Patterico's Pontifications

5/6/2021

Liz Cheney Quadruples Down — And Good on Her

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



This op-ed says it all:

I am a conservative Republican, and the most conservative of conservative values is reverence for the rule of law. Each of us swears an oath before God to uphold our Constitution. The electoral college has spoken. More than 60 state and federal courts, including multiple Trump-appointed judges, have rejected the former president’s arguments, and refused to overturn election results. That is the rule of law; that is our constitutional system for resolving claims of election fraud.

The question before us now is whether we will join Trump’s crusade to delegitimize and undo the legal outcome of the 2020 election, with all the consequences that might have. I have worked overseas in nations where changes in leadership come only with violence, where democracy takes hold only until the next violent upheaval. America is exceptional because our constitutional system guards against that. At the heart of our republic is a commitment to the peaceful transfer of power among political rivals in accordance with law. President Ronald Reagan described this as our American “miracle.”

While embracing or ignoring Trump’s statements might seem attractive to some for fundraising and political purposes, that approach will do profound long-term damage to our party and our country. Trump has never expressed remorse or regret for the attack of Jan. 6 and now suggests that our elections, and our legal and constitutional system, cannot be trusted to do the will of the people. This is immensely harmful, especially as we now compete on the world stage against Communist China and its claims that democracy is a failed system.

This sums it up for me well. The Trump threat is at its core a threat to the rule of law. This is why I consider Trump to be one of our greatest national security threats, and the possibility of a second Trump presidency (the candidacy for which I expect him to announce soon) a calamity. At this point, keeping the House out of the hands of the dangerous GOP caucus in 2024, to prevent them from throwing the election to Trump, seems like a national security priority as well.

There is much at stake now, including the ridiculous wokeness of our political rivals, the irrational policies at the border and runaway spending that threatens a return to the catastrophic inflation of the 1970s. Reagan formed a broad coalition from across the political spectrum to return America to sanity, and we need to do the same now. We know how. But this will not happen if Republicans choose to abandon the rule of law and join Trump’s crusade to undermine the foundation of our democracy and reverse the legal outcome of the last election.

History is watching. Our children are watching. We must be brave enough to defend the basic principles that underpin and protect our freedom and our democratic process. I am committed to doing that, no matter what the short-term political consequences might be.

I (now) know better than to idolize any politician, and Liz Cheney is far from perfect. But in this crusade of hers, she is absolutely in the right, 100%. She deserves the support of every decent American.

The arguments that this is really about her hawkishness, or her refusal to stop talking about the past, are horseshit. Elise Stefanik and Lindsey Graham are hawks and nobody cares because they kiss Trump’s ass and repeat his lies. The one refusing to talk about the past — about how the election was stolen — is Donald Trump. Liz Cheney is just setting the record straight. If you’re pushing some anti-anti-Trump line that the impending Cheney ouster is about anything other than her refusal to bend the knee, you’re pushing an obvious lie. Maybe you believe it, but that just makes you a chump instead of a liar.

Three cheers for Liz Cheney. She is going to lose this vote. She is going to lose in 2022. But she is a stand-up person, fighting against a real threat. I admire her for what she is doing.

119 Responses to “Liz Cheney Quadruples Down — And Good on Her”

  1. Pat, I think you mean “The one refusing to **stop** talking about the past”

    nate_w (25619c)

  2. I looked this up for my conversation with Time, on the other thread:

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/liz-cheney/

    I’m not sure how someone who voted 93% of the time for the damage Trump heaped on this nation is deserving of any cheers, let alone three. Why wasn’t she a stand up person during the years of his tyranny?

    BuDuh (1c160d)

  3. Patterico, I am torn because I consider the Democrat Party to also be an existential threat to the economic system that has made America great. Leaving them in power in Washington seems to be fraught with danger, but — as you suggest — the current leadership of the Republican Party threatens our political system.

    America faces a perfect storm. I cannot ignore the one danger to combat the other, as losing either makes the other meaningless. Until the Trump madness has passed, and it is not the politicians who are driving it, it is the new base of the GOP which is execizing their electoral power and the politicians are simply complying. Maybe we should have politicians who won’t comply, like Liz Cheney, but in a republic an activist electorate will simply choose others who will.

    You are thinking towards the 2024 elections, but I think you need to look at 2022, where Trump will not be a candidate. On the one hand it will be a referendum on Biden’s performance, which no conservative — or indeed person right of center — can support. He has abandoned all pretense of centrism and is pandering to his Left. AOC is quite publicly happy.

    On the other hand, it will be a referendum on the GOP pandering to Trump, for those that care about that more. If the GOP should retake the House with enough margin to ignore 5 or 10 holdouts, they will impeach Biden AND Harris on charges they won a crooked election. Trump will insist (in part out of revenge) and his chorus will force a vote. Thankfully, the Senate won’t convict (unless they can actually prove their case to public satisfaction, which is unlikely). But it will do damage and lower the bar for impeachment considerably.

    I *think* that it is more important to stop the Democrat Party from having full control than it is to punish the weak GOP caucus. Trumpism cannot outlast the man, and in any event it is the man that is the issue, not the basic policies that he claimed to support.

    I’ll leave 2024 alone for now. Trump has to live that long first.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  4. I’m not sure how someone who voted 93% of the time for the damage Trump heaped on this nation is deserving of any cheers

    OK< I'll bite. Except for his incredibly toxic personality, his many faults as a human being, and his general incompetence, what POLICY that his administration "heaped on this nation" do you call "damage"? Be specific and show how it damaged us.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  5. Stefanik voted with Trump 78% of the time:

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/elise-stefanik/

    And Graham voted with him 86% of the time:

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/lindsey-graham/

    My guess is that Cheney would have continued her on-the-record high rate of approval for Trump’s agenda had Trump won in 2020.

    BuDuh (1c160d)

  6. Be specific and show how it damaged us.

    I didn’t know specifics were required. I thought hating Trump in a general sense was all that matters.

    Not that I hate him. I am just looking for consistency.

    I have to leave for a bit.

    BuDuh (1c160d)

  7. My guess is that Cheney would have continued her on-the-record high rate of approval for Trump’s agenda had Trump won in 2020.

    I don’t think she would argue with that, as her impeachment vote was the only one that wasn’t based on policy. She objects to his undermining the electoral system and arousing the rabble to overturn an election, not any particular policy plank in the GOP agenda.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  8. He’s not only a national security threat because of his responsibility in the lead-up and execution of an insurrection by his zealot followers, he’s also had no compunction or hesitancy in enlisting foreign powers to help him win elections. Not only that, he obstructed justice multiple times over during a legitimate investigation into electoral misconduct involving a hostile foreign power.
    Donald J. Trump is un-American, the opposite of a patriot. He should never hold public office anywhere ever again.

    Except for his incredibly toxic personality, his many faults as a human being, and his general incompetence, what POLICY that his administration “heaped on this nation” do you call “damage”?

    How about pushing and passing a tax cut package that did little to stimulate an already stimulated economy and added $1.9 trillion to our debt. It further damaged the GOP’s damaged approach to fiscal responsibility.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  9. Perfect post.

    Trump is damaging the Rule of Law, and his supporters don’t realize or don’t care why that matters.

    DRJ (03cb91)

  10. You know what they call Liz at the lone Denny’s in Cheyenne, Wyoming?

    Toast.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  11. Further, this post shows why Trump and his supporters aren’t conservative, no matter how much they claim they are.

    DRJ (03cb91)

  12. the rule of law always makes a stunning comeback when the subject turns to trump

    but the rally always fizzles cuz too many players switch teams when the subject changes

    JF (e1156d)

  13. Paul, I disagreed with some aspects of the tax cut, but you are setting quite a low bar for “damage”.

    Policy is diffrerent than the man promoting it. Trump was a terrible president, but his policy problems had more to do with his inability to get things passed and his ability to make the most reasonable thing seem deranged, than with the general aim of his purported policies (you may quibble here about whether his true policies differed from his announced ones).

    That Cheney voted 93% with the administration does not in any way impact her principled stand against Trump’s attacks on the electoral process. If anything it strengthens her stand — the Democrats may claim they are also standing on principle, but it’s more likely they are just doing what their base demands.

    Again, the Trump base demands that Republicans attack “the Steal” while the Democrat base demands their representatives attack our economic system. To me they both suck. So long as Trump is not in office, though, I will vote for the assh0les on the Right versus the assh0les on the Left.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  14. Well some Republicans are doing their best to ensure that if Trump does run again in 2024 his way will be as smooth as possible.

