Patterico's Pontifications

10/15/2020

Social Media Platforms Block Sharing of New York Post Story About Hunter Biden Emails

Filed under: General — Patterico @ 8:29 am



The underlying story may well be Russian-planted disinformation, but this is still troubling:

Facebook and Twitter took action on Wednesday to limit the distribution of New York Post reporting with unconfirmed claims about Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden, leading President Trump’s campaign and allies to charge the companies with censorship.

Both social media companies said the moves were aimed at slowing the spread of potentially false information. But they gave few details about how they reached their decisions, sparking criticism about the lack of clarity and consistency with which they apply their rules.

Facebook is “limiting distribution of the story as so-called “fact-checkers” look at the story. Given the checkered history of fact-checkers, it’s hard to feel reassured. Meanwhile, Twitter is being even more aggressive:

Twitter went further. It is blocking users from posting pictures of the emails or links to two of the New York Post’s stories referring to them, spokesman Trenton Kennedy said, citing its rules against sharing “content obtained through hacking that contains private information.”

Users who try to share the links on Twitter are shown a notice saying, “We can’t complete this request because this link has been identified by Twitter or our partners as being potentially harmful.”

If a user clicks on links already posted on Twitter, the user is taken to a warning screen saying, “this link may be unsafe,” which they have to click past to read the story. Twitter also required the New York Post to delete its tweet about the story.

Twitter said it decided to block the links because it couldn’t be sure about the origins of the emails.

The problem is that Republicans can point to many, many stories over the years based on sources that were anonymous or shaky, and yet those stories were shared freely on social media.

I understand the concerns of Facebook and Twitter here. Especially given the skeevy nature of the story and the fact that it was laundered through Steve Bannon and Rudy Giuliani, companies that were blamed for being used by Russian troll farms in 2016 apparently feel the need to show that they are Paying Attention. I will add that I absolutely do not see this as justification for putting the heavy hand of government on private companies’ ability to control what appears on their own Web sites. My guess is that Twitter and Facebook would not do this if they thought Trump was going to win, but they see the Biden landslide coming (as does Rupert Murdoch, by the way), and with it the impending Democrat control of Congress . . . and so I doubt they’re terribly concerned about Republicans’ complaints.

But in the end, this seems like a reckless and one-sided action that is going to fuel the suspicion that social media giants are putting their thumbs on the scale in favor of leftists.

P.S. Your favorite blog is still open to discussion of such matters! I linked the story yesterday, here. And that link remains active and will not come down. Advantage: blogs!

221 Responses to “Social Media Platforms Block Sharing of New York Post Story About Hunter Biden Emails”

  1. I still think it’s likely this is a Russian operation of some sort.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  2. But I guess we’ll see!

    Patterico (115b1f)

  3. It definitely sounds sketchy. The problem is, if the press is allowed to bury it, or does not digging, we may never know.

    The interview with the computer repair shop owner was definitely weird, to the say the least.

    The social media companies’ actions make it seem like they want to kill this story because they favor Biden. But their actions are only making it worse.

    Let the stories and rumors around this fly. It will only hurt Trump’s chances even more if it is fake. But burying the story just makes people think there is something to hide.

    Hoi Polloi (7cefeb)

  4. Have they shut down Biden’s campaign for propagating the Charleston smear or promoting other lies about Trump?

    The bigger issue, is the uneven applications of the rules. There must be one standard… if not, then it’s an editorial decision and they ought to be treated as other legacy editorial institutions.

    whembly (3bda0a)

  5. I still think it’s likely this is a Russian operation of some sort.

    The most compelling argument against that conclusion is how transparently ham-fisted the whole thing is. I expect better from the Russians than this.

    (Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a)

  6. There must be one standard

    There is. The standard is “Heads I Win, Tails You Lose.”

    That’s all you know, and all you need to know.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  7. The interview with the computer repair shop owner was definitely weird, to the say the least.

    Yeah. That’s here. Do people think it’s a coincidence that the computer was dropped off with someone with such views? Or do they think maybe the Russians (or whoever) had researched this fella before they picked his shop?

    Patterico (115b1f)

  8. The most compelling argument against that conclusion is how transparently ham-fisted the whole thing is. I expect better from the Russians than this.

    (Not That) Bill O’Reilly (6bb12a) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:52 am

    But they are actually smart enough to think of that. These guys have been doing this stuff for a long time.

    Also, Giuliani is involved in the hoax so there’s your fists of ham.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  9. There must be one standard

    What if there is one standard, but due to immutable human failings it isn’t applied with perfect consistency across the millions of social media posts being generated every day?

    What if the standard proves faulty and a company decides to change it?

    What if the standard is perfectly fine and fair in theory, but one side or another so regularly engages in fever-swamp conspiracies that their drivel is disproportionately affected?

    (Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a)

  10. Given how awful this has worked out in 2016, a little paranoia in private enterprise, that they were again going to be abused to sabotage our election, I am not surprised they reacted zealously to shut this thing down.

    I expect a lot more, a lot worse, around the one week to election day mark, not to convince the democrats, but to drum up turnout for Trump’s saddened fanbase.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  11. Yesterday, I said I didn’t have an opinion about Facebook/Twitter blocking the NY Post, but I’ve got one now.
    I keep saying “one standard, applied to all” for a reason, because that mental approach should take a lot of the partisanship out of the equation. So in that regard, Facebook/Twitter should also have a single standard, which they appear to have screwed up.
    If it were me in charge, I wouldn’t block the NY Post but I may attach a warning label to say that there is a lot of unverified information in their piece and should be taken with caution, as they should do with any other major news item with sketchy sources and unverified “facts”.
    Holocaust denying and other irrefutably false claims are a separate issue.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  12. I read somewhere that people who lie in court are disproportionately affected by the perjury laws.

    nk (1d9030)

  13. The most compelling argument against that conclusion is how transparently ham-fisted the whole thing is. I expect better from the Russians than this.

    Has anyone shown a picture of Jacob Wohl to the ultra-Trumpy computer shop owner? Just wondering.

    Patterico (115b1f)

  14. @13…that would be amazing.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  15. I expect better from the Russians than this.

    One possibility is that Vladimir Vladimirovich (who is no fool) has written off Trump as a lost cause and redirected his top-shelf assets elsewhere.

    On the other hand, Trump is such an invaluable asset that it would a tragic waste, and unthinkable, to lose him, so the other possibility is that this is a distraction, using a rogues’ gallery of amateurs and bumblers like Rudy, which is intended to appear laughably incompetent and focus our attention away from the real operation going on at the same time.

    Dave (1bb933)

  16. I actually agree on both counts. The story is incredibly problematic. Stopping the sharing of the story is also incredibly problematic.

    Nate (8f526f)

  17. Those who watch these things may have noted that Facebook apparently, after careful consideration and introspection, recently determined that Nazis are bad, too.

    (They also implicitly accepted the notion that they’re a publisher, but that’s a deep well of legal/technical wrangling that is well-outside the core interest of this blog, so I’ll leave that aside.)

    > My guess is that Twitter and Facebook would not do this if they thought Trump was going to win

    Facebook, absolutely. Twitter was trying to fight disinformation previously, albeit from an impossible position. Impossible to say, of course, but I think there’s a good chance Twitter would have done this (or something similar) anyway.

    john (cd2753)

  18. Do people think it’s a coincidence that the computer was dropped off with someone with such views? Or do they think maybe the Russians (or whoever) had researched this fella before they picked his shop?

    They may have not only researched him, but groomed him to believe he was serving A Higher Purpose by doing their bidding.

    Dave (1bb933)

  19. @17 “may” is doing a lot of work there.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  20. Yesterday, I said I didn’t have an opinion about Facebook/Twitter blocking the NY Post, but I’ve got one now.
    I keep saying “one standard, applied to all” for a reason, because that mental approach should take a lot of the partisanship out of the equation. So in that regard, Facebook/Twitter should also have a single standard, which they appear to have screwed up.
    If it were me in charge, I wouldn’t block the NY Post but I may attach a warning label to say that there is a lot of unverified information in their piece and should be taken with caution, as they should do with any other major news item with sketchy sources and unverified “facts”.
    Holocaust denying and other irrefutably false claims are a separate issue.

    Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:03 am

    As usual, this is a pretty good thought.

    I disagree because I think we’re in desperate times, on the brink of something. I think we can feel it in the air and in the frustration of the people on the street. Trump has lost, but will try desperate, probably terrible things over the next 19 days, then the next couple of months, with the help of the very worst people on the planet.

    If I owned some massive social media company I would have been prepared for that, been eagerly waiting to shut it down, day in and day out. This is no way to handle the exchange of news, but it is an emergency. Emergencies are where our rights and ideals are tested, and at the end of the day, I don’t think we ever really had freedom of speech or any other freedom. We safeguard them legally and educationally because we know how fake the concepts really are. Trump’s lied and smeared for decades, so he naturally motivates the test we’re going to fail.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  21. https://pjmedia.com/election/matt-margolis/2020/10/14/report-biden-campaign-doesnt-rule-out-the-possibility-joe-biden-met-with-burisma-executive-n1055204
    From politico:

    The Post story included a screenshot of what the paper said was a 2015 email from Burisma adviser Vadym Pozharskyi to Hunter Biden, thanking him for “the opportunity to meet your father.” But the email doesn’t indicate whether Pozharskyi was describing a meeting that had already occurred or one intended to occur in the future. Nevertheless, the Post reported that the existence of such a meeting undercut Biden’s long-held assertions that he had no involvement with his son’s business dealings.
    Biden’s campaign would not rule out the possibility that the former VP had some kind of informal interaction with Pozharskyi, which wouldn’t appear on Biden’s official schedule. But they said any encounter would have been cursory. Pozharskyi did not respond to a request for comment.

    whembly (3bda0a)

  22. @17 “may” is doing a lot of work there.

    Not sure what you mean by that. I don’t claim there is any direct evidence. Yet.

    The guy is clearly

    1) a nutcase,

    2) a tinfoil-hatter, and

    3) a fanatical Trump supporter

    People like that would be extremely suggestible if you pushed the right buttons.

    Dave (1bb933)

  23. Biden’s campaign would not rule out the possibility that the former VP had some kind of informal interaction with Pozharskyi, which wouldn’t appear on Biden’s official schedule

    I know you posted this to be critical of Biden since you’re a partisan hack, but it’s honestly kind of refreshing to see a campaign admit the limits of their knowledge, rather than reflexively issuing a denial that’s disproven within the day as the Trump team so frequently does.

    (Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a)

  24. Biden’s campaign would not rule out the possibility that the former VP had some kind of informal interaction with Pozharskyi, which wouldn’t appear on Biden’s official schedule.

    Oh crap. They’ve caught Biden’s campaign being honest again!

    Dave (1bb933)

  25. @18 If you notice, there’s a lot of technical jargon appended at the bottom of that nonsense, apparently to convince people that Complicated Technical Stuff means it is true.

    If you search for snippets of that (for instance, the sentence beginning “the untampered part of the image will have been compressed twice”), you’ll find that copy was cribbed from here:

    https://github.com/AFP-Medialab/invid-verification-plugin/blob/dev/InVIDTraductions.tsv .

    And “Mr. Apelbaum” just slapped his copyright on it.

    Way too many of these scammers apparently don’t think people who do this for a living will see their crap, or more likely they don’t care.

    john (cd2753)

  26. Dave, I’m saying that your conclusion, while possible, isn’t supported by the available data.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  27. @21, So they’re saying they didn’t have a formal meeting, but the could have shook hands at a rope line or something similar. This seems reasonable.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  28. (Not That) Bill O’Reilly (6bb12a) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:02 am

    What if there is one standard, but due to immutable human failings it isn’t applied with perfect consistency across the millions of social media posts being generated every day?

    If this were the case you’d expect something closer to a normal distribution of the errors. The “errors” seem to only go one way.

    What if the standard is perfectly fine and fair in theory, but one side or another so regularly engages in fever-swamp conspiracies that their drivel is disproportionately affected?

    If this were the case you’d still expect some sort of distribution of the errors, just weighted in one direction.

    frosty (f27e97)

  29. @23

    I know you posted this to be critical of Biden since you’re a partisan hack, but it’s honestly kind of refreshing to see a campaign admit the limits of their knowledge, rather than reflexively issuing a denial that’s disproven within the day as the Trump team so frequently does.

    (Not That) Bill O’Reilly (6bb12a) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:33 am

    I don’t know if it’s that big of a deal.

    But your freak outs over this ordeal seems to be that it’s you participating in partisan hackery.

    Frankly, none of these stuff is net new. Sure, it’s interesting, but we KNEW Hunter Biden’s a liability to Joe’s campaign. All this does is bolsters those stuff we already knew about.

    All this going to do is to solidify the base. No one’s mind is going to change over this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    whembly (3bda0a)

  30. He actually verifies data and puts things in context.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  31. I’m saying that your conclusion, while possible, isn’t supported by the available data.

    It wasn’t a conclusion.

    Like Patrick’s original remark

    Do people think it’s a coincidence that the computer was dropped off with someone with such views? Or do they think maybe the Russians (or whoever) had researched this fella before they picked his shop?

    it was obviously speculation.

    Dave (1bb933)

  32. “This is irrelevant old news, which is why I’m relentlessly signal-boosting it.”

    Sure, Jan.

    (Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a)

  33. As usual, this is a pretty good thought.

    Thank you, Dustin. I just think that if Facebook/Twitter are going to err, it should be on the side of not censoring. Consider how this story would’ve played out with a warning label. There would’ve been no serious PR blowback, IMO, yet still communicated the story’s questionable veracity, which puts it back on the NY Post where it belongs.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  34. The fbi received the laptop the same day of the impeachment.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  35. There would’ve been no serious PR blowback, IMO

    Disagree; I distinctly recall similar levels of manufactured outrage when Twitter and Facebook appended less invasive warnings to some of Trump’s factually-inaccurate posts a few weeks ago.

