Patterico's Pontifications

2/25/2021

About That “Perceived Rift” In The Republican Party…

Filed under: General — Dana @ 2:18 pm



[guest post by Dana]

Despite Sen. Rick Scott’s efforts to unite the GOP by brushing away any perceived rift in the Republican Party, the fact remains that there is a very real rift within the Party. Let’s look at three recent indicators that confirm that the Party is beset by internal feuding. These also serve to pinpoint the biggest part of the problem. And his name starts with a T.

First up is Sen. Marjorie Taylor Greene, who keeps it pithy and blunt:

If the Republican Party wants to regain its standing as a viable, unified party that continues to value longheld principles and values, fealty to a past-president embroiled in lawsuits and payback after trying to upturn a legitimate election and foster an attempted insurrection isn’t helping to reach achieve that end. In fact, Greene seems hellbent on provoking fellow-members as much as she can with her continued fealty to Trump, as well as her public support of an individual known for spreading baseless conspiracy theories and calling herself a “proud Islamaphobe”:

Meanwhile, Rep. Fred Upton, who was previously censured for voting to impeach Trump after the Jan. 6 melee, put a fine point on just how wide the divide is as he relates how he was treated by his local House district GOP after voting to remove Greene from the education committee:

Whaaat??? If the Cass County GOP doesn’t consider Greene’s comments “out of line with anyone else’s comments” and are right about that, then that tells you pretty much all you need to know about the group.

And then there’s that ballsy pesk, Rep. Liz I-have-a-backbone-and-am-not-afraid-to-use-it Cheney, who is now being pressured by the House Freedom Caucus to step down from her leadership position because once again, she revealed said backbone:

I know. Pretty horrible, right?? How dare she!

The fallout:

The chair of the conservative House Freedom Caucus is urging Rep. Liz Cheney to step down from her position as the number three House Republican in leadership over her latest critical comments of former President Donald Trump.

“She should step down,” Rep. Andy Biggs of Arizona told reporters on Thursday.

And Rep. Chip Roy of Texas, another House Freedom Caucus member, said Cheney has “forfeited her right to be chair of the Republican Caucus.”

Biggs, a major Trump supporter, said Cheney’s Wednesday comments were “outrageous” but “consistent with at least four other statements she’s made in the last few weeks.” And he emphasized that he doesn’t believe “she is able to carry out” her House GOP leadership responsibilities “any further.”

“I also think she is absolutely devoid of any kind of political reading of what’s going on in the party,” he added. “If she any sense of shame, she would step down.”

Roy called Cheney’s latest comments “completely out of step with the Republican conference.”

Did Rep. Chip Roy forgot that he supported Cheney after her impeachment vote last month:

Rep. Chip Roy (R-Texas) also rejected calls for Cheney to step down even though they differed on impeachment. “Liz should be commended, not condemned, for standing up in defense of the Constitution and standing true to her beliefs,” he said.

So, what’s changed for him?

While it’s still unclear how things will shake out in the Party, it’s clear that the rift is more than just perceived. It’s very much alive. Clearly, the Cheneys and Uptons of the Party are parked beside Mitt Romney in that “tiny wing of the Republican party” that he identified yesterday.

–Dana

72 Responses to “About That “Perceived Rift” In The Republican Party…”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (fd537d)

  2. “@RepLizCheney: “That’s up to CPAC….I don’t believe that he should be playing a role in the future of the party or the country.”

    I know. Pretty horrible, right?? How dare she!

    How dare she, indeed; conservative neocon whine; bitter dregs:

    Inside the Beltway: GOP voters still want Trump in ‘major role’

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/jan/27/inside-the-beltway-gop-voters-still-want-trump-in-/

    A new poll from Morning Consult/Politico found that among Republican voters, 81% had a positive view of former President Donald Trump. And about half said he should play a major role in the future of the party.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  3. Tim Miller has some words about Mr. Roy, who sometimes makes reasonable-sounding noises but generally goose-steps with Trump. Roy’s not in the Fascist Wing because he didn’t sign onto the AG Paxton suit and didn’t object on 1/6, so that leaves him in the Coward Caucus.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  4. Also, I’ve added to the post that Chip Roy supported Cheney after her vote to impeach Trump in January. What changed?

    Dana (fd537d)

  5. House Freedom Caucus

    An oxymoron in text, and reality. This is the GOP group most responsible for the continuation of Obamacare, by insisting on repeal or bust. As in most things they got involved with, they got bust.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  6. I wonder what their position will be after Trump is tried and convicted for his actions Jan 6th. I’m pretty sure that Biden’s base will insist.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  7. I wonder what their position will be after Trump is tried and convicted for his actions Jan 6th.

    LOL! Will never happen.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  8. It’s kind of funny that Fred Upton, a fiscal dove and not exactly a government reformer, finds Trump a line he cannot cross. What’s sad is all the more “principled” conservatives who have no problem with that.

