Patterico's Pontifications

1/23/2021

Weekend Open Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 8:53 am



[guest post by Dana]

Here are a few news items for you to chew over. Please feel free to share anything you think might interest readers. Make sure to include links.

First news item

RIP baseball legend Hank Aaron:

Henry Louis “Hank” Aaron, the Hall of Fame slugger whose 755 career home runs long stood as baseball’s golden mark, has died. He was 86.

One of the sport’s great stars despite playing for the small-market Milwaukee/Atlanta Braves throughout a major league career that spanned from 1954 to 1976, Aaron still holds major league records for RBIs (2,297), total bases (6,856) and extra-base hits (1,477), and he ranks among MLB’s best in hits (3,771, third all time), games played (3,298, third) and runs scored (2,174, fourth).

Aaron broke records and broke color lines, but not everyone was happy about it. This is from 2019:

Hank Aaron encountered plenty of racism in his life, but nothing prepared him for the hatred and death threats he received as he chased Babe Ruth’s career home run record nearly 45 years ago.

Among the many hate-filled letters he was sent was one that he shared years later in Sports Illustrated: “You are not going to break his record established by the great Babe Ruth if I can help it. Whites are far more superior than [slur] . . . My gun is watching your every black move.’’

Aaron, who will turn 85 Tuesday, says the night of April 8, 1974 — when he hit his 715th home run at Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium to break Ruth’s record — brings back memories that are much more bitter than sweet. The path to breaking Ruth’s mark of 714 was filled with anguish, he said.

Leave it to a politician to exploit his death:

Anti-vaccine pseudoscience peddler Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. used baseball legend Hank Aaron’s death in a desperate attempt to fan hysteria over the coronavirus vaccine late Friday. Kennedy, whose fact-free work has been rebuked by his own family, tweeted Friday, “Hank Aaron’s tragic death is part of a wave of suspicious deaths among elderly closely following administration of COVID vaccines. He received the Moderna vaccine on Jan. 5 to inspire other Black Americans to get the vaccine.” Aaron died at age 86 on Friday morning.

Second news item

Trump conspiring?? Unbelievable, yet so believable:

President Donald Trump conspired with a Justice Department lawyer to oust the acting attorney general so as to further pressure the agency into pursuing his false claims of widespread voter fraud in Georgia. Earlier this month, top DOJ lawyers learned of the attempted ouster of Jeffrey Rosen, according to The New York Times, and a group of them agreed to resign if Trump did indeed fire Rosen and replace him with Jeffrey Clark, a DOJ attorney who had plotted with Trump to bring the DOJ around to Trump’s point of view on the Georgia ballots. The president reportedly pitted Clark directly against Rosen in a pitch contest akin to The Apprentice in a meeting at the White House.

Third news item

Meh. Expect more of this post-insurrection pondering:

MSNBC’s Anand Giridharadas questioned Friday if Fox News “is a thing that should exist in America.”

“Part of this justice is not just on him,” he said. “It’s on the media ecosystem — Fox News and OANN and all these other things — that is not just offering a different point of view, as we all know. It is a brain-mashing machine for half of this country and we see that a large number of brains are already being mashed. We see after the terrorist insurrection that 12% of Americans supported the terrorist attack after it happened. I’m not just worried about a few thousand people on the Hill; I’m worried about several million people who are now down with terrorism as a means of political conduct. They are brain-mashing victims in addition to being perpetrators of this activity. I think we need to shift the debate to say, ‘Is Fox News a thing that should exist in America?’ Is that not a violation of the basic ethics and norms of a civil society, if not of the law?”

Fourth news item

Utter bullshit from an utterly bullshit individual:

House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) attracted attention last week when he said in a floor speech that former President Donald Trump “bears responsibility” for the deadly Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.

But since then, he has seemed to walk back his criticism.

On Thursday, he told reporters that he didn’t actually believe Trump had “provoked” the mob of his supporters.

In an interview airing Sunday on Gray Television’s “Full Court Press With Greta Van Susteren,” McCarthy insisted he wasn’t changing his tune.

“No, I have not changed in that,” he said.

He stood by his assertion that Trump does bear some responsibility for what happened. But, he added, so does every other person around the country.

“I also think everybody across this country has some responsibility,” he said.

Fifth news item

The divide in the Democratic Party likely to become even more significant:

President Biden talks like a soothing centrist. He promises to govern like a soothing centrist. But early moves show that he is keeping his promise to advance a liberal agenda.

Never before has a president done more by executive fiat in such a short period of time than Biden. And those specific actions, coupled with a push for a more progressive slate of regulators and advisers, look more like the Biden of the Democratic primary than the unity-and-restraint Biden of the general election.

Biden also extended a Trump-era student loan payments pause, and foreclosure and eviction moratoriums, that that were set to expire.

One sign of the delicate dance to appease the most progressive members of his party: In response to Biden’s decision to extend the student loan pause, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez tweeted: “OK now let’s cancel them.”

Biden’s campaign said it would ask Congress to cancel $10,000 in student debt for borrowers, CNBC reported earlier this month.

Sixth news item

LIAR, LIAR, PANTS ON FIRE:

Asked about how the rioters and rallygoers thought they could change the electoral results, pointing to his and other Republican objections, Hawley claimed: “I was very clear from the beginning that I was never attempting to overturn the election.”

From Jan. 4:

BAIER: Are you trying to say that, as of January 20, that President Trump will be president?

HAWLEY: That depends on what happens on Wednesday. I mean, this is why we have the debate.

Seventh news item

Biden says his mask mandate is common sense. Republicans say ‘kiss my ass.’:

When Joe Biden issued an executive order this week requiring mask-wearing on federal properties, it was framed as the least controversial provision he would issue early in his presidency.

“It’s not a political statement,” he said, “it’s a patriotic act.”

But shortly after the newly elected president uttered that plea, some Republicans made clear that even this ask wouldn’t go over well with them.

“The Biden administration is already headed in the wrong direction,” Rep. Lauren Boebert (R-Colo.) said on Friday. “Continued federal overreach won’t end the Covid-19 pandemic or put food on the table.”

And within days, it became clearer that opponents wouldn’t just complain about the mask mandate, but actively fight it, too.

“Definitely expect lawsuits from our state, private lawsuits,” said Brendan Steinhauser, a Texas-based GOP strategist and former campaign manager to Sen. John Cornyn (R-Texas).

Eighth news item

Courage under fire: Alexei Navalny in Russia:

Protesters took to the streets Saturday in nearly 70 cities and towns across Russia calling for the release of jailed opposition leader Alexei Navalny — a massive show of defiance against President Vladimir Putin and his widening crackdowns against challenges to his power.

More than 1,850 people were detained, including Navalny’s wife, Yulia.

The rallies — from Russia’s Far East to central Moscow — came less than a week after Navalny returned from Germany, where he recovered from a nerve agent poisoning in August during a trip to Siberia. Navalny was arrested shortly after stepping off the plane.

Some 40,000 people participated in the Moscow protest, the Reuters news agency reported, while police said 4,000 people took part.

Tens of thousands of others joined protests across the country — sending a powerful message to the Kremlin on the reach and resolve of Navalny’s network. It also underscored the pressure facing Russian authorities who must decide whether to keep Navalny behind bars.

Liz Cheney in the good ‘ol USA:

Cheney, the No. 3 Republican in the House, has faced backlash from within her own party since she joined nine other House Republicans last week in voting to impeach Trump for inciting an insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

Since then, more than 100 House Republicans — more than half of the caucus’s members — have committed to an effort to remove Cheney from her role as chairwoman of the House Republican Conference.

Cheney’s vote has not only landed her in hot water in Washington, but in her home state as well. The Wyoming GOP issued an unusual condemnation of Cheney’s actions after the impeachment vote last week, releasing a point-by-point criticism of her vote.

About her vote to impeach Trump:

There has never been a greater betrayal by a President of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution.

Ninth news item

In politics and human nature, everything changes and nothing changes:

In 1994, I was teaching U.S. history and American government at Oak Ridge HS in El Dorado Hills, California. I had three bright students who were my TAs. The 20th anniversary of Richard Nixon’s resignation was a few months away. I decided to have my students — Sherilyn Peek, Aaron Leahy and Nicole Poimiroo — take on an extra project. They contacted dozens of people who were in some way involved with the Watergate saga. Politicians, lawyers, political appointees, journalists and others.

They spent weeks, before the internet existed, tracking down addresses. Then they sent a short letter that asked the recipients to respond to one question: What should America learn from Watergate?

Before long, responses started to show up in my mailbox at school…

It’s a fascinating read, especially in light of Trump’s impeachments and his upcoming trial. Read the whole thing.

Miscellaneous:

Bernie Sanders memes flooded the internet this week and some have been pretty funny:

Untitled

Heh: “People will really put Bernie anywhere but the White House”.

P.S. While not a Bernie supporter, I love this:

Have a good weekend.

–Dana

289 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread”

  1. Good morning! Currently pondering: if it’s cold, gray, and rainy out, is there really any good reason to get dressed??

    Dana (fd537d)

  2. https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_1776_Report

    And for those who want it in its original format. (Unfortunate signup to the scribd required)

    https://www.scribd.com/document/491241411/Final-Report#download&from_embed

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  3. I saw Aaron hit his 715th dinger off Al Downing on live television. Great moment. Aaron was a great hitter period, and he wasn’t that big of a guy, just a consistent hitting machine. He hit 47 homers in his best year, and he didn’t have to beefcake up like Bonds.

    If Trump pressured multiple election officials in GA, and pressured Rosen, and pressured Pence, and pressured Barr, and tried to replace Rosen, and fired a US attorney in GA, and invited state representatives to the White House to pressure them, what other pressuring and bullying did Trump do to steal an election? We know that Milley issued a statement for no overt reason that the US military would defend and uphold Constitution, so my guess is that Trump was looking pliable DoD folks to do…well, something. What else?

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  4. Kennedy, whose fact-free work has been rebuked by his own family, tweeted Friday, “Hank Aaron’s tragic death is part of a wave of suspicious deaths among elderly closely following administration of COVID vaccines. He received the Moderna vaccine on Jan. 5 to inspire other Black Americans to get the vaccine.”

    I wonder what editors actually do these days. You’d think someone would notice a series of facts in a tweet right after making the “fact-free” comment.

    “It’s not a political statement,” he said, “it’s a patriotic act.”

    But shortly after the newly elected president uttered that plea

    I guess they’re busy with the propaganda.

    frosty (fc141b)

  5. Good morning, Dana. It’s a beautiful day here in Chicago. Sunshine, blue sky, and bracing temperatures.

    nk (1d9030)

  6. https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr-esq/the-covid-19-stimulus-bill-would-make-illegal-streaming-a-felony

    The priorities of our government while calling it the COVID relief bill.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  7. I was able to put up an actual video in the post of broadcasting legend Vin Scully announcing Aaron’s record-breaking homerun. It’s still thrilling after all these years.

    Dana (fd537d)

  8. Anyone know if those Bernie sweatshirts are child sweatshop or slave labor free?

    frosty (fc141b)

  9. The moral and intellectual poverty of the so-called Republican Party becomes more evident every day. They have gone beyond pandering and turning the tricks their own selves.

    nk (1d9030)

  10. frosty, RFK Jr. had two factual dots, but no evidence connecting them, just speculation.
    If he’s right that Aaron’s death was related to a vaccine, then he got lucky. If he’s wrong, as he consistently is about vaccines, then he soiled himself for contemptibly exploiting the death of a baseball legend to advance his political agenda. People who aren’t fringy douchebags don’t try to jump the gun like this.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  11. Paging Paul Montagu:

    Jeffrey Clark, the Justice Department attorney who reportedly schemed with the president to oust the acting attorney general, also played a leading role in bringing the DOJ to the president’s defense in a defamation case filed against him personally. The New York Times reported Friday that Clark and Donald Trump had hatched a plan to push out acting Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen in order to cast doubt on the results of the presidential election in Georgia. According to federal court filings, Clark also served as one of the lead attorneys for Trump in the suit filed against him by E. Jean Carroll, an advice columnist who accuses him of defamation. Trump has denied Carroll’s claim that he raped her in a Manhattan department store decades ago.

    The Justice Department made the controversial move in September to defend Trump in the lawsuit, which was filed against him in his personal capacity, saying Trump was “acting within the scope of his office as President of the United States.” Clark appears to have signed off personally on the decision for the DOJ to intervene, according to the court documents. Carroll wrote on Twitter Friday of Clark, “This is the chump who filed the DOJ case against me, saying it was the President’s job to slander women. The Trump Presidency was corrupt right down to the core of its spleen.”

    Dana (fd537d)

  12. Anyone know if those Bernie sweatshirts are child sweatshop or slave labor free?

    frosty (fc141b) — 1/23/2021 @ 9:21 am

    Worry not:

    7.2 oz, 100% Combed Ring Spun Organic Cotton Fleece , unisex crew sweatshirt. Made in the USA, Union printed.

    Dana (fd537d)

  13. RIP Larry King, 87.

    Pearly Gates… Hello!

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  14. The death penalty debate is a matter of principle. Likewise abortion. Trump’s 1776 Commission is political revisionist horsesh!t and there’s no reason why a new President should keep their mental meanderings on his White House’s website.

    nk (1d9030)

  15. [Liz] Cheney said, “There has never been a greater betrayal by a President of the United States of his office and his oath to the Constitution.”

    Pfft. She best have a chat with Daddy Darth about his role in support of The Big Dick.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  16. I’ve added another news item to the post: a history teacher looks back at his students’ research of Nixon’s resignation and the responses from politicians and journalists. In politics and human nature, everything changes and nothing changes.

    Dana (fd537d)

  17. Allahpundit: House GOP hits bottom, digs

    [quoting Politico’s report on efforts to oust Cheney]

    The most immediate threat to Cheney — a push by Trump loyalists to oust her as conference chair — has gained momentum inside the House GOP, although the process is complicated and could still sputter out. But at least 107 Republicans, or just over a majority, have communicated to the leaders of that effort that they would support removing Cheney from leadership on a secret ballot, according to multiple GOP sources involved in the effort. Others are threatening to boycott future conference meetings if she remains in power…

    Members are not only angry with her impeachment vote, but also furious that Cheney announced her position a day ahead — giving Democrats ample time to use her statement in all of their talking points, while also providing cover to the nine other Republicans who backed impeachment.

    Savor this irony. Cheney voted yes on impeachment knowing that it would bring down the wrath of the MAGA-in-chief and all of his flying monkeys in the House on her. Now they’re eager to punish her — but some want to do it via secret ballot, for fear that voting against her will bring down her wrath on them: “Rosendale said multiple members fear they will be retaliated against if they publicly call to remove Cheney, which is why they’re more willing to vote on a secret ballot than sign a petition.”

    Spineless, sociopathic cowards; just like the false god they worship.

    Dave (1bb933)

  18. 12, I’m surprised there wasnt a recent photo of Hank Aaron going into a voting booth.

    urbanleftbehind (3678bd)

  19. Nk,

    did you read it or are you just calling it that because TRUMP?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  20. @18. Interesting; at that time, I wrote a letter to Sam Ervin. He answered w/a signed note and enclosed a pocket copy of the Constitution the Senators carried. Still have both.

    It’s essential to recall the context of the times as well. The betrayal of confidences in established institutions on such a broad scale was relatively new to the citizenry and came in rapid succession. On top of the Vietnam disaster, the Pentagon Papers revelations and other assorted upheavals- civil rights, assassinations, etc., was fresh. Over the decades, repeated betrayals only served to ingrain the skepticism and cynicism deeper. Now, it’s second nature.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  21. Nk,

    did you read it or are you just calling it that because TRUMP?

    Half and half. I tried reading it and saw it for it was in the first page. Pseudohistory with an agenda. What I’d expect from Trump pandering to his base.

    nk (1d9030)

  22. As for McCarthy’s statement, if we are all responsible for the Capitol Riot/Insurrection than it’s pretty clear how this should be handled by the Republican Party:

    Ladies and gentlemen, l’ll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules or took a few liberties with American democracy.

    We did.

    But you can’t hold a whole political party responsible for the behavior of a few sick, perverted elected officials and also its leader. If you do, shouldn’t we blame all elected officials? And if all elected officials are guilty then isn’t this an indictment of our democratic institutions in general? I put it to you, isn’t this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do what you want to us. But we won’t sit here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America! Gentlemen!

    [Shamelessly stolen from a comment on another blog]

    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/01/we-are-the-world#disqus_thread

    Victor (4959fb)

  23. @24-
    Hilarious!

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  24. Sad.

    nk (1d9030)

  25. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 1/23/2021 @ 9:22 am

    My comment wasn’t about Kennedy or the underlying questions about the vaccine. It was about a “reporter” who had the option of doing some actual journalism but was too lazy.

    The best the article does is

    There has not been a wave of irregular deaths among the elderly after receiving the Moderna vaccine, which has been declared safe for use by older people by the World Health Organization, the Food and Drug Administration, and dozens governments.

    The phrase “irregular deaths” is doing a lot of heavy lifting since the tone of the article is to ridicule any concern about the vaccines. CA had concerns about a batch of Moderna and several non-nut jobs have voiced concerns about the vaccines generally. But the author is pushing an agenda that doesn’t have much to do with informing the reader. You’re supposed to walk away from this article thinking any questions about the vaccines are anti-vax quackery.

    And you know it’s propaganda because not that long ago KH said she wouldn’t trust a vaccine under Trump and all of the serious people did the serious head nod. Then she’s at the head of the line to get the same vaccine distributed by the same people.

    The press is trying to manipulate you. You don’t have to play along.

    frosty (f27e97)

  26. NJRob, I thought conservatives were opposed to federal government intervention in primary/secondary education, and believed that local school boards should exercise control.

    Does that change when it’s your party imposing its ideology on school children?

    Dave (1bb933)

  27. Victor (4959fb) — 1/23/2021 @ 10:32 am

    I think this is the original

    truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction is obliged to stick to probability, and truth ain’t – Pudd’nhead

    frosty (f27e97)

  28. @29-
    We got the joke.

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  29. Dave,

    where is my party’s ideology being forced upon school children? I’m not the one indoctrinating them with Obama songs or claiming America is irredeemably racist. I’m not the one saying our Constitution is an old, outdated document written by evil, white men.

    You’re the “teacher.” Not I.

    Without a common culture, we don’t have a nation. The left is making sure that is the case.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  30. Dave (1bb933) — 1/23/2021 @ 11:08 am

    NJRob, I thought conservatives were opposed to federal government intervention in primary/secondary education, and believed that local school boards should exercise control.

    Where did you get that idea from? W gave us No Child Left Behind and he was the compassionate conservative. That was pretty far from “opposed to federal government intervention”.

    frosty (f27e97)

  31. USAGM Chief Fires Trump Allies Over Radio Free Europe And Other Networks
    The acting CEO of the U.S. Agency for Global Media continued her sweep of federally funded international broadcasters to remove leaders linked to former President Donald Trump.

    On Friday evening, Kelu Chao fired the recently appointed presidents and boards of Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty, Radio Free Asia and the Middle East Broadcasting Networks named by her predecessor, Trump loyalist Michael Pack. Over his seven months in office, Pack had embarked on a scorched-earth assault on the agency’s broadcast networks, telling conservative media outlets he needed to “drain the swamp” and that its newsrooms were overrun with anti-Trump journalists.
    …….
    Unlike Voice of America and the Office of Cuba Broadcasting — which are owned by the federal government — the broadcast networks at the center of the firings are technically private not-for-profit networks funded by USAGM.

    Radio Free Europe’s Ted Lipien, Radio Free Asia’s Stephen J. Yates and Victoria Coates of the Middle East Broadcasting Network were appointed by Pack in late December. …….
    …….
    At the same time, Pack stocked their boards with right-wing ideologues and Trump apologists. New board member Roger L. Simon wrote in his column for the conspiracy-retailing and Trump-supporting Epoch Times that the boards would never give in to pressure from Biden officials.

    The boards also included a conservative talk show host with previous experience at USAGM’s predecessor agency, the maker of a 2020 pro-Trump documentary called “The Plot Against the President,” an activist lawyer with the conservative evangelical outfit Liberty Counsel and a former State Department adviser in the Trump administration.

