Patterico's Pontifications

11/7/2020

Weekend Open Thread; AKA The “Biden Has Officially Won” Thread

Filed under: General — Dana @ 7:54 am



[guest post by Dana]

Here are a few news items to chew over. Feel free to share anything that you think might interest readers. Please remember to include links.

UPDATE: ABC, NBC, CNN, FOX, Decision Desk HQ, AP, and CBS announce that Biden has won the White House.

First news item

Good morning from MAGA world:

Untitled

Second news item

Sure, keep on mocking mask-wearers:

President Donald Trump’s chief of staff, Mark Meadows, has contracted coronavirus, according to people familiar with the matter, adding to the outbreaks connected to the White House.

Meadows tested positive for the virus on Wednesday, according to one of the people, though it wasn’t clear whether he had developed symptoms of Covid-19, the disease caused by the virus.

..

Some White House aides were aware earlier in the week that Meadows had become infected but were told to keep it quiet, several people said.

Related:

U.S. Reps. Matt Gaetz and Michael Waltz have tested positive for coronavirus as President Donald Trump‘s inner circle faces another outbreak of the infectious disease, according to reports.

Third news item

Welcome to Congress:

Newly elected Marjorie Taylor Greene, a supporter of President Donald Trump and the QAnon conspiracy theory, received a stern Twitter talking-to Friday from Rep. Dan Crenshaw (R-TX). Greene had accused Crenshaw of failing to support the commander in chief’s flailing efforts to substantiate his claims of widespread voter fraud and a theft of the presidential election. Crenshaw had said Republicans should accept the results of the vote counts. Greene wrote on Twitter, “The time to STAND UP for @realdonaldTrump is RIGHT NOW! Republicans can’t back down. This loser mindset is how the Democrats win.” Crenshaw quote-tweeted her and said, “Did you even read past the first sentence? Or are you just purposely lying so you can talk tough? No one said give up. I literally said investigate every irregularity and use the courts. You’re a member of Congress now, Marjorie. Start acting like one.”

Fourth news item

Nancy Pelosi facing rebellion in the ranks:

House Democrats savaged Speaker Nancy Pelosi in a family venting session that featured yelling and crying lawmakers in the wake of the party’s losses on Thursday.

And the drama on the three-hour conference call played out live on Twitter, as details were leaked to the Capitol Hill press corps, who tweeted all the wild details.

The call was billed as a ‘family session’ but became a bitch fest between the liberal wing of the party and its more moderate members – all of whom were disappointed by the Democrats failure to win more seats. The party expected to pick up five or more on election night.

Fifth news item

Consistency in their rejection:

Since Election Day, the Trump campaign has brought a series of lawsuits around the country in an effort to find a path to reelection, but four judges in different states have now weighed in with striking consistency and similar language — finding there is no sufficient evidence to back the claims.

This week, judges in Nevada, Georgia, Pennsylvania and Michigan have rejected the campaign’s efforts to halt the counting process, if only temporarily, or alter it in some way based on shaky allegations of improper or nefarious conduct.

So far, the localized incidents that the campaign has used in an effort to elevate allegations of misconduct have been unable to convince judges to grant the campaign the large-scale relief it is seeking. The president and his allies have nonetheless continued to insist they had evidence of misconduct at press conferences and on social media.

Sixth news item

The times they are a-changing:

The United Arab Emirates announced on Saturday a major overhaul of the country’s Islamic personal laws, allowing unmarried couples to cohabitate, loosening alcohol restrictions and criminalizing so-called “honor killings.”

The broadening of personal freedoms reflects the changing profile of a country that has sought to bill itself as a Westernized destination for tourists, fortune-seekers and businesses despite its Islamic legal code that has previously triggered court cases against foreigners and outrage in their home countries…

Traditional Islamic values remain strong in the federation of seven desert sheikhdoms. Even so, Annelle Sheline, a Middle East research fellow at the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft, wrote on Twitter that the drastic changes “can happen without too much popular resistance because the population of citizens, especially in the main cities of Dubai and Abu Dhabi, is so small.”

Seventh news item

Where things stand 09:15 AM EST:

Joe Biden is up by…

— 28,833 VOTES in Pennsylvania.

— 7,248 VOTES in Georgia.

— 22,657 VOTES in Nevada.

— 29,861 VOTES in Arizona.

Eighth news item

The purge begins:

The Trump administration abruptly dumped the leaders of three agencies that oversee the nuclear weapons stockpile, electricity and natural gas regulation, and overseas aid during the past two days, drawing a rebuke from a prominent Republican senator for one of the decisions.

The White House declined comment on the firings, and declined to say whether there would be more in the wake of the election.

NOTE:

Lisa Gordon-Hagerty, administrator of the National Nuclear Security Administration, the first woman to oversee the agency in charge of the nuclear stockpile. She was required to resign on Friday.

Related:

If President Trump is on his way out the door, he’ll have almost limitless power to reward his friends, settle scores and stack boards and commissions with his allies during his final days in office.

After defeat, there are no constraints on ordinary presidential powers between the election and the inauguration. Trump has shown a willingness to stretch the norms of what has been done and what can be done. So expect him to go out the way he came in.

Executive clemency: Presidents can wipe away or minimize past offenses with pardons, commutations, remissions or reprieves — like when Bill Clinton pardoned donor Marc Rich despite indictments over tax evasion and wire fraud.

“Burrowing in”: Presidents can convert political appointees to career employees, and under certain circumstances, presidents can make recess appointments so personnel can serve into the succeeding administration.

“Midnight rulemaking”: Outgoing presidents often rush to finalize the rules that administrations write to enact laws passed by Congress.

“Presidents who are leaving office usually do not feel wholly unrestrained; in fact, there is now a more immediate and pressing restraint: ‘What will history think of me?’” says John Burke, a retired University of Vermont professor who specialized in presidential transitions.

“It might be tempting for him to fire those he deems disloyal, for example, but it will not serve him well over the long run. Pettiness is an expensive exercise.”

Hm, Trump petty??

Have a great weekend.

–Dana

811 Responses to “Weekend Open Thread; AKA The “Biden Has Officially Won” Thread”

  1. Good morning.

    Dana (6995e0)

  2. Trump already knows what history will think of him: The greatest president ever! By a LOT.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  3. mr roy cohn who taught president donald what it means to be a mans man wouldnt have let a few fake ballots stand between failmerica and greatness

    Dave (1bb933)

  4. Clinton’s people allegedly stole keys off of keyboards before leaving the WH.

    Biden’s people will find keyboards with the CAP LOCK keys glued down.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  5. Random Thoughts:

    I don’t see any Republican having the pull to convince Trump it’s over. Not McConnell, not Mc Carthy, not Meadows. The only one who never got bad treatment from Donnie was Pence. If Pence could get the three Trump brats aside with Melina he could convince them to talk to Trump.

    If this was fixed as Trump and his flying monkeys say then why didn’t the Democrats take the Senate?

    I suppose his thinking is Trump can claim the votes were fraudulent because he ordered the Post Office not to deliver them.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  6. Chinese Communist Party Propagandist Says He Can’t Wait For Biden To Be President

    A prominent Chinese Communist Party (CCP) propagandist says he is looking forward to former Vice President Joe Biden’s presidency Friday, hours after Biden took leads in several key uncalled states.

    The propagandist, Chen Weihua, who works as a columnist at the CCP-controlled outlet China Daily, said President Donald Trump and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo “slander” China on a “daily” basis. He added that he expects a Biden presidency will be kinder to China and won’t “be that type of lowlife.”

    The intelligence community under Trump announced earlier in 2020 that China preferred Biden to win the presidential election, while Russia preferred Trump to remain in office.

    “We assess that China prefers that President Trump – whom Beijing sees as unpredictable – does not win reelection,” William Evanina, Director of the National Counterintelligence and Security Center said in a statement at the time. “China has been expanding its influence efforts ahead of November 2020 to shape the policy environment in the United States, pressure political figures it views as opposed to China’s interests, and deflect and counter criticism of China.”

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  7. Item 9: Joe Biden is the president-elect.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  8. I would like to see the Senate investigate how China let this virus spread, and whether they intended it to do so to avoid economic disadvantage and/or destabilize Western democracies.

    I would hope that Biden would also be concerned about this, but he seems fairly compromised when it comes to China. Maybe he can make Hunter the new ambassador.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  9. We owe the Chinese over a trillion dollars. It should be no surprise that they prefer to have a sane person in charge.

    Dave (1bb933)

  10. CNN and NBC call the race for Biden.

    Dana (6995e0)

  11. Trump is officially a one-term loser.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  12. Joe Biden is the president-elect.

    Probably. Although I don’t see the hurry. I’d be very careful of making any assertion about the vote that might be reversed, as that would feed the troll in the WH.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  13. Why hasn’t NC been called for Trump? I understand they are waiting for late-arriving mail ballots, but there can’t be that many…

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  14. When we rightfully start to criticize Donald Trump for taking petulant steps between now and inauguration day as described in Item Eight above, let’s not forget that Barack Obama was a master at burrowing in his appointees on the way out the door. I’m not going to lose a whole lot of sleep if Trump does the same to Slow Joe.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  15. The Republican party mutually pledged “our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor” to Trump and it’s foolishness won’t be forgotten. I immensely enjoy watching Fox news heads explode knowing that one pandemic will be gone on the 20th of January.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  16. Trump is officially a one-term loser.

    Do your playground taunts extend to zero-term losers Romney and McCain?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  17. Associated Press now too.

    Although I don’t see the hurry.

    By law, the transition process is determined by the GAO determining the “apparently successful candidate“.

    While of course nobody should call things prematurely if the outcome is in doubt, there are good practical reasons not to draw things out beyond the point when it isn’t.

    Dave (1bb933)

  18. #RESIST

    #NOTMYPRESIDENT

    “Viva le Resistance!”

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  19. @ 17 beer and pretzels

    If playground taunts bother you why do you support Donnie? That was his entire intellectual argument to anyone who said something he didn’t like.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  20. How to Ensure That Trump Preserves Official Documents
    …….
    …….[I]t’s not at all implausible that the Biden administration—and a Democrat-controlled House of Representatives—will probe the excesses of the Trump administration. What will they need to do this? Access to presidential records held by the White House and federal records held by the relevant agencies.

    But there’s one problem: Trump officials may seek to destroy sensitive documents during the lame-duck period. The prospect of Trump administration officials destroying documents during the transition has already been raised by oversight groups and the media. And those concerns may be well-founded. The Trump administration has exhibited a general disdain for the rule of law and is unlikely to be a cooperative partner in the transition. More than that, the administration has steadfastly resisted oversight efforts to date, and even prior to the transition, there have been several reports about the Trump White House failing to comply with the preservation requirements of the Presidential Records Act.
    ……….

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  21. Do your playground taunts extend to zero-term losers Romney and McCain?

    Here’s the deal: McCain and Romney lost to the most gifted retail politician since Reagan.

    Trump – the incumbent – lost to Joe Freakin Biden.

    Dave (1bb933)

  22. I think we should retire all of that Resistance stuff and instead dub ourselves the Dissidents. Like the Dissidents in the Soviet Union, we demand to be able to freely speak our minds, we won’t be bullied into believing whatever mandatory groupthink is all the rage in entertainment, academia, and the media, and we aren’t going to just blindly accept the word of the “experts” without requiring them to show their work.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  23. mr. president-for-74-more days donald trump, who has squandered his resistance for a pocketful of rubles such are promises, is not likely to meaningfully affect the function of government in said 74 days than he was in the preceding four years

    because once an incompetent baboon, always an incompetent baboon

    mr. soon-will-be-president joseph biden, who likes long cool women in or out of a black dress, should have hazmat teams disinfect the White House thoroughly before he moves in though

    and bring his own towels and linen

    nk (1d9030)

  24. Donald Trump Confronts a New Label: Loser

    “I win, I win, I always win. In the end I always win,” Donald Trump once said. Now, though, for the first time in his life, in a public and historic way, he has lost.
    ……
    For a half a century, time and again, Trump was able to fail and yet persuade the world that he hadn’t. He shirked personal bankruptcy by shunting to others the financial wreckage in his wake, fogged over defeats by insisting they were not, developed over time an armor of seeming untouchability, benefiting from people failing to act who could have held him to account — lenders, regulators, prosecutors and political power brokers. In this election, however, hundreds of millions of voters have done what all of them did not, making Joe Biden the next president and saddling Trump with a decision not as decisive as some pundits had predicted but nonetheless a loss.

    ………His unappeasable need for affirmation, adoration and attention inhibited him from adding to his base of ardent supporters; it also led to the constant churn and uncertainty of his White House, as he dismissed those in the administration willing to push back and promoted the yes-men who were content to “let Trump be Trump.” His abiding conviction in the utility of division and chaos led to a whirl of staff turnover and a cascade of head-spinning feuds and inflammatory tweets that unnerved and exhausted a larger and larger share of the population as well as a share of his Washington allies. And his obsession with blind positivity, with image over reality, with the flouting of fact — his congenital unwillingness to share any credit or take any blame, his practically pathological commitment to putting up a tough front — all of it prevented him from demonstrating sufficient empathy to acknowledge the sweeping pain of the coronavirus pandemic that overshadowed his final year in office. In the end, the problem for Trump was “his Richter scale narcissism,” in the words of biographer Tim O’Brien. “If the only person you care about is yourself,” he said, “you can’t do things for other people.”
    ………..

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  25. @17, No. Playground taunts are reserved for garbage people. Romney and McCain were competent and honest.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  26. *any more* likely i mean

    nk (1d9030)

  27. Do your playground taunts extend to zero-term losers Romney and McCain?

    Grow a thicker skin, beer.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  28. So, as far as that prediction contest goes, I think I was fairly close:

    1. Final tally in the House: D: 225 R: 210 (R gain of 13, due to untenable wins in 2018)
    2. Final tally in the Senate: 50-50
    3. Biggest Congressional upset: Young Kim in CA-39
    4. Congressional race that is expected to be close but won’t be: CA-21
    5. Brightest star emerging from this election: The Death Star
    6. Career that is pretty much over after this election: anyone named Trump
    7. Final electoral college tally: 291-247, with Biden taking PA and AZ.
    8. Earliest date that the winner of the Presidential contest will be accurately declared and by whom: Thursday

    1. GOP gain looks like 11, not 13. Final numbers off due to vacancies.
    2. Now 50-48 with two run-offs.
    3. Nailed it. Young Kim flipped a “safe” seat.
    4. GOP candidate leading by 4 points, race not yet called.
    5. Nothing else is covered in glory.
    6. True (bigly), and getting truer daily.
    7. OK, off here. 306-232, but the two states I called (and said they’d be late) are spot on. NV, too.
    8. I am sure that some called it by Thursday, accurately. Several people here, such as Dave and Paul. Probably our host.

    Anyone else got a better claim?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  29. [I]t’s not at all implausible that the Biden administration—and a Democrat-controlled House of Representatives—will probe the excesses of the Trump administration.

    It’s not at all implausible that the Dodgers won the WS last month.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  30. @24, Rob, at least one part of that is misleading. MI requires all absentee votes be received by Election Day at 8 pm. Post Mark isn’t a factor.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  31. I’ve updated the post with the announcement that Biden has won the White House.

    Dana (6995e0)

  32. I missed GA and one of the CDs.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  33. Biden and Harris hold coronavirus meetings with public health experts.

    Trump goes golfing.

    Dave (1bb933)

  34. BnP @31-
    Actually I don’t think the Biden Administration will investigate and/or prosecute anyone in the Trump Administration. Succeeding administrations rarely have investigated their predecessors.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  35. YOU”RE FIRED !

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  36. I missed GA and one of the CDs.

    I had FL/NC and GA backwards. I don’t think I have a better claim.

    Dave (1bb933)

  37. Donald firing himself.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  38. Here’s the deal: McCain and Romney lost to the most gifted retail politician since Reagan.

    McCain was responsible for his own loss. Romney had some rather bad luck (hurricanes, feckless NJ governors, a debate set-up with a dishonest moderator) AND a solid opponent who managed to get his approval rating out of the gutter for the two weeks preceding the election.

    If Romney had been up against Hillary or Biden, it would have been a cakewalk. Trump was the only candidate with a solid chance to lose in 2016 and 2020.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  39. FoxNews jumps off the Trump Train too.

    Dave (1bb933)

  40. Benjamin Dixon
    @BenjaminPDixon

    The Lincoln Project got $67,000,000 to do literally nothing and the Black organizers that helped Biden win probably are short on rent this month.
    __ _

    Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
    @AOC
    US House candidate, NY-14

    It’s not too late for them to do the right thing. Lincoln Project should take the L and publicly pledge to give a lot of their fundraising to the people who actually made a big difference.
    __ _

    Keith Edwards [Lincoln Project]
    @keithedwards
    ·
    That’s a funny way of saying thank you.

    We’ll be continuing the fight against Trumpism in Georgia. Hope to see you there.
    __ _

    Remus Remington
    @RzNBA23
    ·
    Imagine being shocked that the socialist asks you to share all your money. They didn’t see this coming?

    _

    Probably don’t want to shake LP down till they go full Never-Trumper and flip the Senate.
    _

    harkin (8fadc8)

  41. Last time a Republican exited the WH, we were left with a Dem super majority, a war mess, John Roberts, the Great Recession and a Dow crash.

    Even being hamstrung by DontCallItWuhanFlu, you did good Mr. President. Still a Senate majority, no wars, a stable SCOTUS majority, and the Dow up 10,000.

    Congratulations, Mr. Trump. And congrats to his voters. You’re welcome.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  42. More Americans are dying from CV-19 every week than died in 20 years of Afghanistan and Iraq combined.

    Dave (1bb933)

  43. Na,na,na,na hey,hey GOODBY!

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  44. Rupert Murdoch-owned US outlets turn on Trump, urging him to act with ‘grace’
    Multiple Rupert Murdoch-owned conservative media outlets in the United States have shifted their messaging in a seeming effort to warn readers and viewers that Donald Trump may well have lost the presidential election.

    The new messaging appears to be closely coordinated, and it includes an appeal to Trump to preserve his “legacy” by showing grace in defeat. The message is being carried on Fox News and in the Wall Street Journal and the New York Post – all outlets avidly consumed by Trump himself, especially Fox.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  45. No beer, he was the worst president in our nation’s history. Inflation from his insane spending will surely send the DOW to the sky, but it will also send the price of a gallon of milk to the sky. He failed in all his promises. There’s no budget reform, no transparent government, no peace, no defeat of ISIS or other thugs around the world, no wall. In fact, we’ve moved far backwards on immigration, spending, and national prestige. We are not as safe, healthy, or good.

    Call it Kung Flu if that makes you feel better, excuses are pathetic. He could have been reelected easily had he handled that crisis with honesty and courage, instead of like a lying coward.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  46. More Americans are dying from CV-19 every week than died in 20 years of Afghanistan and Iraq combined.

    Just as with CV deaths, only American war deaths matter, eh Dave?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  47. Nevada called for Biden by the AP.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  48. Oh, he’s going to “preserve his legacy,” alright.

    Every dishonest jot and corrupt tittle of it…

    Dave (1bb933)

  49. Actually I don’t think the Biden Administration will investigate and/or prosecute anyone in the Trump Administration. Succeeding administrations rarely have investigated their predecessors.

    Agreed. This is so stupid an idea that it’s a job for Congress.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  50. President Wile E. Coyote, Stable Genius, was outsmarted by an inanimate speck of RNA…

    Dave (1bb933)

  51. Biden and Harris hold coronavirus meetings with public health experts.

    Solutions so far:
    1. Live in a bunker.
    2. Get food delivered from “some Black woman” who can’t do #1
    3. Federal mask mandate… oh wait, we can’t do that.
    4. Experts and stuff.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  52. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
    @AOC
    US House candidate, NY-14

    It’s not too late for them to do the right thing. Lincoln Project should take the L and publicly pledge to give a lot of their fundraising to the people who actually made a big difference.

    God bless our favorite niece for actually believing that money hasn’t already long ago been flushed down the toilet.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  53. Sorry, l0sers, this game is going into overtime:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H10wZ4SszM

    Midnight Joementum (7d74a0)

  54. Solutions so far:

    Yeah, maybe it’s time to think outside the box:

    5. Leadership

    Dave (1bb933)

  55. I’m already enjoying the next four years.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  56. I do think we need to tear China a new assh0le for their initial lies about Covid, right up through their current lies about Covid. Or does anyone think that their reported fatality rate of 0.3/100K is accurate? The US rate is 200 times higher and there is no indication that Asian ancestry confers an immunity.

    I really don’t care what claims they make about containing it — nobody is that good at controlling people — although maybe they just shoot all the patients and mark the cause of death up to “trauma.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  57. I really don’t care what claims they make about containing it — nobody is that good at controlling people — although maybe they just shoot all the patients and mark the cause of death up to “trauma.”

    I know for a fact – from talking to people I work with who returned to China – that they did put anyone entering the country into two-week enforced quarantine.

    And what about Taiwan? Are they lying too, like their communist cousins?

    I don’t know if it’s still the case, but right before the election there was a story that there hadn’t been a single locally transmitted case of COVID in Taiwan for 200 days.

    South Korea has done almost as well.

    Dave (1bb933)

  58. There’s the over/under on when Trump will concede, and here’s another: How soon Trump declare the election was stolen.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  59. > he was the worst president in our nation’s history.

    much as I hate Trump, I think that honor still goes to Buchanan.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  60. Trump disputes Biden’s victory and says he does not believe the election is over.
    President Trump on Saturday issued a statement challenging Joseph R. Biden’s win in the presidential campaign, accusing the Democrat of falsely claiming victory and criticizing the media for projecting the race before all votes were counted.
    …….
    “We all know why Joe Biden is rushing to falsely pose as the winner, and why his media allies are trying so hard to help him: they don’t want the truth to be exposed,” Mr. Trump said.

    In the statement, Mr. Trump also said that his campaign would turn to the courts as soon as Monday to “ensure election laws are fully upheld and the rightful winner is seated.” His campaign has already brought lawsuits in several battleground states, but that effort has largely failed to gain traction in the courts.
    ……..
    Who wants to be the Trump staffer to tell him it really is over? Interesting factoid-48 years ago today Biden was elected to his first term in the Senate.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  61. I note that two of the 3 Democrat House “flips” (NC2 and NC6) were due to a NC state court ordering a remap of NC congressional districts in 2019, due to a successful anti-gerrymander lawsuit. Those districts, once close, are now D+30.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  62. KM @58-I do think we need to tear China a new assh0le for their initial lies about Covid, right up through their current lies about Covid. Or does anyone think that their reported fatality rate of 0.3/100K is accurate?

    Does it really matter? Shouldn’t we be focusing our attention on our own pandemic? How cooperative do you think China would be in any investigation? It’s just a distraction.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  63. much as I hate Trump, I think that honor still goes to Buchanan.

    Indeed, so long as no civil war breaks out.

    Also contending are Fillmore, Pierce, Tyler, WH Harrison, A Johnson and Harding, who make up the traditional cellar.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  64. One-term Trump!
    One-term Trump!
    One-term Trump!
    Nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah, nyah!
    Lewser! Lewser! Lewser!

    We already knew it anyway.

    nk (1d9030)

  65. Thing is, comrades, when the cell block boss comes up to you, and he’s Donald Trump, and he says “You can ‘shower’ with me or you can ‘shower’ with …” and points to Kamala Harris, the choice is easy, and at many more levels than being a confident heterosexual too.

    nk (1d9030)

  66. It’s just a distraction.

    No, it is not. It is needed so that next time (and there will BE a next time) China doesn’t allow the problem to leave its borders, and does everything it possibly can do to keep the world informed.

    Trump and others have gone on about how they “stopped plane travel from China.” Wrong question. Why didn’t CHINA stop plane travel from China? They knew first, and chose instead to lie. They closed down internal travel, yet allowed people from affected areas to travel internationally.

    The main defense the world has against pandemics is information. There are treaties — which China signed — that obligate them to inform the WHO and other nations, to allow in qualified personnel to monitor any new virus. Yet not only did they stonewall the CDC, they lied and lied and lied, even internally. Doctors who spoke about it were censored, or worse.

    We here basically threw Trump out of office for his inability to perform, and his lies to cover that up. But China needs to correct ITS behavior and looking the other way, or saying “oh, that’s all in the past” just means that they will do the same thing next time.

    Just like they did this time after lying about SARS, and getting away with it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  67. It’s kind of hard to assess WHH’s performance as President.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  68. I would hope that, now that Trump is defeated, we can take our partisan blinders off and look at what China did objectively. Because what they did killed millions. Filing charges of mass murder and “crimes against humanity” against Xi in the World Court would be a good start.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  69. Americans no longer wish to be entertained. They wish to be governed.

    Glorious.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  70. It’s kind of hard to assess WHH’s performance as President.

    His first and largely only decision was catastrophic. Not only to him, but it got the worthless John Tyler (“His Accidency” into office.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  71. BTW, I’m not thrilled that Biden won, although he’s less worse than Trump the zero-character, mentally-unhinged f*cking moron.
    If there’s an emotion that I have right now, it’s pissed-offedness that Trump was nominated in 2016 by a plurality of my party in the first place. Any other 2016 nominee would have beat Hillary, would have presided over a prosperous economy and would have handled the coronavirus responsibly, and I’m confident that we’d celebrating President Not Trump’s second-term victory right now instead of losing the White House.
    But this is the best outcome for the GOP and traditional conservatism. We kept our Senate majority, we narrowed Pelosi’s House majority, we have a solidly conservative Supreme Court, and we got rid of political smegma in the White House. On the Supreme Court, Trump gets credit for working off that Federalist Society list, and McConnell gets credit for pushing his judicial nominees through.
    Going forward, I’ll criticize Biden for his wrong and stupid decisions and statements, and I may give him credit if he does or says something that is not wrong or stupid, just like with any other president. In that spirit, Biden is credited for running a campaign that was just good enough.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  72. @71. Really? The Empire Strikes Back

    The saga continues: ideological conservatism has been neutered.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  73. As for Trump’s ranking, it’s too soon and no one is objective. Nixon, for example, has moved up considerably and I expect that W and Barack Obama will eventually be seen as middling. Sometimes it takes a while. I expect Wilson and Jackson to drop quite a few spots in the near future, and Grant’s been getting more love of late.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  74. Americans no longer wish to be entertained. They wish to be governed.

    Interesting admission, since Americans have heretofore never wished to be governed.

    Maybe the stake has finally been driven into America exceptionalism. Congrats.

    beer ‘n pretzels (c4008f)

  75. ideological conservatism has been neutered.

    I’d say “slimed.”

    Like in Ghostbusters.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  76. Americans no longer wish to govern themselves. They wish to be governed. And THAT is our real problem. And it will take generations to cure.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  77. Also contending are Fillmore, Pierce, Tyler, WH Harrison, A Johnson and Harding, who make up the traditional cellar.

    Don’t forget Woody Wilson, Kevin, but I think it’s more than fair to say that Trump has easily been our worst president in a century.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  78. So who gets the Harris Senate seat? Will Newsom name himself?

    Ed from SFV (f64387)

  79. Ditto:

    Going forward, I’ll criticize Biden for his wrong and stupid decisions and statements, and I may give him credit if he does or says something that is not wrong or stupid, just like with any other president.

    Dana (6995e0)

  80. I know for a fact – from talking to people I work with who returned to China – that they did put anyone entering the country into two-week enforced quarantine.

    There were reports that Chinese authorities in Wuhan were actually forcing people into their homes and welding their doors shut. Repressive totalitarian governments sure can handle those pandemics.

    On the other hand, France imposed a very strict lockdown starting in March which included requiring permission from the government to leave your home and go shopping for groceries, yet they are experiencing a second-wave of infections every bit as bad as what we are experiencing. So maybe free societies simply aren’t amenable to this sort of thing.

    But Kevin M is right that the Biden Administration should be greatly hemmed in by Congress in any attempts they make to normalize relations with China and set us back to where they were in the Obama Era. No goddam “Reset” button for them. I think the entire West can unite along this front. We should take very small steps to aggravate China such as demand that Taiwan be made a full member of the WHO and we should continue the path of limiting our economic cooperation with them to the minimum. Our friends in Britain are leading the way.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  81. If Trump actually goes to prison for [whatever], I would like the film rights to his first day there, where he learns important things like politeness, respect and accepting the word “No.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  82. 71. I think you spelled “controlled” wrong.

    Gryph (f63000)

  83. Without doubt the biggest winner is Kamala Harris.

    Soundly rejected in the primaries by her own party and clearly despised by the opposition, she’ll now be a heartbeat away from becoming the most powerful person on Earth. And multiple brain-surgeried, plagiarist Joe Biden turns 78 years old in just 13 days.

    “We did it! We did it, Joe! You’re going to be the next President of the United States.”- Kamala Harris 11-7-20

    Yes– ‘we’ did: … and Putin smiled.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  84. So who gets the Harris Senate seat? Will Newsom name himself?

    My betting is on Loretta Sanchez, the runner up to Kamala in 2016. But there is a veritable pile of termed-out Democrats and sitting Congresswomen he might appoint (and of course, it must be a woman — you can’t put a man in a woman’s Senate seat!).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  85. “We did it! We did it, Joe! You’re going to be the next President of the United States.”- Kamala Harris 11-7-20

    Assuming he doesn’t fall down some stairs or get hit by a bolt of lightning. She’s not exactly what you’d call “assassination insurance”, at least not from all quarters.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  86. It’s going to be exceptionally entertaining watching the pretzeled excuses hollow libertarians and cut’n’run conservatives will make for electing/supporting Biden/Harris over Trump/Pence as the policy changes roll out.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  87. 88. There are those of us “libertarians” (with a small “l”) who voted for neither. Some of us still remember what a “false dichotomy” is.

    Gryph (f63000)

  88. @87. As he broaches 78, with his physical and mental condition, avoiding stairs and taking strolls leaning on a metal walker in a thunderstorm is ill-advised.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  89. Without doubt the biggest winner is Kamala Harris.

    Soundly rejected in the primaries by her own party and clearly despised by the opposition, she’ll now be a heartbeat away from becoming the most powerful person on Earth. And multiple brain-surgeried, plagiarist Joe Biden turns 78 years old in just 13 days.

    Astute observation.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  90. So who gets the Harris Senate seat? Will Newsom name himself?

    I may start a post on this topic, because I think it is very convoluted and wrought with political and sociological minefields for Newsom and the Democrats. I may not get to it this weekend, but if not I’ll try to address it early next week.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  91. Xi wins bigger than Harris.

    beer ‘n pretzels (c4008f)

  92. Dave,

    You are right that almost every Asian country has much lower reported death rates. Even Thailand and the Philippines, which are a lot less structured than, say, South Korea.

    Possibilities:
    * There is a cultural reticence or other trait that has these deaths reported differently
    * There is a targeted genetic marker not present in Asians (and this brings up other issues)
    * Some of these countries are easier to isolate (explains Taiwan, but not Philippines or Thailand).
    * China warned these other countries on the down-low for some reason, and Covid never got a foothold.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  93. @89. Pretzels go good with beer.

    “My advice to you is to start drinking heavily.” – Bluto [John Belushi] ‘National Lampoon’s AAnimal House’ 1978

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  94. But still, China lied to everyone, prevented researchers from coming in, refused to provide isolated virus samples, and pretended all was well. There have to be consequences.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  95. 96. There won’t be.

    Gryph (f63000)

  96. I haven’t been to a Walmart in a year.

    nk (1d9030)

  97. Xi wins bigger than Harris.

    XI is under considerable internal pressure. His foreign policy has been disastrous, alienating most of the country’s trading partners and other allies even before Covid. There will be a fight within the Party soon, and it’s not certain Xi will win that fight. Then again, they play for keeps.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  98. Melania got her wish about “Be Best”.
    Jill Biden will be an excellent First Lady.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  99. @93. Xi can never lose; he’s ‘president for life.’ 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  100. Please, please, please, do not believe that crap that China wanted Biden any more than you believed that Richard B. Spencer Nazi’s endorsement of Biden.

    nk (1d9030)

  101. I haven’t been to a Walmart in a year.

    Well, since Walmarts are banned in Los Angeles (union town) I hadn’t been to many until I moved here. There’s a huge one a mile west, and another a few miles south. I go once a week for staples and OTC. I don’t know what all the hate is about. They hire a lot of people who other places won’t: young, old, handicapped and pay about as well as the union stores.

    They do have a lot of Chinese crap, but that”s not what I go there for.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  102. So… saw this and wondering if the Trump campaign has already wargamed this out:

    Chad Pergram

    Twitter logo

    1) The Hitchhiker’s Guide How Congress certifies the electoral vote.

    2) The Constitution makes Congress the ultimate arbiter determining which candidate wins each state. Congress must approve certificates of election from all 50 states. The crucial date is December 14, dictated by an obscure, Byzantine, 1887 law: The Electoral Count Act.

    3) Congress passed the legislation after the disputed 1876 Presidential election between President Rutherford B. Hayes and Samuel Tilden. Electoral votes were far from certain in Florida, South Carolina, Louisiana and Oregon.

    4) There was a sprint to settle the electoral college tally before Inauguration Day, 1877. Congress created an “electoral commission” to resolve the issues. In those days, the President assumed office on March 4.

    5) The Electoral Count Act dictates that states choose electors no more than 41 days after the election. This is partly why the Supreme Court rushed to complete Bush v. Gore on December 12, 2000.

    6) The decision halted the count of ballots in Florida, handing the presidency to George W. Bush.
    The 1887 law establishes a “safe harbor” date so states conclude vote counts and establish electors early.

    7) The cryptic nature of the statute could give some states the green light to continue to counting – or cease counting.

    8) So what happens if a state sends inconsistent slates of electoral votes to Congress? The new, 117th Congress must hammer all of that out, starting on January 6, 2021.

    9) Electoral vote “certificates” start filtering into the Capitol in December from the various states. This is in preparation for the House and Senate to meet in a Joint Session of Congress on January 6 to formally sign off on the results.

    10) At this point, we expect House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) – presuming she is re-elected as Speaker and Vice President Pence, in his capacity as President of the Senate, to co-preside over the Joint Session. Pence’s term doesn’t expire until January 20.

    11) And, the 12th Amendment to the Constitution mandates that “the President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall be counted.”

    12) That phrase is key. It has vexed Constitutional scholars for decades. The 12th Amendment doesn’t dictate “how” the votes are counted. That’s why this could get dicey.

    13) The 12th Amendment also says “the person having the greatest number of votes for President shall be President.” But Congress must agree to all of this. And remember, Pence is the one running the show at this stage.

    14) From a technical standpoint, once the House and Senate settle the electoral college, that’s when the President-elect is on a glidepath to the Oval Office.

    15) After the 2000 Florida election dispute, a cavalcade of Congressional Black Caucus members paraded through the well of the House chamber to contest the outcome in January, 2021.

    16) Vice President Al Gore, then President of the Senate, and like Nixon, the vanquished Democratic nominee, presided.

    “Mr. Vice President, I rise to object to the fraudulent 24 Florida electoral votes,” declared Rep. Maxine Waters (D-CA).

    17) “Is the objection in writing and signed by a member of the House and a senator?” inquired Gore.

    Congressional rules require a House member and senator simultaneously challenge a state’s electoral slate. But Waters lacked a Senate sponsor.

    18) “The objection is in writing!” snapped Waters. “And I don’t care!”

    Gore, stood firm, despite having the most to benefit from Waters’ entreaty.

    “The chair will advise that the rules do care,” Gore intoned, triggering applause throughout the House chamber.

    19) Questions arose in January, 2005 about Ohio’s slate of electoral votes. In that instance, the late Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones (D-OH) and former Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-CA) teamed up to challenge Ohio’s electoral votes.

    20) The House and Senate then met separately to consider Ohio’s slate. But after a short debate, Congress decided that President George W. Bush was victorious in Ohio.

    21) The Constitution does not mandate what the House and Senate must do to establish whether it “certifies” an electoral slate.

    22) And if the House and Senate actually debate or even vote on a disputed slate of electors from a state, what happens if each body reaches a different conclusion? Or, if they fail to certify a candidate scoring above the 270 vote threshold?

    23) It’s mathematically possible the presidential candidates fall shy of the required 270 votes to assume the presidency? Then we would enter murky, Constitutional waters.

    24) If Congress fails to certify a candidate getting to 270 electoral votes, there’s a stalemate. At that point, th12th Amendment directs the House to elect the President.

    25) This is called a “contingent election.” The House has chosen two Presidents via contingent elections: Thomas Jefferson in 1801 and John Quincy Adams in 1825.

    26) Each state casts one ballot as a House delegation during a contingent election. The House only considers the top three electoral college vote getters in a contingent election.

    27) There have been 165 “faithless electors” in U.S. history. These are persons who vote for someone besides the candidates for whom they are pledged.

    28) Faithless electors in 2016 directed electoral votes to former Secretary of State Colin Powell, former Ohio Gov. John Kasich (R), former Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX), Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) and Faith Spotted Eagle.

    So, one vote per state in a contingent election in the House

    29) So even small states count the same as say California in a contingent election for President in the House under the 12th Amendment.

    30) The House wing of the Capitol wasn’t complete when House members met for the contingent election of 1801 between Jefferson, Aaron Burr and sitting President John Adams, the top three electoral vote getters.

    31) So, House members huddled in what is now the office of Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) on the Senate side of the Capitol to choose the third American President.

    32) Contingent election haggling consumed six days. Members finally broke the logjam on the 36th ballot, propelling Jefferson to the Presidency.

    33) Nothing is written in the Constitution as to how long Congress has to work out who is President in a contingent election. But what happens if the House hasn’t picked a President by noon et on January 20th?

