Biden Administration Continues to Muddle Their Afghanistan Message
[guest post by JVW]
Can anyone tell us what is going on here?
Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin said that the U.S. will continue to evacuate all the Americans “they can” from Afghanistan, although the U.S. is currently unable to “go out and collect large numbers of people” from outside the Kabul airport.
“It’s obvious we’re not close to where we want to be,” Austin said at a press conference at the Pentagon. “We’re gonna get everyone that we can possibly evacuate, evacuated and I’ll do that as long as we possibly can, until the clock runs out, or we run out of capability.”
Austin admitted that U.S. capabilities to venture outside the airport are already limited, however. “I don’t have the capability to go out and extend operations currently into Kabul,” explained the defense secretary.
Americans attempting to reach the Kabul airport must cross through Taliban-operated checkpoints. While Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley said the Taliban “are facilitating the safe passage to the airport for American citizens,” the State Department has accused the Taliban of blocking Afghans eligible for special visas to the U.S. from arriving at the airport.
This past Sunday, Secretary of State Anthony Blinken declared that the United States would prioritize safely evacuating embassy workers. According to reports, they have largely been relocated to the airport where they set up operations, presumably safe behind the small contingent of U.S. forces which remains in Kabul. But this says nothing about the 5,000 to 10,000 additional U.S. citizens stuck in Kabul, who have now rather shamefully been informed that they need to make their own way to the airport, though there will be no security presence along that dangerous Taliban-controlled route to maintain their safety.
This is more and more clearly sounding like a colossal SNAFU by the Biden Administration. Why we would remove our troops before we ensured the safety of embassy personnel, contractors, humanitarian workers, journalists, and other American citizens in Afghanistan is one of those inexplicable decisions which should haunt the Administration for years to come, especially if — Heaven forbid — any harm comes to our people before they can be airlifted to safety. And it goes without saying that the Taliban has zero interest in letting us evacuate those Afghans who partnered with us over the past 20 years; reports are coming in that many of them are already being summarily executed once discovered. Team Biden seeks to shift the blame to the Trump Administration, insisting that their predecessors’ May 1 deadline for troop removal hemmed in their options. But given the alacrity with which the new administration jettisoned policies of the old administration in a whole variety of issues from border security to the Nord 2 pipeline to arms sales to Arab countries, it’s pretty hard to see the Trump-negotiated deadline as a serious impediment to an effective and orderly withdrawal.
They are in full damage control now, the Biden Administration is, but they are still floundering in their attempt to present an image of strength and competence. Today at his press conference, the President dutifully read his talking points from a teleprompter, exclusively regarding COVID, for 15 minutes. Once he was finished, and as the usually lickspittle White House Press Corps begin to shout questions about the disaster unfolding at the foot of the Hindu Kush, the President simply turned tail and walked away.
Americans are stuck in Afghanistan and Joe Biden turns his back on questions. pic.twitter.com/yInaBfx3nw
— For America (@ForAmerica) August 18, 2021
Let’s all hope this turns out a lot better than it seems to be unfolding.
– JVW
[In my best John McLaughlin voice:]
“Exit question, Patterico’s Pontifications readers: Will anyone in the Biden Administration be fired or forced to resign over this fiasco?”
JVW (8af7eb) — 8/18/2021 @ 5:01 pmSo, I’d love to see the plan that would have evacuated the embassy and civilian USians around the country without causing the very panic that people are now discussing.
I’d also love to see the plan for how a peaceful transition that would have broken the accord Trump negotiated with the Taliban would have worked.
I get the rush to beat up an otherwise so-far popular president. But this just seems like a dumb thing to pick, once you give it a little thought. And I also don’t get the sudden echoing of talking points from the Deep State, but then consistency is the something something of oh forget it.
john (cd2753) — 8/18/2021 @ 5:33 pmhttps://thenationalpulse.com/exclusive/bidens-state-dept-halted-trump-era-crisis-response-plan/
Just another Trump administration plan that Biden ended.
But it’s not his fault.
NJRob (9a3be1) — 8/18/2021 @ 5:34 pmBrave Sir Robinette turned tail and fled…
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 5:34 pmPopular? LMAO.
NJRob (9a3be1) — 8/18/2021 @ 5:35 pmJoe Cellar and his wife dr. better look out for Harris and her team. Or old #25 is going to be used.
mg (8cbc69) — 8/18/2021 @ 5:38 pmThe cellar dweller has harsher words for me being unvaccinated than he does for the taliban. kma.
mg (8cbc69) — 8/18/2021 @ 5:40 pmBut this says nothing about the 5,000 to 10,000 additional U.S. citizens stuck in Kabul, who have now rather shamefully been informed that they need to make their own way to the airport,
The remainder of the sentence says it, I think.
though there will be no security presence along that dangerous Taliban-controlled route to maintain their safety.
I think they will be safer — a lot safer — along a Taliban-controlled route, than they would have been along a U.S.-controlled route, or an “our Afghan allies”-controlled route, or a NATO-controlled route, or a UN-controlled route.
Does Afghanistan have trains? If it does, they’ll be more likely now to run on time as well.
nk (1d9030) — 8/18/2021 @ 5:40 pmThat’s the big story Kassam had mentioned would be forthcoming, Rob. The backstory on all of this keeps getting worse.
The fact that the U.S. is wholly dependent on the good graces of the Taliban to get the 15,000 Americans out is insane. The one-runway airport is surrounded, reportedly no one is able to breach the line (Austin admitted we lack the capability to challenge that, or to locate and extract groups of people), but I suspect we’ve not yet seen how bad the level of incompetence really is.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 5:47 pmI get the rush to beat up an otherwise so-far popular president. But this just seems like a dumb thing to pick, once you give it a little thought.
Silly me for bitching about a teeny-tiny matter like 10,000 Americans stuck in Kabul and forced to navigate through the Taliban to get to the airport, or 80,000 Afghans who allied themselves with us now being at the mercy of a bunch of fanatical killers. You do realize that President Biden’s military advisors tried to dissuade him from removing the troops so rapidly, and there are now reports that the intelligence services told the President that the 60-90 day estimate before the Taliban would be able to take Kabul was looking less and less accurate before President Biden confidently reported it to the rest of the country in July. But Joe Biden is nothing if not utterly full of himself, and he soldiered on.
JVW (8af7eb) — 8/18/2021 @ 5:47 pmThat 15,000 number is per Ian Bremmer just this morning.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 5:48 pmI betcha if Dubya or Cheney were president today, Afghanistan wouldn’t have this problem. But if you’re going to flee, do it in a powerful way. Do it in December, when mountain dwellers are less mobile. Do it with your massive Bagram airbase, killing anyone who interferes with evac. Better yet, don’t do it. I’ve never heard the argument for fleeing afghanistan. I’ve only heard obnoxious ‘what… you want to keep American safe forever? At what point do you stop keeping it safe? We can’t do this forever!!!’ They don’t say that about confederate states, Korea, or Chicago. it’s OK to never stop doing something that works or is necessary, you know.
Biden’s failure is all Biden’s. I’d love to bash Trump for freeing all those Taliban fighters and their leader, but ultimately, he lost an election for all the favors he gave to Russia, such as abandoning our allies and ruining our national defense in a few ways. Now it’s Biden ruining it.
dustin (58fd90) — 8/18/2021 @ 5:51 pm2… how about just evidence of ANY plan. Baby steps for this S of a B dimwit president.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 5:52 pmHe told li’l Georgie Steponpoupalot that he is fine with what he’s done, no regrets, couldn’t have done ANY aspect of it better than he has.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 5:56 pm*President Weekend At Bernies
* h/t Drago
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 5:59 pmI did! I did! I did taw pictures of Taliban with M4 carbines!
“Our Afghan allies”. Yeah, right!
nk (1d9030) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:11 pmSee my point about parroting the Blob’s arguments.
But even if we are to believe selected arguments from the two groups most-actively playing the blame game here, the question remains: I would like to see a plan, not “I toldja-sos” from a military that has been outright lying about what they’ve been building, or an intelligence apparatus that obviously missed a rather major plotline and is feeling embarrassed.
john (cd2753) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:12 pm@2. “I get the rush to beat up an otherwise so-far popular president.”
No.
You don’t.
“It’s better than sex.”- Gordon Gekko [Michael Douglas] ‘Wall Street,’ 1987
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:13 pmIf reports are true that there are thousands of Americans who may not get out, and if those Americans are taken hostage (or worse, get killed) Biden will have to resign.
This doesn’t even take into consideration the fate of the Afghans or the adverse impacts on so many areas of foreign policy. This F-up cannot be overstated.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:13 pmMan, I never thought I’d get to see an American administration undergo a Boyd-type OODA loop moral collapse in real time, but the last few days have been something else.
–The withdrawal devolving into complete chaos as the Afghan Army fell apart like wet tissue paper and the Taliban surrounded the airport, catching the US embassy and the administration completely flat-footed.
–Biden delivering a testy, finger-pointing speech in which he took no responsibility whatsoever.
–Psaki cutting short her vacation and then admitting the next day’s presser that they don’t know if they’re going to be able to get all US citizens out of the country.
–Austin getting stun-locked by a simple question at the presser today and having to get bailed out by Milley, then claiming “We don’t have the capability to go out and collect large numbers of people.” (Apparently he was so discombobulated, he forgot that he has an entire Air Force under his command, with multiple airlift and SOF wings)
–Milley straight-up lying about what they knew of the blitzkrieg’s progress
–Rumors of Harris’s and Biden’s staff passive-aggressively sniping at each other like middle school girls.
–Biden giving a surreal speech on battling America’s greatest enemy, state governors who won’t mandate mask-wearing, and then yeeting right on out the door.
–The complete lack of ANY accountability whatsoever as these venal slimebags try to engage every CYA trick in the book memorized from cover-to-cover by every lifelong bureaucrat in the US government.
–And for the cherry on top, gossip that Harris, Austin, and Milley are going to tell Biden in Delaware that he needs to either resign or they’re going to 25th Amendment him out of office.
Baghdad Bob had more credibility than these chowderheads.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:14 pmI would like to see a plan, not “I toldja-sos” from a military that has been outright lying about what they’ve been building, or an intelligence apparatus that obviously missed a rather major plotline and is feeling embarrassed.
So the real story is that Biden was completely let down by his military advisors and the intelligence community? You know Biden chose his Secretary of Defense and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, and his SecDef even had to get a special waiver from Congress to serve because he had only recently separated from the military. One would think that a guy who was head of United States Central Command as recently as 2016 might have a better clue about how to separate the truth from the BS coming from the Pentagon.
And your blaming “the Blob” for Biden’s predicament is especially funny considering that Joe Biden — who first came to Washington DC in December 1972 — absolutely personifies the Blob. Wasn’t being a “seasoned Washington insider” supposed to be one of this guy’s strengths?
JVW (8af7eb) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:19 pmThe other thing, comrades, is … weren’t these
warned by Trump to make their way out by May 1? I kind of heard that they were. They were, weren’t they? What were they doing with their pants down these last three months?
nk (1d9030) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:19 pmSo, I’d love to see the plan that would have evacuated the embassy and civilian USians around the country without causing the very panic that people are now discussing.
Man, you’re thisclose to actually getting why this was such a disaster.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:21 pmWhat were they doing with their pants down these last three months?
Interesting story from Fox News (take it for what it is and where it comes from) that the Biden Administration dismantled a Trump Administration initiative to create a bureau which would plan for and execute these sort of civilian evacuations. Now sure, it was probably a useless government boondoggle, but when have Democrats like Joe Biden ever come out against useless government boondoggles before now?
JVW (8af7eb) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:28 pmi’ll bet the taliban are checking vaccine passports
JF (e1156d) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:30 pmI’m, going to go out on a limb and say it was because “it wasn’t their boondoggle.”
felipe (484255) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:30 pmThe Washington Generals had more balls than the dopes at West Point.
mg (8cbc69) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:33 pmOne would think that a guy who was head of United States Central Command as recently as 2016 might have a better clue about how to separate the truth from the BS coming from the Pentagon.
Keep in mind that this is the same guy who got caught completely off-guard during that command by a similar blitzkrieg in 2014 when ISIS was flying down the Tigris towards Baghdad, and through the MERV and up to Kobane in Syria, calling them “a flash in the pan,” and then tried to downplay how serious of a threat they were after the fact in order to cover his backside when they took control of all that territory.
