Patterico's Pontifications

11/1/2020

Big Media Uncritically Repeats False Narrative that Trump Fans Tried to Force a Vehicle Off the Road (UPDATED)

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 12:45 pm



This is a story of two sides behaving badly, and two sides driving unreasonably, leading to a thankfully minor collision on a Texas highway. However, it is being falsely portrayed by Big Media as a situation where evil Trump fans deliberately tried to run some poor innocent Biden supporters off the road. That narrative is false, based on the evidence available to date.

I will first lay out the Big Media narrative, and then painstakingly explain what happened, with all of the available video evidence of which I am aware. I will say at the outset — just as I said when I first discussed this with people yesterday — that additional information can always change my conclusion. In fact, I have learned additional information since yesterday morning that solidifies a suspicion I had that the Trump fan acted unreasonably to a degree. However, I continue to believe that the Biden staffers likely bear primary responsibility for the collision, although it is impossible to know this with certainty. As we will see, the local police agree with me that the Biden vehicle was likely the at-fault vehicle.

First, the Big Media narrative. The New York Times headline reads: Vehicles flying Trump flags try to force a Biden-Harris campaign bus off a highway in Texas.

Multiple vehicles bearing Trump flags and signs surrounded a Biden-Harris campaign bus heading from San Antonio to Austin on Friday, forcing campaign officials to scrap two campaign events, according to reports by Democratic officials on Saturday.

The vehicles surrounded the bus on busy Interstate 35 and appeared to be attempting to slow it down and force it to the side of the road, according to social media posts from witnesses and accounts by party activists. In one instance, the vehicles pulled in front of the bus and tried to stop in the middle of the highway.

Katie Naranjo, chair of the Travis County Democratic Party, tweeted that Trump supporters also “ran into a person’s car, yelling curse words and threats.” The bus was occupied by campaign staff workers, who notified local law enforcement, which assisted the vehicle in reaching its destination, party officials said.

I have read multiple articles about the incident and have yet to see a scrap of video evidence supporting the notion that anyone tried to force the bus to the side of the road, but I am open to the idea that such video exists. I have seen nothing showing cars trying to stop the bus on the highway, but again I am open to such video evidence existing.

What I am concentrating on in this post is the allegation that Trump supporters “ran into a person’s car.” This is based on Big Media’s uncritical acceptance of a tweet from Travis County Democratic Party Chair Katie Naranjo:

Here is the Daily Mail‘s wholly fictitious account:

At one point in her video, a white car, later identified as belonging to a Biden staffer, can be seen colliding with a black truck that was closely tailing the Biden bus.

Video shows the truck pushing against the white car, forcing it over the lane line.

As we will see, the white car was already over the lane line. The Daily Mail version suggests that the black truck swooped up next to a white SUV that was totally in its own lane, and pushed it out of the lane over a line. Even though I had people telling me with a straight face on Twitter yesterday that this is what happened, it is not remotely true.

I have seen the one video of which I am aware showing the collision, and several related videos showing surrounding context. While both drivers act unreasonably, I believe the SUV is primarily at fault, as it persists in encroaching into a lane fully occupied by the truck bearing Trump flags, just before the collision.

Most of the analysis begins and ends with this video:

Especially if you watch it only once, you could easily come away with the impression that the truck is trying to ram the SUV. The more you watch it, the less certain you become — and the more videos you watch, the more it ends up looking like two very stubborn road-ragey type drivers, with primary fault going to the white SUV that insisted on occupying two lanes even when there was a vehicle fully within its own lane just inches away.

Here is my summary reply:

But let’s back up and look at the whole event in full context. This was a caravan of loud and proud Trump supporters. They were there in force ahead of time, waiting on the side of the highway:

Their intention appears to have been, at a minimum, to aggressively escort the Biden/Harris bus out of town, or to put it less charitably (and more in line with the way the activist themselves characterize it), to run the bus out of town — to “run his ass out of there”:

“Riding them out of Texas” is the way the lady who videotaped the collision described it, and while she found it “hilarious” I think it is not cool and I do not support these people in any way.

The next video shows a white SUV apparently containing Biden staffers straddling lanes behind the bus, which is not legal. It appears to drift left, perhaps into its own lane, as a black truck with Trump flags drives up in its own lane behind the bus. The white SUV resumes straddling lanes with the black truck just inches away:

At this point, we know that the white SUV, filled with Biden staffers, was straddling lanes. That is unreasonable. You are not allowed to drive down a highway straddling lanes. You may move from one lane to the next, but it is unreasonable to persistently occupy two lanes at once.

Then the black truck with Trump flags pulls next to the SUV while in its own lane. The black truck is tailgating the bus, as is the white SUV. Both acts of tailgating are dangerous and unreasonable. (Dangerously close tailgating, by the way, is much more common on Texas highways than on Los Angeles freeways. Take it from someone who has driven both quite a bit.) The white SUV resumes its illegal act of straddling lanes, with the black truck inches away.

I believe both vehicles are acting unreasonably here, likely both operating under mental conditions of road rage mixed with politics. Under normal circumstances, the truck is perfectly entitled to drive in its own lane. But if someone is straddling lanes in front of you, I believe it is unreasonable to drive up right next to that vehicle. But it is completely 100% unreasonable for the white SUV to refuse to stop straddling lanes, and to veer over towards the black truck, which is fully within its own lane. You don’t get to drive down a freeway straddling lanes while there is a vehicle right next to you in one of the lanes you are straddling.

Given that the white SUV was now acting very unreasonably, the black truck acted unreasonably in bullheadedly continuing on at the same speed, with a dangerously driven SUV inches to its left. You could try to argue that the black truck was within its rights to drive within its lane, but a) it’s tailgating the bus (as is the SUV) and b) your primary responsibility is to drive reasonably and safely. The black truck should have slowed down. But the driver was on a mission. (Some allege that the driver is a fella who has had his issues with lefty protesters before but I don’t see how he could have caught up with the bus given this video, so I think the driver of the truck may have been someone else.)

Now, the collision. Here is the video again.

The following screenshots are from my tweet above, but I want to blow them up for you so you can see how badly the white SUV is encroaching into the black truck’s lane. First is a screenshot from the very beginning of the video:

Video 1

This is from about 16 seconds in, just before (or at?) the point of first contact. You can see how far the white SUV is over the lane line:

Video 2

Followed by these two screenshots:

Video 3

Video 4

These are to show you how far over the line the SUV was during this whole time.

Another view of the time immediately before the collision can be seen here. To me, this video is less instructive but I intend this post to be as completist as possible.

The relevant part is about 25 seconds in, until about 42 seconds in.

So: We know that the vehicles contacted. We know this happens while the white SUV is encroaching into the truck’s lane. We also know that the truck swerves left at one point, either causing more contact or the initial contact. That part is not clear.

Again: I cannot tell if the black truck swerving left caused the initial contact, or resulted from a collision caused that had already been caused by the white SUV (collisions can cause swerving). If the former, it might have been aggressive or defensive (feeling like he is being run off the road).

Before you mock the idea that the swerving could have been caused by a collision, let me tell you a personal story. I was once in a collision where, after my car collided with another car, the other car drove a good 50-75 yards down the road, swerving all over the road, eventually running up a median and into a tree. (The occupants of the car were OK, thank goodness.) I believe the collision was my fault and that the crazy swerving I observed after the collision was simply the result of the driver trying to regain control of the vehicle and failing to do so. Before that experience, I would have been far less likely to believe it possible that the swerving I see on the video could be the result of a collision. After that experience, I can easily believe it. If you have experienced or witnessed something similar, you’re far more likely to be able to understand the phenomenon than someone who has not.

Some people look at this evidence and see a white SUV innocently trailing the bus in its own lane, and then a Trumper racing up and running the SUV out of its lane. I think that interpretation ignores the aggressive and very dangerous decision by the Biden staffer driver to straddle lanes even with a vehicle right next to the SUV. A video that I saw but that has been deleted showed the SUV straddling lanes behind the bus while operating its flashers, while the lady taking the video commented that the SUV had just caused an accident. It looks to me from that deleted video and all of the context that the SUV was straddling lanes for miles with flashers. They felt entitled to take up two lanes, apparently.

San Marcos police have declined to attribute fault conclusively, but state that the video evidence suggests the white SUV may have been at fault:

San Marcos police said the Biden-Harris bus requested a police escort, but due to excessive traffic officers were not able to catch the bus before it left the jurisdiction.

The police department also said it has researched the crash and watched online video. It said the “at-fault vehicle” may be the Biden-Harris staffer’s car, while the “victim” appears to be one of the Trump vehicles.

“The at-fault vehicle may be the white SUV and the victim appears to be the black truck,” a statement from SMPD reads.

“Calls to the driver of the white SUV have gone unanswered and SMPD has not been contacted by the driver of the black truck. Since SMPD has not spoken to either driver at this time, additional investigation would be required to fully ascertain who was at fault.”

