Patterico's Pontifications

11/30/2020

Trump Meltdown Continues

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



Trump gave an unhinged interview to Ministry of Propaganda Chief Maria Bartiromo over the weekend, alleging that his loss resulted from “massive dumps” of Biden votes:

And what happened, if you watched the election, I was called by the biggest people, saying congratulations. Political people. “Congratulations, sir, you just won the election.” It was 10 o’clock and you looked at the numbers, and I’m sure you felt that way. This election was over. And then they did dumps. They called them dumps. Big massive dumps in Michigan, and Pennsylvania, and all over.

In unrelated news, the Twitter hashtag “#DiaperDon” trended on that sewer of a Web site after some yutz from “The Apprentice” made some claim about Trump having worn adult diapers on the show or something. That is interesting not for the typical juvenile Resist-taunts, but for Trump’s reaction. First, he drew attention to it, Streisand-effect style:

And then repeated his push to repeal Section 230 of the CDA:

Because if it embarrasses Donald Trump, it hurts national security, I guess.

His lame duck period is the train wreck we all knew it would be. As always, it is interesting to watch who chooses to beclown themselves by latching onto this nonsense.

It’s pretty much the people you would expect.

76 Responses to “Trump Meltdown Continues”

  1. When I first started learning about dog training, I had to find a way to keep dogs from jumping up on me. Kneeing them didn’t seem to work. Yelling did not.

    Turning away did.

    This is only my opinion, and everyone else can do or write or say whatever they like. I just want to ignore DJT. I hope he will quit jumping up. But the press seems to enjoy kneeing him or yelling.

    What an awful time in our history.

    Simon Jester (58ffc9)

  2. The real story here is not that Trump keeps regurgitating his Big Con, which was expected, it’s all the enablers who know better and all the gullible fools who are going along with his Big Lie, despite a 2.5% success rate in court and despite the lack of any serious evidence anywhere. Here’s a good takedown of Powell’s lawsuits.
    A subset of those enablers are the elected Republicans who are staying quiet and keeping their heads down instead of calling out Trump’s massive irresponsibility. They’ll be remembered for the cowards they are.
    Peggy Noonan had a good piece about the similarities between the John Birch Society of yore and the Trump cult and QAnon of today. Back then, we had William F. Buckley and other stalwarts to denounce the JBS cranks. Today? Trump is too big and Republicans are too scared. No stalwarts to be found. Most of them sold their political souls. This party needs to blow up.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  3. I’ve been curious about this claim that counting stopped at 3 am, and then resumed (sometime later?) with large numbers of Biden votes.

    Wouldn’t it be natural for people to get tired late at night and stop counting? Wouldn’t it be objectionable if sleep deprived staff didn’t try to count?

    And, given that for weeks people had been anticipating that the mail in ballots would favor Biden, given how much Trump was criticizing them, and that in some states like Pennsylvania they weren’t allowed to count the mail in ballots until the day of the election, wouldn’t it be predictable that the numbers would start to swing the next day?

    In other words, for Trump supporters, in a world not infected by Massive Democratic Fraud, how did they think it was going to play out? That the numbers on Election day would be frozen? That the proportions of Trump to Biden votes from that day would just continue?

    I really can’t even figure out how the conspiracy is supposed to work sometimes, let alone whether it actually happened.

    Victor (4959fb)

  4. I’ll bet Aaron Rupar tweeted that from his internet tractor.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  5. His lame duck period is the train wreck we all knew it would be.

    His last year was the train wreck. THIS is nuking the rubble.

    I hope this continues and more and more of his followers discover what asses they’ve been. Once he is out of office and concentrated on saving his empire from final BK, not to mention several grand juries, the inevitable GOP dissing of the guy that left may destroy his further ambitions.

    One thing that hasn’t come up, but should, is the way the market has been whipsawed by administration statements and Trump tweets. And his son-in-law runs a hedge fund. Seems a cozy arrangement.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  6. the John Birch Society of yore and the Trump cult and QAnon of today.

    I am sure that there IS a Deep State, just as I am sure there were Stalinists in government back then (e.g. Alger Hiss). But neither is as strong or as important as the conspiracy mongers think. More likely is that Trump was simply unable to run the government and any opposition stymied him. Ronald Reagan ledt these same people in the dust.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  7. I’ll bet Aaron Rupar tweeted that from his internet tractor.

