Patterico's Pontifications

4/7/2021

United Airlines Trades Safety for Diversity and Social Justice

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



Does this seem like a good idea?

Social justice types told me on Twitter that this is not a problem, because it’s just a goal (quota) for the flight academy, not for hires. Everyone still has to pass the test! But my argument is not that people who can’t pass the tests will become pilots. It is that people who are minimally qualified, but not the best qualified, will become pilots. This is a trade-off: safety for social justice. Nothing the social justice warriors say can change that fact, and it makes flying on a United Airlines plane potentially more dangerous.

Being a woman or racial minority by itself is a not criterion that makes you more likely to be a skilled pilot with a strong safety record. If a good old boy system preferencing white males for their race or sex once existed, I am all for doing away with that — but not by preferencing a different race or sex. Race and/or sex should never be qualifications to be a pilot. It does not matter which race or sex you are favoring. Pilots, like brain surgeons and other occupations dealing with health and safety, ought to be peopled by the best qualified folks, period. I consider quotas immoral in all areas, but in these occupations they are dangerous as well.

61 Responses to “United Airlines Trades Safety for Diversity and Social Justice”

  1. Open discrimination.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  2. How would you do this? United approach is to try to increase the number of female/minority students.

    Being a woman or racial minority by itself is a not criterion that makes you more likely to be a skilled pilot with a strong safety record. If a good old boy system preferencing white males for their race or sex once existed, I am all for doing away with that — but not by preferencing a different race or sex.

    United doesn’t say they will lower standards. It doesn’t say they will pass unqualified students. It actually doesn’t say anything about how they will accomplish this. My assumption is they will increase recruitment targeted at women and minorities, maybe offer scholarships, maybe offer additional support to help reduce attrition. Your assumption seems to be that a major airline will compromise public safety. That’s strange since there are many other ways to meet their goal.

    Time123 (69b2fc)

  3. The old system used to draw from the military, which provided a lot of early training and experience. This tended to be male, and (less recently) white. That is changing/has changed in the military and will show up in the applicant pool. And the military still cares about ability.

    Then again, for most flights and modern planes, it doesn’t take Chuck Yeager to fly the thing and very few pilots of any gender or color can land a plane without hydraulics or put it down in the Hudson.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  4. united’s ceo is white

    resigning in deference to a minority ceo would be a much more powerful statement

    but the virtue signalers always carve out exceptions for themselves

    like the neighbor with BLM yard signs who chose to live in an all white gated community

    JF (6fcdbe)

  5. I know what my alma mater did in trying to be a hard-science school and not just be geeky guys. They observed that while the pool of qualified female applicants was much smaller than the male pool, there were more than enough to find a hundred young women each year. So they made a commitment to advertise the college as female-friendly and tried to attract those women already aimed towards the sciences who had the SATs and recommendations they typically expected. This worked and resulted in a balanced number of applications, allowing a balanced entering class.

    A few years later they tried this with blacks and Hispanics and it failed miserably. Just not a big enough pool of interested high school seniors.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  6. This will only go away when either Congress mandates that all racial discrimination is bad or a SCOTUS ruling.

    Until then…

    Affirmative actions like this one is here to stay.

    whembly (2900b2)

  7. like the neighbor with BLM yard signs who chose to live in an all white gated community

    Yes, a friend of my wife lives in a community with rules that keep out the economically less fortunate (e.g. 1 acre lot minimum), has 25MPH speed limits that make it unlikely that anyone will cross their town if they don’t have to, bans gas stations and chain stores to further lessen the attraction, and has recently made renting a room or back house for longer than 30 days illegal.

    She has a sign up saying that “No human is illegal.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  8. Affirmative actions like this one is here to stay.

    So, if I was a contractor and decided that English-speaking white males were not equitably represented in the trade union workforce (and could maybe prove that), it would be OK if I favored them in my hiring?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  9. BTW, does United have any government contracts?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  10. Affirmative actions like this one is here to stay.

