Patterico's Pontifications

5/19/2021

Houses Passes Bill To Form Commission To Investigate Jan. 6 Events

Filed under: General — Dana @ 4:30 pm



[guest post by Dana]

This afternoon:

The House on Wednesday voted 252-175 to create an independent commission to investigate the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol, but the bill faces a different landscape in the Senate, where it needs at least 10 Republicans and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell opposes it.

Republican opposition coalesced against the bipartisan legislation hours before the House vote, which passed largely along party lines. There were 35 GOP House members who voted in favor of the bill.

The House can pass the bill with only Democratic support and is expected to do so Wednesday, but at least 10 Republicans are needed in the Senate.

Rep. Tim Ryan directed his ire at Republican lawmakers during the debate portion, making a solidpoint:

“Benghazi — you guys chased the former Secretary of State all over the country, spent millions of dollars,” Ryan said, referring to Hillary Clinton. “We have people scaling the Capitol, hitting the Capitol Police with lead pipes across the head and we can’t get bipartisanship. What else has to happen in this country?”

He added, “We need two political parties in this country that are both living in reality and you ain’t one of them!”

Reminder: More than 440 people have been charged so far with participating in the attack, which left five dead.

Absolutely spot-on from Rep. Peter Meijer:

The Republican Party should fill its ranks with Peter Meijers. Unafraid, and willing to stand by his vote because right is right, even if will cost him down the line.

–Dana

144 Responses to “Houses Passes Bill To Form Commission To Investigate Jan. 6 Events”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (fd537d)

  2. Please fix your incorrect statement that follows:

    More than 440 people have been charged so far with participating in the attack, which left five dead.

    NJRob (0047fc)

  3. It’s amusing how many Trump supporters want to minimize or whitewash the events of January 6th.

    The same thing happens in the Mormon church regarding the sordid parts of its history (polygamy, exclusion of blacks from the priesthood, etc.).

    norcal (1aafb8)

  4. ‘There is no replacement for an independent, bipartisan commission with a mandate to produce a definitive public report to clear away the myths & fictions & get right on the facts. We must have accountability for what occurred on Jan. 6 to move on & heal as a nation. — Rep. Peter Meijer (@RepMeijer) May 19, 2021)

    The Republican Party should fill its ranks with Peter Meijers’

    Peter Meijer is just 33 years old.

    He outta finish his peas & carrots, first— and then go do some homework, starting with 1964:

    ‘Four of the seven members of the Warren Commission, Boggs, Cooper, McCloy, and Russell, had serious doubts regarding the conclusions of the commission that the President and Governor Connally were both wounded by the “magic bullet” and regarding the view that Oswald had acted alone. In the years [nearly six decades] following the release of its report and 26 investigatory evidence volumes in 1964, the Warren Commission has been frequently criticized for some of its methods, important omissions, and conclusions.

    In 1992, following popular political pressure in the wake of the film JFK, the Assassination Records Review Board (ARRB) was created by the JFK Records Act to collect and preserve the documents relating to the assassination. In a footnote in its final report, the ARRB wrote: “Doubts about the Warren Commission’s findings were not restricted to ordinary Americans. Well before 1978, President Johnson, Robert F. Kennedy, and four of the seven members of the Warren Commission all articulated, if sometimes off the record, some level of skepticism about the Commission’s basic findings.’ -source wikiscatterbrainsbythegrassyknoll.org.

    So much for “clearing away” ‘the myths and fictions and get right on the facts,’ eh, Pete?!

    “This country and its institutions belong to the people who inhibit it.” – Billie Dawn [Judy Holliday] ‘Born Yesterday’ 1950

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  5. 491 people have been charged in the Capitol insurrection so far. This searchable table shows them all.

    I don’t know what kind of schools they have in New Jersey, but the Chicago Public Schools taught me that 491 is more than 440.

    nk (1d9030)

  6. It really should be bipartisan.

    But in the absence of a loyal opposition, the Democrats have to push forward with an accounting, anyway. Those who infest the corpse of the Republican party will gnash and wail, of course, at the unfairness of it all.

    But there must be an official investigation and accounting. As just one of many details, there were obviously “insider” elements to the 1.6 threat, and the public deserves to know what happened and what is being done to fix that vulnerability.

    john (cd2753)

  7. 4 people died at Benghazi, including the ambassador. The charge was that the administration failed to take actions which would have saved them.

    This is a different thing entirely.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  8. I think the Senate will pass some version of this as well, 65-35 or so. Not sure what they’ll change from the House version, but they have to change something, if only to save face.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  9. @5. “But in the new approach, as you know, the important thing is to understand what you’re doing rather than to get the right answer.” – Tom Lehrer, ‘New Math’ 1965

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6OaYPVueW4

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  10. But in the absence of a loyal opposition

    That is tantamount to calling the GOP traitors. Is that what you mean?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  11. FBI Washington Field Office Releases New Videos of Suspects in Violent Assaults on Federal Officers at U.S. Capitol, Seeks Public’s Help in Identifying Them

    The FBI’s Washington Field Office has released two new videos of suspects in violent assaults on federal officers during the riots at the U.S. Capitol on January 6, 2021, and is seeking the public’s help to identify them. The two new videos depict suspects #106 and #134, who are seen in the new videos forcefully attacking law enforcement officers.

    In the new videos, suspect #106 is shown attempting to rip off an officer’s gas mask, then picking up a tactical baton and hitting officers with it. Suspect #134 is seen punching officers while wearing gloves with metal knuckles.
    ………
    Yeah, just a normal tourist visit to the Capitol.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  12. ‘There is no replacement for an independent, bipartisan commission with a mandate to produce a definitive public report to clear away the myths & fictions & get right on the facts.

    The problem should be obvious. “Independent bipartisan” forms the core of an oxymoron. I think if we really wanted to get to the bottom of it, we’d let the Greens and Libertarians run the investigation.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  13. It seems that too many Republicans consider their mission to be to white wash the events of January 6, and to defend the former president. It’s uncanny how much sway and influence a cheap grifter has had over the republican party and continues to have.