    Next time a politician talks principles and not policy, ethics and not legislation, I’m gonna tune them out. Trump has exposed one thing: Politicians are all tools for someone, and I’ll look for those that are tools for me.

    I find it hilarious, btw, that people who despise the GOP for supporting Trump somehow find the Democrats “honest” because they oppose him. If Jesus was an Republican they would oppose Him, too.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  9. LOL! Will never happen.

    Why? The GOP is not in charge. Or do you think that Trump is innocent?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  10. BTW, Marjorie Taylor Greene may be a feature of left-side donation letters but she is no more the GOP than AOC is the Democrats.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  11. by insisting on repeal or bust.

    No, they insisted the only option was repeal and bust.

    If you keep promising an improved thing, but the only solution you propose is a worse thing, then you’re kinda betting on bust. Of course they knew the initiative was going to fail, so why bother to figure out the “improved” solution.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  12. WASHINGTON (Reuters) – The United States on Thursday carried out an airstrike in Syria against a structure belonging to what it said were Iran-backed militia, two officials told Reuters.

    The officials, speaking on the condition of anonymity, said the strike was approved by President Joe Biden.”

    Get the hell out of the Middle East. Where’s the vaccine? Where’s the $2,000 checks–or is it $1,400, Scranton Boy?

    _____

    President Plagiarist

    [ ] – brain-damaged

    [ ] – brain-dead

    Choose.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  13. @6. We won’t put ex-POTUS’s in the pokie. Bad look.

    Putin wouldn’t smile.

    He’d guffaw.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  14. LOL! Will never happen.

    Why? The GOP is not in charge. Or do you think that Trump is innocent?

    If you are speaking of an incitement conviction, I do think that is highly unlikely.

    Prosecutors would face clear challenges in bringing any case, according to former prosecutors and experts.

    Tom Firestone, a lawyer with Baker & McKenzie LLP and former assistant U.S. attorney in New York, said prosecutors would have to consider several factors, including whether Mr. Trump was engaged in constitutionally protected political speech or instead crossed a line that prompted supporters to commit violence. “If you look at his speech, there’s evidence that both sides could use,” said Mr. Firestone, who spent 14 years with the Justice Department.

    Other important considerations would include Mr. Trump’s intent, what he knew about his supporters’ intentions, and whether the attack on the Capitol was reasonably foreseeable under the circumstances. “I think all of these factors would make it a difficult prosecution, though not an impossible one,” Mr. Firestone said.
    ……
    Michael Sherwin, the acting U.S. attorney in Washington, last month said the Justice Department was looking “at all actors” connected to the riot. Another department official said a day later that the government didn’t expect to bring cases against people for making speeches at the rally on the Ellipse near the White House that preceded the Capitol attack. ……
    …..

    Now taxes, insurance and bank fraud, bring it on.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  15. The GOP’s choice in 2024: Trump Ultra, Trump Lite or Trump Zero
    ……
    “There isn’t a Trump lane. There’s a Trump Turnpike with multiple lanes and multiple people,” said Chris LaCivita, a veteran GOP strategist who most recently headed the anti-Biden super PAC Preserve America.

    Conversations with more than a dozen Republican consultants, strategists and officials depict a party over which Trump exerts an irresistible gravitational pull, pointing to his continued strength in polls and the megawatt energy he generates among the GOP grassroots.

    Trump’s grip on the Republican base and his effect on the minds of White House hopefuls is so total, they say, that the path to the GOP nomination is best defined by the degree of loyalty to Trump — to the point where party operatives reach for elaborate metaphors to best convey the extent of his influence.
    …….
    Trump Ultra
    ……..
    A key metric for senators and representatives who expect to occupy this lane: opposition to the Jan. 6 certification of the Electoral College results that officially made him the loser and that led to the storming of the Capitol by a pro-Trump mob. That puts Texas Sen. Ted Cruz, Missouri Sen. Josh Hawley and Florida Sen. Rick Scott — all CPAC speakers — squarely in the Trump Ultra camp.

    Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, whose stock is rising rapidly in the national party, will open the conference with welcoming remarks. He sports sterling MAGA credential for his Trumpist handling of Covid and status as governor of Trump’s newly adopted home state — which the former president won twice. To this day, DeSantis refuses to publicly acknowledge that President Joe Biden was legitimately elected.