    In Florida De Santis signed a new law whose provisions make it more difficult to vote:

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/05/ron-desantis-voting-law-fox-news-exclusive.html

    Most media was excluded from the signing which became instead an exclusive event held for Fox News only.

    Victor (4959fb)

  15. Purging Neocons; the tail no longer wags the dog.

    Welcome to 1964.

    Glorious.

    ‘Another One Bites The Dust’ – Queen, 1980

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  16. The so-called ‘Rule of Law’ has been a joke to Americans for decades.

    Lori Loughlin did more time than Richard Nixon ever did; or Donald Trump ever will.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  17. Great analysis of McCarthy’s sycophancy:

    Kevin McCarthy’s GOP is Tired of Hearing the Truth

    Careful observers will have noticed something peculiar in this chain of events: McCarthy is moving to push Cheney out of her leadership position for saying in May what he’d said repeatedly himself months before. McCarthy knows that Trump is lying about the election. He knows that Cheney is telling the truth. And he’s choosing Trump anyway.

    A politician with a modicum of moral sensibility might be embarrassed by the embrace of such an obvious falsehood. Kevin McCarthy is not such a politician. Two weeks after declaring on the House floor that Donald Trump “bears responsibility for Wednesday’s attack on Congress by mob rioters,” McCarthy traveled to Mar-a-Lago to enlist Trump’s help in achieving his career-long objective of becoming speaker of the House.

    These kinds of compromises have become commonplace over the last five years. They don’t jump out at us the way they used to, the way they ought to. But there’s something rather extraordinary about it all. McCarthy is on the record saying that Trump is lying about the election results and that he blames Trump for instigating the insurrection on January 6. But he believes that the path to the speakership runs through Mar-a-Lago. And if that means hugging the guy lying about the election, the guy who fomented an insurrection, so be it.

    There are other inconsistencies here. After Cheney voted to impeach Trump, the House GOP conference held a no-confidence vote on her position as the number three leader among House Republicans. Cheney easily prevailed, 145-61, and McCarthy spoke on her behalf, arguing that the GOP was big enough, and mature enough, to welcome different views. “This Republican Party is a very big tent,” he said. “Everyone is invited in.”

    Not anymore. McCarthy talks regularly with Trump, who has made no secret of his desire to see Cheney ousted. And Trump priorities become McCarthy priorities. (This is, after all, the guy who once separated Trump’s favorite Starburst flavors from the undesirables.)

    (Links in original)

    Read the whole thing…

    Dave (1bb933)

  18. If Trump were to die, or be jailed, or retire from politics in the next year, would the GOP’s base simply do what the Democrats did after 2000 (resent but then move on)?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  19. There are lots of untruths. For example the patently silly untruth that “this time socialism will work” is being promoted by the Democrat base. AOC wants a command economy (with her issuing the commands). Focusing on one hobbyhorse like Donald Trump who won’t outlive the decade seems irresponsible to me.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  20. For example the patently silly untruth that “this time socialism will work” is being promoted by the Democrat base.

    If you want to classify a New Deal/Great Society welfare state as “socialism”, then it works tolerably well in many wealthy countries.

    Not the system either of us would prefer, but the EU and Canada are not North Korea, Cuba or Venezuela.

    Dave (1bb933)

  21. You can argue that spending a lot of federal money to help people with child care, elder care, retire student loan debt, etc. is foolish and will bankrupt the country. I disagree, but it’s an argument I guess. I am not sure how that suddenly becomes a socialistic command economy. It seem more like giving people the financial options to command their own lives.

    And the day that AOC convinces Manchin to change his mind about something is the day I’d begin worrying about her dictatorial control of the U.S. government.

    Victor (4959fb)

  22. none of the wealthy countries that enjoy mild socialism share a 1500 mile long border with a third world subcontinent

    and all have stricter immigration policies than us

    JF (e1156d)

  23. Not the system either of us would prefer, but the EU and Canada are not North Korea, Cuba or Venezuela.
    Dave (1bb933) — 5/6/2021 @ 10:21 am

    They aren’t the US, either. I know socialism won’t work anywhere; democratic socialism won’t work here.

    Hoi Polloi (121542)

  24. Trump made it clear before the election that he would not accept a defeat as a legitimate outcome. That was his pathological narcissism speaking.

    His defenders said it was ridiculous to think he wouldn’t gracefully accept a defeat. When he did not, they then went about trying to find justifications for his refusal to concede, and trashing the people in their own party who said he had lost legitimately.

    Now they whitewash a violent attack on the Capitol intended to overturn the election — the day after Steve Bannon said: “All hell will break loose tomorrow. It will be quite extraordinarily different. All I can say is strap in.” And “Tomorrow is game day. So many people said, man, if I was in revolution I would be in Washington. Well, this is your time in history.” Etc.

    The “intellectual” Trumpers alternate between saying that the rioters had a noble purpose, and that the rioters have nothing at all to do with us. They disingenuously argue that Trump did nothing to incite the violence committed by the people he subsequently praised, and which he has never criticized.

    It all starts with Trump’s massive but fragile ego and his self-centered view of right and wrong. Trumpers won’t acknowledge this obvious characteristic of their idol. Instead, they have bound themselves to the agenda of always stroking his ego.

    Radegunda (cc822d)

  25. Canada is rated economically more free than the US. There are places in the US where economic freedom has already been severely impacted by the state. There is no general right to contract in California, for example.

    The “New Deal” is words you are putting in to my mouth, and it is disingenuous to compare that with current proposals like the New Green Deal, which supposes an economic dictatorship. The original New Deal (e.g. the National Industrial Recovery Act) was pretty hard Left in any event. Go read up on the NIRA (sometimes called the NRA) and tell me it’s not state control of the economy.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  26. How about pushing and passing a tax cut package that did little to stimulate an already stimulated economy and added $1.9 trillion to our debt.

    An amount Biden matched in his first months in office. By a tax cut, if you look at it carefully.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  27. ‘Reagan formed a broad coalition from across the political spectrum to return America to sanity, and we need to do the same now…’ -Daughter Darth

    Sanity? Liz, Liz, Liz… you do realize Trump is a Reagan Creation, sweetie. We know the pull to the Dark Side channels from Darth Daddy, dear; Trump is the GOP; he is ‘you’– well, 93% of the time, anyway:

    Was Reagan a Precursor to Trump? A New Documentary Says Yes

    “The Reagans,” a new Showtime docu-series, presents Ronald Reagan as an early practitioner of dog-whistle politics.”

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/11/arts/television/the-reagans.html

    _____

    Anti-Trumpers and old rearview mirror Neocon types can’t recognize genuine ‘evil’ when they see it- even in themselves. It wasn’t the bombastic showman; ’tis the Sinister Swampster who speaks in whisperers from behind silvered aviators. Neocons could not lead, will not follow– so now either get out of the way– get run over — or run out of town.

    Liz represents 600,000 people in a wilderness where bears, beaver and buffalo outnumber people. That’s not 21st century America. She can always try going back to ‘fair-and-balanced’ Fox as a commentator– if they’d have her these days.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  28. Voting protections are always voting restrictions to those that don’t want voting protected.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  29. And the day that AOC convinces Manchin to change his mind about something is the day I’d begin worrying about her dictatorial control of the U.S. government.

    I think you’ll find something else to worry about then. Maybe abortion or the lack of a federal lawn-mowing corps.

    In any event AOC will be challenging Harris for the nomination in 2024 (she becomes eligible a week before the 2024 election). If you think “I’m a black woman” is a surefire argument for Harris, go talk to Jackie Lacey.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  30. I looked this up for my conversation with Time, on the other thread:

    https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/liz-cheney/

    I’m not sure how someone who voted 93% of the time for the damage Trump heaped on this nation is deserving of any cheers, let alone three. Why wasn’t she a stand up person during the years of his tyranny?

    BuDuh (1c160d) — 5/6/2021 @ 9:05 am

    I don’t think it is correct to criticize Cheney for having voted 93 percent of the time with the Trump administration, for the purposes of trying to tie her as a Trump sycophant. Cheney is a conservative Republican, and had conservative views before the ascendancy of Trumpism, and maintains these views to this point. It would be intellectually inconsistent for any elected official to change their views on taxes, judges, regulations, immigration, just because someone like Trump happened to support it. The Trump administration did do some things consistent with a typical right of center Republican administration, and a conservative Republican representative or senator will naturally have higher percentages as a result of their ideology.

    Having a conservative voting record and being a sycophantic toady to Trump are separate things.

