Patterico's Pontifications

5/10/2021

Per Leader McCarthy: Recall Vote of Rep. Liz Cheney On Wednesday

Filed under: General — Dana @ 4:27 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Kevin McCarthy has announced that the vote to remove Rep. Liz Cheney will take place this Wednesday:

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) officially set for Wednesday the awaited recall vote of Rep. Liz Cheney (R-Wyo.) as House Republican Conference chair in a letter first obtained by Punchbowl News, after a week of speculation over her place in Republican leadership.

McCarthy told House Republicans the party would move forward in voting to remove Cheney from Republican leadership when it became “clear we need to make a change” after weeks of debate over Cheney’s outspokenness against former President Donald Trump.

The House Minority Leader announced Sunday he would support Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-N.Y.) to replace Cheney.

But let’s take a moment to look at this from Leader McCarthy’s opening paragraph from a letter announcing the vote will take place Wednesday. He said of the Republican Party:

We fiercely defend free speech and personal responsibility…

Of course, this is laughable given that he is doing everything in his power to avoid holding a president responsible for his corrupt behavior and is canceling a leader who won’t just shut up already and instead, continues to forcefully speak out about the need for the Republican Party to condemn Trump and his big lie if it wants to move forward in a healthy and effective way. No debate, just shut up and behave yourself! If the GOP doesn’t divorce from Trump, then the Party will remain a stigmatized do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do political party. Ironically, Cheney is being punished for saying almost exactly what McCarthy said after Jan. 6:

On January 12, Wyoming Rep. Liz Cheney announced that she would vote to impeach President Donald Trump for his role in inciting the violent insurrection as the US Capitol six days earlier.

“The President of the United States summoned this mob, assembled the mob, and lit the flame of this attack,” Cheney said in a now famous/infamous quote. “Everything that followed was his doing.”

The next day, on the floor of the House, Republican Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy said he would not vote for impeachment, but added this:

“The President bears responsibility for Wednesday’s attack on Congress by mob rioters. He should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding. These facts require immediate action of President Trump.”

As noted by Rep. Adam Kinzinger:

“Liz Cheney is saying exactly what Kevin McCarthy said the day of the insurrection. She has just consistently been saying it. A few weeks later, Kevin McCarthy changed to attacking other people. I think what the reality is, as a party, we need to have an internal look and a full accounting as to what led to January 6. Right now it is basically the Titanic. We’re in the middle of this slow sink.”

The problem is, that today’s Republican Party has no interest in anything other than making sure members pledge their fealty to Trump. If they refuse, then eventually, it’s off with their heads.

Here is a tidy summation of McCarthy’s attempt to rewrite the narrative right after the events of Jan. 6:

McCarthy seemed to genuinely want to distance himself from what his party and the president had done or were doing, only to later jump on board when it became clear which way the wind was blowing in his conference.

That wind has now blown sufficiently toward rewriting the history of Jan. 6 and what preceded it. And McCarthy, it seems, is now quite happy to play his part in that as well.

Meanwhile, McCarthy has endorsed Elise Stefanik as Cheney’s replacement. Here is a snippet of Stefanik discussing whether she will be looking ahead, looking back, or both:

Washington Examiner: How are you going to make a change from Cheney and look forward to the 2022 elections when Trump, who has the biggest megaphone in the party, is so focused on 2020?

Stefanik: I disagree that it is binary between looking back and looking forward. I think the president is right to focus on the election integrity and election security issues. If you go to any Republican Lincoln Day dinner, any town meeting across the country, it is one of the top concerns of voters. And it’s very much in line when we talk about going on offense. H.R. 1 is the opposite direction. That’s a federal takeover of election. Republicans have put forth policies such as voter ID, ensuring that we have chain of custody of absentee ballots, signature verification process, the audit in Arizona. State legislatures like Florida are taking proactive policy action. So, I believe that the discussions of the 2020 election are integral to make sure that we can rebuild the American people’s trust in our elections, moving forward, and put forth those policy solutions to improve election security and election integrity. And I stand with the president’s focus on election integrity. As usual, he’s very in touch with the voters around the country.

Washington Examiner: Do you agree with Trump that Biden was illegitimately elected and the election was stolen?

Stefanik: President Biden is president, and the focus is on defeating his radical agenda, which I believe we will do in 2024. And we’re going to win the midterms in 2022. I have said that there are election irregularities and an unconstitutional overreach, which is why I objected to certain states. You can refer to my statement on the House floor. I fully stand by that, and voters support the focus on those issues. But the irregularity, the unconstitutional overreach, the lack of ballot security, those are important issues that the American people want to hear solutions from the Republicans on.

Yup.

–Dana

113 Responses to “Per Leader McCarthy: Recall Vote of Rep. Liz Cheney On Wednesday”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (fd537d)

  2. Expelling Liz Cheney from leadership won’t gain the GOP one additional voter, but it will cost us quite a few.— Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) May 10, 2021

    Wanna bet, Willard? Howzabout $10,000?

    Mine.

    Idiot.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  3. DCSCA,

    We can assume that every Trumper is still a member of the Republican Party. Those who have left the Party have left because of Trump and his election lie, as well as the refusal of the party to condemn it and divorce from Trump. So you think that any Republicans will return to the Party as a result of Cheney being ousted? Or do you think it will cause fence-sitters waiting to see how the Party moves forward to leave?

