Patterico's Pontifications

1/18/2021

What’s Up With Trump’s Defense Team?

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:02 am



[guest post by Dana]

Given Rudy Guiliani and his uh, level of professionalism, this actually seems like a positive for Team Trump:

President Trump’s personal lawyer, Rudolph W. Giuliani, will not be taking part in the president’s defense in the Senate trial for his second impeachment, a person close to Mr. Trump said on Monday.

Mr. Trump met with Mr. Giuliani on Saturday night at the White House, and the next day the president began telling people that Mr. Giuliani was not going to be part of the team. It is unclear who will be a defense lawyer for Mr. Trump, given that many attorneys have privately said they won’t represent him.

Mr. Giuliani himself at first said he was taking part in the trial and then a day later said he had no involvement.

He told ABC News on Sunday that he would not be part of the defense, noting that he is a potential witness since he gave a speech at the rally on Jan. 6 of Trump supporters who went on to storm the Capitol complex, overtaking it for hours.

Yet a day earlier, Mr. Giuliani told ABC News that he would in fact be involved in the impeachment defense, and left open the possibility of Mr. Trump showing up for the trial. That interview infuriated Trump advisers and was a bridge too far for the president himself, according to the person close to the president, who described personal conversations on condition of anonymity.

Guiliani specifically said he wouldn’t be on the impeachment defense team because:

I gave an earlier speech [at the January 6 Trump rally], I am a witness and therefore unable to participate in court or Senate chamber.

And most unsurprisingly of all, efforts to engage a credible lawyer have been hampered by…Trump. Of course:

Some allies have also told Trump that he will need to take some responsibility for inciting the riot if he wants a serious lawyer to defend him, which he has indicated he doesn’t want to do.

The President of the United States is facing an impeachment trial and can’t find a credible lawyer to represent him because he, incredibly and yet predictably, doesn’t believe he played a part in what happened at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6. But still, even I can think of one or two lawyers that might be willing to do the job. The best part is after the election was called for Joe Biden, they both very publicly and cynically sacrificed their integrity and credibility on behalf of Trump, so they’re already MAGA qualified.

–Dana

114 Responses to “What’s Up With Trump’s Defense Team?”

  1. It always circles back to Trump.

    Dana (cc9481)

  2. Some allies have also told Trump that he will need to take some responsibility for inciting the riot if he wants a serious lawyer to defend him, which he has indicated he doesn’t want to do.

    He definitely should not listen to those “allies”, and even more definitely not hire any “serious” lawyer who demands that as a condition of representation. The impeachment is the least of his legal worries. He is facing the death penalty for treason, sedition, rebellion, insurrection, and the murder of a peace officer.

    nk (1d9030)

  3. He has never needed his lifelong habit of lying and avoiding responsibility more than he does now.

    nk (1d9030)

  4. And Cruz can’t even offer to play Roy Cohn since he’s on the jury. I’d love to see Trump himself testify.

    Paul Montagu (886d94)

  5. Of course Trump has trouble hiring lawyers because he won’t listen to them and won’t pay them. Top lawyers run away from guys like that, don’t they? Even mediocre ones would.

    He’s only left with squirrels and nuts, but that may be enough to keep Republican Senate allies from convicting him.

    noel (9fead1)

  6. ‘Some allies have also told Trump that he will need to take some responsibility for inciting the riot if he wants a serious lawyer to defend him, which he has indicated he doesn’t want to do.’

    “As the man in charge, I, of course, accept full responsibility. But not the blame.” – Richard Nixon [David Frye] ‘Richard Nixon; A Fantasy’ Buddah Records, 1973

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIANHy1uv0c

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  7. There’s Alan Dershowitz, and he could get someone with a record of working in the field of civil liberties. Who is old.

    The best thing for him would be to simultaneously negotiate a pardon or a plea bargain (a plea bargain has the same legal effect as a pardon) in return for not opposing conviction by the Senate.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  8. I hear Michael Avenatti is looking for work.

    Dave (1bb933)

  9. A pardon could be timed for just before the Senate vote, and could exclude the most serious possible charges..

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  10. What’s Up With Trump’s Defense Team?”

    Speaking of which- does that include the 25,000 Nat’l Guard?!?

    Now that they’re already deployed w/arms and ammo, seems the FBI has decided it might be a good time to vet them for any possible pro-Trump ‘defense teams’ all their own.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  11. The reason why no credible lawyer will take this case is because he or she expects to be paid. This is not a trial taken on contingent basis, because there’s no one-third to be won in the end. Lawyers that take cases like this charge at least $500 a billable hour.

    There’s no indication Trump can afford that. He’s been under investigation by the Manhattan DA and the New York AG for bank, tax and wire fraud. No bank, not even Deutsche, will lend him any money. He owes hundreds in personally guaranteed loans to foreign creditors, due within two years. His hotels, resorts and golf courses are bleeding money. He’s lost the PGA tour.

    He’s broke, deeply in debt. No lawyer would take this case if he or she wasn’t paid upfront, and Trump doesn’t have the money.

    It hurts, doesn’t it. This trial is not about removing him from office; it’s about preventing him from holding further office.

    There is not a lawyer in the country who would take this case without being paid first. And Trump does not have the money. It’s that simple.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  12. @11. There’s always bartering: a helicopter, a lifetime membership to a Trump golf/CC of choice– and, of course, a mistress to be named later. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  13. A lawyer concerned about civil liberties, and precedents, might take it pro bono, or more likely, and less generously, take it on with the risk that Trump might not have money, or might not want to pay him. Pro bono, by the way, might be considered a political contribution, were Trump to run again.

    (But he just raised several hundred million dollars, and he could use his slush fund for that, and Trump has money until his debts come due in 2023.)

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  14. There’s Alan Dershowitz…

    The Dersh already declined. Trump already shot his legal wad with his Election Fraud Hoax. There’s no one with any semi-gravitas left.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  15. Now that they’re already deployed w/arms and ammo, seems the FBI has decided it might be a good time to vet them for any possible pro-Trump ‘defense teams’ all their own.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/18/2021 @ 10:59 am

    Ummm… good?

    It’s just common sense. If you can screen 25k people in a couple days you should teach the FBI but I am OK with a little common sense that the guys with guns around the president shouldn’t be nuts. It would be cowardly to avoid this subject just because it provides more drama to internet commentary.

