Trump Declares Victory; Says Will Ask Supreme Court to Make Voting Stop (Huh?)
The Failing New York Times says things still look positive for Biden:
Even though victory remained far from certain on Wednesday morning, those states began to come to life for him, one by one, like lights flickering back on under the power of a backup generator. By around 9:10 a.m. Eastern time, Mr. Biden was leading in enough states that, if he won them, would give him 270 electoral votes.
I can’t say I’m optimistic. I can easily see the generator sputtering and dying. It might have something to do with the experts having assured us that Biden was crushing Trump nationwide by ten points or so.
Meanwhile, Trump gonna be Trump:
With no winner declared in the 2020 presidential race, President Trump appeared in the White House just after 2 a.m. on Wednesday to brazenly claim he had already won the election — and to insist that votes stop being counted even though the ballots of millions of Americans had yet to be tallied.
Speaking with a mix of defiance, anger and wonder that the election had not yet been called in his favor, the president recounted his standing in an array of battleground states before falsely declaring: “Frankly, we did win this election.”
No news organizations declared a winner between Mr. Trump and Joseph R. Biden Jr., and a number of closely contested states still had millions of mail-in ballots to count, in part because state and local Republican officials had insisted that they not be counted until Election Day.
Mr. Trump said, without offering any explanation, that “we’ll be going to the U.S. Supreme Court,” and added: “We want all voting to stop.”
Um, OK.
Meanwhile, it looks like I will have a new boss. So: the nation has failed to repudiate Trump, but my county repudiated the best choice for District Attorney.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change . . .
Happy Wednesday!
P.S. If Biden pulls this off, it may mean that only one of my predictions will come true: that “in coming days and weeks, there will be a test of loyalty: are you willing to loudly declare that Donald Trump was defrauded out of the presidency?”
I’m seeing hints of it already.
Even if Biden wins, the nation’s failure to soundly repudiate Trump is a disappointment.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/4/2020 @ 7:02 amBut people vote for their own reasons . . .
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/4/2020 @ 7:03 amI, too, was hoping for a resounding rejection of the Trumpian cancer and the apostate GOP, but it appears that if Biden does win, it will be narrowly. If that turns out to be the case, at least we can enjoy watching Trump embarrass himself with tantrums and threats.
Roger (83ed7d) — 11/4/2020 @ 7:08 amP.S. If Biden pulls this off, it may mean that only one of my predictions will come true: that “in coming days and weeks, there will be a test of loyalty: are you willing to loudly declare that Donald Trump was defrauded out of the presidency?”
I’m seeing hints of it already.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/4/2020 @ 7:10 amThis is what Trump said last night — as usual, with all the syntax mangling, it’s not easy to translate it:
We won states. And all of a sudden I said, “What happened to the election? It’s off.” And we have all these announcers saying what happened? And then they said, “Oh.”
Because you know what happened? They knew they couldn’t win so they said, “Let’s go to court.” And did I predict this, Newt? Did I say this? I’ve been saying this from the day I heard they were going to send out tens of millions of ballots. They said exactly, because either they were going to win or if they didn’t win, they’ll take us to court. So Florida was a tremendous victory. 377,000 votes. Texas, as we said. Ohio, think of this. Ohio a tremendous state, a big state. I love Ohio. We won by 8.1%, 460,00…think of this. Almost 500,000 votes. North Carolina, a big victory with North Carolina. So we won there. We lead by 76,000 votes with almost nothing left. And all of a sudden everything just stopped.
This is a fraud on the American public. This is an embarrassment to our country. We were getting ready to win this election. Frankly, we did win this election. We did win this election. So our goal now is to ensure the integrity for the good of this nation. This is a very big moment. This is a major fraud in our nation. We want the law to be used in a proper manner. So we’ll be going to the US Supreme Court. We want all voting to stop. We don’t want them to find any ballots at four o’clock in the morning and add them to the list. Okay? It’s a very sad moment. To me this is a very sad moment and we will win this. And as far as I’m concerned, we already have won it.
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-2020-election-night-speech-transcript
Appalled (1a17de) — 11/4/2020 @ 7:16 amWorth posting twice:
The only fraud will come from Trump’s corrupt criminal gangsters. How many of them, from his last campaign, went to prison? Half a dozen? More?
nk (1d9030) — 11/4/2020 @ 7:21 amBuck Sexton
@BuckSexton
·
Notice how all the ballot counting shenanigans are happening in Democrat strongholds, in states Democrats were behind in last night and desperately need to win
You’re going to hear a lot of “wow! we just found 5,000 more Biden votes in this dumpster” over the next 48 hours
__ _
John Hayward
@Doc_0
·
Trump did incredibly well with many surprising demographics, while Biden really cleaned up with the little-discussed but all-important Mystery Votes After Midnight demographic.
__
Hey it worked for Al Franken.
harkin (7fb4c9) — 11/4/2020 @ 7:32 am_
Well, Trump had to tell thousands and thousands of lies to get to where he is. The sad part is that so many Americans fell for them. It’s not as if we didn’t see almost four years of his performance in office to know the breadth of his unfitness.
I think he did as well as he did, despite a pandemic, because he fooled an untold number of Americans that he would be better than Joe on the economy, and his Trump v. Socialism schtick stuck with a lot of folks, especially in FL.
Oh, and Trump’s democracy-undermining comments last night were completely inexcusable. Two observations from your new colleague.
And this.
I wonder if Trump truly doesn’t understand that the votes have been (or are being) legally turned in, and that every legal vote needs to be counted. Instead, he’s proposing to disenfranchise thousands of ballots that legislatively had to be counted later.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 11/4/2020 @ 7:34 amHarkin,
Is it your contention that votes counted on Wednesday are inherently illegitimate? That votes counted during the night are illegitimate?
Why is it that Republicans don’t want to count actual votes of actual people?
Note that, as everybody predicted, Trump is behind by millions of votes already on the popular vote and that’s without all the California votes counted. Once again the Electoral College props up a Republican president, and almost wins it for him.
Victor (00af29) — 11/4/2020 @ 7:41 amOur military has until next Tuesday to vote. Trump wants to stop counting their votes. Al Gore did something similar with postmarking laws. So selfish.