    HCI (92ea66)

  31. I know socialism won’t work anywhere; democratic socialism won’t work here.

    Trumper intellectuals have abandoned (and trashed) classical liberalism, and have said we should have a Canadian-style health-care system, and government subsidies for home purchases, and more protectionist economic policies, and government takeover of social media, and a “common good” philosophy instead of all that liberty stuff.

    Early Trump boosters argued that his genius was combining left-liberal economic policy with a conservative stance on immigration and culture. I’ve seen a Trumper try to argue that it was Donald the Great who wanted to raise wages (by law) while the Dems wanted only to serve the wealthy elites and the welfare class. Never mind that raising the minimum wage was on the Dem platform, not the GOP one.

    I’ll grant that Republicans today don’t seem to like the “democratic” part of “democratic socialism,” but many of the open-leaders on the right have openly or tacitly accepted much of the socialist part.

    Radegunda (cc822d)

  32. *opinion-leaders

    Radegunda (cc822d)

  33. Having a conservative voting record and being a sycophantic toady to Trump are separate things.

    The drive to replace Cheney with Stefanik is a clear demonstration that stroking Trump’s ego takes priority over promoting a certain policy agenda.

    Radegunda (cc822d)

  34. She is Don Quixote tilting at windmills and trying to further balkanize the party to help the radical left that’s running all branches of government. She cannot be voted out of power and her office soon enough.

    It’s not about her. It’s about the people she’s supposed to represent.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  35. You can donate to Liz Cheney here: https://cheneyforwyoming.com/

    Her winning her seat in 2022 is the best way to argue against Trumpism.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  36. “I am a conservative Republican, and the most conservative of conservative values is reverence for the rule of law.”

    Pffft.

    Iran-Contra. =mike-drop=

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  37. @3. “…I consider the Democrat Party to also be an existential threat…

    Of Kevin M, I am reminded of what Benjamin Franklin is purported to have said of John Adams:

    I am persuaded, however, that Mr. Adams meant well for his country, was always an honest man, often a wise one, but sometimes and in some things, absolutely out of his senses.

    George W. Bush was not an existential threat.
    Al Gore was not an existential threat.
    John Kerry was not an existential threat.
    Barak Obama was not an existential threat.
    John McCain was not an existential threat.
    Mitt Romney was not an existential threat.
    Hilary Clinton was not an existential threat.

    Donald Trump was and is an existential threat.
    Joe Biden is not an existential threat.

    From your comment history here, I would judge that you mean well for your country, are usually an honest man, sometimes a wise one, but in some things—including this one—absolutely out of your senses. Your position is one that has been relentlessly repeated by populist obsessives of both sides in all nations throughout history, sometimes correctly but, no matter the intensity and surety with which it’s expressed, usually not. In this time and in this place and under this Constitution it is simple assertion unsupported by fact or logic.

    Donald Trump was and remains an existential threat to our nation. The facts and logic are that on January 6th, 2021, a purposeful, planned assault on the Capitol threatened our representative democracy’s free and fair elections, our constitutional republic, and our Constitution itself. Because if, without evidence and despite losing in every court, the loser of an election succeeds in simply refusing to accept the outcome, the Constitution is meaningless. Once it becomes routine that election candidates feel no societal obligation to accept the result, our constitutional republic is broken.

    Had George W. Bush or Barack Obama been presented the opportunity of a guaranteed electoral victory but at the cost of America surviving only as a broken republic, I have no doubt neither would have taken it. There’s also no doubt that Donald Trump would have accepted it in an instant. Indeed, as a sitting President, he sought to prevent a successor chosen by the American people from taking office, tried to turn our elected representatives into sycophants pledging loyalty only to him, strove to replace our representative democracy, our Democratic Republic, with his own Oligarchic or Plutocratic Republic.

    America prevailed, proving resilient enough to survive this persistent Presidential perfidy—this time. Yet Trump tried, to the best of his abilities. Do not give him credit for trying, but failing. This would-be king, a caudillo unfit to be the ruler of a free people, must never again be allowed the opportunity to subvert American democracy.

    Purple Martin (bce78a)

  38. @35. Buffalo nickels? 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  39. Radegunda (cc822d) — 5/6/2021 @ 10:51 am

    I could make an argument that both parties pandered to Wall Street and the upper middle-class since between the 1994 midterms and 2016. Oh, they both had other groups that they also pandered to, but these they had in common.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  40. I don’t see how making it more difficult to vote, and more painful (Florida has adopted the no rule criminalizing giving people water) “protects” the vote, let alone Florida’s special new laws giving the governor new power to fill vacancies in local offices:

    The new Florida law includes by-now-familiar restrictions on voting like limiting the availability of ballot drop boxes, making it more difficult to vote by mail, and preventing groups from offering water or snacks to people waiting in long voting lines. Once people get in to vote in person, they could be confronted by the army of partisan poll watchers the new law allows, who will be able to crowd in around election workers. Additionally it replaces special elections for some local office vacancies with appointments by the governor—at a time when DeSantis is also delaying a special election in a majority-Black district for 280 days after the death of Rep. Alcee Hastings.

    https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2021/5/6/2029223/-DeSantis-practically-begs-for-Trump-s-attention-by-signing-voter-suppression-bill-on-Fox-News

    Victor (4959fb)

  41. Donald Trump was and is an existential threat.

    Something I have long said. But we are NOT talking about Donald Trump. He lost, however narrowly. He’s a bogeyman at this point.

    Joe Biden is not an existential threat.

    Unlike Trump, he himself is not. But the policies he is promoting and the whackjob wing of his party who he increasingly tilts toward IS. Not in the electoral (or national security) sense that Trump was, but in as wholesale threat to free enterprise and economic freedom. AOC and her cohort may not be in charge yet, but they have plans. Oh, do they have plans.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  42. @35. You can donate to Liz Cheney…

    ROFLMAO Lest you forget:

    RAWLINS, Wyo. (AP) — The Wyoming Republican Party voted overwhelmingly to censure U.S. Rep. Liz Cheney for voting to impeach President Donald Trump for his role in the Jan. 6 riot at the U.S. Capitol. Only eight of the 74-member state GOP’s central committee stood to oppose censure in a vote that didn’t proceed to a formal count. – source, AP, 2/6/21

    Throwing good money after bad:

    Reaganomics. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  43. I agree with NJRob. I find Rep Cheney’s adherence to the truth admirable and I think it demonstrates character that we want in a leader. But she’s out of touch with what the GOP base wants. Her character and unwillingness to lie for the glory of Trump make her a poor choice for house leadership in the modern GOP. She should maintain her seat until her constituents pick someone else but step down from her leadership position. The liar from from NY or one of the Q-anon supporters are better fits.

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  44. You can argue that spending a lot of federal money to help people with child care, elder care, retire student loan debt, etc. is foolish and will bankrupt the country. I disagree, but it’s an argument I guess. I am not sure how that suddenly becomes a socialistic command economy. It seem more like giving people the financial options to command their own lives.

    I strongly disagree that we should do these things via deficit spending. Either cut spending elsewhere, raise taxes, or don’t do these things.

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  45. Donald Trump was and is an existential threat.

    Something I have long said. But we are NOT talking about Donald Trump. He lost, however narrowly. He’s a bogeyman at this point.

    When the #3 in house leadership is being pushed out because he doesn’t like her he’s more then a boogeyman.

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  46. The New Greed Deal, which the entire Democrat Party signed on to, is a call for an economic dictatorship. A society regimented to fight climate change and whatever else comes to mind.

    AOC is to Nehemiah Scudder* as the economic dictatorship is to religious dictatorship.

    *Heinlein reference

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  47. *Green, not Greed. Freudian slip

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  48. When the #3 in house leadership is being pushed out because he doesn’t like her he’s more then a boogeyman.

    Keep your eye on the magician’s front hand then.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  49. I strongly disagree that we should do these things via deficit spending. Either cut spending elsewhere, raise taxes, or don’t do these things.

    I’m not sure whether this is being financed by selling more bonds to the Chinese, or just straight printing-press fabrication. Either is bad, but the reasons differ.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  50. Worse, though, is that these are permanent entitlement programs, not one-offs. Is there ANYONE who is willing to stand up and say, on the record, that new permanent entitlement programs are a good idea when we cannot fund the ones we have?

    3-year-olds will do just fine without going to preschool. Most everyone did. But let Medicare or Social Security collapse and you’ll have more deaths in a year than Covid-19 ever thought of.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  51. 1. How much of the “93%” became actual law? It’s seems like an almost irrelevant number. The House doesn’t vote on judges….so other than the tax cut bill….which was arguably too big…..what legislation did the Trump-led-GOP actually get through? Again, that’s not all Trump’s fault….polarization didn’t start in 2016….but Trump did fail across the board at gaining any consensus and at building decisive public support for the jumbled agenda he weakly pressed. Trump was about pushing memes to build polarization…weighing in on kneeling athletes…..civil war monuments…..and the names of military bases. Never trying to bring people together or defuse situations…always looking to create drama.

