Patterico's Pontifications

1/8/2021

Republican Lawmakers Wringing Their Hands: Gee, Maybe We Should Have Stood Up To Trump

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:17 am



[guest post by Dana]

Save it, you simpering fools who have become little more than oozing pustules on the ass of American politics. Your belated pangs of conscience mean absolutely nothing to me:

Republican senators say they feel a sense of growing regret over not standing up to President Trump sooner — a day after a violent mob ransacked the Capitol building in one of the darkest and most humiliating days in U.S. history.

One Republican senator who requested anonymity to discuss his conversations with GOP colleagues acknowledged GOP lawmakers should have served as a stronger check on the president over the past four years.

“We should have done more to push back, both against his rhetoric and some of the things he did legislatively,” said the lawmaker. “The mistake we made is that we always thought he was going to get better. We thought that once he got the nomination and then once he got a Cabinet, he was going to get better, he was going to be more presidential.”

Many Republicans are shell-shocked over the horrific scenes at the Capitol and seem to be trying to come to grips with their role in the disaster.

The GOP senator said he and his colleagues expected Trump would eventually accept the results of the election after courts ruled against his legal team’s challenges, which were resoundingly dismissed by Republican- and Democratic-appointed judges alike.

But Trump never did, and most Republicans — including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) — held back any sharp criticism.

This was largely because Republicans calculated they needed Trump to get out the vote in two runoff races to decide the Senate majority in Georgia.

How deluded were they if they believed that Trump would get better or become more presidential? Especially four years into the job. Why were they unable to see what I was able to see and what you were able to see, even as far back as his first campaign? Did they really believe he would “grow into the job” and thus America would be the better for his presidency? Well, maybe at first. But four years into it? No, of course not. I believe that the vast majority of the Republicans in Congress made a calculated decision to support the man with his hands on the levers of power rather than holding him accountable when they knew it was the right thing to do because by doing so, their self-interests and political futures were secured. That they chose not to hold Trump accountable, especially post-election, is inexcusable. He has always been the deluded, self-consumed narcissist we see today. But they chose to look the other way. Of course, they had more on the line and more risk involved in calling him out than did I, but that’s the job they signed up for. And they swore an allegiance to support and defend the Constitution, not the man who would be king.

What’s ironic too, is that these same Republicans are just now wringing their hands about the damage done to the Republican Party, both today and in the long-term:

But now there’s a sense among a growing number of GOP lawmakers that Trump may have inflicted long-term damage on their party, an anxiety heightened by the debacle of a pro-Trump mob storming and occupying the U.S. Capitol building Wednesday as Congress was meeting to finalize Biden’s election as the nation’s 46th president.

“There’s more concern about the long-term damage to the party than losing two Senate seats in Georgia,” the GOP senator said.

A second Republican senator who requested anonymity said Trump had inflicted serious damage on his party.

“Every time you think the president has done everything he could possibly do to fuck things up, then he comes out with a tweet, like the election was invalid and the one in Georgia would be invalid,” said the lawmaker, referring to Trump’s tweets Friday declaring the runoff elections to be “illegal and invalid.”

The feelings of remorse are only now being expressed privately after Republican senators spent much of the past four years dodging questions about Trump’s controversial tweets, statements and decisions.

America has seen the truth of this statement hit just a bit too close to home this week: all tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent. I’m sure there will be lots of naval-gazing done by those who were in a position to hold Trump accountable and call him out for his reprehensible and un-American behavior. But as they consider their own complicity during his tenure, it is incumbent on Americans to remember the names of the eight Republican senators and 139 representatives who continued to look the other way, even after an insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

–Dana

150 Responses to “Republican Lawmakers Wringing Their Hands: Gee, Maybe We Should Have Stood Up To Trump”

  1. This is so annoying.

    Dana (cc9481)

  2. Better foresight than hindsight……sigh. I mean the signs were so glaringly obvious, yet. Trump is only quiet now, as the congressional GOP finally found their cajones, and POTUS is obviously trying to stave off impeachment/removal. I’m not sure if I’ll forgive and move on from this a couple years from now in the 2022 midterms. As for Amash, I’m not a fan of the LP, given the candidates they’ve nominated in the past, and their tendency to be more Libertineish than anything(at least for my tastes). I’m not as libertarian as Amash is, but his kind of libertarianism is far more palatable to me than Johnson/Weld, Jorgenson(far too woke for me), and some of the other candidates they’ve fielded in the past. Had Amash managed to get the LP nomination, I would’ve voted for him. I think there could be a fusion between Amashesque libertarians and traditional classical liberals, as there is enough common ground between them.

    HCI (92ea66)

  3. I bet many Senators are kicking themselves for not having convicted Trump after his impeachment, privately. Granted it would’ve pissed off the Trump base. But most voters have short term memories, and the duopoly party tribalism is still strong enough where most voters favorably inclined to Trump(excluding the fringe extremists) would’ve sucked it up and voted for Pence, or whoever else the GOP nominated for 2020. The thought of Kamala Harris as VP would’ve probably been enough for a lot of Trump supporters to swallow their pride and vote for a non-Trump GOP candidate. Just my two cents.

    HCI (92ea66)

  4. Dana… maybe I’m being too cynical, but to me it’s just kabuki theater.

    Knees are bent towards whomever is in power. Once Trump is out of office, he’ll be relegated (hopefully) to the minority wing of the party.

    Political allegiance (if you will) is only transactions for most of these politicians.

    Amash (and maybe Sasse) are probably the only politicians I can think of who remained more principled than the rest, and they should be applauded.

    whembly (c30c83)

  5. I’m not sure if I’ll forgive and move on from this a couple years from now in the 2022 midterms

    For as long as the same drivers are in charge of the GOP clown car, I don’t know how anyone could do so in good faith. Cruz, Hawley, Graham, even Rubio . . . they’ve all shown us who they are, that’s spineless weasels who can’t be trusted with power.

    (Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a)

  6. HCI,

    I am not affiliated with any party, however, I think Amash’s basic idea and the proposed path out of a two-party controlled system could be a good one. How reasonable and practical it is, is another question entirely.

    Dana (cc9481)

  7. They don’t regret it at all. They see the winds are blowing and they’re distancing themselves now because they feel it’s politically prudent to do so with the door closing on Trump’s presidency and in the immediate light of what happened.

    As the days turn to months and the event recedes into memory, these same people will gladly change their tune if they come to believe that the nutjobs who stormed the Capitol have enough backing to keep them in power. Just wait until Democrats don’t let them forget what happened and their support of Trump. These pustules as you so rightly name them will say something like, “Those patriots were just trying to make sure their voices are heard, which is why they didn’t ultimately resort to violence even though they could have. And maybe they have a point when you see the Democrats won’t reach across the aisle and listen to what we have to say.”

    JohnnyAgreeable (c49787)

  8. McConnell should join with Schumer to expel Cruz and Hawley. Texas and Missouri have Republican governors, and if he gives them a heads up, he can have the weasels’ replacements sworn in the next day.

    nk (1d9030)

  9. Republican Lawmakers Wringing Their Hands: Gee, Maybe We Should Have Stood Up To Trump

    What was Cher’s famous line from ‘Moonstruck’…. “Snap out of it!”

    Get the damn Covid vaccine out, get $2000 into the pockets of hurting, locked down Americans who can’t get to their jobs because of the pandemic and cease worrying about themselves.

    Until they do this, this they’re little more than a classic period sitcom:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVwFADi4Y38

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  10. Whembly,

    Mitt Romney has been consistent in his views, to the point of voting to convict Trump during the impeachment trial.

    I was glad to see both Rep. Peter Meijer call out Republican leadership, and Rep. Adam Kinzinger call for the 25th amendment to be invoked and call out Trump as well. Kinzinger also publicly stated that he regretted voting for Trump.

    Dana (cc9481)

  11. The insurrectionists are the modern Republican Party.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  12. When rats flee a sinking ship it’s not because they’ve suddenly realized the ship was immoral.

    Time123 (235fc4)

  13. I saw that today but don’t recall where

    Time123 (235fc4)

  14. @10: Good points Dana.

    Now here’s my question to you, to those politician *NOW* voicing regrets… are they permanently done with politics, or is there any forgiveness?

    I’m not sure I’d forgive Hawley or Cruz as I don’t believe they’re truly contrite. But, for the sake of the GOP party, is there any chance to move on?

    My hope is that the Trump era becomes that “boogey man” that one would invoke in the future to prevent a repeat.

    Thoughts?

    whembly (c30c83)

  15. The fact that named Republican Senators or House members (influential members or committee chairmen, not outliers) are not calling for impeachment, removal, or resignation shows that they are still in thrall of Trump’s insurrectionists.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  16. I highlighted some of the key bits of this. Even now, they’re taking the cowards way out.
    If you feel this way, and are supposed to be a leader, sing it loud sing it proud, whispering behind their backs in the coat closet shows that they don’t deserve to be there, period.