    So, if I was a contractor and decided that English-speaking white males were not equitably represented in the trade union workforce (and could maybe prove that), it would be OK if I favored them in my hiring?

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/7/2021 @ 9:55 am

    No idea. Can you find a real example?

    Time123 (ea2b98)

  11. @8

    Affirmative actions like this one is here to stay.

    So, if I was a contractor and decided that English-speaking white males were not equitably represented in the trade union workforce (and could maybe prove that), it would be OK if I favored them in my hiring?

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/7/2021 @ 9:55 am

    I don’t know.

    I think SCOTUS has a case regarding racial preferences at Colleges.

    It should be illegal on the basis of the equal opportunity clause of the 14th amendment. But, the existence of racial/gender quotas belies that.

    whembly (2900b2)

  12. Well, now, like picking your seat, maybe picking your pilot’s gender and ethnicity will be an up-charge. Would it be racist or non-racist to want a black lesbian woman to fly me somewhere?

    Actually, diversity is fine….outreach is fine….but it does cause a smirk for an industry where there’s no substitute for talent and experience.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  13. Federal contractor affirmative action and related requirements
    In addition to your nondiscrimination requirements as a Federal contractor or subcontractor, you may also have the responsibility to take proactive “affirmative action” steps to recruit and advance qualified minorities, women, individuals with disabilities, and protected veterans. Whether or not your business is covered by these requirements depends on the type and dollar value of the Federal contract(s) or subcontract(s) you have, as well as the number of people you employ. You must develop an affirmative action program (AAP) if you have 50 or more employees and at least one contract of $50,000 or more, under Executive Order 11246 and Section 503 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973. You must also have an AAP under the Vietnam Era Veterans’ Readjustment Assistance Act (VEVRAA) if you have 50 or more employees and at least one contract of $150,000 or more.

    Please note that, as detailed below, construction contractors have different affirmative action requirements.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  14. Historically, the biggest impediment to minority hiring have been unions:

    ……First ordered by President Lyndon Johnson in 1965, the affirmative action plan—also known as the “Philadelphia Plan”—was criticized by union leaders, including George Meany, president of the AFL-CIO, who saw it both as an unfair attack on what he believed was a relatively marginal group in American society, and as a policy motivated by politics more than necessity. Recent labor historians have echoed this line, arguing that the Philadelphia Plan and other efforts to promote affirmative action in labor unions was merely a disguised way for conservatives and capitalists to defeat an important organization fighting for economic justice.
    ……..
    ……..[T]he truth was that labor unions did have a major civil rights problem in the 1960s that required affirmative action. As such, previous union resistance to civil rights initiatives bears as much responsibility as anything else for the eventual use of affirmative action, and for the consequences that came with such policies.
    ……….

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  15. Is there anything that actively prevents women and minorities from applying for these jobs? Is there active discrimination against women and minorities in the education and training for these jobs?

    My guess would be, no. So the question then becomes, why aren’t more women and minorities applying for and undergoing education and training for these jobs? My guess would be, because they don’t want these jobs.

    There’s nothing management can do about that.

    Look, teachers do not get to choose their students. Students may choose their teachers. Realtors do not get to choose their sellers or buyers. Sellers or buyers may choose their realtors.

    I’ve worked in both professions. And all I can say is, the bottom line is, you take each student, or seller or buyer, as they come. You try to do your best to improve their essential skills, as a teacher; and you try to do your best to arrive at a favorable deal, as a realtor, whether your client is a seller or a buyer.

    That’s just the way it is. As a teacher, you try to improve the essential skills of your students; as a realtor you try to make the best deal for your client. The teachers and realtors who do that are the most successful.

    It’s not for everybody. It’s not for anybody. It’s just for those who choose.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  16. ‘Being a woman or racial minority by itself is a not criterion that makes you more likely to be a skilled pilot with a strong safety record. If a good old boy system preferencing white males for their race or sex once existed, I am all for doing away with that — but not by preferencing a different race or sex. Race and/or sex should never be qualifications to be a pilot. It does not matter which race or sex you are favoring. Pilots, like brain surgeons and other occupations dealing with health and safety, ought to be peopled by the best qualified folks, period. I consider quotas immoral in all areas, but in these occupations they are dangerous as well.’

