Patterico's Pontifications

4/14/2021

The Height of Irresponsibility: Tucker Carlson Says It Seems Like the Vaccines Don’t Work and the Government Is Hiding That From You

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



Here’s the short version of my rant:

The natural response from Tucker defenders is going to go something like this: that’s a Media Matters for America clip, but if you watch the whole segment he is asking some pretty legitimate questions. Like: why do Fauci and other health experts keep saying we need to stay locked down if the vaccines still work? And why did the feds pause Johnson & Johnson after a handful of blood clotting episodes? None of this makes sense!

In my view, that defense fails. What Tucker Carlson is doing here is evil. I’ll explain.

First, if you’re worried about context, you can get all the context you want in a ten-minute clip embedded here. But the heart of why this is evil is fully contained in the clip above that I retweeted, and it can be found in this quote:

So maybe it doesn’t work and they’re simply not telling you that. Well you hate to think that, especially if you’ve gotten two shots. But what’s the other potential explanation? We can’t think of one. We know the Prime Minister of Canada has decided, after thinking about it a lot, that vaccines just don’t work — and we know that, because he said it out loud.

Uh, no, he didn’t, you lying scumbag. Here’s what Trudeau said:

I think it’s really important that we work from facts and understanding of the science around things. We know for example that the UK is ahead of just about everybody else on vaccinations and yet they maintain very strong restrictions and are facing a very serious third wave. Vaccinations on their own are not enough to keep us safe, we need to engage in the right kind of behaviors. Do things that the conservatives aren’t always good at like wearing masks, keeping distances and obeying public health rules.

Saying that vaccines, in a population that has not been fully vaccinated, should be accompanied by other non-pharmaceutical interventions is not the same as saying “vaccines just don’t work” and it is a lie for Carlson to say otherwise. It is the height of simplistic and even stupid thinking to equate “having a portion of the population vaccinated will not immediately stop the virus in its tracks” and “vaccines just don’t work.”

I don’t think Carlson is so stupid he can’t tell the difference. I don’t think he truly thinks vaccines don’t work. He’s just pandering to the fringier parts of his massive audience for ratings. Period.

So why are health experts saying we still need to be careful for a while, even if vaccinated, and why are they encouraging the continuation of non-pharmeceutical interventions for a period of time after vaccination? Is it because “vaccines just don’t work”? No, it’s because they are concerned about variants and still-ongoing local spikes of cases.

People could have a discussion about whether Fauci has been overcautious. I’m not as convinced as most on the right seem to be that his caution is *necessarily* awful, I read a book about COVID by Nicholas Christakis, who knows a thing or two about public health, and he has consistently been of the view that a vaccine is not going to return us back to normal with a snap of the fingers. With spikes recurring in certain areas, and variants on the loose in parts of the world, if the public health experts want to signal that some caution is in order for a while longer, I’m not going to get too huffy about it. As I have always said, COVID has a longer attention span than Americans do.

And while concern motivated by businesses going under is a genuine issue, I am really put off by the people who act like wearing a mask is some great sacrifice and infringement of our freedom, and I accord very little weight to their whining. Hurting businesses are a different matter, and we can certainly debate government caution in light of the economic suffering so many have felt for so long.

But all of that has little to do with Tucker’s trafficking in conspiracy theories to appeal to an audience of three million people, with an outsized contingent of vaccine skeptics. He could phrase his argument the way most on the right are these days: obviously the vaccines work, as the evidence of their efficacy is stark and overwhelming . . . so why all the caution?? Instead, he panders to anti-vaxxer sentiment.

Social norms do not allow the adequate response. I can’t find words — at least words that I can repeat without being drummed out of polite society — to properly convey the depth of my contempt for this punk in light of what he did here.

And the best part is, although I can’t find evidence of it, that you know he has been vaccinated. I’d bet a year’s salary on it. But it’s probably a closely guarded secret, because it might cut into his ratings if people found out.

Tucker Carlson is just a truly terrible, awful person, and what he has done here is evil.

90 Responses to “The Height of Irresponsibility: Tucker Carlson Says It Seems Like the Vaccines Don’t Work and the Government Is Hiding That From You”

  1. I can’t disagree about your conclusion. Tucker seems to think his audience can’t tell the difference between “vaccines mostly work, but you still should be careful because it’s a dangerous virus and they’re not 100% effective” and “vaccines don’t work”.

    Perhaps he’s right.

    Victor (4959fb)

  2. He is pandering and monetizing off of the Trumpists who have lost their messiah of disinformation.

    Hoi Polloi (ade50d)

  3. I don’t think Carlson is so stupid he can’t tell the difference. I don’t think he truly thinks vaccines don’t work. He’s just pandering to the fringier parts of his massive audience for ratings. Period.

    This is correct. Like many right wing leaders Tucker is a grifter who does more harm then good. I wish it weren’t so, but it is.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  4. I get very irritable when people with no training in science make statements like TC did. Everyone has a right to an opinion, even an uninformed one. But our awful social media world has given a huge megaphone to some voices, and not others. Ugh.

    Heck, I know the vaccine works because I tested my own immune system via an ELISA test. I also have read about vaccination programs in the past.

    We also have this weird ability to not look at relative risks—such blood clots from vaccines, blood clots from COVID-19, blood clots from birth control pills, and blood clots from smoking.

    Political factions, and I mean all of them, seem to laser focus on misrepresentation in order to gain attention or power. Simply ugh.

    Simon Jester (b44756)

  5. I got the J&J vaccine last Friday. Yesterday morning, a family member texted that I need to go the hospital immediately and raised many of these same points. He also added that the fact the vaccine was developed so quickly is itself evidence of something nefarious and proof that it must not work. Additionally, “where is the vaccine for AIDS? Or cancer? Or the common cold?”

    I know he’s just trying to look out for me and the questions are borne of a genuine desire to look out for my safety, but it’s become very difficult to deal with. I said I appreciate the concern but I feel comfortable with my choice. I don’t even know how to address some of those questions without coming across as dismissive.