    Pack resigned under pressure from the Biden team just two hours after the new president took office. Chao forced out Voice of America’s director, Robert Reilly, and his deputy, former State Department official Elizabeth Robbins, on her first day in the CEO job. Each had also been appointed by Pack in December.

    It is unclear whether Chao’s actions will be subject to legal challenges. …….
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  32. Spineless, sociopathic cowards; just like the false god they worship.

    Reaganoptics.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  33. Frosty

    I also kind of enjoy the initial speech, which I will alter slightly:

    “The Republican Party has a long tradition of existence for its members and the community at large.”

    How can you argue with that?

    Victor (4959fb)

  34. Wyoming Republicans censure Rep. Liz Cheney over Trump Impeachment

    http://www.fox13news.com/news/wyoming-republicans

    WASHINGTON – Wyoming ‘s Carbon County Republican Party voted unanimously to censure Rep. Liz Cheney, R-Wyo., for voting with nine other House Republicans to impeach President Trump on charges of ” incitement of an insurrection.” That censure resolution has been submitted to be considered by the Wyoming Republican Party’s State Central Committee.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  35. Wyoming county votes to censure Liz Cheney for Trump impeachment vote

    source, The Hill.com

    The Carbon County Republican Party in Wyoming voted unanimously to censure Rep. Liz Cheney

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  36. Justice Department, FBI debate not charging some of the Capitol rioters
    …….
    Justice Department officials have promised a relentless effort to identify and arrest those who stormed the Capitol that day, but internally there is robust back-and-forth about whether charging them all is the best course of action. That debate comes at a time when officials are keenly sensitive that the credibility of the Justice Department and the FBI are at stake in such decisions, given the apparent security and intelligence failures that preceded the riot, these people said, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss legal deliberations.

    Federal officials estimate that roughly 800 people surged into the building, though they caution that such numbers are imprecise, and the real figure could be 100 people or more in either direction.
    ……..
    Due to the wide variety of behavior, some federal officials have argued internally that those people who are known only to have committed unlawful entry — and were not engaged in violent, threatening or destructive behavior — should not be charged, according to people familiar with the discussions.

    Other agents and prosecutors have pushed back against that suggestion, arguing that it is important to send a forceful message that the kind of political violence and mayhem on display Jan. 6 needs to be punished to the full extent of the law, so as to discourage similar conduct in the future.
    …….
    The primary objective for authorities is to determine which individuals, if any, planned, orchestrated or directed the violence. To that end, the FBI has already found worrying linkages within such extremist groups as the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, and Three Percenters, and is looking to see if those groups coordinated with each other to storm the building, according to people familiar with the investigation.

    Prosecutors have signaled they are looking to bring charges of seditious conspiracy against anyone who planned and carried out violence aimed at the government — a charge that carries a maximum possible prison sentence of 20 years.
    ……..
    …….. [D]efense lawyers for some of those charged are contemplating something akin to a “Trump defense” — that the president or other authority figures gave them permission or invited them to commit an otherwise illegal act.
    “If you think of yourself as a soldier doing the bidding of the commander in chief, you don’t try to hide your actions. You assume you will be held up as a hero by the nation,” criminal defense lawyers Teri Kanefield and Mark Reichel wrote last week.
    ………
    “It’s not a like a bunch of people gathered on their own and decided to do this, it’s not like a mob. It’s people who were asked to come by the president, encouraged to come by the president, and encouraged to do what they did by the president and a number of others,” said one attorney representing defendants charged in the breach who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss legal strategy.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  37. “Without a common culture, we don’t have a nation. ”

    Ein reich ein volk

    Davethulhu (f31045)

  38. The phrase “irregular deaths” is doing a lot of heavy lifting since the tone of the article is to ridicule any concern about the vaccines.

    frosty, where did the reporter “ridicule any concern about the vaccines? I didn’t see it. As I read it, the writer was ridiculing RFK Jr. in his short blurb, appropriately so.
    And how was he “lazy”? I follow the news pretty closely, and I assume you do. Have you heard of any “irregular deaths”, let alone of a “wave” that arose from the Moderna vaccine? Do you have evidence? If there was, news to me.
    RFK Jr. made an assertion without backing it up, just waving his arms around like he usually does, claiming a “wave of suspicious deaths” among old folks who took vaccines without a hint of proof. Maybe RFK Jr., not Montgomery, should be challenged for his veracity. Just a thought.
    The part you should have criticized was the writer’s editorial license, for saying that his comments were a “desperate attempt to fan hysteria over the coronavirus vaccine.”

    And you know it’s propaganda because not that long ago KH said she wouldn’t trust a vaccine under Trump and all of the serious people did the serious head nod.

    You misrepresented what Harris said, frosty. She said wouldn’t take Trump’s word about a vaccine breakthrough, but she would take the word of experts like Fauci. This is what she said at the debate.

    If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it, absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I’m not taking it.

    Talk about being manipulated.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  39. FWIW, I feel exactly the same way about the 1619 nonsense, too. Pseudohistory with an agenda.

    nk (1d9030)

  40. And now for something on the *lighter* side:

    A Michigan marijuana dispensary is offering a free joint to anyone who gets a Covid-19 vaccine

    Disclaimer: I have not read a word of the article itself. Laugh or shudder at your own risk.

    nk (1d9030)

  41. Dana (fd537d) — 1/23/2021 @ 9:28 am

    As usual, it’s a commie tick reliant on capitalism.

    frosty (f27e97)

  42. “FWIW, I feel exactly the same way about the 1619 nonsense, too. Pseudohistory with an agenda.”

    Your tax dollars didn’t pay for 1619, though.

    Davethulhu (f31045)

  43. Boom:

    The United States strongly condemns the use of harsh tactics against protesters and journalists this weekend in cities throughout Russia. Prior to today’s events, the Russian government sought to suppress the rights to peaceful assembly and freedom of expression by harassing protest organizers, threatening social media platforms, and pre-emptively arresting potential participants. This follows years of tightening restrictions on and repressive actions against civil society, independent media, and the political opposition.

    Continued efforts to suppress Russians’ rights to peaceful assembly and freedom of expression, the arrest of opposition figure Aleksey Navalny, and the crackdown on protests that followed are troubling indications of further restrictions on civil society and fundamental freedoms. Russians’ rights to peaceful assembly and to participate in free and fair elections are enshrined not only in the country’s constitution, but also in Russia’s OSCE commitments, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and in its international obligations under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

    We call on Russian authorities to release all those detained for exercising their universal rights and for the immediate and unconditional release of Aleksey Navalny. We urge Russia to fully cooperate with the international community’s investigation into the poisoning of Aleksey Navalny and credibly explain the use of a chemical weapon on its soil.

    Putin now: Damn Navalny for surviving that poison!

    Dana (fd537d)

  44. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 1/23/2021 @ 11:53 am

    You misrepresented what Harris said, frosty. She said wouldn’t take Trump’s word about a vaccine breakthrough, but she would take the word of experts like Fauci.

    Fair enough. I don’t agree but I understand your point. But then why have the conditional at all? There was no version of there being a vaccine for use by the public that didn’t have FDA approval and the support of experts. She wasn’t going to be in the position of taking a vaccine that only Trump approved of. The conditional had to have a purpose or why say it? Is there some other purpose besides raising mistrust in the vaccines?

    where did the reporter “ridicule any concern about the vaccines? I didn’t see it.

    In my comment I referenced the tone of the article. I didn’t say this was directly or literally done. If you don’t see it then you’ve probably approached the article from a different perspective. Also, fair enough. But the article opens with

    Anti-vaccine pseudoscience peddler

    so the author clearly wants that framed in the readers mind and ends with

    the Moderna vaccine, which has been declared safe for use by older people by the World Health Organization, the Food and Drug Administration, and dozens governments.

    Short version; anti-vaxers are complaining about a safe vaccine.

    Have you heard of any “irregular deaths”, let alone of a “wave” that arose from the Moderna vaccine?

    You’re doing the same thing the article is doing, i.e. limiting the issue to irregular deaths and a specific vaccine and then trying to establish that there are no issues with a specific vaccine or all of them generally.

    The Pfizer vaccine is linked to deaths in Norway and the Moderna vaccine is linked to some serious allergic reactions. In both cases there are articles showing up like this one hand waving the issue away as anti-vax nonsense.

    frosty (f27e97)

  45. nk (1d9030) — 1/23/2021 @ 12:18 pm

    That sounds like some off-label use.

    frosty (f27e97)

  46. Davethulu,

    Pretty nasty way to tar anyone who acknowledge the fact that people need a common bond to see themselves as a group. I expect it from the left. Projection is strong in that cult

    NJRob (cc5f02)

  47. Your tax dollars didn’t pay for 1619, though.

    The 1776 Project is best handled by the New York Post or a Gamnett that decides to go against grain using a Sunday Parade insert-like format.

    That said, keep the Garden of American Heroes and let future nominees be designated at ends of presidential terms like pardons. There was already an unfortunate application of the concept a few hours south, though.

    urbanleftbehind (3678bd)

  48. @NJRob@31 Are you willing to change your beliefs in order to strengthen our common culture? Most Americans are good with some abortion and some gun control and the gays, most Americans believe that diversity makes us stronger. Most Americans don’t have the same belief set that you do.

    Nic (896fdf)

  49. Nic (896fdf) — 1/23/2021 @ 3:04 pm

    You might want to mention that to the current D’s in power. JB, KH, and D leadership in general don’t pretend to common sense gun control and safe, legal, rare anymore. “The gays”, as you say, have also been kicked to the curb and the trans platform is twisting them into knots.

    frosty (fc141b)

  50. @52 I don’t know under what circumstances I might come across them. I’m not a Dem donor and I don’t even twitter,but if I should run into Harris in the airport or whatever and should we fall into a political conversation, I’ll try to remember your concerns. OTOH, I don’t really think we need to artificially force a common culture, it’s fine to let it develop organically. Sometimes more tacos and less steak and kidney pie is better. (have you had steak and kidney pie? Bleah.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  51. Fair enough. I don’t agree but I understand your point. But then why have the conditional at all?

    Because in the months prior to the debate, frosty, Trump touted HCQ as a “tremendous breakthrough” and “game changer” when the experts concluded no such thing. He also tried to peddle convalescent plasma as some kind of wonder drug when it really wasn’t. With that track record of bullsh-t, why should anyone take Trump–a non-scientist who is scarcely tethered to any facts–at his word?
    As for RFK Jr., his reputation as an anti-vaxxer nutjob precedes itself, and he didn’t do himself any favors when he made sh-t up about waves of suspicious deaths from the Moderna vaccine.

    You’re doing the same thing the article is doing, i.e. limiting the issue to irregular deaths and a specific vaccine and then trying to establish that there are no issues with a specific vaccine or all of them generally.

    No, you’re burden-shifting. The point is that RFK Jr. has no evidence and, like with all those who’ve alleged electoral fraud, it’s on the accuser to prove, not for the other guy to disprove.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  52. Where did you get that idea from? W gave us No Child Left Behind and he was the compassionate conservative. That was pretty far from “opposed to federal government intervention”.

    NCLB didn’t dictate the content of education, it set standards for basic competency in reading and math, aiming over the long run to assist schools that were not meeting their students’ needs.

    Nationwide standardized testing of primary and secondary students existed long before NCLB. I remember taking the tests when I was in elementary school.

    Dave (1bb933)

  53. RFK Jr is just doing the same thing the COVID fanatics did where they equated those who died from the virus with those who died while testing positive for the virus.

    Sucks, doesn’t it.

    NJRob (139fbc)

  54. Gawain’s Ghost, where’s my story, damn it?

    norcal (b4d7b1)

  55. Davethulhu (f31045) — 1/23/2021 @ 11:51 am

    Make that “Ein reich ein volk, Hair Furor!”

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  56. Dana, thank you for the wonderful story about the high school teacher and his Watergate project. It moved me. The one-line response from Spiro Agnew was hilarious. It sounds exactly like something Trump would say. Birds of a feather.

    norcal (b4d7b1)

  57. JFK is a legend, which is a nice way to say fake history, but the rest of the family, which has sustained itself with that legend for almost 60 years, is exceptional only in its collective tediousness. Not the brightest bulbs in the potato farm.

    nk (1d9030)

  58. is exceptional only in its collective tediousness

    Ha! I am so appropriating that.

    norcal (b4d7b1)

  59. Pretty nasty way to tar anyone who acknowledge the fact that people need a common bond to see themselves as a group.

    I thought the conservative philosophy was to view people as individuals, rather than members of some group.

    Your statement is a defense of identity politics. Black nationalists and La Raza would agree with it. So would white nationalists.

    Dave (1bb933)

  60. RFK Jr is just doing the same thing the COVID fanatics did where they equated those who died from the virus with those who died while testing positive for the virus.

    My neighbor died on Insurrection Day from CV19. She had COPD and pancreatic cancer, but she tested positive right after Christmas and suffocated to death, right around when the MAGA domestic terrorists stormed the Capitol Building. Were the doctors who concluded that her cause of death was CV19, are they “COVID fanatics”?
    And how does a positive test from a virus and determination of cause of death by medical professionals compare to the non-scientific partisan who made a career out of peddling junk science?

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  61. Yes Paul,

    And I had a peer die from cancer because she couldn’t get proper treatment due to nonstop fear taking over the hospital system.

    Thanks for your anecdote.

    The same junk science that tells every death to count as a COVID death if they test positive. It’s been discussed often enough that you cannot claim ignorance.

    NJRob (139fbc)

  62. @64 Is this the same Tucker who should not be held responsible for slandering people because he is not a person that people should take seriously? That Tucker? Could you find a story from someone whose news organization did not testify in court that they are an unserious person who cannot be held legally responsible for anything they say because they are so unserious. Maybe one whose organization didn’t testify in court that they were such liars that no viewer should believe a word they said?

    Nic (896fdf)

  63. “Sucks, doesn’t it.”

    The official death count for the US is 414,000. What do you think the “real” death count is?

    Davethulhu (f31045)

  64. I feel bad about the heated argument with my 89-year-old mother last night. Somehow we started discussing politics. I told her that Trump lost the election. She disagreed, and I exploded. My juices started flowing in a huge way.

    She repeated all the Trumper propaganda about how there were leftist infiltrators in the mob that stormed the Capitol, changed rules for voting, last year’s riots, etc. She said Trump had done so many good things. I acknowledged that he had done some good things (judges, de-regulation, tough on Iran), but that these good things had come at such a heavy price.

    Conspiracy theories abounded in her arguments, which should not be surprising because she’s been a dues-paying John Birch Society (JBS) member for about 50 years. She actually thinks the JBS has a firmer grasp of the truth than any other organization!

    I reminded her of something she had told me months ago after I got her a subscription to National Review, which is 100 times better than the Society periodical. She said she read an article in NR, but couldn’t tell if it was for or against Trump. Who cares? Politics should be about ideas, not people.

    My mother grew up a Mormon, but started to disbelieve the faith two or three decades ago. She has talked about how difficult it was to talk to my stepfather about religion, because all he had consumed was Mormon propaganda. I told her that talking to her about politics was akin to her discussing religion with him. I even pointed out the similarities between the Mormon church and the Birch Society. They are both monolithic organizations where the leader is there for life. They both have vast amounts of books and magazines to reinforce the faith. They both have little local gatherings to keep members in line. They both think they have a monopoly on the truth. And, as far as I know, neither has opened its books to let members know how much money the people at the top receive.

    An aside: There is one big difference between the two organizations. Mormons, for the most part, are fairly ordinary people. This is not the case with the Birchers. From my experience, they are by and large nuttier than Roseanne Barr’s macadamia orchard. (My mom is an exception. She is likeable, and thrives in social situations.)

    My mother likes to deal in absolutes. I think she finds comfort in knowing that she is firmly on the side of all truth and righteousness. There is no room for complexity or nuance. She thinks there’s an evil cabal in some back room hatching plans to enslave the world, and that the Birchers are the noble opposition to these bad guys. It occurred to me today what a great scam this all is. First, invent a boogeyman. Second, state that only you know how to deal with the boogeyman. And third, ask for money and support to fight the boogeyman.

    My mother has consumed countless Bircher books and magazines, and attended numerous Bircher-organized speeches. The Birchers have this little racket where they sell tickets to attend a speech given by somebody spouting the Bircher line. She even attended one of these gatherings on Thursday night, and she’s only weeks from receiving the Covid vaccine! The JBS should build some kind of shrine or memorial for her, because I can’t imagine a more faithful member among their ranks.

    After arguing for well over an hour, I remembered something Neil DeGrasse Tyson said: Anybody participating in an argument that lasts over five minutes is a fool. Yes, I was a fool. There is no changing my mother’s mind. Besides, at her advanced age, what’s the point?

    I am amazed at my mother’s vigor. Her mind is very sharp, and she argues as if she were 50. Still, it’s sad to see somebody who has believed conspiracy theories for the majority of her life, and has fallen for a false god like Trump.

    Okay. That was my best attempt at channeling Gawain’s Ghost. How did I do?

    norcal (b4d7b1)

  65. To be clear, what I wrote above is all true. It was not a fictional attempt to write like Gawain’s Ghost.

    norcal (b4d7b1)

  66. Dave (1bb933) — 1/23/2021 @ 5:02 pm

    I don’t disagree. I just think

    I thought conservatives were opposed to federal government intervention in primary/secondary education, and believed that local school boards should exercise control.

    is a bit over broad considering conservatives have shown a willingness to intervene to some degree.

    But this is sort of missing the point. The “I thought conservatives” formulation is supposed to be a backhanded accusation of hypocrisy. It doesn’t, or shouldn’t, work because even if you are a conservative tax dollars are going into it and it impacts all of us. As long as federal tax dollars are going into education intervention is happening to some degree and everyone, conservatives included, should be concerned about the return on investment.

    frosty (fc141b)

  67. @norcal. I’m sorry, it’s not usually much fun to get in a huge political disagreement with a close family member.

    @frosty Relatively little federal money goes into education and even less of it into gen-ed. Most federal funds go to partially fund federally mandated special education services.

    Nic (896fdf)

  68. Texas Supreme Court Silently Denies Alex Jones All Forms of Relief: Sandy Hook Families and Others Can Now Sue Conspiracy Theorist and InfoWars into the Ground
    ……..
    Without comment, the Lone Star State’s highest civil court found that America’s foremost conspiracy theorist, Alex Jones, and his flagship media outlet, InfoWars, are subject to liability in four separate defamation lawsuits filed over the past two-plus years. Those lawsuits were filed by parents of children who were killed during the Sandy Hook massacre and by a man Jones and his network falsely identified as the perpetrator of the Parkland massacre at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.
    ………
    Each of the Texas lawsuits seek damages in excess of $1 million.

    Jones repeatedly sought to have the filings dismissed during various stages of the legal process. Each time, the district courts and the appellate courts declined to toss the claims.

    Now, each of those four lawsuits can proceed on the merits.
    ……..
    Six additional Sandy Hook surviving families have lawsuits pending against Jones in Connecticut.
    >>>>>>>
    Couldn’t happen to a nicer guy.

    Rip Murdock (42fdfa)

  69. Dave (1bb933) — 1/23/2021 @ 5:12 pm

    I thought the conservative philosophy was to view people as individuals, rather than members of some group.

    You’re confusing conservative with some mixture of libertarian or classic liberal. But even classic individualism is more about prioritizing individuals over the group. Conservative philosophy does not deny the importance of having common traditions, institutions, and beliefs. In fact, preserving and maintaining those is a defining characteristic of conservatism.

    Your statement is a defense of identity politics. Black nationalists and La Raza would agree with it. So would white nationalists.

    Ah, this is why we’re in the land of pretzel logic. It’s a long way from recognizing the importance of social groups and common bonds to identity politics.

    frosty (fc141b)

  70. Nic (896fdf) — 1/23/2021 @ 6:33 pm

    @frosty Relatively little federal money goes into education and even less of it into gen-ed. Most federal funds go to partially fund federally mandated special education services.

    Does that mean no one should be interested in it? If it’s no big deal can we make it zero and get rid of the Dept of Ed? Every time that gets suggested there seems to be pushback for some reason.

    frosty (fc141b)

  71. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 1/23/2021 @ 5:14 pm

    My neighbor died on Insurrection Day from CV19.

