Patterico's Pontifications

9/13/2021

GOP Candidate Leading Polls To Replace Gov. Newsom Lays Groundwork for Claims of Rigged Election (UPDATE ADDED)

Filed under: General — Dana @ 3:04 pm



[guest post by Dana]

This comes straight from the Trump sore loser playbook: If you are defeated it can only be because the election was rigged:

[Republican candidate Larry] Elder, the leading Republican candidate to replace Newsom if the recall is successful…said he believes the “shenanigans” would be similar to those that happened during the 2020 election, in which President Joe Biden defeated former President Donald Trump. There was no evidence of widespread election fraud in that election.

“What I believe is that no matter what they do — and I believe that there might very well be shenanigans, as it were in the 2020 election — no matter what they do, so many Californians are angry about what’s going on” that he will win anyway, Elder said, citing anger around crime, homelessness and quality of public education.

Elder — echoing claims made by Trump during and after the 2020 election, as well as comments about the California race from right-wing media — has started to question the possible election results, telling supporters that his campaign is ready and willing to file lawsuits and pointing them to a campaign website portal that allows people to report possible issues.
“We have a voter integrity board all set up – most of these are lawyers,” Elder said Wednesday. “So, when people hear things, they contact us. We’re going to file lawsuits in a timely fashion.”

“The 2020 election, in my opinion, was full of shenanigans,” Elder said this weekend on Fox News, another outlet that has helped spread falsehoods about election integrity. “And my fear is they’re going to try that in this election right here and recall.”

Elder was sticking to the same message this morning when answering a direct question about whether he would accept tomorrow’s election results:

Of course Trump himself has also pushed the rigged election nonsense:

“It’s probably rigged,” Trump said, repeating complaints about mail-in ballots he raised in 2020. “The ballots… are mail-in ballots… I guess you even have a case where you can make your own ballot. When that happens, nobody’s gonna win except these Democrats. The one thing they are good at is rigging elections, so I predict it’s a rigged election.”

Note: These is no evidence of widespread voter fraud in California elections. The 22 million ballots California county elections offices have sent to every registered voter are checked and verified to ensure each person only votes once and that only active, registered voters cast ballots. Officials also check to ensure the signature on each mail ballot matches the one on file with the state.

Anyway, President Biden is scheduled to speak at a Gov. Newsom rally in Long Beach tonight. It’s anybody’s guess whether he’ll boost Newsom’s numbers, but certainly, everyone on both sides of the aisle is keenly aware that it’s not just California’s governorship that is at stake here…

UPDATE: Oh come on!:

Republican Larry Elder appealed on Monday to his supporters to use an online form to report fraud, which claimed it had “detected fraud” in the “results” of the California recall election “resulting in Governor Gavin Newsom being reinstated as governor.”

The only problem: On Monday when the link was live on Elder’s campaign site, the election hadn’t even happened yet. No results had been released. And Elder was still campaigning to replace Newsom as governor.

“Statistical analyses used to detect fraud in elections held in 3rd-world nations (such as Russia, Venezuela, and Iran) have detected fraud in California resulting in Governor Gavin Newsom being reinstated as governor,” the site reads. “The primary analytical tool used was Benford’s Law and can be readily reproduced.”

The site added on Monday afternoon a disclaimer saying it was “Paid For By Larry Elder Ballot Measure Committee Recall Newsom Committee,” with major funding from Elder’s gubernatorial campaign.

–Dana

183 Responses to “GOP Candidate Leading Polls To Replace Gov. Newsom Lays Groundwork for Claims of Rigged Election (UPDATE ADDED)”

  1. Get your ballots in!

    Dana (174549)

  2. State of Disaster

    mg (8cbc69)

  3. Makes it seem like he values his ability to grift off the loss more than anything else.

    Time123 (54e6d2)

  4. This comes straight from the Trump sore loser playbook: If you are defeated it can only be because the election was rigged

    Only if history starts in 2020. If there is some alternate reality in which 2018 or 2016 existed then this comes straight from the DNC sore loser playbook. Taken together it’s starting to look like politics as usual. As sad as that is.

    frosty (f27e97)

  5. The bigger problem is that this certainly signals not just a strategy to Republicans in various elections, but also demonstrates the tactic to take if they want Trump’s support. And it certainly lays a groundwork for supporters to assume that any loss by their candidates can only be due to a rigged election. What a dangerous thing.

    Dana (174549)

  6. You know how in It’s A Wonderful Life every time a bell rings an angel gets his wings? In California, every time the word “Trump” is mentioned, a Republican politician loses a vote.

    nk (1d9030)

  7. Long Beach, CA is 7,700 miles from Kabul, Afghanistan, Joe.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  8. If Governor Newsom is recalled, when would a new governor take office?

    County elections officials have 30 days after the election to complete the official canvass. On the 38th day after the election, if the recall is successful, the Secretary of State will certify the election results, and the new governor would take the oath of office and assume the position for the remainder of the term (through January 2, 2023.

    https://www.sos.ca.gov/elections/upcoming-elections/2021-ca-gov-recall/newsom-recall-faqs#electionday

    Maybe the MSNBC idiot should ask why California doesn’t certify the election on the day of the election…

    Yeah, I know… TRUMP!!! Yearghhh!!!

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  9. Dana, part of what makes democracy work and continue is valuing the system and having faith in it. The GOP is actively destroying it with actions like this and the base doesn’t care, if not supports it as payback for imagined wrongs.

    It’s sad that such a large part of our country has so little patriotism.

    Time123 (54e6d2)

  10. Note: These is no evidence of widespread voter fraud in California elections.

    What is the exact threshold of “widespread?” More than 100 votes that are screwed up, more than 10,000? It has to be something.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  11. Elections cannot be certified the day of the election because the ballots won’t be done being counted on the day of the election.

    Furthermore, provisional ballots have to be verified and checked and a determination made as to whether to count them, and people have the right to challenge adverse counting decisions in court.

    This is normal process and procedure.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  12. This is normal process and procedure.

    Exactly.

    The MSNBC should have asked if Elder his thoughts about accepting the results after the certification. He didn’t, because OUTRAGE.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  13. Should have been “…MSNBC Clown…”

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  14. Elder should carry his own water. If he meant he will accept the certified results, but not necessarily the AP results, he should have said so.

    nk (1d9030)

  15. The question in the posted interview was whether he would accept the results tomorrow. If the interviewer asked better questions then maybe Elder would have answered differently.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  16. What is the exact threshold of “widespread?” More than 100 votes that are screwed up, more than 10,000? It has to be something.

    Widespread = Found over a large number of people or places.

    In context it also means ‘sufficient to affect the outcome of the election”

    It’s a caveat to make clear that we’re not discussing a few isolated events.

    Time123 (78eca7)

  17. Dana, part of what makes democracy work and continue is valuing the system and having faith in it. The GOP is actively destroying it with actions like this and the base doesn’t care, if not supports it as payback for imagined wrongs.

    Of course. This is a very dangerous game they’re playing. What’s amazing to me is that the GOP has learned absolutely nothing from the 60+ lawsuits thrown out by the courts re the 2020 election. Rather they continue in their determination to make Trump’s loss be because of something other than the Republican nominee himself. In Trump World, there is no such thing as admitting defeat, and there is no such thing as loss despite all the evidence to the contrary. The people who buy into this spin are not dealing in reality but rather Trump’s make-believe world.

