Social Media Platforms Block Sharing of New York Post Story About Hunter Biden Emails
The underlying story may well be Russian-planted disinformation, but this is still troubling:
Facebook and Twitter took action on Wednesday to limit the distribution of New York Post reporting with unconfirmed claims about Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden, leading President Trump’s campaign and allies to charge the companies with censorship.
Both social media companies said the moves were aimed at slowing the spread of potentially false information. But they gave few details about how they reached their decisions, sparking criticism about the lack of clarity and consistency with which they apply their rules.
Facebook is “limiting distribution of the story as so-called “fact-checkers” look at the story. Given the checkered history of fact-checkers, it’s hard to feel reassured. Meanwhile, Twitter is being even more aggressive:
Twitter went further. It is blocking users from posting pictures of the emails or links to two of the New York Post’s stories referring to them, spokesman Trenton Kennedy said, citing its rules against sharing “content obtained through hacking that contains private information.”
Users who try to share the links on Twitter are shown a notice saying, “We can’t complete this request because this link has been identified by Twitter or our partners as being potentially harmful.”
If a user clicks on links already posted on Twitter, the user is taken to a warning screen saying, “this link may be unsafe,” which they have to click past to read the story. Twitter also required the New York Post to delete its tweet about the story.
Twitter said it decided to block the links because it couldn’t be sure about the origins of the emails.
The problem is that Republicans can point to many, many stories over the years based on sources that were anonymous or shaky, and yet those stories were shared freely on social media.
I understand the concerns of Facebook and Twitter here. Especially given the skeevy nature of the story and the fact that it was laundered through Steve Bannon and Rudy Giuliani, companies that were blamed for being used by Russian troll farms in 2016 apparently feel the need to show that they are Paying Attention. I will add that I absolutely do not see this as justification for putting the heavy hand of government on private companies’ ability to control what appears on their own Web sites. My guess is that Twitter and Facebook would not do this if they thought Trump was going to win, but they see the Biden landslide coming (as does Rupert Murdoch, by the way), and with it the impending Democrat control of Congress . . . and so I doubt they’re terribly concerned about Republicans’ complaints.
But in the end, this seems like a reckless and one-sided action that is going to fuel the suspicion that social media giants are putting their thumbs on the scale in favor of leftists.
P.S. Your favorite blog is still open to discussion of such matters! I linked the story yesterday, here. And that link remains active and will not come down. Advantage: blogs!
I still think it’s likely this is a Russian operation of some sort.
Patterico (115b1f) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:41 amBut I guess we’ll see!
Patterico (115b1f) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:43 amIt definitely sounds sketchy. The problem is, if the press is allowed to bury it, or does not digging, we may never know.
The interview with the computer repair shop owner was definitely weird, to the say the least.
The social media companies’ actions make it seem like they want to kill this story because they favor Biden. But their actions are only making it worse.
Let the stories and rumors around this fly. It will only hurt Trump’s chances even more if it is fake. But burying the story just makes people think there is something to hide.
Hoi Polloi (7cefeb) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:48 amHave they shut down Biden’s campaign for propagating the Charleston smear or promoting other lies about Trump?
The bigger issue, is the uneven applications of the rules. There must be one standard… if not, then it’s an editorial decision and they ought to be treated as other legacy editorial institutions.
whembly (3bda0a) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:51 amThe most compelling argument against that conclusion is how transparently ham-fisted the whole thing is. I expect better from the Russians than this.
(Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:52 amThere must be one standard
There is. The standard is “Heads I Win, Tails You Lose.”
That’s all you know, and all you need to know.
Bored Lawyer (7b72ec) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:56 amYeah. That’s here. Do people think it’s a coincidence that the computer was dropped off with someone with such views? Or do they think maybe the Russians (or whoever) had researched this fella before they picked his shop?
Patterico (115b1f) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:59 amBut they are actually smart enough to think of that. These guys have been doing this stuff for a long time.
Also, Giuliani is involved in the hoax so there’s your fists of ham.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:00 amWhat if there is one standard, but due to immutable human failings it isn’t applied with perfect consistency across the millions of social media posts being generated every day?
What if the standard proves faulty and a company decides to change it?
What if the standard is perfectly fine and fair in theory, but one side or another so regularly engages in fever-swamp conspiracies that their drivel is disproportionately affected?
(Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:02 amGiven how awful this has worked out in 2016, a little paranoia in private enterprise, that they were again going to be abused to sabotage our election, I am not surprised they reacted zealously to shut this thing down.
I expect a lot more, a lot worse, around the one week to election day mark, not to convince the democrats, but to drum up turnout for Trump’s saddened fanbase.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:02 amYesterday, I said I didn’t have an opinion about Facebook/Twitter blocking the NY Post, but I’ve got one now.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:03 amI keep saying “one standard, applied to all” for a reason, because that mental approach should take a lot of the partisanship out of the equation. So in that regard, Facebook/Twitter should also have a single standard, which they appear to have screwed up.
If it were me in charge, I wouldn’t block the NY Post but I may attach a warning label to say that there is a lot of unverified information in their piece and should be taken with caution, as they should do with any other major news item with sketchy sources and unverified “facts”.
Holocaust denying and other irrefutably false claims are a separate issue.
I read somewhere that people who lie in court are disproportionately affected by the perjury laws.
nk (1d9030) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:04 amHas anyone shown a picture of Jacob Wohl to the ultra-Trumpy computer shop owner? Just wondering.
Patterico (115b1f) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:04 am@13…that would be amazing.
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:08 amOne possibility is that Vladimir Vladimirovich (who is no fool) has written off Trump as a lost cause and redirected his top-shelf assets elsewhere.
On the other hand, Trump is such an invaluable asset that it would a tragic waste, and unthinkable, to lose him, so the other possibility is that this is a distraction, using a rogues’ gallery of amateurs and bumblers like Rudy, which is intended to appear laughably incompetent and focus our attention away from the real operation going on at the same time.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:09 amI actually agree on both counts. The story is incredibly problematic. Stopping the sharing of the story is also incredibly problematic.
Nate (8f526f) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:11 amThose who watch these things may have noted that Facebook apparently, after careful consideration and introspection, recently determined that Nazis are bad, too.
(They also implicitly accepted the notion that they’re a publisher, but that’s a deep well of legal/technical wrangling that is well-outside the core interest of this blog, so I’ll leave that aside.)
> My guess is that Twitter and Facebook would not do this if they thought Trump was going to win
Facebook, absolutely. Twitter was trying to fight disinformation previously, albeit from an impossible position. Impossible to say, of course, but I think there’s a good chance Twitter would have done this (or something similar) anyway.
john (cd2753) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:15 amThey may have not only researched him, but groomed him to believe he was serving A Higher Purpose by doing their bidding.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:17 amWell then
https://apelbaum.wordpress.com/2020/10/15/hunter-biden-laptop-images-are-authentic/
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:23 am@17 “may” is doing a lot of work there.
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:24 amAs usual, this is a pretty good thought.
I disagree because I think we’re in desperate times, on the brink of something. I think we can feel it in the air and in the frustration of the people on the street. Trump has lost, but will try desperate, probably terrible things over the next 19 days, then the next couple of months, with the help of the very worst people on the planet.
If I owned some massive social media company I would have been prepared for that, been eagerly waiting to shut it down, day in and day out. This is no way to handle the exchange of news, but it is an emergency. Emergencies are where our rights and ideals are tested, and at the end of the day, I don’t think we ever really had freedom of speech or any other freedom. We safeguard them legally and educationally because we know how fake the concepts really are. Trump’s lied and smeared for decades, so he naturally motivates the test we’re going to fail.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:27 amhttps://pjmedia.com/election/matt-margolis/2020/10/14/report-biden-campaign-doesnt-rule-out-the-possibility-joe-biden-met-with-burisma-executive-n1055204
whembly (3bda0a) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:30 amFrom politico:
Not sure what you mean by that. I don’t claim there is any direct evidence. Yet.
The guy is clearly
1) a nutcase,
2) a tinfoil-hatter, and
3) a fanatical Trump supporter
People like that would be extremely suggestible if you pushed the right buttons.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:30 amI know you posted this to be critical of Biden since you’re a partisan hack, but it’s honestly kind of refreshing to see a campaign admit the limits of their knowledge, rather than reflexively issuing a denial that’s disproven within the day as the Trump team so frequently does.
(Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:33 amOh crap. They’ve caught Biden’s campaign being honest again!
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:34 am@18 If you notice, there’s a lot of technical jargon appended at the bottom of that nonsense, apparently to convince people that Complicated Technical Stuff means it is true.
If you search for snippets of that (for instance, the sentence beginning “the untampered part of the image will have been compressed twice”), you’ll find that copy was cribbed from here:
https://github.com/AFP-Medialab/invid-verification-plugin/blob/dev/InVIDTraductions.tsv .
And “Mr. Apelbaum” just slapped his copyright on it.
Way too many of these scammers apparently don’t think people who do this for a living will see their crap, or more likely they don’t care.
john (cd2753) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:35 amDave, I’m saying that your conclusion, while possible, isn’t supported by the available data.
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:36 am@21, So they’re saying they didn’t have a formal meeting, but the could have shook hands at a rope line or something similar. This seems reasonable.
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:38 am(Not That) Bill O’Reilly (6bb12a) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:02 am
If this were the case you’d expect something closer to a normal distribution of the errors. The “errors” seem to only go one way.
If this were the case you’d still expect some sort of distribution of the errors, just weighted in one direction.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:38 am@23
I don’t know if it’s that big of a deal.
But your freak outs over this ordeal seems to be that it’s you participating in partisan hackery.
Frankly, none of these stuff is net new. Sure, it’s interesting, but we KNEW Hunter Biden’s a liability to Joe’s campaign. All this does is bolsters those stuff we already knew about.