    Let’s not beat around the bush. A lot of those guys with rifles and scopes around the capitol have thought about assassinating the next president. Too many of them. Biden’s security issues are different from Trump’s because of that. Always will be. Trump crossed the line no one else did, using the bully pulpit to convince millions their democracy was stolen. It’s the greatest crime against America any president has ever committed.

    I know, you want to say ‘no. nixon.’ Let’s be clear that that is an extremely ridiculous opinion. It’s also predictable that Biden will be mocked as a coward for having more protection than Trump needed. All trump’s opponents needed to get rid of him was to vote.

    The reason why no credible lawyer will take this case is because he or she expects to be paid.

    Maybe? I am surprised there aren’t some pretty good lawyers jumping at the chance to cement their name in the history books. Even though siding with Trump seems ruthless at this point, I bet Trump could get a lawyer to represent him for free. The problem is that a lawyer representing Trump would need some cooperation from Trump. Trump has shown tremendous, obvious mental decline and is basically impossible to work with, with incredibly high stakes. I think that’s the big problem. Would you teach a drunk how to fly a plane while he’s chugging a bottle?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  16. A pardon could be timed for just before the Senate vote, and could exclude the most serious possible charges..

    The Constitution excludes impeachment’s from the pardon power.

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  17. I am surprised there aren’t some pretty good lawyers jumping at the chance to cement their name in the history books. Even though siding with Trump seems ruthless at this point, I bet Trump could get a lawyer to represent him for free.

    Indeed, it is essentially free advertising.

    Also, the lawyer could probably grift off the hordes of MAGA drones who are supposedly economically destitute but nevertheless somehow have hundreds of millions of dollars sitting around to make political donations when so ordered by The Great Leader.

    Dave (1bb933)

  18. He is facing the death penalty for treason, sedition, rebellion, insurrection, and the murder of a peace officer.

    No, he’s not, though some of insurrectionists might. Prosecutors would need to establish Trump’s intent.

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  19. 14. Dershowitz declined?

    https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-01-17/alan-dershowitz-named-to-trumps-impeachment-legal-team

    Oh, that was last year.

    This was this year:

    https://www.bostonherald.com/2021/01/14/alan-dershowitz-is-not-going-to-be-part-of-trumps-second-impeachment-defense-team

    It’s not clear if he declined, or Trump didn’t agree to take him, or they disagreed on strategy or on his role, or on compensation.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  20. Rip Murdock (f56c1e) — 1/18/2021 @ 11:33 am

    Prosecutors would need to establish Trump’s intent.

    But he still could be accused, and there’s felony murder for any felony.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  21. ….. there’s felony murder for any felony.

    I’m sure our host can specifically answer that question, but prosecutors would need to prove that Trump’s speech could have foreseeably led to the police officer’s murder. Not gonna happen.

    For a good discussion of Trump’s and related insurrectionist legal issues with Ken White (Popehat), go here.

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  22. @15. Ummm…. a little more like closing the barn door after the horse has bolted, locked and loaded.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  23. The Constitution excludes impeachment’s from the pardon power.

    I wonder about that, Rip. It’s clear that Trump can’t use his pardon power for the current articles of impeachment no matter what, but there could be wriggle room for his prior offenses and felonies, assuming a self-pardon would hold water in the first place.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  24. Trump is busy today:

    Executive Order on Protecting Americans From Overcriminalization Through Regulatory Reform

    Executive Order on Protecting Law Enforcement Officers, Judges, Prosecutors, And Their Families

    Executive Order on Building the National Garden of American Heroes

    Proclamation on National Sanctity of Human Life Day, 2021

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  25. It’s clear that Trump can’t use his pardon power for the current articles of impeachment no matter what,

    I think Trump’s pardon pertains to what the DOJ (And the rest of the executive branch) can touch, and has no power over the legislature, which doesn’t even need a codified offense. The supreme court will not touch these kinds of political questions, so really it’s just a matter of what you can get a supermajority of Senators to go along with (absolutely nothing?).

    Dustin (4237e0)

  26. He’ll beat the rap.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  27. Again.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  28. The same conflict of interest applies to John Eastman, Trump’s election lawsuit lawyer and former law professor at Chapman University.

    Sydney Powell and Lin Wood are available.

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  29. He’ll beat the rap.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/18/2021 @ 12:30 pm

    That misses the point. The notion of convicting Trump with all the GOP Senators helping out is a super long shot. It was clear quick it wouldn’t happen last week. If Team D has control over how the process goes, they can present witnesses and some shocking revelations about GOP congressional assistance, and suddenly a preference cascade emerges. In coming weeks, we should expect law enforcement in New York, and perhaps Georgia, to make Trump look worse and worse (And he can’t beat all those raps). If Trump pardons Ghislaine, all bets are off.

    Look at Trump’s remaining soldiers. Rudy, Cruz, Lindsey Graham. These aren’t folks you can count on in a foxhole, to put it mildly.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  30. @30. That misses the point.

    Except it doesn’t.

    Trump luck, Dustin. Since the 80s…

    Buy that lottery ticket. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  31. So, attorneys line up in droves to represent mass murderers, terrorists and baby-rapers, but not the President of the United States? Of course, the former don’t try to run the defense.

    Maybe Ted Cruz should resign from the Senate to defend him.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  32. I am pretty sure his defense will be “proving that the election was stolen.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  33. As far as the 25,000 troops, I hear the troops are now a problem because they are all men, many are white men, and all white men are suspect now.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  34. The notion of convicting Trump with all the GOP Senators helping out is a super long shot.

    If all the Democrats go along, and Manchin maybe won’t (to show his “independence”) they’ll need just one third (17 out of 50) of the Republican Senators to convict.

    Once convicted, only 5 Senators are needed to impose a penalty.O course, it would be much better to get 0% of the Republican Senators to vote to convict. But they’ll probably need different articles of impeachment for that. They’re accusing his statements in his speech of – forseeably yet – resulting in lawless action aat the Capitol and that’s simply not true, unless he was in on the planning for which we have no evidence – and members of the crowd he addressed “breached and vandalized” the Capitol, while it is known for a fact that it was first breached before he even finished speaking by people who came prepared, and did not listen to his speech but went directly to the Capitol.

    Then it says he threatened Brad Raffensperger when he didn’t really except with the inevitable consequences or his imaginary crime, and, of course, politically.

    A lot of Republicans might seek shelter just with the claim that it is invalid to impeach someone who does not currently hold federal office (not true – it is just that it hasn’t been done much)

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  35. Prosecutors would need to establish Trump’s intent.