    2. Massive government spending in higher education will just lead to more and more inflation in that market…..just as it did with government-driven health care…..and just as it will do with child care. Hey, Lefties control several states….show us how massive spending works in those states first, before exporting it everywhere else. Why are you compelled to go against federalism? If Utah doesn’t want redistribution…..why must they be made to comply? Build your Utopia in Massachusetts and NYC…and let the evidence speak for itself!

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  52. I could make an argument that both parties pandered to Wall Street and the upper middle-class

    And I wouldn’t argue against you. Point is that Trumpist conservative thought-leaders aren’t offering a challenge or alternative to “democratic socialism,” except to the extent that national socialism-lite is an alternative. But there’s some contradictory messaging among the Trumpist right on the whole. What they agree on is that they hate people who criticize Trump.

    Radegunda (cc822d)

  53. “Either cut spending elsewhere, raise taxes, or don’t do these things.”

    Yes, Victor doesn’t really struggle with any debt tipping point. I would wager he’s not quite that ambivalent about global climate tipping points. Until Leftists can say how much debt is too much debt….or pay for some of it with broad-based tax increases….instead of their simplistic and unrealistic jihad against the “rich”…..they’re unserious…kind of like an 8yr old working the family budget.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  54. @51-

    Here are the issues that were scored.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  55. How much of the “93%” became actual law? It’s seems like an almost irrelevant number.

    ROFLMAO

    How many World Series did the Chicago Cubs actually win? “It seems like an almost irrelevant mumber”… for die-hard Cubby fans.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  56. She is Don Quixote tilting at windmills and trying to further balkanize the party

    So she has to be replaced by someone who wants to unite the party around continuing to litigate the 2020 election. Which appears to be the leading doctrine in the GOP today: Trump’s ego must be stroked, at all costs.

    Cheney isn’t “trying to further balkanize the party.” She’s taking the position that the party should not be united around ego-stroking one person at the expense of truth-telling, and that the party should be not be whitewashing a violent assault on the Capitol in which the president’s supporters were declaring that they wanted to hang the VP as a “traitor,” and in which 140+ police where injured as they fulfilled their duty to protect the legislators. The callousness that too many Republicans are showing toward people like Officer Michael Fanone is disgusting.

    Radegunda (cc822d)

  57. @41 & 46. “AOC is to Nehemiah Scudder* as the economic dictatorship is to religious dictatorship.

    To repeat myself, your certainty is that of populist obsessives of both sides in all nations throughout history. I can’t be certain you’re wrong, but the odds are not with you.

    And yes, I’ve been an RAH fan for about 60 years, so understand the reference from that old cosmopolitan globalist. But I’d say we’re closer to either a Trumpian plutocracy or a Scudder-like authoritarian theocracy (Bill Barr’s heartfelt desire), than to your fever dream of an economic dictatorship.

    One thing about populism. It always identifies an enemy—some other that can be blamed for society’s problems. That traditionally involves a xenophobic fear and envy of the Jews, or Blacks, or Asians; but can also be communists, socialists, or even, as in your particular bugaboo, Democratic Socialists.

    But a hint for you…the ones trying to destroy the practices and processes of representative democracy are a lot closer to success than the others.

    Purple Martin (bce78a)

  58. OK I’ll bite. Except for his incredibly toxic personality, his many faults as a human being, and his general incompetence, what POLICY that his administration “heaped on this nation” do you call “damage”? Be specific and show how it damaged us.

    BuDuh wasn’t being serious, Kevin M. He’s taking a pro-Trump (or at least anti-anti-Trump) perspective and combining sarcasm with strawmen/hidden poor assumptions.

    I’ll make his hidden argument explicit:

    Ignoring what you and Cheney said about the rule of law, I will pretend your real argument is opposition to the policies that Trump supported for which Cheney also voted. Having engaged in that distortion of your argument, I will now point out that Cheney mostly supported the same policies. HA! Looks like the argument I constructed for you falls apart! BWAHAHAHA

    Never mind that she very rarely voted for the stuff I actually object to. Confronting that argument honestly would deprive BuDuh of his ability to take cheap, pointless sarcastic shots.

    Patterico (e349ce)

  59. Either cut spending elsewhere, raise taxes, or don’t do these things.”

    Yes, Victor doesn’t really struggle with any debt tipping point. I would wager he’s not quite that ambivalent about global climate tipping points. Until Leftists can say how much debt is too much debt….or pay for some of it with broad-based tax increases….instead of their simplistic and unrealistic jihad against the “rich”…..they’re unserious…kind of like an 8yr old working the family budget.

    It’s true that I think running a deficit is not as critical to the health of the world as the possibility of passing a global climate tipping point. I am not sure why you do.

    I don’t know any leftist or more importantly congressperson/president, who says that all the proposed legislation can be paid purely with taxes on the very rich. Perhaps you can point me to one. I do know that taxing the rich will pay for some of it, as will funding the IRS which estimates that there’s a trillion or so of unpaid taxes it could collect if given more resources (which Republicans refuse to do).

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/irs-biden-taxes-cheating-enforcement-cbo-budget-congress.html

    As for the suggestion we see how the states do with deficit spending, the federal government is of course different. It prints money and can run deficits. The states can’t and don’t.

    I have lived a reasonably long life listening to deficit scolds telling me that runaway inflation is just around the corner if we increase the food stamp budget, but isn’t really a problem if we cut capital gains taxes. Perhaps I have become just a bit cynical as a result.

    But I don’t think there’s a sudden deficit/inflation tipping point, I think that investing in the human being of the U.S. is worth spending the money on, and I trust the Fed to keep an eye on things. And I think most conservative arguments against spending money at this point are, simply, disingenuous.

    Victor (4959fb)

  60. Great comments, Purple Martin.

    Dave (1bb933)

  61. “How many World Series did the Chicago Cubs actually win?”

    Three…..which essentially has nothing to do with Cheney’s votes in the House. If you’re not passing legislation then it’s the equivalent of masturbation. Congress has become little more than Talk Radio.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  62. While I am thinking about it, more about the Florida voting bill which seems to be a reaction to the recent development in Florida that more Democrats than Republicans are using mail in votes:

    But the most significant changes to the state’s voting rights affect mail-in ballots and drop boxes, which 1.5 million Floridians used in November.

    The bill significantly restricts the number of ballot drop boxes and where they can be placed, and limits it who exactly can collect and drop off mail-in ballots. Drop boxes were previously widely accessible in Florida, with many of them available 24 hours a day under security surveillance. Drop boxes now are required to be staffed with an election worker at all times.

    Voters would also be required to request a mail-in ballot for every election cycle. Previously it was every two election cycles. It also adds ID and signature requirements in order to obtain a mail-in ballot, when no such mandates existed before.

    The law also undermines voter registration efforts by requiring that third-party voter registration groups must notify the voters they collect applications from that they may not return their registration application on time, even though they are legally required to do so. Such groups, which help people obtain an absentee ballot request through an easier process, say the provision is designed to confuse voters.

    Trump voted by mail in Florida, as did DeSantis, who has cast a mail-in ballot in six out of seven elections from 2016 to 2020. But 2020’s election cycle was the first time in Florida’s history that the state’s Democrats were the majority of mail-in voters, with 680,000 more absentee ballots than Republicans. About 43% of Florida’s 4.7 million residents voted by mail, with Democrats accounting for 45% of those mail-in votes.

    In 2020, voting by mail doubled among Black voters ― the largest increase among any demographic. The number of Black Floridians who cast mail-in ballots last year increased to more than 500,000 from 2016 and 2018. Black voters also cast 11.4% of all of Florida’s vote-by-mail ballots in 2020, compared with 8.9% in 2016, according to All Voting Is Local.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/florida-governor-signs-bill-restricting-voting-rights_n_608b706ee4b046202705b6d2

    Victor (4959fb)

  63. The “New Deal” is words you are putting in to my mouth, and it is disingenuous to compare that with current proposals like the New Green Deal, which supposes an economic dictatorship.

    That sounds like hyperbole (does the dictatorship involve election theft and mob attacks on uncompliant elected officials? Oh, wait, that’s the other guys…). In any case, the GND is not supported by a considerable number of Democrats, so it’s essentially a straw-man.