That’s the problem–he’s been clouding the line between truth and BS for a long time now.
Factory Working Orphan (2775f0) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:35 pmA permanent Bureau of Bugging Out would not be a bad idea, actually.
nk (1d9030) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:37 pmWhat were they doing with their pants down these last three months?
With this bunch, I’m the joint you really don’t want to know.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:39 pmWow… great auto correct! Make that, With this bunch, I’m thinking you really don’t want to know.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:41 pmmilligram wrote:
Sometimes it’s a lot wiser to listen to the sergeants than the generals.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (3867c9) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:42 pmA Modest Proposal: send 1,000 lawyers over there, they’ll get it all sorted out… one way or another.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:43 pm“I betcha if Dubya or Cheney were president today, Afghanistan wouldn’t have this problem.”
Dustin, I betcha if: Washington, Adams, Jefferson, Monroe, JQA, Jackson, Van Buren, Harrison, Tyler, Polk, Taylor, Filmore, Pierce, Buchanan, Lincoln, Johnson, Grant, Hayes, Garfield, Arthur, Cleveland, Harrison, McKinley, TR, Taft, Wilson, Harding, Coolidge, Hoover, FDR, HST, Ike, JFK, LBJ, The Big Dick, Ford, Jimma, Reagan [yes, REAGAN,] Bush 41, Bubba, Dubya, Mr. Spock, Trump, Nero, Tojo, Adolf, Nikita, Josef, Gorby, Vlad, Xi, Mao, Elizabeths I & II, Victoria, George III, Winnie, Neville, John Cleese, Mel Brooks, Snidely Whiplash, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and every proctologist listed in the Wilmington phone book were president today, “Afghanistan wouldn’t have this problem.”
The dumb-assed, brain-damaged, incompetent Irish mick is a goddamned idiot.
And a bum.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:43 pm“ And now we have the inevitable conflicting reports coming from the astonishingly inept White House and the astonishingly inept Pentagon (represented by Thoroughly Modern (Gen) Milley (h/t to Mark Steyn))
The White House is reporting what other agencies are reporting: there is significant interference at the airport by the taliban (you know, “relatively peaceful” beatings and shootings) meanwhile, our Fabulously Woke Pentagon (did you know they now stock tampons in the “Identifying as Male” bathrooms! So exciting! Plus all the lipstick colors you could ever want! And don’t get me started with what they have in the “identifying as Women” restroom!) is claiming that there is no problem whatsoever.
And if we’ve learned one thing, its that we can certainly trust our intrepid CIA-ers (the ones not assigned to work directly with the NSA/FBI to set up republicans/conservatives) and military “intelligence” types to give us a clear-eyed view of the situation on the ground, can’t we?”
—- Drago
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:51 pmWhat were they doing with their pants down these last three months?
nk (1d9030) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:19 pm
I see you’re a fan of softball.
norcal (a6130b) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:56 pm32
mg (8cbc69) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:59 pmgenius….
“In the middle of a conflict, good analysis is hard to come by. Because adversaries do not telegraph their plans to one another, plans depend greatly on the fact patterns surrounding their execution, and no human mind can possibly observe, much less comprehend, the movements of all players on the battlefield, the course of a war, no matter how meticulously planned and no matter how eminently credentialed the planners, frequently defies the plan.
This phenomenon is known as the “Fog of War,” a phrase which originated with Prussian military theorist Carl von Clausewitz in his magnum opus, On War:
War is the realm of uncertainty; three quarters of the factors on which action in war is based are wrapped in a fog of greater or lesser uncertainty. A sensitive and discriminating judgment is called for; a skilled intelligence to scent out the truth.
Such intelligence is evidently completely lacking in the U.S. political, military, diplomatic, and “intelligence” apparatuses. A little over a month ago, President Biden – presumably echoing the advice he was getting from the permanent bureaucracy – said the following:
https://twitter.com/BryanDeanWright/status/1426710333264179214?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1426710333264179214%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fprestonbyrne.com%2F2021%2F08%2F15%2Fdid-america-just-lose-afghanistan-because-of-whatsapp%2F
How wrong this assessment was is now clear for everyone to see. A week ago, the U.S. said Afghanistan could withstand the Taliban for 90 days. Today, the (70,000-strong) Taliban is in control of the capital, the much-vaunted Afghan army has disintegrated, and tens of thousands of Afghans – whose collective force could stop the Taliban, if only it had the organization to do so – are fleeing to any place and by any means they can.
Conventionally, the United States did everything right; it installed a government, equipped and trained an army with four times the Taliban’s manpower, an air force, and top of the line American military materiel, and even now is apparently flying sorties against Taliban targets. Yet everywhere the Taliban is in control, and they did so, in many places, apparently without firing a shot.
So what the hell happened?
I’m a tech guy, not a military guy. And in terms of the kind of tech I’m into it’s that weird decentralized crypto tech like Bitcoin, not SaaS.
I do know enough about the war to know that when the Taliban went toe to toe with American and NATO soldiers, the Taliban got its ass kicked basically every single time. No air force, no navy, and no artillery meant that whenever the Taliban revealed themselves on the battlefield they were guaranteed to be cut to pieces by various pieces of intimidating American hardware like A-10 Warthogs or .50-caliber rifles.
It appears the Taliban tried something different this time around. Open source reporting shows that rather than rocking up and going toe to toe with the Afghan national army, they appear to have simply called everyone in the entire country, instead, told them they were in control, and began assuming the functions of government as they went:”
https://twitter.com/RichardHanania/status/1426997623689383937?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1426997623689383937%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fprestonbyrne.com%2F2021%2F08%2F15%2Fdid-america-just-lose-afghanistan-because-of-whatsapp%2F
Read it all: https://prestonbyrne.com/2021/08/15/did-america-just-lose-afghanistan-because-of-whatsapp/
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 7:08 pmBiden is cowardly as he is foolish. But hey, he’s not Trump so I’m sure the 10,000 Americans in Afghanistan who are fearing for their life are probably glad Biden has a better Twitter presence than Trump.
Way to close Bagram before you left Afghanistan for good, Slow Joe. Who knew you’d need an airport to evacuate from a landlocked country?
Hoi Polloi (998b37) — 8/18/2021 @ 7:17 pmUK is sending SAS into Kabul from the airport to extract UK citizens, putting UK troops and US troops at odds over how to prioritize. British told Taliban they’d never end being punished if they interfere. Americans are said to have negotiated a deal that was much more polite and subservient. British will pick up Americans if the Americans are with British citizens.
No ,atter how it is spun, Biden had no plan… or the Biden administration had no plan. The Iranians are laughing at both sides because they’d have gotten a subservient deal plus cash from the Obama retreads and ignored the deal. (Of course we might still find out cash changed hands)
A pox upon people who are trumpeting Taliban PR flacks talking about respecting women and former US employees. Those flacks always defer to the tenets of Islam (as they practice it) and of course the videos flooding out of Afghanistan show Taliban taking women and very young girls, beating and then shooting male “criminals”. The men beaten and killed were apparently all criminals as per Islamic law which seems a bit sudden
steveg (ebe7c1) — 8/18/2021 @ 7:21 pmhttps://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/sas-launch-daring-mission-rescue-24772841
steveg (ebe7c1) — 8/18/2021 @ 7:22 pmI fully expect Congress to hold hearings and open an investigation into this intelligence failure. Probably the worst since 9/11, and who knows, may be even more deadly when it is all over.
Democrats have for years said Bush could have stopped 9/11 based on a PDB that was short on operational details. Biden flat-out said a couple of days before the fall that the Taliban wouldn’t take over and that no one in the USIC said that would happen. The evidence is way more damning now.
Biden didn’t listen to his intel. Biden made bad decisions. Biden lied.
Time for the investigation.
Hoi Polloi (998b37) — 8/18/2021 @ 7:27 pmThe Trump agreement with the Taliban didn’t call for an evacuation. The Taliban was supposed to share power with the Afghan government, not take it over. Not that there shouldn’t have been a contingency plan, which obviously wasn’t well conceived.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 8/18/2021 @ 7:30 pm‘Who knew you’d need an airport to evacuate from a landlocked country?’
Legends in their own minds.
“God bless Field Marshal Montgomery.” – Maj. Gen.,Sosabowski [Gene Hackman] ‘A Bridge Too Far’ 1977
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/18/2021 @ 7:37 pmLike I said in the other thread, no battle plan including retreat and withdrawal survives contact with the enemy and the Taliban were not going to deprive themselves of one drop of the milk of their victory.
But what the Taliban did is also sound military tactics. You don’t give a retreating enemy time to change his mind, regroup, and retrench or counter-attack. You move in fast behind him and occupy his positions and keep him on the run.
BTW, that’s what the British tried to do with the famous Charge of the Light Brigade that some comrades keep mentioning, except that they had bad information and charged a Russian artillery unit that was still emplaced. Badaboom, badabing! No such luck in our case.
nk (1d9030) — 8/18/2021 @ 7:40 pmRemember when Biden declared “America is Back”? I do. So does Jonah.
“America is back” has crashed and burned at the southern border as well.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 8/18/2021 @ 7:43 pmWho knew you’d need an airport to evacuate from a landlocked country?
I’m telling you, McKenzie is on the radio with the Fifth Fleet asking them why the ships he ordered to Kabul still haven’t arrived.
nk (1d9030) — 8/18/2021 @ 7:46 pmPaul, but the hope with Biden was that he’d be more competent then Trump. Not that he’d execute Trump’s dumb plans.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 8/18/2021 @ 7:49 pm40… Austin mentioned having a two week window where the Taliban is allowing the US to extract all Americans.
Military leadership. Almost brings a tear to one’s eye.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 7:52 pm“A Bridge Too Far”
I’ve got a screenplay in mind… working title: “A Mind Too Far Gone”
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 7:56 pm
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 7:59 pm“Bush lied, people died”“Milley lied, Biden sh*t teh bed”“ The dumb-assed, brain-damaged, incompetent Irish mick is a goddamned idiot.
And a bum.”
– DCSCA
Thems was fighting’ words back in the roaring Twenties when DCSCA and Joe Biden were taking turns standing up to Cornpop.
Leviticus (19dc9e) — 8/18/2021 @ 8:04 pmI feel like you’d have more affinity for the guy, DCSCA. The two of you are birds of a feather.
Leviticus (19dc9e) — 8/18/2021 @ 8:05 pmChaos… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJkNTLncmWI
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 8:09 pmLOL DCSCA, you mad?
Well I’ll tell ya who did worse than Bush and Cheney at literally everything: your boy Trump.
dustin (58fd90) — 8/18/2021 @ 8:14 pmTrue, T123. But now Chris Miller, Trump’s Acting SecDef, is saying that his withdrawal idea is a deep fake and he intended troops to be there all along. Jake Tapper: “A senior administration official under Trump says that Miller’s story is completely untrue.”
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 8/18/2021 @ 8:19 pmIt was a “Too weak” window.
steveg (ebe7c1) — 8/18/2021 @ 8:31 pmNo plan survives the attack, but that is why we try to rule the sky with airpower.
If we were getting reports that our A10’s, C130’s, Apaches, Kiowas (were these not used because the names are offensive?) were low on ammo and fuel, B-52 flying around the clock, combat air controllers and pilots exhausted from all the missions flown to protect American lives and interests. I’d buy it.
This should have been the Tet Offensive. Enemy infiltrates, starts sh**, puts us on our heels and then we kick their butt and the media reports it as our loss, another day at the office.
Good piece by Mr. London, who had some inside knowledge. This travesty was so avoidable.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 8/18/2021 @ 8:42 pmIt like this Newsom quote was plagiarized by the Taliban
“It’s inevitable. This door’s wide open now. It’s going to happen whether you like it or not.”
USAF is supposed to insert brrrrrrrrrttt sound from A-10’s here and earth shattering kabooms from B-52’s there and a convoy ambush from Navy Seals over here, Army artillery support there while American are picked up door by door by US Army Ranger and Marine Expeditionary forces. ROE’s back in Talibanlandia go to the Geneva Convention minimum standards that are given to a non uniformed, non government force.
