Patterico's Pontifications

11/30/2020

Joe DiGenova: Trump’s Fired Security Chief Should Be “Shot” for Saying the Election Was Fair

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:15 pm



Totally shocking and unpredictable, right?

Not so much, actually. On October 26, I made the following predictions about the post-election period:

So what happens now to the Republican party?

You might have guessed that Step One would be the recriminations, but it turns out to be Step Two. Step One is dealing with the claims of fraud. The most immediate issue: Trump has not conceded the election, despite the obvious lopsided results. Fox News and fever-swamp right-wing sites have come out with what they claim is clear evidence of fraud. CNN and the rest of Big Media purports to debunk these claims, and independent observers can see that while there are one or two possibly suspicious episodes, they are not nearly enough to have swung the election. No matter. Trump and his diehards spend weeks claiming that an investigation needs to be opened, and the drama occupies the country up to and even after the inauguration of Joe Biden.

. . . .

The Kurt Schlichters and Dan Bonginos of the world continue to mold themselves as the Only True Trump Fans, and their vitriol towards NeverTrumpers, which previously seemed to have no room to intensify, becomes alarmingly over-the-top. References to NeverTrumpers being literal traitors who ought to be lined up against the wall and shot become shockingly commonplace.

Always trust content from Patterico.

On Monday President Trump’s campaign lawyer and former U.S. Attorney Joe diGenova said that fired Trump cybersecurity chief Chris Krebs should be executed for saying that the election was the “most secure in United States history.”

DiGenova, appearing on the Howie Carr show, which simulcasts on Newsmax, took aim at Krebs as an aside during a wheels-off segment full of false claims about how the United States election had been rigged.

“Anybody who thinks that this election went well, like that idiot Krebs who used to be the head of cybersecurity [for Trump]. That guy is a class A moron. He should be drawn and quartered. Taken out at dawn and shot,” diGenova said.

During the Clinton impeachment, I would watch diGenova and Victoria Toensing on Hannity and Colmes and thought he was great. Like so many right-wingers, he was either kooky all along or Trump turned him into a kook, and I’m not totally sure which.

Chris Krebs should be re-hired by the Biden administration.

Joe diGenova should be flushed down the toilet of history.

96 Responses to “Joe DiGenova: Trump’s Fired Security Chief Should Be “Shot” for Saying the Election Was Fair”

  1. Lovely.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. The dung beetles are losing their food source and they’re mad is how I would characterize it, Patterico.

    nk (1d9030)

  3. I still say one of these galoots needs to be an example of, but probably best to wait a little bit and treat the inauguration ball crowd to real-life Order 66 on some Jumbotrons.

    urbanleftbehind (793c4c)

  4. Shot, drawn and quartered is what the libs in my head want to do to me, so that sounds fair. It’s not like Trumpists want the heads of public servants on pikes.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  5. DiGenova really did go off the rails in his devotion to Trump, starting with Ukraine when he worked with Giuliani and Furman and Parnas, and represented Firtash, John Solomon, Shokin and Lutsenko.
    His inclusion on the Elite Strike Force is just more of this insanity.

    Paul Montagu (5b5997)

  6. Election theft sells:

    Trump raises more than $150 million appealing to false election claims

    President Trump’s political operation has raised more than $150 million since Election Day, using a blizzard of misleading appeals about the election to shatter fundraising records set during the campaign, according to people with knowledge of the contributions.

    The influx of political donations is one reason Trump and some allies are inclined to continue a legal onslaught and public affairs blitz focused on baseless claims of election fraud, even as their attempts have repeatedly failed in court and as key states continue to certify wins for President-elect Joe Biden.

    […]

    The surge of donations is largely from small-dollar donors, campaign officials say, tapping into the president’s base of loyal and fervent donors who tend to contribute the most when they feel the president is under siege or facing unfair political attacks. The campaign has sent about 500 post-election fundraising pitches to donors, often with hyperbolic language about voter fraud and the like.

    “I need you now more than ever,” says one recent email that claims to be from the president. “The Recount Results were BOGUS,” another email subject line reads.

    “Our democracy and freedom is at risk like never before, which is why I’m reaching out to you now with an URGENT request,” reads an email to donors from Vice President Pence. “President Trump and I need our STRONGEST supporters, like YOU, to join the Election Defense Task Force. This group will be responsible for DEFENDING the Election from voter fraud, and we really need you to step up to the front lines of this battle.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  7. Put the phone down, Republicans.

    When Trump calls, do as Governor Ducey did… just send him to voicemail.

    Trump is pressuring these Republican governors and Secretaries of State to change their election results. Claiming massive fraud, fraud, fraud where none, none, none exist.

    Presidents before him knew better than to do this. They knew the power of the office and just how destructive that fighting election results or delegitimizing the process could be. So does Trump.