That strikes me as exactly right.

It’s not quite what Big Media told you, though, is it?

UPDATE: I have changed wording about the alleged driver to indicate some skepticism about whether he really was the driver.

UPDATE x2: Nope, reading all of the posts in this Twitter thread, I am convinced it is indeed him. He appears to have admitted it, too:

If the driver truly admitted “slamming that fucker” that would constitute new evidence suggesting that he did swerve maliciously. I said up front that “additional information can always change my conclusion” and here, I am convinced that the driver of the truck is certainly also at fault. It doesn’t change the fact that the SUV was driving unreasonably in straddling lanes, but it puts a whole new spin on the sudden swerve leftward by the truck.

129 Responses to “Big Media Uncritically Repeats False Narrative that Trump Fans Tried to Force a Vehicle Off the Road (UPDATED)”

  1. I think you are right but I am still ashamed of these Texans. Grow up.

    DRJ (aede82) — 11/1/2020 @ 12:52 pm

  2. UPDATE: I have changed wording about the alleged driver to indicate some skepticism about whether he really was the driver.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 11/1/2020 @ 12:59 pm

  3. Yes, DRJ, I agree. As I said:

    Riding them out of Texas” is the way the lady who videotaped the collision described it, and while she found it “hilarious” I think it is not cool and I do not support these people in any way.

    I’ve been explaining this for the last 24 hours to people who missed my tweets saying I disapprove of this convoy. Now I put everything in this post so I can simply give them the link on Twitter (a link which they will of course proceed to ignore, because social media).

    Patterico (115b1f) — 11/1/2020 @ 1:00 pm

  4. Life gets exciting when you leave the bunker, eh Joe? 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/1/2020 @ 1:05 pm

  5. I’ve been explaining this for the last 24 hours to people who missed my tweets saying I disapprove of this convoy.

    They don’t care that you said you disapproved of the convoy. Even with this full explanation and videos, it will matter far less than what they *need* the story to be. Big Media included. And speaking of Big Media, why are they apparently so unable to put this together in a succinct and clear way as the proprietor of a blog? Sadly, we know why.

    Dana (6995e0) — 11/1/2020 @ 1:13 pm

  6. This is not an appropriate way to respond to a presidential campaign you don’t like. All I hear is ‘why ain’t Biden campaigning in Texas’? but the truth is his fanboys are terrified of letting him campaign in Texas, and Trump is praising this kind of garbage.

    Very interesting that the at-fault vehicle of the collision might have been a Biden fanboy, but when surrounded by thugs, people tend to make poor decisions.

    I’m embarrassed of these Texans.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 11/1/2020 @ 1:16 pm

  7. 1) I don’t see anything incorrect in the NYT reporting. What did I miss? They cited eyewitness accounts, and posted the same video you’re using to arrive at a different conclusion.

    2) It’s laudable that you “don’t approve” of this vehicular mob, but will you also consider that they created an environment where less-than-optimal driving decisions are expected? The campaign was sufficiently spooked (beyond this collision) to cancel their planned events. In that context of a perceived physical threat to Harris, the white SUV appears to aggressively claim the spot behind the bus. Probably not the best decision, but perhaps not the point either? The bigger point is the danger created by this caravan, and Trump’s glee in encouraging immature gestures like this which invariably lead to dark places (see Rittenhouse, Kyle).

    Laurence (b446a1) — 11/1/2020 @ 1:35 pm

  8. Given the loud outcry by Trumpers when the protesters clogged the roads this summer, there is an irony to this. I think all reasonable people can agree that this was not a wise thing to do, hurt the Republicans in Texas, and the optics are awful. You’d think Trump supporters would want to help their guy win.

    Dana (6995e0) — 11/1/2020 @ 1:51 pm

  9. It’s laudable that you “don’t approve” of this vehicular mob, but will you also consider that they created an environment where less-than-optimal driving decisions are expected? The campaign was sufficiently spooked (beyond this collision) to cancel their planned events. In that context of a perceived physical threat to Harris, the white SUV appears to aggressively claim the spot behind the bus. Probably not the best decision, but perhaps not the point either? The bigger point is the danger created by this caravan, and Trump’s glee in encouraging immature gestures like this which invariably lead to dark places (see Rittenhouse, Kyle).

    I think they are both “the point.” As a thought experiment, pretend it’s the Biden folks in the truck and the Trump ones in the SUV. Now can you see how the SUV driving in such a dangerous manner, regardless of provocation, creates a real danger on the road?

    Patterico (115b1f) — 11/1/2020 @ 1:56 pm

  10. Give them there Texans credit for not chasing ’em down on horseback w/six-guns-a-blazing. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/1/2020 @ 2:03 pm

  11. I make no claims about what did or didn’t happen, but the video shows a few seconds of what was allegedly an extended incident, no?

    CNN’s reporting makes clear that the charges originate from Biden affiliates:

    FBI investigating alleged harassment of Biden campaign bus

    The FBI is investigating the alleged harassment of a Joe Biden campaign bus last week by motorists displaying Trump 2020 flags, a law enforcement source familiar with the probe told CNN on Sunday.

    The incident took place in Texas on Friday as the campaign bus was traveling from San Antonio to Austin as part of a push to urge Biden supporters to cast their ballots on the state’s last day of early voting. A Biden campaign official described the motorists’ actions as an attempt to slow down the bus and run it off the road.

    People in vehicles that were part of a “Trump Train” began yelling profanities and obscenities and then blockaded the entire Biden entourage, according to another source familiar with the incident.

    At one point they slowed the tour bus to roughly 20 mph on Interstate 35, the campaign official said. The vehicles slowed down to try to stop the bus in the middle of the highway. The source said there were nearly 100 vehicles around the campaign bus. Biden staffers were rattled by the event, the source said, though no one was hurt.

    The charge seems to be that the Trumpers had vehicles in front of, behind and alongside the bus, boxing it in, and then reduced their speed greatly to prevent the bus from traveling at the speed limit.

    Dave (1bb933) — 11/1/2020 @ 2:31 pm

  12. I thought Biden-Harris were in the party of de-escalating conflicts? They need to defund their staffer

    It is a really bad idea to put a vehicle into someone elses lane to make a point because the other driver might respond defensively and make their own [stupid] point.
    I’m glad that this did not result in injury or death. Both drivers should get their licenses revoked, but that isn’t likely so I’d settle for a laundry list of fines and some public serice cleaning up the highways.

    steveg (43b7a5) — 11/1/2020 @ 2:31 pm

  13. As a thought experiment, pretend it’s the Biden folks in the truck and the Trump ones in the SUV.

    This counterfactual requires a robust act of imagination, but I’d like to think that I would extend some charity to the Trump supporter in the SUV, who is making a poor (yes, even dangerous) decision while provoked and feeling threatened.

    Laurence (b446a1) — 11/1/2020 @ 2:55 pm

  14. The charge seems to be that the Trumpers had vehicles in front of, behind and alongside the bus, boxing it in, and then reduced their speed greatly to prevent the bus from traveling at the speed limit.

    Is there any video evidence of this?

    Patterico (115b1f) — 11/1/2020 @ 2:55 pm

  15. @11.Eh, we’re into ‘the dead man’s zone’ what w/48-72 hours left; zealots and partisans are fried, frazzled, wacky and generally exhausted from a year or more of this partying craziness. Next weekend they’ll be back to BBQing, any football available and planning Thanksgiving. That’s why the Brits do this better; shorter campaigns; over, done and losers expunged from any party leadership.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/1/2020 @ 3:07 pm

  16. #15 — No question that the situation we now have would be more easily resolved under the UK system. But PM Jeb Bush probably would have annoyed you.

    Appalled (1a17de) — 11/1/2020 @ 3:20 pm

  17. Or you know you could worry that Trump intends to declare himself victor on Election night regardless of how many votes are left in Pennsylvania to count and how those uncounted valid ballots effect the result.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/2020-election-live-updates-biden-trump-voting-issues-polls-results.html

    I agree that figuring out how media react to mildly ambiguous video is interesting, and reveals bias, while everybody furiously either zooms out on the question of how legit was the caravan or zooms in on how exactly how much space was available to the SUV for merging.

    But all the time you do that the larger question remains – is this going to be an election that the president actively and openly attempts to steal?

    Victor (00af29) — 11/1/2020 @ 3:32 pm

  18. Give them there Texans credit for not chasing ’em down on horseback w/six-guns-a-blazing. 😉

    That’s for cradle robbin’ judges from Alabammy. A six gun is an infant’s toy in modern Texas.

    urbanleftbehind (32ae21) — 11/1/2020 @ 3:33 pm

  19. Big Media got this right:

    Today’s Biden Gaffe:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6FZ41uAOSg

    O.M.G.

