Patterico's Pontifications

1/19/2021

Mitch McConnell: The Mob Was Fed Lies. They Were Provoked By The President…

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:23 am



[guest post by Dana]

Mitch McConnell says it out loud:

Axios also reports that they have been told that

There’s a better than 50-50 chance that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell would vote to convict President Trump in an impeachment trial…

So, basically, we have no clue how he will vote.

In the meantime, seventeen Republican would need to join Democrats to vote for a conviction. Off the top of my head, I can only think of about six or seven that I think would actually follow through with a vote to convict. However, if McConnell votes to convict, would that motivate any Republicans still on the fence to follow his lead?

It should be noted that the Wall Street Journal reports that:

Many Republicans are gravitating toward a technical argument: The Senate lacks jurisdiction to try him after he leaves office, they maintain, because he will be a private citizen. That could allow the Republicans to thread a political needle, voting against Mr. Trump’s conviction without having to defend his conduct, people familiar with the discussion say.

Now that sounds just like today’s Republican Party.

–Dana

94 Responses to “Mitch McConnell: The Mob Was Fed Lies. They Were Provoked By The President…”

  1. Hello.

    Dana (cc9481)

  2. Romney, Murkowski, Sasse, Toomey, Collins for sure.

    Dana (cc9481)

  3. If you are looking for cowardly ways out, suppose 15 GOP Senators have other plans that day. The rule is “two thirds of members present.” That would allow 56 Senators to convict.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  4. Impeachment is so divisive. Who among us hasn’t incited an insurrectionist mob to storm the Capital? You have my word (and Susan Collins’), Trump has learned his lesson. A stern finger wagging was all he ever needed.

    lurker (59504c)

  5. The best argument I’ve seen in favor of the constitutionality of the impeachment is that to the extent that permanent disqualification is seen as a significant and important sanction, which I think it should be considered, historically and realistically, it would be absurd to think it could be avoided by the impeached person suddenly resigning.

    It’s one of those issues of constitutional interpretation where I think it makes most sense back to step back from a moment from attempts at literal reading of a particular word to try to consider what actually is a reasonable reading. It was Justice Jackson who noted that the Constitution is not a suicide pact.zed liberal

    Victor (4959fb)

  6. I wish there was an edit button. “zed liberal” was unintended.

    Victor (4959fb)

  7. Why Trump Can Be Convicted Even as an Ex-President. He is the poster child for why such accountability is not just constitutionally permissible but necessary. This article provides two good arguments for why Trump should be tried and convicted in the Senate. One is barring from ever holding office again, and the other is the Former Presidents Act of 1958

    Purple Haze (34bae0)

  8. @ Kevin M,

    If you are looking for cowardly ways out, suppose 15 GOP Senators have other plans that day. The rule is “two thirds of members present.”

    This too sounds like today’s Republican Party. Any member who doesn’t show up and refuses to vote (too risky for their political futures) should not be re-elected. I think this “members present” provides an easy-out for officials elected by the people to do their damn jobs. Unless you have a valid reason (death), then they need to show up and be held accountable as they (hopefully) hold the president accountable.

    Dana (cc9481)

  9. It should be pointed out that Trump was impeached while holding office, for acts committed at the end of his term. This has nothing to do with impeaching a private citizen.

    The question is therefore not “Can you impeach a former official” but “Can an official escape the punishment of being banned from further service by leaving office before a trial is concluded?”

    Two very different questions.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  10. Many Republicans are gravitating toward a technical argument: The Senate lacks jurisdiction to try him after he leaves office, they maintain, because he will be a private citizen. That could allow the Republicans to thread a political needle, voting against Mr. Trump’s conviction without having to defend his conduct, people familiar with the discussion say.

    There are people who are outraged at the attack on 1/6 and people who want Trump impeached for other reasons. None of them will be persuaded by this.

    People who like Trump aren’t going to find anything less then a full defense acceptable. They will hate this also.

    There are people who really care about the nuances of constitutional law, that’s a small group and they mostly think this is incorrect.

    What demographic do they think this in between stance will help them with?

    Time123 (653992)

  11. A stern finger wagging was all he ever needed.

    His actions will improve, you’ll see.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  12. A stern finger wagging was all he ever needed.

    His actions will improve, you’ll see.

    He just needs time to grow into the presidency…

    Dana (cc9481)

  13. Unless you have a valid reason

    Covid. Or Bill Buckley’s famous “I will be in Australia that day. If necessary.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  14. “A stern finger wagging”

    Well there certainly is a finger I would like to give him.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  15. There’s actually 4 questions.

    1. Can you impeach a former officeholder for actions that occurred before or after they held office?

    2. Can you impeach a former officeholder for actions that occurred while they held office?

    3. Can you try a former officeholder following an impeachment that occurred while they held office, for actions that occurred prior to holding office?

    4. Can you try a former officeholder following an impeachment that occurred while they held office, for actions that occurred while holding that office?

    I think the latter ones are most defensible

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  16. This. really pisses me off! That POS shouldn’t get a dime from the American taxpayer as of noon Jan 20.

    (3 U.S.C. § 102 note)

    (a) Each former President shall be entitled for the remainder of his life to receive from the United States a monetary allowance at a rate per annum, payable monthly by the Secretary of the Treasury, which is equal to the annual rate of basic pay, as in effect from time to time, of the head of an executive department, as defined in section 101 of title 5, United States Code [section 101 of Title 5]. However, such allowance shall not be paid for any period during which such former President holds an appointive or elective office or position in or under the Federal Government or the government of the District of Columbia to which is attached a rate of pay other than a nominal rate.