    He just doesn’t care.

    noel (9fead1)

  8. And the great thing for Trumpie fundraising is that he still has more than a month of targets to raise money to pointlessly shoot at. There’s the Electoral College vote (raise money to influence Electors) and even better Congress has to eventually sign off on the EC vote (raise money to pressure representatives and senators [Hey there Rand Paul] to raise objections to the vote and who knows, maybe a Miracle!, get Congress to deadlock and throw it again to state legislatures!).

    Technically this grift ends on Jan. 20, but really can continue since Trump will need your money to ensure that he hires better litigators for the 2024 election.

    It will never, ever, end, not even with His death as his family is prepared to keep it going. Always Be Chiseling.

    Victor (4959fb)

  9. Technically this grift ends on Jan. 20, but really can continue since Trump will need your money to ensure that he hires better litigators for the 2024 election.

    Hopefully he can afford a litigator who doesn’t use spray-on hair color.

    Hoi Polloi (3bc019)

  10. 9.
    It’s not spray-on.

    (You can fast forward to the 55 second mark if you’re a philistine in a hurry.)

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  11. It’s clearly hyperbole.

    But it needs to be. Trump superfans are convinced that the world is flat (it’s not) and that everyone thinks they’re morons or liars for saying it’s flat (They’re right about that). Trump superfans are among the most sensitive demographic in politics today and they need hyperbole to know their feelings are being validated.

    Time123 (306531)

  12. Technically this grift ends on Jan. 20, but really can continue since Trump will need your money to ensure that he hires better litigators for the 2024 election.

    Hopefully he can afford a litigator who doesn’t use spray-on hair color.

    Hoi Polloi (3bc019) — 12/1/2020 @ 4:56 am

    Why would he want one? Rudy is doing great!

    Time123 (306531)

  13. “He should be drawn and quartered. Taken out at dawn and shot.” These words seem to be aimed not only at Krebs, but at everyone who shares Krebs’ thinking, including me and many who post here. Of course, diGenova will say he was just joking, but there is no shortage of crackpots out there who don’t see it as made in jest, and who would only be too willing to take him up on his “joke.”

    Roger (782680)

  14. @13, It’s not a joke, it’s hyperbole.

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  15. More from the Tim Miller link on the fatwa against the lifelong-Republican and Trump appointee, Krebs:

    This is not just a random Parler troll trying to get attention. This is an attorney speaking on behalf of the President of the United States’ re-election campaign. And while it may read like a macabre joke, the direct nature of diGenova’s comments make it impossible to interpret as anything other than a real wish/threat against a public servant for offering truthful testimony.

    Carr responded to the statement with an awkward pause and a laugh and then changed the subject. Some sh*t is so weird that it even makes Newsmax people uncomfortable.

    Dave (1bb933)

  16. Victim. Have you ever seen a politician play the victim as frequently as Trump does?

    Victimhood allows people like him to be justified in their lawbreaking, bullying and con games. The truth is that they are the perps… but playing the injured party is what they do best.

    noel (9fead1)

  17. It’s not fair. It’s rigged. They don’t like me. They spied on me. Witch hunt. Poor, poor Donald.

    He attempted to get a foreign government to investigate his opponent’s family. Trump called for arrests of political opponents. He harasses Republicans like Gov. Kemp and Gov. Ducey who won’t do his dirty work. He wanted the election date changed, votes thrown out and results overturned. He and his “elite strike force team” are threatening those that obey the law.

    He is the one trying to “rig” this election. And he… is nobody’s victim.

    noel (9fead1)

  18. He is the one trying to “rig” this election. And he… is nobody’s victim.

    Every Trump accusation is a confession.

    Dave (1bb933)

  19. Regarding diGenova, I think it is the latter and that he let Trump turn him into a kook. Many of the kooks of today were reasonable and rational conservatives from years back. Trump sycophancy requires a huge price to one’s moral character and intellectual honesty. Many, if not all, took the plunge.

    HCI (92ea66)

  20. This is right up there with Brennan accusing Trump of treason, except that wasn’t shocking cuz we all know he was spot on.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  21. “Mr. President, I understand what you want to do, but you can’t do it that way. It violates the law.” Rex Tillerson

    Have you noticed? Often, if it’s against the law, he won’t do it. He will demand that someone else do it.

    noel (9fead1)

  22. I am with Time123 on this one. It is clearly hyperbole. Whether there is an intent to activate the flying monkeys against Krebs is unclear — they are all locked and loaded and standing by for action regardless.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  23. Joe “taken out at dawn and shot” DiGenova would be the perfect attorney for Steve “heads on pikes” Bannon, in both temperament and morality.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  24. they are all locked and loaded and standing by for action regardless

    Best to keep those windows boarded up.
    .

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  25. This is right up there with Brennan accusing Trump of treason, except that wasn’t shocking cuz we all know he was spot on.