    One Republican senator who requested anonymity to discuss his conversations with GOP colleagues acknowledged GOP lawmakers should have served as a stronger check on the president over the past four years.

    “We should have done more to push back, both against his rhetoric and some of the things he did legislatively,” said the lawmaker. “The mistake we made is that we always thought he was going to get better. We thought that once he got the nomination and then once he got a Cabinet, he was going to get better, he was going to be more presidential.”

    Many Republicans are shell-shocked over the horrific scenes at the Capitol and seem to be trying to come to grips with their role in the disaster.

    This also shows that they were fine with the sweet sweet MAGA donations, because Trump hasn’t changed on iota since he rolled down the escalator; it was always going to end this way, because it was this way day zero, and now that we’re hitting day 2,034. In fact, he has gotten steadily worse over time. These turds had the opportunity to pull the ripcord a year ago and were spineless then, so expecting them to grow a spine now is kind of funny.

    Watching Lindsey Graham the other day was hilarious, he chose now to go to only one knee, and deliver a decent speech, after the last 4 years, loser. I’d rather have these folks replaced with a dozen AOC’s. She’s an idiot, but she is up front about it, that takes more guts and honesty than these people have. You will never be able to trust them, they’ve shown their true colors, and that is of the wannabe-kings court.

    Let the Trump party go, them and all of their fellow travelers belong in the Trump party, it’s time for it to stand up be heard, wear the brand proudly.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  17. Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick: Remember his name!

    Thursday evening, Capitol Police officer Brian D. Sicknick died from injuries. [ed. Dustin reported it right.] He joined the force in July 2008 and was part of the department’s First Responders Unit, officials said.

    Sicknick deployed to Saudi Arabia in 1999 in support of Operation Southern Watch. After 9/11 he served in Kyrgyzstan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom, the Iraq war. And he was honorably discharged in 2003, according to Lt. Col. Barbara Brown, a spokeswoman for the New Jersey National Guard.

    nk (1d9030)

  18. @ whembly,

    Now here’s my question to you, to those politician *NOW* voicing regrets… are they permanently done with politics, or is there any forgiveness?

    Feeling cynical these days, I would suggest that they are coming forward now, not necessarily because they have truly seen the error of their way and the destruction they have participated in, but rather it’s rats fleeing a sinking ship and a further move toward self-preservation. As for forgiveness, I’m disinclined toward it on the grounds that there isn’t true remorse, just self-interest.

    Dana (cc9481)

  19. Tarnished by Trump: National security officials struggle to find new jobs
    …….
    Across the administration, national security officials have been struggling to find new employment, and conversations with seven former and current officials reveal that they have been tainted by their time working for Trump.
    …..
    …..Many are tied to controversial Trump policies and scandals, be it child separation at the border or the politicization of the military on display when top Pentagon leaders stood with Trump for a photo op after authorities forcefully cleared Lafayette Square of protesters.

    In some cases, the resistance that officials are meeting from would-be employers is extreme. One senior defense official, who has been looking for a new job for two years without luck, recalled a conversation in which they were told that they were considered part of the “Hitler Youth.”
    ……
    During her own job search this summer, (Olivia Troye, a former Homeland Security and White House official who left in August) was told directly by one potential employer that they could not offer her a job because she was a “liability.”

    “I can’t tell you how hurtful it was to hear that,” said Troye, noting that the incident was a reality check.
    ……
    Elizabeth Neumann, another former civil servant and Homeland Security official who worked on counterterrorism, said she did not directly face challenges in finding a new job after she resigned in April. But that was primarily because she immediately spoke out against Trump’s policies.

    Still, she recounted several instances during her job hunt in which she heard through her network that certain companies would never consider hiring her because she worked in the Trump administration.
    ……
    …..[M]any Trump appointees who are now struggling to find jobs — everyone from junior staffers to Cabinet secretaries — are facing questions for not leaving sooner. Many of these officials are the same people who privately bemoaned Trump’s instability, but were “all too willing to enable it,” said another former senior official.

    “They are finding that staying silent had a cost: to their consciences and to their careers,” the person said. “People knew Trump would be toxic, yet they hedged anyway in hopes that they might get four more years of job stability.”
    ……
    Whaaaa!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  20. “People knew Trump would be toxic, yet they hedged anyway in hopes that they might get four more years of job stability.”

    Thanks, Rip. I believe that fully answers whembly’s discussion with Dana.

    nk (1d9030)

  21. If they are sorry, they can prove it. There are all kinds of interviews they could be doing on all kinds of media where they would certainly have the opportunity to go out and say that the election was legitimate, Biden won, and yesterday’s insurrectionists were not Antifa and WERE Trump supporters. We should be hearing an apology tour from every TV and every radio station in the country. They should support an investigation into what happened yesterday, and they should vote yes on impeachment and removal. Anonymous words to a reporter are one thing, public action would show actual regret.

    Nic (896fdf)

  22. Illinois GOP Rep. Mary Miller apologizes for her remarks praising Hitler at pro-Trump rally
    Freshman Rep. Mary Miller, R-Ill., apologized on Friday after gaining national attention for praising Hitler during a pro-Trump rally, sparking calls from Illinois colleagues in Congress to resign and condemnation from others.

    In a statement, Miller said, “Earlier this week, I spoke to a group of mothers about the importance of faith and guarding our youth from destructive influences. I sincerely apologize for any harm my words caused and regret using a reference to one of the most evil dictators in history to illustrate the dangers that outside influences can have on our youth.

    “This dark history should never be repeated and parents should be proactive to instill what is good, true, right, and noble into their children’s hearts and minds. While some are trying to intentionally twist my words to mean something antithetical to my beliefs, let me be clear: I’m passionately pro-Israel and I will always be a strong advocate and ally of the Jewish community. I’ve been in discussion with Jewish leaders across the country and am grateful to them for their kindness and forthrightness.”
    ……

    At the rally, Miller said, “Each generation has the responsibility to teach the next generation. You know, if we win a few elections we’re still going to be losing unless we win the hearts of our children. It’s the battle. Hitler was right on one thing— that whoever has the youth has the future. Our children are being propagandized.”

    In a statement, the Holocaust museum said it “unequivocally condemns any leader trying to advance a position by claiming Adolf Hitler was ‘right.’ Adolf Hitler’s Germany plunged Europe into the most destructive event in human history, World War II and the Holocaust resulting in the genocide of six million European Jews.”

    Duckworth said Thursday in a statement ….. “To say that the perpetrator of the greatest genocide in world history should be a model for any type of behavior, much less the indoctrination of children with hatred, racism and fascist ideals, is disqualifying for an American elected official. I cannot condemn in harsher terms Mary Miller’s despicable comments in the run-up to yesterday’s coup attempt, and I call on her to resign immediately so that someone who better understands the sacrifices our brave service members made during World War II can more effectively represent our state.”
    …….
    Why should she apologize? it fits right in with the Trump Republican Party and its Qanon Caucus.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  23. Now here’s my question to you, to those politician *NOW* voicing regrets… are they permanently done with politics, or is there any forgiveness?

    One must be contrite to earn forgiveness.

    (Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a)

  24. Donald J. Trump
    @realDonaldTrump
    The 75,000,000 great American Patriots who voted for me, AMERICA FIRST, and MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, will have a GIANT VOICE long into the future. They will not be disrespected or treated unfairly in any way, shape or form!!!
    8:46 AM · Jan 8, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
    https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1347555316863553542

    Slimy sewer rat keeps on gnawing.

    nk (1d9030)

  25. Pierre Delecto is a coward in word and deed.

    You can’t lead from behind- nor from behind a nom-de-twitter-plume.

    No Yeltsin he.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  26. Major Josh Hawley donor calls for him to be censured by the U.S. Senate

    A Joplin businessman who helped bankroll Sen. Josh Hawley’s first campaign denounced him on Thursday as a “political opportunist” who used “irresponsible, inflammatory, and dangerous tactics” to incite the rioting that took over the U.S. Capitol Building.

    In a statement late Thursday, David Humphreys, president and CEO of Tamko Building Products, added his voice to a growing chorus of Republicans angry at Hawley for leading a challenge to the certification of President-elect Joe Biden’s victory.

    Humphreys called on the U.S. Senate to censure Hawley “for provoking yesterday’s riots in our nation’s capital.”
    …..
    Along with his sister, Sarah Atkins, and his mother, Ethelmae Humphreys, his family provided $4.4 million of the $9.2 million Hawley raised for his 2016 campaign for attorney general.

    David Humphreys personally donated $2.875 million.