    Dana (fd537d)

  4. DCSCA, tell me how the GOP can grow when the prime litmus test for membership is personal fealty to a corrupt, lying con man.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  5. I think McCarthy’s move and the inevitable successful vote oust Cheney leave no doubt that today’s Republican Party no longer cares about the rule of law and that members have officially and unabashedly decided to support a cheap grifter who continues to this day to lie about having had the election stolen from him rather than the truth. This will give Democrats red meat for the midterms and 2024.

    Dana (fd537d)

  6. Why is the Republican Party doubling down on a loser? George H.W. Bush lost after one term, but nobody tried propping him up after he lost.

    Wouldn’t it be better to get behind a new leader and move on instead of paying obeisance to a guy still trying to gaslight the country about a “stolen” election?

    Is it about conservative principles, or fealty to Donald J. Trump?

    norcal (01e272)

  7. Stefanik doesn’t have a problem talking about the 2020 election, nor does McCarthy. They just want to make sure that members tell *their* version of it. That is the litmus test going forward. Clearly, Cheney has failed that big time and must be punished. Defenders of free speech and personal responsibility, my ass.

    Dana (fd537d)

  8. trump critics, more than four years deep into trying to oust trump since inauguration day, decry cheney’s ousting… from a leadership post

    rubs chin

    JF (a4a3d0)

  9. Mitt knows a lot about losing after writing off 47% of the vote.
    This may gain the GOP votes in her district.
    In the election for President 2024, if this move loses votes, it’ll be votes lost in the beltway which is where she should run for Congress.
    If you want to be a maverick and get plum posts, you need to hold a slot no one else in the party can.. like Adam Schiff’s seat, but her money comes from Northern VA and some oil/natural gas money in WY and won’t effect the GOP Presidential race unless Trump goes 2024… in which case Trump will lose some beltway money and make it up in heartland money

    steveg (ebe7c1)

  10. Why is the Republican Party doubling down on a loser? George H.W. Bush lost after one term, but nobody tried propping him up after he lost.

    HW wasn’t a populist. For some reason, once a populist takes hold, it’s hard to get it off its prey.

    Hoi Polloi (b28058)

  11. @steveg@9 It won’t gain any votes that make a difference in Wyoming. Wyoming is already crimson red. It could, theoretically, lose votes in Wyoming, but also not enough to make a difference, because Wyoming is already crimson red. The only way I can see it making a voting difference would be if Cheney lost her primary and then ran as an independent/write-in/whatever the way Lisa Murkowski did, and won the seat that way. At that point she’d basically be able to operate independently of the party and you could get another Lisa Murkowski.

    Nic (896fdf)

  12. unless Trump goes 2024… in which case Trump will lose some beltway money and make it up in heartland money

    You could have stopped at lose. :)

    norcal (01e272)

  13. @3. We can assume that every Trumper is still a member of the Republican Party.

    Not necessarily. Plenty disillusioned bolted w/t Lincoln Project crowd and voted against him. And keep in mind, the ‘election lie’ kerfuffle bubbled up after the general election. Jettisoning the establishment types- such as Daughter Darth, is about purging he party of the neocon madness. Willard is merely a ‘I’ll hold your coat and watch from the peanut gallery’ guy. Lord, he’s the only Mormon in history to get booed in Utah. This is less about Trump and more about clearing out the old guard deadwood. Keep your eye on Nikki and see if/how/when she threads the needle.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  14. Even Susan Collins disagrees with Romney.
    Romney is in a safe Red State (for now) and Collins has had to survive by threading the needle.
    Advantage Collins

    steveg (ebe7c1)

  15. @4. Might want to revisit your math– in fact, Trump made it grow; it’s the ideological National Review-type conservative wusses and haters who were obsessed with his personality foibles, bolted and backed a plagiarist of equally poor character and never would have before who lost it for him. This is about sweeping out the remains of the modern ideological conservative movement.

    You know what the difference is between running Cheney aand Romney-types into a ditch and the fanatical Goldwater Birchers benching Rockefeller Republicans in ’64?

    Nothing.

    The party has swopped ends on you an the tail no longer wags the dog; 74 million have told you. Ideological conservatives are irrelevant in 2021; they no longer lead, won’t follow, so get out of the way or run over and out into the desert. Just take a compass with you.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  16. @3.So you think that any Republicans will return to the Party as a result of Cheney being ousted?

    Absolutely. Trump pegged her for what the Cheneys are: a warmongers.

    Less Cheney; more Nikki. She’s the right mix of age, gender, ethnicity and heritage for the changing complexion of America. Tim Scott, not so much; DeSantis even less.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  17. @5.None of these major parties care about the ‘rule of law’ Dana.

    It has been a joke for decades: Vietnam, Watergate, Iran-Contra, WMDs…

    Lori Laughlin did more time than Richard Nixon ever did– or Donald Trump ever will.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  18. I’ve donated to Liz Cheney’s campaign (but not to the RNCC who she still seeks to support for some reason).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  19. @18 Alas, I don’t think there is enough money to rid the country of Cult 45 anytime soon. Cults have a pernicious hold on hearts and minds. It’s very hard to extract someone from a cult.

    norcal (01e272)

  20. Mitt Romney (@MittRomney) May 10, 2021

    Mitt, start a new party. God knows you can get whatever you want to happen in Utah. You don’t have to be the candidate, but you can be the catalyst.

