Patterico's Pontifications

12/2/2020

Georgia Official Pleads To Trump To Condemn Violent Threats. Trump Responds: Rigged Election!

Filed under: General — Dana @ 10:42 am



[guest post by Dana]

A few days ago, I posted about Georgia’s Secretary of State George Raffensperger and the death threats he and his wife are receiving as a result of having certified the election for President-elect Joe Biden. Yesterday, Gabriel Sterling, the voting implementation manager with the Georgia Secretary of State’s office, publicly expressed his dismay over the post-election behavior and pleaded to the President to make a public stand against said threats. Because now it’s not just the Georgia Secretary of State and his family being threatened:

“It’s all gone too far,” he said with a raised voice to start the event. “All of it.”

It comes after a 20-year-old contractor for Dominion received death threats, Sterling said. He said the worker received threats with a noose on social media — saying he should be hanged for treason. He said the tech was transporting a report for batches in Gwinnett County.

“He was just trying to do his job,” Sterling said. “It’s not right.”

Sterling also mentioned Joe diGenova, the attorney for President Donald Trump’s campaign, calling for violence against Chris Krebs, a former White House cybersecurity official.

“He should be drawn and quartered. Taken out at dawn and shot,” diGenova said during The Howie Carr Show. He later said he was joking.

Sterling called on everyone, including the President and the GOP senators to condemn this type of action.

“Mr. President, you have not condemned these actions or this language. Senators, you have not condemned this language or these actions. This has to stop! We need you to step up and if you’re going to take a position of leadership – show some.”

Sterling also made a direct plea to President Trump:

“Mr. President. It looks like you likely lost the state of Georgia. We’re investigating. There’s always a possibility. I get it. And you have the rights to go through the course. What you don’t have the ability to do — and you need to step up and say this — is stop inspiring people to commit potential acts of violence. Someone is going to get hurt. Someone is going to get shot. Someone’s going to get killed. And it’s not right. It’s not right.”

“Mr. President, as the secretary said yesterday, people aren’t giving you the best advice what’s actually going on on the ground. It’s time to look forward. If you want to run for re-election in four years, fine, do it. But everything we’re seeing right now, there’s not a path. Be the bigger man here. And stop. Step in. Tell your supporters: don’t be violent. Don’t intimidate. All that’s wrong. It’s un-American.”

Appealing to Donald Trump for leadership and to be the bigger man is, unfortunately, laughable. Especially when he has a bruised ego to nurse. And while he acts out in cunning anger, he simultaneously stokes the fires of his loyal base. This is not unintentional. It is unfortunate that they are so willing to follow his lead, and like sheep, have gone astray from normal and rational behavior. Death threats are never, ever acceptable. And the President of the United States and Republican lawmakers should never, ever have to be pleaded with to publicly condemn them. The outrageous inaction by elected leaders when challenged to do the morally right thing is so beyond the pale that I suspect it will be long be seen as a stain of shame on the Republican party. Deservedly so.

Georgia Sens. David Perdue and Kelly Loeffler only addressed the threats of violence after being directly questioned by reporters:

“Senator Perdue condemns violence of any kind, against anybody. Period. We won’t apologize for addressing the obvious issues with the way our state conducts its elections. Georgians deserve accountability and improvements to that process — and we’re fighting to make sure the January 5th election is safe, secure, transparent, and accurate.” – John Burke, Communications Director

“Like many officials, as someone who has been the subject of threats, of course Senator Loeffler condemns violence of any kind. How ridiculous to even suggest otherwise. We also condemn inaction and lack of accountability in our election system process—and won’t apologize for calling it out. Senator Loeffler will continue fighting to ensure we have a fair, trusted, and accurate election because the future of our country is at stake.” – Stephen Lawson, Campaign Spokesperson

Here is President Trump’s reaction to Sterling’s plea:

Note: a spokesperson from the Trump campaign said “no one should engage in threats or violence, and if that has happened, we condemn that fully.”

–Dana

69 Responses to “Georgia Official Pleads To Trump To Condemn Violent Threats. Trump Responds: Rigged Election!”

  1. It boggles the mind that even the simplest and most obvious act that should be roundly condemned is too much for Republicans. Trump is responding exactly how I have come to expect him to behave when challenged to do the morally right thing.

