moron} says plenty of bad things about blacks.

    mg (8cbc69)

  154. There was no way any plan was going to win. Trump was actually checkmated.

    But this was partially because of the way other elections came out (i.e. the Democrats had re-gained control of the House of Representatives and elected Nancy Pelosi Speaker, so running out the clock, even if he could, wouldn’t help him.)

    But there were people willing to give him hope. And to give Giuliani. This Eastman plan depends on enough states appointing competing slates of Electors – and people were telling Giuliani, just give us a day and or state legislature will do it – never mind its past the date set by Congress for the Electors casting their votes, never mind that there’s nothing remotely close to a majority in their state legislature for doing that.

    The crowd, which Trump declared consisted of “hundreds of thousands” of people…

    https://factba.se/transcript/donald-trump-speech-campaign-rally-the-ellipse-january-6-2021

    …media will not show the magnitude of this crowd. Even I, when I turned on today, I looked, and I saw thousands of people here. But you don’t see hundreds of thousands of people behind you because they don’t want to show that. We have hundreds of thousands of people here and I just want them to be recognized by the fake news media. Turn your cameras please and show what’s really happening out here because these people are not going to take it any longer.

    They’re not going to take it any longer. Go ahead. Turn your cameras, please. Would you show — They came from all over the world actually, [Note: At this point Trump realizes saying “the world” is a blunder] but they came from all over our country. I just really want to see what they do. I just want to see how they covered. I’ve never seen anything like it but it would be really great if we could be covered fairly by the media….

    …It’s just a great honor to have this kind of crowd and to be before you and hundreds of thousands of American patriots who are committed to the honesty of our elections and the integrity of our glorious republic.

    The crowd was assembled to put political pressure on members of Congress, not to disrupt the proceedings. (What good would that do him? Trump had his own plan for delay and it would have delayed things even longer than what actually happened even with the forced recess because some of the challenges were dropped.)

    This was not Mussolini’s March on Rime, and in any case, in that case, in Italy, in 1922, they caved when they didn’t need to.

    Now some of the people at the Capitol actually were there for the purpose of disruption, but they had their own reasons – it was not a Trump plan.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  155. *March on Rome:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_on_Rome

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  156. 26. Colonel Haiku (a28946) — 9/21/2021 @ 10:04 am

    The Dems only needed to play their game in 6 large cities in 6 states. Which they did, Rip.

    Trump did better in 2020 than in 2016 in the more Republican suburbs, not the cities.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  157. * people [a few state legislators] were telling Giuliani, just give us a day and our state legislature will do it – never mind its past the date set by Congress for the Electors casting their votes, and never mind that there’s nothing remotely close to a majority in their state legislature for doing that.

    (IN Arizona self appointed electors had cast votes on spec that they would later be retroactively appointed (trying to make sense of that)

    I think the Eastman memo was written a little bit in advance of January 6. That’s why it was already overtaken by events.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  158. Well done @155.

    DRJ (02d0b8)

  159. Hello, Dustin. Best wishes to you and your family.

    DRJ (02d0b8)

  160. Thank you. We are deleriously happy, blessed, and maybe tired.

    Dustin (150498)

  161. Draft report of GOP-backed ballot review in Arizona confirms Biden’s win

    This has got to be disheartening to all those who sent their last dollars to the Arizona audit effort. It turns out the audit was being run by RINOs after all!

    A Republican-commissioned review of nearly 2.1 million ballots cast last year in Arizona confirmed the accuracy of the official results and President Biden’s win in Maricopa County, according to a draft report prepared by private contractors who conducted the recount.

    The draft was obtained by The Washington Post late Thursday night in advance of a planned public release of a final version on Friday.

    The ultimate findings will cap a costly and drawn-out recount launched by the GOP-led Arizona Senate that had been championed by former president Donald Trump and kept alive false claims that fraud tainted the election in the state’s most populous county. The process was pilloried by election experts who warned that the methods used by the firm hired to run the review were sloppy and biased.