    I think the last thing Trump supporters should do is make fun of other people’s tweets.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  8. Because if it embarrasses Donald Trump, it hurts national security, I guess.

    Just think what the freedoms of Speech, Press and Assembly do.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  9. I was called by the biggest people

    Has Chris Christie confirmed this?

    Dave (1bb933)

  10. given that for weeks people had been anticipating that the mail in ballots would favor Biden, given how much Trump was criticizing them

    Had Trump promoted mail ballots, and got out the vote for 4 weeks like Biden did, instead of focusing everything on one day, he probably would have won all those close states and been re-elected. It would not have taken much.

    But he’s really not a man to spend time on reflection, so he blames everyone else instead. That his followers continue to follow suggests that they do too. What is sad is that there are so many people in this country that are so consumed by anger that they cannot think straight.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  11. Trump is convincing many of his supporters there are real election problems here, and I don’t see them ever changing their minds.

    DRJ (aede82)

  12. I’ve been curious about this claim that counting stopped at 3 am, and then resumed (sometime later?) with large numbers of Biden votes.

    I don’t think counting stopped in PA, MI or WI on election night. I stayed up and sort of live blogged it here after other commenters turned in for the night.

    In PA there was a period of a few hours in the middle of the night where they stopped updating totals. I recall CNN interviews with election officials in PA and MI in the around sunrise saying that counting had continued all night in their jurisdictions.

    I think counting may have stopped overnight in AZ and NV, but Biden held leads in both those states more or less all evening, and the question was whether Trump could come back (and he didn’t).

    Dave (1bb933)

  13. Corrupt criminal traitor making America a laughingstock in the eyes of the world, and in our own eyes, to the very end. Not that we don’t deserve it for electing him in the first place. Or for ever thinking that creatures like Rand Cruz and Ted Paul were worth spitting on.

    nk (1d9030)

  14. For purposes of National Security, Section 230 must be immediately terminated!!!

    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 27, 2020

    Which is ironic as all hell…

    Why?

    Because rumors are that Trump would want to buy a cable channel and associated websites. As owners of those assets, he’d WANT Section 230 in its current form!

    whembly (a3f260)

  15. I’m glad that trump is focusing on proving the earth is flat.
    1. It’s good to have lots of court cases where the judge finds the earth is round.
    2. The damage has already been done so this further uses his time.
    3. It helps identify people who think the earth is flat so we can stop paying attention to them.

    Time123 (80b471)

  16. @14, Trump prioritizes what people in the press are saying about him today over almost any other concern.

    Time123 (80b471)

  17. Dave,

    Good to know about the continuing counting. I guess they just kept people up all night. I went to sleep around 11. And given that humans are involved in all parts of the operation, it still doesn’t seem much of a mystery that at some point in the early morning some of them would have taken a break, including for example reporting out the counts.

    Victor (4959fb)

  18. National Review making a bid to rebuild their credibility:

    Trump’s Disgraceful Endgame

    Good to see, but having argued for keeping this yutz in office, they should plan on rebuilding for quite a while.

    Dave (1bb933)

  19. Usually the media stops talking about the candidate who lost an election.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  20. Usually the candidate who lost an election concedes.

    Dave (1bb933)

  21. Usually lawfare is allowed to run its course.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  22. @21, Let trump continue to prove that he lost fair and square. The earth will continue to be round either way.

    Time123 (80b471)

  23. Arizona has certified Biden’s victory.

    And Kelly’s. He will be sworn in Wednesday.

    Dave (1bb933)

  24. 3. Victor (4959fb) — 11/30/2020 @ 9:11 am

    . wouldn’t it be predictable that the numbers would start to swing the next day?

    It was predictable, and it was predicted.

    Bad as polls were, they couldn’t miss something that massive.

    In fact hat was a big part of the reason Facebook established a policy f opposing claims of victory, and that also caused Joe Biden to be slow about it..

    Trump knew it too.

    Because he or his campaign was screaming fraud before Election Day.

    https://www.npr.org/2020/11/01/930140373/fact-check-trump-falsely-claims-that-votes-shouldnt-be-counted-after-election-da

    …Trump has repeatedly made unfounded claims about the integrity of absentee voting and even told supporters on Sunday to “be careful” with mail-in ballots…

    ..Trump campaign senior adviser Jason Miller reiterated the argument Sunday on ABC’s This Week, adding an unfounded accusation that Democrats would do something nefarious.

