Patterico's Pontifications

10/28/2020

But Shouldn’t People Who Despise Social Justice Warrior Insanity Vote for Trump? Turns Out No

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



A symposium titled Why 14 Critics of “Social Justice” Think You Shouldn’t Vote Trump introduces itself in this way:

This collection of statements from vocal critics of Critical Social Justice who believe that a vote for Donald Trump is a mistake is not intended to convince die-hard Trumpists. It is an appeal to reluctant Trump voters and to those who remain undecided. It is specifically addressed to people who value science, reason, tolerance and individual liberty but fear Critical Social Justice’s assaults on these so much that they see Trump as the only solution. These are people who fear that a vote for the Democrats will enable a cultural revolution that will harm all Americans—people who want to make America a better place for everyone and believe that voting Trump will at least prevent it from becoming a worse one.

The contributors below think this position is misguided. We come from all over the political spectrum and disagree with each other on many things. However, we are united in believing that a vote for Trump will not make America great.

As with Kevin Williamson’s broadside yesterday, you should read it all. Here are some choice excerpts to whet your appetite.

Thomas Chatterton Williams:

It is tempting but misguided to believe that either the populist right or the woke left can achieve a total victory. On the contrary, the two feed off of and exacerbate each other. A vote for Trump, despite his anti-Critical Race Theory bluster, is in fact a vote to empower the worst progressive excesses. A vote to strengthen the besieged center, however dissatisfying to either extreme, is the only way forward for Americans of good will searching for ways to overcome the crippling polarization that plagues us.

Conor Friedersdorf:

During the last four years, I’ve repeatedly critiqued instances of illiberalism and identitarianism on the left. On every occasion, my efforts to reach my fellow Americans and to persuade them to rein in excesses on the left was made more difficult and impeded by the fact that the leader of America’s right-leaning coalition is himself flagrantly illiberal and prone to indulging in white identity politics. President Trump seems to bring out the worst in people. I expect that once he leaves office, whether in 2021 or 2025, both the Republican and Democratic coalitions will improve.

Walter Olson:

I’d call Trumpism the evil twin of the worst social justice zealotry, except that both twins are evil. Trump sees all relations in terms of power, dominance, resentment and submission, rather than persuasion. His signature move is to delegitimize and trash every institution and person that stands between him and power. He speaks and acts as if facts, history and scientific truths were purely contingent, infinitely malleable, and in the end a matter of the say-so of the strong-willed. Sound familiar? He changes his line often and always denies that it has changed.

He presents the press as the enemy of the people, the democratic process as fixed, and civic hope as the delusion of the ever-exploited sucker class.

. . . .

Donald Trump does his best to recruit a bully corps on his own side, but he’s an even better recruiter for the bullies on the other side.

At some point it stops making sense to ask who’s chasing whom: it’s the same carousel with the same horses. The only answer is to jump off altogether. Get a president who’s not like this.

Sarah Haider, Cathy Young, the dreaded Tom Nichols, Steven Pinker, and others weigh in. Read it all.

106 Responses to “But Shouldn’t People Who Despise Social Justice Warrior Insanity Vote for Trump? Turns Out No”

  1. Good stuff.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. I’d sincerely like to see whembly’s comments here.

    Appalled (1a17de)

  3. On the contrary, the two feed off of and exacerbate each other. A vote for Trump, despite his anti-Critical Race Theory bluster, is in fact a vote to empower the worst progressive excesses.

    Exactly. This kind of argument must get a wider audience. Most of us have had this thought, but need to really think and discuss it. Understanding this ‘he fights’ fallacy is critical to getting our country back.

    We’ve got to have a little more faith in those who disagree with us. most of the democrats aren’t child molesters in pizza parlors and most of the republicans are not burning crosses in anyone’s lawn.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  4. I did read it all, Patterico. Thank you for posting it. Much to think about and consider.

    But I have to say that I decidedly do not agree with their theses. For many people, voting for DJT was a reaction against the Left’s excesses. Those votes were not based on his person or policies. And since I am a college professor, I am MUCH closer to those progressive excesses than most people. You would not believe the kinds of things going on, every day.

    For example, in Oregon:

    https://www.thefire.org/investigation-portlands-lewis-clark-college-mandates-racial-segregation-in-orientation-programming/

    Note what the administration said in response.

    I cannot and will not vote for DJT. But I will not delude myself into thinking that voting for DJT empowers the progressive causes described. That is so topsy turvy I have trouble taking it in. And that’s not simply based on my reactions…it is based on my personal experience in academia for decades. I think that many people—me, too—sculpt reality based on their wishes. But I have been punched in the nose repeatedly in academia, and I am here to tell you: the only thing that will slow this nonsense on campus, which is now bleeding into society as a whole, will be lawsuits and legislation. And I doubt very, very much that President Harris (I mean, Biden) is interested in such a position.

    All that is necessary for the authors of that piece is to say—as I do—that they do not care for DJT’s style, his person, his friends, and many of his policies. As I have stated before, even modest changes in DTJ’s style would make him a slam dunk. But these are his choices.

    Getting back to the essayists. No need to put such…odd…icing on a unfortunate cake.

    Simon Jester (545ea7)

  5. Great article and a useful contrast to Lowery’s conclusion that Trump voters are just saying FU to people they dislike.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  6. Two things are certain:

    1) The SJW movement won’t abate one iota after a couple of years of Biden.
    2) We won’t hear an admission from any of these critics that they were wrong.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  7. Heh!

    But I have to say that I decidedly do not agree with their theses.

    #MeToo! On the level of distastefulness, SJW-ness and all its splinters and variants is a warm beer, and Trump is an unflushed toilet. At Comiskey Park. At the end of a double-header. Against the Brewers.

    nk (1d9030)

  8. And Mona Charen.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  9. I think this feedback is ultimately misguided. The idea that voting for Trump will somehow make the left become worse is incorrect. The left is already routinely censoring and destroying those they oppose. It doesn’t matter if those on the right are forthright and inoffensive or not. The left will destroy all outside of it equally.

    Thus the only valid response to the left is to make it pay for such transgressions, both via ridicule and by dismantling the financial and legal incentives they have built for themselves. Trump does this, his ridicule of the left creates space for those on the right to operate at a normal, congenial level. Without it the most inoffensive people on the right, like Romney, are shouted down as sexist racists.

    It’s clear that there is no means for the average normal conservative to push back on the left aside from supporting DJT for president. You may not like him, you may think he is brash and uncouth, but until the left suffers consequences for their hate and corruption they will never stop escalating. DJT is currently our only means to go after the corruption, and the only way to push back on the social pressure.

    This idea that the left is reacting to Trump is in error. The only thing they are reacting to is not getting their way. It doesn’t matter if it’s Trump, Romney, McCain etc. Anyone who opposed the left is instantly demonized. The individual in question will continue to be demonized unless they acquiesce to leftist demands like John Roberts.