    Dana (174549)

  18. Well, I think Mugabe won re-election with 61% in 2013. Kenyatta won in Kenya with 54% in 2017. Elections in one-party states are always suspect. At least they’ve stopped claiming 97%.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  19. I’ve added an update, and it’s a doozy:

    Republican Larry Elder appealed on Monday to his supporters to use an online form to report fraud, which claimed it had “detected fraud” in the “results” of the California recall election “resulting in Governor Gavin Newsom being reinstated as governor.”

    The only problem: On Monday when the link was live on Elder’s campaign site, the election hadn’t even happened yet. No results had been released. And Elder was still campaigning to replace Newsom as governor.

    “Statistical analyses used to detect fraud in elections held in 3rd-world nations (such as Russia, Venezuela, and Iran) have detected fraud in California resulting in Governor Gavin Newsom being reinstated as governor,” the site reads. “The primary analytical tool used was Benford’s Law and can be readily reproduced.”

    The site added on Monday afternoon a disclaimer saying it was “Paid For By Larry Elder Ballot Measure Committee Recall Newsom Committee,” with major funding from Elder’s gubernatorial campaign.

    Dana (174549)

  20. What is the exact threshold of “widespread?” More than 100 votes that are screwed up, more than 10,000? It has to be something.

    The only “fraud” I see is the state arranging things to get votes out of the less-interested voters, by making it almost hard not to vote. Generally these lean left, but not always. I am not a fan of “everyone should vote”; there should be a requirement to pay attention.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  21. The Hair-Gel Otter Gotta Go!!!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  22. Obviously, the polls aren’t trending Elder’s way. One good thing, the Democrat trial balloon of axing recalls seems to be getting rejected.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  23. Wonder how good teh harvest will be this year?

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  24. Time123 (78eca7) — 9/13/2021 @ 5:04 pm

    So it is more nuance than actual numbers.

    Either it is “widespread voter fraud“ that can change an election result or it is tolerable voter fraud that doesn’t really matter.

    BuDuh (4a7846)

  25. The other “fraud” has been the media’s obvious thumb on the scale (something prevalent in recent CA elections). Can you imaging a black Democrat candidate getting asaulted by someone in a gorilla suit and the press not running that racist attack 24/7?

    Back when I still lived there, it was fairly rare to hear news about the GOP candidates in elections, unless it was a scandal or something. Surely some of them were attacking the Democrats for their terrible handling of transportation, or density, or wasteful spending, or the homeless magnets they were building.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  26. I think Elder will do better than the polls, but he’s really not helping himself here. This election is all about turnout, and defeatism is infectious.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  27. So it is more nuance than actual numbers.

    Either it is “widespread voter fraud“ that can change an election result or it is tolerable voter fraud that doesn’t really matter.

    BuDuh (4a7846) — 9/13/2021 @ 5:30 pm

    Right, It’s meant to distinguish between the machine picking who they want to win then stuffing the ballot box and a couple of morons voting twice or filing out their dead grannies ballot.

    Both are illegal, but a dozen votes in a state aren’t changing much. And if you don’t put some caveat on it then when you say “there wasn’t any voter fraud” some troll that knows what you meant points out a single example.

    Time123 (78eca7)

  28. I’m not completely following the NBC story on Elder and the fraud link. Do they have a screenshot of the “https://stopcafraud.com/“ link on Elder’s campaign site? It is a poorly written story.

    I’m not saying it didn’t happen, but the article lacks a crucial element.

    BuDuh (a13888)

  29. What is the threshold of illegal votes for a troll to not be a troll?

    Say the margin of victory was 100,000 votes and the fraudulent votes numbered 20,000.

    Widespread or troll poop?

    BuDuh (a13888)

  30. California Dreamin’ Screamin’

    All the leaves are brown (All the leaves are brown)
    And the lawns are too (And the lawns are too)
    I’ve been for a walk (I’ve been for a walk)
    Dogsh*t on my shoe (on the sole of my shoe)
    The Otter gotta go (Otter gotta go)
    And he knows it too (And he knows it too)
    California screamin’ (California screamin’)
    We’ll do what we must do!

    Bumped into a bum
    I passed along the way
    Well, I got me a wet wipe (Got me a wet wipe)
    And I began to pray (I began to pray)
    You know some bums they spread disease (Bums spread some disease)
    Especially in L.A. (‘specially in L.A.)
    California screamin’ (California screamin’)
    We’ll do what we must do!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  31. I should point out that Elder is going to lose mainly because he has failed to move beyond his base. The number one issue that working people in L.A. have (and a main reason I left) is the TERRIBLE traffic and the lack of vision in building something better.

    Go to Elder’s campaign site and you’ll see that he hits all the hot-button Trumpist issues but not one word about transportation. Not even about incredible waste of transportation money on the Moonbeam Express. I guess he’s driven everywhere.

    I give him some points for hitting the Democrats on water and energy, but he muddles that badly with combining it with anti-environmentalism. To win in CA, you have to triangulate and he shows none of that skill.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  32. Say the margin of victory was 100,000 votes and the fraudulent votes numbered 20,000.

    If there are fraudulent votes anywhere near 20K, it’s a scandal no matter what the spread.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  33. California screamin’

    That’s pretty accurate of Elder’s campaign. Unfortunately, resentment and rage isn’t the same as new ideas going forward.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  34. Hmmm… look for “new ideas” or stanch the bleed out… tough call.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  35. I’ve added an update, and it’s a doozy:

    Talk about going off half-cocked! Talk about doofus! How did he even manage to get on the California recall ballot? And not Colorado’s, I mean.

    nk (1d9030)

  36. For days now, when I read about Elder, I remember Marion Barry’s response to Jesse Jackson’s threat to challenge him for Mayor of DC: “Jesse? Jesse can’t run a city. All Jesse can run is his mouth.”

    nk (1d9030)

  37. there will be many people, mostly democrats, voting only cuz the government sent them a ballot unsolicited

    meaning they don’t think their vote is worth the most minimal of effort as a civic duty

    this isn’t vote fraud, but can certainly be called shenanigans

    meaning, elder is right

    and anyone who thinks this is good for the body politic is only concerned with desired outcomes

    JF (e1156d)

  38. Most Californians realize our problems run much deeper than bad traffic patterns and the need for more attractive roller coasters… public pension bombs, poor public schools, lack of school choice, degradation of quality of life, punitive COVID shutdown policies just to name a few.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  39. Radio Stymie is an empty suited, dead air patent medicine peddler; Gold Medaled Trannie is sincere but sincerely creepy w/poor packaging– and the remaining crumbs are stale Reagan leftovers fit for the birdfeeder in 2021.

    The GOP had months to back and run some sane, straight, middle-aged white guy w/a velvet glove who’d vow to suspend the gas tax for 18 months on day one then bitch-slap CA back to reality.

    But no. Instead, they trot out the freak show. The CA GOP is as big a joke as the creep in office.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  40. When you’re right, you’re right, DCSCA. Myself, I wanted to say that Newsom rigged the election when he induced to people you mention in your first sentence to run against him, but it’s too close to reality to make good parody.

    nk (1d9030)

  41. to *the* people

    nk (1d9030)

  42. The GOP had months to back and run some sane, straight, middle-aged white guy w/a velvet glove who’d vow to suspend the gas tax for 18 months on day one then bitch-slap CA back to reality.