    This is the natural outcome of political tribalism. I loathe Carlson and I am by no means defending this garbage, but I think the kind of ridiculous remarks we are discussing probably in some ways are a response to the excess on the other side. It’s accepted without question that masks were always recommended as a safety measure–they weren’t–and that “science” has a uniform and objective answer to actual scientific questions, let alone policy questions that turn on those same scientific issues. Many lefties also insist there is no way the virus was manmade, and even thinking otherwise is problematic. And so Carlson and Trump fans gravitate towards the idea there must not be any answers at all. That response in turn feeds the “other” side even more, with each staking out dumb positions that probably don’t reflect what they really believe, but they do so lest they be seen as being on the “wrong” team.

    JohnnyAgreeable (9abaa9)

  6. Johnny, Tough situation. On the one hand they clearly care about you. On the other they’re a little off base on the facts.

    Time123 (53ef45)

  7. why do Fauci and other health experts keep saying we need to stay locked down if the vaccines still work?

    The problem with that question is that the suggested answer – that the vaccine doesn’t work – is not the truth.

    The truth is that Fauci saying this is stupid, or dumbed down for the public, [I mean you could say nobody knows who is vaccinated so everybody should still do it] and based on the idea that you cannot say that a vaccinated person might not get an asymptomatic or very mild case, and still transmit the disease.

    What Tucker is doing is following a party line.

    And why did the feds pause Johnson & Johnson after a handful of blood clotting episodes? None of this makes sense!

    Yes, but that doesn’t mean that what the anti-vaxxers say makes sense.

    It’s not that they know the truth and are lying. They really, really, really, are using stupid reasoning.

    This is known as “science.”

    Every single fact (outside of pre-selected categories) must be proven separately. No deductions or extrapolations are allowed. Medicines are treated as if they were magic formulas.

    Oh, and: THE INITIAL RECOMMENDATIONS REQUIRE NO STRONG PROOF, BUT ANY ATTEMPT TO CHANGE THEM DOES.

    Six feet it was, six feet it largely shall remain. And they even forget that six feet was originally the distance of separation without masks

    Sammy Finkelman (6975b4)

  8. Justin Trudeau:

    Do things that the conservatives aren’t always good at like wearing masks, keeping distances and obeying public health rules.

    Rather than invent your own rules.

    Trudeau left out ventilation, which matters a whole lot more than masks and distancing, and the importance of minimizing viral dose. (Some variants need less of a dose to cause the same infection in the same person as the standard one would do.)

    And he hasn’t repudiated cleaning of surfaces, still maybe a public health rule that there never was any valid reason for, and which should have been gone a long time ago.

    I am really put off by the people who act like wearing a mask is some great sacrifice and infringement of our freedom

    If people say it is, you should believe them.

    You breathe in bad air. It’s uncomfortable.

    Sammy Finkelman (6975b4)

  9. Louche little rich kid, playing faux-populist rabble-rouser.

    This net-negative-value twerp should go back to playing with with bros like Gaetz.

    john (cd2753)

  10. He’s just pandering to the fringier parts of his massive audience for ratings. Period.

    And you’ve given him the attention he wants: Trump 101.

    Period.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  11. ‘Tucker McNear Swanson Carlson was always going to be a journalist, if only through inertia and nepotism; the talent was a bonus. Carlson is the son of Dick Carlson, a media executive, who used to direct the Voice of America and is a former CEO of The Corporation for Public Broadcasting. Tucker was born in 1969, the older of two boys. Their mother, Lisa McNear Carlson, left the family when he was six. “Totally bizarre situation—which I never talk about, because it was actually not really part of my life at all,” Carlson told The New Yorker in 2017.

    When Tucker was 10, Dick remarried to Patricia Swanson of the Swanson frozen dinner fortune; her uncle was Senator J. William Fulbright. Carlson and his brother Buckley went to the Rhode Island private school St. George’s and, later, Tucker attended Trinity College, where, as he told the CJR in an interview, he spent his days mostly drunk. He graduated in 1992 and married his high school sweetheart, Susan Anderson.

    In 2001, Carlson was asked to co-host Crossfire with Paul Begala. He also hosted a weekly public affairs show on PBS, Tucker Carlson: Unfiltered. The most notable moment of Crossfire, the one everyone remembers, aired on October 15, 2004. That was the day Jon Stewart came on Crossfire and called Tucker Carlson a dick.

    It’s an infamous moment in cable news history. Carlson and Begala seem to think Stewart is there to promote his book, but he immediately begins criticizing the show. Any attempt by the co-hosts to retake control comes off as weak and wheedling. They try to bait him, but Stewart won’t budge. He defends himself as saying he’s just entertainment, a defense that in hindsight feels misleading considering the way The Daily Show changed news and comedy. In response, Carlson stutters. He’s defensive. He laughs nervously, an early sign of what would become a trademark tic.’ – source, https://www.cjr.org/the_profile/tucker-carlson.php

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  12. ‘In March 1998, Campbell Soup spun off the Swanson frozen meal business along with several other brands, including Vlasic, to a company called Vlasic Foods International; the company was re-branded Pinnacle Foods in 2001. In the spin-off, Campbell Soup granted Pinnacle a ten-year license to use the Swanson name on frozen meals and pot pies. That agreement expired in mid-2009, just before Pinnacle purchased Birds Eye Foods. Pinnacle continued to produce frozen meals, but it discontinued the use of the Swanson name in favor of the Hungry-Man brand; however, it remains in use for pot pies. Swanson’s frozen breakfast line was re-branded Aunt Jemima several years before.’– source, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swanson

    “Aunt Jemima,”???

    Well, bite my salisbury steak and ‘tucker-in’ to my apple cobbler.

    You’re a racist, Tucka.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  13. Six feet it was, six feet it largely shall remain. And they even forget that six feet was originally the distance of separation without masks.