All this going to do is to solidify the base. No one’s mind is going to change over this. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
whembly (3bda0a) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:39 amHe actually verifies data and puts things in context.
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:39 amIt wasn’t a conclusion.
Like Patrick’s original remark
it was obviously speculation.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:41 am“This is irrelevant old news, which is why I’m relentlessly signal-boosting it.”
Sure, Jan.
(Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:43 amThank you, Dustin. I just think that if Facebook/Twitter are going to err, it should be on the side of not censoring. Consider how this story would’ve played out with a warning label. There would’ve been no serious PR blowback, IMO, yet still communicated the story’s questionable veracity, which puts it back on the NY Post where it belongs.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:45 amThe fbi received the laptop the same day of the impeachment.
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:46 amDisagree; I distinctly recall similar levels of manufactured outrage when Twitter and Facebook appended less invasive warnings to some of Trump’s factually-inaccurate posts a few weeks ago.
(Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:49 amwhembly (3bda0a) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:39 am
It’s so much more interesting than that. We’ve got commenters who’ve previously ridiculed conspiricay theories jumping into the pool and having a great time. If we’re lucky we’ll get comments were this merges into anti-qanon pro-russian-super-spy comments. Proof has become a flexible concept. Caricitures of characters from Orwell are showing up.
It’s a free master class in propoganda and spin.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:52 am@32 Keep handwaving this away bruh.
It amazes me that for all the sturm and drang over the Trump family using their connections to enrich themselves, ya’ll handwave the same sort of personal enrichments of the Bidens.
Now who’s engaging in this ‘political hackery’?
whembly (3bda0a) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:53 am@36 Spot on frosty.
whembly (3bda0a) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:54 amThats why i call it samizdat that the atlantic council and defeat desinfo (another apelbaum deep dive) have tried to block
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 10/15/2020 @ 9:55 amWho’s handwaving anything? Biden is a bad candidate with weak policy positions, and his son is a sleazeball. But there’s no evidence that Biden’s policy decisions have ever been affected by Hunter’s shady dealings (if there were, Rudy wouldn’t have needed to cook up this codswallop), and even the most feverish dreams of Biden’s corruption pale in comparison to what the President brazenly does in office every day.
(Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:00 amYou are, because nobody denies that Hunter Biden benefitted from his famous last name, but you said “connections”, suggesting active influence, and “Bidens” (plural), implicating his father, when there isn’t a shred of credible evidence to justify that.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:01 amI like the way the following was phrased, because the shop owner did acknowledge that he was legally blind…
It could all be on the up-and-up but, considering the characters involved, better to be skeptical and nail down the facts.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:07 amand “Bidens” (plural), implicating his father, when there isn’t a shred of credible evidence to justify that.
Daddy knew full well his son was grifting off him. But don’t believe your lying eyes.
beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:08 amWe know china started building their artificial islands and they took them down in this administration.
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:10 amI wonder if this will hurt Bidens lead in Georgia?
https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/georgia/
or PA?
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:14 amhttps://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-election-forecast/pennsylvania/
“How can a blind man be a lookout?”
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:15 amThere is zero evidence.
But even supposing you were right, Dad was supposed to do … what, exactly?
How many adults ask for their parents’ permission when making career choices?
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:22 amShow me. Which of these were taken down?
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:24 amWhat’s your point though?
If you really truly believe that obvious grifting off daddy has no place in our president’s administration, you would vote for Biden over Trump 7 days a week. Jared seizing those masks and ventilators, Ivanka selling Goya beans and getting chinese patents, these people representing our people to world leaders with no qualifications and with embarrassing performance, that’s beyond Hunter sitting on a board because he’s connected to his daddy.
You can barely even compare them. It’s like a Trump fanatic believing Tara Reade while defending Trump’s own mouth.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:25 amBut in the end, this seems like a reckless and one-sided action that is going to fuel the suspicion that social media giants are putting their thumbs on the scale in favor of leftists.
__
“Seems“…….“fuel the suspicion“…….
_
Related:
Ev
@ev
Interesting take: Why there’s no bipartisan way forward at this juncture in our history, one side must win. Medium.com…..
__ _
Jack
@jack
Great read
April 5, 2018
https://mobile.twitter.com/redsteeze/status/1316565932991373312
harkin (7fb4c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:25 am_
@49, It’s the good being the enemy of the perfect.
Time123 (306531) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:31 am@51 except in this case those making the perfect the enemy of the good are using that as an excuse to actively embrace the bad.
(Not That) Bill O'Reilly (6bb12a) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:34 amTwo stories here.
1. The failure of selective social media outlets to quash a specific story. The attempt merely highlighted the content while spotlighting suspicions about their own biases.
2. Skepticism. It is healthy but it is also foolish to be so definitively dismissive; history rhymes:
“Look, there are two thousand reporters in this town, are there five on Watergate? When did the Washington Post suddenly get the monopoly on wisdom? Why would the Republicans do it? McGovern’s self-destructed just like Humphrey, Muskie, the bunch of them. I don’t believe this story. It doesn’t make sense.” – Foreign Editor Scott [John McMartin] ‘All The President’s Men’ 1976
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:40 am“ My guess is that Twitter and Facebook would not do this if they thought Trump was going to win, but they see the Biden landslide coming (as does Rupert Murdoch, by the way), and with it the impending Democrat control of Congress . . . and so I doubt they’re terribly concerned about Republicans’ complaints.”
__ _
Is this real?
harkin (7fb4c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:43 am_
@54. And the name of the sensationally explosive rubber dummy parachuted into Normandy on D-Day?
“This… is Rupert.” – ‘The Longest Day’ 1962
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:50 amGood post. I hope people notice it.
DRJ (aede82) — 10/15/2020 @ 10:52 amWould be interesting if this story doesn’t just benefit Trump. This could be a story that – if Biden wins and it looks like he will – could give progressives the ammo they need to get Biden to step down and have Harris take over as POTUS.
Hoi Polloi (7cefeb) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:03 amIf this story is accurate, and it’s the Daily Mail so that’s basically as reputable as graffiti behind Dunkin Donuts, then Giuliani is musing about releasing thousands of photos of Biden’s nude son. Every journalist who encounters old Law and Order Rudy needs to ask him if Trump approved this kind of attack on his opponent’s son.
It’s clear Hunter had some serious problems. Biden admitted that and even said he was proud of his son’s efforts to get better. That was a pretty good way to handle this. I don’t see how Trump and Rudy hope to gain even one vote. This seems like desperation and even just reprisal.
Imagine Hunter was your kid. A screw up, addict, did sleazy stuff. And the person hoping to get your job or promotion starts sending nude pics he found of your son to the office. That is not what the USA should be.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:04 amYou can barely even compare them. It’s like a Trump fanatic believing Tara Reade while defending Trump’s own mouth.
If I’m supposed to give up conservative goals on deregulation, judges, immigration, etc. in exchange for bringing back decency to the oval office, it would be awesome if the decency part was actually for realz.
beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:05 amWhy would it? I don’t get it. If Ivanka can sell beans and Jared can take my ventilator, why is the line moved so far for Biden?
It’s not that will win. It’s that Trump will lose. He is so fixated on hurting people he never did his job.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:06 amThe truly ‘media critical’ story of the day is the ‘competing town halls’ on the NBC and ABC television networks.
‘Public service’ vs., raw, ratings racing capitalism on display. Which speaks volumes about what truly matters in thebiz– eyeballs and clicks.
Trump is right; it is all about ‘the ratings.’
And it’s a safe bet if Trump draws higher numbers than Biden, he’ll use it as a metric of his popularity w/voters and tell you so loud and clear at every rally.
____
Kamala off campaign trail; two ‘aides’ tested Covid positive.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:08 amThe cynic in me wonders, what if they aren’t even sick? What if this is a way to get a headline to contrast with Trump not caring about it? It’s not like Harris polls that well. They definitely get more out of this outcome than from a few tiny events.
Trump makes it so easy to look good, you really wonder why he was elected. (I know I know, Ronald Reagan did it).
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:14 amin 1987
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:14 am@62. You said it, I didn’t.
She projects poorly on television; hot and caustic in a cool medium.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:22 amThat’s a really good point…Biden’s bad. But the areas where he’s at his worst are areas where he’s dramatically better then Trump. I’ll be Pence would win by 15 points.
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:22 amThe only administration that has seriously challenged putin in ayria in the ukraine et al in at least 12 years,
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:25 am@58. Imagine Hunter was your kid. A screw up, addict, did sleazy stuff. And the person hoping to get your job or promotion starts sending nude pics he found of your son to the office. That is not what the USA should be.
LOL. Apparently you’ve never heard of Charles Colson; or Donald Segretti… or Lee Atwater.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:26 am“That is not what the USA should be.“
No, the USA should be Twitter and Facebook performing Chinese-style censorship based on politics and not worrying about it if they think Biden/Harris will be in charge of the Executive and the Dems in charge of the Congress.”
Once again from our host:
“My guess is that Twitter and Facebook would not do this if they thought Trump was going to win, but they see the Biden landslide coming (as does Rupert Murdoch, by the way), and with it the impending Democrat control of Congress . . . and so I doubt they’re terribly concerned about Republicans’ complaints.”
_
Vote for this by all means….
harkin (d8affe) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:32 am_
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:26 am
2016 was a great reset. It makes it much easier to make a “worst ever” claim.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:36 amHere’s an example
https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1316801262277455872
Trump appears to be implying that the US marshals murdered a suspect and he’s bragging about it. I think it’s likely that Trump is lying. But it’s still horrifying to think that we’re OK with LEO executing a man. I think a president that doesn’t normalize this is a better choice.
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:40 amI’ve heard of one of them! What do I get?
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:43 amI don’t like her at all. I actually really dislike Biden. Watching Sam Donaldson take him apart is convincing that he’s got zero character.