    Dana (fd537d)

  14. Here are 4 common charges. People do these all the time and are rarely prosecuted.

    Knowingly entering any restricted building or grounds;
    disorderly conduct in any restricted building or grounds;
    disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds;
    parading on Capitol grounds

    There are other changes involving violence, destruction or terrorist acts that ought to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, but that 491 number seems inflated by things that protesters do at SOTUs with the help of sympathetic congressmen.

    And “parading on Capitol grounds”??? Really???

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  15. Capitol rioter allegedly boasted about pushing female police officer down the stairs as the ‘coolest thing I’ve done’

    A Florida man (Daniel Paul Gray) has been arrested and charged for violence at the Capitol insurrection, including pushing a female police offer, something the suspect allegedly said was “the coolest thing I’ve ever done”.
    ………
    He allegedly bragged about his involvement in the events on 6 January on an Instagram video seen by the FBI. His account has been since set to private……..
    …….
    “A female cop stole my phone and I got mac’d… and I’m like, you know what, we’re doing this and so we literally pushed them from the front steps of the Capitol all the way back,” Mr Gray allegedly said in the video, according to an FBI statement. Authorities also captured footage of Mr Gray on police body cameras.

    Mr Gray recounts his encounter with police on the steps, who by his account told him, “Hey stand down, there’s too many of us. Go home, go find your wives, go find your kids, you don’t want to do this.”

    Mr Gray’s alleged act of aggression against the female officer, who he had spoken to previously, came after he barged into Speaker of the House of Representatives Nancy Pelosi’s office.

    “We started pushing the police out of the back of the Capitol. We pushed them from the front to the back of the Capitol.

    “This is by far from over, that was the coolest thing I’ve done in my life, so stayed tuned,” Mr Gray said in the video.
    ……….
    Ah, vacation memories. Gray is also charged with:

    *Obstruction of justice/Congress;

    *Knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building of grounds without lawful authority;

    *Knowingly engaging in disorderly or disruptive conduct in a restricted building or grounds;

    *Engaging in acts of physical violence against any person or property in any restricted building;

    *Violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds;

    *Engaging in an act of physical violence in the grounds of any of the Capitol buildings;

    *Parading, demonstrating, or picketing in a Capitol building;

    *Forcibly assaulting, resisting, opposing, impeding, intimidating or interfering with a designated person while that person is engaged in the performance of official duties; and

    *Obstruction of law enforcement during civil disorder.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  16. It’s uncanny how much sway and influence a cheap grifter has had over the republican party and continues to have.

    Reaganoptics.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  17. A Florida man (Daniel Paul Gray) has been arrested and charged for violence at the Capitol insurrection, including pushing a female police offer, something the suspect allegedly said was “the coolest thing I’ve ever done”.

    Real class act there.

    Dana (fd537d)

  18. So it was a black/brown male/female cop who shot and killed white woman and veteran Ashli Babbitt?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  19. 19: Say her name!

    Gary K Hoffman (2a3a16)

  20. NJRob (0047fc) — 5/19/2021 @ 4:58 pm
    You’re right, Rob, Dana was incorrect. The actual number charged for their illegal behavior on insurrection day is 491.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  21. Actually, Dana is correct because 491 is more than 440.
    It’s good to know that only 17% of the House Republicans want to know the whole truth about the 1/6 insurrection, while the rest are buckled under their Mar A Lago Master. My how my GOP has fallen.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  22. “move on and heal”

    meijer has captured exactly what this commission isn’t about

    JF (e1156d)

  23. Meanwhile, packs of Arab Muslims are roaming Los Angeles, attacking Jews. Our media? Crickets.

    Wake me when Democrats are as concerned with rampant Asian and now Jewish hate crimes. In addition to the summer of leftwing violence in 2020.

    Frankly, at this point, the GOP should stonewall the 1/6 Commission until Democrats are held as responsible for their wing as Democrats are trying to hold Republicans.

    Hoi Polloi (b28058)

  24. #9, Is Antifa and/or Portland an acceptable Karnac answer? 1 org in 1 city might be the right “bone”.

    urbanleftbehind (10d5cc)

  25. ‘My how my GOP has fallen.’

    Nelson Rockefeller couldn’t have said it better.

    Welcome to 1964.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  26. 24, tell your J friends to call the Crips or Grape Street…they’re not as “international left” as the other gang(s) and have ties to Chicago’s own Star of David wearing Gangster Disciples.

    urbanleftbehind (10d5cc)

  27. “More than 440 people have been charged so far with participating in the attack, which left five dead.”

    false

    the attack left one dead only — babbitt

    natural causes left three dead, a drug overdose left one other dead

    JF (e1156d)

  28. ’33 year old Peter Meijer represents Grand Rapids, Michigan [the district once held by Warren Commission member and former POTUS, Gerald Ford]. He is the oldest son of Hank Meijer and the grandson of supermarket chain founder Frederik Meijer, whose parents emigrated to the United States from the Netherlands. Forbes has recognized his family as one of the wealthiest in Michigan, with a net worth above $6 billion. His financial disclosures list more than $50 million in assets, primarily from a Meijer family trust.’ – source, wikibio

    The last thing the GOP needs is its ‘ranks filled’ w/more millionaires/billionaires.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  29. the attack left one dead only — babbitt

    natural causes left three dead, a drug overdose left one other dead

    Spin.

    nk (1d9030)

  30. lol someone o.d.’s on a drug and it’s attributed to the attack

    so this is what the commission is all about

    quite a search for truth

    JF (e1156d)

  31. 24, tell your J friends to call the Crips or Grape Street…they’re not as “international left” as the other gang(s) and have ties to Chicago’s own Star of David wearing Gangster Disciples.
    urbanleftbehind (10d5cc) — 5/19/2021 @ 6:38 pm

    If asked I would advise them to exercise their Second Amendment rights.

    Hoi Polloi (b28058)

  32. he House on Wednesday voted 252-175 to create an independent commission to investigate the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.