    Call it the Honest Party, or the Rule of Law Party, or the Whigs (which started as a response to Jackson), or even the Federalists, for the rebirth of federalism that is sorely needed.

    But yelling at the Republicans from the back benches isn’t very interesting. Put some skin in the game; who knows who might join you.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  21. @18 Alas, I don’t think there is enough money to rid the country of Cult 45 anytime soon. Cults have a pernicious hold on hearts and minds. It’s very hard to extract someone from a cult.

    That’s not my aim. It’s to give her the money to be re-elected, either for the GOP nomination or to pull a Murkowski (who won a WRITE-IN re-election campaign after being beat by a Palin-backed challenger for the GOP nomination).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  22. The best way to deal with a bully is to embarrass the crap out of them.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  23. DCSCA, tell me how the GOP can grow when the prime litmus test for membership is personal fealty to a corrupt, lying con man.

    It’s easy:

    1. Elect a GOP House and impeach Biden and Harris for stealing the election.
    2. ???
    3. Trump’s second term!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  24. Mitt knows a lot about losing after writing off 47% of the vote.

    That tape was doctored.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  25. Have some comrades forgotten that Ronna McDaniel, Chairwoman of the Republican National Committee, is a Romney? Mitt’s brother’s daughter?

    nk (1d9030)

  26. She said what she said and the vote kept her in power. The problem is she won’t move forward and keeps saying things to divide the party and will provide more assistance to the socialists in Congress. But she’ll lose her next primary then try and help the leftist take over her seat. Afterward she’ll take a cozy lobbyist position.

    NJRob (1d8526)

  27. Well at least Virginia GOP dodged an MTG-like gubernatorial candidate, Amanda Chase finished 3rd.

    urbanleftbehind (0235d5)

  28. 16-DC, deep down, Cru-bio and their brethren, the cornerstone of permanent R rule in Florida, are gonna mutter behind the scenes “those other brownies got to wait their turn”. Though its very likely, the novelty effect will be moot as soon as 2022. It would be something if Priti Patel took over for Boris J on that side of the pond at the same time a theres a single Harris year followed by Haley over here.

    urbanleftbehind (0235d5)

  29. The problem is she won’t move forward and keeps saying things to divide the party and will provide more assistance to the socialists in Congress.

    You spelled “Trump” wrong.

    norcal (01e272)

  30. That tape was doctored.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 5/10/2021 @ 7:21 pm

    The left doesn’t care. Ask Harry Reid. They won.

    NJRob (1d8526)

  31. Reid. Now there was a horrible Mormon Senator.

    norcal (01e272)

  32. Yup, norc…and I dont think a flat-out leftist Dem would eke out a victory in a 3-way WY gen election; they would be lucky to clear 30%. Either the hard R or Indy Cheney would win with 36 to 50+ %of the vote.

    urbanleftbehind (0235d5)

  33. UBL, I’d love to see another independent like Murkowski in Congress.

    norcal (01e272)

  34. what’s all this concern about votes?

    i thought the goal was losing more elections

    JF (e1156d)

  35. I’m engaged in a raging debate with Trumpkins on a BYU sports board.

    One guy just said, “I wish Trump had the capacity to spin.”

    Are you kidding? That’s all Trump does!

    norcal (01e272)

  36. Elise Stefanik mentioned “Unconstitutional Overreach” while giving her answer to questions from the Washington Examiner. I mean she essentially described her own actions as well as the majority of GOP House members to try to steal the presidential election. Quite the self-awareness there.

    As for the belief that Trump grew the GOP, yes in some respects his presidency did attract new voters to the GOP fold. But he bled significantly in suburbia, where many right leaning moderates to solid righties left the GOP in droves. His popular vote total grew from 63 million in 2016 to 74.2 million in 2020. And many Trumpers love to mention how Mitt Romney only got 60.9 million in 2012. But Trump’s popular vote percentage share was 46.1 % in 2016, and 46.9 % in 2020. Mitt’s share of the PV was 47.2 %. Trump did better in the electoral college in 2020 with 232 EVs, compared to Mitt’s 206. Though it has to be noted that Obama was a far superior candidate than either Hillary or Biden, by a long shot. Romney’s opponent also had some advantages of being an incumbent President. Trump on the other hand, had the advantages running as the incumbent running against an extremely gaffe prone opponent. The Democrats also went off the rails crazy by lurching hard left, far more so than during the Obama presidency. But Trump nullified whatever advantages he may have had, for reasons that are clearly obvious.

    In short, Trump certainly motivated many Americans to vote for him, as evidenced by his improved percentage share and raw vote totals from 2016 to 2020. But he motivated many more people to vote against him, as evidenced by raw vote total of 65.9 million for Hillary in 2016, to almost 81.3 million for Joe Biden. Biden’s popular vote share of 51.3 % is a marked improvement over Hillary’s 48.2 %. Biden certainly was an unimpressive candidate in many respects. He just had the good fortune of running against an incumbent president who junk-tweeted his way to defeat, among other things.

    HCI (92ea66)

  37. Reid. Now there was a horrible Mormon Senator.

    norcal (01e272) — 5/10/2021 @ 8:10 pm

    “I don’t regret that at all…..Romney didn’t win did he?” – Harry Reid, in response to CNN’s inquiry as to whether he regretted lying about Mitt being a tax cheat.

    Reid was quite a dirtbag, to put it mildly.