    (b) The Administrator of General Services shall, without regard to the civil-service and classification laws, provide for each former President an office staff. Persons employed under this subsection shall be selected by the former President and shall be responsible only to him for the performance of their duties. Each former President shall fix basic rates of compensation for persons employed for him under this paragraph which in the aggregate shall not exceed $96,000 per annum, except that for the first 30-month period during which a former President is entitled to staff assistance under this subsection, such rates of compensation in the aggregate shall not exceed $150,000 per annum. The annual rate of compensation payable to any such person shall not exceed the highest annual rate of basic pay now or hereafter provided by law for positions at level II of the Executive Schedule under section 5313 of title 5. United States Code [section 5313 of Title 5. Government Organization and Employees]. Amounts provided for “Allowances and Office Staff for Former Presidents” may be used to pay fees of an independent contractor who is not a member of the staff of the office of a former President for the review of Presidential records of a former President in connection with the transfer of such records to the National Archives and Records Administration or a Presidential Library without regard to the limitation on staff compensation set forth herein.

    (c) The Administrator of General Services shall furnish for each former President suitable office space appropriately furnished and equipped, as determined by the Administrator, at such place within the United States as the former President shall specify.

    (d) [Repealed. Pub. L. 86-682, § 12(c), Sept. 2, 1960, 74 Stat. 730. See sections 3214 and 3216 of Title 39.]

    (e) The widow of each former President shall be entitled to receive from the United States a monetary allowance at a rate of $20,000 per annum, payable monthly by the Secretary of the Treasury, if such widow shall waive the right to each other annuity or pension to which she is entitled under any other Act of Congress. The monetary allowance of such widow–

    (1) commences on the day after the former President dies;

    (2) terminates on the last day of the month before such widow–

    (A) dies; or

    (B) remarries before becoming 60 years of age; and

    (3) is not payable for any period during which such widow holds an appointive or elective office or position in or under the Federal Government or the government of the District of Columbia to which is attached a rate of pay other than a nominal rate.

    (f) As used in this section, the term “former President” means a person–

    (1) who shall have held the office of President of the United States of America;

    (2) whose service in such office shall have terminated other than by removal pursuant to section 4 of article II of the Constitution of the United States of America; and

    (3) who does not then currently hold such office.

    (g) There are authorized to be appropriated to the Administrator of General Services up to $1,000,000 for each former President and up to $500,000 for the spouse of each former President each fiscal year for security and travel related expenses: Provided, That under the provisions set forth in section 3056, paragraph (a), subparagraph (3) of title 18, United States Code [section 3056(a)(3) of Title 18, Crimes and Criminal Procedure], the former President and/or spouse was not receiving protection for a lifetime provided by the United States Secret Service under section 3056 paragraph (a) subparagraph (3) of title 18, United States Code; the protection provided by the United States Secret Service expired at its designated time; or the protection provided by the United States Secret Service was declined prior to authorized expiration in lieu of these funds.

    Purple Haze (34bae0)

  17. So, basically, we have no clue how he will vote.

    No, we have clues. What we don’t have is near certainty, like we had a year ago.

    The one problem is that Mitch McConell’s wording doesn’t jibe with what it says in the Article of Impeachment.

    He may not care all that much.

    Bit who knows?

    House members are reportedly trying to gather more evidence.

    Maybe that square peg can be pushed into that round hole.

    It would be better to pass a better crafted Resolution of Impeachment.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  18. RE; (3 U.S.C. § 102 note

    Under this, Trump could be considered to be holding an office of honor trust and profit under the United States.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  19. It’s a shame all anyone remembers is the Goldwater bastardization, but the original quote — I think it was Franklin but it may have been Thomas Paine — is the timeless wisdom we need today: “Sedition in service of owning the libs is no vice, and impeachment in pursuit of transglobal pedophilia is no virtue.”

    lurker (59504c)

  20. Mitch McConnell: The Mob Was Fed Lies. They Were Provoked By The President…

    While you feed and live on the lettuce, eh, Turtle; golly, Mitch, did Mrs. McConnell say no to any-and-all-things-Trump when she was collecting a paycheck for you two in The Donald’s Cabinet?!?!

    So says the Turtle who works on a schedule fit only for royalty. And Mitch… that ‘Mob’ is ‘you.’– your creation.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  21. Or Bill Buckley’s famous “I will be in Australia that day. If necessary.”

    Well, he’s dead and they say Hell is ‘down under.’ 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  22. Good for McConnell, for speaking an obvious truth. I hope he takes those words to their logical conclusion.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  23. @18. I’m no lawyer but:

    (f) As used in this section, the term “former President” means a person–

    (1) who shall have held the office of President of the United States of America;

    (2) whose service in such office shall have terminated other than by removal pursuant to section 4 of article II of the Constitution of the United States of America; and

    (3) who does not then currently hold such office.

    I interpret that mean that if he is convicted in the Senate he won’t receive any benefits under the Former Presidents Act. Am I wrong?

    Purple Haze (34bae0)

  24. 22.Good for McConnell, for speaking an obvious truth. I hope he takes those words to their logical conclusion.

    His resignation; Kentucky can do better.

    ______

    “The vast majority of National Guardsmen are loyal.” – Anderson Cooper, CNN 1/9/21

    The vast majority of rainstorms are wet, too, Coop. But gee, thanks for that insightful commentary that passes for journalism today.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  25. ^1/19/21

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  26. “The vast majority of National Guardsmen are loyal.” – Anderson Cooper, CNN 1/9/21

    The vast majority of rainstorms are wet, too, Coop. But gee, thanks for that insightful commentary that passes for journalism today.
    DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/19/2021 @ 12:22 pm

    Liberals only question the loyalty of white male soldiers.