    34) That’s the Constitutionally-mandated day and time to inaugurate a President. This is where the 20thAmendment and the Presidential Succession Act kicks in.

    35) If the House remains stymied at noon on January 20, there is no President nor Vice President. The terms of President Trump and Vice President Pence expire. But there is a Speaker of the House, next in line to the Presidency.

    36) This is where the Speaker of the House, by statute, becomes “Acting President.” Not President. But “Acting President.” Whatever that means.

    37) If nothing is settled by January 20th, this could create what scholars refer to as the “two claims scenario.” That’s where two people say they are rightfully the President on January 20.

    38) The U.S. came close to “two claims” with Hayes and Tilden in 1877. A back-room Congressional deal ultimately awarded the presidency to Hayes, even staving off a Senate filibuster (!).

    39) Congress determined Hayes won the electoral college 185-184. Tilden captured the popular vote by three points.

    Detractors called the new President “Rutherfraud” B. Hayes.

    But Congress has to settle this before noon et on January 20.

    So… my real question is this: Will Trump find support in the House AND the Senate to contest the elector slate?

    I’m sure he can find a “Trumpy” House congress critter… but, he’s the Senator?

    I don’t see it.

    whembly (c30c83)

  103. do not believe that crap that China wanted Biden

    The conspiracy stuff, probably not. But I don’t see Xi wanting Trump around either — that bridge burned down from both ends.

    I do think it’s kinda funny that Mexico’s president got along well with Trump as they had complementary agendas.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  104. KM @68 etc.-

    Good luck with charging China with “crimes against humanity” when their whole political system is based on that. The President also pretty much free rein in foreign policy so congressional restrictions would be limited.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  105. @102: Xi liked this comment.

    beer ‘n pretzels (c4008f)

  106. …please, do not believe that crap that China wanted Biden any more than you believed that Richard B. Spencer Nazi’s endorsement of Biden.

    Actually, I do believe that, but China’s reasons for preferring Biden are coherent and there’s no evidence that Xi and his Chinese Communist Party have meddled and interfered in our election.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  107. there’s no evidence that Xi and his Chinese Communist Party have meddled and interfered in our election.

    Other than Covid.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  108. Lived in a socialist country. You’re going to love it.

    Well– most of it. Say no to mutton.

    “You say it as if it were terrible. Believe me, it isn’t. You’ve been in love before. It didn’t last. It never does. Love, desire, ambition, faith… Without them, life is so simple. Believe me.” – Dr. Kauffman [Larry Gates] ‘Invasion Of The Body Snatchers’ 1956

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  109. whembly–

    The contingent election of 1801 was mainly because the system was stupid then. VP was to go to the second-place finisher and Jefferson and Burr had run as a P/VP ticket. But they forgot to arrange one of their electors to vote for someone else and so their electors gave all their votes to both men, creating a tie. Now, a reasonable man might have shrugged it off and deferred to Jefferson, but Burr was ambitious…..

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  110. Not my intention to be macabre, but I wonder how long Thomas will keep on keepin’ on.

    When he goes, it becomes the Roberts’ court again. Will the Chief revert to more constrained opinions now that his enemy, the Orange Man, is gone? Or, will SCOTUS revert to the ever more statist entity it had become in the last few years?

    Ed from SFV (f64387)

  111. On the other hand, France imposed a very strict lockdown starting in March which included requiring permission from the government to leave your home and go shopping for groceries, yet they are experiencing a second-wave of infections every bit as bad as what we are experiencing. So maybe free societies simply aren’t amenable to this sort of thing.

    The French lockdown, which dramatically suppressed the virus, ended in late April or early May. For months afterward, they had case and death rates that were a tiny fraction of ours.

    Over the next six months, people gradually relaxed their guard and got careless, and the virus returned. My grad student has been living in France, just across the border from Geneva, since February, so I’ve gotten steady reports a few times a week. At CERN, after practically closing the lab in Spring, they have been open since May with strictly enforced rules on mask use, distancing and quarantine of anyone who was in contact with an infected person. There are no known cases of transmission on-site at CERN.

    France and CERN are perfect examples that containment of the virus is directly correlated with the extent precautions are followed and enforced.

    Dave (1bb933)

  112. 78.Americans no longer wish to govern themselves. They wish to be governed. And THAT is our real problem. And it will take generations to cure.

    Should be quite entertaining. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  113. France and CERN are perfect examples that containment of the virus is directly correlated with the extent precautions are followed and enforced.

    Yes, Americans crave to live like Froggies and grad students.

    Mon Dieu, Davey, you just doesn’t grasp the concept of freedom.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  114. @74 Says that man who intends to vote for Nikki “I am awash in ideological conservatism” Haley.

    Nic (896fdf)

  115. No sympathy for the poor Comintern holdovers who will once again be in the cold in a hostile country, Mr. Nic?

    nk (1d9030)

  116. @111 My point was that there is an ACTUAL process to determine the president of neither gets 270 and that Congress fails to certify the elector slate.

    I just don’t see it happening though.

    What Trump should do, is Pardon Flynn…pardon his administration including himself.

    That’ll be far less toxic then gunning for contingent election route.

    whembly (c30c83)

  117. @116. Is she? Is the ex-Trump Administration member?

    Stay tuned.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  118. I think you got it right in your 10:45 am comment, whembly. I say very much the same things to people who ask “What if Trump refuses to go?” The new President will be sworn in with the old President having no involvement; the old President’s term will have automatically expired under the Constitution; and the Secret Service will now remove a trespasser from the White House.

    nk (1d9030)

  119. @117 Nah, they’ll be fine.

    #119 She was a pretty traditionally conservative governor. I think that’s probably a better measure of her ideology than her time with Trump.

    Nic (896fdf)

  120. @116. She’s a pragmatist, Nic; transactional. No Margaret Thatcher she.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  121. She was a pretty traditionally conservative governor

    Until she wasn’t.

    She’s no rigid-minded slave to a staid ideology. But Harris may clip her ex-Boeing wings when she ascends to the presidency after Joe passes. Ol’Joe turns 78 in just 13 days.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  122. Yes, Americans crave to live like Froggies and grad students.

    Didn’t you hear? Americans “wish to be governed.”

    h/t our host

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  123. What is it you think the government does?

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  124. Concerning China, I think the conspiracy stuff is garbage.

    The virus was identified and the first test became available during the first week in January.

    Beijing’s infectious disease experts, after traveling to Wuhan, advised there was a problem at the end of the second week of January. Beijing began preparing its response.

    A study clearly establishing human-human transmission came out a week after that and China’s all-out response began at the same time.

    So there was roughly a week when the local authorities dithered, and another week while the national authorities dithered.

    All this when the disease had been identified days before and information was incomplete and uncertain. In hindsight, they clearly should have acted with more urgency, but you seem to be arguing for a massive, economically damaging response within days, based on very preliminary information. Subsequently, our own government, with the benefit of much better information and unequivocal evidence, failed (for similar economic and political reasons) to respond adequately for months.

    From what I’ve read, and it makes sense, the high incidence of asymptomatic cases and transmission confused them in the beginning. Typically for these highly infectious diseases, if a husband has symptoms, the wife has symptoms to, etc. As we know, COVID is an outlier in this regard.

    Dave (1bb933)

  125. @124. LOL

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  126. The Empire Strikes Back :

    The Biden team has announced the first action against Covid they’re going to take is =drum-roll=

    form a committee.

    No kidding.

    Precisely what you’d expect a 47 year Swamp Creature to do.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  127. Mon Dieu, Davey, you just doesn’t grasp the concept of freedom.

    I supposed John Adams didn’t grasp the concept of freedom either:

    Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

    A free society that’s actually functional depends on citizens giving some thought to how their actions affect those around them. Trump and his acolytes projected and encouraged indifference to whether they might be spreading a virulent disease to vulnerable people — at the same time as they’re outraged that the Chinese government let people travel out of Wuhan to spread it from there.

    “Personal responsibility” isn’t just a rejection of any restrictions. It’s a call to behave in a responsible way.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  128. Mon Dieu, Davey, you just doesn’t grasp the concept of freedom.

    Bless your heart.

    Dave (1bb933)

  129. @123 We’ll see. Maybe. It may also be that she’s missed her window. It’s hard to tell this far out.

    Nic (896fdf)

  130. @131. Too far out?? Haven’t you heard? ‘Early voting’ is ‘in’ now! 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  131. @130. Exactly what a white-socks-with-sandals-Froggie grad student would say.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  132. “Personal responsibility” isn’t just a rejection of any restrictions. It’s a call to behave in a responsible way.

    Or not. Damn those Boston Tea Partiers.

    But George III would agree w/you; God Save The King! 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  133. @133 Die in a fire.

    Dave (1bb933)

  134. The Biden team has announced the first action against Covid they’re going to take is =drum-roll=

    form a committee.

    No kidding

    I continue to apologize for my abject cynicism, but I’ve made this point to a number of my Biden-supporting friends: he’s quite likely be somewhat better than Trump has been on the virus (unless he tries for national 30-day lockdowns or some other nonsense), but does anyone really think that somehow Washington DC will now solve the problem just because the party in power has changed? That’s the sort of wishful thinking that makes a lot of us take a very Menckenian view of democracy, sort of like how Obama was going to heal the planet.

    Meanwhile, the fall football season in both the NCAA and NFL is just barely holding on, and the NBA announced a 72-game regular season schedule beginning in late December which this time around will not be based upon a league bubble in Florida and could in fact include a limited number of fans at some games. Musicians want to be able to get back into concert halls, and Hollywood wants people back in movie theaters. I seriously doubt that either Joe Biden nor his team will have the agility, the fortitude, or the intellectual heft to thread this needle. The best we can do is hope that the vaccine is indeed ready by early spring.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  135. All that is a long way of saying that Joe Biden is a man of processes, not a man of action.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  136. DCSCA and Dave: though this is not my post, I urge both of you to cut it out. This does not reflect well upon either of you.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  137. Hanna Trudo
    @HCTrudo

    Top @JoeBiden GOP surrogate @JohnKasich: “Now is the time for Democrats … to begin to listen to what the other half of the country has to say.”
    __

    Watching the Never-Trumpers come to grips with who they just put in charge is going to be one heck of a show.
    _

    harkin (8fadc8)

  138. But George III would agree w/you; God Save The King!

    Missing the point.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  139. @137. Form committees; make a plans.

    Didn’t Lincoln fire a certain anal general for similar bouts of bureaucratic constipation and replace him w/a hard drinking, cigar sloppy get-up-off-your-ass-and-get-going-fella instead? 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  140. @140. Yes. You are.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  141. Didn’t you hear? Americans “wish to be governed.”

    h/t our host

    I don’t think you understand the joke. And I’m not inclined to explain it to you.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  142. but does anyone really think that somehow Washington DC will now solve the problem just because the party in power has changed?

    I think trying to solve the problem is an important first step toward actually solving it, yes.

    Because the last nine months prove clearly that it isn’t going to solve itself.

    Unfortunately, the majority of the GOP – cheered on by Trump and his cultists – will likely continue to obstruct the solution, albeit for different reasons than they have to date.

    Dave (1bb933)

  143. @137 He is not dynamic in his actions, that’s for sure. But it’s also a relief. I think I’ve had enough dynamism over the last 4 years. I need a rest.

    Nic (896fdf)

  144. @135. Davey! Pshaw!

    “Match me, Sidney.” – J.J. Hunsecker [Burt Lancaster] ‘The Sweet Smell Of Success” – 1957

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  145. DCSCA and Dave: though this is not my post, I urge both of you to cut it out. This does not reflect well upon either of you.

    Correct.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  146. @138. Agreed, JVW. Though I feel he stepped over the ‘firing’ line- but it doesn’t bother me. 😉 Some of my best friends were white-socks-open-toed-sandal-wearing-grad students— in 1978. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  147. Watching the Never-Trumpers come to grips with who they just put in charge

    There must be way more NeverTrumpers than anyone has ever been aware of.
    Trumpers still assert that NeverTrumpers didn’t sway any Republican voters away from Trump. So are they the ones who stuffed all those fraudulent ballots into the boxes?

    Radegunda (20775b)

  148. This does not reflect well upon either of you.

    I will drop it, but I reject the implied equivalence.

    I posted a mature and serious comment, which was met with an insult by the village idiot.

    After I (politely) told him go to hell, he went on to also insult my student, which I consider tantamount to insulting a family member.

    Dave (1bb933)

  149. The relief over Trump losing due to his persona rather than his polices screen is pretty translucent.

    ‘Conservatives For Biden’ have made their purchase; no returns accepted. We’ll see ho they feel in a year– or in two when President Harris takes over. Regardless- Joe’s a certain one-termer.

    Certainly an era of transition.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  150. Surprising that Biden’s COVID task force doesn’t include Fauci or Birx.

    Until Trump fires them, I guess they can’t work for Biden at the same time.

    Presumably they will be remain engaged after January 20.

    Dave (1bb933)

  151. Shorter Dave @144: More Harvard faculty. Less Boston phone book.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  152. It’s not over until it’s over.

    Have the states certified their final vote tallies? Not yet, but they will by or on Dec. 8. Have the electors been appointed? Not yet, but they will be by or on Dec. 14. Has the electoral college voted? Not yet, but they will. Has the Congress certified their vote? Not yet, but they will on Jan. 6. Then it will be over. The next president will be sworn in at noon on Jan. 20.

    A lot can happen between now and then. Trump is not going to go gentle into that good night, and he will never admit defeat. Never. He’s not psychologically capable of admitting he’s a loser. He’s spent the last fifty years magically turning losses into victories, by manipulating the media.

    He’s a fighter! So he’s going to fight. That’s why his cult worships him. But if the media turns against him, having finally come to their senses?

    https://hotair.com/archives/allahpundit/2020/11/07/ap-cnn-cbs-abc-nbc-fox-news-call-race-biden/

    There are two runoffs for Senate seats in Georgia. I agree with Allahpundit that if Trump goes off the rails, the Republicans could lose both. That would flip the Senate.

    Thus, the complete destruction of the Republican party will be complete. To win the House, the Senate and the White House, only to lose it all within four years. Talk about epic failure.

    What concerns me is that the GOP will not admit their mistake. Nominating and electing Trump was a mistake. Excusing and defending him now is a mistake. The Republican party needs to take a serious look at itself. Trump is a total fraud. Does the party want to be a total fraud? Apparently so.

    These next weeks are going to be difficult.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  153. @149. Radegunda, 70 million-plus Americans voted for Trump– not merely supporting him, but his polices and actions; a tally that expaned over the numbers from 2016. Those voters aren’t just going to evaporate. Remember what the sequel to The Empire Strikes Back was?

    Return Of The Jedi [Originally titled Revenge of the Jedi BW.]

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  154. he went on to also insult my student

    The insult (Exactly what a white-socks-with-sandals-Froggie grad student would say) was also without any factual basis, since Dave wrote only that the student was sending regular reports, specified here with details of the sort that can be fact-checked.

    Otherwise the student’s sins are 1. Living in France (for now); and 2) Being Dave’s student.

    As for the totally invented detail of wearing socks with sandals: I knew a distinctly conservative person who did that all the time, in lieu of getting bunion surgery. But the socks weren’t white.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  155. France and CERN are perfect examples that containment of the virus is directly correlated with the extent precautions are followed and enforced.

    Right. And low rates of driving fatalities are directly correlated with the extent that people follow traffic laws and drive safely. Yet people in free societies aren’t very good a following traffic laws just as they aren’t very good at following coronavirus precautions. That’s my whole point. France’s example of imposing a strict lockdown in the spring is akin to city police or highway patrol making it known that they will be continually monitoring roads and highways where people tend to break the speed limit and plow through red lights: it will be effective in cutting down bad behavior while it lasts, but once you stop those patrols people are just going to go back to their old ways. I think that has to be understood in any government-wide response to this problem.

    I have a friend who wants police officers to fine people for not wearing masks in public: $100 fine on your first offense (no warnings given), $250 fine on second offense, $500 fine on third offense, $1,000 fine on fourth offense, and then incarceration thereafter. That’s all good and well in theory, but we all know this sort of regulation will hit the poorest communities the hardest and that law enforcement is distrusted enough these days that they certainly don’t want to be the collection agency for the nanny state. So unless you really believe that we will somehow get serious about enforcement — start raiding poker night, Sunday afternoon football gatherings, house parties, etc. in order to write tickets — I think we have to recognize that our hands are kind of tied, no matter who occupies the White House.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  156. Thank heavens all those businesses boarded up their windows.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  157. Shorter Dave @144: More Harvard faculty. Less Boston phone book.

    If your life, or the life of someone you cared about, was at risk from a deadly disease, would you seek treatment from a name chosen randomly from the phone book?

    Or from a medical doctor with specialized training related to the disease?

    Dave (1bb933)

  158. If your life, or the life of someone you cared about, was at risk from a deadly disease, would you seek treatment from a name chosen randomly from the phone book?

    You were talking about government policy, Dave, and so was I — and so was Buckley.

    Why change the subject?

    I’d get a trained doctor for a personal medical issue. I don’t want doctors deciding federal medical policy. That’s the way conservatives used to think before they became “real conservatives.”

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  159. @159. Better to act ‘presidential’ like Joe — and form a committee. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  160. DCSCA: so the old Insta-canon that Rebels and Jedi are Commies and Yoda is Ho Chi Minh ist kaput?

    urbanleftbehind (90d464)

  161. @155 — How do you know that they all love Trump, as distinct from deciding that he would be the lesser of two evils?

    It’s funny how this “Look how many people really love Trump” argument comes from the same people who when convenient will say “Binary Choice! He may not be great, but you don’t want those other people do you?” And who now in many cases aren’t saying “You threw out a wonderful president,” but “Now you’ll have President Kamala Harris pretty soon!”

    So Trumpers are happy to use the “voting against the other side” argument when it’s useful, but then assert that no one who cast a vote for Trump over Biden was actually dong that; it was all pure Trump-love.

    Also, the number of people who vote against Trump expanded by more since 2016. Why doesn’t that count? This election demonstrates that a lot of people who tend to favor conservative policies can’t stand Trump.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  162. @157. Surely if everybody had been handed a mask and a pen when they voted in person… you must wear the mask, have the require two pieces of ID to proceed to vote—- things would have gone smoothly. 😉

    Nah.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  163. @162 If the choices are Guy who directly and publicly contradicts medical advice and encourages his followers to act in ways that endanger them and everyone around them and Guy who supports medical advice and forms a committee, committee guy it is.

    Nic (896fdf)

  164. Committees are a CYA way of seeming to do something, when doing nothing is the goal. It’s a honed and tested process perfected by everyone with 47 year political careers.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  165. I think that has to be understood in any government-wide response to this problem.

    Not a super great analogy, IMO, since risky driving habits are not contagious in the same way as infectious diseases. Lack of enforcement may gradually cause an increase in the fraction of people who speed or run red lights, but not exponential growth on a time-scale of weeks.

    Once the prevalence of the virus is low, as it was over the summer in Europe, relatively lenient measures can keep it in check, since the spread is proportional to how many people are already sick. After the first lock-down, the Euros could have spared themselves a second by continuing to observe much less stringent precautions. But they either miscalibrated or waited too long to react once the number of cases was rising.

    That’s all good and well in theory, but we all know this sort of regulation will hit the poorest communities the hardest and that law enforcement is distrusted enough these days that they certainly don’t want to be the collection agency for the nanny state.

    The poorest communities are also the ones hardest hit by the virus. Ideally, if half the politicians in the country weren’t telling people to ignore the virus, and leaders showed civic responsibility, people would understand the need for masks and distancing, and the need for enforcement would be rare. Once a high enough percentage of people wear masks, the holdouts would be socially isolated (and much easier for enforcement to deal with).

    Politicizing common-sense public health measures and encouraging resistance to them as some kind of tribal statement is one of the worst wounds Trump inflicted on us. And it is bleeding over a thousand American lives, daily.

    If he had taken an adult attitude like “I hate wearing masks too, but they’re a necessary evil, and the faster we get the virus tamed, the sooner we can stop” he would likely have been re-elected easily.

    Dave (1bb933)

  166. I think trying to solve the problem is an important first step toward actually solving it, yes.

    I understand this, but how many important issues in government are assigned to a committee as a way to let it die? Think of all of the deficit reduction committees we’ve had — and I’ll betcha President Biden puts together yet another one of them — and how they are always engineered to fail.

    Same with hiring “outside consultants” to investigate a problem. That’s all good and well, up to the point when they issue their reports months (or even years) later and no one is paying attention any longer. Look no further than Governor Newsom bringing in McKensie & Co. to try to suggest fixes for our gawd-awful DMV. They issued a report with some suggestions for improvement which — you will never guess — dovetailed nicely with the quarter-billion dollars in new spending that CA Dems had showered upon the department. But there are certainly a number of gross inefficiencies and deficiencies in our state that have been identified and investigated, yet solutions never seem to be forthcoming.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  167. France and CERN are perfect examples that containment of the virus is directly correlated with the extent precautions are followed and enforced.

    OK, explain Philippines and Thailand.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  168. I don’t want doctors deciding federal medical policy.

    Reality TV game-show hosts instead?

    Yeah, I guess I can see that.

    You were talking about government policy, Dave, and so was I — and so was Buckley.

    Why change the subject?

    Why indeed?

    We are talking about a task force to advise policy-makers, not to set policy.

    Dave (1bb933)

  169. @162. Nic- The pandemic is Mother Nature at work; it’s airborne; this has devolved into arguing over thunderstorms and umbrella distributorship. No matter what you do, whether you have an umbrella big or small, or none at all, people are going to get wet; some will even get struck by lightning standing under a tree or walking to the grocery store, singin’ in the rain; and some will take the ‘personal responsibility’ by limiting exposure to the storm, simply stay indoors, out of the rain, until the storm passes.

    So tell me how anybody can ‘shut down the virus’ –as Joe keeps crowing– by ‘forming a committee.’ By the time they meet, quill a report and issue recommendations, the storm will have passed.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  170. Not a super great analogy, IMO, since risky driving habits are not contagious in the same way as infectious diseases.

    No, but they are contagious in the same way that not wearing a mask or deciding to join 100,000 of your closes friends in the downtown victory party for the Lakers is akin to deciding to speed up through that red light or weave in and out of highway lanes while going 90 mph. I’m not analogizing driving habits with the spread of the disease; I’m analogizing people’s refusal to abide by road rules with their refusal to abide by COVID-prevention rules.

    Politicizing common-sense public health measures and encouraging resistance to them as some kind of tribal statement is one of the worst wounds Trump inflicted on us.

    I agree that Trump has behaved irresponsibly. No argument with that. But I have to laugh at the assertion that communities like Los Angeles County which voted overwhelmingly (75-25, at last count I believe) against Donald Trump were somehow influenced by his mask-wearing habits or lack thereof. My buddy with whom I enjoy this very same debate regularly wants to blame Trump for the spread of the virus in heavily Democrat communities; sorry, I’m not buying it.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  171. @126:

    Nearly everything you post there is contradicted here, with sources:

    https://www.nationalreview.com/the-morning-jolt/chinas-devastating-lies/

    December 6: According to a study in The Lancet, the symptom onset date of the first patient identified was “Dec 1, 2019 . . . 5 days after illness onset, his wife, a 53-year-old woman who had no known history of exposure to the market, also presented with pneumonia and was hospitalized in the isolation ward.” In other words, as early as the second week of December, Wuhan doctors were finding cases that indicated the virus was spreading from one human to another.

    December 21: Wuhan doctors begin to notice a “cluster of pneumonia cases with an unknown cause.”

    December 25: Chinese medical staff in two hospitals in Wuhan are suspected of contracting viral pneumonia and are quarantined. This is additional strong evidence of human-to-human transmission.

    Sometime in “Late December”: Wuhan hospitals notice “an exponential increase” in the number of cases that cannot be linked back to the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, according to the New England Journal of Medicine.

    December 30: Dr. Li Wenliang sent a message to a group of other doctors warning them about a possible outbreak of an illness that resembled severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), urging them to take protective measures against infection.

    December 31: The Wuhan Municipal Health Commission declares, “The investigation so far has not found any obvious human-to-human transmission and no medical staff infection.” This is the opposite of the belief of the doctors working on patients in Wuhan, and two doctors were already suspected of contracting the virus.

    Three weeks after doctors first started noticing the cases, China contacts the World Health Organization.

    Tao Lina, a public-health expert and former official with Shanghai’s center for disease control and prevention, tells the South China Morning Post, “I think we are [now] quite capable of killing it in the beginning phase, given China’s disease control system, emergency handling capacity and clinical medicine support.”

    January 1: The Wuhan Public Security Bureau issued summons to Dr. Li Wenliang, accusing him of “spreading rumors.” Two days later, at a police station, Dr. Li signed a statement acknowledging his “misdemeanor” and promising not to commit further “unlawful acts.” Seven other people are arrested on similar charges and their fate is unknown.

    and so on.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  172. there’s no evidence that Xi and his Chinese Communist Party have meddled and interfered in our election.

    US Intelligence Community said they tried to influence our election:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-53702872

    But I understand that you are going to soft peddle now that a Democrat is in office. Only tough talk like “meddling” and “interfering” when Trump is president.

    But if you are okay with China influencing, I understand.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  173. @164. R- they voted FOR the ticket; the options were not to, not vote at all– or vote for the oher ticket[s]. And the numbers increased over 2016, not decreased. If they’d dropped, your POV would have some validity. But they didn’t.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  174. The Biden team has announced the first action against Covid they’re going to take is =drum-roll=

    They’ve previously announced a plan to “get the vaccine to everyone.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  175. The stories that some Dem urban centers were boarding up their windows in case Trump lost and white supremacists went nuts is a nutshell of 2020 election coverage.
    _

    harkin (8fadc8)

  176. @172 If one person is going “HEY, GO OUT AND PLAY IN THE PUDDLES, YOU WONT GET WET! ROOFS ARE FAKE NEWS.” and the other says “Stay under your roof, we’ll see what we can do about all this wetness.” The stay under your roof guy is the right choice, even if he can’t keep the storm from storming. Maybe he doesn’t fix the storm, but you are less likely to get wet. There was some woman who was interviewed about mask wearing (she was not wearing a mask). The reporter asked her if they’d wear masks if Trump said to and she said yes, of course. Now, maybe for those people it’s a Darwin Award issue, but they have friends, co-workers, and family who are doing the best they can and they don’t deserve a secondary Darwin Award. The people aren’t the only ones who should be taking personal responsibility for their actions. The President also should be responsible for their choices.

    Nic (896fdf)

  177. @179. Nic, I’m old enough now to know I don’t need the President of the United States of America to tell me how to manage my life. I gave up on that when one told me the was ‘light at the end of the tunnel’ as neighbor’s bodies came home from DaNang and his successor said he hoped my ‘first vote would be my best vote…’ not long after, he resigned in disgrace.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  178. I understand this, but how many important issues in government are assigned to a committee as a way to let it die?

    For the last year and a half, Biden has been focused on campaigning for office.

    The idea that it’s somehow a dodge or scam, now that he’s elected, to assemble a group of experts to provide detailed advice and information on the country’s most pressing policy issue, which is spiraling further out of control every day, is … remarkable.

    What should he do instead?

    Announce “Yeah, sorry, I guess I can’t really improve on the mess Trump has made of things”?

    Whatever today’s talking heads on Fox & Friends suggest?

    Rely on his own vast knowledge of immunology?

    If we were getting our asses kicked in a war, and President-elect Biden met with a group of generals to hear their ideas about how we might turn the tide, would you deride him for doing that, too?

    Trump’s task force actually put out a very sensible plan that, if followed, would have saved countless lives. And then he went to war with it the next day (“LIBERATE MICHIGAN”).

    Trump’s science fiction is killing people. It’s time to start taking the advice of people who know what they’re talking about seriously.

    Dave (1bb933)

  179. @177. Wasn’t Beauregarde Evan Rory Biden an aid to General George B. McClellan??? 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  180. Here’s a scenario:
    Trump resigns on 1/18/2021 and Pence is immediately sworn in and becomes the 46th president for a couple days.
    On 1/19/2021, Pence pulls a Gerald Ford and gives Trump a blanket pardon for all the crimes he committed in office.
    On 1/20/2021, Trump watches Inauguration Day on his flatscreen in his robe in Mar a Lago, tweeting about the “stolen” election and not having to face the humiliation of being a one-term loser, forced to pass the torch to Sleepy Joe. Pence gets that final mop-up duty, and he got to play president for 48 hours, which is as close to the job as he’ll ever get.
    For Trump-Pence, it’s a win-win! I might put a few dollars on that bet in Vegas.

    Paul Montagu (143cdf)

  181. Biden claims mandate, but cannot declare victory in last week’s election. This seems backwards.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  182. Nearly everything you post there is contradicted here, with sources:

    Nothing you posted contradicts anything I wrote.

    The virus was identified as a novel coronavirus, and its genome was mapped, making PCR tests for it possible, in the first week of January. Until then, it was a suspicious cluster of pneumonia-like cases of unknown origin.

    Dave (1bb933)

  183. Reality TV game-show hosts instead?

    Unfortunately, there was neither a Hollywood actor (Reagan) nor a baseball team owner (Bush) available.

    But, thank heavens we have a career politician in charge now.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  184. And now, it’s been called.

    Front page in all the majors.

    Biden Wins.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  185. The virus was identified as a novel coronavirus, and its genome was mapped, making PCR tests for it possible, in the first week of January. Until then, it was a suspicious cluster of pneumonia-like cases of unknown origin.

    That they were required to report, did not, and the lied a lot. But, fine, Dave, be their apologist.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  186. Here’s a provocative thought: You know who was arguably worse about undermining mask wearing than President Trump was? All of the people who insisted that wearing masks was vital to fighting the spread of the virus yet somehow were rather lax in their own habits.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  187. For the last year and a half, Biden has been focused on campaigning for office.

    Uh, considering that Biden’s campaign since May was largely centered around Trump’s inadequate response to the virus, you would think that he might have formulated a damn plan by now. Or are you suggesting his whole focus was just on trying to tie Trump to the virus, not on trying to figure out how to beat it? Of course Ol’ Joe — who teaches classes on Constitutional law, don’tcha know — was busy this past summer and fall trying to determine whether or not the President has the authority to order a national mask mandate. So I guess a committee is all we’re going to get out of him until the vaccine — which he will have little if anything to do with — eventually appears.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  188. But, thank heavens we have a career politician in charge now.

    I have no doubt that Biden will get the Nobel Peace Prize for curing Covid-19. Probably share it with Xi.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  189. But I understand that you are going to soft peddle now that a Democrat is in office.

    There’s a difference between trying to influence—which is what every nation does, including us—to actively interfering in an election, like what Putin did, Hoi. One standard.

    Paul Montagu (143cdf)

  190. It’s time to start taking the advice of people who know what they’re talking about seriously.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RomY4RY15SA

    =mike-drop=

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  191. @180 I don’t think it’s an age thing, I think its being taught (and encouraged) to think for yourself, or learning to do so independently. Not everyone gets to that point and a lot of people live in bubbles where certain thought patterns get reinforced very strongly (this happens to people in both liberal and conservative bubbles, and some religious bubble communities as well). And some people have very specific blind spots that lead them to listen to certain people no matter what they say. All those people, especially, need people in leadership who aren’t telling them to do stupid things.

    Nic (896fdf)

  192. @189. You mean, ‘personal responsibility’ JVW??

    Pshaw!

    I only do what my president does; this evening I’ll dream of Melania walking away from me- slowly, out of the bedroom, just like he does 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  193. US Intelligence Community said they tried to influence our election:

    I wouldn’t doubt that Beijing is fed-up with Trump’s lunacy.

    But if you read the actual statement, the so-called “interference” involves public criticism of Trump policies that negatively affect China, and looking out for their interests while they “recognize that all of these efforts might affect the presidential race”:

    China has been expanding its influence efforts ahead of November 2020 to shape the policy environment in the United States, pressure political figures it views as opposed to China’s interests, and deflect and counter criticism of China. Although China will continue to weigh the risks and benefits of aggressive action, its public rhetoric over the past few months has grown increasingly critical of the current Administration’s COVID-19 response, closure of China’s Houston Consulate, and actions on other issues. For example, it has harshly criticized the Administration’s statements and actions on Hong Kong, TikTok, the legal status of the South China Sea, and China’s efforts to dominate the 5G market. Beijing recognizes that all of these efforts might affect the presidential race.

    Nothing alleged in that statement could be fairly described as improper. Basically it says they are “influencing” the election by not going out of their way to shield Trump from the consequences of his policies.

    Is it your position that, because there is an election going on, President Trump should be allowed to freely and publicly criticize China’s leader, while China must scrupulously avoid public criticism of him?

    Dave (1bb933)

  194. Too good to check…

    I feel like we didn’t focus enough on the fact that someone in the Trump campaign meant to schedule the “four seasons hotel” but definitely accidentally scheduled this “four seasons landscaping” store and they had to follow through with it. Veep was not this good.

    Good golly.
    https://twitter.com/slexaxton/status/1325141204418191361?s=21

    Paul Montagu (143cdf)

  195. JVW: #189. You know the truth: our betters just know what is best for us. What they do does not matter.

    Both parties do this. But get ready for a whole bunch of sanctimony on the topic. I’m tired already.

    I really hate all the celebrating taking place from my Left of center friends. Worshipping of politicians is always bad. Sort of like having this person call DJT or Mitt Romney racist.

    https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-giving-eulogy-kkk-recruiter-robert-byrd-resurfaces-after-trump-doesnt-condemn-white-1535776

    But that’s different because shut up.

    This will be the official motto of the new administration.

    Simon Jester (9d409e)

  196. 184.Biden claims mandate, but cannot declare victory in last week’s election. This seems backwards

    ‘Mandate for action’ is a line he read on a Men’s Room stall in a Wilmington aerodrome rest room– or a phrase he plagiarized from Lindsey Graham.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  197. That they were required to report, did not, and the lied a lot.

    They reported it on December 31, as your own post noted.

    But, fine, Dave, be their apologist.

    I said that in hindsight they should have acted faster. The public health authorities in Wuhan seem to have exhibited Trump-like denial and wish-casting for about a week at the beginning of January.

    But to my mind, there’s a difference between Trump-like denial the week after a new and completely unknown virus is discovered, and Trump-like denial two months later.

    Dave (1bb933)

  198. @190. Actually, he’s been running for the gig for 47 years; there isn’t senator alive [or almost dead] who hasn’t looked in the mirror and whispered, “Nice tie, Mister President.”

    Check ’round your home and see if you still have anything in it from Joe’s era starting in 1973.

    I found a picture frame– and my passport.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  199. Dave,

    Stop looking at things through BlameTrump-colored glasses. It’s not about him any more.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  200. Uh, considering that Biden’s campaign since May was largely centered around Trump’s inadequate response to the virus, you would think that he might have formulated a damn plan by now. Or are you suggesting his whole focus was just on trying to tie Trump to the virus, not on trying to figure out how to beat it? Of course Ol’ Joe — who teaches classes on Constitutional law, don’tcha know — was busy this past summer and fall trying to determine whether or not the President has the authority to order a national mask mandate. So I guess a committee is all we’re going to get out of him until the vaccine — which he will have little if anything to do with — eventually appears.

    You disappoint me.

    Until this morning, the only thing Biden could do to materially affect the pandemic (apart from setting a responsible example, which he has done scrupulously) was to get elected.

    Moreover, the pandemic has been, and remains, a moving target. The situation in May was not nearly as dire as it is today. Any detailed plan formulated then would have been a dead letter by now, much less in 75 days, as the case count explodes everywhere.

    He had a strategy, and he told us what it was: Science over fiction. Truth over lies.

    He will need to consult with governors, mayors and McConnell, to name a few, in addition to doctors and public health experts. None of that would have made any sense, or even been possible, prior to winning the election.

    Dave (1bb933)

  201. Now what happens when Trump tells his True Believers that the election was stolen and they have to rise up?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  202. Stop looking at things through BlameTrump-colored glasses. It’s not about him any more.

    I thought we were talking about last January…

    Dave (1bb933)

  203. @204 So far they go yell at people counting the votes.

    Nic (896fdf)

  204. JVW: #189. You know the truth: our betters just know what is best for us. What they do does not matter.

    Simon Jester, I once heard Dennis Miller on his radio show tell a story that perfectly illustrates this. He was recounting the time when he was still a progressive Democrat, and he happened to meet Robert F. Kennedy Jr. at some Hollywood party. He was introduced to Kennedy, and Miller said to him, “Hey, I really admire the work you do to protect the environment, but I have a question: Don’t you think it’s really hypocritical when politicians and entertainment people talk about reducing energy consumption, yet continue to live in giant mansions, fly chartered planes all over the world, and drive huge gas-guzzling vehicles?” Kennedy supposedly responded, “No, it’s really not about changing any one person’s consumption habits. The more important thing is to get government to impose regulations that affect the largest number of people.” If that’s a true story — and I can well believe that it is — then it goes a long way towards proving your point.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  205. @71 Americans no longer wish to be entertained. They wish to be governed.

    Glorious.

    @74 @71. Really? The Empire Strikes Back

    The saga continues: ideological conservatism has been neutered.

    Glorious.

    The landslide didn’t happen and repudiation never came. Too bad. It was a pleasant fantasy. I think DCSCA is right. Conservative ideologues have no home in the GOP. They are political orphans now.

    What Happens to the NeverTrumpers

    Purple Haze (34bae0)

  206. I’m shocked that Dana obviously doesn’t GAF about AOC and her cronies openly declaring a McCarthyite war against “Trump sycophants.” But then we all know fascism is okay when liberals do it, right Dana?