    If you got Fauci on audio or video saying that, the ghost of George Wallace can rest much easier. And the next Doug Flutie or Kyler Murray can have fun with that as well.

    urbanleftbehind (56f0af)

  14. Twist the screws tight enough, he’ll crumple. Par for course that of all the Central American tin pots he could visit he goes to El Salvador to film a segment. Their president is a non-meso (Lebanese), higher on the kosher con Tucker paper bag scale, and the 13s probably have his NW DC home well-cased.

    urbanleftbehind (56f0af)

  15. 4. Simon Jester (b44756) — 4/14/2021 @ 9:28 am

    We also have this weird ability to not look at relative risks—such blood clots from vaccines, blood clots from COVID-19, blood clots from birth control pills, and blood clots from smoking.

    Who;s the “we” here? Not the general public. The Food and Drug Administration and the Centers for Disease Control. And you know that in a few days, they’ll say the J&J vaccine is OK, or that’s their intention.

    Now their possible excuse is that they want to alert doctors to be on the lookout for this and not give heparin (did any of these people get heparin?) to someone who got the J&J vaccine 6 to 13 days before, but we’ll have people in that category for another 5-12 days and if a few days is enough time to educate doctors then by the time a vaccination that was administered today becomes an issue, the doctors will have been educated anyway!

    The pause was not binding on the states, or on medical professionals, but out of a lack of confidence in their own judgment, fear of making a mistake, or being different, every state, one by one, fell into line.

    You want to know something? Every one of the six clots was in the brain. That cannot be because clots are more likely to take place there, but it could be because they are more dangerous there. It was probably first reported as headaches. Then they discovered it was caused by clots. Clots that occurred in he veins going away from the brain and associated initially with antibodies to a platelet factor.

    They also discovered, or remembered, and Peter Marks, the director of the FDA Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research. mentioned during a webinar Tuesday that there was a case of a blood clot that occurred in a man during the clinical trial. It caused a temporary halt to the trial, but then they decided it was a coincidence.

    Clots, or at least headaches, the day after getting the vaccine may be a lot more common, but are not considered this problem.

    Political factions, and I mean all of them, seem to laser focus on misrepresentation in order to gain attention or power. Simply ugh.

    You can say that again. All of them, especially with the Internet censorship in play especially (quoting YouTube) “content that contradicts the consensus of local and global health authorities” – which doesn;t stop the circulation of widely promoted ideas, but might limit the circulation of anything that isn’t supported by some faction.

    Sammy Finkelman (6975b4)

  16. if the bar for “evil” is set this low, then there’s plenty of evil in the media to call out

    it’s not just businesses that are buckling under nonsensical restrictions

    we moved from oregon to arizona, a highly restrictive state to a very lightly restrictive state, from a state that just this month moved to in person classes in grade school but only two days a week to a state where in person classes have been happening every day since august

    yet, the seven day covid average is virtually identical per capita in both states

    the restrictions are nuts, and the point is that post-vaccine it’s even more nuts and indefensible, and our kids are just pawns

    so, please tell me more about “evil” and when to call it out

    JF (6fcdbe)

  17. JF, your argument is a good one, but that’s not what Tucker did. He lied and implied the vaccine didn’t work.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  18. Six feet it was, six feet it largely shall remain. And they even forget that six feet was originally the distance of separation without masks.

    13. urbanleftbehind (56f0af) — 4/14/2021 @ 11:37 am

    If you got Fauci on audio or video saying that, the ghost of George Wallace can rest much easier. And the next Doug Flutie or Kyler Murray can have fun with that as well.

    I am not sure what the reference to George Wallace or Doug Flutie and Kyler Murray (who are they?) is, but here is a reference to it:

    https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/outdated-fauci-video-on-face-masks-shared-out-of-context

    An outdated video clip of Dr. Anthony Fauci is circulating on social media — giving the false impression he is currently advising the public not to wear face masks. Fauci, like other health officials, recommends wearing a cloth face covering when distances of at least six feet can’t be maintained.

    Fauci’s “outdated” original, original statement on masks, where he said wear masks if you want, but there’s no reason to be walking around with a mask; masks are for people who are around infected people was on March 8

    In thenew improved April 3 version cited here

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/what-dr-fauci-wants-you-to-know-about-face-masks-and-staying-home-as-virus-spreads#transcript

    Fauci says “even though the perfect solution to this is if everyone at all times could stay six feet separated from another person, but, as you correctly mentioned, this is not always feasible.” In other words, wear a mask when you can’t stay 6 feet away.

    Now the idea that someone has to be within six feet to transmit the virua was completely wrong but that was based on a completely wrong theory as to how flu was spread. (and since it was demonstrably true that people contracted influenza when never getting closer than six feet to a flu case, fomites on surfaces were used to explain that, and they are very very slow and careful in dropping this idea because they don’t want to say that anything they ever said was wrong.

    By May 2020 Fauci it was a little bit different yet. (the May 19 factcheck.org page may have been a little bit out of date itself) Dr. Fauci was saying wear a mask even when further than 6 feet away attributing it the then Director of the CDC, Dr. Robert Redfield.

    Here is Dr. Fauci on May 12, 2020: (go about 51 seconds in)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_FWRVURT2s

    He says you need, for the time being, some supplementation to just physical distancing.

    Sammy Finkelman (6975b4)

  19. Official mask mandates are thought to reduce the spread of Covid by about 2%. The effect of wearing them may be greater. But people wear them or they don’t.

    Sammy Finkelman (6975b4)

  20. Tucker fills the role that Rush Limbaugh left empty.

    pouncer (6c33cf)

  21. Dr. Robert Redfield is one of those people who think the virus escaped from a lab (which doesn’t necessarily mean it was created in a lab, either accidentally or on purpose.)

    The Secretary of State, Anthony Blinken was asked about a very open ended question which incorporated the lab theory on Meet the Press on Sunday and the way he answered it he acted like he was walking on eggshells.