    That’s just over 59%, and means they got some Republicans, But it originated in the House and the House had about 51% Democrats.

    at least 10 Republicans are needed in the Senate.

    That;s just one fifth (20%) of the number of Republicans. The 35 Republican members of the House was just about 15% or 16% – but the Senate is less partial to Donald Trump and his election claims, or to the rioters.

    The thing about this is, it would probably actually absolve Donald Trump of responsibility for the riot, even if it showed him to be dishonest and grasping at straws.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  33. natural causes left three dead, a drug overdose left one other dead

    One Capitol Police suicide was because of severe pain from the head injury inflicted by devout Trump supporters. Another police suicide was also a result of the violent Trumper attack. And it’s quaint how Trumpers swear up and down that it was purely “natural causes” that led Brian Sicknick to feel ill right in the middle of the attack by violent Trumpers, after being sprayed with bear spray.

    Gotta keep defending the innocence of the people who were chanting “hang Mike Pence” and talking about “civil war” and executing “traitors.”

    Radegunda (aea52f)

  34. lol someone o.d.’s on a drug and it’s attributed to the attack

    I think a lot of people learned things about themselves that day that they would have been better off not learning. More than the five who did not survive the experience. More than the “short bus” people.

    nk (1d9030)

  35. Exactly who would the Republicans subpoena?

    Hunter Biden. Duh.

    lurker (59504c)

  36. so this is what the commission is all about
    quite a search for truth

    There’s a lot to be seen and heard in the abundant video record, but Trumpers say we should ignore it all because — squirrel! — someone has a video of a police officer opening a door, and it supposedly proves that there was no violent incursion at all.

    The commission is unlikely to find anything that didn’t actually happen. Trumpers are certain to keep trying to obfuscate or bury whatever new facts do come out, just as they’ve been trying to do with what’s already known.

    Radegunda (aea52f)

  37. 19: Say her name!

    Gary K Hoffman (2a3a16) — 5/19/2021 @ 6:07 pm

    Here’s another name you should say: Donald Trump! If not for him and his pro wrestler gaslighting show, she’d still be alive.

    norcal (1aafb8)

  38. five did not die as a result of the attack

    this is a fact

    if you can’t acknowledge that, then spare us your farcical search for truth

    JF (e1156d)

  39. I’ll tell you all something right now, even if it offends some comrades here. I have more respect (and sympathy) for the “short bus” people who went into the trenches for Trump on 1/6 than I do for the Denny’s habitues minimizing it long distance with no clue of what it was really like — only that their Great Pumpkin cannot be allowed to look bad.

    nk (1d9030)

  40. Just eat your waffles!

    nk (1d9030)

  41. five did not die as a result of the attack

    this is a fact

    Two officers committed suicide as a result of the attack. Officer Sicknick almost certainly died as a result of the attack. To pretend that those deaths were just coincidentally timed is to be indifferent to facts.

    I expect some Trumpers to insist that the brain injuries and cracked ribs etc. suffered by police officers were not a result of the beatings shown on numerous videos, as some Trumpers are busy asserting that the violent incursion we see on video didn’t happen at all.

    Radegunda (aea52f)

  42. @38. Here’s another name you should say: Ronald Reagan! If not for him and his gilded, Hollywood ‘Bedtime-For-Bonzo’ gaslighting show on a credit card by way of Warner Bros., there’d have been no cesspool spawn Donald Trump– and she’d still be alive.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  43. I’m not hung up on whether five died or one died.

    Even if nobody died, what happened on January 6th (encouraged by Trump telling the attendees to “take back the country”) was despicable. It was an attempt to overturn an election so that a malignant, narcissistic cult leader could remain in power. Why, DJT isn’t a loser! He said so himself!

    I used to think banana republics were confined to the banana belt.

    norcal (1aafb8)

  44. To borrow some words from nk:
    I have more respect (and sympathy) for the “short bus” people who went into the trenches for Trump on 1/6 than I do for the highly educated people who assert that what we can see and hear on video is all a nefarious media narrative designed to hurt Trump and smear his supporters.

    Radegunda (aea52f)

  45. cesspool spawn Donald Trump

    I agree with DCSCA on this one.

    norcal (1aafb8)

  46. I used to think banana republics were confined to the banana belt.

    Think again: The original Banana Republic was founded in 1978. Gap Inc. acquired Banana Republic in 1983. eventually rebranding it as a mainstream luxury clothing retailer. The literate articles, hand-drawn catalog, and eccentric tourist-oriented items were phased out and were replaced with more luxurious, but not unique, items for which the brand is currently known. – source, Yuppiecrap.overpriced.crud

    Reaganomics. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  47. 3.5 out of 10 on that one, DCSCA

    norcal (1aafb8)

  48. five did not die as a result of the attack

    Ashli Babbitt died in the act of storming a Capitol barrier, who died because Trump lied.
    I’m pretty sure the woman who was trampled to death died as a result of the attack.
    With Officer Sicknick, the medical examiner concluded that “all that transpired [at the Capitol] played a role in his condition.”

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  49. It was an attempt to overturn an election so that a malignant, narcissistic cult leader could remain in power.

    He also told us ahead of time that he would not accept defeat as a legitimate result. The Trumpers all said it was hysterical to think he wouldn’t — and then when he didn’t, they started saying that he shouldn’t. And they tried to supply a factual basis for their hero’s narcissistic delusion that he couldn’t possibly lose.

    Radegunda (aea52f)

  50. @40 tell us about your tours in iraq

    JF (e1156d)

  51. the scolding of 74 million will continue until national healing improves

    JF (e1156d)

  52. @40 tell us about your tours in iraq

    Just eat your cronut!

    nk (1d9030)

  53. I agree with DCSCA on this one.

    Nah! DCSCA knows better. Donald Trump is the spawn of Brezhnevism which abandoned the Revolution for a perpetual intermediate phase doomed to collapse from within.

    nk (1d9030)

  54. DCSCA, I was expecting something from you about Biden plagarizing a Reagan speech. Let me know if you’re not familiar. It’s DCSCA gold.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  55. the scolding of 74 million will continue until national healing improves

    JF (e1156d) — 5/19/2021 @ 8:37 pm

    As if all 74 million believed Trump’s lies.