    The way you describe it I’m surprised they didn’t list Insurrection Day as the cause of death.

    frosty (fc141b)

  72. The same junk science that tells every death to count as a COVID death if they test positive.

    Noted, your feeling that mistakes in classifying CV19 deaths is “junk science”. That is the intellectually dishonest answer I expected from you, Rob.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  73. The only ethnic surname I can say unequivocally is as “American” as Smith and Jones, is Kowalski. Does anybody know any others?

    nk (1d9030)

  74. norcal,

    I’m sorry about the conflict. It’s particularly difficult when it’s a parent, I think. I was on the verge of something similar with one of my parents today but through hard-learned experienced, was able to head it off at the pass by simply saying “We already know we disagree, so there is no point in discussing Trump anymore. Say, how’s the weather out there anyway??” Parent laughed, and we moved on. But it took a number of heated debates to get to the point where I just refuse to engage. It’s better for our relationship. Good luck with finding a way to disengage. And not engage when you know it’s futile.

    Btw, I did think I was reading GG until I got to the end of your comments.

    Dana (fd537d)

  75. The only ethnic surname I can say unequivocally is as “American” as Smith and Jones, is Kowalski. Does anybody know any others?

    Any Native American name. I mean, it was 20k years before “America”, but being here when we named the country around them counts.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  76. @Frosty@74 People should be interested in it regardless. Whether or not we should get rid of the Dept of Ed? *shrug* What the Department of education does it deal with loans and grants at the college level, collect data, accredit schools and universities, and provide oversight to make sure school are following federal guidelines.

    Getting rid of it would make more of a difference in some states than in others. California has a lot of state and local oversight, so it probably wouldn’t make that much difference to me. However, in other places there isn’t any, and it would make a ton of difference. Frex, my mother is a special education teacher and she briefly taught elementary sped in TX in the 70s. They didn’t have any oversite at the time. In her classroom, there was no paper, no pencils, no crayons, no textbooks. She had one pair of teacher scissors and a teacher’s edition textbook she was supposed to teach out of. When she asked the principal for things he told her no and that it didn’t matter because they were all little dummies and n-words anyway. She should tell them to sit down at their desks, shut up, and listen and if they misbehaved she should have them take their belt off so she could strap them with it. She spent part of her own salary on lined and construction paper, pencils, crayons, and a couple of pairs of kid scissors and scrounged some curriculum from other teachers. It would be very unusual for that to happen today, because there’s oversight.

    Also, it’s nice for low income school to have title 1 funding to pay for field trips and school supplies for poor kids and maybe be able to hire an extra instructional aide or two.

    Probably getting rid of the Dept of Ed would make the most difference at the university level.

    Nic (896fdf)

  77. ‘An incredible scale of tragedy’: The U.S. records 25 million virus cases.
    The United States has recorded 25 million coronavirus cases, reaching the threshold Saturday afternoon, according to a New York Times database.

    Experts say that as staggering as that figure is, it significantly understates the true number of people in the country who have been infected and the scope of the nation’s failure to contain the spread of the virus.

    The official tally works out to about one in every 13 people in the country, or about 7.6 percent of the population.
    ………
    As a result, deaths in the country have also inexorably risen, with more than 414,000 linked to the virus. That’s one death out of roughly every 800 people in the country.

    Starting with the first reported case in the country last January, it took the United States more than nine months to reach 10 million cases. That milestone was passed on Nov. 8, just before a holiday surge that accelerated the rate of new infections and brought weeks of record-shattering hospitalizations and deaths. By the last day of 2020, the country had added another 10 million cases in just seven weeks.

    Getting to 25 million took about three more weeks, after a surge that peaked at more than 300,000 recorded daily cases before retreating a bit in early January. …….

    Experts now fear that any signs of progress could be undone by the emergence of new variants that appear to be more contagious. ……..
    ……..
    Epidemiologists say the true number of infections is probably much higher than the official tallies. Even with much more widespread testing now than in the pandemic’s early months, they say, many people who have never experienced symptoms may not have been tested or counted.

    Ira Longini, a professor of biostatistics at the University of Florida, estimates that about 20 percent of Americans have had the virus — more than twice the number that is reported. Statistical modeling that he recently completed for Florida suggests that one-third of the state’s population has been infected at some point, quadruple the reported share.
    ……..
    The proportion can vary widely from place to place. In Dewey County, S.D., almost one in four residents has tested positive, but in San Juan County, Wash., only one in 200 has.

    ……..The top five (metropolitan areas) are Yuma, Ariz.; Gallup, N.M.; Bismarck, N.D.; and Lubbock and Eagle Pass, Texas.

    The metro areas with the greatest number of new cases per capita in the past two weeks ……. are Laredo and Eagle Pass, Texas; Inland Empire, Calif.; Jefferson, Ga.; and Oxnard, Calif.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (42fdfa)

  78. Capitol attack will spur broad crackdown on domestic extremists
    …….
    These conspiracy-minded, far-right potential threats are police officers and firefighters, Realtors and bartenders, even public officials from across the country, emboldened by the affirmation of President Donald Trump and each other to publicly espouse racist views or commit violence against the government, analysts say.

    ……. Law enforcement and security officials, experts say, will face significant legal, political and cultural hurdles to battle a disease that seems to have taken hold in the nation’s nervous system.
    ……..
    “We have overlooked, not just over the last four years, but much longer than that some of the extremists within this country,” said Sean Joyce, a former FBI special agent who served as deputy director from 2011 to 2013. Now, he said, different strains, including anti-government groups, white supremacists and militant separatists have “coalesced and become a much greater force than they were.”
    …….
    The Jan. 6 incident has drawn comparisons to 9/11, though officials say it is unlikely to bring the kind of fundamental changes to federal law enforcement as did the carnage of that day. …….

    The Capitol riot is unlikely to be as pivotal an event. Despite what happened, 139 House Republicans and eight Senate Republicans supported at least one objection to counting electoral votes that showed Biden had won, though the events caused a handful to reverse prior plans to do so. Trump deceived tens of millions of people into believing the election was stolen from him and his supporters, and some portion of them probably felt — and still believe — that an uprising is warranted, analysts say. Law enforcement cannot fix that problem with more arrests.
    ………
    John Brennan, who served as CIA director and White House homeland security adviser in the Obama administration, said domestic extremists have become radicalized in much the same way as members of al-Qaeda and other foreign terrorists, fed a steady diet of disinformation and taught that violence is justified to achieve political ends.
    …….
    “How do you uncover these types of incubating threats while at the same time not violating or infringing upon those principles that we’re trying to protect?” Brennan asked. “It was a problem after 9/11. It is even more so now, because you’re talking about U.S. citizens and persons.”

    The First Amendment prevents law enforcement from surveilling or investigating Americans based solely on their political views, even if the views are racist or anti-government. While the law makes it a crime to provide “material support” to specially designated foreign terrorist organizations, there is no parallel for domestic groups that harbor extreme positions. There is not even a particular criminal charge for domestic terrorism, though the concept is defined in federal law.
    ……..
    Dozens of civil rights groups have publicly opposed a new law, fearing that it could be used to unfairly target people of color and Muslims, and called on the FBI and the Justice Department to use existing laws and authorities to combat white supremacists and other extremists.
    ……..
    Violent extremism has long been a feature of American politics, sometimes with fatal consequences. Timothy McVeigh, whose 1995 bombing of a federal building in Oklahoma City killed 168 people, had anti-government views. Unabomber Ted Kaczynski, whose mail-bomb attacks killed three and injured 24, hated modern society.

    But Trump and his rhetoric, analysts say, has posed particular problems for law enforcement. After the white supremacist rally in Charlottesville descended into violence and a woman was killed, the president said there were “very fine people on both sides” — seeming to lend support to the racists who had marched on the city. Pressed to condemn white supremacy at a debate last year, Trump instead told the Proud Boys, a far-right group with a history of violence, to “stand back and stand by,” emboldening extremists online who viewed his words as indication that they had the president’s support.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (42fdfa)

  79. If the GOP wants a future, it must look in the mirror
    Joe Biden is president in large part because Republicans have been incapable of growing the GOP to better reflect the changing demographics in the United States. We won’t be able to change that without addressing the epidemic of misinformation that has infected the party and realigning our party’s actions based on our values.

    Republicans have lost seven of the last eight national popular votes, and it only took four years for us to lose the House, Senate and the White House. Republicans aren’t going to achieve electoral success by being seen as the party that defends QAnon extremists who advocate the murder of the former vice president. Nor will we see success by supporting white supremacists who call a Black police officer the n-word while that police officer puts his life on the line to protect democracy. Every Republican on the ballot in 2022 will face campaign attack ads that affiliate them with the domestic terrorists who charged the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6.

    If the party wants a future, the elected officials, pundits and activists who claim to be its members must stop peddling conspiracy theories and drive out those who continue to do so. Republicans must be honest and do the right thing based on conservative values, not the thing that leads to more clicks, comments or shares on social media.
    ………
    ……… [I]f you elevate a flag that has someone’s name on it to the same level that you elevate your national flag, then you are not a patriot; you are part of a cult. When we put our hands on our hearts, we pledge allegiance to a flag, not an individual. The flag represents a nation founded on a perpetual goal to form a more perfect union, not a commitment to any one person.

    The events of the past weeks show that we are far from perfect. We have given our enemies around the world fewer reasons to fear us and our allies fewer reasons to love us. If Republicans want to change their persistent popular vote losses at the national level, then we must realign our actions with our values.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (42fdfa)

  80. RIP Walter Bernstein (101).

    Rip Murdock (42fdfa)

  81. https://lidblog.com/biden-job-killing-president/

    On his first day in office, Biden, the job-killing President, killed over 70,000 jobs and counting. By Day Two, he killed even more. It was the same ridiculous plan advanced by Obama – that going “green” would produce more jobs at higher pay. It didn’t. It did the opposite – several “green” energy companies went bankrupt – Solyndra is a case in point.

    By 2012, twenty-five “green” solar companies went under. Solar power a) kills wildlife at an alarming rate, and b) doesn’t produce enough power to make it feasible for total reliance, especially in states where the wind doesn’t continually blow.

    Killing the jobs Republicans won’t kill.

    NJRob (b838ca)

  82. @85 @NJRob Whoever wrote your article is out-dated on current solar usage (my guess would be by about 8 years given the vintage of the talking points in the article). Panels are being put onto houses out here at a million miles an hour. It’s created a bunch of blue collar jobs and it allows people to take charge of their own power production, reducing reliance on power companies and government infrastructure. In fact, most of the local companies are booked out for weeks or months before they can take a new job. Solar currently employs more than 40,000 people

    Nic (896fdf)

  83. “Killing the jobs Republicans won’t kill.”

    Returning to the Paris Climate Accord will cost even more jobs as globalists will be allowed to dictate what American companies do. The high cost of energy during the Obama administration nearly strangled American taxpayers and companies.

    NJRob, do you know what the Paris Climate Accord actually does? The article author clearly does not.

    Davethulhu (f31045)

  84. “Solar power a) kills wildlife at an alarming rate, and b) doesn’t produce enough power to make it feasible for total reliance, especially in states where the wind doesn’t continually blow.”

    I overlooked this in NJRob’s initial post. I find this very interesting, because I wasn’t aware that wind blowing was necessary for Solar power.

    Davethulhu (f31045)

  85. I cut off the line about windmills. You’re welcome to go read it.

    Now about killing almost 100k jobs on day 1… crickets.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  86. On his first day in office, Biden, the job-killing President, killed over 70,000 jobs and counting. By Day Two, he killed even more. It was the same ridiculous plan advanced by Obama – that going “green” would produce more jobs at higher pay. It didn’t. It did the opposite – several “green” energy companies went bankrupt – Solyndra is a case in point.

    A. Where did he pull 70k out of… I can guess, but there is zero source other than ass-facts. Keystone XL (Keystone has been complete for years. XL adds 33 permanent jobs, up to 7k temp jobs potentially, currently… 1,000, which you may note is less than 70,000) is phase 4. It’s not good to layoff a thousand people that we’re going to have to pay, but that is not 2hat the OP is lying about.

    B. I’d like to see what/how/where he’s equating Solyndra with any of this.

    C. Biden’s creating jobs too, federal temp ones… I’m ok with that in place of direct payment to stay home…but private sector SMB assistance would be better,but Covid-19 is the problem creating downstream effects.

    D. He’s had 2 days, I’ll give him some time, they appear to be focusing on the thing that is the primary economic problem. April will be the month where you’ll see direct impact of remediation efforts accelerating.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  87. @NJRob@89 You must’ve missed the discussion on the pipeline and fracking earlier this week. The pipeline has been mired in the courts due to eminent domain and water issues as well as non-permitted route change issues. There isn’t anyone working on it, so no jobs are being killed. And Biden isn’t canceling current federal fracking contracts, he’s just not issuing new ones for the next two months. So all current jobs are still in place and none of them have been killed. Your article author isn’t current and/or isn’t accurate and/or is click-baiting.

    Nic (896fdf)

  88. I still say Nuclear is the bridge to lowering the carbon footprint, too bad I’m the only one.

    Solar/wind is already getting pretty competitive with fossil fuels, so says Texas.

    I don’t think there is a 100% renewable option being proposed anytime before 2035,which means 2060.

    To finish a transition, you must start to plan sometime.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  89. “I cut off the line about windmills. You’re welcome to go read it.”

    The sentence I quoted is directly from the article, and makes no sense. The article is bad and the author is a moron.

    “Now about killing almost 100k jobs on day 1… crickets.”

    That figure is as BS as the rest of the article.

    Davethulhu (f31045)

  90. The same junk science that tells every death to count as a COVID death if they test positive.

    There are undoubtedly ambiguities in classifying the cause of some deaths, when there are multiple contributing factors.

    But the total number of people who die (for whatever reason) is counted very accurately since, if someone is dead, they’re dead.

    And the number of people who died in the last year is WAAAAAY above the number expected from other recent years when there was no pandemic.

    According to the CDC, the total number of “excess deaths” since February 2020 is somewhere in the range of 366,000 to 492,000.

    Not all of the excess deaths are directly due to COVID-19, but if you wanted to understand why so many more people died last year, isn’t it plausible that the single most important cause is probably the disease that has intensive care units overflowing with people on ventilators, unable to breathe?

    If not COVID, then what do you suppose killed all those extra people? antifa? The adrenochrome industry?

    Dave (1bb933)

  91. As this is an open thread, and because I am tired and sick of politics, also because there has been a lot of talk about education here, I’m going to tell a story. This one is for norcal but also for Dana. It wouldn’t be funny if it wasn’t true.

    Some of the happiest years of my life were spent teaching junior high science in the mid-to-late 1980s. The campus actually had been the old high school I graduated from in 1979. The district had expanded and built a new high school while I was away at UT Austin and converted the old one to a junior high. Since it was only two blocks down the street from my condo, I could walk to work as easily as I walked to school, so I wanted to teach there.

    However, to get a position at this junior high I had to take two courses in geology (physical and historical) over the summer at PAU Edinburg. The reason why was because science teachers had to be certified to teach 6th grade physical, 7nth grade life and 8th grade earth science. I had the requisite coursework in chemistry, physics and of course biology, but my concentration was is ethology (animal behavior), botany, and evolutionary theory. I didn’t study ‘rocks for jocks’ at UT, so I took the courses at PAU to get the job. Learned a lot actually, made me wish I had studied geology earlier.

    My first assignment was earth science. I was determined to provide my students with the best education possible, college level in junior high. These kids were just as bored with rocks and minerals as I was, but when we got to meteorology their interest peaked, because the weather had a direct impact on their lives.

    So I wrote a six-week lesson plan, covering everything from ocean and wind currents, cloud formations, storm patterns, hurricanes, tornadoes and water spouts, all leading up to a final lecture on thunderstorms. It was probably the best lecture I ever gave, because it made me a legend.

    I began with a poem. https://www.best-poems.net/poem/now-by-e-e-cummings.html I had photos, charts, diagrams, the works. Students, this is how thunderstorms form. Cold, dry air blows in, pushing warm, wet air up, forming a large, dark cloud called a cumulonimbus. When the weight of the water in the clouds becomes too heavy, gravity pulls it down in a crashing rain, causing an electrical disturbance resulting in lightning; thunder is caused by lightning breaking the sound barrier.

    I walked home that Friday afternoon and went out to check my mail box. A cold breeze was blowing in, and sure enough a large, dark cloud was forming. Then crash, bang, boom! a thunderstorm. I stood there and watched in total amazement. Wow, what a coincidence. This was a textbook thunderstorm I had just given a lecture about. I wondered if my students were paying attention.

    When I walked into class on Monday, they were all staring at me. They really believed I could not only predict but create the weather. I became as a god unto them.

    Continued below.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  92. Dana, thank you for that wonderful video, and Vin for his wonderful call (as usual), of the Hank Aaron homer. Two masters at work.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  93. I’ve spent the last few days building my next computer. For some reason (mostly Intel’s sloth) I’ve not felt the need until now. AMD Ryzen 7 5800, 8 cores @4.7GHz, water-cooled, 64B ram, 2 fast M.2 SSDs. Still waiting for a next-gen video card though. Some things remain the same: I think that sadists design motherboards, tying to figure out the most inaccessible and finger-destroying places to put things like SATA ports.

    I actually have purpose for this besides playing video games.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  94. @5: What powers does the US government have to codify abortion law, especially if the Supreme Court recants on it being a constitutional right? Regulating interstate commerce? I would think that having/not having an abortion is about as personal as something can get.

    Call it necessary and proper with respect to Medicaid and Obamacare? If they can do this can they, for example, require abortions in cases of Down’s Syndrome?

    I would hope that this is a federalization that would cross the line at the Supreme Court, but you never know.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  95. That should have been @4.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  96. The moral and intellectual poverty of the so-called Republican Party becomes more evident every day. They have gone beyond pandering and turning the tricks their own selves.

    Yes, you are right. They have become as Democrats. Right now both parties suck. Biden cancelled Keystone XL as a sop to the Greens, but it threatens to throw parts of Canada into deep recession and many provincial leaders are beyond pissed off.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  97. I chanced into some information about the Canadian tar sands in the Northwest Territories. Interesting stuff. Not only did the oil bubble up into the ground like Jed Clampett’s when he was shooting at some food, but there were also jets of gas like natural Bunsen burners. In places where rivers through the tar sands, the voyageurs — river traders and freighters — would beach, and light those gas jets and boil down the crude to tar to cover the hulls of their boats, as well as taking barrels of the crude for later.

    nk (1d9030)

  98. *bubble up from the ground*

    nk (1d9030)

  99. Returning to the Paris Accords won’t kill jobs, because all we have to do is write some checks and reduce carbon emissions as we are already doing, but his $15 an hour minimum wage proposal will kill jobs and businesses.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  100. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 1/23/2021 @ 4:48 pm

    Because in the months prior to the debate, frosty, Trump touted … why should anyone take Trump–a non-scientist who is scarcely tethered to any facts–at his word?

    Exactly my point. Her statement was meant to associate a vaccine released under Trump with these other things and call it into question. Like I said, no one would have to take him at his word. What’s more the “trust the experts” line was part of the JB/KH campaign. Her entire statement is in a political context and is meant to establish the idea that the public can’t trust a vaccine released during the Trump administration.

    No, you’re burden-shifting. The point is that RFK Jr. has no evidence and, like with all those who’ve alleged electoral fraud, it’s on the accuser to prove, not for the other guy to disprove.

    Each side has to support it’s own arguments. No one gets a free ride with “I follow the news but I’m not aware of” exceptions. I’m not saying anything substantially different from Bret Weinstein and others who’ve noted that there are risks with the vaccine and that any discussion of those risks is framed as anti-vax.

    frosty (f27e97)

  101. And the number of people who died in the last year is WAAAAAY above the number expected from other recent years when there was no pandemic.

    Agreed, Dave, and I think it’s disingenuous among certain hyperpartisans who, because classification errors are made (and subsequently corrected), justify a bogus equivalency with anti-vaxxer pseudoscience. And it’s not as if there aren’t procedures in place for classifying CV19 deaths on death certificates.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  102. Nic (896fdf) — 1/23/2021 @ 7:21 pm

    That is a very good argument for why people, conservatives included, are interested in federal intervention in education.