    Nope. Sorry. This is right up there with the hooker moaning “Oooh, baby, you’re the best” to the John while looking at the $20 on the bedstand.

    And that’s what these diGenovas and Hannitys and Carlsons and Dobbses and Ingrahams et al are. W**res. Not kooks. They would not have their gigs at Fox if they were not bought and paid for and moaning the right things.

    nk (1d9030)

  26. I will offer this US Constitutional amendment idea for you to consider. If an amendment were proposed that would limit the pardon power of the President, would it pass? It’s a high bar but I think it would, if limited.

    If the amendment prohibited a President from pardoning people in cases he is personally involved, especially impeachments and investigations into his own personal corruption, or that of his family… and it wouldn’t take effect for four years… who would vote against it?

    noel (9fead1)

  27. nk (1d9030) — 12/1/2020 @ 7:04 am

    I’m going to use than one, nk.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  28. I would consider it the sincerest form of flattery, Paul.

    nk (1d9030)

  29. President Trump says, “Article II (of the Constitution) allows me to do whatever I want.”

    Those words should never be uttered again by a US President. Dangling pardons to associates, especially for direct criminal activity of the President, should be a no-brainer. For starters.

    noel (9fead1)

  30. Sorry, I meant: “Banning the dangling of pardons should be a no-brainer.”

    noel (9fead1)

  31. @28, Hyperbole can have consequences and the presidents attorney saying this is pathetic and worthy of condemnation. But that doesn’t make it a true threat.

    Time123 (306531)

  32. @28: If only Trump and his family got death threats….

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  33. Jeez diGenova.

    There’s hyperbole and then there’s asinine hyperbole.

    whembly (c30c83)

  34. @28, Hyperbole can have consequences and the presidents attorney saying this is pathetic and worthy of condemnation. But that doesn’t make it a true threat.

    Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444. Incitement to imminent lawless action.

    nk (1d9030)

  35. @27

    I will offer this US Constitutional amendment idea for you to consider. If an amendment were proposed that would limit the pardon power of the President, would it pass? It’s a high bar but I think it would, if limited.

    If the amendment prohibited a President from pardoning people in cases he is personally involved, especially impeachments and investigations into his own personal corruption, or that of his family… and it wouldn’t take effect for four years… who would vote against it?

    noel (9fead1) — 12/1/2020 @ 7:10 am

    I would vote against it.

    The head of the Executive needs a power to “check” a the judiciary. The Pardon power is part & parcel of the checks and balances between the Executive and Judicial branch.

    whembly (c30c83)

  36. #34 —

    If only the people Trump singles out as “enemies of the people” got lifetime secret service protection.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  37. As a counter-espionage agency, would CISA have a Double-O or SMERSH section, do you suppose?

    nk (1d9030)

  38. 23. Appalled (1a17de) — 12/1/2020 @ 6:56 am

    I am with Time123 on this one. It is clearly hyperbole.

    Especially because he accuses him not of being evil, but of being stupid.

    The “should” clearly should be taken as meaning “in an ideal world” – and it still doesn’t make any sense. And you obviously can’t do both and he doesn’t say “or”

    These are way outdated British punishments.

    Sammy Finkelman (bbf750)

  39. @28, Hyperbole can have consequences and the presidents attorney saying this is pathetic and worthy of condemnation. But that doesn’t make it a true threat.

    Brandenburg v. Ohio, 395 U.S. 444. Incitement to imminent lawless action.

    nk (1d9030) — 12/1/2020 @ 7:45 am

    IANAL but I think imminent means ‘right here and now’.

    Time123 (cd2ff4)

  40. #40

    Yes — it’s the “He’s so dumb he should just be put out of his misery” palaver that’s common when discussing politics in a bar. I’m not sure the breathless coverage this has been getting is appropriate. (b&P is not wrong when he compares this to Brennan’s lose talk of treason 4 years back)

    The thing is — this kid of talk inspires people to shoot, and if this becomes commonplace, someone is going to act.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  41. In a similar vein as Comrade nk’s view of the right-wing media racket, from The Bulwark:

    The GOP Is a Propaganda Party

    She compares the Hannity’s and Carlson’s to an aquatic parasite rather than a harlot, but the general idea is the same.

    Dave (1bb933)

  42. IANAL but I think imminent means ‘right here and now’.

    Yup. In the prior precedent (no, it’s not a tautology), it was termed “clear and present danger”.

    nk (1d9030)

  43. You got to keep in mind a lot of Noo Yawk Trump coterie are the offspring, neighbors and schoolmates of bagmen and wiseguys. Just imagine when a future candidates’ loyal servants are grandkids and godchildrens of narcos…possibly even…(thunderous sincere applause) Mike Garcia…officially re-elected as us representative from CA’s 25th district!

    urbanleftbehind (ae4f87)

  44. Carlson and many governors have wised up or at least not publicly imbibed the koolaid, if only to advance their prospects for the ’24 nomination.

    urbanleftbehind (ae4f87)

  45. Someone way back did a taxonomy of Trump supporters and one of the seven(?) classes were the “gold diggers”, if anybody remembers it.

    nk (1d9030)

  46. The head of the Executive needs a power to “check” a the judiciary.

    To an extent I respect this position, Whembly. Trump and several other leaders have proven this power is being abused, and I agree with your notion that each branch should check the others.