    As for the ones who did, I agree. They need to be healed.

    norcal (1aafb8)

  56. ““move on and heal”

    meijer has captured exactly what this commission isn’t about””

    Who are you quoting?

    Davethulhu (0ac567)

  57. I see it now.

    Davethulhu (0ac567)

  58. I see, you need me to read the post for you

    JF (e1156d)

  59. He also told us ahead of time that he would not accept defeat as a legitimate result.

    Radegunda (aea52f) — 5/19/2021 @ 8:35 pm

    Yes. He said the same thing in the runup to the 2016 election, but he won that one, so the election was legitimate! See how it works? Heads I win, tails you lose.

    Trump is the most preposterous liar since the “tis but a scratch” Black Knight.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmInkxbvlCs

    norcal (1aafb8)

  60. What must irk him, too, as well as his acolytes*, is how so many times more people took to the streets for George Floyd than they did for him.

    *acolyte, from the Greek akolouthos meaning “follower”

    nk (1d9030)

  61. nk,

    I have agape for your sense of humor. (How’s that for throwing out some Greek?)

    norcal (1aafb8)

  62. Thank you, norcal.

    And since we’re on the subject of language, shouldn’t women principals be called princesspals?

    nk (1d9030)

  63. @54. … and Putin smiled. 😉

    @55. “Plane lands safely at JFK”; ‘here’s the deal, man:’ plagiarism isn’t news in these days thanks to you-know-who, Dustin.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  64. @63 That works! Whatever they’re called, I just hope people spell it correctly. I see sentences like this all the time: “That would violate my principals.” Oh, you’re the district superintendent now?

    norcal (1aafb8)

  65. Who gives Angela Merkel more gas; President Plagiarist or President Putin?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  66. I don’t know what kind of schools they have in New Jersey, but the Chicago Public Schools taught me that 491 is more than 440.

    nk (1d9030) — 5/19/2021 @ 5:28 pm

    Your gaslighting attempt notwithstanding, it’s bogus and why you tried to take the easy way out by not quoting the full remark.

    I do have some questions for you with the way you’ve been attacking Israel and their right to defend themselves lately. Do you think Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish state or do you believe people that chose to abandon their homes because they expected Israel and Jews to be wiped from the map have the right to return to those homes and then vote for the end of Israel?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  67. The left is going to try and push the same anti-American propaganda as they did when they held George W Bush on trial for war crimes in the basement to shore up their delusional base. The radical left will not stand for anything but the end of the United States of America.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  68. @68. Royalists gotta royal.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  69. NJRob@68,

    Yes, the left has its crazies. So does the right. The trick is to sort through the spin and hysteria emanating from both.

    norcal (1aafb8)

  70. Here are the 35 Republican representatives who chose America over Trump:

    Bacon (NE)
    Bentz (OR)
    Bice (OK)
    Cheney (WY)
    Curtis (UT)
    Davis, Rodney (IL) – House Administration Committee ranking member
    Fitzpatrick (WI)
    Fortenberry (NE)
    Garbarino (NY)
    Gimenez (FL)
    Gonzales, Tony (TX)
    Gonzales (OH)
    Guest (MS)
    Herrera Beutler (WA)
    Hill (AR)
    Hollingsworth (IN)
    Jacobs (NY)
    Johnson (SD) – House Republican Conference Vice Chair
    Joyce (OH)
    Katko (NY) – Homeland Security Committee ranking member
    Kinzinger (IL)
    McKinley (WV)
    Meijer (MI)
    Miller-Weeks (IA)
    Moore (UT)
    Newhouse (WA)
    Reed (NY)
    Rice (SC)
    Salazar (FL)
    Simpson (ID)
    Smith (NJ)
    Taylor (TX)
    Upton (MI)
    Valadao (CA)
    Womack (AR)

    Dave (1542be)

  71. Oops, my mistake – Mike Johnson (LA) is the Conference Vice Chair, and it was Dusty Johnson (SD) who voted for America.

    Dave (1542be)

  72. Frankly, at this point, the GOP should stonewall the 1/6 Commission until Democrats are held as responsible for their wing as Democrats are trying to hold Republicans.

    Hoi Polloi (b28058) — 5/19/2021 @ 6:30 pm

    The difference I see is that the leaders of the democratic party, Biden, Harris, Pelosi etc. are disliked by their lunatic fringe. Berne was their candidate, not Biden or Harris. Biden returns the favor and has made a clear distinction that violence has no part of peaceful protests. I wish he would be stronger in his denunciation of Antifa, but something is better then nothing.

    The lunatic right loves Trump and has taken over the party. Trump loves them back and has made that clear over and over again.

    Simple Graphic

    Antifa/The Squad———–Mainstream Left/Biden——-Mainstream Right/Romney——–Far Right/Trump

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  73. Dana, I think your post is factually inaccurate as NJRob pointed out in comment 2. (See below)

    Babbit died as a direct result of the terrorist attack she participated in and two men may have had heart attacks related to it. But I think your statement doesn’t give the reader an accurate perception of what happened and a correction is in order.

    Please fix your incorrect statement that follows:
    More than 440 people have been charged so far with participating in the attack, which left five dead.
    NJRob (0047fc) — 5/19/2021 @ 4:58 pm

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/07/capitol-riot-deaths-cause-death-released-4-5-not-sicknick/7128040002/

    • Ashli Babbitt, 35, died by homicide from a gunshot to the left shoulder. She was shot by a Capitol police officer while trying to climb through a door near the House chamber.

    • Kevin Greeson, 55, died of natural causes from cardiovascular disease. Greeson, of Athens, Alabama, had a Twitter account in which he supported former President Donald Trump and profanely denounced his opponents.