    (evidently he believes that is the most likely explanation but Joe Biden doesn’t like this theory or doesn’t wish to raise any questions about the origin of the coronavirus as a major diplomatic issue with China. Biden could be almost as bad as Trump when it comes to inconvenient facts)

    https://www.state.gov/secretary-antony-j-blinken-with-chuck-todd-of-nbcs-meet-the-press

    QUESTION: The origins of COVID. The WHO initial report settled nothing. Let me ask you this: Do you think China does know this answer and they’re withholding it?

    SECRETARY BLINKEN: Very good question. I think China – here’s what I think China knows. I think China knows that in the early stages of COVID, it didn’t do what it needed to do, which was to in real time give access to international experts, in real time to share information, in real time to provide real transparency. And one result of that failure is that the vaccine – the virus, excuse me – got out of hand faster and with I think much more egregious results than it might otherwise.

    But this speaks to what we have to do now, Chuck, and this speaks to what China and other countries have to do now. As we’re dealing with COVID-19, we also have to put in place a stronger global health security system to make sure that this doesn’t happen again or, if it does happen again, we’re able to mitigate it, to get ahead of it. And that means making a real commitment to transparency, to information sharing, to access for experts. It means strengthening the World Health Organization and reforming it so it can do that. And China has to play a part in that.

    QUESTION: Do we have to get to – are we going to guarantee to the world that we’re going to get to the bottom of how this originated?

    SECRETARY BLINKEN: Well, I think we have to, because we need to do that precisely so we fully understand what happened in order to have the best shot possible at preventing it from happening again. That’s why we need to get to the bottom of this.

    Sammy Finkelman (6975b4)

  22. Good takedown of Carlson. Nice to see Allahpundit say that “Patterico’s already said everything that needs to be said about Carlson’s show last night.”

    Dana (fd537d)

  23. there are hundreds of exotic wet markets in china, and it just so happens the outbreak occurred at the one near the lab

    it also just so happens this is the explanation that hurts feelings the least

    JF (6fcdbe)

  24. When we get to herd immunity (assuming we do, despite asshats like Carlson) then the masks can start coming off.

    But until then, there are more than a few people who cannot benefit from the vaccine, and rely on herd immunity (AIDs patients, transplant patients, cancer patients …. nearly anyone without a working immune system for the vaccine to ramp up). Now, maybe Carlson thinks these “defectives” should just hurry up and die, but that actually IS evil.

    So, we still need the masks. Perhaps those who’ve been vaccinated don’t need them, but you just know what the proudly unvaccinated people will do if that happens.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  25. > You breathe in bad air. It’s uncomfortable.

    yes, it’s uncomfortable. it’s annoying. i’d really rather *not*.

    but it’s not *harmful*, and it reduces the threat I pose to others and which others pose to me, so on the scale of things it’s … an uncomfortable annoyance that protects people.

    what people who say this is a massive infringement on their liberty are telling me is they are unwilling to make sacrifices to protect others in society, and it instantly makes me distrust them about *everything*.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  26. Tucker fills the role that Rush Limbaugh left empty.

    This is unkind to Rush.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  27. In the United States, 300,000 to 600,000 people a year, or 1,000 to 2,000 a day, develop blood clots. But that’s all blood clots. What we’re talking about here is large blood clots that develop in the veins draining blood from the brain and that are associated with antibodies to platelet Factor 4 and a drop in platelets and that later somehow causes clotting.

    This is called cerebral venous sinus thrombosis, or maybe that’s the name for large blood clots in the veins leading from the brain regardless of the cause.

    Sammy Finkelman (6975b4)

  28. The Mrs and I went out to a nice steak dinner last night at Texas Roadhouse. Damn fine ribeye. First sitdown dinner in a year. Restaurant at 50% spacing and an add-on tent to make up for it. Since we’re both vaccinated now, we wanted to see how we felt about crowds. It was OK. Looking forward to catching a baseball game later in the year.

    Of course, the asshats might mess it all up again.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  29. A modest proposal:

    Announce that, as of July 1, the federal mandate that Covid treatment be covered by insurance will sunset for those who remain unvaccinated.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  30. what people who say this is a massive infringement on their liberty are telling me is they are unwilling to make sacrifices

    There IS a difference between doing something voluntarily and being forced to do it. There are some things I normally do, but take umbrage when my choice is removed.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  31. Sammy:

    “Six feet now, six feet it shall remain” has echoes of George Wallace’s “Segregation Now, Segregation Forever”.

    Doug Flutie and Kyler Murray both measure 5’9″, thus the six feet reference may be interpreted as a hard fast rule that pro football coaches, GMs, owners might have about minimum quarterback height (it is NFL draft month). I should have thrown in 5’10” Pat Haden for our southern Californians (Trojans, then Rams).

    urbanleftbehind (56f0af)

  32. For some reason I’m bothered by people equating “conservative” with “supports Trump” just as much as in a previous time they equated “conservative” with “racist.”

    Or maybe those are just riffs on the same theme.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  33. Doug Flutie and Kyler Murray both measure 5’9″

    UCLA’s Mark Harmon was 6′, had a Heisman-winning dad, and still he had to find some other way to earn a living than quarterback.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  34. Monmouth: One in Five Still Shun Vaccine
    ……..
    ……..Currently, 21% of Americans claim they will never get the vaccine if they can avoid it, which is down a statistically insignificant 3 points from prior polls (24% in both January and March). However, the number who say they want to let other people get it first to see how it goes before getting it themselves has dropped – from 21% in March to 12% now. [Note: Interviewing for this poll was completed before federal authorities called for a pause in administering the Johnson & Johnson vaccine.]
    ………
    Partisanship remains the main distinguishing factor among those who want to avoid the vaccine altogether, with 43% of Republicans versus just 5% of Democrats saying this. Currently, 22% of independents say they want to avoid getting the vaccine altogether. Demographically, adults under age 65 (25%) continue to be more likely than seniors (11%) to rule out getting the vaccine. There are no discernable differences by race, though, with similar number of whites (22%) and people of color (20%) saying they will avoid getting the vaccine if they can.