    Kiley, Cox, Faulconer are all on the ballot. I’d vote for any of them, along with Elder. Newsom has been a disaster.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  43. What “groundwork”? Elder & Co. have only produced allegations.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  44. Can any Californian explain this peculiar double election, and the thinking behind it? According to Wikipedia, the recall law was enacted in 1911 by Republican reformers:

    Following their ascension into power in 1911, California’s progressive Republican reformers introduced direct democracy via the recall (Proposition 8) and referendum (Proposition 7) processes, alongside other sweeping democratic reforms like women’s suffrage (Proposition 4),[3] to weaken the influence of private interests and restore, according to newly elected Governor Hiram Johnson, “the people’s rule”.[4] As of 2021, California is one of 19 states to allow recall elections.[5] Under state law, any elected official may be subjected to a recall.[6] To trigger a recall election of a statewide elected official, proponents must gather a certain number of signatures from registered voters within a certain time period. The number must equal at least 12 percent of the votes cast in the previous election for that office.[7][8] Based on the previous gubernatorial election, the 2021 recall petition required 1,495,709 signatures.

    But I will admit that I can’t understand the logic of combining recall with a free-for-all election. What’s the thinking behind that combination?

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  45. Only if history starts in 2020. If there is some alternate reality in which 2018 or 2016 existed then this comes straight from the DNC sore loser playbook. Taken together it’s starting to look like politics as usual. As sad as that is.

    I don’t recall any other Presidential candidate who supported challenging the results of an election in the courts, or the certification of individual states, or whose supporters sought to disrupt the certification of electoral votes.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  46. As I previously posted, nearly two-thirds of responding Republicans said it was “very/somewhat important” to their identity to accept Trump’s Big Lie.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  47. @31 Kevin M

    I still have family in Southern California.

    Most voters, they tell me, will vote for whomever promises to fix the energy infrastructure, transportation and water shortages will get a lot of cross-over votes, regardless of party.

    It’s amazing to them, and me as well, that the GOP doesn’t hit on those three.

    Yes, taxes sucks and yes, some of the weird rules that Sacramento pushes sucks. But they’re willing to deal with all that BS if someone would LEAD to address those top 3 issues.

    whembly (ae0eb5)

  48. @42. Stale Reagan crumbs. Fit for sparrows and bluejays.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  49. Rip Murdock (0aa613) — 9/13/2021 @ 7:41 pm

    As I previously posted, nearly two-thirds of responding Republicans said it was “very/somewhat important” to their identity to accept Trump’s Big Lie.

    How many Democrats believe this 1/6 “Insurrection” was equal to/worse than the events of 9/11/01 horse dung, Rip?

    If they haven’t been asked, perhaps they should be.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  50. @48… if that were true, they’d still be head and shoulders better than ANY prospective candidate Cali Dems would offer.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  51. @50. Except it is true; and none of them rate running in this century.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  52. Nobody remembers the video of Arnold getting egged on.

    Which egged him on.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  53. ……..Most voters, they tell me, will vote for whomever promises to fix the energy infrastructure, transportation and water shortages will get a lot of cross-over votes, regardless of party.
    ……….
    …… But they’re willing to deal with all that BS if someone would LEAD to address those top 3 issues.

    Not according to the polling. The PPIC poll showed the following as the top issues:

    Pandemic 21%
    Jobs/economy 12%
    Homelessness 11%
    Housing costs 7%
    Elected officials 7%

    It also found that 61% of Californians favor requiring proof of COVID vaccination for large outdoor gatherings or certain indoor spaces.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  54. @49

    Poll: 57% Of Democrats Think Trump Supporters More Dangerous Than Taliban, China And Russia

    Democrats believe Trump supporters are a more serious threat to America than the Taliban, China or Russia, according to a new poll by Scott Rasmussen.

    The poll found that 57% of Democratic registered voters believe supporters of former President Donald Trump are a “serious threat to the nation.” That compares to just 44% for the Taliban, 44% for China and 37% for Russia.

    JF (e1156d)

  55. 54… hence the us vs. them strategery of Slow Joe…

    Democrats: putting the Dem in Dementia for well over a half century…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  56. Trump is a more immediate threat to American democracy than the Taliban.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  57. We all know how “accurate” polling has been recently.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  58. @54-
    Nice thread hijacking.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  59. Larry Elder joining the recall race was the best thing that could’ve happened to Newsom
    ……….
    Elder carried with him three decades of provocative right-wing rhetoric that Newsom turned into a scary wake-up alarm for snoozing Democrats. It jarred them into voting against Newsom’s ouster out of fear that Elder would replace him as governor.
    ………
    ……… An early vote is worth more for a candidate.

    That’s because if you’ve already voted, the candidate can save money and time by not bothering to solicit your vote. The campaign can hold back on mailers, phone calls and door-knocks and redirect those dollars and volunteers to people who haven’t voted.
    ………
    “The idea of Republicans not trusting the mail, that’s crazy,” says Dave Gilliard, a veteran GOP consultant and a recall strategist. “The people who tell them not to trust the mail are just as crazy.”

    California GOP Chairwoman Jessica Millan Patterson tried to promote early drop-off of mail ballots last year even while Trump was telling Republicans that mail balloting reeked of fraud.
    ……….
    …….[A]s of the total returned ballots, 53% were from Democrats and 25% from Republicans. That’s because there are nearly twice as many Democratic voters as Republicans in California.
    ……..
    Elder advocated zero minimum wage, had disparaged women over the years, suggested that descendants of slave owners be paid reparations for loss of their ancestors’ property, opposed abortion rights — and most damaging to him, vowed to repeal state mandates on mask wearing and vaccinations for public employees and schoolteachers.
    ……….
    Elder’s candidacy was a game changer. It switched the question in voters’ minds from whether Newsom should be recalled to Newsom vs. Elder as governor.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  60. “Poll: 57% Of Democrats Think Trump Supporters More Dangerous Than Taliban, China And Russia”

    Republicans, by contrast, considered the Taliban to be the biggest threat, with 66% saying they are a serious threat.

    lol

    Davethulhu (9b9639)

  61. And with that, he submitted his time card, the basement lights were turned down low and you guess the rest…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  62. @60 you think gitmo will hold all of us?

    JF (e1156d)

  63. what

    Davethulhu (9b9639)

  64. @62-

    FEMA Camps.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  65. I agree with Dana, the GOP is taking this, all of it, the wrong way.

    https://hotair.com/allahpundit/2021/09/13/trump-does-anyone-believe-this-california-recall-election-isnt-rigged-n415564

    Gawain's Ghost (c6fd3b)

  66. “Note: These is no evidence of widespread voter fraud in California elections.”

    NOTE: no one’s actually looked all that hard for it.

    “The 22 million ballots California county elections offices have sent to every registered voter are checked and verified to ensure each person only votes once and that only active, registered voters cast ballots. Officials also check to ensure the signature on each mail ballot matches the one on file with the state.”

    ‘Checked and verified’ by whom? By which officials? Are you confident in the passive voice and the unnamed actor? Has a California election ever been audited?

    “The bigger problem is that this certainly signals not just a strategy to Republicans in various elections, but also demonstrates the tactic to take if they want Trump’s support. And it certainly lays a groundwork for supporters to assume that any loss by their candidates can only be due to a rigged election. What a dangerous thing.”