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  207. Federal judge denies GOP request to recount Clark County mail-in ballots in Nevada
    A federal judge on Friday denied emergency relief sought by Nevada Republicans late Friday seeking to change the signature verification process used in the state.

    U.S. District Court for Nevada Judge Andrew Gordon said that the relief sought by two Republican candidates in Clark County would delay vote counting.
    ……..
    “I don’t find plaintiffs have demonstrated a likelihood of success on the merits of the plaintiffs’ claims,” Gordon said. “The public interest is not in disrupting the counting of the ballots.”
    …….
    …….[T] the judge emphasized that his ruling was not decided on technicality, but rather that he decided “the plaintiff comes to court without sufficient legal showing to get what is required to obtain the extraordinary relief of an injunction.”

    The issues in the suit come before the Nevada Supreme Court, which on Tuesday unanimously rejected an emergency appeal.

    “This is before the Supreme Court in Nevada,” the judge said. “Why should I wade into their pool?”
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  208. I thought we were talking about last January…

    The public health authorities in Wuhan seem to have exhibited Trump-like denial and wish-casting for about a week at the beginning of January.

    Well, if that first week includes the last week in December and most of the rest of January, then sure.

    There were still denying human-to-human transmission on Jan 20th. They did not start a quarantine of Wuhan until Jan 23rd, after significant Lunar New Year travel and celebrations. By this time, there is already cases in the US and East Asian countries. CDC personnel are still unable to enter China.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  209. @207. In all seriousness, JVW, what I find odd is how many posting on this blog- particularly the more active, conservative minded and the policy-hungry left-headed, keep looking to “The President” to recommend/suggest/tell them ‘what to do.’ It’s sheep-like; as if they need a shepherd. The lack of self-reliance and use of basic common sense in dail life is just so odd. People who do not lead, and cannot follow either get out of the way, run over– or eaten by a T-Rex.

    “What, kid– you’ve never heard of lamp chops?” – ‘Jurassic Park’ 1993

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  210. I feel like we didn’t focus enough on the fact that someone in the Trump campaign meant to schedule the “four seasons hotel” but definitely accidentally scheduled this “four seasons landscaping” store and they had to follow through with it. Veep was not this good.

    It gets better:

    “In case you missed it, Donald Trump’s legal team is about to do a press conference outside a landscape gardeners, located between a crematorium and a dildo shop.”

    A fitting ending, if you ask me.

    Also.

    Dave (1bb933)

  211. Conservative ideologues have no home in the GOP.

    Not in a GOP whose official platform is We support Donald Trump.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  212. The landslide didn’t happen and repudiation never came.

    The greatest political mind and stable genius in American history, winner of 4 Noble Prizes, has informed us that winning 306 electoral votes is a landslide. A blowout. Historic.

    Who are you, exactly, to question him?

    Dave (1bb933)

  213. @209-
    Where will all the Trump staffers go? Preparing for the worst, the GOP ponders life after Trump.
    Four years ago, some Republicans who said unsavory things during the campaign about the new president worried that such remarks might ruin their chances of redemption via employment in the Trump administration.

    Today, …….., these GOPers are hoping the Trump presidency isn’t a disqualifying blemish on their resumes or Google footprint as the door revolves the other way and they seek to land, once again, in the private sector.

    Gaining distance from Trump and some of his more incendiary statements is likely to be an easier task for some alumni than others.
    ……..
    ……..Republicans who now work with Fortune 500 companies agree that any public defense of Trump on race and immigration — the hot-button issues on which Trump has staked his presidency — are the most problematic public positions to have taken for those seeking corporate gigs.
    ……..
    [A] longtime GOP strategist who runs a public affairs firm recalled coming close to hiring a former Trump White House staffer until a Google search revealed the prospective hire’s track record defending Trump on race and immigration. It ground the interview process to a halt, the strategist said.

    “A lot of people who came into this in 2015 and 2016, they knew that there would be a stigma going into this — and it’ll likely last for a very long time,” said a Trump campaign staffer. “Probably for the rest of their lives. I don’t think that’s lost on anyone.”
    >>>>>>>>>
    There is no need for enemy lists. Let the private sector sort it out.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  214. Our esteemed host wrote:

    Americans no longer wish to be entertained. They wish to be governed.

    Glorious.

    While the electorate rejected President Trump, I very seriously doubt that they want to be governed. I suspect that most want the government to leave them alone.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  215. I kinda feel like Borat must have been involved in that Rudy press conference, somehow.

    Dave (1bb933)

  216. 217. Speaking only for myself, I ended up pulling the lever for J.J. I’d love for government to leave me alone, but if the office of the presidency has so much power that we entertain the thought of civil war over who occupies it, the problem may be that the office itself has too much power, rather than the individual who occupies it.

    Gryph (f63000)

  217. Not in a GOP whose official platform is We support Donald Trump.

    If you can’t separate the person from the policies, you’re going to be in the wilderness for a long, long time.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  218. JVW wrote:

    Meanwhile, the fall football season in both the NCAA and NFL is just barely holding on

    I was greatly saddened that Air Force at Army was postponed. If you want to watch football the way it was meant to be played, watch Army!

    The NFL? Yeah, I pay attention to hos the Oakland (never Los Angeles and never, ever Las Vegas) Raiders are doing, but other than that?

    Of course, with ‘regional’ broadcasts, we’re stuck with the Cincinnati Bungles games anyway. Ughhh!

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  219. One thing that is clear from all this: the procedures for mail ballots — developed for a time when they were strictly absentee ballots — are insufficient to deter casual fraud and insufficient to detect mass fraud.

    Signatures are not a good method of proving identity in a positive sense, nor in a mass application. Not only is the process too slow, but it is difficult to automate and relies on human judgement and training, neither of which may be available in a mass verification attempt.

    The laws that govern these procedures often exacerbate the procedural problems (can’t start until, must complete by) as well.

    Additionally, the period of time required for the public to obtain, consider and then return these ballots smears the election process over the last month of the campaign. Maybe that’s OK if it’s 1 or 2 percent of voters, but when it’s 60% it’s NFG.

    There are ways to present a digital ballot, securely and only to chosen recipients, that preserves the secrecy of the individual choices while removing most of the uncertainties and delays of what passes today for a “system.”

    I doubt we will fix this, but we should.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  220. the problem may be that the office itself has too much power, rather than the individual who occupies it.

    A point made more understandable by Trump.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  221. DCSCA wrote:

    Some of my best friends were white-socks-open-toed-sandal-wearing-grad students— in 1978.

    Uhhh, I was a grad student in 1978, and at least in the Bluegrass State, no one wore white, or any other color, socks under sandals unless they were in their mid-60s or older.

    [Shudder!]

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  222. In all seriousness, JVW, what I find odd is how many posting on this blog- particularly the more active, conservative minded and the policy-hungry left-headed, keep looking to “The President” to recommend/suggest/tell them ‘what to do.’ It’s sheep-like; as if they need a shepherd.

    I agree wholeheartedly. I have been a broken record on this issue, so feel free to pass by if you’ve heard this from me before, but the sooner our nation stops viewing the President as some mystical embodiment of all of our hopes and aspirations and starts once again viewing the President as a chief executive who is in charge of administrating a federal government, the better off we will be. The idea that anybody would decide whether or not to wear a mask based upon what the President of the United States — a man surrounded by security detail and with access to our nation’s finest physicians — does absolutely flabbergasts me. Our last two Presidents have been obnoxious cult of personality types. No more of that nonsense: let’s get back to the days of Calvin Coolidge.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  223. Trump is the septuagenarian, white male version of Stacey Abrams, albeit one on steroids. He’ll be exceptionally reckless in the final 73 days as a lame duck President. This is where his pettiness can get dangerous.

    Since hindsight is 20/20, I wonder if congressional Republicans feel in hindsight, that impeaching and removing Trump might’ve been been the better tradeoff. Granted it would’ve raised a firestorm among the Trump base, but in an era of political tribalism I doubt that their rage would’ve been sufficient enough months down the road to not vote for Pence in November. Even with Trump gone, elements of Trumpism exist in Congress(Marjorie Taylor Greene, Gaetz, Jim Jordan, etc). I’m not holding my breath, but maybe a few election cycles of electing Non Trumpy conservatives could put Congress on better footing. The electoral has short term political attention spans, so I’m cautiously optimistic that things will improve over the long run.

    HCI (92ea66)

  224. Not in a GOP whose official platform is We support Donald Trump.

    I’m thinking that will change. He lost. Four years is a VERY long time in politics. Even without a President Trump.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)


  225. the problem may be that the office itself has too much power, rather than the individual who occupies it.

    A point made more understandable by Trump.

    Somebody, I think from NRO, tweeted yesterday a thought along the lines of “Gee, maybe now Democrats and Republicans in Congress can finally come together and start to roll back all of the power that the Executive branch has accumulated over the years. Yeah, I don’t think so either.” That’s pretty much how I feel too.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  226. One thing I’m expecting: up until the election there were few Biden bumper stickers in evidence (more for Bernie, actually). Now I expect to see cars with brand-new Biden 2020 stickers. People are funny that way.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  227. Yeah, I don’t think so either.

    Oh, they would, but only if they could have it instead.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  228. Mitt Romney, the president we need, but sadly not the president we deserve:

    Ann and I extend our congratulations to President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris. We know both of them as people of good will and admirable character. We pray that God may bless them in the days and years ahead.

    Dave (1bb933)

  229. @217. Don’t think we have to worry-

    ‘The Joe Show’ should be a highly entertaining gaffe-fest, though a short-lived sitcom; likely two seasons, tops. It’s ‘The Kamala Konspiracy’ that’ll be the West Wing drama to watch.

    Ol’Joe Biden turns 78 years old in just 13 days.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  230. Dave wrote:

    Because the last nine months prove clearly that it isn’t going to solve itself.

    Unfortunately, the majority of the GOP – cheered on by Trump and his cultists – will likely continue to obstruct the solution, albeit for different reasons than they have to date.

    The draconian ‘solutions’ were initially accepted because we were only s’posed to be locked down for two weeks, remember?

    So, now we have seemingly infinite mandatory mask orders in many states, including Kentucky, yet surprise, surprise, COVID-19 is still not only spreading but apparently spreading more widely. Governor Andy Beshear (D-KY) closed down the churches, ordered ‘non-essential;’ businesses closed, and now that they’ve been so graciously ‘allowed’ to reopen, they are still greatly restricted on how many customers can be in the building at one time. There’s even an order banning any gatherings larger than ten people, even at your own home.

    But COVID cases are increasing.

    Now “they,” whomever “they” are, are trying to develop and rush to market a COVID-19 vaccine. Normally the FDA requires years of testing before any medicine is approved, but watch out, that ain’t gonna happen this time. Mt wife, who is a hospital RN, and my older daughter, a staff sergeant in the Army Reserves, will no doubt be ordered to take this vaccine, which will have skipped so much of the normal procedures.

    So, just what more can the government actually do?

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  231. @231 I don’t think so. Politicians love it when their most extreme, desk pounding, yelled at 800 decibels ideas can’t possibly get passes, because the ideas are CRAZY and they know it. Congress people like plausible deniability, that’s why the executive branch ended up so powerful. If Congress couldn’t abrogate their responsibilities, they might have to make unpopular decisions (or decisions at all) and they can’t have that. /cynicism

    Nic (896fdf)

  232. JVW wrote:

    I have a friend who wants police officers to fine people for not wearing masks in public: $100 fine on your first offense (no warnings given), $250 fine on second offense, $500 fine on third offense, $1,000 fine on fourth offense, and then incarceration thereafter.

    Your friend, I would guess, would bristle at being called a fascist, wouldn’t she, but she apparently sees nothing wrong with the State telling people what to do.

    Here in the Bluegrass State, Governor Beshear handed authority to enforce his COVID-19 orders not to the police but to the state and local health departments, quite possibly because he knew that most county sheriffs would never enforce such.

    The only Democrat for whom I have voted this century is our local county sheriff, because I personally knew him to be an honest man and a supporter of the Second Amendment. He has already said that he would decline to enforce any orders that violate someone’s rights to keep and bear arms.

    On the local level, we have some decent, moderate Democrats.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  233. Simon Jester — the left is not celebrating because we are worshipping Biden.

    We are celebrating because we ejected Trump, who we thought was a clear and present danger to the Republic.

    aphrael (4c4719)

  234. Mr M wrote:

    The Biden team has announced the first action against Covid they’re going to take is =drum-roll=

    They’ve previously announced a plan to “get the vaccine to everyone.”

    Don’t they actually have to have a vaccine to get it to everyone”?

    If Mr Biden is going to “listen to the scientists,” does that include the scientists who have devised the FDA’s long and involved testing regimen to prove a medicine safe before approval?

    Will people be allowed to refuse the vaccine? I’m not an antivaxxer by any stretch of the imagination, but if a vaccine is ever developed, it is going to be rushed to market before FDA’s normal investigation process would have been completed.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  235. Dana in Kentucky, don’t you understand?

    People who refuse to take a Trump admin vaccine = heroes.
    People who refuse to take a Biden admin vaccine = traitors.

    EVERYTHING anyone opposes from the Biden/Harris in the next four years is a traitor, here and everywhere else. Get with the program!

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  236. Mr M wrote:

    Stop looking at things through BlameTrump-colored glasses. It’s not about him any more.

    You’re kidding, right? From January 20, 2009 through January 20, 2017, everything was George Bush’s fault. Now, from January 20, 2021 through, one can only hope, January 20, 2025, everything will be Donald Trump’s fault.

    Please make a note of it.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  237. The draconian ‘solutions’ were initially accepted because we were only s’posed to be locked down for two weeks, remember?

    No, that’s not true. Trump may have said that; nobody knowledgeable did.

    But COVID cases are increasing.

    Precautions only work to the extent people follow them. It’s not complicated.

    KY is near the national median in current daily cases (40 new cases per 100,000 per day), and the rate of increase of new cases is only 6% per week.

    The relevant comparison is to states with no measures, like North Dakota (176 new cases per 100,000 per day), and that rate is increasing by 32% per week.

    Dave (1bb933)

  238. @232. ‘Ann and I extend our congratulations to President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris. We know both of them as people of good will and admirable character. We pray that God may bless them in the days and years ahead.’

    Mormon Romney messages Catholic Joe: a ‘cult-to-cult broadcast.’ Lying about your credentials is “admirable,” Mitt? Plagiarism– which is outright theft- is the mark of a man of good “character,” Willard?

    No, Rino.

    Just no.

    And you can bet $10,000 on it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  239. @237. So it’s a personality thing– just like running for president of the student council in high school. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  240. @238 I don’t think we can really speculate on vaccine distribution under Biden yet. It’s still a long way between now and February and we have no way to know what is happening behind the scenes.

    And you can’t make people take a vaccine. You can do what we currently do with school children and say they can’t go into a school building unless they have certain vaccines, but not adults. I guess businesses could say that you can’t come to work without proof of vaccinations or states could limit a business’s ability to reopen during a certain stage of epidemic unless a certain percentage of their staff was vaccinated, buy it isn’t legal to actually make someone get vaccinated and certainly not at the national level.

    @239 I think it’s more like people were concerned that a vaccine rushed out to beat the election wouldn’t be efficacious and might be dangerous.

    Nic (896fdf)

  241. HCI wrote:

    Since hindsight is 20/20, I wonder if congressional Republicans feel in hindsight, that impeaching and removing Trump might’ve been been the better tradeoff. Granted it would’ve raised a firestorm among the Trump base, but in an era of political tribalism I doubt that their rage would’ve been sufficient enough months down the road to not vote for Pence in November.

    Similar statements were made twenty years ago. Would President Gore have received 530 more votes in Florida in 2000?

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  242. You’re right, qdpsteve: how could I have failed to know that?

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  243. Nic, I’m just sick to death of the double standards.

    “I refuse to take any Trump vaccine!! It’ll be untested and dangerous!!”
    “A Biden vaccine will by its very nature be the best most perfect elixir ever invented.”

    Because as we all know, Democrats never lie or do anything to give themselves an advantage, but Republicans always do. Dems=perfect, Repubs=evil. It’s just the way nature works. 😛

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  244. Nic wrote:

    And you can’t make people take a vaccine.

    My daughter, a staff sergeant in the Army Reserve, fully expects the order to “Present arms” once a vaccine is developed.

    My wife, a registered nurse working in a hospital, fully expects an order to take the COVID-19 vaccine or be fired.

    I think it’s more like people were concerned that a vaccine rushed out to beat the election wouldn’t be efficacious and might be dangerous.

    No one has a vaccine yet, and a couple of trials were stopped due to adverse reactions.

    The election is over, but I have to ask: when the approval process normally takes years, what difference is there for a vaccine rushed out in October of 2020 versus March of 2021? Regardless of who is President, this vaccine will be thoroughly wrapped up in politics.

    Will we have to carry a government ID card indicating we’ve been vaccinated to go outside or enter a business?

    Мы должны увидеть ваше удостоверение личности.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  245. @228. I’m thinking that will change. He lost. Four years is a VERY long time in politics. Even without a President Trump.

    I don’t. This ‘wave’ has been building since the days of Pat Buchannan, through Palin and crested w/Trump… these people haven’t given that up–they’ve tasted victory– and power; and will simply find another vessel to carry their water– and Trump will likely help w/t shopping. Goldwater helped sell Reagan. Trump will likely make a similar play– as long as the new vessel is to his liking– and telegenic.

    No ‘uglies.’ [Bob that hair, give yourself a touch of mature grey– and no pants-suits: wear dresses, Nikki!]

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  246. @247 I don’t think there’s the impetus to rush out an untested vaccine under the Biden administration.

    Obv. there are sketchy things the Dems do too, but people remember the most recent stuff first, and the most recent stuff is the Rs being sketchy and Trump being the sketchiest of sketchyness.

    @248 The military is different. They are directly under the command of the president and choose to give up certain rights when they join the military. Your wife would be being forced by the hospital, not the national government.

    As far as a government ID card, we don’t have to prove our MMR or TDAP to shop, so I would guess not.

    Nic (896fdf)

  247. @248. And you can’t make people take a vaccine.

    That’s right. Case in point; 1976- Swine Flu epidemic. Ford Administration cranked out batches of vaccine ‘recommended’ for the citizenry to take– it was even free… ‘shots for the masses’ [we through a party named same w/Jack Daniels.] Refused to get the shot; half the guys I was with did– and they got sicker than hell. Since then, I’ve never taken a gov’t recommended shot.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  248. If Mr Biden is going to “listen to the scientists,” does that include the scientists who have devised the FDA’s long and involved testing regimen to prove a medicine safe before approval?

    Both Biden and Harris said they would evaluate the vaccine based on the transparent recommendations of the medical community.

    You should understand that there are always risks involved in approving new medicines, and that the FDA testing procedures were not inscribed on tablets by the Almighty. Likely they are a (scientifically) conservative, one-size-fits-all compromise since often new drugs are only incrementally better than something already available. In the case of the first vaccine for a raging pandemic, I’m not an MD, but one would presumably weigh the dangers of later availability against the dangers of unexpected harmful complications. How much additional safety would N more months of testing provide? How many people who might have been immunized would perish during that delay?

    I think it’s likely that an overwhelming majority of immunologists will be on board with any vaccine before it’s released.

    Dave (1bb933)

  249. One can’t escape the irony of seeing all these people out in the streets, celebrating the Trump defeat, creating their own Covid super spreader events enthusiastically cheering Savior Biden’s win.

    Will MSNBC, CNN and Fox report on any spikes of Covid cases from all these street parties like they did for Trump rallies?

    Nah.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  250. I think it’s likely that an overwhelming majority of immunologists will be on board with any vaccine before it’s released.

    Dave (1bb933) — 11/7/2020 @ 4:09 pm

    And any immunologist (or doctor, or researcher, or anything) who says otherwise will get branded a traitor, lose every last one of their social media accounts anywhere, and be doxxed by the media.

    You enjoy being asleep for the next four years, Dave. Dems never do anything wrong.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  251. Dems=Imperfect, Trump=evil.

    Fixed.

    Trump repeatedly touted imminent delivery of a vaccine as a campaign promise. He has also talked about using government aid as a way to reward friendly governors or punish those insufficiently deferential and flattering.

    Given his immorality and notorious penchant for lying, one would have to be a fool to believe he wouldn’t put his short term political interests ahead of safety if he could.

    Dave (1bb933)

  252. DCSCA, they dont want no H1-B/college town Anchor Baby, when there’s real ‘Murican girls like Noem and Ernst. We ain’t Brexit granting whitedom to non-Muslim desi.

    urbanleftbehind (90d464)

  253. And any immunologist (or doctor, or researcher, or anything) who says otherwise will get branded a traitor, lose every last one of their social media accounts anywhere, and be doxxed by the media.

    It’s a pity the blog rules prohibit wagering.

    Dave (1bb933)

  254. 226.

    I agree wholeheartedly. I have been a broken record on this issue, so feel free to pass by if you’ve heard this from me before, but the sooner our nation stops viewing the President as some mystical embodiment of all of our hopes and aspirations and starts once again viewing the President as a chief executive who is in charge of administrating a federal government, the better off we will be.

    Two points. Point one: As head of government, you’re correct that the president should be viewed as “a chief executive who is in charge of administrating a federal government.” But under our system the president is also our head of state, and that makes his personal behavior representative of the nation and its people as a whole.

    The idea that anybody would decide whether or not to wear a mask based upon what the President of the United States — a man surrounded by security detail and with access to our nation’s finest physicians — does absolutely flabbergasts me.

    Point two, and concerning COVID, it’s the important one: You seem to be confusing “ought” with “is.” I see no one arguing that Trump’s cult should model their behavior on his open contempt for mask wearing. Rather, the reality is that many of them do. I doubt you’d deny that if Trump consistently advocated and practiced his own official COVID policies instead of ignoring and mocking them, many of his supporters would also, and doing so would mitigate the spread of the virus. We can only speculate how many lives that might have saved, but it’s non-zero. The predictably fatal consequences of sending that message are the product not of well-intended policy mistakes, but of Trump’s deliberate choice in service of his self-interest and ego. That blood is on his hands.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  255. I’m ready for all that healing to begin. When is Joe going to tell those Democrats burning and rioting and looting in Seattle, Portland, and DC to stop?

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  256. Everyone, get with the program: Here’s what the next four years will look like under Biden/Harris:

    – A COVID vaccine will come out that not only cures your CV19, but also your cancer, heart disease, makes you 20 years younger and better looking, and eliminated bad breath.
    – Every conservative who’s doxxed or gets censored on social media will always deserve it, because after all, anyone who opposes Biden or Harris on anything is pure evil and needs to lose everything.
    – The Chinese will always deal with us 100% fairly, and never try to take advantage of weak American trade rules.
    – Global Warming will magically end and all the endangered species will magically thrive again.
    – No one will ever lose a job, or lose good health care because they’re forced to switch to Obamacare.
    – No more kids in cages! Every single undocumented border-crosser for the next four years will be hard-working, industrious and perfect in every way. It’s impossible that anyone crossing the unsecured border could ever be of bad character in any way.
    – No more inner-city violence either! Antifa will never terrorize anyone ever again or destroy any businesses. Or if they do, it must be because of Russian disinformation, and besides, they’re just an idea anyway. It’s always just the white nationalists’ fault!

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  257. Dave, yeah it is.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  258. Dems=Imperfect, Trump=evil.

    Fixed.

    Trump repeatedly touted imminent delivery of a vaccine as a campaign promise. He has also talked about using government aid as a way to reward friendly governors or punish those insufficiently deferential and flattering.

    Given his immorality and notorious penchant for lying, one would have to be a fool to believe he wouldn’t put his short term political interests ahead of safety if he could.
    Dave (1bb933) — 11/7/2020 @ 4:20 pm

    You are starting to water down the meaning of “evil.”

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  259. “President-Elect Biden” will address the nation at 8 pm Eastern time, 7 pm Central 6 pm Mountain and 5 pm Pacific. At least on NBC where I heard it.

    The election was called because Biden passed the threshold for an automatic recount, although he might fall below that again after provisional ballots are examined.

    NBC gives him 279 Electoral votes, which would mean Georgia [16] and Nevada [6] are still outstanding and they retracted their call of Arizona [11]

    Chuck Todd said that knew for several days “mathematically” – he meant probabilistically – that Biden would win but they just didn’t know which states. (meaning there were too many states where he likely to win in the end.)

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  260. Biden wants a 100 day stay of deportations. (Trump has only 75 days left)

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  261. @259 He already has, for months. Biden has repeatedly condemned the rioting and violence and said that it was unacceptable and needed to stop.

    Nic (896fdf)

  262. The lovely thing about science is that it deals in questions of empirical fact rather than personal opinion.

    Scientists being imperfect humans, of course, sometimes honest mistakes are made, and occasionally outright fraud is attempted, but science has succeeded because it eventually finds and corrects its mistakes, no matter how they arise.

    Dave (1bb933)

  263. @263 NBC never called Arizona. Fox did and I think ABC, but NBC hasn’t. NBC has been extremely cautious about calling states.

    Nic (896fdf)

  264. DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/7/2020 @ 4:13 pm

    Will MSNBC, CNN and Fox report on any spikes of Covid cases from all these street parties like they did for Trump rallies?

    First, they need to report to Election Day spread.

    We are assured that only poll workers can get it. Voters don’t stay there long enough to get infected or give infections..

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  265. @259 He already has, for months. Biden has repeatedly condemned the rioting and violence and said that it was unacceptable and needed to stop.
    Nic (896fdf) — 11/7/2020 @ 4:30 pm

    Yet, his campaign donated money to help free the rioters from prison. Got it. [wink] He was condemning them [wink]

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  266. The lovely thing about science is that it deals in questions of empirical fact rather than personal opinion.

    Scientists being imperfect humans, of course, sometimes honest mistakes are made, and occasionally outright fraud is attempted, but science has succeeded because it eventually finds and corrects its mistakes, no matter how they arise.
    Dave (1bb933) — 11/7/2020 @ 4:30 pm

    And there has to be replicated results to “studies” that tell us several different things. Sometimes conflicting things. The Europeans, who supposedly had this COVID licked, are back in our boat again.

    But hey, Joe and his Committee of Science will find a way to stop this airborne disease in its tracks. He might not have solved any other problems in his three+ decades in Washington, but this time, Lucy won’t pull the football.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  267. @269 That didn’t happen either. Some people on the campaign staff donated to bail funds, the campaign didn’t.

    Nic (896fdf)

  268. I see that some comrades have gone past the denial and anger stages of their grief management and are now into their bargaining stage. Congratulations to them, but please to leave me out of their calculus.

    Comrades, I did not then and I do not now give a sh!t what Biden will do. My vote was a pull of the toilet handle to flush the orange sh!t that is Trump and his spear carriers. Nothing more.

    As for Biden, que sera, sera, compadres! It will be what it will be.

    nk (1d9030)

  269. Hoi, don’t forget that all Biden has to do is say “I don’t approve” and he’s off the hook for anything his supporters do, yet Trump is personally responsible forever for anything and everything that “white supremacists” do anywhere, no matter how many time he condemns them.

    It’s a complete double standard that I’ve given up trying to convince Dems of otherwise, because they don’t GAF about the facts or fairness.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  270. @269 That didn’t happen either. Some people on the campaign staff donated to bail funds, the campaign didn’t.
    Nic (896fdf) — 11/7/2020 @ 4:35 pm

    Then it sounds like he can’t lead, doesn’t it?

    So not only are we still waiting for the healing, but the leading too.

    If he can’t control his own party, how is he going to run the country?

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  271. Hoi, don’t forget that all Biden has to do is say “I don’t approve” and he’s off the hook for anything his supporters do, yet Trump is personally responsible forever for anything and everything that “white supremacists” do anywhere, no matter how many time he condemns them.

    Yup. And the media will back him up. “But Antifa aren’t really part of the left!” And the Smart Adult Liberals will nod in agreement.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  272. @274 Listen, I am not an Olympic sprinter. I cannot keep up with the speed you are moving the goal posts.

    You start with Biden needed to condemn the violence and I point out that he did.
    You move to, well his campaign donated to the and I point out that no, they didn’t.
    Now you want him to autocratically control the donations of private citizens? Are you sure that that is what you want in a leader?

    Nic (896fdf)

  273. We know both of them as people of good will and admirable character.

    Who is this “we” to whom you are referring, Mitt?

    Seriously, I will never regret my vote for Mitt Romney and I think he is a man of good will and admirable character. But just because Donald Trump is such a louse doesn’t make Joe Biden any less of a dullard and bully whose family has done awfully well by his government “service”; nor does it let Kamala Harris off the hook for her highly questionable ethics and character.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  274. Back to the glorious days of no middle east peace deals, but funneling pallets of cash to Iranian terrorists.

    NJRob (c1c35b)

  275. Comrades, I did not then and I do not now give a sh!t what Biden will do. My vote was a pull of the toilet handle to flush the orange sh!t that is Trump and his spear carriers. Nothing more.

    See, nk gets it.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  276. JVW, are you a co-blogger here?

    If that’s true then I hope you’ll call out Biden/Harris when they f*ck up, and God knows they will a ton.
    But it’s funny how so many bloggers, once they get rid of the Republican they hate, suddenly can never find anything to blog about except “hey, remember how much so-and-so sucked?” or “hey, here’s a Repub in the [House/Senate] who sucks too!…”

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  277. If he can’t control his own party, how is he going to run the country?

    So you want Joe to wield a veto not only on what his campaign employees can do with their own money, but the rest of us too? Wow.

    You may not be aware, but bail is a constitutional right.

    Dave (1bb933)

  278. For the government “science minded” from March:

    “Of course, Sanders is not the only Democratic candidate who has been angling to become a West Wing octogenarian. Biden is just one year younger (77), so according to the Social Security Administration’s mortality tables, he has a 4% to 5% chance of dying within a year. What distinguishes Sanders (and sharply increases his chance of death) is his heart attack history.

    Behavioral psychologists tell us that human beings prefer not to think probabilistically. When confronted with 20:1 odds that a septuagenarian we love will die in the next year, we convince ourselves that our beloved is one of the 19. When confronted with the fact that our favorite presidential candidate has about a 1-in-4 chance of dying within a year of his heart attack, we vote for him anyway: Death is for other people.” – ChicagoTribune, March 6, 2020

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  279. You start with Biden needed to condemn the violence and I point out that he did.
    You move to, well his campaign donated to the and I point out that no, they didn’t.
    Now you want him to autocratically control the donations of private citizens? Are you sure that that is what you want in a leader?
    Nic (896fdf) — 11/7/2020 @ 4:39 pm

    No goalpost moving. Just pointing out the liberal blather about Biden and Antifa simply does not make sense.

    First, his “condemnation” was half-hearted and lame. He talked more about Trump than the left destroying our cities.

    Second, when he put together his campaign staff, evidently he thought “hey, these dudes are great!” But they freely donate to liberate arrested Antifa terrorists. Kinda makes one wonder if his ability to pick good people…sucks.

    Third, he keeps talking about leading, but he doesn’t do it. Never has in over three decades of public service. And no he’s talking about healing, while his own party is making lists of Trump supporters, hoping to ensure they aren’t allowed around polite society again.

    So please, continue telling us about all the healing and leading.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  280. Now you want him to autocratically control the donations of private citizens? Are you sure that that is what you want in a leader?

    Yup, exactly like you held Trump 100% responsible any time anyone anywhere near his circle ever said a peep in support of right-wing radicals.
    Now regale us with tales of how much more horrible it is to support the Proud Boys than Antifa.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  281. So you want Joe to wield a veto not only on what his campaign employees can do with their own money, but the rest of us too? Wow.

    You may not be aware, but bail is a constitutional right.
    Dave (1bb933) — 11/7/2020 @ 4:43 pm

    Maybe he should pick people who don’t spend their money on liberating terrorists. There are a lot of good charities out there. I don’t think liberating Antifa is one of them. YMMV.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  282. You may not be aware, but bail is a constitutional right.

    Dave (1bb933) — 11/7/2020 @ 4:43 pm

    This, friends, from the guy who could never stop masturbating any time a Trump associate got caught doing something anywhere near questionable.

    I get it, Dave. Us Deplorables don’t have rights.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  283. Yup, exactly like you held Trump 100% responsible any time anyone anywhere near his circle ever said a peep in support of right-wing radicals.
    Now regale us with tales of how much more horrible it is to support the Proud Boys than Antifa.
    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/7/2020 @ 4:45 pm

    Forgive them, they learn it from the media.

    Media wailed about Bush, but when Obama started assassinating US citizens without due process, nary a peep, unless they were blaming Bush.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  284. Hoi Polloi, oh but don’t you understand? Only Russian-owned assets like Glenn Greenwald cared about that. Anyone who doesn’t believe Trump, his admin, and anyone who supports him is 100% evil, must be either a Russia stooge, crony or brainwashed.

    But dare even suggest that Biden is unduly influenced by the Chinese in any way, and count the seconds until you get called a traitor.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  285. @279. “Comrades, I did not then and I do not now give a sh!t what Biden will do. My vote was a pull of the toilet handle to flush the orange sh!t that is Trump and his spear carriers. Nothing more.

    ‘See, nk gets it.’

    As do I.

    Marvin— now what?” – Senator-elect Bill McKay [Robert Redford] ‘The Candidate’ 1972

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  286. @283 It only doesn’t make sense if you believe the lies and since you must have watched Biden condemn the violence in order to say it was half hearted, then you were either knowingly untruthful when you said he hadn’t, that or you are knowingly untruthful in implying you know he was half-hearted because you didn’t see it.

    If you have truthful and honest points to make, then make them, but so far you have not been an honest broker in this conversation.

    @284 Are you sure you are talking about me? I don’t generally talk about Antifa, since I think they are mostly idiots. I have very little respect for anarchists in general.

    Nic (896fdf)

  287. 4.Clinton’s people allegedly stole keys off of keyboards before leaving the WH.

    Biden’s people will find keyboards with the CAP LOCK keys glued down.

    No.

    Rotary phones.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  288. he situation with Black Lives Matter and Antifa is very similar to that of Martin Luther King’s demonstrations in the early to mid 1960s, with the only difference being that this is time it is the police, and other law enforcement who are following the philosophy of non-violence. (to the extent practicable)

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  289. Nic, do you believe Trump ever condemned the white supremacists and their beliefs? Yes or no?

    If your answer is ‘no,’ then it’s clear to me that you only see what you want to see.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  290. JVW, are you a co-blogger here?

    Is best not to grow too attached to Comrade JVW.

    Comrade Harris have long memory.

    Gabbard clique so small, nobody notice purge.

    Dave (1bb933)

  291. The celebrations are about 4 days premature.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  292. Dave, no joke:
    I honestly can’t tell you how many conservatives I’ve heard from who would have loved to see Tulsi get the nomination.
    She made it clear she saw Repubs, and even Trump supporters, as people who need to be reached out to and *worked with*, rather than insects to be crushed (as Kamala believes).

    Sure, people would still be pissed Trump lost, but Tulsi would be such an improvement over Joe/Kamala it’s not even funny.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  293. Sammy, you’re probably correct about that.

    Last I heard, SCOTUS is pissed. (Not that they can do anything about it.)

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  294. CBS News has a special report, (with Norah O’Donnell anchoring) but NBC doesn’t.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  295. @283 It only doesn’t make sense if you believe the lies and since you must have watched Biden condemn the violence in order to say it was half hearted, then you were either knowingly untruthful when you said he hadn’t, that or you are knowingly untruthful in implying you know he was half-hearted because you didn’t see it.

    No, I think he lied. Period. He said the right thing, but it was all BS.
    If he meant it, he would have called them out by name. He never did. The media made a big spectacle about having Trump call out right-wing groups by name. Biden? Nah.

    Ask yourself this, when the left tried to burn down a federal building in Portland, after cementing the doors shut, did Biden call for their arrest? Did he call for them to go to prison?

    Nope.

    Spare me the sanctimonious bull. Biden’s not a decent guy. He’s a politician and a scummy one at that. He’s plagiarized and lied his whole life. So much so that he can’t even tell the truth about his own life.

    Remember – he’s the one who said Obama was clean and articulate for a black guy.

    But hey, Trump’s the racist.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  296. Sure, people would still be pissed Trump lost, but Tulsi would be such an improvement over Joe/Kamala it’s not even funny.

    Enjoy, Comrade!

    Dave (1bb933)

  297. “But they freely donate to liberate arrested Antifa terrorists.”

    What is the purpose of bail?

    “Us Deplorables don’t have rights.”

    Same question.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  298. Nic, do you believe Trump ever condemned the white supremacists and their beliefs? Yes or no?

    If your answer is ‘no,’ then it’s clear to me that you only see what you want to see.
    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/7/2020 @ 5:01 pm

    Of course he did. Right before he equivocated.

    Just like he condemned David Duke. Right after he equivocated.

    If you doubt that white supremacists hear the dog whistle in Trump’s mixed messages, just ask them.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  299. “But hey, Trump’s the racist.”

    Trump is a racist. Biden isn’t antifa.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  300. @293 Sometimes he said that he did, sometimes he said things to support them. Sometimes he said ridiculous things to avoid having to condemn them (never heard of David Duke, FFS).

    Nic (896fdf)

  301. Governor Larry Hogan has some wise advice for President-Elect Biden.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  302. nk wrote:

    Comrades, I did not then and I do not now give a sh!t what Biden will do. My vote was a pull of the toilet handle to flush the orange sh!t that is Trump and his spear carriers. Nothing more.

    And that, I suspect motivated more people than just you.