    What if pardons can only occur in the first three years of an administration? Biden is the president for all intents and purposes. He’s the future. Let him decide if Rudy Giuliani has been oppressed by the judiciary. What if there is a way to rebut a pardon by proving the president had a corrupt interest in a pardon? For example donations or crimes in common. Also, if you have millions of dollars, loeffler money, you probably aren’t being oppressed in our criminal justice system because you have OJ Simpson dream team level defense at your disposal. Perhaps pardons of those who have an income or net worth that’s very high should have their pardons go to a special oversight committee for approval.

    We all know at a common sense level that these aren’t lynching victims.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  47. Giuliani is said to have discussed a possible pardon with Trump
    Rudolph W. Giuliani, President Trump’s lawyer who has led the most extensive efforts to damage his client’s political rivals and undermine the election results, discussed with the president as recently as last week the possibility of receiving a pre-emptive pardon before Mr. Trump leaves office, according to two people told of the discussion.
    ……
    Mr. Giuliani’s potential criminal exposure is unclear. He was under investigation as recently as last summer by federal prosecutors in Manhattan for his business dealings in Ukraine and his role in ousting the American ambassador there, a plot that was at the heart of the impeachment of Mr. Trump.
    ……

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  48. @50

    Sean Hannity Tells Sidney Powell Trump ‘Needs to Pardon His Whole Family and Himself’ Before Leaving Office in January

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 12/1/2020 @ 9:25 am

    When you have the usual lawfareblog and the likes of Andrew Weissmann advocating to unleash lawfare tactics…

    Can you blame Trump?

    whembly (c30c83)

  49. @51 I would love it if he pardoned himself.

    It would be an admission of wrong doing that would damage him politically.
    It would put the pardon into the public conversation.
    It would avoid a long drawn out legal fight about whatever nonsense Trump’s done that we don’t know about.

    Time123 (306531)

  50. @51-
    I do blame Trump.

    Rip Murdock (74ef5d)

  51. And 80M other people.

    Rip Murdock (74ef5d)

  52. And it’s what (wannabe) authoritarians do.

    Rip Murdock (74ef5d)

  53. I’d love it if he pardoned himself so that the Court could say that pardon is unconstitutional (whether I think it is or not, it would be a reasonable check on the executive branch to forbid the most extreme and absurd abuses of powers, similar to how the first amendment isn’t a license to threaten the Ukraine if they don’t help you cheat at elections).

    Dustin (4237e0)

  54. Trump isn’t going to be alive that long anyway. His mental decline has been sharp since around that first debate. Some of his interviews have been weirder. Biden’s “Lincoln over there” joke sailed 100 miles over Trump’s confused head. Trump’s effort to steal the election is stupid. Who would want to be president of a nation in the fractured condition such an election theft would create?

    at this point, he’s being fleeced by yes men (call them gold diggers) who care about nothing. It’s a shame his cult is numerous enough to scare these yes men, like Pence, into avoiding the obvious solution.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  55. Barr: No evidence of fraud that’d change election outcome
    …..
    In an interview with The Associated Press, Barr said U.S. attorneys and FBI agents have been working to follow up specific complaints and information they’ve received, but they’ve uncovered no evidence that would change the outcome of the election.

    “To date, we have not seen fraud on a scale that could have affected a different outcome in the election,” Barr told the AP.

    The comments are especially direct coming from Barr, who has been one of the president’s most ardent allies. Before the election, he had repeatedly raised the notion that mail-in voter fraud could be especially vulnerable to fraud during the coronavirus pandemic as Americans feared going to polls and instead chose to vote by mail.
    …….
    …….“There’s been one assertion that would be systemic fraud and that would be the claim that machines were programmed essentially to skew the election results. And the DHS and DOJ have looked into that, and so far, we haven’t seen anything to substantiate that,” Barr said.

    He said people were confusing the use of the federal criminal justice system with allegations that should be made in civil lawsuits. He said such a remedy for those complaints would be a top-down audit conducted by state or local officials, not the U.S. Justice Department.