    HCI (92ea66)

  38. UBL, I’d love to see another independent like Murkowski in Congress.

    norcal (01e272) — 5/10/2021 @ 8:14 pm

    Why? You like her supporting leftist causes in a Republican state and being a radical abortionist that votes against conservative judicial candidates?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  39. Reid was quite a dirtbag, to put it mildly.

    He’s even managed to con everyone with what is apparently a sob story about being near death. Or, to put it more delicately, he and his enablers have spent the past 29 months telling everybody that the former Senate Majority Leader has but weeks to live. Isn’t there a line in Godfather II where Michael Corelone grouses that Hyman Roth has been dying of the same ailment for the past six years? I guess it’s appropriate that Harry Reid goes out in his own cynical and sleazy way.

    JVW (30a532)

  40. Reid was in that film, although they called him “Turnbull.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  41. As regards the Arizona audit that Stefanik is so happy with, their latest move is to demand confidential information from county sheriffs, who are not happy with the idea:

    The private company conducting the GOP 2020 election recount in Arizona is now demanding access to government internet routers and passwords, which the Maricopa County sheriff blasted as “mind-numbingly reckless and irresponsible” and a threat to law enforcement.

    Sheriff Paul Penzone (D) said in a statement that providing router information to a shadowy private company led by a conspiracy-embracing CEO would compromise sensitive and highly classified law enforcement data and equipment.

    And Kevin is right. The current Republican theory is that 2020 was stolen, that they will be taking steps to make sure the next elections won’t be stolen, even if this involves state legislatures simply assigning electoral votes, that 2022 will of course result in flipping Congress, (history guarantees it, apparently) and that in 2024 Trump will regain his rightful place, like MacArthur returning to the Philippines, but without getting his feet wet.

    Victor (4959fb)

  42. @18. Good money after bad, Kevin:

    Reaganomics. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  43. @24. Doctored???

    ROFLMAO yes, truth stings as an antiseptic; Mitt Romney: bad medicine.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  44. @28. Trump/Haley 2024, perhaps, ulb. If he runs and offered it she’d grab the brass ring; she’d be Trump’s Nurse Kamala. Otherwise, she’s running on her own.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  45. 80% of gop populist trumpers. 20% never trumpets economic libertarian free trade conservatives, neo-con cold warriors and wealthy multi nationalist pro immigration establishment. To quote AOC “They got the money we got the people.” Is 80% enough to win national elections? we will see.

    asset (7ef070)

  46. Populism is what banana republics do, asset. Hugo Chavez rode a populism wave to office in Venezuela, then turned tyrant, just like Trump tried to on January 6th.

    You just keep repeating the same old lines, so my words are probably wasted on you.

    norcal (01e272)

  47. The thing with populism, at least as it plays out, is that it’s usually a populism in defense of a slice of the people, not all the people. In U.S. populist appeals more less openly claim to be on behalf of the white working class.

    There were turn of the Century (19-20th that is) who attempted to broaden populism, particularly in the South, to include both white and black workers and farmers. It didn’t get very far and after that Southern populists were pretty much flat out white supremacists too.

    Victor (4959fb)

  48. That sounds right, Victor.

    norcal (01e272)

  49. lmao at you peoples concerns.
    The loser party thrives.

    mg (8cbc69)

  50. Townhall has it correct – Dead women walking.

    mg (8cbc69)

  51. It’s clear that it’s Trumps party. Only people willing to lie about the election being stolen, Lie about what happened on Jan 6, and support whatever else it takes to fluff Trump’s ego will have a significant role. People who are wiling to sit silently in the face of those lies can go along for the ride.

    Time123 (ea2b98)

  52. Victor, Trump and his most ardent supporters aren’t populists. They’re white nationalists. They hate ‘elites’ and embrace populist rhetoric where convenient. But that’s based more on cultural grievance then anything else. They’re apoplectic at the perceived disrespect.

    Time123 (ea2b98)

  53. asset: “80% of gop populist trumpers. 20% never trumpets…”

    The problem is that populism is a shambles. Populism is inherently about disruption, not about thoughtful and purposeful governance. It’s about channeling anger and thus it focuses on the personality leader with that particular skill set. Trump doesn’t have great insights or instincts about policy or about smoothly sailing the ship of state….he’s about raising the temperature at pep rallies, settling scores, and keeping people properly angry. After losing the House, Presidency, and Senate, is the GOP rightly reconsidering its priorities and abandoning the chaos that is Trump or is it doubling down and purging its own ranks? Is Liz Cheney really what is holding back the GOP from expanding its tent and creating policy alternatives? Really!?

    January 6th was a perfect metaphor for Trump….mindless populist wreckage…purporting to reform the system….but really just trashing it. Trumpism hasn’t fixed anything and in fact has just created more polarization and made it harder to fix anything. It’s just one big tantrum.

    In the end Trump’s populism couldn’t even win…and left us with an explosion of debt, a mismanaged health crisis, scandal after self-inflicted scandal, and an opening for the Left to exploit the absence of leadership from the Right. Wouldn’t it be nice if the erstwhile leader of the GOP was out there arguing against Biden’s excessive spending proposals, rather than feeding paranoia about stolen elections and personal slights? It’s no wonder that non-Republicans like asset and DCSCA love it, but how other supposed Republicans rationalize and enable it….baffles me.

