Patterico's Pontifications

4/28/2021

Another Day, Another Huge Spending Proposal

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



The Washington Post has the details.

The White House on Wednesday unveiled a $1.8 trillion spending and tax plan aimed at dramatically expanding access to education and safety-net programs for families, the latest effort by President Biden to try to turn some of his campaign promises into new policy.

A trillion here, a trillion there, and pretty soon you’re talking about real money. You have your $1.9 trillion for stimulus, your $2.3 trillion for infrastructure, and now your $1.8 trillion for goodies for the family (details in a moment). By my math, that’s a cool $6 trillion.

The national debt today is over $28 trillion.

So, what are we supposed to spend this money on?

Biden’s plan proposes a suite of domestic policies that would collectively represent a marked change in how Americans interact with the federal government.

The White House says its proposal would provide every American with two years of tuition-free community college; prekindergarten for all 3- and 4-year-olds; and paid family and medical leave for American workers. Among its sweeping agenda items, the plan also calls for devoting hundreds of billions of dollars to fighting child poverty and ensuring affordable child care nationwide.

To pay for these initiatives, White House officials are also proposing $1.5 trillion in tax hikes aimed primarily at increasing the amount paid by wealthy Americans and investors. The White House aims to raise money through a sizable increase in enforcement by the Internal Revenue Service, as well as approximately doubling the capital gains tax rate for those earning more than $1 million per year — a measure that would apply to a small fraction of Americans but is likely to face resistance on Capitol Hill.

Ivanka was a big fan of the paid family leave, so we at least have some continuity there.

The article adds: “The president also proposes subsidizing tuition for students from families earning less than $125,000 enrolled at historically Black institutions, tribal colleges and other minority-serving institutions for two years.” Regular readers know my fondness for allocating government benefits on the basis of race, so this is just lovely.

Biden’s giving a big speech tonight. I do not watch tripe like that, so you guys will have to let me know how it went.

139 Responses to “Another Day, Another Huge Spending Proposal”

  1. Budget deficits like this aren’t a problem until all of a sudden they are. I wish there were candidates to vote for who would attempt to do something about it.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  2. My father told me that there were two basic principles of good government:

    1. We are all in this together.
    2. There is no free lunch.

    He pointed out that Republicans never learned the first of these, and Democrats never learned the second.

    John B Boddie (55235a)

  3. Biden’s giving a big speech tonight. I do not watch tripe like that, so you guys will have to let me know how it went.

    Tripe? Sometimes they’re worth a listen; ‘a great new American enterprise’ may just be unveiled that invests in the country, seeds the future– and can change the world:

    https://www.jfklibrary.org/asset-viewer/archives/JFKWHA/1961/JFKWHA-032/JFKWHA-032

    We know how that one went; among the proposed investments produced the weather satellites, communications satellites and medical advances of today, computers that fit in your pocket instead of a room, a plethora of new industries, an endless assortment of inexpensive gadgetry– along with launching men to the moon.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  4. I don’t believe you have to be Black to enroll in a historically Black college, though perhaps someone can change my mind about that.

    People talk about investments as if it is something done only by billionaires in tech. Investment also includes providing education and supporting families so that all those people I hope will be supporting me in my old age are up to the task. As Time says, deficits aren’t a problem until they are. And currently they’re not. But of course if conservatives were really concerned with the deficit they could support raising taxes and fully fund the IRS as it attempts to collect the taxes that already exist. But they won’t. Because the Scary Deficit and The Burden on Our Grandchildren was always only a cover for not wanting to spend money on the undeserving poor.

    Victor (4959fb)

  5. It’s DOA anyway, there is no way Manchin and possibly one or two other Democrats will support it.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  6. the pork and tripe must be shocking to those who voted for him

    JF (e1156d)

  7. Budget deficits like this aren’t a problem until all of a sudden they are. I wish there were candidates to vote for who would attempt to do something about it.

    Time123 (daab2f) — 4/28/2021 @ 9:02 am

    Neither side cares anymore. Democrats. Republicans. Both spend and promise to either cut spending somewhere else (Republicans) or raise taxes and pay for it all (Democrats). Neither gets done.

    Luckily for us, the dollar is still the currency everyone in the world wants or demands to use, so we can keep this charade going. For how long, no one knows.

    Hoi Polloi (ade50d)

  8. @7. Ask the Brits;

    ‘The United Kingdom’s pound sterling was the primary reserve currency of much of the world in the 19th century and first half of the 20th century. However, by the end of the 20th century, the United States dollar had become the world’s dominant reserve currency.’ – source, wikibuddycanyouspareadime.uhoh

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  9. RIP Apollo 11 astronaut Michael Collins (90). In 1969, the loneliest man in the world.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  10. . . . the plan also calls for devoting hundreds of billions of dollars to fighting child poverty and ensuring affordable child care nationwide.

    No, really: this time we’re bound to win the War on Poverty.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  11. You have your $1.9 trillion for stimulus, your $2.3 trillion for infrastructure, and now your $1.8 trillion for goodies for the family (details in a moment). By my math, that’s a cool $6 trillion.

    Wasn’t the Biden Administration mulling over the idea of combining infrastructure and the social spending goodies into one large $4 trillion package, a la Paul Krugman or Bernard Sanders’ fondest dreams? Do you think they now believe that it was impossible to pass a bill that large, or do they think that it will be far easier to pass two smaller bills? I wonder if one of them (infrastructure perhaps) is being sacrificed in order to get the other one (social welfare goodies) through.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  12. According to the Post, Covid made him do it. Biden was all set to be this competent moderate uniter, but he came into office and — horrors — he saw what Covid had done and had to take the gloves off.

    The fact that he lucked into a 51-50 Senate was just a coincidence and really really not the reason he abandoned his campaign pledges.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  13. This is called capturing the treasury. He is going to BUY the midterms and Harris’s election. Then one day the whole thing comes crashing down, but he’ll be safely dead.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  14. @13 Kevin, from an actuarial standpoint that could be tomorrow.

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  15. And the GOP has no basis to complain because they proved themselves to be complete hypocrites on spending when the former guy was president. Fiscal conservatism died when he was elected.
    This is but one more reason why McCain was an important figure in the Senate.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  16. @3: Then JFK sunk the country’s fortunes in Vietnam, leading to a decade of fiscal instability and runaway inflation as the spending spree had to pass through the system. What Biden is doing will require yet another inflationary period to monetize the debt, with some other poor slob having to do the heavy lifting.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  17. I know that people are hoping that that equities will inflate, too, so they can avoid the worst of the coming inflation. That is not what happened in the 70’s — the Dow was flat from 1965 to 1982, within 100 points of 800 the whole time. It did not pick up until 1982, after inflation was taken out and shot by Volker.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  18. Paul,

    Yes, Trump was a fool and a scoundrel. That does not make the Democrats geniuses or honest.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  19. R.I.P. Michael Collins…

    author, astronaut and spacewalker, Gemini 10; CMP back-up and CAPCOM, Apollo 8; Command Module Pilot, Apollo 11, first lunar landing.

    Deeply saddened by this inevitable news.

    Collins was the heart and soul of the Apollo 11 crew; an engaging man with a wry wit and a skilled, prolific, descriptive writer.[‘Carrying The Fire’ is superb.] It was Collins who best connected with contemporary Americans on the perspective and meaning of Apollo 11– and Apollo 8. He often noted that 8 was about leaving; 11, about arriving– and held both achievements as equal milestones in human history.

    It was Collins as CAPCOM on Apollo 8 who famously radioed: “Apollo 8, you are go for TLI…” – clearing Frank Borman, Jim Lovell and Bill Anders to leave Earth on man’s first voyage out into the solar system. It was Mike who designed the Apollo 11 flight patch, too. It has no names on purpose and was based on an image of an eagle in an issue of National Geographic. And it was Collins who led the effort to construct the National Air And Space Museum [NASM] on the Washington Mall and became NASM’s first director. It is the most visited museum in America.