    DeSantis isn’t the only governor in this category: South Dakota’s Kristi Noem, another CPAC speaker, is a dark horse candidate. ……
    …….
    Trump Lite
    ……..
    In the case of former Vice President Mike Pence, who was unceasingly loyal to Trump for more than four years, it was his refusal to reject the Electoral College certification when he presided over the vote. ……

    Arkansas Sen. Tom Cotton, a leading voice in criticizing China — one of Trump’s signature issues — is in the same situation after voting to accept the Electoral College results. So is Florida Sen. Marco Rubio………

    Trump’s former United Nations ambassador, former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley, recently stepped out of the full Trump lane by making critical comments about her onetime boss and was promptly snubbed by the former president when she requested an audience with him at Mar-a-Lago.
    …….
    “About 75 percent of Republican (South Carolina) primary voters said supporting Donald Trump is a requirement for office. Again: a requirement. It’s absolutely astonishing,” (South Carolina GOP strategist Wesley) Donehue said.
    …….
    Trump Zero
    ……….
    The problem is the (Trump Zero) lane might be so small that it’s not much of a path at all, said David Kochel, a longtime GOP strategist from first-in-the-nation Iowa who counts Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan and Nebraska Sen. Ben Sasse among this group.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  16. Rip I read that the first time you posted it, and probably the second time you posted it. I still disagree with it.

    1) A DC jury
    2) Trump hires incompetent lawyers
    3) The arguments Firestone presents were thoroughly debunked in the House manager’s presentation.

    Trump brought an army to DC. There is no doubt he wanted them there. Once there, he exhorted them to forcefully interfere with the electoral vote count. I think incitement is the low end of charges he should face. He waged war on the US Government.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  17. As for frame of mind, people who were near Trump (and Secret Service members can be subpoenaed) have stated that he thought it was wonderful what the crowd was doing, and did not understand why some thought it a bad thing.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  18. It would seem that getting rid of Trump requires more than simply destroying the Republican Party. You have to destroy America, too. Henry II had it right.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  19. And in the meantime the leftists who run the House passed a bill that’s a direct assault on Christianity.

    NJRob (4e6ddd)

  20. Senate Parliamentarian tags and bags $15 minimum wage in Covid bill; So Swampy Joe, whaddya know, you just seduced, suckered, betrayed and peed on more lower and middle classers vaudeville show.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  21. “ And in the meantime the leftists who run the House passed a bill that’s a direct assault on Christianity.”

    – NJRob

    Someone should amount a Free Exercise challenge posthaste. The Legislature should not be allowed to assault Christianity.

    Leviticus (e55b21)

  22. The suburbs are next.

    nk (1d9030)

  23. I’ll say this about Trump. His policies excluded them, LGBT???? I mean, but he personally did not demonize them, the way the Georgia hill hoyden and so many others of her ilk are doing.

    nk (1d9030)

  24. The suburbs are next.

    Where have you been?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  25. LGBT

    As far as employment is considered, it’s the “T” that’s the issue. Pretty sure “Hooters” doesn’t want guys in dresses serving their customers. The slope is getting more slippery. Hey, I don’t have a real problem with plural marriage among the consenting. But how many years before pedophilia is OK?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  26. Leviticus, the 1st Amendment is a God given right. Turning your back on Him is never a good idea. Stop encouraging people to play dress up. Encourage them to accept truth instead.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  27. “But how many years before pedophilia is OK?”

    Pedophilia has never been less legal or acceptable than it is now.

    Davethulhu (6ba00b)

  28. The rift is between 15 % of the party who are never trumpers, economic libertarian conservatives neo-cons (who have mostly left for democrat warmonger biden/clinton wing of democrat party) and wealthy donor class/chamber of commerce sell outs to communist china. The other 85% are populists. The 74,000,000 trump voters don’t want you back.

    asset (c3de9a)

  29. A direct assault on Christianity? I am, as always, surprised to learn that Jesus’ principal mission in his time on earth was to establish and defend a gender binary.

    Victor (4959fb)

  30. @25 IDK, there are quite a few men out there into futa (don’t look it up, you’ll be sorry if you do).

    @27 This. It’s only been maybe 20-30 years since the age of consent in some states was 14.

    Nic (896fdf)

  31. Here’s the thing, and this really is the thing. Realistically, Republicans only make up around 27% of the electorate. Democrats have a slightly higher share, around 29%. Independents have a much higher share, anywhere between 35% and 40%. The rest of the electorate is comprised of Libertarians and various other small third party groups, most of which are not registered in all 50 states.

    Therefore, no candidate from either major party can win an election without a majority of Independent voters. It’s simple math.

    So it really doesn’t matter how high Trump’s approval within the party is. Even if it’s as his as 85%, which I doubt, 85% of 27% isn’t going to win an election.

    That’s what Republican leaders fail to grasp. Trump never expanded his base, didn’t even try. What he did was alienate a whole lot of Independents, and it cost him the election. How else do you explain losing to Biden by 7 million votes? That’s the widest margin of victory in history, by the way.

    Trump’s approval rating nationwide is currently in the low 20s. It will probably be lower after CPAC this weekend.

    None of this bodes well for the Republicans kowtowing to Trump. They do so because they fear his rabid cult. Also because they know Trump has tens of millions in his PACs and joint Super PAC with the RNC, which he fully intends to use to fund rallies, make contributions to his loyalists and to opponents of those he considers disloyal in the primaries. But it’s a shortsighted strategy.