    Echoes of 1959 and the Mercury 13. Jerrie Cobb and the other FLATS would agree; as would Sally Ride, Eileen Collins… even 84 year old Valentina Tereshkova– who wasn’t a pilot herself. OTOH, the late WVa., born Chuck Yeager, WW2 ace, military test pilot and sound barrier breaker, who ran the test pilot program out at Edwards AFB in the ’60s, wasn’t keen on breaking social barriers for women- or negroes. It took a generation or two for the various aviation experience venues to open up for women and minorities.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_13

    Still, the age restrictions for pilots are essential,given human physiology– it is a perishable skill– unless you’d welcome the nightmare of having a 79 year old President Plagiarist-type at the controls of a full Boeing 787 Dreamliner you’re aboard. ‘Course in ’98, then 77 year old astronaut/payload specialist John Glenn wasn’t the pilot of STS-95 as he was when just 40 years old in control of Friendship 7 in ’62. Whenever meeting and chatting w/retired astronauts and test pilots, always ask them if they still fly themselves. Some did- [and died doing it, like Scott Crossfield]; some stopped for age/medical reasons; others, like Armstrong, found gliders/sailplanes an outlet.

    ___________

    United to train and hire more pilots, half must be female or POC

    ‘A pilot shortage at United and other major carriers will grow more severe in coming years, as large numbers of airline pilots approach the mandatory U.S. retirement age of 65. United Airlines says it will train 5,000 pilots this decade, including taking on applicants with no flying experience, and plans for half of them to be women or people of color.

    United will borrow an approach used elsewhere, notably at Germany’s Lufthansa, by taking people at the beginning of their flying careers and training them at its own academy, which it bought last year. United will continue to draw pilots from traditional sources such as the military, however.’
    source, https://www.gopusa.com/united-to-train-and-hire-more-pilots-half-must-be-female-or-poc/

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  17. Pat,

    I think this piece of logic makes a presupposition that I suspect is false. You assume that by choosing women/minorities they will be passing over MORE qualified white males. If there are an overabundance of highly qualified applicants, then this isn’t a problem.

    I believe they are looking to hire about 1000 pilots per year. If there are 2,000 highly qualified people for that job, 800 of which are women/minorities, then picking 500 women/minorities doesn’t necessarily sacrifice any safety at all. On the other hand, if there are 1,100 qualified applicants, of which 200 are so are clearly bottom tier, but are needed to get to the quota, yes we are sacrificing quality for diversity.

    nate_w (1f1d55)

  18. Gawain’s Ghost is absolutely right. Whenever there is a discrepancy between minority numbers in a particular field and their proportion of the population, the SJWs assume in knee-jerk fashion that the only possible reason could be active discrimination. Rarely is the possibility entertained that, for whatever reason, members of certain groups simply choose not to pursue such careers in greater numbers, and the “solution” becomes artificial engineering of society. For people who in other areas place such a premium on CHOICE, they assume (rather patronizingly, I think) that “underrepresented” groups are incapable of choice.

    Roger (e34354)

  19. Gawain’s Ghost is absolutely right. Whenever there is a discrepancy between minority numbers in a particular field and their proportion of the population, the SJWs assume in knee-jerk fashion that the only possible reason could be active discrimination. Rarely is the possibility entertained that, for whatever reason, members of certain groups simply choose not to pursue such careers in greater numbers, and the “solution” becomes artificial engineering of society. For people who in other areas place such a premium on CHOICE, they assume (rather patronizingly, I think) that “underrepresented” groups are incapable of choice.

    Roger (e34354) — 4/7/2021 @ 11:46 am

    This is an old argument for ignoring this type of issue. The other old one is ‘we can’t find qualified candidates’.