    But I find it unusual that a man of strong opinions such as yourself could ever say that he does not care what the next President will do. Perhaps you were simply exercising hyperbole?

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  303. Nic and lurker, thanks for responding so I can see your double standards.

    This narrative that Biden is some paragon of virtue next to Trump is utter bullshit.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  304. White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows has tested positive for Covid-19, along with four other White House staffers. It is believed some campaign or Trump related event is responsible.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  305. What the **** am I in moderation for, Patterico?
    Nothing I’ve said has been any more heated or accusatory that a lot of the pro-Biden stuff here.
    So calling Trump supporters “death cultists” a la Dave is okay, but defending ourselves isn’t?

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  306. Oops, never mind. I used the S word.
    I retract my comment at 309.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  307. Perhaps you were simply exercising hyperbole?

    In.con.ceiv.able!

    Dave (1bb933)

  308. JVW (ee64e4) — 11/7/2020 @ 8:47 am

    I think we should retire all of that Resistance stuff and instead dub ourselves the Dissidents. Like the Dissidents in the Soviet Union, we demand to be able to freely speak our minds, we won’t be bullied into believing whatever mandatory groupthink is all the rage in entertainment, academia, and the media, and we aren’t going to just blindly accept the word of the “experts” without requiring them to show their work.

    This used to be the default. I’m not disagreeing with you, Dissident sounds good, but it’s unfortunate that we need a word for that.

    I was flipping the channels and a “news personality” was explaining how Americans are jubilant at the media’s announcement. I was hoping that if Trump lost we’d at least try to roll back some of the crazy.

    frosty (f27e97)

  309. In non-election news I hear Hyper Bole LV in February should be a fantastic football matchup.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  310. It was considered perfectly normal and patriotic by the left to be in The Resistance to Donald Trump. Does the same apply to those who will do whatever they can to frustrate the Democrats’ agenda for the next four years?

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  311. Speeches have not yet started (Kamala Harris will speak first) so general coverage and some talk on CBS.

    One CBS correspondent took a straw poll of people at some celebratory assembly in the street in New York and asked them were they happy that Trump had lost or that Biden had won.

    16 said that Trump had lost, 14 said both, 2 said Biden winning.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  312. frosty, unfortunately it won’t.

    One of the few columnists who I can still stand to read, Ruben Navarette (who is *not* a Trump fan), made a great point some time ago that journalists *love* Dem admins, because they can “go to sleep” the whole time and just transcribe official WH announcements. I absolutely expect that to happen for the next four years.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  313. I’m shocked that Dana obviously doesn’t GAF about AOC and her cronies openly declaring a McCarthyite war against “Trump sycophants.” But then we all know fascism is okay when liberals do it, right Dana?

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/7/2020 @ 2:25 pm

    Well, this is certainly an aggressive reaction. And frankly, uncalled for. Because I haven’t posted about something *you* think I should be posting doesn’t necessarily mean that I don’t care. It might mean that, or it might mean that I hadn’t heard about it, or it might even mean that on the very day that a long, drawn out presidential election was finally decided, AOC is way on the back burner. Further, in case you were unaware of it, the weekend open thread is the opportunity for *you* to post about any story that you find interesting and think other readers will too. I say this at the beginning of every weekend open thread post. But I get it. It’s just so much easier to bad mouth me for not giving a f*** than doing the work yourself.

    Dana (6995e0)

  314. Trump is a racist. Biden isn’t antifa.

    Trump is the only reason you lefties stopped calling all Republicans racists. But, that’s making a comeback.

    beer ‘n pretzels (c4008f)

  315. Dana in Kentucky, no of course not.
    Like I said earlier, us Deplorables don’t have any rights. Media will be sure to drill that into our heads for the foreseeable future.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  316. Very few congratulatory phone calls from Republicans. 6 House members and one Senator.Trump’s campaign says he can still win.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  317. qdpsteve wrote:

    In non-election news I hear Hyper Bole LV in February should be a fantastic football matchup.

    Will any spectators be allowed?

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  318. Dana, AOC is on the “back burner”?? Really?

    The entire media’s been talking about how she’s likely to be a thought leader in the Biden admin, but her calling for McCarthyite lists doesn’t interest you enough to make a part of the open thread. Wow.

    Yeah, my reaction was aggressive, but at the same time you could stand to escape your bubble from time to time.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  319. Ever wonder what the color of bad breath looks like when it lectures you in a pants-suit?

    Witness Kamala Harris.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  320. What is the purpose of bail?

    If Trump staffers bailed out Proud Boys you’d classify this as a ridiculous question.

    beer ‘n pretzels (c4008f)

  321. Davethulhu (6e0d47) — 11/7/2020 @ 5:09 pm

    “But they freely donate to liberate arrested Antifa terrorists.”

    What is the purpose of bail?

    In this case it was a VP raising money via their political campaign apparatus to get them back on the street to continue rioting and looting.

    frosty (f27e97)

  322. Also Dana, re your “back burner” comment:

    Steve Bannon isn’t even on the stove, as he’s been out of the Trump admin for some time. Yet, there was plenty of space here to hyperventilate over his “heads on pikes” comments recently, in the middle of all this election news.

    Funny how any Trump supporter’s overheated comment anywhere is something you and others here think should be panicked about, but AOC’s aren’t. AOC holds an actual position of power; Bannon doesn’t run anything but this mouth.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  323. Mr Snowman wrote:

    I think we should retire all of that Resistance stuff and instead dub ourselves the Dissidents. Like the Dissidents in the Soviet Union, we demand to be able to freely speak our minds, we won’t be bullied into believing whatever mandatory groupthink is all the rage in entertainment, academia, and the media, and we aren’t going to just blindly accept the word of the “experts” without requiring them to show their work. (JVW)

    This used to be the default. I’m not disagreeing with you, Dissident sounds good, but it’s unfortunate that we need a word for that.

    Dissident is a solitary word, invoking images of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn writing voluminously, but doing so mostly alone. Resistance conjures the images of the free French, taking actual action against the German occupiers.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  324. “In this case it was a VP raising money via their political campaign apparatus to get them back on the street to continue rioting and looting.”

    No it wasn’t. But you also didn’t answer the question.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  325. Does the same apply to those who will do whatever they can to frustrate the Democrats’ agenda for the next four years?

    Nope, sorry. Please recall:

    2001-2009 dissent was patriotic
    2009-2017 dissent was racist
    2017-2021 dissent was the height of virtue
    2021- dissent is bitterness, racist, sexist, ableist, anti-queer, and patriarchal

    Sorry, them’s the rules. Nothing I can do about it.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  326. 234. The Dana in Kentucky (45337e) — 11/7/2020 @ 3:17 pm

    Now “they,” whomever “they” are, are trying to develop and rush to market a COVID-19 vaccine.

    Wrong solution.

    Thus is the solution:

    https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/11/06/931795256/federal-supply-deal-for-covid-19-antibody-treatment-lacks-some-customary-protect

    They’re complaining that Regeneron is conspiring to make a profit. They can’t make an oscene rofit unless the thing works.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  327. This floozie is a mere heart-beat away of a 78 year old man who has had two brain surgeries from being becoming the most powerful person on Earth; a person who was soundly rejected her own party; wholly despise by her opposition and who by the pluck of luck, may very well be the least prepared person to inevitably assume the presidency since Dan Quayle. And she just peed on Walter Mondale.

    Xi smiling; Vlad is laughing.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  328. Everyone, what is an ‘oscene rofit’?

    First to guess correctly wins a cookie via the USB Port. :-)

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  329. Dissident is a solitary word, invoking images of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn writing voluminously, but doing so mostly alone.

    Point taken. But it doesn’t have to be solitary.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  330. @299 You didn’t say that, you said Biden needed to condemn the rioting and violence which he had already done, and then you said you knew he’d done it, but had been half-hearted. That isn’t “I thought he lied.” that’s being untruthful about what you knew or didn’t know.

    “The deadly violence we saw overnight in Portland is unacceptable. Shooting in the streets of a great American city is unacceptable” You can complain that he didn’t use the magic “arrest” word, but what do you think happens to people who unacceptably break the law?

    You want to complain about real things Biden had done, do it, but don’t be dishonest about it.

    And yes, Trump does appear to have some racist tendencies. They got him in trouble in a court of law IIRC. Other people have them as well, but we have a lot of documentation for Trump’s.

    @311 Give it a couple of days, people will calm down.

    @328 People love dissent when it’s their side dissenting and hate it when it isn’t. Fox loved the Tea Party. MSNBC made fun of them. MSNBC loved the Resistors, Fox made fun of them.

    Nic (896fdf)

  331. Kamala Harris: Every little girl watching tonight sees that this is a country of possibilities.

    Did anyone really doubt this before?

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  332. Everyone, what is an ‘oscene rofit’?

    We don’t generally get hung up on typos here; we tend to give commenters the benefit of the doubt. Please be advised going forward.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  333. Kamala Harris: Every little girl watching tonight sees that this is a country of possibilities.

    Sure is a messy way to get your start in politics, though.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  334. JVW, fair enough. Just trying to lighten the mood after I helped darken it.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  335. @334. We could ask astronaut Kate Rubins but she’s busy at work aboard the International Space Station.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  336. @334 I suspect you mean “in recent years”. Because there were a he!! of a lot of little girls who had very limited possibilities, not that far in the past.

    Nic (896fdf)

  337. This is a campaign speech.

    But folks, ‘joy across the world’ -seriously????????????

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  338. @277

    Who is this “we” to whom you are referring, Mitt?

    It’s right there in the statement: “Ann and I.” He was speaking for exactly two people.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  339. qdpsteve chuckled over Mr Finkelman’s typo:

    Everyone, what is an ‘oscene rofit’?

    An obscene profit is a figment of the imagination among the left; the only truly obscene profit is a loss.

    From the Ferengi Rules of Acquisition:

    3 – The best deal is the one that brings the most profit.
    13 – Anything worth doing is worth doing for money.
    18 – A Ferengi without profit is no Ferengi at all.
    21 – Never place friendship above profit.
    41 – Profit is its own reward.
    88 – Ask not what your profits can do for you, but what you can do for your profits.
    97 – Enough… is never enough.
    261 – A wealthy man can afford anything except a conscience.
    266 – When in doubt, lie.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  340. Biden plans immediate flurry of executive orders to reverse Trump policies
    ……..
    He will rejoin the Paris climate accords, according to those close to his campaign and commitments he has made in recent months, and he will reverse President Trump’s withdrawal from the World Health Organization. He will repeal the ban on immigration from many Muslim-majority countries, and he will reinstate the program allowing “dreamers,” who were brought to the United States illegally as children, to remain in the country, according to people familiar with his plans.
    ……..
    A Republican-held Senate — or even one with a narrow Democratic majority — probably will affect Biden’s Cabinet picks given the Senate’s power to confirm nominees.
    …….
    One option being discussed is appointing Cabinet members in an acting capacity, a tactic that Trump also used.
    …….
    Without congressional cooperation, however, Biden has said that he plans to immediately reverse Trump’s rollback of 100 public health and environmental rules that the Obama administration had in place.
    …….
    Making a clear break from the Trump administration’s adversarial posture toward the civil service is also a top priority for the Biden transition team.
    …….

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  341. ‘6’ folks said so far…. all that’s missing from this speech is Stockdale’s famed ‘Who am I and why am I here?’ line.

    He’s gonna name a committee to write a report so he can create plan.

    My God. click-click– Mr. Biden, General McClellan is on the telegraph for you.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  342. A little over the top, Joe, you are no Lincoln or Kennedy, or even an Obama.

    Nic (896fdf)

  343. Kamala Harris: Every little girl watching tonight sees that this is a country of possibilities.

    Like the possibility for a Woman of Color to play second fiddle to a white man, with her only possibility of promotion being if he croaks? :)

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  344. Kamala Harris: Every little girl watching tonight sees that this is a country of possibilities.

    Did anyone really doubt this before?

    Some here argued that she would cost Biden the election. Guess not.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  345. It’s right there in the statement: “Ann and I.” He was speaking for exactly two people.

    You’re right. I owe Mitt an apology, though I do question his judgement. But I suppose it’s easy to overlook the flaws of your colleagues, especially in moments like this.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  346. And now I have On Eagle’s Wings stuck in my head. Sigh.

    Nic (896fdf)

  347. Kamala Harris: Every little girl watching tonight sees that this is a country of possibilities.

    What’s also galling about this is that it is the type of thing someone should say in reference to you, not that you should say in reference to yourself. So it seems like we aren’t entirely done with abject narcissists in the White House, are we?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  348. Good speech other than the bit about him being an inflection point and a bit of trouble with his stutter at one point.

    @350 Anyone who runs for President has an ego problem, by definition. 😛

    Nic (896fdf)

  349. @343:
    He will rejoin the Paris climate accords

    he will reverse President Trump’s withdrawal from the World Health Organization

    Just the beginning.

    Own it, Biden supporters.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  350. ‘7’ folks:

    “Never gives up. Never gives in.” -Joe Biden 11/7/2020

    Biden just plagiarized Hubert Humphrey:

    “Never give in and never give up.” – Hubert H. Humphrey

    And Hollywood:

    Never give up, never surrender!” – Galaxy Quest, 1999

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  351. Empty platitudinous dreck, badly delivered, thy name is Joseph Robinette Biden.

    He’s older than Reagan was the day he shuffled off to California.

    We really going back to this crap?

    Funny, didn’t introduce Hunter.

    Bugg (ebf485)

  352. Well, Hunter Biden will be the Uday Hussein of the Biden admin.

    “Hunter raped you this morning? Never happened. Bye. *click*”

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  353. Some here argued that she would cost Biden the election. Guess not.

    They kept her quiet. Her speech tonight–when so many were watching- was about as inspiring as a marriage proposal from Wally Cox.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  354. Neither Kamala nor Joe is a very good speaker, but I thought the content of both speeches was spot on.

    It’s time to put this country back together again.

    Dave (1bb933)

  355. @356-
    Who?

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  356. Rip, I’ll assume you’re trying to be funny/friendly and respond LOL.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  357. @358. Exactly. Look him up.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  358. He will rejoin the Paris climate accords

    OMG we’ll have to submit a non-binding report on carbon emissions every year!

    he will reverse President Trump’s withdrawal from the World Health Organization

    Good!

    Dave (1bb933)

  359. @357.

    ‘7’ folks, a committee to write a report to make a plan– and more plagiarism.

    Yep.

    Spot on.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  360. Dave, yup. Also, DeVos is out, so now any man who’s even suspected of sexual harassment on any college campus can be automatically railroaded into expulsion, public shame and bankruptcy.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  361. Also, DeVos is out, so now any man who’s even suspected of sexual harassment on any college campus can be automatically railroaded into expulsion, public shame and bankruptcy.

    LOL

    Dave (f076aa)

  362. He’s older than Reagan was the day he shuffled off to California.

    Hell, he’s 15 years older than when FDR began his 4th term and died in office.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  363. Dave, you can laugh all you want but Obama’s “Dear Colleague” letter made it pretty obvious that men, and especially men who are socially awkward, are effectively banned from college campus.

    But if you like that and think it’s cool, great.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  364. But I find it unusual that a man of strong opinions such as yourself could ever say that he does not care what the next President will do. Perhaps you were simply exercising hyperbole?

    No. No hyperbole at all. An understatement if anything. That Trump had driven me to not caring who replaced him as long as he was gone was one of the reasons I wanted him gone.

    nk (1d9030)

  365. nk: nice to see you don’t care if people suffer, so long as you get your way.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  366. Without congressional cooperation, however, Biden has said that he plans to immediately reverse Trump’s rollback of 100 public health and environmental rules that the Obama administration had in place.

    This would be unfortunate. I hope Mitch is able to negotiate to avoid this in exchange for something of less tangible value.

    Time123 (9f42ee)

  367. @367. nk, 70 million people voted for Trump. He- his persona that is- may be out of office, but what he represented clearly remains a force– and by the vote count, it is stronger now than it was in 2016.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  368. Dave, you can laugh all you want but Obama’s “Dear Colleague” letter made it pretty obvious that men, and especially men who are socially awkward, are effectively banned from college campus.

    That’s not true. Just as in civil court cases, the “preponderance of the evidence” standard favors neither party.

    But if you like that and think it’s cool, great.

    I like a neutral standard, yes.

    Dave (f076aa)

  369. “Never gives up. Never gives in.” -Joe Biden 11/7/2020

    Oh, so now he’s claiming that he didn’t drop out of the 1988 and 2008 Presidential primaries?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  370. That’s not true. Just as in civil court cases, the “preponderance of the evidence” standard favors neither party.

    Comparing our nation’s judicial system with the garbage that goes on in academic star chambers is a bit rich. Even the leftist LA Times editorial board agrees that many of the changes that DeVos implemented were reasonable and welcome. If Biden tosses them out in toto we’ll know that he isn’t at all serious about trying to call a truce in the culture wars.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  371. The Trumps of the world should not be allowed power over the lives, liberty, and property of other people.

    nk (1d9030)

  372. Dave has his conservatism dialed up to eleven.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  373. Neither Kamala nor Joe is a very good speaker, but I thought the content of both speeches was spot on.

    It’s time to put this country back together again.
    Dave (1bb933) — 11/7/2020 @ 6:03 pm

    Too bad neither are the people to do it.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  374. BnP, yeah but his drummers keep dying on him.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  375. Nic (896fdf) — 11/7/2020 @ 5:43 pm

    @334 I suspect you mean “in recent years”. Because there were a he!! of a lot of little girls who had very limited possibilities, not that far in the past.

    This is an oddly vague claim. How many many is a he!! of a lot? What constitutes “very limited”? When is “not that far in the past”? Are we talking the last 50 years? More? Less?

    Harris is making a bland narcissistic statement. If you’re going to be defending this low level stuff you’re going to be busy for the next few years.

    frosty (f27e97)

  376. DCSCA, those cultists and their alien faith’s patrimony played a big part on their being no speech on NBC (Notre Dame 23 – Clemson 16, 3rd Q)

    urbanleftbehind (90d464)

  377. Comparing our nation’s judicial system with the garbage that goes on in academic star chambers is a bit rich. Even the leftist LA Times editorial board agrees that many of the changes that DeVos implemented were reasonable and welcome. If Biden tosses them out in toto we’ll know that he isn’t at all serious about trying to call a truce in the culture wars.
    JVW (ee64e4) — 11/7/2020 @ 6:35 pm

    Yep. Most rational people would agree that Trump’s decision was wise. But leftists who don’t like the American people to enjoy due process know they can simply undue it and say “well, we are just undoing Trump” and 74 million people will cheer.

    Until it happens to their son.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  378. frosty, what we need is a Democrat auto-translator.

    Kamala: “This is the country for a little girl’s dreams to thrive!!”
    Translator: “Affirmative action now, affirmative action forever.”

    Joe: “We need to do everything we can to level the playing field for everyone!”
    Translator: “We’re gonna raise your taxes like crazy in the name of social justice and force you to claim you love it!”

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  379. JVW and Hoi Polloi, yup! Thanks for backing me up on this.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  380. It looks like the CBS News special report is going to go on til at least 10 pm tonight – and they;ll even show us the borard of states.

    They said some foreign leaders; were quicker to call Biden the winner than some news organizations, Juston Trudeau not only tweeted or posted some words, he put up apicture of him self and Joe Biden.

    Jow Biden delivered a coherent speech – some of it almost plagiarized from Barack Obama (not red states or blue states but the United States) – I think actually you’re allowed to borrow rhetoric – and he quoted some other people without attribution.

    He said this was an inflection point – the others were 1860, 1932 1960 and 2008 he seemed to say./

    Some good words. He made only one major flub. He again said millions when he meant thousands but this time corrected himself without even taking a breath. The word million must have a every strong readiness to come out of his mouth when he wants to name abig number.

    He said “230 million/thousand” people in the United States died of Covid.

    He may have said – but in a very hinting way – that the election returns said he needed to work wth Republicans.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  381. Biden said his wife is a teacher and they will have an educator in thwe White House,

    Which does not sound good to me.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  382. Until it happens to their son.

    So, if turns out that there’s only, say, an 80% chance that some fratboy date-raped your daughter, she’ll just have sit in the same classroom with him for four years, or find a different school to attend?

    Dave (1bb933)

  383. Sammy, if Joe can actually stick around, and is sincere about working with Republicans, that’s a welcome change and I would applaud him for it.

    But the problem is, even if he really really wants to, none of us have any idea how long he’ll stick around. And if you think I don’t like Joe, well, I especially don’t like Kamala, who appears to openly love to hate conservatives and their values.

    We will see how things shake out, but I have a hard time believing Repubs don’t have good reasons to be pessimistic.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  384. Because I haven’t posted about something *you* think I should be posting doesn’t necessarily mean that I don’t care. It might mean that, or it might mean that I hadn’t heard about it, or it might even mean that on the very day that a long, drawn out presidential election was finally decided, AOC is way on the back burner.

    When I was a busier blogger, Dana, I always found it immature when commenters said “how come you didn’t write about that” or “why didn’t you say it this way”, as if they were unable to chime in for themselves. I considered those reactions backdoor personal attacks and frontdoor uncivil. I understand why you would find it, uh, irritating. You can write whatever you damn well please, with no obligations to dance to the whims of others.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  385. Dave, apparently you have zero appreciation for the absolute circus that campus (and workplace) sexual harassment claims have become.

    If you want to buy wholesale into the woke feminist *9 out of every 5 women are raped on campus” narrative, go nuts. But it isn’t true and has been debunked so many times it’s note even funny anymore.

    Meanwhile, men who so much as have social anxiety are being chased off campus by SJWs. But again, hey, it’s not your problem, you’re Mr. Smooth with the ladies and they all love you to death, so why should you have any empathy with falsely or overzealously prosecuted males?

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  386. Comparing our nation’s judicial system with the garbage that goes on in academic star chambers is a bit rich.

    Wait, I thought that was the complaint – that these administrative hearings aren’t sufficiently court-like.

    Dave (1bb933)

  387. Paul, nice white knighting you’re doing there.

    If Trumpies were openly making “lists” of everyone who worked on the Biden campaign and promising to punish everyone on them one way or another, I have a strong hunch you’d feel differently.

    Again, I’m sick of the double standards. If you want to scream your head off when Trump’s buddies do something, you don’t get to stick your head in the sand and ignore it when your own side is at least as guilty.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  388. Rip, I’ll assume you’re trying to be funny/friendly and respond LOL.

    Seriously I never heard of him. I guess I’m much younger than you.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  389. Rip, you never heard of Uday Hussein?
    His horrific exploits while his dad Saddam was running Iraq are legendary, as well as chilling. Look Uday up sometime.
    It was so bad, even Saddam more or less disowned him, although he never stopped Uday’s reign of terror.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  390. @393-
    I was referring to Wally Cox.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  391. Dave, apparently you have zero appreciation for the absolute circus that campus (and workplace) sexual harassment claims have become.

    I’m a professor, so I’m required to take a two-hour training course on the sexual harassment laws and procedures every two years. So my view, unlike yours, is entirely grounded in reality.

    If you want to buy wholesale into the woke feminist *9 out of every 5 women are raped on campus” narrative, go nuts. But it isn’t true and has been debunked so many times it’s note even funny anymore.

    Now you’re just making stuff up. We were talking about whether an individual who is accused of sexual harassment by another individual should have the process biased in their favor. You have said the answer is yes. I think the process should favor the side who presents the greater weight of evidence.

    Meanwhile, men who so much as have social anxiety are being chased off campus by SJWs. But again, hey, it’s not your problem, you’re Mr. Smooth with the ladies and they all love you to death, so why should you have any empathy with falsely or overzealously prosecuted males?

    Cool story. Your flights of narrative fancy are very creative.

    Dave (1bb933)

  392. @379 When my mother was a little girl in the 50s and 60s, there were basically 3 jobs you could have, teacher, nurse, secretary. A few girls managed to do something else, but mostly it was teacher, nurse, secretary. My mother couldn’t have a credit card in her own name until the late 70s. I had to fight my HS to take the SATs instead of only the ACTs in the early 90s because of course I’d go to college locally (hell no). I was doing 4 yr plans in the mid 2000s and the girls who belonged to a large local church all told me they were going to get married and stay home as their parents nodded along. Even today there are girls in some communities who don’t have a lot of choices other than to get married.

    And beyond that, Sally Ride meant something. Even though I really really didn’t like Sarah Palin, if McCain had been elected, seeing her on the stage would’ve said something. Even if Biden wasn’t my choice as president, as a Catholic, seeing him up there as only the second Catholic to be president in the entire history of the country says something. Seeing Harris, even though I’m not a big fan, says something. For african-american people I’m sure that seeing Obama and then Harris up there says something. I’m sure that for Indian Americans seeing Harris up there, regardless of who they voted for (and there are a lot of conservative Indian Americans), it said something.

    Sometimes, even when you know something is theoretically possible, seeing it happen can be important.

    Nic (896fdf)

  393. So, if turns out that there’s only, say, an 80% chance that some fratboy date-raped your daughter, she’ll just have sit in the same classroom with him for four years, or find a different school to attend?

    Seriously Dave, do you have kids? Because this is a question that no sane parent would ask.

    If there was a 5% chance, and the school disciplined and expelled the frat boy, my kid is outta that school anyway.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  394. Dave, the campus “courts” are right out of a cartoon.

    Their standard is “this woman says you [raped/sexually harassed] her, and women never lie about sexual misdeeds. Also, you have a penis. Therefore, you are guilty and expelled immediately.”

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  395. Dave, you’re a professor? Glad you shared that, thanks. It explains a lot, especially why you are so unempathetic to male defendants in sexual harassment cases.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  396. (rereading, it looks like I was implying I didn’t vote for Biden. I did, I don’t want to mislead anyone, so that sentence abt Biden should read, Even if Biden hadn’t been…)

    Nic (896fdf)

  397. If there was a 5% chance, and the school disciplined and expelled the frat boy, my kid is outta that school anyway.

    Interesting. Expelling the guy supposedly ruins his life, but you will self-expel your daughter, the victim, even if the offender is removed and even if she wants to stay?

    Why?

    Dave (1bb933)

  398. Dave, if by “biased in their favor” you mean “innocent until PROVEN guilty,” then yes, I am biased.

    Campus “courts” instead go by “whichever person is the member of the most ‘disenfranchised’ group, according to our campus’ most woke SJW students, is automatically telling the truth, and everyone else is lying, guilty or both.”

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  399. Dave, the campus “courts” are right out of a cartoon.

    Their standard is “this woman says you [raped/sexually harassed] her, and women never lie about sexual misdeeds. Also, you have a penis. Therefore, you are guilty and expelled immediately.”

    LOL.

    Are you a novelist? You really have a talent for creative writing.

    Dave (1bb933)

  400. Dave, fine, enjoy your nice little leftist bubble.
    It’s pointless trying to talk about reality to people like you.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  401. “Campus “courts” instead go by “whichever person is the member of the most ‘disenfranchised’ group, according to our campus’ most woke SJW students, is automatically telling the truth, and everyone else is lying, guilty or both.””

    How often do you think this happens?

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  402. So, if turns out that there’s only, say, an 80% chance that some fratboy date-raped your daughter, she’ll just have sit in the same classroom with him for four years, or find a different school to attend?
    Dave (1bb933) — 11/7/2020 @ 6:48 pm

    Well, Dave, if my daughter thought she was raped, I would tell her to go to the police. You know, the people trained at doing investigations like these.

    But I forgot, you Democrats hate the police. Want to defund them.

    Instead, the boy should go in front of a university star chamber that won’t allow him his legal rights.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  403. Donald Trump 12/30/2014:

    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.

    Donald Trump 11/7/2020:

    THE OBSERVERS WERE NOT ALLOWED INTO THE COUNTING ROOMS. I WON THE ELECTION, GOT 71,000,000 LEGAL VOTES. BAD THINGS HAPPENED WHICH OUR OBSERVERS WERE NOT ALLOWED TO SEE. NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE. MILLIONS OF MAIL-IN BALLOTS WERE SENT TO PEOPLE WHO NEVER ASKED FOR THEM!

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  404. Davethulhu, okay that’s an overstatement but campus “courts” are still a joke, and largely run by ‘woke’ anti-male feminists.

    Don’t take my word for it. Go to The College Fix, Campus Reform, and other sites and look up what they have to report on sexual harassment cases on campus. Is everyone there really lying?

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  405. How often do you think this happens?
    Davethulhu (6e0d47) — 11/7/2020 @ 7:13 pm

    Once is too much. Welcome to the United States.

    But I forgot Democrats come from a long line of people who deny other citizens their due rights.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  406. “Once is too much. Welcome to the United States.”

    Ooh, let’s talk about police brutality next.

    “But I forgot, you Democrats hate the police. Want to defund them.”

    Oh hmm, somehow I think your opinion will be different.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  407. @401: Dave, having your kid walk around campus as the person who got a frat boy expelled for date rape based on slim evidence is a terrible plan.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  408. Dave, if by “biased in their favor” you mean “innocent until PROVEN guilty,” then yes, I am biased.

    Talking past the issue, which is what standard of proof is required.

    In a dispute between two individuals, the process should not favor either based on who they are. It should favor the one who presents the greater weight of evidence. That was the rule in the Obama administration, just as it is the rule in civil courts.

    Campus “courts” instead go by “whichever person is the member of the most ‘disenfranchised’ group, according to our campus’ most woke SJW students, is automatically telling the truth, and everyone else is lying, guilty or both.”

    Still making stuff up.

    Have there been cases where guys have been treated unfairly? Yes. Women? Yes. The same is true in the legal system.

    Let me let you in on a little secret – universities don’t do this because they want to, they do it because they are required to do so by law, and failure to make an adequate remedy when someone is harassed exposes the university (which for a public school like mine means the taxpayers of the state) to 7- or 8-figure liability to the victim.

    Likewise, avoiding liability is not consistent with decisions which are later overturned resulting in exposure to liability to the accused.

    So your little fantasy world where universities behave capriciously and indefensibly has nothing to do with reality. Doing the right thing (following the evidence impartially) is also the smart thing (avoiding huge settlements). And the training we receive in California is oriented, 100%, to following the law to the letter and avoiding screw-ups or bias that lead to civil liability.

    Dave (1bb933)

  409. Ooh, let’s talk about police brutality next.

    “But I forgot, you Democrats hate the police. Want to defund them.”

    Oh hmm, somehow I think your opinion will be different.
    Davethulhu (6e0d47) — 11/7/2020 @ 7:22 pm

    I don’t remember Republicans lobbying to make police brutality legal. I seem to remember most want police to enjoy their due process.

    Something Obama didn’t give Americans when he assassinated them with a drone strike.

    Something FDR and Democrats didn’t do when they put Americans in internment camps.

    Something Wilson didn’t do when he segregated the workforce.

    And coming back to Obama again, something he didn’t do when he told universities to hold their own trials.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  410. So, if turns out that there’s only, say, an 80% chance that some fratboy date-raped your daughter, she’ll just have sit in the same classroom with him for four years, or find a different school to attend?

    No, Dave. Under the Trump/DeVos standard an 80% likelihood was sufficient to find a student guilty and mete out a punishment. But 51% is not. To me that is eminently reasonable.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  411. Let me let you in on a little secret – universities don’t do this because they want to, they do it because they are required to do so by law, and failure to make an adequate remedy when someone is harassed exposes the university (which for a public school like mine means the taxpayers of the state) to 7- or 8-figure liability to the victim.

    Luckily, Trump took care of that. So now they don’t have to. They can allow the police and the judicial system handle that, as they do all other cases of rape.

    But sounds like you want Biden to go back to the old ways, when university kids are denied due process.

    Shame.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  412. @373.“Never gives up. Never gives in.” -Joe Biden 11/7/2020
    Oh, so now he’s claiming that he didn’t drop out of the 1988 and 2008 Presidential primaries?

    LOLOLOL I’m so glad you mentioned 1988 and 2008– because if I had, nobody would care. LOL

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  413. Dave, you’re the one who lives in a fantasy world if you think these campus “courts” are handling these cases well. If it were up to me, these colleges would have ONE procedure: call the damn police immediately and let them handle it. They have proven themselves, over and over again, so held hostage to extreme left wing politics that they can’t see anything straight.

    https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=14831

    But hey, go ahead and call all that lies. Conservatives really just want to make it so that Christian white males can harass and rape as many women and POCs as they want on campus and there’s no recourse, right?

    Honestly, people like you won’t be happy until every conservative is in the camps.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  414. Hoi Polio and JVW, again thanks.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  415. Even if you are bound and determined to stick with a 51% standard, the Trump/DeVos guidelines insisted that the accused be presented with the evidence against him, that he have access to some sort of advocate to help him argue his case, that he be allowed to mount a vigorous and full defense, and that the people deciding his fate not be stacked in one particular discipline or administrative office. If Biden jettisons even those rules then it will be clear that he is wholly owned by the Wymyn’s Studies Department.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  416. There are several things I hope Biden doesn’t do, one of them being reinstating Obama’s “Dear Colleague” letter. Most college administrators aren’t qualified to deal with sexual misconduct charges; they should be left to law enforcement.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  417. Paul, on this topic you’re 100% right on. :-)

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  418. Let me let you in on a little secret – universities don’t do this because they want to, they do it because they are required to do so by law, and failure to make an adequate remedy when someone is harassed exposes the university (which for a public school like mine means the taxpayers of the state) to 7- or 8-figure liability to the victim.

    As if large settlement figures have never been paid out to a wrongly accused student.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  419. Kamala thanked her mother for her being there tonight.

    Guess her father had nothing to do with it, eh Kammy?! –other than being conceived and alive.

    Guys, this is pants-suited feminism; women who crave to be men; a woman who thinks little girls can finally believe in a world of possibilities who is too stupid to look up and see astronaut Kate Rubins, busy at work, in orbit 250 miles above her aboard the International Space Station.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  420. Well, Dave, if my daughter thought she was raped, I would tell her to go to the police. You know, the people trained at doing investigations like these.

    OK, but a couple problems.

    First, the burden of a criminal prosecution is (rightly) high, and 80% isn’t enough to convict someone.

    Second, there are forms of harassment (other than rape) that are not criminal but still (under law) require the school or workplace to take action to protect the victim or face massive civil liability.

    But I forgot, you Democrats hate the police. Want to defund them.

    I’d appreciate if you didn’t lie about me and call me a Democrat.

    Instead, the boy should go in front of a university star chamber that won’t allow him his legal rights.

    It’s a different process intended to serve a different purpose.

    Suppose you were a woman in a bar, and some guy starts aggressively bothering you in a way that makes it impossible to enjoy yourself, and won’t go away.

    You can’t call the police, because being an jerk isn’t a crime. You could just leave, but why should a jerk be able to ruin your evening? Maybe you even paid a fat cover charge to get in. The solution is to ask the security to either get the guy to leave you alone, or throw him out if he won’t.

    The bouncer is doing the same job as the university disciplinary hearing. The bar has no interest in removing a paying customer who has done nothing wrong, and neither does the university. On the other hand, the bar wants its clients to feel comfortable and enjoy themselves, and somebody who gets out of line with one customer is likely to do the same with others.

    Of course, the bouncer probably isn’t going to do more than a cursory investigation, or hold a hearing, or allow the sides to call witnesses, etc. The university procedure is more serious, and more involved. But the basic idea is very similar.

    Dave (1bb933)

  421. “I don’t remember Republicans lobbying to make police brutality legal.”

    They don’t need to lobby for it, it’s functionally legal now.

    Here’s a thread with almost 1000 instances of police brutality during protests since George Floyd was killed: https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1266751520055459847

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  422. Paul, on this topic you’re 100% right on.

    I respect Dave’s opinion, but there have been too many occasions where the accused have been denied due process.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  423. @420.There are several things I hope Biden doesn’t do…

    Only ‘several’??

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  424. There are several things I hope Biden doesn’t do, one of them being reinstating Obama’s “Dear Colleague” letter. Most college administrators aren’t qualified to deal with sexual misconduct charges; they should be left to law enforcement.

    Like everyone else, you don’t seem to understand what you’re talking about.

    The Dear Colleague letter said that the standard of proof in harassment hearings should be preponderance of the evidence.

    It did not create any new hearings, or put anybody in charge who wasn’t already in charge. All it did was make the evidentiary playing field level between the two individuals involved.

    Dave (1bb933)

  425. The GOP has long been the Party of “next in line”, favoring Vice Presidents (Nixon, Bush I, Ford), Governors (Reagan, Bush II, Romney, Landon, Dewey), senior party statesmen (Dole, McCain), or Generals that win world wars (Ike). Politically Trump was an anomaly….only known for being a Birther, reality TV host, casino operator, and serial wife dumper. Not quite the resume for leader of the free world, voice of the nation, or even promoter of conservative causes. He was elected because he was raw entertainment (for some) and FNC and Talk Radio saw ratings and an opportunity to influence their meal ticket….by whispering in his ear. But who played whom….and what was Trump’s real play? Will the con eventually get revealed? Only if it is in his interest I suspect.

    Well, now the experiment is almost over….70M are thoroughly disappointed that the Trump show is being canceled. Will FNC and Talk Radio allow him to lurk….maybe promote his son….or contemplate a run at age 78….or just consume all of the oxygen from the GOP….out sizing and out conspiracy-promoting the best of them. Do we ever get around to talking about debt, free market solutions, an opportunity society, bold foreign policy, limited government, local solutions, and the importance of time-tested values? I guess we will have to wait and see….can FNC and Talk Radio authentically sell it…..do the masses genuinely want it….or are we trapped in a hate-fear-angry cycle….that will give us more of the same? I fear we are…and that things will have to break even more before we snap out of it….I’m hoping my side starts making progress

    AJ_Liberty (a4ff25)

  426. Luckily, Trump took care of that. So now they don’t have to. They can allow the police and the judicial system handle that, as they do all other cases of rape.