COVID is the only thing keeping the Taiwanese from fleeing to the USA en masse (no offense meant to Central Americans, but on the balance a great number Taiwanese will be instant producers in our economy so of course Biden will not accept them
steveg (ebe7c1) — 8/18/2021 @ 8:47 pmA good question being asked is: why did our embassy close operations while those of the British, Russia, France etc remained open?
steveg (ebe7c1) — 8/18/2021 @ 8:51 pm#58 Paul Thanks for the link.
“Moreover, from my perspective, they appeared to believe that negative consequences would be at least largely owned by Trump, the GOP, and Khalilzad, whose being left in place, intentionally or not, allowed him to serve even more so as a fall guy”
That is very cynical politics.
I saw that Ron Paul was quoted as predicting back in 2001 that 20 years later Afghanistan would be right back where it was. The old loon was onto something.
I still have not been convinced by the pivoting of the trump haters from “Giantest Narcissist Evhah!” to “Idiotest President Evhah!!!” countering my opinion that Trump would rather lose Baron’s left testicle than take an “L” like this one
steveg (ebe7c1) — 8/18/2021 @ 9:06 pm@52/53.
Doyle Lonnegan could take him PDQ… on a tour of the baggage car.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/18/2021 @ 9:09 pm;(
dustin (58fd90) — 8/18/2021 @ 9:10 pmFrom AP:
BAGRAM, Afghanistan (AP) — The U.S. left Afghanistan’s Bagram Airfield after nearly 20 years by shutting off the electricity and slipping away in the night without notifying the base’s new Afghan commander, who discovered the Americans’ departure more than two hours after they left, Afghan military officials said.
That and the General who retired back in July after he’d recommended closing Bagram AFB
steveg (ebe7c1) — 8/18/2021 @ 9:16 pm@53. Not Irish. Nor Catholic. Thank fvcking God. 😉
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/18/2021 @ 9:22 pmSteveG, love a lot of your comments and agree with a lot of them today, but I doubt Trump would have done a whole lot when he was losing on a foreign policy front. He didn’t care when the Kurds were crushed, and he didn’t fight many tyrants (And he was friendly to the Taliban).
But it’s academic. Trump didn’t screw this up. Biden screwed this up. Trump didn’t do a good job with Afghanistan at all, and only Bush really cared about them I guess.
dustin (58fd90) — 8/18/2021 @ 9:25 pm‘The U.S. left Afghanistan’s Bagram Airfield after nearly 20 years by shutting off the electricity and slipping away in the night without notifying the base’s new Afghan commander, who discovered the Americans’ departure more than two hours after they left, Afghan military officials said.’
The dumb-assed, brain-damaged mick told ’em to ‘pull the plug’ on Bagram.
So they did. Literally.
He’s an idiot. And a bum.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/18/2021 @ 9:27 pmHe’s an idiot. And a bum.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/18/2021 @ 9:27 pm
We heard you the first time, which was about ten thousand times ago.
norcal (a6130b) — 8/18/2021 @ 9:30 pmAnd you wil ’til the idiot is dead.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/18/2021 @ 9:34 pmAustin mentioned having a two week window where the Taliban is allowing the US to extract all Americans’
Bend over.
=butt-smack= “Thank you, sir! May I have another?!” – Omega Pledge Chip Diller [Kevin Bacon] ‘Animal House’ 1978
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/18/2021 @ 9:58 pmSeries of U.S. Actions Left Afghan Allies Frantic, Stranded and Eager to Get Out
So, all these refugees were left high and dry so that Ghani — who was quick to leave himself, no doubt with the treasury — wouldn’t have his image undermined.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 8/18/2021 @ 11:27 pmIt’s not like Biden didn’t see the need for an orderly evacuation, he DECIDED against it, to avoid undercutting the Afghan government. How did that work out?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 8/18/2021 @ 11:28 pmAgain, I think the House GOP ought to demand an impeachment hearing.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 8/18/2021 @ 11:29 pmFrom the producers of “Benghazi”, we have the sequels, Parts II through DCLXVI.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 8/18/2021 @ 11:32 pm“Exit question, Patterico’s Pontifications readers: Will anyone in the Biden Administration be fired or forced to resign over this fiasco?”
Sure. The ambassador to Afghanistan.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 8/18/2021 @ 11:37 pmNovember 25. 1783 evacuation day. nobody was fired then either. lord cornwallis became viceroy of india. Biden administration wanted out in the worst way as military goes full CYA as usual.
asset (d0e33f) — 8/18/2021 @ 11:58 pmhttps://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/08/18/lara-logan-carries-a-big-trumpet-about-afghanistan-if-the-u-s-government-wanted-it-to-be-different-it-would-be/
mg (8cbc69) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:19 amThe United States is a shciffhole nation.
The surrender presidency of joe cellar is just what biden/harris voters wanted.
mg (8cbc69) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:42 amThe surrender presidency of joe cellar is just what biden/harris voters wanted.
Nonsense, mg. What we want is what everybody else wants: Tight pussy, loose shoes, and a warm place to poop.
nk (1d9030) — 8/19/2021 @ 4:19 am“Will anyone in the Biden Administration be fired or forced to resign over this fiasco?”
Someone created an exit plan that included leaving behind a considerable number of American civilians and Afghani translators, and a significant quantity of military hardware…..while simultaneously removing all U.S. supporting air operations and the physical control of Kabul. So even if someone complains about how rapidly events devolved….and how Afghani forces let us down, shouldn’t the priorities have been different….and why would we ever place Americans interests outside of American control…without a real good rationale (which I’ve not heard)? I can’t fathom how the top general in theater can keep his job. I also can’t understand how those above him did not ask the hard questions about logistics and timing….and test the risk management plan. The Secretary of Defense dropped the ball….I’m not sure that Biden has the testicular fortitude to fire a black defense secretary….but how do you excuse the lack of oversight?
Biden can resort to scapegoating the details….but his performance this week….and over the months running up….have really diminished his standing. Trying to scapegoat Trump…after having no problem in reversing Trump policy over and over….is nothing short of embarrassing. Pivoting to Republican governors and Covid restrictions……was transparent….and risibly inappropriate. Hanging out those below him probably saves Biden’s job….unless events devolve further and we see American casualties (although I think the Taliban understands that killing or seizing U.S. citizens operates against them getting the U.S. to leave and securing government control). But Biden is seen as failing at basic competence…..every voter….even those that don’t give a lick about Afghani allies….can understand you don’t leave American civilians behind…and hope the Taliban gives them secure passage. He’ll likely stay…but who exactly trusts his judgment? The Dems really dropped the ball in running him….
AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 8/19/2021 @ 5:03 amnk (1d9030) — 8/18/2021 @ 6:19 pm
They probably thought the same thing as Time123; [Biden’s] assurances didn’t seem credible and [they] assumed he was buying time to increase our presence and we would remain indefinitely.
frosty (f27e97) — 8/19/2021 @ 5:37 amIt’s important to note that not only are we failing US citizens in country and Afghans there are NATO forces and citizens of other NATO countries Biden is abandoning. For the crew that is usually so multilateral they generally speak in the 3rd person Biden spent several days of this disaster not talking to NATO allies. When Psaki was asked about it she said he’d call allies when there was some benefit to doing so.
Wasn’t Joe supposed to be good at all this diplomacy stuff?
frosty (f27e97) — 8/19/2021 @ 5:47 amThe scales are beginning to fall from some eyes.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 5:51 amColonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 5:51 am
We’ll see. I believe a lot of Biden supporters subscribe to his theory of things that happened a few days ago.
They’re in a tight loop shifting between blaming Trump because it was his plan they didn’t follow, Trumpers because why not, the American people because they demanded we get out immediately after 20 years, the non-Taliban Afghans because they looked like they were capable of holding their country until everyone made it to the airport, wash, rinse, repeat.
frosty (f27e97) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:05 am“ The decision to abandon Bagram in favor of HKIA could result in a massive, unprecedented hostage crisis, should the Taliban decide to attack and then overcome the U.S. forces defending HKIA. If that happens, the possibilities grow grimmer from there. Black Hawk Down, the Iran hostage crisis, ISIS beheadings, all possible, all by the thousands. The U.S. military will be doing very well to avoid that. The Taliban would also be wise to avoid it, as going hot would force Biden to redeploy a massive number of forces to retaliate. The possibilities spiral out of control from there.
In any case, Milley clearly says the plan to abandon Bagram came from the commander in Afghanistan, Gen. Austin “Scottie” Miller, in response to orders from Washington.
It’s tempting to call for Miller’s firing now, but there’s a problem with that. He already left.
NBC ran this story about Miller stepping down from command of U.S.-NATO forces on July 12. It’s poignant now to read the quotes he and his commander, CENTCOM’s Gen. Frank McKenzie, offered Afghanistan at the time of Miller’s departure. . .
Clearly, they could not count on that support. McKenzie knew so at the time. Miller’s plan would have been in development and briefings since April at the time of his departure on July 12. In fact, the United States abandoned Bagram Air Base a full week prior, the AP reported at the time. Miller’s plan had already been initiated on July 5. . .
. . . This was the plan: bug out of the largest U.S. base in the dead of night without even telling our allies, then a week later reassure them that we were always going to stand by them — when the military knew Biden had no intention of doing so. . .
They still, in my estimation, managed to make everything even worse by choosing to defend the wrong patch of ground. They had a choice and chose very poorly. That’s not hindsight, it’s a recognition of how things are playing out right now. Again, Bagram provided capabilities that HKIA does not.
But the choice was forced on them by a man in the White House who never served in uniform, who foisted his drug-addict son on the military, and who set arbitrary dates for withdrawal without any regard for the conditions and facts on the ground. Biden’s MO since taking office has been to fling executive orders and edicts with no regard for the real-world consequences, and then blame Trump or someone else when it blows up in his face.”
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/bryan-preston/2021/08/18/the-general-who-recommended-abandoning-bagram-air-base-has-already-left-afghanistan-hm-n1470790
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:21 amSo they send Harris to Vietnam during this watershed event, this defining moment. It’s almost as if they want to rub America’s nose in something.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:26 amThe destination was the right one. If Trump was still driving the bus, we would be right to blame him for the wreck. But he’s not. The Biden team is.
I mean, like, you know, is it really fair to blame Trump for not doing the thing that really needed to be done — taking the senior 7,000 or so officers and NCOs of all five branches of the military to the Katyn forest? We don’t do that here.
nk (1d9030) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:27 amBiden’s performance in this has been terrible. Very disappointing. He wanted to leave and executed this terribly.
Nk, your statements about the military are vile.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:29 am@83 Said it before and it’s worth repeating; the only reason to vote for Biden was that he ran against Trump. We didn’t expect much from him ,and he’s still under achiving.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:39 amWhat is the threshold for him to have achieved less than Trump?
Is there a separate threshold for Biden having done more damage to this country than Trump.
(And I don’t mean a comparison of hypothetical 2nd term Trump to 1st term Biden.)
BuDuh (fdd65e) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:57 amPer the state dept. spokeshole, they “are opening the aperture”.
Be of good cheer!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:00 amGeneral Scottie Miller is the brainchild of closing Bagram. He left in July and is retiring.
mg (8cbc69) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:05 amOnly in the U.S. Military.
Such a farce.
Just wait until they begin separating American heads from shoulders. Which is likely to happen.
Run for the Aperture, Dementia Joe!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:12 amWe didn’t expect much from him ,and he’s still under achiving.
On the other hand, he is over-jiving.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:14 amColonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/18/2021 @ 5:56 pm
And he interjected, when George Stephanopoulos mentioned some of the scenes at the airport, that that was four days ago – changing that to five days ago. It was on;y two days before.
He said the Taliban were letting people out, singling out who they were allowing to get to the airport, although he did allude to some problems with some people, but he did not making it definitive:
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:16 amYes, Sammy, I think Biden also expressed some optimism when he said, “they aren’t killing anyone right now“, or something to that effect.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:22 amDon’t be fooled… NeverTrump are still down wit’ Dementia Joe. They cooked their meal, let them choke it all down.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:25 am“Let’s all hope this turns out a lot better than it seems to be unfolding”
Fat chance, after four years of screaming and carrying on about orchestrated, simulated and manufactured “competency crises” pushed by journalists, lawyers and disloyal insiders. you get to see what an actual incompetent administration looks like. And Trump and his followers will be there every step of the way to make sure you feel it.
