Patterico's Pontifications

2/17/2021

Los Angeles Times Editorial Board to LAUSD: No More Excuses, No More Delays

Filed under: General — Dana @ 12:20 pm



[guest post by Dana]

When even the Los Angeles Times says it’s time to re-open the schools…:

Schools have been reopening across the country for months now, illustrating that students can return to classrooms with little risk if the proper precautions have been taken. This is especially true of elementary schools, as younger children have been far less likely to be sickened with COVID-19 or to infect others. Reopened schools have not caused infections to surge in outlying communities.

Yet Los Angeles Unified schools — along with many other public schools statewide — have remained closed. Supt. Austin Beutner, who has been struggling with a teachers union unwilling to send educators back into classrooms, couldn’t have opened the schools anyway because the county’s infection rate was too high to meet the state’s stringent standards. But this week, that rate fell to the point where it is officially safe for all elementary schools in the county to open.

And yet Beutner, who is still embroiled in talks with the United Teachers Los Angeles, has no immediate plans to reopen.

There are no more excuses. Further delay is unacceptable.

According to the report, Beutner has been working hard to make sure that mitigation efforts are in place. This includes upgraded air filtration systems, testing and tracing protocols for staff and students, as well recommended CDC protocols being followed. Despite CDC Director Rochelle Walensky saying that it is not necessary for all teachers to be vaccinated before returning to the classroom, Beutner is working toward that goal, saying:

“We know a critical part of re-opening school classrooms will be creating the safest possible school environment. And that includes providing vaccinations to all who work in schools.”

The editorial also addresses the all-powerful teachers union in Los Angeles:

It’s not easy to go against UTLA…But at this point, the superintendent needs to put on his big-boy pants, reopen schools and demand that teachers return or risk their jobs. Union leaders in turn need to realize that not only are students done a tremendous disservice by the continued closures, but most parents vehemently want their kids back in the classroom. The union is jeopardizing its own popularity if it continues to put the needs of students and families last.

Yesterday, Politico published a report about California’s Gov. Newsom’s efforts to get the state’s schools re-opened for in-person learning:

Gov. Gavin Newsom conceded Tuesday that he has not yet struck a school reopening deal with legislators and school groups after having said it could arrive last week.

“We are making progress and it is stubborn, the negotiation, and we continue to negotiate,” Newsom said, adding that “on schools, we still have more work to do.”

“We need to get our schools safely reopened for kindergarten through sixth grade. We can do that safely,” he said on Tuesday.

The sticking point:

Vaccinations remain a key stumbling block. Teachers unions have fought for educators to have access to vaccines as a precondition for in-person learning. Newsom has argued that goal is unrealistic given finite supply and has pointed to Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidance saying it is safe for schools to reopen prior to full staff inoculation.

To be clear, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), Rochelle Walensky:

“I’m a strong advocate of teachers receiving their vaccinations, but we don’t believe it’s a prerequisite for reopening schools,” Walensky said, adding that CDC guidance stipulated that states should allow those at higher risk of serious COVID-19 infections to remain home for virtual learning until they can be vaccinated.

“We have in the guidance clear language that specifies that teachers that are at higher risk…teachers and students that are higher risk, and their families, should have options for virtual activities, virtual learning, virtual teaching,” she said.

And from Kim Anderson, head of the National Education Association:

Educators are no different [from other front-line workers], and educators need to be prioritized, not only so that we can get safely back to in-person learning as quickly as possible, but so we can see students and thus, their families, safe as well.

You can read a round-up of President Biden and his administration’s varying statements on re-opening of schools here.

I’ve come to believe that the ubiquitous catchphrase “follow the science” is little more than a political football that both sides of the aisle regularly deploy when they want to sound authoritative about their current flavor-of-the-week cause and reject when it doesn’t further their purposes. And because there is always a human element and vested interest involved with the “science,” the phrase is diminished to where it has little meaning or impact on the populace.

–Dana

50 Responses to “Los Angeles Times Editorial Board to LAUSD: No More Excuses, No More Delays”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (fd537d)

  2. Here in the Bluegrass State, something like 160 out of 171 public school districts have been open for in-person classes, but Fayette County (Lexington), the Commonwealth’s second largest, is not. They were, supposedly, going to reopen today, for K through 2, but the ice storms prevented that. And now they’re claiming a shortage of school bus drivers and cafeteria workers.