    I doubt DC will prosecute Trump of inciting the siege on the Capitol. They certainly should but they won’t, because it would be extremely difficult, almost impossible to convict him. Instead, they’ll let the states do the dirty work for them, mainly because there’s no presidential pardon for convictions in state courts.

    Now that he’s out of office and no longer enjoys the protections of the presidency, Trump is in serious legal peril, as are members of his family. Several states are are pursuing multiple investigations–New York (one by the Manhattan DA, who has the tax and financial records, another by the state AG), New Jersey, Georgia, Florida (by the Palm Beach Condominium Owners Association), and DC. I probably forgot one or two, but he’s facing very serious charges.

    Overvaluing properties for the purpose of obtaining loans, then undervaluing those properties for the purpose of lowing or avoiding taxes is a felony. Besides tax fraud, there’s also bank and wire fraud, violations of campaign finance law, illegal campaign contributions, and fraudulent business practices. The Georgia AG is investigating the phone call in which he tried to coerce Raffensperger to “find” or create enough fake votes so he could claim he won an election he lost. I don’t know what Palm Beach is investigating him for, but I would guess falsifying valuation to lower property taxes, but it could be for violating association rules. He’s also facing several civil lawsuits, one by his own niece, for defamation. Finally, and this may be the death knell, he has a balloon note for hundreds of millions in loans he owes to foreign banks and lenders which is due within two years.

    That’s a hell of a legal quagmire to find yourself stuck in, and given the pitiful performance of the only lawyers who would agree to represent him in the impeachment trial (that had a foregone conclusion), I doubt he will prevail in very many of them. These will be criminal trials with citizen jurors, not political theater before Senate suck-ups.

    Who’s he going to find to represent him in all these trials, Giuliani? Um, he’s under investigation too and may well be disbarred. Any lawyer who would agree to represent him, and we’re talking about several lawyers in multiple states, is going to charge a high fee and require a large contingency payment upfront, given Trump’s penchant for not paying his bills. (That’s why the five lawyers who were supposed to represent him in the impeachment trial walked the weekend before the trial began–they weren’t getting paid.)

    And where is he going to get the money to pay for all this? He can’t use his PAC money. His properties are losing money. No bank is going to give him a loan, not anymore. If you know how to calculate net worth–Net Worth = (Income + Assets) – (Debts + Liabilities)–he’s not a billionaire. His debts and liabilities exceed his income and assets! He’s on the verge of bankruptcy, for the fifth time.

    What’s happening now is that these Republicans are trying to feed off the anger of his cult base over the election loss, in the hope it will help them win the mid-terms. Yeah, well, we’ll see how that works out in the coming months and next few years, when these state prosecutions and civil lawsuits are tried in court.

    All these Trumpublicans are doing is further solidifying the Democrats and alienating the Independents. That’s a recipe for political failure. They’re practically begging to lose. What will they say after they get clobbered in the midterm elections? What will they say before the next presidential election, when Trump in on trial in multiple states? That this is still his party?

    These people who pretend that Trump is the presumptive nominee for 2024 are delusional. You can’t run a presidential campaign from a courtroom. And no judge is going to grant him a continuance so he can hold a rally.

    It’s over. The Trumpublicans just don’t want to admit it, just like they refuse to acknowledge that Biden won the election. That attitude will cost them dearly.

    There’s not a “rift” in the Republican party, there’s a chasm. It’s between those who want to return to conservative principles–Cheney, Romney, Kinzinger, and a few others–and those who want to be relegated to minority status for a generation.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  32. What exactly does the GOP want to do? For the first time in 40 years, I have no idea what the party is prioritizing….and who is providing the leadership. The GOP has regressed to sixth grade….and it’s all about who likes or who has been mean to Donald Trump…..and if January 6th or the Georgia phone call comes up, just stick your fingers in your ears and scream “lalalalalala….I don’t hear you!”

    If this sanctioning, censuring, and primarying is any indication…the GOP has most definitely become a death cult….standing only for what Trump says and orders. Gone is the big tent that was open to all sorts of Republicans….and in comes the wall separating the true-believers from the heretics and apostates. The GOP doesn’t talk policy any more…or rule of law…it talks conspiracies…..and tortured rationalizations about Trump. All we have is fevered angst about immigrants, trade, Muslims, and how the country doesn’t look or feel the same….and how Trump gives voice to all of this. January 6th shows where all this ends. The 1st amendment is sacrosanct up until you have to actually let someone with a dissenting view speak. The barbarians want to burn everything down without having any idea about what to replace it with…..rage, rage, rage…..where’s the pushback? Where’s the conservative response to poorly reasoned and reactionary populism? There’s no one with the courage to stand up and make the case against this insanity? I hope GaGh’s prognostication holds….because the GOP needs some help….

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  33. @25 IDK, there are quite a few men out there into futa (don’t look it up, you’ll be sorry if you do).

    Far out there. Like 5,500 miles across the Pacific.