    Any chance we can agree that we agree and just acknowledge the original comment as a backhanded insult?

    frosty (f27e97)

  103. frosty, you’re still mischaracterizing Harris. She explicitly stated that she’d be first in line if Fauci gave it a thumbs up, while taking a jab at Trump’s credibility. You saw the quote. It had nothing to do with downtalking a vaccine under his administration because Fauci is under his administration.

    Each side has to support its own arguments.

    Agreed, which is why it was appropriate to challenge Kennedy’s. It’s burden-shifting to tell the tell the reporter that he/she must form a fully-developed counter-argument before questioning another’s veracity. The subject was Kennedy, not the journalist.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  104. Rip Murdock (42fdfa) — 1/23/2021 @ 8:26 pm

    The riots in all the state capitals on Inauguration Day by Trumpers? Nope. On the other hand, Antifa? Yep.

    Press coverage for the imagined 2nd coming of the confederacy? Yep. Press coverage of the actual violence? Nope.

    It’s odd how everyone who played the “don’t you dare accuse me of being soft on Antifa” card after the capital are quiet on the continuing Antifa violence.

    frosty (f27e97)

  105. Returning to the Paris Accords won’t kill jobs

    The US could return our CO2 production to long-ago levels by mandating an end to burning coal for energy and subsidizing the replacement of all coal-fired energy with natural gas.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  106. The US could return our CO2 production to long-ago levels by mandating an end to burning coal for energy and subsidizing the replacement of all coal-fired energy with natural gas.

    Yes, that and ramping up nuclear energy, which Biden actually favors.

    Paul Montagu (6b202c)

  107. Not counting the final 8 weeks of 2020, 334,000 more US residents died in 2020 than in all of 2019. Scaling that number up you would get 400,000 extra deaths in 2020, which is quite in line with reported Covid-caused deaths.

    https://usafacts.org/articles/preliminary-us-death-statistics-more-deaths-in-2020-than-2019-coronavirus-age-flu/

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  108. Yes, that and ramping up nuclear energy, which Biden actually favors.

    Yes, although he ignores the science and is blocking fracking.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  109. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 1/24/2021 @ 9:04 am

    you’re still mischaracterizing Harris

    As I said, I understand your point. I just don’t agree with it. Taking a jab at Trump in this context has the effect of undermining trust in the vaccine. This wasn’t limited to KH. We’ve discussed here the timing of the vaccine announcements around the election.

    In any other context there’d be someone here saying of course it made sense to delay the announcements because any vaccine released under Trump shouldn’t be trusted.

    We’re only going back and forth on this because the narrative has shifted.

    frosty (f27e97)

  110. It wasn’t only Kamala Harris. Doctors, hospitals, and sundry healthcare professionals had stopped trusting anything that came out of Trump’s CDC by June that I remember, and probably earlier.

    nk (1d9030)

  111. https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p1218-overdose-deaths-covid-19.html

    Things ignored and embargoed contributing to excess deaths for $200 Alex.

    And just extrapolate the rest of the year with a continued lockdown.

    NJRob (a37ae1)

  112. https://www.bizpacreview.com/2021/01/24/you-cant-make-this-stuff-up-bezos-amazon-fight-mail-in-union-voting-only-in-person-is-valid-and-fair-1020594/

    Suddenly Bezos realizes mail-in voting is ripe for abuse and fraud. Will this be reported on his blog, the Washington Post?

    NJRob (a37ae1)

  113. @Frosty@106 I can definitely agree to agree. And I definitely didn’t intend my first comment on the topic to be an insult and I definitely wasn’t insulted by your first comment on the topic. So from by end, I think we’re good. 😛

    Nic (896fdf)

  114. The much nicer Dana quoted:

    The United States strongly condemns the use of harsh tactics against protesters and journalists this weekend in cities throughout Russia. Prior to today’s events, the Russian government sought to suppress the rights to peaceful assembly and freedom of expression by harassing protest organizers, threatening social media platforms, and pre-emptively arresting potential participants. This follows years of tightening restrictions on and repressive actions against civil society, independent media, and the political opposition.
    Continued efforts to suppress Russians’ rights to peaceful assembly and freedom of expression, the arrest of opposition figure Aleksey Navalny, and the crackdown on protests that followed are troubling indications of further restrictions on civil society and fundamental freedoms. Russians’ rights to peaceful assembly and to participate in free and fair elections are enshrined not only in the country’s constitution, but also in Russia’s OSCE commitments, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, and in its international obligations under the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights.

    Are there no mirrors in the Biden Administration?

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  115. Yes, although he ignores the science and is blocking fracking.

    Biden is blocking new fracking permits on federal lands, and not blocking any of it on private property. Only 12% of all fracking occurs on federal property. I’m not thrilled with it but, provided he holds to his pledge about private property, I don’t see this being a crimp on natural gas production.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  116. And just extrapolate the rest of the year with a continued lockdown.

    That’s an innumerate comment because the 81,000 figure is for the 12 months ending in May 2020, about ten weeks into the tanking of the economy. Maybe the death rate is higher since May 2020, and maybe the total for the 12 months ending December 2020 is higher than as of May 2020, but the link is silent to that.
    The CDC was under Azar and Trump as of December 2020, so the “embargo” is on them.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  117. Taking a jab at Trump in this context has the effect of undermining trust in the vaccine.

    That’s your perception, frosty, not mine.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  118. Gary Kasparov cautions that by not specifically naming Putin in the State Dept. rebuke of Russia is to enable things to continue on as they have. He must be publicly named in any condemnation by the U.S.

    Dana (fd537d)

  119. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 1/24/2021 @ 9:04 am

    She explicitly stated that she’d be first in line if Fauci gave it a thumbs up

    This doesn’t really save her quote. Fauci has shown himself to be more political than objective expert. Both sides rely on him when he agrees with them and don’t when he doesn’t. JB/KH have signaled that “trust the experts” means “trust the experts we agree with”. Her comment remains a political statement, i.e. you can only trust a vaccine under JB/KH.

    frosty (d3ce5c)

  120. Yah Liz Cheney:

    Florida Republican Rep. Matt Gaetz plans to rally with local Republicans in Cheyenne on Thursday to urge the Wyoming Republican congresswoman to step down as a result of her voting in favor of Trump’s second impeachment and accusing him of “betrayal” to the office of the presidency.

    In a tweet promoting the event, Gaetz said, “I do not want her job. I unequivocally am not seeking a position in House Leadership. I also know Wyoming can do better.”

    A Cheney spokesperson shot back at Gaetz, telling the Washington Examiner, “Rep. Gaetz can leave his beauty bag at home. In Wyoming, the men don’t wear make-up.”

    Dana (fd537d)

  121. In Wyoming, the men don’t wear make-up.”

    Forgetting rodeo clowns? Sounds like somebody doesn’t know Wyoming as well as they think.

    frosty (168303)

  122. Fauci has shown himself to be more political than objective expert.

    Dude, he’s literally an expert on epidemiolgy, working at NIH since Nixon. This is more about your feelings and perceptions than the facts of his experience, thanks in no small part to a pro-Trump propaganda industry that worships Trump and attacks anyone who even looks crosswise or dares to contradict him.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  123. I’m not thrilled with it but, provided he holds to his pledge about private property, I don’t see this being a crimp on natural gas production.

    On his own, he can’t do squat about private lands. Probably not about old permits either. It’s not something he chose to allow. What he DOES have control over, he blocks.

    His feel and talk are going in different directions. I expect that he will talk about nuclear and do nothing, at best.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  124. *His feeT and talk are going in different directions.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  125. Dude, he’s literally a embedded bureaucrat, working at NIH since Nixon.

    FIFY. He has never had a job outside of the NIH since residency. He hasn’t treated a patient for a disease since Nixon, either. But he’s got a lot of theory and a lot of public health programming.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  126. Fauci lied to the American people, on behalf of the state’s interests, about masks. This leaves him with zero credibility in my book. He has shown he will lie if told to do so, or it he judges it in the government’s interest.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  127. The better-looking Dana commented:

    Gary Kasparov cautions that by not specifically naming Putin in the State Dept. rebuke of Russia is to enable things to continue on as they have. He must be publicly named in any condemnation by the U.S.

    Did Господин Kasparov tell us how specifically naming Vladimir Vladimirovich would make things different?

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  128. 5. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 1/23/2021 @ 9:16 am

    We know that Milley issued a statement for no overt reason that the US military would defend and uphold Constitution, so my guess is that Trump was looking pliable DoD folks to do…well, something. What else?

    I think that was pre-emptive. After all, Mike Flynn had called for a declaration of martial law. Trump wasn’t close to doing that, but still…

    This possibly came at the urging of Democrats. He was probably reading speculation or maybe things promoted by people on the right. Milley just wanted to erase all doubts and ensure no colonels anywhere listened to any such orders.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  129. Mr Montagu wrote:

    Fauci has shown himself to be more political than objective expert.

    Dude, he’s literally an expert on epidemiolgy, working at NIH since Nixon. This is more about your feelings and perceptions than the facts of his experience, thanks in no small part to a pro-Trump propaganda industry that worships Trump and attacks anyone who even looks crosswise or dares to contradict him.

    Does being literally an expert on epidemiology somehow mean he is not a political animal?

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  130. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 1/24/2021 @ 1:12 pm

    Dude, he’s literally an expert on epidemiology, working at NIH since Nixon.

    Johnson. (Lyndon, not Andrew) He’s been the boss since Reagan,

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  131. Here’s an excerpt from Fauci’s 60 Minutes interview on March 8:

    FAUCI: Of course, but when you think “masks,” you should think of health care providers needing them and people who are ill. The people — when you look at the films of countries, and you see 85% of the people wearing masks, that’s fine. That’s fine. I’m not against it. If you want to do it, that’s fine.

    HOST: But it can lead to a shortage.

    FAUCI: Exactly, that’s the point. It could lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it.

    On March 27, he followed up with a news interview
    “When we say you don’t need to wear a mask, what we’re really saying is make sure you prioritize it first for the people who need the mask,” Fauci said. “In a perfect world, if you had all the masks you wanted, then you could get some degree of protection, but make sure you prioritize it well.”

    I think if you make a good faith effort to understand what he was saying rather than taking a snippet and spinning it in the worst possible way, it becomes a little difficult to characterize his statement(s) as a “lie”. Should we or should we not have had a priority preference?

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  132. Fauci lied to the American people, on behalf of the state’s interests, about masks. This leaves him with zero credibility in my book. He has shown he will lie if told to do so, or it he judges it in the government’s interest.

    No, he was wrong a year ago about masks, 10 months ago that message changed when he/they/we knew more. You see, additional data means that your initial conclusion might need to be adjusted.

    I don’t get the argument that since they didn’t know everything about a new thing when seeing the new thing the first time means that they aren’t allowed to learn things. It’s illogical, it ignores what learning means.

    So who would you have listened to last year other than Fauci, and literally every other person with a base of knowledge in the field? Scott Atlas, or Fauci? Vladimir “Zev” Zelenko, or Fauci? But of course it wasn’t just Fauci who amended their recommendation after more data was collected.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  133. Impeachment trial to keep National Guard troops at Capitol
    …….
    The contingency force will help protect the Capitol from what was described as “impeachment security concerns,” including the possibility of mass demonstrations coinciding with the Senate’s trial, which is slated to begin the week of Feb. 8.
    ……..
    Several National Guard units have seen their deployments extended involuntarily, though a majority of Guardsmen remaining in Washington will do so on a volunteer basis. Around 7,000 troops will continue to provide riot security through the beginning of February, with that number decreasing slightly to 5,000 by the time Trump’s impeachment trial begins.
    ……
    There is also some concern over potential unrest surrounding March 4, the date some QAnon conspiracy theorists believe Trump will be inaugurated for the second time.
    ……
    Morale is low among the troops, who described having to stand guard for hours at a time in full gear with limited access to food and water, waiting for hours to be transported to and from their hotels, and very little sleep. Many are washing socks and cold-weather undergarments in hotel bathroom sinks because they do not have access to laundry facilities.
    ……..
    Trump has not commented publicly since leaving office four days ago, but he has been assembling his defense team for the upcoming trial. If the former president urges his supporters to protest on his behalf, it could seriously strain law enforcement resources. Already, officials have set up a perimeter around the Capitol using 10-foot barricades with razor wire.

    The renewed security concerns come amid intensifying tensions between Capitol Police and the National Guard. Last week, Capitol Police officials forced troops to vacate congressional office buildings, where they were taking rest breaks during their shifts that often last 12 or 14 hours. POLITICO first reported that approximately 5,000 troops were packed into a parking garage on the Senate side of the Capitol, with temperatures dropping as the sun went down.

    The move prompted outrage from lawmakers from both parties, many of whom intervened with Capitol Police officials. The Guardsmen were eventually allowed back inside.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (42fdfa)

  134. AJ_Liberty (ec7f74) — 1/24/2021 @ 1:58 pm

    You may be compressing or truncating the timeline. He initially said masks weren’t needed based on the current understanding of how the virus is spread. He later changed his recommendation, citing updated information, but also admitted that he said his initial recommendation was because of supply concerns, i.e. not because of any scientific reason. You’ve picked up in the middle of the timeline when he’s trying to explain his earlier recommendations and recover some of his credibility.

    frosty (07645e)

  135. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 1/24/2021 @ 1:12 pm

    Dude, he’s literally an expert on epidemiolgy, working at NIH since Nixon. This is more about your feelings and perceptions than the facts of his experience, thanks in no small part to a pro-Trump propaganda industry that worships Trump and attacks anyone who even looks crosswise or dares to contradict him.

    frosty (07645e)

  136. @137-
    So who would you have listened to last year other than Fauci, and literally every other person with a base of knowledge in the field?
    Mike Lindell

    Rip Murdock (42fdfa)

  137. frosty (07645e) — 1/24/2021 @ 2:18 pm

    Accidentally hit submit before I was done and now I’ve decided I don’t really want to respond.

    I’m wondering if I should change my nickname to Dude now though. Or The Dude. Maybe A Dude.

    frosty (07645e)

  138. Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 1/24/2021 @ 2:08 pm

    The problem is that Fauci admits that they didn’t change the recommendations based on new scientific data. He really wants to claim that, and he strongly implies it. But he admits that the initial recommendation was based on first responders needing the masks more and the change was made after the supply chain was stable.

    People now want to rehabilitate Fauci and a number or organizations and individuals who made political statements under the guise of expert recommendations. That genie is going to be hard to get back in the bottle.

    frosty (07645e)

  139. Destructive protests by anarchists and extremists signal divided left as Biden administration begins
    The hundreds of far-left and anarchist demonstrators who gathered in protest mere hours after President Biden swore the oath of office Wednesday signal a fracturing on the left that could become a scourge for the new administration, political leaders and experts say.

    Some activists are carrying their destructive tactics into a new administration to voice rejection of centrist ideologies they believe will do little to address existential worries over climate change, economic inequality, foreign wars and racism. The vandalizing of the Oregon Democratic Party headquarters by extreme-left demonstrators on ­Inauguration Day has split Portland liberals, and federal agents’ launching of tear gas at crowds that descended on the city’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement headquarters produced scenes reminiscent of similar summer standoffs ordered by President Donald Trump.
    …….
    Violent and destructive activity among far-left groups has been increasing nationwide, according to a recent study by the Transnational Threats Project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, a nonprofit policy research group. Though nearly 70 percent of terrorist attacks and plots in the U.S. last year were committed by white supremacists and far-right militia groups, according to the study, the portion led by anarchist and anti-fascist groups rose to 20 percent from 8 percent in 2019.
    …….
    Fourteen people were arrested during several Inauguration Day protests in the city. Prosecutors are pursuing charges against four individuals, the Multnomah County District Attorney’s Office said in an email Friday — all in their 20s and alleged to have participated in a riot. Prosecutors cautioned that number may not be final, as an investigation is ongoing and police are expected to file additional reports.
    ……
    Portland’s protests undercut claims by Republicans that far-left groups have embraced Biden and have committed destructive acts in support of his policies, said Oren Segal, vice president of the Center on Extremism at the Anti-Defamation League.

    “There have been so many efforts to link Biden to the radical elements of the left, including antifa,” he said. “This demonstrates a disconnect between that messaging from the Trump administration and elected officials, who tended to lump together the left more broadly with these radical elements.”
    ……
    Three of those arrested as a result of the destruction in Portland on Wednesday were accused of damaging the offices of the Democratic Party of Oregon……after marching with a group that carried banners declaring “WE DON’T WANT BIDEN — WE WANT REVENGE” and “WE ARE UNGOVERNABLE.”
    …….
    Protesters who participated in Wednesday’s demonstrations in Portland said the people who perpetrated destruction and committed acts of vandalism at the Democratic Party’s building were a small number of more than 100 protesters who had gathered for a march meant as a left-wing rebuke of the Biden presidency.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (42fdfa)

  140. Another day w/o Covid vaccine and $2000 emergency Covid relief to suffering Americans. Presidn Plagiarist.

    And where is Nancy today; hairdresser appointment?

    Just because you’re a Catholic doesn’t mean Sunday is a day of rest; get your ass is gear, Geritol Joe.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  141. Portland’s protests undercut claims by Republicans that far-left groups have embraced Biden and have committed destructive acts in support of his policies

    That’s one claim. I’m not sure the signs and chants by “a small number of more than 100 protesters” undermine that claim.

    Another claim is that JB/KH have embraced them. Oddly I don’t see a significant number of NG deploying to parking garages in WA.

    frosty (f27e97)

  142. Oddly I don’t see a significant number of NG deploying to parking garages in WA.

    I wish Trump had deployed the regular Army.

    Rip Murdock (42fdfa)

  143. Mr Snowman wrote:

    I’m wondering if I should change my nickname to Dude now though. Or The Dude. Maybe A Dude.

    You might not be able. I used to change my adjectives with every comment, which our esteemed host allowed since I was obviously not sock-puppeting, but somehow the software has changed, and if I try under any other name, the comment gets trashed.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  144. Mr Murdock wrote:

    Oddly I don’t see a significant number of NG deploying to parking garages in WA.

    I wish Trump had deployed the regular Army.

    Would probably have been illegal under Posse Comitatus.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  145. Mr Murdock quoted:

    The hundreds of far-left and anarchist demonstrators who gathered in protest mere hours after President Biden swore the oath of office Wednesday signal a fracturing on the left that could become a scourge for the new administration, political leaders and experts say.

    Some activists are carrying their destructive tactics into a new administration to voice rejection of centrist ideologies they believe will do little to address existential worries over climate change, economic inequality, foreign wars and racism. The vandalizing of the Oregon Democratic Party headquarters by extreme-left demonstrators on ­Inauguration Day has split Portland liberals, and federal agents’ launching of tear gas at crowds that descended on the city’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement headquarters produced scenes reminiscent of similar summer standoffs ordered by President Donald Trump.

    The hard left were never going to accept even a hint of non-hard leftism. Hell, they’d probably think that Bernie Sanders was too moderate!

    It’s the middle of winter, so I don’t expect too much from the anarchist, but it’ll be interesting to see if we get another Summer of Hate.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  146. Just today there are certain statements that he made that I could consider half truths. I think he tries to justify the statements of his superiors and he says more than he knows. (and he interpreted President Biden’s instructions to tell the truth to refer only to not underplaying the effects of the epidemic in the United States.)

    Still, there are things you can pick up from him, provided you have a base of knowledge. You can learn from a not totally accurate man. It just requires introspection.

    Here he is today:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-of-face-the-nation-on-january-24-2021

    ANTHONY FAUCI, M.D. (Chief Medical Adviser to President Biden/Director, National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases): Good morning, Margaret. Good to be with you.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Boris Johnson, the prime minister of the United Kingdom, said Friday the B111 strain that was first detected in the U.K. may be associated with a higher degree of mortality. The day prior you said it did not. So, which is it? Is it more deadly?