    (Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a)

  36. whembly (3bda0a) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:39 am

    But your freak outs over this ordeal seems to be that it’s you participating in partisan hackery.

    It’s so much more interesting than that. We’ve got commenters who’ve previously ridiculed conspiricay theories jumping into the pool and having a great time. If we’re lucky we’ll get comments were this merges into anti-qanon pro-russian-super-spy comments. Proof has become a flexible concept. Caricitures of characters from Orwell are showing up.

    It’s a free master class in propoganda and spin.

    frosty (f27e97)

  37. @32 Keep handwaving this away bruh.

    It amazes me that for all the sturm and drang over the Trump family using their connections to enrich themselves, ya’ll handwave the same sort of personal enrichments of the Bidens.

    Now who’s engaging in this ‘political hackery’?

    whembly (3bda0a)

  38. @36 Spot on frosty.

    whembly (3bda0a)

  39. Thats why i call it samizdat that the atlantic council and defeat desinfo (another apelbaum deep dive) have tried to block

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  40. Who’s handwaving anything? Biden is a bad candidate with weak policy positions, and his son is a sleazeball. But there’s no evidence that Biden’s policy decisions have ever been affected by Hunter’s shady dealings (if there were, Rudy wouldn’t have needed to cook up this codswallop), and even the most feverish dreams of Biden’s corruption pale in comparison to what the President brazenly does in office every day.

    (Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a)

  41. It amazes me that for all the sturm and drang over the Trump family using their connections to enrich themselves, ya’ll handwave the same sort of personal enrichments of the Bidens.

    Now who’s engaging in this ‘political hackery’?

    You are, because nobody denies that Hunter Biden benefitted from his famous last name, but you said “connections”, suggesting active influence, and “Bidens” (plural), implicating his father, when there isn’t a shred of credible evidence to justify that.

    Dave (1bb933)

  42. I like the way the following was phrased, because the shop owner did acknowledge that he was legally blind…

    “It’s just too perfect. A laptop is dropped off to a blind computer repairman in the name of Hunter Biden — in the middle of a presidential election — that happens to be filled with extensive documents along with videos of sex and drug use and it ends up in the hands of the president’s lawyer, who publicly admits to working closely with a Ukrainian official that the Trump administration itself has sanctioned as a Russian intelligence asset attempting to interfere in the presidential campaign,” said the official, who cannot be named for security reasons.

    It could all be on the up-and-up but, considering the characters involved, better to be skeptical and nail down the facts.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  43. and “Bidens” (plural), implicating his father, when there isn’t a shred of credible evidence to justify that.

    Daddy knew full well his son was grifting off him. But don’t believe your lying eyes.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  44. We know china started building their artificial islands and they took them down in this administration.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  45. Daddy knew full well his son was grifting off him. But don’t believe your lying eyes.

    There is zero evidence.

    But even supposing you were right, Dad was supposed to do … what, exactly?

    How many adults ask for their parents’ permission when making career choices?

    Dave (1bb933)

  46. We know china started building their artificial islands and they took them down in this administration.

    Show me. Which of these were taken down?

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  47. Daddy knew full well his son was grifting off him. But don’t believe your lying eyes.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:08 am

    What’s your point though?

    If you really truly believe that obvious grifting off daddy has no place in our president’s administration, you would vote for Biden over Trump 7 days a week. Jared seizing those masks and ventilators, Ivanka selling Goya beans and getting chinese patents, these people representing our people to world leaders with no qualifications and with embarrassing performance, that’s beyond Hunter sitting on a board because he’s connected to his daddy.

    You can barely even compare them. It’s like a Trump fanatic believing Tara Reade while defending Trump’s own mouth.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  48. But in the end, this seems like a reckless and one-sided action that is going to fuel the suspicion that social media giants are putting their thumbs on the scale in favor of leftists.
    __

    Seems“…….“fuel the suspicion“…….
    _

    Related:

    Ev
    @ev

    Interesting take: Why there’s no bipartisan way forward at this juncture in our history, one side must win. Medium.com…..
    __ _

    Jack
    @jack

    Great read

    April 5, 2018

    https://mobile.twitter.com/redsteeze/status/1316565932991373312
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  49. @49, It’s the good being the enemy of the perfect.

    Time123 (306531)

  50. @51 except in this case those making the perfect the enemy of the good are using that as an excuse to actively embrace the bad.

    (Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a)

  51. Two stories here.

    1. The failure of selective social media outlets to quash a specific story. The attempt merely highlighted the content while spotlighting suspicions about their own biases.

    2. Skepticism. It is healthy but it is also foolish to be so definitively dismissive; history rhymes:

    “Look, there are two thousand reporters in this town, are there five on Watergate? When did the Washington Post suddenly get the monopoly on wisdom? Why would the Republicans do it? McGovern’s self-destructed just like Humphrey, Muskie, the bunch of them. I don’t believe this story. It doesn’t make sense.” – Foreign Editor Scott [John McMartin] ‘All The President’s Men’ 1976

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  52. “ My guess is that Twitter and Facebook would not do this if they thought Trump was going to win, but they see the Biden landslide coming (as does Rupert Murdoch, by the way), and with it the impending Democrat control of Congress . . . and so I doubt they’re terribly concerned about Republicans’ complaints.”
    __ _

    Is this real?
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  53. @54. And the name of the sensationally explosive rubber dummy parachuted into Normandy on D-Day?

    “This… is Rupert.” – ‘The Longest Day’ 1962

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  54. Good post. I hope people notice it.

    DRJ (aede82)

  55. Would be interesting if this story doesn’t just benefit Trump. This could be a story that – if Biden wins and it looks like he will – could give progressives the ammo they need to get Biden to step down and have Harris take over as POTUS.

    Hoi Polloi (7cefeb)

  56. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8838939/Joe-Biden-met-son-Hunters-Ukrainian-energy-contacts.html

    If this story is accurate, and it’s the Daily Mail so that’s basically as reputable as graffiti behind Dunkin Donuts, then Giuliani is musing about releasing thousands of photos of Biden’s nude son. Every journalist who encounters old Law and Order Rudy needs to ask him if Trump approved this kind of attack on his opponent’s son.

    It’s clear Hunter had some serious problems. Biden admitted that and even said he was proud of his son’s efforts to get better. That was a pretty good way to handle this. I don’t see how Trump and Rudy hope to gain even one vote. This seems like desperation and even just reprisal.

    Imagine Hunter was your kid. A screw up, addict, did sleazy stuff. And the person hoping to get your job or promotion starts sending nude pics he found of your son to the office. That is not what the USA should be.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  57. You can barely even compare them. It’s like a Trump fanatic believing Tara Reade while defending Trump’s own mouth.

    If I’m supposed to give up conservative goals on deregulation, judges, immigration, etc. in exchange for bringing back decency to the oval office, it would be awesome if the decency part was actually for realz.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  58. could give progressives the ammo they need to get Biden to step down

    Why would it? I don’t get it. If Ivanka can sell beans and Jared can take my ventilator, why is the line moved so far for Biden?

    if Biden wins and it looks like he will

    It’s not that will win. It’s that Trump will lose. He is so fixated on hurting people he never did his job.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  59. The truly ‘media critical’ story of the day is the ‘competing town halls’ on the NBC and ABC television networks.

    ‘Public service’ vs., raw, ratings racing capitalism on display. Which speaks volumes about what truly matters in thebiz– eyeballs and clicks.

    Trump is right; it is all about ‘the ratings.’

    And it’s a safe bet if Trump draws higher numbers than Biden, he’ll use it as a metric of his popularity w/voters and tell you so loud and clear at every rally.

    ____

    Kamala off campaign trail; two ‘aides’ tested Covid positive.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  60. Kamala off campaign trail; two ‘aides’ tested Covid positive.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:08 am

    The cynic in me wonders, what if they aren’t even sick? What if this is a way to get a headline to contrast with Trump not caring about it? It’s not like Harris polls that well. They definitely get more out of this outcome than from a few tiny events.

    Trump makes it so easy to look good, you really wonder why he was elected. (I know I know, Ronald Reagan did it).

    Dustin (4237e0)

  61. in 1987

    Dustin (4237e0)

  62. @62. You said it, I didn’t.

    She projects poorly on television; hot and caustic in a cool medium.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  63. You can barely even compare them. It’s like a Trump fanatic believing Tara Reade while defending Trump’s own mouth.

    If I’m supposed to give up conservative goals on deregulation, judges, immigration, etc. in exchange for bringing back decency to the oval office, it would be awesome if the decency part was actually for realz.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:05 am

    That’s a really good point…Biden’s bad. But the areas where he’s at his worst are areas where he’s dramatically better then Trump. I’ll be Pence would win by 15 points.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  64. The only administration that has seriously challenged putin in ayria in the ukraine et al in at least 12 years,

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  65. @58. Imagine Hunter was your kid. A screw up, addict, did sleazy stuff. And the person hoping to get your job or promotion starts sending nude pics he found of your son to the office. That is not what the USA should be.

    LOL. Apparently you’ve never heard of Charles Colson; or Donald Segretti… or Lee Atwater.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  66. “That is not what the USA should be.“

    No, the USA should be Twitter and Facebook performing Chinese-style censorship based on politics and not worrying about it if they think Biden/Harris will be in charge of the Executive and the Dems in charge of the Congress.”

    Once again from our host:

    “My guess is that Twitter and Facebook would not do this if they thought Trump was going to win, but they see the Biden landslide coming (as does Rupert Murdoch, by the way), and with it the impending Democrat control of Congress . . . and so I doubt they’re terribly concerned about Republicans’ complaints.”
    _

    Vote for this by all means….
    _

    harkin (d8affe)

  67. DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:26 am

    2016 was a great reset. It makes it much easier to make a “worst ever” claim.

    frosty (f27e97)

  68. Here’s an example

    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1316801262277455872

    Trump appears to be implying that the US marshals murdered a suspect and he’s bragging about it. I think it’s likely that Trump is lying. But it’s still horrifying to think that we’re OK with LEO executing a man. I think a president that doesn’t normalize this is a better choice.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  69. LOL. Apparently you’ve never heard of Charles Colson; or Donald Segretti… or Lee Atwater.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:26 am

    I’ve heard of one of them! What do I get?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  70. She projects poorly on television; hot and caustic in a cool medium.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:22 am

    I don’t like her at all. I actually really dislike Biden. Watching Sam Donaldson take him apart is convincing that he’s got zero character.

    These guys ain’t the cure, but I’m going to roll the dice on them over the worst president in our history. The Taliban, the KKK, Putin, and the fat Proud Boys guy who prefaces everything with ‘I’m not a racist, but’ all agree that I should not vote for Biden.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  71. @69. The Hoover family is likely relieved.

    But it doesn’t help to have framed, glowing notes from The Big Dick hang in your office. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  72. @72. Watching Sam Donaldson take anybody apart was a joy. All the more reason to remind ‘folks’ how poor frustrated editorial cartoonist Jake Tapper is as a “journalist.”

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  73. @71. What do I get?

    More of the same.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  74. No, the USA should be Twitter and Facebook performing Chinese-style censorship

    I think you guys have a point, only because if this were an october surprise equally disgusting and idiotic, but against Team R, they would leave it up.

    But Twitter is not a communist dictator. It’s just some company. They don’t have to trade on dumb last second stories obviously inented to change the outcome of an election without actually being accurate. They don’t have to trade on the Trump administration attacking an opponent’s family.

    In fact, if you really have a problem with the government controlling speech, you probably shouldn’t support Trump, whose response to Twitter exercising its rights is to threaten them.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  75. @49

    Jared seizing those masks and ventilators, Ivanka selling Goya beans and getting chinese patents, these people representing our people to world leaders with no qualifications and with embarrassing performance,

    Let’s see if we can unpack this nonsense.

    Jared seizing those masks and ventilators — the masks were not “seized,” they were held by the federal government, who paid for them. The purpose was to ensure that there would be flexible supply that could be used around the country as needed. Had all of them been horded by, say, New York, as its Governor wanted, then patients in other states might have been deprived or delayed in receiving that equipement. So what Jared did was completely correct. Shame on those who snarkly criticized him.

    Ivanka selling Goya beans — Ivanka did not “sell” them, she posed with a can. This was after boycotts were called against the company when its president praised Trump. I doubt she made a penny off it.

    and getting chinese patents — they were trademark registrations, not patents. For us IP lawyers that makes a difference.

    And what were those trademarks, pray tell? IVANKA TRUMP. She had many registrations for various goods and services all for the same mark, her friggin name. She registered trademarks >of her own name, a common practice for famous people in a country where piracy and counterfeiting are rampmant. The notion that this would compromise national security is laughable.

    these people representing our people to world leaders with no qualifications and with embarrassing performance — You mean like the recent normalization of relations between Israel and two Arab countries, something that 20 years of work by the experts could not achieve? Or the healthy focus on China as an economic and security rival, something admininstrations of both parties have ignored? Or the Serbia-Kosovo treaty?

    The Trump Administration has had foreign policy successes and failures like any other, but I don’t think they have done worse than the last admininstration.

    The Iran deal that the Democrats hope to revive is a major, boneheaded negative, that really would have compromised the security of the United States, regardless of what John Kerry and 100 State Dept. experts think. Trump gets lots of pluses in my book for ditching it.