    Best memory; meeting Mike at a reception at the U.S. Embassy in London in October, 1969 [an encounter our family only recently discovered, 50 years later, that’s preserved on film in the National Archives] less than 90 days after the success of Apollo 11. He quipped, ‘we’re really not supposed to do this’ as he signed a photo for us; my response,’ Well, we really don’t want to get you in trouble over it.’ He flashed a great, grand grin, eyes twinkling and chuckled loudly. He was a very easy-going individual. The treasured picture still hangs in my den.

    This is truly a loss for the American family. Deepest condolences to the Collins family– and the NASA family as well. A great life, accomplishing great things, when America truly was great.

    “People have always gone where they have been able to go.” – Mike Collins

    “Go!” Mike.

    Ad Astra. Ad Astra…

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  20. According to the Post, Covid made him do it. Biden was all set to be this competent moderate uniter, but he came into office and — horrors — he saw what Covid had done and had to take the gloves off.

    Shades of his old boss, who wanted everyone to believe that he and his team had no idea of how badly the 2008 recession had hurt our finances, as if news of our financial situation hadn’t been abundant and well-disseminated. Of course, the saving grace is that Obama used the recession as an excuse to avoid jacking up taxes right away, whereas the new guy seems to be looking for every excuse to put the brakes on our economic rebound, ironically enough under the guise of goosing that very same rebound. It’s amazing how the Krugman economic agenda, assiduously ignored by the past five Presidential Administrations, is now at the center of this administration.

    And speaking of the Post, the Washington Free Beacon is having some fun pointing out how the WaPo editorial board has passed over “two qualified black women” in order to endorse a white male (Terry McAuliffe) for the governor’s office. They also remind us that it was McAuliffe who in his first stint in Richmond put together the tax break package that landed Amazon — the company which gives Jeff Bezos the money with which to bail out the WaPo — in Northern Virginia four years ago, a fact that goes unmentioned in their endorsement.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  21. The last President to actually work at the deficit was Clinton, with a like-minded GOP Congress under Gingrich, doing things like ending farm subsidies (which W and Hastert quickly restored).

    But the Democrats have utterly and completely repudiated the Clintons, and their spending plans make Trump’s excesses look modest.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  22. @16. Tripe, K. You really should listen to all 45 minutes of the address; that was LBJ and The Big Dick, Kevin. And you can’t blame any of them for turning America from a creditor to a debtor nation, either:

    Reaganomics, Kevin.

    Step away from the bong.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  23. DCSCA,

    Yes, sad indeed. Good that you could meet this great man. I have some hope of meeting Aldrin, but even that is rapidly diminishing.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  24. @23. Buzz is much more easily accessible, Kevin, but he has moved to Florida near KSC. You can check his website to see where he’ll be but obviously given his age he has slowed down some. Collins was the perfect personality balance between Aldrin and Armstrong, too. The onboard audio tapes not broadcast [esoteric stuff to space enthusiasts now available in archives online] from Apollo 11 really reveal it, too. He was a good egg.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  25. We have government funded indoctrination from K-12. That’s 13 years of control. They want 4 more paid for at the taxpayers expense. Why am I not surprised.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  26. No worries, Mexico will pay for it.

    Davethulhu (6ba00b)

  27. DCSCA,

    It was JFK that ramped up Vietnam although LBJ went big time). Nixon tried to end it and did so eventually. Nations don’t turn on a dime; Obama tried to get out of Afghanistan and we are STILL there.

    LBJ ran a guns AND butter administration. A huge war and huge social spending. He basically squandered the post-WW2 fortune. IF you look at the Dow, it was 800 when LBJ sent 500,000 troops to Vietnam, and it was still 800 when inflation was killed in 1982.

    The next 10 years, under Reagan-Bush, the DOW quadrupled, and tripled again the 10 years after that, al with low inflation.

    I know you have this hobbyhorse named “Reagan” but you really need to put away childish toys and get some new ones.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  28. You can check his website to see where he’ll be but obviously given his age he has slowed down some

    Yeah, but I have an in. We belong to the same club.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  29. @7. Ask the Brits;
    DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 4/28/2021 @ 9:40 am

    Brits made a mistake and let the United States win WWII and assert its dominance.

    Hoi Polloi (ade50d)

  30. No worries, Mexico will pay for it.

    I don’t think even the Trumpies believed that. Hard to say, though.

    Of course, the Left thinks that the homeless will be back in the workforce if only they get a helping hand.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  31. 30. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/28/2021 @ 11:51 am

    , the Left thinks that the homeless will be back in the workforce if only they get a helping hand.

    No, but they think they won;t be defecating in the streets of San Francisco and won’t be creating other problems is they are simply given a private place to stay. (which may work for 75% of them)

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  32. @29. The decline and evaporation of the Empire is whut-dunn-it.

    History seldom repeats but often rhymes.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  33. @28. AARP. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  34. @27. Listen to the whole JFK speech- he lays it out well- the moon commitment came at the end; LBJ and Nixon own Vietnam– and it was paid for; Reaganomics Wreckage was on the cuff; turned the U.S. from a creditor to debtor nation. The fatal flaw of the affable Reagan and his more evil, Coolidge minded-minions, was to try to recreate a booming America of the 1960s [when it was the lone global colossus, sans strong competition] in the 1980s and ended up destroying the middle class instead. It was false prosperity on Uncle Sam’s credit card; damage we continue to dodge, bury –or simply live with. You have any Gulf War[s] bonds?? ope.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  35. ^Nope.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  36. Nixon tried to end it and did so eventually.

    Kevin, half the American dead were killed on The Big Dick’s Watch. And he had the Pentagon Papers in hand that told him it was unwinnable when he was inaugurated. There isn’t a hold deep enough for that traitorous, murderous bastard.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  37. Nobody is doing any “due diligence” on these “investments”

    Instead, markets are being treated as inefficient except when the government is spending the money.

    Biden is so determined to spend more money than necessary to achieve a goal that he sent someone to assure the autoworkers union that electric cars, which are simpler mechanically – the extra cost is because of the raw materials – and, even in the absence of “robots,” would require only two thirds the number of workers per car, won’t hurt the union.

    And it’s a real problem. Because of unfunded pensions the size of the workforce can’t really shrink. Although most of that has already been absorbed.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/26/with-biden-as-an-ally-uaw-union-prepares-to-battle-for-ev-jobs.html

    Electric vehicles, which Biden strongly supports, could usher in a new era of American manufacturing jobs for the UAW. But they also hurt the labor movement and undermine Biden’s goal of creating 1 million new jobs in the U.S. auto industry.

    The vehicles require far fewer parts than those with internal combustion engines, which means potentially fewer factory assembly jobs. A lot of the parts for EVs are made outside the U.S. as well as the vehicle assembly — where workers are paid far lower wages. Many emerging EV start-ups, including industry leader Tesla, also have not been openly supportive of their employees organizing.

    That’s led the UAW to push for a “more cautious approach” regarding EVs, while also planning to utilize its “seat at the table” with Biden in other ways such as organizing, according to UAW President Rory Gamble.,,,

    ,,, 2018 study by the union found that mass adoption of EVs could cost the UAW 35,000 jobs, however Gamble said the union believes that number could be less now.

    The UAW’s total membership of 397,000 has grown during the last decade as it diversified its membership outside of automotive to areas such as higher education and gaming. But it remains far below its peak of 1.5 million in the late 1970s….

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  38. The Vietnam War was winnable and was nearly won in December 1972.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  39. 21. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/28/2021 @ 10:40 am

    The last President to actually work at the deficit was Clinton, with a like-minded GOP Congress under Gingrich, doing things like ending farm subsidies (which W and Hastert quickly restored).

    All that Clintn did (while attempting to make tit look like his 1993 budget did it) was arrange behind the scenes for the Federal Reserve Board to keep interest rates low, which resulted in economic growth.