    “If you speak with many smart Democrats, they believe President Trump will be ahead on election night, probably getting 280 [electoral votes], somewhere in that range, and then they’re going to try to steal it back after the election,” Miller said.

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  25. “But the press seems to enjoy kneeing him or yelling. What an awful time in our history.”

    Yeah Simon, this is the key. A press that respected journalistic standards would dutifully ignore propagandists and minimize their air time. Speak rationally and be responsive to the questions or else no air time. This is what Trump figured out correctly in 2015. They just can’t help themselves…..and there’s enough people out there that prefer a food fight over civil discourse. For some, it’s just too hard to switch it off.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  26. Usually the media stops talking about the candidate who lost an election.

    The implication that the cause of that difference is anything but Trump himself is delusional or dishonest. Either way it’s very Trumpian. Anyone who hasn’t seen Where’s My Roy Cohn owes it to themselves to do so.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  27. Mark Steyn, substituting for Rush Limbaugh, seems to be assuming that the election stealing is fact.

    On the grounds that no place else takes so long to count the votes. And they don;t have security cameras watching the counting.

    That’s because every absentee vote is examined very carefully.

    Some places did not have paper ballots, but that went down from 25% in 2016 to 5% in this election. Even without that, every precinct has separate totals counted that night. There’s extensive audit capability.

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  28. Thus is nothing like what Hugo Chavez did with the recall vote in Venezuela in 2004 (whose results were dishonestly certified by Jimmy Carter, and then endorsed by the Bush Administration.)

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/venezuelas-guide-to-election-theft-11606684680

    The important distinction is the decentralized architecture around a U.S. election and the legal paths that challengers enjoy in U.S. courts.

    Chávez had already rewritten the constitution and fired 18,000 petroleum-industry workers in retribution for a strike at national oil-monopoly PdVSA when the recall vote was held. The idea that foreign observers were on hand to ensure fairness was a joke. The European Commission didn’t send an observer mission because, it said, it had “not been possible to secure” the conditions “to carry out an observation in line with the [European] Union’s standard methodology.”

    That was a polite way of saying that the police state made honest observation impossible. No matter, the Carter Center signed up. Its main role turned out to be blessing a dubious result and the dictatorship’s wall of secrecy in assessing what happened.

    On the day of the referendum, Sunday, Aug. 15, 2004, Venezuelans turned out in big numbers, confident that they could rid themselves of the antidemocratic strongman through the democratic process. An exit poll by the American polling company Penn, Schoen & Berland Associates found that Chávez lost his bid to stay in power by 59% to 41%.

    Yet, as I reported on Aug. 20, “at three o’clock on Monday morning two members of the National Electoral Council (CNE) who are politically opposed to Chávez announced that they had been shut out of the audit process and warned the public that the established protocol had been violated. Some 50 minutes later pro-Chávez CNE member Francisco Carrasquero emerged alone to proclaim Chávez the winner.”

    The Carter Center went along with the announcement, as did the OAS, claiming that a “quick count” confirmed it. But as I reported, the quick count was merely a “look at the tally sheets spat out by a sample of voting machines.” The useful foreigners, I had learned, had not been “allowed to check this against ballots the machines issued to voters as confirmation that their votes were properly registered.” Three days later the Bush State Department caved in to Mr. Carter’s insistence that his friend Hugo had won. It announced “the people of Venezuela have spoken.”

    Venezuelans begged for justice. Enrique ter Horst, a Venezuelan and former U.N. deputy high commissioner of human rights, wrote at the time about his concerns in the International Herald Tribune: “The papers the new machines produced . . . were not added up and compared with the final numbers these machines produce at the end of the voting process, as the voting-machine manufacturer had suggested.”