    So try not to repeat trite talking points.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  76. the masks were not “seized,” they were held by the federal government, who paid for them.

    Sure sounds like a textbook definition of a taking to me.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  77. And you and I paid for them. Jared took ’em, you paid, and maybe your loved one died.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  78. BL, I want to focus on 1 part of this: Ivanka’s trade marks in China. They were a thing of value. She’d wanted them for a while. The Chinese government gave them to her after her father won the election. Sounds like a gift to curry favor to me. I think she had a moral right to them. But China isn’t a place where that’s how such things are decided.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  79. In fact, if you really have a problem with the government controlling speech, you probably shouldn’t support Trump, whose response to Twitter exercising its rights is to threaten them.

    Trump threatened to treat them like any other publisher in a free country.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  80. I know some of you don’t like Andy McCarthy, but he does a great job sucinctly describing why this is a story:
    https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/10/the-hunter-emails-report/

    The Hunter Emails

    A corrupt Ukraine firm reportedly got direct access to then-vice president Joe Biden through his son.

    According to a 2015 email, then–vice president Joe Biden met with a top executive at Burisma, the Ukrainian energy firm that paid Biden’s son, Hunter, $50,000 a month to sit on its board. Earlier, the Burisma executive had asked Hunter to use his influence to quell Ukrainian government officials who were trying to extort the company. Months later, Vice President Biden coerced the Ukrainian government into firing a prosecutor who says he was gearing up an investigation of Burisma.

    Remarkably, with less than three weeks to go before the presidential election pitting Vice President Biden against President Trump, and with Americans already casting their ballots, the mainstream media, along with Facebook and Twitter, are suppressing the Post’s report. As Reason’s Robby Soave explains, reporters who have reported on it — even critically — have been denounced by other journalists and progressive groups. (Read NR’s editorial on Big Tech’s intervention in the whole affair here.)

    Late last year, the FBI took possession of the laptop pursuant to a grand-jury subpoena, the Post recounts.

    Vice President Biden has insisted repeatedly that he had no involvement in Hunter’s foreign business dealings and never even discussed them with his son.

    Yet, in an email on April 17, 2015, Vadym Pozharskyi, the Burisma executive, thanked Hunter for arranging a meeting for him with the vice president in Washington. A few months later, Vice President Biden squeezed the Ukrainian government to fire its prosecutor general, Viktor Shokin, who maintains that his office was preparing to investigate Burisma. Shokin was fired after the vice president threatened to withhold desperately needed American government aid.

    Recounting his December 2015 meeting in Kyiv with Ukraine’s then-president, Petro Poroshenko, and then-prime minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, Joe Biden has explained his threat to withhold $1 billion in aid to Ukraine’s financially strapped government:

    I looked at them and said: “I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money.” Well, son of a bitch, he got fired!

    The former vice president related the incident during a 2018 speech to the Council on Foreign Relations.

    Biden and his supporters have insisted that the Obama administration wanted Shokin fired because he was corrupt and European leaders wanted him out. Biden claims that threatening to withhold American aid in order to pressure Ukraine to act had nothing to do with a personal political agenda involving Hunter or Burisma.

    President Trump was impeached by House Democrats for threatening to withhold American aid in order to pressure Ukraine to act in furtherance of a personal political agenda.

    Burisma is a notoriously corrupt energy company founded by Ukrainian oligarch Mykola Zlochevsky. It was recently implicated in a $6 million bribery scheme (apparently long after Hunter Biden severed ties with Burisma). The firm retained Hunter Biden to join its board of directors in April 2014, paying him lavishly even though he had no experience in the energy sector. At the time, his father, the vice president, was the Obama administration’s point man on Ukrainian policy.

    If the laptop evidence is to be believed, on May 12, 2014, shortly after Hunter Biden joined the Burisma board, Pozharskyi sent an email to Hunter Biden and his business partner, Devon Archer. In it, Pozharskyi explained that Ukrainian officials were pressuring the company — specifically, they were seeking “cash” payments from a man identified in the email as “N.Z.” The initials very likely refer to Zlochevsky, whose first name is rendered in English as Nicholas.

    Pozharskyi reminded Hunter that he had informed Hunter on previous occasions that Ukrainian government officials, in unofficial “communications” that “entail blackmailing” N.Z., had indicated that if Burisma did not “cooperate,” N.Z.’s gas-production business would be destroyed by regulatory and other intimidating government action.

    Pozharskyi told Biden and Archer:

    We urgently need your advice on how you could use your influence to convey a message / signal, etc .to stop what we consider to be politically motivated actions. [sic.]

    On the same day as the email, Burisma publicly announced that Hunter Biden had joined its board and would be running its “legal unit and will provide support for the Company among international organizations.” The Post notes that Hunter Biden’s lawyer has claimed that Hunter was never in charge of Burisma’s legal affairs.

    Four months after the email and the Burisma announcement, the Post reports, Archer forwarded to Hunter an email about the impact of new Ukrainian tax legislation that Pozharskyi said “would kill the entire private gas production sector.”

    Devon Archer, Biden’s partner, is a former senior adviser to John Kerry, a close friend and confidant of Joe Biden’s. Kerry served for decades with Biden in the Senate and was secretary of state for the last four years of the Obama administration. Archer was the college roommate of Kerry’s stepson, Christopher Heinz. Last week, a federal appeals court in Manhattan reinstated Archer’s 2018 fraud and conspiracy convictions, arising out of a scheme involving the sale of $60 million in bonds issued by an economic-development corporation affiliated with a native American tribe. Hunter Biden was implicated in the evidence but not charged in the case. The appellate court’s ruling reversed a decision by U.S. District Judge Ronnie Abrams, who had ruled that a jury would not be able to convict because there was insufficient evidence of intent.

    On April 17, 2015, Pozharskyi expressed gratitude to Hunter for arranging a meeting for him with Vice President Biden in Washington, D.C. As his email states:

    Dear Hunter, thank you for inviting me to DC and giving an opportunity to meet your father and spent [sic] some time together. It’s really an honor and pleasure. As we spoke yesterday evening, would be great to meet today for a quick coffee. What do you think? I could come to you [sic] office somewhere around noon or so, before or on my way to airport. Best, V

    As related above, it was in December 2015 that Vice President Biden threatened to withhold the American aid from Ukraine if it did not fire the prosecutor.

    Zlochevsky was aligned with Viktor Yanukovych, the Russia-friendly Ukrainian president driven from power amid the Euromaidan protests that began in late 2013. The uprising was actively supported by the Obama administration. After Yanukovych fled to Moscow in early 2014, the new government, under Poroshenko, was deeply beholden to the Obama administration and American aid.

    The emails outlined by the Post are said to have been stored on the hard drive of a laptop computer that appears to be Hunter Biden’s. The laptop, a MacBook Pro, is said to have been brought to a repair shop in Delaware in April 2019. The shop owner, whose name has not been reported, could not identify Hunter Biden as the customer. But the Post says the laptop bore a sticker from the Beau Biden Foundation — named after Hunter’s brother (the vice president’s older son, who is deceased).

    I get that there’s some dispute to claims of Joe Biden’s motives were because the prosecutor was corrupt and not pursuing the corruption in Ukraine.

    But the prosecutor himself said in a sworn affidavit that he believes he was pushed out because of Biden’s intervention and that he, the prosecutor, was indeed looking into Burisma:
    https://heavy.com/news/2019/09/viktor-shokin-affidavit-biden/

    He alleges, “The truth is that I was forced out because I was leading a wide-ranging corruption probe into Burisma Holdings…a natural gas firm active in Ukraine. Jose Biden’s son, Hunter Biden, was a member of the Board of Directors. I presume Burisma, which was connected with gas extraction, had the support of the US Vice President Joe Biden because his son was on the Board of Directors.”

    He claimed that Poroshenko asked him to consider winding down the investigation but he refused to close it. He claimed Poroshenko told him if he didn’t stop investigating Burisma the US via Biden would refuse to release the money.

    Additionaly, the following local story leads credence to the claim that Shokin was in fact investigating Burisma, beyond his own word, was that there was an attempt by Shokin’s office to seize properties of the Burisma founder, Mykola Zlochevsky, as this article from the Kyiv Post on Feb. 4, 2016 shows:
    https://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/court-seizes-property-of-ex-minister-zlochevsky-in-ukraine-pgo-407348.html
    On its face, that looks like an investigation.

    whembly (3bda0a)

  81. Trump threatened to treat them like any other publisher in a free country.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:01 pm

    No, he actually was very vague about his threat, kinda like a dictator would be. Ominous, not a fan of due process as usual. This is a guy who just bragged that the US Marshalls didn’t want to take a guy in so they just killed him (of course this is a slur on the Marshalls). This is a guy who warned his IRS will get his foes.

    He has absolutely not ever implied he will treat his supportive media, the guys he puts medals on, like the ones bleeding out of their wherevers.

    It is honestly really amusing how hard y’all are trying. I am sure you are all good people, who love America, to fight so hard to ‘clear the record’ for Donald Trump and his corrupt family who have stolen from you. You’re just misguided. You will see the light in a few years.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  82. @78 and 79

    You are being silly. If the federal government holds onto proprety it paid for, that is not a “taking.” Under any textbook. And Jared did not take the equipment for himself, he had the federal government hold onto them so that they could be distributed as needed. Which is why the government acquired them in the first place. Giving them all to New York so they could rot in a warehouse while someone in Michigan needed them would have been the height of irresponsibility. So despite your hysterical rhetoric, I see nothing wrong here.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  83. I get that there’s some dispute to claims of Joe Biden’s motives were because the prosecutor was corrupt and not pursuing the corruption in Ukraine.

    Has anyone from the US State Department stated that removing Shokin wasn’t official US policy, or that Biden was pushing it to be US policy for improper reasons?

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  84. @80

    BL, I want to focus on 1 part of this: Ivanka’s trade marks in China. They were a thing of value. She’d wanted them for a while. The Chinese government gave them to her after her father won the election. Sounds like a gift to curry favor to me. I think she had a moral right to them. But China isn’t a place where that’s how such things are decided.

    As a trademark lawyer, I don’t deny that trademark registrations have value. But I see no evidence that the issuance of these registrations were anything other than routine actions of the Chinese Tradaemark Office. The same trademark holding company owns twenty-three U.S. registrations for her name or slight variations thereof. (You can do a search at the PTO trademark search website.

    Keep in mind that these are intangible rights — that’s why they are called intellectual property. It’s not like China gave her a trunk full of gold doubloons. It secured her own name within its sovereign territory from misuse by pirates and con-artists.

    Trump has been the most anti-China president in my lifetime. You seriously think that her acquiring trademark registrations there is going to alter U.S. foreign policy?

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  85. Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:05 pm

    It is honestly really amusing how hard y’all are trying. I am sure you are all good people, who love America, to fight so hard to ‘clear the record’ for Donald Trump and his corrupt family who have stolen from you. You’re just misguided. You will see the light in a few years.

    Ah, I live the smell of snark and condescension in the morning.

    frosty (f27e97)

  86. @87

    It’s afternoon on the East Coast, buddy.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  87. @85

    I get that there’s some dispute to claims of Joe Biden’s motives were because the prosecutor was corrupt and not pursuing the corruption in Ukraine.

    Has anyone from the US State Department stated that removing Shokin wasn’t official US policy, or that Biden was pushing it to be US policy for improper reasons?

    Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:09 pm

    In a round-a-bout way… yeah. Numerous states officials warned of conflicts of interests between Biden’s actions and his son’s work with Burisma.

    whembly (3bda0a)

  88. @BL, Articles like this from forbes make it appear as if foreign governments are providing trademarks as a way to curry favor. The key factor to me is that they’re happening faster then they otherwise would

    I’m not saying that Trump is basing his policy on these types of gifts. I don’t think he is. But giving someone a thing of value in exchange for goodwill is corrupt. It was corrupt when Burisma hired hunter Biden and it looks corrupt here. Neither looks illegal to me BTW. But I’m not a IP lawyer and would value your considered opinion. Do you think these would have been given regardless? Does the improved timing look suspicious to you?

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  89. Bored Lawyer (7b72ec) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:21 pm

    It doesn’t smell as well in the afternoon.

    frosty (f27e97)

  90. In a round-a-bout way… yeah. Numerous states officials warned of conflicts of interests between Biden’s actions and his son’s work with Burisma.

    whembly (3bda0a) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:23 pm

    There have been numerous concerns about the appearance of a conflict. Which I think is 100% valid. I’m not aware of anyone that’s said removing that prosecutor wasn’t in the interest of the US. In fact Senator Johnson signed a letter calling for exactly that in 2016. Further state department officials have testified that it removing that prosecutor was in the US interest and was US policy because he wasn’t investigating corruption.

    I don’t think Joe Biden did anything wrong here. I think the people trying to imply he did are cherry picking data and omitting pertinent facts that have been known the whole time.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  91. David Mack
    @davidmackau
    ·
    APNEWSALERT: NEW YORK (AP) — C-SPAN suspends political editor Steve Scully indefinitely after he admits he lied about his Twitter feed being hacked

    __ _

    Did we ever get a post about this?
    __

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  92. Trump is so obviously horrible that Team Biden and the media feel the need to double team him in a debate on the sly.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  93. @93

    In a round-a-bout way… yeah. Numerous states officials warned of conflicts of interests between Biden’s actions and his son’s work with Burisma.

    whembly (3bda0a) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:23 pm

    There have been numerous concerns about the appearance of a conflict. Which I think is 100% valid. I’m not aware of anyone that’s said removing that prosecutor wasn’t in the interest of the US. In fact Senator Johnson signed a letter calling for exactly that in 2016. Further state department officials have testified that it removing that prosecutor was in the US interest and was US policy because he wasn’t investigating corruption.