    The original New Deal (e.g. the National Industrial Recovery Act) was pretty hard Left in any event. Go read up on the NIRA (sometimes called the NRA) and tell me it’s not state control of the economy.

    To be sure, but clearly it wasn’t an existential threat, and didn’t turn America into a socialist country.

    Dave (1bb933)

  64. Only eight of the 74-member state GOP’s central committee

    Things happen differently in secret ballots. Things happen differently in primaries than at the central committee.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  65. Stefanik defends election falsehoods told on Jan. 6

    [through a spokesperson]

    Four pinnochios…

    Dave (1bb933)

  66. Great comments, Purple Martin.

    Except for arguing against a point I did not make, yes.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  67. To be sure, but clearly it wasn’t an existential threat, and didn’t turn America into a socialist country.

    Yes, it was, and no it didn’t because the Supreme Court struck it down and the measure was never reintroduced after the Court was brought to heel.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  68. Under the NIRA, the government not only combined companies into trusts, but then made it a patriotic act to shun companies that refused to join up. The Blue Eagle campaign and the divisions it caused were fascism with an American face. The only really good thing that happened during that time was the assassination of Huey Long, that era’s AOC.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  69. When the #3 in house leadership is being pushed out because he doesn’t like her he’s more then a boogeyman.

    Keep your eye on the magician’s front hand then.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 5/6/2021 @ 11:22 am

    I don’t know what you mean here. I’m asserting that Trump is a powerful leader within the GOP and that if he doesn’t set direction for the party he at a minimum vetoes any direction he dislikes. As proof of this i offer the current fight.

    Time123 (dba73f)

  70. New Green Deal, which supposes an economic dictatorship.
    How else would you accomplish the following?

    On February 7, 2019, Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Senator Edward Markey released a fourteen-page resolution for their Green New Deal (House Resolution 109, closely related to S. Res. 59).[84] Their proposal advocated transitioning the United States to 100% renewable, zero-emission energy sources, along with investment in electric cars and high-speed rail systems, and implementing the “social cost of carbon” that had been part of the Obama administration’s plan for addressing climate change within 10 years. Besides increasing state-sponsored jobs, this Green New Deal is also sought to address poverty by aiming much of the improvements in “frontline and vulnerable communities” which include the poor and disadvantaged people. The resolution included calls for universal health care, increased minimum wages, and preventing monopolies.[85]

    According to The Washington Post (February 11, 2019), the resolution called for a “10-year national mobilization” whose primary goals would be:[86]

    “Guaranteeing a job with a family-sustaining wage, adequate family and medical leave, paid vacations, and retirement security to all people of the United States.”
    “Providing all people of the United States with – (i) high-quality health care; (ii) affordable, safe, and adequate housing; (iii) economic security; and (iv) access to clean water, clean air, healthy and affordable food, and nature.”
    “Providing resources, training, and high-quality education, including higher education, to all people of the United States.”
    “Meeting 100 percent of the power demand in the United States through clean, renewable, and zero-emission energy sources.”
    “Repairing and upgrading the infrastructure in the United States, including . . . by eliminating pollution and greenhouse gas emissions as much as technologically feasible.”
    “Building or upgrading to energy-efficient, distributed, and ‘smart’ power grids, and working to ensure affordable access to electricity.”
    “Upgrading all existing buildings in the United States and building new buildings to achieve maximal energy efficiency, water efficiency, safety, affordability, comfort, and durability, including through electrification.”
    “Overhauling transportation systems in the United States to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the transportation sector as much as is technologically feasible, including through investment in – (i) zero-emission vehicle infrastructure and manufacturing; (ii) clean, affordable, and accessible public transportation; and (iii) high-speed rail.”
    “Spurring massive growth in clean manufacturing in the United States and removing pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from manufacturing and industry as much as is technologically feasible.”
    “Working collaboratively with farmers and ranchers in the United States to eliminate pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from the agricultural sector as much as is technologically feasible.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_New_Deal#Green_New_Deal_Resolution

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  71. The act was in force for almost two years, and was struck down a few weeks before it was set to expire.

    Dave (1bb933)

  72. In any case, the GND is not supported by a considerable number of Democrats, so it’s essentially a straw-man.

    Again,m from WIkipedia. I believe this comprises “a considerable number”

    Former vice presidents

    Al Gore, 45th Vice President of the United States, former United States Senator from Tennessee, Former US Representative from Tennessee’s 6th congressional district and 4th congressional district, environmentalist, filmmaker[114]

    Individuals

    Joseph Stiglitz, Nobel laureate in economics, professor at Columbia University, and chief economist of the Roosevelt Institute.[115]
    Jill Stein, former Green party presidential candidate in 2012 and 2016[61]
    Howie Hawkins, Green party co-founder and first American political candidate to run on the promise of a Green New Deal[62]
    Jagmeet Singh, Leader of the New Democratic Party of Canada endorsed a Canadian Green New Deal[116]
    Ban Ki-moon, former UN Secretary-General[117]
    Mike Gravel, former US Senator from Alaska and candidate in the 2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries[118]
    Paul Krugman, Nobel laureate in economics, professor at the Graduate Center of the City University of New York, and a columnist for The New York Times.[119]
    Bill Maher, comedian, political commentator, and television host[120]
    Bria Vinaite recorded a “Green New Deal” video for Vogue Magazine in 2018[68]
    Marianne Williamson, candidate in the 2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries[121]
    Andrew Yang, candidate in the 2020 Democratic Party presidential primaries[122]

    Senators

    Ed Markey, US Senator from Massachusetts[123]
    Jeff Merkley, US Senator from Oregon[124]
    Bernie Sanders, US Senator from Vermont, Ranking Member of the Senate Budget Committee[125][126]
    Kirsten Gillibrand, US Senator from New York[127]
    Elizabeth Warren, US Senator from Massachusetts[128]
    Mazie Hirono, US Senator from Hawaii[citation needed]
    Ron Wyden, US Senator from Oregon[129]
    Richard Blumenthal US Senator from Connecticut[130]
    Cory Booker, US Senator from New Jersey[131]
    Amy Klobuchar, US Senator from Minnesota[132]
    Chris Murphy, US Senator from Connecticut[130]
    Chris Van Hollen, US Senator from Maryland[133]
    Martin Heinrich, US Senator from New Mexico.[134]
    Tom Udall, US Senator from New Mexico.[135]