    Mark G. (03990d)

  10. This is a textbook argument for appeasement. Just give them the Presidency back and they’ll stop making our life hell.

    Amerigo Chattin (3d7b37)

  11. 9 & 10 both assume that ‘the left’ is monolithic and defined by it’s most obnoxious extreme. Both also ignore that Biden (a center left candidate) winning the nomination is a rebuke to the extremism they oppose.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  12. Thomas Chatterton Williams: “Why didn’t we heed the ice reports?”

    Conor Friedersdorf: “I argued for years w/t Board of Trade for more lifeboats.”

    Walter Olson: “Steamship steerage is sucker class.”

    Mona Charen: “Ice freezes and floats. Who knew?!”

    Mastering irrelevancy; you’ve struck the berg and have been sunk.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  13. Mark G.

    You think the left reacts to Trump exactly like they would to McCain, that Trump will fight corruption, that the problem is he’s “brash” and “uncouth”? You’re living in a bubble. You’ve no idea what most people think, or what Trump actually is.

    He’ll fight corruption? He’s the living embodiment of corruption, the poster boy for conflict of interest, the sultan of self dealing.

    Victor (00af29)

  14. @13, I think he meant that wokism was a form of cultural corruption…

    Time123 (b4d075)

  15. until the left suffers

    OK Mark. Spare the rod ‘eh?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  16. He’s the living embodiment of corruption, the poster boy for conflict of interest, the sultan of self dealing.

    Shorter: a capitalist.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  17. Simon, great post.

    B & P, Mark G, Amerigas, nice follow ups. Sanity still to be found.
    __ _

    Abigail Marone 🇺🇸
    @abigailmarone
    ·
    Jack Dorsey of Twitter just told Senator Cruz that anyone could now share the NY Post’s bombshell stories on Twitter.

    Dorsey is lying.

    Twitter is STILL blocking the URL for the NY Post story about the Biden’s foreign corruption & China dealings.
    __ _

    Ben Domenech
    @bdomenech
    ·
    Wouldn’t be the first time @jack lied under oath to Congress.
    __ _

    RNC Research
    @RNCResearch
    ·
    @CoryGardner calls out Twitter for flagging tweets from the president, and not flagging the Iranian Ayatollah’s tweets denying the Holocaust

    https://youtu.be/XTFEmvwjT68
    __ _

    Mediate – Jack Dorsey Defends Allowing Iranian Threats to Eliminate ‘Cancerous’ Jews: ‘Respecting Their Right to Speak’

    https://www.mediaite.com/news/jack-dorsey-defends-allowing-iranian-threats-to-eliminate-cancerous-jews-respecting-their-right-to-speak/amp/
    _

    There are people who call themselves ‘Conservative’ who think this double standard is just a reaction to Trump.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  18. Time123 (d1bf33) — 10/28/2020 @ 9:29 am

    This is wishful thinking by people near the center left who really want to convince themselves that the center of gravity for the party is still near the center. I think people in this position are only an election or so away from being NeverHarris.

    What exactly does it mean to ‘rebuke the extremism’ anyway? Biden is slowly moving left, or you have to believe he’s lying just to get votes, and the left of the party very clearly thinks they are ascending. If he’s lying to get votes then which way is he lying? If it’s to get votes to the left of him then they aren’t really rebuked. If it’s to get votes to the right of him you’ve got the same problem.

    There’s also people who, maybe, just don’t listen to Biden. In the recent interview when asked about court packing he made comments that the center thinks are anti-court packing. That is not what he said. He said court packing was just one option and he wanted to look at options to reform the entire federal judicary. His actual position is more extreme than just court packing. He volunteered the comment about fracking, and it wasn’t just fracking. He said phase out all fossil fuels and shutdown the oil industry. Somehow, people hear his statements and think this guy is the same old center D from the days of old.

    frosty (f27e97)

  19. 9 & 10 both assume that ‘the left’ is monolithic and defined by it’s most obnoxious extreme.

    Exactly, Time123.

    This is much of our country. And a lot of Americans do this to ‘the other side’. and both sides are outraged at the notion we shouldn’t see things this way. There’s more clicks and cash in being scared of bad people than there is in discussing why good people disagree on so many things.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  20. @ Mark G., #9:

    The left is already routinely censoring and destroying those they oppose. It doesn’t matter if those on the right are forthright and inoffensive or not. The left will destroy all outside of it equally. Thus the only valid response to the left is to make it pay for such transgressions…

    “Why do you pay such attention to the beam in your own eye, and neglect the mote in the eye of your brother?”

    “Resist an evil person with all your heart, and all your soul, and all your mind, and all your strength. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, punch them in the face so hard that they will fall down, and not rise again without great difficulty.”

    “Do unto others because they will probably do unto you if you don’t.”

    —Things Jesus didn’t say

    Demosthenes (fdb2d4)

  21. Huck Finn thought that abolitionists went to hell. Cultural values change. The Ten Commandments, all of which Trump has violated except the Fifth, are eternal.

    nk (1d9030)

  22. This is wishful thinking by people near the center left who really want to convince themselves that the center of gravity for the party is still near the center. I think people in this position are only an election or so away from being NeverHarris.

    It’s possible that you’re correct. But given the incompetence and corruption of Trump’s administration it’s a risk I’m willing to take. Also, unless the GOP re-runs Trump in 24 I can’t see voting for Harris.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  23. There’s also people who, maybe, just don’t listen to Biden.

    Maybe yep. This is a nation of Ice Road Truckers,, Duck Dynasty, Pawn Stars, the NFL, the NBA, some MLB –and softcore “Dancing With The Stars.”

    Trump Country.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  24. @CoryGardner calls out Twitter for flagging tweets from the president, and not flagging the Iranian Ayatollah’s tweets denying the Holocaust
    https://youtu.be/XTFEmvwjT68

    Cory Gardner also threatened to block a Trump appointee to the DOJ unless the DOJ promised not to enforce the federal marijuana laws in states which have legalized marijuana. Is that woke, not-woke, or just an example of when a racket becomes lucrative enough it buys its politicians wholesale?

    nk (1d9030)

  25. I make no claim to follow those, by the way. Anyone simply looking through some of my posts on this site will see how often, and how unreflectively, I act as if those words could be found in the Gospels.

    But we have to get past “the left” and “the right.” Not get past disagreeing with each other, even severely…we probably must do that. In fact, maybe we will even find in doing so that our core values are now irreconcilable, and we must split. But we can at least treat each other well while we go about it.

    And if those “on the other side” don’t treat us well, that doesn’t exempt us from the duty to treat them well.

    Demosthenes (fdb2d4)

  26. The problem with making DJT the anti-SJW champion (and the face of conservatism and the GOP) is that it visibly identifies the cause with casual bigotry, selfishness, and callousness.