    Biden stands in Philadelphia before cameras and brags to voters he’s wearing his Eagles jacket [which is green BTW] when in fact, he was standing there addressing them wearing a Delaware Blue Hens jacket- [which is blue BTW] complete w/a Blue Hens logo on his chest literally six inches below his eyes.

    He’s an idiot.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/1/2020 @ 3:35 pm

  20. Lately I disagree with most of what Patterico posts, but nice to see he’s demanding evidence for this episode and publicly coming out on a side I’m sure he would prefer not to.

    Hey Dustin: glven your “thugs” comment, you musta been really supportive of the McCloskeys in St Louis then.

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/1/2020 @ 3:44 pm

  21. Is there any video evidence of this?

    Not that I’m aware of; I was just interpreting the CNN report I quoted.

    But if you had a large number of smaller vehicles and wanted to stop or greatly impede a tour bus on a highway, that seems like an easy and (relatively) safe way to do it.

    Dave (1bb933) — 11/1/2020 @ 3:45 pm

  22. O.M.G.

    Go to your room and play with Buzz Lightyear.

    Grown-ups are trying to have a conversation.

    Dave (1bb933) — 11/1/2020 @ 3:46 pm

  23. Let’s just skip the election and go straight to the exorcism.

    https://hotair.com/archives/jazz-shaw/2020/11/01/politics-isnt-stopping-riots-exorcism/

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/1/2020 @ 3:50 pm

  24. @22. Grown-ups are trying to have a conversation.

    Yes, stuttering aside, that’s been Joe’s excuse since the second brain surgery, Davey.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/1/2020 @ 3:50 pm

  25. The main things this new evidence proves is that the Texas Mexican-American voters are not voting as a bloc for Biden and some blond woman from New Braunfels thought it was all clever, harmless and funny. I haven’t seen intent to run the Biden bus out of its lane, I do see the caravan folks could give AF if the staffers SUV got rubberized.

    If it was a reverse situation, it’d be white Trump staffer driving white vehicle shows racism and privilege by trying to push minority brown person driving black vehicle to a fiery death under the Trump bus. Minority brown driver pwns Trumpster and its all good.

    steveg (43b7a5) — 11/1/2020 @ 4:09 pm

  26. Joe comes off better amongst pumpkins than he does amongst people.

    mg (8cbc69) — 11/1/2020 @ 4:11 pm

  27. In the meantime it’s official: the song Eye Of The Tiger by Survivor needs to be banned everywhere forever!

    That song has been a menace to society since 1982.

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/1/2020 @ 4:21 pm

  28. @26. Hope he goes to Fenway and tells any vendors on hand he’s glad to be addressing New Englanders in Yankee Stadium. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/1/2020 @ 4:23 pm

  29. First, these were all or mostly pickups so the Trump supporters chose big vehicles to make their point. Second, they did not simply follow or drive next to the bus — as would happen if they wanted to “escort” the bus to the next town. There were also Trump vehicles in front of the bus. Thus, I think they were trying to use the front vehicles to slow and box in the bus. I would have been concerned even on a big vehicle like a bus. It doesn’t take much to send a bus into the ditch where it might very well turn over.

    DRJ (aede82) — 11/1/2020 @ 4:38 pm

  30. Hey Dustin: glven your “thugs” comment, you musta been really supportive of the McCloskeys in St Louis then.

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/1/2020 @ 3:44 pm

    I think that is a fascinating line of thought on your part.

    I have worked too many fatality accidents on I 35 to think this is about politics and whatabouts are meaningless. Too many families share the road with these thugs. If they don’t want Biden to campaign in Texas, well tough s***. I guess not. They successfully stopped the campaign being thugs.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 11/1/2020 @ 5:01 pm

  31. 28 da big guy would try to order Manhattan chowder in Beantown.

    mg (8cbc69) — 11/1/2020 @ 5:08 pm

  32. @26 Er, do you realize that the person he’s running against…

    Nic (896fdf) — 11/1/2020 @ 5:23 pm

  33. Trump is claiming that his supporters were “protecting” the Biden-Harris bus because they are “nice”. Exactly from whom they were being protected wasn’t mentioned.

    This is Trump coming to the defense of thugs using dangerous intimidation tactics in an effort to cause fear in his opponent’ss campaign. It worked too. But I think the only people who see the Trump supporters as sympathetic in this drama are other Trump supporters. To most people, and I think to even reasonable people who are choking on their intended vote for Trump, the Biden camp appears more sympathetic, and the victim. Of course, the media will help in this too by framing the collision as the fault of the black pickup truck, despite the videos. The actions of the truck drivers resemble the bully tactics of Trump. It’s disgraceful that Trump is applauding supporters for causing fear, and intimidating Americans. In normal times, any sitting President would denounce this behavior, and demand it stop. But this is now.

    Dana (6995e0) — 11/1/2020 @ 5:30 pm

  34. Harris was not even on the bus. It was supporters and a couple of local candidates. Good thing, too, or Secret Service SUVs would have been there. They pack mini-guns.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/1/2020 @ 5:36 pm

  35. Trump:

    In my opinion, these patriots did nothing wrong. Instead, the FBI & Justice should be investigating the terrorists, anarchists, and agitators of ANTIFA, who run around burning down our Democrat-run cities and hurting our people!

    Dana (6995e0) — 11/1/2020 @ 5:37 pm

  36. Joe Biden: When I’m elected, charter schools are gone!

    https://nypost.com/2020/08/02/joe-biden-presidency-would-be-a-disaster-for-our-schools-devine/

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/1/2020 @ 5:46 pm

  37. Protesters did chase Trump out of Chicago during the 2016 primaries.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/1/2020 @ 5:50 pm

  38. Dustin: I was hoping you’d take the opportunity to step up to the plate and condemn thugs no matter whose side they’re on, but oh well.
    Between this and your glee over NY Post getting banned on Twitter (which was just overturned btw), it’s obvious you don’t really care about fairness.

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/1/2020 @ 5:55 pm

  39. I’ll get in trouble with others at various blogs for sharing this, but damn the torpedoes:

    https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/how-we-heal

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/1/2020 @ 6:03 pm

  40. From Doug McIntyre at Facebook:

    HISTORY HAS ITS EYES ON US

    By Doug McIntyre

    90-million or more of us have already cast ballots for president. On Tuesday, the rest of the so-inclined will queue up at polling places or drop-boxes to toss in their 2-cents. I’ll be among them. Pandemic or no pandemic, I like voting in person. If I can risk death at Trader Joe’s for organic raspberries and whole bean French roast decaf, I’m willing to roll the dice on voting.

    Turnout is expected to be high; on target to eclipse 1908, the previous record-holder for voter participation. Biden versus Trump appears set to send more Americans to the polls than FDR versus Herbert Hoover, Truman versus Dewey, Eisenhower versus Stevenson, Kennedy/Nixon or any of the elections during periods of great turbulence, including the Vietnam War, the Civil Rights movement, Watergate and the election of the first African-American president. Why now? Why Trump v. Biden?

    Because it really does matter this time.

    Every election is sold as “the most important of our lifetime.” In truth, most elections are a push. Harrison versus Cleveland? Flip a coin. America has had a genius for keeping the political pendulum mostly in the center, with slight swings left or right. This election is different, offering not only a choice between two candidates with different personalities and policy objectives, but two men with different visions of what American is and should be, different standards for truth, morality and basic common decency.

    When the voting, shouting, tweeting and, God forbid, rioting is over, historians will begin the process of interpreting what “We the People” said with the votes we cast. If you want to look to the past for guidance, a good place to start is the infamous 1991 Governor’s race in Louisiana pitting the crooked former Democratic Governor, Edwin Edwards, against the avowedly racist Republican Ku Klux Klan leader, David Duke.

    Edwards unofficial slogan was, “Vote for the crook, it’s important!” 61-percent of Bayou-Staters agreed. The Edwards/Duke election remains the highest turnout for a governor’s race ever, with 80-pecent of registered voters going to the polls. The choice might have been rotten, but the good people of Louisiana understood history would remember which of the two evils they chose.

    Louisiana in 1991 is not a perfect analogy for today. Joe Biden is not a crook even if it turns out his son is. Donald Trump is not David Duke even if he gives more than a wink and a nod to Duke’s people. Still, the past is prologue. When it matters, Americans vote. 2020 matters greatly.

    If today’s polls are correct– and that’s a big if given the difficulty of polling Donald Trump supporters– we might know as early as Wednesday morning if we have a new president. However, if the polls are wrong again, it could be weeks or even months before endless lawsuits work their way through the state courts to the Supreme Court. How will we handle that? With riots and mayhem or patience and trust?

    Former Vice-President Biden has pledged to accept the results of the election. President Trump has pledged to accept the results if he likes the results. In the meantime, he continues to sow doubts about the integrity of the election system and will undoubtedly pour more gas on the fire should things not go his way next Tuesday.