    Voting has always been a proxy for avoiding violence by counting heads instead of having the heads take up arms. But if you can’t trust the counters due to them having been employed by one side for too long, the most prudent thing to do would be to see exactly how many armed fighters for your side actually show up when called.

    Ballot Harvestperson (980e33)

  67. @47 I still have family in Southern California.

    Call Antony; the State Department will get them out.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  68. The voters in Cantafordya are whats fraudulent.

    mg (8cbc69)

  69. I heard a claim yesterday on talk radio – I think the successor to Rush Limbaugh – it was either on WOR or WABC sometime after noon – that people coming into vote in person in Orange County were being told they had already voted – at least one woman cast an affidavit ballot and sad she was told that other people were reporting that problem.

    hat is either happening or not happening.

    There is a problem when mail ballots take priority

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  70. Rip Murdock (0aa613) — 9/13/2021 @ 8:29 pm

    Elder’s candidacy was a game changer. It switched the question in voters’ minds from whether Newsom should be recalled to Newsom vs. Elder as governor.

    And Newsom saturated the airwaves with ads. ”There are no campaign contribution limits in recall fights.

    Elder needs, r needed, to argue that even if he would be a worse governor than Newsom he should be elected, in order to shake things up. But it’s not something anyone is likely to do.
    ………

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  71. 62- They won’t be taking me. I have fighting to the death in my bones. Voters of worse than Trump are in love with the chicoms.

    mg (8cbc69)

  72. What is the threshold of illegal votes for a troll to not be a troll?

    Say the margin of victory was 100,000 votes and the fraudulent votes numbered 20,000.

    Widespread or troll poop?

    BuDuh (a13888) — 9/13/2021 @ 6:03 pm

    20,000 would be a huge number. Astronomical in a single state. If it was an error it would be massive. If it was Intentional it would require a number of people to pull of and hid. Largest issue (wasn’t fraud) I know of from 2020 was several hundred in windham NH. That was caused paper folding machine, very optical scanners and bad luck.

    But I think looking at context of the whole election is a good first question to ask.

    Time123 (54e6d2)

  73. “Poll: 57% Of Democrats Think Trump Supporters More Dangerous Than Taliban, China And Russia”

    Republicans, by contrast, considered the Taliban to be the biggest threat, with 66% saying they are a serious threat.

    The Democrats are as wrong as they can be, and Republicans get it absolutely right. The Taliban won two wars in succession against the Soviet Union and the United States. Trump supporters cannot even win an election against Joe Biden.

    nk (1d9030)

  74. Elder needs, r needed, to argue that even if he would be a worse governor than Newsom he should be elected, in order to shake things up. But it’s not something anyone is likely to do.

    Of the top tier recall candidates, Elder wrote his own opposition campaign commercials. His record of controversial statements (the norm for a radio talk show host) came back to bite him, and rather than disown them, he doubled down on them. While the base found that admirable (no campaign conversions for Elder), it isn’t how politicians succeed. And given the composition of the California electorate (51% women) his comments were easily exploited.

    He never explained how he would implement his policies facing a Democratic legislative supermajority, and his signature issue (repealing COVID-19 mandates) was in direct opposition to what polls show is the number one concern of voters. If the pandemic is the #1 issue of the electorate, you don’t propose to turn California into Texas or Florida.

    A far better candidate would have been Kevin Faulconer. Without Elder, he could have made the case against Newsom, and probably attracted moderate Democratic voters. He knows as a former mayor what are the problems of local communities, and has dealt first hand with homelessness, crime, housing, and development. He isn’t from the Trump wing of the Republican Party, and unlike Elder, there are no known photos of Trump and Faulconer giving the thumbs up sign while in black tie.

    Newsom is up for re-election next year. Elder said he may run in 2022, and he could easily come in second in the jungle primary, in which case the general election will be a repeat of this election, and Elder would probably lose. If however Faulconer came in second, he could give Newsom a run for his money. But Faulconer is unlikely to pass the Trump fealty test in the California Republican Party.

    Rip Murdock (0aa613)

  75. 74. nk (1d9030) — 9/14/2021 @ 4:23 am

    he Taliban won two wars in succession against the Soviet Union and the United States.

    Not the Taliban.

    Pakistan, or rather, its rogue military intelligence agency or possibly a clique within it.

    https://www.voanews.com/us-afghanistan-troop-withdrawal/win-pakistan

    Zakir’s pick as defense minister is being cited as another example of how the Taliban’s seizure of power in Afghanistan is for Pakistan a geopolitical victory. Pakistan’s ISI trained Taliban founder Mullah Omar during the war against Russia in the 1980s and he was treated in Pakistan for wounds he sustained on the battlefield.

    India’s former Ambassador to Kabul, Gautam Mukhopadhaya, dubbed Monday the Taliban’s victory a “Pakistani invasion with an Afghan face.”

    “Pakistan has long played a critical, yet confusing role in Afghanistan,” according to Muhammad Nadeem Malik, a professor at Australia’s University of Melbourne. “It has been one of the strongest U.S. allies in its ‘war on terror,’ yet it has also covertly backed the Taliban in its fight against U.S.-led forces for years,” he added in a commentary for The Conversation, an online discussion platform.

    He notes that in 2014 General Hamid Gul, a former ISI head, told a television audience that Pakistan had even used US aid to continue funding the Taliban after the September 11 terror attacks. “When history is written, it will be stated that the ISI defeated the Soviet Union in Afghanistan with the help of America. Then there will be another sentence. The ISI, with the help of America, defeated America,” Gul bragged.

    The Taliban are nothing by themselves.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  76. 75. Rip Murdock (0aa613) — 9/14/2021 @ 4:51 am

    . But Faulconer is unlikely to pass the Trump fealty test in the California Republican Party.

    It’s a jungle primary.

    But maybe there are too many Republicans. There may be too few to win but too many for any opposition to coalesce around anything else.

    The Democratic Party may need the Republican Party. In the range it is in.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  77. This comes straight from the Trump sore loser playbook

    Name calling has become the new standard in politics.

    At El Camino Real Charter High School in Woodland Hills, some voters say they were told the computers showed them as already having voted, even though they had not.
    https://ktla.com/news/local-news/san-fernando-valley-residents-have-trouble-casting-recall-ballots/

    BillPasadena (5b0401)

  78. Gavin “the Otter” Newsom mentions Trump 8 times in his latest… not one Otter supporter has talked of any positive accomplishments of the slickly groomed administration.

    Folks who have perused their ballot searching for the Trump name have been unable to find it. It appears Trump’s not running for Governor in California.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  79. BillPasadena (5b0401) — 9/14/2021 @ 7:44 am

    Name calling has become the new standard in politics.

    I don’t think it’s new. There are just new names. It’s like 1st Baptists and Primitive Baptists slinging mud and ignoring the Methodists observing from a safe distance.

    frosty (f27e97)

  80. Gee… a premature post-election analysis as offered by a hard-shell partisan…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  81. This comes straight from the Trump sore loser playbook

    Name calling has become the new standard in politics.

    Is this name calling or simply a very accurate description of Trump’s reaction to losing the election? To reduce it to “name calling” is a way to ignore his behavior yet be offended by fitting criticism.