These guys ain’t the cure, but I’m going to roll the dice on them over the worst president in our history. The Taliban, the KKK, Putin, and the fat Proud Boys guy who prefaces everything with ‘I’m not a racist, but’ all agree that I should not vote for Biden.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:45 am@69. The Hoover family is likely relieved.
But it doesn’t help to have framed, glowing notes from The Big Dick hang in your office. 😉
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:45 am@72. Watching Sam Donaldson take anybody apart was a joy. All the more reason to remind ‘folks’ how poor frustrated editorial cartoonist Jake Tapper is as a “journalist.”
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:49 am@71. What do I get?
More of the same.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:50 amI think you guys have a point, only because if this were an october surprise equally disgusting and idiotic, but against Team R, they would leave it up.
But Twitter is not a communist dictator. It’s just some company. They don’t have to trade on dumb last second stories obviously inented to change the outcome of an election without actually being accurate. They don’t have to trade on the Trump administration attacking an opponent’s family.
In fact, if you really have a problem with the government controlling speech, you probably shouldn’t support Trump, whose response to Twitter exercising its rights is to threaten them.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:55 am@49
Jared seizing those masks and ventilators, Ivanka selling Goya beans and getting chinese patents, these people representing our people to world leaders with no qualifications and with embarrassing performance,
Let’s see if we can unpack this nonsense.
Jared seizing those masks and ventilators — the masks were not “seized,” they were held by the federal government, who paid for them. The purpose was to ensure that there would be flexible supply that could be used around the country as needed. Had all of them been horded by, say, New York, as its Governor wanted, then patients in other states might have been deprived or delayed in receiving that equipement. So what Jared did was completely correct. Shame on those who snarkly criticized him.
Ivanka selling Goya beans — Ivanka did not “sell” them, she posed with a can. This was after boycotts were called against the company when its president praised Trump. I doubt she made a penny off it.
and getting chinese patents — they were trademark registrations, not patents. For us IP lawyers that makes a difference.
And what were those trademarks, pray tell? IVANKA TRUMP. She had many registrations for various goods and services all for the same mark, her friggin name. She registered trademarks >of her own name, a common practice for famous people in a country where piracy and counterfeiting are rampmant. The notion that this would compromise national security is laughable.
these people representing our people to world leaders with no qualifications and with embarrassing performance — You mean like the recent normalization of relations between Israel and two Arab countries, something that 20 years of work by the experts could not achieve? Or the healthy focus on China as an economic and security rival, something admininstrations of both parties have ignored? Or the Serbia-Kosovo treaty?
The Trump Administration has had foreign policy successes and failures like any other, but I don’t think they have done worse than the last admininstration.
The Iran deal that the Democrats hope to revive is a major, boneheaded negative, that really would have compromised the security of the United States, regardless of what John Kerry and 100 State Dept. experts think. Trump gets lots of pluses in my book for ditching it.
So try not to repeat trite talking points.
Bored Lawyer (7b72ec) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:56 amSure sounds like a textbook definition of a taking to me.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:57 amAnd you and I paid for them. Jared took ’em, you paid, and maybe your loved one died.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:57 amBL, I want to focus on 1 part of this: Ivanka’s trade marks in China. They were a thing of value. She’d wanted them for a while. The Chinese government gave them to her after her father won the election. Sounds like a gift to curry favor to me. I think she had a moral right to them. But China isn’t a place where that’s how such things are decided.
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:00 pmIn fact, if you really have a problem with the government controlling speech, you probably shouldn’t support Trump, whose response to Twitter exercising its rights is to threaten them.
Trump threatened to treat them like any other publisher in a free country.
beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:01 pmI know some of you don’t like Andy McCarthy, but he does a great job sucinctly describing why this is a story:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/10/the-hunter-emails-report/
I get that there’s some dispute to claims of Joe Biden’s motives were because the prosecutor was corrupt and not pursuing the corruption in Ukraine.
But the prosecutor himself said in a sworn affidavit that he believes he was pushed out because of Biden’s intervention and that he, the prosecutor, was indeed looking into Burisma:
https://heavy.com/news/2019/09/viktor-shokin-affidavit-biden/
Additionaly, the following local story leads credence to the claim that Shokin was in fact investigating Burisma, beyond his own word, was that there was an attempt by Shokin’s office to seize properties of the Burisma founder, Mykola Zlochevsky, as this article from the Kyiv Post on Feb. 4, 2016 shows:
whembly (3bda0a) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:01 pmhttps://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/court-seizes-property-of-ex-minister-zlochevsky-in-ukraine-pgo-407348.html
On its face, that looks like an investigation.
No, he actually was very vague about his threat, kinda like a dictator would be. Ominous, not a fan of due process as usual. This is a guy who just bragged that the US Marshalls didn’t want to take a guy in so they just killed him (of course this is a slur on the Marshalls). This is a guy who warned his IRS will get his foes.
He has absolutely not ever implied he will treat his supportive media, the guys he puts medals on, like the ones bleeding out of their wherevers.
It is honestly really amusing how hard y’all are trying. I am sure you are all good people, who love America, to fight so hard to ‘clear the record’ for Donald Trump and his corrupt family who have stolen from you. You’re just misguided. You will see the light in a few years.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:05 pm@78 and 79
You are being silly. If the federal government holds onto proprety it paid for, that is not a “taking.” Under any textbook. And Jared did not take the equipment for himself, he had the federal government hold onto them so that they could be distributed as needed. Which is why the government acquired them in the first place. Giving them all to New York so they could rot in a warehouse while someone in Michigan needed them would have been the height of irresponsibility. So despite your hysterical rhetoric, I see nothing wrong here.
Bored Lawyer (7b72ec) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:07 pmHas anyone from the US State Department stated that removing Shokin wasn’t official US policy, or that Biden was pushing it to be US policy for improper reasons?
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:09 pm@80
BL, I want to focus on 1 part of this: Ivanka’s trade marks in China. They were a thing of value. She’d wanted them for a while. The Chinese government gave them to her after her father won the election. Sounds like a gift to curry favor to me. I think she had a moral right to them. But China isn’t a place where that’s how such things are decided.
As a trademark lawyer, I don’t deny that trademark registrations have value. But I see no evidence that the issuance of these registrations were anything other than routine actions of the Chinese Tradaemark Office. The same trademark holding company owns twenty-three U.S. registrations for her name or slight variations thereof. (You can do a search at the PTO trademark search website.
Keep in mind that these are intangible rights — that’s why they are called intellectual property. It’s not like China gave her a trunk full of gold doubloons. It secured her own name within its sovereign territory from misuse by pirates and con-artists.
Trump has been the most anti-China president in my lifetime. You seriously think that her acquiring trademark registrations there is going to alter U.S. foreign policy?
Bored Lawyer (7b72ec) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:13 pmDustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:05 pm
Ah, I live the smell of snark and condescension in the morning.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:18 pm@87
It’s afternoon on the East Coast, buddy.
Bored Lawyer (7b72ec) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:21 pm@85
In a round-a-bout way… yeah. Numerous states officials warned of conflicts of interests between Biden’s actions and his son’s work with Burisma.
whembly (3bda0a) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:23 pm@BL, Articles like this from forbes make it appear as if foreign governments are providing trademarks as a way to curry favor. The key factor to me is that they’re happening faster then they otherwise would
I’m not saying that Trump is basing his policy on these types of gifts. I don’t think he is. But giving someone a thing of value in exchange for goodwill is corrupt. It was corrupt when Burisma hired hunter Biden and it looks corrupt here. Neither looks illegal to me BTW. But I’m not a IP lawyer and would value your considered opinion. Do you think these would have been given regardless? Does the improved timing look suspicious to you?
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:25 pmBored Lawyer (7b72ec) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:21 pm
It doesn’t smell as well in the afternoon.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:25 pmThere have been numerous concerns about the appearance of a conflict. Which I think is 100% valid. I’m not aware of anyone that’s said removing that prosecutor wasn’t in the interest of the US. In fact Senator Johnson signed a letter calling for exactly that in 2016. Further state department officials have testified that it removing that prosecutor was in the US interest and was US policy because he wasn’t investigating corruption.
I don’t think Joe Biden did anything wrong here. I think the people trying to imply he did are cherry picking data and omitting pertinent facts that have been known the whole time.
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:28 pmDavid Mack
@davidmackau
·
APNEWSALERT: NEW YORK (AP) — C-SPAN suspends political editor Steve Scully indefinitely after he admits he lied about his Twitter feed being hacked
__ _
Did we ever get a post about this?
harkin (7fb4c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:34 pm__
Trump is so obviously horrible that Team Biden and the media feel the need to double team him in a debate on the sly.
harkin (7fb4c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:38 pm_
@93
…and yet, the prosecutor, under oath, stated that he was investigating Burisma and was fired because of it.
You, of all posters, regularly pound the drums given credence to statements made in courts or under oath. Why are you dismissive of this?
whembly (3bda0a) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:38 pmGood for them.
If he filed a false police report, I hope they throw the book at him.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:40 pmToo bad we can’t hold the President of the United States to the same standard.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:41 pm@93
This is one of those “good things” with Trump being president as we all can dispense with the notion that any of these debate moderators are unbiased.
In future debates, each campaign should pick their respective ideological moderator. So that there’s 2 moderators per debate and each can ask questions driven by their perspectives.
whembly (3bda0a) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:42 pmone finds that the newspapers don’t actually read the source materials, neither apparent does subject area specialist vindman, in his report, stephen mcintyre did yeoman work on the whole privat/burisma matter,s
bolivar de gris (7404b5) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:43 pmits sad, because scully seemed even keeled, then the mindstone affected him, or he got the brain bug from scaramucci,
bolivar de gris (7404b5) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:44 pmDo you think these would have been given regardless? Yes. The fact that it is her own name, and that she already has 23 US registrations (and who knows how many in other countries) suggests to me this would have happened regardless.