    • Benjamin Phillips, 50, died of natural causes from cardiovascular disease. According to the Philadelphia Inquirer, Phillips of Ringtown, Pennsylvania, was a computer programmer who founded a social media website for Trump supporters. He had organized a trip of several dozen people to the district.

    • Roseanne Boyland, 34, died by accident from acute amphetamine intoxication. Boyland, of Georgia, wanted to be a sobriety counselor and followed QAnon conspiracies, her family said.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  74. The left is going to try and push the same anti-American propaganda as they did when they held George W Bush on trial for war crimes in the basement to shore up their delusional base. The radical left will not stand for anything but the end of the United States of America.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/19/2021 @ 10:54 pm

    Antifa and the Jan 6 rioters are violent anti-Americans.

    Our constitution, bill of rights, and democratic government are to me the core of what American is.

    Trump, still the leader of the GOP, is dishonestly trying to convince anyone that will listen that the election was stolen and our democracy is too corrupt to honestly select a president. When presented with evidence that this theories are wrong is accuses those involved in the process of being part of the conspiracy. His lies motivated hundreds of people to assault the capital in a riot that resulted in at least one death. The GOP base believes the lie fully and most elected reps are unwilling to push back. I don’t think anyone involved in that or supporting that really cares about my country.

    I understand your concerns about culture. I disagree with them in many cases but I think I understand them, and i accept then as legitimate, if wrong. I want to let the political process peacefully determine what we do, just like we have for 200+ years. Over 400 Trump supporters violently attacked the US capital to stop the election certification and the leader of the GOP continues to tell the lie that motivated them.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  75. @49 “I’m pretty sure the woman who was trampled to death died as a result of the attack.”

    No one was trampled to death.

    You can’t even get the facts straight.

    JF (e1156d)

  76. Paul, JF is right, no one was reported as trampled to death that I’m aware of.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  77. I stand corrected, Time.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  78. Paul, there was a lot of early reporting that needed to be corrected as our understanding of the situation developed. Easy to make mistakes. There were numerous people trampled, but afaik none died.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  79. You can’t even get the facts straight.

    When I don’t, I fix ’em, JF. That’s what intellectually honest people do.
    Tell me how Babbitt and Sicknick didn’t die as a result of the riot.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  80. He might be right about Sicknick. I’m honestly not sure.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  81. He might be right about Sicknick. I’m honestly not sure.

    I quoted the medical examiner above, who said, “all that transpired [at the Capitol] played a role in his condition.” What this tells me is that he didn’t die of murder or manslaughter, but the folks who were in combat with Sicknick bear a measure of responsibility for his death.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  82. The statement that more than 440 have been charged and five died died as a result is a direct quote from the news report I linked to in the post (hence it being italicized).

    Dana (fd537d)

  83. Dana, it appears that you’ve quoted a news report that is providing information in a misleading way. Apologies if my comment accused you of trying to do so intentionally. That wasn’t my intent.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  84. 75. Time123 (f5cf77) — 5/20/2021 @ 4:59 am

    I want to let the political process peacefully determine what we do, just like we have for 200+ years.

    It took a Civil War 160 years ago to make that stick – and in the South there was a lot of political violence, and the threat of political violence – kept under some control (this is true) by the leaders of the instigators, who were well aware of what unremitting political violence could lead to and it wouldn’t leave them safe either – from around 1866 through about 1950.

    It included destruction of black communities from about 1898 through 1923.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  85. Fair points Sammy. Thank you

    Time123 (b0628d)

  86. Boston Tea party from the perspective of the British (who took their rule of the 7 seas and commerce port to port very seriously)

    steveg (ebe7c1)

  87. #82
    Role reversal for cops.
    Usually they are the ones arguing underlying conditions

    steveg (ebe7c1)

  88. Dana,

    I came to this website because of it’s history of challenging major media lies, aka fisking the Dog Trainer for pushing its agenda at the expense of the truth. That you quoted NBC without comment shows you don’t have an issue with it. Or would you be willing to correct the record?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  89. Rob, “more than 440 people have been charged so far with participating in the attack, which left five dead” is a true statement. It is a fact that more than 440 have charged, that four died at the scene and that the fifth who was in combat with rioters died the next day. There’s no record to “correct”. It is probable that all five would’ve been alive on 1/8 had Trump not invited his MAGAs to show up in Insurrection Day, with the tease that it would be “wild”.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  90. @90 a sure indication how this fact finding will go

    what a joke

    like saying elvis’s trip to the loo left one dead

    epstein’s arrest and incarceration left one dead

    prince philip’s trip to hospital left one dead

    JF (e1156d)

  91. 99. Paul Montagu (26e0d1) — 5/20/2021 @ 10:09 am

    . It is probable that all five would’ve been alive on 1/8 had Trump not invited his MAGAs to show up in Insurrection Day, with the tease that it would be “wild”.

    If there hadn’t been a crucial appearing vote caused by Donald Trump, the whole thing would not have happened.

    It was the organizers who used the word “wild” which was echoed by Donald Trump in a tweet two weeks before. He probably didn’t understand what was meant. He would say something he didn’t understand.

    Whatever was planned was all communicated privately.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  92. Paul, the construction of the sentence “more than 440 people have been charged so far with participating in the attack, which left five dead” implies a cause and effect relationship between the violent assault on our capital and the deaths that hasn’t been shown. The statement is technically accurate but misleading and doesn’t give the reader a full understanding of what happened. I’m not at all accusing dana of trying to mislead. But I think Rob is correct that clarification is warranted and would improve upon the quoted piece.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  93. The GOP is establishing its brand. 1/6, a violent attempt to reverse the outcome of the election, is special. The dems are using it cynically, but they actually should do that. The GOP should be in trouble for that. Ted Cruz, Rudy, Trump, all saying don’t go quietly, your nation is gone if you don’t stop the stolen election, 1/6 will be wild, it was wrong, period. We all saw those civil war t-shirts, and morons getting ready for violence. I wasn’t surprised a few people were killed. I was surprised it wasn’t much worse.