Dustin (4237e0) — 11/4/2020 @ 7:46 amTrump will lose, but he did better than the media and Democrats (BIRM) predicted. That won’t stop the media and Democrats from crowing Biden has a mandate to overhaul the US SCOTUS, invite several new states into the union, blow up the fossil fuel industry, and raise taxes.
Hoi Polloi (15cfac) — 11/4/2020 @ 7:46 amMy contention is that Democrats have ‘found’ enough votes to get them over in the past.
Let’s see where this goes.
Also seeing reports that on one Michigan update 128k votes were added and they were 100% Biden votes.
I say wait and see but do I think Dems are above ‘finding’ enough Biden votes to get over?
Not at all.
harkin (7fb4c9) — 11/4/2020 @ 7:46 am__
Yeah. There’s great news. no Court packing. Biden will win (look at him taking Nevada and Arizona and try to find a way he can’t get 270 in the EC).
But. We didn’t say the loud NO that a great nation must say to a horrible president. We turn the page, not the chapter.
Dustin (4237e0) — 11/4/2020 @ 7:48 amMost democrats voted early or by mail, and a lot of places count those last. That’s the GOP’s doing, setting up this argument, and indeed enabling the fraud if it happened. And with Trump and the GOP, if they are enabling fraud that’s suspicious these days.
Dustin (4237e0) — 11/4/2020 @ 7:49 amDJT is correct in that there should not be any additional voting. His lawyers will be arguing that, effectively, the Dems added paper ballot “votes” into the mix after the polls closed.
The most interesting remaining question is the Senate. The Loeffler race is no question going to a runoff. Perdue is in real danger of a runoff, at best. The remaining votes are overwhelmingly Dem. I would be very surprised if he is declared the winner based on the vote yesterday.
With Biden winning, if the Dems can grab both of those seats in a runoff, which is more likely than not based on the make-up of the electorate yesterday, they get control. There will not be a Trump to motivate the GOP voters and they will be dispirited. The money that will be poured into these races will be staggering.
Ed from SFV (f64387) — 11/4/2020 @ 7:51 amDo you have a link for that? I’d love to see what they are reporting.
Hoi Polloi (15cfac) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:00 amPatterico, I continue to believe that many people voted for DJT NOT because they like his tweeting, his bombastic personal style, or even his SCOTUS picks.
I believe that they watch the Left attack him personally, day after day. The media writing bizarre stories, day after day. And they are reacting against that.
Already, I have friends—good and decent people—insisting that half the nation is racist and sexist.
Yup. Calling people names and impugning them really does bring more people to one’s side.
Trump could have won easily by not being a jerk and putting down his phone.
Biden could have won easily by not letting the progressive Left call people who disagree with them evil.
But what the heck do I know?
Simon Jester (9d409e) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:03 am@16 it’s all over twitter…
The only innocuous thing I can think of that it’s a tabulation or phat finger somewhere, but not actual fraud. Still stinks and officials need to go out and explain what happened.
whembly (c30c83) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:03 am@18 Or, better explained is that the updater clicked send after Biden and then separately updated Trump separately. I hope that’s the case.
whembly (c30c83) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:06 am“Do you have a link?”
Below, with screen caps of the change in totals:
Matt Mackowiak
@MattMackowiak
An update gives Biden 100% of new votes — 128k+
https://twitter.com/MattMackowiak/status/1323992377380450309?s=20
harkin (7fb4c9) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:06 am_
Dan McLaughin has a better explanation:
whembly (c30c83) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:07 am@baseballcrank
I noted these last night a few minutes apart. Please, remember that what looks like election officials discovering big shifts in the voting is actually just somebody in between the vote-counters and the press/websites making a typo or having to juggle multiple streams of data.
I wonder if Biden will continue with the historic Peace accords and progress made by Trump in the Middle East or ……. oh wait he’s already been talking with the Palestinian Authority…. well I guess he can send them Billions of dollars like his former boss did to Iran…..
But the real question is what are the commenters on this site gonna do?
If Trump wins it’s a given of four more years of hatred toward our President.
But if Biden wins? What ya gonna talk about? Pursue Trump to the grave?
Find faults with Biden? (Because many have stated you don’t own the result if Biden wins)
Fight to defeat Biden in 2024 (or should I say Harris)…? A few weeks back someone said that once Biden was in it would be so bad we could vote him out easy…. if that were true how do you explain so many Democrat strongholds and cities that remain Democrat. That’s one corrupt machine that’s hard to move.
All I know is that over the past month I have seen comments here that are pure hate. Toward Trump, toward his supporters, shoot, toward the dog that peed on your front lawn. What are you going to do with all that hate? I hope you deal with it and let it go.
As for me. If Trump wins I go on living my life. If Biden wins I go on living my life. But I’m not wasting my time hating anyone. It just hurts me if I do.
Marci (405d43) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:08 amHe has made it abundantly clear, over and over, that if he lost the election it could only be fraudulent — just as he insists that anything that doesn’t flatter him must be considered false, and anything that doesn’t serve him must be bad.
His grotesquely selfish view of right and wrong is now the face of conservatism, and even painted as good character by people who used to know better.
Those are people used to say it was terrible that Trump had a pattern of cheating people for personal gain. Now they consider it unfair to disapprove of such biographical details.
They used to say it was terrible when a president lied to us, but every time Trump lies they say it’s only his “style” or mere “personality,” and that it’s elitist to take offense.
They used to be appalled by Bill Clinton’s treatment of women (they had a list of 4 o4 5 names), but now they have only contempt for the 26 women who have publicly accused Trump of abusive behavior.
They honor someone who mocked a former POW for the fact that he was “captured,” and who ridicules physical disability, and who barely listened, stone cold, to a young woman’s harrowing tale of suffering and loss, until the topic of a Nobel Prize came up, because there is nothing Trump cares about half so much as the glorification of himself. He physically pushed aside the president of a smaller country so he could get in front and preen for the cameras.
Trump is still the deeply selfish, dishonest, callous and self-serving person that some of his current defenders actually recognized some time ago, and that many people who have worked closely with him say he really is.