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  29. AJ – I’ve seen you’re comments here and another site, and I respect your opinion, but the above @25 seems…simplistic.
    How can the MSM turn it off?
    What voices would be left? The barking dogs of Fox and the rabid kennels of the Gateway Pundit, Britebart and the rest?
    It’s true what you say – CNN and the rest are getting more views and more interest than ever, and that’s because of Trump.
    But how do we turn it off now?
    I think (hope) that there are enough self aware people in media and journalism that would turn off the nonsense, even at the hit to the bottom line in the short run. But how to do it?
    I also think Trump and his circus of the last 4 years have actually allowed the Legacy Press to avoid the hard questions off running an information source that works and is profitable in the 21st century (for the time being).
    But the real question is how to stop the crazy? How to report and still avoid the 24/7 trap that is Trump and his “Squad”?
    It’s like an addiction, but it’s not just the media that needs the intervention, it’s the county.

    Tom M (347d19)

  30. Kemp to Trump: Georgia law blocks him from ‘interfering’ with elections
    Gov. Brian Kemp’s office responded Monday to President Donald Trump’s demands to help him overturn Georgia’s election results with a reminder that state law “prohibits the governor from interfering in the election.”

    The Georgia Republican has become a favorite target of Trump, who said Sunday he was “ashamed” that he endorsed him in 2018 and tweeted Monday that the “hapless” governor should use non-existent “emergency powers.”

    “Georgia law prohibits the governor from interfering in elections. The Secretary of State, who is an elected constitutional officer, has oversight over elections that cannot be overridden by executive order,” said Kemp spokesman Cody Hall.
    ……..
    The criticism could haunt Kemp through the 2022 midterms, when he is gearing up to face Stacey Abrams in a likely rematch. It appears increasingly possible that he might first have to survive a primary challenge from a Trump-backed adversary — perhaps Doug Collins, a four-term congressman now leading the president’s Georgia recount effort.
    …….
    Trump’s tweet on Monday called on Kemp to use “his emergency powers, which can be easily done, to overrule his obstinate Secretary of State and do a match of signatures on envelopes.”

    Signatures on absentee ballot envelopes were verified by county elections officials when they were received at county election offices. But it’s impossible to “match” signatures to ballots, since they were separated from envelopes to protect the secret ballot, leaving no way to link voters to the candidates they chose.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (74ef5d)

  31. I’ve been curious about this claim that counting stopped at 3 am, and then resumed (sometime later?) with large numbers of Biden votes.

    The Dispatch covers it.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  32. “They say you don’t have standing. You mean as President of the United States, I don’t have standing? What kind of a court system is this?” – President Donald Trump

    And to think Trumpists give him credit for all those judges, as if he has any interest in, much less understanding of what they stand for.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  33. Usually lawfare is allowed to run its course.

    Trump’s record is 1-39 with only 11 cases left, and Powell’s two lawsuits are a joke. How much more course needs to be run?

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  34. Usually lawfare is allowed to run its course.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/30/2020 @ 10:32 am

    The river of lawsuits has been allowed to run its course. It is now nearly dry, having almost emptied itself into the sea of useless tears.

    Demosthenes (d7fc81)

  35. How much more course needs to be run?

    Can’t wait for the two year special counsel milking to ramp up.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  36. Can’t wait for the two year special counsel milking to ramp up.

    But whatabout, whatabout…
    Is there a Crossfire Hurricane II out there that no one knows about? I’m going to go out on a limb and say that President Biden won’t sack FBI Director Wray, even if he’s investigating Hunter Biden or some of the sketchier characters on Biden’s campaign, and Biden won’t involve himself in the kind of corruption that would justify a Special Counsel.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  37. Trump is convincing many of his supporters there are real election problems here, and I don’t see them ever changing their minds.

    Yup, this fable seems likely to become Trumper gospel for years. What concerns me is, this is the same crowd that justifies unethical action by claiming it is retatilation for past evil actions by the left (some real, some imagined, and many exaggerated). I think you’ll find these people ready and willing to try to steal the 2024 election as supposed “payback.” Whether they are able to do so is a different question. One of Biden’s top priorities needs to be intensive preparation for that possibility.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  38. Paul, thanks the Dispatch article was helpful with some of the specific fraud claims. The overall sense that I get is that rarely before has the process of counting and reporting on counts been subject to such intensive attention, and each grain of error, or correction becomes a boulder under the microscope.

    Victor (4959fb)

  39. And Kelly’s. He will be sworn in Wednesday.
    Dave (1bb933) — 11/30/2020 @ 10:37 am

    And Xi smiles…

    Hoi Polloi (3bc019)

  40. What concerns me is, this is the same crowd that justifies unethical action by claiming it is retatilation for past evil actions by the left (some real, some imagined, and many exaggerated). I think you’ll find these people ready and willing to try to steal the 2024 election as supposed “payback.”