    An investigation into how the response was sand-bagged is interesting. Reactions that Kamala liked Antifa style rioting isn’t unfair, but it also doesn’t really mean much to me. Those kinds of encouragements also led to harm, but they weren’t an effort to reserve the outcome of an election. They aren’t the same thing. “both sides” doesn’t work.

    So the GOP wants its brand not to be “we had an embarassing lapse of loyalty to the country for a few weeks”. They want its brand to be “stop the steal” and “Ashli was a good guy.” So be it. The voters will decide if they want to give this GOP its power back. I can’t say one way or another if it’s a viable strategy. I only know it’s wrong.

    As for Dana’s ‘error,’ can someone explain that to me? Did one of the five people Trump’s little insurrection killed come back to life? Maybe someone out there believes Ashli and Sicknick would be dead today if Trump had conceded the election and thanked his supporters and moved on with his life. I find that belief ridiculous.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  94. The media knows the name/gender/race of ever cop who pops a citizen these days.

    So WHO popped Ashli Babbitt?

    Why are the Royalists keeping this a secret?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  95. NJrob, It’s nice to be on a similar page with you again. I recall agreeing with you a lot more a while back then I seem to now.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  96. well yeah, if two died from the attack then let’s just round up to five

    is that how it works?

    JF (e1156d)

  97. It was the organizers who used the word “wild” which was echoed by Donald Trump in a tweet two weeks before. He probably didn’t understand what was meant. He would say something he didn’t understand.

    That’s irrelevant, Sammy. Trump wrote the words, so he owns them, and it’s not productive trying to figure out what was going on in the head of an unstable idiot. He tweeted those words by his conscious choice.

    Paul Montagu (65d662)

  98. As for Dana’s ‘error,’ can someone explain that to me? Did one of the five people Trump’s little insurrection killed come back to life?

    Dustin,

    5 people died on / around the insurrection.

    1 was shot by an unnamed police officer while trying to climb over a barricade. She was clearly killed as part of the assault.

    2 had heart attacks and 1 an OD. Maybe they were caused by assault. I don’t know. Before we say the were I think more information is needed.

    Officer Sicknick died and I’m honestly not sure if it should be counted or not.

    But I think saying “the insurrection resulted in 5 deaths.” is misleading. That’s based on what I’ve been able to find. I might be wrong.

    If Patterico and Dana have taught me anything it’s that words have meaning, facts matter, and illegal immigrants commit more crimes then the average US citizen. I fought that last one tooth and nail in the comments and was wrong.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  99. Time123,

    it’s a matter of our priorities and focus. We can all agree that former President Trump is a distasteful person and has grotesque appetites. Where we disagree is what is important to the future of this country.

    I feel the focus needs to be on the way the radicals in the left are trying their hardest to start a race war and claim the nation must be toppled due to some original sin and systemic racism. I don’t feel focusing on Trump and attacking his supporters helps in that cause.

    Others feel Trump is a greater threat. I’ll never agree.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  100. 5 people died on / around the insurrection.

    Bingo

    But I think saying “the insurrection resulted in 5 deaths.” is misleading

    Disagree.

    Officer Sicknick died and I’m honestly not sure if it should be counted or not.

    Why? Trump killed Sicknick good and dead, plain and simple. Sicknick would be alive today if Trump had conceded the election, or backed off his nonsense as the civil war t-shirts and ‘stop the steal’ folks were told they had to fight or the nation would be lost. It is only as a result of heroism from these cops that the death count wasn’t greater.

    Like many, Sicknick had an eggshell skull problem. That is pretty foreseeable that if you bring a riot to ‘save’ the country, someone out there will not be up for stopping it and get hurt.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  101. Trump told us he imagined killing people and getting defended for it. I think he actually wanted to test that. I’m not joking. I think Trump’s a sick puppy and actually is proud he got away with murder, and I mean murder.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  102. Dustin, What about the 2 who had heart attacks and the one with OD? Did their actions in the assault contribute to their death? It’s not leading question. But if we don’t have some evidence I don’t think it should be asserted.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  103. Dustin, What about the 2 who had heart attacks and the one with OD? Did their actions in the assault contribute to their death? It’s not leading question. But if we don’t have some evidence I don’t think it should be asserted.

    Time123 (b0628d) — 5/20/2021 @ 11:38 am

    We do have evidence.

    Trump promised he could kill people and get away with it. as people lined up with civil war shirts, Trump and his pals told them to fight or they would lose their country. Trump amped it up and anyone knew that would kill people. It was intentional. Trump wanted people to die.

    during the violence, when Trump could have done something to stop it, he did not.

    If I shoot my gun into the next room and a person in it dies, that’s classic common law murder. If I say I could shoot someone on 5th avenue and get away with it, and then shoot my gun into the next room and someone in that room dies, that’s premedidated murder. If, while they bleed out, I cut all the phone lines so no one can call 911, that’s closer to what Trump did.

    We all watched this happen with far less information than Trump had. He wanted the death to occur. he is probably saddened it wasn’t a more historic bodycount.

    I cannot come within a light-year of why someone would say Sicknick’s death had nothing to do with the 1/6 events.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  104. Dustin,
    1. Trump is a garbage person and culpable for the riots.

    2. I’m looking for evidence that the riots contributed to the death from cardiovascular disease and drug overdose deaths. If you fire your gun, and the bullet hits doesn’t hit anyone, but they die of an OD. I’m not sure the death is your fault.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  105. more than 440 people have been charged so far with participating in the attack, which left five dead”

    440 people Attacked WHAT? Exactly, Who was ATTACKED? And one of those “five dead” was murdered by an unknown Policeman despite the fact the murder victim was unarmed, was committing no violence, and had not been warned of the threat of deadly force.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  106. Well, they attacked and injured over 140 police officers. Does that matter to you?

    https://www.police1.com/officer-safety/articles/police-union-over-140-officers-injured-in-capitol-siege-NSi5xcpt1sIELYvJ/

    Time123 (b0628d)

  107. Breaking through a police barricade is a violent act, ocean. Had she lived, she would’ve been criminally prosecuted on at least two counts.
    Trump lied and Babbitt died. By his non-stop lying for two months straight about a “stolen” election, the former guy bears some measure of responsibility for her pointless death.