    Dana (6995e0)

  2. Look, Dana, when you make America great again, you gotta roll up your sleeves and intimidate a few RINOs and Democrats. He fights.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  3. This is who Trump has always been.

    Unfortunately, though, somewhere between a third and two fifths of the country *believes* him, and that’s going to continue harming us for decades, and will probably be one of the direct contributing factors to the fall of the republic.

    Yay?

    aphrael (4c4719)

  4. Unfortunately, though, somewhere between a third and two fifths of the country *believes* him. . .

    See, I continue to be somewhat optimistic in this respect. I think that the number of people who actually believe the things that Donald Trump says is far less than the number of people who voted for him. To me, Trump is a lot like Bernard Sanders. There’s that 10% of our population who truly buys into the hogwash that each one of these bozos is selling (and, in a weird way, there’s a small bit of overlap between each group), and then there’s another group that will go ahead and vote for either guy, but don’t necessarily swallow their agendas whole.

    But I won’t argue with your contention that this sort of thing is undermining the republic.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  5. FWIW in GA the signature check is open to the public (so there were party observers). It’s done before the envelop is opened (so you don’t know how they voted) and once you take the ballot from the envelop you can’t link them back up. This is intentional for ballot secrecy.

    Also, Trump and his super-fans are garbage people who have no respect for our country or our way of life.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  6. This is who Trump has always been.

    Better keep those windows boarded up.

    If Raffensperger had failed to certify the results, he would still be getting death threats but it would be deemed not worth mentioning. Protesters would be camped on his lawn, his house graffitied, and Biden staffers would bail the rioters out.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  7. @6 Fortunately most of the country saw that Trump is an incompetent clown and we won’t find out if you were right that the people you hate and fear are as bad as the people you support.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  8. Allahpundit has more on the threatened military coup

    This doesn’t reach the level of actual treason, a federal crime with a very specific definition, but Ken White is right to call it “breathtakingly morally treasonous to American values.” There’s no way to prove it but my strong suspicion is that the people who are applauding the loudest for Flynn’s tweet today are also the people who had the most George Washington and Constitution iconography on their walls at home during the tea-party era.

    Dave (1bb933)

  9. RIP Rafer Johnson (86).

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  10. Dave, Trump and his superfans clearly have only contempt for our country, our constitution and our laws. It’s amazing what trash they are.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  11. If Raffensperger had failed to certify the results, he would still be getting death threats but it would be deemed not worth mentioning.

    You don’t know that, beer, because it’s hypothetical. You can’t slide into an alternate universe to see how events would have unfolded had Raffensperger gone the other way.

    Trump’s conditional condemnation of threats is itself condemnable.
    And as far as Trump and others impugning the GA voting system, Erick Erickson has excellent rejoinder, well worth watching the whole 10½ minutes.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  12. You don’t know that, beer, because it’s hypothetical

    LOL. Hypothetically, water is wet.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  13. Whats going on accusations of fraud are being treated either by silence or dogmatic denial. This is not too convincing to people. The on;y detailed rebuttal is in court decisions or some Op ed articles.

    What’s needed is an explanation of how the voting system works. Many of the accusations are not compatible with that.

    Sidney Powell did not start her press conference by 3 pm.

    We have these press conferences, assertions of completely wrong facts, and televised unofficial hearings with members of only one party there..

    Sammy Finkelman (bbf750)

  14. Imaginary whataboutism is the best whataboutism.

    nk (1d9030)

  15. Trump should follow Biden’s example and pull an Arafat:

    “I condemn all death threats against anyone for any reason.”

    Or how about:

    “The movement behind these death threats is an idea not an organization.”

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  16. Beer, I’m not sure what you’re saying. It’s as obvious as water being wet that Raffensperger didn’t get any more threats or hatred because the leader of the free world keeps putting all this irrational pressure on him?

    You’re doing that thing where you say ‘obviously’ to something that is actually ‘obviously not’. Why bother? Obama jump started a whole movement with saying one cop acted stupidly and Trayvon could have been his son. Trump was approximately one thousand times more inflammatory.

    This is like how you guys say we can’t hold a quarter million dead Americans in Trump’s complete screw up COVID response against him, because surely some of them would have gotten sick anyway.