    ANTHONY FAUCI: Well, the data that came out was after they had been saying all along that it did not appear to be more deadly. So that’s where we got that information. But when the British investigators looked more closely at the death rate of a certain age group they found that it was one to– per thousand we’ll say, and then it went up to 1.3 per thousand in a certain group. So, that’s a significant increase. So, the most recent data is in accord with the Brits are saying. We want to look at the data ourselves, but we have every reason to believe them. They’re a very competent group. So, we need to assume now that what has been circulating dominantly in the U.K. does have a certain degree of increase in what we call virulence, namely the power of the virus to cause more damage, including death.

    Of course it was obvious from the get-go that if it was more contagious it was also more deadly. Because the reason it would be more contagious that that it had a higher =tendency to infect cells. (you could have the reasons but they looked at the virus AND THEY SAW THAT COVERING OF THE SPIKE PROTEIN WAS LOOSER, and didn’t prevent it from infecting cells so much. And if it could infect cells quicker then the body’s immune system would not do so well in the race between the body’s immune system and the virus. although you could suppose that maybe both the immune response and the multiplication of the virus sped up equally.

    I’m nit sure what Dr. Fauci is talking about with 1.3 and 1.0. I know they’re made up numbers for purposes of illustration but I’m not sure what the British compared to what. They had to measure the progress from the same stage of the disease with standard Covid and the U.K. lineage to make such a statement. That’s hard to do. But, as I said, that’s what to expect once you hear it is more contagious.

    A little bit more concerning with the South African isolate, namely the mutant that is now prevalent in South Africa, particularly its negative impact on some of the monoclonal antibodies that have been given for treatment, that it can, in some respects knocks out their efficacy.

    I heard that said about the Eli Lilly antibody, but I didn’t hear any more. Not if it also the case for the Regeneron antibody cocktail nor any detail as to exactly how the Eli Lilly antibody is affected. Talk about eing transparent – they’re not. It may be in the more professional literature.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  147. And look at this:

    PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN (December 8): At least one hundred million COVID vaccine shots into the arms of the American people in the first hundred days. A hundred million shots in the first hundred days.

    (Begin VT)

    ANTHONY FAUCI (CBS SUNDAY MORNING): You know, the goal that’s been set, which I believe is entirely achievable, is to have a hundred million people vaccinated in the first hundred days.

    TED KOPPEL (CBS SUNDAY MORNING): Both vaccines?

    ANTHONY FAUCI (CBS SUNDAY MORNING): Primary and boost, yes.

    TED KOPPEL (CBS SUNDAY MORNING): Primary and boost?

    ANTHONY FAUCI (CBS SUNDAY MORNING): And boost, yes.

    TED KOPPEL (CBS SUNDAY MORNING): In a hundred days?

    ANTHONY FAUCI: Yes. Yes.

    (End VT)

    MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Doctor, in that exchange you seem to be promising a bit more than the President is. Can you just bottom line it? How many people will be fully vaccinated within a hundred days?

    ANTHONY FAUCI: Yeah. Yes, so– so let me clarify that, because there was a little bit of a misunderstanding. What we’re talking about is a hundred million shots in individuals. So, a shots– as in other words, when you get down to, let’s say, a certain part of the hundred days. At the end of a hundred days, you’re going to have some people who will have gotten both shots and some will still be on their first shots. What the President is saying a hundred million shots in the arms of people within a hundred days.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: So, reportedly the trans– transition team projections are that, that’s more like sixty-seven million people by April, by the end–

    ANTHONY FAUCI: Right.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: of a hundred days.

    ANTHONY FAUCI: Right.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Is that an accurate number?

    ANTHONY FAUCI: Yeah. Right. If– yeah. Yeah, that is– well, I– I haven’t done the math myself–

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay.

    ANTHONY FAUCI: –but it sounds very much like the accurate number where you’re having people who will have gotten two doses and then some that are still on their first dose. When you add them all up and you look at shots, it’s a hundred million shots in the arms of people within the first hundred days.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. So, the Trump administration’s Health and Human Services secretary said on this program in December that just with Pfizer and Moderna’s vaccine, they could get to a hundred million shots by the end of February. President Biden’s goal puts that benchmark out in April. Are you deliberately setting expectations low?

    ANTHONY FAUCI: No. No, that’s not the case, if you go back and look at the facts of actually what had been done in the first like thirty-eight days I believe that in the former administration, I think maybe two out of those days had reached a hundred million. And the average along that period of time was about four hundred and fifty thousand per day. This is hard. Now what we’ve got to realize that although more recently there have been a couple of days where you’ve had a million, that has been predominantly in areas that are relatively easy from the standpoint of getting that done in a nursing home or in a situation in a hospital setting. If you look forward with the challenges that we’ll be having getting it out into the community, that is not easily accessible, getting it to people that are not uniform in the sense–

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Mm-Hm.

    ANTHONY FAUCI: –of being health care providers or people in nursing homes, I still think that that challenge is really, first of all, it’s going to be a floor–

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.

    ANTHONY FAUCI: –not a ceiling. It’s– it’s not going to be easy to do that. I think there is this misperception out there, Margaret, because we’ve hit one million a day for a couple of days that when we get out into the community, it’s going to be really easy to do that. That’s not the case. It is going to be a challenge. I think it was a reasonable goal that was set. We always want to do better than the goal you’ve set —

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  148. @149-

    Would probably have been illegal under Posse Comitatus.

    Not under the Insurrection or Posse Comitatus Acts. The 7th Infantry and 1st Marine Divisions were sent to Los Angeles in 1992 during the Watts Riots following the acquittal of the LAPD officers involved in the Rodney King beating.

    Also, the Posse Comitatus Act is not a complete prohibition on the use of military forces on US soil. Here are examples of the use of regular military forces during civil disturbances since the Civil War.

    Rip Murdock (42fdfa)

  149. Rip Murdock (42fdfa) — 1/24/2021 @ 3:50 pm

    Are you suggesting Biden should send the army in to contain the current violence?

    frosty (f27e97)

  150. The thing about Fauci, he was slammed by Trump (and his adoring minions and superfans) for contradicting the president, but he was one of a handful who wasn’t corrupted by Trump.
    And speaking of corrupted, George Conway has a good round-up of Trump’s crimes in office. No one is above the law. He should be prosecuted. Trump, not Conway.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  151. @154-
    Are you suggesting Biden should send the army in to contain the current violence?
    At the very least he should federalize the Oregon and Washington State National Guards if the governors won’t take action, but I’m under no illusions he will. Trump’s own reaction was also too tepid.

    Rip Murdock (42fdfa)

  152. Mr Murdock wrote:

    Are you suggesting Biden should send the army in to contain the current violence?

    At the very least he should federalize the Oregon and Washington State National Guards if the governors won’t take action, but I’m under no illusions he will. Trump’s own reaction was also too tepid.

    Which, I’m guessing, would lead to immediate lawsuits by the Governors of Oregon and Washington, seeking an injunction against that. The President would eventually prevail, but that takes time.

    President Trump sent federal law enforcement personnel to protect some federal buildings, but Democratic state Governors and Democratic big city Mayors didn’t like that at all. Mayor Jim Kenney, who presided over 499 homicides in the City of Brotherly Love, the second highest all time, was adamant that he didn’t want them in foul, fetid, fuming, foggy, filthy Philadelphia.

    Of course, right now the only riots have been by fairly small contingents of the supposedly non-existent Antifa, but what happens this summer, when a white police officer (justifiably) kills a black criminal? You know it’ll happen!

    There were several days of Mostly Peaceful Protests™ in Philly when the police killed Walter Wallace, an insane a mentally disturbed black man who was advancing on the police with a knife. A knife-wielding white perpetrator was shot dead by two Grayson County sheriff’s deputies on the 23rd, and there were no protests at all.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  153. DCSCA wrote:

    Just because you’re a Catholic doesn’t mean Sunday is a day of rest; get your ass is gear, Geritol Joe.

    President Biden is a devout Catholic, who attended Mass this morning, but he’s an even more devout Democrat. Cardinal Wilton Gregory, the Archbishop of Washington, has apparently not instructed the priests of the archdiocese to deny the Eucharist to Mr Biden.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  154. The government reaction to the January 6 Pork Rind Rebellion — the arrests and the troops at the Capital — should have shown some comrades that when the governments wants to stomp down, it knows how to stomp down. Putting on a reality show pretending to stomp down … well, you need more than a lead actor reading lines on Twitter and TV news for that. You need good supporting actors, good writers, good producers, and good directors.

    nk (1d9030)

  155. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/24/2021 @ 3:08 pm

    Don’t worry. Biden promised that if GA voted blue those $2000 checks would go out immediately. I’m sure the checks are already in the mail.

    frosty (f27e97)

  156. Joe Biden a devout Catholic?
    Hey Joe, “you are the man!”

    Meanwhile real devout Catholics are denied the Eucharist because too devout!

    felipe (630e0b)

  157. Is there an iota of that theological difference between a priest placing the Eucharist in one’s hand and a priest placing the Eucharist in one’s mouth?

    Leviticus (617dc1)

  158. Joe Biden a devout Catholic?
    Hey Joe, “you are the man!”

    I’m sorry, felipe, truly I am, but after watching that whole video (I did!), I thought “celibacy is not a good thing” and then my mind went to this scene from “Good Morning, Vietnam!”

    nk (1d9030)

  159. @Leviticus@162 For mainline Catholics, not really. Old people and people from very traditional households used to take it on the tongue basically because that’s how they learned it when they were young. Anyone after abt the 50s learned taking it in the hand. Some people do prefer to take it on the tongue, but they aren’t usually dramatic about it. At this point, insisting on taking it on the tongue is performance Catholicism. And kneeling to take it on the tongue is showboating on top of that. This might be different in Eastern-Rite Catholic Churches, however, because they have slightly different liturgical traditions.

    Nic (896fdf)

  160. Oh, the Greeks use a communal spoon to receive the mixed bread and wine directly from the chalice, and there was almost some burning of heretics when some suggested the use of individual disposable plastic spoons.

    nk (1d9030)

  161. @157-
    As I said, I’m not under any illusions that Biden will do anything.

    Rip Murdock (42fdfa)

  162. @nk@163 He is going to get himself into trouble. You aren’t actually supposed to endorse or anti-endorse any specific candidates from the pulpit, as it’s an abuse of influence. Also, it’s generally considered a bad idea to have your breakdown directly in front of your congregation. And he could be interpreted as being a cause for scandal, which is also considered to be unacceptable. That doesn’t even touch on the fact that his sermon was against the gospel he was supposed to be addressing. So, um, all kinds of bad there. I imagine he’s going to have to have kind of discussion with his diocese’ Vicar to the Clergy.

    Nic (896fdf)

  163. I don’t know, Mr. Nic. My understanding of the Catholic Church is that it might have eased up on sinning but is still big on forgiving:

    Priest who live-streamed exorcism to overturn election will leave Diocese of Madison

    A statement sent to Madison diocese priests said Zuhlsdorf will relocate to “pursue other opportunities” and noted it was a mutual decision between Zuhlsdorf and Bishop Donald Hying.

    “After discussion between the Bishop of Madison and the Reverend Father John Zuhlsdorf, a mutual decision was reached not to renew the agreement with the Bishop of Velletri-Segni regarding a priest residing and ministering outside of his diocese of incardination,” read the statement.

    The statement also said that Zuhlsdorf, who has served in the diocese since 2014, remains in “good canonical standing.”

    😉

    nk (1d9030)

  164. @nk@168 It looks like he was visiting and they sent him home in disgrace. 😛
    Having to go see your Vicar of the Clergy is basically being called in to the priest version of HR.

    Nic (896fdf)

  165. Gawain’s Ghost,

    I loved your meteorology story. Looking forward to the second installment.

    norcal (b4d7b1)

  166. Bernie Sanders: Dems will use reconciliation to pass Covid relief ‘as soon as we possibly can’
    ……..
    (CNN’s Dana Bash on “State of the Union”) pointed out that Sanders had previously criticized Republicans’ use of reconciliation, saying the process should not be used “to enact major changes in social policy.” But he defended the decision to use reconciliation now, stating that Americans’ need for stimulus aid is emergent, while Republicans in 2017 used reconciliation “to give tax breaks to billionaires.”

    “Yes, I did criticize them for that. And if they want to criticize me for helping to feed children who are hungry or senior citizens in this country who are isolated and alone and don’t have enough food, they can criticize me,” Sanders said.
    ……..
    Sanders said Democrats cannot wait “weeks and weeks and months and months to go forward” on the $1.9 trillion relief package proposed by President Joe Biden, which Republicans have shown early opposition to and have vowed will not get 60 votes. When asked about the timeline for pushing the bill through, Sanders said “as soon as we possibly can.”
    ………

    Rip Murdock (42fdfa)

  167. Leviticus (617dc1) — 1/24/2021 @ 5:36 pm

    If there is not, then why does a priest have to deny someone the Eucharist? If there is then it should be placed on the tongue if the communicant wants it that way. It is their right by universal law.

    At this point, insisting on taking it on the tongue is performance Catholicism. And kneeling to take it on the tongue is showboating on top of that.
    Nic (896fdf) — 1/24/2021 @ 6:06 pm

    You are completely wrong, nic. The right to receive on the tongue is a universal law of the Church. Catholics understand that the Eucharist IS God. It is right and just to kneel. It is the Priest, in denying a communicant reception on the tongue, if they want it that way, who is in the wrong. It is bad enough that you display no piety, but calling someone else’s piety “showboating” is a serious defect of respect. Shame on you.

    felipe (630e0b)

  168. You aren’t actually supposed to endorse or anti-endorse any specific candidates from the pulpit, as it’s an abuse of influence. Also, it’s generally considered a bad idea to have your breakdown directly in front of your congregation. And he could be interpreted as being a cause for scandal, which is also considered to be unacceptable. That doesn’t even touch on the fact that his sermon was against the gospel he was supposed to be addressing. So, um, all kinds of bad there. I imagine he’s going to have to have kind of discussion with his diocese’ Vicar to the Clergy.
    Nic (896fdf) — 1/24/2021 @ 6:30 pm

    The Priest is completely right in what he did. If his local Ordinary takes exception to anything that this Priest did is completely his own opinion, and not a matter of faith or morals. If you don’t like what you saw, that is fine with me because that is your opinion. But don’t pretend that any offense against the Gospel was committed, because there wasn’t. WWJD? The same thing. Hey, if want a “nice” sermon instead of the truth, fine. Be a Karen if you want.

    felipe (630e0b)

  169. Rip Murdock (42fdfa) — 1/24/2021 @ 7:07 pm

    Reconciliation is the best way to avoid more things like harsher penalties for illegal streaming.

    Who wants to bet we get a clean covid relief bill with no “tax breaks to billionaires”?

    frosty (f27e97)

  170. @felipe@173 The video was recorded in July 2020. Priests aren’t supposed to be giving the Eucharist on the tongue because of Covid. Pay attention.

    Also, I see that you did not take our previous discussion to heart on the method by which one is supposed to hold one’s siblings in the Church accountable.

    Making a show of being OMG!MoreTrad! (holier) than other people when taking the Eucharist is praying loudly on the street corner.

    Nic (896fdf)

  171. God bless you felipe. Keep the faith strong and share the Word.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  172. @112. Swamp Creatures are slippery, aren’t they. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  173. @felipe@174 Except he wasn’t completely right. It’s against ecclesiastical law for a priest to endorse (or disendorse) a candidate from the pulpit. He can’t do that in his role as a priest. If he’d been talking to his childhood friend Bob as a friend and not as a religious authority, he’d be free to express who he endorses, but he cannot do so as a priest.

    Also, that’s not what Karen means.

    Nic (896fdf)

  174. nk (1d9030) — 1/24/2021 @ 5:56 pm

    I can understand your reaction. A good friend was completely mystified by what the Priest said. There was a lot of backstory, history, and context that the Priest did not need to provide his Parishoners, or for that matter, anyone who had been paying close attention to the actions of the Bishops over the past three decades. All this is important information for the hearer to bear in mind.

    Without going into everything, too many Bishops have thrown too many Priest under the bus in a vain attempt to look like they are “doing something” to address every crises that the media trumpets. Truly, faithful, priests are ask to do their job with no support from their shepherds, the Bishops.

    Mind you, the Priests that water down the faith into an ambiguous, relativistic, non-offensive to sinners pablum are doing just fine in this toxic environment. There is nothing heroic in going along to get along. The sleeping Catholics that have been lulled into complacency, are happy to be left to any whim and novelty that that may enter their minds and hearts.

    Catholics who love Jesus first, and foremost are starving for the Truth, the Way, and the Life. They turn to faithful Priest to deliver Christ to them.
    That is what this Priest is doing. We understand what he says because bear the same injuries.

    felipe (630e0b)

  175. NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/24/2021 @ 7:47 pm

    Thank you, you blessing means a great deal to me, and it comforts me. The Lord be with you, too.

    felipe (630e0b)

  176. Nic, communion in the hand was not sanctioned in the U.S. until 1977. Other countries adopted earlier after Vatican II in the 1960’s…and the granting of indults.

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  177. @AJ@182 I admit I didn’t look up the exact date on that one. It was before my time and something both of my grandmothers were bothered about having come from Vactican II, so I thought it was earlier. I should’ve searched for the right year. Thanks.

    Nic (896fdf)

  178. @felipe@173 The video was recorded in July 2020. Priests aren’t supposed to be giving the Eucharist on the tongue because of Covid. Pay attention.

    You pay attention! No Priest, Bishop, Cardinal, or any other clergy may deny a communicant their right to receive on the tongue. Period. You are the one not paying attention. Covid? The Church has faced thousands of years of plagues, war, disasters, you name it. Receiving on the hand is a novelty, an option, not the norm. You really don’t understand what a scandal that Priest caused by his actions.

    Also, I see that you did not take our previous discussion to heart on the method by which one is supposed to hold one’s siblings in the Church accountable.

    Good grief! I knew I was wrong to let you slide on that. You are completely wrong about that, too. Admonishing a brother in the way I did was charitable and “aside”. It is you who do not understand that everyone here is not in plain sight. We are here anonymously. You are here anonymously. We are all only virtually here in the complete privacy of our location and hidden identities, internet snooping notwithstanding. Nothing said on this forum is going to lower anybody’s standing in real life. No scandal will be given, for there is no one really present. I shouldn’t have to point this out to you.

    Making a show of being OMG!MoreTrad! (holier) than other people when taking the Eucharist is praying loudly on the street corner.
    Nic (896fdf) — 1/24/2021 @ 7:44 pm

    Congratulations on your hat-trick of error. You must have a spiritual inferiority complex in order to take such umbradge at such common piety. No one was is ever scandalized by kneeling to G*d and receiving on the tongue. It is the Priest who caused scandal! I firmly believe that you don’t have any understanding about this matter. There is no “corner.” They are exactly where they need to be – at the right time, and the right place to receive the Eucharist. You really don’t have any idea how absurd your position is, and I pity you.

    felipe (630e0b)

  179. @felipe@184 And yet there is still no significant theological difference between getting communion on the tongue and getting it in the hand and by insisting on kneeling and getting it on the tongue, the gentleman (if he was Latin-rite) was still insisting on making a dramatic statement about how trad he was, and entirely disregarding the fact that the priest had been instructed to give the Eucharist in the hand.

    Kneeling to take communion on the tongue, when the priest isn’t supposed to give it that way is an attempt to cause scandal and attention seeking behavior. It isn’t holy, it’s show business.

    I quoted the passage on how to talk to an errant brother to you. This forum, BTW, is in public, and thus you are publicly chiding people (in this case, me). Why do you feel the need to publicly show how devote you are all the time? And put other people down as not devout enough? If you were a highschool girl, you’d be the one policing everyone’s outfits. “Really, Cathy? Above the knee? Goodness. Oh, Jenna, I can see your collarbone. Better not let Sister see that. Oh, Amy, two piercings? I’ll pray for you.”

    Nic (896fdf)

  180. @felipe@174 Except he wasn’t completely right.

    Oh, so you admit the Priest was right, but not completely? Not to your satisfaction perhaps?

    It’s against ecclesiastical law for a priest to endorse (or disendorse) a candidate from the pulpit.

    Yeah, that is not what happened. You can say that happened but that doesn’t make it true. Besides, what candidate? Biden is now President. Pay attention.