    By not forcefully repudiating Trump’s attempts to steal this election, the GOP establishment has made stealing elections “the new normal”.

    After all, using Trump cult “logic”, if the Republicans are going to try stealing elections, the Democrats have to “fight back” by doing it too.

    Trump and the people who put him in office have taken a dump on our country.

    Dave (1bb933)

  41. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ze3p-WeLCGk

    Glorious.

    ____

    Biden Fractures Foot Playing With His Dog, Putting Him in a Boot

    “The president-elect visited an orthopedic specialist, and while initial X-rays did not show an obvious fracture, a more detailed CT scan showed hairline cracks. President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. twisted his ankle playing with one of his dogs over the holiday weekend, an injury that his doctor said on Sunday resulted in hairline fractures in his foot that would most likely require him to wear a walking boot for several weeks…

    President Trump, who has refused to concede to Mr. Biden, reposted on Twitter an NBC News video of Mr. Biden leaving the doctor’s office on Sunday, and added, “Get well soon!”

    -source, https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/29/us/politics/biden-foot-boot.html

    ” Pull that stuff on flight test, it’s all over for him. I say he screwed the pooch, partner.” – Jack Ridley [Levon Helm] ‘The Right Stuff’ 1983

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  42. His lame duck period is the train wreck we all knew it would be.

    LOLOLOLOLOL which one is literally casting a shadow ‘to boot’… 😉

    “FIDO says it couldn’t be any better.” – NASA PAO, STS-1, 4/14/81

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  43. Dominion strikes back.

    The allegations against Dominion are bizarre, but I’ll set the record straight. Dominion is an American company, now headquartered in Denver. Dominion is not and has never been a front for communists. It has no ties to Hugo Chávez, the late dictator of Venezuela. It has never been involved in Venezuelan elections. None of Dominion’s systems use the Smartmatic software that has come under attack, as any state certification lab could verify.

    There is no secret “vote flipping” algorithm. Third-party test labs, chosen by the bipartisan Election Assistance Commission and accredited by the National Institute of Standards and Technology, perform complete source-code reviews on every federally certified tabulation system. States replicate this process for their own certifications. Postelection canvassing and auditing also exist to provide additional assurance of the vote totals’ accuracy.

    The part of the election process on which Dominion focuses is highly regulated and certified. The company doesn’t work in noncertified areas such as voter-registration systems, poll books or signature-verification software, and it doesn’t provide vote-by-mail printing. Dominion voting machines do one thing: accurately tabulate votes from county-verified voters using a durable paper ballot controlled and secured by local elections officials.
    […]
    These attacks undermine the tens of thousands of state and local officials who run our elections. When it comes to counting ballots, officials have established a distributed, multilayered system with checks and balances, in which robust safeguards ensure that no one needs to trust blindly any person, company or technology. Here are some of the safeguards in place in Georgia, where the Trump campaign has contested the result:

    • Tabulation machines are tested publicly, before bipartisan witnesses, before and right after Election Day.

    • On Election Day, poll workers—not Dominion systems—verify voters’ identities, including a signature check.

    • Voters mark a paper ballot to vote. Absentee voters use pens, while in-person voters use “ballot marking devices,” which display a digital ballot for voters to make a selection and then print a paper record. In both cases, voters verify the marked paper ballot before casting it in a secure ballot box through an air-gapped scanning tabulator.

    • After polls close, results are tallied by local officials. Paper ballots are safeguarded by thousands of poll workers distributed across 2,656 precincts.

    • The Georgia Secretary of State’s Office certified election results after hand-auditing five million ballots, which showed that the paper-ballot voting system counted and reported results accurately. The small change to the final tally was due entirely to the addition of ballots that had been uncounted due to human process errors.