    If you keep accepting such low standards, you keep getting such low quality. This is how you get Biden. do you want more Biden and Harris? If so, keep the standards low for Team R.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  17. Bnp — so, because Biden people hypothetically would have done the same thing, this is all no big?

    Appalled (713cfc)

  18. Trump should follow Biden’s example and pull an Arafat:

    “I condemn all death threats against anyone for any reason.”

    Or how about:

    “The movement behind these death threats is an idea not an organization.”

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 12/2/2020 @ 12:09 pm

    Trump should concede, apologize, tell the Proud Boys white supremacists they don’t need to stand by for violence, tell his fans that America is a great country even if the president is a democrat, preach a peaceful transition of power and trying again in the next election, like a man who has lost a game of HORSE or football. it’s too bad Trump is such a wimp about this.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  19. Time123 (b4d075) — 12/2/2020 @ 11:46 am

    Dave, Trump and his superfans clearly have only contempt for our country, our constitution and our laws. It’s amazing what trash they are.

    They say, or Ken Matthews, usually broadcasting on WHP in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, but who today substituting for Rush Limbaugh, who claims people need sources they can trust, which is evidently, not anybody who claims the election results are honest.

    He says he doesn’t know how people who think the United States is worse than China or Iran got into journalism. He praises state legislators who supposedly are interested in truth.

    All this has got to be intelligently answered. Even after they drop it.

    Sammy Finkelman (bbf750)

  20. @18, It would be easy to use Biden’s formulation about protests/riots. “Obviously I and my supporters have the right to challenge the results in court, but I completely condemn violence and threats of violence. Those have no part in what we’re doing.”

    Trump took a position of leadership without the desire or ability to actually lead. But leadership wouldn’t let him grift as much money from the morons who still believe in him.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  21. @19, It’s pure conspiracy theory. There’s no one they will believe bad news from. They’re like flat earth advocates in how impervious they are to data and reason.

    Time123 (daab2f)

  22. Sammy —

    Spend some google time to find transcripts of the press conferences the Georgia SEcretary of state does. These briefings are detailed about the charges floating around out there. Also, Dominion has specifically denied the charges

    Appalled (713cfc)

  23. Hypothetically, water is wet.

    Um, water is literally wet.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  24. At least we know that right-wing crazies are just like left-wing crazies.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  25. Biden’s nominee for Director of Office and Management and Budget, Neera Tanden, made very many attacking tweets over the years attacking members of Congress, not just Republicans, as well as other people, which she is gradually deleting. She’s lambasted everybody across the board.

    In 2016, she claimed that Russian hackers had switched votes from Hillary Clinton to Donald Trump!

    Glenn Greenwald:

    https://greenwald.substack.com/p/biden-appointee-neera-tanden-spread

    But what really distinguished Tanden when it came to unhinged and toxic behavior was her repeated (and obviously baseless) claims that Hillary only lost because Russian hackers invaded the U.S. voting system and clandestinely changed Hillary’s votes to Trump’s, costing the real winner — Hillary — her rightful place on the throne, behind the Resolute Desk.

    Four days after the 2016 election, Tanden began strongly implying, if not outright stating, that Russian hackers changed the vote totals, and that this is why “Trump was as surprised as everyone else” by his victory. When I highlighted her conspiratorial claims, she did not deny their obvious meaning, but rationalized them by insisting that her conspiracies were not as bad as Trump’s refusal, in advance of the election, [of 2016] to acknowledge the legitimacy of an election that had not yet taken place:

    …Tanden’s insistence that Russia changed the voting results through hacking did not end once her traumatic shock in the weeks after Hillary’s loss dissipated (if it ever did). After The Intercept published an anonymous, evidence-free document in June, 2017, allegedly sent by NSA employee Reality Winner, which led that site to claim that “Russian military intelligence executed a cyberattack on at least one U.S. voting software supplier and sent spear-phishing emails to more than 100 local election officials,” Tanden returned to pushing this bizarre conspiracy theory, demanding that I “retract” my post-election criticism of her for peddling this Russia-changed-the-votes madness — as if this NSA document published by The Intercept proved vote-changing hacking by Russia.

    You may remember that Barack Obama personally denied that this had happened. There was a reason he went out of his way to deny it.

    Neera Tanden has so much going against her that some people think she is a sacrificial lamb, nominated just in order to give the Republicans in the Senate someone to reject and, as a result, make other confirmations easier. But that’s probably not true. Jpw Biden is just a bit stubborn.