    Hoi Polloi (139bf6)

  27. Disqualifying Insurrectionists and Rebels: A How-To Guide
    In recent days, several scholars and lawmakers have suggested that Section 3 of the 14th Amendment might be used to bar Donald Trump and some of his allies from ever holding federal or state office again. The Section 3 route is a plausible alternative, or potentially a supplement, to the more traditional route for sanctioning state criminals: impeachment. But a number of unresolved questions remain regarding Section 3’s scope as well as the process by which the lifetime ban can be invoked……
    ……

    No Person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

    ……
    The text is reasonably clear as to Section 3’s triggering offices: The person in question must be or have served as (1) a member of Congress, (2) an officer of the United States, (3) a member of any state legislature, or (4) an executive or judicial officer of any state. Thus, most members of the mob that descended on the Capitol on Jan. 6 are not subject to section 3: Even if they engaged in insurrection or rebellion, they haven’t served in one of the triggering offices.
    …….
    To see how the triggering-office provision works, consider the cases of Republican Rep. Mo Brooks, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani and President Trump’s eldest son, Donald Trump Jr.—all of whom are reportedly under investigation by the District of Columbia attorney general for their roles in the Jan. 6 assault. Section 3 clearly applies to Brooks if he engaged in covered conduct: He previously served in the Alabama legislature, one triggering office; he is currently a member of Congress, another triggering office; and he took an oath to support the U.S. Constitution in both capacities. Likewise for Giuliani: Mayor is a triggering office, and Giuliani also served in two other triggering offices—U.S. associate attorney general and U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York. Holders of all of these offices take oaths to support the U.S. Constitution.
    …….
    …….[T]he framers of the 14th Amendment clearly thought that Section 3 covered the president…..
    ……[There are] two types of covered conduct: (1) engaging in insurrection or rebellion against the United States, and (2) giving aid or comfort to America’s enemies.

    Section 3 does not specify what it means to “engage” in insurrection or rebellion, but subsequent case law sheds some light on that phrase. ……
    ……..
    A harder question is whether “incitement of insurrection”—the charge against President Trump in the single article of impeachment approved on Jan. 13—amounts to “engaging in insurrection.” …..
    ……
    In applying Section 3 to Trump and his allies, the hardest question concerns the covered-conduct prong. Did Trump and/or his supporters engage in insurrection or rebellion—or give aid or comfort to America’s enemies—in their efforts to overturn the 2020 election result? Even for those like me who believe that Trump’s post-election conduct is very clearly impeachable, the question of whether Trump himself engaged in Section 3-covered conduct is not so straightforward.

    Let’s start with the easiest cases. Derrick Evans, a freshman member of the West Virginia House of Delegates who forced his way into the Capitol on Jan. 6, is perhaps the starkest example of a holder of a triggering office who engaged in Section 3-covered conduct.

    The cases of Reps. Andy Biggs, Mo Brooks and Paul Gosar are not as clear-cut, in part because it’s still not clear exactly what these congressmen did. ……. Democratic Rep. Mikie Sherrill says she saw several Republican colleagues giving what she characterized as “reconnaissance” tours of the Capitol to protest leaders on Jan. 5, though she hasn’t named names. If Biggs, Brooks and Gosar actually orchestrated a violent attack on Congress from inside, then they too would seem to fall within Section 3’s ambit.

    The case against Trump depends heavily upon the definitions of “engage” and “insurrection.”…..
    ……
    The case that Trump engaged in insurrection or gave aid to insurrectionists derives greater force from his behavior after the violence was underway. Even after Trump loyalists—inspired by Trump’s lies and exhortations—had breached the Capitol building, Trump continued to lobby Senate Republicans to block the certification of results, thereby working “to bring [the insurrection] to a successful termination” under the Powell standard.. And even while the vice president was in hiding from a mob chanting “Hang Mike Pence,” Trump tweeted that Pence “didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country.” These are bad facts for Trump—certainly stronger evidence of insurrectionism than, say, socialist Victor Berger’s opposition to the First World War, though still short of a smoking gun like John D. Young’s assistance in the capture of a Union soldier or John Young Brown’s call for Kentucky Unionists to be shot.

    The case against Trump, Biggs, Brooks and Gosar is substantially stronger than the case against other congressional Republicans who backed efforts to overturn the 2020 election……
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  28. Trump is due to go on a pardon spree today and I’d be willing to bet some of it is fairly directly corrupt. I suppose it’s too late for the House to file a placeholder impeachment while he’s still president, details and facts to be filled in later.

    As an example of what he’s been up to recently, commuting the 40 year sentence of a guy convicted of a massive Ponzi scheme.

    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/01/game-recognize-game-3

    Victor (4959fb)

  29. Purple Haze, at 18 — I read that to say the opposite. If his service as President terminates because his term expired, then conviction after that date doesn’t change how his service terminated, so he’s still eligible, unless Congress passes a different law to remove him from eligibility.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  30. His resignation; Kentucky can do better.

    Trump is you. Trump is Buchanan. Buchanan is Trump. Buchanan is you. You are Trump.
    Or something like that. You own all of it.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  31. “Trump is you. Trump is Buchanan. Buchanan is Trump. Buchanan is you. You are Trump.”

    There’s the bumper sticker I’ve been looking for….

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  32. @30. No, Paul.. Trump is you</em; a GOP CIC; a wholly Reagan Creation, carried across the finish line by the Buchanan, Perot, Palin pitchforkers GOP establishment coalitioned, used, seduced, betrayed and abandoned just to win cycles.

    And you lost control of them; you suckered them one cycle too many and they finally swopped ends on you. They are you. Own it.