    I don’t think Joe Biden did anything wrong here. I think the people trying to imply he did are cherry picking data and omitting pertinent facts that have been known the whole time.

    Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:28 pm

    …and yet, the prosecutor, under oath, stated that he was investigating Burisma and was fired because of it.

    You, of all posters, regularly pound the drums given credence to statements made in courts or under oath. Why are you dismissive of this?

    whembly (3bda0a)

  94. APNEWSALERT: NEW YORK (AP) — C-SPAN suspends political editor Steve Scully indefinitely after he admits he lied about his Twitter feed being hacked

    Good for them.

    If he filed a false police report, I hope they throw the book at him.

    Dave (1bb933)

  95. Too bad we can’t hold the President of the United States to the same standard.

    Dave (1bb933)

  96. @93

    David Mack
    @davidmackau
    ·
    APNEWSALERT: NEW YORK (AP) — C-SPAN suspends political editor Steve Scully indefinitely after he admits he lied about his Twitter feed being hacked
    __ _

    Did we ever get a post about this?
    __

    harkin (7fb4c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:34 pm

    This is one of those “good things” with Trump being president as we all can dispense with the notion that any of these debate moderators are unbiased.

    In future debates, each campaign should pick their respective ideological moderator. So that there’s 2 moderators per debate and each can ask questions driven by their perspectives.

    whembly (3bda0a)

  97. one finds that the newspapers don’t actually read the source materials, neither apparent does subject area specialist vindman, in his report, stephen mcintyre did yeoman work on the whole privat/burisma matter,s

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  98. its sad, because scully seemed even keeled, then the mindstone affected him, or he got the brain bug from scaramucci,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  99. Do you think these would have been given regardless? Yes. The fact that it is her own name, and that she already has 23 US registrations (and who knows how many in other countries) suggests to me this would have happened regardless.

    Does the improved timing look suspicious to you?

    I don’t know the basis for the claim that there was improved timing. The Forbes article states:

    the trademarks she applied for after her father became president got approved about 40% faster than those she requested before Donald Trump’s victory in the 2016 election

    Now I am not a Chinese trademark practitioner, but I can tell you that if this were the U.S., I would see nothing wrong. For three reasons:

    (1) There is always a random factor in how fast things go through a bureaucracy.

    (2) In general, the USPTO has gotten much more efficient. My boss commented to me the other day that it used to take 5 to 6 months to get the first response from the Trademark Office, it now takes 2 to 4 months. Much of that has to do with the fact that virtually everything is done on-line now.

    I can’t say if the Chinese Trademark Office is the same, but it would not shock me.

    (3) Most important. Trademark applications generally cite prior applications the same person or comnpany has received. And if you already have the same trademark for other goods (or a very similar trademark for the same goods), that goes a long way towards convincing the Examiner to grant you what you want.

    If I were prosecuting (that’s IP lawyer slang for applying for) Ivanka Trump’s trademark portfolio in the U.S., I would completely expect the first registration to take significantly more time than the tenth. That’s just the way it works — by the tenth time, the Examiner sees that you already have nine registrations for IVANKA, or I IVANKA, and you want one more (lets say, she had IVANKA TRUMP for clothing, and now wants the same mark for “Online social networking services in the field of fashion, lifestyle, motivation, inspiration and self-improvement obtained through social media posting”, which is exactly what happened in the U.S.), so why not?

    So subject to Chinese practice being different than U.S. practice, the answer is no.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  100. . If the federal government holds onto proprety it paid for, that is not a “taking

    Oh yeah it is, absolutely. Most 4th amendment seizures are returned. Did the original purchasers even get this stuff? Did they drop it in the grave or something?

    A receipt or a payment actually show it’s a taking rather than disprove it.

    It’s a taking. And Jared wasn’t elected to screw this up so bad.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  101. “its sad, because scully seemed even keeled, then the mindstone affected him, or he got the brain bug from scaramucci”

    He sure does seem even keeled but I’m now thinking he probably thinks that’s his best feature.

    He always seemed like a talking mannequin to me who bias-wise seemed too good to be true.

    Now we know he was.
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  102. BTW, just to be a trademark nerd for a moment, you may have noticed that a trademark registration is for a particular trademark, with respect to particular goods and services. That’s because trademarks are only owned relative to a particular ongoing business. In the words of the Supreme Court, a trademark is not an indepedent right, but merely a right “appurtenant” to an ongoing business.

    This is why the same mark can be used by diffrent companies in different industries. DELTA is the registered trademark for an airline company, a plumbing supply company, and a dental insurance company.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  103. Breaking- CSPAN SUPENDS STEVE SCULLY AFTER HE ADMITS LYING ABOUT TWITTER HACK.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  104. @96.So what have you learned; don’t be so quick to dismiss the NY Post story.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  105. Just think how much easier it is for me to defend my view on Scully, that I thought he was full of it from the beginning.

    Same as with Biden and Trump, by not carrying water for anybody, I can just say what I honestly believe and never have to change. I never have to explain why the president’s kid is a sleaze or a crook, Jared, Ivanka, Hunter, I don’t carry water for them and I don’t disrespect myself.

    At worst, maybe I’m naive to expect anything better, and maybe I conflate the bad people with a bad system, but it is so difficult to ethically parse that, and it’s also just flat dumb. We can be better.

    We will spend decades, many even centuries, talking about the folly of Trump, the fool who got himself sick and killed so many of his people, propped up by our enemies as the best weapon the USSR ever developed.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  106. This is one of those “good things” with Trump being president as we all can dispense with the notion that any of these debate moderators are unbiased.

    Except what Scully did wasn’t even bias. Dumb? Yes.

    He asked – publicly – for advice from someone who had worked for Trump in the past, about whether to respond to Trump’s public attacks on he and his family. And response was, “Nah, just ignore it.”

    If you want the moderator to be unbiased, is demonizing them in the week before the event a sensible strategy?

    Dave (1bb933)

  107. Scully is/was the head of the White House Correspondents Association too.

    This plays right into the Trump ‘fake news’ framework.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  108. @96.So what have you learned; don’t be so quick to dismiss the NY Post story.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:52 pm

    Nah. We already knew about Hunter. The story is really only noteworthy in how low Trump and Rudy can go, publishing nude pics of their opponent’s son and women who definitely didn’t sign up for this. Anyone buying these last second October surprises as important news, rather than news about the campaign that held onto the story, has already picked a side. I expect this story to actually hurt Trump pretty bad.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  109. Anyone want to explain why the president is apparently implying to the good people of Greenville NC that the US Marshals straight up murdered a guy and that he’s down with that?

    Nic (896fdf)

  110. He asked – publicly – for advice from someone who had worked for Trump in the past, about whether to respond to Trump’s public attacks on he and his family. And response was, “Nah, just ignore it.”

    If you want the moderator to be unbiased, is demonizing them in the week before the event a sensible strategy?

    Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:54 pm

    This is a pretty fair point, Dave. Once again Trump gets away with crap no one really should, because we expect him to be awful. All Scully had to do was be straight about what he was doing and he’d be fine. It must be terrible for Trump to attack his family, and he’s used this against a lot of people for a long time because he’s a piece of s—. But Scully handled it by lying. Like with Chris Wallace, Scully was not up to the task of moderating or handling Trump. Anyone who does probably should just not have family.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  111. Anyone want to explain why the president is apparently implying to the good people of Greenville NC that the US Marshals straight up murdered a guy and that he’s down with that?

    It’s what Putin would do?

    Dave (1bb933)

  112. Anyone want to explain why the president is apparently implying to the good people of Greenville NC that the US Marshals straight up murdered a guy and that he’s down with that?

    Nic (896fdf) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:58 pm

    It’s a slur on law enforcement that fuels the hatred of cops out there, that when a bad guy is shot, the cops had planned for it as a ‘don’t let them get it for free’ ‘can’t beat the ride’ kind of justice. That does happen. And bad cops should not be encouraged by the president at this point when that profession is going through enough.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  113. APNEWSALERT: NEW YORK (AP) — C-SPAN suspends political editor Steve Scully indefinitely after he admits he lied about his Twitter feed being hacked

    Holy moly. Did not see this coming.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  114. @108

    If you want the moderator to be unbiased, is demonizing them in the week before the event a sensible strategy?

    Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:54 pm

    Not sensible…no.

    But, as recent history shows… most of these moderators are anything but unbiased. So, why perpetuate this nonsense? Simply give each campaign their favorite moderator and go with it.

    I’d watch the hell of a debate if Biden chosen someone like Toure, and Trump chose Dana Loesch.

    whembly (3bda0a)

  115. Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:09 pm

    Has anyone from the US State Department stated that removing Shokin wasn’t official US policy, or that Biden was pushing it to be US policy for improper reasons?

    No, but nobody said, as they should have, unless they could legally only respond to questions, that Biden lied in his appearance at the Council on Foreign Relations on January 23, 2018, about singlehandedly getting the prosecutor fired.

    Was the story that Joe Biden told about the cancelled, or nearly cancelled, press conference
    true?

    If only George Kent had been asked that question!

    OK, now. Removing the Prosecutor General was not a crucial element of U.S. policy on Ukraine. And Joe Biden didn’t clam it was in is January 23, 2018 appearance at the Council on Forie=eign Relations. Cruciak, ad tied to the loan guarantees was the Ukrainian Parliament passing a whole package of anti-corruption legislation. And when they finally did in June 2016. (Viktor Shokin was forced to quit in March and replaced in April) the $1 billion in loan guarantees announced.

    At a press conference in Kiev where Joe Biden was not present but the then outgoing U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Ross Pyatt, was.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  116. Except what Scully did wasn’t even bias. Dumb? Yes.

    Dumb? No- not if you’re in the bag for a plagiarist.

    Biased? Yes.

    All a journalist has is credibility. Blow that and you’re toast. Ask Brian Williams. The hand of God was at work in this one– good thing the debate was cancelled. Brian Lamb won’t tolerate this crap at CSPAN, either.

    The debate commission is done.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  117. Holy moly. Did not see this coming.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:00 pm

    The problem is Scully used his phone to send the tweet. It was probably known to twitter in five minutes that this was no hack. Twitter gets hacked so they have people who can look into high profile things like this. It was the kind of lie that you can’t get away with.

    Something about Scully, on those cspan panels with the callers from both sides, has always struck me as weak and reactive. The lie was a panicked and thoughtless decision. Trump would have told a grander yet vaguer lie that put someone else on defense. Of course Trump was already doing that, attacking Scully, creating the drama.

    Seems that everything Trump touches turns to failure. If a thug bullies a weak person, and laughs that he won, I don’t really think that’s endearing. ‘But he fights.’

    Fortunately, unless Trump’s USPS shenanigans are much worse, he is about to have to fight some election results.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  118. Because the evidence that he’s lying is overwhelming. Go look at the news reports from 2015 and 2016. I’ll put one below.

    Because Trumps controlled the State Department for 3 plus years and no one has provided evidence that firing this prosecutor wasn’t US policy. I recall in the impeachment hearings that testimony was provided that it was.

    There are contemporaneous statements from GOP officials asking for reforms to the prosecutor generals office.

    Because the only evidence that he was planning to do that investigation is a affidavit in Austria. This is better than an anonymous source. But I don’t know that he’s under risk of prosecution for perjury. Have him come to the US and testify to this under oath. Have senator Johnson (who called for his removal in 2016) get someone from state to testify.

    If that was the only evidence I’d accept it. But it’s not. There’s a TON of other evidence.

    Here’s a NYT piece from 2016.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/world/europe/political-stability-in-the-balance-as-ukraine-ousts-top-prosecutor.html

    Since his appointment a year ago, Mr. Shokin had been criticized for not prosecuting officials, businessmen and members of Parliament for their roles in corrupt schemes during the government of former President Viktor F. Yanukovych.

    Here’s the letter portman released in 2016
    https://www.portman.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/portman-durbin-shaheen-and-senate-ukraine-caucus-reaffirm-commitment-help

    If you read the link you provided you’ll find a lot of other sources telling you the guy was corrupt and wanted to go.

    Time123 (ca85c9)

  119. @114 So in the last two weeks he’s manged to needless endanger the secret service, denigrate the DOJ (although IMO Barr does deserve some heat, but, you know, in the opposite direction), and insult the US Marshals. He’s also, in the recent past, insulted the entire officer staff of all the branches of the military and the FBI. I don’t think anyone needs to worry about Trump overstaying his welcome if he loses in November. He’s alienated almost all the groups that could possibly help him do so.

    Nic (896fdf)

  120. The problem is Scully used his phone to send the tweet.

    No.

    The ‘problem’ was Scully himself.

    You just witnessed a man w/a family destroy his career. Maybe e thns he’ll get a gig in the Biden administration– but don’t hold your breath.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  121. All a journalist has is credibility. Blow that and you’re toast. Ask Brian Williams. The hand of God was at work in this one– good thing the debate was cancelled. Brian Lamb won’t tolerate this crap at CSPAN, either.

    The debate commission is done.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:06 pm

    I think the first part here is firm but fair.

    I do not understand why the debate commission is done. Trump has definitely waged war against the idea of fair debates ever since Biden crushed him and sealed his election win, but all they really need to do is be accountable. If they could put the few conservative pundits or journalists who aren’t crazy zealots on there, it would help. That is hard to do because of the corrosion in conservative sellout media.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  122. Notorious #nevertrumpers Sean Spicer and Karl Rove say they believe Scully:
    ….
    Sadly, nobody capable of independent, critical thought is pure enough for Trump and his cultists…
    Dave (1bb933) — 10/10/2020 @ 12:00 pm

    LOLOLOLOLOL

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  123. so you’re still whining about that black bloc thug, that got his just deserts after murdering a trump supporter, had someone put two bullets in a well known anarchist some 30 years ago, the world would have turned out a better place,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  124. No.