And to the Trumpers who say this proves the NeverTrumpers have been wrong all along: Bill Clinton won twice. Obama won two elections easily, with comfortable popular-vote margins. None of today’s Trump apologists ever took that as proof that being pro-Clinton or pro-Obama was correct and it was time to stop the criticism.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:12 amThat’s the problem these days – you can have your opinion, but if it does not toe the line of Democrat GroupThink, then you are a racist. A misogynist. An Islamophobe. A fascist. Whatever.
And then they wonder why more people don’t vote for their preferred candidate…
Hoi Polloi (15cfac) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:13 amPlease! Whether we should drink the milk from a bucket that a syphilitic cow peed in (policies vs. personality) is behind us. That decision has been made and the votes have been cast. The only thing right now is counting the votes. Counting every vote! Bargaining away the grief, consolation, and blame-placing, is for later, if ever.
nk (1d9030) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:16 am“ But if Biden wins? What ya gonna talk about? Pursue Trump to the grave?”
__
They will be blaming Trump for every terrible thing Biden/Harris do.
The Republicans held the Senate, despite many Never-Trumpers saying any Republicans who pushed back on the 4 year coup attempt should lose.
That (holding the Senate, if it pans out) will be huge but the result of Biden/Harris controlling the Executive will also be huge and not in a good way.
The next four years will be conservatives who voted for Biden/Harris saying:
“Dang it, I sure wish some conservatives on government power, in other words people who don’t want to control how others live, took the democratic party away from the kooks. People who smash up businesses, block traffic, or hate the country, should be outside the major parties. And we need more secure and speedy voting too.”
harkin (7fb4c9) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:23 am_
You are correct, nk. And I did not vote for DJT, nor JB. Just couldn’t do it.
But the nonsense that voter fraud does not happen must stop. Since the die is cast now, I think that both D and R and Is should get together to agree on an approach that prevents it. No more burning down shacks with votes (Lyndon Lightning) or finding trunkloads of ballots (Al Franken).
Simon Jester (9d409e) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:24 amWell, I can’t speak for anyone else of course, I would like to go on record, yet again: While I greatly dislike Trump for a number of reasons, I do not hate him. That is reserved for actual real-life Hitlers of the world. And if Biden wins, I suspect I’ll be just as critical of him and any irresponsible or damaging decisions he makes as much as I have been with Trump. You see, contrary to what you seem to think, I believe *every* president should have his feet held to the fire and be held accountable for their decision-making. Party doesn’t come into play. But, if someone is loyal to party first, then I could understand why you might think that Biden would get a free pass from Trump critics. I have always maintained that Americans should not let party loyalty decide for them whether to call a spade a spade with regard to any elected official – from the top all the way down to local government.
Dana (6995e0) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:26 amSomebody has already won. We just don’t know who. I doubt very much that it’s Trump.
But I can tell you why it was not a landslide. Kamala Harris. As some of you may have already guessed I am not a big fan of Donald Trump, but for one whole day (maybe more) I was going to vote for him when I heard that Biden had picked Harris for VP.
nk (1d9030) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:29 amTrump’s declaration is perfectly in line with his behavior throughout. It’s why I didn’t realistically consider not voting for Biden, despite my vehement disagreement with a lot of the policies a Biden administration would seek to enact. It was a tinpot dictator move that threatens the entire structure of our government.
To head off the “but communism!”, I don’t think the American people will tolerate a slide towards the notion that enforcing equality in outcomes is the job of the government. I wish they didn’t voice support for stuff like that. If I had a moment’s hesitation in voting for Biden, it would have been reduced to a millisecond without that kind of talk.
johnnyagreeable (7bdd65) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:31 amProbably call things as we see them, as most of us did before Trump and will continue to do afterward.
Does it bother you when Trump publicly says mean and hateful things about other Americans? If he didn’t do that so often, there would probably be less criticism of him on this board.
Fact-based criticism of a self-centered, dishonest man is not “hatred.” For me, it’s largely sadness that what used to be my side now has such a morally repulsive face, and sadness that some people are calling it a higher form of virtue.
I remember with Dems were always fretting about the “Clinton-haters” who had the nerve to say publicly that they didn’t like him, on all those radio shows that were mostly devoted to declaring how horrible he was. And conservatives uniformly said “It’s not hateful to be righteously offended by bad things!”
Later, those shows were mostly devoted to declaring how horrible Obama was. Every day.
Now all the people who loved all that Clinton-bashing and Obama-bashing are pretending that they find something deeply wrong with frequent criticism of a conspicuously awful person holding the presidency.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:33 amHmm…
Wisconsin has more votes than people who are registered to vote.
Total number of registered voters:
3,129,000
Total number of votes cast:
3,239,920
How does that happen?
whembly (c30c83) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:34 amAgree. That’s what made a fair number of Trump critics think maybe they had to hold their nose (again) just to avoid a Pres. Harris.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:36 amAsking what I’ll do if Biden wins is beyond my current concern, to be honest.
To make a terrible analogy, I view Trump as a cancer on the body of America that must be removed. Once removed, we can adjust the treatments as needed. Just as chemotherapy is hell on the body, I’m sure the aftermath will be unpleasant, but if that’s the price so be it.
To take this bad analogy further, I guess a lot of people think we should ignore the cancer because there may be some other malady that might kill the patient faster that we aren’t currently looking for. Maybe that’s true. But I know we have a cancer, and I’m not going to waste time running more tests. Take care of the looming issue first.
johnnyagreeable (7bdd65) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:38 amWhy is it that Trump supporters equate “criticism” of Trump as hate, and yet when they “criticize” their opponents, it’s not?
Dana (6995e0) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:41 amI think there are people who will be happy to go back to criticizing the president mostly on policy grounds, instead of constant public absurdity and grotesque narcissism.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:43 am@32 wait… I might be wrong, looks like there’s 3.6 million registered in WI.
whembly (c30c83) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:46 amImagine if the democrats really are stuffing the ballot box for Biden, but also making sure the GOP keeps the Senate. They are a confused bunch of cheaters.
Dustin (4237e0) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:48 amWhy is it that Trump supporters equate “criticism” of Trump as hate, and yet when they “criticize” their opponents, it’s not?
Is there a #NeverBiden?
beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:49 amI believe that Wisconsin allows people to register and vote on the same day, even election day, as confirmed by a quick Google search.