    You can’t prove intent, you can only establish its likelihood based on his speech and actions. I think treason is unlikely anyway, sedition requires more than just incitement, but plain incitement seems evident. Not sure how far felony murder stretches here.

    I think you’d have to prove murder for there to be any chance of a death penalty. The SC has so far rejected death as a penalty for anything else, although treason has not been tested.

    Even if you could prove treason I would object to the death penalty since it limits how long you can attaint his offspring.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  36. prosecutors would need to prove that Trump’s speech could have foreseeably led to the police officer’s murder.

    I think a murder would suffice.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  37. assuming a self-pardon would hold water in the first place.

    Which it won’t, given a court of even slight honesty.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  38. @38

    assuming a self-pardon would hold water in the first place.

    Which it won’t, given a court of even slight honesty.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/18/2021 @ 1:48 pm

    I’m not convinced the courts would entertain a self-pardon.

    It’s likely non-justicible just as the Congress’ impeachment powers is.

    whembly (4c6c6d)

  39. KM @36-
    Treason wouldn’t apply at all, given the insurrection doesn’t meet the Constitutional definition:

    Article III, Section 3, Clause 1:

    Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

    However, seditious conspiracy (18 U.S. Code § 2384) for insurrectionists (not Trump) is a possibility (my boldface).

    If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  40. Look at it any way you want. Trump is something that America will be scraping off the bottom of her shoe, and that’s unavoidably a messy process.

    nk (1d9030)

  41. Rip @42:

    Yes, that’s why I dismissed treason. I think proving a conspiracy, which is more than just incitement, would be hard. So, I’m not keen on seditious conspiracy either, at least not for Trump. The folks who brought rope, nooses and zip ties, otoh, do show evidence of just such a conspiracy. The fact they failed to hang anyone is not for the lack of trying. Also the capital murder, which for Trump again requires something more than mere incitement. I think. I don’t know the case law, and it’s murky when you have to talk a jury into it.

    OTOH, should you find a Congressman who aided and abetted a seditious conspiracy, you might get that treason charge. Also, if Trump actively prevented the government from fielding a defense you again get to aiding and abetting, conspiracy and treason.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  42. @42: That’s part and parcel of her husband’s refusal of hospitality. I would have been surprised if Melania had broken with Donald there.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  43. @39: I think that an attempted self-pardon is eminently justiciable. The question is “Does the pardon power in the Constitution extend to a self-pardon?” and ANY examination of the extensive debate in 1787 would indicate that they had utterly no intention that it should (and it was probably so bent that even Franklin and Gerry didn’t see it). Had they thought that might be the case they would not have argued for days about a traitorous President pardoning his co-conspirators.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  44. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/18/2021 @ 1:45 pm

    sedition requires more than just incitement, but plain incitement seems evident.

    No, there’s no incitement.

    Post hoc, ergo propter hoc is a logical fallacy.

    For something to be incitement, according to the Supreme Court, the result has to be intended, it has to be likely, and it has to be imminent, not days or weeks later. Although then it might be conspiracy.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  45. What is not justiciable is whether a given exercise of the normal pardon power is valid.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  46. For something to be incitement, according to the Supreme Court, the result has to be intended (hoped for is enough), it has to be likely (it happened), and it has to be imminent (it happened right away)

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  47. The person who said Ted Cruz would want them to do this was rifling through Ted Cruz’ desk!

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  48. Sedition requires conspiracy, which is more than just incitement, it adds planning to the mix.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  49. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/18/2021 @ 4:25 pm

    imminent (it happened right away)

    Wile he was still talking,

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  50. Third Lady Melania Trump proves she has even less class than Hillary Clinton

    Meh! Like Melania would be anything more than waste of Jill Biden’s time. She is little more than bric-a-brac. High maintenance bric-a-brac but still bric-a-brac. (The other thing she has been claimed to be, we only have Trump’s word for, and I’m sure that Dr. Jill doesn’t swing that way, anyway.)

    Jill Biden was Second Lady for eight years, is very intelligent and well-educated, and if she needs help with being First Lady, she can turn to Michelle, Laura, or even Hillary.

    nk (1d9030)

  51. Trump lifts Covid-19-related travel restrictions for much of Europe, the UK, Ireland and Brazil
    …….
    In an executive order issued Monday evening, Trump said he had been advised to lift restrictions for European countries in the Schengen Zone, which consists of 26 countries, the UK, Ireland and Brazil but leave in place restrictions on travel from Iran and China.

    “I agree with the Secretary that this action is the best way to continue protecting Americans from COVID-19 while enabling travel to resume safely,” Trump wrote in the order, referring to Secretary of Health and Human Services Alex Azar.
    President-elect Joe Biden is set to take over the presidency on Wednesday and his incoming press secretary, Jen Psaki, said that his administration would not lift the restrictions.

    “With the pandemic worsening, and more contagious variants emerging around the world, this is not the time to be lifting restrictions on international travel,” Psaki said on Twitter. “On the advice of our medical team, the Administration does not intend to lift these restrictions on 1/26. In fact, we plan to strengthen public health measures around international travel in order to further mitigate the spread of COVID-19.”
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  52. Murdering more Americans up to the very last minute.

    nk (1d9030)

  53. Third Lady Melania Trump

    I hope that no one continues to call Jill Biden “Second Lady” after the 20th, even though she is his second wife. It was tacky enough with Melania.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  54. https://www.adl.org/blog/extremists-and-mainstream-trump-supporters-plan-to-protest-congressional-certification-of

    January 4, 2021

    ……Various organizers have filed for at least four permits related to the January 6 rallies. These include a Capitol lawn “Stop the Steal/Wild Protest” organized by right-wing provocateur Ali Alexander, a “Trump March” at Freedom Plaza organized by Women for America First, a march led by James Epley of South Carolina from the Mall to the Capitol lawn and a “MAGA Wild” rally organized by the Eighty Percent Coalition, a reference to a November Gallup poll that found that more than 80% of Republicans do not trust the election results. A fifth event, “Operation Occupy the Capitol” is being promoted on social media, but it is not clear who is promoting the event.