    Yet somehow, some way, the private and parochial schools managed to open.

    The dumbest thing? After Governor Andy Beshear (D-KY) ordered all the schools closed before Thanksgiving, he allowed the state high school football playoffs to continue. You aren’t wearing a medical facemask when you play football, and ‘social distancing’ doesn’t happen.

    Fayette County schools, still closed to in-person instruction, ’cause it’s too dangerous, are playing basketball now.

    The Dana in Kentucky (c3b452)

  3. Yet somehow, some way, the private and parochial schools managed to open.

    I don’t know about Kentucky, but in California, K-5 schools in populated areas have around 26-30 students per class, with a 700-800 student body population. When compared to private school populations, it poses a much bigger obstacle with regard to social distancing and classroom size.

    Dana (fd537d)

  4. The much nicer Dana wrote:

    I don’t know about Kentucky, but in California, K-5 schools in populated areas have around 26-30 students per class, with a 700-800 student body population. When compared to private school populations, it poses a much bigger obstacle with regard to social distancing and classroom size.

    At least in the parochial schools my daughters attended, in Virginia, Delaware and Pennsylvania, the class sizes were larger, and the classrooms no bigger. In Delaware, where the good people of Wilmington/New Castle County, including one Joseph R Biden,¹ pretty much destroyed the public schools rather than comply with a judge’s desegregation order, and the private schools were not just full, but had waiting lists as well.
    _____________________________________
    ¹ – Yet Mr Biden’s own children weren’t in the public schools, but attended tony Archmere Academy, his alma mater.

    The Dana in Kentucky (c3b452)

  5. It’s amazing what a change of scenery in the White House will do…

    Hoi Polloi (15cfac)

  6. 1. Kids are gross, class rooms aren’t sanitary, and teachers usually get sick the beginning of every school year. I understand their concern.
    2. We need to get schools open asap.

    Time123 (457a1d)

  7. Beutner and UTLA probably negotiated and signed an MOU last summer or fall when the conditions were different and now he has to renegotiate it if he wants to reopen, so he probably can’t give any dates to reopen yet.

    If they fire the teachers they won’t be able to fill the positions. I’m not kidding. There are not enough certified teachers in CA to fill the current open positions. We have several staff on intern credentials (must be in a program and credential within 2 years) because we couldn’t find a certified teacher to take the position and it’s even hard to fill paraprofessional positions sometimes.

    The vaccinations are in fact the stumbling block. Put a vaccine in my staff’s arm and they’d be willing to have kids back in their classrooms on Monday.

    Nic (896fdf)

  8. In cities with elected school boards, as opposed to, say, mayoral control, it is much much harder to get schools reopened.

    The elections apparently have mostly people voting who are interested in the outcome, and aware of the candidates, or who believe people who are interested in the outcome. Too little money is probably spent on these campaigns.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/14/us/chicago-mayor-lori-lightfoot-on-what-she-learned-from-battling-the-teachers-union.html

    I have used the word “feisty” to describe the Chicago Teachers Union. You might choose other words. How would you describe the role that C.T.U. plays and its history?

    Let me put it in a context of labor across the city. We have relationships with over 40 [organized labor] units. We have labor peace with almost every single one, except for two. The Fraternal Order of Police, which has a lot of right-wing Trump aspirations, and the Chicago Teachers Union. When you have unions that have other aspirations beyond being a union, and maybe being something akin to a political party, then there’s always going to be conflict.

    The teachers’ union might say that its larger aspirations are to increase funding for schools and to achieve goals like police reform so students are not criminalized.

    I’m not going to speculate about what their motivations are, but I don’t believe that’s correct. I mean, if you look at their spending, there’s a real clear indication of what their larger ambitions are.

    Which are what?

    I think, ultimately, they’d like to take over not only Chicago Public Schools, but take over running the city government. That’ll play itself out over time. I don’t really spend time, and certainly not in the middle of a pandemic, worrying about the politics. But politics intrudes, always.

    I have noticed that some big cities with mayoral control of schools are open or moving toward concrete reopening plans. And some big cities with school boards, like Los Angeles or San Francisco or Seattle, seem stuck. In the past, you supported bringing back an elected school board. Where do you stand on that now?