    Paul Montagu (ff5eb7)

  108. 1. Trump is a garbage person and culpable for the riots.

    Well said.

    I’m looking for evidence that the riots contributed to the death from cardiovascular disease and drug overdose deaths. If you fire your gun, and the bullet hits doesn’t hit anyone, but they die of an OD. I’m not sure the death is your fault.

    Right, but if you fire and the person is hit, fault is obvious. trump wanted the riots to be wild. Sicknick was impacted directly by the riots. He had an eggshell skull. Even if it weren’t predictable someone in this huge, wild, violent riot would be weak, it’s no defense in my book.

    It is impossible to document which molecule of capsaicin touched off Sicknick’s deterioration, so there will always be some plausible curiousity about exactly how Trump killed him. but just the how. He did this. We’re very fortunate he only managed this. If Trump could kick off a massacre right this moment, I think he’d do it.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  109. Dustin,
    I’m not trying to argue with you about Sicknick. I just want to be certain that the events impacted the deaths of the other three. For instance if a heart attack happened while fighting with the police vs. 10 hours later after not really exerting themselves in the assault.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  110. Someone in this riot didn’t exert themselves? News to me. I bet it was intense.

    I am being hyperbolic, but I don’t think you’re wrong to want more certainty. A shame the democrats see 1/6 as a cynical way to get some juice out of the events, and the GOP doesn’t want any investigation of what happened on that day.

    This reminds me of DPS being criticized for Sandra Bland’s death in jail some time after her arrest. Our government, our leaders, they got involved, but they didn’t make anything better. And therefore I associate those leaders with the outcome. Could that kind of argument stand up in court? Probably not (but maybe). My thinking uses Trump’s own excited rhetoric. What did he want to happen when he said it was going to be wild? what did Rudy and Ted want, when they called for fighting? They wanted fighting. The very nature of this kind of riot makes it difficult to perfectly figure out what happened, but the harm did happen.

    I don’t really see this as equivilant to Harris praising riots from the fringe left, but the truth is that the standards for caring about the broken eggs for some politician’s fund-raising omelette are gone. All that matters is that ‘he fights’. It is important that this strategy doesn’t work very well. So I shift the burden.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  111. 110. Time123 (ca85c9) — 5/20/2021 @ 1:33 pm

    For instance if a heart attack happened while fighting with the police vs. 10 hours later after not really exerting themselves in the assault.

    I think strokes and heart disease could be linked to Covid.

    Otherwise maybe exertion.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  112. Maybe it was his shock over Benghazi.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  113. Dustin – perhaps they couldn’t bear to live in a world where Donald Trump wouldn’t be president for another four years?

    Dave (1542be)

  114. Thank goodness the so-called Republican Party is moving on, rather than “re-litigating” the 2020 election:

    Trump blasts McConnell as ‘hopeless,’ criticizes ‘weak’ Republicans who don’t push his election falsehoods

    Former president Donald Trump blasted Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) as “weak” and “hopeless” in an interview that aired Thursday on the right-wing One America News Network.

    Trump, who has been suspended or banned from several social media outlets, including his formerly preferred platform of Twitter, spent most of the interview pushing his baseless claims that the 2020 presidential election had been “rigged and stolen.” He faulted so-called “Republicans in Name Only” for not fighting hard enough on his behalf to advance his false claims of voter fraud.

    “The weak Republicans don’t want to talk about it — the weak or stupid or RINOs or call it whatever you want,” Trump said. “… If Mitch McConnell fought in the Senate for election integrity, you would have lots of vetoes coming out right now in the White House because you’d have a different president. But other than fundraising, he’s very weak.”

    Later in the interview, Trump also criticized McConnell for not standing up effectively against President Biden’s agenda.

    “[Democrats] get whatever they want approved. McConnell is hopeless and he can’t stop anything,” Trump said.

    The former president, who continued to insist incorrectly that he won the 2020 election, touted partisan efforts in Arizona to audit the election results in Maricopa County, which has spurred Trump loyalists to push for similar challenges to the 2020 election across the country.

    This is likely a preview of Trump’s soon-to-be-resumed MAGA rallies, starting in June…

    Dave (1542be)

  115. Radegunda (aea52f) — 5/19/2021 @ 7:29 pm

    And it’s quaint how Trumpers swear up and down that it was purely “natural causes” that led Brian Sicknick to feel ill right in the middle of the attack by violent Trumpers, after being sprayed with bear spray.

    It’s not quaint how people keep spreading false information.

    The Justice Department on Tuesday abandoned the idea that pro-Trump rioters had used bear spray against US Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick during the January 6 riot, a major change after implying for weeks that bear spray, not pepper spray, had been deployed.

    And

    Medical examiner Dr. Francisco Diaz didn’t note any evidence that Sicknick had an allergic reaction to the chemical spray

    You can imagine any sort of facts you want. Feel free to reject reality and substitute your own.

    frosty (f27e97)

  116. Business Insider:

    Donald Trump told his former White House doctor that he wants to run for a 2nd term in 2024

    Dana (fd537d)

  117. Trump lied and Babbitt died.

    Pfft. And Marina didn’t roll over– so JFK died, too.

    No Reagan. No Trump.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  118. Dana, I’m curious about your thoughts on how the number of dead were stated in the article that you quoted. I understand that you were not making an assertion based on your own investigation and were quoting ABC. But I’m curious if you have any response or thoughts?

    Time123 (c9382b)

  119. 114. Dave (1542be) — 5/20/2021 @ 5:29 pm

    perhaps they couldn’t bear to live in a world where Donald Trump wouldn’t be president for another four years?