    Online chatter among potential attendees has increase increased in the days leading up to the rally .,,,, In response to a user who wondered what happens if Congress ignores “evidence” that President Trump won the election, a user wrote, “Storm the capitol” and another added, “My truck is lifted and I have a plow on it right now. What do you need Mr. President?” …

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  55. @55. Hope no one calls ‘Dr.Jill-I-married-a-plagiarist-Biden’ for medical advice, either. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  56. Heh! Whoever Trump’s lawyers turn out to be, they should thank Jack Dorsey for shutting Trump up.

    nk (1d9030)

  57. Somebody was making up stories – different kinds of stories – about Antifa:

    Meanwhile, conspiracies about “antifa” activity at the D.C. rally are spreading on social media. These include accusations that antifa plans to infiltrate the ranks of the attendees, as well as allegations that antifa is preparing to intercept “Patriot” convoys heading to D.C. and plan to attack attendees at Metro stations. Photos of construction materials are also being shared, accompanied by the theory that antifa has planted them to use against rally attendees. The rising anti-police sentiment on the far right is also evident in the form of conspiracies alleging that police are “escorting” antifa into D.C.

    Antifa supposedly was going to attack them.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  58. https://theweek.com/speedreads/959808/extremists-publicly-shared-violent-plans-operation-occupy-capitol-weeks-ago

    And Trump backers weren’t just making their plans on fringe websites. A digital flyer advertising “Operation Occupy the Capitol” on Jan. 6 publicly made its way around Facebook and Instagram as the use of extremist hashtags surged. Read more at NBC News. Kathryn Krawczyk

    That links to this story:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/extremists-made-little-secret-ambitions-occupy-capital-weeks-attack-n1253499

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  59. 54. nk (1d9030) — 1/18/2021 @ 5:00 pm

    Murdering more Americans up to the very last minute.

    This is best explained by the idea that things need to be reciprocal, and Trump wants to be able to visit his golf courses in Scotland and Ireland, and other places.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  60. This is best explained by the idea that things need to be reciprocal, and Trump wants to be able to visit his golf courses in Scotland and Ireland, and other places.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca) — 1/18/2021 @ 5:58 pm

    nk realizes that Trump is doing it to make money or whatever. But it’s still a decision that knowingly will lead to death for many Americans so …

    Dustin (4237e0)

  61. Well, (re: Trump Defense team) that is the story as of today anyway.

    Yesterday I wrote an ill tempered post about California’s inoculators taking MLK Day off, only to find that today the story is:
    A. No one has had a day off since Thanksgiving… (I’m gonna need proof… sorry)
    B. The people running the inoculation process needed the day off to come up with a better plan
    (cue Church Lady saying: “How convenient”)
    Sorry but you are going to have to show me

    steveg (43b7a5)

  62. When Scotland’s government is our best defense to the new virus strain ….

    nk (1d9030)

  63. QAnon adherents discussed posing as National Guard to try to infiltrate inauguration, according to FBI intelligence briefing
    The FBI privately warned law enforcement agencies Monday that far-right extremists have discussed posing as National Guard members in Washington and others have reviewed maps of vulnerable spots in the city — signs of potential efforts to disrupt Wednesday’s inauguration, according to an intelligence report obtained by The Washington Post.
    ……
    But the intelligence briefing did not identify any specific plots to attack the inaugural events that would be akin to the Jan. 6 siege on the Capitol and noted that “numerous” militia and extremist groups are publicly denouncing any violence targeted at the transition of presidential power.
    …….
    “QAnon members have discussed posing as National Guard soldiers, believing that it would be easy for them to infiltrate secure areas,” according to the document, which added that members have been crowdsourcing images to surveil the security perimeter.
    …….
    Potential impostors could possess U.S. military uniforms through a number of means, including prior military service and surplus stores.
    ……..

    “Concerns of lone wolf actors are increasing,” according to the report, which noted that five people who took part in an armed demonstration at the Ohio Statehouse on Sunday have said they were traveling to Washington for the inauguration.

    The FBI has also observed an increase in surveillance of law enforcement’s security preparations for the inauguration. According to the report, National Guard soldiers have reported seeing several individuals photographing and recording their work. Some of those videos have been uploaded online, the FBI report said.

    The intelligence briefing also noted reports of unknown individuals accessing camera footage of secured areas where public access is prohibited.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  64. ‘Traitors Get Shot': Capitol Rioter Accused of Threatening Children if They Turned Him In
    ………
    Guy Reffitt, of Wylie, Texas, is accused of obstruction of justice and unlawful entry in connection with the insurrection at the Capitol on January 6.

    According to an affidavit signed by FBI special agent Thomas Ryan, Reffitt was seen at the Capitol building in Washington, D.C. washing eyes out with water after allegedly being hit with pepper spray while in the restricted area during the riot.

    On January 16, FBI agents executed a search warrant on Reffitt’s home. During the search, Reffitt’s wife, juvenile daughter and adult male son were also present.

    According to the affidavit, the son told authorities that Reffitt admitted to being in Washington on January 6 having “stormed the Capitol.” On January 11, Reffitt told the family that he had to delete his Go Pro footage that he filmed on the day of the attack as the FBI were now watching him.

    The son said that Reffitt told him that if he went to the police that his father would have no option but to “do what he had to do” for the country.

    When the son asked if this was a threat, Reffitt replied, “Don’t put words in my mouth.” The son told the FBI he took Reffitt’s comments to be a threat to his life.

    Reffitt is alleged to have told his minor daughter that if she used her phone to tell her friends that he was at the Capitol he would “put a bullet” through it.

    Reffitt’s wife also told authorities that on January 11, her two children said Reffitt threatened them with words to the effect of: “If you turn me in, you’re a traitor and you know what happens to traitors…traitors get shot.”
    …….
    The wife added that Reffitt is a member of the Three Percenters, a right-wing militia group known for their violent rhetoric.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  65. Parler partially reappears with support from Russian technology firm
    …….
    On Monday, Parler’s website was reachable again, though only with a message from its chief executive saying he was working to restore functionality.

    The internet protocol address it used is owned by DDos-Guard, which is controlled by two Russian men and provides services including protection from distributed denial of service attacks, infrastructure expert Ronald Guilmette told Reuters.
    ……..
    DDoS-Guard has worked with other racist, rightist and conspiracy sites that have been used by mass murderers to share messages, including 8kun. It has also supported Russian government sites.

    DDoS-Guard’s website lists an address in Scotland under the company name Cognitive Cloud LP, but that is owned by two men in Rostov-on-Don, Russia, Guilmette said. One of them told the Guardian recently that he was not aware of all of the content the company facilitates.