    Toward the end of his term, Clinton was in denial, or lying, about the disappearing deficit, because he didn’t want Congress not to pass emergency continuing resolutions and so on, inn which unpopular provisions could be sneaked in.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  40. I think we are at a point where there is more benefit to paying for at least some beyond HS education than there will be cost to not doing so later. I think we can all look at the economic trends and figure out that there will be fewer and fewer jobs immediately accessible to people with no more than a HS education, so do we want to facilitate that education, or do we want to pay for all the unemployed people? I would rather teach them to fish than spend the rest of my working career giving people fish. However, that doesn’t mean that paying for any/all post HS education would be created equal and just throwing money at the problem isn’t going to be the most effective way to fix it. Really we probably should be doing a full scale, nation wide, redesign of the pre-k through 14 system in order to have an education system that works for now and later, instead of one based on the needs of the 19th and early 20th C.

    Nic (896fdf)

  41. @38. Read the Pentagon Papers. It was not. LBJ knew it; so did Robert McNamara. And Nixon, too. A total waste of lives and resources. But great for Dow Chemical, pretty much all oil companies selling aviation fuel to the government– and Bell Aircraft.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  42. The Pentagon always thinks it is going to lose wars.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  43. The Pentagon always thinks it is going to lose wars.

    Since 1945, they have, or not achieved victory.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  44. Because the Scary Deficit and The Burden on Our Grandchildren was always only a cover for not wanting to spend money on the undeserving poor.

    I don’t think that’s entirely true. There are number crunchers and other level-headed people who warn that eventually the bill comes due, and point to historical cases of runaway inflation and regime collapse from debt that can never be paid. Some people have been warning that entitlements in their present form are unsustainable.

    Then came Donald Trump and the boosters who claimed that such concerns were a product of hard-heatedness, whereas Trump was distinguished by “compassion” (yes, that was actually said), and would never cruelly wonder if maybe entitlements needed to be restructured for the sake of the next generation.

    He did claim that he could pay down the debt in eight years by negotiating better trade deals, but everyone knew that was so insane he couldn’t possibly be serious, and indeed Trump soon afterward claimed he never said what he was on tape saying (though TBH he said he had never claimed he would do it in ten years).

    The basic position of the Trumpers was that everything about the pre-Trump GOP was corrupt. Therefore even the appearance of concern about the national debt had to be wrong — for the time being, anyway.

    Ardent Trumpers have said we need a national health care program just like Canada, and that the government should subsidize the purchase of a family home as some European countries do, and have claimed that “raising wages” was a great Trump plan for the working class while Dems catered to the Coastal Elites. So while the Trumper rank and file shout “Freedom not Socialism,” Trumpist “intellectuals” have promoted a socialism lite with a nativist-traditionalist-authoritarian flavor. Kinda like national socialism, come to think of it.

    But if Dems promote similar policies without the nativist-traditionalist-authoritarian tinge, then debt is a bad thing again.

    Radegunda (4d1342)

  45. * hard-heartedness

    Radegunda (4d1342)

  46. ‘Ardent Trumpers have said we need a national health care program just like Canada, and that the government should subsidize the purchase of a family home as some European countries do, and have claimed that “raising wages” was a great Trump plan for the working class while Dems catered to the Coastal Elites. So while the Trumper rank and file shout “Freedom not Socialism,” Trumpist “intellectuals” have promoted a socialism lite with a nativist-traditionalist-authoritarian flavor. Kinda like national socialism, come to think of it.’

    Though ‘Cancun Cruz’ originated in Canada, a lot of good things originated in Europe; ever notice what language you write posts in and speak when ordering a pizza or a hamburger?

    “Oops!” – Rick Perry, 2011

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  47. I think we are at a point where there is more benefit to paying for at least some beyond HS education than there will be cost to not doing so later.

    Rather than just paying for two years of community college, why not set aside the money and make it available as a refund to the student once they complete the required coursework for an associate’s degree or a transfer to a four-year institution? For example, it seems like the standard community college resident fee these days in California is $46 per unit, and the expectation is that the student will take 60 units over two years to either receive the associate’s degree or to have the credits to transfer and continue for a bachelor’s degree. So my idea is that the student would register for class, pay the fees (they would continue to be eligible for needs-based financial aid), and conduct their studies.

    Under my plan, Student X ends up getting an associate’s degree in welding after two years. He would then be refunded his tuition costs (60 units @ $46 per = $2,760) in one check, which he could use to open his own business or purchase his own welding equipment or do a variety of things. Student Y, on the other hand, spends four semesters at the community college and takes sixteen courses that she can transfer to a Cal State University. These account for 64 total units for which she paid $2,944, so she would then be refunded that sum which she could use to help pay tuition at her next school. But the major point of this idea is that only the students who do the right thing and see their studies through would get their refunds. That student who drops out to try his luck as an actor or who decides that college life just isn’t worth it will not receive any refund.

    Naturally the feds would have to put some kind of maximum value on what they are willing to reimburse, lest some states jack their rates up to hundreds of dollars per unit with the expectation that Uncle Sucker will foot the bill.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  48. JVW (ee64e4) — 4/28/2021 @ 2:58 pm

    Under my plan, Student X ends up getting an associate’s degree in welding after two years. He would then be refunded his tuition costs (60 units @ $46 per = $2,760) in one check, which he could use to open his own business or purchase his own welding equipment or do a variety of things.

    It’s the people who drop out who need the refund. But maybe the refund should be given by the college. It will take awhile for educational institutions to get used to this new system.

    But you can get 60 credits (in academic subjects) through tests. Most well known is CLEP tests.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  49. The Pentagon always thinks it is going to lose wars.

    44. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 4/28/2021 @ 1:38 pm

    Since 1945, they have, or not achieved victory.

    No, mostly the United States lost the peace.

    Wars that were not won were situations with sanctuaries. For Korea it was Red China. For Vietnam it was North Vietnam (after 1966, China would not have intervened)

    For Iraq in 2003, it was Syria and Iran and maybe Saudi Arabia; for Afghanistan it was Pakistan. In 1991, Saddam Hussein could have been completely defeated but it was not a war aim of GHWB – he was treated like a comic book villain – that is, and left a bit diminished, so that he could be brought back for more adventures in furure issues.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  50. President Eisenhower ended the Korean War with an Armistice based on the status quo – something North Korea has been uncomfortable with for nearly 68 years and counting.

    It was not generally known that the way he did was with what was later called brinksmanship in other contexts – he threatened to drop nuckear waste along the front.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  51. It could actually be good to drop out of the wrong college and then drop back in to one that sarted from a lower level of knowledge.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  52. The British Empire in the 19th century never tolerated sanctuaries, and that was how, “in a fit of absent-mindedness” it acquired an empire.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  53. That does not make the Democrats geniuses or honest.

    My silence on Biden’s spending does not connote agreement, Kevin. Biden is showing his tax-and-spend ways, in spades. Some degree of stimulus is okay, but he’s passed one massive spending bill and he’s got two more in the hopper. It’s out of control.
    FTR, I gave money to the Concord Coalition, that quaint little organization on fiscal responsibility founded by Rudman and Tsongas back in the early 1990s. Fiscal conservatism is as dead as Tsongas.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  54. ‘Biden is showing his tax-and-spend ways, in spades.’

    What did you expect: he’s a racist:

    “If you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black,” – President Plagiarist, 5/22/2020

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  55. @JVW@48 Rather than just paying for two years of community college, why not set aside the money and make it available as a refund to the student once they complete the required coursework for an associate’s degree or a transfer to a four-year institution?

    Mostly because if someone is working a low wage job and trying pay rent, coming up with an extra $1.300 a year can be prohibitive. There’s also the factor that if someone is working full time, they may need to attend college part time. It’s also possible that some certifications wouldn’t require a full AA. And, even currently, if you pick the right California community college, you can get specific BAs from some of them (which I think is a great option for people who can’t or don’t want to go to a traditional college but are interested in one of those specific fields).

    Nic (896fdf)

  56. “Errare humanum est, sed perseverare diabolicum.” — Seneca

    To err is human, but to persist in the error is diabolical. I was going to post it on the Giuliani thread, but it’s much more on point on this one. If there ever was a justification for death panels in the eyes of Heaven and Earth, it’s making social policy buying votes with our kids’ credit cards.

    nk (1d9030)

  57. Mostly because if someone is working a low wage job and trying pay rent, coming up with an extra $1.300 a year can be prohibitive.