    In 2018, when Hawley used his office as a springboard for a Senate bid, the Humphreys provided an estimated $2 million to independent groups supporting Hawley.
    …..
    Humphreys’ full statement, as provided to The Independent:

    “In October 2016 I publicly voiced my opposition to Donald Trump in the NY Times saying ‘At some point, you have to look in the mirror and recognize that you cannot possibly justify support for Trump to your children…’

    “I need to say the same about Missouri’s U.S. Sen. Josh Hawley, who has shown his true colors as an anti-democracy populist by supporting Trump’s false claim of a ‘stolen election.’ Hawley’s irresponsible, inflammatory, and dangerous tactics have incited violence and further discord across America. And he has now revealed himself as a political opportunist willing to subvert the Constitution and the ideals of the nation he swore to uphold.

    “Hawley should be censured by his Senate colleagues for his actions which have undermined a peaceful transition of power and for provoking yesterday’s riots in our nation’s capital. We owe it to our children and grandchildren to protect our country and its Constitutional underpinnings.”

    …….
    Money talks.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  27. “One focused on persuading” It would be nice if both parties saw their mission as persuading a majority of the people that their agendas would lead to better outcomes.

    Right now the Republican party is pretty well committed to making voting harder, not easier, less available, not more available, and to rules (Electoral College, filibuster, gerrymandering) that ensure power to lead the government rests with a minority.

    So long as they remain ideologically opposed to democracy, it’s going to do much to unite the nation.

    Victor (4959fb)

  28. Sigh. The last line should have read “it’s not going to much…”

    Victor (4959fb)

  29. In a little over two years, a freshman Senator from Utah became Giant of the Senate, and only he and Amash come out of this clean (along with those Republicans who were primaried for daring to criticize Trump). We knew what he was during impeachment, yet every Republican but one voted with him.
    None of the other elected Republicans deserve the time of day, although Kinzinger may be first out of the Montagu doghouse.
    I have little patience for their excuse-making, especially the fascist wing who announced they would object to slates of Electors and who signed onto AG Paxton’s suit. There’s nothing they can say to me except apologize for the rest of their terms.
    Trump made his character known when he was a candidate. Anyone who says they didn’t really know who he was is either lying or delusional. There was no excuse for nominating him as standard bearer of my party.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  30. Giant of the Senate

    Pierre Delecto. Coward. Loser. Cultist. =mikedrop=

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  31. Doing your own mike drop in a comment thread, DCSCA, is like you hitting the upvote button after you’ve clicked “Submit”.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  32. OT- Well, leave it to the plagiarist-elect to stumble-bum through another presser and drop a potatomasher down his shorts prattling on about ’25, 250, 2,500 25,000 or 250,000′ bombed in Dresden.

    He might just be a comedy hit after all.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  33. https://reason.com/2021/01/08/did-trump-commit-a-crime-when-he-riled-up-his-supporters-before-they-rioted/

    Author rightly condemns Trump’s rhetoric… but, also succinctly states why it wasn’t incitement under federal laws.

    whembly (c30c83)

  34. Miller was free to speak because her district’s on the chopping block anyhow b/c of Illinois exodus and a Dem legislature supermajority. Kinzinger is either running for gov (open primaries in IL enable a lot of Dems to cross in and prop up RINOs, as with Dillard in 14 and Rauner in 18) or leaving after the remap himself.

    urbanleftbehind (cdbfba)

  35. @29/@31. “There was no excuse for nominating him as standard bearer of my party.”

    Except there was. He won it. And went on to win.

    You’ve been Buckley’d out and still don’t realize you no longer are perched in the tail to wag the dog;it’s not “your party” anymore. 74-plus million have told you so. You can stay and adapt to the change a la Rockefeller Republicans circa 1964 [and as Rommey’s daddy did] or join Kristol, Will, Goldberg, French, Charen et al, and brave the desert Wilderness for the next thirty years. But learn sandscript. :-)

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  36. 33. Intent is a question for the jury. The case against Trump will pass a motion for a directed verdict. The law obliges the judge to view the evidence in the light most favorable to the prosecution, and an inference is permitted to be drawn that Trump intended the behavior his words caused.

    nk (1d9030)

  37. https://reason.com/2021/01/08/did-trump-commit-a-crime-when-he-riled-up-his-supporters-before-they-rioted/

    Author rightly condemns Trump’s rhetoric… but, also succinctly states why it wasn’t incitement under federal laws.

    whembly (c30c83) — 1/8/2021 @ 12:33 pm

    I’m 80% that it was protected speech. I would support an investigation to try and learn if Trump knew that people had attended planning violence, if Trump took or directed actions that would make it harder to contain violence, if people who worked for him took or prevented action that would make it harder to contain violence because they reasonably believed they were following his direction, or if Trump made comments before or after that indicated he expected or was pleased by the violence that happened. If it’s all close, I think he shouldn’t be convicted.

    I would place a lower burden of proof on impeachment then for criminal conviction.

    Time123 (235fc4)

  38. Trump made his character known when he was a candidate. Anyone who says they didn’t really know who he was is either lying or delusional.

    I’ve always been baffled by the insistence that Trump is really a much better person than the one he regularly presents to the public. No one else is given that very generous benefit of the doubt, because no one actually knows anyone like that. The argument that he displayed good character by following a short list of policy ideas (when it suited him) falls far short of making the case.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  39. Video clearly shows Rep. Mike Nearman helping right-wing demonstrators breach Oregon Capitol
    Security video obtained by The Oregonian/OregonLive under a public records request clearly shows Rep. Mike Nearman, (Republican-Sedition) from Independence, open two doors to the Capitol during a Dec. 21 special legislative session, allowing violent demonstrators who were protesting immediately outside the door to illegally enter the building.
    …….
    The demonstrators, many of whom were unmasked and some of whom carried rifles, objected to the state’s coronavirus restrictions and sought to disrupt the session underway. State troopers and Salem police ultimately prevented them from entering the building’s rotunda or reaching the House or Senate chambers, but not before some of the rioters allegedly sprayed six troopers with a chemical substance that was reportedly pepper spray. The video shows spray being deployed.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  40. I would place a lower burden of proof on impeachment then for criminal conviction.

    I’ve always felt that the claim that impeachment requires proof of crime sufficient to win a criminal conviction was inconsistent with the original intent of the impeachment clause – that it was a safeguard against abuse of power by an Executive, even if that abuse was not a crime.

    If it is reasonably clear that Trump was deliberately encouraging a crowd of angry people to march on the Capitol and stop proceedings, than for the sake of the Republic, that’s all that should be needed for an impeachment. (Let alone whatever further evidence there might be of attempts to deliberately delay law enforcement response).

    Victor (4959fb)

  41. the claim that impeachment requires proof of crime sufficient to win a criminal conviction

    Only in the mind those being impeached is that true.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  42. Frankly, I don’t have a lot of interest in fighting a war after its won.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  43. House Democrats move rapidly toward impeaching Trump a second time

    …..
    …..[T]op Democrats were more forthright about proceeding quickly with impeachment, and some lawmakers said Friday that an impeachment vote could come together as soon as Monday or Tuesday if the decision is made to move forward.

    “Donald Trump should be impeached, convicted and removed from office immediately,” Rep. Hakeem Jeffries (N.Y.), chairman of the House Democratic Caucus, said in a tweet Thursday.

    House Majority Whip James E. Clyburn (D-S.C.) said in an MSNBC interview after the conference call Friday that “the sentiment of the caucus is moving toward impeachment: “The American people have seen enough, and they are ready for us to do the job of impeaching this man.”

    In a signal of the deep support for further action, more than 60 House Democrats signed a letter late Thursday asking top Democratic leaders to reconvene the House as soon as possible to “show the American people that Congress is continuing to meet its responsibilities in the face of extraordinary threats” and take action, including a possible impeachment.
    …..
    Two draft articles of impeachment have been circulated among House Democrats that cite Trump’s incitement of the mob and his delayed decision to encourage it to disperse as high crimes and misdemeanors necessitating removal.

    One four-page draft that had 131 co-sponsors as of noon Friday impeaches Trump on the grounds of “Incitement of Insurrection” and accuses him of having “gravely endangered the security of the United States and its institutions of government.”

    “He threatened the integrity of the democratic system, interfered with the peaceful transition of power, and imperiled a coordinate branch of government,” it reads. “He thereby betrayed his trust as President, to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.”

    Rep. Jamie B. Raskin (D-Md.), an author of that draft, said it was “unthinkable” that Congress would treat Wednesday’s events as just “one more unfortunate faux pas by the president.”

    “We just suffered the most massive, violent invasion of the U.S. Capitol in American history since the War of 1812,” he said. “He has counseled and invited an attack on the Congress of the United States itself.”

    No Republican House members have indicated that they would back impeachment.
    …….
    The House could have other options to take action in the coming days. Raskin has written a bill to create a commission on presidential disabilities to prepare for action under the 25th Amendment, and other House Democrats have called for censure of GOP lawmakers for inciting violence.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  44. A better plan: accept those that turn their back on Trump today, and put them on probation. Don’t force them back into Trump’s camp, but accept their support going forward.