    Sammy Finkelman (bbf750)

  26. #22 Just google dominion voting systems.

    Appalled (713cfc)

  27. @3/@4. It’s the 80’s Redux. This guy is exactly the same guy he was when he was on the NYC stage in that decade-long running show w/co-stars Leona Helmsley, George Steinbrenner– and Steady Eddie Koch.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  28. Neera Tanden has so much going against her that some people think she is a sacrificial lamb, nominated just in order to give the Republicans in the Senate someone to reject and, as a result, make other confirmations easier. But that’s probably not true. Jpw Biden is just a bit stubborn.

    Sammy Finkelman (bbf750) — 12/2/2020 @ 12:34 pm

    IDK. She’s a Democrat’s Democrat. Despised by the Bernie Bros and Republicans alike. I don’t see her as a sacrificial lamb.

    Hoi Polloi (7cefeb)

  29. Appalled (713cfc) — 12/2/2020 @ 12:25 pm

    Spend some google time to find transcripts of the press conferences the Georgia SEcretary of state does. These briefings are detailed about the charges floating around out there.

    I think I saw one early one, which did not go into detail. I can;t find a recent one, just news articles about his press conferences.

    Also, Dominion has specifically denied the charges

    I did find one, and post it here, and it was good.

    https://www.dominionvoting.com/dominion-statement-on-sidney-powell-charges

    …on Wednesday, November 25, 2020, Sidney Powell released what appears to be a very rough draft of a lawsuit against the Republican governor and secretary of state of Georgia alleging a bizarre election fraud conspiracy that—were it possible—would necessarily require the collaboration of thousands of participants, including state officeholders, bipartisan local elections officials, thousands of volunteer Election Day poll watchers in thousands of locations across the state of Georgia, federal and state government technology testing agencies, private elections service companies, and independent third-party auditors. This quite simply did not occur….

    …Every vote from a Dominion device in Georgia is documented on an auditable paper trail and creates a verifiable paper ballot available for hand-counting. In fact, the Georgia handcounts, independent audits, and machine tests have all repeatedly affirmed that the machine counts were accurate.

    In addition, Powell makes a number of allegations that go beyond Dominion’s role in Georgia’s elections—which is only to provide the ballot tabulation systems. For the record, again, Dominion does not develop voter-registration systems, poll-books, signature verification software, or provide vote-by-mail printing. These parts of the voting process are instead supported by other companies and controlled by the state and local officials who run elections in hundreds of thousands of voting places across the country.

    There was also an Op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/fake-claims-about-dominion-voting-systems-do-real-damage-11606755399

    The allegations against Dominion are bizarre, but I’ll set the record straight. Dominion is an American company, now headquartered in Denver. Dominion is not and has never been a front for communists. It has no ties to Hugo Chávez, the late dictator of Venezuela. It has never been involved in Venezuelan elections. None of Dominion’s systems use the Smartmatic software that has come under attack, as any state certification lab could verify.

    There is no secret “vote flipping” algorithm. Third-party test labs, chosen by the bipartisan Election Assistance Commission and accredited by a program of the National Institute of Standards and Technology, perform complete source-code reviews on every federally certified tabulation system. States replicate this process for their own certifications. Postelection canvassing and auditing also exist to provide additional assurance of the vote totals’ accuracy.

    The part of the election process on which Dominion focuses is highly regulated and certified. The company doesn’t work in noncertified areas such as voter-registration systems, poll books or signature-verification software, and it doesn’t provide vote-by-mail printing. Dominion voting machines do one thing: accurately tabulate votes from county-verified voters using a durable paper ballot controlled and secured by local elections officials.

    …. Here are some of the safeguards in place in Georgia, where the Trump campaign has contested the result:

    • Tabulation machines are tested publicly, before bipartisan witnesses, before and right after Election Day.

    • On Election Day, poll workers—not Dominion systems—verify voters’ identities, including a signature check.

    • Voters mark a paper ballot to vote. Absentee voters use pens, while in-person voters use “ballot marking devices,” which display a digital ballot for voters to make a selection and then print a paper record. In both cases, voters verify the marked paper ballot before casting it in a secure ballot box through an air-gapped scanning tabulator.