Does the improved timing look suspicious to you?
I don’t know the basis for the claim that there was improved timing. The Forbes article states:
Now I am not a Chinese trademark practitioner, but I can tell you that if this were the U.S., I would see nothing wrong. For three reasons:
(1) There is always a random factor in how fast things go through a bureaucracy.
(2) In general, the USPTO has gotten much more efficient. My boss commented to me the other day that it used to take 5 to 6 months to get the first response from the Trademark Office, it now takes 2 to 4 months. Much of that has to do with the fact that virtually everything is done on-line now.
I can’t say if the Chinese Trademark Office is the same, but it would not shock me.
(3) Most important. Trademark applications generally cite prior applications the same person or comnpany has received. And if you already have the same trademark for other goods (or a very similar trademark for the same goods), that goes a long way towards convincing the Examiner to grant you what you want.
If I were prosecuting (that’s IP lawyer slang for applying for) Ivanka Trump’s trademark portfolio in the U.S., I would completely expect the first registration to take significantly more time than the tenth. That’s just the way it works — by the tenth time, the Examiner sees that you already have nine registrations for IVANKA, or I IVANKA, and you want one more (lets say, she had IVANKA TRUMP for clothing, and now wants the same mark for “Online social networking services in the field of fashion, lifestyle, motivation, inspiration and self-improvement obtained through social media posting”, which is exactly what happened in the U.S.), so why not?
So subject to Chinese practice being different than U.S. practice, the answer is no.
Bored Lawyer (7b72ec) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:44 pmOh yeah it is, absolutely. Most 4th amendment seizures are returned. Did the original purchasers even get this stuff? Did they drop it in the grave or something?
A receipt or a payment actually show it’s a taking rather than disprove it.
It’s a taking. And Jared wasn’t elected to screw this up so bad.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:48 pm“its sad, because scully seemed even keeled, then the mindstone affected him, or he got the brain bug from scaramucci”
He sure does seem even keeled but I’m now thinking he probably thinks that’s his best feature.
He always seemed like a talking mannequin to me who bias-wise seemed too good to be true.
Now we know he was.
harkin (7fb4c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:49 pm_
BTW, just to be a trademark nerd for a moment, you may have noticed that a trademark registration is for a particular trademark, with respect to particular goods and services. That’s because trademarks are only owned relative to a particular ongoing business. In the words of the Supreme Court, a trademark is not an indepedent right, but merely a right “appurtenant” to an ongoing business.
This is why the same mark can be used by diffrent companies in different industries. DELTA is the registered trademark for an airline company, a plumbing supply company, and a dental insurance company.
Bored Lawyer (7b72ec) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:50 pmBreaking- CSPAN SUPENDS STEVE SCULLY AFTER HE ADMITS LYING ABOUT TWITTER HACK.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:50 pm@96.So what have you learned; don’t be so quick to dismiss the NY Post story.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:52 pmJust think how much easier it is for me to defend my view on Scully, that I thought he was full of it from the beginning.
Same as with Biden and Trump, by not carrying water for anybody, I can just say what I honestly believe and never have to change. I never have to explain why the president’s kid is a sleaze or a crook, Jared, Ivanka, Hunter, I don’t carry water for them and I don’t disrespect myself.
At worst, maybe I’m naive to expect anything better, and maybe I conflate the bad people with a bad system, but it is so difficult to ethically parse that, and it’s also just flat dumb. We can be better.
We will spend decades, many even centuries, talking about the folly of Trump, the fool who got himself sick and killed so many of his people, propped up by our enemies as the best weapon the USSR ever developed.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:54 pmExcept what Scully did wasn’t even bias. Dumb? Yes.
He asked – publicly – for advice from someone who had worked for Trump in the past, about whether to respond to Trump’s public attacks on he and his family. And response was, “Nah, just ignore it.”
If you want the moderator to be unbiased, is demonizing them in the week before the event a sensible strategy?
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:54 pmScully is/was the head of the White House Correspondents Association too.
This plays right into the Trump ‘fake news’ framework.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:55 pmNah. We already knew about Hunter. The story is really only noteworthy in how low Trump and Rudy can go, publishing nude pics of their opponent’s son and women who definitely didn’t sign up for this. Anyone buying these last second October surprises as important news, rather than news about the campaign that held onto the story, has already picked a side. I expect this story to actually hurt Trump pretty bad.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:56 pmAnyone want to explain why the president is apparently implying to the good people of Greenville NC that the US Marshals straight up murdered a guy and that he’s down with that?
Nic (896fdf) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:58 pmThis is a pretty fair point, Dave. Once again Trump gets away with crap no one really should, because we expect him to be awful. All Scully had to do was be straight about what he was doing and he’d be fine. It must be terrible for Trump to attack his family, and he’s used this against a lot of people for a long time because he’s a piece of s—. But Scully handled it by lying. Like with Chris Wallace, Scully was not up to the task of moderating or handling Trump. Anyone who does probably should just not have family.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:58 pmIt’s what Putin would do?
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:59 pmIt’s a slur on law enforcement that fuels the hatred of cops out there, that when a bad guy is shot, the cops had planned for it as a ‘don’t let them get it for free’ ‘can’t beat the ride’ kind of justice. That does happen. And bad cops should not be encouraged by the president at this point when that profession is going through enough.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:00 pmAPNEWSALERT: NEW YORK (AP) — C-SPAN suspends political editor Steve Scully indefinitely after he admits he lied about his Twitter feed being hacked
Holy moly. Did not see this coming.
beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:00 pm@108
Not sensible…no.
But, as recent history shows… most of these moderators are anything but unbiased. So, why perpetuate this nonsense? Simply give each campaign their favorite moderator and go with it.
I’d watch the hell of a debate if Biden chosen someone like Toure, and Trump chose Dana Loesch.
whembly (3bda0a) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:01 pmTime123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:09 pm
No, but nobody said, as they should have, unless they could legally only respond to questions, that Biden lied in his appearance at the Council on Foreign Relations on January 23, 2018, about singlehandedly getting the prosecutor fired.
Was the story that Joe Biden told about the cancelled, or nearly cancelled, press conference
true?
If only George Kent had been asked that question!
OK, now. Removing the Prosecutor General was not a crucial element of U.S. policy on Ukraine. And Joe Biden didn’t clam it was in is January 23, 2018 appearance at the Council on Forie=eign Relations. Cruciak, ad tied to the loan guarantees was the Ukrainian Parliament passing a whole package of anti-corruption legislation. And when they finally did in June 2016. (Viktor Shokin was forced to quit in March and replaced in April) the $1 billion in loan guarantees announced.
At a press conference in Kiev where Joe Biden was not present but the then outgoing U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine, Geoffrey Ross Pyatt, was.
Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:04 pmExcept what Scully did wasn’t even bias. Dumb? Yes.
Dumb? No- not if you’re in the bag for a plagiarist.
Biased? Yes.
All a journalist has is credibility. Blow that and you’re toast. Ask Brian Williams. The hand of God was at work in this one– good thing the debate was cancelled. Brian Lamb won’t tolerate this crap at CSPAN, either.
The debate commission is done.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:06 pmThe problem is Scully used his phone to send the tweet. It was probably known to twitter in five minutes that this was no hack. Twitter gets hacked so they have people who can look into high profile things like this. It was the kind of lie that you can’t get away with.
Something about Scully, on those cspan panels with the callers from both sides, has always struck me as weak and reactive. The lie was a panicked and thoughtless decision. Trump would have told a grander yet vaguer lie that put someone else on defense. Of course Trump was already doing that, attacking Scully, creating the drama.
Seems that everything Trump touches turns to failure. If a thug bullies a weak person, and laughs that he won, I don’t really think that’s endearing. ‘But he fights.’
Fortunately, unless Trump’s USPS shenanigans are much worse, he is about to have to fight some election results.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:07 pmBecause the evidence that he’s lying is overwhelming. Go look at the news reports from 2015 and 2016. I’ll put one below.
Because Trumps controlled the State Department for 3 plus years and no one has provided evidence that firing this prosecutor wasn’t US policy. I recall in the impeachment hearings that testimony was provided that it was.
There are contemporaneous statements from GOP officials asking for reforms to the prosecutor generals office.
Because the only evidence that he was planning to do that investigation is a affidavit in Austria. This is better than an anonymous source. But I don’t know that he’s under risk of prosecution for perjury. Have him come to the US and testify to this under oath. Have senator Johnson (who called for his removal in 2016) get someone from state to testify.
If that was the only evidence I’d accept it. But it’s not. There’s a TON of other evidence.
Here’s a NYT piece from 2016.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/30/world/europe/political-stability-in-the-balance-as-ukraine-ousts-top-prosecutor.html
Here’s the letter portman released in 2016
https://www.portman.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/portman-durbin-shaheen-and-senate-ukraine-caucus-reaffirm-commitment-help
If you read the link you provided you’ll find a lot of other sources telling you the guy was corrupt and wanted to go.
Time123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:09 pm@114 So in the last two weeks he’s manged to needless endanger the secret service, denigrate the DOJ (although IMO Barr does deserve some heat, but, you know, in the opposite direction), and insult the US Marshals. He’s also, in the recent past, insulted the entire officer staff of all the branches of the military and the FBI. I don’t think anyone needs to worry about Trump overstaying his welcome if he loses in November. He’s alienated almost all the groups that could possibly help him do so.
Nic (896fdf) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:10 pmThe problem is Scully used his phone to send the tweet.
No.
The ‘problem’ was Scully himself.
You just witnessed a man w/a family destroy his career. Maybe e thns he’ll get a gig in the Biden administration– but don’t hold your breath.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:11 pmI think the first part here is firm but fair.