    We, on the outside of the organization, may be comfortably aloof from party politics and party structure, but those on the inside are not. Let them atone without too many “we told you so’s.” For us it was simple, for them it was complicated.

    “With malice toward none, with charity for all”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  45. I said some time ago, that for the party to be divorced from Trump, Trump had to be thoroughly discredited so that his posse would go back to their lairs. As long as Trump could maintain a following the party would never be free.

    If I were cynically-minded, I’d say that the police weakness was a successful gambit.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  46. ‘Coward’: MAGA internet turns on Trump
    ……
    All it took was for the president to acknowledge the reality of his loss a little over a day after they, the MAGA faithful, stormed the Capitol in a violent attempt to stop the certification of President-elect Joe Biden’s win.

    “People were willing to die for this man and he just threw them all under the bus. That’s the only thing that’s shameful about the events of the past 36 hours,” Nick Fuentes, the host of the America First podcast and the unofficial leader of the white nationalist Groyper Army, angrily tweeted, shortly after Trump released a video Thursday night in which he conceded that Biden would be the next president and called for political reconciliation.

    Cassandra Fairbanks, a prominent MAGA activist, tweeted: “[He] tells angry people to march to the capitol [and then] proceeds to throw his supporters under the bus.”

    Jacob Wohl, the political dirty trickster known for failed plots to incriminate Trump critics, reposted her Tweet on his Parler page.

    And when far-right stunt journalist and failed congressional candidate Laura Loomer posted Trump’s concession video on Parler — “It’s over,” Loomer bemoaned, “Life is about to become very hard for conservatives in America” — the people in her replies were aghast that she acknowledged Trump’s own words. “He DID NOT CONCEDE! ITS HIS NEW ADMINISTRATION that will be coming in,” one respondent wrote, a sentiment repeated ad nauseam down her feed.
    …….
    QAnon conspiracy theorists, praying for years that Trump would flush Satan-worshipping pedophile elites out of Washington, tore apart any scrap of data from the video to prove that he was playing one final trick. They subjected the time stamps to numerology, thinking that there was a secret message encoded.

    “In no way did Trump say he conceded. He said: transitioning to a new Admin. As in, he gonna clear this one out and bring a new one,” tweeted We The Inevitable, a conspiracy account, getting more than 3,000 retweets within the hour. The account’s followers agreed that this was surely a sign that he was getting rid of Vice President Mike Pence — now cast as a MAGA traitor after participating in the certification of Biden’s win — and that on Jan. 20, retired Gen. Michael Flynn, now a full-fledged QAnon patriot, would replace him in Trump’s second term.

    ……Over on Parler, the social media platform beloved by the MAGA community for its lax moderation policies, users erupted in a fury, calling him a number of expletives, a “dildo,” and “100% THE SWAMP.”
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  47. I’m not sure if I’ll forgive and move on from this a couple years from now in the 2022 midterms

    Yes, our new allies need to be punished some more, they are not bowing deep enough!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  48. The plagiarist-elect says he wants to “bring us together” [stolen from The Big Dick, circa 1968 BTW] then when informed Trump tweeted he won’t attend the inaugural, says great- don’t want him there.

    What, Joe, no HS gymnasium to take him behind? No, Joe. You want him there smooth transition of power,etc. That’s not how you demonstrate “bringing people together,” Joe.

    And you’ve just guaranteed split screen TeeVee w/cameras following him out of town while you get sworn in.

    IDIOT.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  49. Feeling cynical these days, I would suggest that they are coming forward now, not necessarily because they have truly seen the error of their way and the destruction they have participated in, but rather it’s rats fleeing a sinking ship and a further move toward self-preservation. As for forgiveness, I’m disinclined toward it on the grounds that there isn’t true remorse, just self-interest.

    1) There are, at any time, perhaps 5 principled members of Congress. The rest are politicians.
    2) People who kept their heads down during the Trumpbot reign of terror were being prudent.
    3) Romney was forthright, but then Romney had the immunity of age and accomplishment.
    4) Amash and Paul Mitchell left the GOP. They also left Congress as the first act would have force the second.
    5) As for fleeing a sinking ship, good God, the ship just now STOPPED sinking. See #4 for fleeing sinking ships. More like they came out of the storm cellar.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  50. Why does anyone think that the #Trump-is-a-traitor narrative has such full-throated agreement? This is like seeing Robespierre to to the guillotine or hearing that Stalin has died. All of the folks who were held hostage by Trump are glad to be freed. Rand Paul and Leslie Graham agree on this!

    The sun is out and there are rainbows. Stop with recriminations.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  51. I’m not sure I’d forgive Hawley or Cruz as I don’t believe they’re truly contrite.

    You do have to hang the ringleaders, of course.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  52. I’ve always been baffled by the insistence that Trump is really a much better person than the one he regularly presents to the public. No one else is given that very generous benefit of the doubt, because no one actually knows anyone like that. The argument that he displayed good character by following a short list of policy ideas (when it suited him) falls far short of making the case.

    Look, the majority of people put on their best faces when on the job. They are professional, polite and behave with decorum and restraint because their boss is watching and because there are basic standards of behavior and decency expected to be met. If they aren’t, they understand that their jobs could be in jeopardy as a result. Except for Trump. If he was a different person behind closed doors, then I think he would be the exception, and too bad for him. He presented to us what he wanted us to see. He presented *his view* of what a strong leader looks like: a brash, braggadocio bully hell bent on making people believe he was smarter and tougher than anyone that came before him. IOW, his massive ego and equally insecurities ruled the day.

    Dana (cc9481)

  53. @50

    The sun is out and there are rainbows. Stop with recriminations.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 1/8/2021 @ 1:59 pm

    But Kev… folks want their pound-o-flesh.

    Unity be damned! /scarc

    Shoot, I’d settle for some decency and mutual respect.

    whembly (c30c83)

  54. The sun is out and there are rainbows. Stop with recriminations.

    The insurrection isn’t over. It’s just begun.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  55. @54 How you figure that?

    whembly (c30c83)

  56. West Virginia lawmaker Derrick Evans faces federal charges in Capitol siege

    A West Virginia state lawmaker who filmed himself storming into the U.S. Capitol along with a mob of supporters of President Donald Trump is now facing federal charges, the U.S. District Attorney’s office for the District of Columbia said Friday.

    West Virginia State Delegate Derrick Evans is charged with entering a restricted area, Ken Kohl, principal assistant U.S. Attorney for D.C., said on a press call.
    ……
    Evans, a newly elected Republican lawmaker, is facing bipartisan calls for his resignation. But Evans’ lawyer told CBS affiliate WVNS-TV that he would not step down and he “committed no criminal act that day.”

    The video Evans posted to social media Wednesday showed him yelling, “We’re here. We’re here. Derrick Evans is in the Capitol.”
    ……
    “While free speech and peaceful protests are a core value of American society, storming government buildings and participating in a violent intentional disruption of one of our nation’s most fundamental political institutions is a crime that should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law,” (Republican speaker of the West Virginia House of Delegates, Roger Hanshaw) wrote.
    …..
    Speaking to reporters on Thursday, U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia Michael Sherwin said “all options were on the table” when it comes to considering more serious riot or sedition-related charges for those arrested and anyone else who may have been involved with planning the attack.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  57. 38. Trump’s list of pre-presidency accomplishments is actually pretty short. He maneuvered into the Social Register of New York City by leveraging his father’s wealth and connections, screwing over subcontractors along the way whenever there was any threat of his projects actually costing him money. Given my distaste for the modern concept of “celebrity,” I’m still a little mystified at how he managed to ascend to any elected office, let alone the presidency. Celebrity is really the only thing he has going for him.

    Gryph (f63000)

  58. @54 How you figure that?

    The inside-the-party insurrection. #NeverTrump is as determined as #ForeverTrump.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  59. I’m still a little mystified at how he managed to ascend to any elected office, let alone the presidency. Celebrity is really the only thing he has going for him.

    He learned to mimic talk-radio hosts? He sure had all their memes down pat.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  60. 58. I don’t think we have to worry too much about Trump winning any office of importance. I don’t think he could run for Podunk County dog catcher and win now.

    Gryph (f63000)

  61. 59. I SMDH every time I think of all the times Rush Limbaugh used to say,

    My success doesn’t hinge on who wins elections.

    I hope that lickspittle can live with himself on his deathbed.

    Gryph (f63000)

  62. whembly @55-

    Seriously, do you think this is the last spasm of alt-right violence? If anything, the MAGA wing is even more emboldened to attack government representatives at any level. The Hawleys, Cruzes, Proud Boys, etc. haven’t been defeated. They won. They showed what could be done. It only requires more planning and better weapons. The first shot wasn’t fired on Wednesday, it was on April 19, 1995 in America’s heartland, and renewed in August 2017. It’s just begun.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  63. OMG. Trump’s Riot Party. No sh1t.

    https://youtu.be/jXM6h9elyTY

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  64. @55./@54. How you figure that?