    Wrong.

    Dave (1bb933)

  427. As if large settlement figures have never been paid out to a wrongly accused student.

    I mentioned that explicitly in the very next sentence…

    Dave (1bb933)

  428. @392. Seriously I never heard of him. I guess I’m much younger than you.

    Google him; Wally Cox.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  429. You can’t call the police, because being an jerk isn’t a crime. You could just leave, but why should a jerk be able to ruin your evening? Maybe you even paid a fat cover charge to get in. The solution is to ask the security to either get the guy to leave you alone, or throw him out if he won’t.

    But you aren’t just asking for that, Dave. You’re asking that the guy be 86’ed from the bar permanently and there’s the possibility that every other reputable establishment in the neighborhood is also going to refuse to allow him admittance into their establishment once they find out about this, without even bothering to find out for themselves whether or not the allegations are legitimate.

    Now take your example and let’s say that the woman is indeed beautiful and charming, and the bouncer or bartender or whomever else you want to adjudicate the situation has the hots for her. What chance is there that they will render a fair and impartial decision in the matter? And furthermore, what if the male patron has for whatever reason pre-paid a bar tab for several months and is told by the bar that there will be no refund. How much of this is fair under your analogy?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  430. ……. or contemplate a run at age 78…….
    DCSCA can recycle all of his Biden posts by just substituting Trump.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  431. @432-
    Not interested in your nostalgia.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  432. All these idiots, unmasked partying in the streets over Biden’s win… Just wait until they spike up Covid cases going into flu season, too… and they’ll blame Trump for making them celebrate.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  433. Hillary clinton’s comment on biden election. “Free at last! Free at Last! Thank god almighty I am free at last! My personel opinion maybe not.

    asset (1a5296)

  434. I mentioned that explicitly in the very next sentence…

    “Likewise, avoiding liability is not consistent with decisions which are later overturned resulting in exposure to liability to the accused.”

    OK, I’ll grant that you did indeed, though with curiously hazy and lawyerly vague language.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  435. @432- Doesn’t matter to me, but would educate you- your original response was exactly right all the same.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  436. The bouncer is doing the same job as the university disciplinary hearing. The bar has no interest in removing a paying customer who has done nothing wrong, and neither does the university. On the other hand, the bar wants its clients to feel comfortable and enjoy themselves, and somebody who gets out of line with one customer is likely to do the same with others.

    You are basically comparing criminal trespassing to sexual assault. Bars to universities. A private establishment to a public one. Your analogy simply does not work.

    Second, there are forms of harassment (other than rape) that are not criminal but still (under law) require the school or workplace to take action to protect the victim or face massive civil liability.

    You can still give the accused their rights. I’m sorry, does that law that requires them to take action also tell them to not give the accused their rights?

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  437. @437.Hillary clinton’s comment on biden election. “Free at last! Free at Last! Thank god almighty I am free at last!’

    What- she filed for divorce?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  438. All these idiots, unmasked partying in the streets over Biden’s win… Just wait until they spike up Covid cases going into flu season, too… and they’ll blame Trump for making them celebrate.

    I’m surprised the Biden COVID Committee didn’t tackle this already.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  439. Guess her father had nothing to do with it, eh Kammy?! –other than being conceived and alive.

    Her parents divorced when she was seven. Her mother raised her and her sister.

    nk (1d9030)

  440. It did not create any new hearings, or put anybody in charge who wasn’t already in charge. All it did was make the evidentiary playing field level between the two individuals involved.

    And yet the practical result was the denial of due process for so many. Why was that?

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  441. “Free at last! Free at Last! Thank god almighty we are free at last!” is a Martin Luther King, Jr. quote. Who knows where asset dug it up to attribute to Hillary.

    nk (1d9030)

  442. 58. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/7/2020 @ 9:34 am

    and there is no indication that Asian ancestry confers an immunity.

    Not an immunity, but it does reduce the risk, and thus the ability to spread, because people with Type O blood have a reduced susceptibility toward it and people with type A or AB blood have a higher risk and there is a higher percentage of people with Type O blood China in higher (also in South America) and lower incidence of Type A blood in China.

    https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/10/20/covid-blood-type

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_type_distribution_by_country

    It may not be the blood type per se but something that is tends to be inherited with it. It’s also probably not a big factor.

    There may be greater immunity in many parts of China, though, because of the other coronaviruses. But these cowpox versions of this disease have spread all over the world and it is estimated roughly 40% of the world’s population got infected by them in the past.

    Is there a bad cold you got in 2005? Maybe that virtually immunized you. It is estimated, I think, that one out of every 4 colds is actually a coronavirus.

    It is possible they mostly contained it in Wuhan and Hubei Province, but allowed it to escape via direct flight by airplane from Wuhan to Milan, Italy.

    I really don’t care what claims they make about containing it — nobody is that good at controlling people — although maybe they just shoot all the patients and mark the cause of death up to “trauma.”

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  443. And yet the practical result was the denial of due process for so many. Why was that?

    I think Dave is correct that the Obama/Duncan guidelines did not require colleges to take a pro-complainant anti-defendant posture; the problem is that it did not require the institution to do anything to level the playing field on behalf of the defendant, which the Trump/DeVos guidelines thankfully did.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  444. I guess I’ll contribute a quote for history, too:

    “Leave that window open and the fan running while I run to the 7-Eleven for some Glade.” — nk, on the defeat of Donald Trump, 11-7-2020

    nk (1d9030)

  445. Yahoo News: What happens if a president-elect dies before inauguration?

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/happens-president-elect-dies-inauguration-165736616.html
    __

    lolololol
    _

    harkin (8fadc8)

  446. Even if you are bound and determined to stick with a 51% standard, the Trump/DeVos guidelines insisted that the accused be presented with the evidence against him, that he have access to some sort of advocate to help him argue his case, that he be allowed to mount a vigorous and full defense, and that the people deciding his fate not be stacked in one particular discipline or administrative office.

    I am in favor of treating the parties equally, with no presumptions favoring one or the other.

    UC’s policy (which pre-dates the Trump administration) includes advocates for both parties, the right to present favorable and review derogatory evidence, etc. There is an initial investigation based on interviews, and a preliminary judgment. Then a hearing if either side disputes the preliminary judgment. Then an appeal available if one side believes there was some defect in the process.

    Dave (1bb933)

  447. Glade has soft drinks now? I learn new stuff here every day!

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  448. Donald Trump and Erik Prince’s sister, who bought her cabinet appointment the way she’d buy one of Trump’s condos, are not the people you should want making rules regarding the sexual harassment of your kids.

    nk (1d9030)

  449. I’ve always liked the local news perspective on election stories…

    Queens Man Evicted

    By David Brand

    A 74-year-old Jamaica Estates developer has less than three months left at his current address after Americans overwhelmingly voted him out of the White House, the AP projected Saturday.

    President Donald Trump, a Republican, lost his bid for reelection after a days-long vote count, becoming the 11th commander-in-chief to lose the presidency after a single four-year term and the first major-party candidate from Queens to twice lose the popular vote.
    […]
    With his presidency in the balance Saturday, Trump visited his golf course while tweeting baseless claims of voter fraud.

    In 2016, the Kew-Forest School alum became the first person from Queens elected president. He was also the first Queens man impeached.

    There could also be a Florida Man angle to the story.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  450. Dave, which UC are you at if I may ask? (I assume University of California; I also have a hunch you’re at Irvine.)

    Also, if that’s their process and they truly stick with it, it sounds better than a lot of other colleges’ systems. However I still don’t want to see the “Dear Colleague” letter ever come back. It left a lot of broken lives in its wake.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  451. I learn new stuff here every day!

    When we stop learning, we stop growing.

    nk (1d9030)

  452. Maybe Trump could have the White House declared a TIFF and get it through eminent domain.

    nk (1d9030)

  453. nk, as JVW said, even the *LA Times* agreed with DeVos’s changes.

    If her changes can get approval from everyone from the Times editorial board to Trump’s people, that’s incredible, especially in this day and age. So it sounds to me like she knew what she was doing.

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  454. nk, the White House?

    “The Trump White House Hotel & Casino.” Has a nice ring to it! 😉

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  455. And yet the practical result was the denial of due process for so many. Why was that?

    I see many anecdotal claims, but I have never seen a rigorous accounting of what fraction of Title IX decisions against the accused or plaintiff are overturned in court.

    If 5% or even 10% of decisions are overturned that would constitute a large absolute number (when integrated over the whole country), but it would not really support the sweeping claims people make that the process results in injustice a majority of the time.

    I know – indirectly – of only one case at my school, and it was a very mild one. I wasn’t involved in the resolution, but what I gathered from hearsay was that a male graduate student who shared an office with several female students was making off-color sexual jokes that made the women uncomfortable. They complained, the male student was counseled and apologized, and agreed to move to a different office, and that was the end of it. Pretty much what should have happened, in my estimation.

    Dave (1bb933)

  456. DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/7/2020 @ 7:37 pm

    Kamala thanked her mother for her being there tonight.

    Guess her father had nothing to do with it, eh Kammy?! –other than being conceived and alive.

    Did she forget Willie Brown too? There’s going to be a lot of little girls in for a rude awakening if they want to follow Harris’s path to success.

    frosty (f27e97)

  457. I see many anecdotal claims, but I have never seen a rigorous accounting of what fraction of Title IX decisions against the accused or plaintiff are overturned in court.

    You would have to also add in how many of these decisions are settled by campus legal departments who know that a quiet payoff is a lot better value than the bad publicity from a court case exposing the true kangaroo court nature of these proceedings. If you follow the work of KC Johnson, he keeps fairly good track of this sort of thing.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  458. Here’s where Prof. Johnson tracks these cases.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  459. Dave (1bb933) — 11/7/2020 @ 8:25 pm

    The number of overturned Title IX decisions has nothing to do with whether they are fair and follow due process. There are a variety of reasons someone wouldn’t challenge a Title IX decision in court. No one is really making the claim that this happens in the majority of cases and that would be a horrible standard. If it’s happening at all it should stop. You’re applying what you know from your institution, which may not be complete, to every institution.

    frosty (f27e97)

  460. OMG. I won’t even discuss all this Title IX stuff. I don’t know if Dave is genuinely a faculty member, but I am laughing at his commentary. Just visit FIRE and look into the legal cases brought commonly.

    But as is common on the internet, many people make claims about their background that, um, are not true. Patterico can vouch for me.

    This is no different from the bizarre fights that much missed JD used to have with DCSCA and his, um, inconsistent history. Why argue? Let them tell their tales.

    Simon Jester (9d409e)

  461. JVW, thank you for linking to KC Johnson’s blog.

    Simon Jester (9d409e)

  462. JVW, thanks for that resource!

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  463. It’s also useful to go to http://www.thefire.org

    Simon Jester (9d409e)

  464. Sorry Joe; better Irish-Catholic display on another channel: helluva football game. ND 47; Clm 40 in 2nd OT. Final.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  465. Well, Notre Dame cares not for COVID restrictions when their football team upsets the number one ranked team, it would appear. Not a really great look for the university or the NCAA; this should be the one year when it would be relatively easy to prevent students from rushing on to the field after the game.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  466. Simon, can’t believe I forgot about FIRE. Thanks!

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  467. OMG. I won’t even discuss all this Title IX stuff. I don’t know if Dave is genuinely a faculty member, but I am laughing at his commentary.

    I think that Dave’s hang-up is that he assumes because things run fairly well at UCI that they must also run fairly well at the thousands of other campuses across the company. Why he would reach this determination I do not know.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  468. @445. “Free at last! Free at Last! Thank god almighty we are free at last!” is a Martin Luther King, Jr. quote. Who knows where asset dug it up to attribute to Hillary.

    Haven’t you heard- Plagiarism is ‘in’ now. Liberally used; Conservatively approved!

    “Don’t have a cow, man!” – DCSCA

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  469. On the AOC list; if you think peaceful transfers of power are a good thing you may want to consider speaking out against the AOC lists even if you don’t take them seriously.

    There are people who do take them seriously and they undermine a peaceful transition.

    frosty (f27e97)

  470. @470. Was pretty much laughing and thinking the exact same thing watching it. A spike in cases– they’ll blame Trump. Never the Irish Catholic Presidet-elect. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  471. @443. So– like her father wasn’t part of the conception deal giving her life?

    She wasn’t a test-tube baby, nk.

    Or was she?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  472. President-elect and Vice-President elect just 12 hours—- and I’m already tired of them.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  473. @434. Who? You’re waxing nostalgic, Rip. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  474. DCSCA: Eat my shorts! 😉

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  475. Sometimes, even when you know something is theoretically possible, seeing it happen can be important.

    Like seeing Kamala Harris wear a dress??????

    Nah.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  476. Kamala tried wearing a dress once, but then a black hole opened up…

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  477. @479. The next four score and seven years of stealing intellectual property and claiming it as your own should be a lot of fun thanks to Joe. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  478. @481. ROFLMAO. And pants-suited Hillary? What’s her excuse?

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  479. DCSCA, won’t it ever!
    I intend to open up my own franchise of Snoopy products. I’ll make a mint!!

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  480. ‘I learn new stuff here every day!’

    Allow me to plagiarize Emil Faber:

    “Knowledge is good.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  481. When it comes to UC Irvine, JVW, I remember this awful mess.

    https://www.latimes.com/local/education/la-me-edu-uc-irvine-sexual-misconduct-20181013-story.html

    Simon Jester (9d409e)

  482. “Our turn”…

    If this race-card-playing-video doesn’t make you vomit, nothing will.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjjasoFtAC0

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  483. Woah, Simon Jester, I never heard of that one. The same sort of thing happened to Walter Lewin in the Physics Department at MIT. He had already taken emeritus status, and he as an old man who might be starting to decline mentally apparently made some inappropriate comments towards a female student in an online course. Rather than quietly sending him into full retirement and allowing him to preserve some semblance of dignity, the Institute decided to publicly humiliate him in a show of pure virtue signaling, going so far as to remove his tremendously popular lecture videos from their Open Courseware platform. It was a clear case of overkill and I wrote to the provost and president to register my objection, receiving back a canned lawyer-approved email full of PC bureaucratic jargon. Interestingly enough, MIT received a lot of complaints about the missing videos from overseas students — many of whom were from developing nations — who objected to losing such a valuable and free resource. I believe that they have since quietly restored those videos to the platform.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  484. Mormon Romney messages Catholic Joe: a ‘cult-to-cult broadcast.’

    Hey, Dave, isn’t it nice to know who hates the people we admire?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  485. My vote was a pull of the toilet handle to flush the orange sh!t that is Trump and his spear carriers. Nothing more.

    Agreed. And if some say “Oh, but Biden!” I have to reply: Then maybe inflicting Trump on the GOP was a bad idea. So bad that the Democrats were an OBVIOUSLY better choice.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  486. More to the point: Trump did NOTHING for 4 years. Not one thing he did (and he didn’t do a single judge, that was a list handed to him as the GOP’s price) will last past the end of January. He had both houses of Congress for two years and he couldn’t get anything passed except jacking up MY taxes.

    Reagan had both houses of Congress never, and he changed the world and it stayed changed.

    Trump is the most singularly ineffective president of my lifetime and his boorishness, racism and general malfeasance made his term worse than nothing. And that includes both LBJ (who started a war he knew we’d lose, and 58,000 Americans died before Nixon could stop it) and Jimmy Carter who ignited worldwide jihad in the name of human rights.

    I hope Trump chokes on a chicken bone.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  487. Don’t hold back Kevin, tell us how you REALLY feel. Geez!

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  488. If 5% or even 10% of decisions are overturned that would constitute a large absolute number (when integrated over the whole country), but it would not really support the sweeping claims people make that the process results in injustice a majority of the time.

    Dave, it varies from school to school. The cases that make the news are at schools that have adopted unfair procedures to be sure to get the guilty. Generally at the insistence of radical advocates. And at those schools, there are multiple cases where men have been expelled without great regard for the merits of the cases. Some were no doubt guilty as charged, but given the documented processes it’s really hard to tell which. And ask yourself, which colleges will take one so expelled? It has a profound effect on their lives going forward.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  489. Don’t hold back Kevin, tell us how you REALLY feel. Geez!

    The Democrats and “progressives” claim that Trump was a horror to them, but what he really was was a godsend. An effective conservative President, with a surging GOP, would have been transformative. As it is, Trump’s doings will be gone in a week.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  490. @465: This

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  491. 491.More to the point: Trump did NOTHING for 4 years.

    ROFLMAOPIP

    Look! Up in the sky! It’s a bird! It’s a plane! It’s…

    SPACE FORCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  492. I agree with Applebaum here.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/11/trumps-forever-campaign-is-just-getting-started/617021/

    The Trump strategy is to discredit the media, so when critical articles or negative reports about him are released, they won’t be believed, not by the uneducated or uniformed anyway. And it’s worked for decades.

    Media manipulation is the name of the game. That’s how he was able to turn multiple bankruptcies, numerous business failures and thousands of lawsuits into success stories. His (ghost-written) book became a best seller. The Apprentice, where he played a faux CEO on (scripted) Reality TV, became a top rated show. All of it was fake. Lies, lies, and damned ratings.

    But that’s all Trump cares about, ratings. The higher the ratings, the better for him (in his mind). What will CNN and FOX do when their ratings go down, because they’re not broadcasting everything Trump? Not much, because they’ll be spending air time praising or criticizing Biden.

    Trump will soon be forgotten, out of the spotlight. That he cannot accept, psychologically. It’s a taint on his brand name, which is all he has left. So he and his ill-conceived children will do everything they can to keep the brand viable.

    Thus, Trump will portray the election as illegitimate. It’s all part of his strategy, and he is attempting a coup.

    https://www.vox.com/2020-presidential-election/2020/11/7/21554114/trump-election-2020-voter-fraud-challenge-recount-biden

    I doubt he will be successful. All his frivolous lawsuits so far have been thrown out of court as without merit. The Supreme Court will never hear Trump v Biden.

    But it will keep his name in the news. That’s all that matters, the ratings. Trump can now claim that declining ratings are because network and cable news are not covering him. See how that works?

    The reason why he wants to portray the election as illegitimate or fraudulent is so that he can claim the upcoming investigations and prosecutions against him, for tax, bank and wire fraud–oh, yes, they’re coming–are persecution.

    Think of this contradictory dichotomy. Always the hero, always the victim. Does that make any sense?

    What concerns me is the complete corruption of the Republican party. It forces me to ask myself, is this the party I have supported and voted for practically all of my life? Or has it always been this corrupt?

    I don’t know. I can’t answer that question. What I do know is that I will not be voting for any Republican in the near future, not until Trumpism is exorcized.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  493. 491.More to the point: Trump did NOTHING for 4 years.

    ROFLMAOPIP

    President Trump negotiated a new trade agreement between the U.S., Canada, and Mexico to replace the disastrous and outdated North American Free Trade Agreement. Even Biden admitted the new USMCA was better than NAFTA – something Biden himself voted for.

    491.More to the point: Trump did NOTHING for 4 years.

    ROFLMAOPIP

    •President Trump followed through on his promise to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel and move the American embassy there.

    491.More to the point: Trump did NOTHING for 4 years.

    ROFLMAOPIP

    Trump successfully advocated for cutting waste at the UN. Changes made to the organization’s structure allowed the UN to cut hundreds of millions of dollars from their budget, while making the organization more efficient.

    491.More to the point: Trump did NOTHING for 4 years.

    ROFLMAOPIP

    President Trump persuaded member nations of NATO to increase their defense spending and realign the Alliance’s priorities– and start paying their fair share of the costs.

    Trump is the most singularly ineffective president of my lifetime and his boorishness, racism and general malfeasance made his term worse than nothing. And that includes both LBJ (who started a war he knew we’d lose, and 58,000 Americans died before Nixon could stop it)

    ROFLMAOPIP

    When Vietnam became Nixon’s War in January, 1969, 31,000 Americans had been killed in Vietnam, Kevin. Roughly half the U.S. dead–27,000 Americans– were killed in Vietnam on Nixon’s watch, Kevin. A war he knew was lost, Kevin, per the Pentagon Papers, Kevin. Nixon could have and should have ‘stopped it’ immediately, Kevin. He chose not to- simply because he didn’t want to be labeled in history as the first U.S president to “lose a war,” Kevin. [The first U.S. president to resign was so much better.] Nixon apologists are idiots, Kevin.

    President Trump has not started a war on his watch, Kevin.

    491.More to the point: Trump did NOTHING for 4 years.

    ROFLMAOPIP

    President Trump successfully filled three SCOTUS seats w/conservative judges.

    491.More to the point: Trump did NOTHING for 4 years.

    ROFLMAOPIP

    President Trump ended the devastating defense cuts; signed legislation providing $700 billion for defense in FY 2018 and $716 billion in FY 2019 and supported America’s men and women in uniform, securing the largest military pay raise in nearly a decade.

    491.More to the point: Trump did NOTHING for 4 years.

    ROFLMAOPIP

    Oh yeah… President Trump announced that the Department of Defense will work to create a new, independent branch of the United States military… SPACE FORCEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  494. Here’s where Prof. Johnson tracks these cases.

    But you see, keeping track of ONLY the cases where the plaintiffs may have a cause for appeal is still anecdotal data, and tells us nothing about whether the system works in the majority of cases, or not.

    Also, I count, I think, seven cases listed for this year, and a comparable number for 2019. And the students appear to prevail in only about half the cases. This points out the pitfalls of generalizing from a handful of cases.

    Dave (1bb933)

  495. Oh, jeez.

    Simon Jester (9d409e)

  496. Radley Balko:

    Looking forward to opposing the new regime because they’re wrong on policy, not because they’re wrong on policy, dangerous, brazenly corrupt, and gratuitously cruel.

    Indeed.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  497. I don’t know if Dave is genuinely a faculty member, but I am laughing at his commentary. Just visit FIRE and look into the legal cases brought commonly.

    How many sexual harassment cases at your institution are you personally familiar with the facts of?

    Again, cherry-picking the screw-ups, which I have never denied exist, is not evidence for the absurd claims made in this thread, for example:

    Their standard is “this woman says you [raped/sexually harassed] her, and women never lie about sexual misdeeds. Also, you have a penis. Therefore, you are guilty and expelled immediately.”

    and

    “Campus “courts” instead go by “whichever person is the member of the most ‘disenfranchised’ group, according to our campus’ most woke SJW students, is automatically telling the truth, and everyone else is lying, guilty or both.””

    I actually found some quantitative statistics in a relatively recent paper co-authored by Johnson.

    As of August 16, 2019, no fewer than 298 of the post-Dear Colleague letter lawsuits (191 in federal court) have yielded substantive decisions, at various stages of the legal process.

    So that would be an average of 37 per year total, and about 24 per year in the federal courts. The paper notes that the rate of suits is not constant, but has increased over time.

    Of the 298 decisions in state and federal court, colleges have been on the losing side in 151; they have prevailed in 134. (Decisions in eleven cases were neutral or mixed; two rulings, along with all other filings in the cases, were sealed.) This list does not include at least seventy-four federal lawsuits that the institutions settled before the judge rendered any substantive decision in the case. Schools settle for all sorts of reasons, and because settlement terms are typically confidential, it is difficult to read much into the settlement statistics.

    151 adverse judgments out of 298 cases is just a little over 50%. From the narratives given, a fair fraction of cases seem to involve the university not following its own rules and procedures (and this is a point of emphasis in the bi-annual training we receive…).

    Unfortunately, the paper doesn’t give any statistics for the pool of Title IX processes which did not lead to a court case. We can get some perspective on the scope of the reported problem(s) using enrollment numbers.

    There are approximately 20 million enrolled college students, approximately 43% of which are male, so 8.6 million men in college at any given time. In the eight year period covered by the statistics in the paper, roughly twice that number would pass through the system.

    So that is 151 men who courts found to have some type of valid claim between 2011 and 2019, and an additional 70-odd who reached some kind of settlement, out of roughly 17 million men who attended college during the same time period.

    A 2015 study found that 23% of female undergraduates reported being sexually assaulted since starting college. The response rate to the survey was 19%. Assuming (very conservatively) that there were NO assaults committed on the 81% who didn’t respond, that means 4.4% of undergraduate women are sexually assaulted.

    Using the same enrollment number above, that would mean at least a million sexual assaults on female students in the eight years between 2011 and 2019, during which time ~225 male students received relief of some kind in or out of court for unfair or unjust treatment by their university’s Title IX disciplinary procedure.

    Dave (1bb933)

  498. I find this graph (from fivethirtyeight) remarkable.

    It is a graph of peoples’ response, by party, when asked for their opinion about the state of the economy.

    In late 2016, only 15% of Republicans called the state of the economy “very” or “fairly” good. By mid 2017 (with economic conditions essentially unchanged from the year before), it was heading above 90%.

    Democrats’ opinion of the economy worsened over the same period, but by much less.

    Presumably the two curves are destined to cross again pretty soon…

    Dave (1bb933)

  499. Donald Trump vows not to attend inauguration of ‘phoney President’ as White House staff light rose-scented candles to improve the toxic atmosphere

    Donald Trump will never accept that he lost the election, even if his legal challenges fail.

    Sources close to the White House say he will even refuse to attend the inauguration of a rival he sees as a ‘phoney President’, as he continues to protest that was cheated in a fraudulent vote.

    ‘He has no concession speech ready and no intention of recognising Joe Biden’s presidency,’ one Republican source said last night.

    Dave (1bb933)

  500. Benjamin Netanyahu
    @netanyahu
    Congratulations @JoeBiden and @KamalaHarris. Joe, we’ve had a long & warm personal relationship for nearly 40 years, and I know you as a great friend of Israel. I look forward to working with both of you to further strengthen the special alliance between the U.S. and Israel.

    Dave (1bb933)

  501. Dave wrote:

    Neither Kamala nor Joe is a very good speaker, but I thought the content of both speeches was spot on.

    It’s time to put this country back together again.

    In “The Cage,” the original pilot for Star Trek, it was revealed at the end that the Talosians rescued Vina from the wreck of the spacecraft, and they put her back together. Everything worked, but they had never seen a human before, and had no guide for how she should be put back together.

    And that is what the Democrats putting this country back together would be: they have no real guide, other than their own leftist fantasies, as to what this country should be like. It will take illusory powers far greater than the Talosians have to make this country look right after the left have their way.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  502. nk wrote:

    The Trumps of the world should not be allowed power over the lives, liberty, and property of other people.

    That’s just it: President Trump did not attempt to take control of your life, liberty or property. He (mostly) reduced regulations on American citizens, and he reduced taxes. It’s the guy for whom you voted who would assume more power over your life, liberty and property.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  503. Dave wrote:

    So, if turns out that there’s only, say, an 80% chance that some fratboy date-raped your daughter, she’ll just have sit in the same classroom with him for four years, or find a different school to attend?

    So, if it turns out that there’s only, say, a 20% chance that some frat-boy didn’t date-rape some coed, he should be punished for the alleged crime?

    Accusations of rape should be handled by law enforcement, not colleges. Only the law enforcement system has the resources and training to investigate these things fully.

    What is the limit of the colleges’ authority? They can expel the student and ban him from campus, period. That means if the frat-boy did actually rape someone, well the cute little white coeds living on campus ought to be protected from him, but the girls off campus, whether students, convenience store clerks or waitresses get no protection from a predator at all.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  504. Dave wrote:

    Well, Dave, if my daughter thought she was raped, I would tell her to go to the police. You know, the people trained at doing investigations like these.

    OK, but a couple problems.

    First, the burden of a criminal prosecution is (rightly) high, and 80% isn’t enough to convict someone.

    I’m trying to figure out how a 20% chance of innocence, or even a 49% chance, in the preponderance of the evidence standard, is enough to punish someone. In most of these cases, it’s he said/she said, so the college simply chooses who they wish to believe. And since there is a financial incentive for the college to come to a conclusion of guilt — those Title IX dollars, remember? — the entire system is rigged against the accused.

    Which is, of course, what the left wanted.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  505. JVW wrote:

    Well, Notre Dame cares not for COVID restrictions when their football team upsets the number one ranked team, it would appear. Not a really great look for the university or the NCAA; this should be the one year when it would be relatively easy to prevent students from rushing on to the field after the game.

    The acceptance rate at Notre Dame is 17.7%, so one must assume that, other than the few David Hogg to Hahvahd type of admissions, the student body is both intelligent and decently educated, and if they choose to rush the field, what business is that of anyone else’s?

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  506. If I recall correctly, the ND campus had their big outbreak in early September and the football team in late August. Consider it an experiment on the limits of herd immunity.

    urbanleftbehind (2641dd)

  507. Re: Trump’s lawsuits: They don’t even know what they are doing.

    And his lawyers are focused on keeping their client happy – in other words so that he can see that they are litigating. They even went to Suprpe Court Justice Samuel Alito to get an order ordering Pennsylvania vote counters to do what they had already agreed to as a result of another lawsuit. (let Republican observers observe more

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  508. 504.

    a graph of peoples’ response, by party, when asked for their opinion about the state of the economy.

    In a rather amazing instance of not wanting to say, people who intended to vote for Trump by alarge margin said they were better off now than they were four years ago.

    This is from augist, nut the same thing appeared later:

    https://nypost.com/2020/08/23/3-in-4-republicans-think-america-is-better-off-now-than-in-2016-poll

    Three in four GOP-identified voters who responded to a nationwide CBS News poll said that the nation is better off than it was in 2016.

    When asked why they believed the nation was better off, 82 percent cited their faith in Trump and 70 percent gave the state of the economy as the reason.

    Seventy percent said it was because Democrats are no longer in power and 64 percent cited their own family’s finances.

    Overall, just 35 percent of registered voters who were polled said the country is better off now than four years ago.

    The poll was conducted between Aug. 19-21 with a sample of 2,226 registered voters across the country.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  509. I heard this morning that somebody aged 24 died after about 5 or 6 weeks in the hospital. He was disalled in some way – he needed a caretaker to ferry him around. He got it from his parents, who were both teachers of some kind, who presumably got it after students came back from vacation. I think medications he might have been taking were a factor. Otehwise why should he hae amuch worse case than his parents? Of course he might have absorbed more virus in his home. I don’t know the details. I suspect he was on something.

    Anything that increases the possibility of heart disease or diabetes probably increases vulnerability to infection, because it’s probably caused by the same effect: lowering the ability to make proteins.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  510. President Trump negotiated a new trade agreement between the U.S., Canada, and Mexico to replace the disastrous and outdated North American Free Trade Agreement.

    Spin. The new agreement is marginally better than the old one.
    I disagree with Kevin on one point, because Trump passed tax cuts in addition to getting judges confirmed. However, those tax cuts mostly benefited those in his tax bracket and will add $1.9 trillion to our national debt; it’s a net negative.
    I agree with you that moving the US Embassy was significant, and PE Biden has already said he wouldn’t move it back, but the rest of the Trump’s “accomplishments” are small, fleeting and easily reversible, including Space Force.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  511. I saw Newt on Fox & Friends Sunday, and he was as dishonest and irresponsible as ever, scarcely better than Giuliani. The F&F hosts were nearly as bad for not pushing back on his baseless assertions. Ms. Bila’s asked one semi-challenging question, almost embarrassingly. It was journalistic negligence and malpractice. Gingrich was allowed to spout off all kinds of baseless nonsense uninterrupted and without any real questioning.
    Apparently according to Gingrich, “they” are responsible for stealing the election. Who are “they”? He doesn’t say, although he did throw Soros’ name out there, practically out of habit. Also, “they” are concealing the evidence of fraud so “they” can say there’s no evidence, so by Gingrich’s “logic”, the lack of evidence has to mean it must be investigated. That’s how deep this cross-state conspiracy really is. Pffft.
    FoxNews has indeed become American Pravda.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  512. Two random notes:

    I’m getting a kick out of reading how the right is turning on Fox News for not “delivering the election” as they put it.

    I’ve noticed that the celebrations in the city streets are similar to the ones we see when a dictator is overthrown.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  513. It was journalistic negligence and malpractice. Gingrich was allowed to spout off all kinds of baseless nonsense uninterrupted and without any real questioning.

    To impress you Montagu, they should’ve peppered Newt with questions like “Why aren’t you more angry at Biden?”

    Also, “they” are concealing the evidence of fraud so “they” can say there’s no evidence, so by Gingrich’s “logic”, the lack of evidence has to mean it must be investigated. That’s how deep this cross-state conspiracy really is.

    “Trump Russia Collusion”

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  514. That means if the frat-boy did actually rape someone, well the cute little white coeds living on campus ought to be protected from him, but the girls off campus, whether students, convenience store clerks or waitresses get no protection from a predator at all.

    I don’t believe it works that way, TDiK. By agreeing to attend university, they also agree to the school’s code of conduct, which applies off-campus as well, not unlike code-of-conduct policy in corporate business.
    I’ll say it again. Most of the injustices done to the accused arise from the lack of due process, and that’s where reform is really necessary, IMO. I think there are also cases where they are better passed to our legal system instead of leaving them with administrators.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  515. I’m getting a kick out of reading how the right is turning on Fox News for not “delivering the election” as they put it.

    Well, gee, where did you read that? Sounds like a made up quote from one of the left wing news outlets who delivered it for Biden.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  516. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    I heard this morning that somebody aged 24 died after about 5 or 6 weeks in the hospital. He was disalled in some way – he needed a caretaker to ferry him around. He got it from his parents, who were both teachers of some kind, who presumably got it after students came back from vacation. I think medications he might have been taking were a factor. Otehwise why should he hae amuch worse case than his parents? Of course he might have absorbed more virus in his home. I don’t know the details. I suspect he was on something.

    You have just assumed that he got it from his parents; if he had a ‘caretaker,’ he could have gotten it from him. If his parents contracted COVID-19, you have assumed that they contracted it from their students, and not from their disabled son or his caretaker. You have suspected that whatever medications he was taking were a factor, when it is just as reasonable, and I would say moreso, that his case was worse because he was disabled and physically weak.

    Your comments are usually much more tightly reasoned. This one was not.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  517. Mr Pretzels wrote:

    I’m getting a kick out of reading how the right is turning on Fox News for not “delivering the election” as they put it. (Mr Slobberknocker)

    Well, gee, where did you read that? Sounds like a made up quote from one of the left wing news outlets who delivered it for Biden.

    Sadly, Mr Slobberknocker is at least partially right. I have a lot of tweets and Facebook posts in my admittedly unscientific feeds saying things just like that.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  518. To impress you Montagu, they should’ve peppered Newt with questions like “Why aren’t you more angry at Biden?”

    Thank you, beer. I’ll take your comment as completely disingenuous. Since you object to my objection, perhaps you can enlighten me as who “they” are and what the evidence is for this massive fraud. C’mon man, details.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  519. I’ve noticed that the celebrations in the city streets are similar to the ones we see when a dictator is overthrown.

    Maybe rein in your Batista fantasies.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  520. Mr Montagu wrote:

    I think there are also cases where they are better passed to our legal system instead of leaving them with administrators.

    I would say that all of the cases should be passed to our legal system. Police and prosecutors know what evidence is solid and what is shaky, and know what evidence is usable in court and what is not. College administrators are usually not lawyers, and are not normally dealing with this kind of thing on a daily basis; they have other, greater concerns.

    But more, colleges have a financial incentive, in the form of Title IX and federal dollars, to find against the accused. That’s like paying prosecutors and police a commission on how many criminal convictions they can get.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  521. Since you object to my objection, perhaps you can enlighten me as who “they” are and what the evidence is for this massive fraud.

    You mean the example you jokers set the past four years is a bad one? Admit that first, then you can ask me to improve on your ridiculously low bar for evidence.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  522. Mr Slobberknocker continues the leftist fantasies:

    I’ve noticed that the celebrations in the city streets are similar to the ones we see when a dictator is overthrown.

    Dictators are not “overthrown” in free and fair elections; dictators are overthrown with threats of force and violence beyond what their military are prepared to shoot down. President Trump was subject to a free and (mostly) fair election, precisely because he wasn’t a dictator.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  523. @ dana in Kentucky:

    Thanks Dana. By his responses beer and pretzels seems to hunkered down in his basement ignoring reality. But to quote Donnie “How pathetic would it be to lose to sleepy Joe Biden?”

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  524. @dana in Kentucky;

    I’m afraid you misunderstood my post. I wasn’t commenting on the way he left office but simply the celebrations going on afterward.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  525. I’m trying to figure out how a 20% chance of innocence, or even a 49% chance, in the preponderance of the evidence standard, is enough to punish someone.

    Like so many others, you either misunderstand or misrepresent the purpose of the process.

    The purpose is not to punish the accused; it is to deter sexual harassment and to protect the victim and their constitutionally protected right to use and enjoy government-supported educational facilities. The respondent has no more or less right to do the same.

    The law says universities MUST investigate every possible instance of sexual harassment that becomes known to them, and take any administrative action necessary to protect bona fide victims. The law requires this even if the possible victim does not file any complaint.

    While people here, including you, misrepresent the Title IX process as somehow replacing or usurping the criminal justice system, it does not. Its purpose is to balance the a priori equal rights of the accused and anyone they may have harassed. If the mandated investigation finds it is more likely than not that the respondent has interfered with someone else’s use and enjoyment by sexually harassing them, corrective action to protect the victim(s) is required by law.

    Dave (1bb933)

  526. colleges have a financial incentive, in the form of Title IX and federal dollars, to find against the accused.