    Time after time it turns out that there were qualified candidates in under represented groups that wanted the opportunity, but for some inexplicable reason hadn’t been able to get in.

    Time123 (ea2b98)

  20. @18. That would be news to the Mercury 13.

    @19. OTOH, as with the Mercury 13- it was quite ‘explicable.’

    Just kept quiet.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  21. She has a sign up saying that “No human is illegal.”
    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/7/2021 @ 9:52 am

    That’s quite the virtue signal. I’d put that up there with the “Coexist” bumper stickers I find on Subaru SUVs that no poor minority can afford.

    Hoi Polloi (b28058)

  22. BTW, does United have any government contracts?
    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/7/2021 @ 9:55 am

    Kinda – any foreign government travel has to be done on a US-flagged plane, unless there is absolutely no choice but to use a foreign carrier. So they do benefit nicely from government personnel flying to/from the United States.

    Hoi Polloi (b28058)

  23. I am waiting for an NBA team to do some outreach and training to ensure their team meets the racial breakdown of the US. Get some white and Hispanic players out there on the court…

    Hoi Polloi (b28058)

  24. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/7/2021 @ 9:52 am

    She has a sign up saying that “No human is illegal.”

    Well, they don’t prohibit anyone from residing there based on birth or ancestry.

    Also, it’s one thing to exclude anyone from a neighborhood.

    It’s another thing to exclude anyone from 3,615,211 square miles, and prohibit them from working, too, except remotely.

    Sammy Finkelman (6975b4)

  25. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 4/7/2021 @ 11:18 am

    Is there anything that actively prevents women and minorities from applying for these jobs? Is there active discrimination against women and minorities in the education and training for these jobs?

    No, but outside of the military, learning how to fly and accumulating flying hours is expensive

    Also news about these opportunities mostly travels by word of mouth.

    The question is: So what if there are not so many female pilots?

    Sammy Finkelman (6975b4)

  26. I don’t know enough about the selection process of United’s flight academy to say if this will be useful or not. People do have unconscious biases. Frex, in the professional music industry they used to hire very very few women out of the audition process and the assumption was that women were just not as talented musicians as men. Later many orchestras introduced a “blind” audition process, in which the raters could not see the musician and the number of women being hired went up exponentially. It has also been shown that applicants get an increased number of calls for interviews if they remove racially identifying information from their resume. Maybe the various hiring committees had deliberately decided they weren’t hiring women or minorities, but I think it’s more likely that there were some unconscious biases in play. It’s possible that there are biases in the current selection process at United that they are trying to fix.

    However, yes, the way the announced it is certainly virtue signalling. Also they should be paying their regional airline pilots more.

    @Kevin@8 Male nurses are explicitly recruited for the medical industry.

    Nic (896fdf)

  27. Medical schools and law schools at this time fairly equally male/female. What are the current ratios in pilot training?

    Fred (d109df)

  28. I completely agree. The “good old boy” discriminatory practice, no doubt, resulted in minimumly qualified hires as well. This compromised everyone’s safety. Out with all quotas. Only the best-qualified should be hired in such mission-critical positions.

    felipe (484255)

  29. @26, good examples. thank you

    Time123 (7cca75)

  30. @Time@29 Every now and then the information stuck in my brain from having had to read a gazillion sociological studies is useful. :)

    Nic (896fdf)

  31. Companies are about their futures. Milton Friedman’s free market capitalism esoteric drivel is shoved aside by reality politics. Right wing posturing like what they are doing in georgia is no real threat to corporations as they still support free market capitalism. The left and militant minorities do not and will gut capitalism if it crosses them. They fear AOC and liz warren not mitch mcconnel or georgia republicans.

    asset (d20832)

  32. I am waiting for an NBA team to do some outreach and training to ensure their team meets the racial breakdown of the US. Get some white and Hispanic players out there on the court…

    You have to think bigger than that. The NBA is now worldwide, with 23% of its players being born outside of the U.S. So given that China, India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Indonesia together comprise over 43% of the world’s population, it’s a hate crime of extraordinary vileness that players of Asian descent account for only 0.4% of all NBA players this season, and that number has been cut by half in just one year! Until the NBA stops this blatant discrimination against Asians and Asian-Americans, I can’t bring myself to support the league.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  33. JVW, do I have a global sport for you. Professionals from around the world and both men and women participate. Plus, given the realities of the sport none of the stars seem to think they’re morally superior to anyone.