    “For they sow the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind.”

    ‘Before the attack started, Senator Mitch McConnell, the majority leader, decried efforts by his fellow Republicans to overturn the results of the election. But his eloquence was the very definition of a gesture both too little and too late. They who sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.’

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sow_the_wind,_reap_the_whirlwind

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  33. And even while the vice president was in hiding from a mob chanting “Hang Mike Pence,” Trump tweeted that Pence “didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country.

    Trump tweeted that at 2:24 pm. The proceedings had been interrupted in the Senate at 2:13 p.m. and in the House, for the first time, at 2:18 pm. In both cases, the presiding officer (Vice President Mike Pence and Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi) was quietly ushered off the floor a minute or three before. (Their protectors wanted to make sure that they could get out first, and quickly.)

    The final barricade had been breached at 2:10 pm and the first rioters made it inside the Capitol building at 2:11. News coverage had largely shifted to covering the disturbance. It obviously couldn’t continue past the recess. although the House went back into session from 2:26 to 2:30.

    Here are two timelines:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/15/us/trump-capitol-riot-timeline.html

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/01/12/us/capitol-mob-timeline.html

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  34. @31. This is much more apt, AJ: “‘Denial’ is a river in Egypt.”

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  35. ….unless Congress passes a different law to remove him from eligibility.

    A law is not required, a majority vote is required after he is convicted.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  36. Trump talked out of pardoning kids and Republican lawmakers
    ……
    Huddled for a lengthy meeting with his legal advisers, Trump was warned the pardons he once hoped to bestow upon his family and even himself would place him in a legally perilous position, convey the appearance of guilt and potentially make him more vulnerable to reprisals.

    So, too, was Trump warned that pardons for Republican lawmakers who had sought them for their role in the Capitol insurrection would anger the very Senate Republicans who will determine his fate in an upcoming impeachment trial.

    White House counsel Pat Cipollone and another attorney who represented Trump in his first impeachment trial, Eric Herschmann, offered the grave warnings as Trump, his daughter Ivanka and her husband Jared Kushner listened. Other lawyers joined by telephone. They all told Trump he should not pardon himself, his family or any GOP lawmakers in a prospective manner unless he was prepared to list specific crimes.
    ……
    Several Republican lawmakers who are alleged to have been involved in the rally that preceded the deadly riot on the US Capitol have sought clemency from Trump before he leaves office, but after meeting with his legal advisers for several hours on Saturday, the President decided he would not grant them, according to two people familiar with his plans.
    ……
    The fear of legal exposure is not limited to Republicans who promoted or spoke at the rally, including Reps. Andy Biggs, Mo Brooks and Paul Gosar. Those who participated, organized and fundraised for it are also concerned, sources told CNN, including his eldest son Donald Trump Jr. and his girlfriend Kimberly Guilfoyle, who both spoke at the rally.

    Top figures associated with the groups that helped organize it — including Women for America First and Turning Point Action, the political action committee arm of Turning Point USA — have also voiced private concern about legal repercussions, a person familiar tells CNN.

    Several of Trump’s closest advisers have also urged him not to grant clemency to anyone who breached the US Capitol, despite Trump’s initial stance that those involved had done nothing wrong.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  37. Capitol rioter arrested after sending ‘selfie’ to girlfriend’s brother – a federal agent
    A New York man has now been charged with participating in the Jan. 6 insurrection in D.C. after allegedly texting a picture and video of himself in the Capitol to his girlfriend’s brother – a special agent with the U.S. Diplomatic Security Service.

    According to a probable cause affidavit filed in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, the agent – who is a federal officer employed by the U.S. Department of State – reported the photo and video to the Diplomatic Security Service, which then passed it along to the Joint Terrorism Task Force.

    The agent reportedly saw a post from his sister on Facebook that her boyfriend, Thomas Fee, of Freeport, New York, was in D.C. “at the rally” on Jan. 6. The agent subsequently texted Fee, who allegedly confirmed his presence and sent him a “selfie” of him in the Capitol Rotunda, along with a video and a text saying he was “at the tip of the spear.”
    …….
    Now he’s going to be at the tip of a different spear.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  38. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/19/2021 @ 1:10 pm

    Trump is the closest thing to Buchanan as you’ll ever get for a president. Buchanan politically inhabited Trump’s body, so Trump is you.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  39. RIP Don Sutton (75). Last Dodger to have his number retired.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  40. Sutton’s Dodger records:

    233 wins (1st)
    2,696 strikeouts (1st)
    3,816 1/3 innings (1st)
    52 shutouts (1st)
    533 starts (1st)

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  41. McConnell is apoplectic that the Republicans lost control of the Senate. Now he’s no longer majority leader. At best he can be the party leader, but at 50-50, +1 with Harris as VP, the Democrats control the Senate.

    The wreckage left behind by Trump is thus complete. While Republicans did surprisingly well on the down ballots and did gain a few seats in the House, they lost control of the Senate and the White House. It’s Joe Biden’s government as of noon tomorrow, as difficult as that is to believe. Even though I voted for him, or rather voted against Trump, I’m having a hard time dealing with the outcome.

    I just hope Biden governs as a moderate or a centrist. I can live with him being center-left, but far-left is as unacceptable as far-right. He only has a short time to prove he’s up to the matter at hand.

    400,000 dead, 2 million infected, an economy in ruin, it’s a serious situation. Foreign policy in another matter entirely.

    As far as Trump goes, as soon as Pelosi submits the article of impeachment, the Senate must hold a trial. It doesn’t matter whether the President is in office or not. The trial will not be about removing him from office, but about prohibiting him from holding further office.