    This has been festeringand fermenting for decades. Have you been asleep for the past 25 years?!:

    “They are in a terminal panic. They hear the shouts of the peasants from over the hill. All the knights and barons will be riding into the castle pulling up the drawbridge in a minute. All the peasants are coming with pitchforks. We’re going to take this over the top.” – Pat Buchanan, 1996

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  65. In case anybody is curious, this appears to be the article of impeachment that will be introduced on Monday:

    https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2021/01/heres-the-article-of-impeachment

    Victor (4959fb)

  66. @50 While they have gotten to the mea culpa part, some of them haven’t yet done their full confession and penance. Neither have they vowed to go and sin no more. Once they do that, they can be forgiven. But they really had better go and sin no more.

    Nic (896fdf)

  67. They Were Out for Blood
    ……
    It’s easy to think of the siege of the U.S. Capitol as a clown show with accidentally deadly consequences. A bunch of cosplaying self-styled patriots show up, overwhelm the incomprehensibly unprepared Capitol Police, and then throw a frat party in the rotunda. The miscreants smear sh!t on the walls and steal laptops and smoke weed in conference rooms. Someone gets shot; someone else has a heart attack, possibly under ludicrous circumstances. When they finally get rousted, they cry to the cameras about getting maced.
    ……
    Call the zip ties by their correct name: The guys were carrying flex cuffs, the plastic double restraints often used by police in mass arrest situations. They walked through the Senate chamber with a sense of purpose. They were not dressed in silly costumes but kitted out in full paramilitary regalia: helmets, armor, camo, holsters with sidearms. At least one had a semi-automatic rifle and 11 Molotov cocktails. At least one, unlike nearly every other right-wing rioter photographed that day, wore a mask that obscured his face.

    They went into the Capitol, as Congress was counting electoral votes, equipped to take hostages—to physically seize officials, and presumably to take lives. The prospect is terrifying. But just because it seems unthinkable doesn’t mean we shouldn’t think hard about what almost happened. Don’t dismiss the zip-tie guys as “LARPers” or “weekend warriors.” First of all, given the well-documented overlap between ex-military, law enforcement, and right-wing militias, it’s entirely possible these guys were weekday warriors using their training in service of extracurricular interests. (One of the Twitter sleuths who are now trying to track them down sure seems to think they’re ex-military.) More importantly, the long awful course of history reminds us how slippery the slope is from playacting as a strike force to actually behaving as a strike force. Once the zip ties go on, it doesn’t matter whether you’re a “real” terrorist or not.
    …….
    And also don’t forget the plot against Governor Whitmer. This is just beginning.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  68. @59.I’m still a little mystified at how he managed to ascend to any elected office, let alone the presidency. Celebrity is really the only thing he has going for him.

    Reaganoptics.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  69. I don’t think the pitchfork brigade has really gotten started yet, myself. But I don’t think the violence will necessarily come from quarters considered “alt-right.” It will come from men and women who are sick of having their businesses shut down, being told they can’t visit elderly loved ones, and the federal capriciousness that allows the outsourcing of slave labor and environmental fouling.

    Oh yeah. It’s just getting started. But along the way, many of the old assumptions will be defenestrated.

    Gryph (f63000)

  70. @57 He’s very skilled at marketing and that’s really what campaigning is, marketing.

    Nic (896fdf)

  71. 70. Steve Jobs was really skilled at marketing. You think he could have ever run for president like Trump did? I really, highly doubt it. Trump has a very specific subset of skills in that skillset. Without those specific skills, he never would have made the social register or managed to finagle a reality show.

    Gryph (f63000)

  72. I don’t think the pitchfork brigade has really gotten started yet, myself. But I don’t think the violence will necessarily come from quarters considered “alt-right.” It will come from men and women who are sick of having their businesses shut down, being told they can’t visit elderly loved ones, and the federal capriciousness that allows the outsourcing of slave labor and environmental fouling.

    Oh yeah. It’s just getting started. But along the way, many of the old assumptions will be defenestrated.

    Gryph (f63000) — 1/8/2021 @ 2:36 pm

    I’ll ask you the same question i do to everyone that complains about the global supply chain. How much of what you’re touching right now, clothing, flooring, furniture was made in the US? All of those things can readily be purchased in the US at a moderate premium. You can get shoes, pants, shirts, coats, under where all in US made. But most people don’t.

    The reason the government supports a global supply chain is because that’s what people have shown they want by the decisions that they make. Unless you’re making the alternative decisions that are readily available to you I don’t want to hear it.

    Time123 (235fc4)

  73. Trump has not changed. This is who is is. This is who he has always been. This is the Trump the never-Trumpers have seen since the beginning.

    We spent five years trying to warn people and fighting to protect America from this, and these Republicans who are wringing their hands today fought us every step of the way.

    They are every bit as responsible for this moment as Trump is.

    The evidence was there. They refused to see it. They fought those who did see it, acting to protect Trump, thereby ensuring that this day would come.

    It won’t happen, but none of them should ever serve in public office in any capacity again.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  74. So, Trump, his family and his inner circle filmed themselves dancing and partying while numerous screens showed the attack on Congress.

    The prosecution rests.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  75. 72. I didn’t say anything about a “global supply chain.” I said that federal capriciousness allows corporations to outsource slave labor and environmental fouling. You are not addressing that argument.

    Let me be very clear and very specific here: Apple, just as a for-instance, utilizes manufacturing facilities in China. China exploits slave labor as a matter of national policy. it’s just what the CCP does. Apple also utilizes parts made with rare-earth metals and silicon-doping chemicals that would be prohibitively expensive to mine and produce in America specifically because of environmental considerations.

    None of this bothers John or Jane Public in America because it’s immoral, or even illegal. The pitchfork brigade will come for the people in charge when this model of screwing them over becomes to blatant as to be unsustainable. By that time, a token gesture of raising the minimum wage won’t even keep them away.

    Gryph (f63000)

  76. @65: Good to see the disqualification clause included in the charge.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  77. Trump has not changed. This is who is is. This is who he has always been.

    Alzheimer’s is progressive.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  78. “The mistake we made is that we always thought he was going to get better. We thought that once he got the nomination and then once he got a Cabinet, he was going to get better, he was going to be more presidential.”

    This is BS. They just don’t want to admit that they have too choices: knuckle under to Trump’s control of the party, of try to get re-elected with 30% of “your” voters voting Democrat to spite you. They knew as soon as Tillerson and Mattis quit that it was going badly wrong.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  79. Anyone want to bet that Trump doesn’t issue a blanket pardon for the events of Jan 6th?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  80. Amash has, astonishingly enough, managed to come through this with his integrity intact. I would support him for future office, dependig of course on who his opponent was.

    HCI, at 3, I am experiencing an admittedly petty desire for reporters to harrass Susan Collins with the question “do you still believe Trump learned his lesson?”

    DCSCA: there’s no excuse for him winning. Everyone who wanted to see it could see who he was in 2015. Instead the Republican electorate let themselves get taken in by a narcissistic con man who then proceeded to damage the republic substantially.

    Ideally, we would take steps to ensure that this never happened again, and that would include the people who were conned taking a step back and trying to figure out how they let themselves get conned.

    That’s not going to happen, and so this will happen again, and next time the Republic may not survive.

    Kevin M, at 49: Flake also left Congress for explicitly this reason.

    Kevin M, at 50: Trump did serious damage to the Republic because these people enabled him. There is absolutely no reason to believe they have learned from their mistake and that they won’t enable the next guy. We *cannot trust them*, and if they had an ounce of intellectual honesty, they’d recognize that themselves.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  81. @71 I don’t disagree that Trump’s marketing skills are focused differently than Jobs’ were, but he’s still good at it. Michael Jordan and Michael Phelps are both good at sports, just not the same way. 😛

    Nic (896fdf)

  82. Kevin M, at 50: Trump did serious damage to the Republic because these people enabled him. There is absolutely no reason to believe they have learned from their mistake and that they won’t enable the next guy. We *cannot trust them*, and if they had an ounce of intellectual honesty, they’d recognize that themselves.

    They did not “enable” him (or at least most did not). They simply aimed to survive him. They worked for an organization that had a monopoly on political service, so changing jobs wasn’t an option. They could quit and get an honest job, or they could muddle through.

    Amash quit, fine. He had principles and no need for the job. So did Speaker Ryan and a few others. But as much as I wish it were otherwise, we do not elect people based on their principles. We elect them based on representing us, and you don’t need principles for that.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  83. What’s ironic too, is that these same Republicans are just now wringing their hands about the damage done to the Republican Party, both today and in the long-term

    This idea that this is all on Trump is such a laughable joke. How did Trump get elected? Maybe it was because the R’s and D’s are both rotten at the core? Trump wouldn’t have been able to kick the door in on a healthy R party and a healthy D party would have run off HRC and BO. We’ve still got the same rotten core and if anything it’s worse.