If so, I think it’s pretty likely that the database tracking total number of registered voters will lag behind and/or the source for the “total number of registered voters” number was pulled from an outdated source.
johnnyagreeable (7bdd65) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:49 amSorry about Lacey. I hope it doesn’t affect your job (or this blog for that matter). I’ve worked for people I had serious disagreements with, and it’s never pleasant. I hear this kind of anti-prosecutor stuff is happening other places, too.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:50 amBut people vote for their own reasons . . .
We’ve heard most of them here.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:51 am@ bnp,
I understand that you are avoiding answering the question by trying to turn it around, but this was the question:
Dana (6995e0) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:53 amSomebody has already won. We just don’t know who. I doubt very much that it’s Trump.
There is NO underlying reality, it’s all probability wave function, which has yet to collapse.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:55 amWhy is it that Trump supporters equate “criticism” of Trump as hate, and yet when they “criticize” their opponents, it’s not?
Projection. Trump has no independence existence except as the lens focusing his supporters’ hatreds and resentments.
nk (1d9030) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:55 amIf you’re into the Many Worlds, your path (or mine) has yet to be chosen. There’s an argument we might see different results.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:56 amIs there a #NeverBiden?
Not really. There is #NeverHarris though.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:57 amBuddhists should not be allowed to enter the study of theoretical physics.
nk (1d9030) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:58 amWith no winner declared in the 2020 presidential race, President Trump appeared in the White House just after 2 a.m. on Wednesday to brazenly claim he had already won the election — and to insist that votes stop being counted even though the ballots of millions of Americans had yet to be tallied.
Four more years of this? We MUST be in Hell.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:58 amBuddhists should not be allowed to enter the study of theoretical physics.
Everett was from D.C. and a committed atheist. Also a committed drinker after his theories were discarded while he was alive.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:01 amThe Democrats had one dismal performance all around. They were projected to take the Executive branch by 10 points and win over 5 or 6 Senate seats. Poll taking will need an major overhaul
Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:04 amBiden was part of the Dem party for ages. He wasn’t a person of flexible political leanings who jumped into politics as a publicity stunt, got wildly disproportionate media coverage, was promoted by people who said the existing party needed to be burned down or at least severely shaken up, then executed a “hostile takeover” of the party (as Jared Kushner described it).
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:04 amTrump doesn’t care about our democracy nearly as much as he does is own aggrandizement.
Time123 (7cca75) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:04 amBaselessly claiming fraud when there’s no evidence of it does real harm. Trump doesn’t care so long is he has an excuse to explain away his loss.
I can understand picking him as a least bad choice. But I don’t see how anyone that loves the US can support him.
Arizona was uncalled by AP. Trump has close the gap considerably, and now trails by 93,000 with about 450,000 votes still out. These are day-of and drop-off votes, which Trump’s people focused on. The early votes are all counted.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:06 amTrump doesn’t care about _____________ as much as he does is own aggrandizement.
FIFY. Problem is, the People often only care about THEIR situation as well.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:07 amBecause Trump supporters are extremely tribal and get a lot of their identity from being ‘team trump’. When you talk policy items of Trump or outcomes trump actions with them, you might be having a conversation about the optimal trade policy but they’re having a conversation about their worth and status as a human being.
So when you say “I think Trump should have stayed in the TPP to better apply leverage to China.” they hear “You’re a loser and I don’t value your way of life.”
Time123 (7cca75) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:08 amI can understand picking him as a least bad choice. But I don’t see how anyone that loves the US can support him.
I suspect that the majority who voted either way did so with revulsion. This would be a really good time to try starting a new center-X party because the distrust of the two legacy parties is at a maximum.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:09 am“I think Trump should have stayed in the TPP to better apply leverage to China.”
Only Hollywood lawyers liked TPP.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:10 am“Why are those assh0les so judgemental?!”
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:11 amI understand that you are avoiding answering the question by trying to turn it around, but this was the question: Why is it that Trump supporters equate “criticism” of Trump as hate, and yet when they “criticize” their opponents, it’s not?
I answered. But, I’ll let others add context for you:
@36: “ I think there are people who will be happy to go back to criticizing the president mostly on policy grounds, instead of constant public absurdity and grotesque narcissism.”
@52: “He wasn’t a person of flexible political leanings who jumped into politics as a publicity stunt, got wildly disproportionate media coverage, was promoted by people who said the existing party needed to be burned down or at least severely shaken up, then executed a “hostile takeover” of the party”
@53: “I don’t see how anyone that loves the US can support him.”
beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:12 amHi guys. Sounds like I missed quite the evening.
JVW (ee64e4) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:15 amNo, you really didn’t answer.
Dana (6995e0) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:16 amI sincerely hope that Jackie Lacey becomes a defense attorney for businesses sued by the county for various regulatory and tax harassments and compiles and unbelievably great record against her old office.
JVW (ee64e4) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:20 amThe DUOPOLY won the election ………The people lost !
Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:22 am@62: It helps to want an answer.
beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:23 amShould be clear from the context that I’m talking about supporting him in his statements and position about claiming fraud absent of any evidence whatsoever.
Did that not come across or is this just your normal bad faith arguments?
Time123 (7cca75) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:27 amHe can’t answer until he figures out how to say “I’m motivated primarily by identity politics and view any/all disagreements as a personal insult.” that isn’t a self own.
The best he can do is attempt to justify his victimhood by pointing to things people say that hurt him.
Time123 (7cca75) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:31 amY’know, I think the results give us all a lot to think about. Based on his handling of coronavirus, Trump should have been demolished. Based on his appeal to America’s Viler Devils, he should have been demolished.
He wasn’t.
Appalled (1a17de) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:32 amDid that not come across or is this just your normal bad faith arguments?
No, that wasn’t clear to me, Time123. I’ve seen enough of your contributions here to make that still unclear to me.
But, from now on, I’ll leave the bad faith arguments, falsehoods, and conspiracy theories to the experts.
beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:32 amWe can expect the left to once again support ending the Electoral College if Biden loses with a two and a half million plus vote lead.
Knickerbocker Slobberknocker (27d313) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:34 amIt doesn’t. It’s FakeNews.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:44 am@69, I’ll correct my comment so it’s more clear.