    Just over half (51%) of the adult population reports having already received at least one Covid jab and another 14% say they will get the vaccine as soon as they are allowed. Democrats (67%) are more likely than independents (47%) and Republicans (36%) to report being vaccinated. More white Americans (54%) than people of color (45%) report having already received a shot.
    …….
    …….[T]he public gives high marks for how their state governors have handled the pandemic (62% good job and 34% bad job). This good job number had hovered between 56% and 61% since August, following a period where it was in the high 60s to low 70s.

    The poll records a split decision on how the American public has been dealing with the outbreak – 43% good job and 44% bad job. However, this result is a marked improvement from the net negative ratings registered from late June through last month. The low mark for ratings of how the American public has handled the outbreak was 26% good job and 62% bad job in August. The high point was 51% good job and 33% bad job in May.

    Biden gets positive reviews for his handling of the coronavirus outbreak specifically, with 62% saying he has done a good job and 31% saying he has done a bad job. This rating stood at 57%–31% in March and 58%–23% in late January…….
    ……..
    …….
    Just over 6 in 10 (63%) Americans support the $1.9 trillion Covid stimulus package enacted last month, while 34% oppose it. ……

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  35. Tucker is criticizing the government, not the vaccine. That’s plain as day.

    The government wants to keep their boot on our face forever. That’s the natural result of power.

    NJRob (68a98d)

  36. 24. JF (6fcdbe) — 4/14/2021 @ 12:59 pm

    there are hundreds of exotic wet markets in china, and it just so happens the outbreak occurred at the one near the lab

    Wait, wait wait.

    It wasn’t a wet market

    It was a seafood market.

    It sold animals, that, you know, didn’t breathe air.

    The second floor there had establishments that sold eyeglasses and sunglasses.

    Well, they say, there were a couple of stalls there that sold land animals. (who knows if that’s true?)

    The Chinese government is pushing a theory: It was imported into China in frozen food.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-origin/with-frozen-food-clampdown-china-points-overseas-as-source-of-coronavirus-idUSKBN2861A2

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/02/12/966306301/can-frozen-food-spread-the-coronavirus

    t a news conference this week, the World Health Organization made a surprising statement: The coronavirus could possibly be transmitted on frozen packages of food.

    “We know that the virus can persist and survive in conditions that are found in these cold and frozen environments,” says Peter Ben Embarek, the food scientist who led the World Health Organization team that traveled to China to investigate the origin of the coronavirus pandemic. “But we don’t really understand if the virus can then transmit to humans.”

    Embarek went on to say that scientists need to investigate further this possible route of transmission — and that frozen meat, perhaps frozen wild meat, could have sparked an early outbreak of COVID-19 last year at the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market in Wuhan, China.

    “There were definitely frozen meat and seafood sheltered at Huanan, some of it probably farmed wildlife,” says disease ecologist Peter Daszak, who was also part of the WHO’s team in China. “But there was a lot else going on at the market as well.” For example, there were also stalls selling fresh seafood and wildlife. And, Daszak says, the outbreak could have started from an infected vendor or customer. “We are keeping every option on the table and trying to keep an open mind about it.”

    Chinese scientists have linked several outbreaks in the country last year to frozen packages of meat or seafood. In particular, an outbreak in Beijing last summer centered on a massive wholesale market called Xinfadi Market.

    Scientists found live coronavirus on a package of frozen codfish there. They also found signs of the virus inside the packaging, Daszak says, suggesting the package became contaminated where the frozen food was packed.

    “It was a good bit of detective work,” Daszak says…

    ,,,,These results, as well as the statements from the WHO, were a bit surprising because they go against what scientists have been telling us for a few months now: that you catch COVID-19 primarily through the air, not surfaces, and that you don’t need to wipe down food packages.

    This entire scientific theory is, in my opinion, a cover story for the original outbreak. Nobody else, anywhere in the world, thinks Covid is spread by frozen food, and nobody really does in China.

    And, by the way, of course attention has been directed to the wrong lab: The Wuhan Center for Virology, between 8 and 9 miles away.

    But the establishment with the English name of the Wuhan Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is located about 300 yards from the market that was scapegoated.

    Now, if somebody had been forced to shut down at the WIV but didn’t end the research but moved it into a lab with a lesser level of biosafety.

    You fill in the blanks.

    it also just so happens this is the explanation that hurts feelings the least

    Sammy Finkelman (6975b4)

  37. it also just so happens this is the explanation that hurts feelings the least

    It’s not hurt feelings that the government of China is worried about.

    It’s an explanation that does not involve anybody involved with the government doing anything ti cause this.

    Sammy Finkelman (6975b4)

  38. 110% agreement with patterico. Absolutely inappropriate by Tucker.

    whembly (ae0eb5)

  39. @30

    A modest proposal:

    Announce that, as of July 1, the federal mandate that Covid treatment be covered by insurance will sunset for those who remain unvaccinated.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/14/2021 @ 1:12 pm

    Absolutely the wrong tact.

    People will change their minds. Adding additional barriers will do nothing but harm the public.

    whembly (ae0eb5)

  40. Heck, I know the vaccine works because I tested my own immune system via an ELISA test.’

    ‘Heck’ all that means is you are confident it works for you.

    If you were around for the ’76 Swine Flu Snafu-when bad batches of vaccine got to the public- you might likely think twice– or be assured the FDA proctoring this w/good intent.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  41. 20.Tucker fills the role that Rush Limbaugh left empty.

    No.

    [Conserving electrons.]

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  42. Announce that, as of July 1, the federal mandate that Covid treatment be covered by insurance will sunset for those who remain unvaccinated.

    I still think “Liberty Camps” in central Alaska are the way to go.

    Dave (1bb933)

  43. Rush had a ceiling to his appeal on account of being a rural Heartlander; Tucker appeals to the bros who start out in Murray Hill and Lake View. Trump is also part of that glue that brought the city guys into the former party of Ned Flanders.

    urbanleftbehind (56f0af)

  44. OTOH, Canada and Trudeau are doing a terrible job and have an odd set of priorities.

    Doses given per 100,000 population in the Yukon and NW territories, which are almost entirely vacant: about 100,000.