    • The state also enlisted Pro V&V, a certified third-party testing laboratory, to audit a random sample of Dominion machines. No tampering was found.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  44. As if Trump’s hour-long rant on Bartiromo wasn’t enough, the Giuliani-Ellis roadshow went to Phoenix this morning to conduct a “hearing”, eliciting courtroom ballroom testimony from “experts”.
    The media called the Giuliani-Ellis event in AZ an “unofficial hearing”, which was charitable to Trump’s lawyers. It took place in a Hyatt Regency ballroom, 2 miles away from the state capitol, 1½ miles from the nearest state court and 1 mile from the nearest US District Court.
    This means that Trump’s lawyers’ confab was nowhere near the halls of justice or the legislative houses, places where Giuliani-Ellis are not allowed to lie because they would be under oath. It was a sales pitch, right next to the room where a speaker could be hawking the latest multi-level marketing venture.
    That a smattering of legislators showed up is neither here nor there. It was a PR stunt, nothing more. Not only that, it was completely inconsequential because AZ certified the election in Biden’s favor. Trump’s Big Lie is crumbling, but it deserves to be destroyed.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  45. @29 Tom, I agree that the media is responding to demand….and that we as a society have created the circus. The confounding part of it is that we’ve blurred news and opinion….and overwhelmed news with opinion….and worse yet idle speculation. FNC will say that Brett Baer plays it straight down the middle. But the problem is that the other 95% of FNC programming does not…and employs no journalistic standard to limit spin. MSNBC is as bad on the other side. Viewers and readers have to decide that they want better politicians…and quit excusing the inexcusable. Unfortunately, I only see it happening because something absolutely horrible happens and it’s no longer entertainment.

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  46. The GA Secretary of State wanted the job.

    If you don’t want the headache, resign and sell your knitting on Etsy.

    Everyone in CA knows the way to go is to copy Gavin Newsom and run for Lt. Governor and then when elected do absolutely nothing productive. Board of Regents meetings for UC system? No show every time. Spend your entire term in San Francisco and never go to Sacramento.

    I think he did represent California once in Paris by attending a climate change photo op and then retiring to his suite for some Champagne

    steveg (43b7a5)

  47. The Powell lawsuits have made some vague but serious claims. I understand Dominion denies it all but has any court hearing specifically addressed these claims — on either side?

    DRJ (aede82)

  48. One thing this shows: The judges that the GOP handed Trump to appoint are not beholden to Mr Trump but to the law instead. If any of this gets to the Supreme Court (unlikely but they may take one case for show), it will go 9-0 against Trump.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  49. The Powell lawsuits have made some vague but serious claims. I understand Dominion denies it all but has any court hearing specifically addressed these claims — on either side?

    If you don’t care about your reputation you can file cases as fast as you can write them, which is probably why the quality continues to be below that of a high school graduate. Why in the world would a court entertain this slop? Dominion is 100% right, all of their software and machines are audited by every state, before and after each election, by both the states and 3rd parties, just like it was when Dominion was Diebold and the dems were claiming the same stupidity.

    Powell may be right, it only would take a few thousand people, maybe 60k-70k, no more than 300k at most. Dumb, stupid, moronic, and even taking it with a grain of seriousness is an insult to rational thought.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  50. @47 The software reads paper ballots and everywhere they have done a hand recount or pre/post counts there hasn’t been a significant discrepancy shown.

    Nic (896fdf)

  51. Some State court pleading rules allow general claims but federal court complaints must have specific claims. Powell’s lawsuits were riddled with typos and errors but they also included affidavits by people with possible expertise. Excluding the portion of the Ramsland affidavit that was marred by the disastrous Michigan-Minnesota mixup, there are claims that allege and provide affidavits regarding specific election problems. The claims may be specious but, to a court, Dominion’s denial statement is no more probative than Powell’s allegations.

    My question is: Has any court heard evidence on these claims or have all of them disposed of the lawsuits on procedural grounds? Procedural dispositions are legitimate decisions but I am curious if any courts addressed the merits.

    DRJ (aede82)

  52. The software reads paper ballots and everywhere they have done a hand recount or pre/post counts there hasn’t been a significant discrepancy shown.

    Nic

    I believe that but has there been evidence submitted in one or more courts, or is this based on announcements by election officials?

    DRJ (aede82)

  53. @53 Announcements by multiple election officials from both parties in multiple states. I think the courts are in process on the issue in Georgia, but the rest of the cases didn’t even make it that far.