    He can’t do that in his role as a priest. If he’d been talking to his childhood friend Bob as a friend and not as a religious authority, he’d be free to express who he endorses, but he cannot do so as a priest.

    HAH! A citizen’s rights, even while a Priest, are always active. The right to free speech is not in conflict with the right of thr free practice of religion. If a Priest is embargoed from political speech before an election, what makes you think that embargo should continue to be in effect after the election is over? Finally, that’s still not what happened. You don’t like what he said about Biden? tough, get over it.

    Also, that’s not what Karen means.

    Hah! It is not my fault you don’t follow.

    felipe (630e0b)

  181. @Felipe@186 Having trouble following rhetorical parallelism? It’s a dialogue method in which one person uses the same phraseology another person did as part of the process of contradicting them.

    A citizen’s rights,

    As a citizen, a priest could tell what he heard in the confessional. As a priest, he ethically can’t.

    It is not my fault you don’t follow.

    If you make up definitions of words, instead of using the actual definition, no one can follow.

    Nic (896fdf)

  182. Also, that’s not what Karen means.

    I can see you insist on maintaining your absurd line of reasoning in the hardness of your heart. Why, because you are free to persist in error. You continue to give your opinion as though it were the truth. Correction does no good to a person who will not be corrected.

    I advise everyone who reads nic’s comment to understand that he merely expresses his own ill-informed opinions on matters of faith.

    Carry on, nic. The Lord bless you.

    felipe (630e0b)

  183. @felipe@188 I’ll pray for you.

    Nic (896fdf)

  184. @Felipe@186 Having trouble following rhetorical parallelism? It’s a dialogue method in which one person uses the same phraseology another person did as part of the process of contradicting them.

    Bless you, nic. You really are trying so hard to sound impressive, but it is embarrassing. You are on the verge of granting me a rent-free place in your mind. Have fun winning arguments against yourself.

    felipe (630e0b)

  185. Oh, goodness, I had though our dialogue was complete. No? Well rest assured that my sentiments in 189 remain the same for whatever remaining conversation you feel the need to continue.

    Nic (896fdf)

  186. At this point, insisting on taking it on the tongue is performance Catholicism. And kneeling to take it on the tongue is showboating on top of that.

    It’s awfully presumptuous to make a superficial judgement about the motives behind how someone else chooses to engage in the most sacred part of the Mass. I don’t think you really want to be that guy.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  187. Sometimes doing things a particular way is meaningful. Sometimes it’s easy to discern the fakers playing Christian for selfish reasons, but usually we don’t know.

    The body of Christ “broken for you” is central to the faith. And from the outside, what could be more absurd? If Tom Cruise told us he’s chewing on Xenu from another dimension every time he has cotton candy we would not take that seriously. I believe many folks are just eating a cracker and drinking grape juice, going through the motions, barely contemplating the idea that this is Jesus they are consuming. I believe plenty, maybe most folks in churches give a lot of thought to what they look like to others there, if they seem worthy and good. World gonna worldly. We’re all a little bit of Trump, probably more than a little. That’s why we judge. And why we shouldn’t judge.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  188. @JVW@192 In the middle of an epidemic, with the priest having been instructed to give communion a certain way? Almost no one takes communion like that under regular circumstances, but with the way thing are currently? That was not within the usual norms.

    @Dustin@193 You are a more charitable person than I on this one. I have a very visceral dislike of over-the-top religious performativism and very little tolerance for it. Probably most especially from people in my own religion.

    Nic (896fdf)

  189. Nic, the truth is in my heart I’m not charitable about it. I judge all the time, pretty closely to what you’re saying. I just know, rationally, that I shouldn’t judge. It’s a weird reversal because faith isn’t supposed to be all that rational, but we know we don’t have all the info.

    I’ve had some good and some bad experiences with organized religion, churches, people who are very conspicuous about their faith but frankly quite evil, or people who seem to have bumper sticker levels of faith until you see them show true grace and compassion. you’re not wrong to assume men fail morally. And I know God does not mind if we take care of older people in our community by avoiding anything that spreads this disease, at the cost of some traditions.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  190. @JVW@192 In the middle of an epidemic, with the priest having been instructed to give communion a certain way? Almost no one takes communion like that under regular circumstances, but with the way thing are currently? That was not within the usual norms.

    I can only speak to the policy in my parish, but we have no prohibition on taking communion in the mouth; the priests only ask that those who wish to receive it that way please wait until the very end of communion to approach and receive it in that manner.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  191. Nic, the truth is in my heart I’m not charitable about it. I judge all the time, pretty closely to what you’re saying. I just know, rationally, that I shouldn’t judge.

    This is where I stand too. When I was a kid, there was a woman in my parish who would come forward to receive communion, then at about fifteen feet from the priest she would go down on both knees and proceed forward scooting along and then receive the Eucharist through her mouth. There was also a Native American gentleman who would do this elaborate ceremony of bowing and crossing himself, both before and after receiving the Eucharist. Both of them would hold up the line a little bit as they went through their respective rituals. I used to roll my eyes and sneer that they were wasting everyone’s time, but looking back on it I’m wondering why I begrudged them their 15 or 30 seconds of veneration or assumed that it was performative rather than sincere.

    Now it’s entirely true that if 200 parishioners each decided to do their own ritual in the communion line that the cumulative effect would be astonishingly annoying, but I don’t have it in me any longer to question the sincerity of people who make whatever gesture of adoration or contrition they feel is necessary to salve their souls.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  192. @Dustin I have no better excuse than too many years of Catholic school, including 4 yrs of HS where the best policy for those of us who weren’t ultra-orthodox was head down, eyes on the floor, mouth shut. And a later decision that I wasn’t going to stand for religious bullying any more.

    And I agree that God is unlikely to be judgemental about temporarily setting aside some tradition in order to protect those who travel with us. But then, I am generally disinclined to think that God is excessively judgemental, as long as we are putting in good effort. He knows who we are. My soul laid bare before the Divine, and all that.

    Nic (896fdf)

  193. @JVW@197 IMO, under normal circumstances it isn’t a big deal, but one person’s desire for ritual shouldn’t be placed above the lives of everyone else. We had a young lady join the Christmas service I was attending a few year ago who I think must have been some flavor of Orthodox, or maybe Coptic, or possible someone of a more conservative Eastern Catholic rite who couldn’t find a service in her own rite. She was doing a full abasement at several points during the mass and on her way out the door afterward, she knelt and kissed the priest’s hand. It was a little excessive for the mass, but it was also obviously part of her own denomination’s religious observation. She wasn’t being performative, she was just going through the ritual she was used to. And that was fine, I don’t have issues with that. It’s people who are being deliberately unnecessarily over the top that I find I have little tolerance for.

    Nic (896fdf)

  194. Now it’s entirely true that if 200 parishioners each decided to do their own ritual in the communion line that the cumulative effect would be astonishingly annoying

    Some “charismatic“ evangelicals, like the ones my mother ministered to, do a lot more than that…

    Dave (1bb933)

  195. I judge all the time, pretty closely to what you’re saying. I just know, rationally, that I shouldn’t judge.

    I’m not very religious, but we judge people every day, did the waiter do a good job, do we trust the word of the mechanic, is the guy on TV lying to me. In fact, judging people is one of the most important things we can do, judge the character, judge the veracity, i.e. judgement.

    I could see a bit of a problem judging other people’s Jesus quotient, but I watched the video, there’s definitely a large loaf of the “look at me” going on. Especially when the Diocese specifically spelled out the what and the why 2 weeks before.

    Distribution of Holy Communion will be limited to the following directives from
    Bishop Oscar A. Solis. Keep in mind, safe distribution is challenging to ensure it can
    be done safely while trying to balance reverence towards the Blessed Sacrament with
    social distancing and parishioners’ and ministers’ safety during this unique time of
    pandemic.

    1. Communion is to be distributed only by the priest(s) and vested permanent or
    transitional deacon(s) and specially trained extraordinary ministers approved by
    the pastor/administrator of each parish/mission. If the presider is a priest in a
    higher-risk category (age/preexisting condition), then a designated
    extraordinary minister could be used in his place.

    2. Hand sanitizer is to be used before the distribution of Communion. If
    inadvertent contact is made, the minister is to stop and sanitize his/her hands
    before continuing to distribute Communion. It may be prudent to have a small
    table with the proper items for sanitizing nearby.

    3. For a time, Communion is to be received ONLY on the HAND.

    4. Communion will not be distributed by the Cup.

    5. Social distancing of a minimum of 6 feet between people not living in the same
    household must be followed.

    6. Extra care must be taken not to touch the communicant’s hand.

    7. During the distribution of Communion: if the minister makes contact with the
    hand of the communicant, the minister will be required to sanitize his or her

    Seems pretty straightforward. Also among the requirements, wear a mask while you’re in the church, which they weren’t doing either. Also, one of the articles specifically says that the man was told by the bishop the week before that this was against the rules, but silly man, bent them for the crisis actor. So, I am judging the man for specifically creating a situation to force a political point. I wonder who it was that promoted this…hmm, not really, it was him. His narcissist quotient is high, too bad his daughter had to get dragged into his stunt.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  196. The Mormon sacrament consists of bread and water. (I guess this is because of the prohibition on alcohol.) When my mother told her French friend about this state of affairs, he said, “That’s great. Jesus turned water into wine, and the Mormons turned it back into water.”

    norcal (b4d7b1)

  197. CBS This Mrning selects out of its interview with Dr Deborah Birx that she says that President Trump had a parallel source of information about the coronavirus – he would show charts and graphs that she didn’t make. She doesn’t have any idea where they came from, even if someone inside or outside the White House was supplying them. (we knew that except that there may have been more than one source.)

    She also said she traveled out on the road a lot to speak to Governors and others because she was not censored there – could say what she wanted.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  198. , I am generally disinclined to think that God is excessively judgemental, as long as we are putting in good effort.

    I hope for my own sake.

    I am judging the man for specifically creating a situation to force a political point.

    It’s annoying seeing people drag their kids around to political points, or screw up something that could be a break from politics to inject their extra wisdom. MAGA hats at weddings, mask fights, anti-vax, whatever, we clearly have an empowered class of dumb people who see a lot of things as opportunities to feel smart.

    Why though? Some of these folks are trolls. Some of them are afraid, fed a steady stream of angering information. If you just get a dose or two a day, it seems ridiculous, but if you hear a lot of Rush, read a lot of Gatewaypundit, it’s surprisingly effective at scaring people.

    It’s enough to judge people. I hold out a lot of hope that we’re just going through a growing pain of the information age, where liars have learned some tricks and society hasn’t caught up. Maybe not.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  199. It looks like being the key member of a humiliating failure is bad for your career.

    White House aides and administration officials who once relished their West Wing perches have jetted off on remote getaways — cashing in on a mountain of unused vacation time. Others are frantically asking former colleagues for help finding work as they prioritize their own careers over whatever chapter Trump is planning for himself.

    “There’s a lot of resumé passing and people just wanting to help people land on their feet,” said a former Trump White House official.

    It’s not been easy. Tainted by Trump’s reputation, several Trump aides described an increasingly bleak job market with virtually no chance of landing jobs in corporate America and some even having seen promising leads disappear after the rampage at the U.S. Capitol. A second former White House official said they knew of “people who got jobs rescinded because of Jan. 6.” A Republican strategist was blunter.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  200. The Supreme Court has just remanded cases against President Trump on the Emoluments Clause back to the lower courts, with instructions to dismiss, as the cases are now moot, Mr Trump no longer being in office. Doesn’t seem like much, but it’s ammunition for Republican Senators who want to dismiss the impeachment, or vote against it if it proceeds — which it will — as being moot.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  201. The Commandant of Stalag 13 had it right:

    Seems pretty straightforward. Also among the requirements, wear a mask while you’re in the church, which they weren’t doing either. Also, one of the articles specifically says that the man was told by the bishop the week before that this was against the rules, but silly man, bent them for the crisis actor. So, I am judging the man for specifically creating a situation to force a political point. I wonder who it was that promoted this…hmm, not really, it was him. His narcissist quotient is high, too bad his daughter had to get dragged into his stunt.

    In the Diocese of Lexington, those same rules apply. Our parish priest, who is 87 years old (!) consecrates the Host, and takes the Host himself, but then hands the paten to the sister, who distributes communion. She is very careful not to touch the communicant. More, while it is normal for the priest, sister or eucharistic minister to say, “The Body of Christ,” it is now done silently, I suppose to not project the voice.

    Only the priest takes the chalice.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  202. The Supreme Court has just remanded cases against President Trump on the Emoluments Clause back to the lower courts, with instructions to dismiss, as the cases are now moot, Mr Trump no longer being in office. Doesn’t seem like much, but it’s ammunition for Republican Senators who want to dismiss the impeachment, or vote against it if it proceeds — which it will — as being moot.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c) — 1/25/2021 @ 6:51 am

    It would be nice if Congress passed laws based on the emoluments clause laying out how it would be enforced.
    -Full disclosure of all profits from foreign entities. Disgorgements of such profits to the treasury.
    -Full disclosure of all profits from foreign entities for closely held businesses. Disgorgements of such profits to the treasury.
    -etc.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  203. #206

    An impeachment vote in our situation is purely political. Refusing to vote to remove because the whole thing is moot won’t impress the Trumpers and won’t impress those who oppose Trump. In any event, there is a real thing at stake — the ability to forbid Trump from seeking office again. That isn’t a small thing. In my opinion, it’s a just punishment for refusing to accept election results and lying to the base in the hopes of fomenting a reversal of the results.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  204. JVW wrote:

    Now it’s entirely true that if 200 parishioners each decided to do their own ritual in the communion line that the cumulative effect would be astonishingly annoying, but I don’t have it in me any longer to question the sincerity of people who make whatever gesture of adoration or contrition they feel is necessary to salve their souls.

    Were this a one-time thing, I can see people getting a bit annoyed, but if it is a regular one, than the pastor ought to be prepared for it by having more eucharistic ministers to distribute the Host.

    I only wish that our parish had 200 parishioners!

    My old parish, in Jim Thorpe, was consolidated after I left; St Joseph’s Church, where I attended — it was just a block away from where I lived, so that was great — was consolidated with Immaculate Conception Church in the tourist trap side of town. Where as a separate parish, St Joseph’s had two Masses every Sunday, 8:00 AM and 10:30 AM, there is now just one Mass, at 9:00 AM at St Joseph’s, and the Saturday Vigil Mass at 4:00 PM at Immaculate Conception.

    How many parishioners have been lost that St Joseph’s had to close its school, and now the two parishes have been consolidated, with one Sunday Mass between them, just since we moved away in 2017?

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  205. I think there’s also the precedent of actually convicting a president. It’s clear that articles of impeachment will be filed more often in the future then they were in the past.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  206. Some guy who’s Appalled by the whole thing wrote:

    An impeachment vote in our situation is purely political. Refusing to vote to remove because the whole thing is moot won’t impress the Trumpers and won’t impress those who oppose Trump. In any event, there is a real thing at stake — the ability to forbid Trump from seeking office again. That isn’t a small thing. In my opinion, it’s a just punishment for refusing to accept election results and lying to the base in the hopes of fomenting a reversal of the results.

    Perhaps I was unclear: the Supreme Court’s decision simply gives ammunition to the Republican senators to vote against conviction, because the case is moot.

    The Hill reported that there are probably only five or six Republican senators who will vote for conviction; if that’s correct, acquittal is the result.

    I doubt that the former President will seek office again, but if he does, either he will lose, or, if he wins, that means his victory will have been the judgement of the people. Wouldn’t that be the democratic way?

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  207. Mr 123 wrote:

    I think there’s also the precedent of actually convicting a president. It’s clear that articles of impeachment will be filed more often in the future then they were in the past.

    If there’s another acquittal, which is what I expect, perhaps partisan or frivolous articles of impeachment will not be filed so often.

    The first impeachment was wholly partisan, with not a single Republican voting for it in the House, and only one Republican, on one of two articles, voting for conviction in the Senate. The Clinton impeachment was wholly partisan, and it failed as well.

    And the current impeachment? While I know that this site is heavily filled with people who hate President Trump, it, too, was partisan. After all of the hoopla, only ten Republicans — who have already drawn some primary challengers for an election 1¾ years away — out of 211, just 4.7% of the Republican caucus, voted for this impeachment.

    The Nixon impeachment worked, because it was truly bipartisan. That’s the only way that impeachments will ever really work.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  208. I doubt that the former President will seek office again, but if he does, either he will lose, or, if he wins, that means his victory will have been the judgement of the people. Wouldn’t that be the democratic way?

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c) — 1/25/2021 @ 7:18 am

    I think a president who attempted to retain power by force after losing an election should be bared from holding office again.
    I think that’s a valuable precedent.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  209. Dana in KY, You’re mistaken about the facts of the Nixon impeachment.

    The Judiciary Committee voted on October 30, to begin consideration of possible impeachment of President Nixon by a 21–17 party-line vote, with all the committee’s Democrats voting yes and all Republicans voting no.

    Nixon resigned before the house passed the articles of impeachment.

    It appears that Trump did what he’s been accused of doing. To me that’s more important then how many of the people who believe in Q support the impeachment.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  210. Mr 123 wrote:

    The Judiciary Committee voted on October 30, to begin consideration of possible impeachment of President Nixon by a 21–17 party-line vote, with all the committee’s Democrats voting yes and all Republicans voting no.

    True enough, but it doesn’t go far enough:

    Republican leaders in Congress were also estimating vote counts. During a July 29 meeting between House Minority Leader John Rhodes and Senate Minority Leader Hugh Scott, Rhodes estimated that impeachment in the House would get as many as 300 votes (well more than the 218 needed) and Scott surmised that there were 60 votes for conviction in the Senate (a little short of 67 necessary). Both felt that the situation was deteriorating for the president.

    Then, following the release of the “smoking gun” tape:

    Confronted with the incontrovertible fact that Nixon had played a leading role in the Watergate cover-up from its initial stages, the ranks of Nixon’s defenders in Congress thinned rapidly.[16] Various Senate Republicans expressed their “shock or outrage” and echoed the growing sentiment favoring the president’s resignation.[194] In a pointed statement, Robert P. Griffin, the assistant minority leader, urged the president to resign, saying: “I think we’ve arrived at a point where both the national interest and his own (Nixon’s) interest would best be served by resigning.”[195] Bob Dole speculated that “if the president had 40 votes (for acquittal in a Senate trial) a week ago, he had no more than 20 today.”

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  211. Yes, as more evidence came out Republican’s began to turn on Nixon. Unfortunately it seems that the current GOP leadership won’t.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  212. Surprise! Democrats are now talking about nuking filibusters. McConnell shuts down Senate unless they recant.

    Before the Senate can get down to business under new Democratic management, Senator Mitch McConnell, the Kentucky Republican and new minority leader, has forced a confrontation over the rule — which effectively imposes a 60-vote threshold to take any action — by refusing to cooperate in organizing the Senate unless Democrats promise not to gut it.

    Senator Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York and the new majority leader, has rebuffed the demand, which has infuriated Democrats who regard it as evidence that Mr. McConnell intends to obstruct Mr. Biden’s proposals on pandemic relief, immigration, climate change, health care and more.

    “Mitch McConnell will not dictate to the Senate what we should do and how we should proceed,” Mr. Schumer said Sunday. “McConnell is no longer the majority leader.”

    The stalemate has created a bizarre situation in which most Senate committees are frozen under Republican control and new senators cannot be seated on the panels even though Democrats now command the Senate majority….

    Before the Senate can get down to business under new Democratic management, Senator Mitch McConnell, the Kentucky Republican and new minority leader, has forced a confrontation over the rule — which effectively imposes a 60-vote threshold to take any action — by refusing to cooperate in organizing the Senate unless Democrats promise not to gut it.

    Senator Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York and the new majority leader, has rebuffed the demand, which has infuriated Democrats who regard it as evidence that Mr. McConnell intends to obstruct Mr. Biden’s proposals on pandemic relief, immigration, climate change, health care and more.

    “Mitch McConnell will not dictate to the Senate what we should do and how we should proceed,” Mr. Schumer said Sunday. “McConnell is no longer the majority leader.”