    “There’s a growing tendency to use the criminal justice system as sort of a default fix-all, and people don’t like something they want the Department of Justice to come in and ‘investigate,’” Barr said.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  56. @57-
    Trump’s mental decline has been going on longer than that.
    ……

    In interviews Trump gave in the 1980s and 1990s (with Tom Brokaw, David Letterman, Oprah Winfrey, Charlie Rose, and others), he spoke articulately, used sophisticated vocabulary, inserted dependent clauses into his sentences without losing his train of thought, and strung together sentences into a polished paragraph, which — and this is no mean feat — would have scanned just fine in print. This was so even when reporters asked tough questions about, for instance, his divorce, his brush with bankruptcy, and why he doesn’t build housing for working-class Americans.
    …..
    Now, Trump’s vocabulary is simpler. He repeats himself over and over, and lurches from one subject to an unrelated one, as in this answer during an interview with the Associated Press last month:

    “People want the border wall. My base definitely wants the border wall, my base really wants it — you’ve been to many of the rallies. OK, the thing they want more than anything is the wall. My base, which is a big base; I think my base is 45 percent. You know, it’s funny. The Democrats, they have a big advantage in the Electoral College. Big, big, big advantage. … The Electoral College is very difficult for a Republican to win, and I will tell you, the people want to see it. They want to see the wall.”

    Source

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  57. I agree, Rip, he’s shown a lot of that kind of speech stuff.

    I think Trump’s dumber accent is something he developed as his cheesy brand. He reveals a lot of contempt for his supporters.

    But this year has been different. He’s a weak man with a tough job. He’s babbling about household cleaners in human bodies and sensitive to people spotting his diaper. He’s lost so many Americans on his watch, and while his fans demand proof he personally is to blame for each one, the fact is he totally screwed this thing up, frankly in the same way China did.

    I don’t know if he got sick for real, or if that was a way to cover up his confused mental state, but he’s really taken a nosedive. He just can’t think or lead, and no one with the power to protect the country from that situation cares about the country.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  58. Now, Trump’s vocabulary is simpler. He repeats himself over and over,

    I sense he wants to say more, but he can’t remember.

    But he hasn’t deteriorated much in the last four years, although it might be very different if you compare him to the way he was 30 years before. I’d want some examples, though.

    Switching subjects is because he’s run out of things to say on the first subject.

    the fact is he totally screwed this thing up, frankly in the same way China did.

    China claims great success, after an initial spread, in getting rid of the coronavirus by masks and quarantines (of entire cities) and taken all people with the virus away from their families.

    I don’t know if he got sick for real, or if that was a way to cover up his confused mental state

    He got sick, or do you think all the positive tests the White House announced is a hoax> he gor sick and he got cured by Regeneron antibodies and he promised to make it available to everyone, and he chickened out, but they got approved after a bit of a delay, and now what is he doing?

    And what particular thing would be explained away by him having Covod. They didn’t try anything like that.

    No, the antibodies really are a virtual cure. He;s probably telling the truth there, more or less, of what the doctors told him. They had some experience. They saw Covid cases before. The prognosis was not so good.

    Sammy Finkelman (bbf750)

  59. @60-
    As someone on this board have said, every Trump accusation is a confession. Trump’s (and his surrogates) attacks on Biden’s “mental decline” are more a reflection on him than Biden.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  60. He got sick, or do you think all the positive tests the White House announced is a hoax> he gor sick and he got cured by Regeneron antibodies and he promised to make it available to everyone, and he chickened out, but they got approved after a bit of a delay, and now what is he doing?

    All I’m saying is I don’t know. I’m not saying I have evidence of a hoax, but I don’t trust the things the Trump administration says. The announcement came after the worst debate performance I’ve ever seen. Granted, Trump could have gotten sick, recovered, and have some lingering damage that explains what I perceive as decline. I’m not saying that did or didn’t happen.

    when I compare Trump to China, I’m saying he has lied through his teeth saying whatever benefits him and levels the playing field. China didn’t mind if the virus was as bad here as it is there. That’s sociopathic but I think there are people in the USA who would make the same choices. Trump didn’t mind if blue states were hit hard at first, and Kushner helped make that a reality. The similarity is that China and Trump do not think life matters, and are willing to say and do anything. To my perspective, that failure to get honest that no miracle is coming, and just start the hard grueling work in January or February, killed Americans.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  61. (We the People Convention) WTPC Calls for Trump to Declare Limited Martial Law

    Today, Tom Zawistowski, President of the TEA Party affiliated We the People Convention (WTPC) and Executive Director of the Portage County TEA Party, published a full page ad in the Washington Times newspaper demanding that President Trump Invoke limited Martial law in order to allow the U.S. Military to oversee a new free and fair federal election if Legislators, Courts and the Congress do not follow the Constitution.

    Zawistowski said, “We wanted to express our concerns to the President, to the legislators, courts and Congress that We the People will NOT cede our exclusive Constitutional right to elect our Representatives to judges, lawyers, courts, Governors, Secretary’s of State, Congress, corrupt election officials and local politicians, the corrupt media – or Leftist threats of violence! It is OUR EXCLUSIVE RIGHT to elect our President and that sacred right has been infringed by the massive, planned, illegal election fraud conducted by corrupt Democrat/Socialist Party operatives across our nation to steal our vote. We will NOT stand for it.”