    DJT has boasted about having great German genes, clearly implying that this ancestry makes him a superior sort of person — in addition to whatever he thinks makes him as an individual superior to other people.
    He has singled out particular American citizens, either born here or brought here at an early age, as not really belonging here but having another home they should “go back to.” He wouldn’t have said that to a fair-skinned person who immigrated from Ireland as an adult.

    Etc. And what has the Trump presidency really done to tame SJW extremism? Or win people in the middle over to the conservative side of the culture wars?

    Radegunda (20775b)

  27. There’s also people who, maybe, just don’t listen to Biden.

    There are a lot of people who say we shouldn’t pay attention to what Trump says (unless he happens to say something sensible). People in his own administration have felt it necessary to tell the public or even courts of law that Trump’s words should not be taken seriously.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  28. @4 For many people, voting for DJT was a reaction against the Left’s excesses. Those votes were not based on his person or policies.

    That’s what is called a temper tantrum, and growing up I got punished for it. It is one of the lamest reasons for choosing anyone to be the President of this great country.

    @11. 9 & 10 both assume that ‘the left’ is monolithic and defined by it’s most obnoxious extreme. Both also ignore that Biden (a center left candidate) winning the nomination is a rebuke to the extremism they oppose.

    If they’re not careful they’re going to get prop 187’ed.

    PurpleHaze (c89a51)

  29. The link is not addressed to extremists on either side but “It is an appeal to reluctant Trump voters and to those who remain undecided.”

    Maybe the vast majority of Americans have become radicalized and identify with the extreme Left or the extreme Right, but I doubt it. I think most Americans are tired of the drama. These are the people the link is talking to.

    DRJ (aede82)

  30. Sarah Haider, Cathy Young, the dreaded Tom Nichols, Steven Pinker, and others weigh in. Read it all.

    If it’s OK with you, can I read it all except for Tom Nichols?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  31. Thanks, Patterico, for bringing this insightful discussion to our attention. I’m sure these arguments could be applied to extremists on either side. If I were to confront (or be confronted by) an Antifa rioter I would say basically the same thing: “You people really want to see Trump reelected, don’t you?” And likewise when people go down populist rabbit holes, they only end up strengthening the arguments on the extreme left. Yes, they do feed off each other.

    Roger (83ed7d)

  32. Cory Gardner also threatened to block a Trump appointee to the DOJ unless the DOJ promised not to enforce the federal marijuana laws in states which have legalized marijuana. Is that woke, not-woke, or just an example of when a racket becomes lucrative enough it buys its politicians wholesale?

    I don’t know, nk: it sounds to me like a United State Senator advocating on behalf of his home state and effectively using the leverage he has. Seems to me that’s sort of his job.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  33. He’s the living embodiment of corruption, the poster boy for conflict of interest, the sultan of self dealing.

    Shorter: a capitalist.

    And people wonder why young people find socialism attractive.

    Victor (00af29)

  34. The whole thing is not very long, JVW, and I have to confess … is there a parallel of the phrase “First World problems” for “intelligentsia problems”?

    nk (1d9030)

  35. I don’t know, nk: it sounds to me like a United State Senator advocating on behalf of his home state and effectively using the leverage he has. Seems to me that’s sort of his job.

    Okay, I’ll eject the empty and reload. Is legalized marijuana woke or not-woke?

    nk (1d9030)

  36. I kinda like one of the candidates, but if the other guy wins it will irritate some people that I dislike. What should I do?

    Fred (eef7b0)

  37. Okay, I’ll eject the empty and reload. Is legalized marijuana woke or not-woke?

    Man, I wish I knew. The Falun Gong newspaper has an article about my hometown’s experiment with trying to be the Silicon Valley of marijuana which actually I think is pretty well-reported and comports a great deal with what I have observed and what my family has told me. Sitting here today I can’t tell you for certain whether I think legalized pot was a step in the right direction in terms of increasing personal liberty and stopping the government from zealous persecution, or whether legalized pot brought out the worst in dysfunctional communities that were already prone to social pathologies.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  38. This is a timely post about a fascinating article of diverse opinions, and it has brought out some very interesting and thoughtful comments. Well done to everyone all around.

    I lean towards the opinions expressed by Simon Jester, Mark G, and frosty. Despite the eloquent and reasonable pieces we read from the contributors to Aero, I find it impossible to believe that the departure of Donald Trump is going to lead to a truce in the ongoing culture wars, nor do I share the belief that it will at least recalibrate the sides more towards the anti-wokeness crowd. I can imagine President Joe Biden downplaying the most obnoxious elements of social justice dogma in 2021 as an olive branch to the right, but Biden is both politically and intellectually weak and rest assured by 2022 the Washington DC Social Justice Warriors will be back in the saddle and charging along at full speed, almost certainly with the continued backing of the Democrat establishment including Joe Biden. And in states like California we won’t even be given a temporary reprieve from SJW nonsense — just look at some of the ballot initiatives we’re facing this year.

    There are lots and lots and lots of reasons not to vote for Donald J. Trump next week (just as there are lots and lots and lots of reasons not to vote for Joseph R. Biden, Jr.), but expecting that this will be the first step in bringing to close the War of the Woke strikes me as being fanciful thinking.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  39. There are lots and lots and lots of reasons not to vote for Donald J. Trump next week (just as there are lots and lots and lots of reasons not to vote for Joseph R. Biden, Jr.), but expecting that this will be the first step in bringing to close the War of the Woke strikes me as being fanciful thinking.

    JVW (ee64e4) —

    Joe has indicated that he wants to that.
    Here’s a list of all the other people that had a chance of winning that won’t even go that far:

    Here’s the list of people that explicitly want to win fight going: Sanders, Warren, Harris, Trump.

    Biden has a lot of flaws, but those haven’t allowed sanders or warren to beat him yet.

    Given that it’s worth a shot….

    I’m waiting to see what he says about the Riot in Philly last night. I’m willing to give him a little time to get his facts and thoughts in order, but that’s about up IMO and It will be disappointing if he’s silent on it.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  40. Fred (eef7b0) — 10/28/2020 @ 11:07 am

    I kinda like one of the candidates, but if the other guy wins it will irritate some people that I dislike. What should I do?

    Go long on alcohol stocks and stock up on bourbon and popcorn.

    frosty (f27e97)

  41. It will be disappointing if he’s silent on it.

    Time123 (b4d075) — 10/28/2020 @ 11:33 am

    Biden’s whole campaign has been embarrassing. Clever, in that everyone thinks this is an election about Trump. Biden breached that plan in the third debate and it was a real bad move.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  42. @41, nothing good about it except that it appears to be working.

    Minimum Viable project is to release a statement or a video message.

    He’s leading in the polls and this is a battle ground state. If he really feels that as president he will be able to impact this type of thing with soft power he needs to start trying to do that.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  43. I don’t know, nk: it sounds to me like a United State Senator advocating on behalf of his home state and effectively using the leverage he has. Seems to me that’s sort of his job.