    Time123 (7cca75)

  34. @26. Well, they’re apparently using Lufthansa as a model. Might be worth checking into their parameters and quota system- at least for women and/or any immigrants to Deutschland over the years since unification. ‘Course it won’t have a high population density of blacks. But applicants, hires and subsequent performance numbers would be interesting to compare and review.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  35. 9.BTW, does United have any government contracts?

    They likely have some contracting w/t USPS or such to move some percentage of the mail or freight. You’d have to look it up but many air carriers have some kind of deal– no point in flying partially full cargo holds given fuel costs.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  36. JVW, do I have a global sport for you.

    Didn’t the late Arizona Senator John McCain once refer to the sport as human cockfighting?

    Seriously, I haven’t been able to get into that spectacle, though I do note that it appears to have broad appeal across racial/gender/class lines, as you point out. I used to enjoy watching boxing before big money and sleazy promoters (and I’m talking about after the Mafia relinquished control) took it over, and I’ve always enjoyed wrestling, both the Olympic versions of the sport and the versions involving folding chairs and championship belts. But I just can’t reconcile myself to UFC.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  37. Actually, w/respect to aviation, less concerned about ‘quotas’ than with the boredom creep increasingly automated ‘glass cockpits’ create which unintentionally numbs, if not degrades, the hands on skill set you’d like to know experienced, traditional ‘stick-and-rudder’ pilots crave.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  38. @36, McCain was being complimentary. 😀

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  39. No idea. Can you find a real example?

    Any non-union contractor in Southern California, New Mexico, Arizona or most of Texas would have no problem providing you with an example. Government/union jobs are mostly white, but then they insist on US-legal pretty fiercely.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  40. I’ll take a wild guess that being “minimally qualified” as a pilot for a major airline like United means the same as being “minimally qualified” as a concert pianist for the New York Philharmonic. I.e., “perfectly qualified”. But it’s just a guess.

    That other stuff, as long as their hiring practices pass muster under the Equal Employment Opportunity Act (the Fourteenth Amendment has nothing to do with it), they should be allowed to pander to any market segment they want any way they want, and “social justice” is as good a strategy as any that Madison Avenue might think up.

    nk (1d9030)

  41. My guess would be, no. So the question then becomes, why aren’t more women and minorities applying for and undergoing education and training for these jobs?

    The answer can be more complex. Women may like the idea of being a pilot, but may not like what they view as a testosterone-based culture.

    In the college case I mentioned above, there were always women who wanted to enter the sciences or engineering, but most women feared being the lone woman in a male environment (although some reveled in it). When several STEM colleges started trying to attract women, they did so by attacking that perception, mostly by hiring more female faculty in the core programs. Women had always taught in the humanities and other non-core positions, but having one or two female chemists or mathematicians or such made it more attractive and something that could be shown in photos.

    When you are looking to grab many of the available candidates, rather than change your standards, it’s called “recruiting”, not Affirmative Action. Of course this only works if not everyone is doing it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  42. @Kevin@8 Male nurses are explicitly recruited for the medical industry.

    Yes. See @5.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  43. Of course, given time, things can change. Most STEM schools are no longer 98% male as they were in the 70’s, and although 50/50 isn’t common, 65/35 is.

    Once this happens the factors that get women to choose other careers evaporate and the recruiters ahve a much easier time of it. By 2050 female pilots may be as common as female lawyers (something that wasn’t so when I was born).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  44. It is a mistake, however, to assume that a process that works well with gender will work well with ethnicity.