    Will we take the bait? Will we swallow the memes and tweets and texts and allow our passions to destroy our faith in America’s imperfect-perfect system? Flaws and all, we’ve made it through wars foreign and civil, depressions and droughts, triumphs and tragedies.

    There have been close calls.

    In 1861, Abraham Lincoln had to be smuggled into Washington in disguise for his own inauguration. In 1877, former Confederates rearmed themselves intent on stopping Rutherford Hayes from taking the oath of office. In 2000, Vice President Al Gore spared us a genuine constitutional crisis by accepting the Supreme Court’s decision in “Bush v. Gore.” How we choose to behave post-Election Day in 2020 may be as crucial to the future of the country as the votes we cast on November 3rd.

    In Lin Manuel-Miranda’s masterwork, “Hamilton: An American Musical”, George Washington warns Alexander Hamilton, “History has its eyes on you.” History has its eyes of all of us. Will we rise to the occasion as Louisianans did when faced with two decidedly imperfect candidates in 1991? Or will we continue to tear each other apart in the Age of Rage with words or worse?

    Doug McIntyre’s column appears Sundays. He can be reached at: Doug@DougMcIntyre.com.

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/1/2020 @ 6:10 pm

  41. I35 is a major Texas road that is always very crowded. Every Texan has been on I35 at some point in their lives. Using a road like that to play political games is ludicrous, dangerous, and stupid. No matter who is at fault for insurance, shame on these Trump supporters for treating interstate driving like a game of political gotcha.

    DRJ (aede82) — 11/1/2020 @ 6:14 pm

  42. As usual, the Babylon Bee is the best news org out there right now.

    https://babylonbee.com/news/chelsea-handler-patrols-polling-places-to-make-sure-no-black-people-are-voting-for-trump

    https://babylonbee.com/news/democrat-just-handing-out-extra-ballots-to-trick-or-treaters

    https://babylonbee.com/news/business-owners-boarding-up-in-preparation-for-onslaught-of-peaceful-protests

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/1/2020 @ 6:35 pm

  43. 40. Heh! It’s not only generals who are always fighting the last war. Flushing a toilet is important but it’s not historic. It’s routine.

    What I think is that Trump knows he is going to be flushed and he is fighting to keep the turnout as low as possible so he won’t lose with a humiliating 60%-40% or even wider margin. That’s fine with me — Niagara, drip-drip-drip, or plunger, as long as he goes back to the sewer.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/1/2020 @ 6:40 pm

  44. Hands across America.

    Trump defends Texas drivers who surrounded Biden bus, while president’s supporters block traffic in New York and New Jersey.
    ….
    Then, on Sunday, caravans of President Trump’s supporters blockaded the Gov. Mario M. Cuomo Bridge and the Garden State Parkway, snarling traffic on two of the busiest highways in the New York metropolitan area just two days before Election Day.

    Videos taken by motorists showed the president’s backers parked in the middle of the westbound lanes of the bridge, which carries Interstate 287 across the Hudson River and is named for the father of the current governor, Andrew M. Cuomo.

    A number of them exited their vehicles in the rain and waved Trump banners and American flags as motorists honked their horns.

    The episode happened around midafternoon, with the caravan lining up on the interstate’s shoulder in Tarrytown before driving onto the span, which replaced the Tappan Zee Bridge and connects Rockland and Westchester counties.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/1/2020 @ 7:01 pm

  45. The media is reporting the FBI is investigating. Don’t know why as I believe there is no evidence of a federal crime. Who knows though as this might be just the thing the FBI can use in FISA warrant against someone in Trump’s circle. Pretty sure the Trump truck drivers were probably Russians.

    Hoi Polloi (66077a) — 11/1/2020 @ 7:04 pm

  46. Turnout is expected to be high; on target to eclipse 1908, the previous record-holder for voter participation

    I’ve read this a number of times.

    Why was turnout so high in 1908? There’s nothing about it that has come down. It was William Jennings Bryan third run for the White House (the others were 1896 and 1900) and (former, he resigned to run) Secretary of War William Howard Taft’s run for Theodire Rossevelt’s third term (personally selected by Theodore Roosevelt)

    Notghing interesting at all about it. The election of 1912 was surely more interesting.

    Now the percentage of eligible voters who voted went down starting in 1920, because of women;s suffrage, but why is 1908 so high? Or at least higher than 1912? Was it dropping in every election?

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/1/2020 @ 7:08 pm

  47. Some people did not want to be crucified on a cross of gold, Sammy. Bi-metalism was a major issue at that time, when our currency was still based on gold. Bigger than the stock markets and the commodities exchanges are today. It was also the major issue in the Cleveland-Gaines election that Patterico wrote about in the Mugwump post.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/1/2020 @ 7:24 pm

  48. Yikes! Cleveland vs. *Blaine* election, I mean.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/1/2020 @ 7:27 pm

  49. From one of the videos, I saw the white SUV closely following the campaign bus, and no other vehicles were nearby. I don’t believe the driver was all that interested in one lane or the other, he/she was just following the bus. I don’t know why the person was following like that, but my best guess was to provide a layer between the bus and the Trump Train vehicles.
    In another video, the campaign bus was straddling lanes, with the white SUV still behind but left-of-center. This probably gave the driver of the black Trump pickup an opening.
    I saw the Trump pickup moving forward rather quickly, almost alongside the white SUV, and then I saw the truck initiate contact. In my opinion, the driver of the truck had ill intent, and it appears he has a history of weaponizing his truck against his political enemies.
    As for forcing the bus to slow down and move over to the shoulder (assuming the news accounts are accurate), that’s inexcusable. A political campaign should be able to transit freely on public right-of-way unimpeded. Blocking and redirecting the transport of campaign vehicles is political intimidation and fascist, IMO. The Trumpers who were involved should stop being fascists.

    Paul Montagu (77c694) — 11/1/2020 @ 7:29 pm

  50. Pretty sure the Trump truck drivers were probably Russians.

    Trump prefers Poles.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/1/2020 @ 7:33 pm

  51. #43

    Trump is fighting the last war by trying to outwork and out rally Biden up until the bitter end.
    Not sure that approach will work this time unless his rallies manage to register new voters, grab some independents, and flip more Democrats than the polls show.
    Most voters have already voted by the time he rolls into town, so his crowds may reflect those that have already voted for him.

    steveg (43b7a5) — 11/1/2020 @ 7:45 pm

  52. Trump prefers Poles.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/1/2020 @ 7:33 pm

    And gentlemen prefer Hanes.
    But oooh! Another partisan hit piece by yet another out-of-touch, behind-the-times, long-past-its-sell-by-date, seldom-read-anymore newsmagazine full of coastal elitists. This changes everything!!

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/1/2020 @ 7:47 pm

  53. It was in the same spirit as Hoi Polloi’s comment, qdpsteve. You were doing fine with the soft-sell. Stick with it.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/1/2020 @ 7:58 pm

  54. Biden/Harris want more proles

    steveg (43b7a5) — 11/1/2020 @ 8:00 pm

  55. You were doing fine with the soft-sell. Stick with it.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/1/2020 @ 7:58 pm

    How’s this nk?

    https://tinaturnerblog.com/2012/12/10/tina-turner-hanes-its-all-about-strength-beauty/

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/1/2020 @ 8:03 pm

  56. It sure looks to me like the White vehicle is trying to push the black truck to the right in a game of chicken, and eventually the driver of the black truck has had enough.

    Even though both drivers are acting willfully, I’ll point out that either of them (and the black truck’s driver in particular) could have caused a much worse (and possibly fatal) accident had they wished to.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/1/2020 @ 8:19 pm

  57. Works for me, qdpsteve.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/1/2020 @ 8:25 pm

  58. As far as what the Trump supporters are doing:

    1) Lining the roads with flags is a fine political demonstration. It may cause some congestion, but so does a march.

    2) Escorting the Biden/Harris bus makes a statement about how unwelcome they find the Biden campaign. Again, barring violence — and we saw just one instance, instigated by the Biden side — this is also quite in line with the times. Beats the doors off of robbing the downtown jewelry district because a cop shot someone.

    3) This will change no minds. ‘A man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest.’

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/1/2020 @ 8:25 pm

  59. The charge seems to be that the Trumpers had vehicles in front of, behind and alongside the bus, boxing it in, and then reduced their speed greatly to prevent the bus from traveling at the speed limit.

    So? How is that different from crowds blocking cars in a demo?

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/1/2020 @ 8:28 pm

  60. I35 is a major Texas road that is always very crowded. Every Texan has been on I35 at some point in their lives. Using a road like that to play political games is ludicrous, dangerous, and stupid. No matter who is at fault for insurance, shame on these Trump supporters for treating interstate driving like a game of political gotcha.