    • After polls close, results are tallied by local officials. Paper ballots are safeguarded by thousands of poll workers distributed across 2,656 precincts.

    • The Georgia Secretary of State’s Office certified election results after hand-auditing five million ballots, which showed that the paper-ballot voting system counted and reported results accurately. The small change to the final tally was due entirely to the addition of ballots that had been uncounted due to human process errors.

    • The state also enlisted Pro V&V, a certified third-party testing laboratory, to audit a random sample of Dominion machines. No tampering was found.

    However, we don’t see too much of that,

    All thee allegations are based on people’s ignorance of the voting system. Plus false background facts. I don;t think that Raffensperger and others understand the degree of ignorance that all this is playing to, They should direct people to precinct by precinct resultz.

    Sammy Finkelman (bbf750)

  30. Hoi Polloi @28. I agree Neera Tande is not a deliberate sacrificial lamb. I think Biden doesn’t understand. It’s just that she’s so pro-Hillary.

    Sammy Finkelman (bbf750)

  31. I think Biden doesn’t understand.

    We are going to be writing that a lot these next four years.

    Hoi Polloi (7cefeb)

  32. Apropos Bill Barr’s AP interview where he said:

    “There’s a growing tendency to use the criminal justice system as sort of a default fix-all,” he said, but first there must be a basis to believe there is a crime to investigate.

    Republicans seek DOJ investigation of Rep. Bill Pascrell over attacks on Trump legal team

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  33. If Raffensperger had failed to certify the results, he would still be getting death threats but it would be deemed not worth mentioning.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 12/2/2020 @ 11:37 am

    You can’t be serious. I mean, not even you can actually believe a statement this ridiculous.

    This is your most insulting troll effort to date…and that is saying something.

    Demosthenes (d7fc81)

  34. People who excel in a niche are often eccentric. Lin Wood comes to mind. Mixing eccentricity with FU money can be highly amusing because the FU money is a loud voice that says there is no need to put a filter on again, ever. I’d argue that a filter is still a useful device but no one listens to me in part at least because:
    A. To be honest, my value added to the 2020 electoral process is slim anyway
    B. My so called FU money is actually overstretched at “sod off wanker”

    Imagine what I could be capable of if God gifted me with Elon Musk money and then you’ll know why He didn’t.

    steveg (43b7a5)

  35. Dumping on David Perdue:

    2,596 Trades in One Term: Inside Senator Perdue’s Stock Portfolio
    …….
    An examination of Mr. Perdue’s stock trading during his six years in office reveals that he has been the Senate’s most prolific stock trader by far, sometimes reporting 20 or more transactions in a single day.

    The Times analyzed data compiled by Senate Stock Watcher, a nonpartisan website that aggregates publicly available information on lawmakers’ trading, and found that Mr. Perdue’s transactions accounted for nearly a third of all Senate trades reported in the past six years. His 2,596 trades, mostly in stocks but also in bonds and funds, roughly equal the combined trading volume of the next five most active traders in the Senate.

    The data also shows the breadth of trades Mr. Perdue made in companies that stood to benefit from policy and spending matters that came not just before the Senate as a whole, but before the committees and subcommittees on which he served.
    …….
    Mr. Perdue’s Democratic challenger, Jon Ossoff, has seized on the trading as a campaign issue. In a news conference on Monday, he accused Mr. Perdue of “using his office to enrich himself” through the stock trades. A spokesman for Mr. Perdue called the critique a “discredited line of attack” that was “baseless,” and his campaign recently unveiled an ad arguing that he was “totally exonerated” by federal overseers who had studied his trades.
    …….
    It’s never a good sign when you have to run a campaign ad arguing that you were ” “totally exonerated”.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  36. If Raffensperger had failed to certify the results, he would still be getting death threats but it would be deemed not worth mentioning.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 12/2/2020 @ 11:37 am

    It’s apparently not possible for you to condemn something that is morally repugnant on its face. You seem to be compelled to looking at everything through your political lens. But here’s the thing, there are any number of morally unacceptable behaviors that deserve to be condemned regardless of the political party behind the behavior. When something is morally unacceptable, politics shouldn’t be a determining factor in whether to condemn it. To see just how much politics supersedes principles and values in the heart of some Trump loyalists is a dark reminder of just how damaging Trumpism has been.