    Women are 50% of the population. Women also are well distributed educationally, culturally and financially. They have pretty much equal opportunity in choosing goals. Women MAY choose goals differently, but the careers that are closed to them are few (NFL player comes to mind).

    So, the natural barriers to recruiting are minimal. This isn’t true for ethic minorities, who often suffer disproportionately from disadvantages that are hard to correct in adulthood.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  45. @40. There are quotas– and there are quotes; as ol’aviator Alan Shepard liked to quip:

    “There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots. But there are no old bold pilots.”

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  46. @41. Women may like the idea of being a pilot, but may not like what they view as a testosterone-based culture.

    That would have been news to Amelia Earhart– and the Mercury 13. Surprisingly peculiar to American culture, as well. During WW2 the WAFS,WASPS, etc., were indispensable, too. It’s an interesting aspect of aviation history.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_aviation

    ‘Today women’s participation in the aviation sector is still low, but growing. As of 2010, just over 7% of certified civilian pilots (both private and commercial) in the United States were women. As of July 2014, approximately 5.12% of certified airline or commercial pilots in the United States are women.’-source, wikibarrelroll

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  47. @10

    Affirmative actions like this one is here to stay.

    So, if I was a contractor and decided that English-speaking white males were not equitably represented in the trade union workforce (and could maybe prove that), it would be OK if I favored them in my hiring?

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 4/7/2021 @ 9:55 am

    No idea. Can you find a real example?

    Here’s an easy one and I can imagine many cities are like this.

    St. Louis City is a majority black city and as such their committees are stacked with African American politicians. That, in itself, isn’t the problem.

    The problem arises from the committee when they provide oversight to the public-private enterprises such as Gas, Electric and Sewer companies. The city raises money for new capital projects for these entities, and they stipulate that all contractors/subcontracts must be at least 50% African American owned in order to win those bids.

    For those who decry institutional racism or white privilege, they also work furiously to ignore this situation.

    Time123 (ea2b98) — 4/7/2021 @ 9:59 am

    whembly (ae0eb5)

  48. It is like Zimbabwe. Anyone can be a farmer if you just give them the land.
    Put them in the cockpit… anyone can do it.

    steveg (02d731)

  49. That would have been news to Amelia Earhart

    Way to bring up an exception to try to disprove a rule. And I said that there were exceptions. Grace Hoppers have always been there, but until recently women were not generally attracted to many pursuits.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  50. @47: Check out a DMV office in Los Angeles some time.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  51. @49. ‘Until recently’???

    Plenty of exceptions; Jackie Cochran; the Mercury 13; Amelia was just an easy one. Look ’em up. What you project is essentially peculiar to American culture from a transitional era. Eileen Collins could tell you that. The late Sally Ride as well. Poppy Northcutt, too… And of course, NASA mathematicians Katherine Johnson, Dorothy Vaughan and Mary Jackson were quite accomplished; just ‘hidden figures’ in their time due to social barriers of the period. These days my own niece is a young engineer– and had no problems being attracted to nor pursuing that career path.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  52. DCSCA

    You either cannot understand my point or you persist in ignoring it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  53. Milton Friedman’s free market capitalism esoteric drivel is shoved aside by reality politics.

    asset (d20832) — 4/7/2021 @ 1:37 pm

    You may not understand him, but that doesn’t make him wrong. Friedman was acutely aware of the relationship between capitalism and freedom, and knew the real source of prosperity. (Hint: It wasn’t some bureaucrat attempting to manage the economy and foreign trade so that everything is “fair”. That approach is fool’s gold.)

    norcal (01e272)

  54. Women face sexism in the work place. Janet guthrie, shawna robinson, sarah fisher, nicole behar, gracie trotter and especially bridget burgess have faced sexism when they have tried to find rides in racing. Simona desilvesto was second in points in indy car and could not get sponsorship or a ride for the next indy car race. No woman could get an indy car ride in 2000. Danica Patrick and hailie deegan Won races and forced their way into indy car and nascar racing. As for african-americans look up what happened to wendell scott. Bubba wallace still has to fight prejudice today. They will try and wreck you if you are a woman in a “mans” sport.