    That is why under my plan they would still be eligible for financial aid.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  58. There’s also the factor that if someone is working full time, they may need to attend college part time.

    Somehow generations and generations of Americans figured out how to manage this trick, and they didn’t even get free tuition always. I’m sure today’s youth learn how to make it work, unless we indulge them and baby them by pretending it’s an impossible task.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  59. To err is human, but to persist in the error is diabolical.

    Reaganomics.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  60. Two broads behind him- is this what we can called the Biden B!tch Session?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  61. Once a senator; always a senator.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  62. OMG, Kamala is doing the ‘Hillary Nod.’

    Must be a pants suit thing.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  63. Memo to President Plagiarist:

    DARPA, originally known as the Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA), is an agency created on February 7, 1958 by President Dwight D. Eisenhower in response to the Soviet launching of Sputnik 1 in 1957.

    Eisenhower was a Republican, Joe.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  64. @JVW@59 Part of the problem is that they didn’t manage.

    I’m not against providing a financial aid/reimbursement system, but I think it needs to be flexible to fit in with the realities that currently exist and it needs to be future looking instead of past looking.

    However, no one in power is currently suggesting a financial aid/reimbursement system. Instead we have the dems who want to pay for community college and the reps who are pretending that nothing needs to be done and that the current system isn’t going to put us in a downward spiral if nothing changes. Of the two options on offer, I have to say that the dem offer is more future proofing than the lack of any plan from the R side.

    Nic (896fdf)

  65. So far, he’s outsourced big projects to Kamala and to his wife.

    You plan on doing anything yourself, besides waking up, Joe?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  66. THe military would label this speech a ‘Drone Strike.’

    President Plagiarist is an idiot.

    God help us.

    https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/092515/4-reasons-why-delaware-considered-tax-shelter.asp

    ‘The taxes in Delaware are some of the lowest in the country. Property taxes in Delaware are the fourth lowest in the nation. Also, Delaware has no state sales tax. The state has a progressive income tax. The income tax rate ranges between 0 percent and 6.6 percent. The city of Wilmington has its own income tax.’ – https://www.upcounsel.com/delaware-tax

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  67. No, but they think they won;t be defecating in the streets of San Francisco and won’t be creating other problems is they are simply given a private place to stay. (which may work for 75% of them)

    L.A. is spending north of $400,000 per unit for the homeless, which is more expensive than a house in many parts of the country.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  68. Kevin, half the American dead were killed on The Big Dick’s Watch.

    They were sent over there to dig their graves on LBJ’s watch. That they fell in and died on Dick’s watch does not absolve LBJ.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  69. However, no one in power is currently suggesting a financial aid/reimbursement system. Instead we have the dems who want to pay for community college and the reps who are pretending that nothing needs to be done and that the current system isn’t going to put us in a downward spiral if nothing changes.

    The government guarantees everyone 13 years of free schooling. I object to the fact that Democrats are trying to cover for the failures of the system they have basically designed and put into place, defending the wreckage every step of the way by constantly claiming that the system is “underfunded.” So now their big idea is that everyone go to community college for two years on the taxpayer dime to learn all of the things that they failed to learn in high school (the two largest courses at California community colleges are remedial English and first-year algebra). I have no doubt that two free years will soon become three free years, then it will essentially be spend as much time as you wish chasing your associate’s degree; we’ll keep the funds coming. That’s absolutely the way to wreck the community college system. But hey, a bunch of educrats who overwhelming vote Democrat get their jobs protected this way, don’t they?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  70. Since 1945, they have, or not achieved victory.

    Well, they won some small ones (e.g. Panama), and South Korea has done OK. They won twice in Iraq, only to have the win thrown away. Afghanistan was a loss though, I have to give you that. A nice big nuke on 9/12 might have left a clearer impression.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  71. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 4/28/2021 @ 1:19 pm

    And there you have it. DCSCA is an unrecovered naive cynic.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  72. More like 35 to 40% not “half”-
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Vietnam_War_deaths.png

    urbanleftbehind (27f84e)

  73. @69. All the Big Dick had to do was declare victory on January 21, 1969, and leave. But then, he’d already committed treason – and LBJ has the goods on him. Defending Nixon w/t Pentagon Papers in hand is pathetic, Kevin. Instead, he let it become his war.

    @72. Facts are stubborn things, Kevin. A certain familiar oil company made a fortune refining light sweet crude pumped out of Libya then refined into aviation fuel nd sold to Uncle Sam to wage war in SE Asia.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  74. Cash in Gulf War Bonds lately?

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  75. @JVW@70 When all the other developed nations are sending their kids to college for free or almost free it puts our kids and us at a disadvantage if we don’t do something. Ideological purity will be of little comfort when we are being out-competed by other nations. And admiring the problem and blaming people you don’t like won’t solve the problem.

    The republican party has ceded problem solving to the Dems, so it’s easy for them to point and laugh about how something didn’t work in the most ideal way, but that’s just a bankruptcy of ideas. The last national Republican who had serious thoughts on education was GWB in the early 2000s and I don’t know who the last one was before him. I don’t think his solution was great, but the ideal wasn’t terrible and at least he tried. Right now the best idea the Rs have is to offer vouchers and hope that someone else solves the problem and that isn’t going to work.

    I would love to see serious Republican ideas about how to solve basically any of the major societal problems that currently exist, even at the state level, but there aren’t any, so what I have to choose from is do nothing, or see if the Dem plan might work. Sometimes I choose do nothing because I think the Dem program will make the issue worse, but in this case? No. We already know that doing nothing isn’t working and paying for at least some college might.

    Nic (896fdf)

  76. When all the other developed nations are sending their kids to college for free or almost free it puts our kids and us at a disadvantage if we don’t do something.

    But they really aren’t. Nations like Germany who have a vaunted “free college” system send far fewer students through the higher education system than we do. The U.S. has the distinction of leading the world in the number of students who attend college without ever receiving a degree. Sometimes it is misfortune — a student drops out to take care of an ailing family member or because they are forced to go to work to earn money — sometimes the student discovers that he or she isn’t emotionally mature enough for college life, but sometimes it is the simple fact that the student was unprepared for college and ought not to have wasted his time or our money trying to attend. Everything the Democrats plan to do only makes that situation worse. It’s bad enough the take unprepared students and ship them off to campus to fail (after their tuition check clears, of course), but now we’re going to stick the taxpayer with the tab. No thanks.

    So that’s why I would argue that instead of sending everybody to college knowing that probably only half of them will amount to anything, the government should only be granting tuition reimbursements to those who have the discipline and academic acuity to earn a degree or qualify for a transfer. But that prevents the education blob from hiring more professors and administrators, which is obviously a huge part of what the Democrats truly mean to accomplish: create more jobs for their voting base, even if the jobs are largely unproductive.

    I would love to see serious Republican ideas about how to solve basically any of the major societal problems that currently exist, even at the state level, but there aren’t any, so what I have to choose from is do nothing, or see if the Dem plan might work.

    Maybe, just maybe Nic, you should stop expecting government to sprinkle its magic fairy dust and solve all of our problems. I know that you will say that my attitude is only going to drive away young voters who are looking for solutions, and perhaps you are right, but I’ll look forward to talking to those same young voters 20 years from now when they seen firsthand the limits of what big government can accomplish.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  77. @JVW@77 I wouldn’t say your attitude will drive away young voters, because that’s not the problem. The problem is that on a number of these issues we have left it to chance or God or the universe or the invisible hand of the market or anything else that means “we’ve done nothing about it” and the problems have gotten worse or stayed stagnant while other nations have solved them. I don’t care if “the education blob” hires more profs or not. What I care about is whether or not we live in the 21st century with 21 century industry and economics and not the 19th century with 19 century industry and economics. I will, God willing, be alive and kicking in 20 years, 30 years, and maybe 40 or 50 years and I’d rather be living those years here, in this functioning country with a functioning economy, than somewhere else in their functioning country with a functioning economy because ours stopped doing that.