    Senators swear an oath to support and defend the Constitution, and that Constitution says:

    This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

    Comrade nk is right.

    Dave (1bb933)

  44. @40, have you tried Low and Slow Rye whisky?

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  45. Comrade nk is right.

    It seems to me that Gardner is trying to use his influence to change the Law of the Land. What can be wrong with that? He’s not advocating that it be wantonly violated.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  46. I mean, given that we seem to have long since determined that the DOJ can choose to enforce or not enforce laws at its own discretion, why shouldn’t Gardner try to make marijuana laws one of those categories that the feds choose not to enforce in Colorado?

    JVW (ee64e4)

  47. 39. Time123 (b4d075) — 10/28/2020 @ 11:33 am

    I’m waiting to see what he says about the Riot in Philly last night.

    He’ll say absolutely nothing if possible. If cornered, he will say something not very explicit that can be interpreted as being against the riot, and will be so interpreted by his partisans to anyone who wants a condemnation.

    But this riot wasn’t just in Philadelphia. It also was in New York:

    https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs/news/2020/10/28/nypd–protesters-of-philadelphia-police-shooting-caused-damage-in-downtown-brooklyn

    The NYPD says 27 people were arrested after violent protests erupted in the city over the police shooting death of a Black man in Philadelphia. Five summonses were also issued.

    Protesters smashed windows, started fires, and sprayed graffiti around Downtown Brooklyn Tuesday night.

    Video posted to social media shows fireworks going off as a crowd marches down the street

    And then there was the “Jews for Trump” motorcade rally, that proceeded uneventfully so long as it went through Brooklyn and Lower Manhattan but then when it got to Times Square: (I don;t know if the organizers knew what was there.)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/25/nyregion/trump-protesters-clash-nyc.html

    leven people were arrested, the police said, during skirmishes between opposing sides in Manhattan, where Rudolph W. Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer and the city’s former mayor, encountered protesters targeting a pro-Trump caravan of cars, a rally that was publicized by a group that identifies itself as Jews for Trump. All have been released except for a 36-year-old man who threw eggs in the faces of two police officers, the police said.

    In one video, Mr. Giuliani could be seen in the passenger side of a vehicle with the window rolled down as anti-Trump protesters screamed at him.

    In an interview, Mr. Giuliani said that he had encountered the caravan and the protesters while driving down Fifth Avenue after taping his radio show.

    “I would love to have had a campaign commercial of it and put it on in the middle of America and say, ‘Who would you prefer for the next four years?” he said. “This group of foul-mouthed people who don’t seem to have a vocabulary beyond three words, or these very nice Jewish people who are driving in the car and not saying anything back and not doing anything other than exercising their right to say they’re for Donald Trump.”

    According to the police, a pro-Trump caravan passed through Times Square, where supporters of the president clashed with a group of anti-Trump protesters. The cars in the convoy were then blocked by counterprotesters, and some drivers got out of their cars to confront the anti-Trump demonstrators.

    The two sides hurled political slurs — calling each other “fascists” and “anarchists”— traded blows, and fought over the Trump supporters’ flags before the police broke them apart, according to videos posted online.

    In some videos, a group of people can be seen yelling expletives and throwing eggs and other projectiles at passing cars flying pro-Trump flags in Midtown, while in another, a group of people holding pro-Trump banners march on one side of the street as people across the street yell, “New York hates you.”

    The New York Times (and some TV news) paired it with another incident, where a policeman in a possibly leaning to Trump section of Brooklyn used his patrol cars loudspeaker to endorse Trump and ask people to put things on YouTube or Facebook. It was maybe part of an argument he had with what policemen call a civilian. He got suspended. The Sergeants Benevolent Association said the punishment was too tough.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  48. Time123 (b4d075) — 10/28/2020 @ 11:33 am

    I’m waiting to see what he says about the Riot in Philly last night. I’m willing to give him a little time to get his facts and thoughts in order, but that’s about up IMO and It will be disappointing if he’s silent on it.

    It will be interesting if he gives a “good people on both sides” response especially now that BLM/A is running cops over with cars (this is in Philly and NYC). This would be a departure from his tacit endorsement of BLM/A and Harris’ explicit endorsement.

    An interesting thing, at least to me, is when I do a google search for “new york city protestor runs over cops with car last night” I get old unrelated links. If I google search for “new york city protests last night” I get links to stories that include that detail.

    frosty (f27e97)

  49. Trump’s minions don’t fight SJWs, they emulate them. Cancel culture is rife among The Donald’s followers — just look at what happens to every official who gets turfed for saying NO to Trump.

    Then: Mattis is the greatest general of all time.
    Now: Mattis doesn’t hold a candle to Robert E Lee. He’s a Benedict Arnold, actually!

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  50. JVW (ee64e4) — 10/28/2020 @ 11:53 am

    why shouldn’t Gardner try to make marijuana laws one of those categories that the feds choose not to enforce in Colorado?

    It already was, but presuably Gardner wanted it more official so these businesses wouldn;t have troububle maintaining bank accounts..

    This is not something “woke” That is “new age”

    Woke is complaining that more blacks are arrested for using marijuana (probably because more don’t have cars and maybe aren’t careful, and there are more police in neighborhoods many live in)

    And really woke is complaining that not enough blacks are being licensed to go into the marijuana business.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  51. @48, your summary of his previous statements isn’t accurate. He’s been clear that protests are legal but riots and violence are not and people who commit violence should be arrested.

    Time123 (d1bf33)

  52. It seems to me that Gardner is trying to use his influence to change the Law of the Land. What can be wrong with that? He’s not advocating that it be wantonly violated.

    The way senators are supposed to “change the law of the land” is by passing a new law of the land.

    If Senator Harris threatened to block an appointment unless the FBI pledged to deny all federally mandated background checks for weapon purchases in California, would you be as amenable to this approach to “advocating on behalf of [her] home state and effectively using the leverage [s]he has”?

    Also, think about what Gardner was demanding. Federal laws cannot be selectively enforced on one group or state and not another without violating the 5th and 14th Amendments. Gardner was effectively telling other states who might want the Feds to enforce the supreme law of the land: GFY.

    John C. Calhoun is still dead. Nullification of federal laws by a state should stay dead with him.

    Dave (1bb933)

  53. 48. Try Google News

    https://nypost.com/2020/10/27/anti-cop-protesters-leave-trail-of-destruction-in-downtown-brooklyn

    At the same intersection, the driver of a car accelerated through a line of cops after being ordered to stop. One cop suffered a leg injury, sources said.

    Maybe “last night” doesn’t find things.

    You also find that story with a regular web search if you click on Tools and then select Past 24 hours.

    Now Trump – he wanted to cut off police and other assistance to New York (along with Seattle and Portland, Oregon) on the grounds they are “anarchist cities.”