    The ‘problem’ was Scully himself.

    You just witnessed a man w/a family destroy his career. Maybe e thns he’ll get a gig in the Biden administration– but don’t hold your breath.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:11 pm

    I was talking about the technical problem with Scully’s lie, why it was disproven. Because of the consistency between the tweets, the pattern, and how easy it would be to show where it came from, up to the cell tower or router, the lie was hopeless.

    Yes, of course, it is also wrong to tell lies, but catch up, DCSCA… I was taking Scully to task for the ethics of it like ten minutes after he actually (and in my opinion obviously) lied.

    And note, you’re supporting Trump’s election while telling us dishonesty is wrong.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  125. @124. It’s sad the Swamp has seeped into CSPAN’s offices. And remember, a percentage of your cable/phone/gadget company fees pays for CSPAN.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  126. Ketchup, Dustin- Heinz Country is the battle ground.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  127. @124. It’s sad the Swamp has seeped into CSPAN’s offices. And remember, a percentage of your cable/phone/gadget company fees pays for CSPAN.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:14 pm

    It is sad. The whole field of journalism has become hopelessly partisan. I only took one journalism class and I dropped it on the second day when the prof made partisanship an element of the class. Trump didn’t just happen. When pro journalists became unreliable, shoddy crook journalists occupied the niche that left on the right. There are good guys, but they don’t stand a chance.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  128. Ketchup, Dustin- Heinz Country is the battle ground.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:15 pm

    🤨

    Dustin (4237e0)

  129. @125 Nope, I’m whining about Trump going around proudly telling people the US Marshals are murderers.

    And you are Americaning badly again. The appropriate law enforcement response to crime is to arrest the suspected criminal (if possible) and put him/her on trial, not shoot them in the face. (I am not saying this is what the US marshals did. I am responding to your comment saying that doing such a thing is a good idea.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  130. And note, you’re supporting Trump’s election while telling us dishonesty is wrong.

    No, Dustin: support the neutering of the modern ideological conservative movement. It’s win/win either way. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Welcome to 1964.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  131. Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:28 pm

    I don’t think Joe Biden did anything wrong here.

    I don’t think Joe Biden did anything at all here.

    He lied. He made up the whole story. It’s not like that’s something unprecedented for Joe Biden.

    https://www.cfr.org/event/foreign-affairs-issue-launch-former-vice-president-joe-biden

    …And I went over, I guess, the 12th, 13th time to Kiev. And I was supposed to announce that there was another billion-dollar loan guarantee. [check the agenda]

    And I had gotten a commitment from Poroshenko and from Yatsenyuk that they would take action against the state prosecutor. And they didn’t.

    So they said they had—they were walking out to a press conference. I said, nah, I’m not going to—or, we’re not going to give you the billion dollars. They said, you have no authority. You’re not the president. The president said—I said, call him. (Laughter.) I said, I’m telling you, you’re not getting the billion dollars. I said, you’re not getting the billion. I’m going to be leaving here in, I think it was about six hours. I looked at them and said: I’m leaving in six hours. If the prosecutor is not fired, you’re not getting the money. Well, son of a bitch. (Laughter.) He got fired. And they put in place someone who was solid at the time.

    whembly (3bda0a) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:38 pm

    …and yet, the prosecutor, under oath, stated that he was investigating Burisma and was fired because of it.

    He lied, too.

    And not in an American court.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  132. Trump recently bragged about Reinoehl’s killing being “retribution”:

    “This guy was a violent criminal, and the U.S. Marshals killed him,” the president told Fox News. “And I will tell you something, that’s the way it has to be. There has to be retribution when you have crime like this.”

    The NYTimes had a piece Monday presenting evidence that Trump isn’t kidding about ordering an execution, either (probably paywalled):

    ‘Straight to Gunshots’: How a U.S. Task Force Killed an Antifa Activist

    Mr. Louis, a carpenter and former U.S. Army medic, watched his son ride his bike with his younger brother and a neighborhood friend. Around the corner, Chad Smith and two friends, Chase Cutler and Jon Chastain, were wrapping up an afternoon spent working on cars.

    Mr. Reinoehl left the apartment and walked toward his Volkswagen, parked along the street roughly 100 feet away. Two officers positively identified Mr. Reinoehl, who proceeded to start the car, said Lieutenant Brady, who shared some of the initial findings of the investigation with The New York Times. They decided to make an immediate arrest, the officers told investigators, in part to avoid a high-speed chase.

    Mr. Smith said he and his friends turned their heads to the sound of a vehicle accelerating rapidly, headed southbound toward the street where Mr. Reinoehl was walking. A second law enforcement S.U.V., which had been parked across from Mr. Smith’s house, moved in with such speed that the friends thought they were witnessing a road rage incident or a gang shooting.

    Mr. Smith and Mr. Cutler ran after the unmarked S.U.V.s, watching as they turned onto Mr. Reinoehl’s street, one cutting the corner and speeding over the grass.

    Nate Dinguss, who according to Lieutenant Brady lived in the apartment where Mr. Reinoehl was staying, said Mr. Reinoehl was chewing a gummy worm as he approached his station wagon, with a phone in one hand and a bag in the other.

    Mr. Dinguss said in an interview that officers began jumping out of the vehicles before they had come to a complete stop, and that one of them opened fire immediately, before any commands had been given. Another man who was walking his dog nearby said that a burst of about 10 gunshots began almost immediately after the S.U.V.s came to a halt, and that he did not recall hearing any commands. Mr. Louis, who was on the other side of the scene, some 140 feet from Mr. Reinoehl, also said the police opened fire immediately, without giving any warnings — as did Mr. Smith and Mr. Cutler.

    “There was no, ‘Get out of the car!’ There was no, ‘Stop!’ There was no nothing. They just got out of the car and started shooting,” Mr. Louis said.

    Mr. Smith described it similarly: “There was no yelling. There was no screaming. There was no altercation. It was just straight to gunshots.”

    Of the 22 people interviewed by The Times who said they were near the shooting when it occurred, only one man reported hearing any shouting before the gunshots began.

    That man, Quentin Gruner, whose apartment is about 75 feet away, said he was letting his dog out when he heard shouting that he thought was neighbors having a fight, followed by a popping noise.

    […]

    In all, four officers fired 37 rounds from two rifles and two handguns, the investigators said.

    A visit to the scene by a reporter, as well as videos and photos from the aftermath, showed that at least eight of the officers’ bullets struck civilian property.

    Angel Romero, who lives directly adjacent to the shooting, said at least five bullets hit a brick wall and a wooden fence at his home. One traveled through an exterior wall and passed above his dog kennels and through his dining room — narrowly missing his brother before lodging in a kitchen wall. Mr. Romero’s neighbor found a smashed bullet in his backyard grass.

    “They literally found ricochet bullets where my kid was,” Mr. Louis said.

    Reinoehl was shot through the window of his car, and then tried to flee on foot.

    The police gave a number of conflicting reports, one saying he pointed a gun at them, but his gun was found in his pocket, with his hand on it, where he fell. The coroner said the final fusillade probably killed him instantly.

    Dave (1bb933)

  133. 132. DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:18 pm

    Welcome to 1964.

    When Lyndon Johnson was the liar? He became notorious later for having a “credibility gap.”

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  134. My prediction stands: Trump squeaks out a win by 3 points or so; or it’s a President Harris within 24 months. Biden is irrelevant.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  135. But the prosecutor himself said in a sworn affidavit that he believes he was pushed out because of Biden’s intervention and that he, the prosecutor, was indeed looking into Burisma.

    That “sworn affidavit” was before an Austrian court, in defense of a Kremlin-connected Ukrainian billionaire kleptocrat, Mr. Firtash, spoken in Russian and translated to English so that hack “journalist” John Solomon can carry water for Trump and try to take Biden down, and so that Giuliani can wave the document around on cable news. The document is worthless. There remains no evidence that Shokin was doing what he claimed, i.e., investigating Zlochevsky/Burisma/Biden.
    The attorneys defending Mr. Firtash are DiGenova-Toensing, who did legal legwork for Giuliani, and they legally represent Solomon as well as both of the fired prosecutors, Shokin and Lutsenko. It’s just one big happy legal family, filled with corrupt and sketchy.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  136. @136

    Senile drool; leaky Depends.

    Glorious.

    Dave (1bb933)

  137. After playing the “I got hacked” card, Scully now plays the “attacks on my family” card:

    “For several weeks, I was subjected to relentless criticism on social media and in conservative news outlets regarding my role as moderator for the second presidential debate, including attacks aimed directly at my family,” Scully wrote in a statement to CNN. “This culminated on Thursday, October 8th when I heard President Trump go on national television twice and falsely attack me by name. Out of frustration, I sent a brief tweet addressed to Anthony Scaramucci. The next morning when I saw that this tweet had created a controversy, I falsely claimed that my Twitter account had been hacked.”

    Trump didn’t “falsely attack” you, Steve. He read you like a book.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  138. Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:19 pm

    The imagery in the article is very well done.

    with such speed that the friends thought they were witnessing a road rage incident or a gang shooting … Mr. Reinoehl was chewing a gummy worm as he approached his station wagon … before they had come to a complete stop … opened fire immediately

    It paints a picture. I’d rather he was arrested without any gunfire. Do you think there’s anyway that could have happened?

    frosty (f27e97)

  139. No, Dustin: support the neutering of the modern ideological conservative movement. It’s win/win either way. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Welcome to 1964.

    Glorious.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:18 pm

    I know you have your reasons. Obviously I disagree that those reasons could justify Trump. But at least this makes sense. Trump’s conservative supporters are badly miscalculating. Immigration is a third rail now. The deficit is comically higher than it was with Bush or Clinton.

    I think the death should temper your enthusiasm. Deaths overall in our country are up 20%. No argument about COVID hoaxes can protect Trump from his record of killing Americans with incompetence and corruption, letting his moron kids run the response to a crisis.

    And maybe I’m naive, but the GOP was already standing in the way of meaningful conservative reform. What if Trump goes too far in his destruction, clearing the path for a better party’s future?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  140. After playing the “I got hacked” card, Scully now plays the “attacks on my family” card:

    He’s had time to think. Instead of lying he’s telling the truth. Trump should stop attacking families, releasing nude pics of his opponent’s son, accusing an opponent’s dad of murder, calling wives ugly. Trump, in short, needs to stop being a baby.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  141. whembley, there’s way less than meets the eye with Zlochevsky. There was no investigation. It was a court ruling to seize property, renewed at the end of the year because of a change in the law.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  142. My prediction stands: Trump squeaks out a win by 3 points or so; or it’s a President Harris within 24 months. Biden is irrelevant.

    DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:22 pm

    That’s much very bold as far as predictions go. Trump wins or Biden wins. Gotcha.

    I agree that one of those two outcomes will occur.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  143. lisa page was trying to extradite him for some bribes he was doing in india, I guess like igor danchenko, they would turned him into a subsource, even though he was a suspected russian spy,

    bolivar de gris (7404b5)

  144. He’s had time to think. Instead of lying he’s telling the truth.

    Without the FBI investigation, he’d still be lying.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  145. He joy reided himself.

    Bolivar di griz (7404b5)

  146. Without the FBI investigation, he’d still be lying.

    Trump supporters very concerned about lying again!

    Dave (1bb933)

  147. Without the FBI investigation, he’d still be lying.

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:46 pm

    Agreed

    Dustin (4237e0)

  148. Andy Ngô
    @MrAndyNgo
    ·
    @cspan announces it is temporarily suspending political editor @SteveScully after he confessed that he had lied about his Twitter being hacked into in an exchange with Anthony Scaramucci.

    Scully was set to moderate the 2nd presidential debate.
    __ _

    Brian Stelter
    @brianstelter

    A true WTF, what-was-he-thinking moment… causing real damage to the national news media’s reputation
    __ _

    Omri Ceren
    @omriceren
    ·
    If that’s your concern, let me put your mind at ease: all things considered, not even top 3 most damaging things this week. I’m not even sure top 3 in the last 48 hours.

    _

    Meanwhile…….

    Thomas Rid
    @RidT
    ·
    Relax. Twitter and Facebook are not the internet, and they’re not the government. These are private companies. A little bit like a supermarket asking you to wear a mask. You can just stay out or leave if you don’t like it.
    __ _

    Joe Gabriel Simonson
    @SaysSimonson

    This argument remains bizarre because the question is whether these companies are
    A. Monopolies abusing their power, which opens them to regulators.
    B. Whether their conduct constituted an in-kind contribution to Biden.
    C. Whether they’re entitled to special sec. 230 protections

    _

    Kinda sorta
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  149. It’s also weird to imagine the tweet is legitimate.
    No high-profile professional journalist would ask a random hack like Scaramucci (of all people) whether he should respond to Trump’s rantings, much less do it publicly on Twitter less than a week before the debate he was supposed to moderate.
    Dave (1bb933) — 10/10/2020 @ 11:08 am

    In one of the previous incidents when he claimed to hacked, a series of ads for some weight-loss product were posted in his name. That doesn’t sound to me like someone trying to hide behind a false hacking claim.
    Dave (1bb933) — 10/10/2020 @ 11:21 am

    So you think he secretly posted ads for some weight-loss scam himself, and covered it up by falsely claiming he was hacked?
    Otherwise, why would poor password security disqualify him from moderating a debate?
    Dave (1bb933) — 10/10/2020 @ 11:40 am

    beer ‘n pretzels (042d67)

  150. beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:59 pm

    Yes, and your point?