    This is a false characterization of the law.

    Title IX requires investigation whenever sexual harassment may have occurred, and corrective action if (and only if) it did, in fact, occur.

    Dave (1bb933)

  527. By his responses beer and pretzels seems to hunkered down in his basement ignoring reality.

    I should run for president then. You’d vote for me.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  528. @533 beer and pretzels

    You miss the mark with your jab. As I said once before I am a NeverTrump Conservative that didn’t vote in 2020. But what does that say when a guy who spent the campaign in his basement can beat an incumbent ?

    Biden vs Trump

    Fair vs Unbalenced

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  529. I would say that all of the cases should be passed to our legal system.

    I don’t, TDiK, because there are differences between sexual misconduct (which can be handled in-house provided there’s requisite due process) and sexual assault, which is potentially criminal and would be better handled by law enforcement.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  530. SPACE FORCEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

    The TV series?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  531. And that is what the Democrats putting this country back together would be: they have no real guide, other than their own leftist fantasies, as to what this country should be like.

    Perhaps, but Donald Trump could only break things. He wasn’t even curious about how they might be put together.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  532. You mean the example you jokers set the past four years is a bad one?

    Yeah, it is a bad example, beer, one because you’re lumping me in with those “jokers” (whoever they are) who made Big Accusations without evidence.
    So I ask again, who is “they” and what is the evidence?

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  533. Ack, one.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  534. So, if turns out that there’s only, say, an 80% chance that some fratboy date-raped your daughter, she’ll just have sit in the same classroom with him for four years, or find a different school to attend?

    My god, but you would hang a lot of people to make sure you got all the bad guys.

    Do you think that expelling a person for rape isn’t a serious thing in their lives? But you’d be fine with doing that to an innocent now and then?

    And then, what about the documented cases where an institution’s set procedures are just about guaranteed to produce these results regardless of culpability? Where the defendant has no right to counsel, no right to see the evidence before him, no right to coros-examinem not right to produce witnesses to his actions or even presence, and where the adjudicator is also the counsel to the accuser, the investigator and generally know to be hostile to men.

    That you refer to them as “frat boys” indicates your own personal bias.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  535. First, the burden of a criminal prosecution is (rightly) high, and 80% isn’t enough to convict someone.

    And why is not the burden of permanently labeling a young man as a rapist, ending any hopes he has of a college degree anywhere, or any job that requires a transcript, NOT rightly high?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  536. I disagree with Kevin on one point, because Trump passed tax cuts in addition to getting judges confirmed.

    Eliminating the SALT deduction absolutely screwed me, as I had a one-time windfall and suddenly my high 5-figure state income tax was not deductible.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  537. 522. The Dana in Kentucky (45337e) — 11/8/2020 @ 8:03 am

    You have just assumed that he got it from his parents

    That’s what an ex-caretaker (part time) said. Bot a ew weeks ago and today. Obviously, no one would know 100% for certain but that seems most likely, and was probably the opinion of the family.

    ; if he had a ‘caretaker,’ he could have gotten it from him.

    I know him, and he doesn’t have it. There might have been someone else helping to take care of him now, but that he got it from any other source than his parents is unlikely. He was living with them.

    If his parents contracted COVID-19, you have assumed that they contracted it from their students,

    Most likely, again. These were probably Jewish religious schools in New Jersey. Only one parent might have contracted it because of school and one likely gave it to other. They might know because there may have been a cluster.

    he disease also had gone down in incidence before it started increasing again so it would have picked up again this way.

    and not from their disabled son or his caretaker.

    Chronological order.

    I assume my source had that right. Or he couldn’t have given that answer. If the order was reversed, nobody would attribute the son’s catching it to his parents. I sensed my source had

    “Parents” sounds also like they both had it before he did, and that would make sense a priori. That could create a lot of virus lingering in the air, and that’s what you need for a place (like a cruise ship, or a meatpacking plant, or a nursing home, or a family residence) to become like a petri dish for the virus.

    And the former part time caretaker/ferrier around actually didn’t want to say too much about how it was contracted, (because he could be wrong I guess) but he did. It is actually important to know, or guess.

    You have suspected that whatever medications he was taking were a factor, when it is just as reasonable, and I would say more so, that his case was worse because he was disabled and physically weak.

    Inactivity may be promoted by the way he lived, but there is also a connection between many, many medications and heart disease.

    There are other things too that diminish the immune system. I saw a commercial for something by William Shatner today in which one statement he made was that lack of sleep harms your immune system. (what he was advertising was supposed to help people sleep. Of crse what it actually does is very important. Maybe it doesn;t need to normal sleep.)

    Now the way lack of sleep harms the immune system is again, because sleep is needed for protein synthesis. I think the blood glucose level or the body temperature or the blood oxygen level, or some combination of them has to be lower for protein synthesis to work – that’s why people need to sleep, That’s why you get all the side effects of diabetes – mostly due to small blood vessels not being created.

    I think the body can also compensate. My father had diabetes and sometimes late in life he used to sweat at night (blood glucose level too high maybe compensated for by lower body temperature. A lot of back and forth goes on like that)

    Now fighting an infection requires rapid protein synthesis – the manufacture of antibodies and other things. So it all fits together.

    For what it’s worth, people who are too fat, also do worse with Covid. Of course, people who are obese don’t have such good glucose control.

    Calcium (a few things affect calcium level, one of them being Vitamin D levels) also has an effect.

    https://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2016/02/11/calcium-channel-plays-integral-role-in-immune-response

    Your comments are usually much more tightly reasoned. This one was not.

    It’s loose. But not as loose maybe as t=it looks because it seems I left things out.

    It’s not as loose as it appears. School(s) at beginning of new school year -> parents + extended time in living quarters isolated together with them (? – but probable) -> transmission to disabled or mentally handicapped or whatever son + X factor -> son getting much worse case of the disease.

    He was on a ventilator, which is not a good sign. They delay putting people on ventilators, but when they do, survival rate may not be that much better than in April.

    The X factor can be medications. Or a combination of a few things.

    But I think this could be a valid insight – you have to be very careful with physically disabled people. And something needs to explain why someone so young succumbed to the disease when they usually do not.

    Of course anecdotal (n=1 situations) have something less than sturdy proof, but they count for something, especially for Bayesian analysis. I think you can draw (probable) conclusions from far less than 100 cases, and that’s how we learn almost everything.

    Also, his condition shouldn’t have been worse because of some genetic variant, because his parents did much better.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  538. Romney on Tapper, talking about Trump: “…he is who he is and he has a relatively relaxed relationship with the truth.”
    And just think, if he ran in 2024, he would be the same age as Biden is right now, and he has more of his marbles.

    Looking forward to some personnel moves and non-moves…
    Fired: Barr, Ratcliffe, Meadows.
    Not fired: Fauci, Wray
    Not hired: Judge Pirro for a slot in the DOJ.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  539. 522. The Dana in Kentucky (45337e) — 11/8/2020 @ 8:03 am

    You have just assumed that he got it from his parents

    That’s what an ex-caretaker (part time) said. Bot a ew weeks ago and today. Obviously, no one would know 100% for certain but that seems most likely, and was probably the opinion of the family.

    ; if he had a ‘caretaker,’ he could have gotten it from him.

    I know him, and he doesn’t have it. There might have been someone else helping to take care of him now, but that he got it from any other source than his parents is unlikely. He was living with them.

    If his parents contracted COVID-19, you have assumed that they contracted it from their students,

    Most likely, again. These were probably Jewish religious schools in New Jersey. Only one parent might have contracted it because of school and one likely gave it to other. They might know because there may have been a cluster. My source knew the family.

    The disease also had gone down in incidence before it started increasing again so it would have picked up again this way.

    and not from their disabled son or his caretaker.

    Chronological order.

    I assume my source had that right. Or he couldn’t have given that answer. If the order was reversed, nobody would attribute the son’s catching it to his parents.

    “Parents” sounds also like they both had it before he did, and that would make sense a priori. That could create a lot of virus lingering in the air, and that’s what you need for a place (like a cruise ship, or a meatpacking plant, or a nursing home, or a family residence) to become like a petri dish for the virus.

    And the former part time caretaker/ferrier around actually didn’t want to say too much about how it was contracted (because he could be wrong I guess) but he did.

    It is actually important to know, or guess.

    You have suspected that whatever medications he was taking were a factor, when it is just as reasonable, and I would say more so, that his case was worse because he was disabled and physically weak.

    Inactivity may be promoted by the way he lived, but it could also be caused by medications.

    There is also a connection between many, many medications and heart disease.

    There are other things too that diminish the immune system. I saw a commercial for something by William Shatner today in which one statement he made was that lack of sleep harms your immune system. (what he was advertising was supposed to help people sleep. Of crse what it actually does is very important. Maybe it doesn;t need to normal sleep.)

    Now the way lack of sleep harms the immune system is again, because sleep is needed for protein synthesis. I think the blood glucose level or the body temperature or the blood oxygen level, or some combination of them has to be lower for protein synthesis to work – that’s why people need to sleep, That’s why you get all the side effects of diabetes – mostly due to small blood vessels not being created.

    I think the body can also compensate. My father had diabetes and sometimes late in life he used to sweat at night (blood glucose level too high maybe compensated for by lower body temperature. A lot of back and forth goes on like that)

    Now fighting an infection requires rapid protein synthesis – the manufacture of antibodies and other things. So it all fits together.

    For what it’s worth, people who are too fat, also do worse with Covid. Of course, people who are obese don’t have such good glucose control.

    Calcium (a few things affect calcium level, one of them being Vitamin D levels) also has an effect.

    https://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2016/02/11/calcium-channel-plays-integral-role-in-immune-response

    Your comments are usually much more tightly reasoned. This one was not.

    It’s loose. But not as loose maybe as t=it looks because it seems I left things out.

    It’s not as loose as it appears. School(s) at beginning of new school year -> parents + extended time in living quarters isolated together with them (? – but probable) -> transmission to disabled or mentally handicapped or whatever son + X factor -> son getting much worse case of the disease.

    He was on a ventilator, which is not a good sign. They delay putting people on ventilators, but when they do, survival rate may not be that much better than in April.

    The X factor can be medications. Or a combination of a few things.

    But I think this could be a valid insight – you have to be very careful with physically disabled people. And something needs to explain why someone so young succumbed to the disease when they usually do not.

    Of course anecdotal (n=1 situations) have something less than sturdy proof, but they count for something, especially for Bayesian analysis. I think you can draw (probable) conclusions from far less than 100 cases, and that’s how we learn almost everything.

    Also, his condition shouldn’t have been worse because of some genetic variant, because his parents did much better.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  540. Dave, suppose your son was expelled from Harvard because his ex-girlfriend got revenge for being dumped and the Womyn’s Studies professor who adjudicated the case believed his toxic ex after refusing to listen to the 15 people who say he was somewhere else at the time?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  541. RIP alex trebek

    urbanleftbehind (ff03ab)

  542. I think Donald Trump is firing (or demoting) people he planned to fire if he got re-elected. There won;t be too much of that going on. Now he needs a change in plans.

    Put people he wants to keep, or who want to stay, in civil service positions.

    I think he will acknowledge he lost no later than when everything is played out. The trouble with Trump and lawsuits is, he never sues when genuinely aggrieved. He’ll sue if he has no case. So he has no realization of whether or not he has any case.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  543. Title IX requires investigation whenever sexual harassment may have occurred, and corrective action if (and only if) it did, in fact, occur.

    Education Dept: “So, Mr College President, I see that you had 49 harassment investigations in the last year, but only took action in 14% of the cases. The national average among colleges of your type is 31%. You will really have to do better than this if you expect us to keep you on the Approved list for federal money.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  544. Sorry to hear about Alex Trebek. His fight with cancer and his attitude in facing it was heroic.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  545. 550. The purpose of palliative care by-definition is not to prolong life. It is to enhance one’s comfort to the highest possible degree in the final stages of terminal illness.

    Gryph (f63000)

  546. “I’ve noticed that the celebrations in the city streets are similar to the ones we see when a dictator is overthrown.”

    SuperSpreader Events! Biden will kill them, NeverTrumpers!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  547. I fail to see anything commendable about Trumps so called accomplishments. If Trump couldn’t get tax cuts and judges approved when he owned the House and Senate for two years and the Senate for all four then he was even more incompetent than he ultimately exhibited. As far as his Executive Orders Biden is making a list to repeal or reverse them as we speak.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  548. Re: Thew inauguration:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-scott-gottlieb-discusses-coronavirus-on-face-the-nation-november-8-2020

    MARGARET BRENNAN: So there have been a lot of celebratory gatherings in the past 24 hours, mostly with masks, but not all. And I- I wonder what you think about whether in January will even be able to have an inauguration with the usual celebrations.

    DR. GOTTLIEB: [After thinking for a second] I don’t think we will. I don’t think we’re going to be able to bring large crowds together for an inauguration, we’re going to be right in the thick of probably the worst point of this epidemic wave that we’re going through right now. And you know the- the Biden campaign, the Biden team, have shown that they’re willing to forgo the usual trappings of running for office so that they don’t expose people unnecessarily. I suspect they’re going to take a similar approach to how they- how they handle the inauguration. I don’t know what that’s going to look like, but we’re not going to be able to bring together tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people on the lawn in Washington for a typical inauguration.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: [Are people adequately protecting their families if they test]

    DR. GOTTLIEB: No, they’re not. I mean, the tests can help. I think- I- it’s prudent to try to get tested if you’re going to bring together a group of people. But if you have individuals who are vulnerable in that setting, I think you still need to be very careful if you’re going to be exposing younger people in a broader group to older individuals who are vulnerable. If you do do that, make sure they’re wearing high quality masks, try to get a N95 mask and have them wear it the whole time. Try to keep people separated and distanced where you can. You know, you need to take a layered approach. Testing alone can’t create a safe environment, a protective bubble–

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.

    DR. GOTTLIEB: Even the NHL and the NBA, which had enormous testing, weren’t able to use testing alone.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  549. @ 553 DCSCA :

    Good point but once again my post was a comment on the quantity of the celebrations NOT the quality.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  550. What could Biden’s coronavirus task force do now?

    MARGARET BRENNAN: –the president-elect says his very first priority is dealing with this pandemic, and he’s going to name a task force tomorrow. Some of the names released by his campaign include a former surgeon general from the Obama years, as well as the former homeland security adviser. Realistically, what can a group like this do now since they don’t take office till the end of January?

    DR. GOTTLIEB: Well, I think the first thing they want to do is come in with a very clear plan and the president-elect has articulated what he would do. I mean, there’s not a lot of novelty to this. We know what works. We know what we need to do. And so they want a plan for how they’re going to hit the ground running to try to implement their strategy. The other thing that the president-elect and his team could be doing is working directly with the National Governors Association. We have one president at a time. They cannot govern. They are not in a position to govern, but they can start working with the governors to try to formulate policy through the governors, with the governors, and try to create a more national strategy that way. Because if you’re not going to have a federally led national strategy in the next couple of months and it’s going to be led at the state level, you at least want to coordinate across the different states, so it starts to have the semblance of a more cohesive plan.

    MARGARET BRENNAN: That sounds a pretty grim assessment of what you think the Trump administration might do between November and January to get a hold of the virus.

    DR. GOTTLIEB: Well, I’m not sure what they’re going to do. I mean, my advice to them would be to get more aggressive. We’re past the election. And I think they need to focus on what we can be doing nationally. We’ve been sort of arguing politically over what I think is a false dichotomy, a strawman, that it’s really a choice between lockdowns and no lockdowns. And that’s not the case. We- we don’t need to shut down the country, close businesses, tell people they need to stay at home to get some measure of control over this virus. We’re not going to get perfect control over this virus. It’s a contagious virus. It’s going to spread, but it doesn’t need to spread at the levels and at the velocity that’s going to start to press the health care system, which is what we’re seeing. We’re seeing that in Wisconsin now. It’s building field hospitals. Utah’s building field hospitals. El Paso built their fourth mobile morgue. We now have- we’re going to have a record number of hospitalizations this week. Now, 56,000 people are hospitalized. 11,000 are in the ICU. These are very big numbers nationally, and it’s accelerating very quickly

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  551. As far as his Executive Orders Biden is making a list to repeal or reverse them as we speak.

    He’s making cocoa.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  552. R.I.P. Alex Trebek

    And the answer is… cancer. :-(

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  553. In a movie, the virus should disappear just about at the time of the inauguration. Dr Gottlieb is projecting it will at the high then. (probably because of the speed at which shutdowns are being implemented)

    As for when it goes away:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transcript-scott-gottlieb-discusses-coronavirus-on-face-the-nation-november-8-2020

    ….this isn’t going to be over in 2021. I think 2021 will be much better than this year. But you still want to make sure you have adequate supplies as you come down that epidemic curve and head into the fall in 2021 when we’re going to face risks again.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  554. In 1984, Reagan’s inaugural was moved indoors due to bitterly cold weather. Every President is aware of William Henry Harrison’s fatal mistake. I expect this will be a small event, too.

    ACB for the oath!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  555. And the answer is… cancer.

    No.

    The question is:
    What is cancer?

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f)

  556. The Empire Strikes Back:

    ‘I’ve known him 47 years and had nuttin’ to do with gettin’ voters for Biden.’ – James Clyburn

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  557. In a movie, the virus should disappear just about at the time of the inauguration

    Just like the Iranian hostages.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  558. 561.In 1984, Reagan’s inaugural was moved indoors due to bitterly cold weather.

    True. Something Karl Rove conveniently forgot in his Fox rants.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  559. 554.I fail to see anything commendable about Trumps so called accomplishments.

    Start w/#498.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  560. RIP Alex Trebek (80).

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  561. @566 DCSCA

    Pfffft ! You think moving an embassy and NOT GETTING INTO A WAR are major accomplishments?

    How’s that John Durham investigation coming?

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  562. @568. For a Republican: yes.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  563. Senator Mitt Romney said Republican gains in down-ballot races in last week’s election were an endorsement of conservative principles, while losing the White House was “a referendum on a person.”

    https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/mittromney-conservative-principles-biden/2020/11/08/id/995986/

    Odd, the MSM is saying that it shows that the American people have moved to the Left. I wonder which story will prevail.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  564. “Yeah, it is a bad example, beer, one because you’re lumping me in with those “jokers” (whoever they are) who made Big Accusations without evidence.”

    Right, Montagu, about that….

    This fascist incident is equivalent to SJWs and woke progressives shouting down conservatives in college auditoriums. If the Ben Shapiros of the world can condemn the latter, then they should do the same for the former. One standard.
    Paul Montagu (cbbfc4) — 10/31/2020 @ 12:37 pm

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  565. President Trump has not started a war on his watch, Kevin.

    And South Korea will pay for that, eventually. The people of North Korea shortly thereafter (not they they aren’t suffering now).

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  566. How’s that John Durham investigation coming?

    It’ll be killed by Biden, and you’ll be doing backflips.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  567. Pfffft ! You think moving an embassy and NOT GETTING INTO A WAR are major accomplishments?

    Considering Democrats are historically the War Party, yes.

    Don’t forget, your favorite statesmen, John Kerry, said Arab-Israeli peace was impossible unless Palestinians got everything they wanted.

    And yet, Arab-Israeli normalization started under Trump.

    Won’t continue though, as Biden is beholden to the Mullahs of Tehran

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  568. Reading the news coverage this morning, you’d think the United States elected the Pope as president. We are hearing a lot about Biden being Catholic, quoting scripture, going to Mass. They will fluff hi up as long as Biden governs like a Democrat – abortion on demand, making nuns pay for it, etc.

    Pathetic.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a)

  569. KM @570-

    It was a referendum on the left, and they lost.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  570. @575: When will the halo make its first appearance?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  571. @574-
    Worst of all, he’ll take a more antagonistic attitude toward Saudi Arabia, which is a bulwark against Iran.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  572. @508. Not only that, what the hell has Taker Biden ever done to directly better your life after 47 years in government?

    Nothing.

    At least after 4 years in office, Trump sent me a check.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  573. @573 beer and pretzels

    It obviously has no merit otherwise Donnie would have played that card.

    @569 DCSCA and @574 Hoi Polloi:

    Trump deals in aggrievements NOT achievements. My remark about not getting into a war is not a big accomplishment was looking through the glasses of HISTORY not as a partisan of either party. If you could list any number of things someone DID’NT DO as achievements and make
    politicians look like gods. Lastly your jab saying “your favorite statesmen John Kerry” doesn’t hit the mark because I’m not a democrat but a Conservative.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  574. Senator Mitt Romney said Republican gains in down-ballot races in last week’s election were an endorsement of conservative principles, while losing the White House was “a referendum on a person.”

    Which is precisely why you lost to Obama, Willard; you can bet $10,000 on it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  575. It tells a lot about the substance of proof you have when Team Trump holds a press conference by his leading attorney Rudy Giuliani in the parking lot of “Four Seasons Total Landscaping’ in Philadelphia. Four Seasons is right next to an adult book store and the “Delaware Valley Cremation Center”……NO JOKE !

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  576. It obviously has no merit otherwise Donnie would have played that card.

    Now do “Trump Russia Collusion”

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  577. If I bet against what DCSCA bet for, every time, I’d be a bazillionaire.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  578. Four Seasons is right next to an adult book store and the “Delaware Valley Cremation Center”……NO JOKE !

    Giuliani had business both places.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  579. The SNL cold open was pretty good, except that Maya Rudolph doesn’t have the meanness needed for the Harris role.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  580. “Four Seasons Total Landscaping’ in Philadelphia. Four Seasons is right next to an adult book store and the “Delaware Valley Cremation Center”……NO JOKE !

    Small businesses are the backbone of the American economy. NO JOKE!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  581. @586. Nothing tops her Aunt Jemima.

    Except maybe syrup.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  582. I see that private space launches are all the rage, even in China.

    Galactic Energy succeeds with first orbital launch

    Their Deniable 1 booster and its Duplicity satellite were successfully launched yesterday.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  583. I may have mistranslated those names.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  584. Nothing tops her Aunt Jemima.

    I didn’t know Kamala Harris ever did an Aunt Jemima impression.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  585. Right, Montagu, about that….

    It’s what happened, beer, so deal with it. Now answer my question.

    Paul Montagu (143cdf)

  586. @589-
    “Nominally private”

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  587. R.I.P. Alex Trebek

    Icy (6abb50)

  588. South Ayrshire Golf club owner loses 2020 presidential election

    You gotta love the local take on the election.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  589. @ 583 beer and pretzels:

    And what purpose would it serve going back into “Trump Russia Collusion’ than to divert the attention away from the topic we are discussing? But then again Trump was great for trying to change the subject when he looked bad. Sorry I won’t fall for that

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  590. Giuliani was probably looking at the adult book store during his press conference for a place where Trump can exhibit his presidential library.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  591. Graham: If GOP doesn’t fight, there will ‘never be another Republican president elected again’
    ……..
    In an interview with Fox News’ “Sunday Morning Futures,” Graham pointed to several allegations of possible fraud or error that could have altered the election’s results. He called on fellow Republicans to push back against the idea that Biden’s victory is a done deal, warning that if they do not, it will set a precedent that would be disastrous for their party.

    “If Republicans don’t challenge and change the U.S. election system, there’ll never be another Republican president elected again,” Graham warned. “President Trump should not concede, we’re down to 10,000 votes in Georgia, he’s going to win North Carolina, we’ve gone from 93,000 votes to 20,000 votes in Arizona, where there are more votes to be counted. There are allegations of system failure, fraud.”
    …….

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  592. I have long admired Gary Kasparov.

    https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/ny-oped-trump-pathetic-meltdown-20201107-3o5pz2gkrze2vkrqt5gkjqfpz4-story.html

    Chess Grandmaster and World Champion, he fled the Soviet Union and founded the Renew Democracy Initiative. He knows dictators. That’s why he supports democracy around the world, and his analysis of this election is astute, as is his diagnosis of Trump.

    He’s right that Trump’s response to the electoral result is not defiant but pathetic. Trump is an abject failure, in business and elected office, however his assault on American democracy will continue. It will fail, because the American people are resolute.

    Kasparov calls this a “curative” election, and it is. Trump, the incompetent, has been thrown out of office. One term loser, that will forever be his epithet. Psychologically, he can’t accept that, so he’s going to continue his assault on American democracy.

    Claims of fraud, illegal votes, election theft, and so on–we’re taking this to the Supreme Court! It is so pathetic.

    Trump is a weak wannabe dictator. This is true. He is a failed authoritarian. Kasparov is correct that his temper tantrum is harming American democracy.

    Trump is actively undermining the election, claiming voter fraud, illegal votes, blah blah blah. He is blatantly attacking the institutions of governance. Properly submitted and legal votes by registered voters by the people were counted, and he lost. He can’t handle that, so he goes off range, becomes unhinged.

    There’s no telling what damage Trump can do to our democracy in the next few weeks. Ultimately, he will fail. Just as he failed in all of his business ventures.

    American democracy will survive and overcome this attempt at tyranny or medieval royalty. But as long as Republican mouthpieces keep defending or excusing Trump, the more the republic is corrupted.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  593. Ted Cruz, contradicting legal experts, says Trump still has ‘a path to victory.’
    Prominent Republicans continued to close ranks around President Trump as he refused to concede defeat, with Senator Ted Cruz of Texas saying on Sunday that he still believed the president had “a path to victory.”

    …….. Mr. Cruz suggested the matter might not be resolved until the members of the Electoral College met to vote in mid-December.

    Independent legal experts and other Republicans disagree, pointing to the lack of any serious and substantiated claims of voting irregularities that Mr. Trump’s lawyers have put forward.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  594. Obama fvcked over NASA. And though America’s spacesuit contractor is based in Delaware, as VP, Kamala Harris will head the U.S. Space Council. Blacks have opposed America’s space program since the 1960’s. See MLK and Ralph Abernathy for details.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  595. A newspaper named “Queens Daily Eagle” headline reads “Queens Man Evicted”. The story starts “A 74 year old Jamaica Estates developer has less than three months left at his current address…………..”

    https://queenseagle.com/all/queens-man-loses-presidential-election-trump

    For the record: I grew up about 5 miles away from Donnie in Woodhaven Queens

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  596. 10 million Americans have tested positive for the coronavirus.
    …….
    Case reports have soared in the last week, shattering records. The seven-day average of new cases now exceeds 100,000 per day, far more than any other country. The United States accounts for about one-fifth of all reported coronavirus cases in the world, a total that is nearing 50 million. In Europe, which accounts for as much or more of the global number, many countries have imposed national or regional restrictions far more encompassing than the limits in force in patches of the United States.
    ……..
    The Great Lakes, Great Plains and Mountain West states are where the virus has been spreading the fastest recently. North Dakota, South Dakota and Wisconsin have led the country for weeks in the number of new cases relative to their population, and Iowa has recently shot up to match Wisconsin.

    Daily new case reports in Minnesota have doubled since Halloween, prompting the state health department to warn residents last week that even small gatherings pose risks of transmission.
    ……..
    The ninth million followed the eighth by just over two weeks, and now the 10th has taken just 10 days.

    Covid-19 deaths are also on the rise, though not yet as steeply as case reports. As of Sunday afternoon, more than 237,000 people had died from the virus in the U.S., and the seven-day average of deaths per day was over 900 for the first time since August. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention predicts that the toll could reach 256,000 by Nov. 21.
    >>>>>>>>>

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  597. @602-
    Andrew Yang is no John Brown.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  598. To illustrate DCSCA’s point:

    https://www.history.com/news/apollo-11-moon-landing-launch-protests

    However,some 9 years later, Guion Bluford, Ronald McNair, and Fred Gregory probably had the run of the house in what should have been TVs first group living reality show (among 35 astronauts selected for 1978 Astronaut Training Class).

    urbanleftbehind (ff03ab)

  599. The Empire Strikes Back:

    Swamp Gas: Dubya makes congratulatory calls to Biden & Harris.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  600. I like Bush 43’s letter. Indeed Trump’s supporters were heard, and Biden is the next president. There’s no reason to keep hammering at it. Trump’s record speaks for itself. He must face justice, but that’s not Biden’s role.

    Folks worried about the unravelling of Trump’s EOs will make some good points. A lot of those EOs had the right idea, but were lazy and incompetent. We’ve never had a president like this, who simply couldn’t get legislation passed, couldn’t be trusted, and operated on a hateful basis. John Mccain actually was a real problem for Trump on legislation, but anyone with Mccain’s background who was treated the way Trump treated him wouldn’t help Trump. Like embarrassing Romney. Trump was great at acting outrageously, getting the TV to point out how terrible he is. Making deals? Nope.

    But Biden will take us back on some issues. If he is wise, he will work with us instead of defining unity as ignoring one side. I have my doubts, but I know that it’s very good Trump is going soon. The damage was relentless and Biden is a better man than Trump.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  601. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/8/2020 @ 11:06 am

    The SNL cold open was pretty good, except that Maya Rudolph doesn’t have the meanness needed for the Harris role.

    Although Saturday Night Live was listed in the TV listings on the inside back page of the New York Post for 11:30 pm, we still saw Clemson vs Notre Dame college football. I thought maybe they skipped it this week. (The New York Times stopped printing television listings; the New York Daily News still does. Both of them do it starting at 6:30 pm. The Daly News continues till a midnight show – the New York Post till 11:30.

    I can find Saturday Night Live online.I had thought they wouldn;t skip thee week after the election. What time did you see it?

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  602. @606. MLK’s swipe was less publicized, lost in his blasts against Vietnam. And, of course, Goldwater opposed Apollo, too- but made sure his butt got ‘preferred seating’ at the 11 launch, just Abernathy did w/his protesting.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  603. How many hundreds of millions did Democrats spend to in GA and to try and unseat McConnell and Graham? How much do you think they’d be willing to spend to put their aids and assistants up in housing for 3 months in Georgia?

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  604. aides*

    NJRob (eb56c3)

  605. @609. We get it twice here, Sammy. 8:30, live & 11:30 repeated.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  606. Trump is a weak wannabe dictator. This is true. He is a failed authoritarian. Kasparov is correct that his temper tantrum is harming American democracy.

    Whatever he has gotten right (through “great instincts” or whatever) will forever be tainted by his disgraceful behavior toward the democratic process itself — in addition to the crude face he has put on the presidential office every day he holds it.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  607. @ 608 Dustin:

    You nailed it perfectly. Well put !

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  608. Trump increased the Republican percentage of the black vote by about 6 points (and with it reduced the net loss in the cities) and thiss may be a trend.

    The (black female) Republican candidate for Congress in Baltimore got 29% of the vote.

    He also increased is Hispanic share, especially in one county in Texas, where jobs may have been a factor.

    Hispanics did turnout for Biden in Arizona, but this was a completely grassroots or independeent phenomena.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  609. There were lots and lots of American flags visible on television last night at the Biden speech/

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  610. Nursing home COVID-19 cases rise four-fold in surge states
    Despite Trump administration efforts to erect a protective shield around nursing homes, coronavirus cases are surging within facilities in states hard hit by the latest onslaught of COVID-19.

    An analysis of federal data from 20 states for The Associated Press finds that new weekly cases among residents rose nearly four-fold from the end of May to late October, from 1,083 to 4,274. Resident deaths more than doubled, from 318 a week to 699, according to the study by University of Chicago health researchers Rebecca Gorges and Tamara Konetzka.

    Equally concerning, weekly cases among nursing home staff in surge states more than quadrupled, from 855 the week ending May 31, to 4,050 the week ending Oct. 25…….

    The administration has allocated $5 billion to nursing homes, shipped nearly 14,000 fast-test machines with a goal of supplying every facility and tried to shore up stocks of protective equipment. But the data call into question the broader White House game plan, one that pushes states to reopen while maintaining that vulnerable people can be cocooned, even if the virus rebounds around them.

    “ Trying to protect nursing home residents without controlling community spread is a losing battle,” said Konetzka, a nationally recognized expert on long-term care. “Someone has to care for vulnerable nursing home residents, and those caregivers move in and out of the nursing home daily, providing an easy pathway for the virus to enter.”

    Nursing homes and other long-term care facilities account for about 1% of the U.S. population, but represent 40% of COVID-19 deaths, according to the COVID Tracking Project.
    ………

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  611. @ 617 Sammy Finkelman

    And your point is what? Are you perhaps insinuating the left isn’t patriotic?

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  612. A lot of those EOs had the right idea, but were lazy and incompetent. We’ve never had a president like this, who simply couldn’t get legislation passed, couldn’t be trusted, and operated on a hateful basis.

    His attitude of “I alone can fix it” and “Everyone else has been incompetent” and “I know more than anyone else about everything” did not encourage working constructively with others, gathering information, taking advice, applying persuasion effectively, etc. And the ardent supporters who have seen him as their unique champion against the entire D.C. establishment, including career public-health experts (i.e. people who actually know things), encouraged him in the “I alone can fix it” posture.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  613. 572. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/8/2020 @ 10:41 am

    The people of North Korea shortly thereafter (not they they aren’t suffering now).

    Kim Jong Un claims there is no coronavirus in North Korea.

    Actually anyone with the virus gets arrested and put in detention camps where they starve to death unless their family brings food there.

    https://nypost.com/2020/11/03/north-korean-covid-19-victims-left-to-die-in-secret-camps-report

    Tim Peters, a Christian activist who runs Seoul-based nonprofit Helping Hands Korea, told the South China Morning Post that the sources have reported that patients are suffering at camps near the Chinese border.

    “One of the more alarming pieces of information that has come our way is that the DPRK government is providing absolutely minimal or no food or medicine to those who are interred there,” Peters told the outlet, using the acronym for the country’s official name, the Democratic People’s Republic of Korea.

    “So, it’s up to the families of the quarantined citizens to come to the edge of the camps and bring food to keep quarantined relatives alive along with whatever health-related aids that they can muster, whether it be purchased medicines sold in the jangmadang markets, or even herbal home remedies gathered from mountainsides,” he said.

    “My sources indicate many in these camps have already died, not only from the pandemic but also from starvation and related causes,” added Peters, whose group delivers medical and other supplies to the North.

    He said the reported neglect matched accounts from survivors of the rogue regime’s prison camps, where “providing an absolutely minimum amount of food” is routine and inmates often die of starvation without help from their families.

    And this is probably an improvement over the way the dictatorship was 30 years ago. I mean, families are allowed to help.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  614. All FOUR of the Baby Boomer presidents have been disappointments.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  615. North Korea actually can;t test for the virus anyway. But some people apparently got tested or came under suspicions of having the virus.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  616. 616, it was deferred payback for the Arpaio-Brewer days, much like Georgia was likely payback for denying Stacey Abrams.

    urbanleftbehind (ff03ab)

  617. 607. I think they’re overdoing it. Ir’s ridiculous. They may love the country but they don’t love the flag. The Liberty Bell maybe. Or the Statue of Liberty.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  618. Also, Trump’s congenital need to take credit for everything good and deny responsibility for anything bad is not the attitude of an effective leader. It doesn’t encourage cooperation and compromise from others.

    Trump will never understand Truman’s maxim (echoes by Reagan): “It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit.” Getting credit is what Trump really, truly cares about.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  619. * echoed

    Radegunda (20775b)

  620. Supposedly, the only counties that truly flipped in AZ were the Native American reservation counties. They have traditionally voted more conservative then NAVs in other states (Tester wouldn’t be a thing without them in MT), but this year they flipped.

    urbanleftbehind (ff03ab)

  621. Hopefully this boondoggle will be the first EO to be repealed. Anybody seen their report?

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  622. @ 625 Sammy Finkelman:

    seeing that 607 makes no sense to your post I’m assuming you put the wrong number in your response and meant my comment @619. Trump hugging the flag during his speech earlier this year wasn’t over board? Where do you get off determining how patriotic someone is? We are never going to get this country on the right track as long as people think they and they alone hold a monopoly on patriotism. Partisanship is not Patriotism ! People have different ideas about how things are run and the quicker we get away from your “IGNITED STATES OF AMERICA” the better we will all be.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  623. Good on ya, Dubya.

    Dave (1bb933)

  624. Biden’s first order of business today– go to Beau’s grave.

    The man oozes death; Jaysus, Joe– just buy a Ouija Board why dontcha.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  625. Has anybody seen Hunter???

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  626. Anybody seen their report?

    I heard it’s coming in two weeks, along with Trump’s healthcare plan, Durham’s big indictments, the vaccine, and the check from Mexico for the wall.

    Dave (1bb933)

  627. Shorter and less convoluted.

    “Just a reminder: The news media called Al Gore “president-elect” for 37 days in 2000 before the court-ordered recount of votes in Florida was conducted.

    We have a long way to go!”

    — Kelly

    Right now I am not seeing the vote turn towards President Trump, but I could be wrong. What gets me is the rampant in your face we don’t care that you know election fraud. The attitude seems to be go ahead, what can you do, nothing.

    For me this race wasn’t a popularity contest or even whether or not President Trump is a good man, after all God called king David who was an adulterer, murder, deceitful person a man after his own heart. As a Christian I believe the only perfect person to reside on earth was Jesus the Christ. All others are imperfect. Written to everyone.

    Romans 3:21-23 NKJV
    [21] But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, [22] even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; [23] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

    Written to Christians.

    1 John 1:8-10 NKJV
    [8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. [9] If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. [10] If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

    For me what the election was about and what the 2016 election was about is what each party stands for. My beliefs tell me that abortion on demand up to and after delivery is murder and abhorrent. I cannot get past that issue. I can’t and refuse to vote for the person who is pro abortion.

    If it comes to be that Joe Biden becomes President just as with President Obama I will pray for him. You won’t find seething hate coming out of me and I won’t call him Hitler either.