    The Ad compares the Extraordinary Executive actions implemented by President Abraham Lincoln in his efforts to save the Union during the Civil War and the literal civil war that is dividing our nation today. Without full confidence that our courts or Congress will indeed follow the 12th Amendment of the Constitution and defend our electoral process, the ad calls upon President Trump, like Lincoln, to exercise the Extraordinary Powers of his office and declare limited Martial Law to temporarily suspend the Constitution and civilian control of these federal elections in order to have the military implement a national re-vote that reflects the true will of the people. Federal candidates only. Paper ballots. No computers. Hand-counted with both parties watching every vote. Only registered voters. Photo ID to prove residence. Conducted safely with everyone wearing masks and six feet apart, just like we did in Ohio.
    …….

    The circus has really come to town now.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  62. The circus has really come to town now.

    The GOP finally is a Big Tent party.

    Dave (1bb933)

  63. Just another talking head lawyer on the TeeVee. It’s not like the guy is an elected official with genuine power snd influence to wield:

    “Bomb, bomb, bomb; bomb-bomb Iran.” – the late John McCain, U.S. Senator, AZ [R] 2007

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  64. Huh…

    Barr has created a Special Counsel for the Durham investigation in October, and kept it from being publicly announced until after the election.

    On the one hand, I’m glad waited till after the election as this would’ve been primo example of the FBI interfering with the elections had they announced it in October.

    On the other, it’s pretty damn crappy to do this to the incoming administration. I wouldn’t be all that upset when Biden is sworn in, he orders the investigation closed.

    whembly (3bda0a)

  65. There’s no reason to think Durham is going to find anything beyond the minor procedural irregularities and bureaucratic snafu’s Horowitz documented a year ago. Biden should wait for Durham to admit that himself.

    His investigation was a con to keep the Infant in Chief happy, just like the attempt to steal the election.

    Dave (1bb933)

  66. @66-
    The yell leaders at our college football games led a “Nuke Iran” during the hostage crisis.

    Rip Murdock (74ef5d)

  67. @66-
    I have no problem with that, as long it is not a one-off operation and the negative consequences are understood.

    Rip Murdock (74ef5d)

  68. Trump Derangement Syndrome seems to affect his supporters more than his opponents.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  69. I wouldn’t be all that upset when Biden is sworn in, he orders the investigation closed.

    Odd, since Trump didn’t have that power. If he did, he certainly would have used it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  70. Odd, since Trump didn’t have that power. If he did, he certainly would have used it.

    He could have fired Mueller, just as Nixon fired Cox. Trump talked a big game, but in the end was a coward. He wasn’t willing to pay the political cost.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  71. @28, Hyperbole can have consequences and the presidents attorney saying this is pathetic and worthy of condemnation. But that doesn’t make it a true threat.

    Tell that to Thomas Becket, after the King suggested that someone ought to rid him of that turbulent priest.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  72. He could have fired Mueller, just as Nixon fired Cox

    But he could not have ended the investigation.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  73. Justice Department investigating potential presidential pardon bribery scheme, court records reveal
    ……
    The case is the latest legal twist in the waning days of President Donald Trump’s administration after several of his top advisers have been convicted of federal criminal charges and as the possibility rises of Trump giving pardons to those who’ve been loyal to him.

    The disclosure is in 20 pages of partially redacted documents made public by the DC District Court on Tuesday afternoon. The records show Chief Judge Beryl Howell’s review in August of a request from prosecutors to access documents obtained in a search as part of a bribery-for-pardon investigation.
    ……
    According to the court records, at the end of this summer, a filter team, used to make sure prosecutors don’t receive tainted evidence that should have been kept from them because it was privileged, had more than 50 digital devices including iPhones, iPads, laptops, thumb drives and computer drives after investigators raided the unidentified offices.

    Prosecutors told the court they wanted permission to the filter team’s holdings. The prosecutors believed the devices revealed emails that showed allegedly criminal activity, including a “secret lobbying scheme” and a bribery conspiracy that offered “a substantial political contribution in exchange for a presidential pardon or reprieve of sentence” for a convicted defendant whose name is redacted, according to the redacted documents.
    ……
    The grand jury investigation also appears to relate to unnamed people acting as unregistered “lobbyists to senior White House officials” as they sought to secure a pardon and use an intermediary to send a bribe, the unsealed court records say.

    Prosecutors hadn’t provided evidence to the judge, however, of any direct payment, and instead showed evidence that a person was seeking clemency because of past and future political contributions.

    The investigators indicated in court that they intended to “confront” three people with the communications and complete their investigation.
    …….
    Open for business!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  74. 68. Dave (1bb933) — 12/1/2020 @ 3:03 pm

    There’s no reason to think Durham is going to find anything beyond the minor procedural irregularities and bureaucratic snafu’s Horowitz documented a year ago….His investigation was a con to keep the Infant in Chief happy, just like the attempt to steal the election.