    Dana (6995e0)

  37. Republican’s are eating their own in Georgia. The nut jobbery begins with the national anthem at 37:00. Stop the Steal Rally in Georgia. At 1:15:00.

    “if Kelley Loeffler wants your vote, if David Perdue want’s your vote they got to earn it. They’ve got to demand publicly, repeatedly, consistently, Brian Kemp call a special session of of the GA legislature and if they do not do it, if Kelly Loeffler and David Perdue do not do it they have not earned your vote. Don’t you give it to them. Why would you go back and vote in another rigged election. For God’s sakes fix it. Ya gotta fix it before we’ll do it again.

    Crazy!

    Purple Haze (c89a51)

  38. If Raffensperger had failed to certify the results, he would still be getting death threats but it would be deemed not worth mentioning.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 12/2/2020 @ 11:37 am

    You can’t be serious. I mean, not even you can actually believe a statement this ridiculous.

    This is your most insulting troll effort to date…and that is saying something.

    I rarely comment as I just don’t have time (and I type slowly!) but a few weeks ago Patterico asked if this guy’s contributions were worth the spam he spreads; I didn’t think think he was, but I didn’t comment as I’m not a regular commenter here (though a daily reader) and I figured he was at least a notch above the trash from Conservative Treehouse or Gateway Pundit.
    I don’t think so any longer – he’s not a serious voice – or maybe he is a serious “True Believer”.
    Either way, he’s a distraction, and derails topics time and again.

    Tom M (347d19)

  39. Drawn and quartered. Obviously, Joe DiGenova doesn’t care if someone gets hurt or killed. What about Donald Trump and Lou Dobbs?

    noel (9fead1)

  40. Do Trump and Dobbs care that their words may be inciting violence? They have to know that their targets are being threatened.

    noel (9fead1)

  41. It’s apparently not possible for you to condemn something that is morally repugnant on its face. You seem to be compelled to looking at everything through your political lens

    Apparently, it’s not possible to make the point that these condemnable incidents are bring leveraged for base political purposes without being accused of looking at things through a political lens.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  42. *being leveraged

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  43. @40: I have to wonder what would motivate someone to seek another commenter’s ban, based just on content as opposed to violating commenting rules (which I’ve yet to do).

    There are plenty of commenters here who I think offer only drivel. Seeking their ban would never enter my mind.

    Tom M, maybe you can help provide a window into the psyche of cancel culture.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  44. B&P

    So, is Sterling being manipulated? Is he a tool of the Dems? (Hint, he really does not care for Stacey Abrams either) Is he lying when he tells us he will be voting GOP in the runoff?’

    Appalled (1a17de)

  45. To me, Trump is a lot like Bernard Sanders. There’s that 10% of our population who truly buys into the hogwash that each one of these bozos is selling (and, in a weird way, there’s a small bit of overlap between each group), and then there’s another group that will go ahead and vote for either guy, but don’t necessarily swallow their agendas whole.

    Putting aside the implied equivalence between Trump and Sanders (IMO Sanders is worse on policy, Trump immeasurably worse in all other respects), I don’t know how many buy what Bernie is selling, but there’s good evidence Trump is believed by considerably more than 10%. Several polls show most Trump voters, up to nearly 80%, believe the election was rigged. That’s a quarter of the population conservatively, maybe much more.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  46. Apparently, it’s not possible to make the point that these condemnable incidents are bring leveraged for base political purposes without being accused of looking at things through a political lens.

    Sure it’s possible: These are despicable threats and should be loudly condemned from the President to Republican lawmakers to all members of the GOP because these are morally reprehensible. Also, if President Trump hadn’t led the way by openly attacking Raffensperger knowing that his super-fans would follow his lead, there wouldn’t be any real threats for Democrats to leverage. If President Trump had kept all manner of personal attack out of his own responses, and made a pre-emptive strike by making it undeniably clear that said attacks or threats were unacceptable and that he wanted his supporters to refrain from any such behavior, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. But as it stands…

    Dana (6995e0)

  47. @46: Sterling is understandably upset about death threats directed at his colleagues, as any of us would be. I think he would be equally upset whether those threats came from the right or the left.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  48. if President Trump hadn’t led the way by openly attacking Raffensperger knowing that his super-fans would follow his lead, there wouldn’t be any real threats for Democrats to leverage.