    I drove that road many, many times between law school and home. And parts of it since, traveling between Bryan and family in Dallas and Fort Worth.

    We went past Waco during the Koresh standoff.

    We would sometimes follow military vehicles that we assumed were headed towards or from Ft. Hood.

    Patterico (115b1f) — 11/1/2020 @ 8:30 pm

  61. 59. Who said it’s different? It’s wrong when the Left does it, and it’s wrong when Trumpers do it. People who condemn either one while defending the other are kneejerk partisans nobody should take seriously.

    lurker (d8c5bc) — 11/1/2020 @ 8:37 pm

  62. So? How is that different from crowds blocking cars in a demo?

    KE=1/2mv^2

    Where:
    KE = kinetic energy
    m = mass of a body
    v = velocity of a body

    nk (1d9030) — 11/1/2020 @ 8:39 pm

  63. Don’t know why as I believe there is no evidence of a federal crime.

    It’s a flagrant, frankly easily proven federal offense. 42 USC 1985.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 11/1/2020 @ 8:54 pm

  64. Dustin: I was hoping you’d take the opportunity to step up to the plate and condemn thugs no matter whose side they’re on, but oh well.
    Between this and your glee over NY Post getting banned on Twitter (which was just overturned btw), it’s obvious you don’t really care about fairness.

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/1/2020 @ 5:55 pm

    You were changing the subject to defend the thugs. It doesn’t matter a bit to me that the thugs here were Trump fanatics and not left wing fanatics. I would see it the same way. I’ve never been OK with using our public roads to intimidate peaceful traffic.

    The NY Post story is not going to crush your kids in steel and glass like a car on the interstate would.

    Grow up and stop covering for pathetic bullies with big trucks and tiny dicks.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 11/1/2020 @ 8:57 pm

  65. So? How is that different from crowds blocking cars in a demo?

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/1/2020 @ 8:28 pm

    nk is right. It’s a different degree of risk.

    But I think crowds blocking intersections, especially the ones waving guns around, are unacceptable, because that too can (and has in Austin) led to harm. If you keep jumping out with your friends in front of people just trying to go somewhere, to intimidate them into supporting some cause, that’s not just speech, and eventually someone having a real bad day or trying to get someone to the hospital is not going to stop.

    I see Allen West put out the talking point that the idiots waving fake guns in their lawns make this behavior OK (or whatever his rambling was supposed to mean). It doesn’t. they were making a dumb, escalating decision from a mob (at best… I wasn’t there). The mob was going to protest down the street, so I think they were just panicked. But I can forgive panicking. They were just dumb.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 11/1/2020 @ 9:06 pm

  66. PDT is *still* going with rallies this evening.

    “Mr President, most people are tuckered out by 8pm with work and household responsibilities, yet you’re still going strong at 1am and beyond. How do you do it?”

    “I take speed!”

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/1/2020 @ 9:21 pm

  67. 49.

    From one of the videos, I saw the white SUV closely following the campaign bus, and no other vehicles were nearby. I don’t believe the driver was all that interested in one lane or the other, he/she was just following the bus.

    That’s how it looked to me.

    I don’t know why the person was following like that, but my best guess was to provide a layer between the bus and the Trump Train vehicles.

    I don’t know about that. You may be right. Or maybe the driver was freaked out by the pickups, and clung to the bus for “security,” in which case her behavior was oblivious and dangerous but without malign intent. Or maybe the driver was indeed road-raged, albeit a fecklessly passive-aggressive kind of road-rage compared to the Trumpalo who road-raged her like a proper a**hole. Any of those seems plausible to me from the videos.

    In another video, the campaign bus was straddling lanes, with the white SUV still behind but left-of-center. This probably gave the driver of the black Trump pickup an opening.
    I saw the Trump pickup moving forward rather quickly, almost alongside the white SUV, and then I saw the truck initiate contact. In my opinion, the driver of the truck had ill intent, and it appears he has a history of weaponizing his truck against his political enemies.

    Again I saw it the same way. And this is where I part ways with Patterico. I’ve seen my share of swerving out of control drivers, and this isn’t what they look like. That guy was pretty obviously in full control of his truck. It was pretty clear to me that he was acting as deliberately as he has since apparently admitted to.

    As for forcing the bus to slow down and move over to the shoulder (assuming the news accounts are accurate), that’s inexcusable.

    We don’t know that’s what happened, but I think it’s a fair inference from boxing in the bus. But even if the only goal was to be di*ks, doing it with highway speed vehicles is predictably if not deliberately intimidating. IMO that makes it a culpable incitement of nervous reactions by drivers of the bus and other targeted vehicles.

    lurker (d8c5bc) — 11/1/2020 @ 9:44 pm

  68. Escorting the Biden/Harris bus

    Do you really believe that is what they were doing? “Escorting” them?

    Dana (6995e0) — 11/1/2020 @ 9:45 pm

  69. Tomorrow King Donald will begin building fortifications around the White House:

    The White House on lockdown: A federal law enforcement source tells NBC that beginning tomorrow, crews will build a “non-scalable” fence to secure the WH complex, Ellipse and Lafayette Square.

    Dave (1bb933) — 11/1/2020 @ 9:49 pm

  70. Dave: in case you haven’t noticed, now is a dangerous time to be POTUS, no matter who he or she is.

    Plus it’s not like Trump can take the fortification with him when he leaves.

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/1/2020 @ 9:52 pm

  71. @70 It’s always been a dangerous time to be president. Several of them have gotten shot.

    But if Trump needs extra extra walls and extra extra guards to feel safe, that’s what he needs. Plus, he can always go down to the bunker and hide.

    Nic (896fdf) — 11/1/2020 @ 9:59 pm

  72. Nic, of course it’s always been dangerous but I think the argument can be made that the risk level has become even worse the last several years, what with the culture wars heating up so hot. And again, those fortifications will be there forever, not just for this president.

    qdpsteve (8d496a) — 11/1/2020 @ 10:02 pm

  73. Plus it’s not like Trump can take the fortification with him when he leaves.

    But I think the idea is not to leave.

    Dave (1bb933) — 11/1/2020 @ 10:10 pm

  74. Why didn’t the biden supporters in the bus shoot at the attackers? Oh! Thats right democrats are for gun control until they get shot!

    guns for the homeless (3975cf) — 11/1/2020 @ 10:12 pm

  75. @72 Yes, tensions are quite high right now, but they were very high in the 60s and very high in the 30s and very high in the late 1800s/early 1900s, and extremely very over the top high in the 1860s etc etc. I sympathize with the idea of presidents needing security, but I also have concerns about the president being separate and feeling separate from the people. I feel like it can lead to both paranoia and to feeling above the rabble. Our president is supposed to be one of the people, it’s why he lives in a house (granted, a very very nice house), not a palace.

    @74 It’s Texas, even the Dems have guns. And I don’t think that firing guns at people while everyone is driving at high speed on a freeway is particularly wise. Do you?

    Nic (896fdf) — 11/1/2020 @ 10:26 pm

  76. Baby parts harvesting is what fake christians on this site applaud

    mg (8cbc69) — 11/2/2020 @ 3:07 am

  77. This election is different, offering not only a choice between two candidates with different personalities and policy objectives, but two men with different visions of what American is and should be, different standards for truth, morality and basic common decency.

    Responding to that italicized part: Umm…no? Hell, no? Absolutely hell no?!

    Different standards for truth? Both men are inveterate liars.

    Different standards for morality? Both men are immoral crooks.

    Different standards for basic common decency? They seem far more alike to me than different. They both have no respect for women, and they both have a history of treating their opponents like enemies. Trump may be a bit more open about both, but in a twisted sort of way that almost works in his favor. He’s upfront and honest about being a boorish, caddish jerk. Creepy Uncle Joe mostly keeps it on the DL.

    The fact is that neither of these men has good, or even acceptable, character. Once upon a time, that would have made a difference, and we’d be seeing a very different race between two very different candidates. Now, as far as I’m concerned, we’re screwed either way.

    Demosthenes (d7fc81) — 11/2/2020 @ 3:17 am

  78. Hey, vote for the baby killers. Your choice.

    mg (8cbc69) — 11/2/2020 @ 4:00 am

  79. Biden is an average career politician, in terms of dishonesty and mediocrity.

    If you think he’s in the same league as Donald Trump when it comes to unfitness, you haven’t been paying attention for the last five years.

    Dave (1bb933) — 11/2/2020 @ 4:02 am

  80. Raising my special needs granddaughter, thoughts of you people voting for someone that would’ve loved to harvest her parts makes me sick.

    mg (8cbc69) — 11/2/2020 @ 4:02 am

  81. Raising my special needs granddaughter, thoughts of you people voting for someone that would’ve loved to harvest her parts makes me sick.

    Are you insane?