    Dana (174549)

  82. I’d like to get Lyin’ Ted’s, Sleepy Joe’s, Liddle’ Adam’s, and Horseface Stormy’s opinions on that, Dana.

    nk (1d9030)

  83. “The 22 million ballots California county elections offices have sent to every registered voter are checked and verified to ensure each person only votes once and that only active, registered voters cast ballots. Officials also check to ensure the signature on each mail ballot matches the one on file with the state.”

    ‘Checked and verified’ by whom? By which officials? Are you confident in the passive voice and the unnamed actor?

    That part is probably checked by any number of people. All that that means is that there is only one alleged vote cast from any eligible voter. Mail-in ballots take priority over votes cast in person by affidavit ballot. (That’s the usual. Without that, it takes days to get results. They may have changed to that method in New York in a law passed in Governor Cuomo’s last year because I know Cuomoand thers wanted to do that.)

    More problematical is the signature match (which still could catch any ballot where the person who stole the ballot (maybe from the garbage) doesn’t know what the signature is supposed to look like. Also problematical is somebody else in contact with the voter filling out the ballot, or doing that in a group home.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  84. 75. Rip Murdock (0aa613) — 9/14/2021 @ 4:51 am

    If the pandemic is the #1 issue of the electorate, you don’t propose to turn California into Texas or Florida.

    Or Arizona.

    Larry Ekder was asked if Stephen Miller, who is opart of his campaign, would be part of his administration. He didn;t answer the question saying only, more than once, that Stephen Miller is not part of this election

    He said the election was about crime and homelessness (toleration of homeless encampments I think he means.

    Come to think of it, he didn’t mention Covid in that interview excerpt.

    A far better candidate would have been Kevin Faulconer.

    I had no idea who Kevin Faulconer is. Exceot you tell me he is a former mayor and give a general description of where he stands in the political spectrum, He;s apparently one of the candidates.

    https://calmatters.org/projects/newsom-recall-candidates-kevin-faulconer/

    https://www.kevinfaulconer.com

    People could vote for him. (that can’t be a website from 2018)

    Except that in this first past the post replacement election, he’s not likely to come out on top. Larry Elder is more well known, and Gavin Newsom is doing his best to make sure that he becomes even more well known.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  85. Also problematical is somebody else in contact with the voter filling out the ballot, or doing that in a group home.

    It’s an early harvest in California…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  86. He said the election was about crime and homelessness (toleration of homeless encampments I think he means.

    Some Californians take issue with the very large sum of money spent to ameliorate homelessness that has done anything but.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  87. “The Taliban are nothing by themselves.”

    Much like Joe Biden, come to think of it. Though nk naturally prefers to avoid such obvious comparisons.

    “More problematical is the signature match (which still could catch any ballot where the person who stole the ballot (maybe from the garbage) doesn’t know what the signature is supposed to look like. Also problematical is somebody else in contact with the voter filling out the ballot, or doing that in a group home.”

    If you keep going, you might discover a clue to how 2020 went down, though sadly the relevant evidence in the relevant districts has already been destroyed prematurely.

    The L curve (7dad5e)

  88. It didn’t happen – you need to have voters complaining – and/or many voters whose votes were stolen identified.

    The issue in Pennsylvania was the State Supreme Court changing election law, not skillful cheating.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  89. Regarding Dana’s update, the Daily Beast titled it well: “Larry Elder Preemptively Concedes Defeat, Launches Voter-Fraud Site”
    In semi-related news, the Philly Inquirer isn’t calling whatever the CyberNinjas are doing a “forensic audit”.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  90. the liberal rags
    are way far into The Bag
    and deep in their cups

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  91. Rip Murdock (0aa613) — 9/13/2021 @ 8:09 pm

    Actual leaders frame the issues for the voters. Mere politicians follow the issues that someone else framed. Having lived in L.A. for years you cannot tell me that traffic isn’t an issue. It may be that the folks there have just given up on it, given that the politicians show little interest in fixing things. But the money spent on the Moonbeam Express would have built several hundred miles of subway and light rail. If anyone cared enough to lead.

    As for homelessness, the way to reduce it is to stop “helping” the homeless.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  92. If history is any guide, the GOP’s efforts to prove electoral malfeasance will crash and burn, but they will be successful at further undermining the integrity of our electoral system. Yay.

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  93. Democrats believe Trump supporters are a more serious threat to America than the Taliban, China or Russia, according to a new poll by Scott Rasmussen.

    And most Trump supporters believe the same of the Left. The Othering of America continues apace. Just think what would happen if airlines attacked each other with the viciousness that the political parties do.

    American Airlines: “Delta is a short trip to a fiery death!”
    Delta: “Yet another American crash! When will travelers learn?”

    No one would get into a plane again.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  94. As I have said, ad nauseum, the way to test for fraud in CA elections is to pick a small county with large numbers of non-citizens and a one-party governing clique. Imperial County, for example. Then audit that county’s votes in detail. IF you find no fraud there, there is no fraud anywhere. And vice versa.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  95. But Faulconer is unlikely to pass the Trump fealty test in the California Republican Party.

    See my many previous comments on what will eventually save the GOP.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  96. ‘Checked and verified’ by whom? By which officials?

    Signature verification is a known problem and has led to high false negative rates.

    See here for the general issue and here for a story about 21,000 disqualified ballots — from before the 2020 election (Los Angeles Times).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  97. As for homelessness, here is an article on the local park near where I used to live, and what the very hard left local councilman is doing to help his pets.

    See picture.

    Obviously, the park is unusable by residents anymore. I’ve seen this happen before (in Santa Monica), and there the very liberal townsfolk eventually had enough and threw out the elected officials who had filled their parks with the homeless. The people they replaced them with drew up draconian anti-camping laws, outlawed RV overnight parking, etc. You can even get many liberals to see sense when the lies they are told get parked next door.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  98. >The only “fraud” I see is the state arranging things to get votes out of the less-interested voters, by making it almost hard not to vote

    my assembly district just had an election, using these *same rules* (everyone gets mailed a ballot) with a total turnout off 26.93%.

    so people clearly can ignore elections even under the current rules.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  99. At El Camino Real Charter High School in Woodland Hills, some voters say they were told the computers showed them as already having voted, even though they had not.

    BillPasadena (5b0401) — 9/14/2021 @ 7:44 am

    Saw the story. What’s interesting in an on-air interview some voters turned down the opportunity to vote a provisional ballot. From your link:

    ……..
    The Los Angeles County Registrar-Recorder’s office said in a statement that there were issues with the settings on devices used to check in voters prior to voting.

    “After troubleshooting the issue, the equipment at the locations was replaced and voting continued,” a spokesman for the office said.

    The spokesman noted that provisional ballots were issued and that they are a “failsafe option” to ensure that everyone’s votes are counted.

    “Once the eligibility of the voter is verified, [the ballots] are processed and counted,” the statement added.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  100. > 61% of Californians favor requiring proof of COVID vaccination for large outdoor gatherings or certain indoor spaces.

    Yes. The anti-mandate policies of the republican candidates poll well among their base but are widely rejected by Californians and are probably the biggest reason the recall is going to fail.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  101. @93 electoral malfeasance is the sequel to russia collusion, which got rave reviews in some parts

    JF (e1156d)

  102. #77-Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 9/14/2021 @ 6:14 am

    I mentioned the jungle primary in my post.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  103. > Democrats believe Trump supporters are a more serious threat to America than the Taliban, China or Russia, according to a new poll by Scott Rasmussen.