    Doses given per 100,000 population in heavily populated Ontario: 23,000; Quebec 24,000; BC 22,000 and similarly in the other populated provinces.

    https://covid19tracker.ca/vaccinationtracker.html

    Apparently, the Inuit people and other hardy wilderness residents who usually keep 5 miles of separation and wear face coverings all winter are getting shots at 4 times the rate of city dwellers.

    Not sure I want Trudeau’s input on this at all.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  45. People will change their minds. Adding additional barriers will do nothing but harm the public.

    Oh, you still pay for the vaccinations. But I have little sympathy for irresponsible behavior and it is time government told people that liberty is a two-way street.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  46. Well, they say, there were a couple of stalls there that sold land animals. (who knows if that’s true?)

    Are bats land animals? They might be air animals.

    The Chinese government is pushing a theory: It was imported into China in frozen food.

    From someplace this didn’t start? Nice try, no wait, stupid try.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  47. I still think “Liberty Camps” in central Alaska are the way to go.

    What is it about the need to put people that you don’t like in camps? Ironically, you probably call them fascists.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  48. Currently, 21% of Americans claim they will never get the vaccine if they can avoid it

    I saw a post on Nextdoor that radical environmentalists are putting prions in the shots and no one will know until it’s too late. I was surprised they knew what a prion was.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  49. U.S. Vaccine Panel Opts Not to Vote on J&J Covid-19 Vaccine Clot Risk
    ……..
    The Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, or ACIP, said Wednesday it doesn’t have enough information yet about the risk of these unusual side effects to determine whether the vaccine should be continued, discontinued or recommended only for certain groups of the population.

    The ACIP expects to meet again in another week or two to revisit the issue. U.S. health officials on Tuesday recommended that use of the J&J vaccine be paused while they investigate.
    …….
    More than 7.2 million doses of the J&J vaccine have been administered in the U.S.; about 1.5 million of those doses went to women between ages 18 and 50 years.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  50. And the best part is, although I can’t find evidence of it, that you know he has been vaccinated. I’d bet a year’s salary on it. But it’s probably a closely guarded secret, because it might cut into his ratings if people found out.

    I’d bet that he cut in line to do it, too.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  51. @48: Sorry, Dave, that doesn’t read like I thought it did.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  52. A mask shouldn’t have a political party,’ says (MI) GOP leader who thinks he caught COVID-19 at Republican meeting

    Jason Watts (treasurer of the 6th District Republican Committee) said days after attending a Republican Party district meeting at a restaurant in Portage, he heard that several others at the meeting contracted COVID-19 and started feeling symptoms himself.

    Watts tested positive for COVID-19. Now, nearly two weeks after the meeting, he is recovering in a hospital after fighting the deadly virus. ……

    Watts said he was required to come to the March 31 meeting at Travelers Café and Pub in Portage, where officials were planning to consider a petition to remove him from office because he talked to the New York Times and gave comments critical of Donald Trump, saying the party needed to move on from the former president. …….

    Watts estimates there were six people he knows of who were positive for COVID-19 afterward, though he believes there are others. He spoke to some of them directly, he said. Some who tested positive later were seated at his table, he said. According to Watts, none of them knew they had the virus at the time.
    ……..
    “I was required to go,” Watts said. “There was no Zoom option.”
    …….
    “A mask shouldn’t have a political party,” Watts said. “A vaccine shouldn’t have a political party, but we’ve conjured these things to have these connotations. People are getting sick. And to put these connotations on these things does nobody any good.”
    >>>>>>>>>>
    Related:
    On Trump, Michigan Republicans Lean One Way: ‘Fealty at All Costs’
    …….
    “I almost feel like I’m a person without a home,” Mr. Watts said. “Because you can change the candidate, but until we’re willing to deal with ourselves as a party, we’re going to wallow in this defeat for a few cycles.”

    Mr. Watts also has a secret to reveal: He never voted for Mr. Trump, even as he helped organize more than 15,000 yard signs for the Republican ticket in the county. In 2016, he supported Gov. John Kasich of Ohio in the primary and the long-shot independent candidate Evan McMullin in the general election. This year, Mr. Watts voted for the Libertarian nominee — a silent expression of discomfort with the former president that he has made public only since the Capitol attack.
    ……
    “I just felt that if I muddled through, it was a brief storm that would pass,” Mr. Watts said. “But this undertone of hatred, this fealty at all costs, it’s going to damage us.”
    ………

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  53. There has never been a better time for a centrist party in my lifetime. There’s not a dime’s worth of sense in either party.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  54. Wait for the pill.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  55. At least Nick Fuentes and the folks at V-Dare, among other white nationalist luminaries, are waxing euphoric over Tucker’s endorsement of white replacement ideology. So he’s got that going for him.

    lurker (59504c)

  56. He’s just pandering to the fringier parts of his massive audience for ratings. Period.

    And you’ve given him the attention he wants: Trump 101.

    Period.

    Every time you criticize Joe Biden, DCSCA, you give attention to Joe Biden.

    Why are you such a sucker for Joe Biden?

    Patterico (e349ce)

  57. That’s it, exactly, lurker. Validation. From Trump on down, the whole Trump con is built on telling morons what they want to hear.

    But, you know, I was thinking. Darwin’s Law works in mysterious ways. Why can’t Tucker Carlson be one of its mechanisms for thinning the Marching Moron herd.

    nk (1d9030)

  58. Kevin M – the problem is the constituency for that centrist party is very, very small.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  59. Kevin M – three of my housemates and I went to an outdoor dinner last night. First time I’ve tried that since September. It was fantastic; at the time we went there was an empty table between each table with people at it, and there was lots of airflow. Much, much improved from the place I went in September.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  60. Tucker is a tool, and is creating his own cult following. It’s sad that my two best friends think Tucker is great.