    We’re in a pit of crap waist-deep. Stopping Trump from slinging poo is an improvement but there’s still the waist-deep pile. If the election process is “free and fair” the next right-wing populist will probably not be incompetent and there will be one of this waist-deep situation isn’t addressed. If the process isn’t “free and fair” the situation will be worse.

    So, yea, it’s ironic that any reflection is happening “just now”. The problem is there isn’t enough of it.

    frosty (f27e97)

  84. I would support him for future office, depending of course on who his opponent was.

    Most Democrats don’t really mean that when they say it of a Republican (or vice versa). They may think they do, but it always happens that there is some little thing that makes them vote for their own party. (“Oh, he had his dog on the roof!”)

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  85. Kevin M, at 84: that may be true, but it is demonstrably not true for me, and I ask you to either clarify that you did not intend to include me in that remark or to withdraw it.

    In the last decade I’ve voted for a number of Republicans and *spoken about it in comments on this blog*.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  86. aphrael, I most certainly did not include you, and worded it as I did not to include you since I knew that you had indeed done the unusual. Most Democrats I know, however, have said the one and done the other more than once. They say they like Reagan, then vote for Mondale.

    Myself, I was unable to vote for Trump, but did not vote for Biden either, so maybe you are more principled than me.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  87. Thank you, Kevin.

    I’m still *seething* from Wednesday and that’s making me reactive. I apologize for directing it at you.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  88. @80. DCSCA: there’s no excuse for him winning.

    Except there is: he WON.

    ___

    Breaking News- Twitter has permanently suspended Trump’s account.

    Very, VERY J. Bruce Ismay of them.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  89. DCSCA: yes, he won. A narcissistic con man with zero empathy and no interest in anything other than his own ego manipulated a bunch of people with legitimate grievances into believing he was their savior, and then he used those useful idiots to intimidate the political establishment into stroking his ego.

    There’s no excuse for this. His *dupes* should be looking at the situation and trying to figure out how they let themselves get manipulated by an obvious con man. (Meanwhile, serious politicians should be figuring out how to redress their grievances).

    I doubt either will happen.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  90. whembly (c30c83) — 1/8/2021 @ 2:19 pm

    @54 How you figure that?

    I’ll try to give a different version of the other answers. There are comments here, and this seems to be a consistent NeverTrump problem, that display a complete lack of understanding of complex systems. Trump isn’t an anomaly like The Mule in The Foundation series. One guy, no matter how rich, doesn’t just become POTUS on a lark. His presidency is the result of more factors than can reasonably be itemized. Not only do a lot of those factors still exist but in some cases they are being embraced as solutions.

    frosty (f27e97)

  91. FYI: Make sure to address commenters that you are specifically addressing by their name. Do not use the number of their comment as the identifier. Because we have had an influx of trolls, and I am deleting their crap as I see it appear, comment numbers are being thrown off.

    Dana (cc9481)

  92. Frosty: oh, absolutely, Trump is a symptom and not the actual underlying problem.

    It’s still necessary to deal with the symptom because he’s one of those symptoms that aggravates and worsens the underlying problem.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  93. Murkowski is the first Republican senator to say Trump should resign: ‘I want him out.’
    …….
    “I want him to resign,” Ms. Murkowski said in an interview with The Anchorage Daily News. “I want him out. He has caused enough damage.”

    She went on: “He’s either been golfing or he’s been inside the Oval Office fuming and throwing every single person who has been loyal and faithful to him under the bus, starting with the vice president. He doesn’t want to stay there. He only wants to stay there for the title. He only wants to stay there for his ego. He needs to get out. He needs to do the good thing, but I don’t think he’s capable of doing a good thing.”

    In the long term, Ms. Murkowski’s suggestion that she might leave the Republican Party — “if the Republican Party has become nothing more than the party of Trump, I sincerely question whether this is the party for me,” she told the Anchorage paper — could prove even more significant than her support for Mr. Trump’s removal.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  94. They’d vote for that principled other party member only in an open primary or jungle primary to cock-block a more worrisome candidate. A lot of Cruz’s 2016 vote from Super Tuesday forward may have been of this flavor. Even with an open primary, enough Ds may feel the need to vote in a intraparty contest. California implemented jungle primaries about 40 years too late, whereas in states like Texas, Tennessee and perhaps Florida, a jungle primary system would lead to a party of Gohmert/Roy/Patrick and a party of Cornyn/Strauss/Cuellar with only a deep blue city party of Dems whose candidates would never make the top 2 for statewide office.

    urbanleftbehind (cdbfba)

  95. The twitter ban is tactically stupid, unless you got the goods on Parler’s infrastructure.

    urbanleftbehind (cdbfba)

  96. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/8/2021 @ 3:32 pm

    I’m a little disturbed by the glee in this creeping fascism. Is keeping Trump off Twitter so worthwhile that we’re willing to celebrate Dorsey deciding what political speech we can hear? No worries I suppose. There’s always Parler.

    frosty (f27e97)

  97. Some muthaforkers should be shut up.

    nk (1d9030)

  98. Shoulda done it five years ago.

    nk (1d9030)

  99. @89. There’s no excuse for this.

    You keep saying that. Except there is: he WON.

    This has been festering and fermenting for years. Did you listen to Babbitt’s video rants she posted? And she was once a ‘good guy’ — USAF, Nat’l Guard… she ripped everyone from Duncan Hunter to Newsom to Brown… every politician you can think of. Theses ‘folks’ have been used, suckered and ignored and trickled down on too long:

    “They are in a terminal panic. They hear the shouts of the peasants from over the hill. All the knights and barons will be riding into the castle pulling up the drawbridge in a minute. All the peasants are coming with pitchforks. We’re going to take this over the top.” – Pat Buchanan, 1996

    74-plus million of them- and their numbers have grown. And you know who knows that? Every GOP politician w/2024 ambitions who challenged the EC tallies.. like Hawley and Cruz.

    “Senator… don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining.” – Fletcher [John Vernon]’The Outlaw Josey Wales’ 1976

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  100. @96. See #99. The time to be disturbed was in 1996 when Reaganite Buchanan went off the reservation. These people are “you”- ‘the dark, hidden ‘Picture of Dorian Grey’ side of the GOP used toget elected then ignored and discarded. They’ve tasted victory, power and spilled blood. They’re not going anywhere. And the obtuseness displayed by the likes of McConnell, Pelosi, Schumr and McCarthy is still there on display. It’s utterly mindboggling how completely tone deaf they are to all this. They exist in an insulated bubble–and it got burst on January 6.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  101. You keep saying that. Except there is: he WON.

    Two things are funny about this. One you’re upset someone is being too repetitive. Two, Trump has never actually been popular. He lost the popular vote to Hillary and was crushed by Biden. Hillary and Biden aren’t amazing candidates, but they were more popular with America than Mr. Winner. Had Trump run against someone good, just imagine how crushing the defeat would be!

    The USA has always had some haters. We do want to think about the real, fundamental problem, that our federal government is so important and powerful that we get really mad when the ‘wrong’ side wins. It would be better if we didn’t need to care so much, because our real solutions were closer to home. To get there, you need to give up on hoping for that $2k check (that we will get soon I am sure).

    Russia has been effective at manipulating the minds of Americans. We need to deal with that. Honestly, if Biden blows up a couple of oil refineries over there in answer to Russia’s acts of war, I bet this whole problem goes away in a month.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  102. @100. Gee, what will they do w/o Twitter?!?! Guess they’ll have to start issuing something we once called a ‘PRESS RELEASE.” 😉

    ‘Course, there always still a call-in to Fox & Friends and Hannity!

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  103. 02. No, Justin. Just amazed that by the rules set by the party- 1+1=2. Not 11 won’t be accepted by a routinely intelligent poster.

    That is funny.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  104. And like a reddit on the run.

    nk (1d9030)

  105. ^ 102. Dustin. Sorry for the typo, D.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  106. As someone that believes is personal freedom I support twitters right to use their property in stupid censorious ways that diminish their value as a company (stock dropped on this) and makes the public less informed.

    Time123 (b75ce9)

  107. No worries I suppose. There’s always Parler.

    And Gab.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  108. @105. And in other news, Captain Smith was just handed another iceberg warning and NASA rec’d a memo from Thiokol suggesting not to don’t launch in the cold as the seals might leak.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  109. 02. No, Justin. Just amazed that by the rules set by the party- 1+1=2. Not 11 won’t be accepted by a routinely intelligent poster.

    That is funny.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/8/2021 @ 4:19 pm

    It is amazing that the (then) GOP was defeated by Trump. It is amazing that Team D was defeated by Trump. It isn’t that amazing that Trump screwed it all up, but that such a dumb screwup won a presidential election should have us asking ourselves what’s up.