    2 Chronicles 7:13-14 NKJV
    [13] When I shut up heaven and there is no rain, or command the locusts to devour the land, or send pestilence among My people, [14] if My people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  628. 617/625. I think they’re overdoing it. It’s ridiculous. They may love the country but they don’t love the flag. The Liberty Bell maybe. Or the Statue of Liberty.

    When your candidate is bland, you wrap him in colorful garb to distract, Sammy.

    The Empire Strikes Back:

    “We [Biden & Clyburn] really aren’t close friends. But he’s been a buddy.” – James Clyburn

    Clyburn is a racist.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  629. Sadly, as many Americans could tell the difference between Clyburn and Clarence Thomas as can tell the difference between John Lewis and Elijah Cummings.

    urbanleftbehind (ff03ab)

  630. @ 634 Dave:

    well put !………Their hypocrisy never seems to amaze me.

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  631. “When aces fall out of your sleeves, you’ve given the cowboys permission to shoot you.”

    Though in Biden’s case it’s less ‘aces falling out of his sleeve’ then ‘laying down a five of a kind hand.’

    Midnight Ballot Rider (404c9b)

  632. Trump is still in our media’s head. Focused more on our Captain’s reaction to losing his command rather than what the president-elect will do, besides form a committee to write a report to make recommendations to create a plan… which is exactly what you’d expect a 47 year swamp gasser to do.

    “You don’t work with a Captain because you like the way he parts his hair. You work with him because he’s got the job or you’re no good.” – Barney Greenwald [Jose Ferrer] ‘The Caine Mutiny’ 1954

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  633. @637. The ‘we had nothing to do with him choosing her’ movement is in high gear already.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  634. @ 640 DCSCA:

    Great comparison psychologically using Donald Trump and Captain Quigg…you nailed it

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  635. @642. You must be new here; our Captain has been ‘our Captain’ for four years.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  636. @625 Oh for the love of God, yes there are plenty of liberals that love the flag.

    @635 Obviously if abortion is the most important issue for you, you aren’t going to vote for anyone who is pro-choice and you should vote your values, but this, “abortion on demand up to and after delivery” also isn’t a thing that happens. There is no abortion after deliver and abortions in the 3rd trimester are due to something going very wrong in a wanted pregnancy.

    Nic (896fdf)

  637. Great comparison psychologically using Donald Trump and Captain Quigg…you nailed it

    You’ll be even more impressed a week from now, after he posts the same thing 50 times.

    Dave (1bb933)

  638. There is no abortion after deliver and abortions in the 3rd trimester are due to something going very wrong in a wanted pregnancy.

    91% of abortions are performed in the first trimester, 9% in the second trimester, and about 100/year (~0.01%) in the third trimester.

    Source: FoxNews

    Dave (1bb933)

  639. @645. I’m on fire, Davey. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  640. @562. Sammy, I remember going to a Jeopardy! taping at 30 Rock back around Thanksgiving, 1966,w/t family when Art Fleming was hosting. Small studio, too. They taped two shows that day for Christmas time airing and it was a big surprise to see how low-tech the show was [at the time] as opposed to what we’d see projected on air for broadcast. Simple set, well lit. The gameboard was flat, the cards in the catagories were just poster board and stage hands were scurrying around the back pulling them up and out w/each contestant response. And a techie was at a sound board working the buzzers and bells.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  641. I don’t have a Twitter and as a matter of course avoid that swamp but got sent a tweet by Trump Jr. that I though really was good. In the past two weeks we’ve been treated to numerous talking heads pushing the narrative that Trump supporters were going to be rioting everywhere, shooting people etc. Trump Jr said :

    “70 million pissed off Republicans and not one city burned to the ground”

    Yup Another narrative gone south.

    If Biden wins (I’ll wait until it’s official) fine. But I will not sit here and say it is wrong to pursue truth in the election. IF there is fraud it needs to be exposed and corrected. I honestly would feel the same if Biden were the one claiming fraud. Without transparency and exposure of truth I think there will be many who never trust our system again.

    Marci (405d43)

  642. There’s a huge difference between Bush v Gore and Trump v Reality. Kobach has a better chance of finding illegal votes for Hillary than Trump finding multi-state electoral fraud that will alter the outcome.

    Paul Montagu (143cdf)

  643. @649-
    Is that Junior conceding the obvious?

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  644. I’m on fire, Davey.

    Fact check: True.

    Dave (1bb933)

  645. @652. And w/t help of Jack Daniels, Davey, will get lit tonight. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  646. @653 :) That’s up there with the Anderson Cooper turtle statement!

    norcal (a5428a)

  647. @653. Some sons of Nippon are lodged deeper up in the Emperor’s ‘cave’ than others. Perhaps he and Lindsey can share some sake and a kimono before they’re dragged off Iwo to see the surrender. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  648. President-Elect Biden Has A Plan To Combat COVID-19. Here’s What’s In It
    ……..
    Specifically, Biden’s plan calls for empowering scientists at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to help set national, evidence-based guidance to stop outbreaks as well as making significant investments in vaccine distribution, testing and the creation of a public health workforce to carry out contact tracing and other services.
    ……..
    (Former Surgeon General Dr. Vivek) Murthy said Biden will focus on helping Americans get what they need to keep themselves and their families safe. “What you’re going to see is a laser focus on ensuring that people get … adequate testing and clear information,” he said.

    Murthy said a Biden administration will have a unified message and strategy on how to proceed. “Rebuilding public trust is about communication. It’s about following the science,” he added.
    ………
    Here’s a summary of Biden’s proposals:

    1. Set shared guidance for slowing community spread
    ………
    2. Seriously ramp up testing.
    ………
    3. Hire thousands of public health workers.
    ……..
    4. Help people get health insurance
    ……..
    5. Create a caregiving workforce
    ……..
    6. Boost vaccine distribution and personal protective equipment production
    ……..
    >>>>>>>>>

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  649. @637. Clyburn’s ‘who me?!’ back-peddling is just amazingly greasy; a classic swamp gasser.

    ‘He’s our guy but I really had nothing to do with it’ act is just hilarious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  650. @657. So let’s form a committee, to write a report, to propose recommendations to quill a fresh plan.

    A regular George McClellan.

    Albert Speer had a lot of plans, too. But then, he was just an architect.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  651. I can find Saturday Night Live online.I had thought they wouldn;t skip thee week after the election. What time did you see it?

    https://youtu.be/vJYL4Osyipc

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  652. Is that Junior conceding the obvious?

    Trump Jr said the section in quotation marks. In case you missed it that would be this:
    “70 million pissed off Republicans and not one city burned to the ground”

    If that is not stating the obvious I don’t know what is.

    The test of the post was mine. Quotation marks are used for a reason Rip. I sure haven’t seen Trump supporters rioting. Angry yes. But not rioting. That would be leftist methodology. Note I said leftist. Not Democrat.

    Marci (405d43)

  653. Rest, not test.

    Marci (405d43)

  654. FNC’s Wallace: Ted Cruz Is Like a Japanese Soldier Who Thinks the War Is ‘Still Going On’

    Ted is hoping to pick up Trump’s supporters after Trump goes. He’s been hoping this since late 2015 and Trump has yet to leave. The joke would rally be on Ted if Trump’s claim that he was cheated was vindicated through Cruz’ own efforts.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  655. I saw the quote marks, Marci. Sorry you took my little teasing so seriously. 😏

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  656. I’m really trying hard to get in comment # 666!

    Dave wrote:

    I’m trying to figure out how a 20% chance of innocence, or even a 49% chance, in the preponderance of the evidence standard, is enough to punish someone.

    Like so many others, you either misunderstand or misrepresent the purpose of the process.

    The purpose is not to punish the accused; it is to deter sexual harassment and to protect the victim and their constitutionally protected right to use and enjoy government-supported educational facilities. The respondent has no more or less right to do the same.

    Uhhh, they are attempting to deter through the use of punishment.

    We have criminal laws against rape and other forms of sexual assault. If the ‘deterrence’ of years and years of potential incarceration isn’t sufficient, I’m not sure where being suspended from college adds much deterrent factor.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  657. Quick! I want comment #666!

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  658. Mr M gets it right:

    So, if turns out that there’s only, say, an 80% chance that some fratboy date-raped your daughter, she’ll just have sit in the same classroom with him for four years, or find a different school to attend? (Dave)

    My god, but you would hang a lot of people to make sure you got all the bad guys.

    Do you think that expelling a person for rape isn’t a serious thing in their lives? But you’d be fine with doing that to an innocent now and then?

    This is all based on three things:

    1 – Rape is a very difficult crime to prove, and therefore some reported rapes do go unpunished;
    2 – The only way to get more rapes punished is to lower the standard of proof. Since the feminists insist that women never lie about rape, her word should be sufficient for conviction; and thus
    3 – Since we can’t change the standard of proof in criminal law, we’ll just do it under Title IX at the universities.

    So, more rapes and other sexual assaults will be punished, at the cost of some innocent people being punished. And, after all, we know that all men are guilty anyway, of something. At least one lesbian feminist blogger asserted that all “penis in vagina” sex is rape.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  659. Mr M wrote:

    Senator Mitt Romney said Republican gains in down-ballot races in last week’s election were an endorsement of conservative principles, while losing the White House was “a referendum on a person.”

    Odd, the MSM is saying that it shows that the American people have moved to the Left. I wonder which story will prevail.

    If the credentialed media are saying that, then it will be repeated ad infinitum until it becomes Accepted Truth.™

    At least in the Bluegrass State, Donald Trump got more votes than Mitch McConnell, though both won by huge margins.

    Perhaps it was peole hedging their bets, wanting to get rid of President Trump but scared fecesless about whet the Democrats would do in office.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  660. Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313) — 11/8/2020 @ 12:34 pm

    All FOUR of the Baby Boomer presidents have been disappointments.

    Joe Biden is not part of the postwar baby boom (and Barack Obama isn’t really)

    Joe Biden is part of the World War II baby boom. (as was Barack Obama’s mother)

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  661. Alex Trebek taped his last shows 10 days ago. That would be October 29. This therefore was not a natural death but caused by medication.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  662. Mr Polloi wrote:

    Reading the news coverage this morning, you’d think the United States elected the Pope as president. We are hearing a lot about Biden being Catholic, quoting scripture, going to Mass. They will fluff hi up as long as Biden governs like a Democrat – abortion on demand, making nuns pay for it, etc.

    Pathetic.

    Those of us who actually are Catholic know one thing: Joe Biden is no Catholic. At least one priest has denied him the Eucharist due to his support of abortion; all of the others should as well.

    It’s more than just opposition to abortion. Under Canon Law §1398, “A person who procures a completed abortion incurs a latae sententiae excommunication.” Procures includes paying for it. With his repudiation of the Hyde Amendment, the next [shudder!] President wants to have all of us pay for abortions, which would be, in effect, to subject us all to latae sententiae excommunication.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  663. If the media is the body calling the elections, we’d have had President Dewey.

    LibraryGryffon (c72443)

  664. Joe Biden is not part of the postwar baby boom (and Barack Obama isn’t really)

    Technically the Boomer generation was born 1946-1965. My personal definition is: “You have no memory of WW2 and you know exactly were you were when you heard the president had been killed.”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  665. This therefore was not a natural death but caused by medication.

    Sammy, find something else to talk about.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  666. Marci wrote:

    But I will not sit here and say it is wrong to pursue truth in the election.

    The Democrats were just fine with Jill Stein’s fruitless recount efforts in 2016, and the lovely Mrs Clinton even helped pay for them.

    The Democrats were all on board for Vice President Al Gore’s legal battles to fabricate new count all the votes in 2000.

    I guess it all depends on whose ox is gored. :)

    OK, OK, I denounce myself for that pun.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  667. @668 I suspect this election was about one political party or another and was instead an election for more stability and less crazy.

    @671 Those of us who are Catholic don’t always agree with the rest of us who are Catholic. You should form and act within your own conscience and everyone else will too. How well you do that is between you and your priest, as is true for all the rest of us, but I’ll pray for you that you are able to overcome what appears to be a tendency toward judgementalism.

    Nic (896fdf)

  668. Sammy, find something else to talk about.

    Hey, Sammy, you know ol’Plagiarist Joe turns 78 years old in just 13 days?! Check the 2020 Social Security actuary tables on longevity for Caucasian males at that age.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  669. I can’t stand SNL of late. It’s way to partisan Democrat for me.

    Having said that, I’d tune in to watch Alec Baldwin and (guest) Keith Richards sing and play this song together, for Alec’s final appearance as Donald J. Trump:

    https://youtu.be/KWqxFMUnskw

    qdpsteve (8d496a)

  670. 657/ Quoting NPR story:

    Specifically, Biden’s plan calls for empowering scientists at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to help set national, evidence-based guidance to stop outbreaks as well as making significant investments in vaccine distribution, testing and the creation of a public health workforce to carry out contact tracing and other services.

    All wrongheaded.

    Not one thing in the above paragraph (and much that is below it) makes sense.

    1. The standards of evidence are set far too high.

    2. Therapeutics are not even on the table!!

    And therapeutics are much more valuable in an epidemic than a vaccine, as Donald Trump said, but then dropped the subject, probably because people were telling him to stop saying it. Doald Trump has no persistence, or doesn’t know when he’s right.

    3. A vaccine is useful, before an epidemic hits.

    Doesn’t the CDC recommend their flu vaccine before flu season? A vaccine can begin to have effect only months after it is rolled out.

    4. The things that the CDC would recommend to “stop outbreaks” are not evidence based!

    And never can be.

    As the New York Times says:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/06/opinion/sunday/coronavirus-masks.html

    Randomized trials look at the benefits of the intervention only for the person who is enrolled in the trial. It’s not possible for them to conclude how effectively masks prevent community spread to others — people who are not enrolled in the trial.
    To use a randomized trial to measure the effect on the spread of the disease, researchers would have to find a community, divide it randomly into two and cut off all interaction between the two groups. If the communities of mask-wearers interacted with non-mask-wearers, the non-mask-wearers could infect people who would otherwise be protected. The results would be uninterpretable.

    There’s more: Scientists would also have to require cloth masks for one group, while forbidding cloth masks for the other. But when people see others wearing masks distributed by researchers, they will improvise and make some masks for themselves. Researchers would have to require and ensure that people in the mask group wore masks everywhere, while surveilling the other group to ensure no one wore a mask at all. This is not only grossly unethical; it also just isn’t possible in any experimental conditions I can imagine.

    It gets thornier: This pathogen has a very skewed distribution in which superspreading events account for much of the transmissions while many people — upward of 70 percent in multiple studies — barely transmit at all. That means luck plays an oversize role in how some places will have outbreaks just because of misfortune, while others will be spared. Such imbalanced phenomena are hard to nail down with just a few studies, even if truly randomized. Was it the mask, or serendipity, that prevented an individual from spreading the disease? For such a skewed phenomenon, we’d need many, many studies to establish causality with confidence.

    (opinion column today)

    She thinks she’s sticking up for the CDC against Rand Paul. Actually, she’s demonstrating a contradiction and showing that Biden’s advisers are ignorant fools.

    It is flat out lie to describe any of the usual recommendations about limiting the spread of the disease as “evidence based” Flat out wrong. But I’ll go further and say it is a lie. And she proved it.

    They use the word “evidence based” only because everything that the professionals say is supposed to be “evidence based.” The term Evidence based is used to say what somebody else comes with shouldn’t be done. Never to approve.

    It is a lie to imply that the standard for using antibodies, or zinc, or Vitamin D, is any less robust than the standard for recommending masks.

    The only reason they made an exception for masks and social distancing is because if they didn’t say that, they’d have …nothing.

    And then maybe people would look for other experts.

    5. And all these social distancing measures will not STOP the disease. They will only hold it in place or set back the clock. R0 will remain at low levels only so long as they remain in place

    Otherwise you are back to where you were in early March. You can never lift them until there is herd immunity. You are treading water. You are on a hamster wheel. Until you’ve vaccinated 95% of the population pr that percentage is immune in some other way.

    6. Testing. Accurate, rapid tests such as the Biden plan envisions don;t exist That’s why the White House became a hot spot. Only testing combined with a bubble works. A whole country, like Australia or New Zealand, can become a bubble, but it’s still a bubble and they must remain very careful about letting anybody else into the bubble.

    7. Contact tracing. This is only useful if the number of cases is small. Far too many people have the disease for contact tracing to be of any great worth.

    Biden;s “plan” Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. And it is not an accident that it is wrong.

    Because it’s trying to improve on what people have done while sticking to the conventional wisdom. and without doing any real thinking, and without listening to any dissenting opinions (some might be right)

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  671. Murthy said a Biden administration will have a unified message and strategy on how to proceed. “Rebuilding public trust is about communication.

    Since when is groupthink, and silencing dissent, a good avenue to the truth?

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  672. No to a unified message.

    If it is really true, all (honest) people will be unified just as we are becoming unified about how Joe Biden won the presidential election.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  673. 60 Minutes is doing a story now about how Donald Trump was right about the military being involved in distributing a vaccine (without, of course, mentioning that Donald Trump said that and that it was disputed)

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/covid-19-vaccine-distribution-60-minutes-2020-11-08/

    Vaccines have been manufactured pending FDA approval. They would be ready to go tomorrow. There are two vaccines on deck, I think, but the Pfizer vaccine requires two doses, 21 days apart and must be kept frozen at 0=minus 80 degrees Celsius, (112 degrees blow zero Fahrenheit) creating a real logistical problem.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  674. Nic wrote:

    Those of us who are Catholic don’t always agree with the rest of us who are Catholic. You should form and act within your own conscience and everyone else will too. How well you do that is between you and your priest, as is true for all the rest of us, but I’ll pray for you that you are able to overcome what appears to be a tendency toward judgementalism.

    So, you are saying that it is perfectly Catholic to support something that the Church says incurs an automatic excommunication?

    Abraham Lincoln once posed the question: ‘If you call a dog’s tail a leg, how many legs does it have?’ and then answered his own query: ‘Four, because calling a tail a leg doesn’t make it one.’ In claiming to be Catholic, the esteemed Mr Biden is calling a tail a leg.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  675. 676 Nic (896fdf) — 11/8/2020 @ 4:17 pm

    @668 I suspect this election was about one political party or another and was instead an election for more stability and less crazy.

    Less crazy = Joe Biden for president and Republicans majorities in Congress.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  676. So, you are saying that it is perfectly Catholic to support something that the Church says incurs an automatic excommunication?

    Oh, you cultists; ask Galileo. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  677. @685 Both my BYU Cougars and the Notre Dame Fighting Irish are on track to have undefeated seasons. I would love to see them meet in the postseason. It would be the ultimate God Bowl.

    norcal (a5428a)

  678. I know, DCSCA. You would call it the Cult Bowl. :)

    norcal (a5428a)

  679. Nic wrote:

    Those of us who are Catholic don’t always agree with the rest of us who are Catholic. You should form and act within your own conscience and everyone else will too. How well you do that is between you and your priest, as is true for all the rest of us, but I’ll pray for you that you are able to overcome what appears to be a tendency toward judgementalism.

    So, you are saying that it is perfectly Catholic to support something that the Church says incurs an automatic excommunication?

    Abraham Lincoln once posed the question: ‘If you call a dog’s tail a leg, how many legs does it have?’ and then answered his own query: ‘Four, because calling a tail a leg doesn’t make it one.’ In claiming to be Catholic, the esteemed Mr Biden is calling a tail a leg.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e) — 11/8/2020 @ 5:26 pm

    You’re mistaken about current church law.

    https://theconversation.com/what-changes-when-pope-francis-grants-all-priests-the-authority-to-forgive-abortions-69330#:~:text=Abortion%20%E2%80%93%20both%20sin%20and%20crime&text=As%20a%20sin%2C%20procuring%20an,expulsion%20from%20the%20Catholic%20Church.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  680. (Er, I apologize to the non-Catholics re the theology discussion)

    @683 I’m saying that you are taking a simplified stance on a complicated issue. We live in a country where freedom of religion is a founding value of this country. It is basically the only reason we were allowed to live in this country. Therefore we are required to accept that our ability to choose to force other people to live our religious values is by foundationally curtailed. Abortion, especially the Catholic argument is fundamentally a religious argument. Is possible to believe that 1. You personally are against abortion AND 2. That, on the basis of religious freedom, other people have the right to act and believe differently and should be able to act on those differing belief. There are a lot of things that are intrinsic evils that are legal in the United States and are against Church teachings that people have the right to do. Each person has to make their own decision that they square with their own conscience and with God, but none of us know what another person’s true reasoning is. It is between themselves and their priest and God.

    Nic (896fdf)

  681. Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313) — 11/8/2020 @ 12:54 pm

    @630. Yes I left the wrong number.

    Trump hugging the flag during his speech earlier this year wasn’t over board?

    It’s all overboard. Except that, at that ceremoney Biden seems to have raised and doubled.

    Liberals love the constitution. Not the flag. The Flag meas war to them. Or stupidity. There are no ideals in the flag. If liberals want a symbol, it;s the Statue of Liberty. Or the Liberty Bell. Not the flag.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  682. It’s OK to have one flag or two, because it might be a symbol of the government, and Joe Biden, after all, is saying he is President-Elect and soon to be chief magistrate of the government. But flags and flags and flags? Here a flag, there a flag, everywhere a flag, flag. That’s phony.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  683. @688 I’m assuming that was for DinK?

    @690 I promise you that there are liberals who love the flag. I grew up in a military environment. Contrary to popular belief, there are liberals there and they do love the flag.

    Nic (896fdf)

  684. Nic wrote:

    I’m saying that you are taking a simplified stance on a complicated issue. We live in a country where freedom of religion is a founding value of this country. It is basically the only reason we were allowed to live in this country. Therefore we are required to accept that our ability to choose to force other people to live our religious values is by foundationally curtailed. Abortion, especially the Catholic argument is fundamentally a religious argument. Is possible to believe that 1. You personally are against abortion AND 2. That, on the basis of religious freedom, other people have the right to act and believe differently and should be able to act on those differing belief. There are a lot of things that are intrinsic evils that are legal in the United States and are against Church teachings that people have the right to do. Each person has to make their own decision that they square with their own conscience and with God, but none of us know what another person’s true reasoning is. It is between themselves and their priest and God.

    You might have a point, were it not for the fact that the oh-so-very-Catholic Mr Biden wants to change the law, to get rid of the Hyde Amendment, and put all of the taxpayers on the hook for paying for abortions. The Mass-every-Sunday Mr Biden wants to change regulations to force Catholic nuns to include contraceptive and abortion coverage in their health insurance plans.

    This really isn’t a complicated subject. Mr Biden tells us he is Catholic, yet he is not just rejecting one the Church’s most strongly held positions, but wants to go against it even further.

    Mr Biden says that he is a Catholic, but he doesn’t act like one. He has a choice to make: is it more important for him to be a Catholic, or a Democrat? It’s obvious to me that, for Mr Biden, being a Democrat is the more important part.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  685. Biden was denied Holy Communion last year. Did he heed that wake-up call?

    felipe (023cc9)

  686. Mr 123: While only bishops could, in most cases, lift excommunications, there were exceptions. Redemptorist priests — my pastor in Hampton, Virginia, was a Redemptorist — serve mostly as missionaries, and always had the power to lift excommunications, because of the conditions under which many of them served; in many instances, there was no way for a bishop to be present for things.

    But a parish priest lifting the excommunication over an abortion still requires that the excommunicated person actually regret the abortion, and confess it as a sin.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  687. “In claiming to be Catholic, the esteemed Mr Biden is calling a tail a leg.”

    You’re not the person who gets to make that call.

    Davethulhu (6e0d47)

  688. 633. DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/8/2020 @ 1:07 pm

    Has anybody seen Hunter???

    Hunter was there last night.

    https://www.nytimes.com/article/biden-speech-transcript.html

    … would not be here without the love and tireless support of Jill, Hunter, Ashley, all of our grandchildren and their spouses, and all our family….

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  689. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    It’s OK to have one flag or two, because it might be a symbol of the government, and Joe Biden, after all, is saying he is President-Elect and soon to be chief magistrate of the government. But flags and flags and flags? Here a flag, there a flag, everywhere a flag, flag. That’s phony.

    The esteemed Mr Biden was no different from most politicians: his campaign imagery, his website, his logo, were all red, white and blue. The “E” in his name has been replaced with three red stripes, which is supposed to remind you of the flag. Perhaps if Mrs Emhoff had enough respect for her husband to have taken his name, they could have made the first initial of her last name the same way.

    Unlike most conservatives, I see the flag as exactly what it is: a piece of cloth which represents the United States, but if someone burns it, I’m not going to fall into the outrage trap they are trying to set.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  690. The Vatican should not wield power over the President of the United States, nor, for that matter, over any other person in government anywhere in the United States, its municipalities, counties, states, territories and possessions, or anywhere else in the world while in the service of the aforesaid United States, its municipalities, counties, states, territories and possessions, whether on, over, or under, air, land, sea, or outer space. Why don’t you just invite the Pope to move into the White House and replace Congress with the College of Cardinals?

    nk (1d9030)

  691. My God. With a feeble, 78 year old multiple brain surgeried president elect hobbling to a January inaugural, go take a look at heartbeat-away-from-being-the-most-powerful-person-on-Earth-Kamala’s wiki profile.

    Zero international experience. A domestic ‘Willie wonk’- a.

    She’s qualified to be a mayor, a governor–perhaps senator- but not VP or CIC of the USA. Makes Quayle look like Churchill and LBJ like Jesus Christ.

    For a 47 year swamp creature, even this lousy pick makes Biden’s judgment appear worse than poor. And odds are, she’ll be POTUS.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  692. You would need to excommunicate most of the laity for either personally considering or voting for a candidate that supported marriage outside the church, remarriage without an annulment, personally having a or supporting abortion, or violating any one of the commandments. It would shrink an already shrinking church.

    Also, I don’t need to say why the Catholic Church is the last organization to lecture on morality.

    Rip Murdock (e75e6a)

  693. (continued apologies for the theology, and to those who have seen me make some of these arguments at length in the past)

    @693 There are four issues here:

    1. The Hyde amendment and abortion. If you read Biden’s reasoning to his change in stance regarding the Hyde amendment, it is similar to what I wrote above, based in the idea that healthcare would be extended to far more women and that therefore based on not imposing one’s values on other, the Hyde amendment would need to go. It wasn’t an endorsement of abortion.

    2. No health plan is required to cover abortion. None of them. No one is required to cover abortion. The Temple of Satan doesn’t have to cover abortion. Exxon doesn’t have to cover abortion,

    3. There is no Catholic prohibition on taking the Pill (or using any hormonal birth control) in and of itself. It is acceptable to use the Pill for any issue of a woman’s health as long as one isn’t taking it for the purpose of birth control. Many women take the pill for PCOS or endo or irregular cycles, excessive bleeding, and a variety of hormonal issues, not for birth control purposes. In this case the fact that it prevents ovulation is what as know as a “secondary effect” which is perfectly permissible under Church law. It was NOT against their religion to pay for what we commonly refer to as birthcontrol. Therefore the nuns were, in reality, saying that they wanted leave to assume that the people they employed were sinning, even if they were totally within Church teachings for the use of hormonal treatments.

    4. Obviously it is in your right to say that Biden doesn’t appear to be a very good Catholic. That is very different from saying he (or anyone else who happens to make a different moral valuation than you) is not a Catholic and should be refused communion.

    Nic (896fdf)

  694. And while you’re at it, can you tell me where the Popes kept the Virgin until 1950, and if there is any plan for all those poor sinners who ate meat on Fridays?

    nk (1d9030)

  695. Dave,

    I agree with most of your argument about campus sex abuse hearings. The prevalence of unjust outcomes is an unproven right wing article of faith, just as “believe all women” is on the Left. Obviously atrocious outcomes do occur, but knowing whether they’re ubiquitous or statistically rare requires analyzing the data, not leaping to bias-confirming conclusions which then lead to policy-making by anecdote.

    Also, as you explained, the hearings serve a valid purpose apart from what criminal prosecutions do, so “report it to the cops” is a tendentious red herring. And finally, these aren’t criminal proceedings — no state involvement, no potential for incarceration — so justice doesn’t necessarily require a “beyond a reasonable doubt” burden of proof.

    But that doesn’t mean “preponderance of the evidence” is the right standard. You (mistakenly IMO) frame the hearings as accuser vs accusee, ergo each should have the same burden of proof to prevail. But this isn’t an individual vs individual process. It’s college administration vs individual. Also, as others have pointed out, an expulsion for sexual assault carries potentially life-altering stigma. As it should. Now that may not be criminal punishment, just as the hearing isn’t a criminal prosecution, but in those ways it does bear more resemblance to a criminal proceeding than it does to a civil one.

    This is a subjective assessment, so obviously YMMV, but in my opinion a “clear and convincing evidence” standard is the appropriate level of safeguard against exposing accusees to an undue risk of biased or otherwise erroneous punishment.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  696. The election is over! Trump lost! He lost, lost, lost! Biden will replace him, whether anybody likes it or not, because the Constitution and Laws of the United States of America say so, and no other reason is necessary or sufficient! Period, end of discussion, stop wasting electrons!

    nk (1d9030)

  697. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    Hunter was there last night.

    https://www.nytimes.com/article/biden-speech-transcript.html
    … would not be here without the love and tireless support of Jill, Hunter, Ashley, all of our grandchildren and their spouses, and all our family….

    Does that include his grandson by Lunden Alexis Roberts? Enquiring minds want to know.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  698. Our Windy City barrister wrote:

    The Vatican should not wield power over the President of the United States, nor, for that matter, over any other person in government anywhere in the United States, its municipalities, counties, states, territories and possessions, or anywhere else in the world while in the service of the aforesaid United States, its municipalities, counties, states, territories and possessions, whether on, over, or under, air, land, sea, or outer space. Why don’t you just invite the Pope to move into the White House and replace Congress with the College of Cardinals?

    Our next [shudder!] President voluntarily associates with the Catholic Church; whether he chooses to listen to the Holy Father is his choice, not the Pope’s authority. What I am saying is that Mr Biden does not appear to be following the tenets of the religion he professes to hold.

    And actually, given what’s coming next, I would prefer the Pope — really, Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI — to move into the White House and replace Congress with the College of Cardinals. There would be some things with which I would disagree, such as the Church’s position on immigration, but, on the whole, the country would be better off.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e)

  699. God help us if both Joe and Kamala were to become devout followers of their respective professed religions. Involuntary celibacy is one thing as a couple of commenters here I’m sure could attest — they could channel their repressed energies into deriding women for the way they dress, for example — but involuntary vegetarianism would be just too much for most people.

    nk (1d9030)

  700. lol, lurker

    Dustin (4237e0)

  701. CBS has a movie – actually an episode – about a virus – except in this version it waa created in a laboratory (which nobody knows how to do) but in the United States.

    NCIS: New Orleans
    Something in the Air, Part I

    It’s running late on the East Coast.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  702. “I would prefer the Pope — really, Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI — to move into the White House and replace Congress with the College of Cardinals. There would be some things with which I would disagree, such as the Church’s position on immigration, but, on the whole, the country would be better off.”

    – The Dana in Kentucky

    I mean, the women and children would get shafted (albeit in different ways), but Christmas would be saved and taxes capped at ten percent. Gotta take the good with the bad, ya know?

    Leviticus (b5758b)

  703. The election is over! Trump lost! He lost, lost, lost! Biden will replace him and Harris will replace Biden in two years or less, whether anybody likes it or not, because the Constitution and Laws of the United States of America say so, and no other reason is necessary or sufficient! Period, end of discussion, stop wasting electrons!

    FIFY.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  704. List of prominent Republicans who have behaved with integrity in the wake of the election:

    Sen. Mitt Romney (R-UT)
    Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R-AK)
    Gov. Larry Hogan (R-MD)
    Gov. Phil Scott (R-VT)
    Rep. Will Hurd (R-TX)
    Rep. Francis Rooney (R-FL)
    Rep. Fred Upton (R-MI)
    Rep. Paul Mitchell (R-MI)

    Dubya
    Jeb!
    Kasich
    Christie
    Santorum

    Dave (1bb933)

  705. Profiles in courage:

    Three of the four GOP congressmen who have acknowledged the result of the election are retiring in January…

    Upton is the only one who ran for (and won) re-election last week.

    Dave (1bb933)

  706. Inside the mind of a Trump cultist.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/07/us/trump-supporters.html

    It’s disturbing, but there really are people that think like this. They worship the Trumps as a royal family and want them voted into office for perpetuity.

    It must be some latent craving of some citizens to live under a monarchy. Many colonists wanted to anoint Washington as king, but he declined and stepped down after two terms as president. In fact, his Farewell Address (co-written with Madison) was the most widely read publication in America, more than the Declaration and the Constitution, for over a century. It was required reading in schools.

    As was Emerson (Self Reliance), Thoreau (Walden), Whitman (Leaves of Grass), Twain (Huckleberry Finn), and others. These were the works that defined and expressed the American identity.

    What happened to that America, those United States?

    You know, when I was studying for my teaching certificate, I took a course on history and philosophy of education. It was a survey course, covering methodology and curricula from Plato’s academy to modern day. What struck me was the curriculum at the turn of the 20th century, late 1800s, early 1900s. An 8th grade education then would be a PhD program today.

    Grammar, logic, rhetoric, literature, essential skills, memorization, recitation, that was the curriculum then. It was still the curriculum when I went to school, and I got to tell you it was hard. I’m talking about daily spelling quizzes, weekly vocabulary tests, sentence diagramming assignments, required reading, it was torture. I had to do more homework for my English class than all my other courses combined.

    When I started teaching years later, I was shocked at how much the curriculum had degraded. I was told to not teach grammar. Oh, no, we teach whole language learning. WTF is that? I wrote lesson plans reflecting whole language learning to submit to the principal, but I taught my students grammar. And you know what? Three times as many of my students passed the state exam than the AP teacher across the hall.

    To respond to this thread, hey, I taught AP English in high school. I also taught freshman English at college in the evenings.

    At the high school, I followed the curriculum guide, wrote a lesson plan, checked out a video from the library, and showed my students a King Arthur movie.

    The next day I was called into the principal’s office and was accused of showing my students pornography. Pornography?! It was a King Arthur movie. Approved by the school board, checked out by countless teachers. But if I follow the guidelines and check the video out of the school library, I’m a pornographer? Once accused, always suspected.

    That’s the problem, right there. I resigned, but I was going to anyway because I needed to take care of my father and help my mother.

    I could have sued the district for a lot of money, but I just quietly resigned. There’s no point to a long drown-out legal arbitration. It is what it is.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1)

  707. From the end of the article GG linked:

    Mr. Rocco was not ready to give up, though. The president would not concede, he was sure of that. “I’d be pissed at him if he did because I would never do that,” he said. “He’s not that type of person. He doesn’t give up easily. I see a lot of myself in him.”

    Casting his mind into the future, past this election, he could imagine any number of outcomes.

    He could imagine the United States splitting into two countries, one governed by Mr. Trump and one not. He could imagine suspending elections so Mr. Trump and his family could rule without interruption for 20 years.

    “I guarantee you, Trump supporters would not care,” he said. “I guarantee you, if you got 69 million Trump supporters, and you said, ‘Would you be good with Donald Trump and Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump and Ivanka Trump as president?’ a lot of people would be 100 percent behind that.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  708. That’s what happens when you let in wretched refuse from teeming shores with no tradition or genuine concept of democracy and freedom, and let them propagate their kind generation after generation. Only the Greeks and the Swiss should be allowed permanent residence and a path to citizenship.

    nk (1d9030)

  709. Pfizer announced that their vaccine appears to be 90 percent effective and stocks are set to jump higher this morning. What might be the impact of that?

    Trump fans will scream that the announcement was delayed to hurt Trump, of course. But don’t they argue that the virus is like the flu and masks aren’t necessary? If it’s not a real threat, then why would a vaccine be such a big deal?

    Look ahead to when this vaccine is available and dispensed. How will the President and some of these governors look? Allowing COVID to spread. Discouraging masks and distancing only to see that a vaccine was imminent. So many illnesses and deaths that could have been prevented if they only would have acted responsibly for a few more months.

    Gov. Kristi Noem’s state has over a 50% positive rate with COVID numbers up by 20 times that of their July figures. And yet there she was on the Sunday show with George Stephanopoulos bragging about the job she’s doing. Justifying it by noting that New York had higher death rates in the spring when she knows that is a deceptive comparison. New York was hit blind with full force while she had ample warning and could have prevented it. She even claimed to have “done everything wrong, according to the experts” on Fox News a couple months ago. Who says sh!t like that?

    noel (9fead1)

  710. Sorry, the exact quote was….. “We did, in fact, we according to the national experts, did everything wrong,” Kristi Noem said on FoxNews July 17, 2020. Of course you did, Kristi.

    noel (9fead1)

  711. Gov. Kristi Noem’s state has over a 50% positive rate with COVID numbers up by 20 times that of their July figures.

    55,404 cases divided by 884,659 population equals 6.3%. Still nothing to sneeze at, though. Maybe now that Trump is gone, South Dakota will rejoin the Union.

    nk (1d9030)

  712. The positive rate is the fraction of tests that come back positive, not the fraction of the population infected.

    Dave (1bb933)

  713. “No miracle is coming.” – Joe Biden

    Pfizer announces their vaccine appears to be 90% effective; markets set to soar this morning.

    IDIOT.

    Memo to ‘Conservatives for Biden': you bought him; you own him.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  714. Pfizer announces their vaccine appears to be 90% effective; markets set to soar this morning.

    Too late for the Biden celebration superspreader events.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  715. Pfizer announced that their vaccine appears to be 90 percent effective and stocks are set to jump higher this morning. What might be the impact of that?