“is it really fair to blame Trump for not doing the thing that really needed to be done — taking the senior 7,000 or so officers and NCOs of all five branches of the military to the Katyn forest? We don’t do that here.”
I see that nk is trying to do a DCSCA ‘reformed Communist’ turn, except it might have been more impressive if he had held off his come-to-Jesus moment until the trumpets started blowing and the sky started cracking. I’ll forgive you if your next seventy times seven posts all begin with “I was wrong about Trump and should have supported him and his agenda when it mattered most” though.
Gamerguy420 (13523f) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:28 amBuDuh (fdd65e) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:57 am
It’s an article of faith for NeverTrump that anyone could do a better job than Trump. No threshold is needed for articles of faith.
frosty (f27e97) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:38 amMy astronomical abhorrence of Trump has little to do with his agenda, Steppe Nomad. Because I always knew that, good or bad, the worthless loser would f*** it up anyway. No, it’s not any agenda. It’s that the slimy New York sewer slug turns my stomach.
nk (1d9030) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:39 amRIP, guy… https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-njzHg2vbY
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:45 amLike right now. Maybe Trump had a good bugout plan, and maybe his people could have carried it out less half-assed than Biden’s. Or not. But we’ll never know because the loser lost reelection.
nk (1d9030) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:46 amThat story you link to doesn’t ssy they do. It’s only surrendering soldiers – and soldiers still in the army, like those in hospitals, who are being summarily executed.
High level officials are being detained while they await further orders. The top Taliban want to decide what happens to them themselves, and may have secret reasons for sparing some of them. The Taliban officially proclaimed an amnesty. That’s for now.
Those who violate orders given by armed men are mostly being beaten, although one woman who stubbornly refused to put on a burka was executed. One of the orders is apparently not to take pictures of bad things.
A crowd of young people in Jalalabad protested against the Afghan flag being replaced by the Taliban flag and live fore was directed into the crowd. Jalalabad is the city which, back in 1989, Pakistan organized an attack on, and in 1996 Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto predicted would not fall to the Taliban. It did, and that was the start f their takeover of Afghanistan.
In the provinces, of course, we have some forced marriages or demands for them, and a father can have anything done to his daughter if he’s associated with the Taliban.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:48 am“ Taliban’s Afghanistan Advance Tests Biden’s ‘America Is Back’ Foreign Policy Promise”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/08/14/talibans-afghanistan-advance-tests-bidens-america-back-policy/8121040002/
You don’t say!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:52 amFWIW…
https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/082/206/061/original/2792f075181a2a83.jpeg
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:57 am@90, how about; not committing multiple impeachable offenses and not trying to steal the presidency based on a lie? How about not convincing about 25% of the electorate that our election process is hopelessly corrupt based on no evidence? How about If he does everything this badly?
Also, I’m faulting Biden for handling this as badly as Trump would have (based on how it went with the Kurds). I don’t think he’s doing a worse job. YMMV.
If the GOP can nominate a competent candidate that hasn’t embraced Trump horrendous lies I’d be thrilled to vote for them. Unfortunately the GOP seems to be running those people out of the party so the choices remain bad.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:58 amalthough one woman who stubbornly refused to put on a burka was executed.
Nope. The execution of a woman for not putting on a burka is a 2015 video from Syria.
nk (1d9030) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:59 amBiden did not hold on to Bagram Air Force base till te end because of two assumptions:
1) The Afghan army could use it (although they didn’t take care to hand it over – the lights were even turned off, and the premises were looted.)
2) It was of limited military value because there would be a negotiated settlement to the war.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:59 amalthough one woman who stubbornly refused to put on a burka was executed.
107. nk (1d9030) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:59 am 107.
Makes sense. I have no good source. It sounded different than other things happening this week in Kabul.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:02 amEven in 2001, when we really, really, really did not like the Taliban, the photos we saw of the Taliban and “scantily-clad” women were the women being chased off the street with sticks.
nk (1d9030) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:03 amThe country successfully got rid of tRump and replaced him with the competent President Biden.
BillPasadena (5b0401) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:04 am67. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/18/2021 @ 9:27 pm
This would make for a nice apocryphal story, but it couldn’t happen that way,
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:07 amIt’s morning in America! We have a barely functional Alzheimer’s sufferer as our President, and a leftist lunatic as his deputy and likely successor.
Be of good cheer!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:07 amWhat is the threshold for him to have achieved less than Trump?
Dunno, but from all the rhetoric about Trump being the worst ever you would think that Biden would be a clearly huge improvement.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:11 amThe country successfully got rid of tRump and replaced him with the competent President Biden.
I’m glad I finished my coffee 5 minutes ago. That’s some funny sh*t!!!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:14 amSomeone created an exit plan that included leaving behind a considerable number of American civilians and Afghani translators, and a significant quantity of military hardware…..while simultaneously removing all U.S. supporting air operations and the physical control of Kabul.
Captain Edmund Blackadder =mike-drop=
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:19 am@114, well yeah, but there a lot of room between ‘better then trump’ and ‘good’. I can’t think of anything Biden’s done that I think is good.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:21 am@98. Gamerguy420, you know what the difference is between PT Barnum and a bum?
I do.
Some day, you will, too.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:24 amI can’t think of anything Biden’s done that I think is good
I can: ending his 1988 presidential campaign in plagiaristic disgrace.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:26 amI think there will inevitably be some evening of scores. And purges. The translators who participated in “enhanced interrogation” of prisoners who survived and can identify them certainly face an uncertain future.
But traffic cops? Water and sewer, streets and sanitation, drivers license examiners, doctors, nurses, tax assessors? They’ll just change their turbans.
nk (1d9030) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:29 am80. AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 8/19/2021 @ 5:03 am
They assumed they would have 18 months to get them out, and, at a bare minimum, 3 to 6 months after the end of the U.S. presence, because the Taliban was not the Borth Vietnamese army, and the Afghan government had supposedly, 300,000 men, while the Taliban hadm supposedly, 75,000 and only the Afghan government had an air force/
Their worst case scenario was a flaring up of the war.
In the hands of the Afghan army.
They had only a bird’s eye view of the situation. The Afghan army couldn’t maintain the planes it had.
It’s really like the Bay of Pigs. Faulty assumptions built into the intelligence, and the military people assumed something would happen militarily that wouldn’t.
There will be a problem if the Taliban try to restrict those leaving to foreign citizens.
He didn’t. He assumed that the old Afghan government would remain in control, and if it was going to fall, there’d be weeks of notice and warning.
Nobody in the U.S. government projected a fall of Kabul from a Friday to a Monday even as a worst case scenario. Telling that to Biden would not have been received favorably so nobody did.
I think he was their best choice.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:30 am113. Kamala Harris is not a leftist lunatic. She’s an ignorant cynic. Joe Biden is a not so ignorant cynic. When he does things for political reasons, they tend to go wrong because he’s not got excellent judgement.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:35 am3.5. Biden’s job approval rating dropped from 53% to 46% between last Friday and Monday, and that’s for all issues in the news, including the virus, and people have yet to see how things work out, or become more generally aware of all that happened and why.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:39 amIt would be nice to overlay a Presidential approval rating over a graph of fawning news stories. The less they ask what flavor ice cream he is enjoying the worse his approval seems to be.
BuDuh (fdd65e) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:46 am‘120.I think there will inevitably be some evening of scores. And purges. The translators who participated in “enhanced interrogation” of prisoners who survived and can identify them certainly face an uncertain future. But traffic cops? Water and sewer, streets and sanitation, drivers license examiners, doctors, nurses, tax assessors? They’ll just change their turbans.’
Turbans; turbines; Turner Classic Movies:
“Well. It seems we’re to have a British waterworks with an Arab flag on it. Do you think it was worth it?” – Mr. Dryden [Claude Rains] ‘Lawrence of Arabia’ 1962
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:46 amReporter: “how many Americans are in Afghanistan right now?”
Kirby: “I don’t know.”
The competence is overwhelming. /sarc
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:48 amPaging General Mills, General Motors and General Electric, please pick up the phone, America needs Generals.
mg (8cbc69) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:49 amKamala Harris is not a leftist lunatic. She’s an ignorant cynic.
Harris IS a leftist lunatic AND an ignorant cynic. Embrace the power of “AND”, Sammy!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:50 amNot those Generals, outsourcers and wokeistas all 3. Is General Dynam8cs still around? Maybe Dollar General, give them credit for trying to be the next Aldi.
urbanleftbehind (ef1779) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:55 amTime for the paddy wagon to pick up joe cellar and put him with nurse Ratched.
mg (8cbc69) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:56 amGeneral Tire could leave a mark.
mg (8cbc69) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:56 amAny General is better than the karens we have
mg (8cbc69) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:58 amMike Pence dd not embrace Trump’s lie about the election but he seems to be trying to support him about Afghanistan, (i.e. whatever he did, was good) and in the process wrote an op-ed piece for the Wall Street Journal that seemed to me to be contradicting itself:
I mean did Trrump intend keeping agram Air Force base, or not? Because I don;’t know how you can keep t without having any sokdiers in Afghanistan. Trump himself says he would have destroyed it.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/mike-pence-biden-broke-our-deal-with-the-taliban-11629238764
Did Trump have one? His plan, according to Pence, seems to have been to deter the Taliban.
From what? More than Biden aims to deter them from doing? Is he saying that with Trump as president, the deterrence would have worked?
According to Pence, did Trump intend a complete withdrawal by a date certain, or only after and for the Taliban and the government had come to a peace agreement? Or is he claiming Biden spoiled the possibility of a peace agreement by postponing the departure of U.S. troops from May 1 to September 11?
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:00 am* According to Pence, did Trump intend a complete withdrawal by a date certain, or only after the Taliban and the government had come to a peace agreement? Or is he claiming Biden spoiled the possibility of a peace agreement by postponing the departure of U.S. troops from May 1 to September 11?
But if he hadn’t the departure date, a satisfactory to the U.S. peace agreement would have arrived at by Trumps stated withdrawal date of May 1, 2021?
Pence could say that Biden could have cancelled the May 1 date on the grounds that conditions weren’t met, and made the withdrawal dependent on conditions. But you have to read a lot between the lines to see that.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:06 am* But if Biden hadn’t postponed the departure date, a satisfactory to the U.S. peace agreement would have arrived at by Trumps stated withdrawal date of May 1, 2021??
Pence could say that Biden could have cancelled the May 1 date on the grounds that conditions weren’t met, and made the withdrawal dependent on conditions without setting a new date.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:07 am“The honor of a nation is drowned in an ocean of incompetence and indifference, in which retreat and surrender cannot even be done well.”
—- hawkeyedjb
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:13 amTime123 (9f42ee) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:58 am
Anyone was supposed to be better than Trump. It looks like now “as bad as” is ok? Of course you don’t think he’s doing worse. My point was that for some people it’s impossible for anyone to do worse and you’re illustrating that. Any given issue will be imagined as “but Trump would have done the same or worse” and the threshold will be adjusted to fit.
So, now Biden gets multiple impeachable offenses? Did you drop “not violate the constitution” after he intentionally ignored SCOTUS on the eviction moratorium?
My mileage does vary since I consider leaving several thousand US citizens and citizens of NATO countries to their fate with the Taliban worse than whatever happened with the Kurds. I consider sneaking out of Bagram and abandoning it prior to securing a safe exit strategy worse than whatever happened with the Kurds. There are reports now that US forces are refusing to leave the airport and retrieve US citizens and are trying to prevent the British from rescuing NATO, Afghan, and US citizens and I consider that worse than whatever happened with the Kurds. When questioned about it Biden said it’s already 4-5 days old, when it’s not even that old, isn’t working with allies, and blames Trump. All thing I consider worse than whatever happened with the Kurds.
frosty (f27e97) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:15 amMuddled? Joe Biden’s Administration? Who knew. Take Harris off her position as Biden Border Genius and put her on Afghanistan. That’ll end it in a hurry.