    We never got a chance to do it because of all the nonsense Trump did. I have a hard time asking myself why Cletus Diabeetus is riding the Capitol Rotunda like a bull, what his political arguments are. Last one of these guys I asked in person told me, and I kid you not “go back to Saudi Arabia.” Yeah a lot of these guys are out there and want to hang the democrats.

    If you look at their complaints, they are both terrible (like pedophiles stealing elections) and stupid (like pedophile stealing elections).

    Dustin (4237e0)

  110. Hasn’t anybody ever seen ‘The President’s Analyst’ ???

    The Phone Company runs everything. 😉

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  111. Alzheimer’s is progressive.

    It is, Kevin, and Mulvaney said that Trump is worse mentally than eight months ago. I don’t know if it’s Alzheimers or something else, but he has degraded mentally since he first ran. Nevertheless, his character was there for anyone to see. He already had a long record of personal corruption and dishonesty.

    Paul Montagu (213a3b)

  112. Tennessee House Speaker on FBI raid: Those subject to search warrants on ‘administrative leave’

    Federal agents descended on multiple Tennessee Republican House members’ homes and state offices on Friday, collecting evidence while executing search warrants as part of an unspecified investigation just days before the legislative session begins.

    Nearly a dozen agents from the FBI entered the Cordell Hull legislative office building just before 8 a.m., fanning out into multiple offices for several hours before leaving with boxes full of items.

    The U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Middle District of Tennessee confirmed the FBI visited the homes of former House Speaker Glen Casada, R-Franklin; Rep. Robin Smith, R-Hixson; Rep. Todd Warner, R-Chapel Hill; and former Casada aide Cade Cothren. They also went to a business associated with Warner.

    According to multiple people with knowledge of the investigation, agents searched their homes, arriving around 7 a.m.
    ……
    Apparently this is not related to the insurrection but to on-going FBI investigation into legislative corruption.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  113. Time123 (b75ce9) — 1/8/2021 @ 4:25 pm

    I get the idea you’re going for but Twitter doesn’t have any personal property or personal freedom. They have private property. The idea of corporate legal personhood is a legal fiction created at law.

    And yes, they can use that private property as they see fit. One of the reasons fascism is so scary is this little authoritarian sleight of hand.

    frosty (f27e97)

  114. Twitter should be for adults only.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  115. RIP, that might related to Christmas Day rather than the insurrection.

    On that note, martyr application accepted with HASTE!

    https://uproxx.com/viral/alex-jones-white-house-told-me-to-lead-crowd-to-capitol-building/

    urbanleftbehind (cdbfba)

  116. Nevertheless, his character was there for anyone to see.

    Yes. NYC, 1980s. It’s all on tape to see on CNBC.

    A wholly Reagan Creation; NYers saw this dude’s show 35 years ago. Same guy then as now.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  117. Apple Has Threatened To Ban Parler From The App Store

    Apple has given Parler, the social network favored by conservatives and extremists, an ultimatum to implement a full moderation plan of its platform within the next 24 hours or face expulsion from the App store.

    In an email sent this morning and obtained by BuzzFeed News, Apple wrote to Parler’s executives that there had been complaints that the service had been used to plan and coordinate the storming of the US Capitol by President Donald Trump’s supporters on Wednesday. The insurrection left five people dead, including a police officer.
    …….
    Apple said that “to ensure there is no interruption of the availability of your app on the App Store,” Parler was required to submit an update and a “requested moderation improvement plan within 24 hours of the date of the message,” which was sent on Friday morning. Apple said if it did not receive an update from the company within that time frame, the app would be removed from the App store.
    ……
    On Parler, CEO John Matze struck a defiant tone. “We will not cave to pressure from anti-competitive actors! We will and always have enforced our rules against violence and illegal activity. But we WONT cave to politically motivated companies and those authoritarians who hate free speech!” he wrote in a message.
    …….
    Launched in 2018, Parler has become a safe haven for people that have been banned or suspended by popular social networks including Facebook and Twitter for violating those platforms’ rules. The Henderson, Nevada–based company has billed itself as a free speech alternative to mainstream social networks and taken a more relaxed approach to content moderation, attracting conspiracy theorists, members of hate groups, and right-wing activists who have openly incited violence. Recent threads on Parler, for example, have called for the execution of Vice President Mike Pence, and encouraged the conspiracy theory that left-wing antifa activists were behind Wednesday’s events.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  118. French is more relevant than ever.

    Paul Montagu (213a3b)

  119. urbanleftbehind (cdbfba) — 1/8/2021 @ 4:44 pm:

    I noted that it was unrelated to the insurrection.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  120. These moves by the left are predictable.

    When asking yourself why Trump managed to win, obviously you have to reference the left doing unpopular things. A common comment in 2017 was “this is how you get Trump.”

    But the people saying that didn’t listen to what they were saying.

    Humoring the lie that the election was stolen as thousands wear Civil War shirts and then sack the capitol is how you get whatever happens in the rest of 2021, and it’s not going to be conservative.

    So yeah, free speech is about to take a disturbing hit. Survelliance is going to get a boost. Our freedom will be harmed, much as it was after 9/11.

    Thanks Trump fans.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  121. Hey frosty, I wrote you a long response on other thread, it died so I wanted to let you know as it contains an apology for my uncharitable response.

    I don’t see this as fascist, but don’t have a lot of time to explain.

    Time123 (b75ce9)

  122. 119. ROFLMAO. The New Bircher.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  123. With apologies to the great Tom Lehrer:

    Gather round while I sing you of Canadian Cruz,
    A man whose allegiance is ruled by expedience;
    Call him unprincipled for changing his views,
    “Principles, schminzables” coos Canadian Cruz.

    Don’t say that he’s hypocritical,
    Say rather that he’s quite political;
    “Once he Donald is gone, by next week it’s old news!
    Memories are short,” coos Canadian Cruz

    Some have harsh words for his bait-and-switch ruse,
    But some say their attitude should be one of gratitude;
    Like the wife and the father; their honor abused,
    So easily betrayed by Canadian Cruz

    You become a conservative hero;
    Showing Texans you’ll betray them for zero;
    In Calgary ‘oder’ Houston, I have suckered you rubes,
    And I’ll sucker you again,” coos Canadian Cruz.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  124. Dustin — i’ve been talking about this with friends.

    When I look at how I am reacting, I am *angrier* today than I was on Sept. 13.

    This is hitting me harder and worse than 9-11 did.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  125. And based on what i’m seeing in my community, that feeling is pretty widespread on the left.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  126. Thirteen Charged in Federal Court Following Riot at the United States Capitol
    Thirteen individuals have been charged so far in federal court in the District of Columbia related to crimes committed at the U.S. Capitol in Washington, D.C, on Wednesday, Jan. 6, 2021. In addition to those who have been charged, additional complaints have been submitted and investigations are ongoing.

    “The lawless destruction of the U.S. Capitol building was an attack against one of our Nation’s greatest institutions,” said Acting U.S. Attorney Michael Sherwin. “My Office, along with our law enforcement partners at all levels, have been expeditiously working and leveraging every resource to identify, arrest, and begin prosecuting these individuals who took part in the brazen criminal acts at the U.S. Capitol. We are resolute in our commitment to holding accountable anyone responsible for these disgraceful criminal acts, and to anyone who might be considering engaging in or inciting violence in the coming weeks – know this: you will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.”
    ………
    Among the charges making interstate threats to Speaker Nancy Pelosi; knowingly entering or remaining in any restricted building or grounds without lawful entry; violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds; theft of public money, property, or records; possession of unregistered firearms and destructive devices (11 Molotov cocktails); assaults on federal law enforcement officers; violent entry and disorderly conduct on Capitol grounds; carrying or having readily accessible, on the grounds of the United States Capitol Building, firearms and ammunition.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  127. 110. It is amazing that the (then) GOP was defeated by Trump. It is amazing that Team D was defeated by Trump. It isn’t that amazing that Trump screwed it all up, but that such a dumb screwup won a presidential election should have us asking ourselves what’s up.

    No, Dustin. It’s NOT amazing. Scroll up and read Pat Buchanan’s rallying cry from 1996. There’s hard data on this; it has been festering and fermenting for years and years; Buchanan, Perot, Palin… Trump just was media savvy enough w/his New York ‘in your face to traditional politicians style’ to carry the ball across the goal line for them. Their numbers have only grown… These peope are pissed; and the tone deaf swamp creature reaction by the likes of McConnell or Pelosi remains mindbogging.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  128. @125. But not Sandy Hook, eh.

    Strange.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  129. They found as their standard bearer a narcisstic con man who cared about nothing about his own ego, and whose lack of concern about anything else rendered him willing to incite a mob to attack Congress — a denouement we didn’t know specifically was coming, for sure, but the personality flaws which caused it were plain to see years before he declared his candidacy.