    We would never have opened without mayoral control. It’s quite clear. The fact that L.A. and San Francisco had to sue to force the conversation about reopening? Look, what’s easy, the path of least resistance, the political expediency, would have been to do nothing and just let the unions dictate what the state of play was going to be in education. That’s never, ever going to be the path that I take.

    For a lot of families, it will be frustrating that this deal paves the way to only part-time school. And also that high-school students are not yet scheduled to return to classrooms at all.

    I’m very focused on reopening high schools. High schools are more complicated, as you can imagine. Elementary schools can have the students in a pod stay static and have the teachers move. It is much more challenging to do that in a high school setting. But the archdiocese, which is, I think, the largest private school system in the country, along with a lot of other private schools, have had high schools open since September. There’s a lot that we can learn from their experience.

    I want to see, in particular, seniors be able to come back together this year, so they have something of a normal senior year experience.

    She sounds like a Republican, doesn’t she? Or is she a “liberal with sanity?” Partial sanity anyway.

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  9. Actually she clearly anti-Trump, and kind to Biden, but what she says about the teacher’s union, Bob Dole probably would not say!

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)

  10. I think some enterprising Stanford student needs to crowdfunded a business to sell torches and pitchforks

    frosty (f27e97)

  11. I read the LAUSD is also going to cut the school security foce by 1/3rd and give the money to political consultants improve Black equality. What does the Times have to say about that?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  12. As someone who believes that the “science” should be followed I am amazed at the number of times that label is applied to any-old thing. The people using it tend not to have a clue what “science” is, anyway.

    If you tell me that “science” says that water flows uphill, my answer will be “No, it doesn’t” and “Show your work.” But reporters usually just nod.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  13. Nic (896fdf) — 2/17/2021 @ 1:02 pm

    The vaccinations are in fact the stumbling block. Put a vaccine in my staff’s arm and they’d be willing to have kids back in their classrooms on Monday.

    If my googling is working it looks like there are ~250k CA teachers and ~125k/d vaccines. So, just bump teachers to the front of the line and you guys can open schools next Monday?

    frosty (f27e97)

  14. @13 Assuming the state virus levels allow 2ndary (I think we are clear or almost clear at the state level for elementary) to open and there’s enough vaccine available, schoolboard, etc etc, probably yes (the teachers would have to vote on a new MOU, but they are also currently in the middle of negotiations for that and being vaccinated would change the odds there).

    It wouldn’t be a 100% open because the kids still aren’t in the clear and we still have about 1/3 of our parents who aren’t willing to send their kids but partial opening would be totally doable.

    We’ve had a plan in place since August, the original MOU was signed in Oct(?). We were originally supposed to open up elementary in Nov until everyone had to do Halloween and then Thanksgiving and then Xmas and the virus levels went up and up and up.

    Nic (896fdf)

  15. Nic (896fdf) — 2/17/2021 @ 7:34 pm

    The vaccinations are in fact the stumbling block.

    So, vaccinating teachers isn’t “the” stumbling block. A stumbling block seems to be the kids and I think a vaccine for them isn’t expected until the fall. What it sounds like is all of the negotiations are smoke and mirrors to avoid making it clear that kids aren’t going back to school anytime soon. Those goalposts keep moving.

    But the science says kids aren’t really at risk, if you vaccinated the teachers they wouldn’t be at risk, and aren’t kids in CA required to go to school? When did “aren’t willing” become a thing? Most of that 1/3 probably don’t vote and even if all of them did that’s not enough to move an election right? Didn’t we already have another discussion about how a simple majority confers absolute authority?

    frosty (f27e97)

  16. @15 The parents elect the school board and 1/3 one way or another is definitely enough to move a local level election. The School board has opted to continue distance learning for students whose parents don’t want to send them in person.

    “aren’t kids in CA required to go to school” They aren’t required to attend in person school, no. CA has a pretty broad school choice system that includes home school, California Virtual Academy, CA k-12, and a variety of online Charter choices. CAVA and K-12 are both virtual programs as well. Districts would rather not lose students to those programs (which are terrible).