    Dave (1bb933) — 11/2/2020 @ 4:24 am

  82. Witnesses describe clash at Lee Circle between caravan of Trump supporters and a crowd of opponents (Richmond VA)

    Tempers flared Sunday as a “Trump train” of cars tried to pass Lee Circle along Monument Avenue and clashed with opposing protesters, drawing a police presence that blocked off the area to traffic.

    Witnesses said gunshots were fired during the encounter on Sunday afternoon two days before the presidential election, and one man showed a reporter a bullet hole in his car where it was parked on Monument Avenue near Lee Circle, which has been the site of racial justice protests for several months.

    Several other witnesses said one or more of the supporters of President Donald Trump in the train of cars was spraying chemical irritants at an opposing crowd that was trying to block the cars from passing. One man said he narrowly avoided being run over by jumping onto the hood of a car. Another man said he ducked just in time as someone fired a gun at him from a truck, after someone else had pulled a Trump flag off one of the vehicles.
    ………
    …..[W]itnesses said both sides were yelling at each other and hurling insults.
    ………
    Election fever, catch it!

    Rip Murdock (676dac) — 11/2/2020 @ 5:10 am

  83. If you think he’s in the same league as Donald Trump when it comes to unfitness, you haven’t been paying attention for the last five years.

    I hope that’s not the same endorsement you give all the candidates you vote for. “Vote for my guy! Possess is only a fraction of the criminality of his major opponent!”

    Your statement is, in any event, false. Biden has simply been much better at hiding his misdeeds than Trump, though not nearly good enough to keep a number of them from being uncovered in the last weeks of his presidential campaign. No matter, though. You will believe what you want to believe. And I am not at a stage in my life where I can spend much time on a fruitless charitable effort to debate the visual appearance of an elephant with, not the blind, but those who WILL not see.

    Demosthenes (d7fc81) — 11/2/2020 @ 5:12 am

  84. Heh. “Possesses.” This is what happens when you dictate a comment, rather than typing it properly.

    Demosthenes (d7fc81) — 11/2/2020 @ 5:13 am

  85. Biden’s Laptop Matters!

    Rip Murdock (676dac) — 11/2/2020 @ 5:13 am

  86. I don’t approve of the caravan either.

    Too many things can go wrong on the highway that can lead to fatal accidents. Just as I don’t approve of shutting down roads/bridges in protest. (like that Trump supporters shutting down that NY bridge…don’t do that).

    If we’re assigning blame, I blame BOTH the black truck driver and that white SUV.

    whembly (c30c83) — 11/2/2020 @ 5:20 am

  87. @85 It does!

    whembly (c30c83) — 11/2/2020 @ 5:21 am

  88. Man thought people were stealing Donald Trump signs; three shot
    Three people were shot late Saturday in North Topeka after a man confronted people he thought had committed past thefts of signs promoting the campaign of Republican Presidential incumbent Donald Trump, a Topeka police supervisor said Sunday.
    ……..

    Rip Murdock (676dac) — 11/2/2020 @ 5:37 am

  89. @87-
    Just kidding!

    Rip Murdock (676dac) — 11/2/2020 @ 5:37 am

  90. This entire incident is the msm and public reaction in a nutshell, and as far I can tell you didn’t even discuss how Jake Tapper soiled himself over it.

    20 years ago this idiocy doesn’t even make the news, now it’s just the daily incident to be mis-reported to drive a pre-determined narrative and it’s being broken down like the Zapruder film.

    How long it will last (In the media cycle) is determined by which side looks bad based on the evidence, depend on it.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9) — 11/2/2020 @ 6:07 am

  91. Narrative always supersedes facts in this sorry world of ours.

    Simon Jester (e3f3a5) — 11/2/2020 @ 6:13 am

  92. I blame science and technology. In the natural order of things, Texas hooligans would not be driving pickup trucks at 75 mph on paved superhighways, they’d be slogging through cholla and mesquite, and if they jostled some strangers no one would hear of it except by word of mouth.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/2/2020 @ 6:40 am

  93. Different standards for truth? Both men are inveterate liars.
    Different standards for morality? Both men are immoral crooks.

    Splinter-log. Biden’s lies and immorality are a creek you can step across, and Trump’s are Niagra Falls. And that’s the real problem. Trump still thinks he can lie about a virus all the way to victory.

    Paul Montagu (77c694) — 11/2/2020 @ 6:43 am

  94. It is hilarious that this political caravan nuttery is being dissected like a historic event.

    That data from Delaware would be getting the same treatment wall-to-wall but it belongs to the wrong candidate’s kid.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9) — 11/2/2020 @ 7:09 am


  95. Maggie Haberman
    @maggieNYT
    ·
    The president is laughing out loud at his campaign video splicing together clips of Biden’s verbal stumbles, playing at his rally in GA.
    __ _

    Stephen L. Miller
    @redsteeze
    ·
    Biden has had 7 Covfefe moments in 3 days but “Verbal Stumbles”

    My god it’s like the Obama years all over again except this time they are Visiting Angels.
    __ _

    harkin (7fb4c9) — 11/2/2020 @ 7:16 am

  96. If one of them is Biden saying “Hello, Minnesota!” in Florida, it’s fake.

    Which should be a given. Everything from Trump is fake.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/2/2020 @ 7:21 am

  97. harkin —

    That data from Delaware might get some attention if anyone believed it really came from Delaware.

    Appalled (1a17de) — 11/2/2020 @ 7:25 am

  98. As for the media not discussing Hunter Biden’s laptop, they’re also not discussing that Homeland Security is using the disappeared Central American children to produce adrenochrome for the Queen of England, so it’s kind of a wash, I think.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/2/2020 @ 7:28 am

  99. That data from Delaware might get some attention if anyone believed it really came from Delaware.

    Yes, for some reason they only know, sources seem to matter the #FakeNewsMedia.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/2/2020 @ 7:30 am

  100. Paul Montagu (77c694) — 11/2/2020 @ 6:43 am

    Biden’s lies and immorality are a creek you can step across, and Trump’s are Niagra Falls

    They’re a “creek” you can step across while acting morally outraged at people with a different opinion.

    frosty (f27e97) — 11/2/2020 @ 7:58 am

  101. #100 — Is it fair to assume you feel Biden has a Niagra flow of corruption?

    Appalled (1a17de) — 11/2/2020 @ 8:11 am

  102. I have to say, for a guy who had to hire actors to pretend to be his supporters when he announced that he was running for President (you know he did, you know he did, you know he did), all these True Trumpers who crawled out of the woodwork to mindlessly cheer him everywhere has got to be giving him orgasms now.

    nk (1d9030) — 11/2/2020 @ 8:24 am

  103. 97. Appalled (1a17de) — 11/2/2020 @ 7:25 am

    That data from Delaware might get some attention if anyone believed it really came from Delaware.

    It did come from Delaware, although the New York Times isn’t quite ready to say that it did (it also will not repeat specific allegations in connection with China.)

    It will only go so far:

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/30/us/hunter-biden-joe-biden-relationship.html

    Some of the attacks are unfounded, but the facts of Hunter Biden’s troubled life have provided the president with ample fodder. Hunter Biden took a highly paid position with a Ukrainian oligarch regarded by the United States as corrupt, and later acknowledged he most likely got the job because his father was overseeing U.S. policy in the country at the time. He went into business with a number of partners who have subsequently been convicted of unrelated crimes. And his struggles with addiction have contributed to the less admirable lines on his résumé, including his abrupt departure from the Navy Reserve in 2014.

    There’s also some other material, less sure.

    The real problem with the Delaware laptop is how the contents are being used. It is being used to say the equivalent of saying something like 2+2=11.

    The most you can draw out of this, and related facts, is like what the New York Post said on an editorial today:

    https://nypost.com/2020/11/01/how-joe-biden-clearly-benefited-from-biden-family-business

    ou’re not supposed to care about the Hunter Biden scandals because Joe Biden argues he never profited from his son’s and brother’s plans. “I have not taken a penny from any foreign source ever in my life,” the former veep claimed in the last debate.

    Yet Joe plainly did benefit — and he’d have to be an utter idiot not to notice the signs of sleaze over the decades that these family members cashed in on his name and connections.

    Heck, in a July 2019 New Yorker piece based on extensive interviews with Hunter, Adam Entous reported, “Hunter saw himself as a provider for the Biden family; he even helped to pay off [brother] Beau’s law-school debts.” Even if Joe never directly received a dime from all the folks who made his brother and son rich, he without doubt benefited indirectly.

    And, yes: Jim and Hunter without question made their money by trading on their influence with Joe: that’s obvious from investigations over the years by ProPublica, Politico and other left-of-center outfits, not to mention reporting by Peter Schweizer, The Wall Street Journal and The Post, as well as Entous’ New Yorker piece. Even Hunter has admitted that he “probably” wouldn’t have gotten that multimillion-dollar payoff from Burisma if his last name weren’t Biden.