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  54. It’s always weird to me that Trump got away with saying there were good guys on both sides, and even asking the more nutty and violent to stand by for election day (we know what he meant) and LIBERATE MICHIGAN. It’s like there’s a little if then statement programmed in our heads.

    If my side did something we know is wrong, then that means the other side also did it X 10.

    Ivanka : Hunter
    Proud Boys : BLM
    Inject Bleach and Gargle UV light : Sundown Joe’s Lazy Lids
    Stormy : Tara

    At no point do these folks stop and just think about things at face value, what they mean about the actual person who did whatever. It always starts with the analysis of what the other side did, no matter what.

    But like DRJ said, the vocal folks that are insisting they decide what we talk about, trying to disrupt anything else. Most folks are not crazy.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  55. Time123 (d1bf33) — 10/28/2020 @ 12:12 pm

    I see it as less clear than “I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and white nationalists because they should be condemned totally.”

    But Biden’s certainly got more chances to clarify his position on protestors running over cops with cars. Let’s see if he takes advantage of any of them.

    frosty (f27e97)

  56. And “popular sovereignty” is welcome to remain dead along with Stephen A. Douglas, too.

    Dave (1bb933)

  57. Dave (1bb933) — 10/28/2020 @ 12:17 pm

    The way senators are supposed to “change the law of the land” is by passing a new law of the land.

    He;s trying that too, but there’s too much opposition in Congress, although a law that exempted any state that legalized marijuana would pass in Congress.

    Also, think about what Gardner was demanding. Federal laws cannot be selectively enforced on one group or state and not another without violating the 5th and 14th Amendments.

    hat;s exactly current policy, even under Trump, althugh Jeff Sessions didn;t want to do that.

    https://thenewsstation.com/on-marijuana-trumps-blowing-smoke

    A Trump second term is unlikely to provide any real progress on cannabis legalization or even declassification from its unenviable perch as a Schedule 1 drug where it’s federally codified next to heroin and LSD, because Trump hasn’t shown any attention to the issue, even as the majority of states are now out of compliance with the federal blanket prohibition on cannabis…

    …During his first four years, Trump occasionally teased a policy to leave the laws governing cannabis to the states, but he’s never used his 280-character bully pulpit to tweet-pressure Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell into any sort of federal action. And in the 116th Congress, the Democratic-controlled House of Representatives has voted on a number of marijuana bills, including the SAFE Banking Act, which would allow the cannabis industry access to the banking system. While the SAFE Banking Act passed the House in September of 2019, it has since been gathering dust on McConnell’s desk.

    Most of the alleged support Trump’s shown as progress towards cannabis normalization centers around Sen. Cory Gardner (R-Col.). The junior senator from Colorado – who became the ‘leading’ GOP voice on the topic after his state’s voters rejected his past prohibitionist stance and voted to legalize recreational weed – has become a bellwether for political junkies hoping to gauge any sort of progress on the bipartisan efforts to upend the federal government’s stale marijuana laws.

    The GOP senator’s attempts at such progress include trying to get language into a coronavirus package [!!] that would allow the industry access to the US financial system (cannabis companies in the 33 states and the District of Columbia that legalized marijuana in one form or another are still federally banned from accepting credit cards). But Gardner has been entirely unsuccessful in making any progress on the issue with his party, whether that’s in the Republican-controlled Senate or in Trump’s White House. Democrats are seizing on his proven record of fecklessness on the issue in their attempt to tip Colorado in the Senate, along with a number of other states, on Election Day.

    The sole moment that’s viewed as successful in Gardner’s pro-cannabis campaign was his 2018 announcement that he had struck a deal with the White House to get then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions and the Justice Department to back down on their efforts to allow federal agents to prioritize criminal prosecutions of marijuana businesses in states that legalized the herb locally. The Sessions’ memo, which is a constant topic of conversation among cannabis policy wonks, was issued to all US attorneys on January 8, 2018 and titled “Marijuana Enforcement.”

    The memo which Sessions killed with his own memo was a 2013 Obama-era policy dubbed the Cole Memo, which was issued after Washington State and Colorado legalized recreational marijuana. It kept the federal government out of the marijuana industry in states where cannabis was legalized by either local voters or the state’s legislature. The dueling memos are noteworthy, because they basically represent the only federal action on cannabis policy in the past two presidencies. The Cole Memo instructs US attorneys to focus on “certain enforcement priorities that are particularly important to the federal government.” Such activities included “preventing revenue from the sale of marijuana from going to criminal enterprises, gangs or cartels” and “preventing violence and the use of firearms in the cultivation and distribution of marijuana.”

    ….In his 2018 memo, Jeff Sessions wrote, “Given the Department’s well-established general principles, previous nationwide guidance specific to marijuana enforcement is unnecessary and is rescinded, effective immediately.”

    Gardner temporarily halted all DOJ nominees from moving in the Senate – from US marshals to lower US attorneys – until he met with Sessions. He emerged trumpeting an announcement that he’d struck a deal with the prohibitionist AG – and in effect Trump’s White House – as a victory for his state’s marijuana industry. The president’s top political lieutenants at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue were less enthusiastic about the deal. At the time, their point man to Congress was openly lukewarm on the solution that was brokered.

    “Clearly, we’ve expressed our frustration with the delay with a lot of our nominees and feel that too often, senators hijack a nominee for a policy solution,” Marc Short, who is now Vice President Mike Pence’s chief of staff, told the Washington Post at the time. “So we’re reluctant to reward that sort of behavior. But at the same time, we’re anxious to get our team at the Department of Justice.”

    The embattled Colorado senator appears to have twisted the White House into submission, publicly at least. The feds never charged into states, arresting people selling or smoking cannabis, as Jeff-“Good people don’t smoke marijuana”-Sessions surely would have preferred. But we don’t know exactly what Trump said to Gardner on the phone call which the senator says included a promise not to prosecute his state’s legal cannabis industry. Even if it did include a Trump promise (whatever a Trump promise is even worth), it was one that was all public bravado, mixed with no follow through, private sneering, and accidental – if honest – dismissive laughter.

    In a June interview with The News Station, White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows – the president’s 4th in four years – chuckled when asked about whether this administration had any plans to decriminalize marijuana. Once Gardner’s name was mentioned, along with the alleged and unsubstantiated ‘promise’ Gardner secured from Trump on decriminalization, the laughing stopped and the buck was passed. …

    Maybe I quoted too much here.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  58. It’s always weird to me that Trump got away with…

    If by “got away with” you mean he was incessantly blamed by the media for all of those things, you’re spot on.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  59. Also, think about what Gardner was demanding. Federal laws cannot be selectively enforced on one group or state and not another without violating the 5th and 14th Amendments.

    I invite you to get James Comey, Hillary Clinton, and Jerry Chun Shing Lee all together in one room and hash this out with them. I’m sure laughs will abound.