    That doesn’t surprise me. Trump supporters pretty much uniformly support a baseless claim that an election was stolen, and this is making many on the other side concerned that, given the chance, they will reject legitimate election outcomes based on that baseless claim.

    This is a real, present, serious threat to the republic. The threats posed by China and Russia are more long term — although I think there’s a real possibility that the widespread support for the baseless claim are in part a result of psyops by one or both hostile powers.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  104. Well, that should make JF happy, at least, Rip. What else could the county have reasonably done to make it harder for those people to vote? Made them go out and buy their own pens to fill out the provisional ballot with? (No, we cannot mine school paths!)

    nk (1d9030)

  105. Colonel Haiku, at 57: polls of California haven’t been showing the wide misses seen in other states.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  106. Democrats fear the unvaccinated (#1) and COVID (#2)… they skeered…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  107. after the conclusion of the pilot program I linked to in 108, doing these audits regularly was written into the state election code and it’s now sandard process.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  108. > probably attracted moderate Democratic voters.

    among moderate Democrats, Faulconer is the default vote for question 2.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  109. > But Faulconer is unlikely to pass the Trump fealty test in the California Republican Party.

    Statewide republicans have a problem in that anyone who could pass the fealty test cannot win a general statewide election.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  110. @105 who goes to a school to vote? that’s so 2016

    JF (e1156d)

  111. Statewide republicans have a problem in that anyone who could pass the fealty test cannot win a general statewide election.

    And that is a good thing for the state because they would not be competent to hold the office.

    nk (1d9030)

  112. aphrael, they’d rather be right than win.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  113. And that is a good thing for the state because they would not be competent to hold the office.

    And the machine candidate is?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  114. @104 those trump supporting marines were a “real, present, serious threat”

    thanks, mr. taliban

    JF (e1156d)

  115. There are places in the Western world where voting is mandatory and eligible voters who do not have a “voted” stamp from the last election do not get their drivers licenses renewed. And to answer your next question, they show up and cast a blank or spoiled ballot.

    nk (1d9030)

  116. The stopcafraud website says:

    > Statistical analyses used to detect fraud in elections held in 3rd-world nations (such as Russia, Venezuela, and Iran) have detected fraud in California resulting in Governor Gavin Newsom being reinstated as governor

    Since no results have been reported, this is an outright lie. What possible legitimate justification is there for this?

    aphrael (4c4719)

  117. > Statistical analyses used to detect fraud in elections held in 3rd-world nations (such as Russia, Venezuela, and Iran) have detected fraud in California resulting in Governor Gavin Newsom being reinstated as governor

    Since no results have been reported, this is an outright lie. What possible legitimate justification is there for this?

    There is nothing like getting ahead of the curve.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  118. See what I mean about competent? Huh? Huh? This loser prepared his “rigged election” shtick in advance and then … and then! … gave the game away when he pulled the pin before the election even took place!

    nk (1d9030)

  119. Just keep supporting AOC and the leftist glitterati as they keep creating laws for you and me that they have no intention on following themselves.

    They really think the real world is the Hunger Games.

    NJRob (00ff7f)

  120. OT, but – if true – this is one indication of the caliber of person we have at the top of OUR armed forces…

    Top general was so fearful Trump might spark war that he made secret calls to his Chinese counterpart, new book says

    “General Li, I want to assure you that the American government is stable and everything is going to be okay,” Milley told him. “We are not going to attack or conduct any kinetic operations against you.”
    In the book’s account, Milley went so far as to pledge he would alert his counterpart in the event of a U.S. attack, stressing the rapport they’d established through a backchannel. “General Li, you and I have known each other for now five years. If we’re going to attack, I’m going to call you ahead of time. It’s not going to be a surprise.”

    https://web.archive.org/web/20210914170254/https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/09/14/peril-woodward-costa-trump-milley-china/

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  121. That fellow should be sitting on his couch in Ft. Lauderdale eating General Tso’s Chicken

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  122. @122 trump supporters are the bigger threat, Col

    JF (e1156d)

  123. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/14/2021 @ 11:23 am

    If you are talking about Milley and that account is true it sounds more like espionage if not treason.

    frosty (f27e97)

  124. Oh… man…

    RIP Norm MacDonald

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  125. If you are talking about Milley and that account is true it sounds more like espionage if not treason.

    It’s neither.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  126. If you are talking about Milley and that account is true it sounds more like espionage if not treason.

    Why?

    Paul Montagu (5de684)

  127. RIP Norm MacDonald (61). Cancer.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  128. C’mon, Frosty! That’s normal behavior for the JCS… context… nuance…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  129. RIP Norm Macdonald

    But did he mail in his recall ballot?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  130. The Los Angeles County Registrar-Recorder’s office said in a statement that there were issues with the settings on devices used to check in voters prior to voting.

    They were incorrectly marked as having been signed in already. It thus had nothing to do with somebody voting absentee or early. But get updates.

    I would guess that when the problem was explained to them that way, with a promise it would be resolved soon, some voters preferred to wait and/or come back later, to vote in the regular way so as to be more sure their vote would be counted.

    Once it is mixed in with other ballots, it has to be counted.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  131. RIP Michael Constantine, 94

    ‘The Hustler’; ‘Room 222′… the name to go with a face you know.

    RIP Adlai Stevenson III, former U.S. senator, 90

    Ask Pop if Hell’s ever froze over.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  132. Larry Ekder (sic) was asked if Stephen Miller, who is opart (sic) of his campaign, would be part of his administration. He didn;t answer the question saying only, more than once, that Stephen Miller is not part of this election

    Elder has been a long time mentor to Miller ever since Miller appeared on his radio show while in high school.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  133. In the book’s account, Milley went so far as to pledge he would alert his counterpart in the event of a U.S. attack, stressing the rapport they’d established through a backchannel. “General Li, you and I have known each other for now five years. If we’re going to attack, I’m going to call you ahead of time. It’s not going to be a surprise.”

    Milley’s White Rage: he won’t shoot until he see’s the whites of their eyes?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  134. 125. It sounds more like paranoia…about Trump. Possibly just fear of how orders might be misconstrued.

    Fear of a nuclear war stating can get people to do unusual things.

    So he calls up his Chinese counterpart and says we are not going to attack, and if we are, I’ll tell you.

    How come then he didn’t call up any Russian generals?

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  135. Because Trump would never attack Russia, or talk about it, but he was very anti-China at that point?

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  136. “my assembly district just had an election, using these *same rules* (everyone gets mailed a ballot) with a total turnout off 26.93%.

    so people clearly can ignore elections even under the current rules.”

    Or maybe your boroughs are rotten. Or not updated. Or filled with people who don’t speak English. Or maybe the people running the fraud are smart enough not to add more dummy voters than they need. You haven’t convinced me that leaving massive fraud avenues open is A-OK just because ‘public data’ indicates that maybe people didn’t take advantage of them this time. In any case I hear that most of the Cali Republican wins last cycle were due to ballot harvesting just as hard as the Dems in counties they controlled, which is not what you call a high-integrity strategy.

    “Since no results have been reported, this is an outright lie. What possible legitimate justification is there for this?”