    Dave (1bb933)

  151. You deny it is baffling why he asked Scaramucci, of all people, for advice, and why he did so publicly?

    Dave (1bb933)

  152. Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 2:02 pm

    You deny it is baffling why he asked Scaramucci, of all people, for advice, and why he did so publicly?

    You’re moving the goalposts. If beer ‘n pretzels’ quote is correct

    It’s also weird to imagine the tweet is legitimate.
    No high-profile professional journalist would ask a random hack like Scaramucci (of all people) whether he should respond to Trump’s rantings, much less do it publicly on Twitter less than a week before the debate he was supposed to moderate.
    Dave (1bb933) — 10/10/2020 @ 11:08 am

    isn’t you saying it’s baffling. It’s you arguing that it didn’t happen.

    frosty (f27e97)

  153. I don’t watch television, so I had never even heard of the guy before Trump and his hyenas started attacking him.

    It sounds like he was not used to being a lightning rod for partisan attacks, and not prepared to deal with it suddenly.

    That doesn’t excuse lying and pushing our poor, beleaguered country even further into the abyss, though.

    Dave (1bb933)

  154. isn’t you saying it’s baffling.

    It certainly is.

    It’s you arguing that it didn’t happen.

    No, it’s me arguing that it’s weird to imagine the tweet is legitimate, for the reasons I gave.

    I claimed no factual knowledge of what happened. I said it made no sense if the tweet was his.

    And I was right.

    Dave (1bb933)

  155. This argument remains bizarre because the question is whether these companies are
    A. Monopolies abusing their power, which opens them to regulators.

    They’re not
    B. Whether their conduct constituted an in-kind contribution to Biden.
    It isn’t
    C. Whether they’re entitled to special sec. 230 protections
    They are

    Easy questions.

    Davethulhu (1ebef9)

  156. Joe Lockhart
    @joelockhart

    FACT — if Steve Scully says he didn’t send it you can take it to the bank. Period. Anyone who questions him or makes accusations is a damn liar.
    __ _

    Lisa Bridges
    @lizaB1909

    Seems like something Trump’s Russian pals might have done to give him another excuse not to participate in the debate.
    __ _

    Shaner
    @shaner 5000

    The Russians made Scully lie!
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  157. @145. Dustin, it’s a win/win– always have said that.

    Welcome to 1964. :-)

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  158. One would think years of crack usage could destroy your short term memory.
    He probably forgot about it on the way to the massage parlor -10 minutes later.

    mg (8cbc69)

  159. Obviously I disagree that those reasons could justify Trump.

    Why did JFK back Nixon in his Congressional run back in the day; plenty of reasons not to ally w/Stalin, too. Except, you know– Hitler.

    The enemy of my eneny is my friend.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  160. @162. That Post pix of him passed out w/a crackpipe dangling from his lips is a keeper for the family album. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  161. Off-topic, but…
    Here’s what Giant of the Senate Sasse said in a telephone townhall that somebody (probably the questioner) recorded, telling the unvarnished truth about the present situation.

    “The way he kisses dictators’ butts. I mean, the way he ignores that the Uighurs are in literal concentration camps in Xinjiang. Right now, he hasn’t lifted a finger on behalf of the Hong-Kongers,” he said. “The United States now regularly sells out our allies under his leadership, the way he treats women, spends like a drunken sailor. The ways I criticize President Obama for that kind of spending; I’ve criticized President Trump for as well. He mocks evangelicals behind closed doors. His family has treated the presidency like a business opportunity. He’s flirted with white supremacists.”

    Here’s his take on Trump’s handling CV19:

    “But the reality is that he careened from curb to curb. First, he ignored covid. And then he went into full economic shutdown mode,” Sasse said. “He was the one who said 10 to 14 days of shutdown would fix this. And that was always wrong. I mean, and so I don’t think the way he’s led through covid has been reasonable or responsible, or right.”

    The full YouTube audio is here, and there’s a lot more harsh criticism. However, in public, he’s a loyal Trump fanboy, with maybe an occasional gripe here and there. Maybe he didn’t want the rest of his constituents to “panic”.

    Paul Montagu (77c694)

  162. Davethulhu (1ebef9) — 10/15/2020 @ 2:24 pm

    A. Monopolies abusing their power, which opens them to regulators.

    Yep

    B. Whether their conduct constituted an in-kind contribution to Biden.

    Yep

    C. Whether they’re entitled to special sec. 230 protections

    Nope

    Yep. Easy questions.

    frosty (f27e97)

  163. @129. Thank Reagan and his his rabid deregulating righties for shelving the Fairness Doctrine. Hence competing town halls on two different networks tonite. Aka: Reaganomics.

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  164. Oo, Oo, are we going to talk about trust busting now!?! Oh. Just facebook and twitter? That have no tangible resources? And are not required by anyone? And don’t cost anything to use? And have alternatives? Oh. OK. Well. Parler away. I guess.

    Nic (896fdf)

  165. @168. …And don’t cost anything to use?

    Free? Tell me where to get free computers, free smartphones, free internet access, etc. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  166. “Yep. Easy questions.”

    Monopoly in what?

    Definition of an in-kind contribution

    Why are they not covered under sec 230?

    Davethulhu (1ebef9)

  167. Nic (896fdf) — 10/15/2020 @ 3:15 pm

    are not required by anyone?

    Not a blocker to anti-trust regulation.

    don’t cost anything to use?

    Assuming you mean individual consumers this isn’t a blocker either.

    no tangible resources

    Not a blocker.

    And have alternatives

    Simply having an or some alternatives also isn’t a protection from anti-trust regulation either.

    There’s no need to get wrapped up about trust-busting yet though. Let’s see where the 230 stuff goes.

    frosty (f27e97)

  168. My guess is that Reinold was a federal “undercover informant” who went too far and he needed to be silenced.

    nk (1d9030)

  169. @170 Try the library. I hear it’s nice. Quiet too.

    @172 It’s mickeymouse. (actually it’s not. Mickey Mouse is far far more powerful than facebook, but it is smallball for antitrust stuff.)

    Nic (896fdf)

  170. Davethulhu (1ebef9) — 10/15/2020 @ 3:24 pm

    Why are they not covered under sec 230?

    Being covered under 230 is a policy decision. What policy is served by it? I’m ok with private companies doing their thing but I don’t see any value in the 230 protections.

    frosty (f27e97)

  171. @174. Last time we checked, libraries aren’t “free;” tax $ finance ’em. 😉

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  172. @176 Your personal contribution to a local library computer is miniscule and if all you use is the library system and average the cost per website you visit you’d have to have an electron microscope to see it. It’s nothing. You might as well say losing your discarded skin cells cost money/cell.

    Nic (896fdf)

  173. @177. Shorter: it’s not ‘free.’

    DCSCA (797bc0)

  174. @178 Nope, it’s free. Your cost would count so far less than a penny that you would have to count it in molecules of copper. You can’t pay something so far less than a penny, so you pay nothing at all. It’s free.

    Nic (896fdf)

  175. Byron York
    @ByronYork

    NBC actors, producers protest network’s decision to air Trump town hall tonight at same time as Biden’s on ABC. They want you to know that, ‘This is not a partisan issue. This is about the political health of our democracy.’ OK.
    __ _

    Ron Wikso
    @ronwikso
    ·
    So none of them have DVRs? Or YouTube? Or Google? Or any form of social media where there will almost certainly be links to where they can watch both shows afterwards?

    What century are they living in?
    __ _

    Cathy
    @Cathyblue
    ·
    Hulu let’s me record anything in the cloud. Maybe somebody should share all this new, exciting technology with employees of NBC. Or send them a VHS player, if 21st Century technology escapes them.
    __ _

    Mark
    @TwinRoots28
    ·
    So wait, they’re *okay* with us deciding who becomes President, but we can’t decide for ourselves which channel to watch?

    __

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  176. White House was warned Giuliani was target of Russian intelligence operation to feed misinformation to Trump

    U.S. intelligence agencies warned the White House last year that President Trump’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani was the target of an influence operation by Russian intelligence, according to four former officials familiar with the matter.

    The warnings were based on multiple sources, including intercepted communications, that showed Giuliani was interacting with people tied to Russian intelligence during a December 2019 trip to Ukraine, where he was gathering information that he thought would expose corrupt acts by former vice president Joe Biden and his son Hunter.
    …….
    The warnings to the White House, which have not been previously reported, led national security adviser Robert O’Brien to caution Trump in a private conversation that any information Giuliani brought back from Ukraine should be considered contaminated by Russia, one of the former officials said.
    …….
    …….The information that Giuliani sought in Ukraine is similar to what is contained in emails and other correspondence published this week by the New York Post, which the paper said came from the laptop of Hunter Biden and were provided by Giuliani and Stephen K. Bannon, Trump’s former top political adviser at the White House.
    ……
    Hook, Line, and Sinker! Don’t cry for Rudy!

    Rip Murdock (d2a2a8)

  177. “A campaign spokesman for Arizona Democratic Senate candidate Mark Kelly apologized Thursday for a tweet he wrote just before joining the campaign that called police “worthless f–ing pigs.”

    T.J. L’Heureux, Mr. Kelly’s deputy press secretary, called police “worthless f–ing pigs” in response to a video that showed Chicago police clashing with protesters in August. He joined Mr. Kelly’s campaign one week later.

    The Washington Free Beacon first reported the tweet Thursday morning, prompting Mr. L’Heureux to delete the tweet and lock his account.“

    https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/oct/15/mark-kelly-campaign-spokesman-apologizes-for-calli/
    _

    harkin (7fb4c9)

  178. “Being covered under 230 is a policy decision.”

    No it’s not. It’s a law that applies to essentially all internet forums.

    Davethulhu (1ebef9)

  179. > The Trump Administration has had foreign policy successes and failures like any other, but I don’t think they have done worse than the last admininstration.

    I suppose success is defined by goals, so perhaps, if the intent was to:

    – Gift Russia a massive influence boost in the middle east;

    – Waste enormous resources not really accomplishing much on stupid sanctions games with China;

    – Throw away goodwill and soft power with European allies;

    – Make our dedication to democracy abroad a lie (hope nobody in Hong Kong was foolish enough to believe us).

    …hey, as Baby Bush said, “Mission Accomplished.”

    john (cd2753)

  180. “Being covered under 230 is a policy decision.”

    No it’s not. It’s a law that applies to essentially all internet forums.

    All laws passed by Congress are policy decisions. Congress can change its mind and alter or repeal that law.

    Bored Lawyer (7b72ec)

  181. My first thought was that someone paid two strippers to steal phone computer credit cards… problem with that is American strippers would talk, but some Russian girls? Ship them home right after.
    Not likely, but fun to think about.
    I think Putin prefers Kamala in this race Trump moving troops to Poland and badgering Germany to drop Russian natural gas, building NATO up.
    Trump is a pain in the ass

    steveg (43b7a5)

  182. So, I have a good faith question to those who don’t think the Biden emails has any legs.

    Here’s one of the email in question:
    From: Robert Biden
    To: Gongwen Done

    My Understanding is that the original agreement with the Director was for consulting fees based on introductions alone a rate of $10M per year for a three year guarantee total of $30M. The chairman changed that deal after we me in MIAMI TO A MUCH MORE LASTING AND LUCRATIVE ARRANGEMENT to create a holding company 50% percent owned by ME and 50% owned by him. Consulting fees is one piece of our income stream but the reason this proposal by the chairman was so much more interesting to my and my family is that

    whembly (2900b2)

  183. @187 gots dang it I submitted it too soon! LET’S TRY THIS AGAIN.

    One moment please….

    whembly (2900b2)

  184. So, I have a good faith question to those who don’t think the Biden emails has any legs.

    Here’s one of the email in question:

    From: Robert Biden
    To: Gongwen Done

    My Understanding is that the original agreement with the Director was for consulting fees based on introductions alone a rate of $10M per year for a three year guarantee total of $30M. The chairman changed that deal after we me in MIAMI TO A MUCH MORE LASTING AND LUCRATIVE ARRANGEMENT to create a holding company 50% percent owned by ME and 50% owned by him. Consulting fees is one piece of our income stream but the reason this proposal by the chairman was so much more interesting to my and my family is that we would also be partners inn the equity and profits of the JV’s investments. Hence I assumed the reason for our discussion today in which you made clear that the Chairman would first get his investment capital returned in the profits would then be split 50/50. If you saying that is not the case then please return us to the original deal 10M per year a guaranteed 3 years plus bonus payments for any successful deal we introduce. let’s discuss thank you.

    Now, here’s my first question: Does this even concern you? You have a Chinese Communist Political actor in a lucrative relationship with the Bidens.

    Second question: Here’s your chance to legit ‘whatabout’… can you provide a similar situation, with hard facts, that the Trump family is making bank “based on introductions alone” as Robert Biden stated. (ie, pay-to-play schemes)

    whembly (2900b2)

  185. Robert Biden looks corrupt as all get out.
    I expect he used his proximity to power to his own personal benefit.
    I haven’t seen evidence where Joe did anything corrupt as part of this.

    Time123 (b4d075)

  186. @190 Add to the fact that Hunter was on the board of Burisma. Hunter knew squat about energy but was put there in 2014—earning $50k/month. He was there to sell access, allegedly, to top Obama officials. Which by all account Burisma got that…while Joe Biden being the point-person for all things Ukraine as VP.

    It’s a pattern that’s awfully hard to ignore.

    It’s the same vein of what the Clinton’s did with respect to the Clinton Foundation.