    The stalemate has created a bizarre situation in which most Senate committees are frozen under Republican control and new senators cannot be seated on the panels even though Democrats now command the Senate majority.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/25/us/senate-filibuster.html

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  213. Nothing says comity and compromise like a series of 51-50 votes!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  214. @215 It appears that Trump did what he’s been accused of doing. To me that’s more important then how many of the people who believe in Q support the impeachment.

    Time123 (b0628d) — 1/25/2021 @ 7:35 am
    Causing an insurrection of sedition?

    I don’t think you want to apply the legal principles of insurrections and sedition to this, but on its face, Trump did neither.

    Had the House passed an impeachment for derelection of duties regarding the riot at the Capitol…then, I can see you’d have legs for that impeachment as it’s solely a political question without having ever needing to point out a legal statute that Trump broke.

    whembly (c30c83)

  215. The Nixon impeachment worked, because it was truly bipartisan. That’s the only way that impeachments will ever really work.

    And to be bipartisan, the “crimes” at the center of the charges must be those that transform public opinion. Nixon won 49 states in his 1972 landslide, and left office in 1974 with (iirc) 29% approval. That’s the kind of sea change in approval that is required to put the fire under the ruling party’s feet. Simply showing guilt of a crime that the public does not view as a crime (e.g. “lying about sex”) is not sufficient as the trial is not about innocence or guilt, but about removal or non-removal — a political act.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  216. @218 Good for McConnell.

    Democrats should “take the win” here and agree to never nuking the filibuster.

    Yes, it’ll be harder to pass the more extremes wishlist, but that doesn’t mean they won’t be able to pass other agendas.

    whembly (c30c83)

  217. The question before the Senate is: Are the foremer president’s alleged actions, whatever they were, sufficient to bar him from further office? There is no legal test required. They do not have to show that his actions were criminal incitement, nor that they led to the attack, nor even that he wanted the attack. They have to show that his pattern of activity that culminated in the attack is a political offense sufficient to bar him from further office.

    This means that all of his actions since (and actually before) the election are pertinent: casting doubt on the vote, trying to get the vote changed, trying to subvert the process after all normal paths had closed, and then bringing his mob to the capitol and exhorting them to “show their strength” to the Congress as it considered the electoral vote that “robbed” him of his “landslide.”

    It is this pattern of behavior that led up to the riot and even if you assert that he really wanted them to stop short of entering the building, his entire thrust for 2 months was unacceptable behavior for holding high public office.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  218. 215. Time123 (b0628d) — 1/25/2021 @ 7:35 am

    The Judiciary Committee voted on October 30, to begin consideration of possible impeachment of President Nixon by a 21–17 party-line vote, with all the committee’s Democrats voting yes and all Republicans voting no.

    There was also a vote in July, 1974 to send articles of impeachment out of committee. That had some votes from Republicans.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_process_against_Richard_Nixon

    These articles were reported to the House of Representatives for final action, with 7 of the committee’s 17 Republicans joining all 21 of its Democrats in voting in favor of one or more of the articles. Two other articles were debated in committee but were rejected.

    That’s 83.6%. Five republicans were needed to get over 2/3 of the committee.

    Before he resigned, Nixon was losing more votes.

    Nixon treated it pretty much like a Parliamentary system vote of no confidence.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  219. I think a president who attempted to retain power by force after losing an election should be bared from holding office again.
    I think that’s a valuable precedent.

    The courts should set it, not Congress. Any federal or state felony conviction will disqualify him from running for public office in most states (he can run in Massachusetts, it’s an exception, snicker), and so will conviction for treason, rebellion, and insurrection under federal law.

    nk (1d9030)

  220. @218: I repeated a block unintentionally. It should have started with:

    For months, as Democrats contemplated capturing control of the White House and the Senate and finally being in a position to push through their agenda without Republican interference, centrists like Senator Jon Tester of Montana have warned that they would not join their party in jettisoning the filibuster, the ultimate weapon of mass obstruction, to clear the way.

    But now that President Biden is in office and Democrats have taken hold of the Senate, even Mr. Tester, who sees the filibuster as a crucial mechanism to force the sort of bipartisan compromise that is sorely needed, says his determination to preserve it is not unconditional…..

    then continued:

    Before the Senate can get down to business under new Democratic management, Senator Mitch McConnell, the Kentucky Republican and new minority leader, has forced a confrontation over the rule — which effectively imposes a 60-vote threshold to take any action — by refusing to cooperate in organizing the Senate unless Democrats promise not to gut it.

    Senator Chuck Schumer, Democrat of New York and the new majority leader, has rebuffed the demand, which has infuriated Democrats who regard it as evidence that Mr. McConnell intends to obstruct Mr. Biden’s proposals on pandemic relief, immigration, climate change, health care and more.

    “Mitch McConnell will not dictate to the Senate what we should do and how we should proceed,” Mr. Schumer said Sunday. “McConnell is no longer the majority leader.”

    The stalemate has created a bizarre situation in which most Senate committees are frozen under Republican control and new senators cannot be seated on the panels even though Democrats now command the Senate majority.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  221. The courts should set it, not Congress. Any federal or state felony conviction will disqualify him from running for public office in most states (he can run in Massachusetts, it’s an exception, snicker), and so will conviction for treason, rebellion, and insurrection under federal law.

    It is unclear that this is true. Eugene Debs ran for President while sitting in prison for anti-war agitation. Also, states have tried and failed to set additional rules for holding a seat in Congress. (Powell v. McCormack, U.S. Term Limits, Inc. v. Thornton, Cook v. Gralike). See https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-1/section-2/clause-2/qualifications-of-members-of-congress

    Congress may refuse to seat someone for any reason, of course.

    It is hard to see how any restriction on a Presidential candidate outside of the ones listed in Article II would stand.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  222. treason, rebellion, and insurrection under federal law.

    Yes, Amendment 14, but that’s a high bar.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  223. That’s 83.6%. Five republicans were needed to get over 2/3 of the committee.

    It’s actually 73.6%. I’m going to assume it was a typo, but it alters the strength on your argument.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  224. centrists like Senator Jon Tester of Montana

    If Tester is a centrist, meaning he won’t vote for radical notions, why is he so keen on getting to 51-50 votes?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  225. Congress may refuse to seat someone for any reason, of course.

    And actually, they cannot do this. They are limited to those qualifications listed in Article I and additions like the 14th Amend. (Powell v. McCormick)

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  226. I note that US Term Limits (can a state impose term limits on Congress?) was decided 5-4 (Thomas, Rehnquist, O’Connor, Scalia dissenting). It might have another decision today.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  227. Nothing says comity and compromise like a series of 51-50 votes!

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/25/2021 @ 9:03 am

    I’ll hold my applause until we see what comes out.

    Time123 (b87ded)

  228. 215. Time123 (b0628d) — 1/25/2021 @ 7:35 am

    It appears that Trump did what he’s been accused of doing.

    The problem is that he didn’t.

    He did not incite the crowd, and the crowd was not incited by him – there were people planning this weeks in advance, and they incited, with bullhorns and so on, some of the more ordinary people to go into the Capitol. Approximately 8,000 people were there – approximately 1,000 went into the building. Now some of the people involved in planning the attack were probably also planning that rally on the Ellipse.

    Neither did Donald Trump ask Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to “find” votes him (that is with implied quotation marks.) Trump claimed they really existed.

    Nor did he threaten him with prosecution. There was some idea he had of replacing the Acting Attorney General, but what Trump wanted the new acting attorney general to do was to announce an investigation of vote fraud and send a letter to the state legislature of Georgia saying the election had been tainted by fraud (which was supposed to get them to replace the electors — around New Year’s!)

    Only one Senate confirmed person at the Department of Justice was willing to do this – maybe – and all the rest said they would resign if any such letter went out. Or maybe it was if Jeffrey Rosen was replaced. And Trump decided not to do that.

    It was a Republican member of Congress from Pennsylvania, Scott Perry, who found the person in the Justice Department who was perhaps willing to send the letter.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/23/us/politics/scott-perry-trump-justice-department-election.html

    Jeffrey Clark says that the description of the conversations he had is not entirely accurate, but because of lawyer client confidentiality (he didn’t cite executive privilege? I guess Trump would have to invole that) he doesn’t want to describe exactly he and Trump discussed.

    Now the problem here is this is somewhat different than what is said in the article of impeachment about Georgia.

    The article of impeachment does say that, before January 6, 2021, Trump had made efforts “subvert and obstruct the certification of the results of the 2020 presidential election” but it mentions that only in passing, as background; misdescribes the one example of that that it does cite; and doesn’t seem to name it outright as a grounds for impeachment.

    Now I agree with Appalled that “refusing to accept election results and lying to the base in the hopes of fomenting a reversal of the results” is grounds for impeachment and conviction. I also think the only hope of conviction is for the articles to set out a true outline of the facts. They really have to re-do it.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  229. 229. Yes it was a typo, of which I make plenty. Fortunately an obvious typo, with what was supposed to be typed also obvious.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  230. Is there an iota of that theological difference between a priest placing the Eucharist in one’s hand and a priest placing the Eucharist in one’s mouth?

    Leviticus (617dc1) — 1/24/2021 @ 5:36 pm

    Leviticus, I owe you a better response to your question than the one I gave you last night. I erred in being rhetorical instead of direct.

    Your question is a just one, and has already been answered by the Church, but it is the wrong question because it does not go to the heart of the matter. Theologically, if each communicant is in the proper state of approaching the Lord with a humble and contrite heart, and does so with out any canonical impediments, then both ways are fine. But the theological question ignores, entirely the matter at hand. The real right question: Is it just to force a communicant to receive in a certain way and failing to satisfy this condition, deny them the Eucharist? The quick answer is NO. That is why there are more than one option in receiving the Eucharist, with one way (on the tongue) being written into law as a universal right, and as the norm. Any direction to the contrary is an abuse of the norm and in violation of Canon law.

    Let me draw you an analogy:

    A group of people are accustomed to eating at a diner. A different group are not accorded the same right, being asked to take their food “to go” after ordering by a different entrance in some location. This second group protests loudly. The matter must be decided. Some ask “is there a law against this treatment? Is there really any difference in eating in the diner as long as they get the same food, separately and “equally?” Astonishingly, some actually ask “who do these people think they are?” Others bring in questions about health and safety. All the wrong questions.
    The right question being “is this a just way to treat different groups?” The answer was resolved as being “No.” And laws were passed.

    The Church’s central Mission is about the Salvation of souls, not the compliance monitor of secular interests. It is not wrong to have concern for the health and welfare of the faithful, but this is not the central Mission of the Church.

    Jesus will judge, with perfect justice, those who have been granted the responsibility of the care of souls.

    felipe at a different terminal (084d77)

  231. He did not incite the crowd…

    Yeah, he did, by lying for two months straight, by inviting them there on that day at that time, by the co-speakers he invited, by the words he said, and by attackers’ own words when they said Trump wanted them to storm the Capitol.
    Trump asked Raffensperger to find the votes and recalculate, which is suborning electoral fraud. His conspiring with Mr. Clark is all of a piece, trying to steal an election while lying that it was stolen from him.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  232. The stalemate has created a bizarre situation in which most Senate committees are frozen under Republican control and new senators cannot be seated on the panels even though Democrats now command the Senate majority.

    And some committees can’t even meet because the Chairman is no longer in the Senate. (The Senate is considered a continuing body in some respects)

    I think they passed a bill without going through a committee – the one permitting General Lloyd Austin to be eligible to become Secretary of Defense (last Thursday) But the news reports were too sketchy for me to determine how they did that procedurally.

    Schumer proposed that they pass exactly the same resolution they did in 2001 word for word (evenly split committees, with the Chairman to be the same party as the vice president, and either leader being able to call up for a floor vote anything on which a committee was deadlocked) but McConnell wants insurance against filibuster abolition.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  233. He did not incite the crowd…

    Yeah, he did, by lying for two months straight, by inviting them there on that day at that time, by the co-speakers he invited, by the words he said, and by attackers’ own words when they said Trump wanted them to storm the Capitol.
    Trump asked Raffensperger to find the votes and recalculate, which is suborning electoral fraud. His conspiring with Mr. Clark is all of a piece, trying to steal an election while lying that it was stolen from him.

    Paul Montagu (77c694) — 1/25/2021 @ 10:02 am

    Exactly.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  234. The Justice Dept.’s inspector general opens an investigation into any efforts to overturn the election.
    …….
    “The inspector general is initiating an investigation into whether any former or current D.O.J. official engaged in an improper attempt to have D.O.J. seek to alter the outcome of the 2020 presidential election,” Mr. Horowitz said in a statement.

    The investigation will encompass all allegations concerning the conduct of former and current department employees, though it would be limited to the Justice Department because other agencies do not fall within Mr. Horowitz’s purview. He said he was announcing the inquiry to reassure the public that the matter is being scrutinized.
    ……
    This is the second known investigation into the actions of top Justice Department officials during the final weeks of the Trump administration. Earlier this month, Mr. Horowitz opened an investigation into whether Trump administration officials improperly pressured Byung J. Pak, the U.S. attorney in Atlanta, who abruptly resigned after it became clear to Mr. Trump that he would not take actions to cast doubt on or undo the results of the election, according to a person briefed on the inquiry.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  235. He did not incite the crowd…

    Paul Montagu (77c694) — 1/25/2021 @ 10:02 am

    Yeah, he did, by lying for two months straight,

    That went into it, especially the lies, which were reinforced by detailed accusations, reeated on radio and other places, that went over the heads of most of them.

    by inviting them there on that day at that time

    That was maybe something of a cover. Mao Tse-Tung (after his death Mao Zedong) said the guerrilla must move amongst the people as a fish swims in the sea and the attackers needed some fish (or a sea) to hide amongst.

    by the co-speakers he invited,

    None of them said anything to incite an attack, Giuliani’s words “trial by combat” have really been ripped out of context. He was saying let them examine some machines and let that decide everything. If there was some incitement there to be found it surely would have quoted.

    by the words he said,

    The words don;t mean what it is claimed they do. And if they did, how come nobody anticipated the attacks?? The speech was public. Did anybody contact anybody at the Capitol to say: “Trump just incited the crowd to go into the Capitol and they’re coming!

    and by attackers’ own words when they said Trump wanted them to storm the Capitol.

    That was not Trump. That was his interpreters.

    Like the constitution in the hands of the Supreme Court, so was anything Trump said to the organizers of the storming of the Capitol. Or like Mohammed in the hands of Osama bin Laden or Anwar al-Awlaki. Twitter even closed Trump’s account because there was no way of stopping Trump’s words from being misused. If he said he would not attend the inauguration, exegesis was applied to it, and it was made into a call to attack the inauguration. . This was happening both on and off Twitter.

    Trump asked Raffensperger to find the votes and recalculate, which is suborning electoral fraud.

    That would have been the only way to do that, in the real world. But Trump claimed that the real world was different than what it was. By the way, the word “recalculate”
    which Trump said Raffensperger could say he had done doesn’t even make sense here. I mean Trump was roposomg affensperger claim he made a mistake in arithmetic??

    His conspiring with Mr. Clark is all of a piece, trying to steal an election while lying that it was stolen from him.

    It maybe didn’t reach the point that Jeffrey Clark ever actually agreed to do anything. (and if he had done it, it would have accomplished nothing, by the way. Trump never had any good plans to steal the election. But Trump’s intent was clear.)

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  236. The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c) — 1/24/2021 @ 4:40 pm

    but what happens this summer, when a white police officer (justifiably) kills a black criminal? You know it’ll happen!

    Not one elected official has promised that it will never happen again. Most of the cases do not involve serious crime, and sometimes no crime at all. But nobody dares to promise not one more unjustified killing of an African American by police.

    There were several days of Mostly Peaceful Protests™ in Philly when the police killed Walter Wallace, an insane a mentally disturbed black man who was advancing on the police with a knife. A knife-wielding white perpetrator was shot dead by two Grayson County sheriff’s deputies on the 23rd, and there were no protests at all.

    It didn’t qualify.

    BLM is not a social justice movement; it’s a movement based on lies.

    Several important lies.

    1) That the main danger to blacks is from the police.

    2) That only black lives are in danger from the police.

    3) That a black person is more likely to be shot by the police than a non-black person in the same situation. If it was more before 2015, it is not so now.

    4) That the number of police shootings of individuals not carrying a firearm has not been going down the last five years.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  237. Nic (896fdf) — 1/24/2021 @ 10:46 pm

    And a later decision that I wasn’t going to stand for religious bullying any more.

    And yet here you are telling someone else how they can take communion.

    How does someone else’s desire about the form of communion affect you? No one is telling you how to take communion or that you have to take it at all. At this point, you are starting to sound more like the Pharisee than the tax collector. There’s no postscript to that parable where the tax collector accused the other of false piety.

    frosty (f27e97)

  238. This is good, although the scope is limited to former and current DOJ officials, not anyone in the White House.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  239. He did not incite the crowd, and the crowd was not incited by him – there were people planning this weeks in advance, and they incited, and one of them was Trump and a lot of them worked for Trump and they were all doing this out in the open specifically for Trump and he wanted them to.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  240. He did not incite the crowd, and the crowd was not incited by him – there were people planning this weeks in advance, and they incited, with bullhorns and so on, some of the more ordinary people to go into the Capitol.

    You have to ask yourself: where and with whom did it all begin? Who had the loudest voice on the largest, most far-reaching platform, and spoke from the ultimate position of power? Who brought up the issue in the first place, and used a solid two months to whine, complain, throw fit after fit, threaten, cajole and encourage supporters to fight back??

    To claim that Trump did not incite the crowd and that the crowd was not incited by him is to willfully ignore al that Trump has said and done since Nov. 4, and to willfully ignore the willingness of MAGA to follow their anointed leader. It’s disingenuous at the least, and a lie at best.

    Dana (fd537d)

  241. To claim that Trump did not incite the crowd and that the crowd was not incited by him is to willfully ignore al that Trump has said and done since Nov. 4, and to willfully ignore the willingness of MAGA to follow their anointed leader. It’s disingenuous at the least, and a lie at its most.

    And how many drank bleach?

    Clorox ain’t Kool-Aid.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  242. He did not incite the crowd, and the crowd was not incited by him – there were people planning this weeks in advance, and they incited, with bullhorns and so on, some of the more ordinary people to go into the Capitol.

    You have to ask yourself: where and with whom did it all begin? Who had the loudest voice on the largest, most far-reaching platform, and spoke from the ultimate position of power? Who brought up the issue in the first place, and used a solid two months to whine, complain, throw fit after fit, threaten, cajole and encourage supporters to fight back??

    To claim that Trump did not incite the crowd and that the crowd was not incited by him is to willfully ignore al that Trump has said and done since Nov. 4, and to willfully ignore the willingness of MAGA to follow their anointed leader. It’s disingenuous at the least, and a lie at its most.

    Dana (fd537d) — 1/25/2021 @ 11:59 am

    Yes, the issue is that some people are using any ambiguity as a complete refutation.

    Time123 (b0628d)

  243. The Nixon impeachment worked, because it was truly bipartisan. That’s the only way that impeachments will ever really work.

    =sigh= The Big Dick was not impeached.

    But he would have been had he not resigned.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  244. Sammy, you’re still bending over backward, with your narrow interpretation of events, to give Trump every benefit of the doubt. You’re telling us that we can’t connect Dots A-B-C-D, as if each event was its own island, that we can’t draw a line between the points.
    If he hadn’t called out to his MAGA supporters to show up on that day at that time, with the tease that it would be “wild”, then no insurrection. If he hadn’t lied for two months straight, then there was no need to invite his fanatics. If he had stuck to “march peacefully” instead of using additional incendiary words by him and his co-speakers, then events would’ve turned out differently. We know for a fact that his devoted adherents took his lying words at face value.

    Paul Montagu (e08479)

  245. @Frosty@244 The video was taken July 2020, after the priest had been instructed to give communion only in the hand. The dude in the video was trying to bully the priest in order to make a political point. However, that’s not really the point I was trying to make when answering Leviticus’ question at the beginning of that portion of the discussion.