    Pfizer is quick to point out “we were never part of” Operation Warp Speed:

    “This is a historical moment,” Kathrin Jansen, a senior vice president and the head of vaccine research and development at Pfizer, said in an interview. “This was a devastating situation, a pandemic, and we have embarked on a path and a goal that nobody ever has achieved — to come up with a vaccine within a year.”

    […]

    Operation Warp Speed, the federal effort to rush a vaccine to market, has promised Pfizer $1.95 billion to deliver 100 million doses to the federal government, which will be given to Americans free of charge. But Dr. Jansen sought to distance the company from Operation Warp Speed and presidential politics, noting that the company — unlike the other vaccine front-runners — did not take any federal money to help pay for research and development.

    “We were never part of the Warp Speed,” she said. “We have never taken any money from the U.S. government, or from anyone.”

    Dave (1bb933)

  716. 725. No miracle is coming. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  717. Pfizer is quick to point out “we were never part of” Operation Warp Speed

    LOL

    What happened to the default “Under Trump’s Watch” mantra?

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  718. @726. So????? Pop a cork and celebrate, Davey: get lit!

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  719. What happened to the default “Under Trump’s Watch” mantra?

    Almost a quarter million Americans are still dead.

    Dave (1bb933)

  720. The vaccine comes a week too late for Trump, and ten weeks too early for Biden.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  721. Almost a quarter million Americans are still dead.

    Dave’s silver lining.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  722. President Donald Trump said that he was confident that there will be a coronavirus vaccine “by the end of the year” – May 3, 2020

    “Folks… No miracle is coming.” – Joe Biden, August 20, 2020

    IDIOT x 10 to the 23rd power.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  723. Memo to everyone —

    Coronavirus was not put on this earth to ruin Trump or make Biden look good. Vaccines were created to cure the virus, not to influence the f-ing election.

    Please keep this in mind. It will help.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  724. Capt Obvious hath speaketh.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  725. @735. You bought him; you own him.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  726. @608

    The damage was relentless and Biden is a better man than Trump.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 11/8/2020 @ 12:10 pm

    You’re going to be in rude awaking in the next 4 years Dustin.

    whembly (c30c83)

  727. #736

    I’m glad it’s obvious. Didn’t seem to be from the last bunch of comments.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  728. @739: It hasn’t seemed obvious since January. Suddenly it is. Thanks for that.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  729. Joe Biden warned at Thursday night’s presidential debate that the U.S. was “about to go into a dark winter.” – 10/22/2020

    Dark winter: Pfizer vaccine 90% effective; stock market soaring to new record on news.

    IDIOT.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  730. Boy Trump fans are having a bad day with this vaccine news. Gee whiz.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  731. Pfizer Agreement with the Government

    They may not have taken money for development but Pfizer was part of Warp Speed with agreement that the govt purchase 600k doses. This was an agreement under Operation Warp Speed. The fact that they didn’t take money for development doesn’t negate the reality of future profits through a Warp Speed contract.

    I read Biden’s Covid plan…… hmmmm looks just like Trumps except he will push masks. I’m sure just having Biden’s name attached to it will cure all. Just like super-spreader events of political exhilaration no longer are super spreaders due to….. Biden! Hey DCSCA I think I found that miracle.

    Marci (405d43)

  732. DCSCA–

    Who will be getting that vaccine between now and April?

    Winter still is pretty dark.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  733. Biden is a better man than Trump.

    No, Dustin.

    Biden is a liar and a thief. Trump is much better at it.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  734. @742

    Boy Trump fans are having a bad day with this vaccine news. Gee whiz.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:09 am

    It’s spin Dustin in favor of the incoming administration.

    The development of the vaccine got sped up in several ways, all due to Warp Speed.

    Pfizer execs are playing games to cozy up to the new administration, but the current admin was the one who shrunk the timeline to make THIS vaccine possible.

    whembly (c30c83)

  735. You’re going to be in rude awaking in the next 4 years Dustin.

    whembly (c30c83) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:03 am

    Nah. I don’t have this hysterical asshole version of Biden fear we see from partisan nuts, but I don’t like him. I don’t expect too much.

    Biden is a much much better man than Trump though. Katy Perry is a better man than Trump.

    I have never suggested Biden will be some miracle worker. Certainly nothing like Trump fanatics promised Trump would be. They will also never get their rude awakening. It will always be the fault of people who just love this country.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  736. 733. A quarter of a million Americans die every thirty days of all causes.

    Gryph (f63000)

  737. @744.DOOM! DOOM! DOOM!

    You bought him; you own him.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  738. 714. The transition will not occur until after the electoral college votes in December. Until then, nothing is official.

    Gryph (f63000)

  739. 730. beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/9/2020 @ 6:48 am

    The vaccine comes a week too late for Trump, and ten weeks too early for Biden.

    The vaccine is still the wrong solution. but it will be well on its way by the time Biden is inaugurated. But it won;t have any impact on new cases. But Trump will turn out to be right about it coming soon. Approval so soon was made possible by the upsurge in cases, because the FDA required that at least 5 people who took the placebo version of the vaccine come down with an extremely serious case of Covid (about 10% of those formally diagnosed do – not in the link here – that was in a NYT article) and there wasn’t a significant wnough number of cases before.

    The Trump White House fought the FDA on this, but lost, possibly due to Democratic Party interference. (the companies didn’t fight them, probably because of the Democrats and they also probably lobbied the FDA but I have any only vage claims about the public. Kamala Harris was publicly expresing skepticism about any vaccine that was hurried along by President Trump.)

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-takes-issue-with-fdas-plans-for-authorizing-a-covid-19-vaccine-11601663139

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/white-house-agrees-to-fdas-guidelines-for-vetting-covid-19-vaccines-11602011953

    For example, they required a vaccine to lower the rate of Covid-19 disease in study subjects by 50% or better compared with people in the trial who got a placebo.

    The guidelines required watching study subjects for two months after getting a shot, even though FDA officials told the White House that serious side effects tend to appear within six weeks of injection, the people familiar with the matter said. [in other words, an unnecessary further 2 week delay was imposed]

    Aside from taking issue with the waiting period, White House officials also complained that the FDA was presenting its plans too late for companies to adjust, since the pivotal studies for leading vaccine candidates could possibly provide key results by the end of this month, [October] the people said.

    But the FDA had already given the guidelines to companies and told them to expect their vaccines should meet the standards in order to secure authorization.

    Drugmakers have said they support efforts to make sure vaccines are cleared based on scientific evidence, not politics. Last week, Pfizer Inc. Chief Executive Albert Bourla sent a note to employees expressing support for a “a rigorous independent scientific evaluation and a robust independent approval process.”

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/after-rocky-start-fdas-hahn-wins-over-skeptics-11604581200

    With the FDA serving as gatekeeper for a Covid-19 vaccine, some Democrats and outside medical specialists questioned whether Dr. Hahn would put politics over science and rush a vaccine to market to boost Mr. Trump’s re-election chances.

    An answer came last month, when Dr. Hahn and his leadership team held fast to a rigorous vaccine-approval plan that was accepted by the White House after earlier objections, likely delaying any widespread distribution of the vaccine for weeks or months.

    What Reagan and Bush were falsely accused of in the late 1980s and what Nixon in 1968 barely took steps to do – deliberately delaying something – the Democrats actually did in this election.

    The reason the vaccine is coming so soon now is that the increased number of cases advanced the timetable again.

    Meanwhile, I’m waiting for the antibiotic treatment, which can also be used, in much smaller doses as a preventative. That also should be before January 20.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  740. Whembly, how is it spin in favor of Biden that there is a vaccine?

    It is just good news. I’m sorry it upsets you and that you need to see Trump as a victim.

    To folks like me who do not care much for Biden and just wanted Trump gone, good news is good news. To those who are mad mad mad, they think they are drinking poison, hoping the country dies for betraying Dear Leader.

    Sick souls.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  741. @735

    Memo to everyone —

    Coronavirus was not put on this earth to ruin Trump or make Biden look good. Vaccines were created to cure the virus, not to influence the f-ing election.

    Please keep this in mind. It will help.

    Appalled (1a17de) — 11/9/2020 @ 6:57 am

    See this:
    https://twitter.com/JimDeMint/status/1325815190038966276

    @JimDeMint
    Wait, the vaccine was known to be successful weeks ago?? Fauci, Biden, media mocked Trump at this time for saying vaccine was close. The Oct announcement just happened to be delayed AFTER the election? We need answers from corporate & government officials. https://statnews.com/2020/11/09/covid-19-vaccine-from-pfizer-and-biontech-is-strongly-effective-early-data-from-large-trial-indicate/

    What says you?

    whembly (c30c83)

  742. @752 I *is* unambiguously good news.

    But, don’t ignore the spin and the politicization of this.

    whembly (c30c83)

  743. 750. Gryph (f63000) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:15 am

    . The transition will not occur until after the electoral college votes in December. Until then, nothing is official.

    It’s not official until Congress counts the Electoral votes.

    But, since about 1976-7 there’s been an official transition budget and office accomodations in Washington D.C., based upon the GSA declaring an apparent winner. (because in most cases, we really know long before)

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  744. In claiming to be Catholic, the esteemed Mr Biden is calling a tail a leg.

    Has Joe been ex-communicated? There may be a parish or three that denied Biden communion, but their opinions don’t represent the position of the church, no?

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  745. o.O

    Guys, look at the Dow.

    O.o

    whembly (c30c83)

  746. @743. LOLOLOLOL Dontcha just love a guy whose response to a rolling crisis is to form a committee to write a report to propose recommendations to develop a plan.

    Albert Speer had a lot of plan w/his name on them, too. But he was just an architect.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  747. You bought him; you own him.

    DCSCA

    Biden is your doing. Trump fans who simply don’t care that much, because they wanted to break things (a fair summary of your support) forced the rest of us to choose a moderate Democrat. If your side had made any effort to accomplish something, to work with others, instead of endless laughing that were frustrated with Trump’s behavior and harmful performance, maybe you guys wouldn’t have lost.

    Irs6 not America’s fault for rejecting a loser.

    Lol. Better days ahead man! Vaccine and success. Biden didn’t do it. But I think getting rid of Trump will prove extremely good for you.

    Remember, Biden was not really on the ballot. He was in the basement. He barely said an interesting thing in the debates. He had nothing to do with the election. The election was whether we keep a racist, corrupt, stupid pawn of Russia. Yes or no. We said no.

    That socialists and Trump fanatics were both repudiated says more about the future than Trump fans can. Really they were heard and they lost. Bush 43 explained.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  748. @757. Dow rocketing toward 30,000.

    It’s… a miracle. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  749. 746. whembly (c30c83) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:13 am

    The development of the vaccine got sped up in several ways, all due to Warp Speed.

    And then it got slowed down by the Democrats (who charged political interference by the Trump Administration, because naturally only efforts to speed things up were politically motivated.)

    September 10:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/fda-officials-say-vaccine-decisions-will-be-guided-by-science-not-politics-11599762805

    Senior Food and Drug Administration officials, bristling at criticism from some Democrats and medical leaders that the agency has been politicized by the Trump administration, took the unusual step Thursday of publicly declaring that science, not politics, will guide their decisions on Covid-19 vaccines.

    This created a bias in favor of delay.

    It got sped up again by the spike in cases, which made it easier to prove a vaccine worked. If Covid had been wiped out, it would never have been possible to prove a vaccine worked. The acid test was: was there a difference between people who got the vaccine and people who got the placebo.

    Did more people who got the placebo get extremely sick, and, yes, that also means, die?

    Pfizer execs are playing games to cozy up to the new administration,

    They were trying not to go agaisnst the Democrats during the election.

    But sgain a vaccine is the wrong goal, during an epidemic. A vaccine is mostly for beforee an epidemic.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  750. Sorry for typos. New phone.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  751. @759. No, Dustin.

    You bought him; you own him. =mike-drop=

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  752. #753

    Here are the key bits in Mr. DeMint’s link:

    Gruber said that Pfizer and BioNTech had decided in late October that they wanted to drop the 32-case interim analysis. At that time, the companies decided to stop having their lab confirm cases of Covid-19 in the study, instead leaving samples in storage. The FDA was aware of this decision. Discussions between the agency and the companies concluded, and testing began this past Wednesday. When the samples were tested, there were 94 cases of Covid in the trial. The DSMB met on Sunday.

    This means that the statistical strength of the result is likely far stronger than was initially expected. It also means that if Pfizer had held to the original plan, the data would likely have been available in October, as its CEO, Albert Bourla, had initially predicted.

    Pfizer appears to have made a decision that delayed the announcement into November. You assume it’s political. My guess is that this was taken to speed approval.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  753. 760. DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:28 am

    @757. Dow rocketing toward 30,000.

    It’s… a miracle.

    No major changes expected to the 2017 tax law.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  754. Look at that Dow soar!

    ‘Go, baby, go!’ – Walter Cronkite

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  755. Your state, Gryph, had 22 deaths in one day this week. A state with a population of only 850,000. Wow.

    Your governor was on TV the other day claiming that her 20 times increase in COVID cases was due to… wait for it… a tripling in testing. (In reality, it has only doubled since summer.) It’s clear that Kristi Noem is contending for the ignorance wing of the Republican Party.

    She is running for President with an assist from Corey Lewandowski. And Corey will have her prepared with all of the demagogic arguments necessary to defy reality. I consider her the frontrunner.

    noel (9fead1)

  756. Biden is a liar and a thief. Trump is much better at it.

    DCSCA

    Trump is the past. He’s like JR. Your admiration of his skill at lying defies reality. He is the past because we rejected him. That he’s crying that Biden stole the election is a pretty serious problem, but ultimately it’s just crying.

    Trump’s lies included unkept promises. He simply wasn’t up to the job. I’m not even a little concerned that Biden will be unable to do much. We can reject him in a few years. Maybe he does a great job and is in good health. I don’t predict that but I’m not rooting against my country, angry if there’s good news.

    Trump can keep lying and fighting most of the country. We never actually wanted him to be president. We never will.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  757. And then it got slowed down by the Democrats (who charged political interference by the Trump Administration, because naturally only efforts to speed things up were politically motivated.)

    Democrats had no power slow Trump down, Trump did that himself.
    I don’t see a lot of difference between the Trump and Biden plans for containing the virus, except for one major thing: Trump never took the virus seriously, and Biden did and does.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  758. Appalled (1a17de) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:30 am

    Pfizer appears to have made a decision that delayed the announcement into November. You assume it’s political. My guess is that this was taken to speed approval.

    Because the Democrats were putting pressure om the FDa and threatening to stat amovement not to accept the vaccine.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/sep/05/kamala-harris-covid-vaccine-safety-trump-election

    In an interview with CNN – excerpts of which were released on Saturday – the Democratic vice-presidential nominee warned of the potential for political interference by the US president over the approval of a coronavirus vaccine in order to boost his re-election chances.

    Asked if she would personally take any vaccine given the green light in the US before the November poll, Harris replied: “I will say that I would not trust Donald Trump and it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he’s talking about. I will not take his word for it.” [Of course, it wouldn’t have been Trump’s word alone. Note she;s restng her case not on safety, but efficacy and consistent value]

    There have been widespread reports of pressure being put on administration health officials to accelerate the development and approval of a vaccine that could halt or blunt the impact of a pandemic that has cost more than 185,000 lives in America and wreaked havoc on the economy not seen since the Great Depression.

    Harris said she expected that medical experts would not be allowed to make decisions on a vaccine without interference from above. [But interference from the opposition party NOT to aprove a vaccine is OK]

    “They’ll be muzzled, they’ll be suppressed, they will be sidelined,” Harris told CNN. “Because he’s looking at an election coming up in less than 60 days and he’s grasping to get whatever he can to pretend he has been a leader on this issue when he is not.”

    Concerns over potential politicization of a Covid-19 treatment and vaccine began in the spring, when Trump touted anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine despite weak evidence that the drug was effective against the virus.

    The Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the federal agency in charge of approving vaccines and treatments for public use, carried out an emergency use authorization (EUA) order to allow the use of the drug without the testing and trials that are usually accompanied with a drug rollout.

    The EUA for hydroxychloroquine was revoked in June, with the FDA saying the drug has not proven effective against Covid-19 and can have severe side effects. {despite a false study being pretracted]

    In late August, Trump announced another EUA for convalescent plasma, a type of therapy where blood plasma from a recovered Covid-19 patient who has developed antibodies is given to a patient fighting the illness.

    While one study conducted on the therapy suggested that the treatment could be helpful, public health experts, including Dr Anthony Fauci, the nation’s top infectious disease expert, said that there needs to be larger, randomized trials in order to ensure the efficacy of the treatment.

    Earlier this week, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) asked states to expedite approval for vaccine distribution sites by 1 November. Stephen Hahn, the head of the FDA, indicated that he would be willing to authorize a vaccine before phase three trials were complete – a controversial move that has been taken by China and Russia. Hahn insisted he would not expedite a vaccine to appease the president.

    Moncef Slaoui, the co-chief of the White House initiative to release a vaccine, said that it was possible but unlikely that a vaccine would be ready by 1 November. “There is a very, very low chance that the trials that are running as we speak could [be completed] by the end of October,” Slaoui told NPR.

    For weeks, Trump has been claiming that a vaccine is right on America’s doorstep, an optimism that is not shared by public health experts. Trump told a cheering crowd at the Republican national convention last week that “we will have a safe and effective vaccine by the end of the year”.

    It looks like he was right.

    The Trump administration has dismissed accusations that its claims of confidence in a vaccine in the next few months are a way to boost Trump for election day on 3 November.

    “I think it’s very irresponsible how people are trying to politicize notions of delivering a vaccine to the American people,” Alex Azar, the health and human services department secretary, told CBS on Thursday.

    Trump himself has denied that any motivation to get a vaccine out around election day has anything to do with the election itself. “I’m optimistic that it will be around that date … It wouldn’t hurt,” he said. “I’m not doing it for the election. I want it fast because I want to save a lot of lives.”

    Well, really because of the election. But the politics works both ways, and in Trump’s case, the incentives were right, because he couldn’t push through anything that was bad.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  759. The problem with Trump’s crying is that many millions take it as gospel. It’s not run of the mill narcisstic whining. If he says the election was stolen, then it was stolen. Gospel.

    JRH (52aed3)

  760. 755. In most cases, we do. But then you have elections like 2000 and 2020 that remind me that it’s foolish to put the cart before the horse no matter how certain you think you are.

    Gryph (f63000)

  761. Many brokerage web sites are melting down today. Schwab is unable to display order status. Earlier it was unable to validate logins.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  762. 769. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:40 am

    I don’t see a lot of difference between the Trump and Biden plans for containing the virus, except for one major thing: Trump never took the virus seriously, and Biden did and does.

    I went through this @679. The major differences are that Biden would try ineffective things and defer completely to the people who have a related resume.

    And he is even more focused on a vaccine than Trump, when a vaccine is the wrong thing to look for to fight an ongoing epidemic.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  763. Trump is the past.

    No, Dustin: ideological conservatism is. You’re whistling past the graveyard– nearly 71 million Americans voted for him– more ths tme than in 2016– and what he represents.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  764. 772. In 2000 the transition thing didn’t start until after December 12 – after Gore conceded.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  765. @773. No miracle is coming. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  766. Looking at the Dow it’s obvious Trump leaving has as much effect as him being there. Who needs you Donnie?

    Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313)

  767. Looking at the Dow it’s obvious Trump leaving has as much effect as him being there.

    He’s still there. Dow up 11,000 since he was elected. But, keep spinning.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  768. I went through this @679. The major differences are that Biden would try ineffective things and defer completely to the people who have a related resume.

    I read your comment and, except for noting that the Biden doesn’t include therapeutics, I disagree with most of it.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  769. If you would have told me a year ago that Donald Trump would claim that the election was going to be rigged and suggest that we move the date of the election… and that he would deny that he lost and would refuse to attend the inaugural of the victor, I would have… yawned.

    Who could possibly have expected anything different?

    noel (9fead1)

  770. The vaccine comes a week too late for Trump, and ten weeks too early for Biden.

    It’s not hard to be cynical about this. Trump will, probably rightly, claim that this news was delayed to avoid helping him in the election. As it turned out nearly ANY help would have secured a victory for him.

    Maybe Trump shouldn’t have been so hard on the drug companies, eh?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  771. noel (9fead1) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:35 am

    It’s clear that Kristi Noem is contending for the ignorance wing of the Republican Party.

    Yes. There;s things wrong with the conventional wisdom but not that. Cases really are gong up. Even if you can;t figure out why. Even if the usual recommendations to stop the spread of the disease have irrational distinctions and are not evidence based – or even good educated guesses or very logical all told

    She is running for President with an assist from Corey Lewandowski.

    Corey Lwewansdowski on Sunday, November 1, was still talking about ventilators!

    https://www.foxnews.com/transcript/biden-is-leading-in-minnesota-many-states-in-the-midwest-amy-klobuchar

    …You look at what this president has been able to do. Any person who has been impacted by this disease who needed a ventilator, this administration provided it. ,,,

    Ventilators were close to a death sentence!

    They were far overused and used in the wrong way.

    They are not used so much any more

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/30/nyregion/new-york-city-coronavirus-hospitals.html

    Dr. Katz listed a range of improvements that had helped patients at public hospitals, including a better understanding of when to put someone on a ventilator and improved use of blood thinners. Doctors have also seen the importance of turning Covid-19 patients onto their stomachs, a technique known as proning that helps distribute oxygen throughout the lungs.

    For example, in the earliest days of the pandemic, hospitals in New York City tended to intubate patients early. Now, if possible, they avoid intubation, in which a mechanical ventilator breathes for a patient who is deeply sedated. Instead, doctors first attempt to give patients oxygen by less invasive means.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  772. The last Jeopardy show Alex Trebek taped will be see on December 25.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  773. “You bought him; you own him.”

    I didn’t vote for Biden…..wrote in a decent Republican instead….but I do understand people who wanted to exorcise Trump from the process. “Owning Trump” was precisely my reason for not voting for him in 2016….and with even fewer constraints on a second term and with more 3rd-rate yes-men as advisors, it seemed even more relevant in 2020. He didn’t meet my minimum threshold for being qualified in terms of knowledge, temperament, or discipline.

    With the GOP likely retaining control of the Senate and shrinking the DEMs majority in the House, Biden will be pressed to do much sustained damage. Yes, regulatory agency mandates, executive orders, left-wing appointments, and maybe some leading “from behind” will happen….but all are reversible in 4 years….and might move us back to actually talking rationally about policy in this country…instead of the cult of personality stuff and the too often manufactured drama via Tweet and pep rally. Some will continue to want to talk about Biden’s age, brain surgeries, plagiarism, and maybe his hair plugs….and Harris backing into the Presidency…but in the end, it’s still a small step in the direction of normalcy and the GOP re-discovering its conservative voice. Sometimes defense is the best offense….

    AJ_Liberty (ec7f74)

  774. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/9/2020 @ 8:05 am

    As it turned out nearly ANY help would have secured a victory for him.

    I don;t think so actually.

    It would have had to matter and Biden would have to quite clearly be wrong about that.

    It would have had to swing approximately 1% of the vote – maybe closer to 2% or 3% of the Election Day vote.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  775. Ventilators were close to a death sentence!

    4 out of 5, but it is better than 5 out of 5 without, if you actually need one.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  776. Positioning for 2024. I love the way Ted Cruz, Lindsay Graham and Kristi Noem are dancing on Trump’s political grave while pretending to be his biggest defenders. Clever.

    noel (9fead1)

  777. Well half a percent, if he’s 1% behind in key states.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  778. If you’re incensed that the election was stolen from Trump and you want to contribute to his legal challenge, just know that only half or less of your money is going that effort.

    Clicking through to the donation page, potential givers can review a disclaimer that 50% of any contribution will be used for general election campaign debt retirement and 50% for the campaign’s recount account.

    Other Trump fundraising pitches in recent days ask for help to “protect the integrity of this election” but lead to a donation page for Mr. Trump’s “Make America Great Again” committee. The fine print on those solicitations says 60% of a contribution helps the campaign retire debt and 40% goes to the Republican National Committee.

    It’s all lies until proven otherwise. Trump’s fund-raising operation is signaling that they know he’s a one-term loser.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  779. And to be fair and balanced, from the WSJ link…

    Mr. Biden also is seeking new money for legal battles.

    His legal fund solicitations don’t include language about debt retirement. But the first $142,000 of any contribution is earmarked for the Democratic National Committee, and the next $2,800 goes to Mr. Biden’s recount account, according to the fine print.

    The Biden campaign did not respond to a request for comment.

    The national party committees — the RNC and DNC — often play a prominent role in financing election legal proceedings.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  780. Trump’s fund-raising operation is signaling that they know he’s a one-term loser.

    Also signaling that there’s no con too obvious for his supporters to fall for.

    Dave (1bb933)

  781. Mr Finkelman wrote:

    But, since about 1976-7 there’s been an official transition budget and office accomodations in Washington D.C., based upon the GSA declaring an apparent winner. (because in most cases, we really know long before)

    Remember: back in 2000, President Clinton did not allow George W Bush’s team access to the transition effort until the Supreme Court finally bitchslapped Al Gore’s legal efforts to steal the election.

    The Dana in Kentucky (facd7c)

  782. Also signaling that there’s no con too obvious for his supporters to fall for.

    Dave (1bb933) — 11/9/2020 @ 8:26 am

    There’s a post up at Ace of Spades where they try way too hard to convince readers Trump is going to win, he’s got this, if readers don’t betray him, and they need to go ahead and give him more money. It’s sad because they are using distrust of our democracy to earn more money. Putin’s getting his money’s worth.

    Positioning for 2024. I love the way Ted Cruz, Lindsay Graham and Kristi Noem are dancing on Trump’s political grave while pretending to be his biggest defenders. Clever.

    noel (9fead1) — 11/9/2020 @ 8:12 am

    Well you can’t trust ’em. But Lindsey Graham is no president. Ted Cruz is dishonest and smart, a good combination for success in DC, but I’ve only grown more tired of him this past week.

    Mitt Romney would get much more support than Trump fans realize. They wouldn’t support him, sure, but they aren’t a majority of the party, as 2016’s very long primary showed us. a lot of Trump is about how inevitable he is, overstating his support (for example, they sure trust polls about Team R support of Trump).

    Give it a couple years.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  783. He’s still there. Dow up 11,000 since he was elected. But, keep spinning.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:59 am

    You’re projecting. The stock market going up when it’s clear Trump is leaving is hilarious. Your theory that this is Trump’s next success is also hilarious. That anything real and plain is “spin”… also hilarious. This fake news double plus ungood thing you guys have been doing, it’s a neat trick for keeping supporters mad.

    I don’t think you should worry. Biden’s probably going to screw up, if that’s what you want. Trump was always a gift to the democrats. Biden would have no shot at winning against Ted Cruz for example. Just imagine those debates for a second. But the vaccine will have some problems, the economy is damaged regardless of a vaccine, and our enemies have to be looking at the next couple of months as a once in a lifetime opportunity. Biden will start office with a lot of challenges even a truly great leader would have no idea how to solve.

    I hope Kevin’s thoughts (not predictions) come through and Biden defies his party, is sworn in by Coney, opens up with deals on immigration and healthcare that upset the fringe but work for the rest of us. He has shown no sign of that, in my opinion, but the opportunity to be remembered as a great man is certainly right there. It was right there for Trump too, you know.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  784. Dr. Bourla, on why Pfizer didn’t join Operation Warp Speed…

    MARGARET BRENNAN: There are six US pharmaceutical companies that have taken money from U.S. taxpayers as part of this investment to- to jump start a vaccine. Your company chose not to take that taxpayer money as part of your research, which means if you fail, that comes at a loss to Pfizer and your own pocketbook. So why do you think that’s worth the risk? And what is it actually buy you? How much faster do things work?
    DR. BOURLA: You’re right, if it fails, it goes to our pocket. And at the end of the day, it’s only money. That will not break the company, although it is going to be painful because we are investing one billion and a half at least in COVID right now. But the reason why I did it was because I wanted to liberate our scientists from any bureaucracy. When you get money from someone that always comes with strings. They want to see how we are going to progress, what type of moves you are going to do. They want reports. I didn’t want to have any of that. I wanted them- basically I gave them an open checkbook so that they can worry only about scientific challenges, not anything else. And also, I wanted to keep Pfizer out of politics, by the way.

    This was last September 13th. Smart move, a private company choosing not to get further entangled with government bureaucracy, and credit to Dr. Bourla for his foresight.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  785. The problem with Trump’s crying is that many millions take it as gospel.

    I see Trump’s crying, and his fanbois’ too, as worms wriggling on fish hooks and take a shameful pleasure in it, and I did not even know that I was a sadist. Wriggle, little orange worms, wriggle on that hook for me!

    nk (1d9030)

  786. Excellent quote, Paul.

    And apparently that works. Trump’s (and of course Biden’s) approach ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help’ probably screws most things up. And Trump has no credibility on COVID. If he said ‘this vaccine will save you’ no one would believe it at this point. We all know that if there was some terrible problem, Trump would pressure the drug maker to cover it up.

    This is why Trump’s claim on conservatism was always BS. Just getting out of the way is more effective at plenty of things. Just ask my wife.

    Also: https://streamable.com/ftnzh6 Good for a laugh.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  787. Also: https://streamable.com/ftnzh6 Good for a laugh.

    Christian evangelical churches is going to suffer for so overtly supporting this con man president. Sigh.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  788. I should just apologize in advance for leaving out words and the grammar typos. Gah!

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  789. AJ_Liberty,

    Your comment at 785 is spot-on.

    norcal (a5428a)

  790. I guess it all depends on whose ox is gored. :)

    OK, OK, I denounce myself for that pun.

    The Dana in Kentucky (45337e) — 11/8/2020 @ 4:11 pm

    Made me laugh. My kind of humor. Thank you.

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  791. @635 Obviously if abortion is the most important issue for you, you aren’t going to vote for anyone who is pro-choice and you should vote your values, but this, “abortion on demand up to and after delivery” also isn’t a thing that happens. There is no abortion after deliver and abortions in the 3rd trimester are due to something going very wrong in a wanted pregnancy.

    Nic (896fdf) — 11/8/2020 @ 1:40 pm

    That’s a strawman argument.

    For me what the election was about and what the 2016 election was about is what each party stands for. My beliefs tell me that abortion on demand up to and after delivery is murder and abhorrent. I cannot get past that issue. I can’t and refuse to vote for the person who is pro abortion.

    My statement encompasses all abortion which I believe is abhorrent. Embryologists tell us that babies are human at conception. The pre-born baby has personhood. So I will ask this question. What crime did the baby commit that deserves the death penalty?

    Tanny O'Haley (8a06bc)

  792. If he said ‘this vaccine will save you’ no one would believe it at this point.

    No one should believe it. But would? I suspect the considerable cohort of Trumpists who are still hyping hydroxychloroquine would indeed believe it.

    lurker (d8c5bc)

  793. 788. noel (9fead1) — 11/9/2020 @ 8:12 am

    Positioning for 2024. I love the way Ted Cruz, Lindsay[sic] Graham and Kristi Noem are dancing on Trump’s political grave while pretending to be his biggest defenders. Clever.

    Lindsey Graham is telling Trump to run in 2024.

    It’d s clever way to help make it easier for him to concede – when he’s ready.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/525120-graham-trump-should-consider-running-again-in-2024-if-he-loses

    … Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said on Monday that President Trump should consider another run in 2024 if he loses his legal battles over the 2020 White House race.

    Graham — during an interview with Fox News Radio’s “The Brian Kilmeade Show” — did not acknowledge that Trump lost this year’s election and instead said that if the president “falls short” he should “not let his movement die” and should “consider running again.”

    “I would encourage him to think about doing it,” Graham said, saying Trump should “create an organization, platforms over the next four years to keep his movement alive.”

    “Grover Cleveland came back. Donald Trump should think about it if he falls short,” Graham added, referring to the only president to serve two non-consecutive terms.

    I saw some video om Inside Edition and I think Lindsey Graham said he personally spoke to Donald Trump to the same effect.

    Mitch McConnell has said, I think on the Senate floor, that Trump is “within his rights” (which is actually not the same thing as an endorsement.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  794. 796. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 11/9/2020 @ 8:43 am

    This was last September 13th. Smart move, a private company choosing not to get further entangled with government bureaucracy, and credit to Dr. Bourla for his foresight.

    Theyy have to get entangled anyway, because they need goverment approval. but this way the government can’t say they paid for the research and demand a lower price.

    https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20151029.051488/full

    …US law governing prescription pharmaceutical markets abandons that principle and gives every new drug a long-term monopoly that prohibits competition….

    ,,,,Federal law prohibits the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) from approving a copy of a new drug for a period of seven to 12 years even if there are no patents. The FDA is also prohibited from approving a generic drug anytime a claim of patent infringement is alleged – a policy that has encouraged many frivolous patent claims just to delay competition. Drug patents also get extensions of up to five years and then an additional six-month extension for conducting studies of the new drug’s suitability for use in children. Collectively, all of these special monopolies prevent competition and keep prices high.

    But if the government sponsored the research some of that might not apply. Maybe it wouldn’t give the government a legal advantage, but it would give politicians an argument. And that could be the reason Pfizer didn’t take a penny.

    https://www.healthaffairs.org/do/10.1377/hblog20160728.055969/full

    In a May article in Health Affairs, we proposed that the federal government consider using an existing law to negotiate or compel lower drug prices in the United States for certain important drugs with excessive prices…

    https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2015.1120

    … a little-known law, codified at 28 U.S.C. section 1498, could allow the federal government to substantially lower prices for high-cost drugs. 9 This law gives the government the right to use patented inventions without permission, while paying the patent holder “reasonable and entire compensation.” In the case of pharmaceuticals, a patent gives a company the right to prevent others from making, selling, using, or importing a covered medicine. The “government use” provision is a form of governmental immunity from patent claims: Under it, patent holders can demand royalties but cannot stop the government from producing the medicine or allowing others (in this case, generic manufacturers) to produce or import the medicine. There have been prominent calls for the Department of Veterans Affairs to invoke its powers under section 1498 to address the funding shortfall that has resulted from the high demand for, and high cost of, direct-acting antivirals, despite the significant discounts that the department already enjoys. 10

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  795. 804. lurker (d8c5bc) — 11/9/2020 @ 4:06 pm

    I suspect the considerable cohort of Trumpists who are still hyping hydroxychloroquine would indeed believe it.

    There would be a considerable correlation with political opinion, but I think the anti-vaxxers trend Republican.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  796. Re; Transition.

    The FBI is going ahead with investigations for security clearances )and plain Senate conformations) for people Biden is considering. But his people they say are not getting classified briefings (at least no more than happened during the campaign I suppose, since the candidate gets briefed) and they complain that they don’t know what they can say to foreign leaders. (which I don’t understand since if someone hasn’t been told any classified information, they can’t give it away. Of course maybe this involves leaks and what learned while Obama pr someone else was president.)

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  797. 751.

    Meanwhile, I’m waiting for the antibiotic treatment, which can also be used, in much smaller doses as a preventative. That also should be before January 20.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43) — 11/9/2020 @ 7:16 am

    Here it is, but Regeneron isn’t first:

    https://www.nydailynews.com/coronavirus/ny-coronavirus-fda-authorizes-emergency-use-covid-antibody-treatment-20201110-o2wmxjp6qvhhjfwpefi6e2fylu-story.html

    FDA gives emergency-use authorization to Eli Lilly’s experimental antibody treatment for COVID-19

    By THERESA BRAINE

    NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
    NOV 09, 2020 AT 8:14 PM

    …The drug, bamlanivimab, is made by Eli Lilly and Co., which had requested the authorization. The FDA authorized it purely for patients testing positive, who are age 12 and up, “who are at high risk for progressing to severe COVID-19 and/or hospitalization,” including those age 65 and older or people with chronic medical conditions, the federal agency said in a statement.

    While the therapy is still being tested, a similar treatment was also given to President Trump after he came down with COVID-19 last month, The Associated Press reported….

    ….It won’t be given to patients who are already in the hospital or on oxygen because the drug has not been shown to benefit people in that situation, the FDA said – and may in fact “be associated with worse clinical outcomes when administered to hospitalized patients with COVID-19 requiring high flow oxygen or mechanical ventilation.” [?]

    It would also be useful as a prophylactic but just hasn’t been tested that way.

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  798. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/09/health/trump-regeneron-antibodies.html

    Trump’s Testimonial Is a Double-Edged Sword for Regeneron

    ….When President Trump promoted an experimental drug as a “cure” for Covid-19 in a video on Wednesday, it might have seemed that he was at it again: touting a questionable fix for a deadly pandemic, not unlike his earlier enthusiasm for the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine or even, at one point, disinfectant.

    But the treatment that Mr. Trump extolled, which was administered last week after doctors diagnosed Covid-19, is not a fringe product. It’s a promising drug in the final stages of testing developed by a respected biotech company, Regeneron. Infectious disease experts have been closely following the treatment, as well as a similar product from Eli Lilly, in the hopes that the therapies could be a real advance in the fight against Covid-19.

    Pharmaceutical companies often pay handsomely for celebrity endorsements, but this patient testimonial was like no other….

    Sammy Finkelman (3fda43)

  799. Epoch Times ad claims that China has now 21 million fewer cellphone users (than when?)

    I don’t think that means they died. Could be more censorship. ould be companies are in trouble. Could tbey raised prices/

    Sammy Finkelman (00fff5)


Powered by WordPress.

Page loaded in: 1.8009 secs.