    Nic (896fdf)

  54. Trump Campaign Lawyer Joe diGenova Says Fmr DHS Official Chris Krebs Should Be ‘Taken Out at Dawn and Shot’
    Trump campaign lawyer Joe diGenova indulged in an outrageous, reckless call for violence on Newsmax, telling host Howie Carr that former DHS Cybersecurity chief Chris Krebs should be “taken out at dawn and shot” for daring to debunk the absurd election conspiracies being pushed by President Donald Trump.
    ……
    “Anybody who thinks that this the election went well, like that idiot [Chris] Krebs, who used to be the head of cybersecurity,” diGenova continued, attacking the former DHS official who was summarily fired by Trump via Tweet after Krebs dared to debunk the president’s many deranged voter fraud claims and instead rated the 2020 election the “most secure” in the nation’s history.

    “The guy who as on 60 Minutes last night,” Carr said, commiserating.

    “That guy is a Class A moron,” diGenova spat out in disgust, before offering up two different ways Krebs could be executed that was noticeably devoid of sarcasm. “He should be drawn and quartered, taken out at dawn and shot.”

    Carr’s response to calling for the death of a public official whose only crime was to publicly disagree with the president? A few sympathetic chuckles, before he matter-of-factly moved on to his next question.
    ………
    Another classy appearance by a Trump attorney on a Trump loyalist’s radio show. Video at link.

    Rip Murdock (74ef5d)

  55. Peggy Noonan had a good piece about the similarities between the John Birch Society of yore and the Trump cult

    Except nanooN has it pegged backasswards; she is the ‘Bircher;’ the Reagan cultist who’s been Buckley’d out of the way.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  56. diGenova is just showing strong message discipline. Apparently all the Trumpworld lawyers got the same memo: The anti-Trump coup in their heads requires all good Trumpers respond with an anti-Biden coup in the streets.

    Here’s Sydney Powell confirming she got the memo too.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  57. people with possible expertise

    I looked, and no, they didn’t have a single claim from a person with any expressed expertise. Possible expertise isn’t a thing, actual expertise is.

    Since I’ve testified as an expert in cases as a nerd in cases like this, and every time the attorney that used me required my creds be entered in the initial case complaint. Getting an affidavit from a guy who runs the website where QAnon comes from and a person with an alias should have be taken at face value based on their creds presented…there were none.

    It’s complete and total bullspit, it doesn’t even rise to laughable. There isn’t one creditable claim in a single one of these cases. These people have no credibility, zero, zilch, nada.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  58. So that’s what made Sidney Powell “special” to Trumpers. She’s bughouse crazy in their approved way. Cause I’ll tell you, I wondered. As a lawyer, she’s no ball of fire. More of a pile of wet kindling.

    nk (1d9030)

  59. I said possible experts because I don’t know them and I doubt there have been hearings where they have tried to qualify them as experts. As an expert witness yourself, you know how that works.

    DRJ (aede82)

  60. I realize Trump and his surrogates think courts are for scoring PR points, but I think courts should deal with these claims according to the rules. I trust they are.

    DRJ (aede82)

  61. You don’t get to have your claims bounced out of court in every jurisdiction, but just keep recycling them in a new location. They’re crap, not even jokes, the lawyers should be censured and probably disbarred. They are completely unethical and are willingly and knowingly (enthusiastically) perpetrating a fraud on the court.

    Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0)

  62. There is a process for finding someone is filing frivolous lawsuits. I’m betting you would apply that to Powell based on your comments.

    DRJ (aede82)

  63. But typically that doesn’t happen without hearings on the merits, which is what I am asking about.

    DRJ (aede82)

  64. She’s bughouse crazy in their approved way.

    As you say, it’s the only explanation that makes sense. Her self-certain bugnuttery is the perfect complement to Trump’s shameless dishonesty.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  65. But I think many people will believe what she says if the claims aren’t dealt with on the merits.

    DRJ (aede82)

  66. I only know what I read in the papers, but since in all the cases the Trump legal beagles (with apologies to that noble dog) were looking for a preliminary injunction, probability of success on the merits had to weigh heavily in the courts’ decisions, and the Trump lawyers offered no evidence but only allegations and conclusions.

    nk (1d9030)

  67. Probably, although this Georgia case has granted temporary relief. A court hearing on the merits may be moot as far as this election is concerned, but I also fear too many people will believe the election was unfair if we rely solely on the media or public opinion to develop the facts/evidence.