    Maybe I already spent several decades not expecting the government to sprinkle anything and it hasn’t worked. Maybe I’ve looked around and noticed that the countries that don’t have governments that bother to solve some problems are the “s-hole” countries in the world. Maybe I noticed that Biden’s government plan to get the vaccine to the people was a helluvalot better than Trump’s plan to let someone else figure it out. Maybe I don’t need the government to “solve all our problems” but they sure as heck should be solving some of them because that’s their job.

    Nic (896fdf)

  78. I don’t care if “the education blob” hires more profs or not. What I care about is whether or not we live in the 21st century with 21 century industry and economics and not the 19th century with 19 century industry and economics.

    I’m just waiting for the day when the Democrats don’t come up with a plan for “bringing us into the 21st Century” or “maintaining our competitive edge” that doesn’t somehow involve creating loads more of government employees and expanding their power to regulate our lives. Yeah, I’m a cynic, but it’s hard not to see their true aim as benefiting their most loyal party supporters rather than the country as a whole.

    And I’m not sure which nations you see as the great problem solvers, Nic. Is it China, which has mixed in Soviet-style authoritarianism with semi-free markets and crony capitalism? Is it Canada, a nation one-ninth our size with only about 83% of our GDP per capita? Is it Germany, riven by divisions regarding refugee policy and suffering from some of the highest energy prices in the world, thanks in large part to a Government-sponsored green energy plan beset by problems? Which country is it where the government is working harmoniously to enact far-sighted policy designed to make things better in the long run while still respecting the rights of the citizenry?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  79. Biden’s plan to “get the vaccine to people” was Trump’s plan. And the same crap states run by leftists botched it.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  80. No government solves every problem but most of N and W Europe seem to solve some of them. Canada too. Yes, there are problems still, but perfection is a preoccupation of the wokey-woke crowd. My observation is that European infrastructure SUCKED in the 80s and is much better than the US’s infrastructure now. This isn’t some fly by night I read an article thing either, this is actual experience. We’ve gotten worse and they’ve gotten better.

    I have sympathy for the idea of less and less intrusive government, but for all the vaunted rhetoric of people needing to take personal responsibility, the people spouting it don’t even take it. And if they won’t, why should anyone else. A system that depends on personal responsibility depends on Bob being willing to put in his money for the local road and he had chosen not to. It depends on Sally not dropping her GD cigarettes all over the park. It depends on Mark wearing his mask and Jennifer keeping her kids from doing graffiti (or allowing them to get into trouble when they get caught). And Ted not cheating on his taxes, and Maria helping her kids do their homework and Charles not running from his child-support. People don’t want to be personally responsible, they want other people to be personally responsible.

    And as I said, I’d love an actual choice of whose plan is better, but if only one party has a plan and the other’s plan is to do nothing, then I only have one choice if I think something needs to be done. If we need water and the Dems offer a bucket built by 10 people on a committee that leaks half the water out, it’s still better than “oh, you should just keep carrying water in your cupped hands”.

    @NJRob@80 I observe that Biden has gotten more vaccine to more people in a shorter amount of time than anyone thought he could. I observe that Trump didn’t.

    Nic (896fdf)

  81. https://www.dailywire.com/news/rockwood-schools-fake-curriculum-parents-indoctrination

    Hey Nic,

    this is a state run school district that proposes lying to the parents about their indoctrination agenda, but to carry on with the racist anti-white propaganda.

    Seems this isn’t just going on in private schools.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  82. I observe Trump got a vaccine created and approved in a shorter time than anyone thought he could. He also said it would be available to all by April which he was called a liar and laughed at for. Yet here we are.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  83. @NJRob@82 I love that you found one non-supervisory idiot functionary who was immediately shut down by the district admin who then fell all over themselves in letting everyone know she’s a non-supervisory idiot who wrote a dumb and wrong email that no one else agrees with or plans to follow and think it’s a proof of nationwide conspiracy.

    @83 And I give Trump credit for encouraging a swift vaccine creation, but he dropped the ball on distribution and Biden didn’t (and neither did the “crap states run by leftists”

    Nic (896fdf)

  84. I love how you move goalposts and dismiss a district official deliberately lying to the public while the admin engages in a coverup.

    Then you follow it up with an unproven statement about distribution that fits your agenda. Evidence would be welcome.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  85. I’m impressed with Trump and his handling of the pandemic almost as much as I’m impressed with arsonists who start fires and then call the fire department and tell them to hurry.

    nk (1d9030)

  86. @85 You clearly did not even bother to read the article you linked. The Fallert, who sent the email, is a relatively low level district person who doesn’t have the authority to tell teachers what to do. She emailed teachers, not the public, and no one took her bad suggestions. Nobody lied to the public and the admin didn’t engage in a cover-up, they immediately offered to make things even more transparent.

    Here, have some evidence: Trump committed to 20 million vaccinations by Dec 31 2020. He only did 3 million.

    “In the month of December, between the two vaccines — the Pfizer and the Moderna vaccine — we expect to have immunized 20 million of our American people,” Moncef Slaoui said on Dec. 15.

    only about 2.1 million had been administered (Dec 29, CNBC)

    Nic (896fdf)

  87. Nic, he often doesn’t seem to read more then the headline of the articles he links. When you point out that facts inconvenient to his premise are contained in the link; in this case that the dumb idea was the brain fart of a language coordinator and promptly disavowed by the assistant superintendent he just starts making stuff up.

    Time123 (53ef45)

  88. JVW, I think there are 2 large problems with education today

    1. Low performance by some demographics in public schools. I don’t think this is a school problem. I think this is a society problem. How do you teach a kid that doesn’t get enough to eat and doesn’t get enough rest because their home life is terrible? We look at educational outcomes and direct funds to schools because that’s where we measure the problem. But in a lot of cases that’s not where the problem manifests.

    Story time: A good friend of mine got married right out of college to a great girl who wanted to be a teacher. She got a job near where we grew up teaching elementary school at a poorer rural district. She was thrilled. Her first year he, I, and some of our friends helped her set up her room. Hung decorations, painted cool stuff on the wall, got used furniture for a reading area. It was rough. These were young kids with good hearts but there were a lot of challenges someone like her from a middle/upper middle class background didn’t expect.
    By Christmas of the first year she’d turned the reading corner into a nap corner. Apparently several of her students didn’t reliably have a safe place to sleep at night and she’d figured out that letting them get a long nap allowed them to learn something in the second half of the day instead of nothing all year long.
    She quit after 3 years. She couldn’t take how many of the kid’s lives were being wrecked by parents who lacked any motivation and/or had serious substance abuse problems. Plus she was being told by the state that her school, and she, had failed because not enough of her 30 students were at grade level. She couldn’t figure out how to take a kid whose parents paid no attention to school, were too disinterested to read to them and to hung over to get them ready for school up to grade level.

    2. You need to spend 50K+ to get a degree that’s the entry level requirement for so many white collar jobs.

    Time123 (53ef45)

  89. @83, Rob, When you’re right, You’re right, Trump’s administration did a good job getting the vaccine ready and approved quickly. He should get credit for that.

    People probably didn’t believe him because there were so many examples of Trump making statements based on magical thinking, lack of basic understanding, and a desire to downplay the issue. If he hadn’t touted Hydroxychloroquine, mused we should inject disinfectants or use bright light as a cure and regularly downplayed the issue people might have had more faith in promises about the vaccine. I think this is a good example of where his lack of character hurt him. His history of beclowning his supporters may have discouraged the drug companies from getting too close to him publicly as well.

    Time123 (53ef45)

  90. Pfizer and Moderna did a good job getting the vaccine ready and approved quickly. Trump hid in his bunker.

    Where Trump stuck his nose in, helping his cronies at Emergent BioSolutions get the contract for the active ingredient for the J&J vaccine, we had 1) delay in testing, approval and distribution (months? after Pfizer and Moderna), 2) 15 million doses spoiled, and 3) blood clots in women. (And that’s just the tip of the iceberg the #FakeNewsMedia is showing us because they don’t want to inflame “vaccine skepticism” even if it does hurt the orange loser.)

    nk (1d9030)

  91. 56. Nic (896fdf) — 4/28/2021 @ 5:10 pm

    Mostly because if someone is working a low wage job and trying pay rent, coming up with an extra $1.300 a year can be prohibitive.