Actually, it weill be over in two weeks and then the media will memory hole it as much as possible. Ignoring tribal cleansings, and street applications of Islamic justice as interpreted by Taliban and al-Qaeda
When the Taliban took over Qala Islam Afghan- Iranian border checkpoint back in June, it became clear what the Taliban (and Iranians) were up to.
steveg (ebe7c1) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:22 amIf it’s confirmed that Biden decided to leave the Afghans who assisted us and their families to be murdered because he didn’t want it to be coupled with his disastrous border “policy” and used against him – as the WP is apparently contending – the Biden presidency is gone.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:24 am137… you need to work at being more gentle, frosty!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:26 am“No, it’s not any agenda. It’s that the slimy New York sewer slug turns my stomach.”
So you’re just a regional racist (practically artisanal bigotry at this point, very quaint to hate specific cities like specific sports teams instead of targeting the Blue Urban Menace as a whole), good to know.
“Maybe Trump had a good bugout plan, and maybe his people could have carried it out less half-assed than Biden’s. Or not. But we’ll never know because the loser lost reelection.”
Riiiiiiiiight. I’m sure the 2020 election was exactly as above-board and trustworthy as the Afghan Army and its leaders, just as I’m sure people who hysterically and unapologetically lie about the dangers of Russian influence totally wouldn’t do the same thing about election fairness.
“Gamerguy420, you know what the difference is between PT Barnum and a bum?”
Very little, unlike the permanently aggrieved Communist intellectuals who still cape for the last great revolution, they both tend to be human figures who work hard to play on the everyday emotions of the average man, tend to be easy to talk to, and are both more qualified to handle public relations than anyone who’s ever talked confident nonsense about SPREADING DEMOCRACY WORLDWIDE or SUPPORTING OUR INTERNATIONAL ALLIES or COUNTERING THE AUTHORITARIAN MENACE.
I get it, you personally failed to grow up and get properly cynical about state propaganda targeted at you till it was too late, and still haven’t really reached a point where you can speak and think in basic, understandable practical terms that any 19th century statesman would recognize. But you’ll get there!
Talleyrand69 (f91a34) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:27 amPresident Biden’s decision not to begin mass evacuations of Afghans months ago has left thousands of people in limbo.
If we had started a mass evacuation “months ago” (given the Biden Administration began in January), how do you think the Afghan population and government would react? I think pretty much the same way they reacted this week. There still would have been mass panic and Taliban advances, given that the Afghan Army and government pre-planned their surrender to the Taliban.
“Don’t worry, we are evacuating Afghan support staff because it might be unsafe for them to remain, but there is nothing to worry about.” There was no way mass evacuations of Afghan staff (and their families) could have been hidden, and the general population would have seen the writing on the wall.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:28 amFrosty, BuDuh asked what it would take to say Biden was worse then Trump. I answered his question. I don’t think Biden is worse then Trump overall. I do think Biden is responsible for a terribly executed withdrawal from Afghanistan and deserves tremendous criticism for that. Both can be True at the same time, but I don’t expect you’re ever going to understand that.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:28 amPence is full of it. The Taliban welshed on Trump’s terrible deal from the get-go.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:30 am127… America needs Generals.
The generals need corporal punishment.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:30 am……Did you drop “not violate the constitution” after he intentionally ignored SCOTUS on the eviction moratorium?……
The Supreme Court did not order the end of the eviction moratorium.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:30 amProbably worth being more clear.I don’t think the withdrawal from Syria and betrayal of the Kurds is of the same magnitude as our withdrawal from Afghanistan and betrayal of our allies there. Afghanistan is worse. But the withdrawal from Syria is the most analogous event from Trump’s presidency and based on that, as well as what we know of Trump’s started plans, i don’t see much evidence to support the idea that Trump would have done a better Job had he won re-election (or stolen the presidency) and pulled out in May. I thought it would have gone about like it is now.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:35 amSo, now Biden gets multiple impeachable offenses?
Every one has known a hot-headed, mealy-mouthed mick always ready to brawl ‘behind the gymnasium’ but ends up holding another’s coat and never quite getting to the saloon door. Ol’Uncle Sam can settle for a 3 minute round by the basketball court w/this Irish glass-jawboner.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:48 amRIP Joseph Galloway (79).
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 10:02 amThe country successfully got rid of tRump and replaced him with the competent President Biden.
So, when does this guy take office?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 8/19/2021 @ 10:08 amWho cares about Pence? If there is any so-called Republican disliked more by #Trump and #notTrump, I don’t know who it might be.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 8/19/2021 @ 10:14 amBreaking-
Police respond to bomb threat near US Capitol
Capitol Police Chief Tom Manger said negotiators continue to try to come to a “resolution” with a man who says he has a bomb in a pickup truck.
Manger said in a news conference near the Capitol that the suspect had been live-streaming and that officials have a “possible name” but added “we don’t have much information about him at this time.”
Video has been posted on Facebook by the suspect, a law enforcement official tells CNN. CNN is not yet naming the suspect. A video that lasts about a half hour shows an individual from inside a truck, holding a canister that he says is a bomb and speaking about a “revolution.”
…….
You say you want a revolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
You tell me that it’s evolution
Well, you know
We all want to change the world
But when you talk about destruction
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 10:20 amDon’t you know that you can count me out
……..
There was no way mass evacuations of Afghan staff (and their families) could have been hidden, and the general population would have seen the writing on the wall.
These people evacuated themselves and came to Kabul a week or two ago. We could have been loading them on planes for a while now. We could have told the Afghan government officials they they would not leave until everyone else did, and let them figure it out.
Instead, we let the Afghani government demand we not do any evacuating, to avoid undermining them, while they themselves were lining their pockets and planning their escape. The collapse started at the top.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 8/19/2021 @ 10:22 am@152: Remember the guy with the bomb at the Washington Monument?
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 8/19/2021 @ 10:24 amR.I.P. Joe Galloway.
Journalist.
=mike-drop=
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/19/2021 @ 10:31 amjust came to check if there were any crazy ted cruz tweets today
guess not
JF (e1156d) — 8/19/2021 @ 10:42 amThese people evacuated themselves and came to Kabul a week or two ago.
The argument is that the evacuations should have started months ago.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 10:43 amjust came to check if there were any crazy ted cruz tweets today
guess not
JF (e1156d) — 8/19/2021 @ 10:42 am
The day is young.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 10:45 amjust came to check if there were any crazy ted cruz tweets today
guess not
His wife probably forgot to unlock his phone when she left for work in the morning.
nk (1d9030) — 8/19/2021 @ 10:49 amUK Parliament holds Biden is contempt over Afghanistan
steveg (ebe7c1) — 8/19/2021 @ 10:59 amBritsh trying to find Afghan commandos thay trained to rescue them and their families.
British pissed that they sent their young men and money to help us after 9-11 and then we do this.
Good look with that next “Coalition of the Willing” ya muddlers
steveg (ebe7c1) — 8/19/2021 @ 11:02 amRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:30 am
So Biden did not say they needed congressional approval for another moratorium and when they didn’t get it Biden did it anyway? And when Biden did it he did not say it would likely get struck down but he was doing it to spend the money before it was?
frosty (f27e97) — 8/19/2021 @ 11:02 amSTEPHANOPOULOS: Let’s get right to it. Back in July, you said a Taliban takeover was highly unlikely. Was the intelligence wrong, or did you downplay it?
BIDEN: I think — there was no consensus. If you go back and look at the intelligence reports, they said that it’s more likely to be sometime by the end of the year. The idea that the tal — and then it goes further on, even as late as August. I think you’re gonna see — the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and others speaking about this later today.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But you didn’t put a timeline on it when you said it was highly unlikely. You just said flat out, “It’s highly unlikely the Taliban would take over.”
BIDEN: Yeah. Well, the question was whether or not it w– the idea that the Taliban would take over was premised on the notion that the — that somehow, the 300,000 troops we had trained and equipped was gonna just collapse, they were gonna give up. I don’t think anybody anticipated that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But you know that Senator McConnell, others say this was not only predictable, it was predicted, including by him, based on intelligence briefings he was getting.
BIDEN: What — what did he say was predicted?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator McConnell said it was predictable that the Taliban was gonna take over.
BIDEN: Well, by the end of the year, I said that’s that was — that was a real possibility. But no one said it was gonna take over then when it was bein’ asked.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So when you look at what’s happened over the last week, was it a failure of intelligence, planning, execution or judgment?
BIDEN: Look, I don’t think it was a fa– look, it was a simple choice, George. When the– when the Taliban — let me back — put it another way. When you had the government of Afghanistan, the leader of that government get in a plane and taking off and going to another country, when you saw the significant collapse of the ta– of the– Afghan troops we had trained — up to 300,000 of them just leaving their equipment and taking off, that was — you know, I’m not– this — that — that’s what happened.
That’s simply what happened. So the question was in the beginning the– the threshold question was, do we commit to leave within the timeframe we’ve set? We extended it to September 1st. Or do we put significantly more troops in? I hear people say, “Well, you had 2,500 folks in there and nothin’ was happening. You know, there wasn’t any war.”
But guess what? The fact was that the reason it wasn’t happening is the last president negotiated a year earlier that he’d be out by May 1st and that– in return, there’d be no attack on American forces. That’s what was done. That’s why nothing was happening. But the idea if I had said — I had a simple choice. If I had said, “We’re gonna stay,” then we’d better prepare to put a whole hell of a lot more troops in.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But your top military advisors warned against withdrawing on this timeline. They wanted you to keep about 2,500 troops.
BIDEN: No, they didn’t. It was split. Tha– that wasn’t true. That wasn’t true.
STEPHANOPOULOS: They didn’t tell you that they wanted troops to stay?
BIDEN: No. Not at — not in terms of whether we were going to get out in a timeframe all troops. They didn’t argue against that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So no one told — your military advisors did not tell you, “No, we should just keep 2,500 troops. It’s been a stable situation for the last several years. We can do that. We can continue to do that”?
BIDEN: No. No one said that to me that I can recall. Look, George, the reason why it’s been stable for a year is because the last president said, “We’re leaving. And here’s the deal I wanna make with you, Taliban. We’re agreeing to leave if you agree not to attack us between now and the time we leave on May the 1st.”
I got into office, George. Less than two months after I elected to office, I was sworn in, all of a sudden, I have a May 1 deadline. I have a May 1 deadline. I got one of two choices. Do I say we’re staying? And do you think we would not have to put a hell of a lot more troops? B– you know, we had hundreds– we had tens of thousands of troops there before. Tens of thousands.
Do you think we woulda — that we would’ve just said, “No problem. Don’t worry about it, we’re not gonna attack anybody. We’re okay”? In the meantime, the Taliban was takin’ territory all throughout the country in the north and down in the south, in the Pasthtun area.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So would you have withdrawn troops like this even if President Trump had not made that deal with the Taliban?
BIDEN: I would’ve tried to figure out how to withdraw those troops, yes, because look, George. There is no good time to leave Afghanistan. Fifteen years ago would’ve been a problem, 15 years from now. The basic choice is am I gonna send your sons and your daughters to war in Afghanistan in perpetuity?
MORE: Afghanistan updates: Taliban fighters harass Afghans seeking to enter Kabul airport
STEPHANOPOULOS: That’s–
BIDEN: No one can name for me a time when this would end. And what– wha– wha– what– what constitutes defeat of the Taliban? What constitutes defeat? Would we have left then? Let’s say they surrender like before. OK. Do we leave then? Do you think anybody– the same people who think we should stay would’ve said, “No, good time to go”? We spent over $1 trillion, George, 20 years. There was no good time to leave.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But if there’s no good time, if you know you’re gonna have to leave eventually, why not have th– everything in place to make sure Americans could get out, to make sure our Afghan allies get out, so we don’t have these chaotic scenes in Kabul?
BIDEN: Number one, as you know, the intelligence community did not say back in June or July that, in fact, this was gonna collapse like it did. Number one.
STEPHANOPOULOS: They thought the Taliban would take over, but not this quickly?
BIDEN: But not this quickly. Not even close. We had already issued several thousand passports to the– the SIVs, the people– the– the– the translators when I came into office before we had negotiated getting out at the end of s– August.
Secondly, we’re in a position where what we did was took precautions. That’s why I authorized that there be 6,000 American troops to flow in to accommodate this exit, number one. And number two, provided all that aircraft in the Gulf to get people out. We pre-positioned all that, anticipated that. Now, granted, it took two days to take control of the airport. We have control of the airport now.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Still a lotta pandemonium outside the airport.