    And men are not the biggest market for hentai anywhere in the world, anyway. It’s teenage boys. Whose hormones are raging so much that they’d stick it in a woodpile on the chance there was a snake in it. That’s when and why they’re vulnerable to pederasts dressed up as women some of whom you see in the news as having been beaten up or killed because they misjudged their prey.

    nk (1d9030)

  34. “…people who despise the GOP for supporting Trump somehow find the Democrats “honest” because they oppose him.”
    Uh, since Jan. 6 I’ve come to despise the main body of the GOP for its overwhelming support of a serial liar and insurrectionist, yet neither do I find the Democrats “honest.” What’s not honest is painting everything in binary terms. Or can’t you walk and chew gum at the same time?

    Roger (e34354)

  35. GG:

    As one who has been waiting for that moment when Trump stands revealed to all his followers as the villain he is AND having such followers suddenly realize “OMG, he really is awful!!”, I have grown to accept that all the things in your comment might happen and may even be likely to happen. It also might never happen. It hasn’t yet. It isn’t happening today.

    When trying to prognosticate, it best to assume tomorrow will be much like today. Great change may happen — but probably won’t. People’s minds may suddenly let go of that thing that has convinced them that darkness is best. Maybe someday. We all do crave the light. But we all have our habits.

    So, Trump is likely with us for some time to come. His skill at getting out of the trouble he makes for himself has proven good. The folks who try to bring him to account haven’t succeeded. Maybe the prosecution in New York or the prosecution in Georgia gets him. Don’t count on it. A political person should act under the assumption he will remain free until the day he eats his final Big Mac.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  36. What exactly does the GOP want to do? For the first time in 40 years, I have no idea what the party is prioritizing….and who is providing the leadership. The GOP has regressed to sixth grade….and it’s all about who likes or who has been mean to Donald Trump…..and if January 6th or the Georgia phone call comes up, just stick your fingers in your ears and scream “lalalalalala….I don’t hear you!”

    If this sanctioning, censuring, and primarying is any indication…the GOP has most definitely become a death cult….standing only for what Trump says and orders. Gone is the big tent that was open to all sorts of Republicans….and in comes the wall separating the true-believers from the heretics and apostates. The GOP doesn’t talk policy any more…or rule of law…it talks conspiracies…..and tortured rationalizations about Trump. All we have is fevered angst about immigrants, trade, Muslims, and how the country doesn’t look or feel the same….and how Trump gives voice to all of this. January 6th shows where all this ends. The 1st amendment is sacrosanct up until you have to actually let someone with a dissenting view speak. The barbarians want to burn everything down without having any idea about what to replace it with…..rage, rage, rage…..where’s the pushback? Where’s the conservative response to poorly reasoned and reactionary populism? There’s no one with the courage to stand up and make the case against this insanity? I hope GaGh’s prognostication holds….because the GOP needs some help….

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25) — 2/26/2021 @ 5:41 am

    This continues to explain what i see. Also, it’s from the National Review, so it’s the right trying to explain itself.

    a gigantic rude gesture directed at the commanding heights of American culture….Trump is the only way for his voters to say to the cultural Left, “No, sorry, you’ve gone too far.”…Trump is, for better or worse, the foremost symbol of resistance to the overwhelming woke cultural tide that has swept along the media, academia, corporate America, Hollywood, professional sports, the big foundations, and almost everything in between.

    He’s the vessel for registering opposition to everything from the 1619 Project to social media’s attempted suppression of the Hunter Biden story. To put it in blunt terms, for many people, he’s the only middle finger available — to brandish against the people who’ve assumed they have the whip hand in American culture.

    Time123 (797615)

  37. And in the meantime the leftists who run the House passed a bill that’s a direct assault on Christianity.

    NJRob (4e6ddd) — 2/25/2021 @ 6:21 pm

    Don’t know what you’re talking about. Got more info?

    Time123 (235fc4)

  38. To continue on my #35 — the conservative media has become one big feedback loop. FoxOneAmericaNewsmax knows its watchers want Trump praise, more Trump praise, and OMG Biden. There is nothing these guys do that lets their viewers know there is a world of decent people out there that don’t see it the way they do.

    What breaks the spell? I don’t know. Something could. (A New York conviction is the best hope for that.)

    Appalled (1a17de)

  39. To continue on my #35 — the conservative media has become one big feedback loop. FoxOneAmericaNewsmax knows its watchers want Trump praise, more Trump praise, and OMG Biden. There is nothing these guys do that lets their viewers know there is a world of decent people out there that don’t see it the way they do.

    What breaks the spell? I don’t know. Something could. (A New York conviction is the best hope for that.)

    Appalled (1a17de) — 2/26/2021 @ 6:29 am

    They sell outrage. They will continue to sell outrage.

    Time123 (235fc4)

  40. @29. “For there are eunuchs who were born that way; others were made that way by men; and still others live like eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it.”