    But Joe Biden doesn’t want to hear about it…

    So maybe the 10 percent of that China deal that Hunter was to hold for “the big guy,” and which later got put down as going to Jim Biden, was never meant to be a direct payment for the former vice president. [Perhaps even they were lying to the Chinese -SF]

    Perhaps “Biden family business” like that deal — which did clear Hunter $5 million, even if the ongoing enterprise fell through — simply enriches the whole Biden family, with Joe carefully not thinking about exactly where money that his brother and son pass along comes from.

    All of which makes Joe’s farewell words to Tony Bobulinski pretty telling: “Keep an eye on my son and brother and look out for my family.”

    [that they don’t get themselves into legal trouble, and that Hunter Biden doesn’t get harmed by drugs. But Joe Biden’s brother James, and Biden’s son Hunter, cut Tony Bobulinski out of the deal before it fell through. – SF]

    Where the money comes from? Joe doesn’t want anyone to think about it — himself included.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/2/2020 @ 8:31 am

  104. The reason Joe Biden is running so scared is probably because he’s afraid of new revelations that could lower his vote percentage – either about his knowledge of what Hunter was doing, (in his defense, he could have been trying to prevent his son from becoming desperate for money and then committing crimes or suicide) or about efforts to prevent the approval of any vaccine or treatment for coronavirus.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/2/2020 @ 8:37 am

  105. 73. Dave (1bb933) — 11/1/2020 @ 10:10 pm

    But I think the idea is not to leave.

    This is like saying 2=3.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/2/2020 @ 8:38 am

  106. Sammy,

    Given the involvement of Giuliani and Bannon and the utter implausibility of the story, my guess that this laptop is just a vehicle to deliver up info the Russians hacked. It’s probable that pieces of the info are fake.

    Why would HB deliver a laptop to some obscure guy in Delaware and forget to pick it up? He lives in California.

    Appalled (1a17de) — 11/2/2020 @ 8:44 am

  107. It is hilarious that this political caravan nuttery is being dissected like a historic event.

    I don’t think that event is hilarious, and I think it’s rather obvious such a flagrant effort to stop a campaign from competing in a state that used to be safe for Team R is indeed historic. That one will go in history books after all.

    Trump’s most devoted fan will not agree, but only because paying attention to this serious event is inconvenient to his boy Trump.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 11/2/2020 @ 8:44 am

  108. They’re a “creek” you can step across while acting morally outraged at people with a different opinion.

    Nah, unlike too many adoring unquestioning Trump followers, there’s one standard. Biden’s lies and Trump’s lies don’t compare. Aside from failing from to attribute his sources, I have yet to hear about a real scandal or corruption involving Biden during his time as Senator or VP. Trump has been a constant stream of corruption starting in his first months in office.

    Paul Montagu (77c694) — 11/2/2020 @ 8:55 am

  109. though not nearly good enough to keep a number of them from being uncovered in the last weeks of his presidential campaign.

    I guess Biden’s no saint, but this is absurd, demosthenes. Just absurd. We all knew what Trump’s dumb october surprise was. It’s hardly an uncovering of information about him. It’s a scam.

    Dustin (4237e0) — 11/2/2020 @ 9:04 am

  110. I think Nathan Phillips was driving the white SUV and Nick Sandermann was operating the black pick-up.

    Pouncer (b0e023) — 11/2/2020 @ 9:48 am

  111. Appalled (1a17de) — 11/2/2020 @ 8:11 am

    #100 — Is it fair to assume you feel Biden has a Niagra flow of corruption?

    The entire analogy is flawed and it’s designed to allow Montagu to simply assert the moral high ground.

    It’s got vivid imagry going for it so there’s that. If you’re pushing a candidate for POTUS who’s son is under investigation by the FBI, has links to Chinese intelligence, and has a history full of opportunities for blackmail vivid imagry might be all you’ve got. Vivid imagry probably won’t help if you’re best response to that is Hunter isn’t running for POTUS, implying that Joe won’t cut his son any favors, and it certainly isn’t the moral high ground.

    When creative analogies fail you can always just stick your fingers in your ears and yell loudly that you can’t hear about any corruption.

    frosty (f27e97) — 11/2/2020 @ 10:19 am

  112. It is so close to the election, so folks get a little absurd. One of the candidates had a quarter million Americans die on his watch, praised the most evil men on the planet, screwed with the justice process at every turn, installed dumb kids nepotistically in critical positions, takes no responsibility, and will certainly be rejected by most voters (as he always has been).

    The other is a democrat. ooga booga

    Dustin (4237e0) — 11/2/2020 @ 10:26 am

  113. The entire analogy is flawed and it’s designed to allow Montagu to simply assert the moral high ground.

    Assert? I do have the moral high ground. The question is, in their unceasing efforts to defend political sm-gma, why are so many loyalists abdicating it? No one’s asking for a saint, but there’s no comparison between Biden and Trump when it comes to corruption and dishonesty. At what threshold will his fervent admirers look at all lies and corruption and say, “nope, that’s just too much, can’t vote for him”?

    Paul Montagu (77c694) — 11/2/2020 @ 10:26 am

  114. At what threshold will his fervent admirers look at all lies and corruption and say, “nope, that’s just too much, can’t vote for him”?

    What a ridiculous question…

    Dave (1bb933) — 11/2/2020 @ 10:34 am

  115. At what threshold will his fervent admirers look at all lies and corruption and say, “nope, that’s just too much, can’t vote for him”?

    Some of the most revealing Trump actions might be seen as relatively unimportant on the surface.

    1. The Sharpie loop on the hurricane forecast map — which told us that he would rather peddle a ridiculous lie than ever admit he was mistaken in any detail.

    2. The absurd photo-op pose holding up a Bible in front of a church that he didn’t go inside — which illustrated that he views religion as just a political tool, and that his religious supporters either don’t care or are bamboozled by it. (And that’s not even getting into the forcible clearing of Lafayette Square.)

    3. His openly, proudly self-serving reason for wanting to keep an incompetent staffer on the public payroll.

    4. Telling supporters they should beat up hecklers and he would pay their legal bills (an empty promise, of course), and instructing Border Patrol to take illegal actions and he would pardon them — revealing a belief that the will of Donald Trump supersedes any actual law.

    On so on and on. He regularly shows us who he is and how he thinks, and then the Trumpists all say that anyone who notices is just blinded by hate. Even though many people who have watched him up close say he’s actually worse than he appears in public.

    “Oh, but he’s right on policy,” the Trumpists say. But to the extent he is on some issues, he poisons those policies in the public mind by stamping them with the face of self-centered callousness and casual bigotry. So people understandably think: “These conservative policies are what a greedy, heartless egomaniac and congenital liar prefers.”

    Another person could make a good argument for tighter border control and more careful vetting of who gets to join us as guests or eventually as citizens, but Trump frames it as “We don’t want any more of those people,” and, “There’s a lot of great (Nordic) blood in Minnesota, and we need to keep out people from one of those (blankety-blank) African countries!”

    Aside from his “We win, you lose” style of patriotism, and his vacuous claims to care about American workers, Trump himself makes his policies appear to be rooted in ugly motives. And voters have ample reason to fear that he would be callous and self-serving and contemptuous of legal restraints

    Radegunda (20775b) — 11/2/2020 @ 11:03 am

  116. Patterico — I realized that this wasn’t supposed to be an open thread, and I should have resisted the impulse to post a long comment on another topic. It’s just all so tiresome.
    I won’t comment on the freeway incident since I haven’t done a deep study of it.

    Radegunda (20775b) — 11/2/2020 @ 11:07 am

  117. The missing video information (and wow, the person who shot the main video has a major talent for pointing the wrong way at JUST the wrong time) is “who hit first?”

    If the Biden volunteer drivien white SUV hit the truck, and the truck driver responded by hitting back until the Biden SUV was no longer invading his lane, I have no problem with that.

    If the black truck driver simply decided “this jerk is too close”, and started bashing the white SUV “to get it out of his lane”, then his actions were criminal, and wrong, and I do have a problem with that.

    Given that the black truck driver was legally in his lane (other than the tailgating of the bus), and the white SUV was not, I think the benefit of the doubt has to go to the black truck driver.

    Greg Quark (9f2b96) — 11/2/2020 @ 1:25 pm

  118. 67 & 49:
    “I saw the Trump pickup moving forward rather quickly, almost alongside the white SUV, and then I saw the truck initiate contact”

    Do you have a link for that?

    Which is to say: do you have a video that continuously shows the two vehicles driving next to each other, and then the black truck swerve to the left and hit the white SUV?

    No? Then you’re lying, which makes everything else you said worthless.