    Parler critics said it was a potential security risk for it to depend on a Russian company, as well as an odd choice for a site popular with self-described patriots.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (f56c1e)

  66. If Q, as in the Q of QAnon, is not an FSB colonel named Vasily Vasilovich Vasilovsky, Putin needs to send all the top brass of the FSB to Siberia for not thinking of it first.

    nk (1d9030)

  67. The video of the ransacking of the Capitol provided by The New Yorker is disturbing. The siege on January 6 was planned and organized, and the insurrectionists came equipped to commit violence, which they did (five dead, including two Capitol police officers), and apparently intended to take certain members of Congress hostage.

    In the video, one Capitol police officer can be heard saying, “We love you.” Who is “we”? Several Congress members are under investigation for aiding and abetting the siege, for giving guided tours of the Capitol to the insurrectionists in the days prior to the invasion. Two Capitol police officers have been fired for participating in the riot; more are under investigation.

    This is indefensible. There is no justification for it. The ultimate irony is that the only walls or fences being built are around the US and state Capitols, and they’re not for keeping out illegal aliens but Trump supporters! Washington DC is a fortress now, with 25,000 National Guard protecting it.

    Speaker Pelosi has not yet sent the article of impeachment to the Senate. Perhaps she’s waiting for when the membership is 50-50 (+1 for the Democrats with Harris as VP), and McConnell is no longer majority leader. There won’t be a majority leader for the Democrats either, since neither party have a majority, so there will only be leaders of the respective parties.

    I suppose it doesn’t matter when the Speaker sends the article of impeachment to the Senate. The President has already been impeached (for a second time). He’ll be out of office on January 20. So the Senate trial will not be about removing him from office, but rather about prohibiting him from holding office again.

    Once the Speaker submits the article of impeachment, there will be a trial. But it will be a political not a criminal trial. Perhaps the reason why credible attorneys don’t want to take this case is because they don’t want to defend the indefensible. I’m sure there are a few who will take the case, maybe pro bono, if only to make a name for themselves, but ultimately the outcome will be determined by Senate Republicans. Several of them have said they want to use the proceedings to present evidence of voter fraud and prove the election was stolen. In other words, to promote the Big Lie. That would be a mistake in a fractured party.

    Traditionally, since WW II, the outgoing and incoming President would take a ride in a limousine and attend the inauguration together. The outgoing President would leave a note on the Resolute Desk for the incoming President. That’s not going to happen this year.

    Trump wants a military sendoff at Andrews Air Force Base, with a band and a 21-gun salute. What a joke.

    He’s calling on his supporters to attend so that he will have a larger crowd for his departure than Biden will for his inauguration. It’s all about crowd size with this guy, and he lies about it all the time.

    Tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow
    Creeps in this petty pace till the last syllable of recorded time
    And all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death
    Out, out, brief candle
    Life’s but a walking shadow
    A poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage
    And then is heard no more
    It is a tale told by an idiot
    Full of sound and fury, signifying nothing
    (Macbeth)

    Shakespeare would have made more of a mockery of the Trumps than he did of the Tudors.

    Trump will be out of office at noon on January 20. Then let the prosecutions begin.

    As far as self-pardons go, there is a DOJ memo that states a President cannot be the judge and the jury of his own impeachment.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  68. It was tacky enough with Melania.

    Tacky is the perfect vibe for Melania!

    She had 4+ years to demonstrate some class, but couldn’t be bothered.

    Dave (1bb933)

  69. Reffitt is alleged to have told his minor daughter that if she used her phone to tell her friends that he was at the Capitol he would “put a bullet” through it.

    These are the type of people (we’re constantly told) that the GOP needs to pay more attention, and cater their message, to.

    Dave (1bb933)

  70. Heh! Whoever Trump’s lawyers turn out to be, they should thank Jack Dorsey for shutting Trump up.

    Parler will be running out of Russia in time for Trump to submarine his lawyers at trial.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  71. This is best explained by the idea that things need to be reciprocal, and Trump wants to be out of the US by noon on the 20th.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  72. Parler critics said it was a potential security risk for it to depend on a Russian company, as well as an odd choice for a site popular with self-described patriots.

    Well, when the “reputable” hosting companies colluded to blacklist them, they went somewhere with fewer connections to the oligopoly. Why does this surprise anyone? But the critics aren’t surprised, of course, and this is simply gaslighting.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  73. She had 4+ years to demonstrate some class, but couldn’t be bothered.

    So did lots of other people.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  74. These are the type of people (we’re constantly told) that the GOP needs to pay more attention, and cater their message, to.

    Keep on gaslighting. The 74 million people who voted for Trump are not all (as in hardly any are) violent scum.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  75. The 74 million people who voted for Trump are not all (as in hardly any are) violent scum.

    They just support a guy who openly expresses his love for violent scum while they’re in the process of sacking the capitol, trying to terrorize his political opponents and overturn a democratic election.

    Yeah, important distinction.

    Dave (1bb933)

  76. On noon on the 20th Trump is going to be on a plane to Florida with the football. Another football will be in Washington. Trump s not going to pardon himself. He’d do that preferably to going into exile.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  77. One more day. In about 30 hours, our long national nightmare will be over.

    Expect a flurry of pardons in a fury today. However, there is a DOJ policy, which I think originated in 1974, that state a President cannot pardon himself because one cannot be the judge and the defendant in a trial.

    The Pentagon has declined Trump’s request for a military send off at Joint Base Andrews.

    https://hotair.com/archives/karen-townsend/2021/01/18/request-denied-pentagon-says-will-no-military-parade-send-off-president-trump/

    There may be a crowd of cultists cheering him on, but he will leave office in disgrace. Humiliated, impeached, indicted and soon to be prosecuted. Once the Speaker submits the article of impeachment, the Senate will hold a trial the next day. Pelosi may decide to not submit the article; she may think that impeachment is enough. But if and when she does, the split Senate will hold a trial to prevent Trump from holding office ever again.

    The Manhattan DA and the New York AG have been investigating the Trump Organization for two years. Charges of bank, tax and wire fraud loom, as does illegal campaign contributions. The Atlanta DA is considering an investigation into political harassment and criminal threats for not participating in election fraud, disqualifying legitimate votes and manufacturing fake votes in an election that Trump clearly lost. It’s all so troubling.

    But it will all be over soon. Trump will be playing golf at Mar-a-Lago. His other hotels, resorts and golf courses are losing millions.