    Besides, I’m sure Gardner wanted those federal marijuana laws suspended for all of the states, not just Colorado. It’s just that at the time it was Colorado who was in the eye of the hurricane.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  60. Meanwhile the New York Times reports that marijuana is much more damaging to the heart than cigarettes. (I would guess because of the way i affects the body;s biochemistry.)

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/26/well/live/marijuana-heart-health-cardiovascular-risks.html

    Still there is a question as to why this should be treated any worse than steroids.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  61. I invite you to get James Comey, Hillary Clinton, and Jerry Chun Shing Lee all together in one room and hash this out with them. I’m sure laughs will abound.

    Whataboutism noted. Having read the Trump shill McCarthy’s polemic, the facts don’t seem very similar, but it’s irrelevant. If, as he tries to insist, they are, that is still not an argument in favor of nullification. It’s an argument against it.

    Besides, I’m sure Gardner wanted those federal marijuana laws suspended for all of the states, not just Colorado. It’s just that at the time it was Colorado who was in the eye of the hurricane.

    Duly enacted laws should be enforced as written, until replaced by other duly enacted laws. The alternatives are anarchy or tyranny.

    Dave (1bb933)

  62. John C. Calhoun is still dead. Nullification of federal laws by a state should stay dead with him.

    Then why are there sanctuary cities? Do local authorities have the right to ignore clear violations of federal law? Can they, for example, permit counterfeiters to operate?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  63. Miles Taylor, a Former Homeland Security Official, Reveals He Was ‘Anonymous’

    Maybe that will look better on the resume than “former Trump official.” Or maybe “backstabbing former Trump official” is worse. I guess it depends on where you are applying, but nobody trusts a traitor.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  64. There are lots and lots and lots of reasons not to vote for Donald J. Trump next week…

    but one singularly, blatantly obvious, overriding reason to vote for Donald J. Trump:

    Plagiarist Joe Biden. Who will turn 78 years old in just 23 days.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  65. but one singularly, blatantly obvious, overriding reason to vote for Donald J. Trump:

    I don’t understand why the Trump campaign didn’t hire you to run their ad campaign. “Plagiarist Joe Biden” sounds like such a winner.

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  66. Patterico,

    I voted for Trump despite knowing that everything the man personally touches is a disaster and plan on doing so again. There is only one thing I judge POTUS candidates by and that is court appointments. There are plenty of things the courts have done that I actually support as political outcomes (abortion, gay marriage – actually I would prefer that government get out of the marriage business entirely and make it a matter of private contract) but I care about process every time over outcome. and on that score liberal courts are an unmitigated horror.

    Perhaps living in California where the result is already ordained allows you some other choice.

    Soronel Haetir (10aefb)

  67. Then why are there sanctuary cities? Do local authorities have the right to ignore clear violations of federal law?

    As I think you understand, “sanctuary city” policies do not involve violating any federal laws.

    Rather, they withhold voluntary cooperation in certain situations where the law does not require it.

    I believe the settled law concerning your second question is: yes, they do.

    My fancypants-deficient understanding is that the Feds cannot require a state to enforce federal statutes.

    I believe states enforce their own laws against passing counterfeit currency, as a form of fraud or theft. The Feds enforce the law against the production of counterfeit currency itself.

    But in the Colorado marijuana situation, the state has gone far beyond mere neglect of violations of federal law, and set itself up as an illegal (and lucrative) protection racket for drug dealers.

    It would be like if the state granted licenses to produce and distribute counterfeit currency, in return for a percentage of the gross receipts.

    Dave (1bb933)

  68. @2

    I’d sincerely like to see whembly’s comments here.

    Appalled (1a17de) — 10/28/2020 @ 8:45 am

    Didn’t know I was kinda famous. (or infamous? 😉 )

    These are people who fear that a vote for the Democrats will enable a cultural revolution that will harm all Americans—people who want to make America a better place for everyone and believe that voting Trump will at least prevent it from becoming a worse one.

    The contributors below think this position is misguided.

    I wholly, 100% disagree with the entire premise.

    I don’t believe, being a GOP voter, that voting for Democrats or abstaining is an effective means to “signal” the GOP establishment that the current establishment needs to change.

    To me, it’s just as effective as a toddler’s tantrum.

    The adult thing to do, is to work within your party towards the direction you want. Again, that means being actively engaged during the primary phase of the election cycle.

    I also don’t buy that Trump is doing any lasting damage to the party, as POTUS his influence is transient. Once he’s out of office, the next POTUS will be “the guy/gal”… not civilian Trump.

    So, as a GOP/Conservative voter… just take the wins as they come, and bear the crap that Trumpism is hoisted upon you knowing that the alternatives is definitely worst. (ie, Democrats in power).

    To reiterate my other post and Patterico’s statements: Yes, I’ll own the good and bad during the Trump era. If you’re actively supporting Biden, then yes I’ll lavishly hoist you on your own petard when liberal/leftist agendas are shoved down our throats, and I’ll relish my “I told you so” attitudes. My animus towards today’s Democrats knows no bounds.

    whembly (ee52fd)

  69. @32

    Cory Gardner also threatened to block a Trump appointee to the DOJ unless the DOJ promised not to enforce the federal marijuana laws in states which have legalized marijuana. Is that woke, not-woke, or just an example of when a racket becomes lucrative enough it buys its politicians wholesale?

    I don’t know, nk: it sounds to me like a United State Senator advocating on behalf of his home state and effectively using the leverage he has. Seems to me that’s sort of his job.

    JVW (ee64e4) — 10/28/2020 @ 10:50 am

    This, it’s literally his job and its refreshing that a Senator makes a stand like this for his state.

    whembly (ee52fd)

  70. Or maybe “backstabbing former Trump official” is worse. I guess it depends on where you are applying, but nobody trusts a traitor.

    So the Trump critics aren’t just grifters looking for the easy route to fame and riches? There’s actually a down side to Speaking Truth to Power when it comes to DJ Trump?

    On the GOP side it’s been a commonplace that people who went to work in the administration had a responsibility to rein in the worst impulses of Trump. While Trump-fluffers keep insisting that all the bad stuff about Trump is only an unpolished “style,” we got word from inside that the style reveals the substance, which if anything is actually worse. One thing that Taylor and others have said after leaving is that staff sometimes declined to carry out Trump’s more harebrained ideas.

    Given that Taylor’s responsibility was to the country and the Constitution, not to Donald Trump personally, some people will think he wasn’t being treacherous but was risking his career to fulfill his duty.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  71. Whataboutism noted. Having read the Trump shill McCarthy’s polemic, the facts don’t seem very similar, but it’s irrelevant. If, as he tries to insist, they are, that is still not an argument in favor of nullification. It’s an argument against it.