    I think that, in the beginning, the whole Trump Russia collusion investigation was probably an attempt by the FBI to keep Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (whom they would have understood to probably be a stand-in for the Hillary Clinton campaign) happy.

    Although I don;t know if you could expect Durham to find evidence of that, unless maybe he asks the right people thw right questions.

    There is this news article, which was actually included in the Carter Page FISA warrant application:
    (so this judges knew of the political importance of this warrant.)

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/u-s-intel-officials-probe-ties-between-trump-adviser-and-kremlin-175046002.html

    The activities of Trump adviser Carter Page, who has extensive business interests in Russia, have been discussed with senior members of Congress during recent briefings about suspected efforts by Moscow to influence the presidential election, the sources said. After one of those briefings, Senate minority leader Harry Reid wrote FBI Director James Comey, citing reports of meetings between a Trump adviser (a reference to Page) and “high ranking sanctioned individuals” in Moscow over the summer as evidence of “significant and disturbing ties” between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin that needed to be investigated by the bureau.

    Some of those briefed were “taken aback” when they learned about Page’s contacts in Moscow, viewing them as a possible back channel to the Russians that could undercut U.S. foreign policy, said a congressional source familiar with the briefings but who asked for anonymity due to the sensitivity of the subject. The source added that U.S. officials in the briefings indicated that intelligence reports about the adviser’s talks with senior Russian officials close to President Vladimir Putin were being “actively monitored and investigated.”

    A senior U.S. law enforcement official did not dispute that characterization when asked for comment by Yahoo News. “It’s on our radar screen,” said the official about Page’s contacts with Russian officials. “It’s being looked at.”

    Sammy Finkelman (bbf750)

  75. The Guy Appointed to Investigate the Russia Investigation Isn’t Even Eligible for the Job
    Attorney General Bill Barr’s move to appoint John Durham special counsel appears to have a glaring flaw, former prosecutors and a top Congressional Democrat said: Durham doesn’t appear to be eligible.

    Federal regulations state that a special counsel is supposed to hail from outside the government. But Durham appears to still be serving as the top federal prosecutor in Connecticut.
    ……..
    …….. [A] prominent House Democrat, Rep. Jerrold Nadler of New York, immediately said Durham is nothing of the kind.

    “On its face, this appointment appears to violate the Department’s own regulations—which stipulate, among other requirements, that ‘the Special Counsel shall be selected from outside the United States Government,’” Nadler, chairman of the influential House Judiciary Committee, wrote in a statement. “The sitting U.S. Attorney for the District of Connecticut is simply not eligible for the job.”

    Two former prosecutors told VICE News they agreed with Nadler’s assessment, based on the language of the regulations. The text, which is contained in 28 CFR 600.3, clearly undermines Durham’s eligibility, said Jill Wine-Banks, a former member of the prosecutor team in the Watergate scandal of the 1970s.
    …….
    Durham’s apparent ineligibility means a future Attorney General could dismiss Durham or choose another candidate, said Nick Ackerman, a former federal prosecutor for the Southern District of New York.
    ……..
    The gang that couldn’t shoot straight.

    Rip Murdock (74ef5d)

  76. When Sean Hannity tells his audience that Trump needs to pardon himself and his family, isn’t he saying that the entire justice system is corrupt? Now, add that to his insistence that the elections are rigged. The FBI and CIA can’t be trusted. The media is fake. Well, you just can’t rely on democracy.

    In Trump We Trust.

    noel (9fead1)

  77. whembly writes: “The Pardon power is part & parcel of the checks and balances between the Executive and Judicial branch.”

    I can understand your view of this but where are the checks and balances on pardon abuses? Putting unlimited power in the hands of one politician seems far more likely to result in wrongdoing than relying on the judiciary in most of these matters.

    noel (9fead1)

  78. The quality of mercy is not strained;
    It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
    Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest;
    It blesseth him that gives and him that takes:
    ‘T is mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes
    The throned monarch better than his crown:
    His sceptre shows the force of temporal power,
    The attribute to awe and majesty,
    Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
    But mercy is above this sceptred sway;
    It is enthronèd in the hearts of kings,
    It is an attribute to God himself;
    And earthly power doth then show likest God’s
    When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, [Noel],
    Though justice be thy plea, consider this,
    That, in the course of justice, none of us
    Should see salvation: we do pray for mercy;
    And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
    The deeds of mercy. — William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice

    nk (1d9030)

  79. @75

    He could have fired Mueller, just as Nixon fired Cox

    But he could not have ended the investigation.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 12/1/2020 @ 5:02 pm

    Yes, he could’ve had ended the investigation on day one. He’s the boss.