    Representatives

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, US Representative from New York’s 14th congressional district.[136]
    Alcee Hastings, US Representative from Florida’s 20th congressional District.[137]
    Rashida Tlaib, US Representative from Michigan’s 13th congressional district.[138]
    Jose Serrano, US Representative from New York’s 15th congressional district.[137]
    Carolyn Maloney, US Representative from New York’s 12th congressional district.[137]
    Juan Vargas, US Representative from California’s 51st congressional district.[137]
    Adriano Espaillat, US Representative from New York’s 13th congressional district.[139]
    Stephen F. Lynch, US Representative from Massachusetts’ 8th congressional district.[137]
    Nydia Velázquez, Chair of the House Small Business Committee and US Representative from New York’s 7th congressional district.[137]
    Earl Blumenauer, US Representative from Oregon’s 3rd congressional district.[140]
    Brendan Boyle, US Representative from Pennsylvania’s 2nd congressional district.[141]
    Joaquin Castro, US Representative from Texas 20th congressional district.[137]
    Yvette Clarke, US Representative from New York’s 9th congressional district.[142]
    Pramila Jayapal, US Representative from Washington’s 7th congressional district.[143]
    Ro Khanna, US Representative from California’s 17th congressional district.[144]
    Ted Lieu, US Representative from California’s 33rd congressional district.[137]
    Ayanna Pressley, US Representative from Massachusetts’s 7th congressional district.[145]
    Peter Welch, US Representative from Vermont At Large.[146]
    Eliot Engel, Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee and US Representative from New York’s 16th congressional district.[147]
    Joe Neguse, US Representative from Colorado’s 2nd congressional district.[148]
    Jerry Nadler, Chair of the House Judiciary Committee and US Representative from New York’s 10th congressional district.[137]
    James McGovern, Chair of the House Rules Committee and US Representative from Massachusetts’s 2nd congressional district.[137]
    Mark Pocan, Co-Chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus and US Representative from Wisconsin’s 2nd congressional district.[143]
    Mark Takano, Chair of the House Veterans’ Affairs Committee and US Representative from California’s 41st congressional district.[137]
    Eleanor Holmes Norton, Delegate to the US House of Representatives from the District of Columbia’s at-large district.[137]
    Jamie Raskin, US Representative from Maryland 8th congressional district.[137]
    Gerry Connolly, US Representative from Virginia’s 11th congressional district.[137]
    Alan Lowenthal, US Representative from California’s 47th congressional district.[149]
    Doris Matsui, US Representative from California’s 6th congressional district.[150]
    Mike Thompson, US Representative from California’s 5th congressional district.[151]
    Mike Levin, US Representative from California’s 49th congressional district.[152]
    Chellie Pingree, US Representative from Maine’s 1st congressional district.[137]
    Mike Quigley, US Representative from Illinois’s 5th congressional district.[153]
    Jared Huffman, US Representative from California’s 2nd congressional district.[154]
    Bonnie Watson Coleman, US Representative from New Jersey’s 12th congressional district.[137]
    Jesús “Chuy” García, US Representative from Illinois’s 4th congressional district.[155]
    Brian Higgins, US Representative from New York’s 26th congressional district.[137]
    Deb Haaland, US Representative from New Mexico’s 1st congressional district.[156]
    Grace Meng, US Representative from New Yorks’s 6th congressional district.[137]
    Salud Carbajal, US Representative from California’s 24th congressional district.[137]
    David Cicilline, US Representative from Rhode Island’s 1st congressional district.[157]
    Steve Cohen, US Representative from Tennessee’s 9th congressional district.[137]
    Katherine Clark, Vice Chair of the House Democratic Caucus and US Representative from Massachusetts’s 5th congressional district.[137]
    Judy Chu, US Representative from California’s 27th congressional district.[137]
    Debbie Mucarsel-Powell, US Representative from Florida’s 26th congressional district.[137]
    Seth Moulton,US Representative from Massachusetts’ 6th congressional district and former 2020 Presidential candidate.[158]
    Raúl Grijalva, Chair of the House Natural Resources Committee and US Representative from Arizona’s 3rd congressional district.[159]
    Gregory Meeks, US Representative from New York’s 5th congressional district.[137]
    Gregorio Sablan, Delegate to the US House of Representatives from the Northern Mariana Islands’ at-large district.[160]
    Barbara Lee, US Representative from California’s 13th congressional district.[137]
    Suzanne Bonamici, US Representative from Oregon’s 1st congressional district.[137]
    Sean Patrick Maloney, US Representative from New York’s 18th congressional district.[161]
    Janice Schakowsky, US Representative from Illinois 9th congressional district.[137]
    Rosa DeLauro, US Representative from Connecticut’s 3rd congressional district.[137]
    Andy Levin, US Representative from Michigan’s 9th congressional district.[162]
    Betty McCollum, US Representative from Minnesota’s 4th congressional district.[163]
    Mark DeSaulnier, US Representative from California’s 11th congressional district.[137]
    Joe Courtney, US Representative from Connecticut’s 2nd congressional district.[137]
    John Larson, US Representative from Connecticut’s 1st congressional district.[137]
    Veronica Escobar, US Representative from Texas 16th congressional district.[137]
    Adam Schiff, Chair of the House Intelligence Committee and US Representative from California’s 28th congressional district.[137]
    Bill Keating (politician), US Representative from Massachusetts’s 9th congressional district.[137]
    Peter DeFazio, Chair of the House Transportation Committee and US Representative from Oregon’s 4th congressional district.[164]
    Anna Eshoo, US Representative from California’s 18th congressional district.[137]
    Lori Trahan, US Representative from Massachusetts’s 3rd congressional district.[165]
    Jimmy Gomez, US Representative from California’s 34th congressional district.[166]
    Joe Kennedy III, US Representative from Massachusetts’s 4th congressional district and 2020 US Senate candidate.[167]
    Maxine Waters, Chair of the House Financial Services Committee and US Representative from California’s 43rd congressional district.[137]
    Lacy Clay, US Representative from Missouri’s 1st congressional district.[168]
    Nita Lowey, Chair of the House Appropriations Committee and US Representative from New York’s 17th congressional district.[169]
    Thomas Suozzi, US Representative from New York’s 3rd congressional district.[170]
    Linda Sanchez, former Vice Chair of the House Democratic Caucus and US Representative from California’s 38th congressional district.[137]
    David Price, US Representative from North Carolina’s 4th congressional district.[137]
    John Sarbanes, US Representative from Maryland’s 3rd congressional district.[171]
    Karen Bass, US Representative from California’s 37th congressional district.[137]
    Eric Swalwell, US Representative from California’s 15th congressional district and former 2020 Presidential candidate.[137]
    Jackie Speier, US Representative from California’s 14th congressional district.[137]
    Bobby Scott (politician), Chair of the House Education and Labor Committee and US Representative from Virginia’s 3rd congressional district.[137]
    Grace Napolitano, US Representative from California’s 32nd congressional district.[137]
    Adam Smith, Chair of the House Armed Services Committee and US Representative from Washington’s 9th congressional district.[172]
    Zoe Lofgren, Chair of the House Administration Committee and US Representative from California’s 19th congressional district.[137]
    Jimmy Panetta, US Representative from California’s 20th congressional district.[137]
    Nanette Barragan, US Representative from California’s 44th congressional district.[137]
    Elijah Cummings, Chair of the House Oversight Committee and US Representative from Maryland’s 7th congressional district.[137]
    Danny K. Davis, US Representative from Illinois’s 7th congressional district.[137]
    Jahana Hayes, US Representative from Connecticut’s 5th congressional district.[173]
    Brad Sherman , US Representative from California’s 30th congressional district.[137]
    Alma Adams, US Representative from North Carolina’s 12th congressional district.[137]
    Lloyd Doggett, US Representative from Texas 35th congressional district.[137]
    John Garamendi, US Representative from California’s 3rd congressional district.[137]
    Dutch Ruppersberger, US Representative from Maryland’s 2nd congressional district.[174]
    Bill Pascrell, US Representative from New Jersey’s 9th congressional district.[175]
    Pete Aguilar, US Representative from California’s 31st congressional district.[137]
    Ben Ray Lujan, Assistant Speaker of the US Representative from New Mexico’s 1st congressional district and 2020 candidate for US Senate.[176]
    Susan Davis, US Representative from California’s 53rd congressional district.[176]
    Marcia Fudge, US Representative from Ohio’s 11th congressional district.[177]
    Beto O’Rourke, former US Representative From Texas 16th congressional district, 2018 US Senate Nominee in Texas.[178]

    Governors

    Andrew Cuomo, Governor of New York.[179]
    Jay Inslee, Governor of Washington and former 2020 Presidential candidate.[180]
    Michelle Lujan Grisham, Governor of New Mexico.[181]
    Janet Mills, Governor of Maine.[182]

    Mayors

    Pete Buttigieg, former mayor of South Bend[183]
    Bill De Blasio, Mayor of New York City and former 2020 Presidential candidate.[184]
    Wayne Messam, Mayor of Miramar, Florida[185]

    Organizations

    The Climate Mobilization, which advocates a “World War II-scale economic mobilization to restore a safe climate.”
    The Democracy in Europe Movement 2025 (DieM25), a pan-European political activist group of over 100.000 members for progressive EU and global economics policy, founded by Yanis Varoufakis[186]
    The European Green Party and The Greens–European Free Alliance campaigned on the Green New Deal in the 2009 European Parliament election and maintain an ongoing European “Green New Deal” campaign
    The Global Greens support a Global Green New Deal.[187]
    Green Party of the United States has endorsed the Green New Deal in its party platform.[188]
    The Heinrich Böll Foundation published proposals for a Green New Deal in Germany, the European Union, as well as North America,[189] Israel,[190] and Ukraine.[191]
    The League of Conservation Voters is an American advocacy group for environmental issues[192]
    The New Economics Foundation and The Green New Deal Group (United Kingdom)[193]
    openDemocracy[194]
    Sierra Club Living Economy Program[77]
    The United Nations Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific, who developed the Low Carbon Green Growth Roadmap for Asia and the Pacific
    The United Nations Environment Programme launched a Green Economy Initiative known as the “Global Green New Deal”.[195]
    The Global Marshall Plan Initiative advocates for a sustainable global economy[196]

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  73. Kevin, I’m not sure cheering on past assassinations is particularly tasteful.

    Saying that there is a comparable politician today pretty directly implies that you would consider AOC’s assassination a good thing too.

    Maybe we see the ethics of assassinations differently? Or maybe I’m misreading your words?

    nate_w (25619c)

  74. And I guess if you’re cool with assassination (are you?) it gives me some insight as to why you haven’t viewed Trump’s destruction of our democratic norms as a MUCH BIGGER DEAL than, like, economic policy.

    nate_w (25619c)

  75. I believe this comprises “a considerable number”

    God, you know what I meant.