    DRJ (aede82)

  68. I think the evidence could show that a significant number of voters voted against Trump while voting for other Republicans on the ballot. I would like to see that evidence developed in a court proceeding and not just in exit polls.

    DRJ (aede82)

  69. Trump is convincing many of his supporters there are real election problems here, and I don’t see them ever changing their minds.

    Yup, this fable seems likely to become Trumper gospel for years. What concerns me is, this is the same crowd that justifies unethical action by claiming it is retatilation for past evil actions by the left (some real, some imagined, and many exaggerated). I think you’ll find these people ready and willing to try to steal the 2024 election as supposed “payback.” Whether they are able to do so is a different question. One of Biden’s top priorities needs to be intensive preparation for that possibility.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 11/30/2020 @ 12:43 pm

    I think this will happen. It will almost be required to fulfil their sense of justice. What scares me even more is how few GOP leaders are willing to stand against this.

    Time123 (306531)

  70. 63. Colonel Klink (Ret) (1367c0) — 11/30/2020 @ 8:19 pm

    You don’t get to have your claims bounced out of court in every jurisdiction, but just keep recycling them in a new location.

    This is not filing the same claim in different jurisdictions, but more like filing claims against different people that allege similar things.

    Maybe there could be an issue of never having any standing.

    https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-lawyer-sidney-powell-pushing-conspiracy-filled-election/story?id=74471227

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  71. She could get sued herself, though.

    The company at the center of Powell’s claims, Dominion Voting Systems, issued a statement last week saying it intends to hold Powell “and those aiding and abetting her fraudulent actions, accountable for any harm that may occur as a result.” And election law advocates from both parties said that even if her cases are swiftly dismissed, as they expect them to be, they are no laughing matter…

    …It’s too soon to say how the cases will be handled by the federal courts. Cases that have relied on similar claims have been swiftly and emphatically dismissed by state and federal judges as lacking in evidence. However a judge in Georgia over the weekend gave a nod to the Powell case, ruling that state elections officials could not alter electronic voting machines while the court hears arguments over whether to allow Powell’s team to have them analyzed.

    I think they would need to use the same machines for the January 5 runoff. But if so, it’s not a problem for now. But they did a ballot by ballot hand recount (technically an audit sample of 100%) followed by a machine recount.

    Similar to the case Powell brought in Georgia, the allegations in Michigan rest on dozens of affidavits from eyewitnesses who claim — without corroborating evidence — that they witnessed fraudulent activity in various aspects of the counting process and that the campaign was denied meaningful access to observe the process. The suit also relies on affidavits from self-described “expert analysts” who claim they found “statistical anomalies and mathematical impossibilities” in the results.

    Many of these affidavits are recycled from other cases brought in Michigan that have since been denied or withdrawn….

    Perez, from the Brennan Center, said the cases have almost no shot of going anywhere, and they raise more questions than answers about who is truly pushing the effort.

    “It’s very, very damaging, but who is the one encouraging this to happen? And what is the endgame?” said Perez. “It is, at this point, a fundraising strategy, and it’s sowing discord.”

    I guess you can;t ask a lawyer, who, if anyone is paying her fees.

    The most logical motive some people can think of, is it is to raise money by direct appeal.

    Sammy Finkelman (1e81da)

  72. Sammy, I’m loving these law suites.

    It’s rare to have a stupid conspiracy theory tested this completely. Usually it’s a just a bunch of people arguing on the internet; spinning, moving goalposts and bringing up new ideas when old ones aren’t working.

    This time a theorist with effectively unlimited resources is being forced to put their crackpot ideas down with specifics and evidence that can be challenged and tested. It’s wonderful.

    The damage to our democracy be people who don’t care about the country is already done, but this is making the best of what we have.

    Time123 (306531)

  73. As another Greek recently wrote: “Voters, not lawyers, choose the President.”

    We should not let the New York sewer rat change the rules and impose on us the burden to prove in court that he is a lying loser who lost fair and square.

    The people vote. Their votes are certified at the polling precinct. Then they’re certified by the county election authority. Then they’re certified by the state election authority. Then they’re certified by the state legislature. Then the state legislature certifies the Constitutional Electors. Then those Electors vote. Then their votes are certified by Congress in joint session.

    And that’s the way it is, in this the 244th year of the Founding of the United States of America, and Trump can go drown himself in his own spit and so can his supporters.

    nk (1d9030)


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