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  54. it’s as if trump were still president

    if cheney and her fans want the party to focus on alternatives to biden’s mess, maybe lead by example

    you can’t

    just look at the comments here

    quit your obsession with trump

    JF (e1156d)

  55. JF, Is Cheney being kicked out for some reason other then Trump? He’s still the leader of your party and he’s still trying to sell the lie that he didn’t lose the election

    Donald J. Trump
    8:52pm May 10, 2021

    The major Michigan Election Fraud case has just filed a bombshell pleading claiming votes were intentionally switched from President Trump to Joe Biden. The number of votes is MASSIVE and determinative. This will prove true in numerous other States. All Republicans must UNIFY and not let this happen. If a thief robs a jewelry store of all of its diamonds (the 2020 Presidential Election), the diamonds must be returned. The Fake News media refuses to cover the greatest Election Fraud in the history of our Country. They have lost all credibility, but ultimately, they will have no choice!

    BTW, Massive and Determinative is about 15,000 votes in Antim County. 9,500 for Trump and 4,500 for Biden. The issues was caught and corrected early by the Trump supporting republican county clerk.

    https://www.record-eagle.com/news/antrim-county-election-lawsuit-is-one-of-the-last-in-the-nation/article_b4ef17da-af81-11eb-8169-fbce525ebe0f.html

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  56. In 2024 Trump will be drifting away from his male nurses and wondering around Palm Beach with a vacant stare and his fly open.

    nk (1d9030)

  57. cheney is being kicked out because she couldn’t curb her obsession with an ex-president

    JF (e1156d)

  58. @57, He lies. She points out he lies. You call it an obsession. You seem unwilling to either move on from Trump or admit that you wont’ stand for anyone disrespecting him. Yesterday he sent out another lie that I quotes for you.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  59. #8 I try to get rid of bad leaders through elections (and other democratic processes), and keep good leaders.

    Is that idea too complicated for you?

    Jim Miller (edcec1)

  60. he’s banned from t and fb, but he lives vicariously through you

    JF (e1156d)

  61. cheney is being kicked out because she couldn’t curb her obsession with an ex-president
    is not steering money from lobbyists to Trump’s businesses, in exchange for his support with the “populists”, like the rest of the GOP assortment of tarts.

    nk (1d9030)

  62. JF, Yesterday the former president and current leader of the GOP demanded that the election he lost be overturned. His justification for this is a dishonest conspiracy theory. The GOP is purging anyone that publicly disagrees with him. You seem to know it’s a lie, but can’t stomach anyone openly disagreeing with him so you default to “why are you so obsessed with him

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  63. i don’t know it’s a lie because i don’t go out searching for trump quotes

    i have no idea what he’s said the past five months, but i know who i can lean on if i need to

    JF (e1156d)

  64. 63, At least you have the grace not to defend him. I guess that’s something.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  65. “i don’t go out searching for trump quotes”

    so lazy

    “i have no idea what he’s said the past five months”

    and ignorant

    “trump critics, more than four years deep into trying to oust trump since inauguration day, decry cheney’s ousting”

    But still knows who is in the wrong and who is being treated badly

    “quit your obsession with trump”

    yes, that’s what many of us have been calling for, yet it persists with this Cheney nonsense and the GOP’s proclaimed interest in running him yet again….why are you afraid of opposition?

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  66. you’re confused

    opposition is totally fine

    i’m not gunning for cheney’s ouster nor was i for trump’s ouster either

    JF (e1156d)

  67. Even Susan Collins disagrees with Romney.

    How? Last I checked, she defended both.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  68. Might want to revisit your math– in fact, Trump made it grow.

    Not in relative terms. The math is that a basement-dwelling 78-year beat the sh-t out of Trump, making him a one-term loser, and now all this one-term loser is doing is airing grievances and demanding loyalty tests. There’s no ideology or principle here. It’s just a power play. Good job, DCSCA, you got the party you wanted.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  69. Why? You like her supporting leftist causes in a Republican state and being a radical abortionist that votes against conservative judicial candidates?

    Lisa Murkowski voted with Trump 73% of the time. To paraphrase Reagan, a person who’s on your side 73% of the time isn’t your enemy. A person who doesn’t prostrate to a one-term loser ex-president can still be a Republican.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  70. @24. Doctored???

    Unless you actually believe that the tape stopped on the last word of the money quote then started again several minutes later “for technical reasons.” Mother Jones sent Rosemary Woods out to explain, but I wasn’t listening. There’s a reason they didn’t win the Pulitzer for that bit.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  71. @69, you’re wrong. The modern GOP’s main goal is flipping the bird at self important cultural elites that they feel have disrespected them by supporting Trump.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  72. I think Kevin is right.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  73. The thing with populism, at least as it plays out, is that it’s usually a populism in defense of a slice of the people, not all the people. In U.S. populist appeals more less openly claim to be on behalf of the white working class.

    This is right in part, but also wrong in part. The 60’s are a great counter-example, where the reaction to government overreach came from the young and the Left.

    Populism happens when a segment of the population is “mad as Hell and cannot take it any more.” They’d rather be doing anything else than political agitation, but do so when they find their voice (as they did this time with Trump). In the 60’s it was a combination of racial injustice, sexual and gender mores that no longer served, the War, and two administrations that lied when the truth would serve them better. It was probably more successful than most as it had multiple leaders (Gene McCarthy, MLK, Tom Hayden, RFK, etc) rather than one cult figure.