    At this time tomorrow, Trump will be out of office. The Pentagon has declined his request for a military send off. He will leave disgraced, impeached, humiliated, indicted and soon to be prosecuted.

    It’s not just the Senate trial he has to worry about, it’s trials in multiple states. There is no pardon he can receive for state crimes, like bank, tax and wire fraud, illegal campaign contributions.

    Trump has a lot to worry about. His hotels, resorts and golf courses are bleeding money. He owes hundreds of millions in personally guaranteed loans to foreign creditors, which come due within two years. He’ll be out of office at noon tomorrow, with nothing left to show for it than prosecution, debt and bankruptcy.

    But then he’s always been a fraud and failed con man. The Republican Party will regret electing him.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  42. Texas Lawyer Who Was Fired After Filming Himself at Capitol Files Lawsuit Declaring Trump’s Impeachment ‘Null and Void’
    A Texas lawyer who was fired from his job after posting videos of himself at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6 filed a lawsuit on Monday declaring that the “entire 117th Congress is illegitimate” and, therefore, Donald Trump’s impeachment is “null and void.” He purported to bolster that argument by saying his case was not a Sidney Powell, Lin Wood or Rudy Giuliani lawsuit.
    ……
    Recall: Davis was fired by Goosehead Insurance the day after he placed himself at the scene of the storming of the U.S. Capitol.
    ……
    To hear Davis tell it, because “every member” of the “currently-seated” Congress is “illegitimate,” Trump’s second impeachment (“for inciting an insurrection“) is “null and void”……
    ……
    The suit, filed in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Texas, names as defendants: Pete Sessions, Nancy Pelosi, Mitch McConnell, Mark Zuckerberg, Chuck Schumer, Brad Raffensperger, “all current so-called members of the 117th Congress of the United States,” and “all the state governors and secretaries of state.”

    The lawsuit is asking a federal judge to grant an injunction “forever restraining Defendants from participating in any action relating to the process of electing public officials, holding public office or any official government position, or position in any partisan enterprise related to American politics, and from defaming or threatening or otherwise interfering with the life, liberty, or property of Plaintiffs.”
    ……
    If this is the quality of his legal work he should have been fired before he went to the Capitol.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  43. A big chunk of Trump’s 1776 report appears lifted from an author’s prior work

    President Donald Trump’s 1776 Commission was supposed to be the definitive “patriotic” rejoinder to the academic left for what conservatives view as a slanderous rendering of U.S. history. But the report released by the commission on Monday has been mocked by historians as slapdash and slanted. And a good chunk appears lifted or recycled from other publications.

    An entire page of the report suggesting classroom discussion topics for teachers appears to be copied nearly verbatim from an opinion piece published in 2008 by one of the commission’s members, Thomas Lindsay.
    ………..
    The sourcing of the report’s material has come under scrutiny. Courtney Thompson, an assistant professor at Mississippi State University, ran the 1776 Report through TurnItIn, a plagiarism detection service used primarily by universities and colleges, and claimed that 26 percent of the content had been lifted in various ways from other sources without citing other sources.
    ………
    Material from a 2002 Heritage Foundation article summarizing the founding fathers’ views against slavery appears to be recycled in Section Four of the 1776 report, which argues against viewing the founders as “hypocrites” for owning slaves.
    ……..
    Another section lifts sentences from an essay published on the website for the Intercollegiate Studies Institute, an educational nonprofit that focuses on promoting conservative values on college campuses……
    …….
    Both the Heritage Foundation article and the ISI essay were written by (Dr. Matthew Spalding), who in addition to being the executive director of the commission is a professor of Constitutional Law at Hillsdale College.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  44. I just hope Biden governs as a moderate or a centrist.

    First up, cancelling the Keystone-XL pipeline which will cost more of the remaining jobs available to working-class men. Canada is very upset as it hurts them more. Why? Because Biden’s greens want a scalp.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  45. Just imagine in 2024 if the people who fought so hard for Donald Trump have someone who isn’t a ignorant, stupid, venal, self-obsessed and deranged authoritarian nincompoop championing their cause against what looks like it will be Obama’s third term.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  46. “forever restraining Defendants from participating in any action relating to the process of electing public officials, holding public office…”

    It’s loony as hell, but what if he won?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  47. Trump is the closest thing to Buchanan as you’ll ever get for a president.

    This is unfair to Pat Buchanan, who is intelligent, well-read and capable, if perhaps a bit to the right of Attila the Hun.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  48. So … when the Senate acquits him, he will still be President, right? How does that work? He moves back into the White House with Jill and Biden moves to Mar-a-Lago with Melania, but Harris is still Vice President and Pence is gone?

    nk (1d9030)

  49. The best argument, from any point of view, literalist, originalist, fair reading, living Constitution, evolving standards of decency, take your choice, is that the impeachment becomes moot at high noon tomorrow because Trump was removed from office by operation of law. The disqualification from office is almost as clear: Without an impeachment conviction for it to be collateral to, it is an unconstitutional Bill of Attainder, which Congress is explicitly forbidden to pass. If we want to disqualify from future office, we will need to convict him of disqualifying crimes in court.

    nk (1d9030)

  50. @49: Yes.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  51. I think that he can be convicted and still keep his pension.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  52. Exit question for Mr Trump: All things considered, if you had it to do over again, would you have run in 2016?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  53. Mitch McConnell should have challenged the lies no later than December 14, but he was waiting for Trump to stop it, and he didn’t want to go against part of his Republican base. He finally had to commit to not going along with Trump on January 6 (before the mob attack)

    Now his task will be much harder than it would have been had he challenged the election fraud claims earlier.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  54. 52. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/19/2021 @ 6:04 pm

    I think that he can be convicted and still keep his pension.