    Many don’t have to. They get a student loan. Moreover, they can borrow more than tuition and books and use the money to pay for some living expenses, what I call thew student loan kickback. The idea behind making community college free is that a student shouldn’t graduate with debt. Students can also get other jobs, like a nursing student getting a job as part time live in caretaker.

    There’s also the factor that if someone is working full time, they may need to attend college part time.

    And student aid is often conditioned on being a full time student. That may cause some students to fail, by taking on too much. I don’t think Biden’s plan calls for much reforming of programs – there are no lobbyists working for that.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  92. 66. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 4/28/2021 @ 6:39 pm

    So far, he’s outsourced big projects to Kamala and to his wife.

    What he outsources that way, are things that are not going to happen.

    It’s a way to avoid answering the question:

    “How are you going to do it? How is this going to happen?

    He’s passing the buck.

    What will surely happen is that some people are going to get jobs. High paying jobs. In six figures.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  93. JVW (ee64e4) — 4/28/2021 @ 7:06 pm

    The government guarantees everyone 13 years of free schooling.

    Joe Biden wants to add four more years to that – two years at the beginning and two years at the end. But I think he’s counting kindergarten twice, or, if he wants two years of pre-K (what used to be known as nursery school) he maybe just forgot about it.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/29/us/politics/joe-biden-speech-transcript.html

    …This nation made 12 years of public education universal in the last century. It made us the best-educated, best-prepared nation in the world. It’s, I believe, the overwhelming reason that propelled us to where we got in the 20th century… Twelve years is no longer enough today, to compete with the rest of the world in the 21st century. That’s why my American Families Plan guarantees four additional years of public education for every person in America, starting as early as we can.

    Yup. He forgot to count kindergarten now exists (it’s not mandatory, though, in most places.)

    He’s actually proposing 15 years of education, because the two years he proposes to add come before kindergarten.

    The great universities in this country have conducted studies over the last 10 years. It shows that adding two years of universal, high-quality preschool for every 3-year-old and 4-year-old, no matter what background they come from, puts them in the position of being able to compete all the way through 12 years and increases exponentially their prospect of graduating and going on beyond graduation.

    That’s children whose parents specially selected that. To use thse studies is a fallacy – the same fallacy that “prove” going to Harvard raises educational level.

    Head Start, for which not everyone who eligible gets a chance to participate, has been studied. There is no lasting benefit compared with students not enrolled.

    If they go to slow-teach schools later, everything gained over their peers will be lost. But you think he or the Democrats or the teachers’ unions are interested in what works? They’re interested in jobs, jobs, jobs.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  94. When all the other developed nations are sending their kids to college for free or almost free it puts our kids and us at a disadvantage if we don’t do something.

    Finland does a better job of elementary and secondary education with two fewer years of school. Standard is from ages 7 to 16. (they pay teachers more, though and give them good training. I am not sure what they do.

    Let’s eliminate say, the 5th or 6th grade, and the 11th grade. There’s far too much redundancy – but even the redundancy is not enough, after decades of non or limited teaching – for children to learn what they should.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  95. I observe Trump got a vaccine created and approved in a shorter time than anyone thought he could. He also said it would be available to all by April which he was called a liar and laughed at for. Yet here we are.

    Rob, the problem was all of Trump’s lies about the virus and the vaccine, like when he said in March 2020 that we’d have a vaccine in “a matter of months”. The experts, like Fauci, said we’d be fortunate to have a vaccine by the end of the year, and he was right.
    Trump lied about Fauci, asserting that he “said it’s probably never going to happen. I mean, Fauci was saying three years, four years, five years—a lot of people said 12 years.”
    Trump also claimed that the vaccine would be available in October 2020, conveniently prior to election day, and then he dishonestly blamed the drug companies and his FDA for suppressing approval until after the election, as if there was some sort of conspiracy against him. He also said in February 2020 that it would go away in April, soon as the weather warms up. One could go on.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1)

  96. I made an error at 94:

    He’s actually proposing 15 years of education, because the two years he proposes to add come before kindergarten.

    17 years minimum, five years of that paid for by the federal government. (or maybe shared with the states, like Medicaid)

    2 years of pre-K, 1 years of kindergarten, 12 years of elementary and secondary school and 2 years of college.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  97. Paul Montagu (26e0d1) — 4/29/2021 @ 8:19 am

    Rob, the problem was all of Trump’s lies about the virus and the vaccine, like when he said in March 2020 that we’d have a vaccine in “a matter of months”. The experts, like Fauci, said we’d be fortunate to have a vaccine by the end of the year, and he was right.

    They were wrong. The end of the year was not an optimistic date, it wasa pessimistic one.

    Trump wanted the vaccine authorized before Election Day and the Democrats did not, and exerted teheir utmost efforts to prevent that The companies saw what they were up against and they used a strategy of tryin to get a vaccine authorized as early as possible but not before November 3, 2020.

    The “October Surprise” accusation instigated by Jimmy Carter during the 1980s, for real.

    All the three chief promoters of that accusation – Barbara Honneger, Abbie Hoffman, and Gary Sick, had a connection to Jimmy Carter. I even read long ago, but cannot find now, a news story that Jimmy Carter edited (and approved) the manuscript of Gary Sick before it was published. And that means more to me than what it probably meant to whoever published that.

    Trump lied about Fauci, asserting that he “said it’s probably never going to happen. I mean, Fauci was saying three years, four years, five years—a lot of people said 12 years.”

    That’s Trump’s usual lies.

    Trump also claimed that the vaccine would be available in October 2020, conveniently prior to election day, and then he dishonestly blamed the drug companies and his FDA for suppressing approval until after the election, as if there was some sort of conspiracy against him.

    Oh, there was, I am sure.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  98. JVW (ee64e4) — 4/28/2021 @ 10:14 pm

    I’m just waiting for the day when the Democrats don’t come up with a plan for “bringing us into the 21st Century” or “maintaining our competitive edge” that doesn’t somehow involve creating loads more of government employees and expanding their power to regulate our lives.

    It’s not just government employees. It’s also contractors, and employees of non-profits. Most educrats do not work for the government, letalone the federal government,.

    Yeah, I’m a cynic, but it’s hard not to see their true aim as benefiting their most loyal party supporters rather than the country as a whole.

    The problem is that Republican politicians don’t want to make that accusation.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)


  99. Since 1945, they (the military) have (lost), or not achieved victory.

    Well, they won some small ones (e.g. Panama), and South Korea has done OK. They won twice in Iraq, only to have the win thrown away. Afghanistan was a loss though, I have to give you that. A nice big nuke on 9/12 might have left a clearer impression.

    When going toe to toe with forces backed by the Soviet Union and/or China, the US clearly lost or failed to roll back (Vietnam, Korea). When picking on little countries (Grenada, Panama) of course it is no contest. When fighting a guerilla insurgency (Vietnam (conceding the US defeated the Viet Cong but not North Vietnam), Iraq, Afghanistan) the US clearly lost wars of attrition. If we won in Iraq, why are we still there (when we are not wanted)?

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  100. @79. Not so sure the issue is money or free education and more an issue of reorgainzation and academic discipline.

    Albeit anecdotal, but myself and classmates received a far better education in Europe than my compatriots of the same age did in the United States. Ad we were using the same textbooks. Nic may be able to add to this. It had to do with how the curriculum was presented. Schools stateside often would only make their way through half or three quarters of a book while in the UK, we’d complete the entire volume. There were far less distractions during school hours, too [far fewer extracurricular activities as well] and the ‘school year’ ran ten months w/July and August off[ all Eurpoe took August off.] No cars; no jeans; no Friday night football or basketball games; coat and tie required every day. Holiday periods offered low priced packaged trips for students to historic sites actually covered in the classroom. We were easily two years ahead of stateside students of the same age who spent far too much time playing around.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  101. Nic and Time,

    how about you read the article and the evidence I’m presenting time after time to show this radical takeover is happening in our school systems and it’s intentional. Are you shilling for the radicals? Trying to hide what is happening in front of our eyes? What’s the point in trying to hide what’s open and obvious to all who look?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  102. How about teaching kids the fundamentals such as reading, writing and arithmetic to go with real civics instead of dumbing down education by teaching social justice and America is a fundamentally racist nation? Give that a shot and see if education improves.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  103. Nic and Time,

    how about you read the article and the evidence I’m presenting time after time to show this radical takeover is happening in our school systems and it’s intentional. Are you shilling for the radicals? Trying to hide what is happening in front of our eyes? What’s the point in trying to hide what’s open and obvious to all who look?