    This time it was working class people (including some non-whites) who had been pressured by (primarily illegal) immigration, the outsourcing of their old jobs, and the apparent indifference of both parties to the situation. Trump won because he harnessed this force while everyone else tried to deny it.

    Populism is an important force in correcting the direction of a democracy. It’s not an aberration or the absence of democracy; rather it’s the raw force behind democracy, unfiltered. It’s is also very blunt. This time it was blunter than most.

    The answer to a populist wave is for the powers that be to incorporate it into the body politic. When they try to block it, like the GOP did with the Tea Party, it only comes back stronger — unaddressed grievances don’t disappear, they fester.

    The Democrats are trying to do this, although I don’t think that “more programs to help” is what the working class is looking for. The GOP has gone from ignoring it to running with the mob, which is just a different failure of leadership.

    We are not yet done with this.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  74. Kevin, I think you’re overestimating how much of Trump’s support came from non-white working class. Also, if you look at what his supporters are focusing on today there’s less outrage about economics then culture war issues like pronouns and CRT.

    Time123 (ea2b98)

  75. Trump/Haley 2024 …. Otherwise, she’s running on her own.

    I think this is right. Haley is trying to position herself as Trump’s successor; the competent manager who will carry his cause forward. She also wants to be able to hold some parts of the GOP that are unhappy with Trump, since most of the unhappiness has to do with TRUMP and not policy.

    Note that Nikki Haley has said NOTHING about the Cheney situation.

    If Trump doesn’t run, I could see a Haley/Cheney ticket. Someone has to put the party back together.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  76. @75,

    Kevin, Im not sure Haley will be able to bring out these voters.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  77. Kevin, I think you’re overestimating how much of Trump’s support came from non-white working class.

    I said “some”, which isn’t all that strong.

    In any event, I wasn’t counting the Hispanic working class, since they are largely the inheritors of the immigration thing. in 1980, non-union trades (plumbing, electrical, construction) were largely white, with some numbers of blacks breaking in. Now it is almost entirely Spanish-speaking (in the southwest at least). In many retail jobs in the same areas, employers favor the bilingual.

    Blacks have suffered here, too.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  78. @76

    Time, you will note that he almost won in 2020. I will assert that Trump’s problems weren’t attraction but repulsion. Haley is not as repellent.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  79. Kevin, your right. But I wonder how many people who believe that CRT is part of plot to replace white people are going to bother voting for Hale. Especially if Biden is still upright and slowly making calming noises.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  80. Biden is screwing up at the moment. His stimulus bill, passed without a single GOP vote, is ramping up inflation while paying people $20/hour not to work. His capital gains tax is DOA and his “Go Big” ideas about deficit spending are falling along with the stock market (which impacts both sides of the aisle).

    Once Covid is behind us, other things will matter again and Biden is not doing so well there right now. His best move would be to pressure Twitter into reopening Trump’s account.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  81. Also, few of those 75 million voted for Trump because they thought black people get all the good jobs.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  82. @46. Populism is what banana republics do, asset.

    Except it’s not.

    Buchanan… Perot… Palin… Trump…

    ‘Populism in the United States has been claimed to go at least as far back as the Presidency of Andrew Jackson in the early 19th-century and was popularised as a description of self by members of the People’s Party in the late 19th Century and is making another resurgence in modern day politics in the United States and in modern democracies around the world. Populism is an approach to politics which views “the people” as being opposed to “the elite” and is often used as a synonym of antiestablishmentarianism; as an ideology it transcends the typical divisions of left and right and has become more prevalent in the USA with the rise of disenfranchisement and apathy to the establishment.’ – source, wikiwatchiFla.splash

    Royalists.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  83. Buchanan… Perot… Palin… Trump…

    Thanks for your admission that Trump is a product of Buchanan’s ilk, not Reagan.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  84. @68. Very much in relative terms. He expanded the party and collapsed the modern ideological conservative movement. In relative, actual real world numbers, in fact it’s… glorious. You’re just going to have to endure bein on the bottom of the deck for a few decades– as Rockefeller Republicans had to. Or leave and try to start a new party.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  85. @83. ‘Champaign wishes and caviar dreams,’ Paul; Trump is a Reagan Creation; born of the glittery, gaudy,cesspool of excess that spawned all those tadpoles and the rise of modern populism. Accept it.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  86. @53. Welcome to 1964.

    Buy that compass.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  87. @55.JF, Is Cheney being kicked out for some reason other then Trump?

    Yes.

    You know what the difference is between running warmongering neocon Darth Daughter out of the game and the fanatical Goldwater Birchers benching ‘Rockefeller Republicans’ in ’64?

    Nothing.

    And the lesser Righties let’em do the dirty work of cleaning house.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  88. Trumpism hasn’t fixed anything and in fact has just created more polarization and made it harder to fix anything. It’s just one big tantrum.

    He fixed the modern ideological conservative movements wagon– but good.

    Glorious.

    Buy that compass.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  89. Victor, Trump and his most ardent supporters aren’t populists. They’re white nationalists. They hate ‘elites’ and embrace populist rhetoric where convenient. But that’s based more on cultural grievance then anything else. They’re apoplectic at the perceived disrespect.

    Time123 (ea2b98) — 5/11/2021 @ 4:48 am

    Complete and utter BS. NeverTrump and their most ardent supporters are Soviets and fellow travelers that want to destroy the United States and replace her with a divided, balkanized nation that will be in a state of perpetual civil war.