    He doesn’t get it. And neither does his cult. He owes hundreds of millions of personally guaranteed debt to foreign creditors. That does not fair well for him, because there’s no way out.

    At noon tomorrow, he will become a private citizen. Let the prosecutions begin. New York, New Jersey, now Georgia, possibly Virginia, DC, Florida, Illinois, and everywhere else Trump owns corrupt properties.

    He’s going down hard.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  78. I expect he will get the Government Issue Presidential Sendoff according to regulations.

    nk (1d9030)

  79. 80. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 1/19/2021 @ 4:55 am

    However, there is a DOJ policy, which I think originated in 1974, that state a President cannot pardon himself because one cannot be the judge and the defendant in a trial.

    That has exactly the same validity as the ruling, dating back to the same time, that a president cannot be prosecuted: None.

    The Pentagon has declined Trump’s request for a military send off at Joint Base Andrews.

    It’s merely reduced from what he wanted.

    https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/19/politics/trump-leaving-white-house-farewell-address/index.html

    Trump is scheduled to deliver remarks before his final departure from Joint Base Andrews on Wednesday, where a military-style ceremony is being planned.

    Joint Base Andrews used to be called Andrews Air Force Base. They changed the name sometime when nobody was looking. Bill O’Reilly used the old name on his radio show yesterday.

    Trump will land in Florida before noon, Eastern Standard Time.

    Trump has invited people for a sendoff and told them to be there for 7:15 am and to wear masks. (Joe Biden will sign an executive order after he is president, mandating masks on federal property, and on airplanes and other interstate carriers) His aides have been trying to round up a small crowd. Not everyone invited wants to attend. Anthony Scaramucci was one of the persons invited. He declined.

    The ceremony actually starts at 8 am. Each invitee can bring up to 5 people with them. Trump’s guests are also being reminded not to bring firearms, ammunition, explosives, laser pointers or toy guns, among other things.

    What time of the day did Nixon’s resignation take effect? His leaving the White House, I think, was what was televised.

    Trump was said to erupt in a fury when a comparison to Nixon was mentioned by his aides. His remaining aides have successfully managed to prevent him from delivering any live, off-the-cuff remarks.

    Trump hasn’t appeared in public for almost a week and every public statement has been taped. Trump was mostly disinterested in preparing a speech touting his accomplishments. At least if it wasn;t going to get televised. So there won’t be any kind of farewell address.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  80. Gawain’s Ghost (b25cd1) — 1/18/2021 @ 10:41 pm

    . The siege on January 6 was planned and organized, and the insurrectionists came equipped to commit violence, which they did (five dead, including two Capitol police officers), and apparently intended to take certain members of Congress hostage.

    The second Capitol police officer who died was someone who committed suicide on Saturday, January 9, 2021, so he really doesn;t count as a casualty, although he is mourned. Three of the prptesters who died died in medical incidents, one a strole while talking to his wife.

    There won’t be a majority leader for the Democrats either, since neither party have a majority, so there will only be leaders of the respective parties.

    The last time this happened, in 2001, membership on committees was split evenly, but the Chairman was a member of the Vice President’s party. Both party leaders could bring things oto the floor. Cheney only had an opportunity to vote five times – 3 times, when he would have voted no, he simply didn’t vote.

    The thing about tours is that public tours were not being given because of Covid. (So they needed a member of Congress?)

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  81. @45

    @39: I think that an attempted self-pardon is eminently justiciable. The question is “Does the pardon power in the Constitution extend to a self-pardon?” and ANY examination of the extensive debate in 1787 would indicate that they had utterly no intention that it should (and it was probably so bent that even Franklin and Gerry didn’t see it). Had they thought that might be the case they would not have argued for days about a traitorous President pardoning his co-conspirators.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/18/2021 @ 4:22 pm

    Except that the text of the Constitution already has a prohibition on this power: That it cannot be used on impeachment charges.

    The US Constitution is silent on the self-pardon. So, I would expect such a case *would* go up to SCOTUS for review, and if I had to make a wager, Justice Roberts would argue that it’s non-justicible as it’s a political power in the same vein as Congress’ impeachment powers.

    We’ll know in less than 24 hours. 😉

    whembly (c30c83)

  82. Reportedly, Trump is considering pardoning former (Democratic) New York State Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, but about former (Republican) Senate Majority Leader Dean Skelos. Two of the three men in the room. Silver is currently in prison.

    There are sime 50 to 100 people on Trump’s possible pardon list.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  83. So, I would expect such a case *would* go up to SCOTUS for review, and if I had to make a wager, Justice Roberts would argue that it’s non-justicible as it’s a political power in the same vein as Congress’ impeachment powers.

    Only if Trump is indicted (possibly only if he is convicted, I don’t know that interlocutory appeal is available for the defense of pardon). And of course it’s justiciable. The court will rule whether the indictment or conviction will stand.

    nk (1d9030)

  84. Two National Guard members removed from inauguration duty over militia ties: report
    Two members of the US National Guard have been relieved of their inauguration security duties after background checks revealed ties to far-right militia groups, a report said Tuesday.

    Officials from the US Army and the US intelligence community confirmed the precaution to the Associated Press, speaking on condition of anonymity.

    No organized plot has been found against incoming Democratic President Joe Biden, the report said.

    The two troopers were not identified by name, nor were the groups to which they are allegedly tied identified.

    The move comes two days after it was revealed that the FBI was conducting extra background checks on the approximately 25,000 National Guard troops deployed to secure the inauguration festivities.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  85. Yeah, important distinction.

    As I said, keep on gaslighting. Othering half the voters is a DANDY way to get the next election conducted with bullets.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  86. “Othering half the voters is a DANDY way to get the next election conducted with bullets.”

    https://i.imgur.com/CIzANwi.jpg

    Davethulhu (f31045)

  87. In about 30 hours, our long national nightmare will be over.

    Not out longest, and far from our worst.

    The longest was probably the Vietnam War.
    Next longest was the Great Depression.
    Then comes the Civil War. Also the worst.
    Then comes the Trump regime, ties with other execrable single-termers.
    Then comes Andrew Johnson, who didn’t quite serve a term.

    If you are African-American or Native American, there are other, much longer and more terrible contenders.

    Always good to keep perspective.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  88. https://i.imgur.com/CIzANwi.jpg

    Salt of the Earth. It must bother the F out of some people that these bourgeoisie scum are allowed to live in our fair land.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  89. The US Constitution is silent on the self-pardon. So, I would expect such a case *would* go up to SCOTUS for review, and if I had to make a wager, Justice Roberts would argue that it’s non-justicible as it’s a political power in the same vein as Congress’ impeachment powers.