    Its just that, Trump wasn’t willing to pay the political cost. Could you imagine the media sh!tstorm? And Congress may consider that impeachment worthy.

    whembly (62ebef)

  80. @80

    whembly writes: “The Pardon power is part & parcel of the checks and balances between the Executive and Judicial branch.”

    I can understand your view of this but where are the checks and balances on pardon abuses? Putting unlimited power in the hands of one politician seems far more likely to result in wrongdoing than relying on the judiciary in most of these matters.

    noel (9fead1) — 12/2/2020 @ 5:58 am

    POTUS’ pardon power is near plenary. In the Constitution, it literally says that it could NOT be used to stop impeachment. For all other non-impeachment cases, at least under the Constitution, the pardon power could be used.

    The “check” on pardon abuses is mainly political:
    -voters may hold it against in next election, or even against POTUS’ own party
    -impeachment
    -comity between branches may be lost

    What’s interesting is that for most President, the controversial pardons occurred during the lame duck period, or even the last days of the presidency. Trump didn’t care, so it may have impacted his re-election chance if someone was animated about it. (I wonder in Arizona, the folks voted against Trump because of his pardon of Arapio…).

    The thing to keep in mind about the Pardon power, is that it’s not only a check against the judiciary… it’s ALSO the check against Congress as it is Congress who makes the laws, and the Judiciary to interpret the law. If the President disagrees with said law and/or disagrees with a court’s ruling, his Pardon power could be used provided that the President implicitly accepts the political costs.

    whembly (62ebef)

  81. Thanks for the reminder, whembly. I do recall that pardons are not to be used for impeachment.

    I believe that the pardon power is far too broad. By the looks of the headlines, we may be seeing more about these abuses in the near future. It appears that there are some pardon/bribery stories in the works.

    noel (9fead1)

  82. Mercy should not be confused with corruption.

    This President claims that Article 2 gives him absolute power to do whatever he wants. And he has expansive pardoning powers. What could possibly go wrong?

    Absolute power. What does that do again?

    noel (9fead1)

  83. I would guess that the average Joe has virtually no chance of receiving a Presidential pardon. But what about the well connected?

    noel (9fead1)

  84. Absolute power. What does that do again?

    Lose an election?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  85. I would guess that the average Joe has virtually no chance of receiving a Presidential pardon. But what about the well connected?

    The DOJ maintains an Office of the Pardon Attorney for the average Joe, with a Senate-confirmed head. The well-connected, and well-endowed (think Denise Rich and Kim Kardashian) can get the President’s ear directly but, really, how many of them are there?

    And, come on, we’re talking about the guy (and next term likely gal) who can fire off 4,000 nuclear warheads. Trusting them not to abuse the pardon power more than is seemly is a pretty small thing, I think.

    nk (1d9030)

  86. @78 It does seem improper for Barr to appoint Durham, however that regulation isn’t enforcible as it’s the AG’s call. See sec. 600.10 of the SCO regs, in Title 28 of the Code of Federal Regulations… in which that section explicitly provide that any failure by the DOJ to comply with their strict terms creates no enforceable rights or objections for any third party.

    Just as when acting-AG Rosenstein appointed Mueller to SCO, Mueller should not have been appointed because there was neither a strong factual basis for a criminal investigation, nor was there going to be a conflict that would have prevented the DOJ from investigating the matter in the normal course. Again, any objection to this was not enforcible as it’s literally the AG’s call.

    However, I’m not on board with Durham appointment as he shouldn’t have been appointed in the first place, due to the fact that it obviously violates the spirit of the DOJ regulations AND it’s used to try to handcuff the incoming administration. (an administration that I vehemently am against politically).

    whembly (62ebef)

  87. I think that we are about to find out how dirty the pardon process has become.

    noel (9fead1)

  88. You need to use your influence to tell the President that he lost the election, beer ‘n pretzels. I believe you already.

    noel (9fead1)

  89. I love the Shakespeare quote, nk.

    Were you an English major, by chance?

    norcal (a5428a)

  90. Criminal Justice, with a second major in Psychology, then law school, norcal, but I’ve always enjoyed words in a row.

    nk (1d9030)

  91. This discussion, about pardons, is another example of the insidious effect of a syphilitic cow like Trump pissing in the American milk bucket. It makes some people want to shut down the 244-year old dairy and raise soy beans.

    nk (1d9030)

  92. “Grow” soy beans, I mean. You know, for soy milk.

    nk (1d9030)

  93. A firing squad is certainly becoming the only way to go for executions given all the drama surrounding injections, suffering and corporations refusing to sell product to be used in injection based execution.
    The US has ammunition for 100’s of years of firing squads for death penalty criminals (assuming Tlaib never becomes President), my favored method would be a minimal human involved AI minigun burst of 1-2 seconds. 6000 rounds per minute of 7.62 outta do it, and no need for the firing squad to get PSTD.

    steveg (43b7a5)


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