    Your list has 14 senators and 96 sitting congresscritters. For those keeping score, that’s 36 votes short of passing the Senate, and 122 votes short in the House.

    Like I said, strawman.

    Dave (1bb933)

  76. Kevin, while I agree with some of Trump’s tax cuts (specifically the cuts in corporate and capital gains rates), the rest provided slim benefit relative to the cost. Because of the fiscal irresponsibility, the bill is a net negative. Damage is defined as “injury or harm that reduces value or usefulness” so, to me, our fiscal situation was damaged on net because we’ll be paying interest on that extra $1.9 trillion of debt for decades to come. If you want to change the subject and say Biden is doing the same, I’m not going to argue. Much. The difference between Trump and Biden is that it’s more prudent to deficit-spend when the economy is in decline instead of when it’s firing on all cylinders.
    Another Trump policy that caused even more severe damage is his gross mismanagement and dishonesty in handling the pandemic. Cuomo’s sins pale. The blood of hundreds of thousands of dead Americans is on Trump’s hands.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  77. “Until Leftists can say how much debt is too much debt….or pay for some of it with broad-based tax increases….instead of their simplistic and unrealistic jihad against the “rich”…..they’re unserious…kind of like an 8yr old working the family budget.”

    You can always tell who is in the white house by how concerned Republicans are about debt.

    Davethulhu (6ba00b)

  78. Kevin,

    I looked at your Green New Deal list of horrors. It seems to me that all of them could be accomplished through normal legislation by democratic processes, whether you liked the result or not. Which require dictatorship?

    Victor (4959fb)

  79. 34.She is Don Quixote tilting at windmills and trying to further balkanize the party to help the radical left that’s running all branches of government. She cannot be voted out of power and her office soon enough.

    It’s not about her. It’s about the people she’s supposed to represent.

    Wyoming’s 600,000? No. The corporate interests outside of Wyoming who donate and seek servicing contracts and sub-contracts for perpetual war supplier Halliburton? Yes.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  80. “But I don’t think there’s a sudden deficit/inflation tipping point, I think that investing in the human being of the U.S. is worth spending the money on”

    I would caution to say that Aesop’s Boy that Cried Wolf did eventually get eaten. It may not be a cliff moment….as we are much different than Greece….but debt eventually strangled the empires of Spain in the 17th century, France in the 18th century, and Britain in the 20th century. Yes, our economy is big and the reserve currency and we are certainly printing money….and foreign ownership of our debt is not yet onerous….but you’re suggesting an economic trajectory that’s not been seen before. Our current debt service is approaching $400B….the debt is now north of GDP….and you argue “just eat more cake”…and don’t even pretend to tax people to pay for it….just put it on the national credit card…..and then…I guess….hope. Most of the time when something feels gravely irresponsible….it is….

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  81. Make news, Liz; you’re in party “leadership…” tell ‘conservatives’ the name, gender and race of the Capitol cop who shot and killed white woman and veteran, Ashli Babbitt.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  82. @61. ‘Three’

    And still an irrelevant number to loyal, die-hard Cubby fans decade after decade.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  83. Kevin, I’m not sure cheering on past assassinations is particularly tasteful.

    I am ashamed that no one has put up a statue to Dr Weiss. He killed a Stalin.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  84. Or maybe I’m misreading your words?

    You are. For one thing, Huey Long had far more power and was much clearer in his goals. I think that if we had a politician again who aspired to total power the same thing would be in order. No one finds shooting Hitler in 1928 to be ethically challenged.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  85. I looked at your Green New Deal list of horrors. It seems to me that all of them could be accomplished through normal legislation by democratic processes, whether you liked the result or not. Which require dictatorship?

    You could have a stairway to the moon approved by normal democratic processes. But her view of the necessity of the actions, and their unlikelihood in a democracy would require her to pick. I see no indication that she views giving in to the forces of ignorance palatable. “By any means necessary” is how our gal rolls.

    She reminds me of Robert Welch, on the far other side, who made no bones about his plans.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  86. The corporate interests outside of Wyoming who donate

    Well, mark me down as a corporate interest then.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  87. Donald Trump was and remains an existential threat to our nation.

    And a Reagan Creation.

    Hilarious.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)


  88. Kevin, while I agree with some of Trump’s tax cuts (specifically the cuts in corporate and capital gains rates), the rest provided slim benefit relative to the cost

    It cost me a $40,000 deduction, so I pretty much agree. Capping SALT, and only moderating it by lowering the TOP rate to compensate, left me holding a worthless state tax deduction in a big tax year.

    I think the GOP’s loss of all those Orange County seats might have been related to this.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  89. And a Reagan Creation.

    At least in some minds. I think the vote here is 197-1 against though.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  90. @89. Yes, to some others he’s the “great and Powerful Oz…”

    Hilarious:

    Was Reagan a Precursor to Trump? A New Documentary Says Yes

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/11/arts/television/the-reagans.html

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  91. Kevin, I’m glad to hear I was misunderstanding you, although I’m still confused. Am I understanding AOC is not on your list of OK assassinations because she doesn’t have enough power to merit it yet?

    I’m not sure how the Governor of Louisiana reached that threshold but AOC hasn’t. Was it because he had a good chance of becoming President? If she runs for President, then her assassination is OK?

    I’m trying to figure out what you meant earlier, but am still struggling. Also, surely you don’t put Huey Long or AOC in the same league as Hitler & Stalin. Most people have a VERY high bar for assassination being morally justified and you’ve named 2 of about 5 that most people would agree to in this century. The lack of millions of deaths on their hands is really what stands out to me…

    nate_w (25619c)

  92. “By any means necessary” is how our gal rolls.

    Hawt.

    Dave (1bb933)

  93. Our current debt service is approaching $400B….the debt is now north of GDP….and you argue “just eat more cake”…and don’t even pretend to tax people to pay for it….just put it on the national credit card…..and then…I guess….hope. Most of the time when something feels gravely irresponsible….it is….

    And something which can’t go on forever won’t.

    I’ve opposed taxes religiously since I was a teenager, but in view of recent history, I think taxation works as a brake on spending to a greater degree than borrowing.

    Somebody has to pay for taxation now, while borrowing postpones the pain to unknown victims in the indefinite future. And in the long run, we’re all dead.

    Of course it would be a much more effective brake if everyone had skin in the taxation game.

    Dave (1bb933)

  94. “I think taxation works as a brake on spending to a greater degree than borrowing”

    I think it needs to be addressed from both ends….but just whining about the other guy’s spending accomplishes nada. Everything needs to be on the table including military spending, social security spending, and how we do taxes. Too big of a tax increase and you kill growth too much. The problem is even starting this discussion. The current polarization has killed off all good faith…..there needs to be moderates who can operate without the base crucifying them.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  95. All I can say is thank God we’ve got Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer to uphold the rule of law and the institutional norms of our sacred democracy.

    Jerryskids (999ce8)

  96. God did not make Biden President. Donald Trump did.
    God did not make Nancy Palomino Speaker. Donald Trump did.
    God did not make Schumer Majority Leader. Donald Trump did.
    Thank you, Trump voters!

    nk (1d9030)

  97. It is not clear to me which approach is best for the country.

    1) Purge the Republican Party of Trumpism by not voting for any Republican candidate unless that person denounces Trump, and thus cede election after election to lefties, who will continue to create well-intended but misguided government programs that will be virtually impossible to abolish, and let in hordes of illegal immigrants who will be very difficult to deport, and who will eventually add to the constituency for wrongheaded policy.

    2) Humor (or at least ignore) a malignant narcissist (you know who) in an attempt to get Republican control of a least one chamber, so that there is some opposition to Biden’s bad proposals, and hope that the country is better able to weather Trump’s gaslighting and stoking of crazy people.

    I miss the good old days when it was just conservative versus liberal, with no MAGA, BLM, Proud Boys, and Antifa.

    norcal (01e272)

  98. @66. “Except for arguing against a point I did not make, yes.”

    Which point was that? My primary point was that you seem to consider the current potential of “…an economic dictatorship…” posed by the election of a single first-term House member who self-identifies as a Social Democrat in one of the most progressive/liberal House districts in the country, to represent an existential threat greater and more to be feared than that posed by the complete takeover of one of our two major political parties by someone demonstrably willing and arguably capable of breaking our constitutional republic.

    Did I get that right?