    “They get to make up their own rules, but we’ve got to play by the rules they make up for us” noted. Way to undermine your own argument that the rules should apply equally to everyone.

    Regarding your hypothetical question about Sen. Harris blocking an appointment unless she got her way on a gun law, that would be for the Senate and White House to figure out. There would be nothing to prevent the Senate Majority Leader from changing the rules to disallow her hold or to remove the Senator from the committee. If Cocaine Mitch or Don John had objected to Gardner’s move, they could have easily removed him as an obstacle. Frankly, I think in this case the system worked as it was intended to.

    JVW (ee64e4)

  72. There is only one thing I judge POTUS candidates by and that is court appointments.

    Then you definitely should vote for Trump.

    But it is kinda convenient. Trump has screwed up every promise he’s made, every crisis, except judicial appointments, and you think that’s the only thing that matters.

    But OK.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  73. “Plagiarist Joe Biden” sounds like such a winner.

    I never get tired of hearing it.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  74. As I think you understand, “sanctuary city” policies do not involve violating any federal laws.

    They aid and abet fugitives from federal law with full knowledge they are fugitives.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  75. The adult thing to do, is to work within your party towards the direction you want….

    I also don’t buy that Trump is doing any lasting damage to the party,

    Trump has made the party smaller, and has made the GOP brand more unpalatable to young voters and suburbanites. The response from Trumpites is basically — and sometimes literally — “good riddance” to anyone who doesn’t share their enthusiasm for Trump. They started calling Trump-skeptics RINOs five years ago.

    This year, the GOP platform was: We enthusiastically support whatever Trump wants.
    Congressional candidates have been competing to demonstrate that they’re Trumpier than their opponents.

    A central premise of the Trump candidacy was that the GOP (or “GOPe”) was rotten and needed to be rebuilt around a brash outsider. Some have pointed out that Trump’s main achievements were essentially the work of those hated GOP establishment types, but to the Trump loyalists, anything good is all about Trump doing what no one else could possibly have done, while anything bad must be someone else’s fault, or it’s simply brushed aside and forgotten.

    The whole party identity has been lashed tightly to Donald Trump, and now there are deep (and bitter) divisions between those who will always defend Trump no matter what, and those who believe his influence has mostly been damaging. Some of the latter are out of the GOP for the foreseeable future. Those who remain will probably continue to be regarded by Trump loyalists as traitors to America.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  76. Again, that means being actively engaged during the primary phase of the election cycle.

    Whembly, this is a smart idea. But the primary in 2016 was very stupid and the GOP picked the objectively worst possible candidate, indeed the worst one in the nation’s entire history, and he wound up killing a lot of Americans through incompetence. Then in 2020, no primary. We’re told over and over the GOP uniformly adores Trump.

    So a lot of us aren’t republicans I guess.

    bear the crap that Trumpism is hoisted upon you knowing that the alternatives is definitely worst

    this sounds like a very honest description of your view. We merely disagree that Biden is definitely worse than Trump/Putin. I think the way Trump has undermined the rule of law goes far beyond legislative wins, executive orders, etc. It’s bigger than the presidency.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  77. My fancypants-deficient understanding is that the Feds cannot require a state to enforce federal statutes.

    Then the federal statutes are not “supreme.” Pretty much by definition. You can’t play those wave/particle games here.

    As for marijuana, it’s worse than you think. The states require these businesses to admit to their federally illegal transactions in order to be legal in the state. The businesses are themselves uninsurable, unable to get financial accounts or credit card processing, and can be subjected to federal tax violations on proceeds they have trouble reporting.

    As a result, at least in CA, these are mostly cash businesses that cannot insure that cash other than using Pinkertons.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  78. I suspect that some upcoming Supreme Court case will be resolving this “sanctuary” business and the duty of state authorities to adhere to federal law.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  79. But it is kinda convenient. Trump has screwed up every promise he’s made, every crisis, except judicial appointments, and you think that’s the only thing that matters.

    It’s also one of the responsibilities he essentially shopped out to other people, since he surely knows nothing about judicial philosophy and has no interest in learning — though he probably learned that Kavanaugh has a view of executive power that’s agreeable to him.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  80. I also wonder at what changes CA is in store for as the emerging Catholic majority tests its strength at the polls in the next decade or two.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  81. But it is kinda convenient. Trump has screwed up every promise he’s made, every crisis, except judicial appointments, and you think that’s the only thing that matters.

    And it’s the only thing he agrees with the rest of the GOP on. Any GOP president to the right of Kasich would have done as well, while not “screw[ing] up every promise he’s made, every crisis”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  82. Dustin,

    And other than the actual mechanics of submitting names it’s something he has next to no personal involvement with.

    I knew going in that the man is a disaster, but just like 2016 it’s a matter of look at the alternative and on that score Democrats have simply become no choice at all, their entire operation is to gain through the courts things they could not achieve via the established political process.

    Soronel Haetir (10aefb)

  83. Trump rides every horse he gets on sideways. The horse trips and falls over. Trump blames the idiot horse. “Obama’s horses didn’t fall over!”

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  84. Dustin,

    And other than the actual mechanics of submitting names it’s something he has next to no personal involvement with.

    I knew going in that the man is a disaster, but just like 2016 it’s a matter of look at the alternative and on that score Democrats have simply become no choice at all, their entire operation is to gain through the courts things they could not achieve via the established political process.

    Soronel Haetir (10aefb) — 10/28/2020 @ 2:41 pm

    Honestly if it’s really all that matters to you, Trump is objectively better than Biden, and even better than Bush.

    but the problem is, what is the judiciary? The administration of justice? What’s happening to the Court next year? Does what Trump showed us with the rule of law, over people who helped him in the last election, mean something that affects all that?

    I think the established political process is in decline. Trump’s either a symptom or a cause, depending on how you look at it, but he’s also an example to the next would-be bad leader.

    I wonder what the means for the court long term. If the GOP’s in the wilderness for the next 12 years (and I think it has been for the last 12) what does that mean for your judicial appointments?

    I guess some of that is inevitable… 8 years of this bozo aren’t that much worse than 4?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  85. I think the way Trump has undermined the rule of law goes far beyond legislative wins, executive orders, etc. It’s bigger than the presidency.

    There’s also the conspicuously self-centered way that Trump approaches the job. And it isn’t just “style.” He’s telling is what really matters to him.

    One seemingly minor but quite revealing example was when Omarosa was fired: Trump tweeted that the CoS (or whoever) had told him that she wasn’t really doing her job and she was rude to other people, but Trump said he had wanted to keep her on because “she said GREAT things about me!”

    It’s bad enough that a president would view the standards for a good public servant that way; it’s pathologically self-absorbed to trumpet it proudly to the public and assume that no one could find fault with it.

    Of course, the Trump-fluffers either fail to see how psychologically weird that is, or else they agree that glorifying Trump is what matters.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  86. their entire operation is to gain through the courts things they could not achieve via the established political process.