Trump doesn’t care about our democracy nearly as much as he does is own aggrandizement.
Baselessly claiming fraud when there’s no evidence of it does real harm. Trump doesn’t care so long is he has an excuse to explain away his loss.
I can understand picking him as a least bad choice. But I don’t see how anyone that loves the US can support him in this.
Time123 (7cca75) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:04 am
Time123 (7cca75) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:45 amThe recent riots were probably a big factor, even though Trump is the only candidate who has openly called for violence against opponents and applauded it when it happens.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:45 amOops, I saw the self-correction after the fact.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:46 amOne of the big takeaways from this election will be analyzing negative partisanship and its affects on this election. I think it has played a much bigger part in voting than it ever has before.
Hoi Polloi (15cfac) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:47 amHe is certainly the most overtly, proudly self-centered president (or politician at pretty much any level) that I can recall. It’s baffling how anyone could think it has no bearing on how he makes decisions affected the public.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:48 amMarci,
America is a nation founded on hope. Hope that all will be treated as equals; that we are a nation of laws, not subjects of one man or king; that we can make our children’s lives better than ours are. Donald Trump is not a hopeful person. He uses anger and fear to gain compliance to his desires. He is not what America needs or can be.
DRJ (aede82) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:50 amElection officials “find” votes in the mail, because that’s where the votes are supposed to be. Republicans appear to have problems with the idea that when they are ahead in a count they can’t simply freeze time and stop all counting (Except in Nevada where we have to wait as long as it takes to find votes to overcome Biden’s lead.)
Victor (00af29) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:50 amPlease, this outcome was to be expected. Millions of Americans, mostly Democrats, voted by mail, so they didn’t go to the polls. Some Republicans voted by mail as well, but most didn’t because Trump criticized mail-in ballots, so they did go to the polls. Thus, the numbers are skewed, since all the votes have not yet been counted.
Different states have different rules for counting mail-in ballots. A few count them as they come in, but most don’t start counting them until election day or the day after.
It will probably take a week or two to count all the mail-in ballots, because there are so many of them and so few poll workers. Each mail-in ballot has two envelopes, one containing the ballot and the other for postal delivery. Both must be opened so the vote can be tallied and entered. That takes time, most likely five to ten minutes per ballot.
Every one of these ballots was legally submitted, according to state law. The argument now is over whether to continue or stop counting these votes. Trump’s position is that they shouldn’t be counted, but that’s a fallacious argument. Each state is required by law to count every legally submitted ballot. This year, it’s just going to take some time.
This election won’t be decided for weeks, but every state must submit their final vote tally by Dec. 8, so the electors can be chosen for the electoral college, which will convene on Dec. 14. On Jan. 6, the Congress will certify the votes. Only then will it be over.
Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:02 amLooks like DeJoy might be doing his master’s bidding by discouraging the timely delivery of mail-in ballots, in defiance of a court order.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:02 amLike I said, Radegunda, the fraud is going to come from Trump’s criminals, in this instance DeJoy who has already been discovered to have committed campaign finance fraud.
nk (1d9030) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:09 am@22. Trump critics are always being accused of “hating.” “Haters got to hate,” etc. I don’t sense the sort of hatred on this site that you seem to. Where I do see hatred is in Trump’s constant barrage of insulting tweets. Accusing his critics of “hating” seems to me merely to be a way to deflect any criticism rather than answer it.
Roger (83ed7d) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:09 amBiden is already ahead by 2.8 million votes, i.e. 50.17% of the popular vote. There are major reservoirs of uncounted votes are in California, Illinois, New York and Washington, which means that Biden will end up probably much farther ahead, something like 52 or 53% of the vote. And yet if he only ends up with 270 electoral votes, a real possibility, Republicans will claim that he “barely” won, despite voting numbers that would have been considered a respectable victory in past elections.
Republican presidential candidates have apparently given up on the idea of getting a majority of the nation’s citizens to vote for them. They’ll have lost the popular vote in 7 out of the last 8 elections. They are attempting to normalize the idea that it’s ok if a minority of the country gets to pick the rulers for everybody else.
Victor (00af29) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:15 amI’m all ears.
Dana (6995e0) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:17 amTrump gets a pass on anything that Trump-lovers claim to disapprove of in a non-Trump.
That bothers me more than anything else. Trump’s egregious, arrogant ethical solipsism is not just excused but actively endorsed and supported by his defenders — who claim to be doing so in the service of moral and religious values and true America patriotism and rule of law.
A Trump defender claiming to care about integrity, fairness, decency, civility, etc. cannot be taken seriously again.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:27 amWhembly – Wisconsin has same day registration, but the registration database isn’t updated with the same day registrants until after they are done counting ballots, because the same people would do the work and pick the more important and time sensitive task to do first.
aphrael (4c4719) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:34 am@83
I don’t know about that… maximizing the popular vote isn’t part of the strategy.
It isn’t unusual either.
HRC didn’t get the majority of votes either. Just a plurality, as the “not-HRC” votes held the majority in 2016.
Hell, Bill Clinton never got the majority of votes in his two terms.
Representing our states and territories, we have 51 popular-vote elections, so the people’s “voices” are being heard.
Our federalist system is based on the premise that states matter.
And, the Electoral College system ensures that presidents remain responsive to a range of voters from different parts of the country, instead of solely the dense populating centers.
whembly (c30c83) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:36 am@86 Yup, that totally makes sense. Also, my initial numbers were wrong.
whembly (c30c83) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:37 amVictor: while I have generally been a defender of the EC as an instrument of federalism, this pattern really does make me uneasy. Tim Miller has spoken about it, here.
I do think that differing regional interests and needs should be accounted for, but that’s best done by letting more policy be made at the state and local level, and having a less instrusive national government.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:39 am
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:39 amAlso on the premise that each voter in one state matters 30% as much as each voter in another.
Dave (1bb933) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:39 am@91 And? That’s a feature, not a bug in our system.
whembly (c30c83) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:40 amIt might be recalled that Dems once spoke favorably of EC over popular vote when they thought it would be to their advantage.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:42 amLet’s flip that around, what would Trump supporters say if Biden said stop counting where he was winning but keep counting where he was losing? Trump supporters’ reaction would not be the same. But it should be.