    I noticed you didn’t answer my second question. Why not?

    whembly (2900b2)

  187. Oh, Trump’s fans are mad about another relative of Trump’s opponent? Knock me over with a feather.

    They look like crooks, whembly. No need for whatabouts. You already anticipated them because the Trump record is so bad on this.

    And really, this whole thing misses the point. Trump’s main argument, with people already voting, is ‘look at the kid of my opponent’. That’s what he’s got. He doesn’t have any accomplishments. Trump failed on the budget promise, the wall promise, the obamacare promise, and even his oath to protect his country. Trump has had a few crises he could run on, if he hadn’t handled them poorly.

    So for 2-3 weeks I guess we’ll hear about Biden’s family, how rotten, probably ugly they are, as Rudy distributes the nude pictures of these people he managed to acquire. That’s the argument for voting for Trump. Go right ahead if that wins you over.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  188. If you read the comments on this blog far enough back, some of y’all were actually convinced Ted Cruz’s dad murdered JFK. Same kind of tabloid sourcing, same stupid, transparent motive, and some of y’all bought it. And that was Trump’s argument for being our president. That his opponent’s family look bad in a tabloid.

    Trump is retweeting theories that Obama murdered the Navy SEALs to cover up Osama Bin Laden being alive.

    Why do you guys give these kinds of arguments the time of day? This is Trump’s last chance to make the case for himself. When the squishes stare at their ballot, they will see Trump and have no reason to vote for him, because he hasn’t even tried to give them one.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  189. @192 The point I’m trying to make with you guys is that the things you complain about Trump…Biden/Kamala has just as bad or worst characteristics.

    If you strip away WHO they are and focus on the agendas that they would advance… then, your choice becomes simplified.

    Do you want to return to the Obama era way of doing things, with liberal agendas and a more progressive judiciary? Then, be a Democrat and vote for the Biden/Harris ticket.

    If you don’t want to see that, as I definitely don’t, then the only other alternative is to vote for the Trump/Pence ticket and for the GOP.

    That’s not to say that voting for either tickets endorses the vices of the candidates.

    We don’t “worship” our leaders.

    We’re faced with options for someone to become a caretaker at the head of the executive branch, and as such what policies they would advance.

    I know you tried Dustin, but none of your arguments is persuasive that Joe Biden would be a better President than Trump. However, since your animus towards Trump is off the chart, you seem to be willing to *pay* any price, so long at Trump is defeated. That’s fine buddy…just is it’s fine that I think differently than you.

    😉

    BTW, how’s the little tyke doing? How’s your wife doing? Hope you’re getting enough sleep! 😀

    whembly (2900b2)

  190. @192 The point I’m trying to make with you guys is that the things you complain about Trump…Biden/Kamala has just as bad or worst characteristics.

    OK, I know you believe that and it’s a legitimate point to make six months ago. But these slimy attacks on the family of his opponents are the only reliable thing about Trump.

    What’s the argument to vote for Trump? He’s a billion dollars in debt according to recent reports. He’s screwing everything up. Why vote for him? You said a lot of words but is there a reason in there why Trump did a great job?

    Dustin (4237e0)

  191. Vote for Trump because ‘Maybe Biden will be bad like Trump was’. Maybe all that stuff with Ivanka and China, Jared and ventilators, maybe Biden will be bad like Trump in that particular area!

    Dustin (4237e0)

  192. 135. Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:19 pm

    Reinoehl was shot through the window of his car, and then tried to flee on foot.

    This kind of thing happens when somebody is portrayed as extreme;y dangerous.I highly doubt there was any back channel from high up to the policemen who shot and killed him.

    For the kind of thing that top officials may indeed be directly responsible for see today’s New York Times editorial against Rod Rosenstein (because he followed orders on immigration.) It’s actually asigned Op-ed piece by Jennifer Senior but appears in the place where an editorial would.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/15/opinion/rod-rosenstein-family-separation.html

    Of course all that that goes to prove is that immigration laws are inhumane – not distortions of them but the laws themselves, although Trump and Sessions may have gone beyond what the law requires. It didn’t require them to neglect to keep records so they could reunite children later with families. Of course other laws also get distorted by prosecutors.

    I’m talking about Rod J. Rosenstein. Years from now, I think we should remember the men and women like him, and the role they played in this administration’s vilest deeds….t’s start by calling this policy what it really was: A state-directed effort to intern immigrant children, some exceptionally young — so young that they were still breastfeeding, so young that they were preverbal, so young that they were not yet aware of their parents’ names. To wrench these children from their mothers and fathers and detain them for months on end required a bureaucracy, with cruel architects at the top — specifically, the former attorney general, Jeff Sessions, and Stephen Miller, Trump’s senior policy adviser — and a dedicated pyramid of helpers directly below.

    Rosenstein, the former deputy attorney general, was close to the peak of that structure….On a conference call with the Justice Department in the spring of 2018, five U.S. attorneys from our border states — three of them Trump appointees — expressed their alarm about the “zero tolerance” policy of prosecuting all undocumented immigrants, even if it meant separating them from their sons and daughters. One, John Bash, specifically said he’d declined to prosecute two such cases, because they involved children under the age of 5.

    Rosenstein was the one who told him he was wrong to do so. (“Those two cases should not have been declined,” Bash wrote to his staff immediately following the phone call.) There was no categorical exemption based on age. Even parents with babies could be prosecuted….Rosenstein’s complicity in this machine was ugly, but it was by no means unique…Gelernt told me that he had to make a hard strategic decision when arguing his case against the Trump Justice Department. In order to get families reunited quickly, he was not going to challenge the administration’s right to prosecute these immigrants. He accepted that they broke the law. And like any American parent who breaks the law, he accepted that they typically had to be separated from their children while in jail.

    Instead, his argument was this: The jail time for these misdemeanors was usually a matter of days. So why were these parents not being reunited with their children afterward? “What became clear,” he told me, “is that they never had any intention of reuniting them until the parent gave up and was deported, if ever.”

    The federal judge in San Diego agreed, saying the government’s behavior “shocks the conscience,” that the separation policy violated due process and that all separated families had to be reunited within 30 days.

    But what galls Gelernt now, after seeing the Times report about the inspector general’s investigation, is that his suspicions were right all along: Separating families was the objective of the Trump administration’s zero-tolerance policy, not a byproduct. The children were the targets of the policy, not collateral damage. “We need to take away children,” Sessions reportedly told the local U.S. attorneys….President Barack Obama responded by building more detention facilities and holding families indefinitely — though still together — and faced a legal backlash.

    But Trump’s policy was something altogether different. It was child abuse, plain and simple…

    …In a separate letter to The New York Times, Rosenstein took care to note that he was not responsible for developing the “zero tolerance” policy; he merely clarified what it meant. “I correctly told U.S. Attorneys that the Attorney General did not want them to decline cases for categorical reasons,” he wrote, “but I expressly advised U.S. Attorneys that they were NOT required to prosecute every immigration defendant arrested by the Department of Homeland Security.”

    It’s a very cautious, lawyerly statement. But note what Rosenstein did not deny: That he refused his U.S. attorneys permission to automatically exempt undocumented immigrants with young children from prosecution. In his letter, Rosenstein also said that any claims that “I did not care how young the children were, or that I ignored concerns about the children’s welfare are unequivocally not true.”

    But if Rosenstein really harbored concerns about the family separation policy, why wasn’t he noisier about them in public? He could have registered his objections and left. He did have other options. He has a degree from Harvard Law….

    ….But what we have lately learned about Rosenstein is that he is a very canny political operator. He has a gift for threading needles that even a tailor would envy.

    While serving in the Trump Justice Department, for instance, he wrote a memo recommending the removal of James Comey as the head of the F.B.I., and he later defended his boss, William Barr, after he misled the public about the results of the Mueller investigation. But he also had the presence of mind to appoint Robert S. Mueller in the first place — and, though he has denied it, to question Trump’s own presence of mind. (It has been reported that he suggested secretly recording Trump’s ravings in order to expose him as unfit to lead.)

    So Rosenstein is not a caricature of a villain, necessarily. You might even say he’s a man of a rather banal morality. But when push came to shove, he seems to have done exactly what it took to survive in the Trump Justice Department — which was to tell U.S. Attorneys that they should not decline to prosecute undocumented immigrants just because those immigrants had very young children….

    ….Courageous civil servants. They’re our best defense against tyranny, against autocracy, against government-perpetrated crimes.

    Yet when it was Rosenstein’s turn, he did nothing to stop government-orchestrated cruelty. Instead, he simply did his job….

    You would think Rod Rosenstein was running for Congress.

    By the way, notice one thing: This is all coming from the independent (albeit partial) press.

    There’s not a word from the official Democratic Party about immigration policy.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  193. I’m convinced, whembly. Hunter Biden sold out his dad’s name to make a buck, but he did say he would divest from the foreign entities he was doing business with if his dad is elected.
    There is no evidence that Joe Biden was engaged in any Hunter’s business dealings, or had more than passing knowledge.
    There is no evidence of a meeting between VP Biden and this Ukrainian character.
    There is no evidence of any criminality by Hunter or his dad.
    There is no evidence that Shokin was investigating anything related to Zlochevsky/Burisma/Hunter at the time he was sacked.
    There is evidence that Hunter is a black sheep in the Biden clan, made more pronounced because his dead brother was the rising star who would follow in Joe’s footsteps. We should actually pray for Hunter, that he’ll eventually turn life around, not expose his personal life like the NY Post has been doing.
    Meantime, there remain a ton of questions about the laptops that ended up in a blind guy’s computer repair storefront.

    Paul Montagu (fbcd32)

  194. Here’s another reason to write in Larry Hogan for president.

    Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan (R) said he “voted for Ronald Reagan” in this year’s election, writing in the name of the late president and conservative icon after concluding that he could support neither President Trump nor Democratic nominee Joe Biden.

    That’s how anti-Trump Republicans should do it. Looks like he’ll be a candidate in 2024, when he’ll be 68.

    Paul Montagu (fbcd32)

  195. Time123 (b4d075) — 10/16/2020 @ 7:56 am

    I haven’t seen evidence where Joe did anything corrupt as part of this.

    There is supposed to be some email where Robert Hunter Biden writes to his children (actually just his daughter Naomi) that he won’t ask for half of their salary like Pop does.

    https://www.oann.com/rudy-giuliani-cites-reportedly-leaked-text-revealing-hunter-bidens-alleged-corruption

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZasrHQeKiY&feature=youtu.be (hat 5 minutes into the video)

    Rudy Giuliani truly believes that. He says he is not making this up.

    I am not clear that this comes from the laptop.

    But, we can guess, it was supplied by Vladimir Putin’s agents.

    It can’t be right. It’s highly unlikely that Hunter Biden gave any money to his father.. He needed money. He wasn’t supporting his father for 30 years. Giuliani says that Hunter paid for his sister’s college education ???

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  196. My memory could be off, but wasn’t the Ukraine cleaning house trying to get into the europeon union at the time Joe hiden threatened them? Wouldn’t that be some sort of World crime with a sentence of life in a basement.

    mg (8cbc69)

  197. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/15/us/politics/giuliani-russian-disinformation.html (last year)

    Robert C. O’Brien, the national security adviser, presented the warning about Mr. Giuliani to Mr. Trump in December. Two former officials gave conflicting accounts about its nature. One said the report was presented to Mr. Trump as unverified and vague, but another said the intelligence agencies had developed solid and credible information that Mr. Giuliani was being “worked over” by Russian operatives.

    Mr. Trump shrugged it off, officials said, but the first former official cautioned that his reaction could have been colored in part by other information given to him not long before that appeared to back some of Mr. Giuliani’s claims about Ukraine. The specifics of that material were unclear.

    That excerpt from the talk Joe Biden gave to the Council on Foreign Relations on Jan 23, 2018?? Or something separate?

    The warning, the second former official said, was prompted by a meeting on Dec. 5 between Mr. Giuliani and Andriy Derkach, a Ukrainian member of Parliament who takes pro-Kremlin positions. The Treasury Department recently labeled him “an active Russian agent for over a decade,” disclosing that he maintained ties to Moscow’s intelligence services as it imposed sanctions on him in September.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  198. There is supposed to be some email where Robert Hunter Biden writes to his children (actually just his daughter Naomi) that he won’t ask for half of their salary like Pop does.

    Biden’s sinister like a fairy tale villain, stealing from his kids. OK.

    Rudy Giuliani truly believes that. He says he is not making this up

    No, he does not believe it.

    One thing that really troubles me is how good most of the Trump fans I know in person are. They are good people, taken advantage of. A lot of the ones I know also liked Jerry Falwell Jr, give to the NRA, and they only watch media that keeps the money flowing. I don’t know any of the white supremacist ones personally, though I’ve definitely interacted with them (and they are not good, of course).

    Trump, Rudy, and Putin, Qanon, wikileaks, they all know how to inspire anger from good people. That guy who was willing to fight a pizza parlor to save the children being enslaved? Isn’t that a noble heart on some level? Willing to die, ruin his life, to protect children? Trump voter through and through.

    This idea that Biden’s rubbing his hands together and demanding his kids money is intended to anger people who love their own kids. I bet Russia has some kind of focus group system to perfect disinfo. Good liars believe it on some level, but they have to know they are lying or they say the wrong stuff. At one point Rudy even warned Trump he had dirt (probably this scheme’s planning is what he was referring to). They are all scared of each other.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  199. Yesterday the Walll Street Journal had two editorials about censorship.

    One was about the German Marshall Fund claiming that there more decptive outlets on Facebook than in 2016 and including in their list Fox News. The other one was about Amazon refusing to publish a
    documentary by Shelby Steele entitled “What Killed Michael Brown?”