    Same as the justification for the news media running dummy stories on the death of politicians and celebrities and filling in the details later. You know it’s going to happen eventually, especially if people have gotten away with it before to no serious court challenges.

    Also, around 70-80% of California counties are using Dominion ImageCast Central 5.10A as their tabulation system (and these results are ‘centrally tabulated’) so you can be highly predictive of their likely shenanigans based on their previously installed infraudstructure.

    “they would not be competent to hold the office.”

    Letting lawyers, bureaucrats, and administrators determine ‘competency’ leads directly to the administrative state we all know and hate, and concurrently to all official ‘experts’ being selected or browbeaten into positions that help the administrative state. This is why you call Ivermectin HORSE MEDICINE LOL, which is the type of aggressive public science ignorance that should be an automatic public office disqualification for anyone who utters it.

    Until such time as you show any effective action or attitude to curb administrative state abuses, your jurisdiction ends where my disapproval begins, ‘lost confidence in the system’ be dayumed. You do not deserve any of the automatic trust, good order, and discipline you demand, and Gavin Newsom deserves to be removed from office for his offenses against liberty as much by an angry mob as a public process.

    Election Plan Truster (0cabfa)

  137. @126. Last laugh: the ‘obits’ are labelling Macdonald’s comedy style ‘deadpan.’

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  138. The Newsom Weinstein Connection Thread PART 1 – Jennifer Siebel Newsom’s sister is married to a partner at Boies Schiller law firm – Joshua Erwin Schiller.

    The Newsom Weinstein Connection Thread PART 2 – Rose McGowan thinks Jennifer Siebel Newsom wants to speak with her about supporting women directors in Hollywood. They agree to meet. Rose sees through Jennifer’s false gesture and leaves.

    The Newsom Weinstein Connection Thread PART 3 – Shortly after Rose cancelled meeting Jennifer Siebel Newsom (Gavin Newsom’s wife), Jennifer called Rose McGowan directly (a Harvey Weinstein SA victim) and asked, “WHAT COULD BOIES SCHILLER DO TO MAKE YOU HAPPY?”

    The Newsom Weinstein Connection Thread PART 4 – After Weinstein was exposed publicly, Jennifer Siebel Newsom got into a Weinstein victims only group. In the email she admits to having made the phone call to Rose but changes ‘happy’ to ‘heal’. Can you spot the manipulation?

    https://mobile.twitter.com/rosemcgowan/status/1437185918499123202

    JF (e1156d)

  139. Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 9/14/2021 @ 12:04 pm

    Fear of a nuclear war stating can get people to do unusual things.

    This is an example of irrationality in the extreme. There were no grounds for any fear of a nuclear war. Milley better than anyone should know that and not be susceptible to that fear.

    frosty (f27e97)

  140. Everybody could use a laugh, no? Norm in a great sketch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNzNeGw8Fmo

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  141. Here’s the problem in California in a nutshell: on top of inflation, fires and all the other ills the governor and state legislature fail to address; on top of the gasoline tax raised to 51 cents a gallon… yesterday, got my CA electric/gas bill. Guess what: they’ve requested another rate increase to be come effective January, 2022.

    For residential, they’ve asked for a 17.6% increase. Small commercial: 19.3% increase, etc., etc., but golly, no increase for gas… they already did that a few months ago. This from a statewide utility w/no competition that is one of the worst service providers with record profits that spends little on maintenance and causes fires. In all the places I’ve lived around the world, never experience a worst utility provider. A little wind- they cut power, Some rain– they cut power. This is why people are leaving. Hell, even in Britain, when they had strikes and ‘brown outs’ they managed to keep the gas and electric flowing at a trickle.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  142. 123, I’m sure he already is friendly with a chicken named General Tso.

    Avenge Norm Macdonald!

    urbanleftbehind (17831d)

  143. @142. Lucy wasn’t funny either.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  144. > You haven’t convinced me

    I wasn’t trying to convince you of anything. I was pointing out to Kevin M that he’s wrong that it’s difficult for people to not vote under the current system.

    > You know it’s going to happen eventually,

    Asserting that you’ve run a statistical analysis which proves fraud, when you haven’t, is a dangerous lie that undermines the legitimacy of the system. The inevitable effect is to undermine the stability of the system and encourage public support for abandoning democracy (why bother having elections when they’re rigged anyway), and to make it impossible for any *accurate* measurement of the vote to be trusted.

    It’s the biggest threat to our system in my lifetime.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  145. Just think what would happen if airlines attacked each other with the viciousness that the political parties do.

    American Airlines: “Delta is a short trip to a fiery death!”
    Delta: “Yet another American crash! When will travelers learn?”

    Fly Air Canada.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  146. although I think there’s a real possibility that the widespread support for the baseless claim are in part a result of psyops by one or both hostile powers.
    aphrael (4c4719) — 9/14/2021 @ 10:13 am

    shades of the 2016 collusion lie

    you have no proof for your baseless claim either

    JF (e1156d)

  147. JF (e1156d) — 9/14/2021 @ 12:54 pm

    faith doesn’t require proof

    frosty (f27e97)

  148. @122. Milley called America’s bankers, that’s all.

    He’s quite the drama queen.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  149. JF,

    Of course I have no proof! By its very nature this is the sort of thing that could only be proven by extensive investigation that nobody is doing!

    That said, I think you are reacting as though I had said something I haven’t. I am specifically *not* alleging that Trump, Elder, or anyone else is working with the Russians or Chinese. I don’t think they are, so I wouldn’t say that — the worst I can say of them is I think they are cynically lying for their own perceived benefit (Elder) or are unable to distinguish fact from fantasy (Trump). I don’t think they or anyone else involved in their campaigns is working with an external power.

    But I think it is *highly likely* that an external power hostile to the US is involved in encouraging — through manipulation of social media networks — the growth of the belief that elections are being stolen. Without collusion.

    Both China and Russia strenuously object to the current international order, which is largely American dominated and American led, and Russian political culture in particular has long been dominated by a real paranoia about foreign powers attacking them (justified by a brutal history of that being done to them, and underwritten by a lingering cultural memory of the Mongols). This paranoia, combined with the way the US dominates the system, causes them to view the US as a massive existential threat. If they can undermine our stability by spending a small amount of money to encourage the spread of beliefs that deligitimize the system, their government would be *derelict in its duty* if it didn’t at least try. And hey, their government is *run by a dude who used to run the secret service* — meaning he’s familiar with and skilled in manipulating populations!

    Note that I don’t think their goal here is to promote any particular political party, it’s to promote *instability*.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  150. Perhaps the Russkies and the ChiComs should back off and leave the malevolent attempts at messing with our elections le
    to Democrats, as it was done in the olden times… 2000… 2004… 2012… 2016…

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  151. Synchronizing parody and reality, here’s the recall election in one perfect tweet.

    lurker (59504c)

  152. OMG… even war hero Lt. Colonel Bearclaw Vindman is outraged by Thoroughly Descredited Milley…

    http://ace.mu.nu/archives/vindmansaysmilleymustresign.png

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  153. The 22 million ballots California county elections offices have sent to every registered voter are checked and verified to ensure each person only votes once and that only active, registered voters cast ballots. Officials also check to ensure the signature on each mail ballot matches the one on file with the state.

    Stipulate that, nonce. It might not be true, but let’s suppose that it is.