I do not understand why the debate commission is done. Trump has definitely waged war against the idea of fair debates ever since Biden crushed him and sealed his election win, but all they really need to do is be accountable. If they could put the few conservative pundits or journalists who aren’t crazy zealots on there, it would help. That is hard to do because of the corrosion in conservative sellout media.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:11 pmNotorious #nevertrumpers Sean Spicer and Karl Rove say they believe Scully:
….
Sadly, nobody capable of independent, critical thought is pure enough for Trump and his cultists…
Dave (1bb933) — 10/10/2020 @ 12:00 pm
LOLOLOLOLOL
beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:12 pmso you’re still whining about that black bloc thug, that got his just deserts after murdering a trump supporter, had someone put two bullets in a well known anarchist some 30 years ago, the world would have turned out a better place,
bolivar de gris (7404b5) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:12 pmI was talking about the technical problem with Scully’s lie, why it was disproven. Because of the consistency between the tweets, the pattern, and how easy it would be to show where it came from, up to the cell tower or router, the lie was hopeless.
Yes, of course, it is also wrong to tell lies, but catch up, DCSCA… I was taking Scully to task for the ethics of it like ten minutes after he actually (and in my opinion obviously) lied.
And note, you’re supporting Trump’s election while telling us dishonesty is wrong.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:14 pm@124. It’s sad the Swamp has seeped into CSPAN’s offices. And remember, a percentage of your cable/phone/gadget company fees pays for CSPAN.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:14 pmKetchup, Dustin- Heinz Country is the battle ground.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:15 pmIt is sad. The whole field of journalism has become hopelessly partisan. I only took one journalism class and I dropped it on the second day when the prof made partisanship an element of the class. Trump didn’t just happen. When pro journalists became unreliable, shoddy crook journalists occupied the niche that left on the right. There are good guys, but they don’t stand a chance.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:17 pm🤨
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:18 pm@125 Nope, I’m whining about Trump going around proudly telling people the US Marshals are murderers.
And you are Americaning badly again. The appropriate law enforcement response to crime is to arrest the suspected criminal (if possible) and put him/her on trial, not shoot them in the face. (I am not saying this is what the US marshals did. I am responding to your comment saying that doing such a thing is a good idea.)
Nic (896fdf) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:18 pmAnd note, you’re supporting Trump’s election while telling us dishonesty is wrong.
No, Dustin: support the neutering of the modern ideological conservative movement. It’s win/win either way. The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Welcome to 1964.
Glorious.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:18 pmTime123 (ca85c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:28 pm
I don’t think Joe Biden did anything at all here.
He lied. He made up the whole story. It’s not like that’s something unprecedented for Joe Biden.
https://www.cfr.org/event/foreign-affairs-issue-launch-former-vice-president-joe-biden
whembly (3bda0a) — 10/15/2020 @ 12:38 pm
He lied, too.
And not in an American court.
Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:18 pmTrump recently bragged about Reinoehl’s killing being “retribution”:
The NYTimes had a piece Monday presenting evidence that Trump isn’t kidding about ordering an execution, either (probably paywalled):
‘Straight to Gunshots’: How a U.S. Task Force Killed an Antifa Activist
Reinoehl was shot through the window of his car, and then tried to flee on foot.
The police gave a number of conflicting reports, one saying he pointed a gun at them, but his gun was found in his pocket, with his hand on it, where he fell. The coroner said the final fusillade probably killed him instantly.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:19 pm132. DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:18 pm
When Lyndon Johnson was the liar? He became notorious later for having a “credibility gap.”
Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:21 pmMy prediction stands: Trump squeaks out a win by 3 points or so; or it’s a President Harris within 24 months. Biden is irrelevant.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:22 pmThat “sworn affidavit” was before an Austrian court, in defense of a Kremlin-connected Ukrainian billionaire kleptocrat, Mr. Firtash, spoken in Russian and translated to English so that hack “journalist” John Solomon can carry water for Trump and try to take Biden down, and so that Giuliani can wave the document around on cable news. The document is worthless. There remains no evidence that Shokin was doing what he claimed, i.e., investigating Zlochevsky/Burisma/Biden.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:33 pmThe attorneys defending Mr. Firtash are DiGenova-Toensing, who did legal legwork for Giuliani, and they legally represent Solomon as well as both of the fired prosecutors, Shokin and Lutsenko. It’s just one big happy legal family, filled with corrupt and sketchy.
Here’s a video from the NYT, reconstructing Reinoehl’s killing.
Not sure if paywalled.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:34 pm@136
Senile drool; leaky Depends.
Glorious.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:34 pmAfter playing the “I got hacked” card, Scully now plays the “attacks on my family” card:
“For several weeks, I was subjected to relentless criticism on social media and in conservative news outlets regarding my role as moderator for the second presidential debate, including attacks aimed directly at my family,” Scully wrote in a statement to CNN. “This culminated on Thursday, October 8th when I heard President Trump go on national television twice and falsely attack me by name. Out of frustration, I sent a brief tweet addressed to Anthony Scaramucci. The next morning when I saw that this tweet had created a controversy, I falsely claimed that my Twitter account had been hacked.”
Trump didn’t “falsely attack” you, Steve. He read you like a book.
beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:35 pmDave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:19 pm
The imagery in the article is very well done.
It paints a picture. I’d rather he was arrested without any gunfire. Do you think there’s anyway that could have happened?
frosty (f27e97) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:37 pmI know you have your reasons. Obviously I disagree that those reasons could justify Trump. But at least this makes sense. Trump’s conservative supporters are badly miscalculating. Immigration is a third rail now. The deficit is comically higher than it was with Bush or Clinton.
I think the death should temper your enthusiasm. Deaths overall in our country are up 20%. No argument about COVID hoaxes can protect Trump from his record of killing Americans with incompetence and corruption, letting his moron kids run the response to a crisis.
And maybe I’m naive, but the GOP was already standing in the way of meaningful conservative reform. What if Trump goes too far in his destruction, clearing the path for a better party’s future?
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:38 pmHe’s had time to think. Instead of lying he’s telling the truth. Trump should stop attacking families, releasing nude pics of his opponent’s son, accusing an opponent’s dad of murder, calling wives ugly. Trump, in short, needs to stop being a baby.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:40 pmwhembley, there’s way less than meets the eye with Zlochevsky. There was no investigation. It was a court ruling to seize property, renewed at the end of the year because of a change in the law.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:40 pmThat’s much very bold as far as predictions go. Trump wins or Biden wins. Gotcha.
I agree that one of those two outcomes will occur.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:40 pmlisa page was trying to extradite him for some bribes he was doing in india, I guess like igor danchenko, they would turned him into a subsource, even though he was a suspected russian spy,
bolivar de gris (7404b5) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:44 pmwrong figure of worship,
https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/10/god-help-us-if-trump-wins-palestinian-prime-minister-warns-eu-lawmakers/
bolivar de gris (7404b5) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:45 pmHe’s had time to think. Instead of lying he’s telling the truth.
Without the FBI investigation, he’d still be lying.
beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:46 pmHe joy reided himself.
Bolivar di griz (7404b5) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:48 pmTrump supporters very concerned about lying again!
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:51 pmAgreed
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:57 pmAndy Ngô
@MrAndyNgo
·
@cspan announces it is temporarily suspending political editor @SteveScully after he confessed that he had lied about his Twitter being hacked into in an exchange with Anthony Scaramucci.
Scully was set to moderate the 2nd presidential debate.
__ _
Brian Stelter
@brianstelter
A true WTF, what-was-he-thinking moment… causing real damage to the national news media’s reputation
__ _
Omri Ceren
@omriceren
·
If that’s your concern, let me put your mind at ease: all things considered, not even top 3 most damaging things this week. I’m not even sure top 3 in the last 48 hours.
_
Meanwhile…….
Thomas Rid
@RidT
·
Relax. Twitter and Facebook are not the internet, and they’re not the government. These are private companies. A little bit like a supermarket asking you to wear a mask. You can just stay out or leave if you don’t like it.
__ _
Joe Gabriel Simonson
@SaysSimonson
This argument remains bizarre because the question is whether these companies are
A. Monopolies abusing their power, which opens them to regulators.
B. Whether their conduct constituted an in-kind contribution to Biden.
C. Whether they’re entitled to special sec. 230 protections
_
Kinda sorta
harkin (7fb4c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:58 pm_
It’s also weird to imagine the tweet is legitimate.
No high-profile professional journalist would ask a random hack like Scaramucci (of all people) whether he should respond to Trump’s rantings, much less do it publicly on Twitter less than a week before the debate he was supposed to moderate.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/10/2020 @ 11:08 am
In one of the previous incidents when he claimed to hacked, a series of ads for some weight-loss product were posted in his name. That doesn’t sound to me like someone trying to hide behind a false hacking claim.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/10/2020 @ 11:21 am
So you think he secretly posted ads for some weight-loss scam himself, and covered it up by falsely claiming he was hacked?
beer ‘n pretzels (042d67) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:59 pmOtherwise, why would poor password security disqualify him from moderating a debate?
Dave (1bb933) — 10/10/2020 @ 11:40 am
Yes, and your point?
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 2:01 pmYou deny it is baffling why he asked Scaramucci, of all people, for advice, and why he did so publicly?
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 2:02 pmDave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 2:02 pm
You’re moving the goalposts. If beer ‘n pretzels’ quote is correct
isn’t you saying it’s baffling. It’s you arguing that it didn’t happen.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/15/2020 @ 2:11 pmI don’t watch television, so I had never even heard of the guy before Trump and his hyenas started attacking him.
It sounds like he was not used to being a lightning rod for partisan attacks, and not prepared to deal with it suddenly.
That doesn’t excuse lying and pushing our poor, beleaguered country even further into the abyss, though.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 2:12 pmIt certainly is.
No, it’s me arguing that it’s weird to imagine the tweet is legitimate, for the reasons I gave.