    If you want to go hyperbolic and shut down all conversation, it’s easy to return the favor. Your caricature is even more repulsive than the one I just posted.

    Your attempt to call a large percentage of the nation white nationalists is meant to increase the temperature and start the war. If that’s your desire, carry on.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  90. NeverTrump and their most ardent supporters are Soviets and fellow travelers that want to destroy the United States and replace her with a divided, balkanized nation that will be in a state of perpetual civil war.

    I rest my case. Binary stupidity in all its glory.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  91. @52… Trump and his most ardent supporters aren’t populists. They’re white nationalists.

    Most of the 74 million, eh. And they be leavin’ their trailers and movin’ on up; to the East Side; to a dee-luxe apartment in the sky…

    Step away from the bong.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  92. Dana (fd537d) — 5/10/2021 @ 4:55 pm

    [D]o you think that any Republicans will return to the Party as a result of Cheney being ousted? Or do you think it will cause fence-sitters waiting to see how the Party moves forward to leave?

    I think the thinking of McCarthy et al is that, since they can’t get rid of Trump, saying that the Republican Party should get rid of Trump, like Liz Cheney says, costs the Republican Party votes.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  93. You know what the difference is between running warmongering neocon Darth Daughter out of the game and the fanatical Goldwater Birchers benching ‘Rockefeller Republicans’ in ’64?

    Yeah, being anti-national-security is such a winning direction for Republicans.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  94. 5. Dana (fd537d) — 5/10/2021 @ 5:20 pm

    This will give Democrats red meat for the midterms and 2024.

    The red meat is the notion that elected Republicans will cheat in elections. It would be malpractice of politics (to use a term coined or used by Bob Dole) for this not to come up. Of course the Democrats are accusing Republicans of cheating that they are not doing (with regard to the sate election laws)

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  95. Trump and his most ardent supporters aren’t populists. They’re white nationalists.

    Trump maybe. Anything but a fringe of his supporters? No. There are few “pure plays” in major-party politics. They are no more his main support than AOC’s is Antifa. His failure to repudiate them does not change that (other than by reducing his other support).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  96. @93. Yeah, being anti-perpetual war is such a winning direction for AMERICANS.

    FIFY.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  97. 52. Time123 (ea2b98) — 5/11/2021 @ 4:48 am

    Trump and his most ardent supporters aren’t populists. They’re white nationalists. They hate ‘elites’ and embrace populist rhetoric where convenient.

    They hate immigration – any immigration, including white Christian immigration really – and any signs of doing anything for any other country that cannot be proven to be purely in America’s self interest.

    Other than that, they’re reasonable conservatives.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  98. 46. norcal (01e272) — 5/11/2021 @ 2:14 am

    Hugo Chavez rode a populism wave to office in Venezuela, then turned tyrant, just like Trump tried to on January 6th.

    That’s what Sidney Powelll and Mike Flynn and the people who planned the storming of the Capitol really wanted.

    Trump wouldn’t do that because he knew the Joint Chiefs of Staff wouldn’t listen to him.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  99. Trump wouldn’t do that because he knew the Joint Chiefs of Staff wouldn’t listen to him.

    One would hope this is always true, and they would, if anything, suggest impeachment of any president who tried.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  100. Victor, Trump and his most ardent supporters aren’t populists. They’re white nationalists. They hate ‘elites’ and embrace populist rhetoric where convenient. But that’s based more on cultural grievance then anything else. They’re apoplectic at the perceived disrespect.

    Time123 (ea2b98) — 5/11/2021 @ 4:48 am

    Complete and utter BS. NeverTrump and their most ardent supporters are Soviets and fellow travelers that want to destroy the United States and replace her with a divided, balkanized nation that will be in a state of perpetual civil war.

    If you want to go hyperbolic and shut down all conversation, it’s easy to return the favor. Your caricature is even more repulsive than the one I just posted.

    Your attempt to call a large percentage of the nation white nationalists is meant to increase the temperature and start the war. If that’s your desire, carry on.

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/11/2021 @ 9:36 am

    First, I specified Trump’s most ardent supporters. Not all Trump supporters.

    Second; Rich Lowery put it well in the national review If Donald Trump wins a second term, it will be an unmistakable countercultural statement in a year when progressives have otherwise worked their will across the culture. He’s far from an anti-trumper and his thesis is pretty well aligned with what I said.

    Third, you got angry and accused Cornell of “attacking western culture” when they changed from “The Department of English literature” to “The Department of Literature in English” You an example off someone mostly focused on cultural grievance.

    Finally; I don’t think you’re sympathetic to white nationalism. I should find a succinct way to state that it’s not a perfect overlap of white nationalists and people motivated by cultural grievance. Your complaint that my characterization was too braid ifs fair.

    Time123 (ea2b98)

  101. ugh, formatting on my last comment is terrible.

    Time123 (89dfb2)

  102. 9. steveg (ebe7c1) — 5/10/2021 @ 6:26 pm

    Mitt knows a lot about losing after writing off 47% of the vote.

    Mixig up two different statistics as well, in doing so.

    If you want to be a maverick and get plum posts, you need to hold a slot no one else in the party can..