    Nic (896fdf)

  17. I wonder how much of the reluctance of the union to reopen schools can be attributed to ongoing bitterness and resentment that voters in Los Angeles refused to pass the parcel tax needed to fund the irresponsible salary hikes the UTLA were granted after going on strike a couple of years ago, and bitterness and resentment that voters in the state this past November refused to modify Prop 13 with a split-roll to raise more tax revenue for schools. I don’t think that it can all be attributed to the failure of those tax measures to pass, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if UTLA isn’t trying to make voters feel a little bit of pain out of pure spite. It would be totally in character for that particular crew.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  18. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    Actually she clearly anti-Trump, and kind to Biden, but what she says about the teacher’s union, Bob Dole probably would not say!

    It’s different when they are defying her, and not acting up in some other city, isn’t it?

    The teachers union in foul, fetid, fuming, foggy, filthy Philadelphia keeps finding reason after reason to not go back to school.

    The Dana in Kentucky (c3b452)

  19. Mr Snowman wrote:

    The vaccinations are in fact the stumbling block. Put a vaccine in my staff’s arm and they’d be willing to have kids back in their classrooms on Monday.

    If my googling is working it looks like there are ~250k CA teachers and ~125k/d vaccines. So, just bump teachers to the front of the line and you guys can open schools next Monday?

    Except, of course, the vaccination process takes two shots, 21 days apart for the Pfizer vaccine, and 28 days apart for the Moderna. Bump the teachers to the head of the line, and you can, in theory, open the schools on Monday, March 15tth or 22nd, or right at a year after they were first closed down.

    Joltin’ Joe Biden said that the schools would all be opened after his first 100 days . . . which would be April 30th.

    We might as well tell the truth here: the entire academic year has been lost

    The Dana in Kentucky (c3b452)

  20. Mr Snowman wrote:

    The vaccinations are in fact the stumbling block.

    So, vaccinating teachers isn’t “the” stumbling block. A stumbling block seems to be the kids and I think a vaccine for them isn’t expected until the fall. What it sounds like is all of the negotiations are smoke and mirrors to avoid making it clear that kids aren’t going back to school anytime soon. Those goalposts keep moving.

    The Bluegrass State has, alas! the nation’s highest percentage of children being reared by their grandparents — one of the reasons that, despite my mostly libertarian philosophy, I absotively, posilutely oppose the legalization of recreational drugs — and the elderly are more susceptible to COVID-19. Kids mostly just throw off the virus, with few if any symptoms, but they can still carry it, and in Kentucky that’s a big risk.

    Due to my age, 67, I’m classified as Tier 1C, and the local health department says that I am “on the list” to receive the vaccination, but they can’t tell me when that will actually happen.

    The Dana in Kentucky (c3b452)

  21. Mr Snowman wrote:

    The vaccinations are in fact the stumbling block.
    So, vaccinating teachers isn’t “the” stumbling block. A stumbling block seems to be the kids and I think a vaccine for them isn’t expected until the fall. What it sounds like is all of the negotiations are smoke and mirrors to avoid making it clear that kids aren’t going back to school anytime soon. Those goalposts keep moving.

    The Bluegrass State has, alas! the nation’s highest percentage of children being reared by their grandparents — one of the reasons that, despite my mostly libertarian philosophy, I absotively, posilutely oppose the legalization of recreational drugs — and the elderly are more susceptible to COVID-19. Kids mostly just throw off the virus, with few if any symptoms, but they can still carry it, and in Kentucky that’s a big risk.

    Due to my age, 67, I’m classified as Tier 1C, and the local health department says that I am “on the list” to receive the vaccination, but they can’t tell me when that will actually happen.

    The Dana in Kentucky (c3b452) — 2/18/2021 @ 2:19 am

    My kids school system has a hybrid approach. Two of my kids are back in seats, and two are not. I really think that local control is probably best in most cases. The school system and local community have the best idea of what their challenges are (you listed one that’s new to me) and what resources they have to deal with them.

    It seems like the big conflicts are in the large urban areas. Might be powerful unions and that the politics gets larger. Might be they have legitimate concerns. I don’t know.

    But if someone told me that my tax bill next year would have a 1 time 10% educational surcharge because we needed to help children whose education was impacted by Covid I know I’d be receptive. If they further told me that it would be going in large part to lower income kids and schools that would make sense to me.

    Time123 (ae9d89)

  22. 19. The Dana in Kentucky (c3b452) — 2/18/2021 @ 2:12 am

    Except, of course, the vaccination process takes two shots, 21 days apart for the Pfizer vaccine, and 28 days apart for the Moderna.