I claimed no factual knowledge of what happened. I said it made no sense if the tweet was his.
And I was right.
Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 2:15 pmThis argument remains bizarre because the question is whether these companies are
A. Monopolies abusing their power, which opens them to regulators.
They’re not
B. Whether their conduct constituted an in-kind contribution to Biden.
It isn’t
C. Whether they’re entitled to special sec. 230 protections
They are
Easy questions.
Davethulhu (1ebef9) — 10/15/2020 @ 2:24 pmJoe Lockhart
@joelockhart
FACT — if Steve Scully says he didn’t send it you can take it to the bank. Period. Anyone who questions him or makes accusations is a damn liar.
__ _
Lisa Bridges
@lizaB1909
Seems like something Trump’s Russian pals might have done to give him another excuse not to participate in the debate.
__ _
Shaner
@shaner 5000
The Russians made Scully lie!
harkin (7fb4c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 2:24 pm_
@145. Dustin, it’s a win/win– always have said that.
Welcome to 1964. 🙂
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 2:49 pmOne would think years of crack usage could destroy your short term memory.
mg (8cbc69) — 10/15/2020 @ 2:50 pmHe probably forgot about it on the way to the massage parlor -10 minutes later.
Obviously I disagree that those reasons could justify Trump.
Why did JFK back Nixon in his Congressional run back in the day; plenty of reasons not to ally w/Stalin, too. Except, you know– Hitler.
The enemy of my eneny is my friend.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 2:52 pm@162. That Post pix of him passed out w/a crackpipe dangling from his lips is a keeper for the family album. 😉
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 2:54 pmOff-topic, but…
Here’s what Giant of the Senate Sasse said in a telephone townhall that somebody (probably the questioner) recorded, telling the unvarnished truth about the present situation.
Here’s his take on Trump’s handling CV19:
The full YouTube audio is here, and there’s a lot more harsh criticism. However, in public, he’s a loyal Trump fanboy, with maybe an occasional gripe here and there. Maybe he didn’t want the rest of his constituents to “panic”.
Paul Montagu (77c694) — 10/15/2020 @ 2:59 pmDavethulhu (1ebef9) — 10/15/2020 @ 2:24 pm
Yep
Yep
Nope
Yep. Easy questions.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/15/2020 @ 3:01 pm@129. Thank Reagan and his his rabid deregulating righties for shelving the Fairness Doctrine. Hence competing town halls on two different networks tonite. Aka: Reaganomics.
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 3:11 pmOo, Oo, are we going to talk about trust busting now!?! Oh. Just facebook and twitter? That have no tangible resources? And are not required by anyone? And don’t cost anything to use? And have alternatives? Oh. OK. Well. Parler away. I guess.
Nic (896fdf) — 10/15/2020 @ 3:15 pm@168. …And don’t cost anything to use?
Free? Tell me where to get free computers, free smartphones, free internet access, etc. 😉
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 3:23 pm“Yep. Easy questions.”
Monopoly in what?
Definition of an in-kind contribution
Why are they not covered under sec 230?
Davethulhu (1ebef9) — 10/15/2020 @ 3:24 pmNic (896fdf) — 10/15/2020 @ 3:15 pm
Not a blocker to anti-trust regulation.
Assuming you mean individual consumers this isn’t a blocker either.
Not a blocker.
Simply having an or some alternatives also isn’t a protection from anti-trust regulation either.
There’s no need to get wrapped up about trust-busting yet though. Let’s see where the 230 stuff goes.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/15/2020 @ 3:31 pmMy guess is that Reinold was a federal “undercover informant” who went too far and he needed to be silenced.
nk (1d9030) — 10/15/2020 @ 3:33 pm@170 Try the library. I hear it’s nice. Quiet too.
@172 It’s mickeymouse. (actually it’s not. Mickey Mouse is far far more powerful than facebook, but it is smallball for antitrust stuff.)
Nic (896fdf) — 10/15/2020 @ 3:38 pmDavethulhu (1ebef9) — 10/15/2020 @ 3:24 pm
Being covered under 230 is a policy decision. What policy is served by it? I’m ok with private companies doing their thing but I don’t see any value in the 230 protections.
frosty (f27e97) — 10/15/2020 @ 3:53 pm@174. Last time we checked, libraries aren’t “free;” tax $ finance ’em. 😉
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 4:05 pm@176 Your personal contribution to a local library computer is miniscule and if all you use is the library system and average the cost per website you visit you’d have to have an electron microscope to see it. It’s nothing. You might as well say losing your discarded skin cells cost money/cell.
Nic (896fdf) — 10/15/2020 @ 4:17 pm@177. Shorter: it’s not ‘free.’
DCSCA (797bc0) — 10/15/2020 @ 4:22 pm@178 Nope, it’s free. Your cost would count so far less than a penny that you would have to count it in molecules of copper. You can’t pay something so far less than a penny, so you pay nothing at all. It’s free.
Nic (896fdf) — 10/15/2020 @ 4:28 pmByron York
@ByronYork
NBC actors, producers protest network’s decision to air Trump town hall tonight at same time as Biden’s on ABC. They want you to know that, ‘This is not a partisan issue. This is about the political health of our democracy.’ OK.
__ _
Ron Wikso
@ronwikso
·
So none of them have DVRs? Or YouTube? Or Google? Or any form of social media where there will almost certainly be links to where they can watch both shows afterwards?
What century are they living in?
__ _
Cathy
@Cathyblue
·
Hulu let’s me record anything in the cloud. Maybe somebody should share all this new, exciting technology with employees of NBC. Or send them a VHS player, if 21st Century technology escapes them.
__ _
Mark
harkin (7fb4c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 4:53 pm@TwinRoots28
·
So wait, they’re *okay* with us deciding who becomes President, but we can’t decide for ourselves which channel to watch?
__
White House was warned Giuliani was target of Russian intelligence operation to feed misinformation to Trump
U.S. intelligence agencies warned the White House last year that President Trump’s personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani was the target of an influence operation by Russian intelligence, according to four former officials familiar with the matter.
The warnings were based on multiple sources, including intercepted communications, that showed Giuliani was interacting with people tied to Russian intelligence during a December 2019 trip to Ukraine, where he was gathering information that he thought would expose corrupt acts by former vice president Joe Biden and his son Hunter.
Rip Murdock (d2a2a8) — 10/15/2020 @ 5:07 pm…….
The warnings to the White House, which have not been previously reported, led national security adviser Robert O’Brien to caution Trump in a private conversation that any information Giuliani brought back from Ukraine should be considered contaminated by Russia, one of the former officials said.
…….
…….The information that Giuliani sought in Ukraine is similar to what is contained in emails and other correspondence published this week by the New York Post, which the paper said came from the laptop of Hunter Biden and were provided by Giuliani and Stephen K. Bannon, Trump’s former top political adviser at the White House.
……
Hook, Line, and Sinker! Don’t cry for Rudy!
“A campaign spokesman for Arizona Democratic Senate candidate Mark Kelly apologized Thursday for a tweet he wrote just before joining the campaign that called police “worthless f–ing pigs.”
T.J. L’Heureux, Mr. Kelly’s deputy press secretary, called police “worthless f–ing pigs” in response to a video that showed Chicago police clashing with protesters in August. He joined Mr. Kelly’s campaign one week later.
The Washington Free Beacon first reported the tweet Thursday morning, prompting Mr. L’Heureux to delete the tweet and lock his account.“
https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/oct/15/mark-kelly-campaign-spokesman-apologizes-for-calli/
harkin (7fb4c9) — 10/15/2020 @ 5:09 pm_
“Being covered under 230 is a policy decision.”
No it’s not. It’s a law that applies to essentially all internet forums.
Davethulhu (1ebef9) — 10/15/2020 @ 5:20 pm> The Trump Administration has had foreign policy successes and failures like any other, but I don’t think they have done worse than the last admininstration.
I suppose success is defined by goals, so perhaps, if the intent was to:
– Gift Russia a massive influence boost in the middle east;
– Waste enormous resources not really accomplishing much on stupid sanctions games with China;
– Throw away goodwill and soft power with European allies;
– Make our dedication to democracy abroad a lie (hope nobody in Hong Kong was foolish enough to believe us).
…hey, as Baby Bush said, “Mission Accomplished.”
john (cd2753) — 10/15/2020 @ 5:37 pm“Being covered under 230 is a policy decision.”
No it’s not. It’s a law that applies to essentially all internet forums.
All laws passed by Congress are policy decisions. Congress can change its mind and alter or repeal that law.
Bored Lawyer (7b72ec) — 10/15/2020 @ 8:57 pmMy first thought was that someone paid two strippers to steal phone computer credit cards… problem with that is American strippers would talk, but some Russian girls? Ship them home right after.
steveg (43b7a5) — 10/15/2020 @ 11:06 pmNot likely, but fun to think about.
I think Putin prefers Kamala in this race Trump moving troops to Poland and badgering Germany to drop Russian natural gas, building NATO up.
Trump is a pain in the ass
So, I have a good faith question to those who don’t think the Biden emails has any legs.
Here’s one of the email in question:
From: Robert Biden
To: Gongwen Done
My Understanding is that the original agreement with the Director was for consulting fees based on introductions alone a rate of $10M per year for a three year guarantee total of $30M. The chairman changed that deal after we me in MIAMI TO A MUCH MORE LASTING AND LUCRATIVE ARRANGEMENT to create a holding company 50% percent owned by ME and 50% owned by him. Consulting fees is one piece of our income stream but the reason this proposal by the chairman was so much more interesting to my and my family is that
whembly (2900b2) — 10/16/2020 @ 7:16 am@187 gots dang it I submitted it too soon! LET’S TRY THIS AGAIN.
One moment please….
whembly (2900b2) — 10/16/2020 @ 7:18 amSo, I have a good faith question to those who don’t think the Biden emails has any legs.