    It may be that it can;t be forfeited because of impeachment, but it’s also not deferred salary, and Congress can cancel it by not appropriating the money or removing him from the list of people who get it. Trump was not pocketing his presidential salary anyway, but donating it to various specific federal departments (not general revenue) for instance to the Department of Health and Human Services. He was doing that already before Covid (to show how he was against opiods)

    https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/trumpometer/promise/1341/take-no-salary

    That only takes you to the first quarter of 2020. Trump didn’t do it automatically – he distributed $100,000 quarterly, presumably after figuring out his estimated taxes.

    He gave his second (or third really – in late August) $100,000 in 2020 to the National Park Service to help pay for repairs on national monuments.

    On January 29, 2020 he gave $100,000 (for the 4th quarter of 2019) to HHS to help combat coronavirus he said. The next one went to HHS too.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  55. 53.Exit question for Mr Trump: All things considered, if you had it to do over again, would you have run in 2016?

    Ask him at his 1/20/2025 inaugural. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  56. @39. ROFLMAOPIP Conservative whine; bitter dregs.

    Own it, Paul; he’s a wholly Reagan Creation. You’re halfway to rebuilding on your rubble once “you” admit it’s a problem “you” deliberately created; suckering, seducing and abandoning those 74-plus million who clearly disagree w/”you. And they gt loose and swopped ends on ‘ya. Electing a swamp-creatured plagiarist ain’t no way t pay them back,either. But goahead and keep pissing them off. Their numbers will only grow.

    _____

    You know what the difference is between Nancy, Andy, Chuckie and Mitch?

    74-plus million voters have told you: nothing.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  57. Kevin:

    Nikki Haley (@NikkiHaley) January 14, 2021. On Wednesday, Haley tweeted, “It’s more important than ever that we stand up for our founding ideas & American values. That means defending capitalism, protecting freedom, promoting religious liberty, & ensuring American security. It’s why I launched Stand for America PAC.

    The bird is on the pad.

    You go, girl! Bob that hair and show a little maturity grey. You don’t need to mask insecurity and dress like a man in pants suits, either. Radiate confidence; project power: keep wearing dresses.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  58. Own it, Paul; he’s a wholly Reagan Creation.

    It’s possible, I suppose. Was Ronald Reagan in New York City mid-October, 1945? But I have to tell you, Trump doesn’t look at all like him.

    nk (1d9030)

  59. Trumps’ approval rating (the answer to the question what kind of a job this officeholder has been doing, to which most people add the word “lately” except when right before an election)

    Trump’s approval rating now is the lowest it has ever been – either 34% or 29%

    But it sn;t impossible he could get re-elected, or, more likely, elect someone else either because of splitting of the vote or as the better of a binary choice.

    So, yes, force him out of the running by the Senate affirming an impeachment. Maybe a trial can change public opinion, too.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  60. @59. He was ‘in and out’ a lot of things ’round then; we could ask Jane if any of ’em figured in the divorce, but she’s dead too. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  61. Breaking; CNN reports Trump has decided to pardon Steve Bannon.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  62. Now that sounds just like today’s Republican Party.

    I might point out that Mitch McConnell is a Republican. I wouldn’t read too much into what he said.

    Jerryskids (999ce8)

  63. “Breaking; CNN reports Trump has decided to pardon Steve Bannon.’

    Reminder that Bannon was incited for defrauding Trump supporters using the “We Build the Wall” campaign. It’s almost too on the nose.

    I’m gonna go out on a limb and predict that Trump doesn’t pardon the majority of the capitol rioters.

    Davethulhu (f31045)

  64. “Officials cautioned CNN that Trump’s decision was not final until he signed the paperwork. Trump told people that after much deliberation, he had decided to pardon Bannon as one of his final acts in office.”

    nk (1d9030)

  65. It’s kind of surprising in a way. Steve Bannon has really let himself go. He’s no Ronnie Jackson, Eddie Gallagher, or Sean Conelly.

    nk (1d9030)

  66. Sean *Conley*

    nk (1d9030)

  67. What if you held a presidential send off, the military declined to participate and nobody showed up?

    https://hotair.com/archives/allahpundit/2021/01/19/hoo-boy-pence-not-attending-trump-send-off-tomorrow-morning/

    Pence will attend the inauguration rather than the send off. In other words, he’s choosing duty to office over fealty to Trump.

    Given the events of January 6, this will be an inauguration like no other. Biden wants to be sworn in outdoors in public, but due to the large national guard presence and hightened security there won’t be a large crowd present, certainly not like that which attended Obama’s inauguration that outnumbered Trump’s.

    There are already threats of an assassination attempt on Biden, so crowd control will be intense. A trained sniper can hit a nickel on a target from half a mile away, thus Washington DC is in lock down, as are state capitols across the country.

    Thousands of American flags have been placed in the Western Mall. Ordinarily, that space would be reserved for citizens, but these are not ordinary times. The threat of a riot, another invasion of the Capitol, or an assassination attempt is too great. Every precaution must be taken, because these Trump supporters (insurrectionists), conspiracy theorists and QAnon followers are out of control and insane, prone to violence.

    Hence, there won’t be a large crowd at Biden’s inauguration. But it will take place. The question is, what if that small crowd outnumbers the crowd at Trump’s send off? That would be the ultimate hilarity.

    Let Trump fly off to Florida, then let the prosecutions begin. He’ll be out of office in a few hours. What hold he will have over the Republican party remains to be seen. But if McConnell votes to convict in the Senate trial, it’s not improbable that 16 other Republicans will also vote to prohibit Trump from holding or even running for federal office again.