    Exept that of course, it really doesn;t. The Pfizer vaccine is quite good with only the first dose. And the longer you delay the second dose, the greater (r faster) the immunity will be.

    Dr. Fauci agrees that it could very well be true that they should not give people a second dose so long as there is sort supply but he says that by the time they finished the studies they’d have enough vaccine anyway, so he doesn’t agree that the second doses should be delayed.

    https://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/meet-press-february-07-2021-n1256967

    CHUCK TODD:

    Over the next couple of weeks, a lot of folks who have gotten first doses are scheduled to get their second dose.

    I know you’re aware of Dr. Michael Osterholm, who was on last week, and he’s an advocate of at least studying this issue of delaying the second dose. We’re in a race with these variants, and getting more people obviously with this vaccination is something a lot of people think would be helpful.

    Where are you on this? And are we in the middle of studying whether this is a viable option?

    DR. ANTHONY FAUCI:

    Well, you know, one of the things — I mean, I understand. I mean, Michael and I have spoken about this a fair amount, as recently as yesterday.

    One of the problems, Chuck, is that if you want to really study it to see that, the amount of time that it will take, the amount of people you would have to put into the study, by that time, we will already be in the arena of having enough vaccines to go around anyway.

    So from a theoretical standpoint, it would be nice to know, if you just give one dose, how long the durability lasts and what is the level of effect.

    But what we have right now, and what we must go with, is the scientific data that we’ve accumulated. And it’s really very solid. We know that, with each of these, it’s either 21 days or 28 days. You can do both. You can get as many people in their first dose at the same time as adhering within reason to the timetable of the second dose. So it would be great to have the study. But I don’t think we could do it in time, Chuck.

    CHUCK TODD:

    And there’s not enough data that’s out there now with maybe folks that haven’t gotten a second dose, but basically, we’ve created a trial group by accident? There’s not enough — not enough — data out there?

    DR. ANTHONY FAUCI:

    No, Chuck, it doesn’t work that way. The N of people, the number of people that have essentially missed that second dose to determine if they are as protected as we showed in the trial, which was 94-95% —

    CHUCK TODD:

    Right —

    DR. ANTHONY FAUCI

    — protection when you get it after the second dose, there’re not enough people and there’s not enough time. It’s a reasonable idea.

    CHUCK TODD:

    Yeah.

    DR. ANTHONY FAUCI

    I’m not putting the idea down. But it’s very impractical to do. It really is.

    CHUCK TODD:

    All right, Fairfax County Public….

    Science! Or rather, nonsense.

    We might as well tell the truth here: the entire academic year has been lost

    Only in regular public schools in places with strong teacher’s unions and elected school boards where teachers’ unions back candidates.

    .

    Sammy Finkelman (7e803d)

  23. The teachers are in the same boat we all are. Left high and dry by worthless government leeches and circled by an ignorant and demanding rabble.

    nk (1d9030)

  24. Time123 (ae9d89) — 2/18/2021 @ 5:16 am

    But if someone told me that my tax bill next year would have a 1 time 10% educational surcharge because we needed to help children whose education was impacted by Covid I know I’d be receptive. If they further told me that it would be going in large part to lower income kids and schools that would make sense to me.

    I’ve got these really valuable wooden nickels that I’m willing to exchange 1 for 1 for whatever regular nickels you can get your hands on. This is a limited time thing though and I don’t have a lot so don’t tell anyone. Also, I’ve got some beautiful beachfront land in Louisiana that I need to sell and I’d be willing to give you a deal.

    frosty (f27e97)

  25. How do you like this story?

    A person moved to State Island and started crossing the Verrazano Bridge every day. There is a discount for EZ Pass. It always used to work and was taken out of her bank account and she paid no attention. The cameras for some reason were not reading it. But they did capture the license plates.

    She didn’t get or missed the bills. So she was charged $19 a day plus a $100 penalty for each crossing – $119 per day. When she called it was suggested she drove too fast or she drove too slow, and eventually I think that the EZ Pass was not attached properly. She had had EZ Pass with no problems since 2005.

    This was for the month of February, 2020. When she got a new car and changed her address everything was working perfectly again. The Triborough Bridge and Tunnel Authority sent it to a collection agency and billed $3,300 or something. When she called the person she talked to someone that person spoke to a supervisor and offered to cut it in half. But that was still way too much. She sent them a check for what she was calculated she should pay – $1224.00? but they rejected it owing to the “language.”