    After nearly six months and almost $6 million — most of it given by groups that cast doubt on the election results — the draft report shows that the review concluded that 45,469 more ballots were cast for Biden in Maricopa County than for Trump, giving Biden 360 more votes than the certified results.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  162. What’s the seventh state that drags Biden down to 222? New Mexico? It was the only state with 5 Electoral votes.

    Not even close.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  163. @Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

    The crowd was assembled to put political pressure on members of Congress, not to disrupt the proceedings. (What good would that do him?

    Other people have pointed out in this thread that the primary obstacle to the success of the Eastman Plan, or really any competitor or similar plan, was Nancy Pelosi’s control of the house. Per my read of Google, that control involved seventeen House Democrats.

    So the 1/6 rioters, by killing 17 Democratic members of the House, instantly hand Congressional Republicans control of the legislature.

    And the Eastman plan lives again. That’s my personal take on the goals of the 1/6 mob’s masterminds. Not spoken about much for obvious reasons (because talking about it would have scared away some of the hangers-on and amped up the shadow bureaucratic struggle to stand down the defenses to the Capitol).

    Intimidation and hostage taking were also, at least notionally, alternative means to the same path – attempting to force Congress to throw out the results of the election and declare Trump the winner. All very unlikely, but all straightforwardly Trump’s MO.

    glasnost (790a89)

  164. #155

    DCSCA clearly wants a vacation. I’ll arrange it.

    And Biden smiled.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  165. glasnost (790a89) — 9/24/2021 @ 9:55 am

    Other people have pointed out in this thread that the primary obstacle to the success of the Eastman Plan, or really any competitor or similar plan, was Nancy Pelosi’s control of the house.

    No that was not the real obstacle, except that it meant that if somehow the clock ran out, a Republican would not become Acting President.

    Mitch McConnell, who at the time was Majority Leader of the Senate was opposed to this as was Vice President Mike Pence (The Republicans still controlled the Senate because while the Georgia elections were held on January 5, but the results were not official and it would take some time to certify the results and have the newly elected members sworn in. It happened just about Inauguration Day. Senate David Perdue’s term had run out January 3, but Kelly Loeffler was stlll Senator because she was serving part of Johnny Isaakson’s unexpired term. The Senate, on January 6, 2021, was split 51-48 in favor of the Republicans.

    Per my read of Google, that control involved seventeen House Democrats.

    It was less than that.

    So the 1/6 rioters, by killing 17 Democratic members of the House, instantly hand Congressional Republicans control of the legislature.

    It;s not instant, and the FBI found there was no worked out plan. They were screaming about hanging Mike Pence and maybe killing the Speaker.

    And the Eastman plan lives again. That’s my personal take on the goals of the 1/6 mob’s masterminds.

    Of they had a plan, it might have been actually that they could persuade Donald Trump to reverse his decision not to try to declare martial law.

    But the United States was not the Philippines and he was no Ferdinand Marcos.

    Not spoken about much for obvious reasons (because talking about it would have scared away some of the hangers-on and amped up the shadow bureaucratic struggle to stand down the defenses to the Capitol).

    And they certainly didn’t tell Donald Trump if the whole idea was to get him to change his mind.

    Intimidation and hostage taking were also, at least notionally, alternative means to the same path – attempting to force Congress to throw out the results of the election and declare Trump the winner.

    Hostage taking could run out the clock, but Congress could assemble somewhere else And running out the clock wouldn;t help them.

    One possibility the Eastman Plan relied on was the possibility of throwing the election into the House of Representatives, where, if every member voted according to his or her party registration, Trump would be the winner, in spite of the slight majority of members who were Democrats.

    If no one was chosen, the Senate would choose the vice president and till about January 20, the Senate would remain Republican.

    But this presumes a party loyalty that didn’t exist.

    Trump could not avoid being checkmated, no matter what he did. You can game out all the possible alternative moves he might have made, both bloody and not.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  166. As Patterico says, there are efforts to set things up for next time. So this is bad.

    There’s an attempt to turn the Republican Party into an analogue of the Communist Party of old. They have a long way to go, though, and probably can’t get there by 2025.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

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