    Gender not so simple even in Jesus’s day.

    JRH (52aed3)

  41. LGBT

    As far as employment is considered, it’s the “T” that’s the issue. Pretty sure “Hooters” doesn’t want guys in dresses serving their customers. The slope is getting more slippery. Hey, I don’t have a real problem with plural marriage among the consenting. But how many years before pedophilia is OK?

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/25/2021 @ 9:20 pm

    You can’t name a single bad result that has come from normalizing homosexuality or legalizing gay marriage. Your arguments against it continue to be a slippery slope.

    Time123 (797615)

  42. Dang, that passage from Jesus himself sounds like the foundation for the modern day Incel-F—boy-Himbo-Simp matrix (found that one out from my daughter). Attain, not-Attains women and Respects/ Doesnt Respect women are the axes.

    urbanleftbehind (98cb45)

  43. Castration is a pagan and Christian practice. It is forbidden both in Islam and Judaism. For people and for animals.

    The infamous eunuchs of the Ottoman era were marketed by Coptic Christians (and they were treated with greater kindness and lenity for lesser infractions by their Muslim masters than uncastrated slaves). The less said about the Catholic Popes’ castrati choirs the better.

    nk (1d9030)

  44. Well, Appalled, I get where your coming from. So does Mary Trump, who said that Donald has been getting away with playing fast and loose with the rules for decades and getting away with it. But at some point anyone’s, everyone’s, luck runs out.

    The difference this time around is that the Manhattan DA has his tax and financial records going back several years, a decade I believe. Those documents were not available to prosecutors in previous cases against him. And since the Supreme Court ordered the release of those documents, in a 7-2 decision, it is highly likely that prosecutors in other jurisdictions will have access to them as well before too long.

    Tick tock, tick tock, drip drop, drip drop. It’s only a matter of time before the full extent of Trump’s fraud and corruption is exposed to the world. Don’t you remember the old song, “I fought the law and the law won”? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OgtQj8O92eI

    Even the smart criminals get caught eventually. What was it they put Al Capone in Alcatraz for? Oh, that’s right, tax evasion.

    Trump is not a smart criminal. In fact, he’s rather stupid. He’s just been lucky, because his father hired a smart accountant who knew how to exploit loopholes. Oh, and Weisselberg can be subpoenaed by every court prosecuting Trump, as can Cohen and all his other corrupt cohorts.

    I’m just wondering where Trump is going to get the money to pay for all the lawyers to defend him in these multiple state prosecutions and civil lawsuits. One lawyer cannot possibly be in multiple states at the same time. No, he’s going to need a fleet of attorneys. And how many lawyers are going to agree to take Trump on as a client without a huge contingency fee paid upfront?

    Everyone is looking at this in the present moment and past history. They’re not looking at the big picture. Trump doesn’t have the money. He’ll have even less money, once the fees and fines come due after he’s convicted in the civil lawsuits for defamation.

    Several of the charges he’s facing in the state prosecutions require prison time upon conviction. While it is true that no former president has ever been sentenced to prison, Trump has broken every norm in the book, so perhaps this will be the last norm he breaks.

    I’m just saying that the more the Republican party ties itself to Trump, the farther down he will drag them. It’s over. It’s all over but the crying.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  45. The difference this time around is that the Manhattan DA has his tax and financial records going back several years, a decade I believe. Those documents were not available to prosecutors in previous cases against him. And since the Supreme Court ordered the release of those documents, in a 7-2 decision, it is highly likely that prosecutors in other jurisdictions will have access to them as well before too long.

    From what I’ve read the NY DA already had Trump’s tax returns. The federal are included with the sate filing. What they want are the communications between trump and his accounting firms that can help establish intent.

    Time123 (235fc4)

  46. Not only will there be a tremendous amount of kissing Trump’s ass at CPAC, which will be a competition as to who is the Trumpiest Trumpist of them all, attendees will also have the opportunity to bow down and worship the Golden Jackass.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  47. bow down and worship the Golden Jackass.

    Liz Cheney? A natural blonde, no doubt.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  48. The rift is between 15 % of the party who are never trumpers, economic libertarian conservatives neo-cons

    The other 40% left already.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  49. It’s so cartoonish, I find it hard ton believe that it’s for real, from actual friends of Trump.

    nk (1d9030)

  50. You can’t name a single bad result that has come from normalizing homosexuality or legalizing gay marriage.

    I was publicly supporting gay marriage 15 years ago. That does not mean that the slippery slope argument has proven wrong. The idea that businesses must hire trans employees for any job, even when it is quite clear that it does not make business sense for them to do so, is a clear outcome of normalizing the gay lifestyle. And if you normalize this, by the argument of the beard, there will be further behavior that seeks normality.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  51. which will be a competition as to who is the Trumpiest Trumpist of them all

    The hallmark of a fringe-seeking third-party. THe good news is that this leaves increasing room for a new major party.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  52. There are major differences in the gay marriage situation and the trans-employment one. First, marriage isn’t (usually) transitory. Gays cannot marry as straights and find happiness. It is more compelling as a right than interracial marriage, as people can find happiness with someone of their own race, however painful individual situations might be.