    Let’s say it has some inaccuracies, (because it shows opinions) how many inaccuracies in material that claims Michael Brown was an innocent victim go unchallenged?

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  200. @195

    @192 The point I’m trying to make with you guys is that the things you complain about Trump…Biden/Kamala has just as bad or worst characteristics.

    OK, I know you believe that and it’s a legitimate point to make six months ago. But these slimy attacks on the family of his opponents are the only reliable thing about Trump.

    These are gutter politics.

    Where were you when “slimy attacks” were leveled at the Trumps?

    Gutter politics has been around for as long as I can remember (since back to the Reagan era), and historically.

    Sure, I wish we could have a “clean” debate of ideas between parties, but it’s hubris to ignore the unsavory aspects of our politics.

    What’s the argument to vote for Trump?

    Plenty…I’ll get to that in a sec.

    He’s a billion dollars in debt according to recent reports.

    Just over $400 million actually, it’s all in his public disclosures. Newsflash, he can sell his NY Trump tower property to cover that debt.

    He’s screwing everything up.

    Not everything… hyperbole much?

    Why vote for him? You said a lot of words but is there a reason in there why Trump did a great job?

    Dustin (4237e0) — 10/16/2020 @ 8:43 am

    I’m not saying Trump did a “great job”.

    I’m saying…look at the alternative. (I’m going crib some of the ideas from that NR article)

    Do you want Mike Pompeo running our foreign policy? …or the likes of Susan Rice?

    Should we continue rebuilding our armed forces, particulary to respond to the ascendend Chinese expansions? Or, revert to the Obama/Biden program of hollowing out the armed forces and appeasing our adversary?

    Should we continue with that economic and financial stewardship of Larry Kudlow, or the confiscatory authoritarian of Bernie Sanders and the “Squad”??

    Should we continue with our current trajectory of being self-statainable energy policies, which leads the world in reduce our carbon footprint (mostly due to increases in natural gas)…or, do we have the likes of John Kerry (one of Biden’s best friend) to reinstitute the Paris Climate Accord and have us in track to implement the destructive Green New Deal policies of the radical extremist of the Democratic party?

    Should we empower the likes of Eliz Warren, a Biden ally, to reimage capitalism and markets under the government’s control and facilitate Democrat’s grievance politics?

    I know you despise AG Bill Barr… but, would you be okay with AG Keith Ellison?

    Is there any doubt that Biden may not last the full 4 years? Are you okay with President Harris? A senator ranked as THE MOST LIBERAL of all the Senators????

    Have I scared you enough?

    Or better yet, here are things that Trump *did* do right.
    -pushed/got tax cut
    -pushed/got more originalist/conservative judges (to me, this is #1 as I’m looking at the long game)
    -moved embassy to Jerusalem
    -got NATO to commit to their obligations
    -got peace momentum going in mid-East
    -obliterated ISIS
    -while he couldn’t get full repeal/replace the ACA, I’m glad we got the mandate repealed.
    -winding the foreign wars in Afganistan/Iraq
    -finally got Mexico to address immigration/caravans
    -His signature WALL!
    -and something near and dear to me, he signed EO for federal agencies to go after animal abuse and we’ve seen measurable upticks of charges/prosecution in this area.
    -I’m sure I’ve forgotten some, but you get the idea… Trump has done some objectively good things.

    Yes, Trump’s biggest issue is himself, who perpetually steps on his own wang. But, again…what’s the alternative?

    whembly (2900b2)

  201. Where were you when “slimy attacks” were leveled at the Trumps?

    Honestly I don’t know of many of them. Trump’s conduct is so reprehensible that I don’t think they are necessary. People hate him so I’m sure people have engaged in them. Kathy Griffin with the severed head stuff just isn’t productive when Trump actually did collude with freaking Russia. Attacking him with a theory about a weirdo who found his laptop isn’t necessary when he actually did brag about sexually assaulting women.

    Yes, Trump’s biggest issue is himself, who perpetually steps on his own wang. But, again…what’s the alternative?

    Trump’s case for re-election has to be how good a job he did. The efforts to make the election about the family of Trump’s opponents have worked up until now, because he never had a record, just the most glorious (and unmatchable) promises.

    The problem is that when I looked at Trump’s name on my ballot, all I could think of were negative things. ‘The alternative will not be this bad’ was my prevailing thought. I disliked that vote because Biden really isn’t much of an option. You do have a point. But when I add in some of the bright lines Trump’s crossed, some of this stuff is many miles beyond what I find acceptable, is ruining our country and our ability to keep it safe.

    It is very tough to be a republican president. Bush showed how tough (and one of the worst ankle biters was Trump, who says Bush was the worst president in history). But I’m not grading on a curve. I voted for Bush because he had a record I was OK with. Trump can’t win without making the case for himself. This ‘Heidi Cruz is so ugly lol’ crap took him very far, but now it’s a re-election.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  202. SF:

    Rudy Giuliani truly believes that. He says he is not making this up.

    Dustin:

    No, he does not believe it.

    We know that Giuliani does believe this stuff because aconversation he had was unintentonally dialed a year ago to an NBC reporter and recorded as voicemail:

    https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/rudy-giuliani-butt-dials-nbc-reporter-heard-discussing-need-cash-n1071901

    You got the truth on your side,” an unidentified man says.

    “It’s very powerful,” Giuliani replies….

    The recording ends the same way it began. “They don’t want to investigate because he’s protected, so we gotta force them to do it,” Giuliani says, before apparently turning to the president’s now-infamous call with the Ukrainian president.

    “And the Ukraine, they’re investigating him and they blocked it twice. So what the president was [unintelligible word], ‘You can’t keep doing this. You have to investigate this.’ And they say it will affect the 2020 election.”

    “No it….” Giuliani adds, but the recording cuts off before he can finish the thought.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  203. Yesterday at the Town Hall Donald Trump was much better, but he also was defending indefensible positions.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  204. We know that Giuliani does believe this stuff because aconversation he had was unintentonally dialed a year ago to an NBC reporter and recorded as voicemail:

    He faked that or was conning someone. I am good at this. That man knows he is lying to us.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  205. @206

    Kathy Griffin with the severed head stuff just isn’t productive when Trump actually did collude with freaking Russia.

    He did not actually do that, and no, the famed Trump Tower meeting isn’t something you’d hang your hat on proving that there were collusion (or conspiracy).

    Attacking him with a theory about a weirdo who found his laptop isn’t necessary when he actually did brag about sexually assaulting women.

    He did not. He was saying that women LET HIM to it…as in, it was consensual.

    We’re at an impasse Dustin, as I don’t think we can continue to debate in good faith when you can’t even get your facts right.

    We’ll just note that you won’t be voting for Trump and that I will be voting for Trump.

    The. End.

    whembly (2900b2)

  206. He did not actually do that,

    He did it and on national TV, with meetings with his son and the bad guys, and frankly he’s never stopped. It’s absurd to me that people seriously argue the sky isn’t blue.

    He did not. He was saying that women LET HIM to it…as in, it was consensual.

    It is not consensual to grab a woman that way because when you’re a star they won’t stop you. That is sexual assault. This isn’t even remotely defensible.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  207. The. End.

    Oh we still have till January, but we’re getting there. I anticipate the worst of Trump is yet to come.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  208. OAN, Sammy? Really? The outfit that hired a literal Russian propagandist to “report” for them?
    I watched the whole Giuliani YouTube. There’s one text message (from the laptop) and no evidence of corruption or criminality, just lots of allegations.

    Paul Montagu (b2dbd3)

  209. Just over $400 million actually, it’s all in his public disclosures.

    Nope, he’s over $1 billion in debt, $447 million of which is to unknown creditors and not listed on his federal financial disclosure form.
    Bottom line, he still has a net worth of $2.5 billion, and his income properties should throw off enough cash flow to cover the payments.

    Paul Montagu (fbcd32)

  210. He did not. He was saying that women LET HIM to it…as in, it was consensual.

    I listened to it. Seemed pretty clear he meant that they were powerless because of his fame. Way rapey thing to say.

    When you’re a star they’ll let you do it.
    When they work for you they’ll let you do it.
    When it’s in a dark alley they’ll let you do it.
    When you’ve got a gun they’ll let you do it.

    None of that sounds consensual.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  211. -pushed/got tax cut No win, he blew up the budget deficit to do it.
    -pushed/got more originalist/conservative judges (to me, this is #1 as I’m looking at the long game) good
    -moved embassy to Jerusalem don’t care
    -got NATO to commit to their obligations not true
    -got peace momentum going in mid-East this is good
    -obliterated ISIS Good, not all Trump. We have more troops there now than in 2016
    -while he couldn’t get full repeal/replace the ACA, I’m glad we got the mandate repealed. Trump failed.
    -winding the foreign wars in Afganistan/Iraq Deployment levels are up.
    -finally got Mexico to address immigration/caravans This is a win, but god was it an ugly one.
    -His signature WALL! +4 miles is a fail.
    -and something near and dear to me, he signed EO for federal agencies to go after animal abuse and we’ve seen measurable upticks of charges/prosecution in this area. Animal abuse isn’t a federal crime. fail
    -I’m sure I’ve forgotten some, but you get the idea… Trump has done some objectively good things. Yes, but far fewer then you listed.

    Time123 (66d88c)

  212. -pushed/got more originalist/conservative judges (to me, this is #1 as I’m looking at the long game) good

    That’s the good.

    Otherwise Trump failed head to toe. In fact, the damage he did to the country’s reputation and discourse is severe.

    Voters should think about those judges when they vote, because there’s a real difference where Biden will be much worse. But it still is an easy call. Trump’s performance does not match his promises, we are not better off than we were, and things are rapidly destabilizing this year.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  213. Bottom line, he still has a net worth of $2.5 billion, and his income properties should throw off enough cash flow to cover the payments.

    Paul Montagu (fbcd32) — 10/16/2020 @ 11:22 am

    But it’s like my neighbor who owns a sweet brand new truck he can barely afford (and great point about his massive, practically inconceivable debt). Trump’s resorts and golf courses can’t be thriving this year, even if on paper he is a rich man, he is actually a fake. He’s been good at dodging the bill collector, I’m sure even better when he’s the leader of the free world.

    Many of his supporters wanted good things. Sane immigration. A balanced budget. A more civil rights friendly healthcare system. State control of more issues. I admire all those goals and wish Trump had helped them.

    To the supporters who wanted a Muslim ban, an Iranian ban, to catch Obama for being secretly from Africa, I think Trump genuinely fought for their world view. And failed.

    Dustin (4237e0)

  214. Section 230 Is The Subject of The Most Effective Legal Propaganda I’ve Ever Seen

    Very simply put, Section 230 is the law that says that, if I post something defamatory on Twitter, the victim can sue me, but not Twitter. It also says, again put simply, that Twitter has the right to moderate stuff on its site as it sees fit. The language of Section 230 is fairly clear, for something written by Congress. There is very little controversy amongst actual courts about what it means. The legal impact of Section 230 has been well-established by courts for decades, and efforts to evade it have been consistently rejected.

    Nonetheless, in Congress and on television and on the internet, accurate descriptions of what Section 230 says, and what it does, are usually overwhelmed by misconceptions (the charitable interpretation) or lies and propaganda (the more accurate one). Some of the most prominent politicians in the country — notably Senator Ted Cruz — routinely lie to the public about what the law says and how courts have interpreted it. Among the most common lies: Section 230 requires sites to choose between being a “platform” or “publisher”, Section 230 requires sites to moderate content in a neutral fashion, Section 230 is some sort of “gift” to the tech industry, and sites lose Section 230 protections if they demonstrate a viewpoint. These are not just different takes on the law, or arguable interpretations. These are flat-out lies. Section 230 doesn’t say any of that and every court to rule has rejected those hot takes.

    Details at the link.

    Davethulhu (d0e475)

  215. 200. 203.

    The New York Post has an email from Hunter Biden to his daughter Naomi but he doesn;t say his father was taking his moey – he just says he gave all his money away. (that would most likely be to women. is was in2018(

    Naomi had asked for $150 for Lyft because her card was declined. He said he would do it, but once she gets out of college she won;t be able to live like [the daughter] of a billionaire.

    His wife had filed for dicorce in December 2016. He had taken up with his dead brother;’s widow.

    There;s also along 800 word piece with typos in the form of a email from Robert Biden to Hunter Biden about how he felt after his brother died. He and his father and brother had always gone to Mass together. He on; liked two parts about it.

    He also said that in addition to praying to his mother and his dead sister (both killed in 1972) he had now started praying to his brother. I thought Catholics on;y did that to saints or people they thought were saints.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

  216. 213. Paul Montagu (b2dbd3) — 10/16/2020 @ 11:11 am

    OAN, Sammy? Really? The outfit that hired a literal Russian propagandist to “report” for them?

    I noticed that. So I looked for a more original link. And it was not that it was true, but that there was some kind of “evidence”I had heard that on the radio. I thought it was doubtful.

    I later checked, and the New York Post didn’t have that. They had a different email or text from Hunter to his daughter Naomi is which he didn’t say that, unlike “Pop” or “Pops” (I don’t remember whichword was suposeed to be in it) he was not going to make her give him half her salary. But what the new York Post had was that he had given his money away.

    I fonud Giuliani, and that seems to be source.

    I watched the whole Giuliani YouTube. There’s one text message (from the laptop) and no evidence of corruption or criminality, just lots of allegations.

    It would mean Joe Biden was profiting off Hunter if it were true. But if Giuliani had somebody else going through the material, something fraudulant could be passed on to him.

    Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7)

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