Here’s one of the email in question:
Now, here’s my first question: Does this even concern you? You have a Chinese Communist Political actor in a lucrative relationship with the Bidens.
Second question: Here’s your chance to legit ‘whatabout’… can you provide a similar situation, with hard facts, that the Trump family is making bank “based on introductions alone” as Robert Biden stated. (ie, pay-to-play schemes)
whembly (2900b2) — 10/16/2020 @ 7:26 amRobert Biden looks corrupt as all get out.
Time123 (b4d075) — 10/16/2020 @ 7:56 amI expect he used his proximity to power to his own personal benefit.
I haven’t seen evidence where Joe did anything corrupt as part of this.
@190 Add to the fact that Hunter was on the board of Burisma. Hunter knew squat about energy but was put there in 2014—earning $50k/month. He was there to sell access, allegedly, to top Obama officials. Which by all account Burisma got that…while Joe Biden being the point-person for all things Ukraine as VP.
It’s a pattern that’s awfully hard to ignore.
It’s the same vein of what the Clinton’s did with respect to the Clinton Foundation.
I noticed you didn’t answer my second question. Why not?
whembly (2900b2) — 10/16/2020 @ 8:21 amOh, Trump’s fans are mad about another relative of Trump’s opponent? Knock me over with a feather.
They look like crooks, whembly. No need for whatabouts. You already anticipated them because the Trump record is so bad on this.
And really, this whole thing misses the point. Trump’s main argument, with people already voting, is ‘look at the kid of my opponent’. That’s what he’s got. He doesn’t have any accomplishments. Trump failed on the budget promise, the wall promise, the obamacare promise, and even his oath to protect his country. Trump has had a few crises he could run on, if he hadn’t handled them poorly.
So for 2-3 weeks I guess we’ll hear about Biden’s family, how rotten, probably ugly they are, as Rudy distributes the nude pictures of these people he managed to acquire. That’s the argument for voting for Trump. Go right ahead if that wins you over.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/16/2020 @ 8:22 amIf you read the comments on this blog far enough back, some of y’all were actually convinced Ted Cruz’s dad murdered JFK. Same kind of tabloid sourcing, same stupid, transparent motive, and some of y’all bought it. And that was Trump’s argument for being our president. That his opponent’s family look bad in a tabloid.
Trump is retweeting theories that Obama murdered the Navy SEALs to cover up Osama Bin Laden being alive.
Why do you guys give these kinds of arguments the time of day? This is Trump’s last chance to make the case for himself. When the squishes stare at their ballot, they will see Trump and have no reason to vote for him, because he hasn’t even tried to give them one.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/16/2020 @ 8:28 am@192 The point I’m trying to make with you guys is that the things you complain about Trump…Biden/Kamala has just as bad or worst characteristics.
If you strip away WHO they are and focus on the agendas that they would advance… then, your choice becomes simplified.
Do you want to return to the Obama era way of doing things, with liberal agendas and a more progressive judiciary? Then, be a Democrat and vote for the Biden/Harris ticket.
If you don’t want to see that, as I definitely don’t, then the only other alternative is to vote for the Trump/Pence ticket and for the GOP.
That’s not to say that voting for either tickets endorses the vices of the candidates.
We don’t “worship” our leaders.
We’re faced with options for someone to become a caretaker at the head of the executive branch, and as such what policies they would advance.
I know you tried Dustin, but none of your arguments is persuasive that Joe Biden would be a better President than Trump. However, since your animus towards Trump is off the chart, you seem to be willing to *pay* any price, so long at Trump is defeated. That’s fine buddy…just is it’s fine that I think differently than you.
😉
BTW, how’s the little tyke doing? How’s your wife doing? Hope you’re getting enough sleep! 😀
whembly (2900b2) — 10/16/2020 @ 8:41 amOK, I know you believe that and it’s a legitimate point to make six months ago. But these slimy attacks on the family of his opponents are the only reliable thing about Trump.
What’s the argument to vote for Trump? He’s a billion dollars in debt according to recent reports. He’s screwing everything up. Why vote for him? You said a lot of words but is there a reason in there why Trump did a great job?
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/16/2020 @ 8:43 amVote for Trump because ‘Maybe Biden will be bad like Trump was’. Maybe all that stuff with Ivanka and China, Jared and ventilators, maybe Biden will be bad like Trump in that particular area!
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/16/2020 @ 8:45 am135. Dave (1bb933) — 10/15/2020 @ 1:19 pm
This kind of thing happens when somebody is portrayed as extreme;y dangerous.I highly doubt there was any back channel from high up to the policemen who shot and killed him.
For the kind of thing that top officials may indeed be directly responsible for see today’s New York Times editorial against Rod Rosenstein (because he followed orders on immigration.) It’s actually asigned Op-ed piece by Jennifer Senior but appears in the place where an editorial would.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/15/opinion/rod-rosenstein-family-separation.html
Of course all that that goes to prove is that immigration laws are inhumane – not distortions of them but the laws themselves, although Trump and Sessions may have gone beyond what the law requires. It didn’t require them to neglect to keep records so they could reunite children later with families. Of course other laws also get distorted by prosecutors.
You would think Rod Rosenstein was running for Congress.
By the way, notice one thing: This is all coming from the independent (albeit partial) press.
There’s not a word from the official Democratic Party about immigration policy.
Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7) — 10/16/2020 @ 9:13 amI’m convinced, whembly. Hunter Biden sold out his dad’s name to make a buck, but he did say he would divest from the foreign entities he was doing business with if his dad is elected.
Paul Montagu (fbcd32) — 10/16/2020 @ 9:32 amThere is no evidence that Joe Biden was engaged in any Hunter’s business dealings, or had more than passing knowledge.
There is no evidence of a meeting between VP Biden and this Ukrainian character.
There is no evidence of any criminality by Hunter or his dad.
There is no evidence that Shokin was investigating anything related to Zlochevsky/Burisma/Hunter at the time he was sacked.
There is evidence that Hunter is a black sheep in the Biden clan, made more pronounced because his dead brother was the rising star who would follow in Joe’s footsteps. We should actually pray for Hunter, that he’ll eventually turn life around, not expose his personal life like the NY Post has been doing.
Meantime, there remain a ton of questions about the laptops that ended up in a blind guy’s computer repair storefront.
Here’s another reason to write in Larry Hogan for president.
That’s how anti-Trump Republicans should do it. Looks like he’ll be a candidate in 2024, when he’ll be 68.
Paul Montagu (fbcd32) — 10/16/2020 @ 9:38 amTime123 (b4d075) — 10/16/2020 @ 7:56 am
There is supposed to be some email where Robert Hunter Biden writes to his children (actually just his daughter Naomi) that he won’t ask for half of their salary like Pop does.
https://www.oann.com/rudy-giuliani-cites-reportedly-leaked-text-revealing-hunter-bidens-alleged-corruption
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZasrHQeKiY&feature=youtu.be (hat 5 minutes into the video)
Rudy Giuliani truly believes that. He says he is not making this up.
I am not clear that this comes from the laptop.
But, we can guess, it was supplied by Vladimir Putin’s agents.
It can’t be right. It’s highly unlikely that Hunter Biden gave any money to his father.. He needed money. He wasn’t supporting his father for 30 years. Giuliani says that Hunter paid for his sister’s college education ???
Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7) — 10/16/2020 @ 9:39 amMy memory could be off, but wasn’t the Ukraine cleaning house trying to get into the europeon union at the time Joe hiden threatened them? Wouldn’t that be some sort of World crime with a sentence of life in a basement.
mg (8cbc69) — 10/16/2020 @ 9:43 amhttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/15/us/politics/giuliani-russian-disinformation.html (last year)
That excerpt from the talk Joe Biden gave to the Council on Foreign Relations on Jan 23, 2018?? Or something separate?
Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7) — 10/16/2020 @ 9:47 amBiden’s sinister like a fairy tale villain, stealing from his kids. OK.
No, he does not believe it.
One thing that really troubles me is how good most of the Trump fans I know in person are. They are good people, taken advantage of. A lot of the ones I know also liked Jerry Falwell Jr, give to the NRA, and they only watch media that keeps the money flowing. I don’t know any of the white supremacist ones personally, though I’ve definitely interacted with them (and they are not good, of course).
Trump, Rudy, and Putin, Qanon, wikileaks, they all know how to inspire anger from good people. That guy who was willing to fight a pizza parlor to save the children being enslaved? Isn’t that a noble heart on some level? Willing to die, ruin his life, to protect children? Trump voter through and through.
This idea that Biden’s rubbing his hands together and demanding his kids money is intended to anger people who love their own kids. I bet Russia has some kind of focus group system to perfect disinfo. Good liars believe it on some level, but they have to know they are lying or they say the wrong stuff. At one point Rudy even warned Trump he had dirt (probably this scheme’s planning is what he was referring to). They are all scared of each other.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/16/2020 @ 9:53 amYesterday the Walll Street Journal had two editorials about censorship.
One was about the German Marshall Fund claiming that there more decptive outlets on Facebook than in 2016 and including in their list Fox News. The other one was about Amazon refusing to publish a
documentary by Shelby Steele entitled “What Killed Michael Brown?”
Let’s say it has some inaccuracies, (because it shows opinions) how many inaccuracies in material that claims Michael Brown was an innocent victim go unchallenged?
Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7) — 10/16/2020 @ 9:59 am@195
These are gutter politics.
Where were you when “slimy attacks” were leveled at the Trumps?
Gutter politics has been around for as long as I can remember (since back to the Reagan era), and historically.
Sure, I wish we could have a “clean” debate of ideas between parties, but it’s hubris to ignore the unsavory aspects of our politics.
Plenty…I’ll get to that in a sec.
Just over $400 million actually, it’s all in his public disclosures. Newsflash, he can sell his NY Trump tower property to cover that debt.