    What kind of reaction were they expecting?

    aphrael (4c4719)

  130. DCSCA — Sandy Hook was an asshole breaking into a school and killing kids. It’s like Pulse, which was an attack directly on members of one of my core subcultures, or Route 91 Harvest (similarly an attack directly on members of one of my core subcultures).

    It was not an attack on the United States Capitol, and it was not incited by the President of the United States.

    So it’s not comparable. Really, in any way.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  131. This is hitting me harder and worse than 9-11 did.

    aphrael (4c4719) — 1/8/2021 @ 5:00 pm

    Yeah I understand this. Thousands of Americans who want to overturn our democracy is in a way worse than a few insane jihadists pulling off a horrible act of murder. It’s also nowhere near as bad, from a pure harm standpoint, but I get what you’re thinking.

    It’s frustrating to have been warning that Trump loved the Tienanmen square massacre, that he’s not man enough to put his country ahead of himself, that he’s constantly racist. I was right, and now I’ll just hear ‘yeah but what about other stuff’ sneers from the folks who were totally wrong.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  132. @131. Except it is.

    Worse.

    ___

    Best video of the day- Lindsey Graham heckled walking through Reagan Airport as his shorts go from white to brown.

    Oh, the irony on so many levels.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  133. Pat Buchanan was a nationalist xenophobic crank who couldn’t appeal to more than the political margins (his barely concealed anti-Semitism didn’t help). Trump embodied Buchanan’s schtick and he used his charisma and dishonesty to win an election. It doesn’t make Buchanan’s nationalist xenophobic crankery any more appealing, and it’s not a prescription for fixing an economy.
    NeverTrumpers like me won on election day, and our win was only solidified after the events of January 6th. Traditional conservatism won. We may have been in the remnant, but we weren’t gone. The person who’s going to go the way of the Birchers is none other than Trump and his idiot conspiracy theories.

    Paul Montagu (213a3b)

  134. Good news- ‘Elmo Grizzle’ arrested.

    Never tamper w/a lady’s mail, ‘Elmo.’

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  135. @134. A Reaganite. =mike-drop=

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  136. DCSCA, just so i’m clear: in your mind, someone breaking into a school and killing kids (which happened at least monthly prior to the lockdowns last spring) is *worse* than the president inciting a mob to attack the congress?

    are you honestly saying that?

    aphrael (4c4719)

  137. DCSCA (f4c5e5) — 1/8/2021 @ 5:13 pm

    Their numbers have only grown…

    I’m not sure the numbers have actually grown. A different way to look at it is how the parties overlap the voting blocks they are supposed to represent. The voting blocks have moved around some but the parties have moved much faster. “These people” didn’t just appear so much as the people the parties wanted to represent have changed.

    We need to have a general review of what “representative” democracy is supposed to be. Or not and we can see how this works out.

    frosty (f27e97)

  138. The world is only a dream in which we both dream and are dreamt, aphrael, and if DCSCA dreams that Sandy Hook is worse that is only a dream that we who are only dreams ourselves only dream that he is dreaming.

    nk (1d9030)

  139. “It’s also nowhere near as bad, from a pure harm standpoint, but I get what you’re thinking.”

    I think it could very easily have been much worse.

    Everyone focused on the clowns: The “q shaman” guy, the dude sitting at Pelosi’s desk, the guy stealing the lectern. But there people there prepared to do violence: the masked up guys with the flex cuffs, the pipe bombs. What do you think would have happened if they had cornered Pelosi, or AOC, or even Pence in an office?

    This is also why I don’t think comparisons to antifa or BLM apply.

    Davethulhu (95ea9f)

  140. @134. Own it: he is “you”:

    ‘Patrick Buchanan is an American paleoconservative political commentator, columnist, politician and broadcaster. Buchanan was an assistant and special consultant to U.S. Presidents Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, and Ronald Reagan, and was an original host on CNN’s Crossfire. He sought the Republican presidential nomination in 1992 and 1996. He ran on the Reform Party ticket in the 2000 presidential election.

    He co-founded The American Conservative magazine and launched a foundation named The American Cause. He has been published in Human Events, National Review, The Nation, and Rolling Stone. He was a political commentator on the MSNBC cable network, including the show Morning Joe until February 2012, later appearing on Fox News. Buchanan is also a regular panelist on The McLaughlin Group. His political positions can generally be described as paleoconservative, and many of his views, particularly his opposition to American imperialism and the managerial state, echo those of the Old Right Republicans of the first half of the 20th century.

    Buchanan served as Reagan’s White House Communications Director from February 1985 to March 1987. In a speech to the National Religious Broadcasters in 1986, Buchanan said of the Reagan administration: “Whether President Reagan has charted a new course that will set our compass for decades—or whether history will see him as the conservative interruption in a process of inexorable national decline—is yet to be determined”.

    A year later, he remarked that “the greatest vacuum in American politics is to the right of Ronald Reagan.” While her brother was working for Reagan, Bay Buchanan started a “Buchanan for President” movement in June 1986. She said the conservative movement needed a leader, but Buchanan was initially ambivalent. After leaving the White House, he returned to his column and Crossfire. Out of respect for Jack Kemp he sat out the 1988 race, although Kemp later became his adversary.

    The next year, he was the first adviser hired by Nixon’s presidential campaign;[12] he worked primarily as an opposition researcher. The highly partisan speeches Buchanan wrote were consciously aimed at Richard Nixon’s dedicated supporters, for which his colleagues soon nicknamed him Mr. Inside. Buchanan traveled with Nixon throughout the campaigns of 1966 and 1968. He made a tour of Western Europe, Africa and, in the immediate aftermath of the Six-Day War, the Middle East.

    During the course of Nixon’s presidency, Buchanan became a trusted on press relations, policy positions, and political strategy. Early on during Nixon’s presidency, Buchanan worked as a White House assistant and speechwriter for Nixon and Vice President Spiro Agnew. Buchanan coined the phrase “Silent Majority,” and helped shape the strategy that drew millions of Democrats to Nixon. In a 1972 memo, he suggested the White House “should move to re-capture the anti-Establishment tradition or theme in American politics.” His daily assignments included developing political strategy, publishing the President’s Daily News Summary, and preparing briefing books for news conferences. He accompanied Nixon on his trip to China in 1972 and the summit in Moscow, Yalta and Minsk in 1974. He suggested that Nixon label Democratic opponent George McGovern an extremist and burn the White House tapes.

    Buchanan remained as a special assistant to Nixon through the final days of the Watergate scandal. He was not accused of wrongdoing, though some mistakenly suspected him of being Deep Throat. In 2005 when the actual identity of the press leak was revealed as Federal Bureau of Investigation Associate Director Mark Felt, Buchanan called him “sneaky,” “dishonest” and “criminal.” Because of his role in the Nixon campaign’s “attack group,” Buchanan appeared before the Senate Watergate Committee on September 26, 1973. He told the panel: “The mandate that the American people gave to this president and his administration cannot, and will not, be frustrated or repealed or overthrown as a consequence of the incumbent tragedy”.’ – source, wikibio

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  141. @139. Sandy Hook a dream? You’re better than that, nk.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  142. A better plan: accept those that turn their back on Trump today, and put them on probation. Don’t force them back into Trump’s camp, but accept their support going forward.

    That’s a good point, Kevin. There should always be an avenue for redemption.
    However, Cruz has already become a “parole violator” with his post-1/6 remarks. F-ck him.

    Paul Montagu (37f526)

  143. 143.A better plan: accept those that turn their back on Trump today, and put them on probation. Don’t force them back into Trump’s camp, but accept their support going forward.

    The Steve Scully Redemption Project, eh.

    … and Dead Dick Nixon smiled.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  144. More like the “Take on Megyn Kelly, Glenn Beck, and Ben Shapiro circa 2017, but with warts and all this time around” project.

    urbanleftbehind (cdbfba)

  145. Problem is Kevin, you and Paul have got it backwards. The 74-plus million Trumpsters run the party now and the frightened poll who challenged the EC tally are vying for their support. So you either fall in line and work from within, a la Rockefeller Republicans circa 1964, gt pushed out like Birchers, leave on ou own and wander the wilderness for 35 years or try to start your own party. The smart ones will stay and work from within.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

  146. @139. Sandy Hook a dream? You’re better than that, nk.

    Just using a parody of Buddhism to defend your right to your own private Idaho, DCSCA. At least you’re not insisting on imposing it on other people like some comrades in the new Twitter ban thread.

    nk (1d9030)

  147. nk at @147, for what it’s worth, i got the joke, that was hilarious. :)

    aphrael (4c4719)

  148. I’ll be here all week, aphrael. 😉

    nk (1d9030)

  149. 148. Yes, we got it: Sandy Hook is something to ‘joke’ around about.

    DCSCA (f4c5e5)

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