    Sammy Finkelman (86c6e0)

  26. But if someone told me that my tax bill next year would have a 1 time 10% educational surcharge because we needed to help children whose education was impacted by Covid I know I’d be receptive. If they further told me that it would be going in large part to lower income kids and schools that would make sense to me.

    And if every dime went to the pensions of administrators and to pay for junkets for the school board, would you be terribly surprised?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  27. Simple fix. Get rid of the idiotic “certification” requirement and teaching degrees. Hire people with professional experience. Require teachers to show up for work. School opens Monday.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  28. Get rid of the idiotic “certification” requirement and teaching degrees.

    Those are the guild requirements that the unions demand. We cannot have this anarchy.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  29. I know Kevin. They are garbage restrictions to prevent qualified people from holding jobs who aren’t part of the “guild.” They don’t want educated, qualified people. They want drones.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  30. @27 You can teach if you have a bachelor’s degree and professional experience and go through an alternative credentialing program (usually a district internship). Very few people choose to do so.

    @28 “guild requirements that the unions demand” *laughs and laughs* No. Certification of some kind has been required since the 1800s and the teachers aren’t the ones making the requirements higher and higher.

    Nic (896fdf)

  31. But if someone told me that my tax bill next year would have a 1 time 10% educational surcharge because we needed to help children whose education was impacted by Covid I know I’d be receptive. If they further told me that it would be going in large part to lower income kids and schools that would make sense to me.

    Well, not to be too provocative but imagine if whatever agency administered this program (county, city, etc.) said that you could either pay the 10% educational surcharge to the government for use at public schools, or you could be given a waiver if you could show that you donated a commensurate amount to an accredited private school of your choice in that same jurisdiction. Wouldn’t that be a really interesting experience to see where the money ends up?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  32. Hey Nic, how about your representatives in Oakley California. They did a good job of showing how the left really thinks. Ready to go back to babysitting yet or are you joining up to kick some butt?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  33. @NJRob@32 Assuming I have figured out what you are referencing, the people talking were the School Board members, not the staff. I probably shouldn’t need to remind you at this point that being a member of the school board is an elected position. They aren’t staff members.

    As far as me personally, apparently I will need to remind you that I am still working. We are all still working. The job doesn’t go away just because the kids aren’t on-site. A lot of what I am personally doing is the same kinds of transition to next year stuff that I do every year starting in December. Data input, paperwork, planning, meetings, student counts, staff counts, and demographic data are all pretty much the same job regardless of whether students are on campus or not. It’s just more by zoom than it used to be.

    You know, generally speaking, I have been perfectly happy to talk about what the reality of the education system looks like and I have not been particularly reticent to talk about the stupid or ridiculous things, but I also tend not to let misconceptions slide by either. I am not singling you out for some reason or another, you just bring far too many misconceptions to the table.

    Nic (896fdf)

  34. Mr M wrote:

    And if every dime went to the pensions of administrators and to pay for junkets for the school board, would you be terribly surprised?

    In the Bluegrass State, teachers do not pay into Social Security, and their retirements are paid for by a similar, state-based Kentucky Retirement System. The problem has been that the state has shortchanged the amount it had been paying into the system for years and years and years. The last Governor, Matt Bevin, a republican, tried to fix the system, but, Heaven forfend! it would have cost the teachers more money.

    So, the teachers mobilized — “A Promise is a Promise!” — and managed, by just 5,000 votes, to defeat Governor Bevin in the 2019 election. Pension system didn’t get fixed, of course, and we got a wannabe dictator in the obnoxious Andy Beshear.

    Of course, Mr Bevin was kind of an [insert slang term for the rectum here], in a way not dissimilar to the 45th President of the United States, which didn’t help him much, but sometimes an [insert slang term for the rectum here] is what we need to get [insert slang term for feces here] done.

    Political conservatism is really not for nice guys; political conservatism requires having the attitude that you can, and will, tell people, “No!”

    The Dana in Kentucky (c3b452)

  35. But if someone told me that my tax bill next year would have a 1 time 10% educational surcharge because we needed to help children whose education was impacted by Covid I know I’d be receptive. If they further told me that it would be going in large part to lower income kids and schools that would make sense to me.