    How it got to be an argument, well, feel free to read Felipe’s comments at 173 and 174. You might see why I was not feel particularly charitable toward him when I had not only not been insulting toward him (unless he was the guy in the video) I had not even been talking to him when he decided he needed to say that I was behaving shamefully, and was unpious, disrespectful, and a Karen. All of which is technically against the rules of this website, though I don’t report people for that kind of thing, so whatever.

    Nic (896fdf)

  246. I am sick and tired of desperate and disingenuous efforts to relieve Trump of his responsibility. If it had been Obama (or any Democratic president) behaving the way Trump behaved for four years, but specifically the two months after the election, and working non-stop to attempt to overturn election results by baseless claims of fraud and criminal activity, as well as fostering and fomenting outrage by having been betrayed by the Swamp, then Republicans would be screaming bloody murder at such despicable behavior. They would not let up, and they would be determined to see said Democratic president impeached. Why, there isn’t really any doubt that far, far more than enough votes to convict would be a given. The stupendous dishonesty of Republicans at this point in time convinces me, as one who left the Party, that it deserves to be burnt to the ground. Only then is there any possibility that a re-born group, purged of all that is MAGA, might rise from the ashes.

    Dana (fd537d)

  247. Hank Aaron

    I was at the game in Cincinnati when he tied the record.

    My dad got us tickets. Brought my mitt just in case.

    When that ball went sailing over the left field wall I will never forget it. The whole place just erupted in celebration.

    Echo (35dc65)

  248. That’s so cool, Echo. What a great memory.

    Dana (fd537d)

  249. Echo

    I was at that game too. My pop’s wasn’t really a baseball fan, but he bought season tickets in 74 just to get opening day with Aaron tickets. I was only 6 at the time, so I don’t remember much, but I do remember the crowd, first time I was ever in a stadium IIRC.

    Oddly enough, that was one of the few years in the 70’s that the Big Red Machine didn’t win the division, they only had the second best record in baseball to the Dodgers, but back then only the division winners kept playing, wild cards weren’t a thing.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  250. Dana (fd537d) — 1/25/2021 @ 11:59 am

    To claim that Trump did not incite the crowd and that the crowd was not incited by him is to willfully ignore al that Trump has said and done since Nov. 4, and to willfully ignore the willingness of MAGA to follow their anointed leader. It’s disingenuous at the least, and a lie at its most.

    He did not incite the crowd to storm the Capitol

    He “incited” them to attend a second rally at the Capitol. That is all. There was such a rally scheduled that had a permit.

    Operation Occupy the Capitol was something else.

    Now a question could be: what did Trump know, and when did he know it. It still wouldn’t be an “incitement” of the crowd in front of him because that’s not how it happened.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/16/us/capitol-riot-funding.html

    Keith Lee, an Air Force veteran and former police detective, spent the morning of Jan. 6 casing the entrances to the Capitol.

    In online videos, the 41-year-old Texan pointed out the flimsiness of the fencing. He cheered the arrival, long before President Trump’s rally at the other end of the mall, of far-right militiamen encircling the building. Then, armed with a bullhorn, Mr. Lee called out for the mob to rush in, until his voice echoed from the dome of the Rotunda…

    …By noon, he was reporting that “backup” was already arriving, bypassing the Trump speech and rally. The Proud Boys and Oath Keepers were among the groups that went directly to the Capitol.

    They went directly to the Capitol

    This is a timeline

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/12/us/capitol-mob-timeline.html

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  251. Sammy,

    You are completely ignoring two months of tweets, comments, rally speeches and the actual words coming straight from Trump.

    Dana (fd537d)

  252. Dana (fd537d) — 1/25/2021 @ 2:19 pm

    You are completely ignoring two months of tweets, comments, rally speeches and the actual words coming straight from Trump.

    Many people on Capitol Hill were fully aware of that – and nobody thought an assault on the Capitol was coming.

    That’t not what they thought would be Trump’s next move.

    Only a few people who were paying attention – to different people than Donald Trump – thought something could happen. Ad they didn’t know what it meant.

    https://www.adl.org/blog/extremists-and-mainstream-trump-supporters-plan-to-protest-congressional-certification-of

    Various organizers have filed for at least four permits related to the January 6 rallies. These include a Capitol lawn “Stop the Steal/Wild Protest” organized by right-wing provocateur Ali Alexander, a “Trump March” at Freedom Plaza organized by Women for America First, a march led by James Epley of South Carolina from the Mall to the Capitol lawn and a “MAGA Wild” rally organized by the Eighty Percent Coalition, a reference to a November Gallup poll that found that more than 80% of Republicans do not trust the election results. A fifth event, “Operation Occupy the Capitol” is being promoted on social media, but it is not clear who is promoting the event.

    The Washington Post did not know of that last event, and they knew of all the tweets, comments, rally speeches and words coming straight from Trump.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trump-january6-dc-protest/2020/12/30/1773b19c-4acc-11eb-839a-cf4ba7b7c48c_story.html

    Yuu need some evidence Trump’z words were a dog whistle. Otherwise it is logical to assume other unknnown words were involved.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  253. Nobody saw it coming. And, therefore, nothing that Trump did in public caused it.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  254. Sammy,

    I believe Trump was in tune with his followers so much that he knew exactly what to say to them to get them to act, and he knew just how to state things in order to claim that he wasn’t responsible.

    Trump is a cancer on the body politic, and a conviction in the Senate will keep him in permanent remission.

    norcal (b4d7b1)

  255. If Trump somehow knew what to do to get people to act, why did most people do nothing and why are there videos of antifa leftists like Sullivan goading people to act?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  256. https://chicago.suntimes.com/2021/1/25/22249118/2-brothers-alleged-sex-abuse-rev-michael-pfleger-supporters-rally-outside-st-sabina-church

    Obama’s favorite Catholic social justice warrior from Chicago is back in the news again.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  257. If Trump somehow knew what to do to get people to act, why did most people do nothing and why are there videos of antifa leftists like Sullivan goading people to act?

    You don’t go to war against America with the schnitzel-slurpers you want, you go to war against America with the schnitzel-slurpers you have. — Donald Rumfeldwurstchen

    nk (1d9030)

  258. If Trump somehow knew what to do to get people to act, why did most people do nothing and why are there videos of antifa leftists like Sullivan goading people to act?

    Out of the 800± MAGA attackers who broke into the Capitol Building, why do Trump cultists focus all their attention on the one socialist grifter?

    Paul Montagu (0186ae)

  259. People go back and forth between sides in cosplay rebellions.

    Also consult Die Hards 2 (combatants who are actually on the same side) and 3 (dyed in the wool Nazis revealing themselves).

    urbanleftbehind (f27173)

  260. The Godfather‘s Paulie and Carlo might be the better movie reference, urbanleftbehind. Or maybe the different strains of E. coli, which vary from commensal to deadly.

    nk (1d9030)

  261. norcal (b4d7b1) — 1/25/2021 @ 9:16 pm

    I believe Trump was in tune with his followers so much that he knew exactly what to say to them to get them to act,

    That qould amount to a dog whistle. Dog whistles are rarely real, and when they are, a lot of people know it.

    I don;t believe that. I don’t believe that most of the people who went into the Capitol evven heard him speak

    I don;t believe that even if his directing the crowd to go to the Capitol was part of a conspiracy to assault the Capitol, his exact words still didn’t matter. I think most people who think that don’t realize there was a scheduled demonstration at the Capitol and they think a riled up crowd just wen to the Capitol and they don’t even try to explain where the bullhorns and the pepper spray and everything else that was there came from.

    and he knew just how to state things in order to claim that he wasn’t responsible.

    Like Donald Trump is that smart.

    Perhaps there were some things that were double entendres. If so, I will say they were supplied to him, and he used half. But I think his words had nothing to do with what happened. And it is stupid to think so. Searching for inciting words in the speeches delivered there is grasping at straws.

    Trump is a cancer on the body politic, and a conviction in the Senate will keep him in permanent remission.

    That’s right. And it cannot possibly happen if the factual basis upon which the Senate is asked to convict isn’t accurate.

    I’m not sure the Democrats are patriotic enough to really attempt to get something done that will help their opposition (that is, convicting Trump in the Senate)
    +

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  262. * I don’t believe that the exact words Trump said mattered, even if his directing the crowd to go to the Capitol was part of a conspiracy to assault the Capitol.

    The storming of the Capitol was about as spontaneous as the assault on the U.S. mission on Benghazi on Tuesday, September 11. 2012.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  263. 265, Paul Montagu (0186ae) — 1/26/2021 @ 5:39 am

    Out of the 800± MAGA attackers who broke into the Capitol Building, why do Trump cultists focus all their attention on the one socialist grifter?

    Because they are cultists.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  264. https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-to-suspendnew-federal-oil-and-gas-leasing-11611672331?mod=djemalertNEWS

    $5 gas here we come. Can we say $10 gas, maybe.

    You get what you voted for.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  265. Who are the cultists Paul? Are you calling people out by name since you linked my post?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  266. https://legalinsurrection.com/2021/01/chicago-teachers-union-vote-not-to-return-to-schools-as-parents-beg-teachers-to-reconsider/

    The biggest lie is that teachers in the union care about the education of their students.

    This is your city nk.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  267. The theory that Trump incited the riot with his speech is based on looking only at the surface and on incomplete early information. (and on fear of free speech)

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  268. My daughter’s university is also 100% online, and it’s all because of the professors there too. On the other hand, Trump’s friends and family got a month’s time to ease out of the stock market without losing money, about a year ago, when he told them that a pandemic was coming, but told the rest of us that it was a Democrat hoax. You just have to take the good with the bad, I guess.

    nk (1d9030)

  269. 271. NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/26/2021 @ 8:43 am

    . $5 gas here we come. Can we say $10 gas, maybe.

    No that won’t happen. Joe Biden is not that stupid.

    If it even approaches $5 a gallon we get electric cars. Electric cars may even now be a better buy over the life of the car because of lower running costs and maintenance (and insurance?)

    Maybe it might make sense to lease one.

    Jay Leno says the break even point s about $30,000 per car. (of course, Jay Leno has been fascinated with electric cars for years)

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/jay-leno-on-how-driving-changed-in-2020and-how-it-will-change-even-more-11607788800

    Think about the costs and the hassle of a new gas-powered car: After the first 600 miles, first you have to change the oil and service it, and eventually you have to replace the brake pads. Electric cars have brake pads too, but they also have regenerative braking, so they slow you down and you don’t use the brakes nearly as much. My Tesla brake pads still look brand new because I just let my foot off the pedal and the car slows down. I only use the brake pedal to come to a full, complete stop.

    Then there’s the gas. I used to have a big Jaguar four-door sedan that cost me $80 to $100 a week in gas. I got the Tesla, and it’s maybe $6 a week of electricity to charge the battery.

    The cutoff point in America is $30,000. I think once they figure out how to build electric cars for less than $30,000, you’ll see more and more people going electric. If it hits people in the pocketbook, that’s the game-changer. If you can make a car cheaper, more efficient, faster—game over.

    It’s probably most useful for business where the car will not travel out of range and they figure out the cost based n the lifetime of the car. The cost and the strength and the speed of charging of the battery is the main problem.

    It creates less local pollution, not that there’s too much of it now anyway. The carbon dioxide issue is really just irrelevant, but if the environmentalists love electric cars, well then maybe they’ll get electric cars.

    Electric cars could lead to more injury of pedestrians because they don’t make noise, and make it harder to measure traffic jams because carbon monoxide levels won’t go up. At least when and if they become nearly universal. There’s the idea of artificially making them a little noisy.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  270. Sammy,

    where does the energy to charge an electric car come from?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  271. Sammy,

    that’s exactly what they want to happen. Don’t you remember Obama complaining about the necessity of increasing the price of gas and the range he was speaking of is that $5-$10 range. They want to control behavior. Half the price of gas is the taxes. You think they won’t increase taxes on electric car charging which will go up on its own due to limited energy resources? They keep trying to find more ways to tax mileage. You think that’ll stop?

    You seem to be under the assumption that Biden wouldn’t do it because it’s bad policy and would hurt their electoral chances, but they don’t care. Once the policy is in place, good luck removing it. Just look at Obamacare.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  272. 273. NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/26/2021 @ 9:11 am

    The biggest lie is that teachers in the union care about the education of their students.

    I don’t think even Joe Biden pretends to believe that.

    He pretends to believe their worried about their own health but tells them their concerns can be taken care of. (when what they are looking for is non-accountability)

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2021/01/25/biden-wants-schools-open-but-teachers-unions-have-other-ideas/4165684001/#

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  273. Who are the cultists Paul? Are you calling people out by name since you linked my post?

    If the shoe fits, Rob.

    Paul Montagu (105c10)

  274. 273. NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/26/2021 @ 9:11 am

    The biggest lie is that teachers in the union care about the education of their students.

    I don’t think even Joe Biden pretends to believe that.

    He pretends to believe their worried about their own health but tells them their concerns can be taken care of. (when what they are looking for is non-accountability)

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/education/2021/01/25/biden-wants-schools-open-but-teachers-unions-have-other-ideas/4165684001/#

    Yet many parents are realizing their children may never see their teachers in person this year. A growing number blame their local teachers union, even as President Joe Biden and his administration make in-person instruction a priority.

    https://chicago.suntimes.com/education/2021/1/25/22249359/joe-biden-chicago-teachers-union-covid-cps-public-schools-reopening

    “The teachers, I know they want to work,” Biden said when asked about the CTU by a reporter at a news conference after an event on American manufacturing. “They just want to work in a safe environment, and as safe as we can rationally make it, and we can do that.”

    To the question, should “teachers return to school,” Biden said, “we should make school classrooms safe and secure for the students, for the teachers and for the help that is in those schools maintaining those facilities.”

    …People have to be convinced and comfortable that a “school is safe and secure for everyone,” Biden said. Among the keys to reopening schools are the presence of widespread testing and functioning ventilation systems, he said — two points of contention between Chicago Public Schools officials and the CTU in recent months.

    The president added, “we should be able to open up every, every school, kindergarten through eighth grade, if in fact we administer these tests, and we’ll have the added advantage I might add, a putting millions of people back to work.”

    …“People know that in-person learning is really important, but they want to be safe,” she said. As for whether Biden was taking sides, Weingarten said the president “is siding with the science and trying to get this pandemic under control and trying to open schools safely. I think that is what he is siding with.”

    With Biden as president, teachers unions have a seat at the table in the White House with two allies — Biden and first lady Jill Biden, a union member who teaches English at Northern Virginia Community College.

    After Biden spoke, both Chicago officials and CTU leaders found points of agreement in his comments.

    The school district shared video of the president’s response on its social media accounts, commenting, “We couldn’t agree more. The district has invested >$100M to ensure the health and safety of our community.”

    Union members, meanwhile, said they were encouraged to hear Biden weigh in on the situation. CTU Vice President Stacy Davis Gates said Biden “is not taking sides” but is “prioritizing the safety of every stakeholder in every city in every state in this country.”

    ….The union is pushing for members who have medically vulnerable relatives at home to receive accommodations for remote work, and for teachers to only be required to return to classrooms after they receive a vaccination. The CTU is also asking for increased testing of staff and students and a public health metric that would determine when schools should reopen or close.

    Biden has made addressing the pandemic — and the related reopening of schools and reviving the economy — a key part of his first 100-day, 100 million vaccinations agenda.

    On Thursday, his first full day in office, Biden signed an executive order on school reopenings, stating his policy is “to provide support to help create the conditions for safe, in-person learning as quickly as possible; ensure high-quality instruction and the delivery of essential services often received by students and young children at school, institutions of higher education, child care providers, and Head Start programs; mitigate learning loss caused by the pandemic; and address educational disparities and inequities that the pandemic has created and exacerbated.”

    The Democratic-allied powerful national teachers unions are a crucial part of Biden’s base. Last Thursday, the day after the inauguration, Jill Biden held a virtual event with 11,000 teachers: Weingarten and National Education Association President Becky Pringle were with the first lady in the White House.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  275. I have several friends who are teachers. There are 2 common themes from them.

    1. They don’t want to get sick and they’re very skeptical about students adhering to prevention rules.
    2. They hate distance learning. It’s harder, they’re accomplishing less, they can tell students are falling behind. They liked working with kids, especially the younger kids, and this has removed a large part of what they liked about their jobs.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  276. NJRob (eb56c3) — 1/26/2021 @ 9:43 am

    where does the energy to charge an electric car come from?

    Oh, that can be solar or wind. Or hydropower, but that kills fish, or nuclear, but that scares people. Or natural gas, which produces less CO2 and more H2O than gasoline, which they will consider a good thing until they wake up one day and discover that H2O s an even more potent greenhouse gas than CO2.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  277. Time123 (d1bf33) — 1/26/2021 @ 10:00 am

    1. They don’t want to get sick and they’re very skeptical about students adhering to prevention rules.

    They don;t have to. Young children dont get sick, and if they do, they don’t transmit serious cases.(teachers with mild infections, though, could give a serious case to people they breathe near – or the people they infect could in turn give a more serious case to the next generation – because with each iteration, even if the virus does not mutate, the cases can get more serious because the initial exposure is greater because the disease progresses further before the immune system gets it under control. That’d why Covid can circulate undetected fr a while)

    2. They hate distance learning. It’s harder, they’re accomplishing less, they can tell students are falling behind. They liked working with kids, especially the younger kids, and this has removed a large part of what they liked about their jobs.

    Maybe they hate it, but their union loves it because there are no grievances to deal with.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  278. Time123 (d1bf33) — 1/26/2021 @ 10:00 am
    1. They don’t want to get sick and they’re very skeptical about students adhering to prevention rules.
    They don;t have to. Young children dont get sick, and if they do, they don’t transmit serious cases.(teachers with mild infections, though, could give a serious case to people they breathe near – or the people they infect could in turn give a more serious case to the next generation – because with each iteration, even if the virus does not mutate, the cases can get more serious because the initial exposure is greater because the disease progresses further before the immune system gets it under control. That’d why Covid can circulate undetected fr a while)
    2. They hate distance learning. It’s harder, they’re accomplishing less, they can tell students are falling behind. They liked working with kids, especially the younger kids, and this has removed a large part of what they liked about their jobs.
    Maybe they hate it, but their union loves it because there are no grievances to deal with.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca) — 1/26/2021 @ 10:12 am

    I live in the burbs with very good schools. I give them a lot of credit for what they’re trying to do. But I do know that a lot of the older teachers have been very concerned. I don’t have data, but apparently there have been a lot of retirements as the older teachers wanted to avoid these problems.

    If a 60 year old with a history of raspatory issues tells me that they’re concerned about being in a small room with 125 different teens every day (5 classes with 25 students each) I’m sympathetic. I’m also thrilled my 7 year old is back in his seat.

    Time123 (ae9d89)

  279. Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca) — 1/26/2021 @ 10:02 am

    I take Rob’s point, Sammy, that an electric car that gets its electricity from a coal-powered plant is not a clean energy alternative.

    Paul Montagu (105c10)

  280. Great article by Will Wilkerson on Cancel Culture.

    In my experience, tendentious question-begging is the point. Slogans like “cancel culture” and “political correctness” are used again and again to short-circuit debate, avoid the underlying substantive controversy, and shift the entire burden of justification onto advocates of the rival position. The person who believes that the transgression is serious enough to merit severe consequences isn’t given a fair chance to make her case for this position. Instead, she’s forced to earn the right to make the case by acquitting herself of the implicit charge that she is a petty tyrant policing mind-crimes in the name of stultifying ideological conformity. Good-faith discussion of the gravity of racist jokes never gets off the ground.

    That’s why “cancel culture” tends to strike me as more of an evasive maneuver than a coherent idea with determinate content.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  281. Not impressed in the slightest by Wilkerson’s tedious article trying to dismiss the accurately phrased term “cancel culture” and his slight of hand attempt to say that these acts of cancellation are just justified responses to illicit actions or thoughts.

    His attempt at policing thought will be accepted because he comes from a leftist, progressive mindset and knows he will be accepted with open arms again. Not so for those who refuse to bend the knee.

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  282. https://www.newsweek.com/agent-fired-literary-agency-using-parler-gab-1564687

    And before you ask, here you go. Cancel culture is alive and dangerous. When you take away the ability of someone to earn a living, where do you leave them?

    NJRob (eb56c3)


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