    On the other hand, Dems have been winning elections lately, while the Trumpified GOP seems to regard installing judges as a substitute for reaching out to the voters they’re losing. In fact, many Republicans appear to believe that fewer people voting is a good thing.

    Radegunda (20775b)

  87. 39. 47. 48. Biden came out against looting and violence (to say he condemned it would be too strong) and he cited the dead man’s father for support for that position. It;s reminiscent pf what George Floyd’s family said.

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  88. All things are made foul in this season,
    This is the reason, none may seek purity
    Having for foulnesse pity
    And things growne awry;

    — Ezra Pound, Canto XXX

    nk (1d9030)

  89. They aid and abet fugitives from federal law with full knowledge they are fugitives.

    There is no warrant for the arrest of said “fugitives from federal law”. Should the authorities be able to lock up anybody they want on the mere say-so of a bureaucrat who’s not a judge?

    Then the federal statutes are not “supreme.” Pretty much by definition. You can’t play those wave/particle games here.

    You simply misunderstand.

    The supremacy clause says that in the event of any conflict between state laws and federal laws, the federal law wins.

    The constitution (thankfully) does not place all local law-enforcement officers under the command of the attorney general or the president, and a number of court decisions have confirmed this over the years.

    In the Gardner example, he was demanding a federal officer not enforce a federal law because it conflicted with a state law.

    If you don’t see the obvious incompatibility with your example, you aren’t thinking clearly.

    Dave (1bb933)

  90. The solution is to replace the voluntary, unvetted bureaucratic “detainers” with something legally equivalent to a warrant.

    Dave (1bb933)

  91. Well, I still don’t know if legalized marijuana is woke or not-woke, but just by chance I learned what a Klein bottle is, so that’s something anyway, and very much like these threads, too.

    nk (1d9030)

  92. you can buy a klein bottle for ivanka in the vip room of the mobius strip club mr nk

    Dave (1bb933)

  93. Those clip joints, they sell you a chintzy Chinese knockoff three dimensional bottle at four-dimensional prices, Mr. Dave.

    nk (1d9030)

  94. You know, we could have gone somewhere with this thread.

    Main question: Where do leftist, SJW, woke values deviate, if at all, from central, mainstream, Christian values?

    For extra credit: Do they deviate so greatly that we would prefer Trump, a servant of the Beast, to them?

    nk (1d9030)

  95. “Main question: Where do leftist, SJW, woke values deviate, if at all, from central, mainstream, Christian values?”

    “Calling evil good and good evil” and regularly advocating millstone-worthy procedures for innocent children would seem to be a pretty clear-cut sign you’re on the ‘hellbound’ side.

    “For extra credit: Do they deviate so greatly that we would prefer Trump, a servant of the Beast, to them?”

    Trump is a BEAST IN THE SHAPE OF A MAN WITH A DREAM TO RULE SEA AND LAND but not actually a servant of the wh0re of Babylon or a devotee of Jezebel. Your eschatology, as usual, is as weak and ill-informed as your devil’s advocacy.

    Haunter Biden (f4ca61)

  96. So abortion is one. Thank you, Gus (sincerely, I used up my polemics with “servant of the Beast”, I want to know not argue).

    nk (1d9030)

  97. 95. he question is, will they get too much censorship power from a Trump defeat?

    Right now, Twitter can’t and won;t suspend Donald Trump’s account. And if they are not suspending Trump, they can;t do too much else. At least as long as Republicans control one House of Congress.

    But it did suspend the New York Post because of complaints coming from the Democratic Party about material being hacked, or false and maybe Russian inspired lies (although Twitter is are now resting its continued suspension on a picture that came from Hunter Biden’s laptop.)

    Giuliani. by the way says he has a picture of Hunter Biden with no teeth. (and he’s only 50 years old, maybe 48 at most then) I don’t know what that’s supposed to prove other than some drugs are bad for your gums or teeth. I want to know: Which drugs?

    Actually his icloud account because I think his laptops were used only as sometimes offline terminals and backups for his icloud files and periodically synchronized with them, with the later dated files replacing earlier ones.

    The New York Post has more. At a minimum, (the best and maybe most reasonable interpretation) it seems like Joe Biden insisted on Hunter getting his approval for a business partner to keep watch over him and he met with him in the spring of 2017. (Hunter and his uncle Jim later cut out that business partner and dealt directly with corrupt Chinese officials. They got a credit card on which Hunter, Hunter’s brother Jim and Jim’s wife Sara spent over $100.000 combined. The Post doesn;t describe the nature of those purchases.)

    You could worry about censorship, considering they might pass some laws removing protection for
    websites, as well as a new and stronger McCain Feingold, and have friendly judges approve them.

    There’s also the possibility of ruling some kinds of school vouchers unconstitutional. And forcing the teaching of certain doctrines about sex.

    That will take time though

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)

  98. Trump is a BEAST IN THE SHAPE OF A MAN WITH A DREAM TO RULE SEA AND LAND but not actually a servant of the wh0re of Babylon or a devotee of Jezebel. Your eschatology, as usual, is as weak and ill-informed as your devil’s advocacy.

    Shorter: a capitalist.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  99. What about wrapping oneself in HBCU-face?

    urbanleftbehind (61448c)

  100. The solution is to replace the voluntary, unvetted bureaucratic “detainers” with something legally equivalent to a warrant.

    What is a “magistrate”? It’s not just Article III judges, is it? As for “unvetted” do you think they get the names from a Ouija board? Some oath or affirmation is involved.

    Are you saying that if local authorities are told that a particular person has a detainer on him, they are acting lawfully by putting him in a van and releasing him somewhere else? If not, what limitation to authorities have in helping the detainee avoid federal custody when they have been informed that the person is subject to such a detainer?

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  101. I am going to laugh so effing loud when the new Hispanic (and Catholic) majority starts voting against abortion in CA.

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  102. @97 I don’t think abortion is the actual value. It serves as shorthand, but isn’t really accurate. The value would be “bodily autonomy for women” the outcome of which is, for some, abortion; but the value itself isn’t abortion.

    Nic (896fdf)

  103. I hope that this 6th year proves the final one for the 2016 election.

    Plagiarized from xkcd

    Kevin M (ab1c11)

  104. Don’t make white people anxious.

    nk (1d9030)

  105. 104. I don;t understand this comment or the xkcd cartoon. I do understand the reference to this being the 6th year of the 2016 election.

    2015 2016

    2017 2018 2019 2020

    All years in which Donald Trump gets prominent mention in the New York Times Index and the Reader’s Guide to Periodical Literature.

    If, that is, we still have the (printed) New York Times Index and the Reader’s Guide to Periodical Literature.

    (Yes, he was famous in 1987, but not like this. He’s made it into the history books, now.)

    Sammy Finkelman (a69e24)


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