BIDEN: Oh, there is. But, look, b– but no one’s being killed right now, God forgive me if I’m wrong about that, but no one’s being killed right now. People are– we got 1,000-somewhat, 1,200 out, yesterday, a couple thousand today. And it’s increasing. We’re gonna get those people out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But we’ve all seen the pictures. We’ve seen those hundreds of people packed into a C-17. You’ve seen Afghans falling–
BIDEN: That was four days ago, five days ago.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What did you think when you first saw those pictures?
BIDEN: What I thought was we ha– we have to gain control of this. We have to move this more quickly. We have to move in a way in which we can take control of that airport. And we did.
https://abcn.ws/3iYh9K8
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 11:15 amGeneral tso chicken had a better chance in Afghanistan.
mg (8cbc69) — 8/19/2021 @ 11:19 amIt’s an indication of how bad this is when Georgie S. – reliable Media Monkey fellator of Democrats – actually asks a few important questions of Biden. Not the usual tongue bath.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 11:21 amIt appears something is wrong with Biden’s Brain.
Oh no
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 11:31 amOh no
Oh no, no, no, no, no!
“What I thought was we ha– we have to gain control of this. We have to move this more quickly. We have to move in a way in which we can take control of that airport. And we did.”
I wonder if it might,, maybe have been better not to abandon the airport before needing to use it.
Bagram AFB is the Kabul Airport.
So lets get this part straight. It was Trump who set the withdrawal schedule and even though he is a dunce, Biden looked at Trumps plan over the last 5 months and said “Yeah, lets do it that way. Of course it is a great idea to get the Ambassador out of Dodge and then shut Bagram down, turn the lights off, BEFORE we evacuate all American citizens and our allies here. YES.”
Even if it was Trump’s plan (which I doubt) anyone who agreed to this sequence of events, or who bungled it into this sequence of events should be fired.
steveg (ebe7c1) — 8/19/2021 @ 11:43 amI’ve been fired from a project because my men left a couple to go coffee cups in the garden in a place that was within view of the owners wife over a weekend (its the kind of thing my guys are never supposed to do because rich people often spend a lot of money on their quirks, some love tidiness to extreme and pay for people who are trained to keep everything pristine) I deserved to be fired, because it was my men, my company, my breakdown in training and execution to the specifications of the owner.
160.UK Parliament holds Biden is contempt over Afghanistan
Loser’s Lament ol’bean:
‘First Anglo-Afghan War; Second Anglo-Afghan War; Third Anglo-Afghan War…’
Thin edge of the wedge, wot?!
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/19/2021 @ 11:51 amEvacuation for near-79 year old brain-damaged mick is a bowel movement.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/19/2021 @ 11:55 amInsane in the Joe Brain
Who you trying to get crazy with ése?
Don’t you know I’m loco?
To those who be dissin’ my plan
I’ll just toss that ham in the frying pan
Toe jam, taste good when it’s spread on Spam
Damn, makes me feel like the Son of Sam
Don’t make me talk sh*t, man up
Shriveled scrotum sweats, drink a cup
Hey, the lights are blinking, I’m thinking
I’m Irish so I’ll go out drinking
No! It make my mind slow
That’s why I can’t fu*k with the big 4-O
I’m Prez, I got to maintain
‘Cause a laddie like me is going insane
Insane in the Joe brain
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 12:01 pmInsane in the brain
Insane in the Joe brain
Insane in the brain
Insane in the Joe brain
Crazy insane, got no brain
Insane in the Joe brain
Insane in the brain
The Biden Administration’s Afghanistan message, in six words.
The libertarian, but not Libertarian, Dana (3867c9) — 8/19/2021 @ 12:03 pm137. frosty (f27e97) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:15 am
Trump reversed himself on total wothdrwal, and didn’t trap anyybody behind eneemy lines – the Kurds just lost territory.
The question is why they did it. I suppose it was on te premise that the Afghanistan army would try to stop them, or anrgily attack them. Or was it to keep it secret from the Taliban?
It was a tactical decision. They didn’t announce, either before or after that they had left the way they did. This had to be learned from the media who learned about it from the Afghan military. I think it has yet to explained.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2021/07/06/us-left-bagram-airfield-night-without-warning-afghan-military-says/7871154002
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 12:21 pmRE menu item/post #164 they’d better get used to eating it, although fish heads and fried bat may be the MRE dream meal of the next boss/sucker.
urbanleftbehind (ef1779) — 8/19/2021 @ 12:25 pm128. Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:50 am
While this can be the case if we are talking about different matters, I think that if someone is a lunatic, they are NOT a cynic, and if someone is ignorant they can boldly endorse lunacy without thinking it is lunacy, and therefore not in their interest, in the long run, to endorse.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 12:30 pm“Exit question, Patterico’s Pontifications readers: Will anyone in the Biden Administration be fired or forced to resign over this fiasco?”
We can narrow it down; it won’t be any Irish-Catholics, or the women or the blacks, or the brown-skinned, or the LGBTQ crowd. So figure any non-Catholic, straight-white males have targets on their back.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/19/2021 @ 12:43 pm“Trump reversed himself on total wothdrwal, and didn’t trap anyybody behind eneemy lines – the Kurds just lost territory.”
Well, and hundreds of deaths.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey-usa/thousands-flee-hundreds-reported-dead-in-turkish-attack-on-u-s-allied-kurds-in-syria-idUSKBN1WP0VH
Davethulhu (aa6793) — 8/19/2021 @ 12:47 pmBIDEN: I think — there was no consensus. If you go back and look at the intelligence reports, they said that it’s more likely to be sometime by the end of the year.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/17/us/politics/afghanistan-biden-administration.html
In the print edition of the New York Times, page A9, Thursday,August 19, 2021, there is an article whose headline reads:
It’s actually a different article:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/18/us/politics/afghanistan-intelligence-agencies.html
The second one (maybe not yet printed) also has two new co-authors, Mark Mazzetti and Adam Goldman in addition to Julian E. Barnes.
The web page for the article with the headline that they did not predict it says the article was published on August 17 and updated Aug. 19, 2021, 7:41 a.m. ET, which is after, of course, it went to press. It must have been updated several times, since the print edition has the George Stephanopoulos question and I think the text is identical with that in the August 19 newspaper.
Even thid old article, which says intelligence agencies did not predict the swift collapse says:
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 12:56 pmTo fire someone, even as a scapegoat, you first have to say something was done wrong. I don’t think anyone will be fired, any more than anyone was fired after the Bay of Pigs. President Kennedy aIS HW accepted full responsibility, and appointed a committee headed by General Maxwell D. Taylor, and including Attorney General Robert Kennedy, Admiral Arleigh Burke and the Director of Central Intelligence Allen Dulles to study governmental practices and programs in the areas of military and paramilitary, guerrilla and anti-guerilla activity which fell short of outright war.
Of course the blunder there was they felt an invasion would violate “international law” and they wanted to keep it a covert operation, in the end not throwing enough force into it to succeed. They relied on this idea that a spontaneous rebellion would start.
Here is a timeline:
https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/bayofpigs/chron.html
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 1:14 pmThe Taliban may not fear American military intervention soon, but it’s been pointed out they will be wanting foreign aid and access to the Afghan government monetary reserves. Do the people in charge have the capability of driving a hard bargain and not giving them everything, or a great deal, at once?
A comparison has been made to Uganda in 1986 and Rwanda after the genocide. It wasn’t particularly good people who took charge.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/19/world/asia/taliban-foreign-recognition.html
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 1:25 pm176. That is right. There was a battle.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 1:26 pmfrosty (f27e97) — 8/19/2021 @ 11:02 am
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:30 am
So Biden did not say they needed congressional approval for another moratorium and when they didn’t get it Biden did it anyway? And when Biden did it he did not say it would likely get struck down but he was doing it to spend the money before it was?
Goal post moving. I was responding to a comment that Biden was defying the Supreme Court. The SC has not ruled on the merits of the eviction moratorium. In fact the SC denied to stay the moratorium.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 1:35 pmBiden did not speed up the visa processing too much because he indeed was afraid of being criticized by immigration hawks:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/18/us/politics/afghanistan-refugees.html
https://www.businessinsider.com/biden-admin-worried-optics-resettling-afghans-peter-meijer-2021-8
Another place where Biden has let the bureaucracy let time run out, in spite of campaign promises to help, is with the winners of the diversity lottery, who have one year after winning to get to the United States. Some of have sold houses etc. The Democrats did agree to abolish in in 2013, but that bill never passed.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 1:41 pmMan claiming to have bomb near U.S. Capitol is in custody after standoff, police say
For the third time in nine months, Washington was brought to a standstill Thursday as the seat of the U.S. government came under the threat of political violence, this time from a man who parked a truck near the Capitol, demanded to speak with President Biden about a range of grievances and threatened to destroy two blocks of the nation’s capital with an explosive device.
Congressional office buildings and nearby homes were evacuated as authorities negotiated with the man, identified by law enforcement as Floyd Ray Roseberry, of North Carolina. Roseberry surrendered to authorities after about five hours and will face criminal charges, U.S. Capitol Police Chief J. Thomas Manger said.
Before he was taken into custody, he delivered a tirade over a Facebook live video — watched by tens of thousands of people — in which he assailed President Biden and other Democrats, called for a revolt against the U.S. government and claimed there were other “patriots” waiting in vehicles elsewhere in D.C.
…….
“The revolution is on, it’s here, it’s today,” he said in his livestream. “America needs a voice. I’ll give it to them.”
Roseberry voiced disgust with Biden’s Afghanistan policy and called on Democratic senators to step down, saying they were “killing America.” He demanded to speak with the president.
……..
“I’m here for a reason, Joe Biden. I’m here for the American people. And if you want to take me out, take me out. But when the patriots come, your a– is in trouble,” Roseberry says in the video. “So if you blow my truck up man, it’s on you, Joe. I’m ready to die for the cause.”
He said he had a wife, whom he had told he was going fishing through Sunday, as well as two children and a grandchild. At one point, he showed piles of coins in the back of the truck and said he threw $3,000 in cash onto a sidewalk.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 1:51 pm……..
@163
Come one man! It was all of a sudden. He had no way to know about the deal Trump made back in Feb.2020.
frosty (f27e97) — 8/19/2021 @ 1:53 pmSTEPHANOPOULOS: But you didn’t put a timeline on it when you said it was highly unlikely. You just said flat out, “It’s highly unlikely the Taliban would take over.”
BIDEN: Yeah. Well
frosty (f27e97) — 8/19/2021 @ 1:56 pmThis is all on the dumb-assed, brain-damaged Irish-Catholic mick. Not Trump. Not Obama. Not Dubya nor Bubba or any other POTUS.
The imbecile should have stepped up, did a balls-out presser w/t media and owned it like JFK did after greenlighting Ike’s Bay of Pig plan that went south as ‘the responsible officer of the government.’ He owes that to the American people, to our NATO allies- hell, to the whole damn world. Billions of dollars in equipment abandoned; our ‘enemies armed’ by U.S.taxpayers; tens of thousands of people stranded. And chaos was his plan?
Malarkey.
Instead, the stuttering, lying, word-parsing pool of puss thinks he can bullsh!t his way through this by shoveling incoherent blarney in one-on-one TeeVee interviews, blaming others like he was shoveling senate manure as the motor-mouth man from Delaware; a swamp creature with 50 years of experience.
He ran away. His credibility and that of the United States totally shot.
He’s not only a bum.
He’s a coward.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/19/2021 @ 2:00 pmOne must believe that people will believe what they see – and have seen – with their own eyes and not the laughable spin the Biden administration and friendly media have been vomiting.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 2:04 pmjust came to check if there were any crazy ted cruz tweets today
guess not
JF (e1156d) — 8/19/2021 @ 10:42 am
May be not Ted Cruz, but Darling Nikki has a crazy tweet:
I guess Darling Nikki missed Trump’s endorsement of the Taliban.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 2:07 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 1:35 pm
You’re playing word games. No one thought the executive branch had the authority to issue a moratorium without congressional approval after the SCOTUS case. Biden explicitly stated that. Congress agreed and tried to pass legislation. They didn’t “find” the authority until after congress failed to give them the authority.
SCOTUS allowing the previous moratorium to expire instead of killing it was a bad idea. It opens the door for these sort of semantic games.