No matter which candidate is demanding that the count only continue if it benefits him is not only inconsistent with the principles of democracy, it is also unethical. There should be equal condemnation no matter who the candidate is.
Dana (6995e0) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:43 amBe careful about spreading misinformation like that so I don’t have to moderate you.
Wisconsin is dunzo. Biden will win there.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:47 amLet’s flip that around, what would Trump supporters say if Biden said stop counting where he was winning but keep counting where he was losing?
What were “real conservatives” saying about voter ID five years ago?
beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:48 amIs it wrong to contemplate a “victorious Horace Greeley” scenario?
urbanleftbehind (cec660) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:52 amYes!
Marci (6b1057) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:54 amWhile I was hoping for a more emphatic rejection of Trump and his wickedness, if things play out as now appears most likely, Biden will end up flipping five states Trump won in 2016 and winning the endorsement of a small, but clear majority of the voters nationwide.
Having cured the disease eating away at America’s heart, doing the same for the plague that has stalked us for too long will be much easier.
Dave (1bb933) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:54 am94. Dana (6995e0) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:43 am
That;s what Al Gore tried in recount in Florida in 2000. (The punchcard system regularly missed votes)
Gore only wanted Broward, Miami-Dade and Palm Beach counties recounted AT ONE POINT. It was argued this was A legitimate election strategy. (Gore probably did lose the election between the time voters entered the polling booth and when they left, but not in a way they could be recovered: i.e. overvotes and the butterfly ballot.
Now Trump is shamelessly asking for the same sort of thing.
He’s also trying to mislead his voters about what he is asking for hoping they won;t go into the weeds..
Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:55 amI don’t discount the Dem capacity for mischief, but now we have a president who has clearly signaled his intent to skew things his way by any means available, and who obviously has a moral code centered on self-interest above all else.
When he declares that an election he loses must be fraudulent, it follows that anything he does to prevent such a loss cannot be wrong, by definition.
I don’t know how someone could expect such a brazenly dishonest, self-centered man, known for regular cheating in business, to refrain from cheating in an election.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:55 am@98 — hey, it’s nice that we agreed on something.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:57 am@95 I corrected myself in the very next post. Wished we had edit buttons… :'(
whembly (c30c83) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:59 am@98, actually I think we agree on quite a bit.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:00 amI just think it’s deeply damaging to make Donald Trump the face of an agenda that purports to be all about solid American values and moral virtues.
Mollie
@MZHemingway
Obvious point here but: media quickly calling states in Biden’s favor, when they’re actually close, and slow-walking the announcements of Trump’s clear victories is not a good look for being trusted or fighting a narrative of an election being stolen from the voters.
harkin (7fb4c9) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:01 am_
83. Victor (00af29) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:15 am
Ann Coulter argues that id the popular vote mattered, the result would be different. She has friends in California who don;t register to vote because they reason that the Republican Party is of no account and the only effect of registering would be to be called up for jury duty (which I don;t know is even still correct)
Also more people would vote in parts of New York etc..
Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:01 amOnly if it turns out they’re wrong in what they’re calling. Also, i’ve noticed that NYT is keeping states that are leaning 1 way gray, and the AP is showing them pink/light blue. Different approaches to offering information to the reader.
Time123 (80b471) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:06 amRadegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 10:55 am
Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:06 am@107 — That’s a respectable position. And I didn’t stop thinking vote fraud is a thing just because of Trump. But he is not remotely a credible opponent of fraud — nor are the people who sugarcoat everything about him while hollering about lesser sins by others.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:10 amI think the Dems decision to limit or completely avoid in-person GotV probably had something to do with the closer than projected outcome.
If the GOP hadn’t made the equal but opposite mistake of discouraging their people from voting by mail in the pandemic, we would probably be looking at 12 more years…
Dave (1bb933) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:10 am=sigh= The Brits do this election thingy so much better.
‘God save our gracious Queen, Long live our noble Queen, God save the Queen: Send her victorious, Happy and glorious, Long to reign over us: God save the Queen.’ 😉
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:11 am49. Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:58 am
No, we just get what we deserve, by having nobody in politics arguing properly against him.
Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:13 amPlease, this outcome was to be expected. Millions of Americans, mostly Democrats, voted by mail, so they didn’t go to the polls. Some Republicans voted by mail as well, but most didn’t because Trump criticized mail-in ballots, so they did go to the polls. Thus, the numbers are skewed, since all the votes have not yet been counted
Shorter: Trump’s people worked the election the old-fashioned way, with retail politicking and GOTV. Biden’s people mailed it in.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:15 amI wonder if we can have national demonstrations against moronic presidential choices.
Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:17 am“It ain’t over till every vote is counted…” – Joe Biden 11/4/2020
Once a plagiarist; always a plagiarist:
“It ain’t over till it’s over.” – Yogi Berra, 1973
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:19 amOh, merely that. It may be that he has mostly kept just this side of the law (though that isn’t certain), but he clearly has no qualms about hurting people if it gives him an advantage. And it’s easier to cover up actual lawbreaking when one is president.
Trump is the one who asked federal agents to take illegal actions and said he would pardon them. Doesn’t sound like a guy with a high regard for legality.
And maybe it’s not technically illegal to have the postmaster general find some way to interfere with the timely delivery of ballots, but it would certainly be a violation of democratic principles.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:19 amOh my! How can we possibly cope with a president who repeated FOUR WORDS that someone said in 1973? It’s an outrage!
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:22 amIt might be literally impossible for Mr. President Donald Trump, who never came to terms with the realization that his mommy loved his daddy more than she loved him, to conceive that there are 80 million people who do not love him.
It would be like conceiving that there are 80 million people who can fly like Superman and do not need air to breathe.
A Freudian thing of which no one can doubt that he is a classic case, and it would explain his fanbois, too, the mother-figures!
nk (1d9030) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:22 am“I am not a crook” is 5 words
urbanleftbehind (cec660) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:24 am96:
I have supported Voter ID for at least 12 years.
DRJ (aede82) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:29 amOh my! How can we possibly cope with a president who repeated FOUR WORDS that someone said in 1973? It’s an outrage!