    Maybe I’m not totally up to speed on this story, in which case I’ll freely admit my error, but I missed the part where Trump called for death threats against Raffensperger.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  49. Maybe I’m not totally up to speed on this story, in which case I’ll freely admit my error, but I missed the part where Trump called for death threats against Raffensperger.

    Yeah, I’m not playing your game. My comment is clear as a bell. That you choose to play tiddly winks is on you.

    Dana (6995e0)

  50. Fear and greed. Facing prosecution and bankruptcy, the orange is tainting the jury pool and raising every penny he can in the waning days of his con-game. With more than a little pissing in the well he won’t be drawing water from any more, as well.

    With every new day that I witness his antics, I want Biden’s DOJ and every state prosecutor with jurisdiction, to sit down with a copy of their respective criminal codes and check off every crime that they believe they have probable cause to charge the corrupt criminal traitor with. Pour encourager les autres. It’s not enough to drain the orange pus. The boil must be cauterized, too, so it never comes back.

    nk (1d9030)

  51. Isn’t it funny that in Clash of the Titans the Kraken was an oversold grandiose threat that failed almost immeadiately?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  52. My guess is that she was thinking “cracker” when she said it, then she was stuck with it.

    nk (1d9030)

  53. What I find funny is that more than fifty years later, Northern Republican lawyers are again in a Southern state telling it that it’s not doing its elections right, but this time it’s for letting black people vote too freely.

    nk (1d9030)

  54. Yeah that’s a plot twist.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  55. Trump Posts 46-Minute Speech Alleging Voter Fraud In The Election (from Allahpundit):

    “We have a company that is very suspect. It’s name is Dominion. With a turn of a dial or the change of a chip you can press a button for Trump and the vote goes to Biden. What kind of a system is this. We have to go to paper.”

    Dominion’s machines *do* generate a paper ballot. I think he’s under the impression that their system is purely electronic so that all one need do is hack into them and start switching Trump votes to Biden votes in the database to alter the count. That’s not how it works. I myself voted on a system similar to Dominion’s and ended up with a paper product. First I checked in, where I was handed a blank paper ballot. Then I went to the voting machine and slid that ballot into the machine. I made my selections on a touchscreen, then hit “print.” The previously blank ballot came back out with my selections printed on it, which I then checked for accuracy. Finally, I went to a second machine and slid the paper ballot in, where it was scanned and stored. The result is that there’s an electronic record (via the scan) *and* a paper record of my vote and everyone else’s. When Georgia conducted its hand recount, the ballots it was counting were the paper ballots generated by the Dominion machines. They matched up almost exactly to the electronic records, proving that no one had tampered with the electronic data.

    And because each voter’s presence was registered via the initial check-in, the state could compare the number of check-ins to the number of votes to make sure no one stuffed the ballot machine with paper ballots surreptitiously.

    We’re almost a full month on from Election Day and the president seems not to understand how the machines at the center of his voter-fraud conspiracy theory actually operate. Why not? Is he also unaware of the fact that he won 81 percent of the counties that used Dominion voting machines in key swing states on November 3? That was actually slightly better than he did among counties that didn’t use Dominion. What a strange conspiracy.

    Yeah, strange conspiracy. It’s almost like he’s brazenly lying to his gullible followers, with complete disregard for the facts.

    Dave (1bb933)

  56. Joe DiGenova said that the former top US cybersecurity official, Christopher Krebs, should be “taken out at dawn and shot” or “drawn and quartered”.

    One of the President’s lawyers publicly says these things about a government security official. Why? Because that official won’t align his analysis with the President’s fantasies. Can you imagine four more years of this?

    noel (9fead1)

  57. It could have been worse. A Nigerian Prince could have run in the Republican primaries this time around.

    nk (1d9030)

  58. Dave, As has been demonstrated in this thread, intelligent people will refuse to admit what’s happening or twist themselves to pretend it’s justified because they don’t want to give their political opponents the satisfaction.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  59. #60