This is like failing your driving test and claiming you don’t have anything that says you aren’t licensed to drive.
frosty (f27e97) — 8/19/2021 @ 2:11 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 1:35 pm
You’re playing word games. …..
I’m playing factual games.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 2:20 pmAs far as the moratorium goes, my personal opinion is that they should have booted everyone out onto the street 5 minutes after it expired. But the sad fact is that evictions take many months to execute.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 2:22 pmGoing way back up to 2. Seen on twitter:
ANYONE WITH HALF A BRAIN’S AFGHANISTAN SHUTDOWN PLAN
* Wait until the winter season begins to suppress Taliban operations
* Maintain intel network and airpower operations for Afghan military
* Evac Level 2 civilians (NGO’s, charities, etc.)
* Evac Level 1 civilians (USG personnel)
* Evac vetted Afghan nationals
* Spike/disable heavy arms, transport and other at-risk equipment
* Evac US military personnel
* Terminate Kabul International Airport operations
* Terminate Bagram Airbase operations
THE BIDEN TEAM’S AFGHANISTAN SHUTDOWN PLAN
* Terminate Bagram Airbase operations
TW2021 (824a6b) — 8/19/2021 @ 2:29 pm* Shut down intel network and airpower operations for Afghan military
* Evac US military personnel
* “Magic”
Bless your heart, RIP! Keep digging and find that damn pony!
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 2:39 pmMemo to Nikki:
American brassholes are nothing new; which is why General Short parked the planes together at Hickham; why Lee orderd Pickett to charge at Gettysburg; and why Westmorland confused the light at the end of the tunnel with an on-coming train.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/19/2021 @ 2:39 pmColonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 2:04 pm
Given the evidence over the last 20+ years I’d say this is unreasonably optimistic.
frosty (f27e97) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:03 pm192. That plan consciously turns Afghanistan over to the Taliban. And there’d be plenty of Afghans who deserve to get taken out, by any criteria, who wouldn’t be taken out.
Biden’s plan relied on negotiations. That was the “Magic”
Dustin @12 is right:
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:04 pmMeanwhile mitch and rona be loving being the minority, big money time for contributions from the uneducated elite.
mg (8cbc69) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:05 pmInterview of Donald Trump. Tuesday, A
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:08 pmAug 17, 2021:
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-sean-hannity-interview-on-afghanistan-august-17-transcript
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:09 pmThe humiliation is what gets to Donald Trump, not the humanity.
Donald Trump on what he tried to do and what he was going to do.
He was going to deter the Taliban:
How can you have both conditions and a fixed date?
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:20 pmjoe cellar has the plan of the century, Sammy.
mg (8cbc69) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:24 pmSammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:20 pm
It’s called a target date and it’s not that unusual. I’m not sure why it’s giving you so much trouble. A simple example, I’m going to get my hair cut tomorrow as long as nothing comes up at work. I’m on complicated projects all the time that have multiple contingencies and a target date.
frosty (f27e97) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:27 pmWhile others purposely missed the entirety of the speech that your source selectively quoted.
Odd a non-partisan source like Mediaite would leave Trump’s threat out of the quote they chose.
BuDuh (fdd65e) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:35 pmThe Trump administration, also in February of 2021, released a separate statement with important bullet points:
Biden really botched this up.
BuDuh (fdd65e) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:43 pm196
TW2021 (824a6b) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:44 pmAnd Biden’s “plan” didn’t?
And Biden’s “plan” got out the Afghans who deserved to get out?
Nope and Nope
Wonder how all those redneck Trump voters are going to react when they find out how much ammo Biden just gifted the Taliban.
frosty (f27e97) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:44 pm…..If bad things happen, we’ll go back. I let the people know: We’ll go back and we’ll go back so fast, and we’ll go back with a force like nobody has ever seen. And I don’t think that will be necessary. I hope it’s not necessary.
That was never going to happen.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:49 pmjoe cellar is trying to make sure the taliban has the same amount of weapons as us farmers.
mg (8cbc69) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:49 pmBuDuh:
I included your highlighted quote here.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:51 pmSee also here. Trump had no intention of going back, it was just bluster.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:54 pmUh huh…
BuDuh (fdd65e) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:55 pmLet me get this correct. Surrender joe has given the taliban an Air Force!!
mg (8cbc69) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:57 pmYour hyperlink didn’t take me to the transcript, or even a quote, from his complete speech from Feb 2020. You might want to look at my link first.
BuDuh (fdd65e) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:58 pmRip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:49 pm
Probably. Doesn’t matter. The deal seemed to be going fine until Biden decided to change it. If Biden had actually went with Trump’s plan there’d be some truth to “we’re just going with the previous admins plan” however pathetic that is.
But Biden is also lying when he says his hands are tied by Trump’s plan since he changed the plan when he took office.
frosty (f27e97) — 8/19/2021 @ 3:59 pmTrue, the British have had centuries of practice bugging out of places and leaving an unholy mess behind them. But it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re better at it than we are.
nk (1d9030) — 8/19/2021 @ 4:11 pmI think the situation was that Donald Trump had one plan, and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo had another.
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/19/2021 @ 4:12 pmCharm offensive: What the Taliban said as they escorted me out of an Afghan city
Malicious Ted Cruz tweet in 4, 3, 2, 1…..
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 8/19/2021 @ 5:10 pmThe Big Lie.
BuDuh (fdd65e) — 8/19/2021 @ 5:13 pm@192 this makes a lot of sense. Wonder why they went a different way.
Time123 (e5b03b) — 8/19/2021 @ 5:20 pmLike I was saying …
nk (1d9030) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:03 pmGee if only there was a group of people who cared about this kind of thing when Trump did it, and when Biden did it, consistently. Golly.
Trump is only vindicated in the dumbest, most emotional way. Biden had a huge failure, and Biden recently kicked Trump’s ass. But obviously if you had a problem with Americans betraying Afghani and Kurdish allies, or making deals with the Taliban, or being too generous to tyrants, or disrespecting our nation’s commitment long term, neither of these guys look good.
But hey, keep up the dumb sarcasm. It isnt going to win Trump a single 2020 vote. Biden beat Trump. Trump lost the presidency to a guy who could barely talk. If Trump had done a good job, he could have won that election but … he didn’t. The sooner the GOP gets over it, the sooner they can find a leader who wouldn’t have helped the Taliban at all, instead of being a little less bad than Biden.
One can dream.
dustin (8d5210) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:03 pmConditions and dates are easy.
steveg (ebe7c1) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:10 pmHere is our date where we start to withdraw which is also the date where if you take one step forward all your stuff goes boom
SteveG, I like your thinking, except Trump didn’t really do that to Syria or North Korea or Turkey. If he did, then I’d really like your thinking instead of in the ‘This Tom Clancy book is fun’ kind of way.
Trump blew up that Solieami salami guy (probably with a tip from Iran’s government). But beyond that isolated and safe action, when did Trump take a risk by standing up to the bad guys? Anytime the Norks rattled their saber, Trump did what?
dustin (8d5210) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:12 pmHow many US Presidents have been held in contempt of UK Parliament?
steveg (ebe7c1) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:15 pmWagner Group?
steveg (ebe7c1) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:16 pmWorth reading: Peter Wehner’s essay on Biden, even though Wehner doesn’t completely answer his own question: “Why is the president so consistently wrong on major foreign-policy matters?”
Or this question: Why is Biden, a devout Catholic known for his empathy, so callous toward the foreign friends he abandons?
Heck, he even likes dogs, unlike his predecessor.
(More and more, I am glad that I didn’t vote for Trump or Biden.)
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:32 pmNot voting for Trump was a vote for Biden no matter which 2nd tier candidate, write in, or blank vote you made. A vote for Trump was the only way to stop Biden.
It is fine by me to hate both of them, but you don’t really have clean hands .
BuDuh (dffef1) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:40 pmMore from the leader of the free world…
STEPHANOPOULOS: I– I think a lot of– a lot of Americans, and a l– even a lot of veterans who served in Afghanistan agree with you on the big, strategic picture. They believe we had to get out. But I wonder how you respond to an Army Special Forces officer, Javier McKay (PH). He did seven tours. He was shot twice. He agrees with you. He says, “We have to cut our losses in Afghanistan.” But he adds, “I just wish we could’ve left with honor.”
BIDEN: Look, that’s like askin’ my deceased son Beau, who spent six months in Kosovo and a year in Iraq as a Navy captain and then major– I mean, as an Army major. And, you know, I’m sure h– he had regrets comin’ out of Afganista– I mean, out of Iraq.
He had regrets to what’s– how– how it’s going. But the idea– what’s the alternative? The alternative is why are we staying in Afghanistan? Why are we there? Don’t you think that the one– you know who’s most disappointed in us getting out? Russia and China. They’d love us to continue to have to–
STEPHANOPOULOS: So you don’t think this could’ve been handled, this exit could’ve been handled better in any way? No mistakes?
BIDEN: No. I– I don’t think it could’ve been handled in a way that there– we– we’re gonna go back in hindsight and look, but the idea that somehow there’s a way to have gotten out without chaos ensuing, I don’t know how that happens. I don’t know how that happened.
I don’t know about you, but I feel reassured. I mean, he’s bonkers.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:42 pm#227 “Not voting for Trump was a vote for Biden no matter which 2nd tier candidate, write in, or blank vote you made.”
No, because my state, Washington was going to go for Biden, no matter what I did. (Biden beat Trump here by 58 to 39 percent.) It would have been a much harder decision had I been in a swing state.
Incidentally, until Trump came along, Republicans controlled Washington’s state senate, in an alliance with two dissident Democrats. And that had important policy consequences.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:56 pmThanks, Jim. I was going to read Wehner a day or two ago and forgot. I liked this part.
After some initial reticence, Biden was on board with bombing Libya, a monumental clusterf-ck that helped create Benghazi along with general Islamist chaos in that country. Another example of his foreign policy wrongness.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 8/19/2021 @ 6:58 pmBTW, I’m feeling better and better about my protest vote for Larry Hogan, a Republican. There was no way I could vote for Biden for policy reasons, and no way for Trump for character reasons.
How many US Presidents have been held in contempt of UK Parliament?
None? The only “original source” I find that in is a Telegraph headline behind a paywall.
nk (1d9030) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:00 pmIncidentally, until Trump came along
professional wrestling style speech from a President was deemed beyond the pale.
norcal (a6130b) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:01 pmAs bad as this situation is over there, it hasn’t gotten anywhere near how bad it is likely to get. And the negative impacts to so many areas of foreign policy, our advanced technologies, military operations, our standing in the world, and relationships with our allies is the long term stuff that may change things in unforeseen ways.
Biden may resign or be removed before EOY. It looks like this may be the path the Obama people and whoever else is actually running the show have chosen to grease the skids for the ascension of Harris. IMO.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:17 pm#233 “Biden may resign or be removed before EOY.”
If you believe that strongly, you can go over to Britain and place a bet on it. (You can find some odds here.)
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:27 pmWASHINGTON, Aug 19 (Reuters) – A senior Biden administration official said on Thursday that U.S. policy on Taiwan had not changed after President Joe Biden appeared to suggest the United States would defend the island if it were attacked, a deviation from a long-held U.S. position of “strategic ambiguity.”
In a interview aired by ABC News on Thursday, Biden was asked about the effects of the chaotic U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan and responses in Chinese media telling Taiwan this showed Washington could not be relied on to come to its defense.
Biden replied that Taiwan, South Korea and NATO were fundamentally different situations to Afghanistan and appeared to lump Taiwan together with countries to which Washington has explicit defense commitments.
“They are … entities we’ve made agreements with based on not a civil war they’re having on that island or in South Korea, but on an agreement where they have a unity government that, in fact, is trying to keep bad guys from doin’ bad things to them,” he said.
“We have made – kept every commitment. We made a sacred commitment to Article 5 that if in fact anyone were to invade or take action against our NATO allies, we would respond. Same with Japan, same with South Korea, same with – Taiwan. It’s not even comparable to talk about that.”
A senior Biden administration official said U.S. “policy with regard to Taiwan has not changed” and analysts said it appeared that Biden had misspoken.