    NJRob (eb56c3) — 4/29/2021 @ 9:58 am

    The article you provided isn’t evidence of a radical take over. It’s not even evidence of radicalism on the small scale. It’s a excerpt from an email from a language coordinator that was promptly disavowed by the ast. Superintendent. As any suggestion to hide curriculum material from parents should be. When I follow links you’ve provided I find that once I strip out the overheated rhetoric there’s really nothing there. The last one I recall digging into the ‘radical take over’ involved changing the name of a college dept. at Cornell from “Department of English Literature” to “Depart of Literature in English”.

    But, I sort of enjoy reading these, and while I think you’re letting selection bias get the the better of you, I know you’re smart and well educated and I’ll continue to read your comments and think about what you share.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  104. President Biden didn’t bring up some issued with China (nothing about co-operation or truthfulness about the waay the pandemic started( and he didn’t mention Xinjiang even as a trade issue, limiting only yo repeating that he had apologized to Xi for having to mention the Uighurs – that’s whatt he did. He told Xi he was forced to mention it (but he shouldn’t take it seriously as an area of U.S. concern. That’s what this means:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/29/us/politics/joe-biden-speech-transcript.html

    In my discussions with President Xi….. I pointed out to him, no responsible American president could remain silent when basic human rights are being so blatantly violated.

    He didn’t mention in that speech last night where and how human rights were being violated in China.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  105. https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/04/roosevelt-university-profs-caught-gloating-on-zoom-call-its-all-social-justice-all-day/

    Two Roosevelt University professors who also serve on the Oak Park and River Forest High School school board were caught on an open Zoom call bragging about how they promote Marxist re-organization of American society to their college students.

    Talking before the start of OPRF’s Feb. 26 board meeting on a live microphone, Gina Harris and Ralph Martire said they were proud to advocate for so-called “social justice” Marxist economic concepts.

    “I mean, it’s all social justice. All day, every day, I get to talk about the things I love. I’m really living the life over here,” Harris said.

    She called social justice “a part of everything,” adding that she was teaching “middle school theory and practice” to future K-12 teachers at Roosevelt.

    Martire, a Roosevelt professor of public policy and public administration, said the way he views government budgets is through a lens on how use them to “organize society.”

    And on and on. Over and over again. Indoctrination is taking place in our schools and being pushed by a radical left that hates our nation.

    But keep pretending otherwise.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  106. But is it Marxist, or simply racist?

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  107. This summary is incomplete enough to be a lie by omission.

    Martire, a Roosevelt professor of public policy and public administration, said the way he views government budgets is through a lens on how use them to “organize society.”

    Here’s what he actually said about his public policy class:

    I flip on the kids you take my masters class on fiscal policy and budgets…the first 3 or 4 classes are devoted to the philosophy of social justice and how you organize a society.”

    He went on to explain:

    If you don’t understand your priorities you can’t organize your resources among public priorities that are scarce but all needed.

    That doesn’t seem radical to me. In fact, it sounds similar to a managerial accounting I took that stressed how accounting decisions can impact organizational behavior.

    Yet again, one of your examples of indoctrination isn’t.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  108. Yes,

    so he’s not teaching budgetary policy. He’s focusing on the “philosophy of social justice and how you organize society and we don’t talk about one budgetary item.” “If you don’t understand your values you cannot allocate resources among public priorities that are scarce but all needed.”

    It’s indoctrination 101.

    Then with their positions on the board they pushed racist policies in the public school system such as

    Nearly two years after students first expressed a need for a class to openly discuss racial and equity issues, Oak Park and River Forest High School announced the first group has been enrolled in the course.

    The new race equity course is designed to engage students in dialogues about race, equity and diversity, while developing solidarity across identities, officials said.

    But keep attempting to gaslight.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  109. He was teaching a college masters class in public policy on fiscal policy and budgets. How your priorities are reflected in the budget is on topic. Hell we’ve been loudly arguing about that for the past year wrt to police funding.

    Nearly two years after students first expressed a need for a class to openly discuss racial and equity issues, Oak Park and River Forest High School announced the first group has been enrolled in the course.

    The new race equity course is designed to engage students in dialogues about race, equity and diversity, while developing solidarity across identities, officials said.

    If they’re such crazed radicals why did they wait 2 years after students asked for a class? If they’re so racist why are they trying to find common ground across identities.

    Time123 (53ef45)

  110. Again, not examples of indoctrination.

    Time123 (53ef45)

  111. The new race equity course is designed to engage students in dialogues about race, equity and diversity, while developing solidarity across identities, officials said.

    I suspect that certain avenues of discussion will be cancellation fodder.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  112. kevin, It’s possible that the classes aren’t as NJRob described them. But for now I’ll take him at his word.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  113. NJRob (eb56c3) — 4/29/2021 @ 12:37 pm

    It’s indoctrination 101.

    No, it’s not. He assumes they are already indoctrinated, or maybe finds them that way, or, for the purposes of this course, he does not go into the merits of anything anyone wants to do.

    His course is about budgeting. (budgeting in my opinion, involves too much advance planning, by the way)

    His course is about the necessity to choose – his point being that you can;t spend money on every idea that’s been proposed.

    The new race equity course is designed to engage students in dialogues about race, equity and diversity, while developing solidarity across identities, officials said.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  114. He didn’t mention in that speech last night where and how human rights were being violated in China.

    Not our business.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  115. The pre-kindergaten plan would put every preschool that now exists out of business. Since the plan would, without a doubt, require union credentials none of the current preschool operators would qualify. I guess they could try to run a private system against the “free” public one, but good luck with that.

    This is a payoff to the NEA, making jobs for those union “teachers” unqualified to actually teach, and two more years of indoctrination for out kids. Four more if you count the two more years of high-school they intend to add.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  116. Question: Will private colleges still accept people straight out of 12th grade, or will they want to wait for 14th grade graduates?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  117. All that Clintn did (while attempting to make tit look like his 1993 budget did it) was arrange behind the scenes for the Federal Reserve Board to keep interest rates low, which resulted in economic growth.

    Yes, but unlike Obama, Trump and Biden, Clinton managed to run a surplus with zero rates. We are at zero rates again, but we have multi-trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see.

    Where is David Stockman when you need him? Oh, right. He’s here, lobbying for unicorns.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  118. One thing that bothers me about the jr college plan: Assuming that actual students go to 4-year colleges, we are paying money to give more classroom education to students who seem least prepared to accept it.

    Wouldn’t it make more sense to restore a lot of the high-school shop classes (woodshop, metal shop, auto shop, electical, plumbing and other trades) that were downsized or eliminated in the last 50 years as everyone was pushed into academic tracks?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  119. https://www.forbes.com/sites/tarabrown/2012/05/30/the-death-of-shop-class-and-americas-high-skilled-workforce/?sh=2dcaac4a541f

    Shop classes are being eliminated from California schools due to the University of California/California State ‘a-g’ requirements. ‘The intent of the ‘a-g’ subject requirements is to ensure that students can participate fully in the first-year program at the University in a wide variety of fields of study.’ (a) History/Social Science (b) English © Mathematics (d) Laboratory Science (e) Language other than English (f) Visual and Performing Arts (g) College Preparatory Elective Courses. High school administrators are graded on their effectiveness to administer those classes through the Western Association of Schools and Colleges accreditation. Shop class is not included in the requirements, thereby not valued and schools consider the class a burden to support. Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD) with 660,000 students in K-12 has already eliminated 90% of shop classes and it looks like the rest will be gone by the end of the 2013.