    asset (f8c5c0)

  55. @53 I understand uncle miltys greed is good all to well. Capitalism does just fine where their is little are no freedom. For the capitalists. The children from central america coming here from el salvador, guatamala and honduras. Not many from nicuraga. Why? They were able to fight off ollie north and the drug dealing contras and reagan and bush could not install drug dealing government which is capitalism at its most basic. Ask any drug dealer free enterpriser.

    asset (f8c5c0)

  56. 52. Your ‘until recently’ as a POV is self-explanatory, K.

    ____

    @53. ‘… but that doesn’t make him wrong.’

    Except he was. Stockman knew it. So did Pappy Bush. And we live with the flotsam and wreckage nd deep doo-doo of his voodoo economics and how much he didn’t know today.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  57. @55. Ahhhh, ‘the sweet smell of success;’ capitalism’s fertilizer: Reaganomics. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  58. asset (f8c5c0) — 4/7/2021 @ 11:51 pm

    The children from central america coming here from el salvador, guatamala and honduras. Not many from nicuraga. Why?

    Maybe no gangs, and no tradition of migration.

    MS-13 by the way, was created by deporting gang members from Los Angeles, who weren’t born in the United States, but had grown up and become criminals there and had not become citizens. When some came back, some found other places to go to than Los Angeles.

    Sammy Finkelman (6975b4)

  59. 59, the jefe of El Salvador is a strange cat, in the olden days, his sub-ethnicity alone would make this more apropos in the Yemeni border crosser thread.

    https://news.yahoo.com/ap-sources-el-salvador-president-160022260.html

    He is said to use migrants or threat thereof to leverage development dollars. I could live with his approach against the gangs, though.

    urbanleftbehind (72289a)

  60. The notion that United Airlines is trading safety for diversity and social justice is complete nonsense!
    Has it not occurred to you that minimally qualified and best qualified might be the same thing. It all depends on the supply of experienced pilots in the labor market. The days of surplus high time government trained ex military pilots are long gone. In fact, the military is trying its hardest to keep the ones they have. Did you also not notice that the tweet says “That’s why we plan for 50% of the 5,000 pilots we train in the next decade to be women or people of color.” It’s a plan that doesn’t say anything about hiring standards. The key point is that this is an ab initio flight training program like that used by many airlines throughout the world. You are implying without proof that upon completion of the program there will be different hiring standards at United Airlines for women and people of color. I see no indication students are even guaranteed a job at United. There are a lot of places they can fail along the way. United is trying to get ahead of the game by creating a pool of experienced pilots to hire from. You can rail against social justice all you want, but the accusation that United Airlines is trading safety for diversity and social justice is false.

    Step 1

    Fund your training
    PROGRAM COSTS AND FINANCIAL ASSISTANCE
    Program costs

    Private pilot training – $17,750 FREE
    Instrument rating – $18,250
    Commercial SE initial – $26,000
    Commercial ME add-on – $7,500
    Certified flight instructor – $7,500
    Certified flight instructor (instrument) – $5,500
    Multi engine flight instructor – $6,500
    Total – $89,000 $71,250
    Costs shouldn’t be a barrier

    We want to ensure a career as a pilot for United is possible for the best candidates, regardless of financial background. As part of our commitment to removing barriers, we launched major initiatives to help get you one step closer to flying the friendly skies.

    We pay for your Private Pilot License

    If you don’t have a Private Pilot License (PPL) and are accepted into United Aviate Academy, we’ll cover the cost (~$17,750 value).

    United is partnering with these organization to offer you scholarships:

    Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals
    Sisters of the Skys
    Latino Pilots Association
    Professional Asian Pilots Association
    These scholarships were made possible by $2.4M in generous contributions from:

    United
    $1.2M
    Chase
    $1.2M
    In addition, loans will be available from our loan partner, Sallie Mae. Details will be forthcoming.