    A Textualist would probably conclude that, but an Originalist would look to the Founder’s meaning and that is readily evident (as in only a moron could mistake their intentions) from the record of the Convention. And of course the three on the Left would see that their Living Constitution would never countenance such a claim by a Republican.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  90. @87: This administration STARTS with a fear of the People. I wonder where that fear will take them.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  91. It is truly appalling how many Ugly Winners are out and about lately.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  92. Apparently, the My Pillow brand will no longer grace the shelves of BB&B or Kohl’s.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  93. @87: This administration STARTS with a fear of the People.

    If the insurrectionists of January 6th represent the People, as opposed to conspiracy-minded anarchists, then American society is really in trouble.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  94. Kevin, I have family members I dearly love who still believe that there was massive fraud in the past election. Why is that, given that there is still no evidence that there was fraud that could have come anywhere near close to tipping the election? Well, probably because right wing media continues to beat the drum….primarily because the President continues to dabble in conspiracies and insist upon it…..and the highest principle at play is being loyal to the President. I am a big proponent of having stricter rules governing our elections….especially in the future where by-mail voting may be more prominent…..but this post-hoc-rationalization….is quite dangerous when you think about it….as is people wanting to disregard Court rulings in Pennsylvania. The 74M are certainly heading down a dangerous path. They need to get back to supporting our institutions and stop defending a demogogue. It’s over…do everything to support the peaceful transition…..which means, stop excusing the inexcusable….

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  95. McConnell, weighing impeachment vote, says mob that assaulted the Capitol was ‘provoked by the president.’
    Senator Mitch McConnell, the Republican leader, said on Tuesday that the insurrectionists who stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6 had been “provoked by the president and other powerful people,” stating publicly for the first time that he holds President Trump at least partly responsible for the assault.

    “The mob was fed lies,” Mr. McConnell said, referring to attempts by Mr. Trump to overturn the election based on bogus claims of voter fraud. “They were provoked by the president and other powerful people. And they tried to use fear and violence to stop a specific proceeding of the first branch of the federal government which they did not like.”
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  96. Joe Biden, in the last few weeks, has had a lot of time to work through the things he wants to do, and appointments, ecause nothing requires immediate attention, and he has accumulated actions (that really could be done n 2 1.2 days, that will take him through about 10 days, but then he’s not going to have so much time to contemplate things.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  97. Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 1/19/2021 @ 10:35 am

    “The mob was fed lies,” Mr. McConnell said, referring to attempts by Mr. Trump to overturn the election based on bogus claims of voter fraud.

    That is true, Actually a whole lot of people who weren’t in that mob were fed lies.

    “They were provoked by the president and other powerful people.

    Who des he mean by that term, “other powerful people.” There were people they respected, people on talk radio, ministers in churches.

    And they tried to use fear and violence to stop a specific proceeding of the first branch of the federal government which they did not like.”

    Close. That seems to be the most rational interpretation of what was the goal.

    There were about 8,000 people on the Capitol grounds, and about 1,000 who entered the building.

    It;s not clear what Trump knew. Did he agree to use the word “wild” back in December, at somebody else’s suggestion?

    In his speech he was sending them to a “Stop the Steal/Wild Protest” on the Capitol Lawn with a permit that had been obtained by Ali Alexander, that was somehow going to cause congress to do what they wanted, but in reality they were heading to something called “Operation Occupy the Capitol” that was going to interrupt business there and that didn’t have a permit.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  98. Man Charged with Threatening to Publicly Execute Democrats in Trump’s Name
    Federal prosecutors charged a New Yorker spouting white supremacist slogans with threatening to kill House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and many other politicians the day of the U.S. Capitol insurrection.

    “Trump, we want actual revenge on democrats,” Brendan Hunt, who called himself X-Ray Ultra, allegedly posted on his Facebook account “HuntBrendan.” “Meaning, we want you to hold a public execution of pelosi aoc schumer etc. And if you dont do it, the citizenry will. We’re not voting in another rigged election. Start up the firing squads, mow down these commies, and lets take america back!”
    ……
    Two days after the insurrection, Hunt allegedly posted an 88-second video on BitChute—a site popular with far-right extremists and conspiracy theorists—titled “KILL YOUR SENATORS” that included the summary “Slaughter them all.”

    “We need to go back to the U.S. Capitol when all of the Senators and a lot of the Representatives are back there, and this time we have to show up with our guns. And we need to slaghter these motherf**kers . . . [O]ur government at this point is basically a handful of traitors . . . so what you need to do is take up arms, get to D.C., probably the inauguration . . . so called inauguration of this motherf**king communist Joe Biden . . . [T]hat’s probably the best time to do this, get your guns, show up to D.C., and literally just spray these motherf**kers . . . like, that’s the only option . . . [T]hey’re gonna come after us, they’re gonna kill us, so we have to ki!l them first . . . [S]o get your guns, show up to D.C., put some bu!lets in their f**king heads. If anybody has a gun, give me it, I’ll go there myself and sh@@t them and ki!l them . . . [W]e have to take out these Senators and then replace them with actual patriots . . . [T]his is a ZOG government . . . [T]hat’s basically all I have to say, but take up arms against them.”

    …….
    One of the People.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  99. U.S. files conspiracy charge against Oath Keeper leader in alleged plot against the Capitol
    …….
    Thomas Edward Caldwell, 66, of Clarke County, Va., was taken into custody before 7 a.m. on four federal counts, including conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States in the attack on the Capitol. The conspiracy charge is reserved for offenses interfering with or obstructing the lawful operation of government.

    A charging affidavit says he helped organize a group of eight to 10 individuals, including self-styled Ohio militia members apprehended Sunday, who wore helmets and military-style gear and were seen moving purposefully toward the top of the Capitol steps and leading the move against police lines.
    ……
    The 15-page affidavit cited a Jan. 1 Facebook message in which Caldwell said he had scouted lodging for several others at a Comfort Inn in Ballston, Va., about eight miles from the Capitol that “would allow us to go hunting at night if we wanted to.”