    To be fair, Trudeau is a bit of a tool himself. Look at what he said:

    Vaccinations on their own are not enough to keep us safe, we need to engage in the right kind of behaviors. Do things that the conservatives aren’t always good at like wearing masks, keeping distances and obeying public health rules.

    He should have clarified that vaccines aren’t enough to keep us safe right now, that we need to wait until more people are vaccinated, and questions about variants have been resolved. Also, he shouldn’t have politicized it by making at dig at conservatives.

    norcal (01e272)

  61. I’m less bothered that Carlson says outrageous and false things, and more bothered that millions of Americans are purposely clicking to his show.

    Paul Montagu (26e0d1) — 4/14/2021 @ 6:28 pm

    Yeah, he doesn’t have ideas that attracted people to him. He found a market segment that already existed and sells them what they want to buy. He and Trump, both.

    nk (1d9030)

  62. @57. Apples & Oranges, P.

    Why spotlight the Swanson TeeVee dinner heir when his goose can be cooked at any time by his network overlords; flamed by his own heated rhetoric– or “folks” who can’t handle the program, can simply change the channel. And given his cable TeeVee gig history, it’s inevitable.

    OTOH, all Americans– including Fox TV viewers– and the rest of the world as well- are stuck w/President Plagiarist for at least four years– unless ‘The Joe Show’ gets cancelled by a higher power.

    “I argued that television was a volatile industry in which success and failure were determined week by week; Mr. Jensen does not like volatile industries and suggested with a certain sinister silkiness that volatility in business usually reflected bad management.” – Frank Hackett [Robert Duvall] ‘Network’ 1976

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  63. Tucker’s secret to success is coming up with twisted, novel takes that cause his viewers to think they’re gaining clever insights.

    norcal (01e272)

  64. He’s actually better at smoke and mirrors than Trump.

    norcal (01e272)

  65. No, it’s because they are concerned about variants and still-ongoing local spikes of cases.

    What definition of “work” are we using here? Because a virus that quickly mutates or has a lot of variations used to be the definition of one for which a vaccine wouldn’t work. It’s why vaccines aren’t a solution against the common cold, i.e. the common cold is a large family of viruses.

    So, it’s possible to say a given vaccine “works” against a particular strain but that isn’t how the term is commonly used. If a vaccine doesn’t keep you from getting what we’re calling COVID then it doesn’t work. At best this is really a question of effectiveness and probabilities but no really cares about that, e.g. we’re somewhere between works and doesn’t work. Making bold claims on either side is risky.

    frosty (f27e97)

  66. @65/66. Yet he knows he can fail so richly.

    What cable platform is left to conquer: Animal Planet, QVC–or TV Dinner Times on the Food Network?? Yum!! Tucka-in. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  67. Can someone explain why a vaccinated person needs to wear a mask. Are variants the only reason? Is some of it a monkey-see monkey-do thing where there is sort of a collective responsibility aspect to this? That is, we need to set a good example for the unvaccinated? Or is strictly because of unknown variants? I don’t quite follow all the reasons.

    JRH (52aed3)

  68. No variants needed, when the vaccine is only 70% effective on the known virus. Or even 90% like Moderna is claiming. One out of ten, or three out of ten, take your choice, can still get sick, and have milder symptoms but still grow enough of it to shed onto others. And we don’t know if we are that one or three out of ten.

    nk (1d9030)

  69. Personally, almost three weeks after my second shot, I still shun restaurants even for takeout, wear a mask and gloves, wipe down everything I bring home with chlorine bleach and change into inside clothes, and do a lot of hand-washing. I expect I’ll keep doing it until new cases of coronavirus in my area drop down to single digits.

    nk (1d9030)

  70. @67

    No, it’s because they are concerned about variants and still-ongoing local spikes of cases.

    What definition of “work” are we using here? Because a virus that quickly mutates or has a lot of variations used to be the definition of one for which a vaccine wouldn’t work. It’s why vaccines aren’t a solution against the common cold, i.e. the common cold is a large family of viruses.

    So, it’s possible to say a given vaccine “works” against a particular strain but that isn’t how the term is commonly used. If a vaccine doesn’t keep you from getting what we’re calling COVID then it doesn’t work. At best this is really a question of effectiveness and probabilities but no really cares about that, e.g. we’re somewhere between works and doesn’t work. Making bold claims on either side is risky.

    frosty (f27e97) — 4/14/2021 @ 9:03 pm

    The CDC just reported that about 5,800 vaccinated folks got re-infected, out of 66 million:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/cdc-identifies-small-group-of-covid-19-infections-among-fully-vaccinated-patients-11618490232?mod=hp_lead_pos7

    If I’m doing my math correctly, these so-called breakthrough cases represent 0.008% of the fully vaccinated population, of which the infection was MILD.

    The case for continuing mask mandates is getting weaker and weaker.

    whembly (ae0eb5)

  71. Can someone explain why a vaccinated person needs to wear a mask. Are variants the only reason? Is some of it a monkey-see monkey-do thing where there is sort of a collective responsibility aspect to this? That is, we need to set a good example for the unvaccinated? Or is strictly because of unknown variants? I don’t quite follow all the reasons.

    Vaccines keep you from getting sick, not getting infected. This isn’t new information.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  72. 70. nk (1d9030) — 4/15/2021 @ 7:10 am.

    One out of ten, or three out of ten, take your choice, can still get sick,

    Not necessarily get sick. Test positive.

    and have milder symptoms but still grow enough of it to shed onto others.

    Actually we don’t know that they can transmit it to others, and if they do, if the next person infected will likewise get a mild case.

    (Not for all cases that might follow. I think successive transmission most often result in each
    generation” getting a worse case because each successive new person infected was exposed to more virus, and that would explain how the virus can circulate for some time undetected.

    And we don’t know if we are that one or three out of ten.

    They don’t know, in fact if it can be transmitted, or, if so, for how long because they didn’t check for that in the clinical trial.