    And they are: https://coursecatalog.lausd.net/CourseCatalog/

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  120. “Hello? Dr. Laura? I’m my kids’ mom and I know that Marxism is bad but what should I do if my local school board tries to indoctrinate my kids with Abbot and Costello, too?”

    nk (1d9030)

  121. 117. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/29/2021 @ 4:51 pm

    Question: Will private colleges still accept people straight out of 12th grade, or will they want to wait for 14th grade graduates?

    Well, colleges will accept most 14th grade graduates as equal to 60 credits, or close to it. They’ll be offering introductory level college courses, or credit as early as the 11th grade.

    They do now.

    https://hsmse.org/academics/ap-collegenow

    Except that each college might have a different distribution requirement.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  122. Shop classes are cool, but they’re teaching third-world job skills.

    Students would be much better served taking more math, computing, science, etc, wouldn’t they?

    Dave (1bb933)

  123. 118.

    Clinton managed to run a surplus with zero rates.

    It wasn;t zero rates.

    https://money.cnn.com/1999/08/24/economy/fed_rates

    We are at zero rates again, but we have multi-trillion dollar deficits as far as the eye can see.

    We’ve been at near zero since 2008. but Biden is comvonced the reason the economy didn’t grow so much during the Obama Administration is that they didn’t run big enough deficits. This is a genuine belief of his. I think ot’s what this Paul Krugman column says:

    https://www.baltimoresun.com/featured/sns-nyt-op-biden-economy-20210115-q4sg5s7hareu5pj43lci5e3sam-story.html The original sin of Obama economic policy was the underpowered stimulus of 2009. The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act helped stabilize the economy, but it was much too small given the depths of the crisis. This isn’t hindsight; some of us were very publicly tearing our hair out in real time.
    One reason the plan was too small was that Obama was trying to gain bipartisan support, rather than using reconciliation to push it through with Democratic votes (which is how Republicans passed the 2017 tax cut). But that support never came; instead, a sluggish recovery helped Republicans take the House in 2010, setting the stage for years of policy sabotage.

    Biden must not make the same mistake. It’s OK for him to spend a few days giving some Republicans a chance to get on board, but he can’t let the pursuit of cross-party support lead to watered-down policies

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  124. It would be useful for more people to have do-it-yourself skills. Shop could be an extracurricular activity.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  125. Or make it something tech-y like robotics.

    Dave (1bb933)

  126. @NJRob@102 I did, in fact, read the article and it doesn’t show what you are saying. None of the articles you’ve posted seem to do that. Most of them are about private schools, even the one on the Roosevelt college prof, Roosevelt is a private college.

    @Kevin@116 There is no shortage of teaching jobs. We aren’t producing enough teachers to fill the positions that currently exist.

    @Kevin@120 That’s one of those things where the pendulum swings back and forth. At the moment things are pretty pro-CTE (career and technical ed- shop, auto repair, airplane maintenance, culinary, ect). We run into two issues. First, most parents want their students to at least be college qualified, so there isn’t enough time to run a student through a full set of professional qualification courses and second, sometimes the teachers for those programs don’t exist any more. The shop teacher and the culinary arts teacher at my current site both retired at the end of last year and we couldn’t replace either of them. Community college can be more flexible and there are actually already a lot of public/private partnerships out there where local businesses are working with local community colleges to create programs that specialize in areas the local business community needs.

    @Dave@126 Robotics is a big up and coming thing. There are a fair number of robotics classes and competitions. The kids love it.

    Nic (896fdf)

  127. The shop teacher and the culinary arts teacher at my current site both retired at the end of last year and we couldn’t replace either of them.

    Do those positions require a teaching credential like any other?

    Dave (1bb933)

  128. @Dave@128 Yep, though I think they could probably do a professional credential rather than a traditional one if they’ve worked in the field for a while. They would still require at least a BA though.

    Nic (896fdf)

  129. I think ot’s what this Paul Krugman column says:

    If he’s reading Krugman, then they’re both senile.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  130. Students would be much better served taking more math, computing, science, etc, wouldn’t they?

    Not if they don’t (or won’t or can’t) understand those things. Do you think the world would be great if everyone was writing code for your airplane?

    Some people have third world minds. The real reason they don’t teach shop is that everyone in the third world learns “shop” and we let them all come here and put our lesser relatives out of work. But boy, those new cabinets were cheap.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  131. Some people have third world minds. The real reason they don’t teach shop is that everyone in the third world learns “shop” and we let them all come here and put our lesser relatives out of work. But boy, those new cabinets were cheap.

    This is pretty ignorant of what it takes to do good cabinetry.

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  132. Some people have third world minds.

    “The soft bigotry of low expectations…”

    Dave (1bb933)

  133. Does anyone here actually think that skilled trades don’t require good cognitive abilities? You can be a stone mason, or carpenter, or plumber and not understand what James Joyce was getting at, or the but your can’t be bad at math, or generally stupid.

    Not being able to evaluate a data set for hypothesis testing, or read a wall of legal text to understand the meaning doesn’t make you bad at math, or bad at reading. Neither does not being able to figure out the best way to do corner joints or understand the installation instructions for a new concrete underlayer.

    The lack of appreciation for what it takes to do a trade well never ceases to amaze me.

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  134. And nowhere is that prejudice more prevalent than in academics, Time123. And nowhere in academics more prevalent than in administration.

    Your 7th grade science teacher might have built her own desk, but your vice principal is not going to make principal because he knows how to change a flat tire on his car. (In my admittedly limited experience, though, they do manage to marry wives who can. Change a tire.)

    It goes back to Aristotle. Seriously. Work is for menials, not philosophers, according to him. No experiments, no trial and error, no getting the hands dirty. A true philosopher only thought, read, wrote and talked. Archimedes, of all people, got guff for actually making things instead of only thinking about them.

    Doctors, in classical times would not perform surgeries. Doctors simply did not do that. They had assistants, usually slaves, to do that. And it lasted until the Napoleonic Wars. Before surgeons were considered doctors in the West.

    nk (1d9030)

  135. Here is Biden;s economic theory – where he claims, or tries to sound like he is claiming, that all economists support his reasoning.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/29/us/politics/joe-biden-speech-transcript.html

    You know, there’s a broad consensus of economists left, right and center, and they agree what I’m proposing will create millions of jobs and generate historic economic growth. These are among the highest-value investments we can make as a nation.

    And then he goes on to a non sequitor, Maybe the problem is that the transcript didn’t start a new paragraph there.

    You know, when somebody says “you know” they are trying to avoid having to defend the thing they are about to say. It was a common speech trope of Hillary Clinton. She always ysed to say “you know”

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  136. The worst thing in Biden’s speech:

    …The defense department has an agency called DARPA, the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency…The National Institutes of Health, the N.I.H, I believe, should create a similar advanced research projects agency for health. And that would — here’s what it would do: It would have a singular purpose, to develop breakthroughs to prevent, detect and treat diseases like Alzheimer’s, diabetes and cancer.

    Joe Biden saying this indicates that he knows nothing about what the bottleneck is in making medical progress.

    edical research is not treated like research in physics. There is a “valley of death” in which what has been dscovered by research isn’t used.

    And the fact that there was very little comment on this in published material indicates that very few people realize this.

    https://www.stopsarcoidosis.org/fsr-dia-2017

    https://curesearch.org/what-is-translational-research-explaining-the-valley-of-death/

    And that doesn’t get into the totally unnecessary step by baby step and clinical trial system. Clinical trials actually prevent doctors from improving their treatment, because the trial has to be standardized.

    Joe Biden talks like things are still like the way they were 100 years ago woth the discovery of the use of insulin for diabetes.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)

  137. From the speech:

    ….We have shown each other and the world that there’s no quit in America. None.

    Later:

    And American leadership meaning ending the forever war in Afghanistan… Today we have service members serving in the same war zone as their parents did. We have service members in Afghanistan who were not yet born on 9/11. The war in Afghanistan, as we remember the debates here, were never meant to be multigenerational undertakings of nation building.

    Sammy Finkelman (51cd0c)


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