    Here’s the deal: when you’re driving illegally, you give up your “right of way”. Between dangerously tailgating the bus and swerving in between lanes, the white SUV forfeited its right of way. So there was nothing wrong with the black truck pulling up next to it. (There was something wrong with the black truck following the bus so close, but the impact location on the SUV clearly proves that the SUV was tailgating even more than the truck, so that’s not going to save you.)

    The Biden SUV driver should have gotten out of the black truck’s lane, and stayed out. They didn’t. THAT was the proximate cause of the crash.

    Unless you have continuous video clearly showing multiple seconds of the two cars driving next to each other, and then the black truck slamming into the white SUV, it’s the white SUV that is most in the wrong

    Greg Quark (9f2b96) — 11/2/2020 @ 1:36 pm

  119. Good comment, Radegunda 115.

    DRJ (aede82) — 11/2/2020 @ 3:24 pm

  120. If the Trump drivers were attempting to box in the bus, I think that would be reckless driving under Section 545.041 of the Texas Transportation Code. Intentionally hitting another vehicle could be assault or aggravated assault under Texas Penal Code 22.01 et seq.

    DRJ (aede82) — 11/2/2020 @ 3:51 pm

  121. >> If the Trump drivers were attempting to box in the bus, I think that would be reckless driving under Section 545.041 of the Texas Transportation Code.

    Yep. But since all but maybe 1 of the cars was to the side or behind, what we have here is people engaging in clearly 1st Amendment protected speech

    >> Intentionally hitting another vehicle could be assault or aggravated assault under Texas Penal Code 22.01 et seq.

    Yep. And it seems likely that the white SUV driver was the one who started that “game”.

    Which could explain WHY the white SUV driver isn’t cooperating with the police investigating the collision

    Greg Quark (867298) — 11/2/2020 @ 6:59 pm

  122. Hollywood flash!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEgygl5PO3wng Kong

    Hunter Biden & Joe Biden star in this classic remake, financed by China and filmed entirely on location– in Hong Kong.

    “They always pay us plenty for teamwork!”

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 11/2/2020 @ 7:18 pm

  123. @119 – thanks, DRJ.

    Radegunda (20775b) — 11/2/2020 @ 8:28 pm

  124. 59. Who said it’s different? It’s wrong when the Left does it, and it’s wrong when Trumpers do it. People who condemn either one while defending the other are kneejerk partisans nobody should take seriously.

    I can decry the courseness of our politics, and if I complain when one side (repeatedly) does X, I am not obligated to complain when they get it returned. In fact, I see no problem — and no partisanship — in laughing when they complain about the tables being turned.

    Kind of like the Senate and judges.

    Kevin M (ab1c11) — 11/3/2020 @ 12:11 am

  125. No, Mr. Quark. Driving a vehicle isn’t speech. Further, there is no assault “game.” Intentionally contacting/touching another can be assault. The only contact between any vehicles occurred when the black truck hit the white car, and the truck driver’s post indicates he did it intentionally.

    DRJ (46c88f) — 11/3/2020 @ 6:42 am

  126. I didn’t study this. but the whole thing looks like something that is similar to what happened in other places

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/3/2020 @ 11:12 am

  127. Appalled (1a17de) — 11/2/2020 @ 8:44 am

    Given the involvement of Giuliani

    Guliani was called by the computer repairman because he heard him speaking on the radio and ecause Giuliani had a reputation for being interested in this sort of thing. And he hadn;t heard back from anybody. He had tried to contact members of Congress and he had contacted the FBI in November or December. There was what to all appearances was a genuine subpoena dated last December (2019).

    He contacted Giuliani only in August, 2020. The election of course, was probably a factor.

    and Bannon

    Giuliani brought in Bannon, to help him understand the China material and Bannon came up with outlandish interpretations of some material that came from the files. Torturing some words out of all recognition.

    Bannon also leaked it abit and contacted the New York Post.

    and the utter implausibility of the story,

    Actually it;s perfectly plausible. unter was a wreck and was straightening out his life.

    e took three computers to the shop. They all probably had nearly identical files on them, synchronized with his icloud account.

    One had a damaged motherboaed. Apple had designed things so that nothing could be done about it. He handed it back.

    The second one only had a problem with its keyboard. He lent Hunter a replacement keyboard and cord.

    The third one he could recover the files from but not make bootable. He told Hunter to bring in an external hard drive and he would put the files on it.

    He slowly cpied the files onto his own computer.

    Hunter returned with a drive. In between his father had officially started his presidentiial campaign.

    The repairman put the files on the drive.

    After that Hunter was unreachabke, He had moved to Caiifornia and married a woman.

    Toward July he examined the hard drive. He found many explicit pictures and talk of deals.

    my guess that this laptop is just a vehicle to deliver up info the Russians hacked. It’s probable that pieces of the info are fake.

    Not hacked at all. Nothing is fake – except the deductions that Steve Bannon probably made.

    Why would HB deliver a laptop to some obscure guy in Delaware and forget to pick it up? He lives in California.

    He didn’t need it. It was all duplicates. Between the time he left the drive and later he moved from Delaware to California.

    Sammy Finkelman (125d6f) — 11/3/2020 @ 11:33 am

  128. Do you have a link for that?
    Which is to say: do you have a video that continuously shows the two vehicles driving next to each other, and then the black truck swerve to the left and hit the white SUV?
    No? Then you’re lying, which makes everything else you said worthless.

    I saw video and photos on a Twitter thread, and you can see them for yourself. This Cisneros nutcase was on the shoulder, waiting for the campaign bus to go by, and then he went into traffic, so he had to have to driven up to the white SUV. The video here, starting at the 1:20 mark, shows it. The white SUV was tailing the bus the whole time, changing lanes with the bus, and Cisneros didn’t yield.
    I wouldn’t be so trigger-happy about calling people liars, bub.

    Paul Montagu (b55514) — 11/3/2020 @ 12:48 pm

  129. Yeah, IH 35 is a major super highway in Texas. It’s got four lanes on both sides of the medium. You can leave Edinburg or McAllen and get to San Antonio or Austin in three or four hours, now that the speed limit is 70 mph. The highway bypasses the small towns in between, so you don’t have to slow down.

    Back in the day, it wasn’t like that. The main highway then was 281. The speed limit was 55 mph, and you had to slow down to 30 mph in Falfurias, George Town, Three Rivers, etc. It took at least six hours to get from Edinburg to San Antonio. I know because I drove that route many a time to visit my grandparents or go to a rock concert.

    It appears this bus and accompanying cars of Biden staffers and supporters were travelling from San Antonio to Austin. IH 35 allows them to not go through New Braunfels and San Marcos in between, but they still had to bypass them.

    Hey, man, New Braunfels is KKK country. The Klan holds marches on the streets to this day.

    In fact, Race Horse Haines first major case involved a white cop shooting a black criminal in Houston. He called for a change of venue and had the trial transferred to New Braunfels, then stocked the jury with KKK members. Only one would suffice. A white cop shooting a black criminal? Not guilty.

    That case made his career as a defense attorney. He later got T. Cullen Davis off for killing his ex-wife, by calling to a change of venue from Dallas to a city where Davis owned several factories that employed 60% of the population. They weren’t going to convict him. Not guilty. He also got Davis off for hiring a hit man to assassinate the judge in his divorce trial. Again by calling for a change of venue. Even with videotape evidence, the verdict was not guilty.

    Racehorse Haines, the most famous defense attorney in Texas history. If you committed a crime and needed a defense attorney, you called him. When Davis was arrested for hiring a hitman to assassinate a judge, with overwhelming evidence against him, Haines’s assistants asked him what he was going to do. He said, “I’m going to buy a bigger boat.” Racehorse Haines was one of kind. Corrupt to the core to be sure, but he knew how to work the judicial system. Hollywood made movies about him.

    Trump doesn’t need another Roy Cohen, he needs another Racehorse Haines.

    Anyway, these Trump supporters that tried to box in the Biden bus were from New Braunfels, right? I think both drivers were at fault in this incident, but I have no doubt the Trump cultists are more to blame. They were using a highway to disrupt the peaceful transit from one city to another and prevent campaign events. That alone is a felony, but the San Marcos PD would not make that determination.

    That said, do you know what the most dangerous stretch of highway is in Texas? It’s 83, between McAllen and Harlingen. There are more accidents and fatalities along that stretch of road than on any other in Texas every year. You know why? Because people driving to work in the morning are blinded by the sun from the East, and people driving home after work are blinded by the sun from the West.

    I’ve driven that highway many times as well. It’s the most dangerous stretch of highway in the state. And I got to tell you, that sun in your face is blinding. Lowering the visor or even wearing sunglasses doesn’t help much. You have to drive very carefully, or stay off the deadly highway and take the safer backroads.

    But this is not that. This is vehicular assault on a political campaign. And it is inexcusable.

    Gawain's Ghost (b25cd1) — 11/5/2020 @ 1:04 am


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