Not everything… hyperbole much?
I’m not saying Trump did a “great job”.
I’m saying…look at the alternative. (I’m going crib some of the ideas from that NR article)
Do you want Mike Pompeo running our foreign policy? …or the likes of Susan Rice?
Should we continue rebuilding our armed forces, particulary to respond to the ascendend Chinese expansions? Or, revert to the Obama/Biden program of hollowing out the armed forces and appeasing our adversary?
Should we continue with that economic and financial stewardship of Larry Kudlow, or the confiscatory authoritarian of Bernie Sanders and the “Squad”??
Should we continue with our current trajectory of being self-statainable energy policies, which leads the world in reduce our carbon footprint (mostly due to increases in natural gas)…or, do we have the likes of John Kerry (one of Biden’s best friend) to reinstitute the Paris Climate Accord and have us in track to implement the destructive Green New Deal policies of the radical extremist of the Democratic party?
Should we empower the likes of Eliz Warren, a Biden ally, to reimage capitalism and markets under the government’s control and facilitate Democrat’s grievance politics?
I know you despise AG Bill Barr… but, would you be okay with AG Keith Ellison?
Is there any doubt that Biden may not last the full 4 years? Are you okay with President Harris? A senator ranked as THE MOST LIBERAL of all the Senators????
Have I scared you enough?
Or better yet, here are things that Trump *did* do right.
-pushed/got tax cut
-pushed/got more originalist/conservative judges (to me, this is #1 as I’m looking at the long game)
-moved embassy to Jerusalem
-got NATO to commit to their obligations
-got peace momentum going in mid-East
-obliterated ISIS
-while he couldn’t get full repeal/replace the ACA, I’m glad we got the mandate repealed.
-winding the foreign wars in Afganistan/Iraq
-finally got Mexico to address immigration/caravans
-His signature WALL!
-and something near and dear to me, he signed EO for federal agencies to go after animal abuse and we’ve seen measurable upticks of charges/prosecution in this area.
-I’m sure I’ve forgotten some, but you get the idea… Trump has done some objectively good things.
Yes, Trump’s biggest issue is himself, who perpetually steps on his own wang. But, again…what’s the alternative?
whembly (2900b2) — 10/16/2020 @ 10:01 amHonestly I don’t know of many of them. Trump’s conduct is so reprehensible that I don’t think they are necessary. People hate him so I’m sure people have engaged in them. Kathy Griffin with the severed head stuff just isn’t productive when Trump actually did collude with freaking Russia. Attacking him with a theory about a weirdo who found his laptop isn’t necessary when he actually did brag about sexually assaulting women.
Trump’s case for re-election has to be how good a job he did. The efforts to make the election about the family of Trump’s opponents have worked up until now, because he never had a record, just the most glorious (and unmatchable) promises.
The problem is that when I looked at Trump’s name on my ballot, all I could think of were negative things. ‘The alternative will not be this bad’ was my prevailing thought. I disliked that vote because Biden really isn’t much of an option. You do have a point. But when I add in some of the bright lines Trump’s crossed, some of this stuff is many miles beyond what I find acceptable, is ruining our country and our ability to keep it safe.
It is very tough to be a republican president. Bush showed how tough (and one of the worst ankle biters was Trump, who says Bush was the worst president in history). But I’m not grading on a curve. I voted for Bush because he had a record I was OK with. Trump can’t win without making the case for himself. This ‘Heidi Cruz is so ugly lol’ crap took him very far, but now it’s a re-election.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/16/2020 @ 10:09 amSF:
Dustin:
We know that Giuliani does believe this stuff because aconversation he had was unintentonally dialed a year ago to an NBC reporter and recorded as voicemail:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/rudy-giuliani-butt-dials-nbc-reporter-heard-discussing-need-cash-n1071901
Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7) — 10/16/2020 @ 10:12 amYesterday at the Town Hall Donald Trump was much better, but he also was defending indefensible positions.
Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7) — 10/16/2020 @ 10:14 amHe faked that or was conning someone. I am good at this. That man knows he is lying to us.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/16/2020 @ 10:26 am@206
He did not actually do that, and no, the famed Trump Tower meeting isn’t something you’d hang your hat on proving that there were collusion (or conspiracy).
He did not. He was saying that women LET HIM to it…as in, it was consensual.
We’re at an impasse Dustin, as I don’t think we can continue to debate in good faith when you can’t even get your facts right.
We’ll just note that you won’t be voting for Trump and that I will be voting for Trump.
The. End.
whembly (2900b2) — 10/16/2020 @ 10:28 amHe did it and on national TV, with meetings with his son and the bad guys, and frankly he’s never stopped. It’s absurd to me that people seriously argue the sky isn’t blue.
It is not consensual to grab a woman that way because when you’re a star they won’t stop you. That is sexual assault. This isn’t even remotely defensible.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/16/2020 @ 10:31 amOh we still have till January, but we’re getting there. I anticipate the worst of Trump is yet to come.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/16/2020 @ 10:31 amOAN, Sammy? Really? The outfit that hired a literal Russian propagandist to “report” for them?
Paul Montagu (b2dbd3) — 10/16/2020 @ 11:11 amI watched the whole Giuliani YouTube. There’s one text message (from the laptop) and no evidence of corruption or criminality, just lots of allegations.
Nope, he’s over $1 billion in debt, $447 million of which is to unknown creditors and not listed on his federal financial disclosure form.
Paul Montagu (fbcd32) — 10/16/2020 @ 11:22 amBottom line, he still has a net worth of $2.5 billion, and his income properties should throw off enough cash flow to cover the payments.
I listened to it. Seemed pretty clear he meant that they were powerless because of his fame. Way rapey thing to say.
When you’re a star they’ll let you do it.
When they work for you they’ll let you do it.
When it’s in a dark alley they’ll let you do it.
When you’ve got a gun they’ll let you do it.
None of that sounds consensual.
Time123 (66d88c) — 10/16/2020 @ 11:35 am-pushed/got tax cut No win, he blew up the budget deficit to do it.
Time123 (66d88c) — 10/16/2020 @ 11:40 am-pushed/got more originalist/conservative judges (to me, this is #1 as I’m looking at the long game) good
-moved embassy to Jerusalem don’t care
-got NATO to commit to their obligations not true
-got peace momentum going in mid-East this is good
-obliterated ISIS Good, not all Trump. We have more troops there now than in 2016
-while he couldn’t get full repeal/replace the ACA, I’m glad we got the mandate repealed. Trump failed.
-winding the foreign wars in Afganistan/Iraq Deployment levels are up.
-finally got Mexico to address immigration/caravans This is a win, but god was it an ugly one.
-His signature WALL! +4 miles is a fail.
-and something near and dear to me, he signed EO for federal agencies to go after animal abuse and we’ve seen measurable upticks of charges/prosecution in this area. Animal abuse isn’t a federal crime. fail
-I’m sure I’ve forgotten some, but you get the idea… Trump has done some objectively good things. Yes, but far fewer then you listed.
That’s the good.
Otherwise Trump failed head to toe. In fact, the damage he did to the country’s reputation and discourse is severe.
Voters should think about those judges when they vote, because there’s a real difference where Biden will be much worse. But it still is an easy call. Trump’s performance does not match his promises, we are not better off than we were, and things are rapidly destabilizing this year.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/16/2020 @ 11:48 amBut it’s like my neighbor who owns a sweet brand new truck he can barely afford (and great point about his massive, practically inconceivable debt). Trump’s resorts and golf courses can’t be thriving this year, even if on paper he is a rich man, he is actually a fake. He’s been good at dodging the bill collector, I’m sure even better when he’s the leader of the free world.
Many of his supporters wanted good things. Sane immigration. A balanced budget. A more civil rights friendly healthcare system. State control of more issues. I admire all those goals and wish Trump had helped them.
To the supporters who wanted a Muslim ban, an Iranian ban, to catch Obama for being secretly from Africa, I think Trump genuinely fought for their world view. And failed.
Dustin (4237e0) — 10/16/2020 @ 11:55 amSection 230 Is The Subject of The Most Effective Legal Propaganda I’ve Ever Seen
Details at the link.
Davethulhu (d0e475) — 10/16/2020 @ 12:13 pm200. 203.
The New York Post has an email from Hunter Biden to his daughter Naomi but he doesn;t say his father was taking his moey – he just says he gave all his money away. (that would most likely be to women. is was in2018(
Naomi had asked for $150 for Lyft because her card was declined. He said he would do it, but once she gets out of college she won;t be able to live like [the daughter] of a billionaire.
His wife had filed for dicorce in December 2016. He had taken up with his dead brother;’s widow.
There;s also along 800 word piece with typos in the form of a email from Robert Biden to Hunter Biden about how he felt after his brother died. He and his father and brother had always gone to Mass together. He on; liked two parts about it.
He also said that in addition to praying to his mother and his dead sister (both killed in 1972) he had now started praying to his brother. I thought Catholics on;y did that to saints or people they thought were saints.
Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7) — 10/16/2020 @ 2:50 pm213. Paul Montagu (b2dbd3) — 10/16/2020 @ 11:11 am
I noticed that. So I looked for a more original link. And it was not that it was true, but that there was some kind of “evidence”I had heard that on the radio. I thought it was doubtful.
I later checked, and the New York Post didn’t have that. They had a different email or text from Hunter to his daughter Naomi is which he didn’t say that, unlike “Pop” or “Pops” (I don’t remember whichword was suposeed to be in it) he was not going to make her give him half her salary. But what the new York Post had was that he had given his money away.
I fonud Giuliani, and that seems to be source.
It would mean Joe Biden was profiting off Hunter if it were true. But if Giuliani had somebody else going through the material, something fraudulant could be passed on to him.
Sammy Finkelman (4eddd7) — 10/17/2020 @ 5:18 pm