    Financial aid is available exclusively for students at United Aviate Academy. You’ll be able to apply for scholarships and loans once you are accepted.

    Step 2

    Start your training
    GO FROM ZERO FLIGHT HOURS TO GETTING YOUR PRIVATE PILOT LICENSE IN TWO MONTHS
    At United Aviate Academy, we provide the best flight training to prepare you for a safe and successful career as a pilot at United. You will be expected to commit to a full-time intensive course of study and flight activity a minimum of 5 days a week. Our innovative training program integrates:

    Computer-based instruction
    Ground training
    Aircraft flight training
    Once you get your Private Pilot License, you’re ready to interview for Aviate, United’s industry-leading pilot career development program.

    Step 3

    Interview for Aviate
    GAIN MORE VISIBILITY AND DIRECTION OVER YOUR CAREER TOWARD UNITED
    Now you’re ready to interview for Aviate, the most innovative pilot career development program in the industry.

    When you join Aviate, you’ll gain access to:

    A direct path to United — Aviate participants transition to United as a First Officer upon successful completion of the Aviate program and hiring requirements
    Travel privileges — Aviate participants enjoy travel privileges to hundreds of United destinations
    Coaching — Aviate participants are paired with United pilots, creating a structured format for critical leadership and career development
    Development events and programs — Aviate participants are provided a breadth of resources to learn and grow throughout Aviate

    Step 4

    Finish your pilot training in 10 months
    GAIN YOUR RATINGS AND CERTIFICATES
    Congratulations! At this step, you have now been accepted into the Aviate program. To fly for United, you’ll need to complete your flight training and earn your ratings and certificates:

    Instrument rating – 2 months
    Commercial SE initial – 3 months
    Commercial ME add-on – 1 month
    Certified flight instructor – 2 months
    Certified flight instructor (instrument) – 1 month
    Multi engine flight instructor – 1 month

    Step5

    Join an Aviate partner and build your flight hours — 18 months
    SECURE EMPLOYMENT AT ONE OF OUR AVIATE PARTNERS AS A CFI OR COMMERCIAL PILOT
    Great news — you’ve officially completed your flight training at United Aviate Academy. What’s next? You’ll need to work toward your ATP hour requirement and gain valuable experience instructing as a CFI at United Aviate Academy or one of our Aviate partner schools, or as a commercial pilot at one of our Part 135 operators.

    Partner universities
    Elizabeth City State University
    Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University
    Florida Tech
    University of North Dakota
    Western Michigan University
    Partner flight schools
    ATP
    FlightSafety Academy
    Hillsboro Aero Academy
    Lufthansa Aviation Training
    US Aviation Academy
    Part 135 operators
    Ameriflight
    Boutique Air

    Step 6

    Congrats, pilot! Start flying for United Express — 2 years
    GET EXCITED — IT’S A LOT OF FLYING!
    Gain invaluable experience flying with one of our United Express Aviate partners, which include:

    Air Wisconsin – Airlines
    CommutAir
    Mesa Airlines
    Build your credentials: minimum service requirements of 24 months and 2,000 flight hours for First Officers, or 1,500 flight hours for Captains, with a United Express Aviate partner.

    Step 7

    And finally, transition to a pilot career for United Airlines
    YOU’VE MADE IT TO YOUR DREAM CAREER
    Once you complete your minimum transition requirements with United Express, you’ll be eligible to transition to United as a First Officer
    You are also required to have a bachelor’s degree by the time you transition unless you receive an exemption from United
    When a First Officer position opens with United and you’re at the top of the priority list, you’ll receive a job offer
    Once you join United as a First Officer, begin your dream career toward the left seat in the flight deck as a United Captain

    Purple Haze (848fb6)

  61. What do you call a person who graduated at the bottom of flight school? Captain.

    norcal (01e272)

Leave a Reply

Comment moderation is enabled. Your comment may take some time to appear.


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 0.2718 secs.