    Employment has traditionally required employees to honor the needs of the employer while at work, and no great harm comes from requiring a dress code, and behavior, that will further those goals. If one employer is too strict, there are other employers.

    To compare these two things, as the trans activists tend to do, is dishonest.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  53. You can’t name a single bad result that has come from normalizing homosexuality or legalizing gay marriage.

    I was publicly supporting gay marriage 15 years ago. That does not mean that the slippery slope argument has proven wrong. The idea that businesses must hire trans employees for any job, even when it is quite clear that it does not make business sense for them to do so, is a clear outcome of normalizing the gay lifestyle. And if you normalize this, by the argument of the beard, there will be further behavior that seeks normality.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/26/2021 @ 8:11 am

    1. You can’t prove a slippery slope won’t happened, just that it hasn’t happened yet.
    2. Hooters and similar companies are selling sex as well as beer, that’s how they avoid having to hire men, or women who don’t fit the look. Looking a certain way is part of the job like lifting a box is part of working in a warehouse.
    3. If the further behavior has actual harms we can talk about not doing it. If it doesn’t, let it rip!

    Time123 (797615)

  54. Men sued Hooters before this. Give them an actual law….

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  55. If the further behavior has actual harms we can talk about not doing it. If it doesn’t, let it rip!

    Now, there’s an interesting question. Does a society or a culture have a right to insist on mores, even if there is no obvious harm in their violation?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  56. The GOP has regressed to sixth grade….and it’s all about who likes or who has been mean to Donald Trump….. If this sanctioning, censuring, and primarying is any indication…the GOP has most definitely become a death cult….standing only for what Trump says and orders.

    One of Trump’s most obvious attributes is an extraordinarily self-centered understanding of right and wrong. He evidently can’t grasp how something done for his benefit — e.g. the Capitol riot — might be wrong, or how something that hurts his ego — e.g. losing an election — could be morally acceptable.

    Most Republicans either failed to see the obvious, or decided there’s nothing wrong with such conspicuous selfishness at the highest level of power. Then they went further, and made Trump’s own moral code into the defining principle of the GOP:
    What’s agreeable to Donald J. Trump is good. What’s displeasing to Donald J. Trump is very bad.

    It’s the weirdest thing I’ve seen on that scale in American politics.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  57. Well, maybe not Donald Trump, but there are certainly other Trumps that the Republican Party is considering for 2024. This from Mark Meadows, telling Hannity about Sunday’s C-PAC plans:

    We will see the start of planning for the next administration and I can tell you, the people that are at the top of that list, all of them have Trump as their last name

    Dana (fd537d)

  58. You can’t name a single bad result that has come from normalizing homosexuality or legalizing gay marriage. Your arguments against it continue to be a slippery slope.

    Time123 (797615) — 2/26/2021 @ 6:56 am

    Marriage rates have plummeted since.

    Christian businesses have been repeatedly targeted.

    Christian adoption centers have been attacked and banned in places.

    But nah, nothing bad has happened.

    Not to mention the harm done to the culture at large .

    NJRob (917fb7)

  59. You can’t name a single bad result that has come from normalizing homosexuality or legalizing gay marriage. Your arguments against it continue to be a slippery slope.

    Time123 (797615) — 2/26/2021 @ 6:56 am

    Marriage rates have plummeted since.

    Christian businesses have been repeatedly targeted.

    Christian adoption centers have been attacked and banned in places.

    But nah, nothing bad has happened.

    Not to mention the harm done to the culture at large .

    NJRob (917fb7) — 2/26/2021 @ 8:56 am

    You think the normalization of gay marriage is why marriage rates have been declining? What do you suggest as a cause and effect relationship?

    Time123 (797615)

  60. If the further behavior has actual harms we can talk about not doing it. If it doesn’t, let it rip!

    Now, there’s an interesting question. Does a society or a culture have a right to insist on mores, even if there is no obvious harm in their violation?

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/26/2021 @ 8:41 am

    Culture can do what it wants. It’s legal to use racial slurs all you want but if you use them at a friend’s party you might not get invited back. (Based on previous comments you don’t seem like someone with racist friends.)

    Legally, No. If I’m not harming anyone else I have the right to live my life as a please.

    Time123 (797615)

  61. How to tell your Representative is a Nazi.
    1. She’s one of the fascists who objected to certified popular votes on January 6th.
    2. She approvingly paraphrased Hitler after her fascist vote.
    3. Her husband is a Three Percenter, a group that attended the infamous Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  62. that’s how they avoid having to hire men, or women who don’t fit the look. Looking a certain way is part of the job

    Time123 (797615)

    Are you assuming that “You have to look a certain way for the job” would withstand all “equal opportunity” complaints? Rejecting a woman without the desired attributes may not raise controversy, but rejecting a trans “woman” who doesn’t fit the look might prompt a lawsuit. Same with other protected groups.