Rest easy, Radegunda; and you have my permission to quote me: the only thing you have to fear is fear itself.
😉
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:31 amPaul Montagu (77c694) — 11/4/2020 @ 7:34 am
Also Biden’s health and age, and the refusal of Biden to give a clear explanation about the accusations involving Hunter (where things are not as bad as Giuliani and others made it out to be)
And mistrust of the Democratic Party in general, that they don’t say what they are for and that they are for bad and stupid things. (This makes Biden’s fortitude much more important)
Correct.
His only evidence for that is that further results stopped being reported in some states. But that is because a lot of what’s missing is late tabulating absentee votes.
Correct. If course, people should not make false accusations against him too, like fomenting violence. Or being in league with some tiny group(s) of white supremacists. That also is not something leaders who care about the health of our democracy or our institutions do.
Now nobody should ask him if he does.
Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:38 amIf I ever find that I actually believe that vapid line …
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:39 amAlways wrong; never in doubt:
Dave (1bb933) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:41 amPlagiarizing FDR while pointing out Biden’s ancient or occasional plagiarisms? I suspect he is mocking us for taking him seriously.
DRJ (aede82) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:46 amNow we know why many sites are rescinding their AZ call for Biden…
whembly (c30c83) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:48 am@126. ‘ancient?’ [early today?!!] ‘occasional’ ?
ROFLMAOPIP
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:49 am@125. You can’t count, Davey:
2. Final tally in the Senate- 52 D, 48 R– no final tally yet
5. Brightest star emerging from this election- Mark Kelly– he won
6. Career that is pretty much over after this election- Will/Goldberg/French, all ‘Lincoln Project’ associates and, of course, Joe Biden– Will/Goldberg/French and LP wackos remain irrelevant; Biden’s fate still unctain
7. Final electoral college tally- The Donald squeaks by w/275– Final tally still unknown; Allow me to plagiarize Joe–or is it Yogi- ‘it ain’t over ’till its over.’
8. Earliest date that the winner of the Presidential contest will be accurately declared and by whom- January, 2021, when EC tallies are certified and reported to Congress…. by VP Pence?! Still don’t know that,DAvey.
Stay out of the Poli-Sci lab, Davey.
Stick to counting neutrinos.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:57 am1988 is ancient to everyone but you.
DRJ (aede82) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:58 amI think it’s all in sport. And some mood-lightening is not a bad thing right now.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:58 amWhat is most disturbing about this election is how many Republicans validated Trump on election day. That says a lot about how corrupted the party has become.
All the votes have not been counted. In 2018, half a million mail-in ballots were discounted, because they weren’t filled out properly or the signatures didn’t match the county records. I suspect it will be the same this year. But every legally submitted ballot must be counted, by state law.
In 2000, Bush v Gore, the Supreme Court ruled that because counties were counting votes in different ways, the counting was over, and the state of Florida must submit its final vote tally by or on Dec. 8.
So that was that. At no count did Gore exceed Bush, and thus the presidency was determined.
Trump’s argument is that mail-in ballots should not be counted, because counties and states have different rules for counting them.
I seriously doubt the lower courts, much more the Supreme Court, will agree to hear that case.
The courts are not going to disenfranchise voters, because they chose to vote by mail during a pandemic. The courts are not got going to disenfranchise the military, because they could only vote by mail.
Trump will sue of course, claim fraud, illegitimacy, theft, and all that. But it won’t matter. He can’t win that argument in any court. The states will count every legally submitted ballot. It may take weeks to count them all, but they will be counted. And then we will know.
Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:58 am117. Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 11:19 am
If he did, he never would have operated casinos in Atlantic City, for one thing. Or sold things that were overpriced.
I think that;s mostly a coincidence, and he on;y delayed mail an extra one or two days (but got mail delivered earlier in the day.)
The problem with delayed mail has been true for years. Don’t credit card companies warn you to mail checks, if the mail is used, a week in advance? This whole issue was ignored for years by people who advocated absentee voting.
Some days I get only magazines or catalogs; some days I get on;y first class mail, although usually both.
I don;t know if it’s the Census Bureau or the Post Office but…
My pay report for Sept 23 was delivered October 27.
My pay report for Sept 30 was delivered October 13.
My pay report for October 7 was delivered October 27. (along with the one for two weeks earlier)
My pay report for October 14 was delivered October 26.
There was no pay October 21
My pay report for October 28 was delivered November 3.
Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/4/2020 @ 12:14 pmYes. One has to now wonder how the Republican Party can (and if they will) separate from Trumpism in order to regain the viability and status of the Party.
Dana (6995e0) — 11/4/2020 @ 12:16 pmRadegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 9:04 am
I think it was maybe a publicity stunt when Donald Trump jumped into the presidential race in 1987…,
https://time.com/4448365/draft-donald-trump-mike-dunbar-new-hampshire
https://www.nytimes.com/1987/10/23/nyregion/new-hampshire-speech-earns-praise-for-trump.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8wJc7vHcTs See at 4:37.
He will go to New Hampshire because he made a committment but he has no intention of running for president.
But not in 2015.
Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/4/2020 @ 12:27 pm>The problem with delayed mail has been true for years.
And is easily fixable in the election contest with “postmarked by election day received by a week later” type rules.
aphrael (4c4719) — 11/4/2020 @ 12:28 pmOctober 27, 1987 New York Times:
Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/4/2020 @ 12:28 pmEither that, or warnings about how far in advance to mail it have been the case for years.
Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/4/2020 @ 12:32 pmThere was a lawsuit in CO because the post office did just that. Sent out notices advising people to mail their ballots in early. They used a generic time (15 days if I recall) and used the same mailer in many states to save money. I got one here in zTX saying don’t wait! The Post Office will be busy, make sure you mail it in plenty of time. I think it was the Dens in CO that had a hissy fit because it said 15 days instead of their day count (3)? Shoot I’d be happy they were saying vote! Mail early! No mask required to drop it in a drive-up box.
Who actually thought the postal service could even handle this? We don’t do anything financial by mail anymore because checks go missing, mail gets lost, even registered mail in one case. Our little post office made Natl news it was so bad. Add to that the collapse of the regions sorting facility during Harvey….. I don’t trust the USPS. And this is not a Trump problem. The Post Office has been incompetent for many election cycles.