    Well, not to be too provocative but imagine if whatever agency administered this program (county, city, etc.) said that you could either pay the 10% educational surcharge to the government for use at public schools, or you could be given a waiver if you could show that you donated a commensurate amount to an accredited private school of your choice in that same jurisdiction. Wouldn’t that be a really interesting experience to see where the money ends up?

    JVW (ee64e4) — 2/18/2021 @ 8:49 pm

    I’d for sure prefer to use my money on my kids. I think anyone would. From what I’ve read the bigger problems are with urban, rural, and lower income areas. Also, 10% of my income doesn’t pay for 4 kids to go to private school.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  36. Of course, Mr Bevin was kind of an [insert slang term for the rectum here], in a way not dissimilar to the 45th President of the United States, which didn’t help him much, but sometimes an [insert slang term for the rectum here] is what we need to get [insert slang term for feces here] done.

    We have too many [insert slang term for the rectum here] and not enough getting things done in general.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  37. Time123 (d1bf33) — 2/19/2021 @ 6:11 am

    Also, 10% of my income doesn’t pay for 4 kids to go to private school.

    I don’t think it was meant to. I think it was just the idea that if you wanted to contribute you could more directly choose where that 10% went instead of it going into the state government, who takes a cut, then down to the county, who also takes a cut, and then into a large school district with a less than stellar reputation for fiduciary responsibility, before some of it is allocated to improving kids education. Even if it goes directly from the state to the school district some is skimmed away as the angels share.

    I think the takeaway was

    Wouldn’t that be a really interesting experience to see where the money ends up?

    frosty (f27e97)

  38. I assume the implication was that people would prefer to put their kids in private school. Which I get. I turned down a job once because the public schools in the area were poor and I couldn’t afford private school with the number of kids I have.

    But you might be right about the intent.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  39. Time123 (d1bf33) — 2/19/2021 @ 6:50 am

    I turned down a job once because the public schools in the area were poor and I couldn’t afford private school with the number of kids I have.

    This is one of the arguments for a voucher based system. All schools should be “private” and all parents should be able to choose.

    frosty (f27e97)

  40. Time123 (d1bf33) — 2/19/2021 @ 6:50 am

    I turned down a job once because the public schools in the area were poor and I couldn’t afford private school with the number of kids I have.

    This is one of the arguments for a voucher based system. All schools should be “private” and all parents should be able to choose.

    frosty (f27e97) — 2/19/2021 @ 7:13 am

    If you have to accept all students you’re not private.
    If you can pick and choose students parents don’t get to chose.

    either way the devil is in the details.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  41. Time123 (d1bf33) — 2/19/2021 @ 7:22 am

    If you have to accept all students you’re not private.

    Ok, but that has nothing to do with vouchers. And honestly I’m not sure what this “not private” designation is. A “private” business that serves the public isn’t “not private”. I can’t speak for other districts but in my district the public school system can decide it doesn’t want to accept a student for several reasons. Are you now thinking those are now “not public”?

    If you can pick and choose students parents don’t get to chose.

    This is just schematics. If both parties can choose to enter into a transaction then both have a choice. At the end of the day that’s still far more choice than paying taxes for the public system and having to pay again for something else.

    either way the devil is in the details.

    Yea, I think you’re just arguing for no reason on this one. What’s your endgame? Just keep funneling money into “public” schools and ignore the problems?

    frosty (f27e97)

  42. @41, Frosty, my point is that a lot of the discrepancy in outcomes between public schools, charter schools, and private schools, go away when you adjust for the fact that public schools aren’t able to be selective.

    Time123 (ae9d89)

  43. Are you currently a beach person? Someone who feels the world’s stress melts away when you are gazing into emerald waters while standing sugar sand? Someone who constantly looks for the hotel that is directly on the beach, instead of across the street from the beach? Have you got Google flight alerts set for every tropical beach you adore? If you answered yes to some or all these, your next vacation should probably incorporate an overwater bungalow. My friend, is as near as you can get to the water — on top of it. And when you feel like getting in for a dip, all you have to do is step outside your door. Or back door leading to the patio.

    So why should you consider a honeymoon in barbados with an overwater bungalow and what should you expect? We will dive into the details here of our favourite Sandals over the water bungalow experiences that are sure to become your #1 favorite vacation destination. It’s the type of vacation that leaves you wondering how every other holiday could compare to this one (in a fantastic way).