    Now consider the way “harvesting” of mail ballots, as described TWENTY YEARS AGO ( https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/absentee-minded-6391500 ) operates. A “broker”
    follows the mail carrier around and “assists” a voter in making choices. Then, armed
    with the fore-knowledge of how voters on the mail route voted …
    (from that linked article: )

    ” … the broker goes to [a candidate’s campaign] with 1,500 ballots,” she whispers. “He says, ‘These votes are for you. I want $3 apiece for them.’ [They] says no. So he takes them to the other candidate. ‘These votes are for [that candidate] I want $3 apiece for them.’ If the other candidate pays, the broker throws the ballots away.”

    Valid ballots are sent to valid registered voters and the ones returned have valid signatures, right? And other valid ballots to valid voters simply get lost or just delayed in the mail. So maybe “fraud” isn’t the right word, but teach me another.

    The general process of mailing ballots out of the control of election officials and into the wilds of union halls, churches, nursing homes, etc is an invitation to corruption — for ANY organized community. We have registration, and ballot serial numbers, and polling places, signature verification, and trained sworn workers, for REASONS. Reasons the news is not discussing except to describe as “voter suppression.”

    Do you really want some hard-core televangelist anti-abortion zealot preaching a month before elections to impose a religious duty upon the congregation to bring the ballots — received in the mail — to the sanctuary the Sunday morning during the early voting week so a deacon overseer in each pew can “assist” congregant voters to ensure that only anti-abortion candidates and measures are represented on ballots mailed back?

    Do you want the Jimmy Hoffa style intimidating union boss making similar demands of his union members?

    Or are you okay with a “broker” just filtering ballots, by candidate, in favor of the highest bidder?

    How do you suppose ballot-by-mail processes should be modified (or HAVE been modified, in the past twenty years) to avoid such risks?

    And do you argue that states that implemented/improvised vote-by-mail process in the last few months of the Covid crisis, before the 2020 election, really anticipated all the potential problems of ballot integrity and solved them, first try?

    pouncer (6c33cf)

  154. Here’s yer coup, 1/6 quimbies… http://ace.mu.nu/archives/holdenalotclosertoacoup.png

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  155. As little money as possible is spent to hold elections. How much do you want your taxes to go up to pay for elections that are secure and don’t disenfranchise any legal voters?

    asset (138256)

  156. So you didn’t want miley from preventing trump from starting a nuclear war?

    asset (138256)

  157. James Schlesinger, Nixon’s Secretary of Defense during the Administration’s dénouement, did something similar:

    In the days leading up to Nixon’s resignation in August 1974, Mr. Schlesinger, as he confirmed years later, became so worried that Nixon was unstable that he instructed the military not to react to White House orders, particularly on nuclear arms, unless cleared by him or Secretary of State Henry A. Kissinger. He also drew up plans to deploy troops in Washington in the event of any problems with a peaceful presidential succession.

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  158. Thats rich Vindman accusing Milley of what he did. Lowest Point hasn’t reached the bottom, yet.

    mg (8cbc69)

  159. Hear that knocking?
    John Kerry at the door to replace Blinken.

    mg (8cbc69)

  160. So you didn’t want miley from preventing trump from starting a nuclear war?

    Drama queenitis is the latest epidemic craze. Quick whip up a vaccine! 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  161. @161. That’s one way to get a government jet.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  162. Big difference between the civilian Secretary of Defense and a brasshole general going full white raged rogue a la James Mattoon Scott.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  163. ^@159.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  164. Local San Diego news- White Rage: ‘one in four in San Diego County are “Latino”‘– the percentage whioch are legal vs., illegal– unknown.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  165. Blinken just said that several thousand green card holders are stranded in Afghanistan.
    Worse than Trump voters have created an epidemic.

    mg (8cbc69)

  166. @167. Greenbacks, too— he’s ‘hostage’ to giving them $64 million in aid… cherry on the Friday to ‘Sundae’ collapse. 13 dead Americans aren’t even cols in their graves.

    And the Royalists wonder why the pitchforkers want to torch the podiumhuggers.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  167. Ol’Joe in Long Beach.. he’s looking very, very gramps lately…. his sport coat clearly too big and baggy for his stoop shouldered stance.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  168. Otter gotta go!

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  169. Your compassion does you credit, mg.

    mg (1d9030)

  170. Your compassion does you credit, mg.

    mg (1d9030) — 9/14/2021 @ 3:08 pm

    That was me, nk. Not mg. I typed the wrong thing in the wrong box.

    nk (1d9030)

  171. OT, but – if true – this is one indication of the caliber of person we have at the top of OUR armed forces…

    You misspelled “had”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  172. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 9/14/2021 @ 2:07 pm

    Actually, from what you quoted, those aren’t similar things at all.

    frosty (f27e97)

  173. polls of California haven’t been showing the wide misses seen in other states.

    Maybe they’ve gotten better. Maybe they’ve gotten luckier. Back when the GOP was competitive (yes, I’m that old), they routinely overstated Democrat chances.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  174. I was pointing out to Kevin M that he’s wrong that it’s difficult for people to not vote under the current system.

    Perhaps I underestimated their capacity for sloth. This might explain all the “Newsom’s going to win, don’t bother voting GOPers” articles the past few weeks. There’s an ennui gap.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  175. It must be tough being held accountable for worse than Trump.

    mg (8cbc69)

  176. “I typed the wrong thing in the wrong box.”

    What led you to this moronic self-own? Strike that… poorly phrased…

    what prompted said action? To what end?

    Colonel Haiku (ac2a78)

  177. @125

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 9/14/2021 @ 11:23 am

    If you are talking about Milley and that account is true it sounds more like espionage if not treason.

    frosty (f27e97) — 9/14/2021 @ 11:36 am

    frosty… this is a real coup and even a literal insurrectiony.

    @160

    Thats rich Vindman accusing Milley of what he did. Lowest Point hasn’t reached the bottom, yet.

    mg (8cbc69) — 9/14/2021 @ 2:08 pm

    eh… the point is even Vindman is pointing this out.

    whembly (e2380c)

  178. If it’s true… perhaps we’ll know within the next 48 hours.

    Colonel Haiku (2601c0)

  179. Thats rich Vindman accusing Milley of what he did

    It isn’t the same thing at all. Vindman just reported what he heard, and he went through an established procedure in doing so. Trumpers call him a “traitor” because they believe he should have been personally, unconditionally loyal to Trump, no matter what.

    Milley’s action, as recounted by Woodward, looks like it could be a case of circumventing chain of command when it comes to directing action — which is a very different matter.

    I’m not qualified to pronounce on its appropriateness, but I can say that Milley’s action (insofar as the details are known) is drawing raised eyebrows from people who are highly critical of Trump and who believe that Vindman did nothing wrong.

    The distinctions are lost on the people who believe that whatever is unfavorable to Trump must be bad — and also on some people who believe that whatever is unfavorable to Trump must be good.

    Radegunda (d769df)

  180. asset (138256) — 9/14/2021 @ 1:50 pm

    So you didn’t want miley from preventing trump from starting a nuclear war?

    I’m not going to play into that delusion. There was no threat of nuclear war. There was no justification for a US general having “back channel” communications with a Chinese general or to pledge to “warn” them of impending kinetic operations.

    frosty (f27e97)

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