    Remember the controversy awhile back involving Abercrombie & Fitch? The company hired a young woman in hijab and had her working in the backroom, and she sued because they didn’t give her a position in the front. She claimed religious discrimination. Abercrombie argued that her hijab was at odds with their image, and she refused to remove it. Abercrombie lost.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  63. NJRob: “Marriage rates have plummeted since.”

    Well if you mean from the early ’80’s onward….maybe….I guess people 40 years ago were just so put out of joint by even the possibility of gay marriage, that they were proactively avoiding the institution. Oh, and please disregard the increase in marriage rate in Massachusetts over this past decade….obviously that must be a statistical anomaly unrelated to gay marriage.

    https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/republicans/2020/4/marriage-rate-blog-test

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  64. NJRob: “Marriage rates have plummeted since.”

    Also, divorce rates plunge as well.

    Divorce in America has been falling fast in recent years, and it just hit a record low in 2019. For every 1,000 marriages in the last year, only 14.9 ended in divorce, according to the newly released American Community Survey data from the Census Bureau. This is the lowest rate we have seen in 50 years. It is even slightly lower than 1970, when 15 marriages ended in divorce per 1,000 marriages.

    A lower divorce rate means longer marriages. According to the new Census data, the median duration of current marriages in the U.S. has increased almost one year in the recent decade, from 19 years in 2010 to 19.8 years in 2019.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  65. CK, Don’t cloud the issue with complicated facts. 😉

    Time123 (53ef45)

  66. that’s how they avoid having to hire men, or women who don’t fit the look. Looking a certain way is part of the job

    Time123 (797615)

    Are you assuming that “You have to look a certain way for the job” would withstand all “equal opportunity” complaints? Rejecting a woman without the desired attributes may not raise controversy, but rejecting a trans “woman” who doesn’t fit the look might prompt a lawsuit. Same with other protected groups.

    Remember the controversy awhile back involving Abercrombie & Fitch? The company hired a young woman in hijab and had her working in the backroom, and she sued because they didn’t give her a position in the front. She claimed religious discrimination. Abercrombie argued that her hijab was at odds with their image, and she refused to remove it. Abercrombie lost.

    Radegunda (20775b) — 2/26/2021 @ 9:55 am

    I remember that case.

    Time123 (53ef45)

  67. To this day, DeSantis refuses to publicly acknowledge that President Joe Biden was legitimately elected.

    Lindsey Graham did, and still plays golf with Trump.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-sen-lindsey-graham-on-face-the-nation-february-7-2021

    MARGARET BRENNAN: You’ve known the Biden family for years. Have you spoken to the president since inauguration?

    SEN. GRAHAM: No, I haven’t. Congratulations to- to him. He’s the legitimate president.,,

    Sammy Finkelman (c95a5a)

  68. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 2/25/2021 @ 6:16 pm:

    I defer to your legal experience.

    Rip Murdock (9ff85d)

  69. NJRob (917fb7) — 2/26/2021 @ 8:56 am

    Another list of assertions devoid of proof.

    Rip Murdock (9ff85d)

  70. Rip,

    with all the links you spam, I figure you could’ve read anything that’s from a nonleftist perspective the past few years. But I guess not.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  71. I listened to the video of Roy’s chatisement of Cheney and came away with the impression that GOP leadership had a conversation about putting on a unified front regarding Trump and felt they had come to a consensus agreement which Cheney immediately and very publically broke. 74M people voted for Trump and I’d guess that over 99% of them would vote for him if an election vs. Biden and Harris.

    Sort of like an ecumenical council head being adamantly against including anyone other than episcoplians and after a vote of the council to retain all christians, the leader make a public statement to the opposite. She’s entitled to her opinion and her narrow view but she should quit her position on the council

    steveg (43b7a5)

  72. Therefore, no candidate from either major party can win an election without a majority of Independent voters. It’s simple math.

    Mitt Romney says “hello.” He also won white women and middle income voters. Didn’t matter; Obama still spanked him.

    Trump increased his share of minority voters from 2016, but lost because white people with college degrees, who mostly live in the suburbs and urban areas, overwhelmingly went for Biden. They did so because that economic class has been a status-chasing demographic for decades, and voting Democrat is a cultural status marker at this time. Especially for middle-aged Gen-Xers who, for all their long-held pretense about how cynical they are about “the system,” have been a generation of bandwagon-hoppers for years simply because their limited numbers prevents them from driving the cultural zeitgeist.

    Counting on independent voters to push you over the top doesn’t take into account how ethnically and economically balkanized this country is now. Going forward, absent some existential foreign conflict, the winner will be whoever offers the voters the biggest bribe.

    Factory Working Orphan (f916e7)


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