    No, no, Many Republicans could win Utah, for instance. What Mitt Romney had was a lot of popularity. He couldn’t have won a Senate race (not easily) in Massachusetts. It could be said he was the best chance for a candidate with his point of view in Utah. But his viewpoint is generally popular. And he had a connection to Utah.

    Unlike the UK, where NPs generally have no previous connection with their seat, and pick their voters, carpetbagging is somewhat frowned upon and not that common.

    Liz Cheney could get re-elected in Utah, if the Democrats don’t split the No Trump vote. She might have to run as an independent, like Lisa Murkowsky in Alaska in 2010 or Joe Lieberman in Connecticut in 2006. There’s no Senate seat up in 2022. She tried running in 2014 but withdrew before the primary. She may run for president in 2024, if she can’t find anyone else to.

    54. JF (e1156d) — 5/11/2021 @ 5:22 am

    it’s as if trump were still president

    That’s the way Elise Stefanik talks:

    Stefanik: I disagree that it is binary between looking back and looking forward. I think the president is right to focus on the election integrity and election security issues….

    The Romney tape wasn’t doctored – it contained words ripped out of context. It still showed that Romney confused the 47% of the people who pay no federal income tax (which in turn he confused with getting transfer payments) with the 47% in a poll who wouldn’t vote for him.

    https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2012/sep/18/mitt-romney/romney-says-47-percent-americans-pay-no-income-tax

    “There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what,” Romney said in the video. “All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  103. Your attempt to call a large percentage of the nation white nationalists is meant to increase the temperature and start the war. If that’s your desire, carry on.
    NJRob (eb56c3) — 5/11/2021 @ 9:36 am

    What is your in intent in calling a large percentage of the population “Soviets and fellow travelers that want to destroy the United States …”? Are you among those who believe that people who didn’t vote for Trump are “not Americans in any meaningful sense — and probably “zombies and insects”?

    Radegunda (aea52f)

  104. “Buchanan… Perot… Palin… Trump…”

    Populism’s finest indeed! Though Palin was more of a personality that got pulled into a fight…as a Hail Mary….than a passionate agitator against “the man”. I mean she drifted pretty quickly into irrelevance with low visibility reality tv…and is now…unfortunately…only tabloid fodder.

    Buchanan certainly qualifies as a populist….and had some initial primary success against Dole in 1996 as a strict cultural conservative and trade protectionist….but let’s face it…he never had a chance and just represented a convenient protest vote…nothing more. No one exactly courted Buchanan for his voters. Other cultural conservatives could simply poach much of his vote, so he wasn’t exactly relevant to the GOP.

    Perot at least had a legitimate populist movement…and like Trump it was largely built on personality and the perception of business competence. But in the end without the GOP party takeover…like Trump did…Ross was doomed….(though Stockdale and dropping out didn’t help him either).

    Trump got further because times are different….and he faced possibly the worst candidate the Democrats could have run. I think we also saw a post-Obama polarization that made 2016 a life-or-death proposition for many…not the same environment that Buchanan or Perot faced. Reality TV, social media, and right wing media fueled Trump’s rise. He was angry and obnoxious at a time when people saw that as a plus. Other than the fact that populism ebbs and flows, I’m not sure I see a clear cause-and-effect between those on your list….

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  105. He was angry and obnoxious at a time when people saw that as a plus.

    “He makes the right people mad!”

    Radegunda (aea52f)

  106. Time123 (ea2b98) — 5/11/2021 @ 10:49 am

    More gaslighting and propaganda. Cornell did a lot more than change the name of the department which you well know as I cited it at the time, but your grievance studies propaganda tries to minimize the claim as just a name change.

    Second, Western Civilization has given us the blessings in which we live. Modern society wouldn’t exist without it. Free speech and liberty does not exist without it. God given rights being expressed in law do not exist without it. But the anti-west propaganda pushed as anti-white is what you’re supporting when you post false claims as you have. You are sympathizing with those who desire the end of western civilization. Or are you just “anti-white” since you seem to desire to see everything in terms of race?

    NJRob (6c2121)

  107. Radegunda,

    Perhaps read the 2nd paragraph of my post where I state the 1st paragraph is hyperbole and no different than the disgusting mess I was quoting.

    NJRob (6c2121)

  108. @106, The only thing they did was change the name of the department and publish a explanation for the decision. Was that some other action I’m missing?

    But the anti-west propaganda pushed as anti-white is what you’re supporting when you post false claims as you have. You are sympathizing with those who desire the end of western civilization. Or are you just “anti-white” since you seem to desire to see everything in terms of race?

    you’re confusing my disagreement that this is happening with supporting it actually happening.

    Time123 (ea2b98)

  109. @104. Trump got ‘further’ because populism finally boiled over.

    And it hasn’t cooled. Even ice cream Nancy can tell you there’s equal opportunity rage still bubbling.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  110. He was angry and obnoxious at a time when people saw that as a plus.

    People still do. This isn’t going to just disappear; if it isn’t Trump they’ll simply find another vessel. And it won’t be the Cheney types or the Romney types or ideological conservatism that floats their boats. These Royalist clowns suckered folks by failing to deliver over and over for decades. And now they’re being run out of town.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  111. AJ_Liberty,

    What a great comment at 53! I wish I had such power of expression.

    norcal (01e272)

  112. AJ_Liberty, I missed comment 53. It’s great!. Norcal thank you for pointing it out.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  113. It’s so good that I quoted it on a significantly larger forum, Time123.

    norcal (01e272)


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