Marci (405d43) — 11/4/2020 @ 12:45 pmForgive the typos…. FFS. Fat finger syndrome on a phone.
Marci (405d43) — 11/4/2020 @ 12:47 pm@134
Many GOP politicians are running AHEAD of Trump (just look at Collins!). GOP is also slated to GAIN 7-12 seats.
So once Trump leaves, the “Trumpier” aspect of the party will die down.
whembly (c30c83) — 11/4/2020 @ 12:49 pmPeople close to the action have said that he wasn’t at all prepared for a win, and it’s obvious that soaking up adulation at rallies has always been the heart of the job for him, and lobbying to get himself on Mt. Rushmore or get a Nobel Prize. He complained about getting briefing papers put in front of him after soaking up the luuuv at rallies, and many people have testified to his lack of interest in learning much of anything related to governance.
I’ll repeat what I said not long ago: I think there are people who in 2015 saw the celebrity-worshiping crowds he drew, the adulation from people who overestimated his business genius, and heard him make vague pronouncements about America first and bringing back jobs, and saw him as the perfect nearly-empty vessel for their own agenda. And they told him: if you promote these policies, we’ll zealously promote you as the singular savior of the nation.
For Trump, being president is basically a big ego trip, to a greater degree than for any other president in my memory. That’s certainly what he projects on a regular basis.
Radegunda (20775b) — 11/4/2020 @ 12:56 pmSorry, I did not see that. But I really do not want my site to be used to spread election-related misinformation with unsubstantiated rumors about fraud. It’s happened twice already today, on this very post, and I want it to stop. I understand this is going to be the Trump fans’ claim going forward. But only genuine concerns, please, and research them first.
Patterico (115b1f) — 11/4/2020 @ 1:09 pmPatterico, I’m skeptical of anything Buzzfeed says, but with that caveat take a look at their roundup of election rumors.
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/janelytvynenko/election-rumors-debunked?fbclid=IwAR0_3nx2ogfnd7jpbo4s92oNn4gDPTQpOkSb7Ze5aTOGb5wYx60cPaT2ZIo#125898666
Time123 (7cca75) — 11/4/2020 @ 1:16 pm106 Sammy,
I agree that an election run with a popular vote rule may end up in a different place than our current strange system, but it would be a lot better place. All the Republican defenders of the Electoral College are apparently happy that millions of votes cast by conservatives in California and New York are worthless and irrelevant. I think it would be great if your friend voted, as opposed to being resigned to a system where a majority of citizens do not decide who their national leader is.
And, the other thing, I am old enough to remember where the idea that the EC and the popular vote would diverge was considered a rare curiosity and that if it occurred it would be a crisis. I am old enough to remember Republicans saying this is in the lead up to 2000 when it looked like Bush would have clear win in popular votes, but the EC was in doubt.
Now the idea that a minority of voters, increasingly identified with one ideology and one political party, are going to have enhanced political power to get their way is now part of Republican orthodoxy, and anybody questioning the EC is a radical.
Victor (00af29) — 11/4/2020 @ 1:22 pmWhembly,
Why shouldn’t the votes of a million people in a city count more than a 100,000 people in a suburb. Why is it that every argument for the EC usually devolves into a claim that people who live close to each other are inherently less worthy of holding political power than people who spread apart?
Sure states matter. That’s why the Senate is malapportioned and states have the power to write their own marijuana rules. But the theory that underpopulated states here and there should have the power to decide who leads the entire country is daft. The president runs one country, and is not the genial head of a board of 51 directors. A minority of the population should not decide the foreign policy, judicial appointments, and executive direction in flat out opposition to the majority of the country.
Victor (00af29) — 11/4/2020 @ 1:26 pm141. whembly (c30c83) — 11/4/2020 @ 12:49 pm
In the House of Representatives?
Coattails without the coat?
Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/4/2020 @ 3:11 pm130.1988 is ancient to everyone but you.
Making excuses for thievery.
Love it. Reaganoaurics.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/4/2020 @ 4:19 pm17. Simon Jester (9d409e) — 11/4/2020 @ 8:03 am
I heard someone say who I think voted for Trump) that (the premise being Trump lost) that he did it to himself. He talks too much. And says the wrong things.
Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/4/2020 @ 6:43 pmVictor (00af29) — 11/4/2020 @ 1:22 pm
That wasn’t my friend, that was maybe more than one friend of Ann oulter whom I heard on the radio saying they didn’t register to vote (in California) because their vote didn;t matter for anything (not just president) and because they thought the only thing it would do was get them called for jury duty which they didn’t want. (there are efforts by the people running things not to have voter registration data, or that alone, used for jury duty – that used to be used, I presume, because they knew they were all citizens, which is true even if they don’t have to go out and prove it any more.)
I saw a letter in the New York Times today like this:
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/03/opinion/letters/trump-biden-election-voting.html
Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/4/2020 @ 6:55 pmThere’s a big difference between not voting for President (which includes me) and not voting period.
There were numerous candidates and propositions in CA which I voted for/against (e.g. how any thinking, breathing American could fail to reject Prop 16 is beyond me).
And it’s amazing how more and more people (especially anyone from a small state like Norma from AL) could believe the Electoral college is a bad thing. I wonder if she also thinks AL should have one Senator and CA have 40.
The EC is a creation of genius to force the urban mob to present their case to the rural individuals. It’s worked pretty well.
harkin (7fb4c9) — 11/5/2020 @ 8:02 am_
harkin (7fb4c9) — 11/5/2020 @ 8:02 am
It lost 56% to 44%, or about 1.25 votes against to each vote for, which Lanhee Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution, said to the AP was resounding.
It won support in areas like San Francisco and Los Angeles, but failed in large chunks of the state.
In New York we didn’t have any constitutional amendments or bond issues or city charter amendments to vote on.
Just president, member of Congress, state Senator and Assemblyman, plus judges.
And it’s amazing how more and more people (especially anyone from a small state like Norma from AL) could believe the Electoral college is a bad thing. I wonder if she also thinks AL should have one Senator and CA have 40.
The EC is a creation of genius to force the urban mob to present their case to the rural individuals. It’s worked pretty well.
Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/5/2020 @ 11:11 am_