    Why you need an overwater bungalow
    Considering that the tropical paradise of both Jamaica and St. Lucia, we are already swooning over holidays in these places and the resorts only make the deal even sweeter. Honeymoon, anniversary trip, women week away, or as a participation trip — we adore these bungalows for so many events.

    Vanetravel (d7ad6b)

  44. Mr 123 wrote:

    Frosty, my point is that a lot of the discrepancy in outcomes between public schools, charter schools, and private schools, go away when you adjust for the fact that public schools aren’t able to be selective.

    If private schools couldn’t be selective, why would anyone choose private schools?

    Parents choose private schools for all sorts of reasons, but underneath all of them is that they anticipate a better outcome for their children.

    My daughters started out in public school, but when my older daughter finished the fifth grade, at very decent Frances Asbury School in Hampton, Virginia, she would have been assigned to Lois Spratley Middle School, which happened to have the highest number of student cases referred to the police of any school in the Hampton Roads area.

    Thank you, but no; St Mary Star of the Sea School was the better choice, and since we were sending the older one there, might as well send the younger one, too.

    Career move, to Wilmington, Delaware, and not only had the good people of New Castle County practically destroyed the public schools, but my younger daughter would have been bused into the center of combat-zone Wilmington. Nope, sorry, I’d rather pay for Corpus Christi School.

    The Dana in Kentucky (c3b452)

  45. In the meantime, the New York Post has reported that Janice Min has withdrawn from consideration to become new Editor-in-Chief of what our esteemed host used to call the Los Angeles Dog Trainer, after The Wall Street Journal reported that owner Dr Patrick Soon-Shiong is looking to unload the money-losing newspaper.

    The Dana in Kentucky (c3b452)

  46. Prole World problems.

    And public schools are in fact selective, and I ain’t talkin only ’bout them there mag-net schools like the one I went to in Chicago where you got to score yay-high on a test to get in. I’m also talking about where your parents select to live and that school district’s residency requirements; “honor” classes for kids who can learn as opposed to the “regular” classes for kids who can’t or don’t want to; “special” education classes and even schools for a very, very wide range of “learning disabilities; and all other kinds of neat things like that to sort the wheat from the chaff.

    nk (1d9030)

  47. Time123 (ae9d89) — 2/19/2021 @ 8:53 am

    my point is that a lot of the discrepancy in outcomes between public schools, charter schools, and private schools, go away when you adjust for the fact that public schools aren’t able to be selective.

    We were talking about vouchers and parents having more control over the money directed towards education. I don’t know what you’re talking about at this point. Giving public schools greater ability to be selective and the tax revenue tips the scales even more towards public schools.

    In that scenario the discrepancy gets worse because public schools could just refuse all low performing students and those parents would have to pay taxes and private school costs. A lot of those parents would only be able to afford the most inexpensive option which would likely be a poorer quality school.

    I’m still not following your anti-voucher anti-private school reasoning.

    frosty (f27e97)

  48. There was a letter in the Wall Street Journal on Thursday whose headline said that the L.A teachers Union was disingenuous on Covid – but actually it talked about the Los Angeles Unified School District.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/l-a-teachers-union-is-disingenuous-on-covid-11613589077

    Seems like it claimed it might require students to be vaccinated.

    Now vaccination for children 12-15 are going through clinical trials, but it is a minimum of months till it could be approved, and that’s mot certain, and there’s no pediatric clinical trial going on for children under 12.

    So to say that you might require children to be vaccinated in order to attend in person classes is equivalent to saying there will be no in-person learning for children under 16.

    But that may be what the teachers union is asking for.

    This letter was responding to this article:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-universal-vaccination-chimera-11612466130

    which included this paragraph:

    The possibility of Covid-19 vaccine mandates in schools deserves special attention. There are almost no data on the potential benefits or harms of Covid-19 vaccination in children, and no crystal ball to predict disease epidemiology in a future that will likely include high vaccination rates among teachers and vulnerable family members. Yet at least one school district—Los Angeles Unified, the nation’s second largest—has announced it intends to require the vaccine for students.

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  49. The Los Angeles school board has cancelled, for the time being, its cancellation project. They are at least going to wait until the LA public schools are open before proceeding further. It indicated that this process was started in 2018, and proceeded on schedule regardless of the pandemic.

    Sammy Finkelman (c95a5a)

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