    Real Republicans want to be rid of this dirt bag. He has over $200 million in his Defense PAC, which he can use to hold rallies or donate to primary challengers, but that’s about it. He can’t use that money to pay off his debts, of which there are hundreds of millions, personally guaranteed and due within two years. Where is he going to get that money? No bank will make him a loan. His hotels, resorts and golf courses are losing money like a sieve. He’s broke! Disgraced, impeached (twice) and soon to be prosecuted, not just in the Senate but in several state courts as well.

    What if you held a send off and nobody came? This MAGA crowd is not all that. They are far outnumbered, and any attempt at insurrection or civil war will result in humiliation and defeat. This is the legacy of Donald Trump.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  68. Lame duck administrations don’t usually make important changes like this without consulting the incoming administration (although Obama placed sanctions n Russia, including closing consulates) bt nit as late as this.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  69. Up the thread I linked where Biden’s incoming SOS, in his confirmation hearing, agrees with Pompeo’s message. I don’t see this as a landmine. I see it as giving the Biden administration the high ground (militarily speaking, not that sissy holier-than-thou other metaphor).

    nk (1d9030)

  70. Sorry, wrong thread.

    nk (1d9030)

  71. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 1/20/2021 @ 3:53 am

    Pence will attend the inauguration rather than the send off. In other words, he’s choosing duty to office over fealty to Trump.

    He said it was impossible too attend both. That could only be true if it is because of security precautions. Trump left at 8 am (I understand it was to be televised on Newsmax) – there was no need to be at the Capitol before about 10:30 am.

    Given the events of January 6, this will be an inauguration like no other. Biden wants to be sworn in outdoors in public, but due to the large national guard presence and hightened security there won’t be a large crowd present, certainly not like that which attended Obama’s inauguration that outnumbered Trump’s.

    It was already going to be much smaller because of Covid-19. There will only be about 1,000 tickets, instead of 250,000. No inaugural balls, no tea inside, many speakers remote (virtual) and 190,000 flags to stand in for people at the mall. Here a flag, there a flag, everywhere a flag,flag.

    Biden has been and will be preoccupied with ceremonies. Yesterday he arrived in Washington, D.C. after sadly bidding farewell to Delaware and saying it really should be Beau Biden who is being inaugurated.

    There was Memorial ceremony for the 400,000 people in the USA who died of coronavirus (officially – it’s really more, more even tan the number of excess deaths because the pandemic and the response to it actually saved lives – Japan has a lower overall death rate – fewer elective surgeries and automobile accidents possibly.

    After his inauguration he will visit the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. There’s the inauguration, and sometime earlier, a Catholic Mass.

    There are already threats of an assassination attempt on Biden, so crowd control will be intense. A trained sniper can hit a nickel on a target from half a mile away, thus Washington DC is in lock down, as are state capitols across the country.

    Way overreaction, but understandable. If there had not been hot pursuit of everyone seriously involved in the Jan 6 events, the extremists might have begun detailed planning for more. They are probably no more than the low thousands across the country. A lot of what they are seeing onine is bluff – and nothing is ever planned online – although maybe there could be an attemt to build up their nerves, and recruit more, and convince people who might join that there are more of them. People involved in Jan 6 are being turned in by members of their family.

    What hold he will have over the Republican party remains to be seen.

    He, or his vote fraud lies, have a hold over certain state parties, like for instance Arizona. And the RNC.

    But if McConnell votes to convict in the Senate trial, it’s not improbable that 16 other Republicans will also vote to prohibit Trump from holding or even running for federal office again.

    It would help if the House got its facts straight. Or was interested in facts. It doesn;t matter so much. More publicity alone will help discredit Trump.

    Real Republicans want to be rid of this dirt bag. He has over $200 million in his Defense PAC, which he can use to hold rallies or donate to primary challengers, but that’s about it.

    He can continue to raise more. Even with handicaps.

    He can’t use that money to pay off his debts, of which there are hundreds of millions, personally guaranteed and due within two years. Where is he going to get that money? No bank will make him a loan. His hotels, resorts and golf courses are losing money like a sieve.

    He’s going to have to sell some things. and hpe things go back to normal. After rebranding maybe.

    But he can make money in some foreign countries. That is not a good situation to put him in.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  72. Every Republican senator knows that if he votes for conviction, he will draw a well-funded Republican primary opponent in his next election.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  73. And if he doesn’t challenge the Trumpists, he stands a high risk of losing in the general election any place that’s not a highly Republican state because you cannot gerrymander a state.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  74. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    Lame duck administrations don’t usually make important changes like this without consulting the incoming administration (although Obama placed sanctions n Russia, including closing consulates) bt nit as late as this.

    Perhaps you’ve forgotten how President Obama sent Secretary of State John Kerry to make a two-hour televised presentation on American policy toward Israel and the Palestinians on December 27, 2016, trying to hamper President Trump’s Middle East policy.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  75. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    And if he doesn’t challenge the Trumpists, he stands a high risk of losing in the general election any place that’s not a highly Republican state because you cannot gerrymander a state.

    This is the part you don’t get: President Trump has the support of a heavy majority of the Republican Party.

    Donald Trump won the nomination in 2016 because he said the things that most Republican voters were thinking, and did not try to make his words politically correct or palatable to others. The other candidates mealy-mouthed around subjects like illegal immigration, because they didn’t want the credentialed media to excoriate them as raaaaacists; Mr Trump was right out there, saying he’d build a wall to stop the illegals from coming in and send back the ones already here.