    Nah. A Nigerian Prince isn’t a natural born citizen.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  60. Bookmark this:
    Tiny Donnie will milk this for another 11 days. Then he will move into Act III.
    He will be tragic.
    He will be sacrificing.
    He will be generous.
    He will be magnanimous.
    He will be patriotic.
    He will be law-abiding.
    For the good of America.
    For the good of the world.
    For the good of the universe.
    For the sake of peace on Earth and good will to all people.
    Even though he won by a landslide, he will obey the decision of the Electoral College, and allow them to declare Joe Biden the winner of the election.
    Because that is how he is.
    The best President America ever had.

    nk (1d9030)

  61. Today in Georgia — dueling conspiracy theories:

    Lin Wood as Democratic plant —

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/12/02/records-lin-wood-decades-voted-donated-democrats-including-barack-obama-david-perdues-2014-opponent/

    Breitbart as part of the Marxist/Communist conspiracy underway in Georgia

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/12/wth-breitbart-wages-war-attorney-lin-wood-defending-president-trump-election-integrity-lin-wood-responds/

    Who will win? Maybe Warnock and Ossoff…

    Appalled (1a17de)

  62. The people that care about the lies are gone. Now they’re trying to win an election with a base comprised of people okay with the lying and people who believe the lies.

    Time123 (ae9d89)

  63. 65 —

    The real problem is that Trump types are confused bout the real enemy. Is it RINOS and enemy of the people election folks who report results that upset the Donald? Or is Chuck n Nancy n Joe?

    The Trump types are confused because the Donald is confused. But I think Donald knows the real enemy is the person who delivers the bad news. And he’ll let us know that at his big COVID events this weekend.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  64. My Party is Going F*cking Insane, Part 903,746.
    This is Giuliani’s star witness at yesterday’s hearing in MI. More here:

    Weeks after Melissa Carone was tapped by the Trump campaign as a star witness in Michigan, little appeared to be going as planned with the contract IT worker’s testimony — an unverified series of claims about ballot fraud at Detroit’s vote-counting center.

    In interviews with conservative-leaning media last month, her offbeat tale suggesting ballots were being smuggled inside food vans seemed to baffle even Fox Business host Lou Dobbs. Two days later, a Wayne County judge ruled that her allegations “simply are not credible.”

    Yet, there she was in front of a Michigan House panel on Wednesday, dressing down a Republican lawmaker as she loudly insisted, without proof, that tens of thousands of votes had been counted twice. At one point, she was audibly shushed by Trump campaign attorney Rudolph W. Giuliani.

    How does SNL parody that?

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  65. She’ll be running for something soon and she’ll win because the Dems are that horrible.

    JRH (52aed3)

  66. All this nonsense and reprehensible rhetoric is causing state Republicans in Georgia to suffer from anxiety. They’re afraid of what he might say at his rally on Saturday, but are more afraid of coming out against him no matter was he says.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/03/trump-georgia-rally-senate-442484

    At the same time, Republicans are cheering on a second Trump run in 2024.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/12/02/republicans-cheer-on-a-trump-2024-run-442310

    This is a strangely confused and deformed party. The Republicans don’t seem to understand that the more they support Trump and his conspiracies, the more votes they lose. It’s a conundrum. The GOP actually gained seats in down ballot races, while the voters overwhelmingly rejected Trump. So what are Republicans to conclude from that? Continuing to support Trump and his insane antics will lead to further gains in down ballot races?

    I don’t think so. We will see over the next few years, once Trump is out of office. And he will be on Jan. 20. We will see how enthralled the Republicans are to Trump, how willing they are to demean themselves for him. 2022 is a long way away, so is 2024.

    The point being that failed lawsuits, dismissed without merit, false claims, conspiracy theories, death threats (against Republicans!) have an expiration date. I suspect that date will be Jan. 20.

    Trump will be a nobody after that date. He will have no power, no influence. He will always have his cult followers, but they’ll never be more than 10% of the population.

    Thus, the more Trump the Republican party becomes, the more votes it will lose. Most Republicans didn’t vote for Trump as many who voted against Clinton. That’s understandable. Now that we have seen how Trump operates in office, the verdict is, “You’re fired.”

    He cannot accept that the American people do not want him in office, because they’ve had enough of his malignant narcissism. Yet, predictably, he will not go gently into that good night. In fact, as evidenced, he will go out insanely mad.

    Any Republican who does not denounce his and his supporters rhetoric, claims of fraud and calls for medieval torture and execution, should be ashamed of the themselves.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)


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