    I think (former U.S. Attorney General) John Mitchell couldn’t bear to live in a world where George Bush would be president. (the elder)

    https://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/10/obituaries/john-n-mitchell-dies-at-75-major-figure-in-watergate.html

    https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1988/11/10/921688.html?pageNumber=1

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  120. Donald Trump told his former White House doctor that he wants to run for a 2nd term in 2024

    Dana (fd537d) — 5/20/2021 @ 5:51 pm

    Running for President is like sex. Once isn’t enough.

    norcal (081862)

  121. Trump said. “… If Mitch McConnell fought in the Senate for election integrity, you would have lots of vetoes coming out right now in the White House because you’d have a different president.

    And the same Congress? (notice that?)

    Bur actually, Republicans running for the Senate and House did better than Trump. And if he hadn’t insisted so hard that the election was stolen from him, there would probably be a 52-48 Republican majority in the Senate.

    Another distortion of the facts by Trump

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  122. @121. Indeed; Reagan screwed America plenty. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  123. Donald Trump told his former White House doctor that he wants to run for a 2nd term in 2024

    But then you read further, and he says Trump is “seriously considering” it.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  124. @123 Can you play any other notes?

    norcal (081862)

  125. @15. Sure! Why don’t you sing-a-long- they’re playing your song:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_j-8Q79U1qk

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  126. ^125

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  127. Norcal, he also has a bit where he calls Biden a plagiarist.

    Time123 (f5cf77)

  128. @128. That’s President Plagiarist to you. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  129. You could have a fear that the commission would distort the truth, but that is part of the idea of giving it an even party split. Donald Trump claims it is a trap. McConnell says there are other investigations going on anyway. McCarthy says yes he’ll testify if subpoenaed.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  130. The argument for another investigation is that what one doesn’t find out, another would, or make it public. (criminal investigations don’t make all the facts public)

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  131. @129, i stand corrected

    Time123 (b0628d)

  132. #118

    No Carter, no Reagan. So Jimmy Carter is to blame for the Donald?
    No Bill Clinton, no Hillary Clinton. No Hillary Clinton, no Donald win? So, is Trump Bill’s fault?

    See how this works?

    Appalled (1a17de)

  133. The question to ask about deaths is: Would they have died had they not been there?

    In two cases (Babbitt and Sicknick) the answer is no. In the other three it’s “probably.”

    Compare this (as our host does) to 9/11 and the deaths there.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  134. Yeah, with Pelosi and Schumer in charge of the commission we’ll really get to the bottom of things. Maybe we can get the bottom of why articles of impeachment stated a policeman was killed by a fire extinguisher when that never happened. Or why we had to wait 3 months to find out that a 2nd Policeman did NOT die of injuries sustained at the rito.

    Or maybe we can find out what Pelosi said to the JCS when she called them up and told them to not obey any orders by President Trump. Or why Ashli babbit was killed and who shot her. Or why 400 people – who committed non-violent crimes – are still being held withheld bail awaiting trial on such petty crimes as “Trespassing” and “obstructing a police officer”

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  135. Comment trapped for using the V-word.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  136. Pelosi and Biden ignored the BLM/Antifa riots that killed over 60 people and caused hundreds of millions in damage. Their denunciations of the riots, were late and tepid and only came after they forced to denounce the Antifa/BLM rioters by political opponents. SO where’s the commission to look into that?

    Where’s Mittens and Mr. Pete on that? Oh that’s right. They only attack Republicans. Got it.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  137. I have no idea what the “V word” is. Adios.

    rcocean (fcc23e)

  138. Or why 400 people – who committed non-violent crimes – are still being held withheld bail awaiting trial on such petty crimes as “Trespassing” and “obstructing a police officer”

    You would think that people who believe in the Rule of Law and civil rights would be concerned about this.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  139. I have no idea what the “V word” is. Adios.

    The comment had to do with sex, and why Bob Dole only ran once.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  140. Yeah, with Pelosi and Schumer in charge of the commission we’ll really get to the bottom of things.

    The commission has an equal number of Republicans and Democrats. At least, that’s what the House passed.

    Paul Montagu (a05eda)

  141. Pelosi and Biden ignored the BLM/Antifa riots that killed over 60 people and caused hundreds of millions in damage. Their denunciations of the riots, were late and tepid and only came after they forced to denounce the Antifa/BLM rioters by political opponents.

    This is a lie.

    Biden condemns riots over George Floyd death, calls for end to ‘needless destruction’

    These last few days have laid bare that we are a nation furious at injustice. Every person of conscience can understand the rawness of the trauma people of color experience in this country, from the daily indignities to the extreme violence, like the horrific killing of George Floyd.

    Protesting such brutality is right and necessary. It’s an utterly American response. But burning down communities and needless destruction is not. Violence that endangers lives is not. Violence that guts and shutters businesses that serve the community is not.

    The act of protesting should never be allowed to overshadow the reason we protest. It should not drive people away from the just cause that protest is meant to advance.

    George Floyd was killed on May 25. Protests began in Minneapolis on the 26th, and in other cities on the 27th. The incidence of violence ramped up over several days. Biden’s statement was made on the 30th.

    You can read the whole thing here.

    For comparison, Trump issued a sympathetic (and hence obviously insincere) about Floyd’s death on the 28th. And on the 29th he threatened to order the National Guard to shoot people.

    So in terms of addressing the violence, Biden was one day behind Trump.

    Dave (1542be)

  142. What does it say about America when one of the major parties supports people who attacked the Capitol? Something is seriously wrong when they cannot find a way to distance themselves from people who wanted to hang Congressmen.

    That a party’s base is so hostile to the federal government that they are not discomfited by an attack of this sort, should be a canary in the coal mine signaling that government needs to change how it operates. Trump’s election was that, too, and his near re-election despite, well, Trump, should have been an utter shock to the system.

    Instead the government intends to double down, passing more intolerable acts — by 51-50 votes — and rounding up and/or demonizing as many of their opponents as possible.

    Doesn’t anyone see how brittle this has become? This is so far beyond “Trump” it’s not funny, and yet good and thoughtful people seem focused on this unimportant man and neglecting the rupture that is coming.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  143. Kevin,

    It’s hard to ignore Trump when he insists on throwing his weight around, and when Republican leaders lick his a$$.

    norcal (84cdee)


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