    Caldwell sent the message, the affidavit said, to Jessica Watkins, a 38-year-old U.S. Army veteran who was arrested late Sunday. Federal authorities accused her of breaching the Capitol with other members of the “Ohio State Regular Militia,” a group she founded in 2019.
    …….
    At 7:47 p.m. on Jan. 6, Caldwell allegedly sent a Facebook video taken from within the U.S. Capitol, and wrote, “Us storming the castle. Please share. Sharon was right with me! I am such an instigator! She was ready for it man! Didn’t even mind the tear gas.”
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  100. 85. About Skelos nobody heard.

    About the dropping of the absolute bar to travel by people from certain countries this was said to be recommended by HHS, on the grounds that new rules, coming into effect on Jan. 26. that prohibited anyone who was 2 years old or over, even U.S. citizens, from boarding an airplane head if they hadn’t had aneggative coronavirus test within the past 3 days, was enough and so they could lift them except for citizens of Iran and China (because their governments weren’t being co-operative – in what way the news report I read didn’t say the Administration said)

    Biden’s press secretary, Jen Psaki, said that they wouldn’t lift the restrictions on Jan, 26 because now is not the time to ease up on any coronavirus restrictions.

    But they do intend to lift the restrictions Trump placed a few years earlier on people travelling to the U.S. using passports from certain countries.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  101. A charging affidavit says he helped organize a group of eight to 10 individuals, including self-styled Ohio militia members apprehended Sunday, who wore helmets and military-style gear and were seen moving purposefully toward the top of the Capitol steps and leading the move against police lines.

    They obviously weren’t incited by Trump’s speech that day.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  102. They are obviously going to have to be wary of anyone who talks about emulating the American Revolution.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  103. You know, Jefferson Davis was not responsible for the assassination of Abraham Lincoln, although the Civil War, ad attacks on Abraham Lincoln as being a tyrant, provided some of the motivation for John Wilkes Booth (he also wanted to be the hero in a reality play)

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  104. It’s over…do everything to support the peaceful transition…..which means, stop excusing the inexcusable….

    But we have to understand what is going on. Not trying to understand why people hold these seemingly crazy notions quickly leads to the “othering” that we see here and elsewhere.

    74 million people voted for a man unsuited to sweep the floor of the Oval Office. It simply cannot be ignored. What possessed them to nominate him in the first place? Their reasons, and even the reasons behind those whose pointy end was the Capitol mob, are important to understand. People do not contemplate doing these things without deep and long-lasting grievances.

    Trump will disappear, but these voters will not. If we are to bring them back into the fold, marginalizing them further is not the way, and treating all Trump’s voters as “deplorables” as Dave does is a sure way to a bigger fire next time.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  105. @106: But a “Jefferson Davis” who constantly suggested that “someone ought to go kill this dictator” might well hold some responsibility.

    The classic case is of course Henry II’s alleged lament about Thomas Becket “Will no one rid me of this turbulent priest?”.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  106. “Never let a crisis go to waste” –Rahm Emanuel

    What I fear (and what I am seeing) is a federal government intent on using the Capitol riot to create a moral panic. I don’t particularly care if they round up the bad actors (assuming they ARE bad actors), but I see it extending to expanded powers of domestic surveillance and possibly encroachment on speech, assembly and further limitations on the possession of arms.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  107. They obviously weren’t incited by Trump’s speech that day.

    They believed themselves to be doing Trump’s bidding, so perhaps it was Trump’s speeches on preceding days. None of this would have happened if Trump had accepted the election results with the honesty and patriotism of 1960’s Richard Nixon.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  108. 107. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/19/2021 @ 11:31 am

    What possessed them to nominate him in the first place?

    None of his Republican opponents were both able and willing to argue with him on the intrinsic merits of his proposals, but neither did they endorse them (Trump made sure of that by being a little bit more extreme and ridiculous) so, if you couldn’t determine the merits for yourself, Trump looked both more capable and honest than the others, and less of a person who would flip flop in the general election or later or make bad compromises.

    And then Ted Cruz became his chief opponent.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  109. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/19/2021 @ 11:45 am

    They believed themselves to be doing Trump’s bidding, so perhaps it was Trump’s speeches on preceding days.

    The instigators did exegesis on them.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/proud-boys-seizing-trumps-call-to-washington-helped-lead-capitol-attack-11610911596

    The Wall Street Journal reviewed thousands of posts from the Proud Boys and their members across Parler, Telegram and Gab, the social-media platforms where they rallied supporters online after mostly being banned from Facebook and Twitter. The messages show the group repeatedly invoking President Trump’s rhetoric in the weeks leading to the Jan. 6 protest as they built momentum toward what became a violent showdown….

    ….In December, after Mr. Trump tweeted about the Jan. 6 rally and said to “be there, will be wild,” the Long Island chapter of the Proud Boys posted that Trump supporters have been “waiting for the green light from the President.”

    “Everyone who said ‘Mr. President, just say when?’ He just did,” the post said.

    Kind of like the way al Qaeda and others used the words of Mohammed.

    It wasn’t the natural interpretation, so nobody saw it coming as a result of a few tweets.

    Offices simply were invaded
    Private files, they were raided
    Was this not all anticipated?
    With simple tweets,
    They were oersuaded?

    – Part of a poem by “Chaim Bashevkin.”

    None of this would have happened if Trump had accepted the election results with the honesty and patriotism of 1960’s Richard Nixon.

    Nixon had patriotism but not honesty. He may have felt there could only be futility in challenging the results, as no recounts were possible in Texas. Al Gore did not have that kind of patriotism, but he recognized when all legal means to alter the result were over.

    Trump not only did not accept the election results, he told numerous lies about the election, more than had ever been done by a politician in the United States before; and he kept trying to persuade the people who certified results, and state legislators, and ultimately, members of Congress and the Vice President of the United States to do what they were not entitled to do and had no legitimate reason to do; and, when the Capitol was stormed, he didn’t do anything about it. He apparently didn’t make a single phone call to get more information on what was happening, to ask what he should do, or to commiserate with anyone.

    But instigate or conspire in the assault? That requires some proof of conspiracy we do not have, but which maybe we can get if that is the case.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  110. Breaking: Trump has released a video of Farewell address. So he did one as his aides had been urging him to do.

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)

  111. all the URLs created at whitehouse.gov since January 20, 2017 are going to become invalid tomorrow (although if this is like the Obama pages ones they will be accessible under a somewhat different URL, as well as in the WayBack machine – but oogle won’t find them for you)

    his is the time to archive them

    Like this one:

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

    Sammy Finkelman (dcc9ca)


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