    Now one thought I had (because the effectiveness of the vaccine seemed to continue to rise with time after two or three weeks) is that because this was tested during an epidemic, vaccinated people got unnoticed booster shots” that raised their level of immunity above what it would be in the absence of an epidemic or a surge.

    One thing is clear: A single dose of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine produces stronger immunity than a single dose of the Johnson & Johnson or Astra Zeneca vaccines. So there is no reason to think that you have to give Johnson & Johnson to hard to reach people so they should just go ahead with substituting Pfizer or Moderna for J&J and not worry about the second shot. And if you worry the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine would be less effective because it has to be given within approximately 3 or 4 weeks, well they know, unofficially and logically from what happens with vaccines for other diseases that if you delay the second shot by months, it only improves the ultimate strength of the immunity. So just give out single doses of the other two vaccines.

    But that would be asking the CDC and the vaccination people to have too much sense.

    Sammy Finkelman (6975b4)

  73. whembly (ae0eb5) — 4/15/2021 @ 7:20 am

    The CDC just reported that about 5,800 vaccinated folks got re-infected, out of 66 million:

    5,800. Separately, The Wall Street Journal got a total of 4,172 breakthrough cases from twenty-three states.

    In Rhode Island, 290 people tested positive after becoming fully vaccinated, representing 0.13% of the state’s fully vaccinated population. They don’t say how long after the second dose.

    29% of the 5,800 or so breakthrough infections were asymptomatic and 7% of them (or about 400) were hospitalized and 74 people (or 1.275% of those who tested positive and around 18% of those hospitalized) have died. Of course prognosis varies depending on treatment.

    Approximately one in a million of those vaccinated against Covid have ultimately died of it so far.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/cdc-identifies-small-group-of-covid-19-infections-among-fully-vaccinated-patients-11618490232?mod=hp_lead_pos7

    If I’m doing my math correctly, these so-called breakthrough cases represent 0.008% of the fully vaccinated population, of which the infection was MILD.

    The case for continuing mask mandates is getting weaker and weaker.

    Sammy Finkelman (6975b4)

  74. Sorry, quoted too much. I thought I was at the bottom of the comment.

    Sammy Finkelman (6975b4)

  75. Kevin M – the problem is the constituency for that centrist party is very, very small.

    I very much doubt that. The ideologues on both sides are the narrow groups, but they form the base of each major party. It’s like abortion, where you have the nevers opposite the always and the bulk of the population is at maybe.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  76. He’s actually better at smoke and mirrors than Trump.

    He also remembers what he said yesterday.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  77. Can someone explain why a vaccinated person needs to wear a mask.

    Becasue if they don’t Typhoid Mary will falsely claim she’s been vaccinated.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  78. No variants needed, when the vaccine is only 70% effective on the known virus. Or even 90% like Moderna is claiming. One out of ten, or three out of ten, take your choice, can still get sick, and have milder symptoms but still grow enough of it to shed onto others. And we don’t know if we are that one or three out of ten.

    This isn’t actually the reason. Even if a vaccine is 90% effective in securing immunity, until enough people are vaccinated the disease can still spread. You need to both harden individual targets and harden the herd so that the statistical anomoly doesn’t impact others.

    Once you have 80% with 90% immunity (or even 70% immunity), the spread rate goes to zero pretty quick. Until then you have to use more direct measures.

    It is the people who won’t get immunized who are dragging this out. That they are the ones actually complaining about masks is ironic.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  79. I very much doubt that. The ideologues on both sides are the narrow groups, but they form the base of each major party.

    Although this may not be true of Trump supporters. There are a lot of drunkards in this country.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  80. The case for continuing mask mandates is getting weaker and weaker.

    As long as the herd is not immune, there are quite a few people who either have not been able to get vaccinate, or get little benefit from a vaccine (if your immune system is broken, a vaccine has nothing to work with).

    As I said, it is those who refuse to get the vaccine who are prolonging thins.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  81. Well, given the fact that Tucker started off the segment saying that he’s in no way saying vaccines don’t work, and that he trusted what we were told about these vaccines, what is currently being said seems a bit odd. How is asking a valid question about conflicting messages being irresponsible? It used to be standard for the media to question stuff like this.

    Daniel Hamby (28c4d3)

  82. Been a long time since I’ve been here—ever since our host got unhinged three or four years ago in Trump Derangement Syndrome. I don’t think Ol Patterico has recovered yet. Will come back in four or five years. While it’s true that stupid is forever, I don’t think that’s our host’s proble–and assume that time may cure him.

    Comanche Voter (ec29d0)

  83. @83 Yes, and Trump was sure to sprinkle in a “peaceful” on January 6th.

    norcal (01e272)

  84. Let me take a wild guess, Comanche Voter. You think the January 6th mob were people just pretending to be Trump supporters.

    norcal (01e272)

  85. “Been a long time since I’ve been here—ever since our host got unhinged three or four years ago in Trump Derangement Syndrome.”

    Nobody cares

    Davethulhu (6ba00b)

  86. In other words, Comanche Voter only reads people with whom he agrees.

    norcal (01e272)

  87. Anyone who goes into EVIL, HATEFUL, BEYOND THE PALE rhetoric over a segment of a talk show that could have been worded differently and not over the grotesque and unprecedented corporate takeovers (and corporate profiteering from) all aspects of the American economy and society over what amounts to a particularly bad seasonal Chinese flu has left the path of normal human social relations and normal human moral reasoning.

    Tucker Carlson serves his audience, Anthony Fauci serves only Anthony Fauci. If the various heads of the corporate health leviathan decided that their interests are best served by staying locked down for as long as possible, Anthony Fauci will adjust his rhetoric accordingly. Tucker Carlson will not.

    Destroying a massive economy over virus fears is always worse than saying mean things about the motivations of public statements from extremely partisan public officials. Those who maintain a public position otherwise deserve all the riots, cancellations, and opprobrium they get.

    Buffhand Sam (62e901)

  88. Tucker Carlson serves his audience

    He sure does.

    norcal (01e272)


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