    How much of this will be in the rear view mirror in 2022, we can’t know. With the disastrous policies that the incoming [shudder!] President is going to impose on us, I’m guessing that many, many people will be wanting to hinder the Biden Administration as much as possible.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  76. A lot odf Republicans are going to be trapped like Lisa Murkowsky was in Alaska in 2010 or Arlen Spector in Pennsylvania the same year. Or like Democrat Joe Lieberman in Connecticut in 2006.

    Lieberman could win in 2006 but couldn’t again in 2012. Lisa Murkowski’s loss in the Republican primary was a 1-time thing but has made her very independent. Arlen Spector decided to switch parties, but that was a losing strategy also.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  77. The Ghost of Mr Gawain wrote:

    Real Republicans want to be rid of this dirt bag. . . . This MAGA crowd is not all that. They are far outnumbered,

    Were that true, Jeb Bush or Ted Cruz or Carly Fiorina would have won the nomination in 2016. Were that true, President Trump wouldn’t have won over 70 million votes in 2020.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  78. And there will none of them be missed: https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_Senate_elections,_2022

    nk (1d9030)

  79. Thankfully (see my comments from last evening), this is an instance where law and self-interest coincide. Not an uncommon thing, honestly.

    nk (1d9030)

  80. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    A lot odf Republicans are going to be trapped like Lisa Murkowsky was in Alaska in 2010 or Arlen Spector in Pennsylvania the same year.

    Lisa Murkowski was defeated in the Republican primary by low turnout and a TEA Party candidate. Arlen Specter had faced Pat Toomey in the 2004 Pennsylvania primary, and just barely squeaked by. Senator Specter was losing support in the Pennsylvania Republican Party because he was moving too far toward the Democrats, long before he switched parties.

    I voted for Mr Toomey in that primary, and, in the general election, I voted for the Constitution Party candidate, because Senator Specter had such a large lead that I wasn’t worried that the Democrat would win. If it had been closer, I would have voted for Senator Specter.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  81. The Republicans will lose their majority in the United States Senate this afternoon.

    The certificates signed by the Governor, will arrive for the two new United States Senators from Georgia will arrive, and they will be sworn in, along with the replacement for Kamala Harris from California, and the Senate will be split 50-50 with Vice President Kamala Harris casting the deciding vote.

    It just works out that way.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  82. Real Republicans want to be rid of this dirt bag. He has over $200 million in his Defense PAC, which he can use to hold rallies or donate to primary challengers, but that’s about it. He can’t use that money to pay off his debts, of which there are hundreds of millions, personally guaranteed and due within two years. Where is he going to get that money? No bank will make him a loan. His hotels, resorts and golf courses are losing money like a sieve. He’s broke! Disgraced, impeached (twice) and soon to be prosecuted, not just in the Senate but in several state courts as well.

    He can use that money to start a 3rd party. He can hold rallies at Trump branded properties and buy services from Trump organization companies and sell lots of new swag. Shirts and signs and hats and beer cozies and whatever.

    The 200 million funds the rally, at the rally they sell a lot of swag at a profit to Trump. It’s all profit because the costs are covered by the leadership PAC. It’s a victimless crime because the only people who lose out are the morons who still believe in Trump.

    Time123 (36651d)

  83. Joe Biden (and “Dr. Jill Biden”) being introduced and walking on to the stage to some music (not “Hail to the Chief”)

    Aides tell news reporters his Inaugural address will be 20 to 30 minutes long.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  84. A leadership PAC can only donate $5,000 to any one candidate. Among other things, that’s what made Trump and Ted Cruz (R-cow barn) using the Georgia runoffs to fund-raise such a grift.

    nk (1d9030)

  85. NK, That’s true once he declares. But I believe the PAC could fund a rally next month. It could also buy goods and services from business Trump profits from.

    Time123 (6e0727)

  86. Senator Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) is the Master of Ceremonies (I think because he still the Chairman of the Senate Rules Committee, and as such got put in charge of the Inaugural arrangements)

    Pledge of Allegiance, National Anthem.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  87. I meant the “well-funded Republican primary opponents”, Time123.

    Here’s the deal, and I put up the Georgia runoff as evidence. Trump’s base is not going to wake up before sundown and nurse their hangovers all the way to the polling place for anyone other than Trump. If he’s not there, they don’t care who is.

    nk (1d9030)

  88. NK, I’m not disagreeing with you about that. I’m saying that if Trump starts a new party it will be for 3 reasons.
    1. To get Donald Trump attention.
    2. To make money selling merch to marks.
    3. To get people named Trump elected.

    That’s it. It won’t be a movement. It won’t be the start a new populist party. It will be for attention and an opportunity to rip people off.

    Time123 (6e0727)

  89. Joe Biden’s inaugural address: “Democracy had prevailed.”

    “taken as many lives in one year as..in World War II”

    Their watches must be running fast.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  90. Not a bad speech, and somewhat topical.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  91. Their watches must be running fast. It’s only noon now.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  92. The whole ceremony throughout, had elements of an African Methodist Episcopal church service (although I’ve never been in one)

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  93. After a week of investigation CNN and Washington Post are saying that the groups that attacked the Capitol had made their plans to do so well ahead of the event. The assault was planned and under way before the President got to the fiery language.
    We can move the goalposts a bit and say that the instigation was not the speech itself, but rather the shrill insistence that the election had been stolen, but he basis of the second impeachment falls apart because it was supposed to be due to incitement by Trump during his speech. The timeline is now found to be off because riot was preplanned and underway even if Trump had just read the phone book.
    That is what happens during a rush to judgement. Now we’ve set the precedent that we are going to impeach Presidents on their way out the door before any exculpatory evidence can be collected and then smugly congratulate ourselves.

    steveg (43b7a5)


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