    My secondary point was that the fear you express has been common throughout history (including our own history around, as you later note, the time of the Great Depression and the New Deal), and is supported mostly by the emotional obsessiveness of populism. I’ll also note, given your follow-ups, that you seem to differ from the Trump mob who rampaged through the Capitol (threatening to hang the Vice-President and kill other members of Congress they could reach), only in a somewhat more limited preferred action (targeted assassination).

    But please, do let me know what point I argued against that you do not hold.

    Purple Martin (bce78a)

  99. Doctors can’t explain why this fruit can cut your Congressional majority by 10%.

    The GOP has zero chance of retaking Congress or the White House as long as Trump’s around. McCarthy and Stefanik keeping their phony-baloney jobs, sure.

    nk (1d9030)

  100. She is going to lose in 2022.

    Not if the Democrats don’t run a candidate, or maybe if their candidate keeps very quiet.

    The question is, will she run for president n 2024. She doesn’t want to 0 wants someone else to back.

    If she runs as a Repyblican, she’s nearly sure to lose to Trump. who will also have the rules rigged in his favor. (projecting from conditions now)

    If she runs third party, she might carry Utah. Maybe she can make Trump come in third.

    But she needs to say things that are not quite so trite.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  101. 87, DJT had been on spec since the early 90s, according to writer of this mid -1990s Dissent article…though I find his theory of a disconnect between Catholic and Jewish elite leadership and protestant base “rabble” within the greater Right troublesone.

    https://t.co/KZcRETPA8I?amp=1

    urbanleftbehind (a0d26d)

  102. She is going to lose in 2022.

    I think that was in reference to Cheney, and probably meant lose in the primary, not the general.

    norcal (01e272)

  103. 8. Paul Montagu (26e0d1) — 5/6/2021 @ 9:27 am

    How about pushing and passing a tax cut package that did little to stimulate an already stimulated economy and added $1.9 trillion to our debt. It further damaged the GOP’s damaged approach to fiscal responsibility.

    Actually that wasn’t Trump. Trump just went along with it. His only influence on it was to let it be known he wouldn’t approve several proposed revisions to tax law.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  104. 22. JF (e1156d) — 5/6/2021 @ 10:33 am

    nd all have stricter immigration policies than us

    And more deaths as a result.

    All humanitarian principles are going by the wayside — while they abolish the death penalty. And lean toward assisted suicide.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  105. @97 1) Purge the Republican Party of Trumpism by not voting for any Republican candidate unless that person denounces Trump, and thus cede election after election to lefties, who will continue to create well-intended but misguided government programs that will be virtually impossible to abolish, and let in hordes of illegal immigrants who will be very difficult to deport, and who will eventually add to the constituency for wrongheaded policy.

    2) Humor (or at least ignore) a malignant narcissist (you know who) in an attempt to get Republican control of a least one chamber, so that there is some opposition to Biden’s bad proposals, and hope that the country is better able to weather Trump’s gaslighting and stoking of crazy people.

    Norcal, I really think that there are no solidly good choices in how to get the conservative movement past Trumpism. I would say maybe a careful combination of the two you listed. I think a good litmus is find out if a GOP aspirant of elective office accepts the fact that Joe Biden duly won the 2020 election. And that they didn’t participate in trying to throw out the electors on January 6. If they didn’t in either or both, then we should cross out any possibility of voting for them. As this past election showed, the GOP underperformance in the suburbs proved to be costly. Eventually, the right will find out that they cannot win elections without Trump skeptical conservatives, many of them who live in suburbia. The sucky part is that Democrats could solidify strong majorities in Congress, and with a lefty President, enact some atrocious policies. But these Trumpists in Congress and the Trump base probably need some nasty electoral outcomes before they come to their senses(assuming they aren’t defeated). Just my 2 cents.

    HCI (92ea66)

  106. I’ve opposed taxes religiously since I was a teenager, but in view of recent history, I think taxation works as a brake on spending to a greater degree than borrowing.

    Me, too, Dave. I think we’ve gone through so many waves of tax cuts since GW Bush, I’m coming around to the idea that our top brackets are under-taxed. There’s a fundamental imbalance, with revenues at around 18% of GDP and spending at around 21% (and that’s before all the “one-time” stimulus spending), and that gap should be narrowed. It can’t all be done by cutting spending. There needs to be more revenue and serious entitlement reform.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  107. Actually that wasn’t Trump. Trump just went along with it.

    Uh, no, Sammy. Trump campaigned on a big tax cut and he pretty much got what he wanted. He signed the bill and he owns it.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  108. ‘Donald Trump was and remains an existential threat to our nation.’

    Pfft. He’s no more a ‘threat to our nation’ than W.C. Fields was to Mae West.

    Whereas the lil’Chickadee was the one to keep your eyes on– and listen to… very, very carefully:

    “Two and two is four and five will get you ten if you know how to work it.” – Flower Belle Lee [Mae West] ‘My Little Chickadee’ 1940

    Reaganomics. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  109. There’s a fundamental imbalance, with revenues at around 18% of GDP and spending at around 21% (and that’s before all the “one-time” stimulus spending), and that gap should be narrowed. It can’t all be done by cutting spending.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1) — 5/6/2021 @ 4:30 pm

    I hear ya, but consider this. If, every time there is a gap, it is closed by a combination of spending cuts AND tax hikes, then taxes will just go up and up and up over time.

    norcal (01e272)

  110. Norcal, I really think that there are no solidly good choices in how to get the conservative movement past Trumpism. I would say maybe a careful combination of the two you listed.

    HCI (92ea66) — 5/6/2021 @ 4:27 pm

    Yes. It is difficult to thread that needle. I think Nikki Haley and Mitch McConnell are trying to do that. I’m not going to come down hard on Nikki for not launching an all-out war against Trump. The electorate is just not there yet. She can either try to get along with Trump and have a shot at winning in 2024, with the result that she can accomplish a lot of good for the country, or she can channel Liz Cheney, lose, and watch as lefties create an ever-bigger government.

    It’s perfectly understandable to see red (no pun intended) over Trump, and forswear Republicans. But emotions don’t always lead to the best decisions.

    norcal (01e272)

  111. Three cheers for Liz Cheney. She is going to lose this vote.

    That’s why she’s not trying to round up votes.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  112. Stefanik emphasizes support for false election claims, Trump movement ahead of leadership vote

    Article contains the amusing tid-bits that Stefanik voted against the 2017 tax-cuts, and funding the border wall.

    But, when it pleases Him, the Great Pumpkin grants absolution to those who repent of their sins…

    Dave (1bb933)

  113. @111. No effort for at a “round-up” of votes from a Wyoming Cowgirl?! So much for her being a fightin’, battlin’ ‘conservative’ eh, Sammy.

    You can just picture Scalise and McCarthy doin’ their Robert Redford impressions now:

    “And you were all mouth!” – Sundance Kid [Robert Redford] ‘Butch Cassidy And The Sundance Kid’ 1969

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  114. Dave,

    Was Stefanik holding out for slabs for Watertown?

    urbanleftbehind (a0d26d)

  115. Nope, just the wrong kind of “all mouth”.

    urbanleftbehind (a0d26d)

  116. Trump likes them Slavic as well as slavish.

    BTW, did you know that the etymology of “slave” the condition of servitude is from “Slav” the ethnic group, because at some point during Roman history you couldn’t find a Slav who wasn’t a slave?

    nk (1d9030)

  117. @116
    actually it was the dirty greecers pretending to be romans

    Dave (1bb933)

  118. @72. Occasionally, what goes around eventually makes many come around — when they grow up:

    https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2012/09/moondoggle-the-forgotten-opposition-to-the-apollo-program/262254/

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  119. 37. Purple Martin (bce78a) — 5/6/2021 @ 11:10 am

    *referring to someone else here I think and not necessarily Liz Cheney)

    I am reminded of what Benjamin Franklin is purported to have said of John Adams:

    I am persuaded, however, that Mr. Adams meant well for his country, was always an honest man, often a wise one, but sometimes and in some things, absolutely out of his senses.

    I thought that couldn’t be an accurate quote because it looked like it was an evaluation of President Adams whole career (it’s in the past tense) and would have been made no earlier than the year 1800, and Benjamin Franklin died in 1790. John Adams was noted most before that mostly for having co-wrote the Declaration of Independence but would someone find general fault with his thinking?

    But it is very close to a real quote.

    Benjamin Franklin really said soemthing very close to that (or, rather, wrote that) in 1783.

    “I am persuaded however that he [John Adams] means well for his Country, is always an honest Man, often a Wise One, but sometimes and in some things, absolutely out of his Senses.”

    They were in Paris, along with John Jay, to negotiate a treaty of peace with Great Britain.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)


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