China’s embassy in Washington and Taiwan’s representative office did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/us-position-taiwan-unchanged-despite-biden-comment-official-2021-08-19/
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:30 pmI’m hope I’m wrong, but at some point, maybe a few weeks from now, the Americans stuck in Kabul and other Afghan backwaters won’t be “trapped Americans”, they’ll be hostages, and there will be a price for their exit.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:31 pmCol, if that’s the case…
urbanleftbehind (ef1779) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:32 pm1. Di Fi will/should retire possibly tomorrow, enabling Gavin-Be-Gone a Senate Appt before 9/14
2. Pray for Ron Johnson, Pat Toomey, Susan Collins, both Louisiana sens, both NC sens, both KS sens, even Rand Paul. Supposedly, MMC can bottle up the Senate and its choosing of the next VP if VP Harris herself vacates that tie breaking vote once ascended to POTUS. The above are R Sens serving in Dem-Gov states.
Miller @7:27pm…
In memory of my Doncaster-born grandmother, and in the spirit of your unsolicited suggestion, you can bugger off.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:33 pmPaul – You’re more than welcome — and I appreciate your reminder about Libya.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:41 pmIf Trump had never won in 2016, Afghanistan would probably be a safe place today. It was Trump who pushed as hard as he could to help the Taliban regain power. It was insane, it sounds insane, yet Trump invited the Taliban to Camp David on 9.11, cut our allies out of negotiations, freed plenty of Taliban and gave them their leader. Trump pushed hard for the USA to leave Afghanistan as part of his weirdo vendetta against Bush, and also partly because that helps the USA’s enemies (which is consistent with Trump’s behavior towards the Kurds, towards North Korea, among other places.
The only folks who really have clean hands here are the nevertrumpers who have been consistent on these issues. Trump fanatics didn’t care if Trump did this to the Kurds, and they wouldn’t care today if Trump were president and abandoned our allies in Afghanistan. They wishcast this fantasy that Trump could have handled this tough situation beautifully, but have no examples of trump ever succeeding at anything (the guy lost money with a casino… he is inept).
Nothing I say about Trump can take an ounce of blame off Biden. Biden did not have to follow Trump’s general direction of abandoning Afghanistan, and he didn’t have to handle it criminally poorly. Biden probably did handle it worse than trump, and I only say that because statistically it would be hard to do this bad if you tried. But we don’t really know. We only know that this is Biden’s fault, and Trump fans only seem to care about it insomuch as it’s a reason to do their favorite thing: praise Trump.
Why didn’t you care about the Kurds, if you care about this?
dustin (b69787) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:41 pm@238 Colonel Haiku, whence the vitriol?
norcal (a6130b) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:43 pmAnd there’s this, again from
teh TelegraphReutersUK lawmakers condemn PM Johnson and U.S. President Biden over Afghanistan
ANGER AT BIDEN
The speed of the Taliban’s gains after U.S.-led forces withdrew the bulk of their troops from Afghanistan surprised the West, leaving many nations having to scramble to get their diplomats and Afghans who had helped them out of the country.
Several lawmakers on Wednesday focused on the U.S. decision to withdraw – a move which Johnson admitted left Britain with no choice but to pull out its own forces – and Biden’s subsequent criticism of Afghan forces’ surrender.
Tom Tugendhat, a Conservative lawmaker and chairman of parliament’s Foreign Affairs Select Committee who himself served in Afghanisan, told the hushed chamber that he, like other veterans, felt anger and grief.
“I’ve watched good men go into the earth, taking with them a part of me, and a part of all of us,” he said.
“To see (Biden) call into question the courage of men I fought with, to claim that they ran, is shameful. Those who have never fought for the colours they fly should be careful about criticising those who have.”
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/pm-johnson-says-britain-will-do-all-it-can-prevent-afghan-crisis-2021-08-18/
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:44 pmThe good
BuDuh (fdd65e) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:46 pmGermanWashingtonian.Norcal @7:43pm… huh?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:46 pmTrump did damage the GOP fundamentally, as one Trump fanatic says all the time, that’s “glorious” to those guys.
Unfortuantely I guess the problem isn’t that simple. Both parties are clearly much dumber than they were in the 1990s. The nation is more desperate, politics is almost entirely about proving you oppose the other side the mostest and most purest.
So now Biden gets to damage his party. I guess it’s going to even out, except western civilization is paying for it. The GOP permitting Trump to be nominated is a turning point in our history.
dustin (b69787) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:47 pm@244 Why were you so caustic with Jim Miller? Is there some context I’m not aware of?
norcal (a6130b) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:49 pmHere I give Haiku a chance to make some money (assuming he is right) — and he gets crude. Perhaps I should have mentioned that he can also make those political bets in Ireland with, for example, Paddy Power.
Incidentally, foreigners were betting millions on our last presidential election.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:52 pmThe numbers are off… what time stamp norcal?
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:53 pmColonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:33 pm
norcal (a6130b) — 8/19/2021 @ 7:58 pmOh… it appears my attempt at humor to match your jesting didn’t work, Mr.Miller.
Incidentally, foreigners were betting millions on our last presidential election.
Democrats have been accepting foreign “campaign” donations since WJ Clinton, at least. Obama worked some sort of credit card grift to secure foreign donations.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:02 pmBreaking : The Bum At One
President Plagiarist to address the nation at 1 PM EDT Friday on his Afghanistan disaster before running off to Wilmington to go back on vacation.
Get ready for more ‘existential’ malarkey and blarney… =knock on wood=
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:02 pmI don’t blame Haiku. Biden is really awful and it sucks to see an awful and unworthy leader tarnish your country’s reputation and future.
Anyone who was warning us not to elect Biden is surely really frustrated and saddened to see Biden do such a bad job. No sarcasm here.
But nevertrumpers definitely felt that way for four years, and I don’t think Trump’s fans were very fair about listening to why.
That’s why I ask… why didn’t you guys give a crap about Trump and Baradar, or Trump and the Kurds, or Trump and stimulus, or Trump and his dumb lying about COVID, or frankly his lying about everything.
Doesn’t take an ounce of blame off Biden today to say that they were both entirely unworthy. And Biden fans (if such a thing exists) really don’t have Trump as a defense any more than Trump fans have Biden as one. It doesn’t matter that one was bad. The other was bad.
This binary crap is the best thing that ever happened to America’s enemies. we’re seeing that live.
dustin (b69787) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:05 pmIn any case, I’ll be saying a prayer for our folks that have been stranded, and the nationals that helped our effort, as naive as that appears in retrospect.
Shameful.
Colonel Haiku (2601c0) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:06 pm@250 Oh, it was humor. My bad.
norcal (a6130b) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:06 pm#245 dustin -I have been thinking similar thoughts recently, about the loss of talent in both parties. One of the reasons for it, I suspect, is the end of the Cold War. Talented people are less willing to sacrifice by going into politics, and voters are less serious about their choices. Something similar happened after our Civil War.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:07 pmDoesn’t take an ounce of blame off Biden today to say that they were both entirely unworthy.
dustin (b69787) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:05 pm
This. All day long.
Just call balls and strikes, and let the chips fall where they may. It’s quite liberating.
norcal (a6130b) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:09 pmDoes bugger off really mean something crude? To me it is a silly expression.
Honestly, I might take the bet. I don’t think Biden will be in office for his whole term. He was borderline on election day, and this is a very high pressure job. They shielded him from the burden for a while, and there’s no doing that now. Biden is, ever minute he is awake, feeling it. Ruined a whole country that our people paid dearly for.
dustin (b69787) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:12 pmThis pretty well explains the hand I believe Trump was dealt with the Kurds:
https://www.cato.org/commentary/stealth-commitment-how-syrian-kurds-became-us-allies
BuDuh (fdd65e) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:14 pmIt doesn’t matter that one was bad. The other was bad.
Sorry- you don’t get a pass w/t “other guy is just as bad argument,” dustbinman.
This puddle of puss was supposed to be competent in the ways of moving the institutional levers of government with 50 years of swamp creature experience.
Turns out he’s a bigger fvck-up than the inexperienced, bombastic, corner-cutting, capitalist with the entertaining PT Barnum act of recent years. But those of us who’ve seen Convoy Joe railroading ‘folks’ w/his ‘here’s the deal’ malarkey over half-a-century tried to warn you about his habitual bull-slinging blarney.
He’s not only a bum. He’s a coward.
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:24 pmWhy is this crap on my screen? Oh no my bad, it’s the old crazy racist who secretly wants to sleep with ronald reagan.
dustin (b69787) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:25 pmFascinating insight. I’ll chew on that a bit, as it’s optimistic in a weird way, compared to my perspective.
dustin (b69787) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:27 pm7:46 PM – Well, I try to be good — and flatter myself by thinking that I succeed, occasionally. But I am only half German (If that. There is a rumor in the family that one of my ancestors way back when was a French woman.) And, for those who care — I don’t — a quarter English and a quarter Danish.
I was, however, born in the Evergreen state, and live here now. And, like Teddy Roosevelt, I’m not big on hyphenated Americans. In the last two censuses, when I came to the race question, I checked “other” and then specified “American”.
Jim Miller (edcec1) — 8/19/2021 @ 8:51 pmThe state of Washington seems overly represented on this site. We have Victor, Paul Montagu, and Jim Miller. Am I forgetting anyone?
Meanwhile, I don’t see anybody from Oregon, and I appear to be the only Nevada representative. (Yes, I should have been more thoughtful before choosing a geographical name all those years ago when I lived in San Francisco.)
Odd.
norcal (a6130b) — 8/19/2021 @ 9:03 pmThe Washinton State bureau emerged as the Philly* and South Florida bureaus disappeared.
*TDIK covers some PA/Philadelphia news though.
urbanleftbehind (263e66) — 8/19/2021 @ 10:02 pm@260. Welcome to the 1970’s, dusty boy. Inflation, gas lines, malaise, incompetence, hostages, hot pants, hijackings, pet rocks… You know what else was popular then?
Disaster movies.
And you’ve got a front row seat for this one. There’s even Corn to Pop!
DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 8/19/2021 @ 10:49 pm218.
“soon: AFTER
But nit BEFORE
How is this a prediction of what happened?
They also were trying to discourage the Taliban from taking over.
https://www.sweetwaterreporter.com/news/us-vows-to-isolate-taliban-if-they-take-power-by-force/article_a28a47a4-f9f5-11eb-8403-0f298f4ddb73.html
Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c) — 8/20/2021 @ 3:44 amAnd by your “logic”, not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump. This belies understanding of the Electoral College.
Paul Montagu (5de684) — 8/20/2021 @ 4:37 amDustin & Jim, I think the making the culture war the key element in our politics is a huge part of the problem. Getting things done and accomplishments aren’t the path to advancement. Media attention is.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 8/20/2021 @ 5:17 amBecause it didn’t help their tribe. If you want to know what they would say if Trump were president look at what they said about the Kurds. The severity of the issue is different, but the arguments will be the same. Or you can look at what they say about letting refugees come here. Ingram was pretty clear about that.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 8/20/2021 @ 5:20 amTime123 (9f42ee) — 8/20/2021 @ 5:20 am
There’s a bit of confirmation bias and selective definitions of “they” going on in some of his posts. When your version of “why didn’t you give a crap when” really means why don’t you align with me on every single issue and never deviant from the orthodoxy complaining about other people being tribal is a bit hypocritical.
In Dustin’s case he takes a fairly extreme version of “give a crap”. Calling someone tribal for not going with “Trump’s a Russian mole” isn’t a damning criticism.
For example, I criticized Trump’s handling of Syria and the Kurds at the time but because I wasn’t in the “OMG he needs to be shot for this” camp I’m guessing Dustin includes me in his “didn’t give a crap” list.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 8/20/2021 @ 5:17 am
Do you include viewing everything through a lens of race and answering any criticism of a policy with charges of racism, sexism, or homophobia part of making the culture war? Or are those part of the getting things done side of the coin?
frosty (f27e97) — 8/20/2021 @ 6:04 amDidn’t intend that to be directed at you. I have no idea what you said about the Kurds or if Dustin was talking about you. You can look up if you had things to say about that and decide for yourself if you’re being consistent here.
Yes, Left wing tribalism and identity politics is also annoying, off-putting and a generally worthless lens through which to view the world. Like the right wing version it’s also practiced mostly by dumpster people.
Time123 (9f42ee) — 8/20/2021 @ 6:45 am